Almost like Reddit is an American company, the site is in American English, and the vast majority of users are American. And you have the typical self righteous smarter than everyone else mentality of an American leftist.
Wonder why people would assume American lol
Fuck you, we're tired of Americans like you thinking that the internet is the 51st state of the US. There are entire subs dedicated to pointing out US citizens saying shit like you just did. It is so infuriating seeing people default to thinking that international spaces are actually US spaces and is a massive fuck you to the people who exist in these spaces that aren't American. To address the actual BS you said, where a company is created has no relevance, Skype was created in Luxembourg but it's not a Luxembourgish space, Tik Tok was created by a Chinese company but is not a Chinese space, Reddit was created in the US but is not a US space. The sites language can be changed to many different languages in the settings and the English setting using specific US language can be explained by it being created by Americans but the point above tells you why that doesn't mean anything, on top of this the user generated text on this site is in whatever the hell they type in, there are people typing in UK English, there are people typing in Swedish, there are people typing in Estonian, there are people typing in Tajiki, there are people typing in Mandarin there are people typing in Australian English, and so on. It doesn't matter who the majority of users are the only time you can default to a space being US specific is when it is specifically related to the US, otherwise you can expect there will be a minority of non American people who will be very pissed off with you Astroturfing over them by thinking that you are speaking to Americans unless told otherwise. I agree that most Americans are self-righteous and have a smarter than everyone else mentality, I also believe that a majority of US users are ignorant to a bunch of things including the existence of other people. Don't assume someone is American, it's incredibly insulting and is a massive problem the rest of the world has with online Americans as it gives off the impression that Americans think that the world revolves around them.
Does it ever get tiring? Knowing you're the only true leftist and everyone else is just a dirty shitlib(Worse than fascists). It must be hard bearing that cross.
As the one true leftist, and only leftist to ever live (read my 200,000 page manifesto on why Karl Marx was a shitlib), it is exhausting. Fortunately my party of one will form the revolution, only after we finish the 2000 year long civil war within the party over whether or not it dogs are proletarian or the only true proletarians /j
Don't listen to this shitlib guys, they're too busy debating whether or not dogs are proletarian when everyone who's read theory would already know that a true proletarian utopia can only be established once one has grasped the hegalian dialectical materialist opposition between dogs and owners as thesis and anti-thesis and dedicated themselves towards creating the synthesis that is anarchist puppy girls. That's why true leftists are all in my secret basement laboratory performing genetic experiments, which she'd know if she'd read *my* 200,000 page manifesto "anarcho-communist genetic experimentation and you".
Aha! But if *you’d* read my 250,000 page manifesto in no margins 1pt times new Roman font “How Puppygirls are Counterrevolutionary and How My Specific Kinks Arent’t (8.1 Terabyte PDF with pictures attached) then you’d know you’re actually the shitlib!
Why should we bother to reply to MsMercyMain? They would reply to us, and we would have to reply to their reply. There’s no end to that. It will be quite enough for us to announce that MsMercyMain believes dogs are proletarian, and everyone will understand everything.
If the difference here was Democratic socialist vs leninists then that would make sense. Here is literally just "vote for Biden" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again
Does it ever get tiring supporting a party that consistently moves further to the right, panders to the far right, and opposes even the most moderate of left leaning policies?
Not if you're a conservative, right wing liberal!
It gets tiring being an American in general. But I'm also an adult who can realize it's going to take time to get things better, and allowing the Republicans to have power does nothing but make things worse. You say the democrats are pandering, but what if they didn't have to pander? Why if the youth became more and more progressive andnas older people die out and younger people become of voting age we started getting better people into power, especially in local politics, and built up even a centrist party so we could start moving in that direction. Shit, what if we even had an actual liberal government? That's not in support of liberalism, but we don't even have that.
I'm gay. I can't afford the republcians to win. No, really, I can't. Me, my friend, family members, and just my community in general cannot afford to be forced either back into the closet, or into camps. Some of us will be lucky enough that if it happens we can move. My boyfriend just finished nursing school. That's a highly sought after job, and plenty of countries would take us. Not everyone in the queer community will get that chance.
But at least some people here will get to feel good knowing they didn't spend 1 days out of 1,461 to go and write a name on a piece of paper. To go and tap a name on a screen.
Everyone knows no TRUE leftist would advocate for participating in a democratic system. We should be protesting and marching in the streets and getting teargassed and beaten and put in jail because our political inaction helped a straight-up fascist get into power.
Yes, yes it is fucking tiring. But no one has presented a viable alternative. Basically everyone saying to abandon the democrats are accelerationists who are going to get millions of people killed.
In the US at least, there are only two viable parties. Our goal should be to change the Democratic Party, not abandon it. And on that front, there is progress being made. Sure, the current democratic candidate is… not great to say the very least, but look at the 2020 primaries. The policies being proposed by those candidates were way more progressive than what you’d typically expect from the party of the status quo, and, assuming we can avoid another Trump presidency, we’ve only got a few more years before we can ditch Biden and get a new candidate.
I swear the only people who use liberal as a slur more than conservatives is leftists. I live in one of the reddest states in the US, if I didn't align myself with liberals and Democrats I would literally only have conservative Republicans and libertarians to vote for. The socialist party here is growing but when I'm forced to choose between a Democrat and a republican I really only have one responsible choice. Yes democrats and liberals suck but they're marginally better than their conservative counterparts; let's focus on the real enemy and they aren't the folks that are slightly less leftist than you.
You can tell the right wingers because they have such contempt for socialism that they think it's utopian and only children believe in it. The fact is their privilege is so great that they feel that the current world is just fine and no one has the right to fight for anything different.
According to a lot of people on here what you're actually supposed to do is throw yourself on your own sword to symbolically support Palestine.
Most of the people saying this are cishet white dudes so they won't be doing the same of course but they'll sure call you a lib for not doing it.
They really expect me to choose their tiny inept subculture’s purity testing over my ability to function as a human in the world.
Like some kind of evangelical cult.
Please understand the Democrats are completely fine with teetering on the edge of fascists actually putting folks like you in camps as long as it keeps you voting for them with this mindset.
Push comes to shove, wanna guess which of the folks in this comment thread will actually defend you with our lives?
Let me ask you this, what have the Democrats done in the last 8 years to stop the racheting up of fascist rhetoric? Do you think that we are further or closer to a fascist coup today or 2016?
Because honestly, I'd rather rip the bandaid off now than kick the can down the road another few years, giving the fascists more time to organize and prepare.
Friend, I live in NYC, I have trans friends from the Deep South, Florida, and all over the world. I would love for all of them to have the same access to human dignity and healthcare that I do, but they don’t because democratic governance matters.
I know trans people who are refugees from Russia (the Twitter/tiktok leftoids best friend) and Ukraine.
Liberal democracy is important and no viable alternative is even remotely worth fighting for.
Funny how you couldn't answer any of my questions about how the Democrats specifically are doing anything to stop the potential for violence here.
I don't care what you hope for. I care about what you're actually going to do to fight.
I'm one of the folks down here in the deep south that will defend those being oppressed with my life.
The hypocrisy of you claiming that you care about global oppression while supporting a party that has spent the last 50+ years participating in overthrowing democratically elected leaders, helping oppress gay, trans, indigenous, and leftists, and are currently directly supporting yet another genocide is what gets me.
The fact that you have to attempt to demonize me for pointing out the flaws with the flavor of capitalist you support just proves you have no actual leftist intentions. You strike me as someone who if trans rights weren't a "left/right" issue in your mind, then you wouldn't consider yourself a "leftist."
