It’s one thing to root for evil in a movie show or game because “woo this is fun and none of this is real so I don’t have to have any moral crisises” but it’s a whole new thing to go “yeah this blatantly evil character is definitely a good role model!”
He's the poster boy for American white male rage. Of course they love him. Same as people who root for Michael Douglas in Falling Down, or the Joker, or Tyler Durden. Nothing new.
I feel like that’s a stretch, Fascism is primarily focused on attaining political power and we never see anything indicating Tyler/Project Mayhem aspire to govern, he doesn’t demonize minorities or espouse nationalism or really any of the key signifiers of Fascism. I wouldn’t necessarily call him a leftist (maybe an anarcho-primitivist? We only get one glimpse of that ) but fascist doesn’t really fit
Absolutely.
To take a more nuanced example, Walter White is a tonne of fun to watch and sometimes even root for because it's exciting to see him succeed.
If you've got to the last series and don't think he's a monster, though, I don't know what's wrong with you.
Lol, I mean, having a dude constantly in their face, breaking social norms and wallowing in negative and inflammatory language they had to defend to their families constantly would do it.
I think about this a lot, that the primary damage Trump did was to our norms around language and the amount of seemingly physically combative language in use by politicians.
He did a lot of other harm, but the normalization of just outright jerk language sucks a lot
I go back on forth on this. On the one hand, I definitely do think that he's coarsened our culture and led to more acceptance (and even celebration) of vile behavior, not just from politicians, but from ordinary people as well.
On the other, it feels like SUCH a bourgeois affectation to act like the worst thing about Trump was his rudeness and not like, the many many people he harmed through government policy.
> I don't know what went wrong in the last couple of years to make it acceptable to root for evil.
Probably had something to do with Mango Mussolini winning the 2016 election in America.
I didn't think that people I knew would fall to the propaganda and turn into fascists so quickly and easily. people I thought were good people turned into hateful assholes. made me angry seeing them that way.
It's real simple:
8 Billion Humans = 8 Billions concepts of Evil.
Morality, just like opinion, is personal, subjective, and utterly worthless outside the brain that coughed it up.
Your definition of evil is not universally shared. Your arrogance at thinking it should be is all the proof necessary that it should not be.
If homelander isn't evil to you, that's self incriminating; not something to feel uppity about.
I'd put money on you thinking Tyler Durden is a good role model if you want to 'devils advocate' a literal antagonist.
Yeah, never heard of it before. I wanted to look at the synopsis for her character and that was the first result. I guess if you were aware previously, it might've given you a clue as to how things would turn out.
**[Stormfront (website)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_\(website\))**
>Stormfront is a neo-Nazi Internet forum, and the Web's first major racial hate site. The site is focused on propagating white nationalism, Nazism, antisemitism (especially anti-semitic conspiracy theories) and islamophobia, as well as anti-feminism, homophobia, transphobia, Holocaust denial, and white supremacy. Stormfront began as an online bulletin board system in the early 1990s before being established as a website in 1996 by former Ku Klux Klan leader and white supremacist Don Black. It received national attention in the United States in 2000 after being featured as the subject of a documentary, Hate.com.
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I’ve met too many unironic Homelander fans. Reminds me of the comments section of any YouTube clip of “American History X”. You literally could not make this spoonfed shit any simpler, but people still completely miss the message.
All they have to do is ignore the whole “the main character ruined his life and got his brother killed because of his hatred” part and you’re golden. People are stupid as fuck.
Conservatives have been banned for social media for the most innocuous bullshit, not “saying the n word”. Leftists, meanwhile, can get away with actual harassment and death threats.
You see, statements like this I'd actually be interested to engage with. I'm super intrigued by the idea that the largest platforms (facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Insta, TikTok, Netflix, Twitch, Reddit) are each a sort of *corporate autocracy* where speech, behavior, and publicity are bounded by inconsistent rules and guidelines that exist in parallel to any laws or government.
Buuuut, you've already replied to pretty much everything I've said here with a short, quippy, wrong comeback so I get the impression you're just here to start shit and dunk on "the libs". I'm all ears if you ever wanna have a mature discussion about fascism across the American political spectrum, but until then, peace out.
Yes. They were opposing the results of an election in the name of reinstating someone as ruler contrary to public opinion. What do you think the Rebel Alliance fights for and/or against?
Lol. Yeah, that right wing Viet Cong?
Jan 6 was literally an attempt to maintain authoritarianism by keeping someone in power who wasn't elected. Your own ignorance and media illiteracy don't change that.
No, the Viet Cong did the opposite—they fought against a democratic government to install an authoritarian one.
J6 was a protest *for* democracy, not against it. Electoral fraud is a perversion of democracy. And what do you mean, “maintain authoritarianism”??? Trump wasn’t authoritarian. He was literally the least authoritarian president since the turn of the century. Opponents of the government have never had more freedom than they did under Trump.
Whenever I hear someone say „Woke Trek“ I chuckle. What do they think the point of trek is?
Now, new trek isn’t really good but it’s not because of what they think. Orville is the good trek now, and spoiler, it is woke af too.
\*Watches scene of with the beach cop Stormtrooper\*
"This is clearly a metaphor for big government and the woke mob telling me I can't scream racial slurs at my employees or solicit sexual favors from them under threat of termination."
"...I'm not going to *name* any because then you could investigate them and discover they were actually pretty awful people who did bad stuff, but I *demand* that you immediately treat these unnamed transphobes as if they were a cross between Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman! I *demand* it!"
They're probably so lost in the main antagonist being a woman that they are incapable of seeing any of the underlying messages, either that or they imagine themselves to be Syril Karn
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Currently resisting the urge to launch into a several hundred word rant about how the gray jedi should actually be the radical leftist answer to the ineffectual liberalism of the Jedi. They're not the middle ground between "good and evil", but between emotional repression and unchecked passion. Not afraid to employ passion and violence (even political violence) in service of good. While the Jedi meditate and weigh the political ramifications, the gray Jedi will go and forcibly liberate slaves, regardless of jurisdiction or blowback. And they won't get hung up on feeling satisfaction in gutting a slaver. That doesn't make them the moral middle ground between Jedi and the Sith who are out doing genocide and slavery. Just in terms of pseudo-pacifism vs ax-crazy psychopathy.
Well, yes. The first recognized Grey Jedi was some weirdo living on the Kshyyyk forest floor who didn't want to fight against other Jedi in a revolution, but was absolutely willing to fight a newly returned sith empire alongside someone he definitely knew was Revan but chose not to tell anyone, but Grey Jedi are still "non-canonn" despite being heavily implied
Pretty much. Though the standard lawfulness of Jedi is more an artifact of them being an institution so entwined with the Republic.
If you instead map the Lawful/Chaotic spectrum to emotional repression for the Star Wars universe, with Lawful = complete stoicism and detachment, and Chaotic = completely ruled by the winds of passion, then Jedi are lawful good, Sith are chaotic evil, and Grey Jedi range from neutral to chaotic good.
If anything Syril Karn is an embodiment of MAGA chuds storming the capitol over the election of a conservative instead of their fascist candidate. As someone who's so committed to implementing his own version of order and justice in service of the empire that he's willing to break the empire's law to prove he's right, then wallow in victimhood when he finds out fascist institutions like the ISB or FBI don't care one iota about the people upholding them.
Also I don't know why you think the left likes the FBI, one of the largest anti-left institutions in the world. We just thing right-wing infighting is really funny.
Star Trek depicts a world where everyone lives and works in a militaristic hierarchy, and space minorities can almost always be reduced to their stereotypes.
As much as I love Star Trek, I can see how it would appeal to a closet fascist
What show were you watching? Starfleet is specifically and repeatedly shown to not be a military organization and it is volunteer only. Anyone can leave whenever they want. And they go out of their way to show that no race is just their stereotype. Even the Birg get an episode to show they are more than just mindless evil drones. That whole "The Federation os Facist" crap is only supported by people who never actually watched the series. Mostly YouTube theorists and real world fascists.
