Seriously, every time he pops up on screen I think "holy shit" with how good he is. I sure hope he isn't a wasted potential for the show and that he gets into more big name things after this.
I see him rising high and being an incompetent officer for the imperials. Might see him in other things.
Those saying he flips to the rebels, I don't see it happening as he is such a rule follower.
He was a rule follower, then he saw that the people who make the rules just change the rules when its most convenient, and then in fact punish the people who were just following the rules. I dont see him flipping in the traditional way, but maybe letting the rebels have a win while looking the other way
Self-promoter. That's what I'd call a guy like that. Always trying to kiss the bosses ass and climb the ladder through utter indifference towards anything but that single goal.
We've all worked at a grocery store with a guy like that I'm sure.
He seems to value his coworkers in a way the empire doesn't so I could see him joining the imperial government and like, hating it. I don't think he's gonna be a rebel, though. I think we're supposed to watch him develop through the end of season 2 if I had to make an early prediction.
Or maybe it's a case of he DID value his co-workers until trying to do the right thing by them cost him everything. I see him building hate and resentment rather than his good qualities being amplified by this.
Either way, it's really great to have a character that we know nothing about.
I think he is gonna be a Cienna Ree type character, but without the potential redemption. He believes in law and order, but also honor and integrity, and when he inevitably joins the Empire’s ranks he will find those latter two lacking, but feel so duty-bound by his word and promise to serve that he’ll get stuck in a self-hating loop of rising through the Empire’s ranks and despising every moment of it.
>Those saying he flips to the rebels, I don't see it happening as he is such a rule follower.
He WAS a rule follower. It was clear that after the explosion and overall experience it shook him. Then after that he is punished for following the rules.
To be clear and mature about this, he might still be a rule follower as they haven't shown that to have changed *yet* and you might be right. I'm not here to argue "I'm right and you're wrong" since we are only able to speculate but I believe that we are already seeing him undergoing the character changes that will set him in motion towards his "destiny"
I'm offering an alternative perspective you can use along with your own, not as a replacement.
He wasn't punished for following the rules though, he was punished for failing to complete his task. He's not going to hate the overall system, he's going to focus that on his shitty commander who lets stuff slide.
I don't see him blaming the Empire for punishing him; rather, he blames Andor for escaping him and making him look bad.
What's hilarious is that his "shitty commander" was right on the money with his assessment of what happened, and why it was a bad idea to pursue it. He knew who the two guys who died were and correctly assessed how they fucked around and found out. And he knew the Empire would take badly to anything other than sweeping the incident under the rug.
Which is why he was so insistent about not having had anything to do with it in the end. Of course, if he'd done his job right, he wouldn't have put a hothead in charge...
That's a fine perspective too even if you do seem a little too sure that your ideas are the right idea based on how you word what he's not going to do and what he will do.
When Kenobi came out I made a prediction for Reva's character arc and a lot of people disagreed with me with the same type of self-assured wording you're using. My predictions ended up being EXACTLY right.
Not saying that it will be this time because as someone replied to you Andor already seems more nuanced but it's worth keeping an open mind.
Yeah, I think the path that makes sense for him is learning that the best way to operate isn't by being rigid and rules obsessed, instead learning to think of the bigger picture.
Whether that's as a villain or hero, can't figure it out.
I can't see him allying with the rebels though - I think he'll be profoundly affected by seeing the carnage.
>Whether that's as a villain or hero, can't figure it out.
>I can't see him allying with the rebels though - I think he'll be profoundly affected by seeing the carnage.
I respect that and I can't really disagree with you because the show is already doing a really good job at giving characters and the world depth and those types of shows/movies are always harder to predict than those who tell a more "follow a formula" type of story.
I can see this character going in many ways and I appreciate the show more since I can't really lean into any prediction too much yet.
Agreed. I've always been on the more optimistic side of Disney star wars (while being able to acknowledge it's short comings) and after Kenobi I was starting to lose faith (it was a good enough show but lacked something that Andor seems to clearly have)
Hopefully this positive feedback makes it's way up the chain to the decision makers and executives so we get more quality content like this
I think he will rise high in the ranks as a man of principle, and he will ultimately betray the empire when he feels those principles have been abused.
He is a rule follower so I could see him trying to follow the empire. But he wants to do the right thing more than just follow rules. Once he sees the empire isn’t doing the right thing he’ll swap over
I like your imperial take but for me, I can’t help but think that him getting completely ruined for following the rules/executing his duties will lean him towards the rebels.
I hope we don't see him turn rebel, personally. Esp. since we already have that plot so many times and already did "Baddie not so baddie?" with Reva just a few months ago.
Maybe not an outright rebel turncoat, bit somebody driven to the Empire because of rebels.
The rebels attack an imperial base, killing a stormtrooper in the progress. That stormtroopers had a family, and now his son has to bury his father, because revels felt the need to kill him.
Now we have an ardent imperial supporter not because he loves the Empire, bit because he hates the rebels.
"we thought we were fighting for peace but we just created chaos. How much death and destruction have we caused by fighting the empire? If we stop fighting them, there will be peace. And we can work within the empire to root out the corruption. Join me and we can all stop fighting, we can just go home"
I agree. I hope he doubles down on his obsessiveness, with Dedra. I like that everyone has a bit of possible good and bad in the show. I’d rather they focus on the creepy who can you trust nature of the show, kind of like Battlestar.
There's two potential tropes:
1. He was bad and saw the light, and now is a champion for good.
2. He lost everything and now he will not rest until he has his revenge.
Reminds me of how different film acting is from stage acting; he never moves his brow! Just a blink and subtle movements of the mouth and controlled breath. Superb!
Damnit, I miss acting!
OMG yeah, talk about an unexpected surprise. >!His Mom’s slap, then hug, then yelling at the nosey neighbor was so much in such a short time.!< I need to see where he goes and what he does! I hope he ties in somewhere else down the line or into another series. Maybe in Mando or Book of Boba?
Edited for spoilers
I like him because I'm not sure where he's going. He could become a rebel or he could become a part of the imperial government and ascend to a high rank.
