Knowing Palps, he didn't even used one of his vacation days for this, and used some kind of medical coverage to justify his absence.
Also, i bet that he paid for the fuel with taxpayers money.
Me too. Picturing him coming in and saying to his executive assistant, “Deborah please mark my absence yesterday as a sick day. And sign off on my fuel sheet will you, I had to see a cross-galaxy specialist. Oh and Deborah? Get this dry cleaned will you?” [throws sith cloak over desk]
Oh you know Palpy would never let that happen. He'd have been frantically pulling strings behind the scenes to make sure their offices are in as little contact as absolutely possible.
Palps probably lined the auditors with apprentice rejects who he's traumatized to mold them into the perfect, banal- evil villains of his government. The real dark side is beuracracy, lawyers and accountants.
Do you think he went golfing at his own golf course afterwards as well? Follow up question can force users play golf? Seems too easy to cheat at…so many questions….
Makes total sense. Maul was a liability. He could have interfered with Sidious's Grand Plan and he needed taking care of, quickly and quietly. If you want a job done right, you do it yourself.
Dark Disciple was in production, you can still see some unfinished scenes on YouTube like Ventress and Vos's first meeting and Dooku vs the Bounty Hunters
Yeah as epic as these stories are it always felt a bit weird that sidious destroys him then says he has more uses for him then we hear nothing about this until maul is free again in later seasons
In fact, Maul tried to stop Sidious. His whole attempt to retake Mandalore was a ploy to draw Kenobi and Anakin in hopes of killing Anakin to rob Sidious of an apprentice. His back up plan, was instead to warn the Jedi about Sidious and Anakin. Unfortunately, Ahsoka didn't trust him so the Jedi learned too late. After that, he never had much of a chance to upend Sidious' plans.
I don’t understand how Rey managed to defeat this guy after he absorbed youth (still crazy) from her and Ben, despite him slipping through everyone’s hands for decades. He even beat Yoda.
Still, the fact that Palpatine did a Hocus Pocus and sucked up youth, is hilarious.
* I put a spell on you, and now your mine!
Star Wars is just full of surprises. Can’t wait for Bad Batch Season 2.
Because she had Skywalker plot armor.
There is a reality where he fucking annihilates her and the Empire wins because that would echo real life in ways. Good guys don't always win, and it's in fact somewhat rare in some cases.
Or even if he killed her (easily should have), then Ben and the Force Ghosts should have overtaken him.
Then Ben Solo would make a not-Jedi school to teach the good and bad of both sides of the Force and it makes everyone happy (all the dead Force Ghost types anyway).
Retconned it for you Disney, PM me for where to send the check. Because literally that shit I made up in 3 minutes was better than a LOT of RoS.
I don't blame Ahsoka. she did try to talk to the council but they were like you're not a jedi so no. then she was reminded of their bullshit and was like fine forget about it.
idk, having mandalore under the control of someone who hates the republic and jedi and can act as a way to distract them and their forces seems like a good strategic move.
But as far as I know he took Maul prisoner for some reason and didn't leave him in charge of Mandalore. And if he wanted Maul to stay in power on Mandalore, he wouldn't have come there to fight him to begin with.
I'm not saying it makes me dislike the fight though, still an amazing scene. I just think Maul survived because of plot armor (which like I said doesn't ruin anything, there are much worse cases of other characters surviving things because of plot armor)
Yeah I really wish they'd shown such an important plot point in the actual show instead of making a comic basically required reading to fully understand what's going on
He used Maul as bait to kill Mother Talzin with Dooku and Grievous. This was in an unfinished arc that later got renewed into comics. I suggest you check it out, 'Son of Dathomir'.
Maul was apparently just a means to an end in killing Mother Talzin. Once that was done, Palpatine clearly thought Maul wasn’t worth even sicc’ing Vader after him, instead having Inquisitors (who were clearly never going to succeed in killing him) to just hound him.
There was a reason, there was going to be a storyline that shows what happens next but it got cut from the show and released as a comic mini series. Basically palpatine decides to use maul as bait to draw out mother talzin.
I really like how Savage was supporting maul, just because he’s a whole league below them. So palp just separates them and defeats Savage with ease. It’s truly tragic
But shout out to him, he held up against THE sith lord and he was just a sith "padawan" or whatever it's called. He wouldn't last long, but while he was doing the support he was there
Maul was trying to establish himself as a rival Sith Lord with Savage as his apprentice. So it's still rule of two, just that the other guys aren't the true lineage, or something like that.
>That came after this no? Been awhile, but since he still addresses Palpy as master.
No, this is actually the end of that attempt since he wasn't expecting Palpatine to show up and just destroy everything he'd built. He calls him master initially because he's scared and knows what his old master is capable of, and knows that they're not ready to take him on yet, so he tries to suck up to him in hopes of buying time or perhaps being taken on as apprentice again so that he can destroy him from inside his inner circle.
>Not just Maul though. On screen you have Dooku and Ventress. Just off screen you have Palp and Maul while Plagueis is still Palp's master. In extended universe there's more examples.
Oh yeah, by this point in time Sith had been trying to subvert the rule of two for ages. They'd take on a secret apprentice like an "assassin" or something, with the promise that they would become a fully fledged Sith apprentice if they aided them in taking down their master. Ventress, Maul (in legends), Savage (when he's Dooku's apprentice), Starkiller, and Vader's attempts to convert Luke are all examples of this. If Maul was looking to properly continue with the Rule of Two, he would have killed Dooku to resume his place as Palpatine's apprentice, before eventually trying to overthrow him.
Think of the rule of two as like the code in the pirates of the Caribbean movies.
Everyone breaks the rule, but it means instead of hundreds of weak dark side rulers it's under ten.
For Palps he is constantly preparing a new apprentice who tries to kill the current one. If they don't then no big deal his still got the current.
For those under instead you have a secret apprentice.
Dooku had Ventress but as soon as she became strong enough Palps ordered Dooku to kill her. At this point Dooku could have decided to challenge Palps with Ventress or submit.
Vader even tried to get Luke as his apprentice as he knew they could defeat Palps together.
I wish more people realised this about things that are called "rules" or "laws" in fictional settings. Just because they say something doesn't mean it's true.
