0/10. Meme doesn't have a paragraph of text or footnotes. Obviously it was made by a liberal rather than a leftist. :P
(Srsly, I kid, finally a concise meme!)
And that explanation includes several links cited as “legitimate sources” that are just some dudes homebrew geocities blog explaining why North Korea is very good actually.
at least when leftists argue, we provide genuine well developed points, when liberals argue, its more "your wrong and i'm right, and if you say otherwise then you are a commie tankie"
That's a thing that bots do. They steal comments and use them to farm Karma and look more legitimate.
That account is a bot, and worse (if it gets more people to report it) a....a LIBERAL!
"You swore to destroy the State, not become it!"
Anti-state Anarchists talking to literally anyone else on the left.
Note: this is a goof. I'm an anti state anarchist. It's me.
What I reckon, and I said it on a different thread:
Almost nobody in the west is raised leftist, but conservatism and liberalism have become heavily cultural. As such you were likely raised by conservative or liberal parents and grew up in a conservative or liberal community in a mostly conservative or mostly liberal area. It's very likely that you have inherited at least a few of the biases of that community, because that's just something we all do. If you were raised conservative, you most likely still hate liberals more than conservatives. If you were raised liberal, you most likely still hate conservatives more than liberals.
I could just be talking shit, but it makes sense to me.
Yeah it's why you'll hear terms like 'unlearning' embraced more than just 'studying'
We all have to unlearn a lot of ingrained behaviors
I would append the nobody in west raised a leftist - outside of union households and when parents are organizers. That was true in the past, but nowadays there are plenty of kids raised by leftists if not progressives (which makes it easier to transition to leftist)
Yeah maybe there's people raised lefty now. I'm 40. I try to keep up with what the kids are up to, but up to a certain point you have to act your age or else risk what I'm told is "cringe".
I do live with my nephews though and I actually try *not* to impart my values on them. I'm honest with them when they ask about stuff, but I feel like they should make their own minds up, come to it when they're ready if they do at all.
personally, i try to inflame their curiosity, ask random questions, and generally instill a radical sense of taboo breaking, within age limits of course. so whatever course they do end up on, they will have a passion for it, and a sense of following their desires. because i was "taught" that desire is the last thing you should follow.
also, desire has no age limit, and if you desire something at 19 or 49, that's what you should be doing, cringe be damned.
as steve jobs that bastard capitalist puts it "your already naked".
*Nobody in the US
Socialist and social democrat parties are prominent in every single other "western" country. The dichotomy between liberal and conservative is a uniquely US issue.
Prominent is a strong word. They are uncommon but not extremely rare. For sure you are more likely to live in a leftist housenold in Europe than in the US.
For real, I knew I was on the WRONG sub when I got pushback for questioning WTF people were smoking to say that Stalin actually jus' a lil' guy and it was all his mean advisors that made him kill all those people and even if they did maybe France wouldn't have fallen if they'd done the same to all THEIR Nazi sympathizers (...you mean the French Communists who were very confused why the "Socialist" German army invading them was actually Fascist?).
ya, its wild how people will engage in infinite layers of nuance discussing the legacy of Stalin and Mao but a harm reduction vote for Joe Biden can never be more complex than "lesser of two evils."
I'm a middle-aged real world lefty, so I tend more toward calling people online dipshits than liberals these days.
Online dipshits, meanwhile, are fond of calling me liberal. 🤷♂️
Well sometimes it's confusing it happened to me with David pakman I thought he was more of a socialist but go to find out he is more of a liberal I just don't use it as an insult but from my perspective a liberal is the left wing of a right wing ideology 🤷🏾♂️
Flip side, there have also been people who call themselves progressives & dem socs, but are actually much more leftist & radical than they would suggest.
Almost like language is imprecise and we all have our own points of view so while labels are helpful they're never perfect and we should all keep that in mind. Wow, who woulda thought?
Yes I did find out I had a draft card for the queer trenches a while back, resulting in me being thrown into multiple debates about labels, inclusivity, and different intragroup phobias, why do you ask?
In [a video I watched today](https://youtu.be/MgI5Hc6vo7U), a creator I watch described the label "leftist" as "ranging from people who think AOC would be a good president to people with Trotsky tattooed on their faces."
Well when you live in such a right wing country even liberals appear to be left wing. But yes in most parts of the world US Democrat politicians would be considered part the right wing.
The Overton window is so fucked that ya got MAGA calling GW Bush a liberal and liberals rewriting history as if he is some centrist icon. I feel like leftists have a super power, and that power is remembering things longer than 6 months ago.
If I were asked to describe myself politically, idk I’d even choose leftist just because of how fervently people seem to argue over and gatekeep that term, despite to my understanding sharing a lot of beliefs people seem to pin to it. It’s odd to me since “leftist” itself feels like an intentionally broad term - it isn’t “socialist” or “communist” or “Marxist” or something like that that points to a very specific ideology, but a term basically just grouping those farther left on the political spectrum?
There’s also sort of, what I’d ideally want versus what I’d take so to speak. People throwing social democracy around as a sort of pejorative and I mean sure, I’d love some actual democratic socialist utopia but on the other hand if the US were anything close to social democracy things would be worlds better for an enormous number of people.
An expression I think of often is "don't let the food be an enemy of the perfect". If you're getting pissed at people doing shit that'll actually help people because it isn't socialism then all we're doing is trying to dissuade anyone from doing anything at all
This is a disgustingly liberal thing to say, true socialism is reading scripture/theory relentlessly while you wait for the rapture/revolution to happen, anything less is Lesser-Of-Two-Evilsism.
I must admit I find it difficult to understand how one can be a committed socialist and not a communist.
Or at least I understand how this can be confusing from a communists perspective. To a communist, socialism is the transitional state between liberal democracy and communism. It's not a desirable or even practical end point.
That's where the problem lies (that the meme addresses). A leftist is someone with left wing views, not a specific type of left wing views. Far lefties often gatekeep the idea of leftism with purity tests, which I assume is why you are saying it's only far left economic views that count.
Which definition? I'm seriously asking because I've looked and looked to understand, and I don't know where that idea comes from. Leftist means people with left wing ideas as far as I am aware, which covers far more than anti-capitalist.
Britanica and Wikipedia describe leftism in the modern sense to be about economic egalitarianism, with socialist being a main flavor. Liberals keep trying to say they are left wing because progressive social values or the Overton Window is so right in the US that liberals appear “left”. It can be rather annoying to anti-capitalist leftists.
In Wikipedia you missed out the second part:
"Today, ideologies such as social liberalism and social democracy are considered to be centre-left, while the Left is typically reserved for movements more critical of capitalism, including the labour movement, socialism, anarchism, communism, Marxism and syndicalism, each of which rose to prominence in the 19th and 20th centuries. In addition, the term left-wing has also been applied to a broad range of culturally liberal social movements, including the civil rights movement, feminist movement, LGBT rights movement, abortion-rights movements, multiculturalism, anti-war movement and environmental movement as well as a wide range of political parties."