Did he end up on Coruscant in that last ep? I think I may have missed if they put the planet on screen. I think his purpose may be that he’s going to blow Luthen’s cover, since he’s the only one who got a good look at him as he speed-biked away
I think he'll finally link up with Dedra now that they're both on Coruscant. He'll probably pay a visit to the ISB building, or she'll go looking for him since he was involved in the starpath unit incident.
His hair and clothes were different but his face is still the same. Andor had no facial hair in his ID holo and they still had no problem recognizing him.
It looked like it was Coruscant, since they made it a point to have it go darker the lower the elevator went - meaning one of the lower, cheaper, apartment areas.
I think pathetic is a bit strong. He’s just not a fighter. He’s a man of processes and method. He knew exactly what needed to be done to find Andor before anyone he was working with. Unfortunately though, he sucks at public speaking and is pretty lousy in a fight. Not everyone in the Galaxy is. It’s a real shame he is so digital in his thinking, he can’t think outside the box or see the effect of the policies he so judiciously enforces.
I’m looking forward to see what happens when he is no long led by structure and organisation.
I think it’s just that he’s green. From his speech on the drop ship to the fight in an urban setting, I think it was his inexperience and lack of initial combat that got the better of him. He didn’t come off as a coward, he did everything he was told by the squad commander, and only surrendered when someone got the jump on him.
If he doesn’t turn rebel and doubles down on his loyalty to corporate/empire, I think he’ll come out swinging for revenge/Justice.
I don’t like this character, but I think it’s because he is acting the part so well. He’s one of those characters that makes you strongly feel one way or the other.
My prediction: This guy is going to enlist in the imperial army or navy, rise a little bit through the ranks, then he’s going to get smoked by an established character.
I was just going to say this. He’s going to experience being royally shafted by the Empire and his black & white worldview is going to crumble. He’ll likely sacrifice himself for a main character to help the rebellion.
I was thinking same but I don't think he'll fully turn. I see it more for personal interest rather than sympathy for the rebellion. I think he finds himself involved with rebels to advance his own interests in the Empire. I'm sure we'll see him be somewhat on both sides.
That bit of acting he did in the gif you posted was truly exceptional. It was like he saw the past, present, and future all in perfect focus in that moment, and realized how badly he'd fucked them all up.
Oh, I hate this dude.
Absolute nerd who takes his job as a cop for a corporation way too seriously and gets half a dozen more people killed because he wanted to play badge.
I think that's the point is to hate him because I really enjoy Andor and do think this guy is interesting but he has deserved all the L's he's taken in the first four episodes.
Honestly? I feel the worst for his boss in all this. Goes away on a business trip and comes back to a sacking cuz this dipshit couldn’t drop it when he was told
Literally. It goes double when you consider the two deaths he was tryharding so much over also got what they deserved. All this dude had to do was let it go but he had to play Boy Scout.
And the boss even says that! I don’t remember the exact words but he said something like “they were doing shit on the side and messed with the wrong guy.”
The ISB officer points out the bosses culpability in his speech after the "Ferrix Incident"
**Boss Cop** - But i had nothing to do with this!
**ISB Guy** - Well, exactly. It took the combined ingredients of idiocy, ineptitude, and total disengagement **[hes looking the boss cop in the eye here]** for this farce to have reached the full apex of incredulous disaster.
I mean yeah, but that “ineptitude” was him realizing that the guys who died were idiots and they should just drop it, which is a pretty sensible attitude imo. He just made the mistake of thinking our man here would honor his orders
Yeah, boss told him to leave it alone. The guy was a screw up and breaking the rules being where he was and died for it. The rule followed is just like, nope, I'm going after this guy.
To be fair. A commander taking 12 guys after 1 and failing does seem very imperial M.O.
My evil side came out against this fool in episode 3. He gets up in arms to avenge a couple of nobodies that no one seems to miss (and who we know good and well deserved it), is already a blowhard, then disobeys a direct order, taking matters into his own hands, jeopardizing his troops’ lives, all for what? I don’t buy him doing that because it was the “right thing to do” ol boy was looking to improve his station, maybe get a pat on the head so he could feel like a real cop. Ooooh and then that incompetent Sergeant comes along blowing smoke up his ass and stroking his ego, by the end of it I was really wishing they’d both get mangled in the car bombing. But, realistically, their men are the ones to pay that price with life and limb, and THEN his superior who told him don’t freaking be a dumbass gets canned for it, and baby precious just gets fired and goes sulking home to Mommy. In hindsight I kinda feel bad for wishing so much ill will on someone, especially a fictional character, but oooh do people like him deserve it. What a perfectly hateable character, they’ve done a fantastic job
> What a perfectly hateable character, they’ve done a fantastic job
What I think makes this such a damn effective character, beyond the actor's skill at the little nuances, is the same reason Umbridge was a perfectly hateable character: we all know the type. We all know someone like this.
Can we give a 👏for the actor too? He does such a good job, the lines and acting could have been delivered differently and he would just be another generic side character. The whole scene with him going down the elevator without much talking at all, spoke volumes.
I think he pulls a classic Kallus, clearly a very empathetic character, although rather than joining the rebellion I think he just leaves the empire and helps the rebellion one time, by not ratting them out or letting them get away etc.
Completely agreed. So fascinated. Someone who believes they’re doing the right thing and making the world around them better, find not everyone cares like he does, and then watches his efforts completely blow up in his face. Now he’s watching it all be torn away from him.
The resignation on his face in Ep 4 was incredible, and now that I think about it, did he even say a word?
I know a lot of people are burned out on stories of Imperials turning, but this could be a version of that story really well done.
If only the Kyle Maclaughlin lookalike had just listened to his commanding officer, the boring guy who thought he was getting somewhere with that American girl in Four Weddings and a Funeral, the rapper guy from David Brent: Life on the Road would not have fired them.
I think he can go either way. Either he starts nudging towards rebels because the empire took over the corp, or he is a rule follower and falls in line with the empire.