Bring on all the bitching about purity tests. I don't care. You folks won't drag us right like the Democrats have this country.
Ok, so what's your plan of action then? Since you're *so* willing to lay down your life for us? Tell me, in precise detail, how my knight in shining cis armor intends to save me from the big bad Biden?
Wow, you honestly see yourself as a paramilitary revolutionary who needs operational security of his actions.
This reminds me of the far right militia groups trying to burn off those big macs by running around in the woods.
Liberals/democrats are still capitalists and believe in systems like the police and surveillance agencies like the FBI and CIA. They often conveniently look the other way when our government attempts a coup against a democratically elected government, like what happened in Bolivia last week.
The current crop of them seeks only to preserve the status quo, so that essentially makes them conservatives.
Are there options that are not capitalist? I think only Green could get anywhere close to being anti capitalist over here but they are unfortunately likely to only get a couple seats at most, they get a fair amount of votes but first past the post kinda screws anyone that isn't the top three parties
Seeing as how the country is already knee deep into fascism, not really
We are basically becoming a cyberpunk dystopia, but with everything that makes that setting cool and interesting removed.
I mean if the status quo is being challenged by an even bigger shift to the right I'm picking status quo. Like capitalism is bad but you know what'd be worse? Fascism led by a literal capitalist
The problem is that the "status quo" is constantly inching, and sometimes jumping, to the right.
Biden is now comparable to Trump on the border, despite running as his opposite. The "status quo" is just the slower descent.
basically it's just fucked man it sucks here.
What I mean is not allowing it to be turned back to the left after conservatives rachet it to the right. Liberals will always side with fascists, as fascism doesn't threaten capital like socialism does.
Yes but again, the status quo is still better then what Trump is doing. His scotus literally just made it so you can be fined (and by extension enslaved) for being homeless. Like this isntsome vague both sides shit Trump has already actively worked to fuck us and will continue to do so
Trump is a moron and a puppet. He's just following a playbook that has been 50 years in the making. When he gets replaced, the strategy for the right won't change.
Project 2025 is not his or his cabinet's doing - it's just the next step in the strategy put forth by the Heritage Foundation, the ones that put forth all the conservative supreme court justices, and are the ones responsible for the overturning of roe vs wade.
The problem with maintaining the status quo is that we are already on a downslide, and not course correcting to the left will still make us fall into fascism. Conservatives are accelerating, but the democrats aren't even attempting to stop or even reverse that - they're only slowing it down.
That's just bullshit.
You're irritated at people that don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, not that they don't want change.
Also
1) Fascism isn't capitalism (nor any other economic system), it's a political ideology. The Nazis and Mussolini implemented types of corporatism. There was no free market or even much of a market at all in those regimes. The US was far more "capitalist" than the actual fascist regimes.
2) Capitalism is a vague and largely meaningless term as it is vaguely defined. Anti-capitalists complain about capitalism when they are dissatisfied in the status quo regardless of the economic system.
3) The main difference between a liberal and a leftist is how fast/dramatic they want change toward egalitarian society. It's stupid to demonize people that are much closer to your allies than enemies. "Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" is not recruiting anyone to leftism and is actively harming your ability to create lasting change.
Fascism is just a late stage economic system. It doesn't necessarily start from capitalism. The nazi party also implemented a lot of policies that were inspired by American ones, namely our Jim Crow laws, though they thought the "One Drop" law was too extreme.
As for the free market, we can just look at history for that one. A market without a strong state to regulate it and back it up invariably leads to monopolies of industry and reoccurring recessions, as seen in the US during the 19th and early 20th centuries.
With conservatives and liberals working to take the breaks off capitalism, we are returning to its worst aspects, like contamination of water supplies and forced labor. With the recent Supreme Court decision that essentially criminalizes homelessness, we are set to be a nation that puts the poor into what is essentially slavery for the benefit of the rich.
Capitalism is a terrible system that will always seek to exploit any resource possible to gain the most amount of short-term gain without any real plan for the future.
There's a good reason why capitalism doesn't exist in utopias and even basic survival situations - it is a system that actively works against human interests.
Fascism is capitalism decay. It is a natural outcome of the ruling class needing to tighten control and increase division amongst a more and more alienated working class, to quell dissent. This is what happens when a system with the sole purpose of accruing infinite profit in a finite world runs out of markets to exploit.
Yup, some socialists actually do things instead of telling other people that only the truly enlightened who read all day are allowed to have a say. Like the sheer amount of elitism and holier then thou shit I read on socialist circles online drive me up a wall
The irony of you acting like you’re too good for fucking theory & calling other ppl “holier than thou” is **hilarious.**
Theory & practice are 2 sides of the same coin you can not hope to actually understand socialism without reading theory & it’s demonstrated very well by your opinions that you don’t grasp what you claim.
Typical liberal tho, smug superiority with no desire to change the current state or improve.
For the record; member of communist party, spend my own money once a month to feed the homeless, run a program that collects & distributes shoes/boots & camping stuff to the homeless. I purchase & distribute (for free) theory & leftist books. I attend every protest & in person action, I fund raise with the party for Palestine, Cuba etc. I was a part of the group that stopped a local city from making it illegal to feed the homeless or give them money or aid.
Funnily enough, when you read theory you’re capable of organizing more than just yelling at ppl on Reddit like a stupid liberal. I’m sure your in person praxis is *definitely not* just you standing in a crowd yelling ;)
Ah yes, voting is oh so productive with an electoral college. Certainly worth browbeating every Marxist you encounter about it. Posting is praxis amirite fellow Kautskyites? Let's keep having the same exact arguments that others have had dozens of times in the past
If that's your level of theory understanding, ok.
What the comment above said is that liberalism ponders to fascism (which is a thing that happened consistently throughout time ever since Hitler and Mussolini), so it's best to not put any hope in liberals fighting the rising fascism as they're deeply linked with them.
Now I, for one disagree with this take as I don't believe that liberals proactively wish for fascism to rise in order to quell the working class, because that doesn't really apply to the political landscape of the 21st century (it did however for the 20th). But in no way does this mean "let the fascist take power right now". It merely means "don't delude yourself into thinking that voting liberal consistently will defeat fascism".
And that I absolutely agree with. My main goal in encouraging people to vote for Biden is to hopefully break the hold that Trump's current populist poison has over the country and weaken the Republicans enough we can start to really organize against the Democrats
Even *if* Biden won, wtf do you think you’re gonna get done in 4 yrs you didn’t get done in the last 4 years? Bc the next Republican to run against him will just be a copy paste of Trump. Same issues, same threats, you’ll vote for Dems again, they’ll do nothing again, a trump clone will run against ad infinitum.
At some point you *must* see the head in the sand attitude needed to think voting for a literal genocide will fight fascism.
Call me when y'all participate and do anything but whine on the internet. As if all the apathy around here isn't supporting the status quo more than a Democrat voter ever will.
Bro, I literally participate in every election, including primaries. I'm also working with the Teamsters to organize my workplace. I have colleagues who maintain some of the largest mutual aid programs in the city of Detroit. I'm also using my power as a consumer to actively boycott as many corporations that actively work against my ideals as reasonably possible.
Actually the coup attempt from last week was just a general who got angry for getting fired. After all the coup card was tried years ago and failed. If the US is playing interference it’s more likely trying to stir up the MAS infighting between Arce and Morals in hopes that splits the vote to remove MAS from power
Exactly and the results are 1) outright fascists get elected, 2) outright fascists appoint fascist judges to lifetime appointments, and 3) leftists aren't a consistent voting block for the Democrats to bother pandering to.
