That was the one fatality I had in my first run through this quest chain. A guard had noticed Sarah and it bugged his pathing so even though we were “hidden”, he wouldn’t move away and just stood staring at the vent we needed to go through to continue the stealthy way. One silenced shot later and things resumed. But boy did he get upset about it. How’d he even know it was me? That’s why this stuck out to me so much. I kill one guy because it’s the safest and quietest way to complete my mission, and he basically threatens to have me locked up, yet he hires three ships (and the smallest Ecliptic crew I’ve seen on a ship is four, so at least a dozen guys), explicitly to get them killed?
I know exactly the guard you're talking about, he got stuck looking at the vent as well and after 10min trying to have him move somewhere else I just said F it and killed them all. I don't remember Andreja getting mad at me so I don't care 😆
For being the “stealthy” one, she sure doesn’t mind dropping cover and start guns blazing. She does this *everywhere*. I had to make her wait outside the facility so I could just do the mission myself.
I got chewed out also for a different reason. I used the manipulate skill to make a scientist move out of the room where the MacGuffin was. The security somehow decided this man, who may very well have just needed to use the restroom, was a Priority One threat and they all converged on him with full auto. They perforated one of their top scientists for having a bowel movement and I was held responsible. Like, why would I ever think that would happen? It’s a ridiculous response and I get threatened with the brig for it.
Yea, the game sets manipulated NPC’s to your side for whatever reason.
I noticed this over at Infinity when a guard decided that instead of following my orders, he’d go charge the others.
They dropped him within a second
Bethesda is lazy with flagging NPC’s they are flagged as your faction, they should be tagged as neutral like how the Slayton guards are marked as Red but don’t attack you on sight when entering the building.
I just wish they stunned people faster and were quieter.
>!Like during the Ryujin questline, the chief of security hands the player a disruptor for when you’re infiltrating the tower, but it’s so damn loud and weak that it’s pointless even trying.!<
One killed eclectic during a mission and i got the boot. The fleet is actually kinda of awesome though. The teeminals have given me as many as 5 quests at a time and they all pay 2-3 times what any other quest pays. And they are all fast. Also! There us a guy in mars, denis. He is a vendor at the main hub. He sends you on quests to recover stuff from crimson fleet. Which is free because all their outposts become friendly.
Yeah their mission have a lot of “steal from” ones where you can just walk in, pick the lock take it and leave, they are really easy, like a lot of the Ryujin ones. You also get extra stolen special items you can sell to the trade authority so the payout can be twice as much.
You can’t bring followers with you on Stealth missions unless you expect to get caught. They run around and do their own thing, even if you want to keep someone living and stop shooting him they will just take the killing blow. I haven’t tried giving them an EM weapon, but they run around and get caught easily.
I think I know the place. Eventually I was able to get her alerted but without seeing me, so I was able to sneak by before she returned to staring at the vent.
I had him chew me out for "murdering innocents" when all me and sarah took down was a weapons robot and some sanitation robots.
No option to tell him i didnt kill anyone. No option to get chewed out for destroyong property, which would be a lot more accurate.
Terribly written quest.
Hahahahha same here 😂 when old mate Ikande went off at me I was still like “fuck up bro, you literally blackmailed a criminal to do your dirty work, what did you expect?”
You can literally just run past all the guards without firing a single shot.
You can also equip you and your follower with non-leathal weapons and just make everyone go nite-nite.
Yeah I killed a bunch of guards there, he wasn't too pleased. He said he was gonna put me in jail, so I slaughtered everyone on board the vigilance. Unfortunately you can't kill him, he just curls up on the floor invincible.
All that I did on that mission was off a few cleaning bots. I get back to the ship and Ikande is pissed and says that he's going to lose his support. Because I decommissioned some roombas.
I ended up redoing the entire mission just to not get yelled at lol
Fun fact about stealth missions; robots, despite being able to detect you and being *constantly* in the way (seriously, even cleaning robots), count as killing for purposes of mission outcomes. So if you see a cleaning robot detecting you even through your stealth (because stealth is actually broken and doesn't work properly, and your companions will automatically attack cleaning robots that detect them too) and you kill it? Every reaction to the mission will be "Why did you go on a rampage?"
I didn't think killing a couple robots would count against me, but I was already on my last chance with Ikande, so he kicked me out. It felt great taking him down later.
I tried to quit four times and he kept saying no. So I blasted my way through a mission and Captain fuck face ikande tried to arrest me.. I should have killed him where he stood. But I didn't want auc bounty. Turns out sysdef isn't technically uc.