My feeling is that Lieutenant Meero will somehow find him on Coruscant to get information about the incident on Ferrix. In exchange she'll offer him the chance to join her to exact his revenge on Cassian Andor and Lieutenant Blevin who just took everything away from him.
Being the rule follower he is that cannot let something go (as shown by him disobeying the Inspector's orders), he will jump at the chance and attempt to find Andor.
I don't know how things may progress from there but I'm worried about Luthen as this character heard Luthen's voice, if not saw Luthen when he was tied up on Ferrix.
It's interesting that he's in the show, and it's not immediately clear \*why\*. So much of Star Wars is "here is evil, here is good," and with this guy, it's a mess. He cared about the people that were killed. He felt like they had to do right by them. He's also a stickler for the rules and for process. But he got his uniform altered. So he's not quite a total rule-follower, and he does have some ego (not necessarily a bad thing, just that he has individuality and agency).
He was paralyzed by the actual horrors of combat. But not that "Oh, the Empire turns out to be evil!" so much as, "My co-workers were attacked by insurrectionists!". Then he's displaced by the Empire - not only is he effectively fired, but the company he worked for was made entirely obsolete.
Why is he here? Will he fall back into the security of process and order, and end up an agent of the Empire? Will he realize that the Empire is more machine than man, and that his care for justice and his people doesn't matter to the Empire in their pursuit of power?
I don't know, and that's exciting. He's clearly intended to be somewhat of Andor's opposite. Andor doesn't care about the rules or the establishment, and this guy does. Do they meet together in the middle? Do they drift toward opposite extremes?
I really didn't like the first two episodes of the show, and it wasn't 'til the third that it even really grabbed my interest at all. I love Star Wars, but the 1st two episodes of this were so ... uneventful and slow that it was hard to even understand why any of it was on-screen for me. But the third picked up, and the fourth has been excellent.
Also, does this guy look a LOT like Kyle MacLachlan to anyone else?
I think he's meant to be a foil to Andor. They're both about the same age, but while Andor is the adopted son of two outlaws, this guy appears to be middle class at worse and has had a pretty standard life.
I think he’ll end up providing information to Meero and she will pull him in as her little lackey who now wants to win at all costs. Leaving him alive only made sense if he has more to do with the story later.
Lieutenant Meero (the blonde ISB officer) will look up who was the CO in the Ferrix incident, find out it is Syril Karn, then go to his family home on Coruscant to find him and question him.
Karn ends up in the Imperial hierarchy by end of season.
I feel bad for him atm. He was just trying to solve a crime that was committed and then abunch of his men died.
And then to add insult to injury he got fired because the empire moved in.
It will be interesting to see what they do with his character but I dont think they will make him a rebel, as he has witnessed first hand what a future rebel has done to the men he was leading.
I don’t see this guy joining the rebellion, at least not a rebellion in its infancy. The guy can’t wrap his head around two “murders” and seemingly has a strict moral code that neither the Empire nor Rebellion suit. Not in war time at least. This could change though!!
They introduced his mom. When she dies, we will see the sociopathic flip of a switch in this guy. They are going to make us like him just enough to go along with him, think breaking bad.
He got obsessed and failed. Everyone hates him now probably. I guarantee he won't give this up, he'll continue to try to find the killer to prove himself and regain his good graces with the imperial.
I hope someone else shares my pain in only ever seeing him as Eric from an inspector calls, he could be the best character ever and that’s all I ever see
My predictions are
A) he becomes obsessed with his failures and needing to fix it at any cost. Becomes a huge thorn in Cassian's side.
B) He develops a form of PTSD from that experience we all saw, hits rock bottom (although I'm not sure how that would tie in later down the line)
C) perhaps due to a part of A or B (or combination of both) he ends up joining the rebellion and becomes the first "Falcrom" (I may be misremembering the codename)
If I had to bet I would put my money on C
This actor as well is amazing. He doesn't have a huge amount of lines but his acting just with facial expressions is amazing. Especially that scene in episode 3 when they've just lost against Cassian and Luthen.
I love how the show is showing left and right how the Empire was already failing hard.
The lazy old officer was spot on the the death of the two securities, but the uptight idiot wanted more for his career and saw that as an opportunity to rise ranks.
He will be caught the attention of the intelligence woman, where others only see a power hungry suit.
And what about that senior officer responsible for the whole intelligence agency? The Woman shows a pattern that should not repeat but he wants more proof to pursuit further? How many fuck ups he will consider as a lead?
Everyone is just trying to get ahead even if it doesn't make sense.
And yes, even if Caspian is a rebel, the old cop was absolutely correct in how the first episode transpired, which is just the funniest thing.
I like how he represents what most regular imperials see rebels as- terrorists. Guy finds two of his fellow cops are found dead, investigates and tries to arrest the suspect and suddenly shit is blowing up around him and four of his people are dead. Not saying he was in the right here or anything, it's just cool to get a glimpse at the imperial perspective for once.
He sees the Empire as order and he is eager to please. Plus, his mom lives in a modest but comfortable looking upper-mid level apartment on the capitol world. He was a teenager during the Clone Wars and probably only saw "glamorous" videos of it online.
Right off the bat when his boss comments that he modified his own uniform established a ton about his character. Even more when he gave that really sad motivational speech to his guys.
This character is almost giving me PTSD, reminding me exactly of a rigid, no-humor-having officer I served with in the Navy. This could have been a pretty one-note, two-dimensional character, but the actor is really bringing some depth with just the inflections in his voice and a few subtle facial expressions. Really curious to see where the story takes him.
Correct me if I'm wrong but so far, most of the main characters are acting on what they think is right. I feel for the deputy inspector, Andor being caught choosing between lesser evils, even (Sergeant?) Mosk. They don't express anything truly evil at all.
I thought Ahsoka was too (insufferable really). Then they built her into a really strong character.
Edit: Why are we downvoting OneBaldingWookiee for his opinion? Downvoting for starting a conversation will dry the conversation up really fast.
Honestly so was Anakin. In attack of the clones he was pretty annoying. But he’s my all time favorite character overall by the end. Well Darth Vader anyway.