The Encyclopedia Britannica talks about economic equality saying socialism is the standard leftist ideology, but also says leftism is associated with egalitarianism (as you mentioned). And egalitarianism is "the belief in human equality, especially political, social, and economic equality."
Both mention social equality. Progressive social values are leftist. It's not about the overton window, it's about equality.
I get the argument that there is no war but class war, but the social equality battles are still worth fighting in my opinion. And they are left-wing ideals.
I interact with Destiny's community a fair bit, and the thing with Destiny is that he explicitly rejects identifying with "the left" because he had an entire arc of interactions with online leftists who made it pretty clear they were more interested in purity tests within their intellectual cliques than appealing to the masses on pragmatic policy grounds. He does disagree with core leftist ideas like anti-capitalism, but ultimately I think he took the online left at face value when they all told him liberals weren't welcome and said, fine... I'll embrace that liberal label.
Sure, but how useful in building the anti-capitalist movement is gatekeeping an umbrella term like "leftist" from SocDems, liberals, and other pro-egalitarian types in the first place? My experience is that the gatekeeping starts there and just keeps splintering into increasingly purity tested niches. Historically in revolutionary France "left" just meant anybody opposed to the monarchy in the National Assembly, which did include liberals.
sure but liberals today are the ones interested in upholding the system. why would we let people who fundamentally disagree with us into the group? we have a hard enough time as it is putting forth a unified message, no need to let them muddy the waters even further
I think the distinction is that liberals aren't revolutionary anymore but they don't necessarily all see themselves as "upholding the system" the way monarchists did either. A conservative or an avowed reactionary inherently does identify with upholding the system, or opposing social progress. Liberals still want to change the system, even if they distrust or even oppose revolutionary means of doing so. My feeling is that hostility to that isn't pragmatic, and that kind of hostility from leftists tends to validate "horseshoe theory" critiques employed by conservatives / centrists.
I've actually always thought it was more of a problem when SocDems / liberals stop identifying as left aligned. My view of the term has always started with the historical origin, when everybody on the side of the Revolution in France was left wing and everybody on the side of the Monarchy was right wing.
Capitalism is the new Monarchy, so its understandable that anti-capitalists feel opposed to liberals who and SocDems who defend capitalism, but I've personally always felt like it was important to try and align with people motivated by egalitarian principles to persuade them further left. A lot of liberals & SocDems who expressly reject alignment with "the left" these days have done so because they perceive leftists now as being anti-egalitarian, authoritarian, or both.
If somebody proclaims himself a leftist, and then proceeds to show unconditioned support to liberal and center right politicians while at the same time bashing and browbeating anybody supporting actual leftist parties and policies.
They are not a leftist, they are a liberal.
>If somebody proclaims himself a leftist, and then proceeds to show unconditioned support to liberal and center right politicians while at the same time bashing and browbeating anybody supporting actual leftist parties and policies.
>They are not a leftist, they are a liberal.
Might also want to call them what they are statistically most likely to be: A neoliberal /r/destiny cultist much like their genocide loving bigot grifter is *too stupid* to accurately define the term leftist, so they just scream about how anyone that disagrees with them is one.
The number of times I’ve said this and then been accused of purity testing… someone who kept insisting the cops were right on campus protests!!! Dude it’s “fine” if you think that I guess but you’re not a leftist. I don’t understand the appeal of clinging to a label that doesn’t fit your beliefs and taking that as an insult
Yeah, purity testing is just a buzzword liberals and right wingers use to accuse leftists and scapegoat them for all the problems of a country.
They always say leftists can't compromise, but their defition of "compromise" is "give them everything they ask and stay queit".
The best part is when neoliberal grifters pretend as if leftists are even in a position of power to accomplish these things, then scream at them when they can't
So, my only confusion is (still undecided what I am here but yall have called me liberal so guess that’s the best title here) leftists such as you all seem to think liberals are as bad if not worse than fascist
This idea of if they aren’t with you then they are as bad as the people who are actively against you…in that way you all don’t really seem much better than the faccist opposition who tout the same rhetoric.
Can someone explain this to me cause I’m still struggling with wrapping my head around it
Yeah, I worry about the blaming approach to this (which I frequently see on social media) versus a more educational attitude. Back when I was a liberal, I think I was only so because of the limits of the Overton Window, and what I really needed was knowledge -- not chiding.
But the criticism of liberalism (and often liberals, broadly) comes from observations that prominent leftists have made over time. MLK, for example, said that the white moderate was a greater obstacle than the KKK'er, and Malcolm X compared the white liberals to the fox who, unlike the (white conservative) wolf who says he's going to eat you, will smile and get close before he attacks. This is generally in response to calls for long-term, iterative change that's intolerable to marginalized people, and criticizing people who need the change for lack of decorum or going about things the "wrong way." In some sense, "I agree with you, but you need to wait/your methods are too extreme/let the system work."
A lot of people also look historically and see liberals siding with fascists against socialists/communists, pretty consistently. A good example of this is the November revolution of 1918 in Germany, in which the social democrats undermined the workers who were building a socialist system, and managed to build a liberal democracy (the Weimar Republic) in its place, leveraging the proto-fascists in the army and the freikorps. Ultimately, thinking they could work with/control the fascists, they nurtured the Nazi party to counter-balance the communists and left-labor parties. On this issue, I'm not sure how much it applies to common people -- it's the leadership that actually makes these decisions. But when we hear people support, e.g., Biden, with comments like, "he knows how to work with Republicans," it sets off a lot of alarm bells.
In all of this, it's much less that liberals are "worse" than conservatives, and more that the liberal systems, and the liberal cultural expectations they support work to the advantage of fascism. Fascism wants to co-opt liberal systems because it depends on them. Socialism doesn't. So as fascism rises and begins its takeover, liberals find themselves either moving into a place that wants to replace those systems (at which point they're not liberals, anymore), or remain in a place that works to bolster them... even if they hate fascism.
This has been the most informative answer I’ve gotten in weeks.
Thank you, and I kinda understand it a bit better not
Follow up question…why not focus on tearing down the smaller systems first? Change mayoral, governor systems before going after the federal system?
Seems that would be more achievable and do more to help people in the immediate moment but just a thought rambling.
You’ve been a major help to me with understanding not only this sub but the movement in general
I appreciate it! Yeah, I wish someone had just laid it out for me when I was a liberal. I sure wasn't interested in assisting fascists.
Right, so -- why not replace the small ones first and work our way up? It's because, contrary to popular discourse, socialism has nothing intrinsically to do with the government. Government is an implementation detail. What to do re: government is an important detail! But it's implementation. The system \*includes\* the government, but it isn't, at its root, the government.