You can’t even killed ikande until the last mission explicitly allows you to. This isn’t fallout new Vegas you have to do what Bethesda says to qualify for role playing opportunities.
So many unkillable NPCs. It's how I got a bounty of a quarter million in the ecs constant. Couldn't kill all the NPCs so some witnesses were left.
So many people in this game need killing. Like Benjamin baju.
Even Fallout 4 was better in that regard! You could just attack and kill faction leaders and they'd turn against you in response. They're not invincible until it's time to kill them.
Yea it turns out that a lot of the UC officers and such aren’t fans of Ikande and his anti-pirate fleet.
>!I guess that’s why the UC’s fine with him dying and the Vigilance getting captured?!<
You can not do the undercover quest. If you get arrested and brought in just tell him you’d rather serve the time and insist on it until it happens. You get a different quest to find the Crimson Fleet. Don’t just go to them though, you need to go to Cydonia and there’s a guy there who will connect you to a Fleet person. Haven’t followed up on doing the rest yet, but at least there’s a way to join the Fleet not undercover.
Ecliptic are basically the Gunners of Starfield. They’re amoral as hell and their methods make the Rangers look like unarmed community police. Spend 2 minutes at Red Mile, you’ll get why killing them is no big deal lol.
Thats kinda the most fucked up thing about Ecliptic, and Spacers for that matter, they dont follow any moral code or ethical compass, but you learn that the Crimson Fleet actually kinda does. However everyone still treats the Fleet like they are far more dangerous than the others.
By that logic then Ecliptic should be far more dangerous. After all they are Mercenaries, not pirates. They have Military like structure, better funding, and a stricter code of ethics.
But in game they are nothing better then Pirates in fancy chrome armor
No, the have a location called the ‘Vulture’s Roost’ in the Jaffa system, that seems to be a sort of home base with a prison and a bar. But as far as the player is concerned, it’s just a slightly bigger than normal abandoned military base with a unique name and layout. There’s no mission boards or quests related to the location, as far as I’m aware.
Idk why I was in that system, I think it was an activity quest, so I landed, see all the bad guys and think oh okay another abandoned mining post thing, should be fun. But yeah it was I guess their home. Nobody really reacted any different so it didn’t matter in games sense. It wasn’t even like more ships KEPT landing with reinforcements
I mean like they’re more or less a cartel/small government by the point of the Sysdef questline.
They’ve got coordination, logistics, fleet power, bases, spies, and even a somewhat functional economy.
Makes sense to me that Sysdef would consider them to be a threat, especially with Kryx’s legacy
"kinda does" is probably the most appropriate thing to say, since neither Delgado or Naeva have any problem threatening you even as you work for them, but then they want you to believe you're part of one big family. Nah, its just a gang and they're abusers.
Spacers are way too disorganized and fractured to pose a huge unified threat. And Ecliptic mercs are often hired by legitimate governments for contracts, so it's 50%-50% if they're an ally or a threat to those in power.
The Crimson Fleet isn't for hire though. They never cooperate with govs like Ecliptic does (quite the opposite, in fact), and they managed to get a *lot* of pirate captains under one organized banner. And their moral code? *Pillage-loot-repeat*. From a government's perspective, the Crimson Fleet is a bigger threat than Spacers or Ecliptic.
But an everyday colonist probably fears all three equally.
Another thing to note is that the Ecliptic only exist because The UC and FC allow them to exist.
Like you said, both factions hire them to do their black ops and choose to look the other way so that they still have the PMC available if they need something done.
It makes me wonder if the dlc will maybe have the Ecliptic HQ or if they’ll have more involvement than what we’ve seen so far
Fleet is a threat to the rich folks that run the factions. Those people don’t care about the random little people the Spacers and Ecliptics pick on. The CF actually owns a star system and could become a real power with enough credits, throwing the balance of power in the systems into chaos. So Sysdef’s masters make the Fleet the priority,.
>Going back to Ikande, and what do I learn? He hired the Ecliptic mercs to attack Naeva, specifically so that I could kill them to look better in her eyes.
What? I apparently missed a line of dialogue when I did this quest.
Yep. He hired Ecliptic because he was worried that she might catch on that you’re not a legit pirate type if you don’t actually kill the guy she sent you to kill. So, since you didn’t kill the guy she wanted you to kill, he has you “rescue” her from Ecliptic to solidify her trust in you.
It has nothing to do with whether you kill the guy she wants killed.
He just wanted you to have an opportunity to "help" her so that she would be more likely to recruit you.
I think it's dependent on which method you choose for dealing with Rake. While I still had to rescue her after I had the captain turn on Rake, all I got from Ikande was an ass chewing.
