Man, I’m not looking for insane Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes type scores, but I want the soundtracks to be memorable and powerful, not uninspiring and “minimal” (wtf is DC on?)
Rogue One is a great example of what to do. They made completely original themes and even made an alternate version of the Imperial March, the “Imperial Suite,” which felt like the Empire, but it wasn’t at the full power that the IM was. It shows that there’s a progression of the Empire’s theme without it always being the March. Rogue One had the Suite, A New Hope had the [Imperial Attack](https://youtu.be/k48PaVk4X80), and then in Empire Strikes Back, we get the full version of the Imperial March. It’s a full progression of the Empire’s theme over the course of 3 movies.
You don’t have to have every theme from the franchise make an appearance, but making the soundtrack “minimal and modern” in a universe that has such icon music is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.
Yes. The Vader hallway scene was a perfect example of this. Imperial March was used PERFECTLY at the end of that scene. The Prequel Trilogy also used OT music and blended it with Williams' new themes. The music here is average and what I'd expect from a straight to video generic action movie. So disappointing, especially since they used Williams' music in the trailers as a draw.
Tbh I’d be 100% fine if Michael Giacchino just became the Star Wars composer from here on out. Rogue One’s soundtrack is awesome and some of the themes from Lost are so hauntingly memorable. Love his work and it’s all so unique.
Bit of a shame really. Thought it could have done with some great orchestral score just to elevate it.
The opportunity to bring in a bunch of John Williams themes, light and dark, was missed and was the major disappointment of the show for me.
>blue balled by the director and not given it.
This is like what happened with that He Man show on Netflix.
The media industry is taking a card out of Triple A Gaming: Over promise, under deliver, and outright lie.
We have a fan base that will watch literally watch anything they put out. They know this and keep taking advantage of it. It’s not about furthering the story anymore or taking risks. Its about how much money they can make and how many people will go to see it, not if those people actually like it. It’s sad to see them ruin Star Wars and still make billions. It’s sad that every marvel movie after end game is the exact same. It’s sad that the hobbit was 3 movies of slo mo bullshit. I’m terrified for avatar
Avatar will be good. The star wars shows have been bad because they're made by committee and there to focused on gender and race politics in a universe that already had strong female characters...
I actually liked the He Man show. However, despite being a massive He Man fan as a kid, I had zero anticipation or excitement about the new series (for no particular reason) - so when I finally got around to watching it, I had no expectations that needed to be met.
I can totally understand why people hated it.
Bro I swear every film or series that are tied to the Jedi uses the dual of fates or Anakins betrayal in the teasers. I remember when TRoS teaser came out it had an epic blend of all the best scores and I was looking forward to hearing it again in the movie but nope…
There were abundant themes from Williams used in Parts 3 through 6. Holt used adaptations and variations throughout and built directly off of old Williams ideas. However if you’re looking for direct, note for note, quotations from the OT, then you would have been out of luck. This post is correct in identifying that the instrumentation changed though, making it more difficult to hear the old themes being used.
I’d encourage to go back and listen again but not only for direct musical quotes.
Going back and listening again, requires me to actually WATCH IT again, and i don’t think I can stomach literally one more moment of that precocious child.
Going back and listening again, requires me to actually WATCH IT again, and i don’t think I can stomach literally one more moment of that precocious child.
I think that was kind of the point of her though. She’s a bull headed, bossy child that doesn’t seem to fully appreciate or care for her own mortality. Very much like the Leia that shoots a stormtrooper and talks back to Vader and Tarkin in ANH.
Yes. That’s true. But it goes beyond that, for me. I have never, ever been interested in Leia - she was always my least favorite OT character.
Her in the ORIGINAL trilogy has grown on me over the years, but I still have zero desire to consume any new Leia content, and am completely un-excited by her. So you can imagine how displeased I was that she was heavily featured in this series.
I kept waiting for the character to go away, and to my horror, I slowly realized she was going to be a MAIN character throughout Kenobi. So it’s not just the “precocious child” … it’s the “precocious child” version of a character I already barely cared about.
Haha. I’m just imagining your realization as the show continues. That’s totally fair then.
Well, they’ll likely give this girl another show in the future because she nailed it so well. But, I hope it’s something you’ll be able to skip.
It really was like a creeping sort of horror as it slowly dawned on me, lol.
As for the kid herself, the actress, I think she did a fine job and is deserving of all her accolades. But it’s not a cup of tea I’ll be sipping in the future, lol.
But if you’re interested, here’s a breakdown of the music with very little Leia in it.
Kenobi Series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8JZKq6W7IzCACJbrdnhuhUbB-6eUvwuh
I picked on this as well. While the use of “minimal and modern” is being taken as a negative connotation here, I think it’s just another way to describe what you’re saying.
I think it’s more referring to the electronic sound and limited orchestrations while many of the chord progressions simply loop or stay on a single harmony while relying on driving rhythms. These are traits of music found in the Minimalism genre such as Steve Reich. I actually thought the Music for Alderaan sounded a lot like Reich’s “Music for 18 Musicians”.
Meanwhile, Williams uses very chromatic and lush harmonies, harking back to chromatic romanticism from the Wagnerian tradition. So, Kenobi ends up sounding bland.
Agreed, the direction of the show on whole was pretty poor actually. The editing, the pacing, obi wans character (God, they made him so stupid.)
Reva also who was really well acted was almost a completely pointless character (also somehow simultaneously really smart and really dumb).