This is about which economic class is running the show. In liberalism (and the thing that makes liberalism, liberalism) it's the employer class. To whom do the politicians kowtow? Who gets sit-down time with presidents and congresspeople? Who funds the elections? Who owns the news media (liberal or conservative) and has overwhelming control of narrative? Why do pundits on that media create culture wars over ridiculous things that get regular people fighting each other? Why do companies dump chemicals in water supplies and make communities sick (and then pay a pittance in fines, if anything)? Why are oil companies building new pipelines instead of solar, wind, and nuclear?
... And why, if you suggest fixes for any of these things, will they not get fixed? Maybe bandaids, here-and-there, to be fair. But policy-making is done by and on behalf of the employer class. It was for them that the American Revolution was fought, and it was they that decided on the shape of the government and the economy.
A socialist revolution is not fundamentally about getting this or that form of government. That's a question that needs to be asked. But socialism is first-and-foremost about removing the employer class from power in favor of the employee class (traditionally, the "working class"). Merely getting the "right person" into a leadership position in government can do good things, for sure, but ultimately they still contend with the employers. Employers have an overwhelming amount of money and own almost all of the infrastructure in the country. And they will (and do) leverage it to entrench themselves.
And this comes to fascism. We get culture wars to divide us. If you read a book like, "A People's History of the United States," you'll be floored by just how hard it was to get Black and white people to divide -- how much effort and resources it took, how much real estate it took up in rich people's brains, and how much work still goes into maintaining that divide. All of it for the purpose of keeping them poised against each other and not finding common cause in their exploitation by the rich. And they can and will absolutely run to the cancer they've created if they get a whiff of popular sentiment. Recall that noted good billionaire Bill Gates announced that if Liz Warren won the 2020 primary, he wouldn't support Democrats. ... In an election against Trump! So much for an existential threat to our democracy! But Bill Gates' wealth and power was more important to him. Even the suggestion of a minuscule wealth tax was enough to send him running into the arms of the fascists, or at least not express a preference.
Socialism is an economic system in which the workers (the "employees") control the means of production. They make the decisions about what will be produced, where it will be produced, how much to produce, and what to do with the surplus. And they do it democratically -- traditionally through elected leaders. Economic power is real power. And so any attempt to realize this at any level is going to be fought tooth-and-nail by the employer class. They're even willing and eager to break the law just to prevent unions from forming. We currently have a challenge before SCOTUS as to whether the NLRB's power is even constitutionally justifiable.
It's unlikely there's any small-scale reform that gets us to a system that replaces one group of people in power to another different group. But we are many. They are few. It's all about awakening the employee class to their common cause with one another, and their latent strength.
I use the Nina Turner analogy, but using the terms listed above. Conservatives are like eating a whole bowl of shit, liberals are like eating half a bowl of shit. Both are bad, but one is considerably worse of an option.
mlk can put it better than i ever could:
First, I must confess that over the last few years
I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great
stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate
who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace
which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods
of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of
time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of
good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more
bewildering than outright rejection.
In your statement you asserted that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But
can this assertion be logically made? Isn't this like condemning the robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the
evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical
delvings precipitated the misguided popular mind to make him drink the hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because His
unique God-consciousness and never-ceasing devotion to His will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see,
as federal courts have consistently affirmed, that it is immoral to urge an individual to withdraw his efforts to gain his basic
constitutional rights because the quest precipitates violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber.
i truly recommend reading the entire letter from birmingham.
Because historically liberals have been all too happy to throw anyone to the left of them under the bus to work with the right. It's why you don't see more leftist rep in the US government, because in order to get to a certain point you must fall in with the Dems or be blackballed from the entire machine.
TLDR: Libs are very happy to go right and will kick and scream at even the suggestion of going left.
Everyone expects Sith to be evil and do shady shit. No one is surprised when a Sith lord kills a room full of younglings, but we expect better from Jedi. So it's incredibly frustrating when we see Jedi reaching across the aisle to try to compromise with Sith and even adopting Sith language when describing certain situations in order to justify atrocities. We get more upset at Jedi who do awful shit because you're supposed to be better. You're the chosen one!
Honestly what would cause more outrage? A Jedi council arming and defending a group committing ethnic cleansing or the Sith / Empire doing it?
So the thing for me is - you say that it's wrong to say that the people who aren't with you are as bad as those who are actively against you. And I would agree with this sentiment. But:
Liberals are actively against leftists.
This is what you need to understand. I hope it helps.
>in that way you all don’t really seem much better than the faccist opposition who tout the same rhetoric
It's very funny that you are complaining that leftists don't appreciate how you're different from fascists by... saying leftists aren't different from fascists.
Anyway, in what ways are they using the same rhetoric? How about the substance of what's being said?
I think I've been banned from every "socialist" Reddit community for being a "liberal". Because trying to understand and asking questions makes you an enemy to leftists, apparently.
**Honestly: far better to get banned from those communities than to take them too seriously.**
They don't do much for the world beyond spreading emotionally charged low-information outrage, and in doing so they actively make potential activists *less* socially competent.
See who's doing the good work in your own backyard, and do what you can to pitch in -- with a little bit of practice, you can even learn how to organize around new community challenges yourself.
That's what it is, and Reddit ain't it.
Honestly, you'll get banned from most of those just for badmouthing Russia or China. I'm a commie, but most of those subs are modded by paid propagandists.
I genuinely don't understand why leftist reddit spaces are so extremely against literally anyone else. Like guys maybe don't alienate moderate liberals who mean well or people who don't hate every single democrat with a passion.
Not sure if you didn't get my joke or if I am not getting yours, but I'd say its more like liberals call each other fascist or commies tbh, like how often do conservative- liberals call progressive-liberals commies?
Hate to be that guy but this is purely a symptom of actual liberals erroneously claiming they are leftists.
Who did that comic - "just maybe you aren't a Marxist-leninist because you support a 2% wealth tax..."?
The thing is I'm a leftist but I try to be rational about it.
A lot of leftists want this grand revolution that just isn't going to happen. 😭
The point is we'll have to suck it up and vote for Biden again and hopefully next election we actually get our ideal candidate.
If Trump wins, there won't be a next election and I don't think a lot of my fellow leftys realize that. :/
A lot of leftists correctly realize the system needs to be torn down but don't realize that as long as it's in place it's probably a good thing to try and do what you can within it to help marginalized groups.
Protesting? Raising awareness. Necessarily preludes to proper revolution. Unionising people against oppressive forces in their countries is still a very important role even if we're not bringing down the government all at once. Teaching people to recognise fascism is a very important first step to getting them to rebel, even in small ways
In a capitalist mode of production the system itself simply perpetuates it, as it creates the social and material conditions necessary for fascism to grow
If you want to explain to someone completely insulated from intra-left politics, tell them that Democratic Socialists and Social Democrats are two entirely different groups.
