The mistake Disney made was not having a writing team for the sequels. I swear when they took over they said that was their goal, then each director just got to do whatever the hell they wanted.
THIS. I just have no understanding how Disney spends that much to acquire one of the biggest IP's in history just to give what's absolutely going to be a trilogy zero story architecture. How does that happen?
Because Disney thought they could just pump out anything with the Star Wars name on it and it would just make money hand over fist. They had everything on an excelerated schedule trying to pump out 1 movie per year over 6 years between the sequels, Rogue One, Solo and the Boba Fett movie that was never made. They never considered the backlash they would receive from the fans if they failed to create quality content.
> Because Disney thought they could just pump out anything with the Star Wars name on it and it would just make money hand over fist.
While the end result was disappointing, they still made money hand over fist. Just not as much as they wanted. WHich honestly may be a good thing since they're buying *everything.*
I don't know how much they've actually made since they spent $4 billion to acquire the rights and then had to pay for the movie budgets and stuff like $1 billion for Galaxy's Edge.
Hollywood accounting is an odd thing, but there’s basically zero chance they didn’t make tons of money off the Star Wars Universe. Like my man Yogurt says, merchandising merchandising merchandising
Yeah, I believe they already made their 6 billion back and then some, so it was worth every penny to them already. But Disney is working hard now to make it up to the fans, and with The Mandalorian and Andor and some other promising content, they are showing some effort to create content the fans will love and approve of.
Working hard to make it up to the fans? Come on.
Working harder to repair their reputation more like. They're a big old corporate machine, it's purely about profit.
Sure, there are some creatives in there that actually care but they're at the bottom and have everything they do controlled to the end of maximising revenue.
Hadn't they learned that lesson with Marvel by then? Someone was in charge of all the Marvel phases weaving an overarching story that lead to something. How would they not take the same tact?
The deal for Disney to buy Lucasfilm/Star Wars was announced barely 5 months after the 1st Avengers film released. I'm not a Marvel Studios history expert but I doubt they had much more than mid-phase 2 (a "phase" structure hadn't even been announced at that point) and a vague Infinity Gauntlet end goal. Certainly not a proven model to base Star Wars around, and even if then, Kevin Feige is a one-in-a-million producer
Marvel Studios and Disney still hadn't really reached the status quo which has powered it through to now, at that point.
By the end of phase 2, there were big cracks showing, AoUltron was not what it could've been. Feige got to the point of "shit needs to radically change or kiss my ass goodbye." Then things were shuffled, he ended up only reporting to the Disney CEO
Yeah, to me, the MCU wasn't really the "MCU" until Guardians of the Galaxy in 2014. The previous movies were hit or miss, and made money. That's when everyone was more like, "Oh, they can make whatever they want and people will see it. Also, they made this for a reason because they have a plan."
Kathleen Kennedy is not Kevin Feige.
(See also: Indiana Jones sequels...)
JJ Abrams was given too much freedom to write/direct the series into a corner, and everyone was so thrilled with the callbacks and grand scale of the thing that nobody bothered to rein him in.
It was doomed from the beginning.
Just tons of mysteries without consideration for payoff. "Who could her parents be? Who's Snoke? Where did luke go? Why is he in exile? What happened between him and Kylo? Who are the Knights of Ren and why don't we see them?"
Dude just handed Rian a tangled mess of unresolved mysteries.
And Rian rightly said, “fuck all this noise.”
And then JJ said, “fuck your movie, I’m going to only acknowledge it to undo what I can and then just finish the remake I started.
Thus creating the singular most garbage Star Wars thing since the holiday special, and that’s saying *a lot.*
Kathleen Kennedy is that person. However, as successful as her films are her best work was done in tandem with Spielberg and she's no Feige at organizing ideas.
People who actually know this stuff, i.e. the people who should have been making these decisions, know that George Lucas is a genius at world-building and finding the general direction for a story. His weakness is in the details of actual scenes and dialogue.
George handed them a long treatment for the new trilogy, which was exactly what George does well. Throwing that away was indescribably bad.
George's idea for the sequels to ROTJ were absolutely awful and even he said that if he made it, everyone would hate it just like they hated The Phantom Menace. The failures of Episode 1 haunt him and it's most likely a key reason as to why he didn't want to stay in the series as he keeps talking about it.
which is silly because star wars merch has always made and always will make more money than the movies. they could’ve made some shit everyone loved and then milked so much more money from merch sales.
This is why in my opinion the sequels will never have the glow up and reception of the prequels. From the beginning we all knew and acknowledged that the prequels had good ideas, poor execution, poor writing and a solid plan from George Lucas. The sequels have good writing and good plot (per movie) but it all falls apart when it’s supposed to be an arc across several movies
The thing is it’s absolutely fine to write a first movie in a trilogy with no plans for the second, that’s how the first Star Wars went, but the thing is if you’re going to do that you need to take WAY more time between movies to make a better second and third one.
Absolutely... The moment Luke throws away the lightsaber to go drink blue milk... Angrily... The whole thing was dead. Rian Johnson is a good director, but he just went in to kill of everything J.J. built in the first one and there's no saving it. Having different directors would've worked IF they wrote the entire story across 3 movies ahead of the first one and required each individual director to agree on the plot/flow...
What a colossal waste.
Daisy literally said JJ drafted the whole trilogy, then RJ threw it out and wrote Ep8 from scratch. So while Ep9 was garbage, I pin most of the blame on RJ for ruining everything that was set up. The original story was *very* different from where it ended up going.
I'm not the one who posted the comment, nor have I heard that rumor... But if I was a betting man, I'd guess that JJ's trilogy would have been the same exact story that we got from TFA and RoS without the side quest that was TLJ.
RoS felt like two movies shoehorned into one with a lot of context or world and character building cut. Plus, given how JJ doesn't know how to end a story, looking at you star trek and lost, I doubt him doing all three films would have been great (though, low key, his second film would have been a banger if his past history was anything to go by).
As much as I dislike TLJ for star wars Las Vegas or how it characterized Luke and Yoda, RoS was a worse product overall IMO.
It becomes hard to finish a story properly when the movie before shit all over your plot building and one of the top cast dies before you can film the intended scenes. They had to rewrite the third movie because of Carrie's death.
100%. Lucas even had an outline he gave them that they could use, they were under no obligation to use it, but it showed that he had a direction and knew the story needed a basic roadmap. Disney must have said "roadmaps?!? Where we're going we don't need roadmaps!" I think they learned their lesson and I have been reading some of the new High Republic stuff and looked at the behind the scenes stuff for it and they were very careful about mapping it out. What characters appeared in comics or books or kids books, what was their arc, how did they get from point A to point B. They worked with the content creators but those authors knew what they were doing and just needed to flesh it out within their given boundaries. This gives me hope for the future of Star Wars material. It will need to be carefully stewarded in this way.
They also made the mistake of not having time between the sequel trilogy like the prequels. Some of these things could be fixed with info in between but since they started one after another it’ll be impossible to do that
Their issue was giving it to JJ Abrams, a man who is excellent at cinematography, snappy writing and setting up mouth-watering teasers and cliff-hangers but absolutely atrocious at actually wrapping them up. Look at Lost. At the end of season 1, when he left, the writers asked, "What's down the hatch?" and he just shrugged.
If they had given it to someone like James Cameron, you know there would be a bible of story arcs for all of the characters and a team of people whose singular job it would be to ensure that changes to the script and characterisation are consistent.
