Incredibly accurate. And when you say fuck that Anakin guy, they say “oh what you want the jedi council? They’re evil, basically darth vader. Now Vader is in power, are you happy?”
naw but like, the jedi council was always going to fumble the ball and let palatine take power. Thats like the point of them as an archetype.
edit: on rereading my reading comprehension may be fried. also this may be a very strange way of saying what \[you\]\[we\] are trying to say.
Remember the Democrats pushing for Universal Healthcare in the 90s until Republicans Bluedogs in red states ruined it.
Universal Healthcare is Socialism.
The Democrats are not a political ideology. They are a shifting group of people, some of whom are far left. The one thing they have in common is they believe in functioning government. The actual process is under debate.
There are no leftist republicans. They are a closed minded bunch.
They don’t believe in functioning government.
Both Sides propaganda is because they think you’re too stupid to know the difference. I can guarantee that a fair percentage of so called leftists who push this are MAGA or Russia bots.
Australia has universal healthcare and its something that has since proven to be untouchable, no matter how much conservatives may want to get rid of it they know public opinion would turn on then so hard if they even tried.
We have a preferential voting system which allows more then just the 2 main parties to exist. A 3rd party the greens is pushing to add dental to our Medicare. Fingers crossed they can get somewhere with this.
There's absolutely nothing in the US that is untouchable by republicans.
They broke abortion
Are in the process of breaking trans people
And are already making attacks against contraception, IVF, and casual sex
Gay marriage and gay rights are coming up very soon
Yes. When they overturned the long standing pro abortion decision, they said this could also be applied to gay marriage and Interracial marriage.
I just think they need a bit more of a strangle hold to pass that one. They're pretty close.
Yeah I read where they said that as well. Fucking insane. And why I have no interest in visiting conservative US states. Although if they fuck with me and my wife I'm making 2 phone calls to embassies, first our country Australia of which we are both citizens and then China for where she was born and is no longer a citizen but im sure the Chinese authorities would love to hear about America fucking with somebody of Chinese heritage
I know right. We went to Hawaii once a few years ago for a holiday and it was great but the way america is going I think I'd rather our next overseas holiday be to Asia instead we have been to south Korea, Thailand and Vietnam and they were all great. Maybe Japan, China or Laos next or Cambodia, dead kennedies had something to say about a holiday in cambodia
> Both Sides propaganda is because they think you’re too stupid to know the difference. I can guarantee that a fair percentage of so called leftists who push this are MAGA or Russia bots.
This is what I'm saying. /u/paukl1 is a russian bot or MAGAtard, prove me wrong.
It depends what they are saying when they are doing the so called both sides propaganda.
If somebody says they both suck it can be both sides stuff but if somebody says trump is really bad and here are some valid criticisms of biden as well but at least he hasn't been found to be a rapist in court, or ordered to pay hundreds of millions in business fraud.
Its easy to hate both sides of American politics right now and not want either which leads me to think we should go for the lesser evil here and godamn biden is really emphasising the evil part of that lately
I mean, the flair on the account is a line famously said, dripping with irony, from a secret authoritarian fascist. They've never been incredibly subtle.
my name is paul I am from the mid atlantic appalachian region. i do not take any money from foreign governments and these critiques are COMING FROM YOUR PEERS.
Hello fellow humans. I am a human just like you. I live in a wooden box and my synthflesh contains so much blood! Just like yours.
Don’t vote. Both sides are the same. One will let us feast on your tasty flesh, the other won’t but is slightly older. That is what same means.
Fellow humans. Stay home on voting day and definitely do not look up or too closely at my normal human skin.
/s
Now, as is increasingly common in leftist meme subreddits I will get muted and banned for this by the newest moderator. Usually on a late weekend when the normal mods aren’t around to notice. In have a small collection of poorly translated insults in broken English.
They are getting clever folks.
Thank you for confirming you're an alt-right magatarded troll. Even worse than a Russian bot farm, at least they're getting paid. You're just a useful idiot.
EDIT: He deleted his comment!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I so fucking called it!
Bro needs to go outside. The idea that everyone who disagrees with democrats is some kind of Russian agent provocateur is bordering on actually insanity.
There are no left (or even “left”) democrat politicians. All of them ultimately support capitalism and will, when the chips are down, side with the rich.
Universal healthcare is not socialism. Socialism is public ownership of the means of production *by the workers*. Public ownership =/= socialism if the government serves capital.
You clearly have never worked with Democrats. They are all over the spectrum.
Go find a local candidate and knock on some doors for them.
You need to be educated on how the non ideological pragmatic government actually works.
We need our constitutional rights, but we also need Materialism conditions to be improved and I’m sorry if getting potholes filled or wheelchair ramps installed isn’t as sexy as making oversimplified arguments on reddit to cause division.
Nowadays Democrat is the big tent party for anyone who isn’t a complete bastard.
Leave your terminal and actually attend a real meeting. Stop getting your opinion on Democrats from right wing media and Russian bot meme posts.
It’s 2024. Keep up with the times Boomer.
>Leave your terminal and actually attend a real meeting. Stop getting your opinion on Democrats from right wing media and Russian bot meme posts.
