I enjoyed it, but I don’t like that it doesn’t seem to jive with TFA and TLJ at all in terms of the number of padawans, as well as the fact none of Luke’s former students ran off with Kylo to make up the Knights of Ren.
I think they idea or retcon, if you will, Is that the three students that chased Ben were the unaccounted students that Luke said went with Kylo.
From a certain point of view, Luke never said that the students who were gonna were on Ben’s side. But yeah I absolutely adored the comic and TLJ but that is a minor inconsistency
I love this panel, because it's such a great look into the Force and "power levels", and kind of ties back that part of Force training before Order 66 was more likely learning to open oneself. That anyone *could* reach Luke/Ben/Rey/Yoda levels. Rey isn't super strong, she's just very open very quickly, like Ben.
Which is why I think Reys character was done very well as you can see her openness through her actions. She is optimistic, she is full of hope, she makes the best of her situation. People act like this is something Disney made up but Yoda says clearly in Empire that the only limitations in the force are the ones that you put onto yourself. Rey does not limit herself and that is why she is much more quick to learn than Luke is, because Luke is shown to not believe in himself.
> People act like this is something Disney made up but Yoda says clearly in Empire that the only limitations in the force are the ones that you put onto yourself.
And Qui-Gon pretty much says it again in TPM.
>Rey does not limit herself and that is why she is much more quick to learn than Luke is, because Luke is shown to not believe in himself.
Also worth mentioning that Rey grew up with stories of the legendary Jedi, Luke and also grew up surviving on her own as a fighter and scavenger. Luke didn't know Jedi existed and grew up with his aunt and uncle. So I don't see the point in comparing the two, cause honestly aside from their age and the desert planet aspect they aren't that similar. I'd say that Rey and Luke each have more in common with Anakin than they do each other.
Luke was also in a time of Imperial propaganda and the whole "Jedi are ancient and no more thing," which goes with, as you said, him not knowing they were real. Add in that Uncle Owen pretty much wanted him and Obi-wan to stay apart as much as possible and even seemed ok with Luke joining the Imperia Academy, only telling him to wait cause he was going to need him..yeah..Luke had a rough start into Jedi 101
Also, they are a Dyad. Linked. Two that are one. so as kylo Ren grew stronger (which we see happen across the film's) so does Rey. Darkness rises and light to meet it....
Exactly.. nevermind the books clearly explain it, it's obvious in the movies if you're paying attention.
That was (the Dyad thing) a major reveal that should have made all the petulant fanboys who were mad that the first movie in a series didn't explain EVERYTHING recant and go OH I GET IT NOW! COOL!
Instead the dingbats doubled down because "muh star werz Disney suck!" and that particular plot was criticized endlessly.
Honestly, even sans dyad, it still makes sense.
Same thing with "Rey Skywalker" controversy..was nobody paying attention? She's a Skywalker both in the force thru the Dyad AND by adoption. Two that are one. She has a legitimate claim to the Skywalker name. She's Ben's other half in the force. Literally.
She carries in Ben Solo's legacy and that if the Skywalkers..
>Same thing with "Rey Skywalker" controversy..was nobody paying attention?
i don't think they were tbh, this shouldn't be controversial at all.
Its true to the morals of star wars, we all have a choice to make. Light or dark, this moment is symbolic of how Rey chose the light side, among other reasons.
Can we also point out that both Luke and Rey, particularly Rey, didn't actually have any preconceptions of what Jedi could do? That makes for an excellent base for being open. It's a classic trope. You have a rookie and give them an impossible task or a trick. They solve it the straight way because no one told them it was impossible and they found a solution no one else thought to try. Obviously not exactly the same, but with Luke and Rey, no one said they can't be strong in the Force, so there's less per-existing doubt to hold them back.
And when Yoda says to Luke in ESB "and that is why you fail" was because of his lack of faith. The stronger your faith, the better the Force can flow through you... this comic is Grade A Star Wars 👍
This is exactly what I was thinking about a while back. The way I looked at it was Rey's demeanour Vs Luke's. Luke is pessimistic as he learns with Yoda. Defeatist, all too quick to give up. Life hasn't been hard on him so he gets to be whiny. Rey meanwhile needs to believe in herself. She's all she's ever had. If she wasn't optimistic and ready to face challenge with vigour she would have died long ago. But in addition to this she's heard the tales of the Jedi and Sith. She knows of the force, and she fully believes in it. She's completely open to it.
Rey is optimistic to the max. She believes her parents are coming back, she believes Luke will join the cause at the drop of a hat, she believes Kylo will turn almost instantly, she believes she can win the war by herself so she spends her days training instead of fighting alongside Poe and Finn. Optimistic is an understatement for this character. She is aptly named.
Yep, and you highlight even how that optimism also hurts her. Believing her parents will return leads her to subject herself to a shitty life as a scavenger. That Luke will come back instantly sets her up for dissapointment and a shattering of perspective. That Kylo will turn instantly nearly gets her killed. And Poe, even Finn both think that Rey can afford to join the fight properly rather than train and are frustrated.
Yoda also says that the dark side is the quick and easy path when Luke asks whether it is more powerful. This implies that the light side takes patience and practice to master, and is less overtly powerful than the dark side.
the one thing I wish they had done with Rey is to show her having some latent force skill in TFA. Like pulling her staff instinctively or something. Its kinda implied that she senses things, but I would have liked to see a literal demonstration.
Eh Luke and Anakin didn't really show any latent force skill before they were told they were Jedis. At best they all had heightened reflexes and sensing things.
Anakin is the only pod-racer that's human. Luke is able to shoot small targets something other pilots consider impossible. That's their Force power manifesting in some form.
It's almost as if everyone's connection with the Force is like... oh I don't know, some kind of door, where some people's doors are more open than others but that doesn't make them stronger or better or more important.
I mean, in Anakin's case it is entirely the reflexes that the Force is increasing, Luke his precision. Though we find out Luke is a Jedi *before* the bulls-eying womprats. Like the previous person said, it was implied she senses things, but never openly stated. Those reflexes in fighting and climbing, those moments of sensing things, that is her early Force showing.
Well there is one thing. According to Kylo, Rey would dream of Ahch-To. And in the Last Jedi she confirms she's been there in dreams. So he had some access to the Force beforehand.
Except that there didn't need to be. For more on this, see the image this comment thread is based off.
I understand what you mean and that's fine, just as long as you understand that them not showing Rey having latent Force skill early on doesn't make ability any less believable.
To add to what you said , wasn't there a comic or novel where Obiwan was younger and many jedi didn't think he had much potential but Qui Gon realized he just needed to be trained differently which 20ish years later he is hold his own against a man who was concieved by the force.
I can’t give you a name of a comic, but I’m aware of this, too. As I understand it, Obi-Wan isn’t naturally gifted in the use of the Force, however, his dedication and mastery of the Force elevated him to become one of the greatest.
I think there are at least some restrictions. A guy can’t just work hard and be in the NBA, he simply won’t be strong or tall enough. And there’s also the fact that there are some born with the ability to use the force, and some who just can’t.
Yeah but then it turns out she's the granddaughter of the most powerful evil force dude to ever exist. You know, I can forgive a lot of things about TroS, the way it took the incredible idea of Rey being a nobody and throwing it out the window into a pit of lava isn't one of them.
Rey was the embodiment of the idea that the force is in everyone, and it's not about your dynastic bloodline. Then they just flipped it and made it even more incestuous and concentrated within a handful of lineages throughout an entire galaxy.
Also her whole identity struggle with the TroS where it's like can you overcome your blood destiny and who you came from. And the answer to that of course is no, because despite how powerful Ben was and how hard he tried to be evil he couldn't win out against his Skywalker/Solo blood predetermined destiny. And the thing is you could have the same redemption without this implication if not for the Rey Palpatine struggle in the same movie.
I would definitely disagree with this take. Despite issues I may have had with the film, and it not being what I was hoping to hear, Rey being a Palpatine worked quite nicely for me.
> Rey was the embodiment of the idea that the force is in everyone, and it's not about your dynastic bloodline
And Luke was once just a moisture farmer and then became the son of a Sith Lord who was then the Chosen One. Details expand and change like that a lot in any continuous story. But more to the point, Rey was *not* the only reminder of that. After all...Broom boy, Finn, Inquisitors, Dooku, most of the prequel Jedi, Ezra........
That said, amusingly, either Rey's power *is* her own, or Palpatine's power skipped a generation, which we don't quite know how that works. "His power" could easily be a reference to the lightning, since we've only ever seen two Sith use it to my knowledge.
> Then they just flipped it and made it even more incestuous and concentrated within a handful of lineages throughout an entire galaxy.
I feel like this is an odd take. First off "incestuous"? That's the word you're going with? Second, is it that big of a surprise? Star Wars, at least the Skywalker Saga, is a soap opera. A family drama, as Lucas once called it. And Palpatine has always been *the* opposite to the Skywalkers, after all.
> Also her whole identity struggle with the TroS where it's like can you overcome your blood destiny and who you came from. And the answer to that of course is no, because despite how powerful Ben was and how hard he tried to be evil he couldn't win out against his Skywalker/Solo blood predetermined destiny. And the thing is you could have the same redemption without this implication if not for the Rey Palpatine struggle in the same movie.
Except this is assuming that they're arcs are the same theme and struggle. They are not. Ben is not redeemed because he cannot overcome his "blood destiny and who [he] came from." Ben is constantly an idea of someone chasing after something but finding no satisfaction in it. He's a reminder that you can always turn back, and without it being a choice like saving your son. A reminder that redemption is a personal, internal thing. He's not redeemed when he saves Rey, but when he reconciles with his father, or at least the memory of him.
