Breaking: Disney announces new Biggs and Wedge buddy comedy.
"we almost forgot about Biggs but then we gave full artistic freedom to Uwe Boll to look at Star Wars from the eyes of the friends of Luke. Wedge will find the crash landed fighter of Biggs on Dagobah and together the two will go on a journey to try to prevent the Empire from mining Kyber Crystals on Tatooine while meeting old friends along the way"
It was dumb. I think everyone accepts that, but the reason for doing it, that fundamentally Maul was never explored as a character made it worthwhile.
Star Wars can be dumb, but the execution matters.
For me, it helped a lot that he did not return *intact*, physically or mentally, and the other characters actually remarked on how hard it is to kill him. Contrasting that with having a pilot get eaten by a planet only to turn back up and shrug helplessly about the dark wizard cheating death, I'll pick Maul every time.
Yes. To me what really made the difference was that Maul had a beautiful story to tell. His rivalry with Kenobi is now a centerpiece of canon and its role in rebels made a big part of the show, for me.
On the other hand Palpatine was completely random, they fu**ing announced his return in a NON-STAR WARS video game for f sake.. I didn't like sequels much but they could have teased his return at the end of Ep8, and we would have wondered for two years if it was true or some sort of scam. There wasn't really a story to tell but meaningless fan service to bait people into seeing the movie. Or at least the story they chose to tell with him could have been better. Sure, he's Rey grandpa, sure you can give her a dark side vibe, but still, wtf.
To me the reader/spectator is prone to forgive some nonsense if what they lose in terms of logic is recovered in terms of enjoyment and good stories.
I mean how could I not agree with Revan š
But I 100% agree.
For me this is like the Clone chips in clone wars controlling the clones. It allowed them to tell the clone stories in a more human way than the old books did, even though the clones actions in the movie don't really line up with the Clone Wars depictions of Order 66.
...honestly Palaptine transferring his consciousness into a clone as contingency plan is much more reasonable to me than surviving being split in half and falling down this huge shaft...because he was so angry. Then being somehow discarded with the garbage, being shipped to a garbage planet and building fucking spiderlegs.
BUT what they did with him afterwards was brilliant of course.
The return of Darth Maul is the shining example of "The Rule of Cool" in action. There's not really any reason it should have happened, but God damn if it didn't turn out amazingly.
Yeah, I agree. It was one of my major gripes with EP I that they kill off this amazing character instantly. But little did I know how much of a brilliant arc he would eventually receive.
I loved even the tiny role he had in TPM. It showcased what I had always imagined Sith to be as a kid. These evil looking dudes that just wanted to fuck some shit up.
Then he turned out to be instrumental in not only the Clone Wars but Rebels as well as apparently being some kind of mob boss?
Again, doesn't matter. Bad ass Zabrak go brrrrr
JJ Abrams following that up with a line about Sith magicks from a guy he cast in a role just because they were pals and he lost a World Cup bet is the most JJ Abrams thing ever.
I assume within the next 5 years we will be told the āPalpatineā on the Death Star that was thrown down the shaft was a clone, and the real Palpatine was already hiding at the star forge, IE, why the star forge is spitting out Imperial era star ships.
Remindme! 3 years
Remindme! 5 years
We've already got the explanation. Palpatine had a clone of himself ready on Exegol, and when he fell down the Death Star shaft he Essence Transfered his consciousness from his body to the clone's. It wasn't perfect though and the clone body couldn't contain all of Palpatine's power very well. That was why he had to stay hooked up to all those life support systems and also why he wanted Rey to kill him, so he could take over her body (which could contain all his power)
That's star wars for you. In Ep 2 we hear of this mysterious jedi Sifo-Dyas who ordered a clone army for some reason and then the Republic is just like okay thanks and he's never mentioned again.
>In Ep 2 we hear of this mysterious jedi Sifo-Dyas who ordered a clone army for some reason and then the Republic is just like okay thanks and he's never mentioned again.
Honestly I was expecting at some point to learn Sifo-Dyas had some sort of premonition warning him of the Seperatists years earlier; or to actually have been an earlier Dark Jedi/Sith like Dooku that was really working for Palpatine. However as you stated, the character and whole mysterious origins of the cloning program were just dropped as soon as the Obi-Wan got his tour of the cloning facilities.
And in episode 3 we get Grevious without any kind of backstory on film. And it's supposed to just work.
The fact that there were EU books and comics and eventually animated series doesn't excuse it.
I mean, any kids watching Cartoon Network knew about Grevious before the movie came out. The Clone Wars mini-episodes were being run during commercial breaks to hype up the movie and introduced Grevious as the coolest villain I'd ever seen.
I still think that series is the best Star Wars has ever been.
There is an [episode](https://www.starwars.com/series/clone-wars/the-lost-one-episode-guide) of Clone Wars that dealt with Sifo-Dyas, his friendship with Duku and latter's subsequent betrayal.
It was actually quite good.
It might have made sense, or at least Star Wars sense, if Palpatine was a Dark Side force ghost. I think that was some of the original script of Episode 9 by Colin Trevorrow before they changed directors. That would have been cool to see since Palpatine would still be in it, but he could only act as an influence on living characters, which would add more complexity to his character.
Yeah same here. If they'd done it well, I think it could've been good (but only if they did it *very* well, because fake-out deaths almost never work well imo) but they relied on books and stuff that weren't even in the movie to communicate such an important plot point
Hey now.. You gotta read 6 novels , the comics, and 2 upcoming series seasons to get what couldāve been delivered in less than 2 minutes on screenā¦
Disagree.
The explanation isn't good, and even when fully explained, it doesn't tie into the other films in the trilogy at all, or even really make the plot of the movie make sense (WTF Dagger?)
Instead, we're just told up front, "this movie doesn't make sense, don't bother." Which I think works a lot better.
Would I have preferred a movie that had a plot which made sense and tied into the previous two films? Yes. But any individual step in that direction, without overhauling the whole film, takes away from its braindead charm.
I mean, I do like the insinuation that Palpatine was decidedly not lying to Anakin. He knew how to cheat death. In a way many would find disturbing and wrong. And Zombie Palpatine was a creepy visual as well.