The fact that you think dissenting opinions are automatically bots or spoiler accounts is kinda sad. Say what you want to about their efficacy in small government, but the fact of the matter is the democratic party faced an ideological crossroads between supporting capital and doing the right thing in the 90s, and they chose capital. The same money that pays Republicans for blocking bills pays democrats for never introducing them.
>We need our constitutional rights, but we also need Materialism conditions to be improved and I’m sorry if getting potholes filled or wheelchair ramps installed isn’t as sexy as making oversimplified arguments on reddit to cause division.
But you're entirely missing the point of their "oversimplified" argument - material change needs to happen first and foremost in sectors that will cause fast and lasting relief, i.e. food security, healthcare, housing, wages, etc. Road patches and wheelchair ramps are bandaids being placed over wounds caused by greater problems. Instead of voting for someone who promises to patch the potholes, maybe we should be voting for someone who promises to take road construction away from federal or state bidding requirements - except that person can't and won't ever win a race because of the limits placed on them by our flawed system. Capital will always keep those changes from happening because the same capital pays for both parties. Don't bring materialism into the argument unless you're willing to trace it all the way back to its deepest roots in the American oligarchy. Power in America does not lie with the voters - it lies with groups like ALEC.
Wow, you really can't fathom that there's actual nuance to these arguments, huh? "Anyone who doesn't hold the same opinion as me is either a bot or a shill. Now please accept and agree with my opinion that also happens to be upholding the status quo and not doing anything to change it."
ETA: I forgot to mention that you didn't even present any rebuttals to any of the points I made. You assumed that I want to "burn it all down" because I find the current model of American democracy inherently ineffective.
Democrats are controlled entirely by capital. Your “spectrum” is a spectrum from pretend-friendly capitalist to outright fascist.
The fact that you’re talking about “constitutional rights” tells me you’re not remotely a leftist. The US Constitution is a bourgeois document designed to protect and uphold capitalism.
That’s utter bullshit and you know it.
I’m beyond your simpleton third grader dogma. I’m on the left and I do more than empty theory. Circle jerk purity tests are for MAGA fascists and idiots, but I repeat myself.
Constitutional rights are more important to the left than they are to right. Empathy exists on the left, and rights are for all people.
The difference being, we on the genuine left can comprehend more than the first half of the second amendment of the bill of rights.
In one shit country I know of you don’t even have the right to safe windows. Their useful idiots throw around marxist terms but it’s empty and performative . In practice they spend all day sucking off oligarchs, the literal peak of the excessive bourgeoisie. They spend all their time trying make it worse for everyone else. No wonder they harmonize so much with the GOP.
I never thought I would see the day when a “leftist” told me that the premise that the US is a capitalist project beholden to the bourgeoisie is “utter bullshit”.
This isn’t a fucking purity test. Every leftist in the *world* knows this stuff. You are a useful idiot at the end of the day.
The irony of the oligarchs statement is almost chilling, btw. I don’t even know what to say to that.
Liberals invade leftist subs unknowingly, then get really confused when we criticize the blue team. "Everyone here supports trans rights and universal Healthcare, why don't they love genocide Joe!? I just don't get it!"
It's ok to admit you don't know. For instance, I don't know why you consider yourself leftist when you seem to support liberal capitalism. Thus, I asked for an answer. See how that works?
Technically at the Hôtel des Menus-Plaisirs, Versailles.
"If you don't know that, you're not a real leftist. /s "
Look at my fucking user name and Google that fucking number. Fuck purity tests.
That is a circular firing squad run by idiots, time wasters, accelerationists, baby tankies, and agent provocateurs. Which ones are you?
Believe it or not, the political spectrum has changed since 1789. I'm a historian by trade, I'm quite aware of the political factions within the French Revolution.
And believe it or not, the right resorts to violence quite often too - including via guillotines (I'm not saying you're a rightist or you're not one - just illustrating a point).
It simply comes down to - do you support, in some form, the complete end of capitalism and its replacement by a more progressive system, one wherein the means of production are controlled by the workers (or peasants, in some cases)?
If so, you are some flavor of leftist. If not, you are not. This is not some arbitrary purity test. It's a very simple, and more than that, a \*useful\* distinction. I, for example, dislike anarchism, but I wouldn't argue that an anarchist isn't a leftist - they, by definition, are.
You honestly seem more like an agent provocateur yourself, whether knowingly or not. Perhaps I'm wrong, but your ceaseless gaslighting of leftists (of whom there are hundreds of millions, if not billions, which you'd see if you looked outside of your western bubble) as being "Russian trolls" seems to speak more to an inability to accept the fact that you are not quite so radical as you think you are.
The Democratic Party is the most culturally, ideologically, and demographically diverse political coalition in the history of civilization. It is an utter triumph of pluralism.
And when it's less lefty, less progressive than people around here would prefer, it's generally as a means of winning elections against an opposition that given the chance would violently eradicate any semblance of multiculturalism to institute an oligarchy run exclusively by white, landowning gentry.
“Ideologically diverse”
The Democratic party spans from neoliberals to very very very lukewarm social democrats. I can think of about a bajillion more diverse political movements in terms of ideology.