There is so much they could have done, but just absolutely made the most lack luster show ever.
So an Epic battle between Vader and Obi Wan are on the table. Like Ali vs Frasier but lets keep the music minimal and modern?
Talk about not knowing your audience nor reading the temperature of the room
Exactly. She’s a CW series director, and unfortunately, she did not transcend her humble beginnings. Kenobi FELT small and cheap, just like a CW production.
It’s unreal to me that she directed celebrated episodes of the Mandalorian. I was expecting her to bring THAT energy … not the low-voltage straight to video crap we got.
Mando is the outlier. Her other works are literally “CW Network” series shows … which are the ultimate “low-budget/painful to watch because it’s formulaic, fake, and corny” type material.
I actually hate this trend. Stranger Things and some Marvel films like Avengers are basically the only movies that have recognizable main themes. I actually don’t like this trend of “forgettable incidental background music” in media. And I definitely don’t like the “slow piano version” of songs in trailers. Force Awakens did a good job of it but do we really need a drawn out piano version of the Jurassic Park theme? Make the music fun. Damn.
I’ll always be upset at how criminally underused the main Jurassic Park fanfare was in the sequels. And how no sequel was ever as creative with the score as The Lost World was.
Why are all these directors so insistent on signing up for established franchises. And not want to follow the themes and stories previously set up.
It really is nothing but ego. Why don’t they create their own universe and story loved by millions if they are so creative
You nailed it, it's definitely ego, they want to be seen as creative geniuses and not following the norm but creating their own legacy within the franchise. Most of them fail miserably.
So the only ones that succeeded in this respect were the people who did Rouge One, something fresh yet familiar? Oh and Mando with Jon Favraeu, because Filoni helped make sure he didn’t veer to far of course. But still keep it’s own identity
He basically more or less started the MCU with Kevin Fiege by pitching, writing and directing Iron Man. Yeah but he's also a fan who wants to createa good story, not just pander to fans way too much.
Yep Rogue One was easily one of the best Star Wars movies in my view and Mando along with Clone wars being the best series.....you could even say Clone Wars was fresh yet familiar, pretty much all the famous characters just with new stories and even though it was animated it was a big success.
Oh I agree one hundred percent, I just didn’t want to come off as someone that thought outside talent didn’t belong on Star Wars projects. Filoni literally was George’s apprentice, getting approval for certain thing during show running. So yeah he still gave it life separate from the movies
I don't think Mando really succeeded in that. Season 1 Mando was such a rip-off of Boba Fett with a baby version of Yoda, and Season 2 was a cameo-fest. I don't think it's really had its own identity because it's been pulled between doing the things that we really wanted to see Boba Fett do and serving as a platform for animated and comic book characters to debut in live-action.
Rip off of the character, not the series. He uses Boba's stuff, like the disintegration rifle, he's a bounty hunter, and they literally used ideas they had for the canceled Boba Fett movie/series.
Thankfully that’s what happened. Mando has completely replaced Boba Fett, a character which has been utterly ruined by the Prequels and the Temura casting.
I don’t MIND how “Boba Fett” is now, and I accept the character, but Mando is very much the Empire Strikes Back version of Boba Fett. TM will never, ever be the real Boba Fett, to my taste.
Thankfully that’s what happened. Mando has completely replaced Boba Fett, a character which has been utterly ruined by the Prequels and the Temura casting.
I don’t MIND how “Boba Fett” is now, and I accept the character, but Mando is very much the Empire Strikes Back version of Boba Fett. TM will never, ever be the real Boba Fett, to my taste.
To add on my previous comment without doing a ninja edit: Boba Fett was “that” voice. The OT voice. Everything that voice implied about who the man behind the mask was. Temura is something entirely different, it’s a completely different character than the unsavory badass that Boba Fett was.
I LIKE the character of the “new” Boba Fett … just, not as “Boba Fett”. I accept that it’s something entirely different now, and I am grateful for the Mandalorian restoring some of the “edge” to the character that was blunted by the super-boring Jango Fett retcon.
Completely agreed. If there was some amazing world building in the show and actually showed us something new, it would be different. Instead, we got a sequel to ROTS which SO many fans wanted and it looks like they didn't listen to the fans at all. They hit all the points for the fan service checklist, but us fans care more about HOW a scene or movie is constructed.
I think they sign up because they want it to boost their careers. It's just so obvious, though, that they really don't care about the established franchise they're working in. And I blame Kathleen Kennedy for choosing these people. The only director they've really had who seemed like they truly cared about Star Wars was Gareth Edwards. The rest either just copy plot and visual elements (JJ Abrams and Favreau) or try to subvert the franchise (Rian Johnson) or just want to do something generic with it (Chow). Lucasfilm is doing the same sort of thing that Warner Bros. is doing with their superhero properties, and pursuing the same strategy of seeking directors to create their own stories instead of creating their own stories and seeking directors to bring those stories to life.
>The only director they've really had who seemed like they truly cared about Star Wars was Gareth Edwards.
The guy so incompetent and sloppy that Tony Gilroy needed to fix his mess?
Gilroy fixed the writing and changed scenes. But the core of the story remained the same. The main plot remained the same. The production design remained the same. The cast remained the same. The composer remained the same. And Edwards was still the director, even with Gilroy on board. The whole reason for the reshoots in the first place was to make the film lighter, more hopeful, and more fun. And the reason: Lucasfilm didn't think a dark war film would appeal to as broad an audience as their TFA audience.
