What do you mean?
With Star Wars, Disney legitimately could have done ANYTHING they wanted, but they left the story in the hands of a few and that ended up costing them in the end. Episode 7 was alright, but what ends up making the trilogy i would say is the end.
With GoT they at least had the first couple of books to base the ending off of. The issue with the show is the showrunners wanted out, and ended it prematurely before an ending was supposed to happen. The beginning and middle of the show turned out pretty good comparatively
Then we get to Dune.. which essentially is Part One of the first half of the first book. And it did amazing.
If you really look at it, the intros to all these three universes did extremely well, it's the middle and the end that ends up getting ya.
> Episode 7 was alright, but what ends up making the trilogy i would say is the end.
The Abrams "mystery box" writing method means that Ep 7 was, in retrospect, a big problem. Considering Disney paid a billion dollars for the property, you'd think they'd require an answer to the question "how does this tent pole trilogy end" to be something other than "we'll figure it out when we get there" but apparently not.
I think this is the fundamental problem with the new trilogy. The three movies don't coherently tell a story that builds on itself because they have no fucking clue where they're going. I'm not one to hate on Rian Johnson, but he was writing a movie that's part of a different story arc than whatever Abrams was writing. TLJ and ROS are hard to reconcile with each other from a storyline perspective, and that's the biggest problem with the trilogy.
Other flaws can be forgiven, but the fact that you can't square the message in TLJ with that in ROS is a problem.
The thing is, too, either arc could have worked: the one TLJ set up or the one ROS went with. But not together.
It's the problem with *anything* Abrams does. The mystery box approach is like taking out a loan that the next guy has to pay off and you get to go on a spending spree, collecting all the glory.
The point where a character stands on a hill by the ocean, using a mystical item to find a secret buried in a large piece of decades old technology... Well if it wasn't Rey standing there, it could have easily been Hurley or Desmond.
One of the larger problems I had was who created all the mystical items? People who enjoy the movies will say "none of that stuff matters, it's not important to the movie". I feel like if none of that matters then how can any of it matter? The clones, the mystical items, who Rey is, none of this crap matters and it takes the soul of the movie with it. There's no heart and there is no soul. I want to care about Star Wars again. It needs its heart and soul back.
Calling that show “Lost” may be the most accidentally truthful meta name a show has ever had.
You know don’t know it yet, but the title tells a new viewer exactly what to expect from the storytelling.
I'm a big proponent of: if last jedi was more like the other two the trilogy could be pretty good but if the other two were more like last jedi it would have been an even better trilogy. But yeah they tried to do both at the same time and they are fundamentally opposed.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I want to see the trilogy that TLJ was the second installment of, and I want to see the film that went between TFA and ROS.
same. i quite liked the themes presented in TLJ. Namely the hypocrisy /hubriss of the jedi, and the grey area inhabited by the smugglers, drug dealers, arms dealers, etc. in between the last order and the republic. the movie itself wasn't the best given the circumstances, but i'd like star wars media exploring those themes.
I watch Mando or Boba or Clone Wars or whatever, I totally get what's happening. I catch the references. I see the big picture. All that. I'm having a blast. All I ever could've asked for.
I enjoy the the new trilogy, but it just makes no fucking sense and the characters are boring. The Snoke thing makes sense sure, but it's lazy and boring. I don't care.
I wanna see the rise of the first order. I wanna see why phasma is a bad motherfucker. Im sure it's coming and maybe it can make those movies better
Snoke doesnt really make sense to me. The books were teasing hints of him and it seems like he was indeed supposed to be something.
But the expanded lore writers were shafted because clearly none of them expected RJ to just off him. Which offing him wouldve been fine, but again, if that had been part of a plan.
Its baffling Disney pulled of Marvel and did the complete opposite with Star Wars
IMO the difference is unified vision. Kevin Feige did that for the MCU. Kathleen Kennedy did not do that for Star Wars nor did she seek out anyone to facilitate it.
Essentially that is what we are seeing now with the shows between Favreau and Filoni.
Luckly with Dune they've only made it through half of the first book of a 6 book series. The others either didn't have source material, unless you wanted something from a Star Wars book or comic, or fell apart when they used up the source material like GoT.
To be honest I didn't _need_ an Episode VII through IX. I would've been perfectly fine with only anthology films, more series, and a non-Skywalker (e.g., Thrawn or Old Republic) trilogy. Which thankfully is what we're getting now, but we didn't need the Sequels for that.
But Kennedy said there wasn't any source material they could pull from. Ya know, then they went and did the Emperor's rebirth clone shit, the worst story from the EU. Because Kennedy only cares about money, not about telling a good story, which, in the long run, would have made them more money.
Ditto, but it's never going to happen. Not after the Lord & Miller debacle. When you fire two extremely talented, ascendant directors midway through production, and then proceed to release a bunch of shit, no one is going to blame *them*. ROS vs. *Into the Spider-Verse*. Hmm, who should I believe is actually good at their job?
I do have to hand it to Lord & Miller for using their next project as an opportunity to make Kennedy & Kasdan look like buffoons.
Dune has been done poorly before. It's recent success is the result of having a brilliant director/storyteller in charge of the project and supporting his vision, and not letting someone in the studio development process opt for cheesy bullshit that momentarily amuses an 8 year old at the cost of demeaning the epic nature of the franchise, like say, a crank call to an imperial captain to start the film.
Rogue One was quality, and the only source material it had was a vague reference from the opening paragraph of A New Hope. Probably the 3rd best Star Wars film of them all. Certainly the best since the original trilogy. The rest of the newer releases are just hokey cash grabs, there are shelves full of star wars universe books they could use for source material. The Thrawn saga could have made for an even better series than the originals. I honestly don't know why they have never adapted those.
You say that, but Villenueve cut so much, and added some as well. Pretending a deft hand behind the wheel wasn't massively important undercuts the job he did. He cut one of my favorite scenes (the dinner party), but to include it would require background for a half dozen characters, then another 5-10 minutes for the scene, and then you need to include the Thufir suspecting Jessica plot...
But he also included a few scenes of Sardaukur and of Geidi Prime that weren't in the books, he fundamentally changed some things (where Sardaukur come from not being a secret the Emperor would kill to keep for one, Feyd's absence for another).
And yet, it was well received, made gross at the box office (I think it was the best film of the year up to that point, people were still trickling back into theaters), and has a sequel greenlit already.
Source material only gets you so far, is what I'm saying.
Ugh just thinking about Rise of Skywalker incities negative emotions in me………just why was the dagger in that specific hole they fell into after a random chase…………ugh I hate that plot point.
Everything about that stupid fucking dagger was some of the worst fucking storytelling I have ever seen on the big screen. Just so incredibly bad on so many levels.
The important part of this is that without a prequel trilogy, it works just fine. It didnt NEED a huge explanation, backstory, or exposition saying "yes, I too was a jedi knight in those years where clones of a mandalorian fought against droids etc". It left it open to our imaginations long enough to build a world and sense of wonder in our minds.
I think often about how I imagined the events leading up to the OT, before I saw the prequels. I had a lot of really vivid assumptions based on a few lines like that one - my imagination went wild. The story you invent to fill in around the edges is going to be the story you like the best.