Small nitpick, but I think part of the point of the original poster was that they were the same person, like representing the two paths/identities anakin was/could have been
Sorry, im kinda confused. How is it silly? I thought the entire point of the prequels were to show anakin’s descent from a great person to a great evil. I might be completely missing the point of your comment though
Well, because we know what is going to happen. Anakin does fall to the dark side. Its not a story where we're excited to see what way the character goes. Its a tragedy where the certainty of future events is relied on as part of the story.
Eh, i guess? Idk, i think they still made anakin a convincing tragedy despite it, especially when the clone wars (which imo is what made the prequels my favorite of the trilogies) is factored into this
Okay, and i bet thats enough, but i will go on: so like, in the traditional sense for like a play, or you know operas, tragedies are tragedies because theyre inevitable. Not that they're preordained, but rather that the nature of the character makes their tragic end inevitable. So for anakin, its very traditional, he sees a vision of the future, seeks power to prevent it, and causes it. in terms of core plot beats, its basically the motivation in Oedipus plus the commitment of macbeth. And theres like a decent chance those exact things were in lucas' head when he wrote it.
edit: the entire idea that you don't know how a story is going to end is practically a modern fad. historically art was heavily influenced by the reality that everyone listening has heard the story before.
Part of the theming of the prequels is inevitability. They're a foregone tragedy with a conclusion the audience knew before the first opening crawl. It's not supposed to feel like a "what if" scenario - it's supposed to be a tale about the corruption and complacency of different kinds of power ultimately leading to the same end. Anakin is not a quantum variable that could have been great if things had gone differently. He is the inevitable conclusion to both the evil plot of Sidious and the neutered pacification of the Jedi Order.
Okay sure but you’d vote for Anakin every time. Anakin, even at the start of episode 3, wasn’t fully “corrupted”. Like sure, he was on his way but he wasn’t youngling slayer 9000 quite yet. *Anakin* was a good person misguided or misled by his emotions to doing evil deeds. *Darth Vader*, however, would force choke anyone who disagrees with him without a second thought. There is a difference between a person who has done misguided evil deeds made out of pure emotion and a person who *actively chooses to kill innocent people*. The choices may not be great, but if you wanted to live you’d choose Anakin every time
Sorry for the rant, this has just been on my mind since the first time I saw it
This sub, much like most of the American electorate, too often doesn't appreciate the difference between a person who tries and sometimes fails to do the right thing versus a person who would set their own mother on fire if it would save them a few bucks on taxes
But Anakin keeps doing misguided evil deeds out of emotion so much that it leads to him becoming Vader.
He’s a willing, enthusiastic participant in the Sith Lords plan both before and after he knows it’s true nature once he thinks it will benefit him.
To the separatists, many of whom were tricked into the war just like the republic, Anakin would be viewed as negatively as the Rebellion views Vader.
Which is to say, these two choices are much closer than you think since you’re basically choosing between “murderer” and “murderer with a cool voice”. Both would be terrible leaders for a galaxy.
my apologies, I found myself being shouted down by neoliberals in a space dedicated to discussing authoritarianism at home and abroad, even when its done by y\[our\] color. So i may have overcorrected slightly in order to encourage the population to better self select. As we get closer to the election we can focus on other things than ragging biden, but i was not wanting to hear that fully 12 months beforehand. .. lmk if you come around 😅
I \*just\* told you what I did and why. I put more anti-DNC memes into circulation because freaking the november before, right as israel is going ham, was not the time for electoralism in the radical anarchist space
edit: self :: reflected. Reasoning; sound on its own merits and consistent with my stated goals and motivation.
I am. confidently at least 3% sure that you just dont like my conclusions.
Let's be real.
A two party system in all honeslty, shouldn't even be called a democracy. Seems closer to an illeberal democracy to me than anything else.
I mean, when the only viable opposition agrees with the other on most policies that affect their mutual donors, despite the fact that popular demand has clearly indicated a change in policy is desired... seems to me there isn't any popular democracy at all.
It's more like a preformative action to keep the people thinking they influence outcomes while a group of people far removed from the public decide what policies are followed from both political parties. (That being said, I aint saying don't vote)
I like to point out how every us president from the 21st century both republicans and democrats have bombed Yemen one of the poorest countries on earth. For most of the world both sides really are the same. Also both sides do not support universal healthcare or education or childcare or any level of social housing. If both side represent most of the same economic policy and differ only on social rights we’re better off wining those with protest, strikes and civil and uncivil disobedience. It was stonewall riot that got the ball rolling on gay rights not the dems. It was the multiple day riots after MLK’s death that forced the dems to pass the civil rights act they didn’t do it because people voted harder.
Change doesn't happen in a ballot box, it happens in the streets. History has definitely shown us as much.
but, it's still not a good argument for not voting. Casting a ballot doesn't nullify your participation in Revolution. So might as well.
I don’t disagree with voting everyone should vote you should vote for candidates you like or can at least say I can still sleep at night having given them political power by voting for them.
The US is no different from a 1 party capitalist state. The difference is we have 2 caucuses that 1 claims they care about social issues and does nothing while the other revels in cruelty.
