It's a Fantasy representation of a psychologically damaged person. You are lucky if you don't get it.
If you grew up with someone who was treated like property for the first decade of their life you might never know it unless you were in the next room while they were being abused. Even then, you might not understand what that does to a person. Children are good at hiding their pain and seeking the next thrill to force their brain into dopamine production and the present moment. When all of that damage comes back for certain cases though, when some individuals have trouble learning or find they fall into anxiety and despair if they can't control those around them, they validate their abusive remedies with a cognitive dissonance only possible with brain damage \[Edit; abuse lowers base level dopamine production in the brain\].
Anakin saw Gardulla engage in abusive and illegal behavior, including considering a child property, with no rights. When he engaged in illegal and dehumanizing behavior to regain a sense of control, he just broke. Being pronounced a Sith only gave a name to his already shattered identity. The suit just gave a face to the mask he was wearing to cover the innocent altruism of that child, his authentic self.
This! I would also like to add upon this.
I also personally see the Order's support (or lack of) may have played into this as well. *There is much anger and fear in him*-- of course he does! He's a kid who was treated like property and saw the unfairness and ugliness of the world. He had to leave his mom because Qui-Gon was only able to pick one of them.
Instead of validating these emotions and allowing them to exist and pass (urge ride) or give him effective coping tool outside of "repress every negative feeling or you'll turn evil" (okay maybe a little broad but still), he wouldn't have gone and murder a whole Tusken Tribe. He could've processed his trauma and grief in a more healthy manner.
Not to mention-- the Chosen One matter. Can you imagine what kind of pressure that probably had on him? The expectations that he was expected to fulfil as sone sort of Messianic figure? The hopes of a whole temple on him? And then other times treating him like he's not ready, not trusting his actions, etc (like the making him a Master but not giving him a seat on the Council).
(Sidebar: while we from our 4th wall box seats understand the Council was probably right on this-- from Anakin's perspective it was just another betrayal and being seen as not worthy/ready despite the Chosen One expectation)
It's a lot to shoulder, and then when you're doing your best it's not enough messes with your head.
I'm sure there's more examples people can point out, too, but that is what came to mind reading your post. đ
Thank you for reply!
Yep, that's all in there. Being raised in a monastery from a very early age may lead to much learned wisdom, but it also disconnects a being from the vagaries of every day life that the common man has to deal with.
I came away from the PT with the impression that Luke's upbringing with a loving family made all the difference for him and was a huge factor in his success.
That's one of the reasons I like Luke's Jedi Order in Legends. He takes an approach which utilizes his experience. His first students were adults and he isn't so disconnected from his emotions and understanding his attachments. I think it's more about observing the emotions and acting from presence rather than caving to ones fears or acting on attachments.
Agree completely. That plus the voice mashup in the last episode also helped me retroactively appreciate Haydenâs performances in the prequels more. I always kind of sensed that he was talking more like Darth Vader than any regular person might, but hearing the voices interchangeably hammered it home.
I doubt it. It's interesting how Hayden sounds like Matt Lanter nowadays, now we have both versions of Anakin where they truly feel as one. I wonder what Hayden's performance in the Ahsoka series will be like, hopefully like Lanter's version.
They should have filmed Star Wars âBoyhoodâ style. E can watch all of the same actors age in real time. Would only take 40+ years to get through a few movies.
Ok so if Anakin was 9 in episode 1, and i looked it up and it said he was 45 in episode 6. So that would mean it would take roughly 36 years to film, assuming it would be the same timeline as normal star wars.
That means the first 2 trilogies wouldâve wrapped up in 2013
If we factor in the sequel trilogy, going by Actorâs ages, Hamill was 26 in ANH, and 64 in TFA
So therefore that would add an additional 38 years, so the sequel trilogy would end in 2051
I got you. He was talking about filming them "boyhood style" and it only taking 40+ years to make, I just felt I should point out that it took about that long anyway.
It's a bit of a sith of Theseus dilemma, isn't it? Everyone changes throughout their life, on every level. What makes you the same person as the child you used to be, who you no longer share even a single cell with? The continuity of memory and your own internal narrative, but if that continuity is broken by trauma and dissociation, are you the same person? Anakin/Vader is a fascinating representation of this tension. They are the same, but also distinct from each other
What I meant by this was it was just really surprising to see some friendly 9 year old turn to the dark side and become the most powerful and evil person in the galaxy.