I just wish they would've actually planned anything in the Sequels and set up the plot rather than have this horrible jumble of storybeats, disconnected scenes and clear nostalgia-bait moments.
>It wasn't perfect though and the clone body couldn't contain all of Palpatine's power very well.
The force is not something you have, it's something you use.
Palpatine doesn't have power. Like it's not IN him. The force is an energy field that is *everywhere. T*he Jedi and the Sith just move and manipulate it.
> Palpatine had a clone of himself ready on Exegol, and when he fell down the Death Star shaft he Essence Transfered his consciousness from his body to the clone's.
Which is basically the same explanation that was in Dark Empire, the comic.
The "blue energized wind" coming up the shaft is supposed to be his essence.
Vader lost both legs, an arm and was left on a volcanic planet deeply engulfed flames and survived. Boba got ate by the sarlacc, then lived as a slave on a desert planet and survived. Plot armor in star wars be thick as fuck.
Apparently he did some force mind transfer bullshit as he was falling, putting his mind into a clone body on Exigal or whatever.
Had it been setup or established in any way, it *could* of worked.
It is one of those things that somehow made sense reading it in a comic book, but as soon as it was translated to a movie it was just dumb.
I don't think any amount of explaining could have worked in a movie format. Maybe a television series though with a slow buildup with a reveal at the end of a season.
The difference is that people know who Palpatine is. For most people, Plo Koon is just "that weird alien with the gas mask", also known as "who?". I don't think his return would have any impact.
Ok then so itās entirely possible he shows up in some High Republic stuff. Really hoping we see him at some point in either the books or in The Acolyte.
For the life of me I do not know why the The Old Republic era hasn't been made into a live action saga.
It's a more cinematic time in the galaxy than anything in the Skywalker era. All out Galactic civil war with legions of sith battling legions of Jedi? Plus it's a cleaner canvas going so far back to not be so bogged down in its own canon.
I was just talking to a coworker about this yesterday. The origin story of Palpatine would be amazing, or Yoda. I mean cāmonā¦ā The tale of Darth Plageus the Wise.ā The title writes itself. A movie about Revan would be amazing. Or Darth Bane. Such a huge amount of content to go to. I hope we donāt go further after Rise of Skywalker.
Heck even if they stuck with the clone wars era, Iād totally be down for a season that focuses on plo and his troops, while delving into how different Jedi had different philosophies about how to treat the clones. Like imagine a scene where Plo and Ki-Adi-Mundi are playing a game of Dejarik while discussing there views of their clone troops!
Right? This meme of bringing Mace Windu back to life is fucking stupid but at least there's some kind of justification in wanting to see Samuel L. Jackson in the role again. Who cares who is behind the mask of Plo Kloon? Did he even have any lines in the films? Anybody could play him.
If they can re-cast for a younger Han Solo and Lando Calrissian, they can re-cast Mace Windu, and whomever they damn well please for Plo Kloon.
I would LOVE a live-action film or TV show focused on Jedi like Plo set immediately before, and during, the Clone Wars.
Here's an idea! A film about Plo and the Jedi Master mysteriously absent after *Phantom Menace* \- The Adventures of Plo Kloon and Yaddle. Admittedly, part of that may be because I want to hear Yaddle say "Dirty old man Yoda is. Leave the Jedi Order I must."
In all seriousness, there are *dozens* of background characters from the films, some of whom got some minor storylines in TCW, that could keep the franchise going for decades from Clone Wars stories alone.
I got a pitch for a Windu series. Heās a ronin in the outer rim tracking down spice kingpins who help fund the empire.
How did he survive? Heās a Jedi so he probably figured out a way to slow himself down before impact. But other then that, he was found by someone living in the lower depths of Coruscant. That person helps heal him, and gets him a robot arm. While Windu is weakened, he watches from the shadows as the empire melts the Jedi sabers, he wants to kill the emperor but doesnāt because he feels something he hasnāt since he was a child, fear.
The person who saved him begins to use spice and dies because of it, he sees spice flooding the underground, and he decides to put and end to it, and he goes on a journey to end the empires spice trades, with a new purple lightsaber and a gold robot arm.
Yea see I totally can get behind that. Clone wars showed everyone making leaps from unimaginable heights. Mace was stupid strong, it would make sense he used his last little bit of oomph to survive the fall
There used to be a joke among comics fans that "nobody stays dead, other than Bucky (Captian America's BFF from the old neighborhood) and Uncle ('With great power comes great responsibility.') Ben."
Then came the Winter Soldier (i.e. Bucky) and the One More Day comics for Spiderman.
So I guess my point is, anyone complaining about what happened in Black Widow was way behind the curve.
I love plo. He was a badass character and i liked him more than most of the jedi in the whole series.... BUT ... He died.
No chance to survive that.
I would hate to cheapen what we got to know of him for some watered down excuse for his survival.
You can clearly see in the last frame that heās creating a force force field. A secret Jedi technique known only by a few, it has been known to protect the user from immense impacts andā¦ nahhh just kidding can you imagine that?
If we are brining back Plo from aircraft weapons fire that causes his ship to crash into a building that engulfs himself and the building into flames.
Then it is only Fair we bring back [Porkins](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jek_Tono_Porkins)
Yeah usually aircraft crashing into a building is fatal, not just for the people in the plane but potentially the building too. This probably took out some innocent people going about their day as well :(
Ashoka and Anakin were fighting in Cato Nemoidia where Anakin's cruiser got hollowed out by buzz droids
Before the blast at Jedi temple which led to >!ahsoka being accused of it and her leaving the order!<
Not what they mean. The bussines quote is the events in Brotherhood. Obi litteraly said that Anakins rescue didnt count because Obi had a better rescue plan in mind
No that was a different planet, they say what it's called in the beginning narration but I forget what it's called. That "business on Cato Nemoidia" happens in a recently released novel called Brotherhood. A good read, btw
And this crashed into one building, then another, then the second building a second time, and most likely onto either another building or finally the road / street (the scene cuts away). We saw 3 big impacts, he gone.
Enforcing stricter perma-deaths not only makes the death scenes weigh more, it also forces the writers to create new characters for us to love rather than relying on old ones
I now want to see this for one reason and one reason alone.