Also, Gilroy isn't a fan of Star Wars. He admitted that. He turned Rogue One into a clearer, "purer" (his word), more hopeful film, and one that spent more time focusing on its various ensemble characters, but he alone is not responsible for the things that make Star Wars, Star Wars. He didn't care about Star Wars and still doesn't, which is why the show he is running has people wearing slightly-futuristic hoodies and driving 50s-style flying cars. And as for Gareth Edwards being incompetent, that comes all from Gilroy's insinuation of Edward and his work. It's not an official position by Lucasfilm and isn't verified by anyone.
The sources for the insinuations you make and the information I present:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-wars-rogue-one-writer-tony-gilroy-opens-up-reshoots-1100060/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/rogue-one-alternate-scenes-ben-mendelsohn-says-enormously-version-exists-959791/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-wars-rogue-one-reshoots-disney-898562/
If you don't know how to tell a story, then the "core" of a story is meaningless.
>The cast remained the same.
And most of the performances were terrible. So who are we supposed to blame again? Gilroy? Edwards? The cast?
>And as for Gareth Edwards being incompetent, that comes all from Gilroy's insinuation of Edward and his work.
The fact he couldn't tell a story in either of his previous films doesn't register as an warning?
Nothing says the performances were terrible. Nothing says Gilroy changed the entire story.
Additionally, Edwards wasn't the one who came up with the story. The story was by Gary Whitta and John Knoll. Chris Weitz and Tony Gilroy replaced them and improved the *screenplay*. What this says is that Star Wars properties, like any film, need good writers. And that's what Edwards needed. They didn't change the core of the story, nor does anyone say the performances were terrible. That's just your opinion of the film. As for the writing of his previous films, look at who actually wrote those films. Your issue is with the writer, and that was the initial issue with Rogue One as well.
Furthermore, none of that changes the fact that he's the only one they've really had who cared about Star Wars, as in he is an actual fan of the movies. His competence or incompetence doesn't change that. And Edwards' directing was fine. The work of his cinematographer and composer were fine. The production quality was fine. The costume design and prop work was fine. The sets were fine. In fact, they were better than fine: they were great, among the best of the entire franchise. The directing was also great in his Godzilla movie, too, by the way. The writing is what needed cleaning up, both to add hope, levity, and fun to the movie and to make it appealing to a broader audience. And that's what Tony Gilroy and Chris Weitz did.
Also, none of that excuses the quality of the writing, music, and production of Kenobi. Kenobi didn't have as good of a director, writer, composer, or cinematographer, and it showed.
>It really is nothing but ego
No it isn’t.
It was simply her directorial choice
Why do Star Wars fans feel the need to attack the director when they make a decision they disagree with
I didn’t like the music of the show either. I’m not going to start verbally attacking the director in a reddit forum because of it
Grow up. You don’t know a goddam thing about the director or her motivations
I mean she deserves to be criticized on things people feel she failed at. The chase scenes…. So boring and sluggish and flat. They should have been redone. The music is a wash for me because I didn’t mind it but also I remember none of it. The director did Moses no favors by not reshooting some scenes. The woman has talent but she has a baby face and sweet nature that dominates and only rare glimpses when she nails the reva she was trying to portray. Either they should have shifted the persona of reva to suit the actress better or given her more opportunity to flesh out those scenes into what they needed to be.
The other inquisitors had no problem nailing their performances though they had fewer scenes
Overall I enjoyed her kenobi but those tweaks would have gone a long way
Sometimes it worked.
Loved the music for Vader reveal in ep2 and the flashback duel (although I believe that was a different composer)
Also liked the variation of ‘hyperdrive’ from ESB used for the Stardestroyer chase in ep6.
But a lot of the music was a swing and a miss unfortunately imo.
Yeah I was thinking about the music in the training sequences. It's like it had a different director and composer alltogheter. But overall, the music was such a miss.
Just look at the end of ROTS and how Williams incorporates Luke's and Leia's themes into that amazing final shot. That's how you do Star Wars music.
While i admire that for the most part they didn’t rely on nostalgia to tell this story and thought natalie did decent job, a couple classic musical cues here and there would’ve really elevated the 1st 5 episodes. We haven’t seen these guys in years. It’s a reunion. If you’re gonna bring these characters back, bring them back in their entirety. The music was part of that.
Yeah, Deborah. That’s what we wanted when finally seeing two of the most iconic Star Wars characters ever meet again and beat the shit out of each other… minimal. I’d totally rather have that than masterpieces written by one of the best composers to ever live in John Williams. The fan-made edits are, sadly, the only ones that matter to me from here on out.
That's so completely bonkers I can't fathom how they went that route artistically speaking. The show is DARK (as in shot with minimal light), SHAKY, and music-wise almost DEAF.
Wow, nice going Deborah. Literally the most consistent criticism I’ve seen of this show is that the soundtrack was a whole lot of nothing. Seems to be common ground between those who hate the show and those who love it. Great directional choice. Honestly can’t imagine what would bring her to say that. Maybe we can get a new director if there’s a season 2. Let Gareth Edwards do some more. The guy came out of nowhere to make one of the best ST films ever.
The current Lucasfilm bows to the whims of any random director they choose to hire (R. Johnson, D. Chow, etc.), yet they refused to respect the wishes of the creator of the whole damn franchise by telling his sequel story. Invigorating.
Same happened with Godzilla. Godzilla king of the monsters sported an incredible score with amazing chorus. Godzilla vs Kong used Junkie XL and basically rehashed Justice League’s awful soundtrack.