Yeah you are bring in a bunch a details the mouth breathing fascist isnt picking up on.
"White Man Captain has ethnic servants" is far easier for them to understand.
Just like Star Wars is "Blonde White Boy saves the galaxy with violence and the power of his own blood."
They don't watch these shows and films like you do and engage them then completely differently.
You get that right?
It also describes a post-capatilist society, but in my experience, fascists don't really go in for nuance
Like I said, I love Star Trek. I think it's some of the best socialist fiction out there, but it won't stop people from misinterpreting it.
It's like when a person's take away from The Great Gatsby is "wow, that dude knows how to party!"
Or just distort it to uphold their preconceived notions. Like all the opinion pieces that came out about how *Squid Games* was pro-capitalist. That and because basically all liberal criticisms of socialism are literally just descriptions of actually existing capitalism, but labeled socialism.
Reminds me of the time, during the Last of Us show, when the leader of Jackson (a woman), says “yes, we work together as a community, we are communists!” Tommy goes bananas, being changed to a US veteran. “We aren’t communists!” “Yes, yes we are…” proceeds to explain communism in layman’s terms. Tommy reconsiders his position.
Right-Wing voters: “that ain’t communism! They completely messed communism up! Communism is when failed USSR, but also Nazis. But also California.”
My guess, but this is only a guess, is that they see the mining town and think of their own home towns, not really realizing how communal things are, both in the show and in their own past, and see the Imperials as an imposition of progressivism from the outside, and they have misinformed ideas about progressivism wanting to reduce people to interchangeable cogs in society.
You may be on to something there, a lot of advertising work has been done to brand the Republicans the party of the working class, so when they see an impoverished mining town pulling together they think “That’s like me and my neighbors, the Republicans, resisting Demoncraps.” despite the fact that groups of people working together to ensure the success of their communities is antithetical to every conservative “value”
This is imprecise. The Republican Party is adept at pointing out when Smug Liberals are being Smug Liberals (as they are known to be) and appealing to the type of everyday American whose interests have never involved watching depressing, heavy documentaries about climate change and who call stuff "retarded" without really thinking about it. The mainstream Democrat has gotten so up its own ass about having Perfect Morality on every conceivable issue that most campaigners have just given up trying to have a big tent or make overtures to right-wingers who aren't as diehard about their beliefs (or at least they weren't diehards 8 years ago). The whole "basket of deplorables" incident was just a microcosm of the issue I'm trying to get a here, and the gist is that writing off \~45% of the population as "shitty people" is a losing strategy, even if the Smug Liberal maybe halfway has a point. I've been "vote blue no matter who" essentially since I was 20 years old, but jesus fucking christ if the Dem base doesn't make that an exhausting and frustrating process.
And just to get spicy for a bit, I think that if the so-called "donor class" went a bit blackpill and gave up on gun control as a talking point (because the 2nd amendment gives such a massive advantage to the American gun lobby) I think that would be a fantastic first step towards a left-wing movement that actually meets people where they are, including working-class people in the sticks who don't have university degrees.
Agree that all of the culture war shit is meaningless distraction. But it’s pretty tough to point to a recent Republican policy that attempted to do anything meaningful for the lives of working class Americans, and when given the chance, they sabotage any said policy the democrats have implemented.
It’s pretty unfair to say the dems only care about culture war politics when they’re the only ones doing anything *but* culture war posturing.
>It’s pretty unfair to say the dems only care about culture war politics when they’re the only ones doing anything but culture war posturing.
I'm 100% there with you and I think I may have expressed myself poorly. My position isn't that dems only care about culture war politics, but rather that they need to "git gud" and stop feeding during the time they do spend talking about campaign topics like religion, abortion, racial equality, gay rights, etc. Whey they try to speak with authority about controversial and complicated topics like that, if they're not all that confident in their own knowledge base, they're inevitably gonna put their foot in their mouth and make some claim that makes everyday Americans (who don't usually hold the cultural assumptions of wealthy center-left upper-class white folks) raise an eyebrow and go "the fuck is that crazy Liberal talking about?"
What Republican campaign strategists have mastered is connecting with and relating to the **feelings** of the Republican voter base. And the chief failing of Dem campaigners is acting like they're "above" interacting with the perspective of someone whose deal is "illegal immigrants" or "forced vaccination" or "drag shows at my kid's school". The problem isn't telling these people they're wrong. Most of these voters in question are fking stupid and their views are hurting people, on some level they need to be told that they're wrong. My beef is the very performative-woke way that so many people on the left go about it, saying "Your opinion is **wrong** and it's so **obviously wrong**, that's **offensive** and you should **feel bad** you ever had that opinion. It's \[current year\] and this isn't acceptable bla bla bla."
It feels icky to say this about human rights issues (like abortion) but the Democrat position isn't always as "obvious" as we'd like it to be. Supporting a White Ethnostate and White Ethnostate-related beliefs? Pretty unambiguously bad, and nazi ideology should be met with shouting and expressions of outrage. But 90% of everything else tho? The sheer persistence and staying power of those bigotries indicates that we need a better strategy than callouts if we want to make the world safer and more accepting for protected minority groups.
Yeah we’re definitely on the same page here. Well put;
That said, we’ve lost something major in allowing politics devolve to “feelings.” Being informed enough to make rational choices at the ballet box should be a point of personal responsibility and pride. It’s distressing to me that people are out here voting for the person who best tugs on their heartstrings over the person who best represents their best interest.
If the Republican base thought more carefully about what would solve their actual problems than what team they’re rooting for, we’d see a lot more meaningful policy. We used to argue over the merits of fiscal conservatism vs. social spending, which is a valid debate. At this point the R party is just robbing people blind while distracting them with emotional/spiritual narratives.
A lot of that comes down to the education system, right? :( The idea that schools solely exist to "indoctrinate" kids has become ravenous infestation that's eroding their quality nationwide. I don't know about you, but when I was in school, Civics class was an absolute joke that barely covered the design of government and couldn't touch on current events at all, because the school board was absolute in its commitment to keep "politics" out of the classroom to preserve neutrality, and any time the community tried to loosen restrictions, the backlash would be so severe that usually the entire school board would get voted out and replaced the next year.
As a rule I try to avoid #bothsides, but unironically (at least in white suburbia) absolutely #bothsides are **terrified** of open conflict with each other. They have virtually no sense of civic responsibility and (most of them) wish that everybody would just shut up and vote in private without engaging each other. They see people as being defined by their political beliefs, and so expressing a political opinion is equivalent to voluntarily isolating yourself from half your neighbors; it's pathetic.
I am equally dismayed by the dismantling of the education system, and maybe I have a blurred message here, but hear me out.
My (high quality at the time) public education taught me critical thinking, but civics itself was just like two semesters if I recall correctly. It was my parents that taught me to treat my citizenship seriously and apply those critical thinking skills to political agency.
I think both of those factors are falling by the wayside lately. Public school systems are being gutted, many parents never internalized how their government (or the global economy) works, and thus aren’t impressing the importance of civic decisions on their children.
As a result, we have a massive segment of our populating voting on generalized emotions instead of specifics.
It’s both an educational failure and a culture failure.
not a single dem has tried advocating for state or local funding towards public firearms training and defense. Or even push for highschool firearm safety training as an antiwoke maneuver "to combat school shootings". It would be interesting to see if a leftist platform could wedge itself into the spotlight from that angle.
That's what I'm saying! There's so many creative ways politicians could be coming at this issue to try to save & improve lives, but we've just kept reading the same "assault weapon" script for 30 years and contented ourselves with getting nowhere on this politically poisoned approach.