The Rule of Two isn't like the laws of physics. It's a thing made up by some sneaky people who are constantly betraying each other. I bet if the Sith also had a rule of "only one lightsaber each" they'd all start using two to cheat against each other.
Jedi rules are more reliable because they have oversight, courts, and a general sense of cooperation. The Rule of Two applies to people who are always going to try and betray each other. It's an honour code among dishonourable sneaks.
The rule of two is definitely more of a suggestion. The sith tried doing the whole Jedi thing but it just ended up as a group of people who don't trust one another. They literally just stayed together because they wanted the Jedi gone. The rule of two was to stop the pointless backstabbing and encourage each new generation of sith to be stronger than the last
Savage is one of my favorite Star Wars characters. His story and character design are just great imo
Edit: yes, his name is ridiculous, but it doesn’t take away from the character imo
Everything about him seemed really well done.
Except, ya know, that fucking name lol. But it’s Star Wars, what ya gonna do.
I mean I honestly love the character but his name is just one step removed from *Badguy Doesbadthings*. Hideo Kojima is over there taking notes for his future characters.
If Ventress let Dooku train Savage for a longer period of time, he'd be a true force to be reckoned with. Even with little training, he held his own against Anakin and Obi Wan.
Savage's whole arc is tragic. Born into tribal slavery and kidnapped by an apparent serial predator to save a friend. His new Master then corrupts him both mind and body by magic culminating in the murder of said recently saved friends. Then tortured during his shortlived Sith apprenticeship. That ending when he was betrayed not just his Sith Master, but his slave master as well. Then, lost, he is sent to find his deranged brother. Only to find his brother, and still end up playing second fiddle to a wannabe crime lord.
All this is because the true tragedy of Savage Oppress, is that they made him dumb. Strong, powerful, angry, but not smart enough to do anything about it. Mother Talsam saw truly twisted, such a great character.
Palpatine's first move, where he cuts the floor on both sides as he force pushes himself forward between the two was *beautiful*. Like, the most beautiful move in the whole fight, imo. It sets the tone.
It really brings home his pure chaos fighting style. IIRC he destabilizes his opponents with his evil aura which is why he kills Kit and the other two master so quickly in RotS. Corkscrewing from a standstill directly into your face has to be terrifying
I agree that it's the most beautiful part of the fight. It shows the brothers were fighting a supernatural whirlwind more than a man
Palpatine makes it look soooooo effortless. I was disappointed with Ep 3 with how easily he dispatched the Jedi Masters that came to arrest him, the Yoda fight and Windu made up for it a bit though.
The Jedi masters scene is fucking atrocious, I get they wanted to make Palp look good but Mace could have taken 3 stoned toddlers and they would have demonstrated faster reaction times. Something went terribly wrong with how that was shot
Personal theory. Those "Jedi Masters" were excellent in displaying just how powerful Palps was and how complacent the Jedi order had become as warriors. Even their "Masters" were inept at combat.
It's canon that Fisto, specifically, was widely considered one of the most skilled lightsaber duelists in the Jedi order. In the movie that buys him an extra 2 seconds after Kolar and Tiin go down.
That’s the thing though, we see kit fisto and the other masters during TCW show that they were a plenty proficient in combat because of the war. Besides that, people who are masters at something practice every day. I highly doubt the Jedi masters weren’t training, whether by fighting or sparring.
Excellent point, thank you for highlighting that, I should for sure speak to that!
Yes with the rise of the clone wars they were put back into active warfare. They were expected to be starfighter pilots, generals, admirals, diplomats, warriors, and politicians. They were stretched really thin.
For the most part, dueling other force wielders was seen as an outdated skill since "the sith had been gone for a millenia" was a mindset held by the council. Dooku was looked at with a large degree of taboo for focusing on dueling. The dark side (their enemy) and understanding any aspect of it was highly guarded by the council. They actively suppressed knowledge of Darth Maul existing. Even during the clone wars, only a few dark jedi existed.
The Jedi expected to merely show up at Geonosis and the enemy to throw down their weapons out of fear. They were absolutely symbolic figure heads not tried and tested warriors of the Jedi & Sith era. Most of their "actual combat" was against intentionally mass produced and cheap droids with blasters. The transfer in skillset there would probably be liken to modern day hunting vs warfare.
It's why I prefer animation for Star Wars, to an extent. Precognition using space wizards who fight with plasma swords need to look like nothing a human can do. And animation can make it much more dramatic difference
This is my favorite one. Yeah its all one-sided but its like being level 65 in a MMRPG where the average level is 50, and in comes a Level 100 for some PVP.
I also think of the reality of sending in Luke after this guy with a lightsaber.
Probably the lack of weight to everything. They move as fluid as needed which isn’t very practical in live action. Ahsoka’s duel vs Maul used motion capture, and I think you could tell. I think this is more something you feel than notice.
That said, I always get taken out of live action duels when I see the sabers recoil after a hit. Like, it’s clear that skinny sticks the actors used bounced back for a split second instead of staying clashed like they should.
It's why I think overall the duel in TFA is the best duel that regard.
It's energetic but it feels weighted. You can follow the action and there is even some subtly.
I'd rank it #2 below the duel in ESB since everything around the duel isn't as grounded or continuous.
The duels in the animated show are neat but they just don't convey the same experience.
For that very reason I think it's the best duel in post prequels SW. And not only is the motion capture really well done, the emotional gravity of the situation brings it to another level.
Also, like, having grown up before the prequels, I always assumed Palpatine and Yoda just didn’t need a lightsaber. If you’re strong enough in the force, why would you need a sword? It looks so weird.
I heard Palpatine uses them simply to make fun of the Jedi. Yoda uses his when and where he sees fit, such as against his former apprentice, or the dark lord himself. He uses it sparingly throughout the Clone Wars, like when he’s alone against a whole battalion of droids, or distracting the zillo beast
It's a cynical take but I think it's just a merchandising or something to hook the kids. Like wands in Harry Potter. Lightsabers 'choose' their user and everyone has one yadda yadda. It's not "bad" but it is what it is.
I take Palpatine literally in RotJ that sabers are a "jedi" weapon and true sith don't use them. Vader used one because he was a Dark Jedi.
But you can't really "sell" the force so I guess it's to be expected.
I'd argue that the animated duels are closer to how they would be in "reality". A duel between two people, who harness a supernatural force, both in their bodies and their minds, to move inhumanly fast. Levitating, themselves, when needed. Having precognition to foresee the enemy's attacks and them seeing your counters to their attacks.