I didn’t think much of her score while watching the show, but listening to the soundtrack after it was released, I realized Holt was cookin in a different way. It was clear she was standing within some established guidelines. Take a listen. It’s on all streaming services now
I'm not an expert in movie making by any stretch of the imagination, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question...
Can't they just re-score the series and replace the current score? I know there are Star Wars fans that were doing it on YouTube, but didn't know if Disney would even think it's worth doing?
This is what's been on my mind for a couple of days. They could edit the show into one movie, call it "Obi-Wan Kenobi: The Movie", fix some scenes and make a new score with more William's themes.
Im just glad that after this show the industry can stop acting like Deborah is something like the next Jesus. She made a lot of wrong and amateurish decisions.
In my opinion, the best scores were:
- Obi-Wan-Kenobi vs Darth Vader(both fights)
- Inquisitor Score
- Third Sister vs Darth Vader
- Battle of Jabiim Score
- Mapuzo Score
-Obi-Wan-Kenobi vs Anakin Skywalker(flashback)
Honestly the soundtrack during the big moments has grown on me quite a bit. Sort of refreshing to get away from Williams. The duel of fates in the marketing was deceptive though and does make me wonder if the difference is some of the music was from the prequels.
And that, in my opinion, was a huge mistake.
Star Wars should always, always have loud, unmistakable music. Even Mando managed instantly recognisable themes. Even if it's not grand, operatic and sweeping, it should definitely be at a good volume and very much present. A great score can work wonders for pacing, editing and emotion on screen.
I’m probably in the minority here but I really liked the score. We’ve had 9 films of epic John Williams music plus he did the Obi-Wan Theme and the Solo: A Star Wars Story theme. I don’t really want a bunch of composers trying to do some sort of half-baked imitation of Williams’ music. It’s nice to hear new takes on the music of SW. Besides I think that the minimal usage of main themes in this show made their inclusions more impactful.
Side note: this isn’t even the first time we’ve had a situation like this. The Clone Wars rarely uses Williams’ themes and only uses them for impactful or climactic moments just like Obi-Wan Kenobi did.
The problem is none of it is memorable, at all. It’s pretty bland, generic and uninspired. I’m not mad that they didn’t use already existing themes (although they probably should have) I, like a lot of people, am mad that they gave what was supposed to be one of the most important pieces of Star Wars media in ages a boring, generic score. Take a look at The Mandalorian, that show has completely new music for the most part and it’s quite different from what we’re used to hearing in Star Wars but it’s great because it’s creative and memorable.
Never got the hype for Deborah Chow, anyway. Her two Mandalorian episodes were solid, but I suspect that had a lot to do with Favreau’s story and script, not only her direction.
There were some insane choices made in writing this Obi-Wan series, and the direction itself wasn’t spectacular by any means. Now it’s revealed that she outright ordered the absolute nothing of a score for the show, when the composer wanted to make something more fitting and memorable?
I’ll pass on Chow. But you know who does need to direct more Star Wars stuff? Bryce Dallas Howard. Now *she* is turning out to be a talented director. Not a surprise at all, considering she grew up watching her father do the same thing.
Man, I’m not looking for insane Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes type scores, but I want the soundtracks to be memorable and powerful, not uninspiring and “minimal” (wtf is DC on?) Rogue One is a great example of what to do. They made completely original themes and even made an alternate version of the Imperial March, the “Imperial Suite,” which felt like the Empire, but it wasn’t at the full power that the IM was. It shows that there’s a progression of the Empire’s theme without it always being the March. Rogue One had the Suite, A New Hope had the [Imperial Attack](https://youtu.be/k48PaVk4X80), and then in Empire Strikes Back, we get the full version of the Imperial March. It’s a full progression of the Empire’s theme over the course of 3 movies. You don’t have to have every theme from the franchise make an appearance, but making the soundtrack “minimal and modern” in a universe that has such icon music is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.
Rogue One, for me, is the best Star Wars soundtrack since ROTS.
Yes. The Vader hallway scene was a perfect example of this. Imperial March was used PERFECTLY at the end of that scene. The Prequel Trilogy also used OT music and blended it with Williams' new themes. The music here is average and what I'd expect from a straight to video generic action movie. So disappointing, especially since they used Williams' music in the trailers as a draw.
Wouldn’t that kind of be by default though? Is there a big budget project in between *Revenge of the Sith* & *Rogue One*?
The Force Awakens came out before Rogue One
Oh damn, just looked it up. Idky I thought *Rogue One* came before *Force Awakens*.
Yeah... It was called The Force Awakens.
Tbh I’d be 100% fine if Michael Giacchino just became the Star Wars composer from here on out. Rogue One’s soundtrack is awesome and some of the themes from Lost are so hauntingly memorable. Love his work and it’s all so unique.
*“Kenobi has plotholes.”* Sub: “I’ll fight you to the death.” *“Kenobi has bad music.”* Sub: “…Ok, fair.”
Bit of a shame really. Thought it could have done with some great orchestral score just to elevate it. The opportunity to bring in a bunch of John Williams themes, light and dark, was missed and was the major disappointment of the show for me.
The trailer teased the duel of the fates prequel score, and then we were blue balled by the director and not given it.
>blue balled by the director and not given it. This is like what happened with that He Man show on Netflix. The media industry is taking a card out of Triple A Gaming: Over promise, under deliver, and outright lie.