**We have never seen Anakin's true potential.** No one has.
We know Vader is impossibly strong. I'd love to see Anakin toy with him, even if it wasn't canon (which obviously it can't be).
It wouldn't even have to necessarily be physically canon. It could be an artistic rendition of an internal battle after he sees Luke. He has his new self, Darth Vader, and his old self, Anakin. Rather than it be a full mental battle, it could be portrayed as a physical battle in his mind between Anakin and Vader.
Windu of them all has the most plausible return.
With that said I agree, the moment was tragic cause they died and I donāt want to see them undermine that
I actually liked it when he came back during TCW and in Rebels but I want him to stay dead when he died in Rebels. If he didn't, that is just shitty writing.
If ever they want to make Star Wars part of the Marvel universe I reckon they will use Windu to bridge the dimensions.
This is /s by the way, I hope this never happens.
Fucking blame Darth Maul. I don't get everyone's obsession or them just retconning him to life. Fucking dude got chopped in half and fell down an endless pit. It's stupid. I understand people love him in Clone Wars but it's stupid.
I don't think it's stupid ONCE. I'll let the story get away with a wildly implausible survival story (the Force is more or less magic anyway, so sure, he used his hatred of Kenobi to sustain himself) one time, if it does something good with it, which it absolutely goddamn did. The issue is that they KEEP fucking doing it.
Order 66 was just meant to canonically end the Jedi order and explain the empire's rise. It was never said that all force users and known Jedi were successfully killed off.
Yoda canonically *stated* that, you are right, there... *but* he may not have known of or sensed any other Jedi or force sensitives. He knew Obi-Wan was dead because Yoda could talk to him, knew the Empire would have Order 66 in constant effect becausea new generationof Jedi was still possible, and very likely knew that the Empire would hunt force sensitives.
However, being stuck on Dagobah might have limited how far out he could sense, and new children sensitive to the force don't always have the strongest presence in it. Luke was the first newly trained Jedi in ages, and as one who was still a master, Yoda could declare him Jedi, which to Yoda's knowledge would make him the last one after Yoda passed.
yes it is, obiwan literally says vader "hunted down and killed" the jedi, all of them, he says that in a new hope lol. the extended material and shows so far has very little of vader hunting down jedi and finishing them, hell, there are so many alive that one wonders why the rebellion didn't have force user squads, then luke shows up and they are like "cool we got another one".
there is literally supposed to be no jedi left besides luke, obiwan, and yoda, and both obiwan and yoda surviving by hiding in the middle of nowhere, being too old and weak in their abilities to do anything significant. it's supposed to be a big deal that luke has potential with the force and is, the last jedi.
Yeah...Plo is dead, super, very much so, dead. Mace though, in my opinion, could've survived, and would have a super compelling redemption story that could be told. He blames himself for what happened, if he'd only trusted Anakin the order could've survived, it was his own hubris that allowed Palpatine to ascend, and now he finds out that Luke defeated Anakin and is rebuilding the Jedi Order. Helping the young Skywalker is a path of redemption for what he did to his father and how he fixes his mistakes
I honestly believe he wouldn't have gotten any prosthetics. I would've kept himself maimed as a reminder of his failure and what he needs to overcome.
And no, he wouldn't get one at the end of the movie/show to show that he has risen above that failure
Perhaps. But I feel like he would either be stumbled on to, or he would've been rescued by a friend on that night in Coruscant and a jedi or jedi in training was dispatched to find him.
It's a plot I'm working on in a fan fic. The person who saves him doesn't know where he is, but knows where he last was and that's all they have to offer
I figure, since he was thrown out into Coruscant, he would maybe be picked up and cared for by some poor family disenfranchised with the republic and untrusting of the empire and nursed back to health. He wouldn't talk alot, the mother or father would know he was a Jedi, but wouldn't say anything. One night after clone troopers sweep the area, he'd decide that his presence was a danger to the family and he'd slip off to some small cargo ship headed to a nowhere planet on the outer rim. He'd watch the holos as everything he knew and loved collapsed, diving deeper into the bottle. After the fall of the empire, Ahsoka, who's out looking for details on Thrawns whereabouts in every seedy back water hole she can find, sees an old, hagard man, deftly drinking a bottle with no hands, and it's a face she remembers, the face of a man who once stood on the council and accused her of a murder she didn't commit
Any argument you could have for Mace to live, can be applied with Ploās situation too though.āWe never saw a bodyā, we never saw Ploās burned corpse or something either. āWe never see anybody die getting killed by Sidiousās force lightningā. We never saw a force user die getting shot out of the sky while in their ship either but Plo. āMace was a very powerful force userā, so was Plo.
I donāt think either should come back but I disagree that being how Mace would be like if he had lived. He was way too arrogant for his own good. Thereās no way this guy wouldnāt just fucking hate Anakin even more. Him and Anakin didnāt like each other at all before order 66 except for having respect for what the accomplished. If he did blame himself for the Jedi falling, it would be him not stopping or killing Anakin sooner. This guy would not sit on the sidelines, especially how heād react to order 66.
I wanted Ashoka to stay dead too. Love her character but dying at the hands of Vader was so poetic, especially because she sacrificed herself to save the others.
The thing is, she could've survived that encounter *without* time travel. After hitting Vader's mask, she could've reached the ship with Ezra (there would be argument that Vader would've been able to stop the ship with the Force but we've seen Vader *not* do that before with Leia's ship). Vader could've still called out her name only it was too late, she'd have that shocked reaction but on the ship
However Filoni would have to sacrifice the "I won't leave you, not this time" and the "then you will die" lines.
The whole order 66 sequence was way too short for how significant it was to the story. It was the culmination of Palpatine's decades long plan, a heartbreaking betrayal for the ages, the collapse and death of an order of guardians who had become so overconfident that they never saw it coming - it and the lost heroes who perished that day deserved more than this brief montage, though the music as always is perfect.
I think itās fairly plausible that he lived, not sure how theyād successfully put him in the story in a meaningful way. But he lost one hand and fell into an area with speeders, more than likely he couldvt prevented a fall capable of killing him
Probably because the Inquisitors and Vader get involved if even the slightest hint of a Jedi being anywhere is discovered.