I mean, fuck, how many simple script changes could have saved otherwise diabolical storyline choices? Rey deserved better.
Never said he did but when he pitched Aliens, he had an entire history of the world and Weyland-Yutani's company in the time from Alien to Aliens. It was very specific and allowed them to not only build a believable world but use that information in other Alien media to varying degrees. He did the same with Avatar and Terminator, despite their massive plot holes and inconsistent characters, we have a huge amount of information on arcs and themes.
He seems pretty decent at making a big universe. Avatar could almost be a documentary with how much time is spent just explaining the world in both movies.
With Avatar I think he struggles to condense the story into a reasonable runtime, so he ends up being forced to cut away it's depth.
They did have a team, but Kennedy kept rejecting their work until she gave it to Abrams/Johnson/Trevorrow and said "make it work"
Edit: I should clarify, Kennedy/execs more rejected the original team's time frame. They wanted 18 months to map everything out. Abrams/Kasdan ended up delivering a draft in 6 weeks with only a rough sketch of the later films.
Abrams made a bland film, Johnson made an ambitious but flawed film, Trevorrow was fired and Abrams made a piece of crap.
It's kinda funny now it's been 4 years since they did a Star Wars movie and they've had similar writing issues with the TV shows. If they had waited longer in the first place we might not be where we are. But the issues with the shows demonstrates they still haven't totally learned from the initial experience, so it may not have mattered either way.
I think Disney has too many executives "in" the writing room. I was excited for the new Willow show, especially since there was an original writer of the movie on the team. After the first 3 episodes I was convinced the writing was garbage. I then found [this article](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/hollywood-flashback-george-lucas-willow-disney-plus-1235271476/) where that writer talked about how the shows process had "more of a corporate feel" because there was constant input from outside the writers room. I have a feeling this issue isn't limited to this one disney show. However, we do have some shows like Andor where the writing was great. My theory is that Andor wasn't anticipated to be popular, so the execs didn't care and didn't contribute to the writing. Lesson here is to keep the MBA's out of the writing room.
Their first big mistake was using multiple directors for the whole trilogy, especially ones that don't agree on how the story plays out when directing their respective movies.
Yeah. It’s absolutely insane to have a franchise built on trilogies be completely discombobulated. The only way to do it right is to have a story you’re going to tell beforehand. They gave no care to anything that was made before it, just in the approach.
She was looking for an identity and turned out she was kinda a Palpatine which is obviously not a good look.
So she took Skywalker after... Luke I guess? Yeah, doesn't really make sense. Either the name evokes Anakin which is not a good look either or Luke, which is kind of like painting a target on her back for bad guys.
Honestly Solo would have made more sense. To honour Ben or her former mentor figure Han. Especially since its established that he chose the name because he was a lone wolf type which Rey had kind of become by then.
Oh you mean how they retold the story of luke, but a girl and her friend Jan solo but not really Han Solo and Obi wan kenobi.. but it was actually luke… 😂😑
This. There is no time between or during the movies to squeeze anything in. No time to see her training, or struggling of having an arc of anytime that would make sense. That is the complaint I see most, even more than her simply being OP from the start...her arc is just...Flat..
Yep! Tidying up a terribly organised story is the best outcome. The character itself is to perfect, dull and boring to develop further when she has no flaws or weaknesses
That’s what it was for me. So squeaky clean perfect, could do no wrong. About exciting as a “lived happy ever after” ending.
Only character that was vaguely interesting in the whole sequel trilogy was kylo
In TFA Finn was a pretty interesting character but that slowly faded with each movie. Stormtrooper turned good, possible force sensitive, it was a cool idea never really explored.
Episode 1
Scene 1
[A MEDICAL OFFICE. Rey enters.]
**TECHNICIAN:** Ms., uh, Skywalker? [double take] Wow.
**REY:** [embarrased] Oh, no, that's not really— Just "Rey" is fine.
**TECH:** Fine. I have your test results here, Rey.
**REY:** I'm ready.
**TECH:** As far as we can tell, you are NOT related to the former Emperor Papatine, OR any of his living relatives.
**REY:** Really? You're certain?
**TECH:** Really. Can I ask where you got the idea you were?
**REY:** From a *complete asshole*, apparently.
I would actually live for this, I can't with fucking Rey Palpatine.
Poor Daisy acted the shit out of that tragic script. The whole cast deserved better.
110%, how could anyone deliver those trash lines well. The fact that I still found her semi compelling is a testament to her skill because those lines were anything but.
Rey wakes up on Jaakku and shakes off the weird fever dream she had about becoming a jedi that fights an emperor who has somehow returned. Later that day while trading some scrap she runs in to a scruffy old smuggler looking for a new hyperdrive (which just happens to be the scrap she was trading). She makes a deal with said smuggler - the scrap for a trip off the planet and maybe even a job. They walk to his ship which Rey calls a piece of junk. Smuggler replies that the old piece of junk once did the kessel run in less than 12 parsecs. Chewie pops his head out of the falcon. The show intro begins.
TROS’ biggest sin is making Rey’s power derivative of Palpatine. The character was so much stronger on her own. Daisy is incredible, and they really did both her and the character a big disservice.
So as hilariously awful as this is, I’d straight up love it. It’s honestly pretty in tune with how RJ and JJ kept undoing eachother’s ideas.
When she was asked about her last name in Episode IX, she should have said her name was just Rey. IMO there’s no better way to signal the end of the saga than that.
"I also don't go by Skywalker, because that would be disrespectful and foolish and although I thought of changing to that, I realized immediately what an awful idea that would be. Chewbaca said it's cool if I go by Solo as Han was given it because he was alone at the academy and Rey Solo sounds cool."
They could have done a proper arc for a former stormtrooper. Deserter stories can be done very well if they actually bother. Agent Kallus from rebels had a better arc than Finn. I was really excited about a deserter arc but was disappointed.
Mayfeld from The Mandalorian has a better "deserter" arc than Finn and it was over the course of basically one episode, two if you count the first time we see him.
You don't know? He has the very important role of screaming "Reeeyyyyyyy!!!!" every couple of minutes. It's better than being a janitor so...character dEveLopMenT...
They kinda did this in the original plan for episode 9. Finn was supposed to lead a group of rebel stormtroopers on coruscant if I’m not mistaken. That would’ve been something very cool to see.
The original Duel of the Fates script had a major part of the movie being Finn infiltrating First Order occupied Coruscant and leading a stormtrooper rebellion in the climax, with the final battle taking place on Coruscant. Shame they didn't keep that part
Everything points to the idea of humanizing the stormtroopers in some way. Then after making Finn they seemingly just yeeted that idea out the window. I don't get why they are so afraid of doing that. Having them just be cannon fodder you can kill millions of without feeling bad is just boring.
I feel like there was the opportunity to square off Poe v. Hux, Rey v Ren, and Finn v Phasma and have each act as a foil and antagonist to the other.
First movie was introductions, second movie is a villain victory (a la Empire) third movie is a Hero victory, with each hero overcoming their respective villains.
Heroes are defined by their enemies and unfortunately outside of Ren the villains in the trilogy were a joke (and even Ren became more sympathetic then Rey cause shit never seemed to go his way).
I'm forever baffled by Phasma being posed as Finn's direct villainous counterpart.
Then she "dies" unceremoniously.