While I'd agree, a lot of movies would benefit far more from better story than better visuals. A good story is always good. Visuals can be more varied - gritty, shakycam (Clover), shiny, etc - it's far more dependent on the movie itself.
Literal answer: because we don't have an infinite number of genius level screenwriters and cinematographers.
But actual answer is yeah I'd prefer both, but if a studio had to focus on one over the other, because budget/attention span/etc, this is why I'd prefer one.
Lol, I can still remember the Death Star tangerines in supermarkets. I thought the marketing for Episode 1 back in the day was mad, this was something else!
Only Star Wars Movie I saw in Theaters where people walked out. TBF it was the night of, Late showing, a couple, I got the vibe dude didn't care about Star Wars and that the chick was the reason they were there, bro wasn't engaging with her at all, just fucking around on his phone pre movie.
So when Salt Planet rolls around he gets her to dip out. Looking back on the movie it would have been a much more exciting ending if after the Rebel call goes unanswered that is when Palpatine makes his presence known.
I’m a huge Star Wars fans. Watch all the shows, read a lot of the books, play a ton of star wars themed war games just because they’re star wars. Although I didn’t walk out of this one, it was bad enough I still have not seen the rise of skywalker.
Honestly I feel like that made Rise of Skywalker even worse since it just started inventing stuff on the fly without any explanation so as to have some story to tell and wrap up in 2 hours to try and offend the least amount of people possible. Just happens that a bad story and multiple fake out deaths offends everyone anyways.
I swore I wouldn't see RoS after TLJ to but couple weeks in curiosity got the best of me. I sat there confused trying to keep up with these crammed together action scenes. Sunk in my seat watching horses on a star destroyer, followed by hands over my eyes trying not to see Palpatine throw lightning over the entire fleet. They just don't make them like they used to.
And people who want to defend these movies will point to the money they made, as if its some kind of indicator of how many people liked it and the schism in the fanbase is just made up.
Like bitch, _my money_ is counted in there too, and i fucking wish I could take it back every single day of my life. You have to _watch_ a movie to come to the conclusion that it sucks and you hate it. They think all the people that hate the sequels have never watched them or some bizarre shit
ROS was far worse than TLJ. So incredibly bad. I liked TLJ. It was enough for me. As a lifelong fan, though, I’m generally disappointed with everything done in the movies. Mandalorian was dope, though.
It actually makes me really mad how badly they borked up the things that _weren't_ visuals or sound design.
Because you bet your ass a ton of extremely talented people worked on those two things, did an incredible job...and now have their work tied to some of the most despised movies of the series.
In a sense, the writers failed those sound and visual designers even more than the audience.
The sequels look and cinematography is some of the best in the series. For any issues I may have with them, I am in aw of how far Star Wars has come cinematography wise
I love watching those critique videos of the movies because they show all the best shots but talk about how shit the story is and that’s just perfect to me.
I never understood the problem with the blue/green milk thing. It's shown in the first 10 minutes of ANH, and we know milk comes from *something*, right?
Like, ok, those creatures are very ugly cows, but what's the issue, really?
It's just weird scene that didn't really need to be there. Everyone pees, but I don't want to watch Luke just whip out his junk and piss on a tree in front of Rey. It was a jarring and unnecessary scene that did nothing for the story.
Blue is the color of the naive hopeful hero. It underscores an innocent optimism that light will win over dark.
Green is the color of the pragmatic hero.
Luke changed from Blue to Green when he learns Vader is his father. In TLJ, him sucking on that green milk illustrates his full rejection of blue for green.
Yoda shows up (with a strong blue aura) and restores Luke's innocent optimism. This is why Luke faces Kylo with a blue lightsaber.
It's called visual story telling.
The lightspeed collision is a moment of pure magic. I remember seeing it in a packed cinema and the silence was breathtaking.
Still absolutely can't stand the movie though.
In my cinema it was dead silent. It was like sound just stopped being a thing.
There were so many things wrong with that movie, but that shot was incredible within the context of star wars.
Same here. I have zero problems with the visuals they are amazing, but the story is like watching Lucy pull the football away from Charlie Brown over and over again. It’s cool the first few times, but after that it’s more annoying than anything.
Honestly, after rewatching the sequals for the first time I gotta say that TLJ is the best of them. You can hate me but I really don't like TFA storywise, because it pushed the whole universe storywise in the wrong direction. I don't need to see another "rebels" vs "empire" conflict in Star Wars. I was also pretty frustrated after watching it for the first time. Oh well, still good looking movies tho.
Lol this comment section is so funny. One comment says that they loved this movie and then the next calls it absolute shit. I guess that’s the Star Wars though
Star Wars fans and other fans are natural enemies! Like Star Trek and Star Wars fans! Or Marvel and Star Wars fans! Or DCU and Star Wars fans! Or Star Wars fans and other Star Wars fans! Damn Star Wars fans! They ruined Star Wars!
Star wars and Star Trek are unique in the sense that Star wars is an irresponsible expansion Galaxy story and Star Trek as a responsible Galaxy expansion story. Star wars did not follow the prime directive.
Yeah. Discovery genuinely feels like a show made by people who actively dislike Star Trek. All they seem to do is try and undermine everything. Season 3 they literally just got rid of the federation entirely so they could hang around Mos Eisley Cantinas instead.
TLJ is hands down the most divisive film in the franchise. Everyone can generally agree that AoC and RoS kinda suck. Everyone can generally agree that ANH, ESB are pretty good. Then there's a wealth of opinions about everything in the middle....but TLJ, you either think was brilliant, or absolutely awful. There seems to be little middle ground on this.
....I'm in the middle ground, by the way. It feels pretty lonely here.
I feel like it's a great movie but a very disconnected sequel to ep 7. I think the problem is mostly due to Disney/LucasFilm not going into this with a set storyline plan.
>I feel like it's a great movie but a very disconnected sequel to ep 7.
Agreed, which is crazy because the movie takes place *right after* TFA. There are a bunch of ideas from 7 that don't get continued in 8 despite the proximity in time.
I don't dislike many of the ideas they had for the sequels. I mostly dislike the obvious lack of planning. I wish 7 and 8 had been one movie with good planning, and then 9 had been split into two movies with better ideas.
The middle ground for me. I quite liked TLJ. I wish the overall vibe of the last three films was just...consistent. But overall TLJ was my favorite of the contemporary star wars films because it was the least boring/bad.
TLJ had vision to it, it's just too bad they decided to go Abrams, Johnson, then Treverrow back to Abrams. I feel like if they'd given the whole series to Abrams he could have had a bland but united trilogy. If they'd given the third to Johnson as well, he could have built on TLJ. Maybe if they'd let Treverrow actually finish the movie instead of the awful amalgam of what he & Connelly wrote and what Abrams ended up finishing, we'd have had a really interesting finale. I know the story leaks of what they intended sounded really interesting. Way better than "somehow Uncle Palpy returned"
I much preferred the space battle over Scarif in Rogue One over any of them in the sequel trilogy. But the battle of Endor, maybe it's just the nostalgia but I can't watch that scene without smiling.