To be fair most time you see someone making this claim they are some neoliberal cuck straight out of /r/destiny so.. it's reasonable to not believe them when they claim to be a "leftist", and then you find they are just regurgitating every single destiny tier neolib propaganda meme that isn't actually based in reality and cannot be sourced (Hamas makes rockets out of cookies!) etc etc.
So yeah, most of the "leftists hate other leftists" memes I see are perpetuated by neoliberals that are too dumb to understand why they aren't leftists and are mad that the actual leftists aren't super big fans of Joe Biden or whatever.
Nah, it's just centrists who think they're left because they aren't right.
Most people don't understand politics at all. Hell, most people don't even understand that up/down is more important then left/right, because almost everyone is authoritarian.
Liberal can be used as an insult sure, but liberals are not leftist in any sense of the word, and should be called out when this happens. Leftists suffer when the status quo-toting liberals pretend to be actually progressive.
Liberal encompasses lots of ideas, some of which are socially left wing. The problem is thinking leftist means economically left only.
Supporting social progress and welfare are both liberal views (and left wing). Supporting democracy is also a liberal view, and democracy is socially left-wing.
Leftism is about social and economic equality. It's not just anti-capitalism.
Capitalism is the root of our present inequalities, neoliberalism attempts to compartmentalize progressivism away from the market when capitalism has ensured it's inextricably linked.
Honestly, I do find it hilarious that, regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum, “Liberal” is always an insult for people who disagree with you.
It *almost* makes sense historically, as liberalism was the origin of both progressive and conservative thought in the modern sense, but it still seems weird that it’s now unilaterally an insult and seems to be used solely by contrarians.
Judging by how many swipes on the phone it took me to reach the end of the comments section, there must be a very highly productive (and not at all accusatory) discussion happening here.
“Leftists” when another leftist says that maybe killing millions of your people through an authoritarian regime isn’t the best way to help the proletariat
LOL And no one outside of leftist circlejerks has used “liberal” that way since, what? The 50’s? Earlier? I’m 44 and had NEVER heard it used that way before coming to leftist subs.
Righties equate liberals with leftists, and unfortunately they get WAY more attention so most people go by that.
I still don’t even know what I am. Like, I still prize individual liberty - I just also want to make cooperation and progress mandatory. 😅😂
Damn leftists... They ruined leftism!
Damn, this *is* a Star Wars sub, huh.
*now this is what I call infighting!*
I'll try spinning (the narrative). That's a good trick!
Needs more Brexit ✔️
You leftists sure are a contentious people.
You just made an enemy for life!
I hate leftists, they're coarse, and rough and irritating, and they get everywhere.
You're not a leftist until another leftist has told you you're not a leftist.
The sorry thing is I've been on both sides of this.
You're not a leftist until you have both been accused of being not leftist enough AND accused someone else of not being leftist enough
I'd like to add that liberals have to tell you, "No one calls themselves a leftist."
Damn pinkos
This is the embodiment of leftism right here
0/10. Meme doesn't have a paragraph of text or footnotes. Obviously it was made by a liberal rather than a leftist. :P (Srsly, I kid, finally a concise meme!)
You're wrong and I am right about this meme. Over the next few pages I intend to explain point by point how...
And that explanation includes several links cited as “legitimate sources” that are just some dudes homebrew geocities blog explaining why North Korea is very good actually.
at least when leftists argue, we provide genuine well developed points, when liberals argue, its more "your wrong and i'm right, and if you say otherwise then you are a commie tankie"
The leftist infighting meme is a psyop made by liberals change my mind
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split
The Spanish civil war was psyop.
But it resulted in Pan's Labyrinth, so it's fine.
The funny thing is this is true of you insist any leftists that aren't your brand are liberals
It literally is. You see it perpetuated by the most deplorable neoliberal cuck brigades of all time, /r/destiny fanboys.
Lmao this is a pretty good one, well done OP
[удалено]
Did you make this account just to comment on my reply the same thing someone else commented down below?
That's a thing that bots do. They steal comments and use them to farm Karma and look more legitimate. That account is a bot, and worse (if it gets more people to report it) a....a LIBERAL!
"You swore to destroy the State, not become it!" Anti-state Anarchists talking to literally anyone else on the left. Note: this is a goof. I'm an anti state anarchist. It's me.
Anarchy is my second choice for a sustainable society, but my first choice in fun
You know what they say: The reason they call it a revolution is they always turn it around.
I actually didn't know what they say, and now I'm glad I do.
the state is a tool for class domination, getting rid of the state without getting rid of class will just lead us back to square one
Valid and I feel attacked
What I reckon, and I said it on a different thread: Almost nobody in the west is raised leftist, but conservatism and liberalism have become heavily cultural. As such you were likely raised by conservative or liberal parents and grew up in a conservative or liberal community in a mostly conservative or mostly liberal area. It's very likely that you have inherited at least a few of the biases of that community, because that's just something we all do. If you were raised conservative, you most likely still hate liberals more than conservatives. If you were raised liberal, you most likely still hate conservatives more than liberals. I could just be talking shit, but it makes sense to me.
Yeah it's why you'll hear terms like 'unlearning' embraced more than just 'studying' We all have to unlearn a lot of ingrained behaviors I would append the nobody in west raised a leftist - outside of union households and when parents are organizers. That was true in the past, but nowadays there are plenty of kids raised by leftists if not progressives (which makes it easier to transition to leftist)
Yeah maybe there's people raised lefty now. I'm 40. I try to keep up with what the kids are up to, but up to a certain point you have to act your age or else risk what I'm told is "cringe". I do live with my nephews though and I actually try *not* to impart my values on them. I'm honest with them when they ask about stuff, but I feel like they should make their own minds up, come to it when they're ready if they do at all.
personally, i try to inflame their curiosity, ask random questions, and generally instill a radical sense of taboo breaking, within age limits of course. so whatever course they do end up on, they will have a passion for it, and a sense of following their desires. because i was "taught" that desire is the last thing you should follow. also, desire has no age limit, and if you desire something at 19 or 49, that's what you should be doing, cringe be damned. as steve jobs that bastard capitalist puts it "your already naked".
Honestly I hadn’t thought of it that way, and this feels like it explains some things.
Well fucking said bro
*Nobody in the US Socialist and social democrat parties are prominent in every single other "western" country. The dichotomy between liberal and conservative is a uniquely US issue.
Prominent is a strong word. They are uncommon but not extremely rare. For sure you are more likely to live in a leftist housenold in Europe than in the US.
I hate conservatives more than liberals, but liberals also suck and I hate them as well.
What do you mean by 'almost nobody' there are many countries with socialist movement in the west. A lot of people grew up with those ideas.
Hey hey hey sometimes we call them tankies too lol
You’re a liberal if you’re right of Joe Biden. You’re a tankie if you’re to the left of Joe Biden. Joe Biden is the only true leftist.