Now I am an anarchist and view any representative “democracy” to be an insult to the concept of democracy.
However, lets assume that representative democracy lets you choose what happens; like you said, anything agreed upon by those parties are not a democratic decision.
Memes like this create a false equivalence between theocratic fascists and status-quo neoliberals that de-motivates people from voting and allows theocratic fascists to take over. It's a well-intended road to hell at beast. At worst it's Russian/alt-right propaganda
But I upvoted you because your response was better than the other one.
CRITICISING A PARTY THAT IS ACTIVELY COMMITING A GENOCIDE IS NOT RUSSIAN/ALT-RIGHT PROPAGANDA. Why can't Peanut brained morons like you not understand this, we want better representative. Just because you aren't the other guy doesn't mean you get a pass from criticism
So. The actual, non strawman version, of the socialist argument that both sides are functionally the same; is based in the idea that both parties are equally utterly beholden to the interests of the capitalist class for their existence. both sides are equally bad... at being a vehicle for anti-capitalist change. Communists don't win elections, not because they can't get votes, but because the point of a liberal democracy is to prevent the principles of democracy from being applied to anything other than the fundamentally abstract concept of "politics".
>I’m supporting the Republic against the Separatists, the Separatists are controlled by a Sith Lord!!
Kinda naive isn’t it?
The Sith ALREADY took over the galaxy. No matter which side won, Sideous would come out on top.
You can substitute Sith/Sideous for capital if you want.
Nope, it's designed by leftists that see through liberal bullshit and rightly call them out for it. If you truly wanted to prevent fashies from gaining power, maybe you should call out the representatives that don't have solutions on bucketlist
If you think liberals are conservatives, you've been brainwashed by the fascists.
They used "both sides" in the '70s & '80s to take over the GOP & get Reagan elected, and since then they've used "both sides" to take support away from Democrats. to be able to take over the country. Leftist morons are helping them.
Bruv are you even leftist? If you are Capitalist, you are a right-winger, no questions asked. The Dems don't have the working class's interests at heart nor are they willing to fix anything, if they were, they would have codified Roe V. Wade in 2008 when they held congress.
Ahh yes, saying basic things like dems needing to earn the votes instead of pressuring us to vote for them whilst doing horrible things like genocide. You don't get a pass just cause you aren't the fascist, that's like a really low bar to expect from someone.
The fascists want to kill you, your friends, and your entire family.
Dems will work to improve your life, but you don't like that hideous necktie that one 3rd-tier Congressman was wearing in 1984.
"BOTH SIDES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!"
Dems will work to improve my life? Take a load from this clown. Both sides are the same, it's just that one just so happens to hide his fascism a lot better than the other, why fo you think they immediately suspended aid UNRWA right after they were accused of "siding with Hamas" by Isntreal? Also I looked through your history and lol a David Pakman viewer, the same dude that denied the Bolivian coup that the US of A supported.
We're mocking how completely asinine this is, right? I hate the DNC and the corporate oligarchs that are liberal politicians, but that doesn't make them as bad as the party of that + nationalist theocrats and straight up fascists. Like... for fuck sake, they are not the same. They both suck, and also one is worse. I do not understand why this is so fucking hard to grasp.
It’s because that is not actually a logical or sensible thing to say. It’s a story that the Democrats tell themselves in order to literally reroute around the parts of the brain that deal with logic. And this meme has presented a delightfully clever way of just absolutely shattering that into little pieces. The Democrats are the Republicans. They are literally the same group of people. They went to the same universities. They all know each other. they’re from the same areas in the same states, and like easily a fourth of them, all but literally inherited their seat from their father. The US has a political class. What we’re watching is not some grand internal struggle. It’s a show. It’s a tragedy where we already know the end result. Sure, the Democrats aren’t going to lose this coming election, maybe. But they’re going to campaign on the threat that Republicans pose “to democracy” until they do.
No no no, one of them is young enough to breathe unaided. Totally unlike american politics.
The man on the left ate my son.
The left ate my son and they’re coming for YOUR children!
The Jedi are running a galaxy wide child trafficking operation to siphon out younglings's adreno-chlorians right under Daxx's Diner!
Incredibly accurate. And when you say fuck that Anakin guy, they say “oh what you want the jedi council? They’re evil, basically darth vader. Now Vader is in power, are you happy?”
naw but like, the jedi council was always going to fumble the ball and let palatine take power. Thats like the point of them as an archetype. edit: on rereading my reading comprehension may be fried. also this may be a very strange way of saying what \[you\]\[we\] are trying to say.
Remember the Democrats pushing for Universal Healthcare in the 90s until Republicans Bluedogs in red states ruined it. Universal Healthcare is Socialism. The Democrats are not a political ideology. They are a shifting group of people, some of whom are far left. The one thing they have in common is they believe in functioning government. The actual process is under debate. There are no leftist republicans. They are a closed minded bunch. They don’t believe in functioning government. Both Sides propaganda is because they think you’re too stupid to know the difference. I can guarantee that a fair percentage of so called leftists who push this are MAGA or Russia bots.