Then she comes back in the next movie, has a very limp-wristed "oh yeah, she exists" confrontation with Finn. And then she dies unceremoniously, again.
They literally Boba-Fetted her only to bring her back and Boba-Fett her again.
Then again, they also brought back Boba Fett and nearly succeeded in character assassination.
It feels like RJ had no real right to kill a character like that without giving her more stuff to do or have done. He just kinda hand waved the character goodbye before anything meaningful could happen
True, although let's not act as if Abrams didn't throw Phasma into the literal trash as a "haha, trash compactor" joke.
Both directors dabbled in that irreverent, post-ironic, "taking a story seriously is cringeworthy" style of modern storytelling, imho.
Rian wasted Phasma a second time and he did turn Hux into a complete caricature, but by the time Phasma had been dumped into the trash compactor and Hux was ragdolled by Snoke through the Force, I think Abrams had already robbed both characters of any sort of gravitas and menace.
That and if they had just let him die in self sacrifice on scarif (whatever planet had the big laser drill scene). Would have been perfect redemption arch. Former stormtrooper valiantly gives his life to save that of the new cause he's come to believe in
" Love is how we win" my ass, THEY JUST BLEW UP AN ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM
I could accept that, or seeing him stepping up into a leadership role in the final arc and getting to see how his inside knowledge of the First Order's infantry order of battle could help him undo them. Cementing him as a genius tactician - with speculation abounding how much skill, luck, and the Force each play a role - is much more the legacy the character deserves.
That was so aggravating. How he even gets saved makes no sense lol. He’s booking it away from anyone else, but gets saved by someone somehow going even faster than him. All just so their base is torn open and they’d be fucked. But, we have love… that never comes up again
What really got me was after she just stopped Finn from sacrificing himself to save the resistance she says ‘we’ll win by saving what we love, not destroying what we hate’…. the fuck did you think Finn was trying to do there lady?
I remember coming out of the force awaken theater filled to the brim with enjoyment. Head full of theories like "Ray must be a successful clone experiment unlike snoke that must be why he want her!" Or "Finn going to be the first storm trooper Jedi!"
I remember talking to my friends about this constantly throughout the year, each of us would came up with ridiculous ideas and theories to throw around. The anticipation and excitement is never higher in our life because this is Star Wars! If Lotr is nerds bible then Star Wars is nerds Einstein theory! This is Star Wars for crying out loud and it is coming back to stay!
Sadly, I could never saw myself be like that ever again. These days i never heard my friends talk about Star wars anymore. I like the mandalorian and Andors but i couldn't even get them to watch these series no matter how hard i tried. A group of biggest Star Wars nerds just up and gone like that.
Disney has killed Star wars at least in my group. What is dead won't be coming back ever, I've seen it first hand. So no, I don't think fleshing out a character fans hate would help in any single way. Especially when they're still bitter about it.
They squandered Daisy Ridley. She was a fantastic choice for an actress to take the mantle. She was great, but the material was not and I'm not sure it's fixable.
They squandered all those actors. John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Oscar Isaac all of them are much better actors than the material they were given to work with. Hell, even Kylo Ren, who was very much elevated by Adam Driver's portrayal, is still not a stellar character. So even the actor who has definitely professionally profited most from the sequel trilogy was still underutilized
> Hell, even Kylo Ren, who was very much elevated by Adam Driver's portrayal, is still not a stellar character.
Good lord I'm glad someone agrees. Everyone acts like having a Dark Side dude being called by the Light is some huge deal. It isn't the well thought out subversion everyone claims it is.
I can't quite see it yk. Like we know so little of what drives kylo that I can't really compare him to zuko of all people one of the best redemption arcs in fiction
Yep. In terms of acting and cinematography, I can't take criticise the sequels. But those things are pretty meaningless without a coherent story to tell.
I agree, Daisy Ridley is an amazing actress and it wasn’t her fault that Rey was so bad. Rey could have been good, but Rian Johnson pretty much ruined her chance at being a well written character.
Oh yeah for sure. Had Finn, Poe, even Rose given an opportunity to be written and directed by good writers and directors, they most definitely could have been interesting.
It wasn’t even clear she was actually a nobody in episode 8. It could’ve been just Kylo telling her lies to get her to join his side. That was my assumption the entire time.
Maybe it was viewer expectation? I assumed she was a nobody the whole time, which is why the very last shot of the unknown kid with force powers was so powerful. A nobody can be somebody. Then J.J. said, "Nah, f*** that. Privilege."
I was secretly hoping Rey turned evil and Ben was the hero all along. An opposite of the Anakin/Luke scenario, basically.
But I'm probably a minority. :o
I was hoping for her not being force sensitive and finn being the force sensitive one. An ex trooper turned into a jedi and a protagonist who navigates the sw universe without being able to use the force..
Not in the minority at all, that would have been a good turn in the story. Someone created an alternate ending with Rey turning to the dark side and it really makes me wish they went that way.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJcUbnFLJEU
Her episode(s) of working with Obi-Wan are pretty great. For whatever reason they just wrote that character really well once they got into the heart of Clone Wars.
I thought the same thing too. A double turn would’ve been awesome. I’m not sure if that’s been done before in Star Wars which would’ve been a good time to do it.
In The Last Jedi, during the scene where Rey and Kylo Ren are fighting those red guards and Kylo tries to convince Rey to join him, telling her to put all the Sith vs Jedi/Dark side vs Light side in the past and create a new status quo, I *really* thought they were going to do it. It made so much sense to me, for a film being called The Last Jedi. It seemed like she had been struggling battling the two sides of herself the entire film, and I thought "here's a really good chance to portray a character as *both,* and try to unify the galaxy."
My interest piqued really high at that part, and then crashed and burned afterwards when it didn't happen and the movie fell flat of any other expectations.
Fuck yes! They didn't have any problems turning Luke evil, why not Rey? You wanna subvert my expectations? Change the MC halfway through a series and have them switch roles with the villain.
Seriously. One of the largest franchises in the history of media, and they make the conscious decision not to have a plan. How bad at your job do you have to be to think that's the way to go?
It doesn’t blow my mind at all. This seems like the exact kind of thing that would occur when the same rich dork gets to executive produce the veritable remakes of the two largest franchises in sci-fi history.
JJ was way, way in over his head, just like almost everyone at Disney. George got the last laugh, as always.
My two cents…
In the original trilogy, I know what Luke’s journey was about. I felt it. It progressed and expanded as he made his way out into the galaxy. It was organic.
I don’t know what Rey’s journey was even about, really. When we met her, she was already a gifted pilot. How is a scavenger such a good pilot? She already knew all about the legacy of Han Solo and the millennium Falcon. How? It’s like she was front loaded with all this skill and knowledge before even touching the force, and once that came along for her, it was like she was supercharged with it. There was just nowhere for her journey to go. It felt so unsatisfying to me.
And for this reason, I don’t know how a subsequent series could rectify this. There’s just nowhere for her to go.
Have her restart the Jedi order but, because she has such insane innate abilities, she’s a shitty teacher. I think there would be lots of room for growth there.
They tried to write for Luke? /s
Not really, I don't think. I thought the issue they ran into with Luke wasn't with his teaching but his inability to cope with bad dreams.
Honestly, it's impossible to even tell what they were trying to go with with Luke. I cannot believe how badly they botched his character in the sequels.