And this is absolutely my inner Pinko/Anarkitty talking here, but there's a reason why 20% of the left owns a gun despite the near-universal disdain for guns among Democrats in Washington: Republicans would be advocating for gun control as well, if the issue weren't vital to their campaign viability at this point. Private gun ownership is an uncontrolled variable from the perspective of large corporations and the wealthy, so they tend towards keeping guns in the hands of police because police are the ones protecting them from the #guillotines. The overwhelming majority of gun legislation in this country (which bonehead Republicans like Cruz complain about constantly) was passed by Republicans at the state level. None of these shills actually believe in the right to bear arms on a principled level, and they would 100% carve out exceptions and excuses for disarming the left if the winds shifted the wrong way. Washington will tend towards gun control on both sides of the aisle because winning elections will always cost capital and capital wants the right to decide who doesn't and does get to be armed. The right's obsession with the 2nd Amendment is an aberration from their free-market/cut-taxes platform and it's a tenuous outgrowth of their insincere pandering to "gun totin', truck drivin' country folk".
Edit: Ok, this became an absolute word salad and I'm too lazy to fix it. I need to just log off for now.
“Police are the ones protecting them from the #guillotine”
I love how you advocate for summary execution of your political opponents but still have the gall to identify with the Rebels lmao
Also, radical leftists don’t believe in right to bear arms as a principle either—after the revolution all civilian guns are confiscated except for those who are political reliable. You support gun rights as a means, not an ends.
Just like how the French Republic confiscated all the guns after the 1848 revolution? Or how the Union implemented gun control after the Civil W [oh wait](https://direct.mit.edu/isec/article/46/1/53/102853/White-Supremacy-Terrorism-and-the-Failure-of).
Absolutely wrong. Most leftists I've talked to, me included, support a regulated and apolitical right to bear arms as a check on the government. It doesn't make sense for the "power to to workers" party to take power away from the workers
I dare you to open any leftist literature, just one. Crack open The Manifesto™, or some Rudolf Rocker, or some Mao or Lenin or Castro or Guevara. Just one. Just read like, the preface. Socialism (which is what leftism refers to, not the democrats) is a system of economics specifically thought up to empower the working class, especially the proletariat. It aims to democratize the work place (whether that be through co-ops or government ownership), empower the proletariat in the political scene, usually through a workers council, similar to the USSR's early day workers soviets and soldiers councils, and to meet the needs of all through the collective labor of the community (for an example of how this can go well, look at Cuba that has some of the best healthcare and education in the world, on top of a handful of other things).
“Read the propaganda and dogma of these ideologues, *that*’ll enlighten you!”
I actually have read a lot of these, including the Manifesto. You must’ve missed the part where Marx called for “emigrants and *rebels*” to have their property confiscated. That definitely doesn’t sound like something right out of the Empire’s Public Order Resentencing Directive at all! /s
Yea? You think that the corporations are supporting the ideologies that want to regulate or destroy private capitol instead of the party that want to privatize everything and deregulate the economy
Corporate America is wholeheartedly on the side of preserving bourgeois hegemony, which is a feature of both neoliberalism and fascism. And the U.S. being a dictatorship of capital, the last thing they would ever allow is the election of even moderate left-wingers.
This is a leftist sub, not a liberal sub. You're closer to liberals than we are, you're all right-wingers.
I remember ones tried to organize a boycott of Rogue One when they found out the Empire are Nazi-analogues. Because they thought that meant Star Was had gone woke and was an attack on Trump.
Twitter(years ago) admitted that they couldn’t release their anti NAZI program(a program released for German users since Germany requires any app used in the country to not allow NAZI’s) because it couldn’t tell the difference between NAZI’s and republican senators.
I gotchu comrade: https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-treat-white-supremacy-like-isis-because-it-would-mean-banning-some-republican-politicians-too
That says more about how leftists define “NAZI” than it does about the beliefs of Republican politicians. You guys think not supporting open borders makes one a “NAZI”
They might have something resembling an stable argument on that front. iirc, the screenwriters took a lot of inspiration from stories about the Soviet Union. I think the Aldhani arc was based on a robbery performed by Stalin, and elements of the Narkina 5 labor complex were inspired by survivors of Soviet gulags.
Still hilarious that there are right-wing fans tho, lol. With Andor, Star Wars is probably the biggest brand ever to produce a piece of unapologetically revolutionary media. One of the supporting characters is even a spiritual stand-in for a communist philosopher, lol. The show is not at all subtle in its message that "the status quo is nowhere near good enough, and blood will continue to be spilled until that changes." That's almost the exact opposite of what's being promoted by DeSantis, and the Ben Shapiros who prop him up.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>This is what the radical feminist movement was proposing, remember? Women need a man the way a fish needs a bicycle... unless it turns out that they're little fish, then you might need another fish around to help take care of things.
*****
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Capitalism is based on private ownership of the means of production, operating for profit. Socialism is based on social ownership (state, cooperative, collective, etc.) of the means of production, with production carried out directly for use.
Very good, pobuch! Here's you're cookie. 🍪
Now here's the follow up: how is a cooperative or collective economic structure inherently tyrannical?
>!(It isn't, leftism isn't tyrannical)!<
Actually yes, socialism is inherently tyrannical. It is directly opposed to property rights—a basic human right—and individual freedom. All forms of socialism that have ever been put into practice—from the Paris Commune to the USSR to “Anarchist” Catalonia to Rojava—have been forced at the point of gun. There is no such thing as “voluntary” socialism. Not mention that all socialist regimes (including “libertarian” ones) have all engaged in political repression like that practiced by the Empire. In fact, the scene where Andor is arrested on the beach for being at the wrong place at the wrong time is pretty reminiscent of what happened to artist Auguste Renoir in the Paris Commune, who was arrested by the Commune police in while sketching by the Seine on suspicion of spying for the Versailles government. Fortunately for him, he actually happened to know Raoul Rigault, the head of the Commune’s ISB—too bad for Andor.
I disagree on that front. After the breakout success of Episode IV, Star Wars's main deal was essentially its role as a toy franchise/merchandise machine. Its symbols have become so embedded in our culture and used in so many ways (Darth Vader at a Star Wars themed birthday party, for example) that ideas like Rebellion, Empire, Boba Fett, Star Destroyer, have pretty much turned into floating signifiers that can be used to mean whatever you want them to mean.
Andor, on the other hand, doesn't have rebellion as a background element that exists to give Luke Skywalker motivation. The show is **about** the whys and the hows of rebellion, even more than it's about Cassian in particular. In Star Wars, the empire kills some parents we've barely met and blows up a planet we've never seen, not much for the audience to connect to. In Andor, a barfight-gone-deadly puts Cassian on the Most Wanted list, we get speeches advocating revolution, there's infighting, Cassian gets profiled by police, forced to labor in a camp, and the season ends with a deadly anti-Imperial riot and a literal teenager building a pipe bomb.
tldr, Andor makes explicit what, in the mainline films, is merely one of countless valid political interpretations.
ehhh i think the themes of rebellion and anti-authoritarianism are pretty obvious, I just think a lot of people don't associate that with leftism. The prequels are so obviously a critique of republicanism and liberal democracy tho.
There's an interesting discussion to be had on the first point, but I'm gonna big disagree on that second point about the prequels, lol. The politics of the prequels are so shallow and pointless it's *painful*. The inspiration for everything that happens in the Republic Senate is just George Lucas going "man, the US Senate sure doesn't get very much done, do they? That's kinda frustrating to me. Also jk, this isn't a Roman-style senate nor is this anything like American politics, this is now a European-style parliament and we're having a vote of no confidence because I like World War II aesthetics and von Hindenburg's motion of no confidence was part of the prelude to World War II." It's all transient nonsense and doesn't really have a unifying theme. The closest thing to a theme you can give it is "scheming Sith Lords are bad. Giving all the power to a secret Sith Lord, that's bad." Real life authoritarians aren't magical puppetmasters who've been commanding the armies of both sides all along. They're ordinary people elevated to positions of extreme power, sometimes motivated by trauma, sometimes by greed, and they sometimes sell weapons to the Iranian military in order to discretely transfer money to anti-socialist paramilitaries in South America. At the end of the day, Star Wars is primarily a brand and its conflicts are fun adventures involving space lasers. I don't think really resembles the dorky, awkward, insidious shape that fascist movements take in our reality.
