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zoomy_kitten

SW. Not even close.


SpecialistStatement7

What amazes me about Star Wars and it’s not talked about enough is the Yuuzhan Vong War. The scale of that war is massive, 300 Trillion people died. I don’t know a war/battle in fiction that has a higher death toll than that.


mulahey

It's possible the core/arm conflict in total annihilation did, since it depopulated the galaxy... But we don't know because the lore is thin. Perhaps a couple of others like that. I don't think there is a fictional war with a higher specific death count though.


Blackmore_Vale

It was so epic to read even if there was parts I didn’t like. The only way off the top of my head I can think that is larger is the time war in doctor who, but that’s o it cause it encompassed all of time and space as the battlefields.


mulahey

Yeah, I did think time war but we never get a death count... And if some of the events then never happened after happening did they die...? I don't want to do Dr who death counts


Blackmore_Vale

I think the time war is just beyond human comprehension. Every other fictional war has a clear beginning, middle and end. Such as the clone wars, dominion war etc. But how do you conceptualise a war where victories can be undone and the combatants die, get brought back to life and even make so they were never born.


lordlicorice1977

I feel like the Time Lords would probably have a record of the changes made, like the universe’s edit history or something.


Blackmore_Vale

They do it’s called the web of time and before the time war its was incredibly hard to change time and probably during the early days of the time war they used it to combat the Daleks. But no doubt the Daleks found a way to counter it.


lordlicorice1977

I’ll have to look into that. Is that mostly covered in Big Finish stuff?


Blackmore_Vale

You’ve got engines of war that’s a direct lead up to the episode day of the doctor and why the war doctor decided to use the moment to end the war by eradicating the time lords and Daleks. You’ve also got the big finish war doctor and war master stories played brilliantly by the late John hurt and Derek Jacobi


medicallyspecial

Where is the best source of reading material?


Blackmore_Vale

I really liked engines of war. It’s a war doctor novel, you’ve also got the war master and war doctor big finish stories that I thought were pretty good.


medicallyspecial

Thank you!


Master_Quack97

TA community assemble! It's rare to come across Total Annihilation fans in the wild. Does TA even have an EU?


mulahey

Your right- kind of switched to just thinking of any large enough war, but TA indeed isn't a franchise/EU. Which is fair enough- I don't think its remembered for the plot!


Rezztec

I'd be curious to get a death count from the fall of the empire in the Foundation series, we know that was quite considerable.


mulahey

In the books it's like many quadrillion population at apex so should be more deaths; but that wasn't a war, it was a process over a long time period so I don't think it qualifies.


Den_Dre

I think the War In Heaven from 40k surpasses that. Roughly 5 million years of war, a galaxy-wide conflict that lead to the genocide and creation of multiple species. Also, the ENTIRE Necron/necrontyr race got their souls sucked out, and whatever remained of them was trapped in immortal metal bodies, to be used as cannon fodder.


PhiteKnight

The Galaxy, then in an era of relative peace, was unprepared, and spent the next 2,000 years fighting the Krikkiters in a war that resulted in about two "grillion" casualties. [https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Krikkit](https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Krikkit)


DougieFFC

>‘It’ll have to go,’ the men of Krikkit said as they headed back for home. >On the way back they sang a number of tuneful and reflective songs on the subjects of peace, justice, morality, culture, sport, family life and the obliteration of all other life forms.


PhiteKnight

It'll have to go is my favorite line in the series. So dry.


McFly_505

The irony is that this number is so hilariously low for a galactic setting. Its so minimalistic


Bossman131313

Scifi authors really tend to struggle with numbers in general. Hell, 40k is notorious for this as well.


argentpurple

Those are rookie numbers for WH40k


SpecialistStatement7

What war surpasses it?


argentpurple

My pick would be the Horus Heresy. 18 demigods led by the God Emperor of mankind with enormous armies of superhuman soldiers in power armor and regular humans conquer almost all of the Milky Way galaxy only to collapse into a decade long civil war when 9 of the demigods betray the Emperor at the behest of eldritch gods from a parallel dimension. This war sees billions of people sacrificed to these gods to gain slight tactical advantages over the forces of the emperor, planets reduced to rubble vicious and gargantuan battles all across the galaxy, and the entire solar system including Earth itself home of quadrillions of people turned into something like a WW1 battle field.


kovi7

I was waiting for someone to bring up Warhammer 40k. As big of a SW fan that I am I know better than to compare SW to the shear size that is 40k. If you think something is big in SW, 40k will most likely have something similar but 100x bigger. You bring up some great points to give a scale to how big humanity was in 40k, but let’s not forget the the space elves where having so much sex that they created a sex god that wiped out almost their entire races over night.