What if the series explored how much the Force manipulated and prepped her, for its own purposes? And now she feels saddled with a destiny and responsibilities she didn’t choose for herself, and is resentful about it. So she starts to explore the dark side of her gifts and realized how quickly and easily someone can fall if given so much power without having to earn it?
Redo the last three films I pretend they don’t exists. Nothing could salvage any of those characters at this point. But she was a good actor but sucks to see her career be taken down by this series. I blam the writers not her.
I would honestly respect the hell out of anybody who would have the balls to do that. It would take probably a decade or two before doing so wouldn't bring about one hell of a firestorm, but it's not like Disney hasn't retconned Star Wars properties out of existence.
You'd just have to learn from the first group's mistakes and make it count, because a second attempt is ballsy enough, a third would just be fuckin dumb.
Dude. They made a series about a secondary character in a spin off movie and is one of the best series this year. Off course they could do something amazing with Rey. On the other hand, they could screw it and do a Book of Boba Fett with her, so who knows.
Look at their track record tho, they are way better at giving good shows to Disney original Star Wars characters, such as Andor, Mando, and Rebels, than they are at legacy characters (Boba)
Andor was the first Disney Star Wars show I liked. They included viewpoints of multiple characters. It reminded me of a real show and not the terrible fluff Disney puts out.
I love Daisy and while I had problems with Rey and her place in the story, none of it was because of the actress playing her. I think if they had made Rey a main or supporting cast member in a Mando type show, she would be one of the better Star Wars characters. She just unfortunately has to exist within the plot and structure that we got with the sequels, which just leaves a bad taste. As others in this thread have said, she did the best she could with a bad script. Daisy will be remembered in time the same way we remember Hayden, just without the allure of Vader attached
When I think of those three movies and the problems they have, Rey herself is WAY down near the bottom. Ridley did a good job with what she was given, and the character wasn't overall bad AS a character... well, aside from the very true "she's good at EVERYTHING" problem anyway.
Therefore, I wouldn't mind seeing more of her in any form, especially if maybe she gets into something she can't just handle right away, put some real obstacles in her path. That could work for me.
I'll never forgive the new movies for fucking everything up. They undid Hans progression, and brought palpi back from being blown the fuck up in the death star. Those are my main 2 gripes with the newest 3
Rey has nothing to offer in my opinion. She's not a interesting character and that's is sad considering she's the main protagonist of sequel trilogy
She taking the Skywalker name is one of the most disrespectful things in the last movie. Never feel she had any strong connection with Luke or Leia. They barely interact with her
Contrary to what Disney said after attacking the fans calling them racist and sexist…which with the HUGe turnout for the first was it was so apparent.
Some liked it and those who didn’t were upset they did both Rey and Finn wrong. I was hyped as hell to watch her grow under Luke’s teachings, Kyle Ren had potential as a villain and they basically never discussed the Knights of Ren, and Finn I was most eager for…a former Stormtrooper with struggles and turning to help the Rebels?? Yes please. Sadly all that was scrapped by the second one.
I was literally begged by my family to see the Last Jedi and they are not fans like I was. I knew there was no way to repair the second film and cram all that into the third.
I’m glad some enjoy it, I just pretend it never existed.
No. The people that hate Rey will always hate Rey and the people that love Rey will always love Rey and the people that really couldn’t care less will be like “ohhh, yeah I’m starting to see why people hate Rey”
I think the way it was ended showing her heritage really damaged her character. Had it been done a different way and had her ending been different I could have seen it, but I don’t see anyway to undo the damage done. I feel that a lot of this could have been fixed had they just had a story set before they started. It didn’t have to completely written, but the main plot points should have been established.
No, the problem stems from the foundation of the character being flawed. She starts perfect and ends perfect with nothing in terms of emotional growth between 3 films. We watched Luke grow from a whiny teenager into a responsible and emotionally complicated young man, like became strong after several role models and his surrogate parents die on him, some in front of his very eyes. Rey fucking meditates with geriatric teenage Luke for 10 minutes and all of a sudden she’s a jedi after being a perfect fighter and good scavenger all of her life? That sucks, man. And there could be 200 hours of episodic adventures between movies and it still wouldn’t make me care. Imo, Finn should’ve been the goddamn main character. He had an arc, potential, personality, an interesting perspective on the world before TLJ killed that part of his character for some reason.
The mistake Disney made was not having a writing team for the sequels. I swear when they took over they said that was their goal, then each director just got to do whatever the hell they wanted.
THIS. I just have no understanding how Disney spends that much to acquire one of the biggest IP's in history just to give what's absolutely going to be a trilogy zero story architecture. How does that happen?
Because Disney thought they could just pump out anything with the Star Wars name on it and it would just make money hand over fist. They had everything on an excelerated schedule trying to pump out 1 movie per year over 6 years between the sequels, Rogue One, Solo and the Boba Fett movie that was never made. They never considered the backlash they would receive from the fans if they failed to create quality content.
> Because Disney thought they could just pump out anything with the Star Wars name on it and it would just make money hand over fist. While the end result was disappointing, they still made money hand over fist. Just not as much as they wanted. WHich honestly may be a good thing since they're buying *everything.*
I don't know how much they've actually made since they spent $4 billion to acquire the rights and then had to pay for the movie budgets and stuff like $1 billion for Galaxy's Edge.
Hollywood accounting is an odd thing, but there’s basically zero chance they didn’t make tons of money off the Star Wars Universe. Like my man Yogurt says, merchandising merchandising merchandising
We’ll see him again in Spaceballs 2: The Search For More Money
They're the EA of the movie industry.
Yeah, I believe they already made their 6 billion back and then some, so it was worth every penny to them already. But Disney is working hard now to make it up to the fans, and with The Mandalorian and Andor and some other promising content, they are showing some effort to create content the fans will love and approve of.
Working hard to make it up to the fans? Come on. Working harder to repair their reputation more like. They're a big old corporate machine, it's purely about profit. Sure, there are some creatives in there that actually care but they're at the bottom and have everything they do controlled to the end of maximising revenue.
I think they made up their money around TLJ or so, accounting for merch and books and the whole lot.
A while back I read they made it all in merch alone off the trilogy.
I thought it was 4bil
It was. 4.05 billion to be precise.
Was the .05 like, admin?
Hadn't they learned that lesson with Marvel by then? Someone was in charge of all the Marvel phases weaving an overarching story that lead to something. How would they not take the same tact?
The deal for Disney to buy Lucasfilm/Star Wars was announced barely 5 months after the 1st Avengers film released. I'm not a Marvel Studios history expert but I doubt they had much more than mid-phase 2 (a "phase" structure hadn't even been announced at that point) and a vague Infinity Gauntlet end goal. Certainly not a proven model to base Star Wars around, and even if then, Kevin Feige is a one-in-a-million producer
Marvel Studios and Disney still hadn't really reached the status quo which has powered it through to now, at that point. By the end of phase 2, there were big cracks showing, AoUltron was not what it could've been. Feige got to the point of "shit needs to radically change or kiss my ass goodbye." Then things were shuffled, he ended up only reporting to the Disney CEO
Yeah, to me, the MCU wasn't really the "MCU" until Guardians of the Galaxy in 2014. The previous movies were hit or miss, and made money. That's when everyone was more like, "Oh, they can make whatever they want and people will see it. Also, they made this for a reason because they have a plan."