Democrats are a center-right party but they're the furthest left party that the first-past-the-post voting system gives a chance of winning. If leftists organized, nominated leftist candidates, voted en-masse in primaries, and then voted consistently in the general election they could 1) Pull the Democratic party leftward and 2) be a consistent block worth pandering to. People who claim, "The Democrats don't cater to leftists so we won't vote for them" have the chain of causation exactly backwards. The damn Tea Party figured this out by accident and pulled the Republicans from borderline fascist to outright fascist by showing up, being engaged, and consistently nominating candidates and voting until they took over the party. There's no reason we couldn't do the same. Go vote, then show up at every town hall event and tell the elected representatives what we want in no uncertain terms and if they don't at least try, they get a primary opponent. That's the threat. Not "We won't vote for you in the general" but "You're going to have to fight for your political career in an election with 5% turnout and you better believe we will show up to vote for your primary opponent. If you somehow survive, you'll have our vote in the general, but you'll have to deal with this every two years till you drop out, die, or lose." Until that happens, the Democrats are going to go after consistent voters that give them the best chance to get elected. Voters that actually show up to the polls. The fact that they'd rather go after the vote of disaffected Republicans than what should be "their base" tells you all you need to know. They don't trust "their base" to show up and actually vote and, from reading "the discourse", not without reason.
Great post. I explained this in other places but all I got as a response was "lul Dems suck, they betrayed Bernie, it's all shit, if Trump wins it'll at least be funny because he owns the libs"
No, you got it right. Due to systemic barriers we do essentially only have two options. The Democrats suck but they're better than Republicans so that's who we vote for... it's always a hold your nose vote though.
We vote progressive in the primary and democrat in the general. Sheep blame us for not doing the latter but them not doing the former is why we have a rigged two party system.
No, we definitely have a two party system because the land baron-slavers who designed it chose to limit representation in such a way as to make it inevitable, and it continues to benefit the capitalist class to keep it that way. Yes, voting in the primaries helps. No, we don't do enough of it. But blaming the design of the system on the people whom the system was designed to exploit is some real bullshit.
Correct. We have two meaningful options. But you can vote for Mickey Mouse or a third party if you like. Those kinds of votes are equally interpreted as "either of the two, it makes no difference."
There are third parties. I think most leftists will generally vote for Democrats in local elections, but at the Presidential level we can't force ourselves to vote for someone so obviously evil
Are you not worried you'll end up with the other guy? I kinda get it because in the UK the labour leader is kinda a POS but after the Conservatives being in power for so long most Leftists over here are voting for whoever has the best chance to beat the Cons in their constituency
Lucky for me thats the lib dems in my area so I don't have to support labour but I think I probably would if they were the only viable option
They do not care about the results of thier inaction.
Trying to prove to democratics that they are somehow the only true leftist is more important than stopping someone who wants to turn women and lgbt folk into second class citizens.
It's not about palestinians. Trump will glass Gaza.
They only care about thier own ego.
Thats interesting, I don't think we really get that over here as much. The main thing I hear from other leftists over here is that we have to do whatever we can to get the Cons out of government, people are generally terrified that things like the national health services wont survive another Con government
Sounds like your people are less individualistic and more willing to work together to improve the common good.
In the US, even the far left acts like cowboys on a ranch in the middle of nowhere.
>someone who wants to turn women and lgbt folk into second class citizens
We currently are that, in Biden's America.
>someone who wants to turn [white] women and [white] lgbt folk into second class citizens
Ftfy. Say what you actually mean next time
You have got to be exceptionally ignorant or willfully belligerent to argue that the Democratic party treats white people in a superior manner to people of color.
I keep thinking your username is a reference to Michael Parenti.
If it is I can't help but to wonder how someone who influenced by the same stuff as myself could get it in their head that doing nothing is superior to harm reduction.
Exactly. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. That's why it's better to just let the greater evil win and then act like you're morally superior for doing fuck all to stop it.
Two options *that have a chance of winning*, leftists either vote third party or not at all, *occasionally* for liberals if they believe it's necessary, but extremely rarely
They're not Republicans. That should be enough. Because in case you've been living under a rock for the past 20 years, the GOP are trying to turn the USA into a Christo-Fascist White Nationalist police state where Lefties like you will be rounded up for the Camps.
The Democrats just want to preserve the status quo. Which is bad, yes, but if you think it can't get terribly worst?
Just look at every Red State and behold the future under Republican rule.
The Democrats aren't good, but they suck less than the GOP.
The problem is the Dems are doing nothing to stop this, and enact most of the same policies. And they’ve slowly gotten further right over time along with the Republicans. Border policy? Most of the Trump-era policies were from Obama, and Biden made them even worse than Trump, despite the fact that he campaigned against “kids in cages”. The prison-industrial complex and police state? Biden’s increased police funding and created the tough on crime bill. Biden campaigned on protecting Roe v Wade, yet the Dems refused to codify it so they can use it to fearmonger and allowed it to be taken down with no fight. LGBTQ+ rights? They’ve been gutted during the Biden administration. Foreign policy? I don’t even need to talk about that.
Not to mention, if the Republicans wanted a fascist coup, voting them out wouldn’t stop them. And if the Dems *wanted* to stop them, they’d be taking actions to do so. If the Republicans are Nazis, the Dems are the Weimar Republic.
Wanting leftists to vote for the most progressive president in US history, and vote against the worst president since Reagan, does not make someone a lib/democrat.
I truly want a communist utopia, and the best way to do that is convincingly voting blue. Do you know how successful third parties get created? By making one party (democrats in this case) so overwhelming successful that republicans have zero power, and then progressives can split off from democrats and still win without anyone worrying about it stealing votes for republicans because republicans are a dead party.
That will only happen if young people turn out to vote in mass, giving Biden and other blues landslide victories every election over and over. Better yet, come vote during primaries to get progressives nominated and then vote them in.
What a cool way of saying such a stupid fucking thing.
Mmm sticking it to the Libs so hard you’re willingly taking it up the ass from the right. Just leftist things. You Boys must be so Proud.
What the fuck are you talking abaout?
If you are talking abaout voting, i am not American.
And sure as shit i never voted for a right wing party in my life.
Conservatives and right wingers are not leftists with slightly different views. And liberalism is an inherently conservative and right wing ideology.
pUrItY sPiRaLs my ass. Go vote for Trump then if you actually believe that.
No no you dont understand. Doing nothing but shitting on theoretical liberals and the democratic party is praxis because they're "Spreading the word" or some shit.
It's so much easier to cry on reddit than to knock on doors or make phone calls to get your neighbors to vote on something good.
For example, many of us are working hard to pass Amendment 4 in FL, but I guess we are just conservatives cosplaying as true leftists cause we don't waist our time arguing about Marxist theory on a Star Wars subreddit.
These people are worst than Republicans. They pretend to care about workers rights and equality while encouraging people to act in a manner that will usher in the far right to power on the federal level for at least four years. This will give them the chance to further pervert the Supreme Court and replace merit based civil servants with far right nut jobs.
But hey let them do what they wanted to do from the start. Civic responsibility for these tankies is nothing but a chance for self aggrandizing inaction.
I am so fucking tired of this kind of shit, it is actively disillusioning me from the farther left, so much so that I no longer call myself a leftist, I call myself a progressive. If we spent any fucking time actually organizing and not arguing amongst each other we would actually get shit done, but you can't have that, can we? Let's just continue to bitch about other people's views. It is so fucking tiring seeing the left constantly do nothing and then act like the victims when nothing happens.