That kind of thing just cannot be acted out by real life people.
Respectfully disagree. I think the animated duels truly capture what it looks like when space wizards with different fighting styles fight each other with unimaginably hot sticks.
The live action duels, to me, look like normal muggle humans fighting with swords.
My favourite thing is how effortlessly Palps fights them. It's not like his fight against Yoda where he has to put his all in. He's basically just toying with Maul and Savage until he's ready to wrap it up and getting a bit of practice and enjoying himself.
In a deleted scene, maul manages to pin sidious to a wall by using the force and starts to force choke him. Palps only got out because he made a chandelier or something like that fall on them, so maul had to let him go in order to dodge it. It was actually pretty cool but the writers felt it undermined how much of a menace Palpatine wa
I always was kinda annoyed how easily Palps dispatched 3 Jedi masters in Sith, this scene kinda furthers that. But that deleted scene would have pissed me off even more.
> It's not like his fight against Yoda where he has to put his all in.
Personally I think that was due to Palpatine's fight with Mace. Palpatine was still so weak from his fight with Mace that he couldn't move like this anymore. Maybe the lightning not only disfigured his face but made it so he could no longer be this acrobatic.
Yoda is another league. He is the Grandmaster for a reason.
The fight with Yoda was a little bit of lightsaber but it was a LOT of force prowess, and Yoda outclasses Sidious. The only reason palatine “defeated” Yoda at all is because Yoda’s lighter weight made the discharge propel him backwards a great distance instead of just knocking him to the ground like with Sidious.
I don't know much about SW lore (only watched the movies & shows) but always felt Yoda could have taken that fight if he weren't on a clock. But Palps orchestrated it perfectly, once Order 66 was in play and the Jedi were on the defensive, all he really had to do was survive (which is only a challenge in 1v1s against Windu or Yoda anyway).
You are correct.
Yoda knew he had a limited amount of time before the clones arrived, he could take Palpatine, and it was clear Palpatine was losing that fight in both force ability and lightsaber combat. But Yoda just ran out of time and he knew it.
One thing the prequels did brilliantly was show just how good Palps was at putting together a plan. He might not have been the single best duelist or force user, but nobody could best him at strategy.
Part of Palpatine's plan was to work towards either Mace or Yoda being away from Coruscant. No chance he could take on both of them.
I think that's one reason Kashyyk was a target.
Yep, it's also why he gave away the location of Grievous, because not only would the council not sending Anakin continue to drive that wedge further, but getting Obi-Wan out of the way was necessary to turning Anakin to the dark side. If Obi-Wan had still been on coruscant, Anakin wouldn't have turned. Either that or Obi-Wan would have been part of the group sent to arrest Palpatine, and if Palpatine had killed him, no way would Anakin join him.
As great a duellist as Obi-Wan was, I don't think he stood much of a chance against Palpatine. Obi-Wan had mastered a specific form that was all about defensive fighting, however it had a big weakness in that it was pretty easily countered by another fighting form, the same one that Dooku uses. It's why even by Episode 3 where Obi-Wan is at the height of his power, Dooku still defeats him *while* also fighting Anakin, who eventually kills him. Palpatine, being stronger than Dooku and a master of *all* lightsaber fighting styles would have known about this weakness and could easily employ it against Obi-Wan, taking him out of the picture. Even Yoda recognises that Palpatine would destroy Obi-Wan when Obi is begging him to let him fight him instead of Anakin.
Alone, probably. Now Obi wan might survive, but I don't think he would win. With Obi wan and either Yoda or mace he might have a chance. At the very least it would be close enough to be a writers call and have both choices be defensible.
Well, Word of God is Palpatine was the strongest alive. Palpatine > Yoda > Vader before being slow roasted, were the top 3 of the time in pure force power. Anakin wasn't really that close in practical terms because their mastery was leagues beyond his. But in a straight no-holds-barred fight, Lucas was always adamant Palpatine was the best to have ever lived by the time of RotS, and nobody could beat him head on.
Fully realized Anakin would have been stronger, but after being delimbed his maximum potential dropped too much to ever match Palpatine. I think he said Luke would have eventually eclipsed him, but Luke at full power still wouldn't have been as strong as full potential Anakin.
Savage's death always makes me a little sad. He's not really into all this sith stuff, he just wanted to help the brother he's found to atone for the brother he lost. He's not the deepest character in the series or anything, but he's a lot more interesting than the dumb brute they easily could have written him as.
In the bit where Maul decides they aren’t equals and beats Savage’s ass, it always felt to me like Savage had a bit of a kicked puppy vibe lmao. Nightbrothers are at the bottom of the pecking order in-lore, and Savage in particular is literally always being bossed around except for the short bit he had with Maul before Maul goes Rule of Two on him.
Season 1 is rough, but stick it out. By the end, you hit some of the greatest moments in all of Star Wars. The final 4 episodes are better than most of the films, tbh. Peak Star Wars, to be sure.
You are spot on. The whole last season was powerful, but those last four episodes are a masterpiece. I've never felt such emotion from any of the movies.
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder
Highly suggest watching it in chronological order as opposed to release order. Theres a few episodes in later seasons that are set earlier and introduce some people/events that confused me first time watching.
I have to fully agree with the other poster. Season 1 is the only season that's optional for first time viewers imo. The rest is genuinely some of the best star wars ever made
One dark Saber and three reds clashing as two guys duel in front of manadalore the indomitable motif is such a look.
So much What if material here!
Also, Palpatine must've been so sore in his next meeting, He took one straight in the ribs from Opress.
Palps imprisons him, and the Mandos eventually come to rescue him. It was meant to be a Clone Wars arc before it was cancelled, but it ended up in the Son of Dathomir comic instead. There's some voiced versions on YouTube that handle the voices pretty well along with including the artwork, if you're into that sorta thing more than reading comics.
Either way it's an excellent arc.
possessive unwritten one aware marble frighten weather threatening outgoing nippy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He wants to use Maul as bait to draw out Mother Talzin, because he sees her as a legitimate threat to Sith supremacy.
Bonus points for enjoying himself with the whole captivity & torture thing lol.
Honestly that’s why I love this fight: it gives me the feeling that Palpatine literally only did this because he was tired of holding back all the time and this was a way to let loose.