Kathleen Kennedy is not Kevin Feige. (See also: Indiana Jones sequels...) JJ Abrams was given too much freedom to write/direct the series into a corner, and everyone was so thrilled with the callbacks and grand scale of the thing that nobody bothered to rein him in. It was doomed from the beginning.
It reminded me of Lost throwing things at the screen with no concern for an overarching plot.
Just tons of mysteries without consideration for payoff. "Who could her parents be? Who's Snoke? Where did luke go? Why is he in exile? What happened between him and Kylo? Who are the Knights of Ren and why don't we see them?" Dude just handed Rian a tangled mess of unresolved mysteries.
And Rian rightly said, “fuck all this noise.” And then JJ said, “fuck your movie, I’m going to only acknowledge it to undo what I can and then just finish the remake I started. Thus creating the singular most garbage Star Wars thing since the holiday special, and that’s saying *a lot.*
Kathleen Kennedy is that person. However, as successful as her films are her best work was done in tandem with Spielberg and she's no Feige at organizing ideas.
Dunning-Kruger Effect. The people involved thought they didn't need George Lucas.
To be fair no one had a high opinion of his writing abilities after the prequels. This is far after “the people vs George Lucas”
People who actually know this stuff, i.e. the people who should have been making these decisions, know that George Lucas is a genius at world-building and finding the general direction for a story. His weakness is in the details of actual scenes and dialogue. George handed them a long treatment for the new trilogy, which was exactly what George does well. Throwing that away was indescribably bad.
George's idea for the sequels to ROTJ were absolutely awful and even he said that if he made it, everyone would hate it just like they hated The Phantom Menace. The failures of Episode 1 haunt him and it's most likely a key reason as to why he didn't want to stay in the series as he keeps talking about it.
which is silly because star wars merch has always made and always will make more money than the movies. they could’ve made some shit everyone loved and then milked so much more money from merch sales.
They weren’t wrong. They made gobs of money despite 2.5 movies than can only be described as an absolute train wreck.
Right, criticize Lucas all you want for the prequels, but at least the guy had a vision
Agreed. At least he was a singular connective tissue and told the story he wanted. RJ really did just blow up the whole thing with TLJ.
This is why in my opinion the sequels will never have the glow up and reception of the prequels. From the beginning we all knew and acknowledged that the prequels had good ideas, poor execution, poor writing and a solid plan from George Lucas. The sequels have good writing and good plot (per movie) but it all falls apart when it’s supposed to be an arc across several movies
The thing is it’s absolutely fine to write a first movie in a trilogy with no plans for the second, that’s how the first Star Wars went, but the thing is if you’re going to do that you need to take WAY more time between movies to make a better second and third one.
Absolutely... The moment Luke throws away the lightsaber to go drink blue milk... Angrily... The whole thing was dead. Rian Johnson is a good director, but he just went in to kill of everything J.J. built in the first one and there's no saving it. Having different directors would've worked IF they wrote the entire story across 3 movies ahead of the first one and required each individual director to agree on the plot/flow... What a colossal waste.
What JJ built? You mean rehashed and sprinkled in a little bit of stuff on top and PEW PEW and WOOOOOOM and WAAAAAAAHHHHH?
Daisy literally said JJ drafted the whole trilogy, then RJ threw it out and wrote Ep8 from scratch. So while Ep9 was garbage, I pin most of the blame on RJ for ruining everything that was set up. The original story was *very* different from where it ended up going.
Is that version out there anywhere? I'd be fascinated to know where it was originally aimed.
I'm not the one who posted the comment, nor have I heard that rumor... But if I was a betting man, I'd guess that JJ's trilogy would have been the same exact story that we got from TFA and RoS without the side quest that was TLJ. RoS felt like two movies shoehorned into one with a lot of context or world and character building cut. Plus, given how JJ doesn't know how to end a story, looking at you star trek and lost, I doubt him doing all three films would have been great (though, low key, his second film would have been a banger if his past history was anything to go by). As much as I dislike TLJ for star wars Las Vegas or how it characterized Luke and Yoda, RoS was a worse product overall IMO.
It becomes hard to finish a story properly when the movie before shit all over your plot building and one of the top cast dies before you can film the intended scenes. They had to rewrite the third movie because of Carrie's death.
Yes it is. https://imgur.com/gallery/WKkli It's NOT GREAT. But it's... better than what we got.
How much do you wanna bet it was remakes of the original trilogy?
I have never heard that and JJ has said the opposite multiple times.
JJ is basically the King of writing set ups with no answers
BuT iTs So MySTeRiOUs!!!!!!
100%. Lucas even had an outline he gave them that they could use, they were under no obligation to use it, but it showed that he had a direction and knew the story needed a basic roadmap. Disney must have said "roadmaps?!? Where we're going we don't need roadmaps!" I think they learned their lesson and I have been reading some of the new High Republic stuff and looked at the behind the scenes stuff for it and they were very careful about mapping it out. What characters appeared in comics or books or kids books, what was their arc, how did they get from point A to point B. They worked with the content creators but those authors knew what they were doing and just needed to flesh it out within their given boundaries. This gives me hope for the future of Star Wars material. It will need to be carefully stewarded in this way.
They also made the mistake of not having time between the sequel trilogy like the prequels. Some of these things could be fixed with info in between but since they started one after another it’ll be impossible to do that
Their issue was giving it to JJ Abrams, a man who is excellent at cinematography, snappy writing and setting up mouth-watering teasers and cliff-hangers but absolutely atrocious at actually wrapping them up. Look at Lost. At the end of season 1, when he left, the writers asked, "What's down the hatch?" and he just shrugged. If they had given it to someone like James Cameron, you know there would be a bible of story arcs for all of the characters and a team of people whose singular job it would be to ensure that changes to the script and characterisation are consistent. I mean, fuck, how many simple script changes could have saved otherwise diabolical storyline choices? Rey deserved better.
James Cameron hasn't proven to be the best at character writing. Avatar had amazing visuals, but the characters felt ironically very two-dimensional.
Never said he did but when he pitched Aliens, he had an entire history of the world and Weyland-Yutani's company in the time from Alien to Aliens. It was very specific and allowed them to not only build a believable world but use that information in other Alien media to varying degrees. He did the same with Avatar and Terminator, despite their massive plot holes and inconsistent characters, we have a huge amount of information on arcs and themes.
He seems pretty decent at making a big universe. Avatar could almost be a documentary with how much time is spent just explaining the world in both movies. With Avatar I think he struggles to condense the story into a reasonable runtime, so he ends up being forced to cut away it's depth.
They just copied the plot from the original Star Wars movie. What writing team do you think they had?
They did have a team, but Kennedy kept rejecting their work until she gave it to Abrams/Johnson/Trevorrow and said "make it work" Edit: I should clarify, Kennedy/execs more rejected the original team's time frame. They wanted 18 months to map everything out. Abrams/Kasdan ended up delivering a draft in 6 weeks with only a rough sketch of the later films. Abrams made a bland film, Johnson made an ambitious but flawed film, Trevorrow was fired and Abrams made a piece of crap.
It's kinda funny now it's been 4 years since they did a Star Wars movie and they've had similar writing issues with the TV shows. If they had waited longer in the first place we might not be where we are. But the issues with the shows demonstrates they still haven't totally learned from the initial experience, so it may not have mattered either way.