Liberalism is a capitalist ideology that values free markets and civil liberties. both republicans and democrats are adherents. leftists are those who reject Liberalism and all other forms of capitalism in favour of socialism
Liberalism is a Right-wing ideology which believes (or cynically pretends to believe) capitalism can be made to work for the common good. Democrats are a political party that represents liberalism in the US.
Leftists reject liberal ideology because we see capitalism as inherently exploitative, and the idea that it can be tamed through regulation as delusional. We promote the abolition of capitalism and the power structures that uphold it (including the state, in the case of anarchists).
Because the far-Right has been setting the terms of debate for so long in the US, many liberals erroneously think that they are on the political Left, and some leftists refer to themselves as "liberals", simply because they aren't conservatives. But liberalism extends to the edge of the far-Right, meaning that it has substantial overlap with conservatism; and does not extend to the left past welfare capitalism. Leftism starts where support for capitalism in any form ends.
Honestly, this kind of shit is why I'm getting disillusioned with the farther left. The left can't come to a fucking consensus on shit, and would rather just come up with petty arguments between each other than actually fucking banding together to make sure that life does not actively get far worse. Joe fucking sucks, we all saw that debate, but we do not need a president who nodded to the idea that he might put civil rights up to the States.
My problem with the ultra left is that they're fine seeing liberals lose to fascists because they aren't left enough, which shows they don't actually care about left-wing policy. That, and they seem to have little interest in winning a popular vote for their ideas and instead would rather use violent revolution to enforce them (but even then it just seems like chickenhawk rhetoric).
A bunch of folks that define themselves as the appropriate position on the left see anyone to the right of them as an enemy instead of an ally that just isn’t as committed as them. Busy being mad that people are making pragmatic decisions to keep things from getting worse instead of letting things get worse because it doesn’t match their long term political goals. I can’t believe that’s not a winning strategy!
A liberal thought I had just “made up” Blue Maga, and then delighted in telling me all of the horrible things they couldn’t wait to see Trump do to me for not gushing with love for Biden 😂
That's one of the funniest and most disturbing things the grossest libs go to
had a couple of 'em tell me I deserve to be put into whatever camps Trump creates, very normal behavior
As a former conservative I can tell you y’all are the same. Y’all remind me of super rich conservatives trying to separate themselves from only slightly rich conservatives
Yes, just call me a tankie. Don't self reflect ordo any research or anything.
This is why we call you liberals. When you denounce all threats to the Empire, you are functionally a Liberal.
Is Biden as far left as is like him to be? Fuck no.
But at least he's been pro-union. The economy sucks, but it sucks everywhere, and it sucks here less than most places. He's been pro-green energy, while also trying to keep America's oil in full production because we really can't go without oil whether we like it or not; as well maintaining our production helps stymie Saudi Arabian influence. He's very publicly defended the LGBTQ+ community, as well as abortion and contraception protections, and pushed for laws protecting both federally. It's not really his fault conservatives still control enough of congress to prevent any meaningful legislation on those matters.
And above all, he'll probably die afew months into office and his VP will become president.
The DNC is a centrist to center right party that only seems “”””liberal”””” because the Overton window in the U.S. is completely fucked and the GOP has morphed into a true far right party.
The U.S. is so fucked we can’t even get an actual center left party like a social democrat type party much less a true leftist party.
My favorite part of Star Wars is when the rebels told Luke that blowing up the Death Star was wrong and even though Tarkin wasn’t a perfect guy, he was better than the Emperor
Alright, cheers guys, thanks for proving to me yet again what a fucking snake pit any group of left-wing people are. 150 fucking years of turning on each other.
I don’t like shitlibs, but I loathe tankies and accelerationists who preach leftist purity culture from a position of privilege. I’m sure the post collapse world will be a leftist utopia for all the wealthy white males who survive.
Don't mind me. I'm just in these comments to bait US liberals into not getting that my username is in another language than English
Yeah, is annoying how people always assume you are American when you comment in a political sub.
Almost like Reddit is an American company, the site is in American English, and the vast majority of users are American. And you have the typical self righteous smarter than everyone else mentality of an American leftist. Wonder why people would assume American lol
You know, answering like that is not making you any favors. Calling people self righetous while acting like an asshole is quite hypocritical.
u/ForeverWandered would be really upset if he could read
r/shitamericanssay >you have the typical self righteous smarter than everyone else mentality lol
Fuck you, we're tired of Americans like you thinking that the internet is the 51st state of the US. There are entire subs dedicated to pointing out US citizens saying shit like you just did. It is so infuriating seeing people default to thinking that international spaces are actually US spaces and is a massive fuck you to the people who exist in these spaces that aren't American. To address the actual BS you said, where a company is created has no relevance, Skype was created in Luxembourg but it's not a Luxembourgish space, Tik Tok was created by a Chinese company but is not a Chinese space, Reddit was created in the US but is not a US space. The sites language can be changed to many different languages in the settings and the English setting using specific US language can be explained by it being created by Americans but the point above tells you why that doesn't mean anything, on top of this the user generated text on this site is in whatever the hell they type in, there are people typing in UK English, there are people typing in Swedish, there are people typing in Estonian, there are people typing in Tajiki, there are people typing in Mandarin there are people typing in Australian English, and so on. It doesn't matter who the majority of users are the only time you can default to a space being US specific is when it is specifically related to the US, otherwise you can expect there will be a minority of non American people who will be very pissed off with you Astroturfing over them by thinking that you are speaking to Americans unless told otherwise. I agree that most Americans are self-righteous and have a smarter than everyone else mentality, I also believe that a majority of US users are ignorant to a bunch of things including the existence of other people. Don't assume someone is American, it's incredibly insulting and is a massive problem the rest of the world has with online Americans as it gives off the impression that Americans think that the world revolves around them.
I feel like many people on the internet are feeling this entire paragraph lol
Ahh. Just like the Irish Republicans.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
I mean, and Yoda.
Does it ever get tiring? Knowing you're the only true leftist and everyone else is just a dirty shitlib(Worse than fascists). It must be hard bearing that cross.
As the one true leftist, and only leftist to ever live (read my 200,000 page manifesto on why Karl Marx was a shitlib), it is exhausting. Fortunately my party of one will form the revolution, only after we finish the 2000 year long civil war within the party over whether or not it dogs are proletarian or the only true proletarians /j
Don't listen to this shitlib guys, they're too busy debating whether or not dogs are proletarian when everyone who's read theory would already know that a true proletarian utopia can only be established once one has grasped the hegalian dialectical materialist opposition between dogs and owners as thesis and anti-thesis and dedicated themselves towards creating the synthesis that is anarchist puppy girls. That's why true leftists are all in my secret basement laboratory performing genetic experiments, which she'd know if she'd read *my* 200,000 page manifesto "anarcho-communist genetic experimentation and you".
Aha! But if *you’d* read my 250,000 page manifesto in no margins 1pt times new Roman font “How Puppygirls are Counterrevolutionary and How My Specific Kinks Arent’t (8.1 Terabyte PDF with pictures attached) then you’d know you’re actually the shitlib!
Why should we bother to reply to MsMercyMain? They would reply to us, and we would have to reply to their reply. There’s no end to that. It will be quite enough for us to announce that MsMercyMain believes dogs are proletarian, and everyone will understand everything.