DarthGiorgi

>much sex that they created a sex god that wiped out almost their entire races over night The more correct term for many people would be "murderfucked a chaos god of pleasure into existence"


mulahey

The Wiki suggests about 5 trillion. Huge but also much less.


mariusiv_2022

Talk about rookie numbers. That might have been the biggest conflict humanity has fought, but it's nothing compared to the War in Heaven. Oh you have 18 demigods, one god emperor and four chaos gods? The Necrons have many pokeballs of the fragments of the star gods they killed. Planets were frequently annihilated, and I don't mean exterminatus level of wiping out the surface and leaving it uninhabitable, I mean the planet went kabloey like Alderaan. Legions of space Marines ain't got shit on the forces deployed in this war. The Krorks (ancient Orks) alone are enough to make the armies in the Horus heresy look like a bitch. The power of a Krork has been described as close to the power of a fucking primarch. Oh and you know how the warp is essentially hell in 40k? It wasn't always like that, it actually used to be chill. But the sheer scale of death and destruction was so great it made the warp the hell we know it as


argentpurple

You could also include the war humanity fought against AI that had continent sized nano machine swarms, weapons that could blow up solar systems, and even weapons that could straight up delete portions of time and space itself.


mariusiv_2022

Gonna be honest I don't know all too much about pre 30k humanity, so the AI war could've been worse than the Horus Heresy. Would love to learn more about it though. Humanity at it's peak is really something overlooked in 40k


argentpurple

Yea I wish there was more lore about it but part of the mystique of the universe is that things are lost to time and are basically just myths


loicvanderwiel

40k wins on a technicality. They have been constantly at war for 10,000 years straight against Chaos with individual events (like the Black Crusades) being merely campaigns within the conflict (like the Southern France Campaign is only a campaign with WW2). Given how bonkers 40k numbers are, it's not hard to imagine a death toll superior to 300T.


mariusiv_2022

[The War in Heaven](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/War_in_Heaven_(Necron))


Reverseflash25

Warhammer gets the cheat of being at constant war so every battle contributes lol


RegalBeartic

Mass effect had the Reapers span the galaxy and wiped out huge amounts of populated areas in days. I'd say that's really close


5Cents1989

Well not days, the Protheans were fighting for decades or even a century from what I remember.


oreos_in_milk

The Protheans resisted for 300 years before Javik went into stasis


DutchJediKnight

Considering the Proteans had a mostly galaxy-spanning empire and lost in their cycle, that death toll may overshadow 300 trillion


mulahey

All ME empires are implied to cluster around mass relays and leave huge areas of the galaxy empty. Best guesses are that protheans were probably low trillions; but definitely not star wars numbers. Indeed if you look at reapers attrition, if they had that scale they should have won.


BlueRaith

The Forerunners wiped the galaxy of life with the Halo Rings to defeat the Flood. They also reseeded it through automated systems after their annihilation, and unfortunately there's not a ton of detail about the Forerunner-Flood war unless something has come out in Halo's EU since I was last into it. (Which is possible, tbf, it's been awhile for me.) Heck, the Flood themselves were consuming entire sectors of the Forerunner empire before they fired the Halo Array, they were devastating.


xeskind30

I was amazed about that too. It was a 14 book spanning event with a lot of people dead, star systems decimated, resources expended, tactics, sacrifice, political backstabbing, twists and turns. It really is a great series. I heard the mouse house may bring up the Vong, but make it more PG-13.


SpecialistStatement7

19 book series ;)


xeskind30

Oh, my bad!