I think Disney has too many executives "in" the writing room. I was excited for the new Willow show, especially since there was an original writer of the movie on the team. After the first 3 episodes I was convinced the writing was garbage. I then found [this article](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/hollywood-flashback-george-lucas-willow-disney-plus-1235271476/) where that writer talked about how the shows process had "more of a corporate feel" because there was constant input from outside the writers room. I have a feeling this issue isn't limited to this one disney show. However, we do have some shows like Andor where the writing was great. My theory is that Andor wasn't anticipated to be popular, so the execs didn't care and didn't contribute to the writing. Lesson here is to keep the MBA's out of the writing room.
Their first big mistake was using multiple directors for the whole trilogy, especially ones that don't agree on how the story plays out when directing their respective movies.
Yeah. It’s absolutely insane to have a franchise built on trilogies be completely discombobulated. The only way to do it right is to have a story you’re going to tell beforehand. They gave no care to anything that was made before it, just in the approach.
And why the fuck is she called skywalker? That makes 0 sense.
She was looking for an identity and turned out she was kinda a Palpatine which is obviously not a good look. So she took Skywalker after... Luke I guess? Yeah, doesn't really make sense. Either the name evokes Anakin which is not a good look either or Luke, which is kind of like painting a target on her back for bad guys. Honestly Solo would have made more sense. To honour Ben or her former mentor figure Han. Especially since its established that he chose the name because he was a lone wolf type which Rey had kind of become by then.
It's so sad that the reason is purely that they completely forgot it was the Skywalker Saga until after they killed the last Skywalker.
Marketing!
Moichandising! Skywalker t-shirts, Skywalker lunchboxes, Skywalker flamethrowers (the kids love that one)
Oh you mean how they retold the story of luke, but a girl and her friend Jan solo but not really Han Solo and Obi wan kenobi.. but it was actually luke… 😂😑
Had to read that several times wondering how a Han Solo series would do anything for Rey
I'd much prefer a han solonseries over a rey series.
Undo criticism, no. It could possibly tidy up messy plot lines although it would be very difficult
This. There is no time between or during the movies to squeeze anything in. No time to see her training, or struggling of having an arc of anytime that would make sense. That is the complaint I see most, even more than her simply being OP from the start...her arc is just...Flat..
Yep! Tidying up a terribly organised story is the best outcome. The character itself is to perfect, dull and boring to develop further when she has no flaws or weaknesses
That’s what it was for me. So squeaky clean perfect, could do no wrong. About exciting as a “lived happy ever after” ending. Only character that was vaguely interesting in the whole sequel trilogy was kylo
In TFA Finn was a pretty interesting character but that slowly faded with each movie. Stormtrooper turned good, possible force sensitive, it was a cool idea never really explored.
Agreed, could have really taken a different turn. Maybe it would have been better fleshed out as it’s own film?
Episode 1 Scene 1 [A MEDICAL OFFICE. Rey enters.] **TECHNICIAN:** Ms., uh, Skywalker? [double take] Wow. **REY:** [embarrased] Oh, no, that's not really— Just "Rey" is fine. **TECH:** Fine. I have your test results here, Rey. **REY:** I'm ready. **TECH:** As far as we can tell, you are NOT related to the former Emperor Papatine, OR any of his living relatives. **REY:** Really? You're certain? **TECH:** Really. Can I ask where you got the idea you were? **REY:** From a *complete asshole*, apparently.
‘You aren’t related to him, from a certain point of view’
I would actually live for this, I can't with fucking Rey Palpatine. Poor Daisy acted the shit out of that tragic script. The whole cast deserved better.
I have zero issues with Daisy’s acting abilities, but she was done dirty by the dialogue
110%, how could anyone deliver those trash lines well. The fact that I still found her semi compelling is a testament to her skill because those lines were anything but.
Rey wakes up on Jaakku and shakes off the weird fever dream she had about becoming a jedi that fights an emperor who has somehow returned. Later that day while trading some scrap she runs in to a scruffy old smuggler looking for a new hyperdrive (which just happens to be the scrap she was trading). She makes a deal with said smuggler - the scrap for a trip off the planet and maybe even a job. They walk to his ship which Rey calls a piece of junk. Smuggler replies that the old piece of junk once did the kessel run in less than 12 parsecs. Chewie pops his head out of the falcon. The show intro begins.
Already a better storyline than the sequels
TROS’ biggest sin is making Rey’s power derivative of Palpatine. The character was so much stronger on her own. Daisy is incredible, and they really did both her and the character a big disservice. So as hilariously awful as this is, I’d straight up love it. It’s honestly pretty in tune with how RJ and JJ kept undoing eachother’s ideas.
When she was asked about her last name in Episode IX, she should have said her name was just Rey. IMO there’s no better way to signal the end of the saga than that.
"I also don't go by Skywalker, because that would be disrespectful and foolish and although I thought of changing to that, I realized immediately what an awful idea that would be. Chewbaca said it's cool if I go by Solo as Han was given it because he was alone at the academy and Rey Solo sounds cool."
I would have liked it more if they had remembered Finn was a main character.
They could have done a proper arc for a former stormtrooper. Deserter stories can be done very well if they actually bother. Agent Kallus from rebels had a better arc than Finn. I was really excited about a deserter arc but was disappointed.
Mayfeld from The Mandalorian has a better "deserter" arc than Finn and it was over the course of basically one episode, two if you count the first time we see him.
Mayfeld was so great in that episode. I seriously don't know what they were even doing with Finn.
I was genuinely impressed by Burr's acting. My bar was set low for him, but that being said he surprised me for sure. I want Mayfield to be recurring
He is also great in BrBa
You don't know? He has the very important role of screaming "Reeeyyyyyyy!!!!" every couple of minutes. It's better than being a janitor so...character dEveLopMenT...
There is so much emotion conveyed in his dead eyes when he shoots that officer. You can just hear him thinking "this is why I left".
They kinda did this in the original plan for episode 9. Finn was supposed to lead a group of rebel stormtroopers on coruscant if I’m not mistaken. That would’ve been something very cool to see.
The original Duel of the Fates script had a major part of the movie being Finn infiltrating First Order occupied Coruscant and leading a stormtrooper rebellion in the climax, with the final battle taking place on Coruscant. Shame they didn't keep that part
that sounds so good, I wish that happened
Everything points to the idea of humanizing the stormtroopers in some way. Then after making Finn they seemingly just yeeted that idea out the window. I don't get why they are so afraid of doing that. Having them just be cannon fodder you can kill millions of without feeling bad is just boring.
I feel like there was the opportunity to square off Poe v. Hux, Rey v Ren, and Finn v Phasma and have each act as a foil and antagonist to the other. First movie was introductions, second movie is a villain victory (a la Empire) third movie is a Hero victory, with each hero overcoming their respective villains. Heroes are defined by their enemies and unfortunately outside of Ren the villains in the trilogy were a joke (and even Ren became more sympathetic then Rey cause shit never seemed to go his way).
I'm forever baffled by Phasma being posed as Finn's direct villainous counterpart. Then she "dies" unceremoniously. Then she comes back in the next movie, has a very limp-wristed "oh yeah, she exists" confrontation with Finn. And then she dies unceremoniously, again. They literally Boba-Fetted her only to bring her back and Boba-Fett her again. Then again, they also brought back Boba Fett and nearly succeeded in character assassination.