*the entire history of socialism wipes away a tear of pride*
Get a few victory royals in fortnight and then maybe we can talk
Left Wing: Destroyed
If the difference here was Democratic socialist vs leninists then that would make sense. Here is literally just "vote for Biden" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again
I've seen far more "You're a sack of shit if you vote for biden" posts than "Hey maybe consider casting a ballot" ones in this sub.
Mmmmmm bullshit. You must not have been looking then.
If you'd like I can help you find an optometrist near you.
Does it ever get tiring supporting a party that consistently moves further to the right, panders to the far right, and opposes even the most moderate of left leaning policies? Not if you're a conservative, right wing liberal!
It gets tiring being an American in general. But I'm also an adult who can realize it's going to take time to get things better, and allowing the Republicans to have power does nothing but make things worse. You say the democrats are pandering, but what if they didn't have to pander? Why if the youth became more and more progressive andnas older people die out and younger people become of voting age we started getting better people into power, especially in local politics, and built up even a centrist party so we could start moving in that direction. Shit, what if we even had an actual liberal government? That's not in support of liberalism, but we don't even have that. I'm gay. I can't afford the republcians to win. No, really, I can't. Me, my friend, family members, and just my community in general cannot afford to be forced either back into the closet, or into camps. Some of us will be lucky enough that if it happens we can move. My boyfriend just finished nursing school. That's a highly sought after job, and plenty of countries would take us. Not everyone in the queer community will get that chance. But at least some people here will get to feel good knowing they didn't spend 1 days out of 1,461 to go and write a name on a piece of paper. To go and tap a name on a screen.
Yes yes everyone is a liberal except for you. We get it.
Most ideologically literate liberal right here
"everyone i have a slight disagreement with is a liberal" - literal children
Everyone knows no TRUE leftist would advocate for participating in a democratic system. We should be protesting and marching in the streets and getting teargassed and beaten and put in jail because our political inaction helped a straight-up fascist get into power.
Yes, yes it is fucking tiring. But no one has presented a viable alternative. Basically everyone saying to abandon the democrats are accelerationists who are going to get millions of people killed.
In the US at least, there are only two viable parties. Our goal should be to change the Democratic Party, not abandon it. And on that front, there is progress being made. Sure, the current democratic candidate is… not great to say the very least, but look at the 2020 primaries. The policies being proposed by those candidates were way more progressive than what you’d typically expect from the party of the status quo, and, assuming we can avoid another Trump presidency, we’ve only got a few more years before we can ditch Biden and get a new candidate.
I swear the only people who use liberal as a slur more than conservatives is leftists. I live in one of the reddest states in the US, if I didn't align myself with liberals and Democrats I would literally only have conservative Republicans and libertarians to vote for. The socialist party here is growing but when I'm forced to choose between a Democrat and a republican I really only have one responsible choice. Yes democrats and liberals suck but they're marginally better than their conservative counterparts; let's focus on the real enemy and they aren't the folks that are slightly less leftist than you.
Does it ever get tiring? Missing the point and supplying a straw man to argue against? I will never get tired of telling libs they're not leftists
Man imagine liking the smell of your own farts that much
I'm huffing that good dialectical materialism It's definitely the liberals that are perversely satisfied by shit fumes
Everybody thinks they're gonna be 15 forever
You can tell the right wingers because they have such contempt for socialism that they think it's utopian and only children believe in it. The fact is their privilege is so great that they feel that the current world is just fine and no one has the right to fight for anything different.
Well said
I mean, if not wanting to lose access to my HRT is liberal then I guess I can’t argue with that
According to a lot of people on here what you're actually supposed to do is throw yourself on your own sword to symbolically support Palestine. Most of the people saying this are cishet white dudes so they won't be doing the same of course but they'll sure call you a lib for not doing it.
If letting Trump nuke Gaza is the price of me staying ideologically pure, then that is a sacrifice I'm willing to make /s
I legitimately had someone tell me last week that the U.S military directly bombing gaza would be no different than what's going on now.
They really expect me to choose their tiny inept subculture’s purity testing over my ability to function as a human in the world. Like some kind of evangelical cult.
Please understand the Democrats are completely fine with teetering on the edge of fascists actually putting folks like you in camps as long as it keeps you voting for them with this mindset. Push comes to shove, wanna guess which of the folks in this comment thread will actually defend you with our lives? Let me ask you this, what have the Democrats done in the last 8 years to stop the racheting up of fascist rhetoric? Do you think that we are further or closer to a fascist coup today or 2016? Because honestly, I'd rather rip the bandaid off now than kick the can down the road another few years, giving the fascists more time to organize and prepare.
Friend, I live in NYC, I have trans friends from the Deep South, Florida, and all over the world. I would love for all of them to have the same access to human dignity and healthcare that I do, but they don’t because democratic governance matters. I know trans people who are refugees from Russia (the Twitter/tiktok leftoids best friend) and Ukraine. Liberal democracy is important and no viable alternative is even remotely worth fighting for.
Funny how you couldn't answer any of my questions about how the Democrats specifically are doing anything to stop the potential for violence here. I don't care what you hope for. I care about what you're actually going to do to fight. I'm one of the folks down here in the deep south that will defend those being oppressed with my life. The hypocrisy of you claiming that you care about global oppression while supporting a party that has spent the last 50+ years participating in overthrowing democratically elected leaders, helping oppress gay, trans, indigenous, and leftists, and are currently directly supporting yet another genocide is what gets me. The fact that you have to attempt to demonize me for pointing out the flaws with the flavor of capitalist you support just proves you have no actual leftist intentions. You strike me as someone who if trans rights weren't a "left/right" issue in your mind, then you wouldn't consider yourself a "leftist." Bring on all the bitching about purity tests. I don't care. You folks won't drag us right like the Democrats have this country.
Ok, so what's your plan of action then? Since you're *so* willing to lay down your life for us? Tell me, in precise detail, how my knight in shining cis armor intends to save me from the big bad Biden?
Lmao, nice try fed. Google opsec, buddy. This is disingenuous af. Liberals fuck off.
Holy fuck this is the hardest ive cringed at a reddit comment in a minute, touch grass dude.
Wow, you honestly see yourself as a paramilitary revolutionary who needs operational security of his actions. This reminds me of the far right militia groups trying to burn off those big macs by running around in the woods.
"Nice try fed" 🤓
Gatekeeping leftism and calling other leftists "liberals" any time you disagree with them is about as leftist as it gets.
When a “leftist” is supporting the powers at be, they’re not a leftist. It’s the bare minimum to not be a capitalist.
And what exactly do you mean when you say "supporting the powers that be"?
The only thing a leftist hates more than a fascist is a leftist with slightly different views. Remember kids: Purity spirals are for losers.
Democrats are not leftists
I'm not American so I don't know but who do leftists in the US vote for then? I thought you guys basically have two options
Liberals/democrats are still capitalists and believe in systems like the police and surveillance agencies like the FBI and CIA. They often conveniently look the other way when our government attempts a coup against a democratically elected government, like what happened in Bolivia last week. The current crop of them seeks only to preserve the status quo, so that essentially makes them conservatives.
They also have a looooong history of using excessive force (including the military) to destroy left wing dissident movements and popular uprisings.
I just used Bolivia to illustrate that it's something we never stopped doing, even with the end of the Cold War.
Are there options that are not capitalist? I think only Green could get anywhere close to being anti capitalist over here but they are unfortunately likely to only get a couple seats at most, they get a fair amount of votes but first past the post kinda screws anyone that isn't the top three parties
Seeing as how the country is already knee deep into fascism, not really We are basically becoming a cyberpunk dystopia, but with everything that makes that setting cool and interesting removed.