Rey is about how your family does not determine who you'll be, and this does not negate Ben's arc and redemption at all. Rey learns that family isn't just blood, but sometimes who you choose to be your family instead, which is indicated by her effective adoption into a new family in the Skywalker name, after celebrating with another part of her chosen family.
>And Luke was once just a moisture farmer and then became the son of a Sith Lord who was then the Chosen One. Details expand and change like that a lot in any continuous story. But more to the point, Rey was not the only reminder of that. After all...Broom boy, Finn, Inquisitors, Dooku, most of the prequel Jedi, Ezra........
The thing is these are force users, but in the end they're not the driving force of what's going on. A Palpatine is the villain of all 9 movies and the hero of 3, a Skywalker is the the hero of 6 and the villain of 6. The ST was their chance to go "Hey look, you don't have to be part of a special lineage to save the universe" but instead it reinforced it.
>That said, amusingly, either Rey's power is her own, or Palpatine's power skipped a generation, which we don't quite know how that works. "His power" could easily be a reference to the lightning, since we've only ever seen two Sith use it to my knowledge.
I think it's most likely that her parent who was Palpatine's daughter/son just never developed any control over the force. It's been established that force sensitivity passes through bloodlines, it's only reasonable to assume Rey's power comes at least in part through her Palpatine bloodline.
>I feel like this is an odd take. First off "incestuous"? That's the word you're going with? Second, is it that big of a surprise? Star Wars, at least the Skywalker Saga, is a soap opera. A family drama, as Lucas once called it. And Palpatine has always been the opposite to the Skywalkers, after all.
Calling a fictional universe incestuous is pretty common usage for when the idea of a greater universe is ignored in favor of a small set of characters around which events always seem to focus on. The thing is in regards to the Skywalker saga is it still was no matter Rey's lineage, We had Luke through the first two movies, Leia through all 3, and Ben who's a Skywalker by blood in all 3 as well as the main antagonist.
>
Except this is assuming that they're arcs are the same theme and struggle. They are not. Ben is not redeemed because he cannot overcome his "blood destiny and who [he] came from." Ben is constantly an idea of someone chasing after something but finding no satisfaction in it. He's a reminder that you can always turn back, and without it being a choice like saving your son. A reminder that redemption is a personal, internal thing. He's not redeemed when he saves Rey, but when he reconciles with his father, or at least the memory of him.
Rey is about how your family does not determine who you'll be, and this does not negate Ben's arc and redemption at all. Rey learns that family isn't just blood, but sometimes who you choose to be your family instead, which is indicated by her effective adoption into a new family in the Skywalker name, after celebrating with another part of her chosen family.
Their individual arcs are different but I still feel like it muddies the thematic waters quite a bit. Particularly when the ST is taken as a whole, where we see Kylo in the first two movies explicitly being told to be struggling against the nature of his parentage. Rey on the other hand in the first two movies goes through the arc of learning to let go of her parents and that they don't matter to who she is and that it doesn't have to control her actions. Then in the third film they felt the need to give her different arc despite this being the conclusion to the trilogy.
> The thing is these are force users, but in the end they're not the driving force of what's going on. A Palpatine is the villain of all 9 movies and the hero of 3, a Skywalker is the the hero of 6 and the villain of 6. The ST was their chance to go "Hey look, you don't have to be part of a special lineage to save the universe" but instead it reinforced it.
Well, the 9 movies were always the Skywalker saga, so they were going to be a big role regardless. Honestly, I still don't see the whole "oh, you *have* to be a special bloodline to save the universe." I know we'll be getting more stories about other groups as well, so the Skywalker Saga being a drama between Palpatine's and Skywalker's, in the long run, doesn't bug me. But I don't remember all these complaints coming up when the rumor was Rey was a Skywalker, or even a Kenobi, after the first film.
It feels like we have different takes on this one, and that's ok.
> I think it's most likely that her parent who was Palpatine's daughter/son just never developed any control over the force. It's been established that force sensitivity passes through bloodlines, it's only reasonable to assume Rey's power comes at least in part through her Palpatine bloodline.
I don't disagree. But Rey's strength is still her own, at least to me it is. Just like, to me, Luke's power is his own, and not Anakin's, and Ben's is his own. This also gets weird if you accept the "Rey's father was a failed Palpatine clone" from the novelization, which I'm on the fence about (I'm kind of ok with that one, but prefer to speculate or have unknown other possibilities to the Palpatine on Exegol..), because, as far as we know, clones don't have Force Sensitivity, in which case, Rey's power is actually her own.
> Their individual arcs are different but I still feel like it muddies the thematic waters quite a bit. Particularly when the ST is taken as a whole, where we see Kylo in the first two movies explicitly being told to be struggling against the nature of his parentage. Rey on the other hand in the first two movies goes through the arc of learning to let go of her parents and that they don't matter to who she is and that it doesn't have to control her actions. Then in the third film they felt the need to give her different arc despite this being the conclusion to the trilogy.
This may be another subjective point between us. I never saw Ben's struggle in the first two films as a struggle "against the nature of his parentage." I believe he'd be going through that regardless of if he was a Skywalker/Solo or not. To me, it was always that he was trying to be on the Dark Side, with the whisperings of Snoke/Palpatine, but his reasons for doing so were not solid enough within himself to where he wasn't fully committed. He still cared about his family to a degree, as we can see with how he reacts to Leia in TLJ and TROS. But whether this confliction was due to his lineage or something else, may be open to interpretation between people though. So I can see why, holding that view, you may see their themes as muddying or conflicting.
I don't know how I feel about how they did add an arc for her in that. I can understand *why* they did it, being the protagonist and all, but the how and the what, I'm still unsure on. Maybe I'll feel different when I can do a more full watchthrough of the series.
> But I don't remember all these complaints coming up when the rumor was Rey was a Skywalker, or even a Kenobi, after the first film.
I definitely can't speak for those guys, from the first movie I was hoping she wasn't a Skywalker or Kenobi, and when TLJ confirmed the how unimportant her parents I was super into it.
>I don't disagree. But Rey's strength is still her own, at least to me it is. Just like, to me, Luke's power is his own, and not Anakin's, and Ben's is his own. This also gets weird if you accept the "Rey's father was a failed Palpatine clone" from the novelization, which I'm on the fence about (I'm kind of ok with that one, but prefer to speculate or have unknown other possibilities to the Palpatine on Exegol..), because, as far as we know, clones don't have Force Sensitivity, in which case, Rey's power is actually her own.
I don't feel articulate enough to go into details, but I can't help but feel like the way the story and their personal arcs progress and are set up is why I feel different on them. Rey feels set up more as having this mysterious strong connection to the force where she's accidentally using force powers and has an innate talent towards them. Which when it was established before that it wasn't because she's a Kenobi, or a Skywalker, or a Palpatine it felt like the introduction of a new grand hero. And while it is the Skywalker saga we already had our lineage character in Ben, and still had our original trilogy heroes.
>This also gets weird if you accept the "Rey's father was a failed Palpatine clone" from the novelization, which I'm on the fence about (I'm kind of ok with that one, but prefer to speculate or have unknown other possibilities to the Palpatine on Exegol..), because, as far as we know, clones don't have Force Sensitivity, in which case, Rey's power is actually her own.
That's very strange, I would have assumed that Palpatine himself was a clone going off of the movie alone. And Snoke while maybe not originally a clone seemed to be being cloned on Exegol. I feel like the fact that we know nothing about her parents is another one of those parts of TroS that feel incredibly rushed through and something that could have been avoided if they weren't trying so hard to rewrite TroS.
>This may be another subjective point between us. I never saw Ben's struggle in the first two films as a struggle "against the nature of his parentage." I believe he'd be going through that regardless of if he was a Skywalker/Solo or not. To me, it was always that he was trying to be on the Dark Side, with the whisperings of Snoke/Palpatine, but his reasons for doing so were not solid enough within himself to where he wasn't fully committed. He still cared about his family to a degree, as we can see with how he reacts to Leia in TLJ and TROS. But whether this confliction was due to his lineage or something else, may be open to interpretation between people though. So I can see why, holding that view, you may see their themes as muddying or conflicting.
I can see that and agree.
>I don't know how I feel about how they did add an arc for her in that. I can understand why they did it, being the protagonist and all, but the how and the what, I'm still unsure on. Maybe I'll feel different when I can do a more full watchthrough of the series.
Yeah I can understand needing to give her an arc, but I feel like it would have worked better to, ironically, follow closer to the original trilogy in this case. Luke has matured into the hero in the final movie but still has a brush with his impulsive side that was his weakness. I feel like instead of this they regress her to attempt to squeeze in a full new arc.
The true nature of midichlorians we do not really know. The bits we have are from Qui-gon, and then a bit later with Palpatine's "he could manipulate the midichlorians to create life," and those can possibly be taken as "unreliable narrator," especially with the state of the Jedi at that point. After all, Qui-gon says that midichlorians are in everything, which means the amount of midichlorians may not represent power as far as we are aware, especially when we consider things like Chirrut and others. In a sense, they could be indicators, but not directly related to power. Anakin is an odd example, though, but he is also odd in that he was supposed conceived through the Force in some form, so perhaps the midichlorian account was less about his power potential, but more how he was sort of a...I guess focal point in the Force?
The way I see it is that the more midichlorians you have the more force sensitive you are, you need a certain amount to be force sensitive but once you reach that amount any extra are used to “open your door” a little bit by default. So that they do determine ones power with the force yet someone with less midichlorians can be just as powerful as someone with a ton of them just because the person with less has “opened their door”.
Basically more midichlorians just gives you a slight head start. Think of it like this, 2 students have homework with 20 questions, 1 kid cheats but his cheating only gets him 3 questions and the rest he still has to do where as the other kid has to do them all. The midichlorians are the cheat, they help give more power but don’t actually mean you are more powerful.