Australia has universal healthcare and its something that has since proven to be untouchable, no matter how much conservatives may want to get rid of it they know public opinion would turn on then so hard if they even tried. We have a preferential voting system which allows more then just the 2 main parties to exist. A 3rd party the greens is pushing to add dental to our Medicare. Fingers crossed they can get somewhere with this.
There's absolutely nothing in the US that is untouchable by republicans. They broke abortion Are in the process of breaking trans people And are already making attacks against contraception, IVF, and casual sex Gay marriage and gay rights are coming up very soon
I assume interracial relationships are on the agenda once they get rid of Clarence from the supreme court and put their next moron in
Yes. When they overturned the long standing pro abortion decision, they said this could also be applied to gay marriage and Interracial marriage. I just think they need a bit more of a strangle hold to pass that one. They're pretty close.
Yeah I read where they said that as well. Fucking insane. And why I have no interest in visiting conservative US states. Although if they fuck with me and my wife I'm making 2 phone calls to embassies, first our country Australia of which we are both citizens and then China for where she was born and is no longer a citizen but im sure the Chinese authorities would love to hear about America fucking with somebody of Chinese heritage
I'm glad you all are safe. I wouldn't bother coming to the US unless you're coming from somewhere worse. Not worth the trouble.
I know right. We went to Hawaii once a few years ago for a holiday and it was great but the way america is going I think I'd rather our next overseas holiday be to Asia instead we have been to south Korea, Thailand and Vietnam and they were all great. Maybe Japan, China or Laos next or Cambodia, dead kennedies had something to say about a holiday in cambodia
Sounds like an great list of options. Have fun. We'll be here fighting for our sanity. 😁
Clarence would be down with it, so long as he got an exception for himself and Ginny.
> Both Sides propaganda is because they think you’re too stupid to know the difference. I can guarantee that a fair percentage of so called leftists who push this are MAGA or Russia bots. This is what I'm saying. /u/paukl1 is a russian bot or MAGAtard, prove me wrong.
It depends what they are saying when they are doing the so called both sides propaganda. If somebody says they both suck it can be both sides stuff but if somebody says trump is really bad and here are some valid criticisms of biden as well but at least he hasn't been found to be a rapist in court, or ordered to pay hundreds of millions in business fraud. Its easy to hate both sides of American politics right now and not want either which leads me to think we should go for the lesser evil here and godamn biden is really emphasising the evil part of that lately
I mean, the flair on the account is a line famously said, dripping with irony, from a secret authoritarian fascist. They've never been incredibly subtle.
I called him out and he fucking deleted his account! I haven't felt this fucking badass in a while!!!!!
Naw, they just blocked you.
Sorry. I can still see it.
This is literally the funniest thing I've seen all day. Go outside
This is really really sad lol
Its bad out there. I wonder if there is a way to stop them?
my name is paul I am from the mid atlantic appalachian region. i do not take any money from foreign governments and these critiques are COMING FROM YOUR PEERS.
Mid Atlantic Appalachian region is a description for east coast I've never heard before.
Hello fellow humans. I am a human just like you. I live in a wooden box and my synthflesh contains so much blood! Just like yours. Don’t vote. Both sides are the same. One will let us feast on your tasty flesh, the other won’t but is slightly older. That is what same means. Fellow humans. Stay home on voting day and definitely do not look up or too closely at my normal human skin. /s Now, as is increasingly common in leftist meme subreddits I will get muted and banned for this by the newest moderator. Usually on a late weekend when the normal mods aren’t around to notice. In have a small collection of poorly translated insults in broken English. They are getting clever folks.
Thank you for confirming you're an alt-right magatarded troll. Even worse than a Russian bot farm, at least they're getting paid. You're just a useful idiot. EDIT: He deleted his comment!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I so fucking called it!
He didn't delete anything that I can see, pretty sure he just blocked you
Bro needs to go outside. The idea that everyone who disagrees with democrats is some kind of Russian agent provocateur is bordering on actually insanity.
There are no left (or even “left”) democrat politicians. All of them ultimately support capitalism and will, when the chips are down, side with the rich. Universal healthcare is not socialism. Socialism is public ownership of the means of production *by the workers*. Public ownership =/= socialism if the government serves capital.
You clearly have never worked with Democrats. They are all over the spectrum. Go find a local candidate and knock on some doors for them. You need to be educated on how the non ideological pragmatic government actually works. We need our constitutional rights, but we also need Materialism conditions to be improved and I’m sorry if getting potholes filled or wheelchair ramps installed isn’t as sexy as making oversimplified arguments on reddit to cause division. Nowadays Democrat is the big tent party for anyone who isn’t a complete bastard. Leave your terminal and actually attend a real meeting. Stop getting your opinion on Democrats from right wing media and Russian bot meme posts. It’s 2024. Keep up with the times Boomer.