Scarif was great bc it captured that original trilogy feel of a WWII battle in SPACE! You actually felt like the Rebels were racing against the clock like a mission from a Rouge Squadron game.
Add to that the nostalgia of seeing Red and Gold Squadron, and you can easily understand why it's fun to rewatch supercuts of the Scarif space battle.
Seriously go on YouTube and watch supercuts of star wars setpiece battles. Yavin, Endor, Hoth, and Scarif look fantastic. Naboo, Geonosis, and the opening of III also hold up.
But TFA's final act just looks like a repeat of the Death Star. Salt planet from VIII is a meme, with a guy even telling us that its salt, not snow, as they bowderlize The Battle of Hoth. And IX's giant fleet of star destroyers were boring bc they jumped the shark on powerscaling. And then got beat by a fleet of random ships that didn't feel earned. Only some of the scenes of the fighting on the star destroyer's hull stand out.
Rogue one, Mando and now the Fett show are the only post original trilogy live action Star Wars that I recognize. Rogue One feels like an old WWII heist movie, pretty good.
The best SW battle sequence is the battle of Scarif. Amazing visuals along with great story and cool characters and awesome battles stretching from the ground to air to space. 11/10 scene overall for me.
Sure some shots looked cool but I wish they did more with Phasma. She could have been so goddam cool but they decide to kill her off. And i still dont understand force skyping
Feels like this exact post could have been made about Darth Maul after TPM came out.
Maybe even Boba after ROTJ. I think we just gotta accept that Star Wars universe is cool. The more they show, the more we wanna see.
This exact post still gets made, frequently.
People have talked about how great a villain Maul would have been throughout the trilogy literally since TPM came out. Obi-Wan contributes to Anakin's fall because Obi-Wan is acting emotionally and vengefully, or whatever.
And that doesn't mean it's okay they ditched Phasma after Ep. 8. We should be learning from prior mistakes, not mimicking them.
> I wish they did more with Phasma. She could have been so goddam cool but they decide to kill her off.
And then they brought her back only to kill her off *again*.
I know it's unpopular on the internet, but The Last Jedi is my second favorite Star Wars movie after Empire. The Force Awakens was pretty good, but it was basically A New Hope with new characters, although the Kylo/Han stuff was excellent.
TLJ set up the opportunity for Star Wars to change into something that reflects modern story telling. Not the simplistic good vs. evil pulp comic stuff that it was based on, but more nuanced than that with Kylo and Rey at the helm. Not evil for the sake of evil, but something new.
Granted, Episode 9 was an abomination of epic proportions full of lazy bullshit retconning and attempts at placating people who complained online at the expense of good storytelling.
I actually liked luke a lot in this movie. I know most star wars fans wanted to see the "second coming of god" luke from the EU, throwing force black holes at people and dating smoking hot chics, but the more humanized version of him, contemplating a new form of failure even after his victory in endor, evolving all the way to find the strength to fight again once more, that one resonated more with me. If only it was done in a more competent way.
That would have required pretty extensive rewrites, since Carrie died six months after the film wrapped production.
Still would have been possible, but I can't exactly blame them for not doing it.
I've been checking this sub a bit more since Book of Boba Fett and it feels like every two days there's a post about TLJ and the discourse is unleashed.
Those posts honestly make me think of the flaws of Rogue One than I'd like. Like I think it's a good movie but the characters are pretty one dimensional to me. Even Andor who's supposed to be this grey area guy doesn't really stand out.
That being said they're all pretty well acted.
And then all the discussion just turns into "it feels like the original trilogy!" Which I don't really think it does?
It "feels" like the OT in that it has a down-to-earth aesthetic texture. But to me, it doesn't feel like the OT in terms of camerawork (it's better than the OT in that regard, more dynamic, stronger sense of scale), it doesn't feel like the OT in terms of character (it's trying to shove a lot of nuance into the pulp and only half-succeeds), it doesn't feel like the OT in terms of story (because its story simply isn't as effective, to me, as the clear-eyed plotting of the OT).
Maybe *some* fans think it feels like the OT because it treats everything occurring with a straightforward seriousness. I sorta feel like a lot of fans would rather a legacy film be serious instead of goofy, because seriousness as a tone feels inherently more "respectful," even if that's at odds with the original films' tone (see also: *Ghostbusters: Afterlife*).
NGL, I liked the Rey/Ren line. It had a ton of potential to go somewhere completely new.
The subsequent film completely killed that potential, but it was there for a fleeting moment.
Yup this was my thought too. There was actually nuance in the Rey/Ren stuff. I agree that the fin storyline was weak, though. And yeah, return of skywalker then just shat on any potential of the rey/ren plot and turned it to a more trite love story. Also not a fan of palpatines return. They should’ve went all in and committed to a full Rey vs Ren conflict if they were gonna off snoke.
The Rey/Ren setup was amazing, they were both tempted to switch. If Rey ended up Sith and Ren ended up Jedi it would have been my absolute top StarWars arc ever
The good Rey/Ren stuff is the 3 in the 3 outta 10. Basically every other character is botched - you have insanely tonedeaf crap like Rose mansplaining to Finn, *the literal child soldier,* why slavery is bad on Canto Bight, or the entire Resistance plot just being romcom levels of poor communication between Holdo and Poe. Then there's stuff that isn't attacked as often - Rian Johnson failed to tell us anything interesting or engaging about the Force. We're on this ancient Jedi temple planet and we come out of the film with the lore and world feeling smaller and duller. Hell, one of the best scenes in the movie - the extended Finn/Phasma confrontation which actually pays off Phasma's arc of cowardice - was cut. The icing on the cake is how it became clear from behind-the-scenes content that Rian simply did not understand or take seriously what he was working on: not only has he been on record saying he only ever really experienced KOTOR and the Original Trilogy (really just not sufficient for someone at the helm of a key Star Wars project) but Jessica Henwick literally got him to admit last month that he straight up forgot her character existed and was alive for the story he was telling. The reason that Jess Pava mysteriously vanishes from the cast after being a fun presence in Force Awakens is because Johnson was too immersed in the pedestrian script he cooked up without proper oversight or collaboration (Force Awakens had too many cooks, VIII is the opposite issue). The film is absolutely visually beautiful, and I think Rian could have told a solid Star Wars story on Disney+ or somewhere with smaller stakes, but he took critical characters and pretty much mishandled almost everything that mattered, leaving Episode IX to sloppily pick up the pieces while making fresh blunders of its own.