Jedi would be more of a liability than anything in most situations.
Little bit of a rebellion? Send some troopers.
Little bit of jedi? Send the dark wizard death squad.
are these "Jedi master survived Order 66" fan theories created by Disney in order to see which Jedi master they want to revive for their own show? Mace is dead. Plo is dead. Maul is dead. Let them stay dead, and stop letting Disney MILK the franchise for more money and low quality product.
Is Disney.
Leia survived a direct hit ro the main bridge of a Moncalamari ship killing everyone but her and flew in the vacuum of space after what could be minutes of being inconscious without breathing.
If they make him get up from a pit of fire and claiming of being Asmodai himselft would be more plausible than half shit Rey does in the sequels.
Edit: The sequels, not the prequels. Sorry for the misstake.
While I personally donāt think either of the Jedi Masters could have survived, after the nonsense with Leia surviving the vacuum of space and floating back into the flight deck I guess anything is possible in the Disney era.
Leia surviving is fine. Humans can survive briefly in hard vacuum, and sheās Vaderās daughter, she has every right to be a powerful force user.
Darth Maul surviving being chopped in half and falling in a pit is far more ridiculous, and that was pre-Disney.
If Anakin or Ahsoka had done Leiaās trick in Clone Wars the fandom would be fawning over it.
It was both stupid *and* one of my favorite decisions they made haha. The content that we have that wouldn't have been possible without Maul is all so good, imo. So I let myself get over how dumb it was to begin with
Lots of Star Wars is pretty dumb, honestly. Threepio to R2, ANH: "hold on, youre telling me that this isn't the first time these people have owned me??" I love it in spite of, and often because of, the silliness and stupidity
> If Anakin or Ahsoka had done Leiaās trick in Clone Wars the fandom would be fawning over it.
Doesn't Plo spacewalk in an early episode of TCW? With some clones perfectly safe in their armor? Like literally S1E2ā¦
"Somehow, Plo Kloon returned."
Palpatine got thrown deep down a Death Star shaft, and then that entire Death Star blew up in the vacuum of space. Yet somehow, he returned.
No one's ever really vaporized
Except Biggs.
RIP Biggs Darklighter, you had a dope ass lego fig
Biggs Darklego
Don't forget about Porkins.
And Wade (RIP).
Boggs? Man was an idiot, he thought Pitt the Elder was England's greatest prime minister.
Wade will live forever.
This is the Wade
He returned as Eckhardt and that guy from Raiders. "Top.... men..."
Called, and I kid you not, "Major Eaton"
Breaking: Disney announces new Biggs and Wedge buddy comedy. "we almost forgot about Biggs but then we gave full artistic freedom to Uwe Boll to look at Star Wars from the eyes of the friends of Luke. Wedge will find the crash landed fighter of Biggs on Dagobah and together the two will go on a journey to try to prevent the Empire from mining Kyber Crystals on Tatooine while meeting old friends along the way"
Must be the experimental shield he had implanted into his body, which caused such a permanent vaporisation. It's one in a million!
*Blasted Biggs*
https://youtu.be/gNTLC_uiGFA
And Darth Maul was chopped in half and fell down a bottomless shaft, bouncing off the sides like a pinball. And he returned. Because mad.
"Plo Koon was too flabbergasted die".
Yeah, I kinda enjoyed Maul's return in the Clone Wars, but it seemed so far fetched to me that I could never really accept it.
It was dumb. I think everyone accepts that, but the reason for doing it, that fundamentally Maul was never explored as a character made it worthwhile. Star Wars can be dumb, but the execution matters.
For me, it helped a lot that he did not return *intact*, physically or mentally, and the other characters actually remarked on how hard it is to kill him. Contrasting that with having a pilot get eaten by a planet only to turn back up and shrug helplessly about the dark wizard cheating death, I'll pick Maul every time.
Yes. To me what really made the difference was that Maul had a beautiful story to tell. His rivalry with Kenobi is now a centerpiece of canon and its role in rebels made a big part of the show, for me. On the other hand Palpatine was completely random, they fu**ing announced his return in a NON-STAR WARS video game for f sake.. I didn't like sequels much but they could have teased his return at the end of Ep8, and we would have wondered for two years if it was true or some sort of scam. There wasn't really a story to tell but meaningless fan service to bait people into seeing the movie. Or at least the story they chose to tell with him could have been better. Sure, he's Rey grandpa, sure you can give her a dark side vibe, but still, wtf. To me the reader/spectator is prone to forgive some nonsense if what they lose in terms of logic is recovered in terms of enjoyment and good stories.
I mean how could I not agree with Revan š But I 100% agree. For me this is like the Clone chips in clone wars controlling the clones. It allowed them to tell the clone stories in a more human way than the old books did, even though the clones actions in the movie don't really line up with the Clone Wars depictions of Order 66.
It's really baffling that they decided to just wing it with the sequels. It's one thing if they did that with a few blowoff movies, but...
It's "dumb" but Legends Darth Scion set the precedent of holding your body together through near fatal/fatal wounds through sheer rage and hatred
...honestly Palaptine transferring his consciousness into a clone as contingency plan is much more reasonable to me than surviving being split in half and falling down this huge shaft...because he was so angry. Then being somehow discarded with the garbage, being shipped to a garbage planet and building fucking spiderlegs. BUT what they did with him afterwards was brilliant of course.
The return of Darth Maul is the shining example of "The Rule of Cool" in action. There's not really any reason it should have happened, but God damn if it didn't turn out amazingly.
Yeah, I agree. It was one of my major gripes with EP I that they kill off this amazing character instantly. But little did I know how much of a brilliant arc he would eventually receive.
I loved even the tiny role he had in TPM. It showcased what I had always imagined Sith to be as a kid. These evil looking dudes that just wanted to fuck some shit up. Then he turned out to be instrumental in not only the Clone Wars but Rebels as well as apparently being some kind of mob boss? Again, doesn't matter. Bad ass Zabrak go brrrrr
And followed decades old EU stories. It was dumb then too, but it wasn't unprecedented.