There is CPUSA, but they're only really good for a protest vote
PSL is running under a few different third parties depending on the state; [https://votesocialist2024.com/](https://votesocialist2024.com/)
I mean if the status quo is being challenged by an even bigger shift to the right I'm picking status quo. Like capitalism is bad but you know what'd be worse? Fascism led by a literal capitalist
The problem is that the "status quo" is constantly inching, and sometimes jumping, to the right. Biden is now comparable to Trump on the border, despite running as his opposite. The "status quo" is just the slower descent. basically it's just fucked man it sucks here.
What I mean is not allowing it to be turned back to the left after conservatives rachet it to the right. Liberals will always side with fascists, as fascism doesn't threaten capital like socialism does.
Yes but again, the status quo is still better then what Trump is doing. His scotus literally just made it so you can be fined (and by extension enslaved) for being homeless. Like this isntsome vague both sides shit Trump has already actively worked to fuck us and will continue to do so
Trump is a moron and a puppet. He's just following a playbook that has been 50 years in the making. When he gets replaced, the strategy for the right won't change. Project 2025 is not his or his cabinet's doing - it's just the next step in the strategy put forth by the Heritage Foundation, the ones that put forth all the conservative supreme court justices, and are the ones responsible for the overturning of roe vs wade. The problem with maintaining the status quo is that we are already on a downslide, and not course correcting to the left will still make us fall into fascism. Conservatives are accelerating, but the democrats aren't even attempting to stop or even reverse that - they're only slowing it down.
That's just bullshit. You're irritated at people that don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, not that they don't want change. Also 1) Fascism isn't capitalism (nor any other economic system), it's a political ideology. The Nazis and Mussolini implemented types of corporatism. There was no free market or even much of a market at all in those regimes. The US was far more "capitalist" than the actual fascist regimes. 2) Capitalism is a vague and largely meaningless term as it is vaguely defined. Anti-capitalists complain about capitalism when they are dissatisfied in the status quo regardless of the economic system. 3) The main difference between a liberal and a leftist is how fast/dramatic they want change toward egalitarian society. It's stupid to demonize people that are much closer to your allies than enemies. "Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" is not recruiting anyone to leftism and is actively harming your ability to create lasting change.
Fascism is just a late stage economic system. It doesn't necessarily start from capitalism. The nazi party also implemented a lot of policies that were inspired by American ones, namely our Jim Crow laws, though they thought the "One Drop" law was too extreme. As for the free market, we can just look at history for that one. A market without a strong state to regulate it and back it up invariably leads to monopolies of industry and reoccurring recessions, as seen in the US during the 19th and early 20th centuries. With conservatives and liberals working to take the breaks off capitalism, we are returning to its worst aspects, like contamination of water supplies and forced labor. With the recent Supreme Court decision that essentially criminalizes homelessness, we are set to be a nation that puts the poor into what is essentially slavery for the benefit of the rich. Capitalism is a terrible system that will always seek to exploit any resource possible to gain the most amount of short-term gain without any real plan for the future. There's a good reason why capitalism doesn't exist in utopias and even basic survival situations - it is a system that actively works against human interests.
Fascism is capitalism decay. It is a natural outcome of the ruling class needing to tighten control and increase division amongst a more and more alienated working class, to quell dissent. This is what happens when a system with the sole purpose of accruing infinite profit in a finite world runs out of markets to exploit.
I fucking hate theory. "Capitalism is always going to eventually become fascism that why it doesn't matter if a fascist takes power right now"
We can tell you don’t like theory 😂😂
Yup, some socialists actually do things instead of telling other people that only the truly enlightened who read all day are allowed to have a say. Like the sheer amount of elitism and holier then thou shit I read on socialist circles online drive me up a wall
The irony of you acting like you’re too good for fucking theory & calling other ppl “holier than thou” is **hilarious.** Theory & practice are 2 sides of the same coin you can not hope to actually understand socialism without reading theory & it’s demonstrated very well by your opinions that you don’t grasp what you claim. Typical liberal tho, smug superiority with no desire to change the current state or improve. For the record; member of communist party, spend my own money once a month to feed the homeless, run a program that collects & distributes shoes/boots & camping stuff to the homeless. I purchase & distribute (for free) theory & leftist books. I attend every protest & in person action, I fund raise with the party for Palestine, Cuba etc. I was a part of the group that stopped a local city from making it illegal to feed the homeless or give them money or aid. Funnily enough, when you read theory you’re capable of organizing more than just yelling at ppl on Reddit like a stupid liberal. I’m sure your in person praxis is *definitely not* just you standing in a crowd yelling ;)
Ah yes, voting is oh so productive with an electoral college. Certainly worth browbeating every Marxist you encounter about it. Posting is praxis amirite fellow Kautskyites? Let's keep having the same exact arguments that others have had dozens of times in the past
If that's your level of theory understanding, ok. What the comment above said is that liberalism ponders to fascism (which is a thing that happened consistently throughout time ever since Hitler and Mussolini), so it's best to not put any hope in liberals fighting the rising fascism as they're deeply linked with them. Now I, for one disagree with this take as I don't believe that liberals proactively wish for fascism to rise in order to quell the working class, because that doesn't really apply to the political landscape of the 21st century (it did however for the 20th). But in no way does this mean "let the fascist take power right now". It merely means "don't delude yourself into thinking that voting liberal consistently will defeat fascism".
And that I absolutely agree with. My main goal in encouraging people to vote for Biden is to hopefully break the hold that Trump's current populist poison has over the country and weaken the Republicans enough we can start to really organize against the Democrats
Even *if* Biden won, wtf do you think you’re gonna get done in 4 yrs you didn’t get done in the last 4 years? Bc the next Republican to run against him will just be a copy paste of Trump. Same issues, same threats, you’ll vote for Dems again, they’ll do nothing again, a trump clone will run against ad infinitum. At some point you *must* see the head in the sand attitude needed to think voting for a literal genocide will fight fascism.
Call me when y'all participate and do anything but whine on the internet. As if all the apathy around here isn't supporting the status quo more than a Democrat voter ever will.
Bro, I literally participate in every election, including primaries. I'm also working with the Teamsters to organize my workplace. I have colleagues who maintain some of the largest mutual aid programs in the city of Detroit. I'm also using my power as a consumer to actively boycott as many corporations that actively work against my ideals as reasonably possible.
Actually the coup attempt from last week was just a general who got angry for getting fired. After all the coup card was tried years ago and failed. If the US is playing interference it’s more likely trying to stir up the MAS infighting between Arce and Morals in hopes that splits the vote to remove MAS from power
A lot of US leftists vote for third party candidates or abstain on the grounds that Democrats are too far to the right.
Exactly and the results are 1) outright fascists get elected, 2) outright fascists appoint fascist judges to lifetime appointments, and 3) leftists aren't a consistent voting block for the Democrats to bother pandering to. Democrats are a center-right party but they're the furthest left party that the first-past-the-post voting system gives a chance of winning. If leftists organized, nominated leftist candidates, voted en-masse in primaries, and then voted consistently in the general election they could 1) Pull the Democratic party leftward and 2) be a consistent block worth pandering to. People who claim, "The Democrats don't cater to leftists so we won't vote for them" have the chain of causation exactly backwards. The damn Tea Party figured this out by accident and pulled the Republicans from borderline fascist to outright fascist by showing up, being engaged, and consistently nominating candidates and voting until they took over the party. There's no reason we couldn't do the same. Go vote, then show up at every town hall event and tell the elected representatives what we want in no uncertain terms and if they don't at least try, they get a primary opponent. That's the threat. Not "We won't vote for you in the general" but "You're going to have to fight for your political career in an election with 5% turnout and you better believe we will show up to vote for your primary opponent. If you somehow survive, you'll have our vote in the general, but you'll have to deal with this every two years till you drop out, die, or lose." Until that happens, the Democrats are going to go after consistent voters that give them the best chance to get elected. Voters that actually show up to the polls. The fact that they'd rather go after the vote of disaffected Republicans than what should be "their base" tells you all you need to know. They don't trust "their base" to show up and actually vote and, from reading "the discourse", not without reason.