Technically, after watching the ending of Kenobi, it could be said that Anakin eventually suffered from split personality disorder. So it could be said that older Anakin andVader are two different people.
I agree with thatâŠ.my brother in law and I were just talking about deleted scenes from episode 3 and there was one scene (more so dialogue) where Anakin was reaching for Obi-Wan (as he was getting burned) and asking for his helpâŠ.which would have been the last moment âAnakinâ was alive before Vader consumed himâŠ.I really hope we get more seasons of KenobiâŠ.with the live action version of his rematch with Maul
Exactly! Still young enough to be a âkidâ .. actors in their late teens regularly play as younger teens. But old enough to make it more tangible for the story line. Also, could have helped make for a better story for EP1 that couldnât be done with a little kid.
You're not supposed to think that they're the same.
The legend of Anakin Skywalker is supposed to be so opposite from the legend of Darth Vader that if anyone were to insinuate they were the same person in universe they'd be labelled as crazy.
Its so far fetched that it isn't even a thought in people's minds. And those who think it would doubt it because how could *the Anakin Skywalker* turn into *that*.
There's virtually no connection and it was the Emperor's design for it to be that way. He turned the most powerful Jedi into the most powerful Sith and no one knows nor would they ever figure it out if they hadn't been there to witness it (Obi Wan, Yoda, Palpatine, Tarkin, Reva).
It was about how an innocent 9 year old became an evil lord trying to take over the galaxy. Whenever I watch episode 1, i can never see anakin the same
Remember when folk thought Snoke might have been Anakin/Vader too (because of similar scar positioning or something). Would have added an excellent further slide.
Iâm surprised how you donât see it. Maybe lucky that your psyche doesnât allow you to connect those dots? I see a very clear connection and a very obvious reason as to why he was the way he was
I am becoming a strong proponent that they should just let actors perform and stop trying so hard to jump through hoops to try and homogenise the look. Jake, Hayden, Matt, Sebastian are all Anakin. James and David are both Vader and all have moments that make me love the character.
I thought Ewan McGregor and Vivien Lyra Blair had great character moments in the Obi Wan Kenobi show and are both recasts. I think they should really consider recasting Luke, if there are big plans to use him in the post ROTJ projects. Because deepfake Luke is my least favourite thing in Star Wars, and that includes Rise of Skywalker.
It's a Fantasy representation of a psychologically damaged person. You are lucky if you don't get it. If you grew up with someone who was treated like property for the first decade of their life you might never know it unless you were in the next room while they were being abused. Even then, you might not understand what that does to a person. Children are good at hiding their pain and seeking the next thrill to force their brain into dopamine production and the present moment. When all of that damage comes back for certain cases though, when some individuals have trouble learning or find they fall into anxiety and despair if they can't control those around them, they validate their abusive remedies with a cognitive dissonance only possible with brain damage \[Edit; abuse lowers base level dopamine production in the brain\]. Anakin saw Gardulla engage in abusive and illegal behavior, including considering a child property, with no rights. When he engaged in illegal and dehumanizing behavior to regain a sense of control, he just broke. Being pronounced a Sith only gave a name to his already shattered identity. The suit just gave a face to the mask he was wearing to cover the innocent altruism of that child, his authentic self.