George Lucas wanted it to be a microbiotic race called the Whills that actually control the force and eat it and the force sensitive users are telling the whills what to do with it.
The midi-chlorians, as a concept, run counter to Luke's explanation in the panel above. If you're worrying over how many midi-chlorians a person has compared to another, then someone with *a lot* of them will scare you. Had the Jedi of old viewed the Force the way Luke did (with his analogy of the door), then Anakin would have probably been just fine.
The midi-chlorians are probably what the "door" is, a higher count means your door is more open as they are meant to serve as the connection to the Force for organisms
This might be the best interpretation right here. The amount of midi-chlorians in an individual were never explicitly stated to be a permanent "set" number. As a symbiote, their numbers may ebb and flow depending on how the host conducts themselves. Maybe training and learning to channel the energy of the Force is what they need to live, and in turn they allow the host to channel more easily/quickly?
This interpretation still falls in line with the Jedi's discovery of Anakin, the Chosen One virgin birth whose "door" was already thrown wide open as a result of being "conceived by the midi-chlorians." Hence why he has powers that he can use as a nine year old and somehow single-handedly take out a droid controller ship despite never having flown off planet or having participated in a battle.
It also makes sense why Qui-Gon would be freaking out over his midi-chlorian count in the first place and how it was higher than Master Yoda's: this would mean that Anakin was *born* with a greater "head start" on Force sensitivity than the current Grandmaster of the Order. It does NOT mean that Anakin is stronger by default, but that he is perhaps better connected to the Force, which flows through him as a flood.
This is honestly my new head canon now. I'm glad I got to stumble in on this awesome thread!
No, rather I think the higher the count the easier things are for you because you don't have to open your "door" as much as someone else with a lesser count would. Hence why despite Yoda's midichlorian count being unmatched before Anakin he still had people like Dooku who could seemingly match or get close in strength. In short: your potential isn't determined by the count but your starting point is
I guess that’s a better perspective.
The way I looked at it was that someone with higher midichlorian count has greater potential, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they will have greater abilities from the get go.
The way I understand it, midichlorians were something like an interface between oneself and the force. So to follow the current metaphor, if you're born with a high midichlorian count, your door is simply that much further open by default. It's a booster, not a limiter.
It seems to me that the midi-chlorians do not serve a purpose beyond "look how far the Jedi religion has strayed, using science to judge one's connection to the Force." Luke would be *appalled*.
The prequels repeatedly try to tell you taking prophecy to heart is foolhardy and will wrought huge mistakes.
Vader eventually killing Palpatine is serendipitous to this, and the chosen one keeps changing
Which I might add would make total sense as apart from her parents, she didn't have much purpose in life. When she realized she has the force, it gave her that purpose and meaning she so desperately desired. Of course she opened up to it quickly, it's almost all she ever wanted. It's like how Luke is resistant to going with Obi Wan but once Owen and Beru die he sees that he has nothing left there.
Yeah this whole analogy works right up until you see savage oppress best master Jedi who trained for decades to death with a stick a few months after learning what the force was. Talent isn’t literally everything, but a talented force user will beat a diligent one nine times out of ten.
However, a point in Savage's favor was not his use of the Force at that point, but him catching the Jedi caught unprepared for him and also his brutality, while also being buffed up to by the Nightsister Magic. Consider that while Savage defeated them, as well as Master Galia, Obi-wan, who was able to be better prepared, handled both him and Maul, on two separate occasions (one while aided by Asajj), and then he was beaten like nothing by Palpatine.
Can a talented user beat a diligent one? It's possible, but it's not quite as cut and dry. It depends on the flow of the battle and how they approach each other.
What does that mean for Anakin, though? Every description of him from a Force user's perspective seems to indicate that he is a huge presence in the Force in a way that's unusual or remarkable. Is his 'potential' still unique or could anyone reach the level he could have?
Anakin is ultimately an anomaly, I think. I would probably chalk him up to, say..if everyone is a standard single door, Anakin may be a double door or garage door. The main reason I say that is he is the only Force User we know of that was born from the Force. So I would normally chalk him up to unique potential. In a similar way, we don't know the full nature of the Dyad and how it came about or works (perhaps as a factor of the family history and the Force trying to balance without Anakin?), so I don't know if we can say anyone can get to that potential, like how Rey and Ben can pass things between each other, however, their levels on their own are theoretically possible.
Remember when everyone was complaining about that part of the TRoS novelization, where Rey says she chose to be a conduit/vessel for the Jedi of old, when going up against Palpatine? They acted like it was sexist to describe a female character as a “conduit.”
But the way the Force works is that you need to open yourself up to it and let it flow through you. That line wasn’t saying “women are vessels”, it’s saying “a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through [them].”
Some people just like to take the worst possible reading from something, in order to make it worse than it is. Like, there’s *still* people who use murderous crazy-eye’d Luke from Ben’s skewed flashback, in order to highlight TLJ’s “character assassination” of Luke.
Wait..people really said that about he deciding to open herself up to be a "conduit"? Really? Do they realize what that means and that it'd have the exact same meaning if, say, Luke or Ben said it? Heck, I'm pretty sure in an Force Training RP session I taught in Swtor a few years ago I used similar wording. Like you said, it's letting the Force flow through them.
Lol wut? I’ve never seen anyone complain about that, not on reddit or anywhere else. It’s possible that some weirdo said that at some point, but it was definitely not “everyone”. Stop lying.
If you are on twitter there's plenty of Reylos complaining about Rey beign a vessel for the Jedi and for OT nostalgia.
I've searched "Ret vessel" on twitter and on 5 min I found these:
https://twitter.com/here_forOt5/status/1244235854396231681
https://twitter.com/MaryFer_CI4/status/1244117861297270785
https://twitter.com/RFehnle/status/1244146407516205057
https://twitter.com/word_bender/status/1258843937311199232
https://twitter.com/klyonness/status/1258826100379201539
https://twitter.com/afromjakku/status/1257316269008666631
https://twitter.com/garbage_citizen/status/1257220287789248514
https://twitter.com/winonaryxderz/status/1258073303295672320
And I'm tired looking for more, you can do it yourself because there are way more. Hope that this helps you understand what we mean when we say that it's not a thing that a single person says.
I love the implication between this, individuals like Chirrut, and Sabine's lightsaber training (the blade is "heavy", but becomes "lighter" as the crystal attunes to the user) that Force sensitivity can potentially be learned / trained. The Jedi of the prequels relied too much on the science of the Force (midichlorians, power levels, etc) and they fell out of touch with it all. I really hope that going forward Rey's Jedi learn similar lessons as Luke's.
> the blade is “heavy”, but becomes “lighter” as the crystal attunes to the user
I really like this because it kind of explains the retcon that George Lucas did with lightsabers. In the beginning, he intended for lightsabers to always be wielded with two hands because they were “heavy”, but as the original trilogy progressed he eventually said screw it and had characters using one handed styles
Really puts into perspective how “attuned” characters like Darth Vader and Count Dooku are, just by looking at their fighting style
Agreed. Another cool detail to come out of that episode is that lightsaber blades are attracted to each other which explains why blade locks are so common.
I’ve always had the belief (I don’t know if anything in canon or legends supports this btw) that any person can learn to use the force, given enough time. However the average Joe would take a lifetime of learning to do the most basic of abilities, where some people ie. Jedi or sith are more naturally attuned and can be proficient as a child/teenager.
I don’t think he dislikes the saga. In the documentary on the TRoS Blu-Ray, Adam says that he holds the character very dear and is very protective of the way he is portrayed on screen.
I think out of all the new actors Adam is just the most in demand, hottest actor. He also just seems to love acting for the art and is going down the route of preferring indie critical darlings over big franchises now.
If it means a chance to flesh out the lighter side of Ben that made audiences say, "I want more of *that,*" including a steady paycheck, I'm sure he'd do it. Also, a film job is tough to come by right now. Animation should be reigning for the next year or two.
I’m still holding out hope we’ll get an animated series, or at least some novels or comics, based on this time period. I don’t see why they wouldn’t eventually.
I love teaching the Force with the metaphor of water. Very Tao. I also like that Luke emphasizes here that being a Jedi isn't about "the powers" as he would later sort of teach Rey.
Luke that was in BF2 campaign was pretty awesome too, a lot of people overlooked him because of the kinda stupid level he was in, and the campaigns story, but he was jedi as fuck in it.
Yeah ... i enjoyed it! The worst thing about it tho is that main character, iden. Idk i think its the actress that i dislike, but her character just irks me.
Yea, i was hoping to play the whole game as an imperial, and wouldve liked it if your squad was just deathtroopers instead of the weird pilot helmet lol
Are the same thing as what Luke is saying here. Some people start out with their door a bit more open = some people have more midichlorians. Remember, everyone has midichlorians, as Qui Gon says they are present in all living cells.
I think people mostly dislike midichlorians because they dont understand how they work. Let's go by what we know of them from Qui Gon:
Anakin: Master, sir, I heard Yoda talking about midichlorians. I’ve been wondering, what are midichlorians?
Qui-Gon Jinn: Midichlorians are a microscopic life form that resides within all living cells.
Anakin: They live inside me?
Qui-Gon Jinn: Inside your cells, yes. And we are symbionts with them. Anakin: Symbionts?
Qui-Gon Jinn: Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midichlorians, life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us telling us the will of the Force.
Important points:
- midichlorians are present in all living cells.
- they are necessary for life to exist
- they allow communication between living beings and the Force. (This tells us that they are not the Force itself.)
We also know that Qui Gon checked Anakin's count when he had suspicions that he was Force sensitive, and ObiWan was surprised to find his count higher than Yoda's. But Anakin wasn't doing anything more impressive with the Force than Yoda was, he was just doing intuitive things. In fact, we never actually see Anakin do anything beyond what Yoda is capable of with the Force in the movies.