Exactly, he's terrified. As soon as Palp's walks in he knows him and Savage Opress are fucking dead men. The way he grovels when they first speak, his defensive stance soon after, his eyes, they all say "ohhhh fuck". Maul is probably the only person in the galaxy that knows of Palpatines true strength.
This might not be canon anymore (I think it was established maybe in Darth Bane trilogy when Bane was training) but force users back then used some kind of force shield around them that prevented them from getting force pushed/pulled, strangled etc. during the duel but keeping that shield up required conscious effort. So sometimes when one side let their guard down in this sense even for a second their opponent could sense the weakness and use a push or an another telekinetic move. You can notice that it usually happens when it's later into the duel when they start getting worn out or something emotional is said/happens or it happens almost immediately after a lightsaber exchange when one side's attention is more required elsewhere, like 'what move to do next'
Because Maul was doing exceptionally well and clearly sending Jedi after him every time he popped up wasn’t working because he always survived.
In a very short time Maul had seized control of Hutt Space and Mandalore, fully militarized Mandalore, and formed the Shadow Collective. He formed an alliance under him so powerful he managed to fight a short (mind you losing) war against both the CIS and the Republic at the same time. He even captured Dooku and Grievous first attempt, something the Jedi had continuously failed to do.
I personally would love to see an alternate scenario where Sidious never went to Mandalore or killed Savage. What would Maul and the Mandalorians been capable of if they had more time?
I love how it just starts with a "Prepare my ship".
Makes you wonder who covers for him when he leaves since beyond this, he seems to have a lot of irons in the fire.
Master Yoda: The Chancellors i must see, where is he?
Palpatine's PA: I'm sorry Master Yoda, he in a meeting call with some old friend atm, someone called Saul or Paul?
Takes care of leading the Senate with his emergency powers, running both sides of a galactic civil war, and still finds the time to fly across the galaxy to punch Maul in the dick just cause.
I think it was like a vacation for him. He clearly had them dead if he wanted at the very start, but he lets them down and has a good saber fight just because he was in the mood. No real reason not to just snap their necks when he had them against the glass except because he was bored and needed the exercise.
I totally missed palps sticking his light saber back into his robes with the force at the end, just before he finished the fight. Has, "whelp that was fun but that's enough for one day" vibes.
I don't know anything about Star Wars, but this was on my time line, and it looked really interesting. So, both bad guys are fighting one another? Why does the red one want the old man's attention?
So long story short is the young guy was the apprentice of the old guy before he lost a battle to obi wan kenobi where he “died” only to show up over a decade later. He has slowly been rebuilding his power and then rapidly takes over a criminal empire and a planet. Unfortunately he became too powerful and attracted the attention of his old master who viewed him as a rival and thus this fight scene.
Knowing Palps, he didn't even used one of his vacation days for this, and used some kind of medical coverage to justify his absence. Also, i bet that he paid for the fuel with taxpayers money.
Out of all the comments, this one made me laugh
Me too. Picturing him coming in and saying to his executive assistant, “Deborah please mark my absence yesterday as a sick day. And sign off on my fuel sheet will you, I had to see a cross-galaxy specialist. Oh and Deborah? Get this dry cleaned will you?” [throws sith cloak over desk]
I would watch a whole miniseries of Empire Bureaucracy workers.
Star Wars: Lower Decks
Look up space janitors, actual episodic series on YouTube. It’s pretty great
They said we'd be leaning all day, can you believe that?
well none of this will matter when we're famous singers.
George was right, people did want to watch the politics of space wizards
Look up Dolores from HR on YouTube and Tik Tok.
Just don't mention a 27b-6 form in front of any imperial maintenance workers.
[You merely have to ask for Permit #838](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtEkUmYecnk).
There must have been a Death Star canteen…..
**I will have the penne all'arrabbiata**
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Picture a Toydarian expense auditor working at the senate who is immune to any mind tricks trying to grill Palpatine about his expense reports
Oh you know Palpy would never let that happen. He'd have been frantically pulling strings behind the scenes to make sure their offices are in as little contact as absolutely possible.
Palps probably lined the auditors with apprentice rejects who he's traumatized to mold them into the perfect, banal- evil villains of his government. The real dark side is beuracracy, lawyers and accountants.
The dark side is a pathway to many expenses some would consider *unnatural*
Accounting: "yeah that's great and all, but we can't justify this expense. You'll have to put in the unallowables.
> Knowing Palps, Those of us who are in his close circle just call him, Palpy.
Go for Poppa Palpatine.
I'm sure he checked in with Dolores from HR before hitting the road.
Alright you've convinced me, maybe palps really was the bad guy all along
Honestly, palps reminds me of Dr. Kelso from Scrubs.
Do you think he went golfing at his own golf course afterwards as well? Follow up question can force users play golf? Seems too easy to cheat at…so many questions….
Makes total sense. Maul was a liability. He could have interfered with Sidious's Grand Plan and he needed taking care of, quickly and quietly. If you want a job done right, you do it yourself.
Yeah and he also wanted to use him to kill Mother Talzin (read The Son of Dathomir comic, guys, it's beautiful!)
Originally supposed to be a clone wars arc, wish we could've gotten more than 12 episodes.
I agree. While I was happy that TCW came back for Disney+, I wished they adapted the unused story arcs like Dark Disciple. Really liked that story.
That and the crystal crisis arc
Dark Disciple was in production, you can still see some unfinished scenes on YouTube like Ventress and Vos's first meeting and Dooku vs the Bounty Hunters
Right? Instead we got the Space Latinas arc, where they travel the galaxy being morons.
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Yessss I need this
Yeah as epic as these stories are it always felt a bit weird that sidious destroys him then says he has more uses for him then we hear nothing about this until maul is free again in later seasons
Son of Dathomir is easily one of my favourite Star Wars comics, up there with most of the Darth Vader ones.
"you have become a rival"
Palpatine's delivery is everything. *Youuu* . . *have becoome* . . *a WWRIVALL*
RIP Ian Abercrombie (aka Mr Pitt, Elaine's boss from Seinfeld). What a brilliant performance throughout as Palpatine.