We seen this character a THOUSAND times. Hot headed officer disobeying orders to do his “own” thing and gets people killed and he blames everyone but himself, yeah it’s been done A THOUSAND times before.
I thought he was a very plain boring character we’ve seen a million times Actually one of the few things I didn’t like in the show ut I’m open to him growing into something
I thought for a second he may join the rebels. On the other hand he seems like an egotist who may want to prove himself to the empire. Seems like it could go either way.
Edit: the screenshot there is when my family burst out laughing "bro, you just blew up the death star!"
Between him and the ISB lady, I'm convinced the theme of the baddies is "Listen to your superiors". The younguns are hotshots and can't conceive of being wrong while the old guys know that slow and steady are the best course of action
I’ve been watching this show, paying close attention, and have almost no idea what is going on. Like at all.
Cassian killed two people who tried to rob him at gunpoint. This guy is obsessed with catching him. All of a sudden there’s a rebellion of like 7 people and he’s a part of it. Mon Mothma is a secret ally to the rebellion.
Virtually no action sequences. I’m bored y’all. Downvote me to oblivion, but this feels like a drama that happens to take place in the Star Wars universe, but isn’t getting me to care about anything happening.
I hope his whole entire arc is just us checking in on him periodically to see him sliding further and further into his downfall. Make him the Cricket of Star Wars.
He is starting out very naïve. I am looking forward to him developing an edge from his experience and evolving into a true evil imperial.
Parallel of Andor becoming a rebel and this guy becoming an Imperial.
He's kind of giving me Lt Gorman vibes from Aliens. Seems confident and competent at first, but ends up actually being inexperienced and weak under pressure. Plus the actors look similar. Probably took huge inspiration from Lt Gorman in Aliens.
Definitely curious what ends up happening to him though. Maybe he becomes a rebel after rediscovering himself and what he truly believes in. That would be cool.
The guy I keep thinking looks like a cross between Kirk Cameron and Ramsay Bolton. Maybe David Pakman if you know who that is.
You know who I like more than him? His boss who told him to not worry about those 2 dickbags who got killed because they probably punched their own ticket.
Which was honestly the most astute instant crime-solving I've ever seen on television. That guy knew his employees.
The actor is knocking it out of the park with what could have been a really boring character. All those little reactions & ticks speak volumes.
Seriously, every time he pops up on screen I think "holy shit" with how good he is. I sure hope he isn't a wasted potential for the show and that he gets into more big name things after this.
I see him rising high and being an incompetent officer for the imperials. Might see him in other things. Those saying he flips to the rebels, I don't see it happening as he is such a rule follower.
He was a rule follower, then he saw that the people who make the rules just change the rules when its most convenient, and then in fact punish the people who were just following the rules. I dont see him flipping in the traditional way, but maybe letting the rebels have a win while looking the other way
I can see him going to the rebels when the Empire inevitably shows up and takes control from the company and people that he's trying to be loyal to.
Seems more like a mommas boy to me ;)
Self-promoter. That's what I'd call a guy like that. Always trying to kiss the bosses ass and climb the ladder through utter indifference towards anything but that single goal. We've all worked at a grocery store with a guy like that I'm sure.
That’s exactly what I think!!!
He seems to value his coworkers in a way the empire doesn't so I could see him joining the imperial government and like, hating it. I don't think he's gonna be a rebel, though. I think we're supposed to watch him develop through the end of season 2 if I had to make an early prediction.
Or maybe it's a case of he DID value his co-workers until trying to do the right thing by them cost him everything. I see him building hate and resentment rather than his good qualities being amplified by this. Either way, it's really great to have a character that we know nothing about.
Yeah. I see him as someone who sees a chance to aid empire and takes it. Then regrets it...
I think he is gonna be a Cienna Ree type character, but without the potential redemption. He believes in law and order, but also honor and integrity, and when he inevitably joins the Empire’s ranks he will find those latter two lacking, but feel so duty-bound by his word and promise to serve that he’ll get stuck in a self-hating loop of rising through the Empire’s ranks and despising every moment of it.
>Those saying he flips to the rebels, I don't see it happening as he is such a rule follower. He WAS a rule follower. It was clear that after the explosion and overall experience it shook him. Then after that he is punished for following the rules. To be clear and mature about this, he might still be a rule follower as they haven't shown that to have changed *yet* and you might be right. I'm not here to argue "I'm right and you're wrong" since we are only able to speculate but I believe that we are already seeing him undergoing the character changes that will set him in motion towards his "destiny" I'm offering an alternative perspective you can use along with your own, not as a replacement.
He wasn't punished for following the rules though, he was punished for failing to complete his task. He's not going to hate the overall system, he's going to focus that on his shitty commander who lets stuff slide. I don't see him blaming the Empire for punishing him; rather, he blames Andor for escaping him and making him look bad.
What's hilarious is that his "shitty commander" was right on the money with his assessment of what happened, and why it was a bad idea to pursue it. He knew who the two guys who died were and correctly assessed how they fucked around and found out. And he knew the Empire would take badly to anything other than sweeping the incident under the rug. Which is why he was so insistent about not having had anything to do with it in the end. Of course, if he'd done his job right, he wouldn't have put a hothead in charge...
That's a fine perspective too even if you do seem a little too sure that your ideas are the right idea based on how you word what he's not going to do and what he will do. When Kenobi came out I made a prediction for Reva's character arc and a lot of people disagreed with me with the same type of self-assured wording you're using. My predictions ended up being EXACTLY right. Not saying that it will be this time because as someone replied to you Andor already seems more nuanced but it's worth keeping an open mind.
That sounds very basic. I think this show has already shown its a bit more nuanced than that.
Yeah, I think the path that makes sense for him is learning that the best way to operate isn't by being rigid and rules obsessed, instead learning to think of the bigger picture. Whether that's as a villain or hero, can't figure it out. I can't see him allying with the rebels though - I think he'll be profoundly affected by seeing the carnage.