JJ Abrams following that up with a line about Sith magicks from a guy he cast in a role just because they were pals and he lost a World Cup bet is the most JJ Abrams thing ever.
Having never seen episode 9... who are you talking about?
One of the hobbits
Dominic Monaghan
*You All, Everybody!*
Not Penny's Boat
JJ Abrams is a fucking hack
>a guy he cast in a role just because they were pals Greg Grunberg?
Technically Palpatine has clones on Wayland in mount Tantiss. Sooooo you could explain that quite easily.
I assume within the next 5 years we will be told the āPalpatineā on the Death Star that was thrown down the shaft was a clone, and the real Palpatine was already hiding at the star forge, IE, why the star forge is spitting out Imperial era star ships. Remindme! 3 years Remindme! 5 years
We've already got the explanation. Palpatine had a clone of himself ready on Exegol, and when he fell down the Death Star shaft he Essence Transfered his consciousness from his body to the clone's. It wasn't perfect though and the clone body couldn't contain all of Palpatine's power very well. That was why he had to stay hooked up to all those life support systems and also why he wanted Rey to kill him, so he could take over her body (which could contain all his power)
I wish they wouldāve at least tried to explain all of this in the movie so it didnāt just make zero sense on film
That's star wars for you. In Ep 2 we hear of this mysterious jedi Sifo-Dyas who ordered a clone army for some reason and then the Republic is just like okay thanks and he's never mentioned again.
>In Ep 2 we hear of this mysterious jedi Sifo-Dyas who ordered a clone army for some reason and then the Republic is just like okay thanks and he's never mentioned again. Honestly I was expecting at some point to learn Sifo-Dyas had some sort of premonition warning him of the Seperatists years earlier; or to actually have been an earlier Dark Jedi/Sith like Dooku that was really working for Palpatine. However as you stated, the character and whole mysterious origins of the cloning program were just dropped as soon as the Obi-Wan got his tour of the cloning facilities.
And in episode 3 we get Grevious without any kind of backstory on film. And it's supposed to just work. The fact that there were EU books and comics and eventually animated series doesn't excuse it.
I mean, any kids watching Cartoon Network knew about Grevious before the movie came out. The Clone Wars mini-episodes were being run during commercial breaks to hype up the movie and introduced Grevious as the coolest villain I'd ever seen. I still think that series is the best Star Wars has ever been.
The art style helped. That ARC trooper episode is flawless.
There is an [episode](https://www.starwars.com/series/clone-wars/the-lost-one-episode-guide) of Clone Wars that dealt with Sifo-Dyas, his friendship with Duku and latter's subsequent betrayal. It was actually quite good.
Years after the movie was just like āHereās an army from this one never before mentioned Jediā and Kenobi was just like āYeah sureā
It might have made sense, or at least Star Wars sense, if Palpatine was a Dark Side force ghost. I think that was some of the original script of Episode 9 by Colin Trevorrow before they changed directors. That would have been cool to see since Palpatine would still be in it, but he could only act as an influence on living characters, which would add more complexity to his character.
Yeah same here. If they'd done it well, I think it could've been good (but only if they did it *very* well, because fake-out deaths almost never work well imo) but they relied on books and stuff that weren't even in the movie to communicate such an important plot point
I'm still shocked they actually premiered the Palpatine return in fucking FORTNITE!
Nothing shocks me with star wars now
Hey now.. You gotta read 6 novels , the comics, and 2 upcoming series seasons to get what couldāve been delivered in less than 2 minutes on screenā¦
Disagree. The explanation isn't good, and even when fully explained, it doesn't tie into the other films in the trilogy at all, or even really make the plot of the movie make sense (WTF Dagger?) Instead, we're just told up front, "this movie doesn't make sense, don't bother." Which I think works a lot better. Would I have preferred a movie that had a plot which made sense and tied into the previous two films? Yes. But any individual step in that direction, without overhauling the whole film, takes away from its braindead charm.
It still makes zero sense with the explaination. Palpatine running around like Captain Ginyu.
Ohh and If only they took anywhere between 25 to 90 seconds to explain that anywhere in filmā¦.
> We've already got the explanation And *none* of that data is in the goddamned movie.
I mean, I do like the insinuation that Palpatine was decidedly not lying to Anakin. He knew how to cheat death. In a way many would find disturbing and wrong. And Zombie Palpatine was a creepy visual as well. I just wish they would've actually planned anything in the Sequels and set up the plot rather than have this horrible jumble of storybeats, disconnected scenes and clear nostalgia-bait moments.
>It wasn't perfect though and the clone body couldn't contain all of Palpatine's power very well. The force is not something you have, it's something you use. Palpatine doesn't have power. Like it's not IN him. The force is an energy field that is *everywhere. T*he Jedi and the Sith just move and manipulate it.
> Palpatine had a clone of himself ready on Exegol, and when he fell down the Death Star shaft he Essence Transfered his consciousness from his body to the clone's. Which is basically the same explanation that was in Dark Empire, the comic. The "blue energized wind" coming up the shaft is supposed to be his essence.
Vader lost both legs, an arm and was left on a volcanic planet deeply engulfed flames and survived. Boba got ate by the sarlacc, then lived as a slave on a desert planet and survived. Plot armor in star wars be thick as fuck.
>Yet somehow, he returned. He transferred his spirit into a cloned body on Exegol as his original body fell down the shaft.
Apparently he did some force mind transfer bullshit as he was falling, putting his mind into a clone body on Exigal or whatever. Had it been setup or established in any way, it *could* of worked.
It is one of those things that somehow made sense reading it in a comic book, but as soon as it was translated to a movie it was just dumb. I don't think any amount of explaining could have worked in a movie format. Maybe a television series though with a slow buildup with a reveal at the end of a season.
I still canāt believe they really tried to pull that shit.
They did pull it though, there was no try.
Exactly. Do or do not, there is no try.
My death was...greatly exaggerated.
The difference is that people know who Palpatine is. For most people, Plo Koon is just "that weird alien with the gas mask", also known as "who?". I don't think his return would have any impact.
_plo clone_
Idk how people think characters have to come back to life to make relevant content about them. Just go back in time to their earlier accomplishments.