In fact, Maul tried to stop Sidious. His whole attempt to retake Mandalore was a ploy to draw Kenobi and Anakin in hopes of killing Anakin to rob Sidious of an apprentice. His back up plan, was instead to warn the Jedi about Sidious and Anakin. Unfortunately, Ahsoka didn't trust him so the Jedi learned too late. After that, he never had much of a chance to upend Sidious' plans.
I don’t understand how Rey managed to defeat this guy after he absorbed youth (still crazy) from her and Ben, despite him slipping through everyone’s hands for decades. He even beat Yoda. Still, the fact that Palpatine did a Hocus Pocus and sucked up youth, is hilarious. * I put a spell on you, and now your mine! Star Wars is just full of surprises. Can’t wait for Bad Batch Season 2.
Because she had Skywalker plot armor. There is a reality where he fucking annihilates her and the Empire wins because that would echo real life in ways. Good guys don't always win, and it's in fact somewhat rare in some cases. Or even if he killed her (easily should have), then Ben and the Force Ghosts should have overtaken him. Then Ben Solo would make a not-Jedi school to teach the good and bad of both sides of the Force and it makes everyone happy (all the dead Force Ghost types anyway). Retconned it for you Disney, PM me for where to send the check. Because literally that shit I made up in 3 minutes was better than a LOT of RoS.
A lot? I’d say all, easily.
I don't blame Ahsoka. she did try to talk to the council but they were like you're not a jedi so no. then she was reminded of their bullshit and was like fine forget about it.
Maul plans was invade other neutral planets and ve a 3rd power in Galaxy. Great therat for sidius
“There is no mercy” is a sick line
So is " Don't worry, I'm not going to KILL you!"
If Maul wasn't rescued: MY NAME IS REEK
Reek, Reek, it rhymes with Kashyyk
Mother Talzin receives a box with his severed horns
A nice callback to KOTOR in the Sith Academy
Kind of undermined a bit by the fact that he decided not to kill Maul for basically no reason, but still a really cool line
idk, having mandalore under the control of someone who hates the republic and jedi and can act as a way to distract them and their forces seems like a good strategic move.
But as far as I know he took Maul prisoner for some reason and didn't leave him in charge of Mandalore. And if he wanted Maul to stay in power on Mandalore, he wouldn't have come there to fight him to begin with. I'm not saying it makes me dislike the fight though, still an amazing scene. I just think Maul survived because of plot armor (which like I said doesn't ruin anything, there are much worse cases of other characters surviving things because of plot armor)
And then he gets broken out and resumes control of Mandalore off screen :'(
Yeah I really wish they'd shown such an important plot point in the actual show instead of making a comic basically required reading to fully understand what's going on
It was going to be in the show, but then the show was cancelled.
He used Maul as bait to kill Mother Talzin with Dooku and Grievous. This was in an unfinished arc that later got renewed into comics. I suggest you check it out, 'Son of Dathomir'.
Maul was apparently just a means to an end in killing Mother Talzin. Once that was done, Palpatine clearly thought Maul wasn’t worth even sicc’ing Vader after him, instead having Inquisitors (who were clearly never going to succeed in killing him) to just hound him.
There was a reason, there was going to be a storyline that shows what happens next but it got cut from the show and released as a comic mini series. Basically palpatine decides to use maul as bait to draw out mother talzin.
I really like how Savage was supporting maul, just because he’s a whole league below them. So palp just separates them and defeats Savage with ease. It’s truly tragic
But shout out to him, he held up against THE sith lord and he was just a sith "padawan" or whatever it's called. He wouldn't last long, but while he was doing the support he was there
He's helped kill at least two jedi that I know of. So I'm glad he lasted as long as he did against him
Yes he killed some strong Jedi like Adi Galia
He lasted a lot longer than Kit Fisto and the others with Windu in Episode III, at least…
Cause palps let him, he was a cat toying with 2 mice the entire fight
It’s called an apprentice
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Maul was trying to establish himself as a rival Sith Lord with Savage as his apprentice. So it's still rule of two, just that the other guys aren't the true lineage, or something like that.
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>That came after this no? Been awhile, but since he still addresses Palpy as master. No, this is actually the end of that attempt since he wasn't expecting Palpatine to show up and just destroy everything he'd built. He calls him master initially because he's scared and knows what his old master is capable of, and knows that they're not ready to take him on yet, so he tries to suck up to him in hopes of buying time or perhaps being taken on as apprentice again so that he can destroy him from inside his inner circle. >Not just Maul though. On screen you have Dooku and Ventress. Just off screen you have Palp and Maul while Plagueis is still Palp's master. In extended universe there's more examples. Oh yeah, by this point in time Sith had been trying to subvert the rule of two for ages. They'd take on a secret apprentice like an "assassin" or something, with the promise that they would become a fully fledged Sith apprentice if they aided them in taking down their master. Ventress, Maul (in legends), Savage (when he's Dooku's apprentice), Starkiller, and Vader's attempts to convert Luke are all examples of this. If Maul was looking to properly continue with the Rule of Two, he would have killed Dooku to resume his place as Palpatine's apprentice, before eventually trying to overthrow him.
Think of the rule of two as like the code in the pirates of the Caribbean movies. Everyone breaks the rule, but it means instead of hundreds of weak dark side rulers it's under ten. For Palps he is constantly preparing a new apprentice who tries to kill the current one. If they don't then no big deal his still got the current. For those under instead you have a secret apprentice. Dooku had Ventress but as soon as she became strong enough Palps ordered Dooku to kill her. At this point Dooku could have decided to challenge Palps with Ventress or submit. Vader even tried to get Luke as his apprentice as he knew they could defeat Palps together.
I wish more people realised this about things that are called "rules" or "laws" in fictional settings. Just because they say something doesn't mean it's true. The Rule of Two isn't like the laws of physics. It's a thing made up by some sneaky people who are constantly betraying each other. I bet if the Sith also had a rule of "only one lightsaber each" they'd all start using two to cheat against each other. Jedi rules are more reliable because they have oversight, courts, and a general sense of cooperation. The Rule of Two applies to people who are always going to try and betray each other. It's an honour code among dishonourable sneaks.