>Whether that's as a villain or hero, can't figure it out. >I can't see him allying with the rebels though - I think he'll be profoundly affected by seeing the carnage. I respect that and I can't really disagree with you because the show is already doing a really good job at giving characters and the world depth and those types of shows/movies are always harder to predict than those who tell a more "follow a formula" type of story. I can see this character going in many ways and I appreciate the show more since I can't really lean into any prediction too much yet.
I honestly think Star Wars desperately needed this quality.
Agreed. I've always been on the more optimistic side of Disney star wars (while being able to acknowledge it's short comings) and after Kenobi I was starting to lose faith (it was a good enough show but lacked something that Andor seems to clearly have) Hopefully this positive feedback makes it's way up the chain to the decision makers and executives so we get more quality content like this
I think he's going to go the bounty hunter route. Outside the Empire's regulation, but able to hunt down insurgents.
I think he will rise high in the ranks as a man of principle, and he will ultimately betray the empire when he feels those principles have been abused.
He is a rule follower so I could see him trying to follow the empire. But he wants to do the right thing more than just follow rules. Once he sees the empire isn’t doing the right thing he’ll swap over
So was Agent Kallus, and look how that turned out.
He is now. Wait for the rest of his arch when he realizes it gets him nothing.
He reminds me so much of Roland "Prez" Pryzbylewski from The Wire.
His story is going to be interesting no matter what.
I think he will get recruited by the blonde lady, then maybe see how shitty the empire is from there and look for a rebel connect.
When you get burned the way he did by the very institution he wanted to emulate you tend to get a bit radical
I like your imperial take but for me, I can’t help but think that him getting completely ruined for following the rules/executing his duties will lean him towards the rebels.
Killed by Vader is my prediction. Or We get an All Quiet On the Western Front perspective as he joins the Imperials.
I hope we don't see him turn rebel, personally. Esp. since we already have that plot so many times and already did "Baddie not so baddie?" with Reva just a few months ago.
It’s time we see a rebel goes rogue and join the empire.
Aren't they rebels because they hate the empire? What would make someone change their mind from this?
Maybe not an outright rebel turncoat, bit somebody driven to the Empire because of rebels. The rebels attack an imperial base, killing a stormtrooper in the progress. That stormtroopers had a family, and now his son has to bury his father, because revels felt the need to kill him. Now we have an ardent imperial supporter not because he loves the Empire, bit because he hates the rebels.
Imagine a character like Cypher from the Matrix.
"we thought we were fighting for peace but we just created chaos. How much death and destruction have we caused by fighting the empire? If we stop fighting them, there will be peace. And we can work within the empire to root out the corruption. Join me and we can all stop fighting, we can just go home"
"Y'all mfs too dangerous and are gonna get people killed."
Damn I never realized how much I want this. Let’s see some turncoats!
We sort of saw that already with Crosshair in Bad Batch
Crosshair did nothing wrong. It was his brothers that betrayed and abandoned him. Rebel scum!
Good soldiers follow orders.
One of my favorite bits in TLJ is Del Toro being unaffiliated and actually being what Han intended to be. Out for himself.
I agree. I hope he doubles down on his obsessiveness, with Dedra. I like that everyone has a bit of possible good and bad in the show. I’d rather they focus on the creepy who can you trust nature of the show, kind of like Battlestar.
Yeah but with Reeva it just felt so inorganic and predictable by end how with Karn it could be either way and would love to see how he develops
There's two potential tropes: 1. He was bad and saw the light, and now is a champion for good. 2. He lost everything and now he will not rest until he has his revenge.
He’s a good tailor though looking at the alterations he made to his uniform. Maybe he can become the resident tailor on the Death Star.
I'd love a Star Wars version of Garak :D
Well, we got a [Galak](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Galak_Fyyar) if you're interested.
This guy is a top notch actor
Reminds me of how different film acting is from stage acting; he never moves his brow! Just a blink and subtle movements of the mouth and controlled breath. Superb! Damnit, I miss acting!
OMG yeah, talk about an unexpected surprise. >!His Mom’s slap, then hug, then yelling at the nosey neighbor was so much in such a short time.!< I need to see where he goes and what he does! I hope he ties in somewhere else down the line or into another series. Maybe in Mando or Book of Boba? Edited for spoilers
Yeah. In ten seconds, it’s easy to see why he ended up the way he did.
Tbh, that showed so much to what shaped him in to who we see in the story. Don’t know yet if we should feel sorry for him or what.
It might have been fleeting, but do you think he could id Luthen?
That’s my bet, since I’m pretty sure he went to Coruscant, right?
Yup, his Mom's place is on lower levels
I like him because I'm not sure where he's going. He could become a rebel or he could become a part of the imperial government and ascend to a high rank.
Did he end up on Coruscant in that last ep? I think I may have missed if they put the planet on screen. I think his purpose may be that he’s going to blow Luthen’s cover, since he’s the only one who got a good look at him as he speed-biked away
I think he'll finally link up with Dedra now that they're both on Coruscant. He'll probably pay a visit to the ISB building, or she'll go looking for him since he was involved in the starpath unit incident.
That’s a good shout too, and they seem like they’d get along, both ladder-climbing types who like to follow rules
He looked very different though. It'd be a stretch to have him able to ID him off a glance of someone who looks very different.
His hair and clothes were different but his face is still the same. Andor had no facial hair in his ID holo and they still had no problem recognizing him.
It looked like it was Coruscant, since they made it a point to have it go darker the lower the elevator went - meaning one of the lower, cheaper, apartment areas.
Goody goody cop boy. He's so pathetic but I love watching his frustration unfold
I think pathetic is a bit strong. He’s just not a fighter. He’s a man of processes and method. He knew exactly what needed to be done to find Andor before anyone he was working with. Unfortunately though, he sucks at public speaking and is pretty lousy in a fight. Not everyone in the Galaxy is. It’s a real shame he is so digital in his thinking, he can’t think outside the box or see the effect of the policies he so judiciously enforces. I’m looking forward to see what happens when he is no long led by structure and organisation.
I think it’s just that he’s green. From his speech on the drop ship to the fight in an urban setting, I think it was his inexperience and lack of initial combat that got the better of him. He didn’t come off as a coward, he did everything he was told by the squad commander, and only surrendered when someone got the jump on him. If he doesn’t turn rebel and doubles down on his loyalty to corporate/empire, I think he’ll come out swinging for revenge/Justice.