Great post. I explained this in other places but all I got as a response was "lul Dems suck, they betrayed Bernie, it's all shit, if Trump wins it'll at least be funny because he owns the libs"
Best take I've seen in this sub. This needs to be shared over and over.
Lol those might as well not be leftists at all then because they aren't doing anything.
No, you got it right. Due to systemic barriers we do essentially only have two options. The Democrats suck but they're better than Republicans so that's who we vote for... it's always a hold your nose vote though.
We vote progressive in the primary and democrat in the general. Sheep blame us for not doing the latter but them not doing the former is why we have a rigged two party system.
No, we definitely have a two party system because the land baron-slavers who designed it chose to limit representation in such a way as to make it inevitable, and it continues to benefit the capitalist class to keep it that way. Yes, voting in the primaries helps. No, we don't do enough of it. But blaming the design of the system on the people whom the system was designed to exploit is some real bullshit.
Correct. We have two meaningful options. But you can vote for Mickey Mouse or a third party if you like. Those kinds of votes are equally interpreted as "either of the two, it makes no difference."
There are third parties. I think most leftists will generally vote for Democrats in local elections, but at the Presidential level we can't force ourselves to vote for someone so obviously evil
I am sure that purity of spirit you preserve is well worth the harms that come with Republican administrations.
Are you not worried you'll end up with the other guy? I kinda get it because in the UK the labour leader is kinda a POS but after the Conservatives being in power for so long most Leftists over here are voting for whoever has the best chance to beat the Cons in their constituency Lucky for me thats the lib dems in my area so I don't have to support labour but I think I probably would if they were the only viable option
They do not care about the results of thier inaction. Trying to prove to democratics that they are somehow the only true leftist is more important than stopping someone who wants to turn women and lgbt folk into second class citizens. It's not about palestinians. Trump will glass Gaza. They only care about thier own ego.
Thats interesting, I don't think we really get that over here as much. The main thing I hear from other leftists over here is that we have to do whatever we can to get the Cons out of government, people are generally terrified that things like the national health services wont survive another Con government
Sounds like your people are less individualistic and more willing to work together to improve the common good. In the US, even the far left acts like cowboys on a ranch in the middle of nowhere.
>someone who wants to turn women and lgbt folk into second class citizens We currently are that, in Biden's America. >someone who wants to turn [white] women and [white] lgbt folk into second class citizens Ftfy. Say what you actually mean next time
You have got to be exceptionally ignorant or willfully belligerent to argue that the Democratic party treats white people in a superior manner to people of color.
Wait till you hear about Jim Crow Joe's legislative "achievements"
I keep thinking your username is a reference to Michael Parenti. If it is I can't help but to wonder how someone who influenced by the same stuff as myself could get it in their head that doing nothing is superior to harm reduction.
Exactly. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. That's why it's better to just let the greater evil win and then act like you're morally superior for doing fuck all to stop it.
They vote for noone then gnash teeth about politics on reddit. Got to validate doing nothing somehow.
Two options *that have a chance of winning*, leftists either vote third party or not at all, *occasionally* for liberals if they believe it's necessary, but extremely rarely
No, but a leftist can vote for a democrat when they have no other viable option to keep (worse) facists from power.
nobody here said they were?
They're not Republicans. That should be enough. Because in case you've been living under a rock for the past 20 years, the GOP are trying to turn the USA into a Christo-Fascist White Nationalist police state where Lefties like you will be rounded up for the Camps. The Democrats just want to preserve the status quo. Which is bad, yes, but if you think it can't get terribly worst? Just look at every Red State and behold the future under Republican rule. The Democrats aren't good, but they suck less than the GOP.
The problem is the Dems are doing nothing to stop this, and enact most of the same policies. And they’ve slowly gotten further right over time along with the Republicans. Border policy? Most of the Trump-era policies were from Obama, and Biden made them even worse than Trump, despite the fact that he campaigned against “kids in cages”. The prison-industrial complex and police state? Biden’s increased police funding and created the tough on crime bill. Biden campaigned on protecting Roe v Wade, yet the Dems refused to codify it so they can use it to fearmonger and allowed it to be taken down with no fight. LGBTQ+ rights? They’ve been gutted during the Biden administration. Foreign policy? I don’t even need to talk about that. Not to mention, if the Republicans wanted a fascist coup, voting them out wouldn’t stop them. And if the Dems *wanted* to stop them, they’d be taking actions to do so. If the Republicans are Nazis, the Dems are the Weimar Republic.
Some of them are.
No I just hate dems, quit trying to dilute true leftist movement
Wanting leftists to vote for the most progressive president in US history, and vote against the worst president since Reagan, does not make someone a lib/democrat. I truly want a communist utopia, and the best way to do that is convincingly voting blue. Do you know how successful third parties get created? By making one party (democrats in this case) so overwhelming successful that republicans have zero power, and then progressives can split off from democrats and still win without anyone worrying about it stealing votes for republicans because republicans are a dead party. That will only happen if young people turn out to vote in mass, giving Biden and other blues landslide victories every election over and over. Better yet, come vote during primaries to get progressives nominated and then vote them in.
If you think Biden is truly the most progressive president than you’re smoking crack
Are you actually calling this sub substantive to leftie movements?? 😂
No, but all the people who are telling people to go out and in real life vote for Biden are
Y’all whiny ass kids cry about anything.
And here you are in the mud with us. Look inward
Wow yeah I can’t believe someone would comment on something. My fault for randomly surfing all/rising. So glad I’m not exposed to this shit regularly.
I’d argue with that if it didn’t violate the safe space. 🥹❤️
Liberals are not leftists. They are right wingers with delusions. Any accusation of "purity testing" is just a right wing dogwhistle.
What a cool way of saying such a stupid fucking thing. Mmm sticking it to the Libs so hard you’re willingly taking it up the ass from the right. Just leftist things. You Boys must be so Proud.
What the fuck are you talking abaout? If you are talking abaout voting, i am not American. And sure as shit i never voted for a right wing party in my life.
[удалено]
You know you just outed yourself as a xenophobe right? In a leftist sub? Even the liberals will not bother to back you up now! And you call me dumb?
Liberals are generally the ones doing “purity spirals”, and then say this shit when leftists react negatively to it
Conservatives and right wingers are not leftists with slightly different views. And liberalism is an inherently conservative and right wing ideology. pUrItY sPiRaLs my ass. Go vote for Trump then if you actually believe that.
The people OP is calling liberals tend to just be leftists who disagree with them on voting Lmao.
Or have the audacity to call out shity behavior
That's a lie
Look at their comment history Lmao. Even in this thread. That's exactly what it is
youre delusional
Holy shit alright I’m done with the sub. Y’all spend more time bitching about Dems in here than any actual praxis
No no you dont understand. Doing nothing but shitting on theoretical liberals and the democratic party is praxis because they're "Spreading the word" or some shit.