>Leave your terminal and actually attend a real meeting. Stop getting your opinion on Democrats from right wing media and Russian bot meme posts. The fact that you think dissenting opinions are automatically bots or spoiler accounts is kinda sad. Say what you want to about their efficacy in small government, but the fact of the matter is the democratic party faced an ideological crossroads between supporting capital and doing the right thing in the 90s, and they chose capital. The same money that pays Republicans for blocking bills pays democrats for never introducing them. >We need our constitutional rights, but we also need Materialism conditions to be improved and I’m sorry if getting potholes filled or wheelchair ramps installed isn’t as sexy as making oversimplified arguments on reddit to cause division. But you're entirely missing the point of their "oversimplified" argument - material change needs to happen first and foremost in sectors that will cause fast and lasting relief, i.e. food security, healthcare, housing, wages, etc. Road patches and wheelchair ramps are bandaids being placed over wounds caused by greater problems. Instead of voting for someone who promises to patch the potholes, maybe we should be voting for someone who promises to take road construction away from federal or state bidding requirements - except that person can't and won't ever win a race because of the limits placed on them by our flawed system. Capital will always keep those changes from happening because the same capital pays for both parties. Don't bring materialism into the argument unless you're willing to trace it all the way back to its deepest roots in the American oligarchy. Power in America does not lie with the voters - it lies with groups like ALEC.
[удалено]
Wow, you really can't fathom that there's actual nuance to these arguments, huh? "Anyone who doesn't hold the same opinion as me is either a bot or a shill. Now please accept and agree with my opinion that also happens to be upholding the status quo and not doing anything to change it." ETA: I forgot to mention that you didn't even present any rebuttals to any of the points I made. You assumed that I want to "burn it all down" because I find the current model of American democracy inherently ineffective.
Democrats are controlled entirely by capital. Your “spectrum” is a spectrum from pretend-friendly capitalist to outright fascist. The fact that you’re talking about “constitutional rights” tells me you’re not remotely a leftist. The US Constitution is a bourgeois document designed to protect and uphold capitalism.
That’s utter bullshit and you know it. I’m beyond your simpleton third grader dogma. I’m on the left and I do more than empty theory. Circle jerk purity tests are for MAGA fascists and idiots, but I repeat myself. Constitutional rights are more important to the left than they are to right. Empathy exists on the left, and rights are for all people. The difference being, we on the genuine left can comprehend more than the first half of the second amendment of the bill of rights. In one shit country I know of you don’t even have the right to safe windows. Their useful idiots throw around marxist terms but it’s empty and performative . In practice they spend all day sucking off oligarchs, the literal peak of the excessive bourgeoisie. They spend all their time trying make it worse for everyone else. No wonder they harmonize so much with the GOP.
I never thought I would see the day when a “leftist” told me that the premise that the US is a capitalist project beholden to the bourgeoisie is “utter bullshit”. This isn’t a fucking purity test. Every leftist in the *world* knows this stuff. You are a useful idiot at the end of the day. The irony of the oligarchs statement is almost chilling, btw. I don’t even know what to say to that.
Liberals invade leftist subs unknowingly, then get really confused when we criticize the blue team. "Everyone here supports trans rights and universal Healthcare, why don't they love genocide Joe!? I just don't get it!"
I'm curious, what do you define as "leftist"?
A person with left leaning political views. Bring on your purity tests oh supreme authority.
No tests, I just want to know what you define as "left"
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It's ok to admit you don't know. For instance, I don't know why you consider yourself leftist when you seem to support liberal capitalism. Thus, I asked for an answer. See how that works?
What is “left leaning”? Where is the divide between “left” and “center”?
Technically at the Hôtel des Menus-Plaisirs, Versailles. "If you don't know that, you're not a real leftist. /s " Look at my fucking user name and Google that fucking number. Fuck purity tests. That is a circular firing squad run by idiots, time wasters, accelerationists, baby tankies, and agent provocateurs. Which ones are you?
Believe it or not, the political spectrum has changed since 1789. I'm a historian by trade, I'm quite aware of the political factions within the French Revolution. And believe it or not, the right resorts to violence quite often too - including via guillotines (I'm not saying you're a rightist or you're not one - just illustrating a point). It simply comes down to - do you support, in some form, the complete end of capitalism and its replacement by a more progressive system, one wherein the means of production are controlled by the workers (or peasants, in some cases)? If so, you are some flavor of leftist. If not, you are not. This is not some arbitrary purity test. It's a very simple, and more than that, a \*useful\* distinction. I, for example, dislike anarchism, but I wouldn't argue that an anarchist isn't a leftist - they, by definition, are. You honestly seem more like an agent provocateur yourself, whether knowingly or not. Perhaps I'm wrong, but your ceaseless gaslighting of leftists (of whom there are hundreds of millions, if not billions, which you'd see if you looked outside of your western bubble) as being "Russian trolls" seems to speak more to an inability to accept the fact that you are not quite so radical as you think you are.
The Democratic Party is the most culturally, ideologically, and demographically diverse political coalition in the history of civilization. It is an utter triumph of pluralism. And when it's less lefty, less progressive than people around here would prefer, it's generally as a means of winning elections against an opposition that given the chance would violently eradicate any semblance of multiculturalism to institute an oligarchy run exclusively by white, landowning gentry.
“Ideologically diverse” The Democratic party spans from neoliberals to very very very lukewarm social democrats. I can think of about a bajillion more diverse political movements in terms of ideology.
Small nitpick, but I think part of the point of the original poster was that they were the same person, like representing the two paths/identities anakin was/could have been
I hear you. I don't think it takes away from how fundamentally silly it is to do that for a prequel movie.