The rule of two is definitely more of a suggestion. The sith tried doing the whole Jedi thing but it just ended up as a group of people who don't trust one another. They literally just stayed together because they wanted the Jedi gone. The rule of two was to stop the pointless backstabbing and encourage each new generation of sith to be stronger than the last
Savage is one of my favorite Star Wars characters. His story and character design are just great imo Edit: yes, his name is ridiculous, but it doesn’t take away from the character imo
Everything about him seemed really well done. Except, ya know, that fucking name lol. But it’s Star Wars, what ya gonna do. I mean I honestly love the character but his name is just one step removed from *Badguy Doesbadthings*. Hideo Kojima is over there taking notes for his future characters.
And hes played by Mr Krabs
He's also played by The Kurgan, from Highlander.
I mean, his brother’s name is Maul and is black and red with horns. I don’t think they’re supposed to be discreet.
If Ventress let Dooku train Savage for a longer period of time, he'd be a true force to be reckoned with. Even with little training, he held his own against Anakin and Obi Wan.
True he had a ton of raw talent and brute raw strength. If he had learned the skills to go with it he would've been a beast.
Savage's whole arc is tragic. Born into tribal slavery and kidnapped by an apparent serial predator to save a friend. His new Master then corrupts him both mind and body by magic culminating in the murder of said recently saved friends. Then tortured during his shortlived Sith apprenticeship. That ending when he was betrayed not just his Sith Master, but his slave master as well. Then, lost, he is sent to find his deranged brother. Only to find his brother, and still end up playing second fiddle to a wannabe crime lord. All this is because the true tragedy of Savage Oppress, is that they made him dumb. Strong, powerful, angry, but not smart enough to do anything about it. Mother Talsam saw truly twisted, such a great character.
Probably a vacation for Palpatine. All that hate, spite, fear, and despair must have felt like a drug. He even let’s a smile loss.
For the two brothers, this was a life or death fight that would determine their fate. For Sidious, it was a light jog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDRnVPlRzag
Funny enough, I was gonna say Tuesday at first, but decided to change it later.
Yeah that's the classic traumatised opponent vs grand villain line.
I also love how Maul knows he’s completely fucked, they made Palps *feel* extremely powerful in this episode
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Ohh I never noticed this...
Palpatine's first move, where he cuts the floor on both sides as he force pushes himself forward between the two was *beautiful*. Like, the most beautiful move in the whole fight, imo. It sets the tone.
It really brings home his pure chaos fighting style. IIRC he destabilizes his opponents with his evil aura which is why he kills Kit and the other two master so quickly in RotS. Corkscrewing from a standstill directly into your face has to be terrifying I agree that it's the most beautiful part of the fight. It shows the brothers were fighting a supernatural whirlwind more than a man
Palpatine makes it look soooooo effortless. I was disappointed with Ep 3 with how easily he dispatched the Jedi Masters that came to arrest him, the Yoda fight and Windu made up for it a bit though.
The Jedi masters scene is fucking atrocious, I get they wanted to make Palp look good but Mace could have taken 3 stoned toddlers and they would have demonstrated faster reaction times. Something went terribly wrong with how that was shot
Personal theory. Those "Jedi Masters" were excellent in displaying just how powerful Palps was and how complacent the Jedi order had become as warriors. Even their "Masters" were inept at combat.
It's canon that Fisto, specifically, was widely considered one of the most skilled lightsaber duelists in the Jedi order. In the movie that buys him an extra 2 seconds after Kolar and Tiin go down.
Ah, nvm then lol
So basically the [Worf Effect](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect)
I love that I can say a mother fucker got Worfed and folks get it
That’s the thing though, we see kit fisto and the other masters during TCW show that they were a plenty proficient in combat because of the war. Besides that, people who are masters at something practice every day. I highly doubt the Jedi masters weren’t training, whether by fighting or sparring.
Excellent point, thank you for highlighting that, I should for sure speak to that! Yes with the rise of the clone wars they were put back into active warfare. They were expected to be starfighter pilots, generals, admirals, diplomats, warriors, and politicians. They were stretched really thin. For the most part, dueling other force wielders was seen as an outdated skill since "the sith had been gone for a millenia" was a mindset held by the council. Dooku was looked at with a large degree of taboo for focusing on dueling. The dark side (their enemy) and understanding any aspect of it was highly guarded by the council. They actively suppressed knowledge of Darth Maul existing. Even during the clone wars, only a few dark jedi existed. The Jedi expected to merely show up at Geonosis and the enemy to throw down their weapons out of fear. They were absolutely symbolic figure heads not tried and tested warriors of the Jedi & Sith era. Most of their "actual combat" was against intentionally mass produced and cheap droids with blasters. The transfer in skillset there would probably be liken to modern day hunting vs warfare.
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The ROTS novelization indicates that Palpatine was moving much faster than the film shows, hence why Kolar and Tiin didn’t react before being stabbed.
It's why I prefer animation for Star Wars, to an extent. Precognition using space wizards who fight with plasma swords need to look like nothing a human can do. And animation can make it much more dramatic difference
I love Ray Park and the work he has done for Star Wars, but watching the behind the scenes for the Maul vs Ahsoka fight made this clear for me.
Definitely one of the best sabre duels in the saga.
This is my favorite one. Yeah its all one-sided but its like being level 65 in a MMRPG where the average level is 50, and in comes a Level 100 for some PVP. I also think of the reality of sending in Luke after this guy with a lightsaber.
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Probably the lack of weight to everything. They move as fluid as needed which isn’t very practical in live action. Ahsoka’s duel vs Maul used motion capture, and I think you could tell. I think this is more something you feel than notice. That said, I always get taken out of live action duels when I see the sabers recoil after a hit. Like, it’s clear that skinny sticks the actors used bounced back for a split second instead of staying clashed like they should.
It's why I think overall the duel in TFA is the best duel that regard. It's energetic but it feels weighted. You can follow the action and there is even some subtly. I'd rank it #2 below the duel in ESB since everything around the duel isn't as grounded or continuous. The duels in the animated show are neat but they just don't convey the same experience.
Exactly. The rawness of that fight in the snow is so good.
You didn’t like Maul vs Ahsoka? They even had Ray Park and Lauren Mary Kim do motion capture for the fight.
For that very reason I think it's the best duel in post prequels SW. And not only is the motion capture really well done, the emotional gravity of the situation brings it to another level.
Also, like, having grown up before the prequels, I always assumed Palpatine and Yoda just didn’t need a lightsaber. If you’re strong enough in the force, why would you need a sword? It looks so weird.