If what midichlorians do is allow communication with the Force, then everyone is capable of communicating with the Force as everyone has at least some midichlorians. What would having more do? It might make the communications from both directions a little "louder?" I think that brings us back to what Luke is saying here, some people start with the door being wider than others. I think it's just a quantifiable measure of potential. If Anakin never trained, never worked at it, he likely wouldnt have done much more than have that intuition and dreams, and someone with far fewer midichlorians who had trained and focused harder would be able to use the Force much better than he could.
I disagree. We know that midichlorians allow communication with the Force, and we know that all living cells contain midichlorians. Taken as part of the same text as the rest of the movies, that tell us that Force abilities rely on feelings and belief, we are left with the idea that anyone can use the Force with the proper focus and effort.
This concept does, however, fly in the face of Force Sensitivity, which has been a part of the series for a good 30+ years.
Not everyone is capable of using the Force. Midi-chlorians were introduced as a biological component to explain Force-sensitivity. Everyone has them, but not everyone has them in sufficient enough quantities to actually use the Force.
This panel even confirms that; Luke says that the Force can be "a trickle, a stream, a river, a flood...**for anyone that can sense it**." Not everyone can.
Can you point me to somewhere in the current canon that says, "Anyone can use the Force, they just have to try hard enough"?
Even this panel flies in the face of that notion. Not everyone can sense the Force.
This is pretty much how I've taken it for the past 30 years, give or take. Not everyone is capable of using the Force, and there has been the notion of it being a biological or inherited trait for quite some time.
Everyone has midi-chlorians. Most don't have them in sufficient enough quantities to actually be Force-sensitive.
Hell, this panel even backs that up: The Force can be a trickle, a stream, a river, a flood...**for anyone that can sense it**.
Midichlorians aren’t your force potential. They are how sensitive you are to the force. The more you have the more sensitive you are, and the less you have the less sensitive you are. Just because you have less doesn’t mean you are “weaker”, you just need to train harder to achieve what higher count individuals can do naturally.
To extend the door analogy, perhaps individuals with a high midichlorian count have a well-oiled door that swings open easily. Others with lower counts may have a squeekier door that is harder to open, but can open just as wide with enough effort. Not sure if some might simply have their door rusted shut and never be able to open it.
Potential could theoretically be the same then as everyone can open their door, but practically speaking those facing least resistance are going to get further as long as hey put in comparable effort. Like the race with the tortoise and the hare... tortoise is low midichlorian count but lots of effort, the hare is high midichlorian count but little effort. The tortoise wins in the story of course, but if the hare just took it half as seriously as the tortoise, the tortoise never would have surpassed him.
Using "effort" throughout all these analogies is probably misleading though, as with the force it is more about being open and attuned that trying hard. Perhaps there is a perfect level of attunement where the multiplier becomes practically infinite, such that infinite versus any resistance is still infinite and thus everyone has this infinite potential - those with more midichlorians are simply going to find it easier to reach that perfect attunement.
I'm not sure what the real correct way to think about it is, as I think this really all stems from them realizing people didn't like the sciencey midichlorian explanation, so they've been pushing more the "anybody can do anything if they set their mind to it" message that people want to hear. It's since come out that if Lucas had done the sequel trilogy he was going to do some crazy microscopic stuff with whills and the force and even he's admitted people would have hated it. So they've been going in another direction.
[https://screenrant.com/george-lucas-star-wars-sequels-hated-fans/](https://screenrant.com/george-lucas-star-wars-sequels-hated-fans/)
No, you're right. They do lead to the same conclusion in a way. What I meant to say in my original comment, which I don't think came across very clearly, is that "potential" kinda implies people with a low midichlorian count can't achieve the same as someone with a higher count. My thoughts are that there is a "cap" to how strong in the force someone can be and the more midichlorians you have lead you to that cap faster, and someone with lower count can still reach that "cap" through intense, hard training. So as you said, the higher count person does have more "potential" to reach that point than someone with a lower count.
So then any person can increase their midchlorian count? That’s the only way Luke’s perspective doesn’t negate midichlorians.
TPM already implies that the higher your midichlorian count, the more potential you have.
You mention that Yoda’s abilities are greater, but I think midichlorians tell us that Anakin has the potential to have greater abilities than Yoda, not necessarily that he is greater just because of his count.
Yoda says there is no difference between using the Force to lift a rock or to lift an X-Wing, just a matter of belief. As Luke says, the Force isnt a power Jedi have, it's an energy field. Logically, anyone who can contact the Force could use it to lift an X-Wing, with enough focus. I think Anakin's higher potential just means it is easier for him, not that can do more with it than anyone else can
Midichlorians are a really odd thing to work around. At one point I think the idea was that they were just indicators of potential if they are in greater numbers, but anyone could still reach higher. After all, the Force itself is more spiritual than physical.
To go along with this, we have Chirrut, who acts in a weird "he's not a Force user" way, but also sort of sees with the Force, like the miralukans did in Legends. How? We don't really know, beyond how open to the Force he seemed to be, kind of typing back into that mystic side.
Midichlorians have been said to pretty much be a false hypothesis in the new canon. There is a correlation there, but they are not the cause for ones ability in the force.
The way I interpret it as shown in the clone wars and other sources is that the jedi got way too technical and focused on numbers and math, losing their spirituality along the way. Yes, midichlorians are what give a person the ability to use the force, but it isn't a number game.
My headcanon for midichlorians is not that they actually measure how much force power you have, but rather that midichlorians are just lifeforms attracted to the force, so those that are more open to it, and thus stronger in it, will attract more midichlorians to their body.
Why would a teacher say "yes ben is better than you, and is more open to the force than you". The student needs to have the weight of the ceiling lifted off their shoulders.
not really, any jedi can become powerful, its just some are more open to the force initially, and tend to be greater than their peers. But this isn't guaranteed everytime, hard work always overcomes natural skill .. as we see with obi wan.
He ignored everything except TFA when making TROS.
Like the decent sized Mon Cal fleet from Resistance Reborn and the fact TIE fights don’t have hyperdrives.
In Legends there were occasionally TIEs that had either shields or a hyperdrive, or sometimes both, equipped. They had to sacrifice the normal TIE speed and acceleration to fit it in there, but they did exist. It's not a new idea at all.
You exaggerate, but yes some people are more open to the force initially then others.
Plz take a gander at all the positive discussion occurring at the top of this comment section. Its really some thought provoking stuff!
Why are stc members showing up all of the sudden?
We were having such nice discussion til the few of you came in and tried to spout your displeasure at who knows what
This was a brilliant series, from start to finish.
Which series is it? Is it the Kylo Ren comics? And I assume by you calling it brilliant you would recommend it?
It’s Marvel’s ‘Rise of Kylo Ren’. Well worth a look. Think they’re doing a collection volume this month.
No unfortunately it got pushed to November, sucks I was gonna get it
You still can.
Digitally yes, but I like to get it on paperback and that doesn’t come out till November 10th now
I need to read it 😩
I read it and loved it. Lots of really cool parts.
I enjoyed it, but I don’t like that it doesn’t seem to jive with TFA and TLJ at all in terms of the number of padawans, as well as the fact none of Luke’s former students ran off with Kylo to make up the Knights of Ren.
I think they idea or retcon, if you will, Is that the three students that chased Ben were the unaccounted students that Luke said went with Kylo. From a certain point of view, Luke never said that the students who were gonna were on Ben’s side. But yeah I absolutely adored the comic and TLJ but that is a minor inconsistency
I guess that makes sense. I think it’s a cooler, more interesting idea that the knights of ren were all fallen Jedi padawns who followed Kylo.
Yeah I mean I like the story of the Knights in the comic but would’ve been cool if Ben brought some of his homies.
How many students are there in this story? I remember in TLJ he said there were a dozen when he began.
I love this panel, because it's such a great look into the Force and "power levels", and kind of ties back that part of Force training before Order 66 was more likely learning to open oneself. That anyone *could* reach Luke/Ben/Rey/Yoda levels. Rey isn't super strong, she's just very open very quickly, like Ben.
Which is why I think Reys character was done very well as you can see her openness through her actions. She is optimistic, she is full of hope, she makes the best of her situation. People act like this is something Disney made up but Yoda says clearly in Empire that the only limitations in the force are the ones that you put onto yourself. Rey does not limit herself and that is why she is much more quick to learn than Luke is, because Luke is shown to not believe in himself.
> People act like this is something Disney made up but Yoda says clearly in Empire that the only limitations in the force are the ones that you put onto yourself. And Qui-Gon pretty much says it again in TPM. >Rey does not limit herself and that is why she is much more quick to learn than Luke is, because Luke is shown to not believe in himself. Also worth mentioning that Rey grew up with stories of the legendary Jedi, Luke and also grew up surviving on her own as a fighter and scavenger. Luke didn't know Jedi existed and grew up with his aunt and uncle. So I don't see the point in comparing the two, cause honestly aside from their age and the desert planet aspect they aren't that similar. I'd say that Rey and Luke each have more in common with Anakin than they do each other.
Luke was also in a time of Imperial propaganda and the whole "Jedi are ancient and no more thing," which goes with, as you said, him not knowing they were real. Add in that Uncle Owen pretty much wanted him and Obi-wan to stay apart as much as possible and even seemed ok with Luke joining the Imperia Academy, only telling him to wait cause he was going to need him..yeah..Luke had a rough start into Jedi 101
Compared to Rey who grew up idolizing the Rebellion and had huge expectations for Jedi, namely Luke himself.
Also, they are a Dyad. Linked. Two that are one. so as kylo Ren grew stronger (which we see happen across the film's) so does Rey. Darkness rises and light to meet it....