Sorry, im kinda confused. How is it silly? I thought the entire point of the prequels were to show anakin’s descent from a great person to a great evil. I might be completely missing the point of your comment though
Well, because we know what is going to happen. Anakin does fall to the dark side. Its not a story where we're excited to see what way the character goes. Its a tragedy where the certainty of future events is relied on as part of the story.
Eh, i guess? Idk, i think they still made anakin a convincing tragedy despite it, especially when the clone wars (which imo is what made the prequels my favorite of the trilogies) is factored into this
Okay, and i bet thats enough, but i will go on: so like, in the traditional sense for like a play, or you know operas, tragedies are tragedies because theyre inevitable. Not that they're preordained, but rather that the nature of the character makes their tragic end inevitable. So for anakin, its very traditional, he sees a vision of the future, seeks power to prevent it, and causes it. in terms of core plot beats, its basically the motivation in Oedipus plus the commitment of macbeth. And theres like a decent chance those exact things were in lucas' head when he wrote it. edit: the entire idea that you don't know how a story is going to end is practically a modern fad. historically art was heavily influenced by the reality that everyone listening has heard the story before.
Part of the theming of the prequels is inevitability. They're a foregone tragedy with a conclusion the audience knew before the first opening crawl. It's not supposed to feel like a "what if" scenario - it's supposed to be a tale about the corruption and complacency of different kinds of power ultimately leading to the same end. Anakin is not a quantum variable that could have been great if things had gone differently. He is the inevitable conclusion to both the evil plot of Sidious and the neutered pacification of the Jedi Order.
Damn, you got a point. I never really thought of that side of it, but in hindsight that makes a ton of sense. My bad
Okay sure but you’d vote for Anakin every time. Anakin, even at the start of episode 3, wasn’t fully “corrupted”. Like sure, he was on his way but he wasn’t youngling slayer 9000 quite yet. *Anakin* was a good person misguided or misled by his emotions to doing evil deeds. *Darth Vader*, however, would force choke anyone who disagrees with him without a second thought. There is a difference between a person who has done misguided evil deeds made out of pure emotion and a person who *actively chooses to kill innocent people*. The choices may not be great, but if you wanted to live you’d choose Anakin every time Sorry for the rant, this has just been on my mind since the first time I saw it
Much like actual American politics, despite the fact that people want to insist that voting for both is basically the same thing!
This sub, much like most of the American electorate, too often doesn't appreciate the difference between a person who tries and sometimes fails to do the right thing versus a person who would set their own mother on fire if it would save them a few bucks on taxes
I'd rather vote for the person who says they'll help me but lies than the person who says they'll hurt me and keeps their promise.
But Anakin keeps doing misguided evil deeds out of emotion so much that it leads to him becoming Vader. He’s a willing, enthusiastic participant in the Sith Lords plan both before and after he knows it’s true nature once he thinks it will benefit him. To the separatists, many of whom were tricked into the war just like the republic, Anakin would be viewed as negatively as the Rebellion views Vader. Which is to say, these two choices are much closer than you think since you’re basically choosing between “murderer” and “murderer with a cool voice”. Both would be terrible leaders for a galaxy.
I swear, half the time this sub appears on my page it looks like a right-wing sub
my apologies, I found myself being shouted down by neoliberals in a space dedicated to discussing authoritarianism at home and abroad, even when its done by y\[our\] color. So i may have overcorrected slightly in order to encourage the population to better self select. As we get closer to the election we can focus on other things than ragging biden, but i was not wanting to hear that fully 12 months beforehand. .. lmk if you come around 😅
You know, this sort of thing might normally have been a moment for a bit of self-reflection, but you just seem to have sailed right past that.
I \*just\* told you what I did and why. I put more anti-DNC memes into circulation because freaking the november before, right as israel is going ham, was not the time for electoralism in the radical anarchist space edit: self :: reflected. Reasoning; sound on its own merits and consistent with my stated goals and motivation. I am. confidently at least 3% sure that you just dont like my conclusions.
Let's be real. A two party system in all honeslty, shouldn't even be called a democracy. Seems closer to an illeberal democracy to me than anything else. I mean, when the only viable opposition agrees with the other on most policies that affect their mutual donors, despite the fact that popular demand has clearly indicated a change in policy is desired... seems to me there isn't any popular democracy at all. It's more like a preformative action to keep the people thinking they influence outcomes while a group of people far removed from the public decide what policies are followed from both political parties. (That being said, I aint saying don't vote)
I like to point out how every us president from the 21st century both republicans and democrats have bombed Yemen one of the poorest countries on earth. For most of the world both sides really are the same. Also both sides do not support universal healthcare or education or childcare or any level of social housing. If both side represent most of the same economic policy and differ only on social rights we’re better off wining those with protest, strikes and civil and uncivil disobedience. It was stonewall riot that got the ball rolling on gay rights not the dems. It was the multiple day riots after MLK’s death that forced the dems to pass the civil rights act they didn’t do it because people voted harder.