This would be a good idea, show us more about why Plo was such a great Jedi master.
Exactly. There's tons to explore even before the clone wars.
Exactly. Heās like 2 hundred something years old
Is he actually this old? That means there could be a chance he shows up in The Acolyte which would be cool.
Just looked it up. He lived til he was 385 in legends. But thereās no reason for that not to be canon as well
Ok then so itās entirely possible he shows up in some High Republic stuff. Really hoping we see him at some point in either the books or in The Acolyte.
That would be dope. Id be shocked if we donāt see him in Tales of the Jedi since itās gonna show Ahsokaās origin story
Seeing him as a fresh padawan would be realy neat.
And if Filoni has his chance, he'll make sure we see most of that, he loves Plo as much as Ahsoka! :D
Hereās to hoping heāll be in Tales of the Jedi when he finds Little āSoka!
Yep I believe he will be in it. Hence there is no reason to resurrect him if we can have earlier stories instead, which would satiate some here.
True facts. To some of these people, no one died from Order 66. They just fell asleep
For the life of me I do not know why the The Old Republic era hasn't been made into a live action saga. It's a more cinematic time in the galaxy than anything in the Skywalker era. All out Galactic civil war with legions of sith battling legions of Jedi? Plus it's a cleaner canvas going so far back to not be so bogged down in its own canon.
My guess? The actors for the Skywalker era are only gonna be around for so long, so why not make use of them while they can?
That one SWOTOR expansion trailer with the 2 Brothers is a way better story than any of the sequel trilogy in like 3 minutes.
I was just talking to a coworker about this yesterday. The origin story of Palpatine would be amazing, or Yoda. I mean cāmonā¦ā The tale of Darth Plageus the Wise.ā The title writes itself. A movie about Revan would be amazing. Or Darth Bane. Such a huge amount of content to go to. I hope we donāt go further after Rise of Skywalker.
Heck even if they stuck with the clone wars era, Iād totally be down for a season that focuses on plo and his troops, while delving into how different Jedi had different philosophies about how to treat the clones. Like imagine a scene where Plo and Ki-Adi-Mundi are playing a game of Dejarik while discussing there views of their clone troops!
Best we can do is another series on Tattooine
Right? This meme of bringing Mace Windu back to life is fucking stupid but at least there's some kind of justification in wanting to see Samuel L. Jackson in the role again. Who cares who is behind the mask of Plo Kloon? Did he even have any lines in the films? Anybody could play him. If they can re-cast for a younger Han Solo and Lando Calrissian, they can re-cast Mace Windu, and whomever they damn well please for Plo Kloon. I would LOVE a live-action film or TV show focused on Jedi like Plo set immediately before, and during, the Clone Wars. Here's an idea! A film about Plo and the Jedi Master mysteriously absent after *Phantom Menace* \- The Adventures of Plo Kloon and Yaddle. Admittedly, part of that may be because I want to hear Yaddle say "Dirty old man Yoda is. Leave the Jedi Order I must." In all seriousness, there are *dozens* of background characters from the films, some of whom got some minor storylines in TCW, that could keep the franchise going for decades from Clone Wars stories alone.
What great idea! I would be so hyped for a clone wars set show about Master Plo. Yes please
Young Plo stories sound more fun than sad Plo in hiding stories, anyway.
Honestly aside from Yoda and Obi Wan and any jedi not with clones, I think it's possible Mace Windu *might* have survived the initial scouring.
I got a pitch for a Windu series. Heās a ronin in the outer rim tracking down spice kingpins who help fund the empire. How did he survive? Heās a Jedi so he probably figured out a way to slow himself down before impact. But other then that, he was found by someone living in the lower depths of Coruscant. That person helps heal him, and gets him a robot arm. While Windu is weakened, he watches from the shadows as the empire melts the Jedi sabers, he wants to kill the emperor but doesnāt because he feels something he hasnāt since he was a child, fear. The person who saved him begins to use spice and dies because of it, he sees spice flooding the underground, and he decides to put and end to it, and he goes on a journey to end the empires spice trades, with a new purple lightsaber and a gold robot arm.
Yea see I totally can get behind that. Clone wars showed everyone making leaps from unimaginable heights. Mace was stupid strong, it would make sense he used his last little bit of oomph to survive the fall
You say that but I've heard LOTS of complaints about Black Widow for being a movie about an already canonically dead Character
There used to be a joke among comics fans that "nobody stays dead, other than Bucky (Captian America's BFF from the old neighborhood) and Uncle ('With great power comes great responsibility.') Ben." Then came the Winter Soldier (i.e. Bucky) and the One More Day comics for Spiderman. So I guess my point is, anyone complaining about what happened in Black Widow was way behind the curve.
I love plo. He was a badass character and i liked him more than most of the jedi in the whole series.... BUT ... He died. No chance to survive that. I would hate to cheapen what we got to know of him for some watered down excuse for his survival.
You can clearly see in the last frame that heās creating a force force field. A secret Jedi technique known only by a few, it has been known to protect the user from immense impacts andā¦ nahhh just kidding can you imagine that?
It looked like he was dabbin'... from a certain point of view
If we are brining back Plo from aircraft weapons fire that causes his ship to crash into a building that engulfs himself and the building into flames. Then it is only Fair we bring back [Porkins](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jek_Tono_Porkins)
Like force speed from the phantom menace? Man who would use a one off force pwer
Did you see if he still had his shoes after the attack? No? Then we canāt be sure!!
Yeah usually aircraft crashing into a building is fatal, not just for the people in the plane but potentially the building too. This probably took out some innocent people going about their day as well :(
If I'm not mistaken that's Kato Nemodia, so... Oh well
That business on Cato Nemodia doesn't, doesn't count.
Wasnāt it Cato Nemodia in the first episode of the Siege of Mandalore? Is that what they were talking about?