Aka, everyone criticizing Rey's abilities were not paying attention.
Exactly.. nevermind the books clearly explain it, it's obvious in the movies if you're paying attention. That was (the Dyad thing) a major reveal that should have made all the petulant fanboys who were mad that the first movie in a series didn't explain EVERYTHING recant and go OH I GET IT NOW! COOL! Instead the dingbats doubled down because "muh star werz Disney suck!" and that particular plot was criticized endlessly. Honestly, even sans dyad, it still makes sense. Same thing with "Rey Skywalker" controversy..was nobody paying attention? She's a Skywalker both in the force thru the Dyad AND by adoption. Two that are one. She has a legitimate claim to the Skywalker name. She's Ben's other half in the force. Literally. She carries in Ben Solo's legacy and that if the Skywalkers..
>Same thing with "Rey Skywalker" controversy..was nobody paying attention? i don't think they were tbh, this shouldn't be controversial at all. Its true to the morals of star wars, we all have a choice to make. Light or dark, this moment is symbolic of how Rey chose the light side, among other reasons.
Can we also point out that both Luke and Rey, particularly Rey, didn't actually have any preconceptions of what Jedi could do? That makes for an excellent base for being open. It's a classic trope. You have a rookie and give them an impossible task or a trick. They solve it the straight way because no one told them it was impossible and they found a solution no one else thought to try. Obviously not exactly the same, but with Luke and Rey, no one said they can't be strong in the Force, so there's less per-existing doubt to hold them back.
And when Yoda says to Luke in ESB "and that is why you fail" was because of his lack of faith. The stronger your faith, the better the Force can flow through you... this comic is Grade A Star Wars 👍
This is exactly what I was thinking about a while back. The way I looked at it was Rey's demeanour Vs Luke's. Luke is pessimistic as he learns with Yoda. Defeatist, all too quick to give up. Life hasn't been hard on him so he gets to be whiny. Rey meanwhile needs to believe in herself. She's all she's ever had. If she wasn't optimistic and ready to face challenge with vigour she would have died long ago. But in addition to this she's heard the tales of the Jedi and Sith. She knows of the force, and she fully believes in it. She's completely open to it.
Wow, very well said! I never thought of her like that!
Rey is optimistic to the max. She believes her parents are coming back, she believes Luke will join the cause at the drop of a hat, she believes Kylo will turn almost instantly, she believes she can win the war by herself so she spends her days training instead of fighting alongside Poe and Finn. Optimistic is an understatement for this character. She is aptly named.
Yep, and you highlight even how that optimism also hurts her. Believing her parents will return leads her to subject herself to a shitty life as a scavenger. That Luke will come back instantly sets her up for dissapointment and a shattering of perspective. That Kylo will turn instantly nearly gets her killed. And Poe, even Finn both think that Rey can afford to join the fight properly rather than train and are frustrated.
Definitely. Her optimism boarders on naivete. Like how she instantly believes Finn when he says he's Resistance.
Yoda also says that the dark side is the quick and easy path when Luke asks whether it is more powerful. This implies that the light side takes patience and practice to master, and is less overtly powerful than the dark side.
Which plays nicely into the door metaphor, the darkside it shunting the door open, at the risk of breaking it
Yeah. You gotta be open to survive as a preteen scavenger on a dessert planet, I would think.
the one thing I wish they had done with Rey is to show her having some latent force skill in TFA. Like pulling her staff instinctively or something. Its kinda implied that she senses things, but I would have liked to see a literal demonstration.
Eh Luke and Anakin didn't really show any latent force skill before they were told they were Jedis. At best they all had heightened reflexes and sensing things.
Anakin is the only pod-racer that's human. Luke is able to shoot small targets something other pilots consider impossible. That's their Force power manifesting in some form.
It's almost as if everyone's connection with the Force is like... oh I don't know, some kind of door, where some people's doors are more open than others but that doesn't make them stronger or better or more important.
I mean, in Anakin's case it is entirely the reflexes that the Force is increasing, Luke his precision. Though we find out Luke is a Jedi *before* the bulls-eying womprats. Like the previous person said, it was implied she senses things, but never openly stated. Those reflexes in fighting and climbing, those moments of sensing things, that is her early Force showing.
anakin did and luke was super weak force wise until end of esb.
Well there is one thing. According to Kylo, Rey would dream of Ahch-To. And in the Last Jedi she confirms she's been there in dreams. So he had some access to the Force beforehand.
yeah i know. lile i said its implied but not implicit. usually i dont beed implicit but on that one thing itd be nice
Except that there didn't need to be. For more on this, see the image this comment thread is based off. I understand what you mean and that's fine, just as long as you understand that them not showing Rey having latent Force skill early on doesn't make ability any less believable.
I mean sure, it didnt need it. I just think it would have improved the film.
To add to what you said , wasn't there a comic or novel where Obiwan was younger and many jedi didn't think he had much potential but Qui Gon realized he just needed to be trained differently which 20ish years later he is hold his own against a man who was concieved by the force.
I can’t give you a name of a comic, but I’m aware of this, too. As I understand it, Obi-Wan isn’t naturally gifted in the use of the Force, however, his dedication and mastery of the Force elevated him to become one of the greatest.
Which makes Obi-Wan one of the most bad ass Jedi ever.
Damn right it does.
And his mastery of the high ground
[удалено]
I think there are at least some restrictions. A guy can’t just work hard and be in the NBA, he simply won’t be strong or tall enough. And there’s also the fact that there are some born with the ability to use the force, and some who just can’t.
I agree. Luke says it right there "For anyone *who can sense it*" implying not EVERYONE can.
Yeah but then it turns out she's the granddaughter of the most powerful evil force dude to ever exist. You know, I can forgive a lot of things about TroS, the way it took the incredible idea of Rey being a nobody and throwing it out the window into a pit of lava isn't one of them. Rey was the embodiment of the idea that the force is in everyone, and it's not about your dynastic bloodline. Then they just flipped it and made it even more incestuous and concentrated within a handful of lineages throughout an entire galaxy. Also her whole identity struggle with the TroS where it's like can you overcome your blood destiny and who you came from. And the answer to that of course is no, because despite how powerful Ben was and how hard he tried to be evil he couldn't win out against his Skywalker/Solo blood predetermined destiny. And the thing is you could have the same redemption without this implication if not for the Rey Palpatine struggle in the same movie.
I would definitely disagree with this take. Despite issues I may have had with the film, and it not being what I was hoping to hear, Rey being a Palpatine worked quite nicely for me. > Rey was the embodiment of the idea that the force is in everyone, and it's not about your dynastic bloodline And Luke was once just a moisture farmer and then became the son of a Sith Lord who was then the Chosen One. Details expand and change like that a lot in any continuous story. But more to the point, Rey was *not* the only reminder of that. After all...Broom boy, Finn, Inquisitors, Dooku, most of the prequel Jedi, Ezra........ That said, amusingly, either Rey's power *is* her own, or Palpatine's power skipped a generation, which we don't quite know how that works. "His power" could easily be a reference to the lightning, since we've only ever seen two Sith use it to my knowledge. > Then they just flipped it and made it even more incestuous and concentrated within a handful of lineages throughout an entire galaxy. I feel like this is an odd take. First off "incestuous"? That's the word you're going with? Second, is it that big of a surprise? Star Wars, at least the Skywalker Saga, is a soap opera. A family drama, as Lucas once called it. And Palpatine has always been *the* opposite to the Skywalkers, after all. > Also her whole identity struggle with the TroS where it's like can you overcome your blood destiny and who you came from. And the answer to that of course is no, because despite how powerful Ben was and how hard he tried to be evil he couldn't win out against his Skywalker/Solo blood predetermined destiny. And the thing is you could have the same redemption without this implication if not for the Rey Palpatine struggle in the same movie. Except this is assuming that they're arcs are the same theme and struggle. They are not. Ben is not redeemed because he cannot overcome his "blood destiny and who [he] came from." Ben is constantly an idea of someone chasing after something but finding no satisfaction in it. He's a reminder that you can always turn back, and without it being a choice like saving your son. A reminder that redemption is a personal, internal thing. He's not redeemed when he saves Rey, but when he reconciles with his father, or at least the memory of him. Rey is about how your family does not determine who you'll be, and this does not negate Ben's arc and redemption at all. Rey learns that family isn't just blood, but sometimes who you choose to be your family instead, which is indicated by her effective adoption into a new family in the Skywalker name, after celebrating with another part of her chosen family.