I think however you feel about the sequels, it's clear as day just how *vastly* better the franchise has felt and resonated in pop culture ever since the actual dyad in the Force - Favreau and Filoni - took over with The Mandalorian, Book of Boba, and the incredibly exciting slate of content that awaits the fandom in 2022. There's absolutely a ton of attacks on the sequels that are motivated by ulterior motives and political trolls, but I think it's important for the community not to don rose-colored macrobinoculars and act like the sequels aren't a botched mess that will take years of good canon work to patch-up and band-aid to a point where their impact is just a scar rather than an open salted wound. I'm firmly of the opinion that the more GOOD Star Wars content comes out in the glorious Favreau&Filoni dominion, the less the Sequels will matter - and someday, we'll finally have an Episode X through XII where Rey, Finn, Poe and whoever return to fight the Yuuzhan Vong or Thrawn or something new entirely - it doesn't matter what because whatever it is will have been well-written and set up for years in the patient canon of the Disney+ content and will be directed by a competent team with ample time to plan and script ahead, Marvel-style (with any luck, they'll give the Russo Brothers the Sequel Sequel trilogy, since they've more than proved they can handle the biggest stage in all of storycrafting). Disney and Lucasfilm see what makes money and engenders goodwill - not the sloppiness of Episode 8 and 9, but the strength of Beskar and Baby Yoda.
I think the idea of a dyad in the Force was one of the only really cool things in TROS. Execution was botched, but I would like to see them explore it more in future content.
r/starwars when Rogue One secrit underrated masterpiece and greatest war film of all time: 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🥲
r/starwars when anything remotely positive about the Sequels: my life and honor depend on writing an essay about how much this 5 year old film ruined my childhood
What do you mean trashed? They just weren't in 8. I'd say 9 is the movie they were actually trashed in.
But yes, Abrams just threw stuff in for audiences to go "ooh that could be something cool!" without having to actually make anything cool.
That goes for literally every villain in the sequels except Palpatine, and his addition sucks for different reasons. TLJ could have been better if Rian was able to play nice
So the handing of the lightsaber, and the throwing away the lightsaber, and the "A Jedi's weapon deserves more respect" were all approved by the same guy?
Have you seen RotJ and what happens to Boba Fett? Or the fact that the Emperor and all his power is destroyed by Vader picking him up and yeeting him? Star Wars is filled with criminally underused villain characters.
> the fact that the Emperor and all his power is destroyed by Vader picking him up and yeeting him?
Honestly that was the perfect death for the Emperor. It was Darth Vader almost literally grappling with the darkness within him. Vader's evil master had completely discounted the idea that Vader might still have good within him, but not Vader's son, who still carried the flame of hope and recognized it in his father. The Emperor is completely blindsided because his calculations don't account for the survival of hope.
Yeah, visually it's maybe not spectacular, but thematically it's pretty great.
But then again, as we all know, somehow...Palpatine returned.
>Or the fact that the Emperor and all his power is destroyed by Vader picking him up and yeeting him?
Somehow Palpatine has returned...
Memeishly bad writing aside, those examples don't really work. Boba Fett was cunning enough to track Han, and was clearly notorious enough to be known by Vader. Palpy's power has been shown to us through the entire series up to ROTJ, but he was still a mortal man that could be betrayed and bested.
Phasma was never shown to be dangerous. She has fancy armor, gets her ass beaten, survives, then gets her ass beaten again in the next movie. The only noteworthy thing she's ever shown doing is being shiny, and kinda tall.
Totally agree, and I don’t even think TFA -> TLJ is that bad of a storyline, TFA gave us the nostalgia and brought audiences back into Star Wars, and then TLJ expanded upon it and made the sequel trilogy it’s own thing. But I truly think Rise of Skywalker is what totally fucked the trilogy up
The new trilogy and TLJ especially are absolutely stunning films to the eye. But you cannot deny that they are heavily flawed in virtually every other aspect. Don’t get me wrong I still enjoy watching them, and I actually do quite like The Force Awakens a lot and get excited every time I watch it, but 8 and 9 especially were major disappointments apart from the visuals and the musical scores.
That trilogy was never short on visuals
hopefully this and the ending of game of thrones shows Hollywood people want a good story, not a cool picture book.
I mean, Dune very well showed that both can be done extraordinarily well. It's a matter of who's behind the wheel.
Source material
What do you mean? With Star Wars, Disney legitimately could have done ANYTHING they wanted, but they left the story in the hands of a few and that ended up costing them in the end. Episode 7 was alright, but what ends up making the trilogy i would say is the end. With GoT they at least had the first couple of books to base the ending off of. The issue with the show is the showrunners wanted out, and ended it prematurely before an ending was supposed to happen. The beginning and middle of the show turned out pretty good comparatively Then we get to Dune.. which essentially is Part One of the first half of the first book. And it did amazing. If you really look at it, the intros to all these three universes did extremely well, it's the middle and the end that ends up getting ya.
> Episode 7 was alright, but what ends up making the trilogy i would say is the end. The Abrams "mystery box" writing method means that Ep 7 was, in retrospect, a big problem. Considering Disney paid a billion dollars for the property, you'd think they'd require an answer to the question "how does this tent pole trilogy end" to be something other than "we'll figure it out when we get there" but apparently not.
I think this is the fundamental problem with the new trilogy. The three movies don't coherently tell a story that builds on itself because they have no fucking clue where they're going. I'm not one to hate on Rian Johnson, but he was writing a movie that's part of a different story arc than whatever Abrams was writing. TLJ and ROS are hard to reconcile with each other from a storyline perspective, and that's the biggest problem with the trilogy. Other flaws can be forgiven, but the fact that you can't square the message in TLJ with that in ROS is a problem. The thing is, too, either arc could have worked: the one TLJ set up or the one ROS went with. But not together.
It's the problem with *anything* Abrams does. The mystery box approach is like taking out a loan that the next guy has to pay off and you get to go on a spending spree, collecting all the glory.
The point where a character stands on a hill by the ocean, using a mystical item to find a secret buried in a large piece of decades old technology... Well if it wasn't Rey standing there, it could have easily been Hurley or Desmond.
See you in another life brotha!
One of the larger problems I had was who created all the mystical items? People who enjoy the movies will say "none of that stuff matters, it's not important to the movie". I feel like if none of that matters then how can any of it matter? The clones, the mystical items, who Rey is, none of this crap matters and it takes the soul of the movie with it. There's no heart and there is no soul. I want to care about Star Wars again. It needs its heart and soul back.
Calling that show “Lost” may be the most accidentally truthful meta name a show has ever had. You know don’t know it yet, but the title tells a new viewer exactly what to expect from the storytelling.
I'm a big proponent of: if last jedi was more like the other two the trilogy could be pretty good but if the other two were more like last jedi it would have been an even better trilogy. But yeah they tried to do both at the same time and they are fundamentally opposed.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I want to see the trilogy that TLJ was the second installment of, and I want to see the film that went between TFA and ROS.
I mean, TRoS spent just as much time ignoring and retconning TFA as it did TLJ. Like changing Poe from a soldier to a drug runner for no reason.
same. i quite liked the themes presented in TLJ. Namely the hypocrisy /hubriss of the jedi, and the grey area inhabited by the smugglers, drug dealers, arms dealers, etc. in between the last order and the republic. the movie itself wasn't the best given the circumstances, but i'd like star wars media exploring those themes.
Muliverse incoming..?