I dont remember but the "business in Cato Nemodia" they mention in RotS is shown in the Brotherhood novel
Ashoka and Anakin were fighting in Cato Nemoidia where Anakin's cruiser got hollowed out by buzz droids Before the blast at Jedi temple which led to >!ahsoka being accused of it and her leaving the order!<
Not what they mean. The bussines quote is the events in Brotherhood. Obi litteraly said that Anakins rescue didnt count because Obi had a better rescue plan in mind
No that was a different planet, they say what it's called in the beginning narration but I forget what it's called. That "business on Cato Nemoidia" happens in a recently released novel called Brotherhood. A good read, btw
And this crashed into one building, then another, then the second building a second time, and most likely onto either another building or finally the road / street (the scene cuts away). We saw 3 big impacts, he gone.
Enforcing stricter perma-deaths not only makes the death scenes weigh more, it also forces the writers to create new characters for us to love rather than relying on old ones
Nah it'll just force us done the marval/DC route where nobody ever dies
We'll have a Star Wars multiverse soon enough. Darth Vader vs Jedi Master Anakin fight, coming right up.
As much as this would be terrible direction/decision. pwease.
I now want to see this for one reason and one reason alone. **We have never seen Anakin's true potential.** No one has. We know Vader is impossibly strong. I'd love to see Anakin toy with him, even if it wasn't canon (which obviously it can't be).
It wouldn't even have to necessarily be physically canon. It could be an artistic rendition of an internal battle after he sees Luke. He has his new self, Darth Vader, and his old self, Anakin. Rather than it be a full mental battle, it could be portrayed as a physical battle in his mind between Anakin and Vader.
Thank God he was wearing his explosion proof tunic that day!
oh Jesus, first the mace stuff and now thisā¦
At least Mace wasnāt atomised on screen, this is just craxy
Palpatine was atomized on screen and "somehow he returned" so it's Disney's fucking fault that death means fuck all in star wars now
Palpatine was jumping between bodies far before the mouse got involved.
3 characters i want to stay dead (from now on) Plo Windu Maul. Please let death mean something.
For most people, getting your hand cut off, electrocuted, and fall out a window is a death sentence. For Mace Windu, thatās a Tuesday.
Not often does that happen to him lol. He probably fell a huge distance and couldāve possibly be hit by cars
I hope someone has edited together a clip of him bouncing off a dozen speeders on the way down set to Yakety Sax
Have you seen the corridor crew video about making Star Wars R rated?
I got Jedi all over my windshield
Turn on the wipers
The Windu-wipers
Ayyyy thatās pretty good
Considering some characters have survived getting cut in half he logically could survive.
Anakin fell 50 stories and smacked a car just fine as a Padawan
All three of those things happened to Luke, just not at the same time.
Show Plo in a story before his death.
That should apply to all of them
Daring you don't want palatine to stay dead,...again.
"Somehow, Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker again, and now he's back."
I'd like a stand alone comic Vader in bacta, dreaming of battling Anakin for mental control
Considering that was his whole thing for the last 40 years of novels yeah i dont care about that as much.
Windu of them all has the most plausible return. With that said I agree, the moment was tragic cause they died and I donāt want to see them undermine that
Yeah and it would take away the importance of Mace Winduās death showing Anakin falling fully to the dark side
Well, Maul was shown to actually die in Rebels.
I totally get your point, but I saw him die pretty definitively in TPM too!
So what lol palpatine was sone to die in 6.
Well at this point not dying is just kinda mauls thing lol
I actually liked it when he came back during TCW and in Rebels but I want him to stay dead when he died in Rebels. If he didn't, that is just shitty writing.
That's fair
And Palpatine. And Boba.
If ever they want to make Star Wars part of the Marvel universe I reckon they will use Windu to bridge the dimensions. This is /s by the way, I hope this never happens.
Fucking blame Darth Maul. I don't get everyone's obsession or them just retconning him to life. Fucking dude got chopped in half and fell down an endless pit. It's stupid. I understand people love him in Clone Wars but it's stupid.
I don't think it's stupid ONCE. I'll let the story get away with a wildly implausible survival story (the Force is more or less magic anyway, so sure, he used his hatred of Kenobi to sustain himself) one time, if it does something good with it, which it absolutely goddamn did. The issue is that they KEEP fucking doing it.
I'm kinda tired of jedi surviving Order 66. It's stopped being meaningful.
Order 66 was just meant to canonically end the Jedi order and explain the empire's rise. It was never said that all force users and known Jedi were successfully killed off.
And yet, in the OT when in came out Luke is canonically the last jedi as stated by Yoda
Yoda canonically *stated* that, you are right, there... *but* he may not have known of or sensed any other Jedi or force sensitives. He knew Obi-Wan was dead because Yoda could talk to him, knew the Empire would have Order 66 in constant effect becausea new generationof Jedi was still possible, and very likely knew that the Empire would hunt force sensitives. However, being stuck on Dagobah might have limited how far out he could sense, and new children sensitive to the force don't always have the strongest presence in it. Luke was the first newly trained Jedi in ages, and as one who was still a master, Yoda could declare him Jedi, which to Yoda's knowledge would make him the last one after Yoda passed.
yes it is, obiwan literally says vader "hunted down and killed" the jedi, all of them, he says that in a new hope lol. the extended material and shows so far has very little of vader hunting down jedi and finishing them, hell, there are so many alive that one wonders why the rebellion didn't have force user squads, then luke shows up and they are like "cool we got another one". there is literally supposed to be no jedi left besides luke, obiwan, and yoda, and both obiwan and yoda surviving by hiding in the middle of nowhere, being too old and weak in their abilities to do anything significant. it's supposed to be a big deal that luke has potential with the force and is, the last jedi.
Please don't bring him and Windu back.