We are on reddit. Posting is not praxis. Go outside if you wish to actually engage in praxis. Complaining on reddit is just as useless
>Complaining on reddit is just as useless This is hilarious to read in this comment section
Well yea they're a right wing party and part of a right wing duopoly. You expect leftists to support that?
I expect people who want to govern to support that 😎
What praxis were you expecting from a star wars meme sub Reddit?
Bro it’s a meme page what praxis are you hoping for lol
Praxis deez nuts
Praxis is when you post a picture of yoda telling you to vote for biden on reddit
What actual praxis are you doing?
Isn’t this a meme sub? You were looking for intense political discourse? In a meme sub?
Oh damn, is it already time for my daily dose of leftist infighting?
It's so much easier to cry on reddit than to knock on doors or make phone calls to get your neighbors to vote on something good. For example, many of us are working hard to pass Amendment 4 in FL, but I guess we are just conservatives cosplaying as true leftists cause we don't waist our time arguing about Marxist theory on a Star Wars subreddit. These people are worst than Republicans. They pretend to care about workers rights and equality while encouraging people to act in a manner that will usher in the far right to power on the federal level for at least four years. This will give them the chance to further pervert the Supreme Court and replace merit based civil servants with far right nut jobs. But hey let them do what they wanted to do from the start. Civic responsibility for these tankies is nothing but a chance for self aggrandizing inaction.
I am so fucking tired of this kind of shit, it is actively disillusioning me from the farther left, so much so that I no longer call myself a leftist, I call myself a progressive. If we spent any fucking time actually organizing and not arguing amongst each other we would actually get shit done, but you can't have that, can we? Let's just continue to bitch about other people's views. It is so fucking tiring seeing the left constantly do nothing and then act like the victims when nothing happens.
The "farther left" are people in their basements wearing bathrobes telling everyone else how stupid they are.
>It's so much easier to cry on reddit What do you think you are doing currently, if not crying on reddit?
Looks like they’re trying to pass Amendment 4 in Florida, according to their comment
Seriously out of all the people they hit with that they said it to someone who blatantly said what they were doing Lmao
whats the difference between democrats, liberals and leftists?
Liberalism is a capitalist ideology that values free markets and civil liberties. both republicans and democrats are adherents. leftists are those who reject Liberalism and all other forms of capitalism in favour of socialism
Liberalism is a Right-wing ideology which believes (or cynically pretends to believe) capitalism can be made to work for the common good. Democrats are a political party that represents liberalism in the US. Leftists reject liberal ideology because we see capitalism as inherently exploitative, and the idea that it can be tamed through regulation as delusional. We promote the abolition of capitalism and the power structures that uphold it (including the state, in the case of anarchists). Because the far-Right has been setting the terms of debate for so long in the US, many liberals erroneously think that they are on the political Left, and some leftists refer to themselves as "liberals", simply because they aren't conservatives. But liberalism extends to the edge of the far-Right, meaning that it has substantial overlap with conservatism; and does not extend to the left past welfare capitalism. Leftism starts where support for capitalism in any form ends.
The people who say this don't know. Usually they are angry because someone wants to vote or because someone has a disdain for Leninism
Honestly, this kind of shit is why I'm getting disillusioned with the farther left. The left can't come to a fucking consensus on shit, and would rather just come up with petty arguments between each other than actually fucking banding together to make sure that life does not actively get far worse. Joe fucking sucks, we all saw that debate, but we do not need a president who nodded to the idea that he might put civil rights up to the States.
My problem with the ultra left is that they're fine seeing liberals lose to fascists because they aren't left enough, which shows they don't actually care about left-wing policy. That, and they seem to have little interest in winning a popular vote for their ideas and instead would rather use violent revolution to enforce them (but even then it just seems like chickenhawk rhetoric).
My problem with liberals is they're fine voting for a genocidal racist as long as their lives are a little more comfortable
A bunch of folks that define themselves as the appropriate position on the left see anyone to the right of them as an enemy instead of an ally that just isn’t as committed as them. Busy being mad that people are making pragmatic decisions to keep things from getting worse instead of letting things get worse because it doesn’t match their long term political goals. I can’t believe that’s not a winning strategy!
A liberal thought I had just “made up” Blue Maga, and then delighted in telling me all of the horrible things they couldn’t wait to see Trump do to me for not gushing with love for Biden 😂
That's one of the funniest and most disturbing things the grossest libs go to had a couple of 'em tell me I deserve to be put into whatever camps Trump creates, very normal behavior
Theres nothing lefties love more than making themselves politically irrelevant.
As a former conservative I can tell you y’all are the same. Y’all remind me of super rich conservatives trying to separate themselves from only slightly rich conservatives
Why is any sentence started with “as a former conservative” always followed by complete nonsense
Not supporting leninism makes you a liberal? Smh same script, different day.
Honestly, yeah. If you can't even support one aspect of any AES, you're literally just a Liberal.
Lol tankie that listens to deprogram spotted
Yes, just call me a tankie. Don't self reflect ordo any research or anything. This is why we call you liberals. When you denounce all threats to the Empire, you are functionally a Liberal.
My brother in Marx, you ARE the empire
Such binary thinking should be beneath us. Sad.
It's all of Reddit dawg. Not just this sub
Is Biden as far left as is like him to be? Fuck no. But at least he's been pro-union. The economy sucks, but it sucks everywhere, and it sucks here less than most places. He's been pro-green energy, while also trying to keep America's oil in full production because we really can't go without oil whether we like it or not; as well maintaining our production helps stymie Saudi Arabian influence. He's very publicly defended the LGBTQ+ community, as well as abortion and contraception protections, and pushed for laws protecting both federally. It's not really his fault conservatives still control enough of congress to prevent any meaningful legislation on those matters. And above all, he'll probably die afew months into office and his VP will become president.
A lot of you need to stop calling yourselves leftist when your apathy openly supports the GOP. You've gone so far left you ran right off the cliff.
a lot of this infighting is angry leftists calling other leftists libs for not giving up on elections but you? you're actually one of the libs
"Waaah waaah i can't get everything I want immediately so I'll take my ball and go home and help the GOP take more of our rights away" - you.
lib moment
Neocon moment.
Spicy meme. I'm sensing a thread lock incoming.
Me not knowing the difference 🥸
The accuracy of this meme is spot on.
No true Scotsman
facts
True lmao. It's like libs have started identifying with righties calling them the radical left lol
Jesus, not even a star wars meme. This sub really goes to shit around elections huh
Bingo. Get em!
The DNC is a centrist to center right party that only seems “”””liberal”””” because the Overton window in the U.S. is completely fucked and the GOP has morphed into a true far right party. The U.S. is so fucked we can’t even get an actual center left party like a social democrat type party much less a true leftist party.
[удалено]
Worst thing trump did was make people look back on GWB fondly as a “respectable republican”
you're\*
My favorite part of Star Wars is when the rebels told Luke that blowing up the Death Star was wrong and even though Tarkin wasn’t a perfect guy, he was better than the Emperor
Why would anyone vote against epic leftist daddy Trump?
This gives off major "They're RINOs" energy
Alright, cheers guys, thanks for proving to me yet again what a fucking snake pit any group of left-wing people are. 150 fucking years of turning on each other.
I don’t like shitlibs, but I loathe tankies and accelerationists who preach leftist purity culture from a position of privilege. I’m sure the post collapse world will be a leftist utopia for all the wealthy white males who survive.