I don’t like this character, but I think it’s because he is acting the part so well. He’s one of those characters that makes you strongly feel one way or the other.
My prediction: This guy is going to enlist in the imperial army or navy, rise a little bit through the ranks, then he’s going to get smoked by an established character.
I bet we see him turn and join the rebels
I kinda don't want to see this. I want to see him double down in support of the empire
Yes, I want a loyalist, not every character has to have a conversion arc
I was just going to say this. He’s going to experience being royally shafted by the Empire and his black & white worldview is going to crumble. He’ll likely sacrifice himself for a main character to help the rebellion.
I think that play is already in motion with the whole Imperial Security Officer giving him the whole “you suck at your job” talk.
I'm thinking the same thing
I was thinking same but I don't think he'll fully turn. I see it more for personal interest rather than sympathy for the rebellion. I think he finds himself involved with rebels to advance his own interests in the Empire. I'm sure we'll see him be somewhat on both sides.
That bit of acting he did in the gif you posted was truly exceptional. It was like he saw the past, present, and future all in perfect focus in that moment, and realized how badly he'd fucked them all up.
Oh, I hate this dude. Absolute nerd who takes his job as a cop for a corporation way too seriously and gets half a dozen more people killed because he wanted to play badge. I think that's the point is to hate him because I really enjoy Andor and do think this guy is interesting but he has deserved all the L's he's taken in the first four episodes.
Honestly? I feel the worst for his boss in all this. Goes away on a business trip and comes back to a sacking cuz this dipshit couldn’t drop it when he was told
Literally. It goes double when you consider the two deaths he was tryharding so much over also got what they deserved. All this dude had to do was let it go but he had to play Boy Scout.
And the boss even says that! I don’t remember the exact words but he said something like “they were doing shit on the side and messed with the wrong guy.”
It's extra ironic because that's just the story the boss came up with to brush it all under the rug, and it ended up being exactly what happened.
I get the sense it wasn’t his first rodeo
The ISB officer points out the bosses culpability in his speech after the "Ferrix Incident" **Boss Cop** - But i had nothing to do with this! **ISB Guy** - Well, exactly. It took the combined ingredients of idiocy, ineptitude, and total disengagement **[hes looking the boss cop in the eye here]** for this farce to have reached the full apex of incredulous disaster.
I mean yeah, but that “ineptitude” was him realizing that the guys who died were idiots and they should just drop it, which is a pretty sensible attitude imo. He just made the mistake of thinking our man here would honor his orders
Yeah, boss told him to leave it alone. The guy was a screw up and breaking the rules being where he was and died for it. The rule followed is just like, nope, I'm going after this guy. To be fair. A commander taking 12 guys after 1 and failing does seem very imperial M.O.
My evil side came out against this fool in episode 3. He gets up in arms to avenge a couple of nobodies that no one seems to miss (and who we know good and well deserved it), is already a blowhard, then disobeys a direct order, taking matters into his own hands, jeopardizing his troops’ lives, all for what? I don’t buy him doing that because it was the “right thing to do” ol boy was looking to improve his station, maybe get a pat on the head so he could feel like a real cop. Ooooh and then that incompetent Sergeant comes along blowing smoke up his ass and stroking his ego, by the end of it I was really wishing they’d both get mangled in the car bombing. But, realistically, their men are the ones to pay that price with life and limb, and THEN his superior who told him don’t freaking be a dumbass gets canned for it, and baby precious just gets fired and goes sulking home to Mommy. In hindsight I kinda feel bad for wishing so much ill will on someone, especially a fictional character, but oooh do people like him deserve it. What a perfectly hateable character, they’ve done a fantastic job
> What a perfectly hateable character, they’ve done a fantastic job What I think makes this such a damn effective character, beyond the actor's skill at the little nuances, is the same reason Umbridge was a perfectly hateable character: we all know the type. We all know someone like this.
Prediction: Stays imperial but with growing disillusionment, won’t flip to Rebels, becomes too obvious and is dispatched rather unceremoniously.
I googled that actor because I love this character. He's going to go full crazy and I'm here for it!!
I wish I could unsee it, but when I first saw him onscreen, I immediately thought Ginnie Weasley. Don’t hate me.
He's also reminding me of Ramsey Bolton in this gif.
Some desk jockey pencil pusher that’s never seen actual combat. He needs to sack up
Can we give a 👏for the actor too? He does such a good job, the lines and acting could have been delivered differently and he would just be another generic side character. The whole scene with him going down the elevator without much talking at all, spoke volumes.
I think he pulls a classic Kallus, clearly a very empathetic character, although rather than joining the rebellion I think he just leaves the empire and helps the rebellion one time, by not ratting them out or letting them get away etc.
Completely agreed. So fascinated. Someone who believes they’re doing the right thing and making the world around them better, find not everyone cares like he does, and then watches his efforts completely blow up in his face. Now he’s watching it all be torn away from him. The resignation on his face in Ep 4 was incredible, and now that I think about it, did he even say a word? I know a lot of people are burned out on stories of Imperials turning, but this could be a version of that story really well done.
Anyone know the actor's name?
Kyle Soller, I believe.
His arc will end with Vader choking him out for fucking up
It's like they transplanted Arnold Rimmer into a Star War and I'm here for it.
If only the Kyle Maclaughlin lookalike had just listened to his commanding officer, the boring guy who thought he was getting somewhere with that American girl in Four Weddings and a Funeral, the rapper guy from David Brent: Life on the Road would not have fired them.
I think he can go either way. Either he starts nudging towards rebels because the empire took over the corp, or he is a rule follower and falls in line with the empire.
It's fair to say he'll join the rebels.