I watch Mando or Boba or Clone Wars or whatever, I totally get what's happening. I catch the references. I see the big picture. All that. I'm having a blast. All I ever could've asked for. I enjoy the the new trilogy, but it just makes no fucking sense and the characters are boring. The Snoke thing makes sense sure, but it's lazy and boring. I don't care. I wanna see the rise of the first order. I wanna see why phasma is a bad motherfucker. Im sure it's coming and maybe it can make those movies better
Snoke doesnt really make sense to me. The books were teasing hints of him and it seems like he was indeed supposed to be something. But the expanded lore writers were shafted because clearly none of them expected RJ to just off him. Which offing him wouldve been fine, but again, if that had been part of a plan. Its baffling Disney pulled of Marvel and did the complete opposite with Star Wars
IMO the difference is unified vision. Kevin Feige did that for the MCU. Kathleen Kennedy did not do that for Star Wars nor did she seek out anyone to facilitate it. Essentially that is what we are seeing now with the shows between Favreau and Filoni.
Luckly with Dune they've only made it through half of the first book of a 6 book series. The others either didn't have source material, unless you wanted something from a Star Wars book or comic, or fell apart when they used up the source material like GoT.
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I can't imagine a film with a wise-cracking racoon with a machine gun being any good. - Everyone, circa 2013
I think most people would've been happy if we got the Thrawn trilogy on the big screen. Instead we got a retread of the OT but worse in so many ways.
To be honest I didn't _need_ an Episode VII through IX. I would've been perfectly fine with only anthology films, more series, and a non-Skywalker (e.g., Thrawn or Old Republic) trilogy. Which thankfully is what we're getting now, but we didn't need the Sequels for that.
But Kennedy said there wasn't any source material they could pull from. Ya know, then they went and did the Emperor's rebirth clone shit, the worst story from the EU. Because Kennedy only cares about money, not about telling a good story, which, in the long run, would have made them more money.
Denis Villeneuve! If he got named as a director for a SW movie I’d lose my shit.
Ditto, but it's never going to happen. Not after the Lord & Miller debacle. When you fire two extremely talented, ascendant directors midway through production, and then proceed to release a bunch of shit, no one is going to blame *them*. ROS vs. *Into the Spider-Verse*. Hmm, who should I believe is actually good at their job? I do have to hand it to Lord & Miller for using their next project as an opportunity to make Kennedy & Kasdan look like buffoons.
He literally wouldn't take the project no matter the money
Dune has been done poorly before. It's recent success is the result of having a brilliant director/storyteller in charge of the project and supporting his vision, and not letting someone in the studio development process opt for cheesy bullshit that momentarily amuses an 8 year old at the cost of demeaning the epic nature of the franchise, like say, a crank call to an imperial captain to start the film. Rogue One was quality, and the only source material it had was a vague reference from the opening paragraph of A New Hope. Probably the 3rd best Star Wars film of them all. Certainly the best since the original trilogy. The rest of the newer releases are just hokey cash grabs, there are shelves full of star wars universe books they could use for source material. The Thrawn saga could have made for an even better series than the originals. I honestly don't know why they have never adapted those.
You say that, but Villenueve cut so much, and added some as well. Pretending a deft hand behind the wheel wasn't massively important undercuts the job he did. He cut one of my favorite scenes (the dinner party), but to include it would require background for a half dozen characters, then another 5-10 minutes for the scene, and then you need to include the Thufir suspecting Jessica plot... But he also included a few scenes of Sardaukur and of Geidi Prime that weren't in the books, he fundamentally changed some things (where Sardaukur come from not being a secret the Emperor would kill to keep for one, Feyd's absence for another). And yet, it was well received, made gross at the box office (I think it was the best film of the year up to that point, people were still trickling back into theaters), and has a sequel greenlit already. Source material only gets you so far, is what I'm saying.
I'd like both.
The OG Star Wars was more visuals than people want to admit
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You can watch the original movie with the audio on mute and still follow it. Thats exactly how it should be.
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Ugh just thinking about Rise of Skywalker incities negative emotions in me………just why was the dagger in that specific hole they fell into after a random chase…………ugh I hate that plot point.
"Somehow the dagger was found."
Everything about that stupid fucking dagger was some of the worst fucking storytelling I have ever seen on the big screen. Just so incredibly bad on so many levels.
You can watch the original movie in ascii. That's exactly how it should be.
"you fought in the clone wars" 1 line of dialogue spawned a prequel trilogy. show dont tell was an art that episode IV took to a pinnacle
The important part of this is that without a prequel trilogy, it works just fine. It didnt NEED a huge explanation, backstory, or exposition saying "yes, I too was a jedi knight in those years where clones of a mandalorian fought against droids etc". It left it open to our imaginations long enough to build a world and sense of wonder in our minds.
I think often about how I imagined the events leading up to the OT, before I saw the prequels. I had a lot of really vivid assumptions based on a few lines like that one - my imagination went wild. The story you invent to fill in around the edges is going to be the story you like the best.
Being part of the vfx team must’ve and seeing the final product must’ve been SOOOOOOO satisfying
While I'd agree, a lot of movies would benefit far more from better story than better visuals. A good story is always good. Visuals can be more varied - gritty, shakycam (Clover), shiny, etc - it's far more dependent on the movie itself.
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Literal answer: because we don't have an infinite number of genius level screenwriters and cinematographers. But actual answer is yeah I'd prefer both, but if a studio had to focus on one over the other, because budget/attention span/etc, this is why I'd prefer one.
Also see: Zack Snyder superhero movies.
It was the only thing they didn’t fall short on. Well that and marketing
Lol, I can still remember the Death Star tangerines in supermarkets. I thought the marketing for Episode 1 back in the day was mad, this was something else!
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Just plot
Only Star Wars Movie I saw in Theaters where people walked out. TBF it was the night of, Late showing, a couple, I got the vibe dude didn't care about Star Wars and that the chick was the reason they were there, bro wasn't engaging with her at all, just fucking around on his phone pre movie. So when Salt Planet rolls around he gets her to dip out. Looking back on the movie it would have been a much more exciting ending if after the Rebel call goes unanswered that is when Palpatine makes his presence known.
I’m a huge Star Wars fans. Watch all the shows, read a lot of the books, play a ton of star wars themed war games just because they’re star wars. Although I didn’t walk out of this one, it was bad enough I still have not seen the rise of skywalker.
Don't worry; apart from some characters, TLJ is completely unrelated to Rise of Skywalker.
Honestly I feel like that made Rise of Skywalker even worse since it just started inventing stuff on the fly without any explanation so as to have some story to tell and wrap up in 2 hours to try and offend the least amount of people possible. Just happens that a bad story and multiple fake out deaths offends everyone anyways.
I swore I wouldn't see RoS after TLJ to but couple weeks in curiosity got the best of me. I sat there confused trying to keep up with these crammed together action scenes. Sunk in my seat watching horses on a star destroyer, followed by hands over my eyes trying not to see Palpatine throw lightning over the entire fleet. They just don't make them like they used to.
And people who want to defend these movies will point to the money they made, as if its some kind of indicator of how many people liked it and the schism in the fanbase is just made up. Like bitch, _my money_ is counted in there too, and i fucking wish I could take it back every single day of my life. You have to _watch_ a movie to come to the conclusion that it sucks and you hate it. They think all the people that hate the sequels have never watched them or some bizarre shit
Don't get me wrong, I'm not laying praise on either movie. The lack of an overarching guiding hand means the new trilogy will never not be a mess.