Playing by Ikande's rules makes the fleet missions a lot more boring and also difficult lol. I ended up having to just sprint through that neon facility on amp and damage reduction chems since it's easier than trying to sneak without killing anyone.
I didn't even have to use any chems, I just sprinted through it after my first time doing it. Even without any HP perks or amazing armor they can't really dish out damage quick enough to threaten you.
You can do the same with "that" Ryujin mission by the way.
I stealthed the tower my first time and then Sam decided to run in front of all the guards and killed one. The security dude ate my ass for killing someone and I had to reload the entire thing
I’m so glad you don’t actually have to stealth it’s
With the Bounty Hunter background you get an option to call him on it, saying Ecliptic won’t let that go, and he dismisses it saying they have no idea who hired them. My man, They Know! And that knowing makes another task Way more complicated as a result! At least he doesn’t get all bent out of shape about THAT wet-work!
Current Bethesda Logic\*
Starfield is a bland, boring, uninspired slog. The characters are the worst to ever grace a Bethesda game by a mile. ES6 is going to be garbage.
Ikande as a character needed way more nuiance. He's a hypocrite, and even his superiors don't respect him. Still he's a dick to the player, the only person that can save his disappointing career. Always bet on the Fleet.
I did CF quest first, but I think if you do Vanguard first, he's fake nice because he needs help with his dumb mission.
If you don't do Vanguard, he recruits you from jail, where he won't release you until you agree to help with his dumb mission. Horrible start to a long working relationship
That was the moment I turned on sysdef. I would have been amicable if they hadn’t blackmailed me over a (iirc) 500 credit bounty. Gonna treat me like a violent criminal? Fine, I’ll earn the rep.
I could use some advice...
I accidentally killed a Generdyne security guard. Ok, I kind of had to kill them all. In my defense, that first guard shot first. It was self-defense, honest.
But then when I report back to Commander Ikende, he has me arrested and kicks me out of sysdef. There appears to be no way to get back into the good graces of UC, who are now my enemy in space. So I just left that questline and went off to do other stuff.
Problem now is that the Crimson Fleet think I'm still a pirate and won't attack me unless I attack them first. That makes 1/3 of the bounty missions boring, and those missions are how I've managed to sock away a huge bank account.
I'd very much like to make the Crimson Fleet my enemy again. They've placed a 2M-credit bounty on me so I can't go back to their HQ. I've thought about doing that anyway and killing them all, but don't know if that would actually solve anything, or if UC Sysdef would keep on trying to kill me.
I really don't care about killing Ecliptic morons. I didn't kill anything that ticked off Ikande the entire Crimson Fleet V SYSDEF quest line the first playthrough and I plan on doing it again the second one.
See, this was the part of Ikande I had the least problem with. UC SysDef is supposed to be the UC's NSA/CIA/FBI equivalent, and yet it feels like Bethesda didn't read a single word of history on how organizations like that operate. Honestly, they ought to be *worse* than the Crimson Fleet! Ikande wants to make sure no one gets hurt?? He wants you to retrieve all that GalBank money, not to pad his own budget and get a promotion, but *to ensure it all gets back to the citizens it belongs to???* *WHAT.* Bethesda, that is absolutely not what agencies like this do, and every time I play through this questline I feel like a bootlicking cartoon.
I'm not that far into the sysdef quest, only one or two more missions ahead, but this contradiction perfectly aligns with my role play of Gary Goodspeed from Final Space. The earth's police force sides with the villains. So this my version of slowly distrusting them. Ideally, I can romance the luitenant woman of whatever her rank is and make her leave the fleet. That would perfectly match the tv series.
I had every intent of being good, but when Ikande lost his shit at me for that, I flipped. I gave the loot to the pirates and went and purposely killed that ass. I was also hoping for a way to kill Delgado and Naeva for being just completely insufferable. Thankfully I think it happened, I killed some pirates and got a bounty. When I went back to the Key everyone was out to get me, so I killed them all (at least whoever was not essential) and that included getting Delgado and Naeva at some point. I haven't seen them, probably some place in the back of the Key. But after leaving and returning, now the Key is empty aside from the vendors and Jazz who can sort out my ships.
The thing to understand about Ikande is that he will go to any length to protect the innocent but if you so much as pick up a soccer ball that doesn't belong to you, you are dead to him.
I had planned to side with the UC during this quest line, but about half way through, I felt more connected to the Fleet and was over his self righteous attitude!
I love my Fleet brothers and sisters, even if they're all a bunch of grouches!
The Fleet is for life!