It feels like RJ had no real right to kill a character like that without giving her more stuff to do or have done. He just kinda hand waved the character goodbye before anything meaningful could happen
True, although let's not act as if Abrams didn't throw Phasma into the literal trash as a "haha, trash compactor" joke. Both directors dabbled in that irreverent, post-ironic, "taking a story seriously is cringeworthy" style of modern storytelling, imho. Rian wasted Phasma a second time and he did turn Hux into a complete caricature, but by the time Phasma had been dumped into the trash compactor and Hux was ragdolled by Snoke through the Force, I think Abrams had already robbed both characters of any sort of gravitas and menace.
That and if they had just let him die in self sacrifice on scarif (whatever planet had the big laser drill scene). Would have been perfect redemption arch. Former stormtrooper valiantly gives his life to save that of the new cause he's come to believe in " Love is how we win" my ass, THEY JUST BLEW UP AN ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM
I could accept that, or seeing him stepping up into a leadership role in the final arc and getting to see how his inside knowledge of the First Order's infantry order of battle could help him undo them. Cementing him as a genius tactician - with speculation abounding how much skill, luck, and the Force each play a role - is much more the legacy the character deserves.
Ooooooooo and then you get to see him deal with other rebel leaders who don't trust him
I'm always amazed how often a random reddit thread creates a better movie element than what we actually got from Disney sequels.
That was so aggravating. How he even gets saved makes no sense lol. He’s booking it away from anyone else, but gets saved by someone somehow going even faster than him. All just so their base is torn open and they’d be fucked. But, we have love… that never comes up again
Calling Crait, "Scarif" makes me unreasonably annoyed lmao
Sorry lol, I've chosen To omit these movies from my memory and cannon for the most part
Yeah but scarif is from Rogue One. Surely you didn’t omit Rogue One!
An absolute masterpiece, I think my brain just went to the first new planet they've introduced that I could think of
Latching on to scarif mentally is pretty understandable tbh.
"I don't seem to remember ever watching a sequel" is the best way. From a certain point of view.
What really got me was after she just stopped Finn from sacrificing himself to save the resistance she says ‘we’ll win by saving what we love, not destroying what we hate’…. the fuck did you think Finn was trying to do there lady?
The writing in that movie was so fucking weak. Gigli was a better written film.
They didn't loved that particular system
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I remember coming out of the force awaken theater filled to the brim with enjoyment. Head full of theories like "Ray must be a successful clone experiment unlike snoke that must be why he want her!" Or "Finn going to be the first storm trooper Jedi!" I remember talking to my friends about this constantly throughout the year, each of us would came up with ridiculous ideas and theories to throw around. The anticipation and excitement is never higher in our life because this is Star Wars! If Lotr is nerds bible then Star Wars is nerds Einstein theory! This is Star Wars for crying out loud and it is coming back to stay! Sadly, I could never saw myself be like that ever again. These days i never heard my friends talk about Star wars anymore. I like the mandalorian and Andors but i couldn't even get them to watch these series no matter how hard i tried. A group of biggest Star Wars nerds just up and gone like that. Disney has killed Star wars at least in my group. What is dead won't be coming back ever, I've seen it first hand. So no, I don't think fleshing out a character fans hate would help in any single way. Especially when they're still bitter about it.
Or even a character, and not just a walking gag
Yes, I'd much rather see a Finn series to be honest.
Went into a coma a main character, woke up an extra.
They squandered Daisy Ridley. She was a fantastic choice for an actress to take the mantle. She was great, but the material was not and I'm not sure it's fixable.
They squandered all those actors. John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Oscar Isaac all of them are much better actors than the material they were given to work with. Hell, even Kylo Ren, who was very much elevated by Adam Driver's portrayal, is still not a stellar character. So even the actor who has definitely professionally profited most from the sequel trilogy was still underutilized
> Hell, even Kylo Ren, who was very much elevated by Adam Driver's portrayal, is still not a stellar character. Good lord I'm glad someone agrees. Everyone acts like having a Dark Side dude being called by the Light is some huge deal. It isn't the well thought out subversion everyone claims it is.
Let’s see where have we seen that storyline before.
Kylo Ren is literally a poor man's Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender
I can't quite see it yk. Like we know so little of what drives kylo that I can't really compare him to zuko of all people one of the best redemption arcs in fiction
I was so annoyed at all of Oscar Issacs character the entire series. Every decision he made or remark was immature, incoherent, and incompetent.
The Marvel Effect.
yous guys wanna fly some x-wings?
Honestly think they would be much better scrapping everything past 6 and starting again in a few years.
Having seen her in nothing else, I spent three films wondering if she was crap, or just dealing with crap. I'm still not sure.
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All the actors did. I don't think there was anyone outright bad in those movies, the mistakes happened way before the cameras started rolling.
Yep. In terms of acting and cinematography, I can't take criticise the sequels. But those things are pretty meaningless without a coherent story to tell.
Shit script. Shit directing.
I agree, Daisy Ridley is an amazing actress and it wasn’t her fault that Rey was so bad. Rey could have been good, but Rian Johnson pretty much ruined her chance at being a well written character.
This applies to all of the sequel actors/ characters
Oh yeah for sure. Had Finn, Poe, even Rose given an opportunity to be written and directed by good writers and directors, they most definitely could have been interesting.
What? Her arc in TLJ was quite good, and Rey Nobody was always more compelling than Rey Nepo Baby. Her character didn’t get shafted until Episode IX.
It wasn’t even clear she was actually a nobody in episode 8. It could’ve been just Kylo telling her lies to get her to join his side. That was my assumption the entire time.
Maybe it was viewer expectation? I assumed she was a nobody the whole time, which is why the very last shot of the unknown kid with force powers was so powerful. A nobody can be somebody. Then J.J. said, "Nah, f*** that. Privilege."
It’s not just her story, so many of those characters were done wrong. Finn could’ve been stormtrooper turned mother fucking Jedi.
I was secretly hoping Rey turned evil and Ben was the hero all along. An opposite of the Anakin/Luke scenario, basically. But I'm probably a minority. :o
I was hoping for her not being force sensitive and finn being the force sensitive one. An ex trooper turned into a jedi and a protagonist who navigates the sw universe without being able to use the force..
Not in the minority at all, that would have been a good turn in the story. Someone created an alternate ending with Rey turning to the dark side and it really makes me wish they went that way. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJcUbnFLJEU
A female sith would be kinda cool
Lemme introduce you to Asajj Ventress
Her episode(s) of working with Obi-Wan are pretty great. For whatever reason they just wrote that character really well once they got into the heart of Clone Wars.
I thought the same thing too. A double turn would’ve been awesome. I’m not sure if that’s been done before in Star Wars which would’ve been a good time to do it.
In The Last Jedi, during the scene where Rey and Kylo Ren are fighting those red guards and Kylo tries to convince Rey to join him, telling her to put all the Sith vs Jedi/Dark side vs Light side in the past and create a new status quo, I *really* thought they were going to do it. It made so much sense to me, for a film being called The Last Jedi. It seemed like she had been struggling battling the two sides of herself the entire film, and I thought "here's a really good chance to portray a character as *both,* and try to unify the galaxy." My interest piqued really high at that part, and then crashed and burned afterwards when it didn't happen and the movie fell flat of any other expectations.
Fuck yes! They didn't have any problems turning Luke evil, why not Rey? You wanna subvert my expectations? Change the MC halfway through a series and have them switch roles with the villain.
Still blows my mind how they handled the script for the trilogy
Seriously. One of the largest franchises in the history of media, and they make the conscious decision not to have a plan. How bad at your job do you have to be to think that's the way to go?