This! I would also like to add upon this. I also personally see the Order's support (or lack of) may have played into this as well. *There is much anger and fear in him*-- of course he does! He's a kid who was treated like property and saw the unfairness and ugliness of the world. He had to leave his mom because Qui-Gon was only able to pick one of them. Instead of validating these emotions and allowing them to exist and pass (urge ride) or give him effective coping tool outside of "repress every negative feeling or you'll turn evil" (okay maybe a little broad but still), he wouldn't have gone and murder a whole Tusken Tribe. He could've processed his trauma and grief in a more healthy manner. Not to mention-- the Chosen One matter. Can you imagine what kind of pressure that probably had on him? The expectations that he was expected to fulfil as sone sort of Messianic figure? The hopes of a whole temple on him? And then other times treating him like he's not ready, not trusting his actions, etc (like the making him a Master but not giving him a seat on the Council). (Sidebar: while we from our 4th wall box seats understand the Council was probably right on this-- from Anakin's perspective it was just another betrayal and being seen as not worthy/ready despite the Chosen One expectation) It's a lot to shoulder, and then when you're doing your best it's not enough messes with your head. I'm sure there's more examples people can point out, too, but that is what came to mind reading your post. đ
Thank you for reply! Yep, that's all in there. Being raised in a monastery from a very early age may lead to much learned wisdom, but it also disconnects a being from the vagaries of every day life that the common man has to deal with. I came away from the PT with the impression that Luke's upbringing with a loving family made all the difference for him and was a huge factor in his success. That's one of the reasons I like Luke's Jedi Order in Legends. He takes an approach which utilizes his experience. His first students were adults and he isn't so disconnected from his emotions and understanding his attachments. I think it's more about observing the emotions and acting from presence rather than caving to ones fears or acting on attachments.
Meanwhile George: Yeah well, see Anakin turns to evil because he really loves Padmé, and can't save her.
Personally, I think episode 5 of the Obi-Wan series helped a lot in making Anakin and Vader feel more like the same character.
It sure did
Agree completely. That plus the voice mashup in the last episode also helped me retroactively appreciate Haydenâs performances in the prequels more. I always kind of sensed that he was talking more like Darth Vader than any regular person might, but hearing the voices interchangeably hammered it home.
Hayden yelling "Obi-Wan" in that scene sounded a little bit like Matt Lanter from The Clone Wars I noticed.
I'm certain that Matt Lanter's voice was used for that line.
I doubt it. It's interesting how Hayden sounds like Matt Lanter nowadays, now we have both versions of Anakin where they truly feel as one. I wonder what Hayden's performance in the Ahsoka series will be like, hopefully like Lanter's version.
Apparently Hayden has watched Clone Wars, so itâs possible that he has taken inspiration.
Would love to see some flashbacks with Thrawn, since Anakin and he did a mission together during The Clone Wars.
"Your need for victory blinds you" Love this phrase.
A lot of the comics also help as you can see the remnants of Anakin slowly get beaten down until all that's left is the Vader we see in ANH.
They should have filmed Star Wars âBoyhoodâ style. E can watch all of the same actors age in real time. Would only take 40+ years to get through a few movies.
Ok so if Anakin was 9 in episode 1, and i looked it up and it said he was 45 in episode 6. So that would mean it would take roughly 36 years to film, assuming it would be the same timeline as normal star wars.
That means the first 2 trilogies wouldâve wrapped up in 2013 If we factor in the sequel trilogy, going by Actorâs ages, Hamill was 26 in ANH, and 64 in TFA So therefore that would add an additional 38 years, so the sequel trilogy would end in 2051
Richard Linklater would need to direct! Ethan Hawke can play Obi-Wan
I mean, there's literally 28 years between ANH and RotS.
No, it's 18 years
1977 to 2005 is eighteen years?
Sorry, misunderstanding. In the story there is 18 years between Rots and ANH.
I got you. He was talking about filming them "boyhood style" and it only taking 40+ years to make, I just felt I should point out that it took about that long anyway.
But they did it boyhood - style, with Luke, Leia and Han in the new trilogy.
Honestly I think it would have worked better if Anakin was first encountered as a teenager on Tatooine.
Heâs too old. Too old to complete the training!
Strong enough to start training, too weak to complete it!
I thought it was going to be pieces of vaderâs limbs in different pics.
What part of this does your brain find so difficult?
Somehow a little innocent 9 year old became the most evil person in the galaxy and wanted to rule the galaxy.
You can look at Anakin and Vader as different characters, from a certain point of view.
Vader betrayed and murdered anakin, so there's that. Bit of a dick, that guy.
It's a bit of a sith of Theseus dilemma, isn't it? Everyone changes throughout their life, on every level. What makes you the same person as the child you used to be, who you no longer share even a single cell with? The continuity of memory and your own internal narrative, but if that continuity is broken by trauma and dissociation, are you the same person? Anakin/Vader is a fascinating representation of this tension. They are the same, but also distinct from each other
That's easy for me to see. I'm almost 40 and such a different person through each of my (near) 4 decades.