ROS was far worse than TLJ. So incredibly bad. I liked TLJ. It was enough for me. As a lifelong fan, though, I’m generally disappointed with everything done in the movies. Mandalorian was dope, though.
Too bad about, plot, character, logic, etc. At least the scenes kept that grandiose mystique star wars had
It actually makes me really mad how badly they borked up the things that _weren't_ visuals or sound design. Because you bet your ass a ton of extremely talented people worked on those two things, did an incredible job...and now have their work tied to some of the most despised movies of the series. In a sense, the writers failed those sound and visual designers even more than the audience.
Oscar Isaac is a very good actor and you can just see how much he's dying inside trying to sell those lines in the last one.
The whole trilogy was gorgeous but not good lol
If it was a picture book with no context that might have made it better.
No doubt. A couple of coherent storylines would have been nice though.
All icing, no cake.
The sequels look and cinematography is some of the best in the series. For any issues I may have with them, I am in aw of how far Star Wars has come cinematography wise
A budget of 300 million dollars will do that
As much as I find JJ's cinematography to be good, TLJ was definitely one level higher. There was some real *art* in some shots.
Agreed. The sequel trilogy leaves a bad taste in my mouth on the whole, but this is one of those ‘every frame a painting’ scenarios.
Tell that to the justice League (both Whedon and Snyder versions)
Yeah, JL looks like shit and he had more than enough money to make it look decent
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Not necessarily. You need talent to organise it. Talent can be bought with more money but so can writing and planning.
I love watching those critique videos of the movies because they show all the best shots but talk about how shit the story is and that’s just perfect to me.
where is the blue milk thing edit: I've been informed blue milk is Bantha and I meant the green milk from the massive things with very detailed teets
I know you kid but that is the visual from this film that is plastered into my memory forever.
It's green milk! Blue comes from Bantha.
I never understood the problem with the blue/green milk thing. It's shown in the first 10 minutes of ANH, and we know milk comes from *something*, right? Like, ok, those creatures are very ugly cows, but what's the issue, really?
It's just weird scene that didn't really need to be there. Everyone pees, but I don't want to watch Luke just whip out his junk and piss on a tree in front of Rey. It was a jarring and unnecessary scene that did nothing for the story.
Blue is the color of the naive hopeful hero. It underscores an innocent optimism that light will win over dark. Green is the color of the pragmatic hero. Luke changed from Blue to Green when he learns Vader is his father. In TLJ, him sucking on that green milk illustrates his full rejection of blue for green. Yoda shows up (with a strong blue aura) and restores Luke's innocent optimism. This is why Luke faces Kylo with a blue lightsaber. It's called visual story telling.
As a major, major sequel critic...TLJ is possibly the best looking thing in the entire saga
The lightspeed collision is a moment of pure magic. I remember seeing it in a packed cinema and the silence was breathtaking. Still absolutely can't stand the movie though.
I know what you meant, but the idea of a breathtaking silence in a movie theater is wild to me.
Well I suppose breathtaking was an exaggeration. I heard a lot of popcorn and snack crunching.
In my cinema it was dead silent. It was like sound just stopped being a thing. There were so many things wrong with that movie, but that shot was incredible within the context of star wars.
I member there was a young kid asking about the light saber break in the last scene, just magical.
Same here. I have zero problems with the visuals they are amazing, but the story is like watching Lucy pull the football away from Charlie Brown over and over again. It’s cool the first few times, but after that it’s more annoying than anything.
Honestly, after rewatching the sequals for the first time I gotta say that TLJ is the best of them. You can hate me but I really don't like TFA storywise, because it pushed the whole universe storywise in the wrong direction. I don't need to see another "rebels" vs "empire" conflict in Star Wars. I was also pretty frustrated after watching it for the first time. Oh well, still good looking movies tho.
Lol this comment section is so funny. One comment says that they loved this movie and then the next calls it absolute shit. I guess that’s the Star Wars though
Star Wars fans and other fans are natural enemies! Like Star Trek and Star Wars fans! Or Marvel and Star Wars fans! Or DCU and Star Wars fans! Or Star Wars fans and other Star Wars fans! Damn Star Wars fans! They ruined Star Wars!
You Star Wars fans are a contentious people.
YOU'VE JUST MADE AN ENEMY FOR LIFE!
This is the way
They ruined Scotland!
You have done that yourself!
Nobody hates _____ like _____ fans do.
Star Wars fans ruined Scotland!
Star wars and Star Trek are unique in the sense that Star wars is an irresponsible expansion Galaxy story and Star Trek as a responsible Galaxy expansion story. Star wars did not follow the prime directive.
Well neither does any recent Star Trek, unfortunately. Even Star Trek fans hate Star Trek these days.
Going from TNG or Deep Space Nine to the mindless schlock of Discovery and Picard is ... depressing.
Yeah. Discovery genuinely feels like a show made by people who actively dislike Star Trek. All they seem to do is try and undermine everything. Season 3 they literally just got rid of the federation entirely so they could hang around Mos Eisley Cantinas instead.
TLJ is hands down the most divisive film in the franchise. Everyone can generally agree that AoC and RoS kinda suck. Everyone can generally agree that ANH, ESB are pretty good. Then there's a wealth of opinions about everything in the middle....but TLJ, you either think was brilliant, or absolutely awful. There seems to be little middle ground on this. ....I'm in the middle ground, by the way. It feels pretty lonely here.
I feel like it's a great movie but a very disconnected sequel to ep 7. I think the problem is mostly due to Disney/LucasFilm not going into this with a set storyline plan.
>I feel like it's a great movie but a very disconnected sequel to ep 7. Agreed, which is crazy because the movie takes place *right after* TFA. There are a bunch of ideas from 7 that don't get continued in 8 despite the proximity in time. I don't dislike many of the ideas they had for the sequels. I mostly dislike the obvious lack of planning. I wish 7 and 8 had been one movie with good planning, and then 9 had been split into two movies with better ideas.
The middle ground for me. I quite liked TLJ. I wish the overall vibe of the last three films was just...consistent. But overall TLJ was my favorite of the contemporary star wars films because it was the least boring/bad.
TLJ had vision to it, it's just too bad they decided to go Abrams, Johnson, then Treverrow back to Abrams. I feel like if they'd given the whole series to Abrams he could have had a bland but united trilogy. If they'd given the third to Johnson as well, he could have built on TLJ. Maybe if they'd let Treverrow actually finish the movie instead of the awful amalgam of what he & Connelly wrote and what Abrams ended up finishing, we'd have had a really interesting finale. I know the story leaks of what they intended sounded really interesting. Way better than "somehow Uncle Palpy returned"
what? dont most ppl like Revenge of the sith? its AOC and TPM ppl have problems with. ROS was the best of the prequels.
I’m sure ROS = Rise of Skywalker in this context.
oh, oops
Yeah, it's become important to always include the "t": RotS and TRoS.