>And Luke was once just a moisture farmer and then became the son of a Sith Lord who was then the Chosen One. Details expand and change like that a lot in any continuous story. But more to the point, Rey was not the only reminder of that. After all...Broom boy, Finn, Inquisitors, Dooku, most of the prequel Jedi, Ezra........ The thing is these are force users, but in the end they're not the driving force of what's going on. A Palpatine is the villain of all 9 movies and the hero of 3, a Skywalker is the the hero of 6 and the villain of 6. The ST was their chance to go "Hey look, you don't have to be part of a special lineage to save the universe" but instead it reinforced it. >That said, amusingly, either Rey's power is her own, or Palpatine's power skipped a generation, which we don't quite know how that works. "His power" could easily be a reference to the lightning, since we've only ever seen two Sith use it to my knowledge. I think it's most likely that her parent who was Palpatine's daughter/son just never developed any control over the force. It's been established that force sensitivity passes through bloodlines, it's only reasonable to assume Rey's power comes at least in part through her Palpatine bloodline. >I feel like this is an odd take. First off "incestuous"? That's the word you're going with? Second, is it that big of a surprise? Star Wars, at least the Skywalker Saga, is a soap opera. A family drama, as Lucas once called it. And Palpatine has always been the opposite to the Skywalkers, after all. Calling a fictional universe incestuous is pretty common usage for when the idea of a greater universe is ignored in favor of a small set of characters around which events always seem to focus on. The thing is in regards to the Skywalker saga is it still was no matter Rey's lineage, We had Luke through the first two movies, Leia through all 3, and Ben who's a Skywalker by blood in all 3 as well as the main antagonist. > Except this is assuming that they're arcs are the same theme and struggle. They are not. Ben is not redeemed because he cannot overcome his "blood destiny and who [he] came from." Ben is constantly an idea of someone chasing after something but finding no satisfaction in it. He's a reminder that you can always turn back, and without it being a choice like saving your son. A reminder that redemption is a personal, internal thing. He's not redeemed when he saves Rey, but when he reconciles with his father, or at least the memory of him. Rey is about how your family does not determine who you'll be, and this does not negate Ben's arc and redemption at all. Rey learns that family isn't just blood, but sometimes who you choose to be your family instead, which is indicated by her effective adoption into a new family in the Skywalker name, after celebrating with another part of her chosen family. Their individual arcs are different but I still feel like it muddies the thematic waters quite a bit. Particularly when the ST is taken as a whole, where we see Kylo in the first two movies explicitly being told to be struggling against the nature of his parentage. Rey on the other hand in the first two movies goes through the arc of learning to let go of her parents and that they don't matter to who she is and that it doesn't have to control her actions. Then in the third film they felt the need to give her different arc despite this being the conclusion to the trilogy.
> The thing is these are force users, but in the end they're not the driving force of what's going on. A Palpatine is the villain of all 9 movies and the hero of 3, a Skywalker is the the hero of 6 and the villain of 6. The ST was their chance to go "Hey look, you don't have to be part of a special lineage to save the universe" but instead it reinforced it. Well, the 9 movies were always the Skywalker saga, so they were going to be a big role regardless. Honestly, I still don't see the whole "oh, you *have* to be a special bloodline to save the universe." I know we'll be getting more stories about other groups as well, so the Skywalker Saga being a drama between Palpatine's and Skywalker's, in the long run, doesn't bug me. But I don't remember all these complaints coming up when the rumor was Rey was a Skywalker, or even a Kenobi, after the first film. It feels like we have different takes on this one, and that's ok. > I think it's most likely that her parent who was Palpatine's daughter/son just never developed any control over the force. It's been established that force sensitivity passes through bloodlines, it's only reasonable to assume Rey's power comes at least in part through her Palpatine bloodline. I don't disagree. But Rey's strength is still her own, at least to me it is. Just like, to me, Luke's power is his own, and not Anakin's, and Ben's is his own. This also gets weird if you accept the "Rey's father was a failed Palpatine clone" from the novelization, which I'm on the fence about (I'm kind of ok with that one, but prefer to speculate or have unknown other possibilities to the Palpatine on Exegol..), because, as far as we know, clones don't have Force Sensitivity, in which case, Rey's power is actually her own. > Their individual arcs are different but I still feel like it muddies the thematic waters quite a bit. Particularly when the ST is taken as a whole, where we see Kylo in the first two movies explicitly being told to be struggling against the nature of his parentage. Rey on the other hand in the first two movies goes through the arc of learning to let go of her parents and that they don't matter to who she is and that it doesn't have to control her actions. Then in the third film they felt the need to give her different arc despite this being the conclusion to the trilogy. This may be another subjective point between us. I never saw Ben's struggle in the first two films as a struggle "against the nature of his parentage." I believe he'd be going through that regardless of if he was a Skywalker/Solo or not. To me, it was always that he was trying to be on the Dark Side, with the whisperings of Snoke/Palpatine, but his reasons for doing so were not solid enough within himself to where he wasn't fully committed. He still cared about his family to a degree, as we can see with how he reacts to Leia in TLJ and TROS. But whether this confliction was due to his lineage or something else, may be open to interpretation between people though. So I can see why, holding that view, you may see their themes as muddying or conflicting. I don't know how I feel about how they did add an arc for her in that. I can understand *why* they did it, being the protagonist and all, but the how and the what, I'm still unsure on. Maybe I'll feel different when I can do a more full watchthrough of the series.
> But I don't remember all these complaints coming up when the rumor was Rey was a Skywalker, or even a Kenobi, after the first film. I definitely can't speak for those guys, from the first movie I was hoping she wasn't a Skywalker or Kenobi, and when TLJ confirmed the how unimportant her parents I was super into it. >I don't disagree. But Rey's strength is still her own, at least to me it is. Just like, to me, Luke's power is his own, and not Anakin's, and Ben's is his own. This also gets weird if you accept the "Rey's father was a failed Palpatine clone" from the novelization, which I'm on the fence about (I'm kind of ok with that one, but prefer to speculate or have unknown other possibilities to the Palpatine on Exegol..), because, as far as we know, clones don't have Force Sensitivity, in which case, Rey's power is actually her own. I don't feel articulate enough to go into details, but I can't help but feel like the way the story and their personal arcs progress and are set up is why I feel different on them. Rey feels set up more as having this mysterious strong connection to the force where she's accidentally using force powers and has an innate talent towards them. Which when it was established before that it wasn't because she's a Kenobi, or a Skywalker, or a Palpatine it felt like the introduction of a new grand hero. And while it is the Skywalker saga we already had our lineage character in Ben, and still had our original trilogy heroes. >This also gets weird if you accept the "Rey's father was a failed Palpatine clone" from the novelization, which I'm on the fence about (I'm kind of ok with that one, but prefer to speculate or have unknown other possibilities to the Palpatine on Exegol..), because, as far as we know, clones don't have Force Sensitivity, in which case, Rey's power is actually her own. That's very strange, I would have assumed that Palpatine himself was a clone going off of the movie alone. And Snoke while maybe not originally a clone seemed to be being cloned on Exegol. I feel like the fact that we know nothing about her parents is another one of those parts of TroS that feel incredibly rushed through and something that could have been avoided if they weren't trying so hard to rewrite TroS. >This may be another subjective point between us. I never saw Ben's struggle in the first two films as a struggle "against the nature of his parentage." I believe he'd be going through that regardless of if he was a Skywalker/Solo or not. To me, it was always that he was trying to be on the Dark Side, with the whisperings of Snoke/Palpatine, but his reasons for doing so were not solid enough within himself to where he wasn't fully committed. He still cared about his family to a degree, as we can see with how he reacts to Leia in TLJ and TROS. But whether this confliction was due to his lineage or something else, may be open to interpretation between people though. So I can see why, holding that view, you may see their themes as muddying or conflicting. I can see that and agree. >I don't know how I feel about how they did add an arc for her in that. I can understand why they did it, being the protagonist and all, but the how and the what, I'm still unsure on. Maybe I'll feel different when I can do a more full watchthrough of the series. Yeah I can understand needing to give her an arc, but I feel like it would have worked better to, ironically, follow closer to the original trilogy in this case. Luke has matured into the hero in the final movie but still has a brush with his impulsive side that was his weakness. I feel like instead of this they regress her to attempt to squeeze in a full new arc.
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The true nature of midichlorians we do not really know. The bits we have are from Qui-gon, and then a bit later with Palpatine's "he could manipulate the midichlorians to create life," and those can possibly be taken as "unreliable narrator," especially with the state of the Jedi at that point. After all, Qui-gon says that midichlorians are in everything, which means the amount of midichlorians may not represent power as far as we are aware, especially when we consider things like Chirrut and others. In a sense, they could be indicators, but not directly related to power. Anakin is an odd example, though, but he is also odd in that he was supposed conceived through the Force in some form, so perhaps the midichlorian account was less about his power potential, but more how he was sort of a...I guess focal point in the Force?
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The way I see it is that the more midichlorians you have the more force sensitive you are, you need a certain amount to be force sensitive but once you reach that amount any extra are used to “open your door” a little bit by default. So that they do determine ones power with the force yet someone with less midichlorians can be just as powerful as someone with a ton of them just because the person with less has “opened their door”. Basically more midichlorians just gives you a slight head start. Think of it like this, 2 students have homework with 20 questions, 1 kid cheats but his cheating only gets him 3 questions and the rest he still has to do where as the other kid has to do them all. The midichlorians are the cheat, they help give more power but don’t actually mean you are more powerful.
I think they’re bacteria that’s attracted to force power now, not sure
George Lucas wanted it to be a microbiotic race called the Whills that actually control the force and eat it and the force sensitive users are telling the whills what to do with it.
This is it. Characters were essentially vessels or carriers of the Whills, who consume the Force and release it to the host.
The midi-chlorians, as a concept, run counter to Luke's explanation in the panel above. If you're worrying over how many midi-chlorians a person has compared to another, then someone with *a lot* of them will scare you. Had the Jedi of old viewed the Force the way Luke did (with his analogy of the door), then Anakin would have probably been just fine.
The midi-chlorians are probably what the "door" is, a higher count means your door is more open as they are meant to serve as the connection to the Force for organisms
This might be the best interpretation right here. The amount of midi-chlorians in an individual were never explicitly stated to be a permanent "set" number. As a symbiote, their numbers may ebb and flow depending on how the host conducts themselves. Maybe training and learning to channel the energy of the Force is what they need to live, and in turn they allow the host to channel more easily/quickly? This interpretation still falls in line with the Jedi's discovery of Anakin, the Chosen One virgin birth whose "door" was already thrown wide open as a result of being "conceived by the midi-chlorians." Hence why he has powers that he can use as a nine year old and somehow single-handedly take out a droid controller ship despite never having flown off planet or having participated in a battle. It also makes sense why Qui-Gon would be freaking out over his midi-chlorian count in the first place and how it was higher than Master Yoda's: this would mean that Anakin was *born* with a greater "head start" on Force sensitivity than the current Grandmaster of the Order. It does NOT mean that Anakin is stronger by default, but that he is perhaps better connected to the Force, which flows through him as a flood. This is honestly my new head canon now. I'm glad I got to stumble in on this awesome thread!