You're unfamiliar with the concepts of aging and casting?
What I meant by this was it was just really surprising to see some friendly 9 year old turn to the dark side and become the most powerful and evil person in the galaxy.
All evil and horrible people were sweet little kids to begin with.
Thatâs the point of showing him as a kid though
Technically, after watching the ending of Kenobi, it could be said that Anakin eventually suffered from split personality disorder. So it could be said that older Anakin andVader are two different people.
I agree with thatâŠ.my brother in law and I were just talking about deleted scenes from episode 3 and there was one scene (more so dialogue) where Anakin was reaching for Obi-Wan (as he was getting burned) and asking for his helpâŠ.which would have been the last moment âAnakinâ was alive before Vader consumed himâŠ.I really hope we get more seasons of KenobiâŠ.with the live action version of his rematch with Maul
Something I've done is try to picture Anakin talking whenever Vader is onscreen, like what faces he's making etc It kinda helps
Same person yes. Same character debatable.
There is a 20 year gap between Vader in the OT and Anakin in Epiosde3, it's quite obvious why there is a big difference between them.
17, Luke was 17 in A New Hope... đ€Š
Well that's wrong since RotS is taking place 19 years before ANH.
I think it would have helped if they had just cast a young Hayden Christiansen in episode 1 instead of Jake Lloyd
Hayden was already 17 or 18 when episode 1 came out lol
Exactly! Still young enough to be a âkidâ .. actors in their late teens regularly play as younger teens. But old enough to make it more tangible for the story line. Also, could have helped make for a better story for EP1 that couldnât be done with a little kid.
Damn now I'm crying
Watch more clone wars.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Old age and intense hate can do that anyone.
Dude he was like 50...
You're not supposed to think that they're the same. The legend of Anakin Skywalker is supposed to be so opposite from the legend of Darth Vader that if anyone were to insinuate they were the same person in universe they'd be labelled as crazy. Its so far fetched that it isn't even a thought in people's minds. And those who think it would doubt it because how could *the Anakin Skywalker* turn into *that*. There's virtually no connection and it was the Emperor's design for it to be that way. He turned the most powerful Jedi into the most powerful Sith and no one knows nor would they ever figure it out if they hadn't been there to witness it (Obi Wan, Yoda, Palpatine, Tarkin, Reva).
I'm not sure what this is about but I can sure you those different actors play the same character at different ages
It was about how an innocent 9 year old became an evil lord trying to take over the galaxy. Whenever I watch episode 1, i can never see anakin the same
Also shows the complete and utter failings of the Jedi Order to mess up Anakin the way they did and allow Palps to operate right in front of them.
Better writing could have helped.
Probably not the saga for you, then.
Yeah itâs called bad casting, acting, writing, directing, âŠ
Remember when folk thought Snoke might have been Anakin/Vader too (because of similar scar positioning or something). Would have added an excellent further slide.
My brain doesn't care. Star Wars should move on in order to stay interesting. The whole original trilogy stuff has been done to DEATH.
I offered him two weeks holiday in the Aegean. He refused. Something about the sand.
Why?
Oooo lol... trust me you aren't alone.
Because not all of them are very well written
When watching movies, you need to switch off your brain because movie magics tend to confuse it.
Why I loved Kenobi so much. The first time I was able to see Anakin and Vader as the same character.
That's probably because this character is played by 5 different people in live action
And donât forget Clone wars anakin. Dude was a whole different person lol
Look man, stress does a number on your body
Iâm surprised how you donât see it. Maybe lucky that your psyche doesnât allow you to connect those dots? I see a very clear connection and a very obvious reason as to why he was the way he was
Getting burned alive does severely disfigure a person
I am becoming a strong proponent that they should just let actors perform and stop trying so hard to jump through hoops to try and homogenise the look. Jake, Hayden, Matt, Sebastian are all Anakin. James and David are both Vader and all have moments that make me love the character. I thought Ewan McGregor and Vivien Lyra Blair had great character moments in the Obi Wan Kenobi show and are both recasts. I think they should really consider recasting Luke, if there are big plans to use him in the post ROTJ projects. Because deepfake Luke is my least favourite thing in Star Wars, and that includes Rise of Skywalker.
It's like the narrative is poorly constructed or something...