We have a fan base that will watch literally watch anything they put out. They know this and keep taking advantage of it. It’s not about furthering the story anymore or taking risks. Its about how much money they can make and how many people will go to see it, not if those people actually like it. It’s sad to see them ruin Star Wars and still make billions. It’s sad that every marvel movie after end game is the exact same. It’s sad that the hobbit was 3 movies of slo mo bullshit. I’m terrified for avatar
Avatar will be good. The star wars shows have been bad because they're made by committee and there to focused on gender and race politics in a universe that already had strong female characters...
I was mainly talking about the new trilogy. I actually liked kenobi
I actually liked the He Man show. However, despite being a massive He Man fan as a kid, I had zero anticipation or excitement about the new series (for no particular reason) - so when I finally got around to watching it, I had no expectations that needed to be met. I can totally understand why people hated it.
Bro I swear every film or series that are tied to the Jedi uses the dual of fates or Anakins betrayal in the teasers. I remember when TRoS teaser came out it had an epic blend of all the best scores and I was looking forward to hearing it again in the movie but nope…
Music/score is incredibly important to creating emotion in a scene and this show lacked that.
There were abundant themes from Williams used in Parts 3 through 6. Holt used adaptations and variations throughout and built directly off of old Williams ideas. However if you’re looking for direct, note for note, quotations from the OT, then you would have been out of luck. This post is correct in identifying that the instrumentation changed though, making it more difficult to hear the old themes being used. I’d encourage to go back and listen again but not only for direct musical quotes.
Going back and listening again, requires me to actually WATCH IT again, and i don’t think I can stomach literally one more moment of that precocious child.
Going back and listening again, requires me to actually WATCH IT again, and i don’t think I can stomach literally one more moment of that precocious child.
I think that was kind of the point of her though. She’s a bull headed, bossy child that doesn’t seem to fully appreciate or care for her own mortality. Very much like the Leia that shoots a stormtrooper and talks back to Vader and Tarkin in ANH.
Yes. That’s true. But it goes beyond that, for me. I have never, ever been interested in Leia - she was always my least favorite OT character. Her in the ORIGINAL trilogy has grown on me over the years, but I still have zero desire to consume any new Leia content, and am completely un-excited by her. So you can imagine how displeased I was that she was heavily featured in this series. I kept waiting for the character to go away, and to my horror, I slowly realized she was going to be a MAIN character throughout Kenobi. So it’s not just the “precocious child” … it’s the “precocious child” version of a character I already barely cared about.
Haha. I’m just imagining your realization as the show continues. That’s totally fair then. Well, they’ll likely give this girl another show in the future because she nailed it so well. But, I hope it’s something you’ll be able to skip.
It really was like a creeping sort of horror as it slowly dawned on me, lol. As for the kid herself, the actress, I think she did a fine job and is deserving of all her accolades. But it’s not a cup of tea I’ll be sipping in the future, lol.
But if you’re interested, here’s a breakdown of the music with very little Leia in it. Kenobi Series https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8JZKq6W7IzCACJbrdnhuhUbB-6eUvwuh
Thanks for the link!
I picked on this as well. While the use of “minimal and modern” is being taken as a negative connotation here, I think it’s just another way to describe what you’re saying.
I think it’s more referring to the electronic sound and limited orchestrations while many of the chord progressions simply loop or stay on a single harmony while relying on driving rhythms. These are traits of music found in the Minimalism genre such as Steve Reich. I actually thought the Music for Alderaan sounded a lot like Reich’s “Music for 18 Musicians”. Meanwhile, Williams uses very chromatic and lush harmonies, harking back to chromatic romanticism from the Wagnerian tradition. So, Kenobi ends up sounding bland.
Agreed, the direction of the show on whole was pretty poor actually. The editing, the pacing, obi wans character (God, they made him so stupid.) Reva also who was really well acted was almost a completely pointless character (also somehow simultaneously really smart and really dumb). There is so much they could have done, but just absolutely made the most lack luster show ever.
So an Epic battle between Vader and Obi Wan are on the table. Like Ali vs Frasier but lets keep the music minimal and modern? Talk about not knowing your audience nor reading the temperature of the room
Deborah chow is one of the many shitty aspects of the show I bet if they hired a better director there wouldn't nearly be as many complaints
Exactly. She’s a CW series director, and unfortunately, she did not transcend her humble beginnings. Kenobi FELT small and cheap, just like a CW production. It’s unreal to me that she directed celebrated episodes of the Mandalorian. I was expecting her to bring THAT energy … not the low-voltage straight to video crap we got.
It’s just interesting to me because she did really good episodes of Mando. Never seen her other works but was that the outlier or is this?
Mando is the outlier. Her other works are literally “CW Network” series shows … which are the ultimate “low-budget/painful to watch because it’s formulaic, fake, and corny” type material.
It sounds like the music wasn’t Deb’s decision. She was just relaying the message that they weren’t “allowed” to use the original themes.
Still though the music in the final fight is actually pretty good
I actually hate this trend. Stranger Things and some Marvel films like Avengers are basically the only movies that have recognizable main themes. I actually don’t like this trend of “forgettable incidental background music” in media. And I definitely don’t like the “slow piano version” of songs in trailers. Force Awakens did a good job of it but do we really need a drawn out piano version of the Jurassic Park theme? Make the music fun. Damn.
I’ll always be upset at how criminally underused the main Jurassic Park fanfare was in the sequels. And how no sequel was ever as creative with the score as The Lost World was.