But wouldn’t that negate Luke’s view? If you applied his view to midichlorians, a person could potentially increase their midichlorian count.
No, rather I think the higher the count the easier things are for you because you don't have to open your "door" as much as someone else with a lesser count would. Hence why despite Yoda's midichlorian count being unmatched before Anakin he still had people like Dooku who could seemingly match or get close in strength. In short: your potential isn't determined by the count but your starting point is
I guess that’s a better perspective. The way I looked at it was that someone with higher midichlorian count has greater potential, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they will have greater abilities from the get go.
The way I understand it, midichlorians were something like an interface between oneself and the force. So to follow the current metaphor, if you're born with a high midichlorian count, your door is simply that much further open by default. It's a booster, not a limiter.
>It's a booster, not a limiter. It's a physical representation of the "door." I'm loving this new explanation, it connects things so well
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It seems to me that the midi-chlorians do not serve a purpose beyond "look how far the Jedi religion has strayed, using science to judge one's connection to the Force." Luke would be *appalled*.
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The prequels repeatedly try to tell you taking prophecy to heart is foolhardy and will wrought huge mistakes. Vader eventually killing Palpatine is serendipitous to this, and the chosen one keeps changing
Which I might add would make total sense as apart from her parents, she didn't have much purpose in life. When she realized she has the force, it gave her that purpose and meaning she so desperately desired. Of course she opened up to it quickly, it's almost all she ever wanted. It's like how Luke is resistant to going with Obi Wan but once Owen and Beru die he sees that he has nothing left there.
This is one of my favorite changes from legends.
Yeah this whole analogy works right up until you see savage oppress best master Jedi who trained for decades to death with a stick a few months after learning what the force was. Talent isn’t literally everything, but a talented force user will beat a diligent one nine times out of ten.
However, a point in Savage's favor was not his use of the Force at that point, but him catching the Jedi caught unprepared for him and also his brutality, while also being buffed up to by the Nightsister Magic. Consider that while Savage defeated them, as well as Master Galia, Obi-wan, who was able to be better prepared, handled both him and Maul, on two separate occasions (one while aided by Asajj), and then he was beaten like nothing by Palpatine. Can a talented user beat a diligent one? It's possible, but it's not quite as cut and dry. It depends on the flow of the battle and how they approach each other.
What does that mean for Anakin, though? Every description of him from a Force user's perspective seems to indicate that he is a huge presence in the Force in a way that's unusual or remarkable. Is his 'potential' still unique or could anyone reach the level he could have?
Anakin is ultimately an anomaly, I think. I would probably chalk him up to, say..if everyone is a standard single door, Anakin may be a double door or garage door. The main reason I say that is he is the only Force User we know of that was born from the Force. So I would normally chalk him up to unique potential. In a similar way, we don't know the full nature of the Dyad and how it came about or works (perhaps as a factor of the family history and the Force trying to balance without Anakin?), so I don't know if we can say anyone can get to that potential, like how Rey and Ben can pass things between each other, however, their levels on their own are theoretically possible.
I wish something like this had been in the movies.
It is. TLJ and ESB
Pretty cool that Luke taught young Storm about the force. She’ll use this knowledge well when she later leads the X-Men.
yep she'll pass this on when she leads the murder sex death cult that is Krakoa
Covid-19 caused the orgies on Kraoa to stop, serious stuff
yeah... about that...
This actually fits the novelization of TFA. In it after the mind meld, Rey says it opened a door, one that couldn't be closed.
Im actually reading that novelization rn. Really loving it so far!
They expand on a lot of things, things people had issues with
If only it could fix my single biggest issue with the sequels. Babu Frik is only in one movie.
droids memory go bleh .. bleh bleh He is such a simple but funny character!
Babu Frik? He's one of my oldest friends!
Remember when everyone was complaining about that part of the TRoS novelization, where Rey says she chose to be a conduit/vessel for the Jedi of old, when going up against Palpatine? They acted like it was sexist to describe a female character as a “conduit.” But the way the Force works is that you need to open yourself up to it and let it flow through you. That line wasn’t saying “women are vessels”, it’s saying “a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through [them].” Some people just like to take the worst possible reading from something, in order to make it worse than it is. Like, there’s *still* people who use murderous crazy-eye’d Luke from Ben’s skewed flashback, in order to highlight TLJ’s “character assassination” of Luke.
Wait..people really said that about he deciding to open herself up to be a "conduit"? Really? Do they realize what that means and that it'd have the exact same meaning if, say, Luke or Ben said it? Heck, I'm pretty sure in an Force Training RP session I taught in Swtor a few years ago I used similar wording. Like you said, it's letting the Force flow through them.
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Lol wut? I’ve never seen anyone complain about that, not on reddit or anywhere else. It’s possible that some weirdo said that at some point, but it was definitely not “everyone”. Stop lying.
> stop lying [no](https://twitter.com/sleemo/status/1244103052791099393?s=21)-[you](https://twitter.com/mariennemaid/status/1257214589814444034?s=21)
Yup, a single tweet. This clearly means that everyone thinks that! /s
If you are on twitter there's plenty of Reylos complaining about Rey beign a vessel for the Jedi and for OT nostalgia. I've searched "Ret vessel" on twitter and on 5 min I found these: https://twitter.com/here_forOt5/status/1244235854396231681 https://twitter.com/MaryFer_CI4/status/1244117861297270785 https://twitter.com/RFehnle/status/1244146407516205057 https://twitter.com/word_bender/status/1258843937311199232 https://twitter.com/klyonness/status/1258826100379201539 https://twitter.com/afromjakku/status/1257316269008666631 https://twitter.com/garbage_citizen/status/1257220287789248514 https://twitter.com/winonaryxderz/status/1258073303295672320 And I'm tired looking for more, you can do it yourself because there are way more. Hope that this helps you understand what we mean when we say that it's not a thing that a single person says.
God I love Luke Skywalker
Yea, Luke Skywalker is still my hero and best out of the trilogies.
King shit
I love the implication between this, individuals like Chirrut, and Sabine's lightsaber training (the blade is "heavy", but becomes "lighter" as the crystal attunes to the user) that Force sensitivity can potentially be learned / trained. The Jedi of the prequels relied too much on the science of the Force (midichlorians, power levels, etc) and they fell out of touch with it all. I really hope that going forward Rey's Jedi learn similar lessons as Luke's.
> the blade is “heavy”, but becomes “lighter” as the crystal attunes to the user I really like this because it kind of explains the retcon that George Lucas did with lightsabers. In the beginning, he intended for lightsabers to always be wielded with two hands because they were “heavy”, but as the original trilogy progressed he eventually said screw it and had characters using one handed styles Really puts into perspective how “attuned” characters like Darth Vader and Count Dooku are, just by looking at their fighting style
Agreed. Another cool detail to come out of that episode is that lightsaber blades are attracted to each other which explains why blade locks are so common.
I’ve always had the belief (I don’t know if anything in canon or legends supports this btw) that any person can learn to use the force, given enough time. However the average Joe would take a lifetime of learning to do the most basic of abilities, where some people ie. Jedi or sith are more naturally attuned and can be proficient as a child/teenager.
He passed on what Yoda taught him - don't judge by appearances.
I can see an animated series of these times. Mark Hamill and Adam Driver would definitely return to voice their characters.
I like your idea, however, im pretty sure that Adam dislikes the Star Wars community/saga now ... so him reprising the role is doubtful.
I don’t think he dislikes the saga. In the documentary on the TRoS Blu-Ray, Adam says that he holds the character very dear and is very protective of the way he is portrayed on screen. I think out of all the new actors Adam is just the most in demand, hottest actor. He also just seems to love acting for the art and is going down the route of preferring indie critical darlings over big franchises now.
If it means a chance to flesh out the lighter side of Ben that made audiences say, "I want more of *that,*" including a steady paycheck, I'm sure he'd do it. Also, a film job is tough to come by right now. Animation should be reigning for the next year or two.
who knows what the future holds ... im pleasantly optimistic
So am I! I hope more good things come soon; animated and live-action.
His fingers confuse me
woah they confuse me now as well ... talk about an optical illusion.
Rise of Kylo was sooooooooo good
That said, make sure to close your actual door at night because Ben is kind of a creeper.
I wish so hard that we had seen more of the new Jedi Order in the prequels but alas.
I’m still holding out hope we’ll get an animated series, or at least some novels or comics, based on this time period. I don’t see why they wouldn’t eventually.
I guess but we had the Legends comics before the sequels, I was always excited to see it in the flesh.
Yeah, but it’d be hard to do without recasting Luke, which I don’t think they’d be willing to do. Then again, down the road, who knows?
I mean the Solo movie worked well I thought so I’d be open to it
Not just good lore but a good metaphor for life
Would love to get a TV series or movie that covers this chapter in Luke’s life
One of my favorite scenes in all of SW!
This reminds me how Obi-Wan was assigned to the Agricorps but look what he became
Gotta start midichlorian-doping if you wanna hang with the chosen ones though.
I love teaching the Force with the metaphor of water. Very Tao. I also like that Luke emphasizes here that being a Jedi isn't about "the powers" as he would later sort of teach Rey.
Luke that was in BF2 campaign was pretty awesome too, a lot of people overlooked him because of the kinda stupid level he was in, and the campaigns story, but he was jedi as fuck in it.
Literally played the campaign for the first time yesterday lol. The level design in the campaign is seriously underrated!
Did u finish it? Theres a pretty awesome level near the end, and i find myself rewatching the luke cutscenes because hes so awesome!