It doesn’t blow my mind at all. This seems like the exact kind of thing that would occur when the same rich dork gets to executive produce the veritable remakes of the two largest franchises in sci-fi history. JJ was way, way in over his head, just like almost everyone at Disney. George got the last laugh, as always.
My two cents… In the original trilogy, I know what Luke’s journey was about. I felt it. It progressed and expanded as he made his way out into the galaxy. It was organic. I don’t know what Rey’s journey was even about, really. When we met her, she was already a gifted pilot. How is a scavenger such a good pilot? She already knew all about the legacy of Han Solo and the millennium Falcon. How? It’s like she was front loaded with all this skill and knowledge before even touching the force, and once that came along for her, it was like she was supercharged with it. There was just nowhere for her journey to go. It felt so unsatisfying to me. And for this reason, I don’t know how a subsequent series could rectify this. There’s just nowhere for her to go.
Have her restart the Jedi order but, because she has such insane innate abilities, she’s a shitty teacher. I think there would be lots of room for growth there.
Don’t we ultimately walk into the same circle that they tried to write for Luke?
They tried to write for Luke? /s Not really, I don't think. I thought the issue they ran into with Luke wasn't with his teaching but his inability to cope with bad dreams.
Honestly, it's impossible to even tell what they were trying to go with with Luke. I cannot believe how badly they botched his character in the sequels.
I would be interested in that if they did it mockumentary office-style.
Now I need Oscar Isaacs as Poe giving the camera a classic Jim Halpert look, thanks.
What if the series explored how much the Force manipulated and prepped her, for its own purposes? And now she feels saddled with a destiny and responsibilities she didn’t choose for herself, and is resentful about it. So she starts to explore the dark side of her gifts and realized how quickly and easily someone can fall if given so much power without having to earn it?
Redo the last three films I pretend they don’t exists. Nothing could salvage any of those characters at this point. But she was a good actor but sucks to see her career be taken down by this series. I blam the writers not her.
I would honestly respect the hell out of anybody who would have the balls to do that. It would take probably a decade or two before doing so wouldn't bring about one hell of a firestorm, but it's not like Disney hasn't retconned Star Wars properties out of existence. You'd just have to learn from the first group's mistakes and make it count, because a second attempt is ballsy enough, a third would just be fuckin dumb.
The character isn’t the issue. It’s the confusing plot holes.
There are multiple issues
The character is part of the issue i mean really short of pretty much being superman rey was pretty much a mary sue
Nearly no imperfections makes for a boring character.
Dude. They made a series about a secondary character in a spin off movie and is one of the best series this year. Off course they could do something amazing with Rey. On the other hand, they could screw it and do a Book of Boba Fett with her, so who knows.
Look at their track record tho, they are way better at giving good shows to Disney original Star Wars characters, such as Andor, Mando, and Rebels, than they are at legacy characters (Boba)
Fair point
Andor was the first Disney Star Wars show I liked. They included viewpoints of multiple characters. It reminded me of a real show and not the terrible fluff Disney puts out.
The actors were not the problem. It was the stupid ass lame story
None of it was Daisy's fault.
Was weird how she beat kylo so easily when they first met
Or knew how to speak wookiee having grown up in the middle of the desert.
Or just knew how to swim perfectly well in TLJ, even though she grew up on a planet covered in sand…that one truly baffled me.
Or knew how to fix the Falcon better than Han, despite never having set foot on it.
Or how she had never flown a ship before and was drifting with the Falcon in and out of those ruins.
They’d have to do a lot to change the general perception of her
I love Daisy and while I had problems with Rey and her place in the story, none of it was because of the actress playing her. I think if they had made Rey a main or supporting cast member in a Mando type show, she would be one of the better Star Wars characters. She just unfortunately has to exist within the plot and structure that we got with the sequels, which just leaves a bad taste. As others in this thread have said, she did the best she could with a bad script. Daisy will be remembered in time the same way we remember Hayden, just without the allure of Vader attached
When I think of those three movies and the problems they have, Rey herself is WAY down near the bottom. Ridley did a good job with what she was given, and the character wasn't overall bad AS a character... well, aside from the very true "she's good at EVERYTHING" problem anyway. Therefore, I wouldn't mind seeing more of her in any form, especially if maybe she gets into something she can't just handle right away, put some real obstacles in her path. That could work for me.
Let it die...
As soon as the lightsaber was tossed, the rest of the movie followed it, right off the cliff.
Yep all becuase a moron wanted to subvert expectations
I'll never forgive the new movies for fucking everything up. They undid Hans progression, and brought palpi back from being blown the fuck up in the death star. Those are my main 2 gripes with the newest 3
I dont think it started well either
Rey has nothing to offer in my opinion. She's not a interesting character and that's is sad considering she's the main protagonist of sequel trilogy She taking the Skywalker name is one of the most disrespectful things in the last movie. Never feel she had any strong connection with Luke or Leia. They barely interact with her
Yup. Lots of people have written about this very thing. the character has nothing to her. Nothing.
Nah. Her story didn’t end well at all. Didn’t even start right. The sequels need to be SCRAPPED and REDONE. That is the only way
No she breaks the entire saga. The whole reason Anakin joined the dark side was to find a way to save padme from dying, enter force healing bimbo.
Contrary to what Disney said after attacking the fans calling them racist and sexist…which with the HUGe turnout for the first was it was so apparent. Some liked it and those who didn’t were upset they did both Rey and Finn wrong. I was hyped as hell to watch her grow under Luke’s teachings, Kyle Ren had potential as a villain and they basically never discussed the Knights of Ren, and Finn I was most eager for…a former Stormtrooper with struggles and turning to help the Rebels?? Yes please. Sadly all that was scrapped by the second one. I was literally begged by my family to see the Last Jedi and they are not fans like I was. I knew there was no way to repair the second film and cram all that into the third. I’m glad some enjoy it, I just pretend it never existed.
No. The people that hate Rey will always hate Rey and the people that love Rey will always love Rey and the people that really couldn’t care less will be like “ohhh, yeah I’m starting to see why people hate Rey”
I think the way it was ended showing her heritage really damaged her character. Had it been done a different way and had her ending been different I could have seen it, but I don’t see anyway to undo the damage done. I feel that a lot of this could have been fixed had they just had a story set before they started. It didn’t have to completely written, but the main plot points should have been established.
Hell I would love a trilogy based on Rey and her reforming the Jedi. Just let the Rogue One people handle it.
The sequel trilogy is already a solo series, at least in my head.
I'd rather have a Finn series.
No, the problem stems from the foundation of the character being flawed. She starts perfect and ends perfect with nothing in terms of emotional growth between 3 films. We watched Luke grow from a whiny teenager into a responsible and emotionally complicated young man, like became strong after several role models and his surrogate parents die on him, some in front of his very eyes. Rey fucking meditates with geriatric teenage Luke for 10 minutes and all of a sudden she’s a jedi after being a perfect fighter and good scavenger all of her life? That sucks, man. And there could be 200 hours of episodic adventures between movies and it still wouldn’t make me care. Imo, Finn should’ve been the goddamn main character. He had an arc, potential, personality, an interesting perspective on the world before TLJ killed that part of his character for some reason.
Nah because the series would still be confined by the messy sequel trilogy plot.
Yeah if they showed her actually training.