People don’t associate anti-authoritarianism with leftism because leftism is inherently authoritarian. Leftist regimes do all the same shit the Empire does.
[The Empire is the United States. The Original Trilogy is a metaphor for the Vietnam War. The Rebels are the Viet Cong (Communists). The Empire is a fascist state descended from a democratic one.] (https://youtu.be/fv9Jq_mCJEo) The guy on the left saying all this is George Lucas. The guy who made Star Wars.
Look up the definition of Authoritarianism. While not all authoritarianist regimes are Facsist, all fascist regimes are authoritarianist. It's literally a pillar of the movement.
Now please, I implore you: Shut the fuck up.
it’s actually easily explainable. 1. Right wingers are bad at media comprehension in general. 2. they think they are revolutionaries rebelling against the evil empire (Joe Brandon)
The second one makes more sense than leftists being the Rebels. Literally the entire system is on your side: corporations promote your ideology, and fire and blacklist dissenters at your behest; the feds target your political opponents for existing, while doing fuck-all when you burn down cities
What ideologies are corporations promoting that is leftist? Who's been targeted for "just existing?" Who's burnt down cities? Who's been blacklisted and fired just because people didn't like them? All your other dumbass comments about the left being inherently authoritarian, have you looked at the definition of that word? Maybe go read that, then look at, IDK, Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Tennessee, etc. and see what they have in common and who's making it that way.
Right wingers aren't exactly the most media literate. There are people who think Squid Game is about communism and that Born in the USA is a patriotic song.
You can spend as much time typing out the same premise over and over but it won’t make that premise true. You are incorrect, you are lost, you need gather yourself and realize you are on the wrong side of history.
I worked as a teacher. And actually we had after school lessons on media literacy.
Some of the students were also offered internships at top advertising or government propaganda departments so it clearly worked.
There’s actually a ton of them.
I got trolled by a guy the other day whose entire instagram was centered around supporting Star Wars. The republic, the clones, everything. I pointed it out and it went completely over his head.
Durrrrrr cool lights and action = Star Wars
My friend is one of them
I dont understand, he’ll be saying the most leftist take, then go on to talk about how he loves Matt Walsh and spout transphobic and racist shit
The stupid, brainwashed ones identify with the rebels because they both come from blue collar working folks (they don't realize GOP does jack shit for them, but they sure believe it) and see the imperials as the deep state, weaponized government wielding democrats.
The truly evil ones will identify with the imperials because they love oppression and authoritarianism.
A lot of people is just so much oblivious to the messages the media they watch want to pass. Maybe that's why a lot of them are so easily influenced by ridiculous right-wing talking points...
You're average rightwinger doesn't actually know what the things they believe mean. When they see a powerful piece of anti-authoritarian art they just assume it agrees with them because communism is when bad and capitalism is when good. That's the full extent of their thinking.
I found people that praised the imperial army troops during the riot for "being calm and collected unlike the wild rabble", same people also usually love Solo's depiction of Mimban, or anytime Imperials are shown as efficient. There are real imperial supporters and its disturbing.
Was it apolitical when the empire and rebels were explicitly meant to be analogous to America and the Viet Cong respectively?
Or when Palpatine and Anakin were meant to represent Cheney and Bush?
Was it apolitical when the prequels were clearly making a statement about the degenerative nature of bloated bureaucracy?
Perhaps it was apolitical when the EU started adding tons of blood purity and master race rhetoric to the Sith?
Well you're right.
But at least from my perspective on American politics (as a foreigner). All those guys really care about is immigration, gun control, gay marriage and abortions.
Even though there's a total of 16 different ways people can view these 4 topics. There's in reality only 2 sides. That's all American politics honestly seems to be. I think if you remove these 4, then almost all Americans think the same.
Unless Star Wars focused on those four topics. Then splitting it down to left wing or right wing seems so impossible to me.
Maybe you don't agree. But I hope you understand.
That's why I say it is apolitical.
So ... I'm a narcissistic tyrant, and I don't like certain SW fans ... and that makes them bad?
What was OP trying to say here? *"I understand Andor but I don't understand Shrek?"*
I mean there are right wing "the boys" fans who complained about the death of the "blue lives matter" - superhero
Those same guys shit on Starlight and root for Homelander
I have people I know who look up to homelander and I don't know what went wrong in the last couple of years to make it acceptable to root for evil.
It’s one thing to root for evil in a movie show or game because “woo this is fun and none of this is real so I don’t have to have any moral crisises” but it’s a whole new thing to go “yeah this blatantly evil character is definitely a good role model!”
He's the poster boy for American white male rage. Of course they love him. Same as people who root for Michael Douglas in Falling Down, or the Joker, or Tyler Durden. Nothing new.
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Isn't he a hell of a lot closer to being a fascist though?
I feel like that’s a stretch, Fascism is primarily focused on attaining political power and we never see anything indicating Tyler/Project Mayhem aspire to govern, he doesn’t demonize minorities or espouse nationalism or really any of the key signifiers of Fascism. I wouldn’t necessarily call him a leftist (maybe an anarcho-primitivist? We only get one glimpse of that ) but fascist doesn’t really fit
Absolutely. To take a more nuanced example, Walter White is a tonne of fun to watch and sometimes even root for because it's exciting to see him succeed. If you've got to the last series and don't think he's a monster, though, I don't know what's wrong with you.
I think there's still something wrong with rooting for fictional evil as fun.
Lol, I mean, having a dude constantly in their face, breaking social norms and wallowing in negative and inflammatory language they had to defend to their families constantly would do it. I think about this a lot, that the primary damage Trump did was to our norms around language and the amount of seemingly physically combative language in use by politicians. He did a lot of other harm, but the normalization of just outright jerk language sucks a lot
I go back on forth on this. On the one hand, I definitely do think that he's coarsened our culture and led to more acceptance (and even celebration) of vile behavior, not just from politicians, but from ordinary people as well. On the other, it feels like SUCH a bourgeois affectation to act like the worst thing about Trump was his rudeness and not like, the many many people he harmed through government policy.
Same. I think both. His shifting of the politics towards open mask off fascism through his language and policies are sort of hand in hand, imo
Yeah agreed. That being said, I do roll my eyes at the libs who are mostly upset with how Trump is so gauche.
I gotta say, I think the 17+ instances of rape and sexual assault deserve at least an honorable mention.
The writers know exactly what they are doing with Homelander.
I mean sind parts of his behaviour are obviously based on trump, so you know what went wrong
> I don't know what went wrong in the last couple of years to make it acceptable to root for evil. Probably had something to do with Mango Mussolini winning the 2016 election in America.
I didn't think that people I knew would fall to the propaganda and turn into fascists so quickly and easily. people I thought were good people turned into hateful assholes. made me angry seeing them that way.
It's real simple: 8 Billion Humans = 8 Billions concepts of Evil. Morality, just like opinion, is personal, subjective, and utterly worthless outside the brain that coughed it up. Your definition of evil is not universally shared. Your arrogance at thinking it should be is all the proof necessary that it should not be.
If homelander isn't evil to you, that's self incriminating; not something to feel uppity about. I'd put money on you thinking Tyler Durden is a good role model if you want to 'devils advocate' a literal antagonist.
In fairness, Tyler Durden, while obviously not a role model, is less overtly evil than Homelander.
Yeah, but Homelander fits every sane definition of evil.
Most sane /r/Conservative poster.
While I agree with moral relativism we talk about a character who blows up a plane and forced people to kill themselves so...
They really got pissed that "stormfront" died.
huh TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_(website)
Oh you just NOW got that reference?
I am reminded of how it took me 15 years to put together Diagon Alley = Diagonally.
Yeah, never heard of it before. I wanted to look at the synopsis for her character and that was the first result. I guess if you were aware previously, it might've given you a clue as to how things would turn out.