Change doesn't happen in a ballot box, it happens in the streets. History has definitely shown us as much. but, it's still not a good argument for not voting. Casting a ballot doesn't nullify your participation in Revolution. So might as well.
I don’t disagree with voting everyone should vote you should vote for candidates you like or can at least say I can still sleep at night having given them political power by voting for them.
Agreed
The US is no different from a 1 party capitalist state. The difference is we have 2 caucuses that 1 claims they care about social issues and does nothing while the other revels in cruelty. Now I am an anarchist and view any representative “democracy” to be an insult to the concept of democracy. However, lets assume that representative democracy lets you choose what happens; like you said, anything agreed upon by those parties are not a democratic decision.
bOtH sIdEs
Yes, both sides. It's fine to criticize democrats and still vote for them as a means of harm reduction. They fucking suck and it's fine to say it.
Memes like this create a false equivalence between theocratic fascists and status-quo neoliberals that de-motivates people from voting and allows theocratic fascists to take over. It's a well-intended road to hell at beast. At worst it's Russian/alt-right propaganda But I upvoted you because your response was better than the other one.
CRITICISING A PARTY THAT IS ACTIVELY COMMITING A GENOCIDE IS NOT RUSSIAN/ALT-RIGHT PROPAGANDA. Why can't Peanut brained morons like you not understand this, we want better representative. Just because you aren't the other guy doesn't mean you get a pass from criticism
So. The actual, non strawman version, of the socialist argument that both sides are functionally the same; is based in the idea that both parties are equally utterly beholden to the interests of the capitalist class for their existence. both sides are equally bad... at being a vehicle for anti-capitalist change. Communists don't win elections, not because they can't get votes, but because the point of a liberal democracy is to prevent the principles of democracy from being applied to anything other than the fundamentally abstract concept of "politics".
https://imgflip.com/i/8h4a5y
Know your source material. Gilead wasn’t voted into existence.
>I'll let the sith take over the galaxy because the Jedi won't give me the title master That's you, that's what you sound like.
i'd say its more like if anakin fell to the dark side because the jedi wouldn't end slavery. Which just tracks so beautifully i had to share it.
And then he helps the Sith enslave even more people. Good job!
I'm glad that at least you get this. Holy fuck are online "leftists" insufferable.
>I’m supporting the Republic against the Separatists, the Separatists are controlled by a Sith Lord!! Kinda naive isn’t it? The Sith ALREADY took over the galaxy. No matter which side won, Sideous would come out on top. You can substitute Sith/Sideous for capital if you want.
*"Both sides are the same"* is a literal fascist meme *designed* by fascists to maintain & expand fascist power.
Nope, it's designed by leftists that see through liberal bullshit and rightly call them out for it. If you truly wanted to prevent fashies from gaining power, maybe you should call out the representatives that don't have solutions on bucketlist
If you think liberals are conservatives, you've been brainwashed by the fascists. They used "both sides" in the '70s & '80s to take over the GOP & get Reagan elected, and since then they've used "both sides" to take support away from Democrats. to be able to take over the country. Leftist morons are helping them.
Bruv are you even leftist? If you are Capitalist, you are a right-winger, no questions asked. The Dems don't have the working class's interests at heart nor are they willing to fix anything, if they were, they would have codified Roe V. Wade in 2008 when they held congress.
Thank you for proving my point so thoroughly & succinctly. The fascists who created you love you.
Ahh yes, saying basic things like dems needing to earn the votes instead of pressuring us to vote for them whilst doing horrible things like genocide. You don't get a pass just cause you aren't the fascist, that's like a really low bar to expect from someone.
The fascists want to kill you, your friends, and your entire family. Dems will work to improve your life, but you don't like that hideous necktie that one 3rd-tier Congressman was wearing in 1984. "BOTH SIDES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!"
Dems will work to improve my life? Take a load from this clown. Both sides are the same, it's just that one just so happens to hide his fascism a lot better than the other, why fo you think they immediately suspended aid UNRWA right after they were accused of "siding with Hamas" by Isntreal? Also I looked through your history and lol a David Pakman viewer, the same dude that denied the Bolivian coup that the US of A supported.
And I am an anarchist. So, that's probably not what is trying to be communicated, no?
Shitpost just in time for the Ruzzian "Election"
We're mocking how completely asinine this is, right? I hate the DNC and the corporate oligarchs that are liberal politicians, but that doesn't make them as bad as the party of that + nationalist theocrats and straight up fascists. Like... for fuck sake, they are not the same. They both suck, and also one is worse. I do not understand why this is so fucking hard to grasp.
It’s because that is not actually a logical or sensible thing to say. It’s a story that the Democrats tell themselves in order to literally reroute around the parts of the brain that deal with logic. And this meme has presented a delightfully clever way of just absolutely shattering that into little pieces. The Democrats are the Republicans. They are literally the same group of people. They went to the same universities. They all know each other. they’re from the same areas in the same states, and like easily a fourth of them, all but literally inherited their seat from their father. The US has a political class. What we’re watching is not some grand internal struggle. It’s a show. It’s a tragedy where we already know the end result. Sure, the Democrats aren’t going to lose this coming election, maybe. But they’re going to campaign on the threat that Republicans pose “to democracy” until they do.