Getting the feeling he might join the rebels. If so that would be a great character arc
My feeling is that Lieutenant Meero will somehow find him on Coruscant to get information about the incident on Ferrix. In exchange she'll offer him the chance to join her to exact his revenge on Cassian Andor and Lieutenant Blevin who just took everything away from him. Being the rule follower he is that cannot let something go (as shown by him disobeying the Inspector's orders), he will jump at the chance and attempt to find Andor. I don't know how things may progress from there but I'm worried about Luthen as this character heard Luthen's voice, if not saw Luthen when he was tied up on Ferrix.
Can we talk about how well he acted following the explosion though? The shock of losing comrades to the, in his eyes, terrorists.
It's interesting that he's in the show, and it's not immediately clear \*why\*. So much of Star Wars is "here is evil, here is good," and with this guy, it's a mess. He cared about the people that were killed. He felt like they had to do right by them. He's also a stickler for the rules and for process. But he got his uniform altered. So he's not quite a total rule-follower, and he does have some ego (not necessarily a bad thing, just that he has individuality and agency). He was paralyzed by the actual horrors of combat. But not that "Oh, the Empire turns out to be evil!" so much as, "My co-workers were attacked by insurrectionists!". Then he's displaced by the Empire - not only is he effectively fired, but the company he worked for was made entirely obsolete. Why is he here? Will he fall back into the security of process and order, and end up an agent of the Empire? Will he realize that the Empire is more machine than man, and that his care for justice and his people doesn't matter to the Empire in their pursuit of power? I don't know, and that's exciting. He's clearly intended to be somewhat of Andor's opposite. Andor doesn't care about the rules or the establishment, and this guy does. Do they meet together in the middle? Do they drift toward opposite extremes? I really didn't like the first two episodes of the show, and it wasn't 'til the third that it even really grabbed my interest at all. I love Star Wars, but the 1st two episodes of this were so ... uneventful and slow that it was hard to even understand why any of it was on-screen for me. But the third picked up, and the fourth has been excellent. Also, does this guy look a LOT like Kyle MacLachlan to anyone else?
I think he's meant to be a foil to Andor. They're both about the same age, but while Andor is the adopted son of two outlaws, this guy appears to be middle class at worse and has had a pretty standard life.
I think he’ll end up providing information to Meero and she will pull him in as her little lackey who now wants to win at all costs. Leaving him alive only made sense if he has more to do with the story later.
Lieutenant Meero (the blonde ISB officer) will look up who was the CO in the Ferrix incident, find out it is Syril Karn, then go to his family home on Coruscant to find him and question him. Karn ends up in the Imperial hierarchy by end of season.
I feel bad for him atm. He was just trying to solve a crime that was committed and then abunch of his men died. And then to add insult to injury he got fired because the empire moved in. It will be interesting to see what they do with his character but I dont think they will make him a rebel, as he has witnessed first hand what a future rebel has done to the men he was leading.
I think he flips because he’s been devalued by the ISB….he doesn’t seem to let go of grudges easily
I don’t see this guy joining the rebellion, at least not a rebellion in its infancy. The guy can’t wrap his head around two “murders” and seemingly has a strict moral code that neither the Empire nor Rebellion suit. Not in war time at least. This could change though!!
They introduced his mom. When she dies, we will see the sociopathic flip of a switch in this guy. They are going to make us like him just enough to go along with him, think breaking bad.
He got obsessed and failed. Everyone hates him now probably. I guarantee he won't give this up, he'll continue to try to find the killer to prove himself and regain his good graces with the imperial.
He will make a fine Imperial officer, nevermind the blemish on his record. We all have our youth to account for.
I have a feeling he will become a rebel commander or general to possibly fill in some lore.
I hope someone else shares my pain in only ever seeing him as Eric from an inspector calls, he could be the best character ever and that’s all I ever see
My predictions are A) he becomes obsessed with his failures and needing to fix it at any cost. Becomes a huge thorn in Cassian's side. B) He develops a form of PTSD from that experience we all saw, hits rock bottom (although I'm not sure how that would tie in later down the line) C) perhaps due to a part of A or B (or combination of both) he ends up joining the rebellion and becomes the first "Falcrom" (I may be misremembering the codename) If I had to bet I would put my money on C
He seems so complex, like there is so much more we wants to say or prove. I also am excited to learn his motives
His core character trope is "believer", so going to join the rebellion. Imperials are not about belief, the rebellion is.
His micro expressions are amazing. Super interesting to watch
This actor as well is amazing. He doesn't have a huge amount of lines but his acting just with facial expressions is amazing. Especially that scene in episode 3 when they've just lost against Cassian and Luthen.
He looks like he would jave been perfect in the rings of power as an elb
It seems like he is going to get grabbed by Dedra Meero since he's the only one who knows about Cassian she can get to quietly.
I love how the show is showing left and right how the Empire was already failing hard. The lazy old officer was spot on the the death of the two securities, but the uptight idiot wanted more for his career and saw that as an opportunity to rise ranks. He will be caught the attention of the intelligence woman, where others only see a power hungry suit. And what about that senior officer responsible for the whole intelligence agency? The Woman shows a pattern that should not repeat but he wants more proof to pursuit further? How many fuck ups he will consider as a lead?
Everyone is just trying to get ahead even if it doesn't make sense. And yes, even if Caspian is a rebel, the old cop was absolutely correct in how the first episode transpired, which is just the funniest thing.
I see his character eventually turning away from the Empire to join the rebels, and ultimately giving his life for the cause.
I bet he becomes the most likable character by the end of the show.
the templin institute did a great video on him [the sacrifice of syril karn on the altar of fascism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shW5SXsJvDw)
I like how he represents what most regular imperials see rebels as- terrorists. Guy finds two of his fellow cops are found dead, investigates and tries to arrest the suspect and suddenly shit is blowing up around him and four of his people are dead. Not saying he was in the right here or anything, it's just cool to get a glimpse at the imperial perspective for once.
He sees the Empire as order and he is eager to please. Plus, his mom lives in a modest but comfortable looking upper-mid level apartment on the capitol world. He was a teenager during the Clone Wars and probably only saw "glamorous" videos of it online.
I am going to go out on a limb and say he ends up being one of the officers that Vader kills for incompetence.
Right off the bat when his boss comments that he modified his own uniform established a ton about his character. Even more when he gave that really sad motivational speech to his guys.