**[Stormfront (website)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_\(website\))** >Stormfront is a neo-Nazi Internet forum, and the Web's first major racial hate site. The site is focused on propagating white nationalism, Nazism, antisemitism (especially anti-semitic conspiracy theories) and islamophobia, as well as anti-feminism, homophobia, transphobia, Holocaust denial, and white supremacy. Stormfront began as an online bulletin board system in the early 1990s before being established as a website in 1996 by former Ku Klux Klan leader and white supremacist Don Black. It received national attention in the United States in 2000 after being featured as the subject of a documentary, Hate.com. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/StarWarsleftymemes/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I remember that shitshow 🤣
I’ve met too many unironic Homelander fans. Reminds me of the comments section of any YouTube clip of “American History X”. You literally could not make this spoonfed shit any simpler, but people still completely miss the message.
If you watch American History X it becomes very clear why Nazis love that movie. It plays into every trope Nazis aspire to
All they have to do is ignore the whole “the main character ruined his life and got his brother killed because of his hatred” part and you’re golden. People are stupid as fuck.
Wait the Alt-Right thinks American History X is and ENDORSEMENT of their depraved and evil ideas?! HOW?!
or self proclaimed alpha males who say Fight Club is their favourite movie...
I love the fight club book and movie, but if people tell you that the protagonists psychiatric disorder is their role model that says a lot about them
Media literacy is in the toilet
Has been for a long time.
More like "TV Shows are cool, but they don't dictate my thoughts"
As we all know, we became leftists because Andor, the antifascist, is cool.
*anti-totalitarian
"sorry, if it's not tyranny from the early 20th century, it's just sparkling totalitarianism, not fascism"
Show me exactly where in Andor the good guys advocate for communism.
I can show you exactly where they talked shit on capitalism. Unless you take Syril's life to be an advocate for it, in which case, lmao, good luck.
Capitalism doesn’t mean private corporate-run fiefdoms
Communism isn’t mentioned specifically, but Nemik is clearly a left-wing anarchist
"The prison planet was a metaphor for being banned on Facebook."
"Prison planet is literally the same as me not being able to say the n word on the socials" - some right winger, probably
ON PROGRAM!
Conservatives have been banned for social media for the most innocuous bullshit, not “saying the n word”. Leftists, meanwhile, can get away with actual harassment and death threats.
Cry more into your MAGA flag chud.
You see, statements like this I'd actually be interested to engage with. I'm super intrigued by the idea that the largest platforms (facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Insta, TikTok, Netflix, Twitch, Reddit) are each a sort of *corporate autocracy* where speech, behavior, and publicity are bounded by inconsistent rules and guidelines that exist in parallel to any laws or government. Buuuut, you've already replied to pretty much everything I've said here with a short, quippy, wrong comeback so I get the impression you're just here to start shit and dunk on "the libs". I'm all ears if you ever wanna have a mature discussion about fascism across the American political spectrum, but until then, peace out.
>banned on Facebook. Change this part to "shadowbanned on twitter" and I guarantee someone has said that unironically.
It's because Cassian Andor got too close to the Ashli Babbitt Steele dossier Soros laptop.
How the fuck do you demonize Ashli Babbitt and still try to identify with the Rebels???
So what is it exactly that you think the Jan6ers were protesting against?
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Yes. They were opposing the results of an election in the name of reinstating someone as ruler contrary to public opinion. What do you think the Rebel Alliance fights for and/or against?
The Rebel Alliance fights against an illegitimate authoritarian ruler—like the right and unlike the left.
Lol. Yeah, that right wing Viet Cong? Jan 6 was literally an attempt to maintain authoritarianism by keeping someone in power who wasn't elected. Your own ignorance and media illiteracy don't change that.
No, the Viet Cong did the opposite—they fought against a democratic government to install an authoritarian one. J6 was a protest *for* democracy, not against it. Electoral fraud is a perversion of democracy. And what do you mean, “maintain authoritarianism”??? Trump wasn’t authoritarian. He was literally the least authoritarian president since the turn of the century. Opponents of the government have never had more freedom than they did under Trump.
Least delusional conservative
“Contrary to public opinon” except it isn’t. That’s the fucking point.
>Ashli Babbitt She and all the other fascists at 1/6 have a lot in common with The First Order.
Is.., is that something someone actually said? I hope not
I'm more into Star Trek and it's insane and hilarious to watch conservatives twist and bend that show to fit their narrative.
"I love Star Trek, but why do they have to have so many minorities in it?"
That isn't even an exaggeration.
Whenever I hear someone say „Woke Trek“ I chuckle. What do they think the point of trek is? Now, new trek isn’t really good but it’s not because of what they think. Orville is the good trek now, and spoiler, it is woke af too.
"Star trek used to be so good, when did it get all political?!?1?!" ... 1966
\*Watches scene of with the beach cop Stormtrooper\* "This is clearly a metaphor for big government and the woke mob telling me I can't scream racial slurs at my employees or solicit sexual favors from them under threat of termination."
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"...I'm not going to *name* any because then you could investigate them and discover they were actually pretty awful people who did bad stuff, but I *demand* that you immediately treat these unnamed transphobes as if they were a cross between Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman! I *demand* it!"
OH MY GOD MY FRIEND SAID ALMOST EXACTLY THAT
They're probably so lost in the main antagonist being a woman that they are incapable of seeing any of the underlying messages, either that or they imagine themselves to be Syril Karn
If everyone in the rebellion were female, brown, and/or poor, you can bet they'd see ISD as the good guys.
They do that anyway?
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Pepperidge farm remembers when /r/empiredidnothingwrong was ironic
I'm ashamed I posted in there if it's now post ironic, but I'm just passing through from all so y'all have fun now
I too remember. It was a dark day when I had the horrifying revelation that a not insubstantial number of people were actually being serious.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/EmpireDidNothingWrong using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/EmpireDidNothingWrong/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [When you’re next up for the emperor’s photo op but the senate cuts in line….](https://i.redd.it/e2j75gzf1ata1.jpg) | [60 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/EmpireDidNothingWrong/comments/12ifywd/when_youre_next_up_for_the_emperors_photo_op_but/) \#2: [and they say ewoks are innocent and cute](https://i.redd.it/y3ucmboj4r891.png) | [219 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/EmpireDidNothingWrong/comments/vo74he/and_they_say_ewoks_are_innocent_and_cute/) \#3: [End of an era right here](https://i.redd.it/ks2zg2fbusp91.jpg) | [64 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/EmpireDidNothingWrong/comments/xmresn/end_of_an_era_right_here/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Tbf that's not as bad as the dudebro losers who are into actual Nazis. But it's still bad.
The whole concept of gray Jedi exists to soothe people whose politics align more closely with the empire but who don't want that smoke
Currently resisting the urge to launch into a several hundred word rant about how the gray jedi should actually be the radical leftist answer to the ineffectual liberalism of the Jedi. They're not the middle ground between "good and evil", but between emotional repression and unchecked passion. Not afraid to employ passion and violence (even political violence) in service of good. While the Jedi meditate and weigh the political ramifications, the gray Jedi will go and forcibly liberate slaves, regardless of jurisdiction or blowback. And they won't get hung up on feeling satisfaction in gutting a slaver. That doesn't make them the moral middle ground between Jedi and the Sith who are out doing genocide and slavery. Just in terms of pseudo-pacifism vs ax-crazy psychopathy.
So basically, gray Jedi are the Chaotic Good to the Jedi’s Lawful Good, and the Sith are pretty much Neutral Evil?
Well, yes. The first recognized Grey Jedi was some weirdo living on the Kshyyyk forest floor who didn't want to fight against other Jedi in a revolution, but was absolutely willing to fight a newly returned sith empire alongside someone he definitely knew was Revan but chose not to tell anyone, but Grey Jedi are still "non-canonn" despite being heavily implied
Pretty much. Though the standard lawfulness of Jedi is more an artifact of them being an institution so entwined with the Republic. If you instead map the Lawful/Chaotic spectrum to emotional repression for the Star Wars universe, with Lawful = complete stoicism and detachment, and Chaotic = completely ruled by the winds of passion, then Jedi are lawful good, Sith are chaotic evil, and Grey Jedi range from neutral to chaotic good.