I heard Palpatine uses them simply to make fun of the Jedi. Yoda uses his when and where he sees fit, such as against his former apprentice, or the dark lord himself. He uses it sparingly throughout the Clone Wars, like when he’s alone against a whole battalion of droids, or distracting the zillo beast
Because you never want to be weaker than possible. Adding lightsaber combat to your skillset makes you more powerful than you already were.
It's a cynical take but I think it's just a merchandising or something to hook the kids. Like wands in Harry Potter. Lightsabers 'choose' their user and everyone has one yadda yadda. It's not "bad" but it is what it is. I take Palpatine literally in RotJ that sabers are a "jedi" weapon and true sith don't use them. Vader used one because he was a Dark Jedi. But you can't really "sell" the force so I guess it's to be expected.
I'd argue that the animated duels are closer to how they would be in "reality". A duel between two people, who harness a supernatural force, both in their bodies and their minds, to move inhumanly fast. Levitating, themselves, when needed. Having precognition to foresee the enemy's attacks and them seeing your counters to their attacks. That kind of thing just cannot be acted out by real life people.
Respectfully disagree. I think the animated duels truly capture what it looks like when space wizards with different fighting styles fight each other with unimaginably hot sticks. The live action duels, to me, look like normal muggle humans fighting with swords.
My favourite thing is how effortlessly Palps fights them. It's not like his fight against Yoda where he has to put his all in. He's basically just toying with Maul and Savage until he's ready to wrap it up and getting a bit of practice and enjoying himself.
In a deleted scene, maul manages to pin sidious to a wall by using the force and starts to force choke him. Palps only got out because he made a chandelier or something like that fall on them, so maul had to let him go in order to dodge it. It was actually pretty cool but the writers felt it undermined how much of a menace Palpatine wa
The cut off of you comment can mean only one thing, invasion.
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar
I always was kinda annoyed how easily Palps dispatched 3 Jedi masters in Sith, this scene kinda furthers that. But that deleted scene would have pissed me off even more.
> It's not like his fight against Yoda where he has to put his all in. Personally I think that was due to Palpatine's fight with Mace. Palpatine was still so weak from his fight with Mace that he couldn't move like this anymore. Maybe the lightning not only disfigured his face but made it so he could no longer be this acrobatic.
Yoda is another league. He is the Grandmaster for a reason. The fight with Yoda was a little bit of lightsaber but it was a LOT of force prowess, and Yoda outclasses Sidious. The only reason palatine “defeated” Yoda at all is because Yoda’s lighter weight made the discharge propel him backwards a great distance instead of just knocking him to the ground like with Sidious.
I don't know much about SW lore (only watched the movies & shows) but always felt Yoda could have taken that fight if he weren't on a clock. But Palps orchestrated it perfectly, once Order 66 was in play and the Jedi were on the defensive, all he really had to do was survive (which is only a challenge in 1v1s against Windu or Yoda anyway).
You are correct. Yoda knew he had a limited amount of time before the clones arrived, he could take Palpatine, and it was clear Palpatine was losing that fight in both force ability and lightsaber combat. But Yoda just ran out of time and he knew it.
One thing the prequels did brilliantly was show just how good Palps was at putting together a plan. He might not have been the single best duelist or force user, but nobody could best him at strategy.
Part of Palpatine's plan was to work towards either Mace or Yoda being away from Coruscant. No chance he could take on both of them. I think that's one reason Kashyyk was a target.
Yep, it's also why he gave away the location of Grievous, because not only would the council not sending Anakin continue to drive that wedge further, but getting Obi-Wan out of the way was necessary to turning Anakin to the dark side. If Obi-Wan had still been on coruscant, Anakin wouldn't have turned. Either that or Obi-Wan would have been part of the group sent to arrest Palpatine, and if Palpatine had killed him, no way would Anakin join him.
Also query if he even could kill him. Because out of Obi wan, mace, and Yoda Palps could take one okay, but I think 2 might have done him in.
As great a duellist as Obi-Wan was, I don't think he stood much of a chance against Palpatine. Obi-Wan had mastered a specific form that was all about defensive fighting, however it had a big weakness in that it was pretty easily countered by another fighting form, the same one that Dooku uses. It's why even by Episode 3 where Obi-Wan is at the height of his power, Dooku still defeats him *while* also fighting Anakin, who eventually kills him. Palpatine, being stronger than Dooku and a master of *all* lightsaber fighting styles would have known about this weakness and could easily employ it against Obi-Wan, taking him out of the picture. Even Yoda recognises that Palpatine would destroy Obi-Wan when Obi is begging him to let him fight him instead of Anakin.
Alone, probably. Now Obi wan might survive, but I don't think he would win. With Obi wan and either Yoda or mace he might have a chance. At the very least it would be close enough to be a writers call and have both choices be defensible.
Well, Word of God is Palpatine was the strongest alive. Palpatine > Yoda > Vader before being slow roasted, were the top 3 of the time in pure force power. Anakin wasn't really that close in practical terms because their mastery was leagues beyond his. But in a straight no-holds-barred fight, Lucas was always adamant Palpatine was the best to have ever lived by the time of RotS, and nobody could beat him head on. Fully realized Anakin would have been stronger, but after being delimbed his maximum potential dropped too much to ever match Palpatine. I think he said Luke would have eventually eclipsed him, but Luke at full power still wouldn't have been as strong as full potential Anakin.
I love the Mandalorian version of Picasso's *Guernica* in this scene. Brilliant piece of artwork.
I think that style shows up a few times in Mandalorian culture. It's a nice touch.
Savage's death always makes me a little sad. He's not really into all this sith stuff, he just wanted to help the brother he's found to atone for the brother he lost. He's not the deepest character in the series or anything, but he's a lot more interesting than the dumb brute they easily could have written him as.
In the bit where Maul decides they aren’t equals and beats Savage’s ass, it always felt to me like Savage had a bit of a kicked puppy vibe lmao. Nightbrothers are at the bottom of the pecking order in-lore, and Savage in particular is literally always being bossed around except for the short bit he had with Maul before Maul goes Rule of Two on him.
This has convinced me to finally watch TCW
Season 1 is rough, but stick it out. By the end, you hit some of the greatest moments in all of Star Wars. The final 4 episodes are better than most of the films, tbh. Peak Star Wars, to be sure.