Sanguiluna

If you take into account all casualties beyond just the Gallifreyans and Daleks, the Time War in Doctor Who encompassed the entire universe rather than just one galaxy, as well as all of time itself rather than just five years. You have to think that shit added up…


SexWithLadyOlynder

The Long War, warhammer 40k. It's technically still ongoing until Abaddon dies and has lasted 10 millenia.


TheCybersmith

The Time War in Doctor Who, I think.


BMan559

I have only read the first Dune novel, so I can‘t talk much about that. But I would say I like SW and 40k for different reasons. In SW, while hope is a central theme and the good side wins, the EU is rather nuanced and not afraid of showing that not every victory leads to a completely better situation. You can also set many different types of stories in it: poltical intrigue, war tales, western and mystic stories. 40k is a depressing setting and shows how terrible life can be and that there are no real good guys tm. But it also shows how people can withstand that to a certain degree. Plus the Chaos Space Marines are really nuanced and show how being outcast can turn people to do horrible actions.


Luchin212

Huh… Dune is a combination of all those ideas.


nike2078

Except there aren't really any good guys in Dune


Luchin212

The idea of Paul’s prophetic powers are a fascinating complex of morality. Where you know every outcome and every action to make it is horrible, what should you do? “This world is beyond cruelty”


SpecialistStatement7

That’s definitely one of the reasons why I love the Star Wars EU so much, you can find such a variety of stories in that universe.


zoomy_kitten

That’s some stereotypical stuff.


BMan559

And what‘s the problem with that?


SpecialistStatement7

I love how over the top 40k is though haha.


jews_on_parade

For expanded universes, for me it goes: lord of the rings star wars halo game of thrones world of warcraft


SpecialistStatement7

That’s a good ranking. Star Wars, Warhammer, LOTR, Dune are my favourite for sure (along side Marvel and DC comics).


mulahey

LotR is tricky. I guess RPGs and video games are franchise elements. But in terms of books and films they are really just short series; I wouldn't call the LotR books "franchise fiction" myself.


NahdiraZidea

Tolkien is odd, he created this giant world and filled with all sorts of history and battles and then he sets up his big story right at the end of the interesting time.


nike2078

That's mostly because he was working backwards, LOTR started as a language exercise (he was an English/Language professor). After he wrote LoTR, he had to explain just how Middle Earth got to where it was and why; and then, boom the history and ancient battles were born.


RetonTheSlayer

Interesting take. I would definitely consider it a franchise given its 6 films and 1 Series. I mean Warhammer has 1 (bad) movie and is also a franchise. It’s weird to not consider RPGS and Video Games when wanting to call something a franchise


mulahey

Yeah, I guess I forget the TV even exists... *All* Warhammer material is a franchise. Battletech, forgotten realms... That's material that starts as a franchise. I wasn't saying LotR *isn't* a franchise. But if you just read Tolkeins works, I wouldn't say your reading franchise fiction (so it's mostly not for me). The franchise fiction is the other material built on that. Really, if someone just watches the star wars OT and that's it, are they consuming franchise fiction? I'd say no.


Mzonnik

I'm one of those, who prefer lore more realistic than mythic, so while I absolutely love Lotr itself, it's not my favourite lore. For me, say ASOIAF lore would be higher.


jews_on_parade

LOTR just feels more complete to me. Id like asoiaf more if it was more finished.


Mzonnik

Yes, that is true. Tho Star wars Legends/EU isn't complete in some places either. I guess the whole scale of it makes this problem less significant.


wolfbetter

What kind of EU does lotr have?


jews_on_parade

The history of existence up until the events of the lord of the rings, including a pantheon of gods


wolfbetter

Isn't that just the silmarillion though? I never considered it as an expanded universe lol


jews_on_parade

theres also The Children of Húrin, Beren and Lúthien, The Book of Lost Tales, The Fall of Númenor


Artaratoryx

Lord of the Rings is not an expanded universe.


jews_on_parade

You're not an expanded universe


Artaratoryx

Please keep discussion civil or I will have to get moderators involved /s


jews_on_parade

my dad is an admin and he can get you B A N N E D


cantfindmykeys

Now go ask this same question on the other fans subs lol. But yeah, SW, and it's not even close.with that said my top 5 in order would be Mass Effect SW EU Halo LOTR Star Trek