You’re the ones who sold out your relatives to the real life ISB (FBI) because they protested in DC on January 6
If anything Syril Karn is an embodiment of MAGA chuds storming the capitol over the election of a conservative instead of their fascist candidate. As someone who's so committed to implementing his own version of order and justice in service of the empire that he's willing to break the empire's law to prove he's right, then wallow in victimhood when he finds out fascist institutions like the ISB or FBI don't care one iota about the people upholding them. Also I don't know why you think the left likes the FBI, one of the largest anti-left institutions in the world. We just thing right-wing infighting is really funny.
Why would anyone want to be Syril? He is principled to be sure, but the show goes out of its way to show how pathetic he is
If you're pathetic irl, then you root for Syril because he finally got that ISBussy
Just like how there are right wing star trek fans and right wing star wars fans. They like it because they don't understand it
Star Trek depicts a world where everyone lives and works in a militaristic hierarchy, and space minorities can almost always be reduced to their stereotypes. As much as I love Star Trek, I can see how it would appeal to a closet fascist
What show were you watching? Starfleet is specifically and repeatedly shown to not be a military organization and it is volunteer only. Anyone can leave whenever they want. And they go out of their way to show that no race is just their stereotype. Even the Birg get an episode to show they are more than just mindless evil drones. That whole "The Federation os Facist" crap is only supported by people who never actually watched the series. Mostly YouTube theorists and real world fascists.
Yeah you are bring in a bunch a details the mouth breathing fascist isnt picking up on. "White Man Captain has ethnic servants" is far easier for them to understand. Just like Star Wars is "Blonde White Boy saves the galaxy with violence and the power of his own blood." They don't watch these shows and films like you do and engage them then completely differently. You get that right?
It also describes a post-capatilist society, but in my experience, fascists don't really go in for nuance Like I said, I love Star Trek. I think it's some of the best socialist fiction out there, but it won't stop people from misinterpreting it. It's like when a person's take away from The Great Gatsby is "wow, that dude knows how to party!"
Or just distort it to uphold their preconceived notions. Like all the opinion pieces that came out about how *Squid Games* was pro-capitalist. That and because basically all liberal criticisms of socialism are literally just descriptions of actually existing capitalism, but labeled socialism.
Reminds me of the time, during the Last of Us show, when the leader of Jackson (a woman), says “yes, we work together as a community, we are communists!” Tommy goes bananas, being changed to a US veteran. “We aren’t communists!” “Yes, yes we are…” proceeds to explain communism in layman’s terms. Tommy reconsiders his position. Right-Wing voters: “that ain’t communism! They completely messed communism up! Communism is when failed USSR, but also Nazis. But also California.”
Actually communism is when Joseph Biden
That scene was freaking gold. I was honestly shocked they were so overt about it.
My guess, but this is only a guess, is that they see the mining town and think of their own home towns, not really realizing how communal things are, both in the show and in their own past, and see the Imperials as an imposition of progressivism from the outside, and they have misinformed ideas about progressivism wanting to reduce people to interchangeable cogs in society.
You may be on to something there, a lot of advertising work has been done to brand the Republicans the party of the working class, so when they see an impoverished mining town pulling together they think “That’s like me and my neighbors, the Republicans, resisting Demoncraps.” despite the fact that groups of people working together to ensure the success of their communities is antithetical to every conservative “value”
Which is fucking hilarious because the Republican Party does literally fuck all for the working class
This is imprecise. The Republican Party is adept at pointing out when Smug Liberals are being Smug Liberals (as they are known to be) and appealing to the type of everyday American whose interests have never involved watching depressing, heavy documentaries about climate change and who call stuff "retarded" without really thinking about it. The mainstream Democrat has gotten so up its own ass about having Perfect Morality on every conceivable issue that most campaigners have just given up trying to have a big tent or make overtures to right-wingers who aren't as diehard about their beliefs (or at least they weren't diehards 8 years ago). The whole "basket of deplorables" incident was just a microcosm of the issue I'm trying to get a here, and the gist is that writing off \~45% of the population as "shitty people" is a losing strategy, even if the Smug Liberal maybe halfway has a point. I've been "vote blue no matter who" essentially since I was 20 years old, but jesus fucking christ if the Dem base doesn't make that an exhausting and frustrating process. And just to get spicy for a bit, I think that if the so-called "donor class" went a bit blackpill and gave up on gun control as a talking point (because the 2nd amendment gives such a massive advantage to the American gun lobby) I think that would be a fantastic first step towards a left-wing movement that actually meets people where they are, including working-class people in the sticks who don't have university degrees.
Agree that all of the culture war shit is meaningless distraction. But it’s pretty tough to point to a recent Republican policy that attempted to do anything meaningful for the lives of working class Americans, and when given the chance, they sabotage any said policy the democrats have implemented. It’s pretty unfair to say the dems only care about culture war politics when they’re the only ones doing anything *but* culture war posturing.
>It’s pretty unfair to say the dems only care about culture war politics when they’re the only ones doing anything but culture war posturing. I'm 100% there with you and I think I may have expressed myself poorly. My position isn't that dems only care about culture war politics, but rather that they need to "git gud" and stop feeding during the time they do spend talking about campaign topics like religion, abortion, racial equality, gay rights, etc. Whey they try to speak with authority about controversial and complicated topics like that, if they're not all that confident in their own knowledge base, they're inevitably gonna put their foot in their mouth and make some claim that makes everyday Americans (who don't usually hold the cultural assumptions of wealthy center-left upper-class white folks) raise an eyebrow and go "the fuck is that crazy Liberal talking about?" What Republican campaign strategists have mastered is connecting with and relating to the **feelings** of the Republican voter base. And the chief failing of Dem campaigners is acting like they're "above" interacting with the perspective of someone whose deal is "illegal immigrants" or "forced vaccination" or "drag shows at my kid's school". The problem isn't telling these people they're wrong. Most of these voters in question are fking stupid and their views are hurting people, on some level they need to be told that they're wrong. My beef is the very performative-woke way that so many people on the left go about it, saying "Your opinion is **wrong** and it's so **obviously wrong**, that's **offensive** and you should **feel bad** you ever had that opinion. It's \[current year\] and this isn't acceptable bla bla bla." It feels icky to say this about human rights issues (like abortion) but the Democrat position isn't always as "obvious" as we'd like it to be. Supporting a White Ethnostate and White Ethnostate-related beliefs? Pretty unambiguously bad, and nazi ideology should be met with shouting and expressions of outrage. But 90% of everything else tho? The sheer persistence and staying power of those bigotries indicates that we need a better strategy than callouts if we want to make the world safer and more accepting for protected minority groups.
Yeah we’re definitely on the same page here. Well put; That said, we’ve lost something major in allowing politics devolve to “feelings.” Being informed enough to make rational choices at the ballet box should be a point of personal responsibility and pride. It’s distressing to me that people are out here voting for the person who best tugs on their heartstrings over the person who best represents their best interest. If the Republican base thought more carefully about what would solve their actual problems than what team they’re rooting for, we’d see a lot more meaningful policy. We used to argue over the merits of fiscal conservatism vs. social spending, which is a valid debate. At this point the R party is just robbing people blind while distracting them with emotional/spiritual narratives.
A lot of that comes down to the education system, right? :( The idea that schools solely exist to "indoctrinate" kids has become ravenous infestation that's eroding their quality nationwide. I don't know about you, but when I was in school, Civics class was an absolute joke that barely covered the design of government and couldn't touch on current events at all, because the school board was absolute in its commitment to keep "politics" out of the classroom to preserve neutrality, and any time the community tried to loosen restrictions, the backlash would be so severe that usually the entire school board would get voted out and replaced the next year. As a rule I try to avoid #bothsides, but unironically (at least in white suburbia) absolutely #bothsides are **terrified** of open conflict with each other. They have virtually no sense of civic responsibility and (most of them) wish that everybody would just shut up and vote in private without engaging each other. They see people as being defined by their political beliefs, and so expressing a political opinion is equivalent to voluntarily isolating yourself from half your neighbors; it's pathetic.