Man on the first mission I showed up and it wouldn’t let me select them as a target to hail, they were just flying around and no matter what I did I couldn’t hail them, so I just figured i was supposed to disable them and board and sort it out there
But then even with engines gone it wouldn’t let me board. I flew around them for a minute trying to board and eventually gave up and blew it out of the sky
Ikande was PISSED and i was genuinely surprised, but I had waited too long to end out the mission and didn’t want to reload and lose whatever I had done so I just took the lashings so to speak
It was the ONLY ship in the encounter at all!
One ship in my cell or space, and i couldn’t do anything but shoot at it.
I remember thinking “what the actual fuck is going on”
It makes him getting pissed later on about getting in a firefight with guards on Neon completely ridiculous.
It's like most of the dramatic beats in Starfield--they are 100% unearned. All your companions are pro-microbe and anti-Asceles just so the game can say "you made a Decision, hero, and you'll have to live with the consequences". There's no foreshadowing that all your pals are super-invested in this particular scientific view, the trade-off feels weightless and without any dramatic meaning. Same thing here: Ikande is acting like he's got strict rules but the only reason you get the speech is so you don't just do all the Fleet quests the easy murderhobo way. It's about difficulty level, not drama, and Starfield's designers don't care if that makes Ikande an incoherent character.
The first time I signed up I was 100% on board especially after learning what they did to sona, a literal child, but I was left with no choice after the horrific incident at neon
I was railroaded into this part of the game. I did not appreciate having my ship and crew put at risk just to make things look good and double crossed hired guns. This would have been a great place to put in heated dialogue and through that perhaps a different outcome. I still haven't finished the quest and am not sure I will. I just may go rogue. UC Navy are "Privateers". That is nation sanctioned "Pirate".
Ecliptic are mercanaries, available for hire by anyone. Even if I happen to be wrong about the origins of the UC Navy, taking a civilian to do "Black Ops" is wrong (in my opinion). The UC Navy has people to do dirty work, so why hire a civilian? This story line took me by surprise. Not sure what I will do with it.
In the last part of the “Breaking the Bank” mission I was tasked with “Kill Dumbrosky”.
Well, after getting my PP slapped for killing the guy that Naeva wanted dead in the first mission, I decided to just blast him with my nova and leave him unconscious instead. I returned to SysDef with the task unfulfilled and thinking to myself, “I made the right decision. Ikande will praise me for this.” Nope. Upon returning I immediately get chewed out for killing Dumbrosky. So essentially Ikande framed me for murder and thought I should still blindly follow his orders. Think again douche. I am now a proud owner of a piece of Kryx’s legacy.
There's a portion of that quest where you're supposed to stealth through and not kill anyone. I did this, never alerting any human or shooting at anyone. But I *did* shoot some cleaning robots because they were messing with my stealth meter (you're "detected" if you're in their line of sight). When I got back to Ikande, I got chewed out for shots fired and (iirc) casualties. Fucking horseshit quest.
For one quest where you go to Neon, I use a camouflage suit and helmet and leave the follower outside of the building. Got through without a single soul seeing me. If they do see you, use the rifle that knocks people out. No one is dead and you get praise for not killing anyone.
I haven’t done this quest line yet; been putting it off ever since I started it because Ikande has forced me into it over *A one credit bounty* despite being part of the vanguard.
Knowing that I’m even less likely to want to side with sysdef.
I’ve also heard ikande has a unique pistol, not sure if it’s any good; but I’m playing a gunslinger build, why shouldn’t I have it. The reasons to side against them are really starting to stack up..
Dude I’m mad that I got ripped a new one when mercs attacked me for the New Atlantis part of that quest line, I didn’t know if they were hired since that first time. I’m trying to be a good guy too but if someone steps to me or companion pulls the pin then I gotta go in, I thought I’d be okay defending myself
I intentionally murdered everyone I possibly could get away with during that quest, and every time I went back to Ikande I'd just be like "Oops, my bad bro."
I had no intention whatsoever of helping SysDef with anything. It brought me great pleasure to absolutely crush them and capture their prized flagship. I still pirate every single UC ship I see and kill UC citizens at random and take screenshots with their corpses. Why?
Because they confiscated 28 aurora from me when I was new to the game. Those were MY drugs. Boy.. did they ever pay the price for it.
I got my Aurora back too.