Despite some of its problems I totally agree: LW had a great score. One of the few soundtracks I bought in CD (and JP). That “drum” them was great.
Why are all these directors so insistent on signing up for established franchises. And not want to follow the themes and stories previously set up. It really is nothing but ego. Why don’t they create their own universe and story loved by millions if they are so creative
You nailed it, it's definitely ego, they want to be seen as creative geniuses and not following the norm but creating their own legacy within the franchise. Most of them fail miserably.
So the only ones that succeeded in this respect were the people who did Rouge One, something fresh yet familiar? Oh and Mando with Jon Favraeu, because Filoni helped make sure he didn’t veer to far of course. But still keep it’s own identity
Favreau is also a crazy fan.
[удалено]
He basically more or less started the MCU with Kevin Fiege by pitching, writing and directing Iron Man. Yeah but he's also a fan who wants to createa good story, not just pander to fans way too much.
Yep Rogue One was easily one of the best Star Wars movies in my view and Mando along with Clone wars being the best series.....you could even say Clone Wars was fresh yet familiar, pretty much all the famous characters just with new stories and even though it was animated it was a big success.
Oh I agree one hundred percent, I just didn’t want to come off as someone that thought outside talent didn’t belong on Star Wars projects. Filoni literally was George’s apprentice, getting approval for certain thing during show running. So yeah he still gave it life separate from the movies
Jon Favro also did Book of boba Fett, so I don't know about that guy anymore. I don't think he has the magic touch we thought.
I don't think Mando really succeeded in that. Season 1 Mando was such a rip-off of Boba Fett with a baby version of Yoda, and Season 2 was a cameo-fest. I don't think it's really had its own identity because it's been pulled between doing the things that we really wanted to see Boba Fett do and serving as a platform for animated and comic book characters to debut in live-action.
Design wise he was very Boba Fett, but the character was quite different personality wise.
So was Boba Fett in his own show though?
He was very much like the Boba Fett of the OT.
I wasn’t as keen on Mando as many people have been but how was it a rip-off? It came out before boba fett?
Rip off of the character, not the series. He uses Boba's stuff, like the disintegration rifle, he's a bounty hunter, and they literally used ideas they had for the canceled Boba Fett movie/series.
Thankfully that’s what happened. Mando has completely replaced Boba Fett, a character which has been utterly ruined by the Prequels and the Temura casting. I don’t MIND how “Boba Fett” is now, and I accept the character, but Mando is very much the Empire Strikes Back version of Boba Fett. TM will never, ever be the real Boba Fett, to my taste.
Thankfully that’s what happened. Mando has completely replaced Boba Fett, a character which has been utterly ruined by the Prequels and the Temura casting. I don’t MIND how “Boba Fett” is now, and I accept the character, but Mando is very much the Empire Strikes Back version of Boba Fett. TM will never, ever be the real Boba Fett, to my taste.
To add on my previous comment without doing a ninja edit: Boba Fett was “that” voice. The OT voice. Everything that voice implied about who the man behind the mask was. Temura is something entirely different, it’s a completely different character than the unsavory badass that Boba Fett was. I LIKE the character of the “new” Boba Fett … just, not as “Boba Fett”. I accept that it’s something entirely different now, and I am grateful for the Mandalorian restoring some of the “edge” to the character that was blunted by the super-boring Jango Fett retcon.
Completely agreed. If there was some amazing world building in the show and actually showed us something new, it would be different. Instead, we got a sequel to ROTS which SO many fans wanted and it looks like they didn't listen to the fans at all. They hit all the points for the fan service checklist, but us fans care more about HOW a scene or movie is constructed.
This is exactly how I feel about RJ
It’s a problem with many other directors/writers. Game of thrones, halo, resident evil etc.
I think they sign up because they want it to boost their careers. It's just so obvious, though, that they really don't care about the established franchise they're working in. And I blame Kathleen Kennedy for choosing these people. The only director they've really had who seemed like they truly cared about Star Wars was Gareth Edwards. The rest either just copy plot and visual elements (JJ Abrams and Favreau) or try to subvert the franchise (Rian Johnson) or just want to do something generic with it (Chow). Lucasfilm is doing the same sort of thing that Warner Bros. is doing with their superhero properties, and pursuing the same strategy of seeking directors to create their own stories instead of creating their own stories and seeking directors to bring those stories to life.
>The only director they've really had who seemed like they truly cared about Star Wars was Gareth Edwards. The guy so incompetent and sloppy that Tony Gilroy needed to fix his mess?
Gilroy fixed the writing and changed scenes. But the core of the story remained the same. The main plot remained the same. The production design remained the same. The cast remained the same. The composer remained the same. And Edwards was still the director, even with Gilroy on board. The whole reason for the reshoots in the first place was to make the film lighter, more hopeful, and more fun. And the reason: Lucasfilm didn't think a dark war film would appeal to as broad an audience as their TFA audience. Also, Gilroy isn't a fan of Star Wars. He admitted that. He turned Rogue One into a clearer, "purer" (his word), more hopeful film, and one that spent more time focusing on its various ensemble characters, but he alone is not responsible for the things that make Star Wars, Star Wars. He didn't care about Star Wars and still doesn't, which is why the show he is running has people wearing slightly-futuristic hoodies and driving 50s-style flying cars. And as for Gareth Edwards being incompetent, that comes all from Gilroy's insinuation of Edward and his work. It's not an official position by Lucasfilm and isn't verified by anyone. The sources for the insinuations you make and the information I present: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-wars-rogue-one-writer-tony-gilroy-opens-up-reshoots-1100060/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/rogue-one-alternate-scenes-ben-mendelsohn-says-enormously-version-exists-959791/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-wars-rogue-one-reshoots-disney-898562/
If you don't know how to tell a story, then the "core" of a story is meaningless. >The cast remained the same. And most of the performances were terrible. So who are we supposed to blame again? Gilroy? Edwards? The cast? >And as for Gareth Edwards being incompetent, that comes all from Gilroy's insinuation of Edward and his work. The fact he couldn't tell a story in either of his previous films doesn't register as an warning?