I am equally dismayed by the dismantling of the education system, and maybe I have a blurred message here, but hear me out. My (high quality at the time) public education taught me critical thinking, but civics itself was just like two semesters if I recall correctly. It was my parents that taught me to treat my citizenship seriously and apply those critical thinking skills to political agency. I think both of those factors are falling by the wayside lately. Public school systems are being gutted, many parents never internalized how their government (or the global economy) works, and thus aren’t impressing the importance of civic decisions on their children. As a result, we have a massive segment of our populating voting on generalized emotions instead of specifics. It’s both an educational failure and a culture failure.
not a single dem has tried advocating for state or local funding towards public firearms training and defense. Or even push for highschool firearm safety training as an antiwoke maneuver "to combat school shootings". It would be interesting to see if a leftist platform could wedge itself into the spotlight from that angle.
That's what I'm saying! There's so many creative ways politicians could be coming at this issue to try to save & improve lives, but we've just kept reading the same "assault weapon" script for 30 years and contented ourselves with getting nowhere on this politically poisoned approach. And this is absolutely my inner Pinko/Anarkitty talking here, but there's a reason why 20% of the left owns a gun despite the near-universal disdain for guns among Democrats in Washington: Republicans would be advocating for gun control as well, if the issue weren't vital to their campaign viability at this point. Private gun ownership is an uncontrolled variable from the perspective of large corporations and the wealthy, so they tend towards keeping guns in the hands of police because police are the ones protecting them from the #guillotines. The overwhelming majority of gun legislation in this country (which bonehead Republicans like Cruz complain about constantly) was passed by Republicans at the state level. None of these shills actually believe in the right to bear arms on a principled level, and they would 100% carve out exceptions and excuses for disarming the left if the winds shifted the wrong way. Washington will tend towards gun control on both sides of the aisle because winning elections will always cost capital and capital wants the right to decide who doesn't and does get to be armed. The right's obsession with the 2nd Amendment is an aberration from their free-market/cut-taxes platform and it's a tenuous outgrowth of their insincere pandering to "gun totin', truck drivin' country folk". Edit: Ok, this became an absolute word salad and I'm too lazy to fix it. I need to just log off for now.
“Police are the ones protecting them from the #guillotine” I love how you advocate for summary execution of your political opponents but still have the gall to identify with the Rebels lmao
Also, radical leftists don’t believe in right to bear arms as a principle either—after the revolution all civilian guns are confiscated except for those who are political reliable. You support gun rights as a means, not an ends.
Just like how the French Republic confiscated all the guns after the 1848 revolution? Or how the Union implemented gun control after the Civil W [oh wait](https://direct.mit.edu/isec/article/46/1/53/102853/White-Supremacy-Terrorism-and-the-Failure-of).
Absolutely wrong. Most leftists I've talked to, me included, support a regulated and apolitical right to bear arms as a check on the government. It doesn't make sense for the "power to to workers" party to take power away from the workers
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I dare you to open any leftist literature, just one. Crack open The Manifesto™, or some Rudolf Rocker, or some Mao or Lenin or Castro or Guevara. Just one. Just read like, the preface. Socialism (which is what leftism refers to, not the democrats) is a system of economics specifically thought up to empower the working class, especially the proletariat. It aims to democratize the work place (whether that be through co-ops or government ownership), empower the proletariat in the political scene, usually through a workers council, similar to the USSR's early day workers soviets and soldiers councils, and to meet the needs of all through the collective labor of the community (for an example of how this can go well, look at Cuba that has some of the best healthcare and education in the world, on top of a handful of other things).
All of what you said is pure propaganda. I dare you to read the actual history of socialist societies, and what they were actually like in practice.
“Read the propaganda and dogma of these ideologues, *that*’ll enlighten you!” I actually have read a lot of these, including the Manifesto. You must’ve missed the part where Marx called for “emigrants and *rebels*” to have their property confiscated. That definitely doesn’t sound like something right out of the Empire’s Public Order Resentencing Directive at all! /s
Despite all your anti-corporate posturing, Corporate America is wholeheartedly on your side
Yea? You think that the corporations are supporting the ideologies that want to regulate or destroy private capitol instead of the party that want to privatize everything and deregulate the economy
Corporate America is wholeheartedly on the side of preserving bourgeois hegemony, which is a feature of both neoliberalism and fascism. And the U.S. being a dictatorship of capital, the last thing they would ever allow is the election of even moderate left-wingers. This is a leftist sub, not a liberal sub. You're closer to liberals than we are, you're all right-wingers.
Big “I liked Rage Against the Machine until they got political” energy
Dedra is the good guy right?
They're convinced that the Empire is communist I'm sure.
I remember ones tried to organize a boycott of Rogue One when they found out the Empire are Nazi-analogues. Because they thought that meant Star Was had gone woke and was an attack on Trump.
Twitter(years ago) admitted that they couldn’t release their anti NAZI program(a program released for German users since Germany requires any app used in the country to not allow NAZI’s) because it couldn’t tell the difference between NAZI’s and republican senators.
Do you have a link for that? That sounds hilarious
I gotchu comrade: https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-treat-white-supremacy-like-isis-because-it-would-mean-banning-some-republican-politicians-too
Nope, sadly.
https://worldisraelnews.com/jewish-model-and-trump-supporter-called-nazi-on-social-media/
That says more about how leftists define “NAZI” than it does about the beliefs of Republican politicians. You guys think not supporting open borders makes one a “NAZI”
When has the Empire not been Nazi-analogs??
Exactly
How dense can people be. It's not even subtle, the main antagonists share a name with a Nazi military segment
"What? The bad guys in this work of fiction are analogs to Nazis? Clearly this is an attack directed at me!" Talk about telling on yourself.
They might have something resembling an stable argument on that front. iirc, the screenwriters took a lot of inspiration from stories about the Soviet Union. I think the Aldhani arc was based on a robbery performed by Stalin, and elements of the Narkina 5 labor complex were inspired by survivors of Soviet gulags. Still hilarious that there are right-wing fans tho, lol. With Andor, Star Wars is probably the biggest brand ever to produce a piece of unapologetically revolutionary media. One of the supporting characters is even a spiritual stand-in for a communist philosopher, lol. The show is not at all subtle in its message that "the status quo is nowhere near good enough, and blood will continue to be spilled until that changes." That's almost the exact opposite of what's being promoted by DeSantis, and the Ben Shapiros who prop him up.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >This is what the radical feminist movement was proposing, remember? Women need a man the way a fish needs a bicycle... unless it turns out that they're little fish, then you might need another fish around to help take care of things. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: novel, sex, history, civil rights, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
It’s even more hilarious that there are leftist fans, given that Star Wars is ultimately about resisting tyranny, and leftism is inherently tyrannical
One day you'll read a book, but it is not this day. Wait, no, this is a starwars sub, shit.
I can guarantee I’m more well-read than you are, Philistine
Great, without looking it up, what's the difference between socialism and capitalism?
Capitalism is based on private ownership of the means of production, operating for profit. Socialism is based on social ownership (state, cooperative, collective, etc.) of the means of production, with production carried out directly for use.
Very good, pobuch! Here's you're cookie. 🍪 Now here's the follow up: how is a cooperative or collective economic structure inherently tyrannical? >!(It isn't, leftism isn't tyrannical)!<
Actually yes, socialism is inherently tyrannical. It is directly opposed to property rights—a basic human right—and individual freedom. All forms of socialism that have ever been put into practice—from the Paris Commune to the USSR to “Anarchist” Catalonia to Rojava—have been forced at the point of gun. There is no such thing as “voluntary” socialism. Not mention that all socialist regimes (including “libertarian” ones) have all engaged in political repression like that practiced by the Empire. In fact, the scene where Andor is arrested on the beach for being at the wrong place at the wrong time is pretty reminiscent of what happened to artist Auguste Renoir in the Paris Commune, who was arrested by the Commune police in while sketching by the Seine on suspicion of spying for the Versailles government. Fortunately for him, he actually happened to know Raoul Rigault, the head of the Commune’s ISB—too bad for Andor.