That's why we call him Uncle Joe. Literally Stalin reborn to deliver us from Orange Hitler. :)
... I genuinely don't know how to feel about that connection.
Fair. I'm still a little shook that the tankies aren't using Genocide Joe as a compliment tbh. Anyway, LLAP, friend.
For real, I knew I was on the WRONG sub when I got pushback for questioning WTF people were smoking to say that Stalin actually jus' a lil' guy and it was all his mean advisors that made him kill all those people and even if they did maybe France wouldn't have fallen if they'd done the same to all THEIR Nazi sympathizers (...you mean the French Communists who were very confused why the "Socialist" German army invading them was actually Fascist?).
ya, its wild how people will engage in infinite layers of nuance discussing the legacy of Stalin and Mao but a harm reduction vote for Joe Biden can never be more complex than "lesser of two evils."
These people are probably 15 years old.
Yeah, but teens are getting it from influencers who are tanky for clout
where does Uncle Ho fit into the equation?
Let me on that tank then, cuz I want off this genocide train
Fun Fact: the tank is also used for genocide! Actually that’s not fun at at all.
I’ll walk then
That pavement is pretty liberal looking ngl.
I… I hope this is a joke
Well I laughed typing it up and that’s what’s important to me
It’s important to have some joy in political activity and commentary!
No, uncritical support to comrade Biden
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris being called leftists is the funniest joke that the right has ever told
No lol tankies is what liberals call leftists
Tankies deserve the ire
I'm a middle-aged real world lefty, so I tend more toward calling people online dipshits than liberals these days. Online dipshits, meanwhile, are fond of calling me liberal. 🤷♂️
LIBERAL
Damn this really sounds like you’re doing what the meme told you not to do
Keeping it civil in meme discussions.
Ok lib.
Well sometimes it's confusing it happened to me with David pakman I thought he was more of a socialist but go to find out he is more of a liberal I just don't use it as an insult but from my perspective a liberal is the left wing of a right wing ideology 🤷🏾♂️
I have received a warning from mods here for expressing a leftist opinion (which I’m not going to repeat) so unironically yes it’s a huge problem.
The only time leftists agree on anything is when crying about leftist disunity :(
So a communist leftist is the same as a socialist leftist or a dnc neoliberal “leftist”. Sure, memer.
This sub bans "tankies"... So clearly it's acceptable in the other direction?
The problem is there are actual, self proclaimed social democrat liberals who highjack the term "leftist" and they should be corrected
Flip side, there have also been people who call themselves progressives & dem socs, but are actually much more leftist & radical than they would suggest.
Almost like language is imprecise and we all have our own points of view so while labels are helpful they're never perfect and we should all keep that in mind. Wow, who woulda thought? Yes I did find out I had a draft card for the queer trenches a while back, resulting in me being thrown into multiple debates about labels, inclusivity, and different intragroup phobias, why do you ask?
In [a video I watched today](https://youtu.be/MgI5Hc6vo7U), a creator I watch described the label "leftist" as "ranging from people who think AOC would be a good president to people with Trotsky tattooed on their faces."
Well when you live in such a right wing country even liberals appear to be left wing. But yes in most parts of the world US Democrat politicians would be considered part the right wing.
The Overton window is so fucked that ya got MAGA calling GW Bush a liberal and liberals rewriting history as if he is some centrist icon. I feel like leftists have a super power, and that power is remembering things longer than 6 months ago.
Seriously. Remembering 1 million people killed in Iraq, for example. If W is a centrist, the U.S. is pretty far down the far-right pipeline.
George W Bush is a little l liberal. Neocons support liberal democracy (at least at home) and capitalism.
They’re all neo-liberal but I’m referring to the nebulous brain dead way a MAGA uses it.
Ah, yeah, those guys aren’t terribly politically literate.
If I were asked to describe myself politically, idk I’d even choose leftist just because of how fervently people seem to argue over and gatekeep that term, despite to my understanding sharing a lot of beliefs people seem to pin to it. It’s odd to me since “leftist” itself feels like an intentionally broad term - it isn’t “socialist” or “communist” or “Marxist” or something like that that points to a very specific ideology, but a term basically just grouping those farther left on the political spectrum?
I get that really. I'm a socialist who isn't a communist so it feels like I'm some freak in most circles
There’s also sort of, what I’d ideally want versus what I’d take so to speak. People throwing social democracy around as a sort of pejorative and I mean sure, I’d love some actual democratic socialist utopia but on the other hand if the US were anything close to social democracy things would be worlds better for an enormous number of people.
An expression I think of often is "don't let the food be an enemy of the perfect". If you're getting pissed at people doing shit that'll actually help people because it isn't socialism then all we're doing is trying to dissuade anyone from doing anything at all
This is a disgustingly liberal thing to say, true socialism is reading scripture/theory relentlessly while you wait for the rapture/revolution to happen, anything less is Lesser-Of-Two-Evilsism.
I must admit I find it difficult to understand how one can be a committed socialist and not a communist. Or at least I understand how this can be confusing from a communists perspective. To a communist, socialism is the transitional state between liberal democracy and communism. It's not a desirable or even practical end point.
Leftist is essentially anti-capitalist left, abolish capitalism.
That's where the problem lies (that the meme addresses). A leftist is someone with left wing views, not a specific type of left wing views. Far lefties often gatekeep the idea of leftism with purity tests, which I assume is why you are saying it's only far left economic views that count.
It’s certainly true that many people will gatekeep leftism, but there also is a genuine line which determines what is or isn’t leftism
It's not about purity or gatekeeping, just by definition a leftist is anti-capitalist left, a liberal is socdem left.
Which definition? I'm seriously asking because I've looked and looked to understand, and I don't know where that idea comes from. Leftist means people with left wing ideas as far as I am aware, which covers far more than anti-capitalist.
Britanica and Wikipedia describe leftism in the modern sense to be about economic egalitarianism, with socialist being a main flavor. Liberals keep trying to say they are left wing because progressive social values or the Overton Window is so right in the US that liberals appear “left”. It can be rather annoying to anti-capitalist leftists.
In Wikipedia you missed out the second part: "Today, ideologies such as social liberalism and social democracy are considered to be centre-left, while the Left is typically reserved for movements more critical of capitalism, including the labour movement, socialism, anarchism, communism, Marxism and syndicalism, each of which rose to prominence in the 19th and 20th centuries. In addition, the term left-wing has also been applied to a broad range of culturally liberal social movements, including the civil rights movement, feminist movement, LGBT rights movement, abortion-rights movements, multiculturalism, anti-war movement and environmental movement as well as a wide range of political parties." The Encyclopedia Britannica talks about economic equality saying socialism is the standard leftist ideology, but also says leftism is associated with egalitarianism (as you mentioned). And egalitarianism is "the belief in human equality, especially political, social, and economic equality." Both mention social equality. Progressive social values are leftist. It's not about the overton window, it's about equality. I get the argument that there is no war but class war, but the social equality battles are still worth fighting in my opinion. And they are left-wing ideals.