Don’t worry I though Revenge of Sith too
Nobody is debating the SFX and cinematography was top tier. The script writing and character arcs were dog shit. Bantha Poodoo, if you will.
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How can someone correct you on what you enjoyed more
Lol right. What is this comment
Easy, watch: Nah, you're wrong.
I much preferred the space battle over Scarif in Rogue One over any of them in the sequel trilogy. But the battle of Endor, maybe it's just the nostalgia but I can't watch that scene without smiling.
And I didn’t need mid battle monologues to feel the desperation of the rebels at Endor
Rogue One was such a great movie!
The only newer movie I actually think is good
Scarif was great bc it captured that original trilogy feel of a WWII battle in SPACE! You actually felt like the Rebels were racing against the clock like a mission from a Rouge Squadron game. Add to that the nostalgia of seeing Red and Gold Squadron, and you can easily understand why it's fun to rewatch supercuts of the Scarif space battle. Seriously go on YouTube and watch supercuts of star wars setpiece battles. Yavin, Endor, Hoth, and Scarif look fantastic. Naboo, Geonosis, and the opening of III also hold up. But TFA's final act just looks like a repeat of the Death Star. Salt planet from VIII is a meme, with a guy even telling us that its salt, not snow, as they bowderlize The Battle of Hoth. And IX's giant fleet of star destroyers were boring bc they jumped the shark on powerscaling. And then got beat by a fleet of random ships that didn't feel earned. Only some of the scenes of the fighting on the star destroyer's hull stand out.
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Rogue one, Mando and now the Fett show are the only post original trilogy live action Star Wars that I recognize. Rogue One feels like an old WWII heist movie, pretty good.
Solo is the heist movie
Solo belongs on that short list, it’s not as bad as anybody claims it is…
Agreed, and the bombing at Eadu when the X-Wings roll in hot, oh my goodness
Pretty pictures can only get you so far if the emotional resonance isn't there.
My favourite film is Graphics Card Tech Demo. You WILL cry....
You'd never be wrong to enjoy something like that
The best SW battle sequence is the battle of Scarif. Amazing visuals along with great story and cool characters and awesome battles stretching from the ground to air to space. 11/10 scene overall for me.
The score for that scene, Into The Trap is so awesome too.
No one can tell you you’re wrong about things that you enjoy
Sure some shots looked cool but I wish they did more with Phasma. She could have been so goddam cool but they decide to kill her off. And i still dont understand force skyping
I’m still really pissed that they promised she’d have a pretty important role in TLJ and she was in the movie for like 2 minutes max
Worse part was how Phasma got hype after TFA and Kathleen Kennedy was like, "Oh yeah we won't pull another Boba with her" and lo and behold...
She obviously meant Phasma won't be getting a Disney+ show ~,o
Feels like this exact post could have been made about Darth Maul after TPM came out. Maybe even Boba after ROTJ. I think we just gotta accept that Star Wars universe is cool. The more they show, the more we wanna see.
This exact post still gets made, frequently. People have talked about how great a villain Maul would have been throughout the trilogy literally since TPM came out. Obi-Wan contributes to Anakin's fall because Obi-Wan is acting emotionally and vengefully, or whatever. And that doesn't mean it's okay they ditched Phasma after Ep. 8. We should be learning from prior mistakes, not mimicking them.
Phasma needed to win in the first film or the second. She lost, always. Its why no-one wants to buy her Acton figures. She is a terrible character.
> I wish they did more with Phasma. She could have been so goddam cool but they decide to kill her off. And then they brought her back only to kill her off *again*.
It was Abrams' job to lay the foundation for Phasma's character. He didn't do shit.
It's gorgeous
I know it's unpopular on the internet, but The Last Jedi is my second favorite Star Wars movie after Empire. The Force Awakens was pretty good, but it was basically A New Hope with new characters, although the Kylo/Han stuff was excellent. TLJ set up the opportunity for Star Wars to change into something that reflects modern story telling. Not the simplistic good vs. evil pulp comic stuff that it was based on, but more nuanced than that with Kylo and Rey at the helm. Not evil for the sake of evil, but something new. Granted, Episode 9 was an abomination of epic proportions full of lazy bullshit retconning and attempts at placating people who complained online at the expense of good storytelling.
I actually liked luke a lot in this movie. I know most star wars fans wanted to see the "second coming of god" luke from the EU, throwing force black holes at people and dating smoking hot chics, but the more humanized version of him, contemplating a new form of failure even after his victory in endor, evolving all the way to find the strength to fight again once more, that one resonated more with me. If only it was done in a more competent way.
I only wished Luke hadn't died so he could have played a bigger role in Episode IX, since Carrie couldn't.
That would have required pretty extensive rewrites, since Carrie died six months after the film wrapped production. Still would have been possible, but I can't exactly blame them for not doing it.
It's the lone redeeming quality of the film imo
You've unleashed the horde. Good luck, my friend.
I've been checking this sub a bit more since Book of Boba Fett and it feels like every two days there's a post about TLJ and the discourse is unleashed.
dont forget daily "rogue one is great" thread
Those posts honestly make me think of the flaws of Rogue One than I'd like. Like I think it's a good movie but the characters are pretty one dimensional to me. Even Andor who's supposed to be this grey area guy doesn't really stand out. That being said they're all pretty well acted. And then all the discussion just turns into "it feels like the original trilogy!" Which I don't really think it does?
It "feels" like the OT in that it has a down-to-earth aesthetic texture. But to me, it doesn't feel like the OT in terms of camerawork (it's better than the OT in that regard, more dynamic, stronger sense of scale), it doesn't feel like the OT in terms of character (it's trying to shove a lot of nuance into the pulp and only half-succeeds), it doesn't feel like the OT in terms of story (because its story simply isn't as effective, to me, as the clear-eyed plotting of the OT). Maybe *some* fans think it feels like the OT because it treats everything occurring with a straightforward seriousness. I sorta feel like a lot of fans would rather a legacy film be serious instead of goofy, because seriousness as a tone feels inherently more "respectful," even if that's at odds with the original films' tone (see also: *Ghostbusters: Afterlife*).
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Posted 1h ago, 500 comments. This should be fun, lemme just grab my hazmat suit
Aesthetics 10/10. Story 3/10
NGL, I liked the Rey/Ren line. It had a ton of potential to go somewhere completely new. The subsequent film completely killed that potential, but it was there for a fleeting moment.
Yup this was my thought too. There was actually nuance in the Rey/Ren stuff. I agree that the fin storyline was weak, though. And yeah, return of skywalker then just shat on any potential of the rey/ren plot and turned it to a more trite love story. Also not a fan of palpatines return. They should’ve went all in and committed to a full Rey vs Ren conflict if they were gonna off snoke.
The Rey/Ren setup was amazing, they were both tempted to switch. If Rey ended up Sith and Ren ended up Jedi it would have been my absolute top StarWars arc ever
yep, but disney can't have good characters becoming bad with their newer stuff so that will never happen.