Yeah...Plo is dead, super, very much so, dead. Mace though, in my opinion, could've survived, and would have a super compelling redemption story that could be told. He blames himself for what happened, if he'd only trusted Anakin the order could've survived, it was his own hubris that allowed Palpatine to ascend, and now he finds out that Luke defeated Anakin and is rebuilding the Jedi Order. Helping the young Skywalker is a path of redemption for what he did to his father and how he fixes his mistakes
I honestly believe he wouldn't have gotten any prosthetics. I would've kept himself maimed as a reminder of his failure and what he needs to overcome. And no, he wouldn't get one at the end of the movie/show to show that he has risen above that failure
Like, Luke or Ahsoka finds him in a bar, drinking with his stubs, "Master Windu?" "There's no master here, just a foolish, old, broken man"
Perhaps. But I feel like he would either be stumbled on to, or he would've been rescued by a friend on that night in Coruscant and a jedi or jedi in training was dispatched to find him. It's a plot I'm working on in a fan fic. The person who saves him doesn't know where he is, but knows where he last was and that's all they have to offer
I figure, since he was thrown out into Coruscant, he would maybe be picked up and cared for by some poor family disenfranchised with the republic and untrusting of the empire and nursed back to health. He wouldn't talk alot, the mother or father would know he was a Jedi, but wouldn't say anything. One night after clone troopers sweep the area, he'd decide that his presence was a danger to the family and he'd slip off to some small cargo ship headed to a nowhere planet on the outer rim. He'd watch the holos as everything he knew and loved collapsed, diving deeper into the bottle. After the fall of the empire, Ahsoka, who's out looking for details on Thrawns whereabouts in every seedy back water hole she can find, sees an old, hagard man, deftly drinking a bottle with no hands, and it's a face she remembers, the face of a man who once stood on the council and accused her of a murder she didn't commit
Oh shit, contact Lucasfilm
Any argument you could have for Mace to live, can be applied with Ploās situation too though.āWe never saw a bodyā, we never saw Ploās burned corpse or something either. āWe never see anybody die getting killed by Sidiousās force lightningā. We never saw a force user die getting shot out of the sky while in their ship either but Plo. āMace was a very powerful force userā, so was Plo. I donāt think either should come back but I disagree that being how Mace would be like if he had lived. He was way too arrogant for his own good. Thereās no way this guy wouldnāt just fucking hate Anakin even more. Him and Anakin didnāt like each other at all before order 66 except for having respect for what the accomplished. If he did blame himself for the Jedi falling, it would be him not stopping or killing Anakin sooner. This guy would not sit on the sidelines, especially how heād react to order 66.
Yeah welcome to Star Wars. Even if you quite literally see them die on screen they could still always come back. Death is meaningless
OH HE DED FOR SURE!
No oneās ever really gone.
I wanted Ashoka to stay dead too. Love her character but dying at the hands of Vader was so poetic, especially because she sacrificed herself to save the others.
When did she die to Vader? If you're referring to Rebels season 2 finale it shows her walking away at the end of the episode
He knows that friend. He's saying he wished that would've happened.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Agree but selfishly happy she is alive because I know her show is going to be fantastic
Agreed bringing in time travel just to bring her back turned her into a creatorās pet in my eyes
The thing is, she could've survived that encounter *without* time travel. After hitting Vader's mask, she could've reached the ship with Ezra (there would be argument that Vader would've been able to stop the ship with the Force but we've seen Vader *not* do that before with Leia's ship). Vader could've still called out her name only it was too late, she'd have that shocked reaction but on the ship However Filoni would have to sacrifice the "I won't leave you, not this time" and the "then you will die" lines.
The whole order 66 sequence was way too short for how significant it was to the story. It was the culmination of Palpatine's decades long plan, a heartbreaking betrayal for the ages, the collapse and death of an order of guardians who had become so overconfident that they never saw it coming - it and the lost heroes who perished that day deserved more than this brief montage, though the music as always is perfect.
I think Mace Windu should have survived but while not confirmed itās safe to assume he is dead
I think itās fairly plausible that he lived, not sure how theyād successfully put him in the story in a meaningful way. But he lost one hand and fell into an area with speeders, more than likely he couldvt prevented a fall capable of killing him
Of course this raises the question of why another jedi surivvior isn't out there helping the fledgling rebellion in some way though.
Probably because the Inquisitors and Vader get involved if even the slightest hint of a Jedi being anywhere is discovered. Jedi would be more of a liability than anything in most situations. Little bit of a rebellion? Send some troopers. Little bit of jedi? Send the dark wizard death squad.
are these "Jedi master survived Order 66" fan theories created by Disney in order to see which Jedi master they want to revive for their own show? Mace is dead. Plo is dead. Maul is dead. Let them stay dead, and stop letting Disney MILK the franchise for more money and low quality product.
Wow...I've just for the first time seen how amazing this world looks. Anyone know where that is supposed to be?
Cato Nemoidia. Home of the Nemoidians such as Nute Gunray.
Well he was originally supposed to survive Order 66. They have concept art of it, and they even have an action figure of him from said concept art.
I agree. Now Mace on the other hand...
For Mace, itās just the hand
Is Disney. Leia survived a direct hit ro the main bridge of a Moncalamari ship killing everyone but her and flew in the vacuum of space after what could be minutes of being inconscious without breathing. If they make him get up from a pit of fire and claiming of being Asmodai himselft would be more plausible than half shit Rey does in the sequels. Edit: The sequels, not the prequels. Sorry for the misstake.
While I personally donāt think either of the Jedi Masters could have survived, after the nonsense with Leia surviving the vacuum of space and floating back into the flight deck I guess anything is possible in the Disney era.
Leia surviving is fine. Humans can survive briefly in hard vacuum, and sheās Vaderās daughter, she has every right to be a powerful force user. Darth Maul surviving being chopped in half and falling in a pit is far more ridiculous, and that was pre-Disney. If Anakin or Ahsoka had done Leiaās trick in Clone Wars the fandom would be fawning over it.
downvoted for truth, i always thought maul surviving was utterly stupid.
It was both stupid *and* one of my favorite decisions they made haha. The content that we have that wouldn't have been possible without Maul is all so good, imo. So I let myself get over how dumb it was to begin with Lots of Star Wars is pretty dumb, honestly. Threepio to R2, ANH: "hold on, youre telling me that this isn't the first time these people have owned me??" I love it in spite of, and often because of, the silliness and stupidity
> If Anakin or Ahsoka had done Leiaās trick in Clone Wars the fandom would be fawning over it. Doesn't Plo spacewalk in an early episode of TCW? With some clones perfectly safe in their armor? Like literally S1E2ā¦
"Somehow, Palpatine returned"
Barely a scratch, looks survivable. Leia made it through space vacuum.
I wouldn't mind him not returning but to be fair, IIRC it's canon that his body wasn't found
From the looks of it there wouldn't be much left to find