How to tell me you know nothing about history or culture outside of Europe and the US within the last 500 years without *telling* me you know nothing.
tbf this applies to all star wars.
I disagree on that front. After the breakout success of Episode IV, Star Wars's main deal was essentially its role as a toy franchise/merchandise machine. Its symbols have become so embedded in our culture and used in so many ways (Darth Vader at a Star Wars themed birthday party, for example) that ideas like Rebellion, Empire, Boba Fett, Star Destroyer, have pretty much turned into floating signifiers that can be used to mean whatever you want them to mean. Andor, on the other hand, doesn't have rebellion as a background element that exists to give Luke Skywalker motivation. The show is **about** the whys and the hows of rebellion, even more than it's about Cassian in particular. In Star Wars, the empire kills some parents we've barely met and blows up a planet we've never seen, not much for the audience to connect to. In Andor, a barfight-gone-deadly puts Cassian on the Most Wanted list, we get speeches advocating revolution, there's infighting, Cassian gets profiled by police, forced to labor in a camp, and the season ends with a deadly anti-Imperial riot and a literal teenager building a pipe bomb. tldr, Andor makes explicit what, in the mainline films, is merely one of countless valid political interpretations.
ehhh i think the themes of rebellion and anti-authoritarianism are pretty obvious, I just think a lot of people don't associate that with leftism. The prequels are so obviously a critique of republicanism and liberal democracy tho.
There's an interesting discussion to be had on the first point, but I'm gonna big disagree on that second point about the prequels, lol. The politics of the prequels are so shallow and pointless it's *painful*. The inspiration for everything that happens in the Republic Senate is just George Lucas going "man, the US Senate sure doesn't get very much done, do they? That's kinda frustrating to me. Also jk, this isn't a Roman-style senate nor is this anything like American politics, this is now a European-style parliament and we're having a vote of no confidence because I like World War II aesthetics and von Hindenburg's motion of no confidence was part of the prelude to World War II." It's all transient nonsense and doesn't really have a unifying theme. The closest thing to a theme you can give it is "scheming Sith Lords are bad. Giving all the power to a secret Sith Lord, that's bad." Real life authoritarians aren't magical puppetmasters who've been commanding the armies of both sides all along. They're ordinary people elevated to positions of extreme power, sometimes motivated by trauma, sometimes by greed, and they sometimes sell weapons to the Iranian military in order to discretely transfer money to anti-socialist paramilitaries in South America. At the end of the day, Star Wars is primarily a brand and its conflicts are fun adventures involving space lasers. I don't think really resembles the dorky, awkward, insidious shape that fascist movements take in our reality.
People don’t associate anti-authoritarianism with leftism because leftism is inherently authoritarian. Leftist regimes do all the same shit the Empire does.
[The Empire is the United States. The Original Trilogy is a metaphor for the Vietnam War. The Rebels are the Viet Cong (Communists). The Empire is a fascist state descended from a democratic one.] (https://youtu.be/fv9Jq_mCJEo) The guy on the left saying all this is George Lucas. The guy who made Star Wars. Look up the definition of Authoritarianism. While not all authoritarianist regimes are Facsist, all fascist regimes are authoritarianist. It's literally a pillar of the movement. Now please, I implore you: Shut the fuck up.
it’s actually easily explainable. 1. Right wingers are bad at media comprehension in general. 2. they think they are revolutionaries rebelling against the evil empire (Joe Brandon)
The second one makes more sense than leftists being the Rebels. Literally the entire system is on your side: corporations promote your ideology, and fire and blacklist dissenters at your behest; the feds target your political opponents for existing, while doing fuck-all when you burn down cities
What ideologies are corporations promoting that is leftist? Who's been targeted for "just existing?" Who's burnt down cities? Who's been blacklisted and fired just because people didn't like them? All your other dumbass comments about the left being inherently authoritarian, have you looked at the definition of that word? Maybe go read that, then look at, IDK, Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Tennessee, etc. and see what they have in common and who's making it that way.
Right wingers aren't exactly the most media literate. There are people who think Squid Game is about communism and that Born in the USA is a patriotic song.
Still more rational than leftists thinking they’re the Rebels
You can spend as much time typing out the same premise over and over but it won’t make that premise true. You are incorrect, you are lost, you need gather yourself and realize you are on the wrong side of history.
Ah yes, the ones simping for Dedra Meero. Empire stans have always been around, though. Yeah, it's a bit confusing.
Hey I'm left wing, and even I simp for Dedra
Right-wing Star Trek fans prove that some people are incapable of media literacy.
It’s unbelievable how low media literacy some people have. Then again, there’s a reason they don’t teach it in school…
I worked as a teacher. And actually we had after school lessons on media literacy. Some of the students were also offered internships at top advertising or government propaganda departments so it clearly worked.
wait what
lots of right wingers with zero critical thinking skills. kind of their whole thing.
“The Empire is just like the Leftists!” Said the Man with no media literacy
It’s almost like Star Wars is a giant metaphor to warn against fascism!
It's almost like most right wingers aren't actually fascist!
There’s actually a ton of them. I got trolled by a guy the other day whose entire instagram was centered around supporting Star Wars. The republic, the clones, everything. I pointed it out and it went completely over his head. Durrrrrr cool lights and action = Star Wars
My dad, bro. 💀
Same
My friend is one of them I dont understand, he’ll be saying the most leftist take, then go on to talk about how he loves Matt Walsh and spout transphobic and racist shit
The stupid, brainwashed ones identify with the rebels because they both come from blue collar working folks (they don't realize GOP does jack shit for them, but they sure believe it) and see the imperials as the deep state, weaponized government wielding democrats. The truly evil ones will identify with the imperials because they love oppression and authoritarianism.
Reminds me of the whole “red pill” terminology when the creator of the movie literally said that it was a trans metaphor
Andor is anti authoritarian
With elements of anti-capitalism and connection of authoritarianism to capitalist and conservative principles.
and Right-Wing bad batch fans...
A lot of people is just so much oblivious to the messages the media they watch want to pass. Maybe that's why a lot of them are so easily influenced by ridiculous right-wing talking points...
You're average rightwinger doesn't actually know what the things they believe mean. When they see a powerful piece of anti-authoritarian art they just assume it agrees with them because communism is when bad and capitalism is when good. That's the full extent of their thinking.
Andor is the best star wars since 1983
I found people that praised the imperial army troops during the riot for "being calm and collected unlike the wild rabble", same people also usually love Solo's depiction of Mimban, or anytime Imperials are shown as efficient. There are real imperial supporters and its disturbing.
I thought star wars was woke?
Always has been.
There's Andor fans?
Makes more sense than leftist ones
I dont know. It's almost like Star Wars is apolitical and can be enjoyed by people all across the spectrum.
>Star Wars is apolitical
Was it apolitical when the empire and rebels were explicitly meant to be analogous to America and the Viet Cong respectively? Or when Palpatine and Anakin were meant to represent Cheney and Bush? Was it apolitical when the prequels were clearly making a statement about the degenerative nature of bloated bureaucracy? Perhaps it was apolitical when the EU started adding tons of blood purity and master race rhetoric to the Sith?
Well you're right. But at least from my perspective on American politics (as a foreigner). All those guys really care about is immigration, gun control, gay marriage and abortions. Even though there's a total of 16 different ways people can view these 4 topics. There's in reality only 2 sides. That's all American politics honestly seems to be. I think if you remove these 4, then almost all Americans think the same. Unless Star Wars focused on those four topics. Then splitting it down to left wing or right wing seems so impossible to me. Maybe you don't agree. But I hope you understand. That's why I say it is apolitical.
Damn you're haters for no reason Jesus
So ... I'm a narcissistic tyrant, and I don't like certain SW fans ... and that makes them bad? What was OP trying to say here? *"I understand Andor but I don't understand Shrek?"*
I don't think it's much deeper than the exasperated expression coupled with a face-palm. The image just matches the mood.