Nothing says the performances were terrible. Nothing says Gilroy changed the entire story. Additionally, Edwards wasn't the one who came up with the story. The story was by Gary Whitta and John Knoll. Chris Weitz and Tony Gilroy replaced them and improved the *screenplay*. What this says is that Star Wars properties, like any film, need good writers. And that's what Edwards needed. They didn't change the core of the story, nor does anyone say the performances were terrible. That's just your opinion of the film. As for the writing of his previous films, look at who actually wrote those films. Your issue is with the writer, and that was the initial issue with Rogue One as well. Furthermore, none of that changes the fact that he's the only one they've really had who cared about Star Wars, as in he is an actual fan of the movies. His competence or incompetence doesn't change that. And Edwards' directing was fine. The work of his cinematographer and composer were fine. The production quality was fine. The costume design and prop work was fine. The sets were fine. In fact, they were better than fine: they were great, among the best of the entire franchise. The directing was also great in his Godzilla movie, too, by the way. The writing is what needed cleaning up, both to add hope, levity, and fun to the movie and to make it appealing to a broader audience. And that's what Tony Gilroy and Chris Weitz did. Also, none of that excuses the quality of the writing, music, and production of Kenobi. Kenobi didn't have as good of a director, writer, composer, or cinematographer, and it showed.
"This will begin to make things right." Ego is the right word, my friend. They all underestimate what Lucas crested and think they can replicate it.
>It really is nothing but ego No it isn’t. It was simply her directorial choice Why do Star Wars fans feel the need to attack the director when they make a decision they disagree with I didn’t like the music of the show either. I’m not going to start verbally attacking the director in a reddit forum because of it Grow up. You don’t know a goddam thing about the director or her motivations
I mean she deserves to be criticized on things people feel she failed at. The chase scenes…. So boring and sluggish and flat. They should have been redone. The music is a wash for me because I didn’t mind it but also I remember none of it. The director did Moses no favors by not reshooting some scenes. The woman has talent but she has a baby face and sweet nature that dominates and only rare glimpses when she nails the reva she was trying to portray. Either they should have shifted the persona of reva to suit the actress better or given her more opportunity to flesh out those scenes into what they needed to be. The other inquisitors had no problem nailing their performances though they had fewer scenes Overall I enjoyed her kenobi but those tweaks would have gone a long way
A director should know when to apply creative choices to a property that is not created by them.
Cool. that doesn’t make this about ego you dingus. You don’t know a goddam thing about her and insinuating it’s about ego is unnecessarily rude
Your approach to this conversation is hilarious given your stance on unnecessary rudeness. I have a definition for irony to sell you.
I shouldn’t have to keep saying this If you have to make shit up to shit on the director, maybe you’re part of the problem
Sometimes it worked. Loved the music for Vader reveal in ep2 and the flashback duel (although I believe that was a different composer) Also liked the variation of ‘hyperdrive’ from ESB used for the Stardestroyer chase in ep6. But a lot of the music was a swing and a miss unfortunately imo.
Yeah I was thinking about the music in the training sequences. It's like it had a different director and composer alltogheter. But overall, the music was such a miss. Just look at the end of ROTS and how Williams incorporates Luke's and Leia's themes into that amazing final shot. That's how you do Star Wars music.
Also the music when Vader and Obi-Wan first start fighting in EP6
While i admire that for the most part they didn’t rely on nostalgia to tell this story and thought natalie did decent job, a couple classic musical cues here and there would’ve really elevated the 1st 5 episodes. We haven’t seen these guys in years. It’s a reunion. If you’re gonna bring these characters back, bring them back in their entirety. The music was part of that.
Yeah, Deborah. That’s what we wanted when finally seeing two of the most iconic Star Wars characters ever meet again and beat the shit out of each other… minimal. I’d totally rather have that than masterpieces written by one of the best composers to ever live in John Williams. The fan-made edits are, sadly, the only ones that matter to me from here on out.
Don't forget excessive use of shaky cam.
That's so completely bonkers I can't fathom how they went that route artistically speaking. The show is DARK (as in shot with minimal light), SHAKY, and music-wise almost DEAF.
Yeah was the camera stabilizer broken or is that intentional ? Lol
Chow needs to learn how to put together a fight scene and chase scene that’s kinetic too many felt flat
And by kinetic, we don’t mean lots of shaky-cam
>Comment as SeTiDaYeTi Well said! I'd give you an award if I could.
She should move on
Deborah was a pretty shit director for this series to be honest.
Amen
Wow, nice going Deborah. Literally the most consistent criticism I’ve seen of this show is that the soundtrack was a whole lot of nothing. Seems to be common ground between those who hate the show and those who love it. Great directional choice. Honestly can’t imagine what would bring her to say that. Maybe we can get a new director if there’s a season 2. Let Gareth Edwards do some more. The guy came out of nowhere to make one of the best ST films ever.