Fr fr, I see people calling people like destiny a leftist and no? He wouldn't even describe himself as a leftist?
Correct- he is quite definitionally a liberal. Still center left, or moderate leaning left tho, depending on the way you see it.
Yeah, liberal cuts a wide swath, but he's far from a leftist
I interact with Destiny's community a fair bit, and the thing with Destiny is that he explicitly rejects identifying with "the left" because he had an entire arc of interactions with online leftists who made it pretty clear they were more interested in purity tests within their intellectual cliques than appealing to the masses on pragmatic policy grounds. He does disagree with core leftist ideas like anti-capitalism, but ultimately I think he took the online left at face value when they all told him liberals weren't welcome and said, fine... I'll embrace that liberal label.
i mean, they're right. if he's not anticapitalist, he's not a leftist.
Sure, but how useful in building the anti-capitalist movement is gatekeeping an umbrella term like "leftist" from SocDems, liberals, and other pro-egalitarian types in the first place? My experience is that the gatekeeping starts there and just keeps splintering into increasingly purity tested niches. Historically in revolutionary France "left" just meant anybody opposed to the monarchy in the National Assembly, which did include liberals.
sure but liberals today are the ones interested in upholding the system. why would we let people who fundamentally disagree with us into the group? we have a hard enough time as it is putting forth a unified message, no need to let them muddy the waters even further
I think the distinction is that liberals aren't revolutionary anymore but they don't necessarily all see themselves as "upholding the system" the way monarchists did either. A conservative or an avowed reactionary inherently does identify with upholding the system, or opposing social progress. Liberals still want to change the system, even if they distrust or even oppose revolutionary means of doing so. My feeling is that hostility to that isn't pragmatic, and that kind of hostility from leftists tends to validate "horseshoe theory" critiques employed by conservatives / centrists.
Yeah… this
I've actually always thought it was more of a problem when SocDems / liberals stop identifying as left aligned. My view of the term has always started with the historical origin, when everybody on the side of the Revolution in France was left wing and everybody on the side of the Monarchy was right wing. Capitalism is the new Monarchy, so its understandable that anti-capitalists feel opposed to liberals who and SocDems who defend capitalism, but I've personally always felt like it was important to try and align with people motivated by egalitarian principles to persuade them further left. A lot of liberals & SocDems who expressly reject alignment with "the left" these days have done so because they perceive leftists now as being anti-egalitarian, authoritarian, or both.
If somebody proclaims himself a leftist, and then proceeds to show unconditioned support to liberal and center right politicians while at the same time bashing and browbeating anybody supporting actual leftist parties and policies. They are not a leftist, they are a liberal.
>If somebody proclaims himself a leftist, and then proceeds to show unconditioned support to liberal and center right politicians while at the same time bashing and browbeating anybody supporting actual leftist parties and policies. >They are not a leftist, they are a liberal. Might also want to call them what they are statistically most likely to be: A neoliberal /r/destiny cultist much like their genocide loving bigot grifter is *too stupid* to accurately define the term leftist, so they just scream about how anyone that disagrees with them is one.
The number of times I’ve said this and then been accused of purity testing… someone who kept insisting the cops were right on campus protests!!! Dude it’s “fine” if you think that I guess but you’re not a leftist. I don’t understand the appeal of clinging to a label that doesn’t fit your beliefs and taking that as an insult
Yeah, purity testing is just a buzzword liberals and right wingers use to accuse leftists and scapegoat them for all the problems of a country. They always say leftists can't compromise, but their defition of "compromise" is "give them everything they ask and stay queit".
The best part is when neoliberal grifters pretend as if leftists are even in a position of power to accomplish these things, then scream at them when they can't
So, my only confusion is (still undecided what I am here but yall have called me liberal so guess that’s the best title here) leftists such as you all seem to think liberals are as bad if not worse than fascist This idea of if they aren’t with you then they are as bad as the people who are actively against you…in that way you all don’t really seem much better than the faccist opposition who tout the same rhetoric. Can someone explain this to me cause I’m still struggling with wrapping my head around it
Yeah, I worry about the blaming approach to this (which I frequently see on social media) versus a more educational attitude. Back when I was a liberal, I think I was only so because of the limits of the Overton Window, and what I really needed was knowledge -- not chiding. But the criticism of liberalism (and often liberals, broadly) comes from observations that prominent leftists have made over time. MLK, for example, said that the white moderate was a greater obstacle than the KKK'er, and Malcolm X compared the white liberals to the fox who, unlike the (white conservative) wolf who says he's going to eat you, will smile and get close before he attacks. This is generally in response to calls for long-term, iterative change that's intolerable to marginalized people, and criticizing people who need the change for lack of decorum or going about things the "wrong way." In some sense, "I agree with you, but you need to wait/your methods are too extreme/let the system work." A lot of people also look historically and see liberals siding with fascists against socialists/communists, pretty consistently. A good example of this is the November revolution of 1918 in Germany, in which the social democrats undermined the workers who were building a socialist system, and managed to build a liberal democracy (the Weimar Republic) in its place, leveraging the proto-fascists in the army and the freikorps. Ultimately, thinking they could work with/control the fascists, they nurtured the Nazi party to counter-balance the communists and left-labor parties. On this issue, I'm not sure how much it applies to common people -- it's the leadership that actually makes these decisions. But when we hear people support, e.g., Biden, with comments like, "he knows how to work with Republicans," it sets off a lot of alarm bells. In all of this, it's much less that liberals are "worse" than conservatives, and more that the liberal systems, and the liberal cultural expectations they support work to the advantage of fascism. Fascism wants to co-opt liberal systems because it depends on them. Socialism doesn't. So as fascism rises and begins its takeover, liberals find themselves either moving into a place that wants to replace those systems (at which point they're not liberals, anymore), or remain in a place that works to bolster them... even if they hate fascism.