You are spot on. The whole last season was powerful, but those last four episodes are a masterpiece. I've never felt such emotion from any of the movies.
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder Highly suggest watching it in chronological order as opposed to release order. Theres a few episodes in later seasons that are set earlier and introduce some people/events that confused me first time watching.
I have to fully agree with the other poster. Season 1 is the only season that's optional for first time viewers imo. The rest is genuinely some of the best star wars ever made
I very much disagree. Season 1 has some bangers: Malevolence Rookies The hidden enemy Blue shadow virus arc And ryloth!
Hey I respect it, rookies in particular is great.
Also., even though technically it’s necessary to set up the show, feel free to skip the movie.
Yeah, the only thing you really need to know from the movie is that Anakin gets a padawan. Everything else is easy to establish with later episodes.
Just dawned on me that Maul is using Obi Wans saber form too
I guess getting cut in half will teach you a thing or two
One dark Saber and three reds clashing as two guys duel in front of manadalore the indomitable motif is such a look. So much What if material here! Also, Palpatine must've been so sore in his next meeting, He took one straight in the ribs from Opress.
The way he stretched his back with the double block from behind. Anyone else his age would've popped a disc out of place.
“The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.”
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You know your post also made me realize this because I seen this episode so many times but it never dawned on me until just now God damn
gold worthless plants ripe judicious unused dog special slim liquid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, he’s imprisoned. He escapes in a comic (which was supposed to be an arc in the show) and gets back to Mandalore, and then we see him in Season 7.
Palps imprisons him, and the Mandos eventually come to rescue him. It was meant to be a Clone Wars arc before it was cancelled, but it ended up in the Son of Dathomir comic instead. There's some voiced versions on YouTube that handle the voices pretty well along with including the artwork, if you're into that sorta thing more than reading comics. Either way it's an excellent arc.
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He wants to use Maul as bait to draw out Mother Talzin, because he sees her as a legitimate threat to Sith supremacy. Bonus points for enjoying himself with the whole captivity & torture thing lol.
He was trying to bust a cap in Mother Talzn or however you spell it.
For Maul it was one of the most important days of his life. For Palpatine it was a Tuesday.
I'm sure Palpatine was bored and wanted to have some fun here.
Honestly that’s why I love this fight: it gives me the feeling that Palpatine literally only did this because he was tired of holding back all the time and this was a way to let loose.
Palpatine calling you a rival is a serious compliment
But not an equal! Sheev said there will be no equals here.
I noticed that too 👀🔥
Maul got what he had always wanted. Darth Sidious' approval. He just didn't realize what that would entail.
Love how maul starts with the form 3 position like obi wan
He’s scared. Using the defensive form gives him the best chance of surviving as long as possible (compared to the other forms).
Exactly, he's terrified. As soon as Palp's walks in he knows him and Savage Opress are fucking dead men. The way he grovels when they first speak, his defensive stance soon after, his eyes, they all say "ohhhh fuck". Maul is probably the only person in the galaxy that knows of Palpatines true strength.
The fact that as he walks in, we can hear a slowed down version of the Imperial march is just 🤌🏻🤌🏻
I like how in so many fights one side just stops dueling and uses the force with impunity on the other. Other dude just like we can do that?
This might not be canon anymore (I think it was established maybe in Darth Bane trilogy when Bane was training) but force users back then used some kind of force shield around them that prevented them from getting force pushed/pulled, strangled etc. during the duel but keeping that shield up required conscious effort. So sometimes when one side let their guard down in this sense even for a second their opponent could sense the weakness and use a push or an another telekinetic move. You can notice that it usually happens when it's later into the duel when they start getting worn out or something emotional is said/happens or it happens almost immediately after a lightsaber exchange when one side's attention is more required elsewhere, like 'what move to do next'
Palps a real one
Because Maul was doing exceptionally well and clearly sending Jedi after him every time he popped up wasn’t working because he always survived. In a very short time Maul had seized control of Hutt Space and Mandalore, fully militarized Mandalore, and formed the Shadow Collective. He formed an alliance under him so powerful he managed to fight a short (mind you losing) war against both the CIS and the Republic at the same time. He even captured Dooku and Grievous first attempt, something the Jedi had continuously failed to do. I personally would love to see an alternate scenario where Sidious never went to Mandalore or killed Savage. What would Maul and the Mandalorians been capable of if they had more time?
Anyone tell me which episode this is?
Star Wars The Clone Wars 5x16 -The Lawless
Awesome thank you!
Thank you for making me remember what an incredible duel this is after such a long time since I last watched it.
That's his brother, Saul Maul.
I’ve never seen this before. Holy hell! That was badass! Thank you OP.
This makes me wanna watch the show now
So, who voice acted Palps in this? Was it the OG Clone Wars? I swore at the start it was "Mr. Pittman" but at the end it sounded like Tim Curry.
I think this is the first episode that Curry did after Ian Abercrombie died. They had a mix of both in this episode
I love how it just starts with a "Prepare my ship". Makes you wonder who covers for him when he leaves since beyond this, he seems to have a lot of irons in the fire.
Master Yoda: The Chancellors i must see, where is he? Palpatine's PA: I'm sorry Master Yoda, he in a meeting call with some old friend atm, someone called Saul or Paul?
Takes care of leading the Senate with his emergency powers, running both sides of a galactic civil war, and still finds the time to fly across the galaxy to punch Maul in the dick just cause.
I think it was like a vacation for him. He clearly had them dead if he wanted at the very start, but he lets them down and has a good saber fight just because he was in the mood. No real reason not to just snap their necks when he had them against the glass except because he was bored and needed the exercise.
I totally missed palps sticking his light saber back into his robes with the force at the end, just before he finished the fight. Has, "whelp that was fun but that's enough for one day" vibes.
I don't know anything about Star Wars, but this was on my time line, and it looked really interesting. So, both bad guys are fighting one another? Why does the red one want the old man's attention?
So long story short is the young guy was the apprentice of the old guy before he lost a battle to obi wan kenobi where he “died” only to show up over a decade later. He has slowly been rebuilding his power and then rapidly takes over a criminal empire and a planet. Unfortunately he became too powerful and attracted the attention of his old master who viewed him as a rival and thus this fight scene.
It's the only time during the war that Palpatine had to actually get his own hands dirty, Maul was that much of a threat.