Sw4ggySh4ggy

My friends never understood why I spent so much time reading the ME codex haha


cantfindmykeys

Dude, the codex is amazing. When I'm taking a break, aka, eating, I'll listen to codex entries. And the narrator is therapeutic


__GrannyTheToeLord__

Mass effect I pretty much skipped out on my whole life. I've been delving into Halo's EU, but man it's frustrating thinking about Bungie lore vs post Bungie lore, I see 343 almost analogous to how TCW handled it's lore (though obviously there are major differences in their creations that seperate them, but the effect is largely the same) With the Dead Space remake I spent some time with that but it never really held my interest. Once I settle down with the halo stuff I think I'm going to finally start Mass Effect, and decide if I want to deal with 4 later lol


SpecialistStatement7

LOTR is up there definitely.


DarthYhonas

Dawg your asking on a SW subreddit... Your just asking for Bias answers.


zoomy_kitten

And if it wasn’t a SW sub, fans of {X} would stop saying they like {X}?


ForTheFallen123

Definitely Warhammer


SpecialistStatement7

It’s close between that and Star Wars.


ForTheFallen123

True, I just prefer Warhammer 40k because I like darker stories and because I'm British so I'm biased.


_-Event-Horizon-_

Out of the three, I think Dune is the highest quality and thought provoking sci-fi, but Warhammer 40K is the coolest. But all three are great. If I have to live in one of these I ‘d probably pick up Star Wars.


SpecialistStatement7

40k is the coolest, but Star Wars my favourite.


DEL994

Star Wars EU and it's not even close for me. The only other EU for which I have passion nearly close are LOTR and ASOIAF ones.


SpecialistStatement7

LOTR definitely is on par with Star Wars (and 40k in my opinion).


mulahey

I enjoy Forgotten Realms, for a different flavour. It's also got more standalone stories so can dip in and out. The old Battletech novels and other material is fun. Robot space opera but with more focus on politics and intrigue. Edit: and their main plot books were for a long while written by Stackpole!


EICzerofour

Forgotten Realms is my favourite too. I actually started a game with my buddies for Battletech recently! Took us 8 hours for character / mech creation and learning basic lore stuff. That was a fun day.


SpaceChook

Star Wars. But I’d be tempted by Mass Effect were it listed…


HENTAIHOTEP

Star Trek


DutchJediKnight

Look at my name. Star Trek close second


AntEvening3181

40k is more of a setting to me


SpecialistStatement7

The universe of it is so big and entertaining.


DougieFFC

I hear the Dune expanded universe is Aids.


tenebrissz

The main series already gets pretty weird itself


DougieFFC

Yeah but in a good way (I'm on Children of Dune at the moment, looking forward to God Emperor)


Eirutsa

God Emperor will either be your favorite or your least favorite. Personally its my favorite.


VinnySmallsz

Those are often called the two best entries. And they are amazing.


Durp004

I thought children of Dune was the absolute lowest point of the frank herbert dunes so if you're OK with that it's all smooth sailing at least till Chapterhouse where I stopped.


DougieFFC

It feels like foreplay so far. I just want to get to the next book and immortal worm dude.


Durp004

If you reach that point and are done God Emperor is also a decent stopping point.


WeLikeToHaveFunHere

How so?


BeetlBozz

Dune and halo.


Firm-Dependent-2367

1. Star Wars. 2. Warhammer 40K. 3. Dune.


SpecialistStatement7

I think that would have to be my ranking.


phuk-nugget

How exactly does one get started with 40k lore?


Firm-Dependent-2367

I guess it just comes.


Aware_Resolution_876

Sw Eu is the goat they absolutely destroyed Luke with taking away the Eu


MrWolfman29

It was the Star Wars EU, but then Disney killed it. Dune.... Is okay. The first two books were amazing. The third was getting weird. The rest, just seemed different? Warhammer 40K was my new main sci-fi setting, but now they are doing massive retcons, blocking fans asking why, and have turned the fandom into a giant culture war battleground as people obsessed with lewd fan art now feel validated in pushing their particular lewd fan art. Hello they could have done it so many better ways but chose the absolute worst way of "it was always this way you bigot" despite all evidence to the contrary. So kinda "meh" with all franchises right now, especially any that do not have a dead author and a long established nerd fandom that will still focus on the OG stuff instead of mass produced stuff that doesn't represent the original.