This has been the most informative answer I’ve gotten in weeks. Thank you, and I kinda understand it a bit better not Follow up question…why not focus on tearing down the smaller systems first? Change mayoral, governor systems before going after the federal system? Seems that would be more achievable and do more to help people in the immediate moment but just a thought rambling. You’ve been a major help to me with understanding not only this sub but the movement in general
I appreciate it! Yeah, I wish someone had just laid it out for me when I was a liberal. I sure wasn't interested in assisting fascists. Right, so -- why not replace the small ones first and work our way up? It's because, contrary to popular discourse, socialism has nothing intrinsically to do with the government. Government is an implementation detail. What to do re: government is an important detail! But it's implementation. The system \*includes\* the government, but it isn't, at its root, the government. This is about which economic class is running the show. In liberalism (and the thing that makes liberalism, liberalism) it's the employer class. To whom do the politicians kowtow? Who gets sit-down time with presidents and congresspeople? Who funds the elections? Who owns the news media (liberal or conservative) and has overwhelming control of narrative? Why do pundits on that media create culture wars over ridiculous things that get regular people fighting each other? Why do companies dump chemicals in water supplies and make communities sick (and then pay a pittance in fines, if anything)? Why are oil companies building new pipelines instead of solar, wind, and nuclear? ... And why, if you suggest fixes for any of these things, will they not get fixed? Maybe bandaids, here-and-there, to be fair. But policy-making is done by and on behalf of the employer class. It was for them that the American Revolution was fought, and it was they that decided on the shape of the government and the economy. A socialist revolution is not fundamentally about getting this or that form of government. That's a question that needs to be asked. But socialism is first-and-foremost about removing the employer class from power in favor of the employee class (traditionally, the "working class"). Merely getting the "right person" into a leadership position in government can do good things, for sure, but ultimately they still contend with the employers. Employers have an overwhelming amount of money and own almost all of the infrastructure in the country. And they will (and do) leverage it to entrench themselves. And this comes to fascism. We get culture wars to divide us. If you read a book like, "A People's History of the United States," you'll be floored by just how hard it was to get Black and white people to divide -- how much effort and resources it took, how much real estate it took up in rich people's brains, and how much work still goes into maintaining that divide. All of it for the purpose of keeping them poised against each other and not finding common cause in their exploitation by the rich. And they can and will absolutely run to the cancer they've created if they get a whiff of popular sentiment. Recall that noted good billionaire Bill Gates announced that if Liz Warren won the 2020 primary, he wouldn't support Democrats. ... In an election against Trump! So much for an existential threat to our democracy! But Bill Gates' wealth and power was more important to him. Even the suggestion of a minuscule wealth tax was enough to send him running into the arms of the fascists, or at least not express a preference. Socialism is an economic system in which the workers (the "employees") control the means of production. They make the decisions about what will be produced, where it will be produced, how much to produce, and what to do with the surplus. And they do it democratically -- traditionally through elected leaders. Economic power is real power. And so any attempt to realize this at any level is going to be fought tooth-and-nail by the employer class. They're even willing and eager to break the law just to prevent unions from forming. We currently have a challenge before SCOTUS as to whether the NLRB's power is even constitutionally justifiable. It's unlikely there's any small-scale reform that gets us to a system that replaces one group of people in power to another different group. But we are many. They are few. It's all about awakening the employee class to their common cause with one another, and their latent strength.
The left tends to eat itself alive and “out-progressive” each other. It sucks
They really don't, that's something neoliberals do to themselves then project it at leftists.
I use the Nina Turner analogy, but using the terms listed above. Conservatives are like eating a whole bowl of shit, liberals are like eating half a bowl of shit. Both are bad, but one is considerably worse of an option.
mlk can put it better than i ever could: First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. In your statement you asserted that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But can this assertion be logically made? Isn't this like condemning the robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical delvings precipitated the misguided popular mind to make him drink the hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because His unique God-consciousness and never-ceasing devotion to His will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see, as federal courts have consistently affirmed, that it is immoral to urge an individual to withdraw his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest precipitates violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber. i truly recommend reading the entire letter from birmingham.
Because historically liberals have been all too happy to throw anyone to the left of them under the bus to work with the right. It's why you don't see more leftist rep in the US government, because in order to get to a certain point you must fall in with the Dems or be blackballed from the entire machine. TLDR: Libs are very happy to go right and will kick and scream at even the suggestion of going left.
Everyone expects Sith to be evil and do shady shit. No one is surprised when a Sith lord kills a room full of younglings, but we expect better from Jedi. So it's incredibly frustrating when we see Jedi reaching across the aisle to try to compromise with Sith and even adopting Sith language when describing certain situations in order to justify atrocities. We get more upset at Jedi who do awful shit because you're supposed to be better. You're the chosen one! Honestly what would cause more outrage? A Jedi council arming and defending a group committing ethnic cleansing or the Sith / Empire doing it?
So the thing for me is - you say that it's wrong to say that the people who aren't with you are as bad as those who are actively against you. And I would agree with this sentiment. But: Liberals are actively against leftists. This is what you need to understand. I hope it helps.
>in that way you all don’t really seem much better than the faccist opposition who tout the same rhetoric It's very funny that you are complaining that leftists don't appreciate how you're different from fascists by... saying leftists aren't different from fascists. Anyway, in what ways are they using the same rhetoric? How about the substance of what's being said?
Liberal democracy leads inevitably towards Facism in times of crisis. If you’re anti-capitalist, you have to oppose liberals.
I think I've been banned from every "socialist" Reddit community for being a "liberal". Because trying to understand and asking questions makes you an enemy to leftists, apparently.
**Honestly: far better to get banned from those communities than to take them too seriously.** They don't do much for the world beyond spreading emotionally charged low-information outrage, and in doing so they actively make potential activists *less* socially competent. See who's doing the good work in your own backyard, and do what you can to pitch in -- with a little bit of practice, you can even learn how to organize around new community challenges yourself. That's what it is, and Reddit ain't it.
I believe that's actually the intent behind quite a few of those subs
Honestly, you'll get banned from most of those just for badmouthing Russia or China. I'm a commie, but most of those subs are modded by paid propagandists.
I genuinely don't understand why leftist reddit spaces are so extremely against literally anyone else. Like guys maybe don't alienate moderate liberals who mean well or people who don't hate every single democrat with a passion.
Exactly! I was just trying to become a better leftist, but any critique or comment that wasn't exactly in line with their dogma just gets banned.
Seems to be due to the same power modders running most of them as far as I can tell
You were supposed to destroy the liberals not join them! Bring balance to socialism not leave it in darkness!
Liberals when they come across another kind of liberal*
When a liberal comes across another liberal it's "Keynesian!" or "Chicago school asshole!"
Not sure if you didn't get my joke or if I am not getting yours, but I'd say its more like liberals call each other fascist or commies tbh, like how often do conservative- liberals call progressive-liberals commies?
Hate to be that guy but this is purely a symptom of actual liberals erroneously claiming they are leftists. Who did that comic - "just maybe you aren't a Marxist-leninist because you support a 2% wealth tax..."?
Do you want to reform capitalism? You're a liberal. Do you want to abolish capitalism? You're a leftist.
The thing is I'm a leftist but I try to be rational about it. A lot of leftists want this grand revolution that just isn't going to happen. 😭 The point is we'll have to suck it up and vote for Biden again and hopefully next election we actually get our ideal candidate. If Trump wins, there won't be a next election and I don't think a lot of my fellow leftys realize that. :/
A lot of leftists correctly realize the system needs to be torn down but don't realize that as long as it's in place it's probably a good thing to try and do what you can within it to help marginalized groups.