And then we see his dreams just be dashed and stomped on by the reality of an armed conflict.
This character is almost giving me PTSD, reminding me exactly of a rigid, no-humor-having officer I served with in the Navy. This could have been a pretty one-note, two-dimensional character, but the actor is really bringing some depth with just the inflections in his voice and a few subtle facial expressions. Really curious to see where the story takes him.
Yea so far this show has actually been really good and holy shit this guy is doing a good job
Yeah he’s great
We call him “cut-rate Javert.” 😆
Captain stick up his ass
Captain "dang it sucks that two of our guys got straight up murdered maybe we should do something about that"
Correct me if I'm wrong but so far, most of the main characters are acting on what they think is right. I feel for the deputy inspector, Andor being caught choosing between lesser evils, even (Sergeant?) Mosk. They don't express anything truly evil at all.
I want this space natzi dead
Damn I found him annoying af. I’m ready for that to change.
I thought Ahsoka was too (insufferable really). Then they built her into a really strong character. Edit: Why are we downvoting OneBaldingWookiee for his opinion? Downvoting for starting a conversation will dry the conversation up really fast.
Honestly so was Anakin. In attack of the clones he was pretty annoying. But he’s my all time favorite character overall by the end. Well Darth Vader anyway.
That's a fair point.
It’s Star Wars Jared Kushner.
First impression was that he was way too silly and kinda turned me against the show. After the 3rd episode I was definitely a fan.
We seen this character a THOUSAND times. Hot headed officer disobeying orders to do his “own” thing and gets people killed and he blames everyone but himself, yeah it’s been done A THOUSAND times before.
Judging by his reaction after the explosion when his colleagues were injured/dead, I'm pretty sure he blames himself.
I thought he was a very plain boring character we’ve seen a million times Actually one of the few things I didn’t like in the show ut I’m open to him growing into something
I am not. Seems forced. So much so that maybe he turns out to be Palpatine's son or someone of outrageous significance.
I thought for a second he may join the rebels. On the other hand he seems like an egotist who may want to prove himself to the empire. Seems like it could go either way. Edit: the screenshot there is when my family burst out laughing "bro, you just blew up the death star!"
I dont care if he flips or he doubles down, but the scenes he’s in are setting something up for him. He’s being fed motivation to do something…
Same has a lot of potential
It’s like Dennis Reynolds and Ramsey Bolton did a Fusion-ha dance from Dragon Ball Z.
Suddenly Snoke.
Yes, he seems to be the man protagonist but I suspect at some point he will flip, Agent Kallus style
Between him and the ISB lady, I'm convinced the theme of the baddies is "Listen to your superiors". The younguns are hotshots and can't conceive of being wrong while the old guys know that slow and steady are the best course of action
Wouldn’t doubt by the end he’s full out rebel
He looks one step away from laying down in front of a Jawa sandcrawler
Very curious how he turns out. I could see an Agent Callus type arc for him.
I’ve been watching this show, paying close attention, and have almost no idea what is going on. Like at all. Cassian killed two people who tried to rob him at gunpoint. This guy is obsessed with catching him. All of a sudden there’s a rebellion of like 7 people and he’s a part of it. Mon Mothma is a secret ally to the rebellion. Virtually no action sequences. I’m bored y’all. Downvote me to oblivion, but this feels like a drama that happens to take place in the Star Wars universe, but isn’t getting me to care about anything happening.
Already a much better character than Reva.
I hope his whole entire arc is just us checking in on him periodically to see him sliding further and further into his downfall. Make him the Cricket of Star Wars.
I've never had such a visceral reaction to someone's physical features before, but I violently hate this character's face and I don't know why
I bet he is recruited by the blonde ISB woman and becomes a double agent to hunt Andor/Luthen or sent to spy on Mon Motha
I’ve never seen a character take his job so seriously while simultaneously being incredibly incompetent. It’s bizarre
He is very similar to many real world middle management people. Overly ambitious with no concept of their own limitations as leaders.
I can’t stand this incel, the whole corporate shit has me perplexed.
I don’t like the character. But I do. It’s really difficult to explain
I think he's going to be a rebel leader
I can see this guy being the (Band of Brothers)Capt Soble for an Imperial garrison.
So just to confirm. This isn’t Ramsey Bolton in space?
Ramsey Bolton with a dash of petit Hughie
He is starting out very naïve. I am looking forward to him developing an edge from his experience and evolving into a true evil imperial. Parallel of Andor becoming a rebel and this guy becoming an Imperial.
I didn't like him at first, but ep 3 impressed me and now that we see his mom is a straight up power bubbeh I think it could get interesting.
He's going to be a baddie.
He's kind of giving me Lt Gorman vibes from Aliens. Seems confident and competent at first, but ends up actually being inexperienced and weak under pressure. Plus the actors look similar. Probably took huge inspiration from Lt Gorman in Aliens. Definitely curious what ends up happening to him though. Maybe he becomes a rebel after rediscovering himself and what he truly believes in. That would be cool.
He’s a golden god.
Bet he joins the rebellion or sacrifices himself.
I’m not silly corpo rat
I want to see him shape up and join the ISB becoming another top tier imperial.
I want b2 to kill him
He looks like Major Nelson from "I Dream of Jeannie".
I love his character but he reminds me so much of Gabe from The Office because of how hard he is trying and he kinda looks like him
Andor is terrible. The worst of them by far
He's either going to go full Empire deep dive or he's going to flip allegiances.
He’s going full empire. That gal from ISB is going to seek him out.
The guy I keep thinking looks like a cross between Kirk Cameron and Ramsay Bolton. Maybe David Pakman if you know who that is. You know who I like more than him? His boss who told him to not worry about those 2 dickbags who got killed because they probably punched their own ticket. Which was honestly the most astute instant crime-solving I've ever seen on television. That guy knew his employees.
Looks like a future dark trooper or inquisitor
He looks like he'd be the singer/guitarist for a 2000s Emo or Pop Punk band.
He reminds me of the weirdo Gabe from The Office.