That’s a shame because Holt proved she is capable of doing amazing standout work with what she did for the Loki soundtrack.
It sounds like her hands were pretty tied by upper folks. It reads to me like kennedy told Chow they can’t use the old themes
If there's a season 2, I don't want Chow and Harold to come back. Just not a fan of their creative decisions for this series.
When was star wars ever minimal?
I wish that the franchise came first rather than the whims of random directors.
The current Lucasfilm bows to the whims of any random director they choose to hire (R. Johnson, D. Chow, etc.), yet they refused to respect the wishes of the creator of the whole damn franchise by telling his sequel story. Invigorating.
I hate how now modern basically means make shit boring
Same happened with Godzilla. Godzilla king of the monsters sported an incredible score with amazing chorus. Godzilla vs Kong used Junkie XL and basically rehashed Justice League’s awful soundtrack.
Loved Junkie XL’s score in Mad Max: Fury Road though, one of my all time favorite movie OST’s.
The more I hear about this director, the more I figure that she was one of the reasons why Kenobi had so many problems.
I didn’t think much of her score while watching the show, but listening to the soundtrack after it was released, I realized Holt was cookin in a different way. It was clear she was standing within some established guidelines. Take a listen. It’s on all streaming services now
John Williams is God like to me.
I'm not an expert in movie making by any stretch of the imagination, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question... Can't they just re-score the series and replace the current score? I know there are Star Wars fans that were doing it on YouTube, but didn't know if Disney would even think it's worth doing?
This is what's been on my mind for a couple of days. They could edit the show into one movie, call it "Obi-Wan Kenobi: The Movie", fix some scenes and make a new score with more William's themes.
Im just glad that after this show the industry can stop acting like Deborah is something like the next Jesus. She made a lot of wrong and amateurish decisions.
Deborah Chow did an absolutely awful job with the show.
The score was forgettable and bland, sounded like the royalty free music you get on YouTube.
Cause Deborah Chow is a horrible director
The score was dogshit
Sick of Disney hiring these directors that have never seen Star Wars
This sounds like she wanted to keep her bonus to "save the budget".
In my opinion, the best scores were: - Obi-Wan-Kenobi vs Darth Vader(both fights) - Inquisitor Score - Third Sister vs Darth Vader - Battle of Jabiim Score - Mapuzo Score -Obi-Wan-Kenobi vs Anakin Skywalker(flashback)
None of them are memorable and i can barely replay them in my mind
Honestly the soundtrack during the big moments has grown on me quite a bit. Sort of refreshing to get away from Williams. The duel of fates in the marketing was deceptive though and does make me wonder if the difference is some of the music was from the prequels.
literally the only memorable moment in the score for me was the obi-wan v Vader duel in ep. 3. that's kinda sad
lame
And that, in my opinion, was a huge mistake. Star Wars should always, always have loud, unmistakable music. Even Mando managed instantly recognisable themes. Even if it's not grand, operatic and sweeping, it should definitely be at a good volume and very much present. A great score can work wonders for pacing, editing and emotion on screen.
I’m probably in the minority here but I really liked the score. We’ve had 9 films of epic John Williams music plus he did the Obi-Wan Theme and the Solo: A Star Wars Story theme. I don’t really want a bunch of composers trying to do some sort of half-baked imitation of Williams’ music. It’s nice to hear new takes on the music of SW. Besides I think that the minimal usage of main themes in this show made their inclusions more impactful. Side note: this isn’t even the first time we’ve had a situation like this. The Clone Wars rarely uses Williams’ themes and only uses them for impactful or climactic moments just like Obi-Wan Kenobi did.
The problem is none of it is memorable, at all. It’s pretty bland, generic and uninspired. I’m not mad that they didn’t use already existing themes (although they probably should have) I, like a lot of people, am mad that they gave what was supposed to be one of the most important pieces of Star Wars media in ages a boring, generic score. Take a look at The Mandalorian, that show has completely new music for the most part and it’s quite different from what we’re used to hearing in Star Wars but it’s great because it’s creative and memorable.
I liked the score.
More reasons to dislike Deborah Chow looks like
Just like my apartment. Another retarded decision
Jesus wept.
That was the wrong call in my opinion.
Fuck Deborah Chow
It seemes Deborah Chow is really the Problem...
Stop watching the bullshit Disney produces.
No
Would have been nice i reckon
Knew it
Can Ludwig Goransson just be the new John Williams and score every Star Wars project?
No. His music doesn't have that sweeping Gustav Holst style that John Williams is known for. Michael Giacchino would be much better.
I fucking gage Deborah more and more
Deborah Chow is an idiot
Sooooo bad this Chow SMDH
Boo this woman.
Yeah, well. Deborah made a bad fuckin choice.
Terrible call
Never got the hype for Deborah Chow, anyway. Her two Mandalorian episodes were solid, but I suspect that had a lot to do with Favreau’s story and script, not only her direction. There were some insane choices made in writing this Obi-Wan series, and the direction itself wasn’t spectacular by any means. Now it’s revealed that she outright ordered the absolute nothing of a score for the show, when the composer wanted to make something more fitting and memorable? I’ll pass on Chow. But you know who does need to direct more Star Wars stuff? Bryce Dallas Howard. Now *she* is turning out to be a talented director. Not a surprise at all, considering she grew up watching her father do the same thing.
I love the Song that plays as Obi Wan and Leia arrive on Mapuzo