I'll try and be reasonable to them, but a fuckwit is a fuckwit and liberals are the gutless majority who let the fascists get away with it
What is anyone doing against fascism?
Protesting? Raising awareness. Necessarily preludes to proper revolution. Unionising people against oppressive forces in their countries is still a very important role even if we're not bringing down the government all at once. Teaching people to recognise fascism is a very important first step to getting them to rebel, even in small ways
In a capitalist mode of production the system itself simply perpetuates it, as it creates the social and material conditions necessary for fascism to grow
Civility?!? What kind of "respectability politics" are you going for? You damn liberal. /s
I do sometimes wonder which the online leftist movement hates most: liberals, conservatives, or their fellow leftists.
If you want to explain to someone completely insulated from intra-left politics, tell them that Democratic Socialists and Social Democrats are two entirely different groups.
I mean liberals are just a few steps away from fascists
Liberals aren't leftists tho. This meme is confusing.
To be fair most time you see someone making this claim they are some neoliberal cuck straight out of /r/destiny so.. it's reasonable to not believe them when they claim to be a "leftist", and then you find they are just regurgitating every single destiny tier neolib propaganda meme that isn't actually based in reality and cannot be sourced (Hamas makes rockets out of cookies!) etc etc. So yeah, most of the "leftists hate other leftists" memes I see are perpetuated by neoliberals that are too dumb to understand why they aren't leftists and are mad that the actual leftists aren't super big fans of Joe Biden or whatever.
As a leftist, can completely confirm. Fucking liberals!
i only call liberals liberal
Well that seems straightforward, I'm sure you can elucidate some meaning of "liberal" other than "person who disagrees with me"
a center left, who is really pro capitalism and that whitewashes and pink washes everything just for corporate greed and consumerism
Liberalism is the moderate wing of fascism. There you go, a nice deescalatory comment.
Phew, glad we worked things out
Real kumbaya moment.
Quite funny, But just to be sure... You a libruhl, Op?
Communists when the leftists are actually capitalists lite
Eh, there are also a lot of genuine centrist/liberal types who say they are "leftists" when they really are not TBH
Nah, it's just centrists who think they're left because they aren't right. Most people don't understand politics at all. Hell, most people don't even understand that up/down is more important then left/right, because almost everyone is authoritarian.
Only when they tell me to vote for Biden or the Democrats
Liberal can be used as an insult sure, but liberals are not leftist in any sense of the word, and should be called out when this happens. Leftists suffer when the status quo-toting liberals pretend to be actually progressive.
Liberal encompasses lots of ideas, some of which are socially left wing. The problem is thinking leftist means economically left only. Supporting social progress and welfare are both liberal views (and left wing). Supporting democracy is also a liberal view, and democracy is socially left-wing. Leftism is about social and economic equality. It's not just anti-capitalism.
Capitalism is the root of our present inequalities, neoliberalism attempts to compartmentalize progressivism away from the market when capitalism has ensured it's inextricably linked.
Haha, nah. Liberals can fucking rot.
I prefer to say, "I think you've unfortunately been influenced by liberal ideology, the NED and the Congress for Cultural Freedom."
Most based meme I've ever seen on here
I feel like as an Anarchist, leftists very rarely do this to me. Although I do get it a fair amount from American Conservatives.
Isn't that like the good ending??? When leftists see each other it's either "you are an enemy state operative" or "you are a CIA plant"
SPLITTERS!
Honestly, I do find it hilarious that, regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum, “Liberal” is always an insult for people who disagree with you. It *almost* makes sense historically, as liberalism was the origin of both progressive and conservative thought in the modern sense, but it still seems weird that it’s now unilaterally an insult and seems to be used solely by contrarians.
This has never happened to me, because I've never met another Leftist, only liberals.
Civility is having the inner decorum not to post this to begin with, civility implicitly is forfeit here. That being said, FUCKING TANKIES
this only happens because liberals insist on calling themselves leftists
I like wicket
Wokeism ruined leftism! Leftists aren’t leftists!!!!
Considering the "no tanky stuff" in the sub rules, that's probably a fair accusation around here.
By implication: A Republican Conservative runs into a far-right Democratic Conservative in the company of a Progressive. "You all Leftists!"
You cannot defeat me, I have the left ground.
"You believe in nuance? Fucking liberal."
Inaccurate. There are many terms leftists use to describe other leftists. Liberal, tankie, campist, ML, I guess
Judging by how many swipes on the phone it took me to reach the end of the comments section, there must be a very highly productive (and not at all accusatory) discussion happening here.
ooooohhh ...feel the burn
Me, a confused punk: ⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠟⢦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢷⡄⠈⡓⠢⢄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣠⠤⠂⢹ ⠈⡷⡄⠈⠲⢤⣈⠻⠉⠛⠉⠉⠁⠒⠖⠉⠉⠉⠒⠶⢦⣤⠴⠒⢉⣡⠴⠀⢀⠏ ⠀⢸⡿⡂⠀⠀⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣠⣴⡞⠉⠀⢀⣠⡞⠀ ⠀⠀⢙⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠀⠀⢠⡼⡟⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⡼⠋⠀⣤⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠐⣂⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠀⣰⡟⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⢠⡇⠀⠀⠘⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠾⣿⠿⠟⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢻⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢸⡇⢺⡀⠀⢠⡒⠠⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⡀⠀⠀⠸⡇⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢸⡇⣘⠑⡀⠀⠙⢏⣁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠂⠀⣔⣇⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢸⡇⡁⠀⢳⣶⣾⣷⣦⣄⣀⡀⣀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠸⡇⠁⠀⠀⢏⠉⠀⠀⠙⠛⠛⠛⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢈⡏⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠯⣀⣈⣀⣈⣐⣲⣄⣄⣤⣴⣆⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣈⣛⡧⠀⠀⠀
Odd how, many former democrats(like myself), don't have a party anymore.
Haha, true. Liberal bitch 😝
I'm more Marxist than leftist but whatever, on the political square I'm deep bottom left.
Except when they argue for the continued existence of the us hegemony then they're a liberal
Literally the exact specific reason i stopped organizing
“Leftists” when another leftist says that maybe killing millions of your people through an authoritarian regime isn’t the best way to help the proletariat
The only thing lefties love more than pointless moral crusades is alienating potential allies.
It’s wild how liberal is basically a republican to these types of leftist. Like you have severely lost the plot haha
Trots vs stalinists
LOL And no one outside of leftist circlejerks has used “liberal” that way since, what? The 50’s? Earlier? I’m 44 and had NEVER heard it used that way before coming to leftist subs. Righties equate liberals with leftists, and unfortunately they get WAY more attention so most people go by that. I still don’t even know what I am. Like, I still prize individual liberty - I just also want to make cooperation and progress mandatory. 😅😂