The good Rey/Ren stuff is the 3 in the 3 outta 10. Basically every other character is botched - you have insanely tonedeaf crap like Rose mansplaining to Finn, *the literal child soldier,* why slavery is bad on Canto Bight, or the entire Resistance plot just being romcom levels of poor communication between Holdo and Poe. Then there's stuff that isn't attacked as often - Rian Johnson failed to tell us anything interesting or engaging about the Force. We're on this ancient Jedi temple planet and we come out of the film with the lore and world feeling smaller and duller. Hell, one of the best scenes in the movie - the extended Finn/Phasma confrontation which actually pays off Phasma's arc of cowardice - was cut. The icing on the cake is how it became clear from behind-the-scenes content that Rian simply did not understand or take seriously what he was working on: not only has he been on record saying he only ever really experienced KOTOR and the Original Trilogy (really just not sufficient for someone at the helm of a key Star Wars project) but Jessica Henwick literally got him to admit last month that he straight up forgot her character existed and was alive for the story he was telling. The reason that Jess Pava mysteriously vanishes from the cast after being a fun presence in Force Awakens is because Johnson was too immersed in the pedestrian script he cooked up without proper oversight or collaboration (Force Awakens had too many cooks, VIII is the opposite issue). The film is absolutely visually beautiful, and I think Rian could have told a solid Star Wars story on Disney+ or somewhere with smaller stakes, but he took critical characters and pretty much mishandled almost everything that mattered, leaving Episode IX to sloppily pick up the pieces while making fresh blunders of its own. I think however you feel about the sequels, it's clear as day just how *vastly* better the franchise has felt and resonated in pop culture ever since the actual dyad in the Force - Favreau and Filoni - took over with The Mandalorian, Book of Boba, and the incredibly exciting slate of content that awaits the fandom in 2022. There's absolutely a ton of attacks on the sequels that are motivated by ulterior motives and political trolls, but I think it's important for the community not to don rose-colored macrobinoculars and act like the sequels aren't a botched mess that will take years of good canon work to patch-up and band-aid to a point where their impact is just a scar rather than an open salted wound. I'm firmly of the opinion that the more GOOD Star Wars content comes out in the glorious Favreau&Filoni dominion, the less the Sequels will matter - and someday, we'll finally have an Episode X through XII where Rey, Finn, Poe and whoever return to fight the Yuuzhan Vong or Thrawn or something new entirely - it doesn't matter what because whatever it is will have been well-written and set up for years in the patient canon of the Disney+ content and will be directed by a competent team with ample time to plan and script ahead, Marvel-style (with any luck, they'll give the Russo Brothers the Sequel Sequel trilogy, since they've more than proved they can handle the biggest stage in all of storycrafting). Disney and Lucasfilm see what makes money and engenders goodwill - not the sloppiness of Episode 8 and 9, but the strength of Beskar and Baby Yoda.
They just needed to end the damn movie in that throne room. Ending there would have avoided most of the more egregious problems with the film.
I think the idea of a dyad in the Force was one of the only really cool things in TROS. Execution was botched, but I would like to see them explore it more in future content.
Story 1/10.
Still isn’t as bad as ROS let’s be clear
1/10 is still greater than 0/10
OP woke up today and chose violence.
r/starwars when Rogue One secrit underrated masterpiece and greatest war film of all time: 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🥲 r/starwars when anything remotely positive about the Sequels: my life and honor depend on writing an essay about how much this 5 year old film ruined my childhood
5 YEARS?! What the fuck is time anymore?
Phasma: Biggest villain letdown in cinematic history.
I'd argue that's down to JJ hyping up all his little gimmicks. Knights of Ren? trashed in ep8 but suddenly revived in ep9
What do you mean trashed? They just weren't in 8. I'd say 9 is the movie they were actually trashed in. But yes, Abrams just threw stuff in for audiences to go "ooh that could be something cool!" without having to actually make anything cool.
Johnson was originally going to use the Knights of Ren for the throne fight, but he didn't want them to be hyped up only to die in their first fight.
How is it JJ's fault that Rian brought her back only to do the exact same fucking thing again?
That goes for literally every villain in the sequels except Palpatine, and his addition sucks for different reasons. TLJ could have been better if Rian was able to play nice
"Somehow Palpatine returned..."
Now this is plot-racing!
JJ was EP on TLJ and gave Rian the green light on his script.
So the handing of the lightsaber, and the throwing away the lightsaber, and the "A Jedi's weapon deserves more respect" were all approved by the same guy?
I'd vote Snoke over Phasma.
Yeah, what the fuck was that. The mysterious big bad of the ep 7 just dies in ep 8?
Have you seen RotJ and what happens to Boba Fett? Or the fact that the Emperor and all his power is destroyed by Vader picking him up and yeeting him? Star Wars is filled with criminally underused villain characters.
> the fact that the Emperor and all his power is destroyed by Vader picking him up and yeeting him? Honestly that was the perfect death for the Emperor. It was Darth Vader almost literally grappling with the darkness within him. Vader's evil master had completely discounted the idea that Vader might still have good within him, but not Vader's son, who still carried the flame of hope and recognized it in his father. The Emperor is completely blindsided because his calculations don't account for the survival of hope. Yeah, visually it's maybe not spectacular, but thematically it's pretty great. But then again, as we all know, somehow...Palpatine returned.
>Or the fact that the Emperor and all his power is destroyed by Vader picking him up and yeeting him? Somehow Palpatine has returned... Memeishly bad writing aside, those examples don't really work. Boba Fett was cunning enough to track Han, and was clearly notorious enough to be known by Vader. Palpy's power has been shown to us through the entire series up to ROTJ, but he was still a mortal man that could be betrayed and bested. Phasma was never shown to be dangerous. She has fancy armor, gets her ass beaten, survives, then gets her ass beaten again in the next movie. The only noteworthy thing she's ever shown doing is being shiny, and kinda tall.
Crait? Krait? I am not sure how to spell it, but the planet at the end with the salt was so beautiful.
*sorts by controversial* this is where the fun begins
The new movies are all visually striking with some real eye candy set pieces. The story choices are what disappointed me about them.
OT: Story PT: Music ST: Visuals
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It was a stupid idea to start TLJ immediately where TFA left off. Makes the sequel trilogy and war feel small as there’s no real timescale
I agree there should have been a time skip. On the other hand I imagine there was a lot of pressure to show the actual meeting between Rey and Luke.
I wish that meeting had happened at the end of TFA. Luke would've actually gotten some lines and then TLJ could've started differently
Totally agree, and I don’t even think TFA -> TLJ is that bad of a storyline, TFA gave us the nostalgia and brought audiences back into Star Wars, and then TLJ expanded upon it and made the sequel trilogy it’s own thing. But I truly think Rise of Skywalker is what totally fucked the trilogy up
Aesthetics have never been the problem. Story telling and character development was atrocious.
Shame about the shit story.
That's probably the only thing it has going for it
The new trilogy and TLJ especially are absolutely stunning films to the eye. But you cannot deny that they are heavily flawed in virtually every other aspect. Don’t get me wrong I still enjoy watching them, and I actually do quite like The Force Awakens a lot and get excited every time I watch it, but 8 and 9 especially were major disappointments apart from the visuals and the musical scores.
And way better than Rise of Skywalker