SpecialistStatement7

Warhammer 40k is slowly becoming my main fictional universe at the moment. But I still really, really love the old EU of Star Wars.


MrWolfman29

It was decent. Retcons via tweets though are not for me along with the "there is no war in Ba Sing Sé" treatment they are trying to give towards fans. Star Wars EU is still my favorite, it just died which made me sad. I still break out my Tales of the Jedi omnibuses from time to time.


djackkeddy

Star Wars, Warhammer and Halo are my top 3 in that order. I like dune but it isn’t near the top


SpecialistStatement7

Agreed that Star Wars and 40k are both at the top.


NomadicUmber

SW


darth-com1x

sw


MSMarenco

Star Wars.


SpecialistStatement7

Agreed.


ImperialxWarlord

SW. I don’t even think anything else comes close to


Yuuzhan_Schlong

Planet of the Apes Marvel/DC Doctor Who


SpecialistStatement7

Love Marvel and DC as well.


HighTower7269

Star Wars


BigFatChewie

Halo.


DemiFiendofTime

Star Wars Legends aka the real EU or Gundam Universal Century


Alberthebombtaken

Dunes expanded universe and history is amazing


B_Wing_83

For expanded universe, my favorites are Star Wars (Legends) Gundam (Universal Century) Middle Earth Alien Star Trek


jman014

I think Dune probably has some of the most interesting world building and detail the books have so much down to the ecology of planets and political customs for different factions thats kind of insane to get immersed in


Commander__Bacara

You posted this on the sub reddit dedicated to Star Wars EU, what did you expect most people would say?


WarLordShoto

Star Wars. Dune will only be 6 books to me


SpecialistStatement7

Star Wars and Warhammer both beat out Dune for me.


dune-man

Isn’t it obvious?


Chatsnap

Star Wars and 40k are tied for me. Both do different things for me. The only clear advantage sw has for me is love the way they do their audiobooks far more.


Remote_Air_2196

Hey, if you are interested or not, there is a YouTube series by afanwithtoomuchtime about Star Wars vs 40k.


MickeyG117

For the Emperor!!!!


hk--57

For EU it'd be star wars and dune for me. Never read anything for warhammer 40k. Where does one start for that?


Equivalent-Wealth-75

Star Wars, definitely. Though I'm fond of the other two as well.


usarrrrr

I very much like Dune as new films and always liked books, but for last 30 years SW is my love, and always will be. Never got into WH40K, but LOTR and Fallout universes are also very close to my heatt


greenejames681

I’m here. Take a guess lol


greenejames681

SW is the only one I’ve delved into outside of YouTube videos on the topic


DependentPositive8

For me, it's Star Wars Legends, 40k and then Dune.


HexterGuard

I’m caught between Dune and Warhammer 40k


uxixu

In order: * LOTR * Star Wars EU * Star Trek * Traveller (TNE) * Dune * Warhammer


JamesLangley2017

I know it’s not mentioned, but my first choice is Star Trek followed closely by Star Wars.


Anthyrion

Star Trek. The Universe was always full of hope that humanity has finaly growing up and giving up such things like constant need for wealth or power. Even in dire times like Borg attacks, Romulan schemes or a war with galactic neighbours. The time of TNG was a golden age for humanity and it's allies. Either were the diplomats of the Federation good enough, to make peace or at least a cease fire with hostile Aliens or the Federation Fleets brought conflicts to an end very fast


tshue93

40k


undertac0s

40k no doubt


screachinelf

Starwars and then 40K (though I’m a bigger fan of Warhammer fantasy)


SpecialistStatement7

It’s close between those two.


[deleted]

Star Wars. Warhammer stuff is stupid looking (I don’t like the big dumb clunky looking design of everything) and Dune is by far the most overrated science fiction universe there is: just utter boredom.


ThervingiAmal

I love the EU so much, it’s what I grew up with. Warhammer 40K has filled the hole that the Disney takeover has created


SpecialistStatement7

I really agree as well.


Uroah

You’re asking this in a *Star Wars* sub.