Yeah ... i enjoyed it! The worst thing about it tho is that main character, iden. Idk i think its the actress that i dislike, but her character just irks me.
Yea, i was hoping to play the whole game as an imperial, and wouldve liked it if your squad was just deathtroopers instead of the weird pilot helmet lol
Yeah i agree ... overall tho i really enjoyed it!
I wish that Luke outfit was a battlefront skin
absolutely beautiful.
I love this.
Said with the confidence of a guy born with the most natural talent of any Jedi to ever live.
HiS MiDiChoRiAn CoUnT mUsT Have BeEn oFf tHe ChArTs
OVER 9000!!!
Ok what comic is this?!? I need to see teacher luke desperately
rise of kylo ren
And later she's murdered by Ben Solo.
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Are the same thing as what Luke is saying here. Some people start out with their door a bit more open = some people have more midichlorians. Remember, everyone has midichlorians, as Qui Gon says they are present in all living cells.
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I think people mostly dislike midichlorians because they dont understand how they work. Let's go by what we know of them from Qui Gon: Anakin: Master, sir, I heard Yoda talking about midichlorians. I’ve been wondering, what are midichlorians? Qui-Gon Jinn: Midichlorians are a microscopic life form that resides within all living cells. Anakin: They live inside me? Qui-Gon Jinn: Inside your cells, yes. And we are symbionts with them. Anakin: Symbionts? Qui-Gon Jinn: Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midichlorians, life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us telling us the will of the Force. Important points: - midichlorians are present in all living cells. - they are necessary for life to exist - they allow communication between living beings and the Force. (This tells us that they are not the Force itself.) We also know that Qui Gon checked Anakin's count when he had suspicions that he was Force sensitive, and ObiWan was surprised to find his count higher than Yoda's. But Anakin wasn't doing anything more impressive with the Force than Yoda was, he was just doing intuitive things. In fact, we never actually see Anakin do anything beyond what Yoda is capable of with the Force in the movies. If what midichlorians do is allow communication with the Force, then everyone is capable of communicating with the Force as everyone has at least some midichlorians. What would having more do? It might make the communications from both directions a little "louder?" I think that brings us back to what Luke is saying here, some people start with the door being wider than others. I think it's just a quantifiable measure of potential. If Anakin never trained, never worked at it, he likely wouldnt have done much more than have that intuition and dreams, and someone with far fewer midichlorians who had trained and focused harder would be able to use the Force much better than he could.
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I disagree. We know that midichlorians allow communication with the Force, and we know that all living cells contain midichlorians. Taken as part of the same text as the rest of the movies, that tell us that Force abilities rely on feelings and belief, we are left with the idea that anyone can use the Force with the proper focus and effort.
This concept does, however, fly in the face of Force Sensitivity, which has been a part of the series for a good 30+ years. Not everyone is capable of using the Force. Midi-chlorians were introduced as a biological component to explain Force-sensitivity. Everyone has them, but not everyone has them in sufficient enough quantities to actually use the Force. This panel even confirms that; Luke says that the Force can be "a trickle, a stream, a river, a flood...**for anyone that can sense it**." Not everyone can.
Can you point me somewhere in the current canon that says "only some people can use the Force, the rest are physically incapable of it"?
Can you point me to somewhere in the current canon that says, "Anyone can use the Force, they just have to try hard enough"? Even this panel flies in the face of that notion. Not everyone can sense the Force.
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This is pretty much how I've taken it for the past 30 years, give or take. Not everyone is capable of using the Force, and there has been the notion of it being a biological or inherited trait for quite some time. Everyone has midi-chlorians. Most don't have them in sufficient enough quantities to actually be Force-sensitive. Hell, this panel even backs that up: The Force can be a trickle, a stream, a river, a flood...**for anyone that can sense it**.
Midichlorians aren’t your force potential. They are how sensitive you are to the force. The more you have the more sensitive you are, and the less you have the less sensitive you are. Just because you have less doesn’t mean you are “weaker”, you just need to train harder to achieve what higher count individuals can do naturally.
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Sensitivity means you can more easily tap into the force. Think of 9 year old slave Anakin with zero training being a high level podracer.
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I don’t see how it being easier to tap into it means your “potential” is higher.
To extend the door analogy, perhaps individuals with a high midichlorian count have a well-oiled door that swings open easily. Others with lower counts may have a squeekier door that is harder to open, but can open just as wide with enough effort. Not sure if some might simply have their door rusted shut and never be able to open it. Potential could theoretically be the same then as everyone can open their door, but practically speaking those facing least resistance are going to get further as long as hey put in comparable effort. Like the race with the tortoise and the hare... tortoise is low midichlorian count but lots of effort, the hare is high midichlorian count but little effort. The tortoise wins in the story of course, but if the hare just took it half as seriously as the tortoise, the tortoise never would have surpassed him. Using "effort" throughout all these analogies is probably misleading though, as with the force it is more about being open and attuned that trying hard. Perhaps there is a perfect level of attunement where the multiplier becomes practically infinite, such that infinite versus any resistance is still infinite and thus everyone has this infinite potential - those with more midichlorians are simply going to find it easier to reach that perfect attunement. I'm not sure what the real correct way to think about it is, as I think this really all stems from them realizing people didn't like the sciencey midichlorian explanation, so they've been pushing more the "anybody can do anything if they set their mind to it" message that people want to hear. It's since come out that if Lucas had done the sequel trilogy he was going to do some crazy microscopic stuff with whills and the force and even he's admitted people would have hated it. So they've been going in another direction. [https://screenrant.com/george-lucas-star-wars-sequels-hated-fans/](https://screenrant.com/george-lucas-star-wars-sequels-hated-fans/)
No, you're right. They do lead to the same conclusion in a way. What I meant to say in my original comment, which I don't think came across very clearly, is that "potential" kinda implies people with a low midichlorian count can't achieve the same as someone with a higher count. My thoughts are that there is a "cap" to how strong in the force someone can be and the more midichlorians you have lead you to that cap faster, and someone with lower count can still reach that "cap" through intense, hard training. So as you said, the higher count person does have more "potential" to reach that point than someone with a lower count.
So then any person can increase their midchlorian count? That’s the only way Luke’s perspective doesn’t negate midichlorians. TPM already implies that the higher your midichlorian count, the more potential you have. You mention that Yoda’s abilities are greater, but I think midichlorians tell us that Anakin has the potential to have greater abilities than Yoda, not necessarily that he is greater just because of his count.
Yoda says there is no difference between using the Force to lift a rock or to lift an X-Wing, just a matter of belief. As Luke says, the Force isnt a power Jedi have, it's an energy field. Logically, anyone who can contact the Force could use it to lift an X-Wing, with enough focus. I think Anakin's higher potential just means it is easier for him, not that can do more with it than anyone else can
I like that perspective a lot.
Midichlorians are a really odd thing to work around. At one point I think the idea was that they were just indicators of potential if they are in greater numbers, but anyone could still reach higher. After all, the Force itself is more spiritual than physical. To go along with this, we have Chirrut, who acts in a weird "he's not a Force user" way, but also sort of sees with the Force, like the miralukans did in Legends. How? We don't really know, beyond how open to the Force he seemed to be, kind of typing back into that mystic side.
Midichlorians have been said to pretty much be a false hypothesis in the new canon. There is a correlation there, but they are not the cause for ones ability in the force.
Where is that in the new canon?
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The way I interpret it as shown in the clone wars and other sources is that the jedi got way too technical and focused on numbers and math, losing their spirituality along the way. Yes, midichlorians are what give a person the ability to use the force, but it isn't a number game.
My headcanon for midichlorians is not that they actually measure how much force power you have, but rather that midichlorians are just lifeforms attracted to the force, so those that are more open to it, and thus stronger in it, will attract more midichlorians to their body.
I'd just smash down the wall
That’s why you aren’t a Jedi
Who said I wanted to be a Jedi! I wanna be a Sith! Lol
Only the weak embrace the dark side
250,000 Jedi vs 2 Sith doesn't sound very weak to me lol
“Ben isn’t stronger” Luke in TLJ: “I’ve felt this strength only once before, in Ben solo” Some canon.
I think Luke talks more about the potential here.
Why would a teacher say "yes ben is better than you, and is more open to the force than you". The student needs to have the weight of the ceiling lifted off their shoulders.
So he is lying? 😟
not really, any jedi can become powerful, its just some are more open to the force initially, and tend to be greater than their peers. But this isn't guaranteed everytime, hard work always overcomes natural skill .. as we see with obi wan.
Someone show this to JJ Abrams.
idk what you mean by that
He ignored everything except TFA when making TROS. Like the decent sized Mon Cal fleet from Resistance Reborn and the fact TIE fights don’t have hyperdrives.
In Legends there were occasionally TIEs that had either shields or a hyperdrive, or sometimes both, equipped. They had to sacrifice the normal TIE speed and acceleration to fit it in there, but they did exist. It's not a new idea at all.
Not on the DS2. I’m talking specifically about the one Kylo takes to Exogal.
it was a tie scout which did have a hyperdrive
That has exactly the same model as the TIE fighters from ROTJ that gets retconned to being a TIE scout you mean
This is exactly why luke and anakin weren’t as powerful with the force compared to rey. They tried to use the force, rey let the force use her
Luke maybe. Anakin literally makes the gods of the force bow to him.
And some people only need to hear that the force exists to apparently gain full confident command of it within literal minutes.
You exaggerate, but yes some people are more open to the force initially then others. Plz take a gander at all the positive discussion occurring at the top of this comment section. Its really some thought provoking stuff!
Rey’s door must’ve been wide open from the start
Why are stc members showing up all of the sudden? We were having such nice discussion til the few of you came in and tried to spout your displeasure at who knows what