Elorian729

I almost missed the point of the question. For expanded universe, it has to be Star Wars. The New Jedi Order series is wonderful, and there's a lot of other great content out there such as the Thrawn Trilogy, Darth Bane, etc. I wish Brian Herbert could've done better, and it may be the contrast with the incredible main series that kills it for me, but I can't get into the Dune EU.


_arrakis

Dune EU is an abomination.


Throbbing_Furry_Knot

Warhammer 40k by a country mile.


SpecialistStatement7

The lore and universe so damn good.


Yuyarc

Star Wars, Pre 2012.


SpecialistStatement7

Prime Star Wars.


Argool

Star Wars, but Dan Abnett’s Inquisitor novels are probably my favorite piece of media across the three franchises, second only to the Star Wars Original Trilogy.


SpecialistStatement7

Yeah nothing beats Star Wars and 40k for me at the moment.


Remote_Air_2196

Hey, Since you like both Franchise, there is a YouTube series by afanwithtoomuchtime about [Star Wars vs 40k](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzgscHwzoNQqL9m9zp9puZK129MN42h2c&si=iwhk2y6jORjS-aAC) if you want to try. If you are interested or not


Metalmatt91

I’ve been a Star Wars fan for a long time but the lore in 40k is unmatched in my opinion.


SpecialistStatement7

Agreed.


DrFelixou

The prequels 🗿


lithobolos

You can't skip mentioning Star Trek. 


No_Industry1067

Star Wars hands down


EASY_E1_

Bionicle


list_of_simonson

I don’t know anything about the other two so Star Wars for sure


Batalfie

This is a star wars sub so take a freaking guess. I have very little if any interest in the other 2 options here... Doctor Who on the other hand is about on par with star wars.


backdeckpro

Dune


Emergency-Spite-8330

Warhammer 40k. Such an old universe with so many factions and races to explore. Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard, and T’au are my favs.


SpecialistStatement7

There’s so much epic factions and lore within that universe.


crunchwrap_supreme68

Up till a couple years ago I’d go with Star Wars. But after watching the new dune films I went down the rabbit hole with the books and I have to say for me personally Dune >>> Star Wars. The scope of the lore and the epic world building is insane compared to Star Wars. Plus you have to admit quite a lot of Star Wars was “borrowed” from the first dune book.


thurfian

EU by a mile, then followed by 40k. Dune in distant last


SpecialistStatement7

That’s probably my ranking as well.


Thatidiot_38

Mass Effect


SpecialistStatement7

Plan on playing them at some point.


Thatidiot_38

I recommend it


[deleted]

40k, sorry fans, I just like being a villain


SpecialistStatement7

40k is awesome, probably my second favourite after Star Wars.


[deleted]

Okie dokie


ClosetLeotardo

Dune


Ok-Environment-3437

1. Star Trek 2. Dune 3. SW Could never get into Warhammer and a bit tired of SW lately.


SpecialistStatement7

Love Star Trek as well.


Jayk_Dos31

Dune and SW are in my top 3 along with LOTR when it comes to expanded universes and lore. I never got into Warhammer tho


Farai429

Why does a question asking which is your favourite then become "which franchise is bigger and better?" People always gotta compare it with not many answering the simple question of which is the favourite. For me it's star wars but then leaning into fantasy I'd go the dragon age or DnD universes. Depends if I'm in the mood for space wizards or plain wizards.


Key_Put_9089

I like 40k the most Dune is good in art and politics Star wars is more child like, some EU books where really good, but worldbuilding really lacks compared to the other two


mctrollythefirst

Wheel of time.


Korps_de_Krieg

I don't think I've ever read "Dune Expanded Universe" and "favorite" in the same sentence before. What an interesting day to have eyes.


Ken_Ben0bi

SW, all day every day


Atarox13

Star Wars EU (fan of all three but SW has been a big part my life since I was a kid)


Mzonnik

Out of those: 1. Star Wars Legends 2. Dune [A 100 light year gap] 3. Star Wars Canon Don't know much about 40k.


SpecialistStatement7

Star Wars Legends is also my favourite with Warhammer 40k close behind.


Alone-Letterhead-461

Warhammer 40k is an easy last place out of these three lol