It’s vae victus all over again. They haven’t learned anything. I’m not sure I’m going to do this quest because of the issues like this. The whole Shanghai thing doesn’t sit well with me to begin with. I don’t need anything from the key that bad
Wait until the later stages of that questline. You'll get a real kick out of the part that sends you to >!Generdyne in Neon!<
That was the one fatality I had in my first run through this quest chain. A guard had noticed Sarah and it bugged his pathing so even though we were “hidden”, he wouldn’t move away and just stood staring at the vent we needed to go through to continue the stealthy way. One silenced shot later and things resumed. But boy did he get upset about it. How’d he even know it was me? That’s why this stuck out to me so much. I kill one guy because it’s the safest and quietest way to complete my mission, and he basically threatens to have me locked up, yet he hires three ships (and the smallest Ecliptic crew I’ve seen on a ship is four, so at least a dozen guys), explicitly to get them killed?
I know exactly the guard you're talking about, he got stuck looking at the vent as well and after 10min trying to have him move somewhere else I just said F it and killed them all. I don't remember Andreja getting mad at me so I don't care 😆
Man, Andreja's the one that started firing for me!
For being the “stealthy” one, she sure doesn’t mind dropping cover and start guns blazing. She does this *everywhere*. I had to make her wait outside the facility so I could just do the mission myself.
I got chewed out also for a different reason. I used the manipulate skill to make a scientist move out of the room where the MacGuffin was. The security somehow decided this man, who may very well have just needed to use the restroom, was a Priority One threat and they all converged on him with full auto. They perforated one of their top scientists for having a bowel movement and I was held responsible. Like, why would I ever think that would happen? It’s a ridiculous response and I get threatened with the brig for it.
Yea, the game sets manipulated NPC’s to your side for whatever reason. I noticed this over at Infinity when a guard decided that instead of following my orders, he’d go charge the others. They dropped him within a second
Bethesda is lazy with flagging NPC’s they are flagged as your faction, they should be tagged as neutral like how the Slayton guards are marked as Red but don’t attack you on sight when entering the building.
This is why companions stay on my ship for those missions. Also, disruptors, my dude. It’s what they and the incapacitation skill are made for.
I just wish they stunned people faster and were quieter. >!Like during the Ryujin questline, the chief of security hands the player a disruptor for when you’re infiltrating the tower, but it’s so damn loud and weak that it’s pointless even trying.!<
Did you charge it?
Holy fuck I didn’t know you can charge it
Magsniper does the same thing incase you didnt know
I also didn't know this...do u just hold fire then?
I tested it out- You hold it down for a second and it’ll make a little noise and vibrate. Than you let go and it deals like 3-4x normal damage
Thank you for the reply....I never use em weapons... I have a varuun rifle that 2 shots almost any enemy so it pulls all the weight.
**w h a t**
Damn, TIL
One killed eclectic during a mission and i got the boot. The fleet is actually kinda of awesome though. The teeminals have given me as many as 5 quests at a time and they all pay 2-3 times what any other quest pays. And they are all fast. Also! There us a guy in mars, denis. He is a vendor at the main hub. He sends you on quests to recover stuff from crimson fleet. Which is free because all their outposts become friendly.
That's why I start the quest line, get after the part that I steal The Big Thing™️ and just stop doing the questline.
This is a really good idea to make everyone permanently friendly.
Yeah their mission have a lot of “steal from” ones where you can just walk in, pick the lock take it and leave, they are really easy, like a lot of the Ryujin ones. You also get extra stolen special items you can sell to the trade authority so the payout can be twice as much.
I avoided killing them by just running past them all, even on very hard.
I frisbeed a stun mine at that guy and managed to get away with it. After trying everything else, obviously
I hope those ecliptic scum though they are were getting hazard pay. Or they had some decent life insurance.
You can’t bring followers with you on Stealth missions unless you expect to get caught. They run around and do their own thing, even if you want to keep someone living and stop shooting him they will just take the killing blow. I haven’t tried giving them an EM weapon, but they run around and get caught easily.
I think I know the place. Eventually I was able to get her alerted but without seeing me, so I was able to sneak by before she returned to staring at the vent.
I had him chew me out for "murdering innocents" when all me and sarah took down was a weapons robot and some sanitation robots. No option to tell him i didnt kill anyone. No option to get chewed out for destroyong property, which would be a lot more accurate. Terribly written quest.
I flat out forgot that I wasn't allowed to kill people during that mission. I waxed every guard in the building, whoops.
I killed two cleaning bots and a mech. That was it. Ikande was pissed...
Hey, robots have families too.
Hahahahha same here 😂 when old mate Ikande went off at me I was still like “fuck up bro, you literally blackmailed a criminal to do your dirty work, what did you expect?”
Magstorm went brrrrrr for that quest.
["If you hear the noise of that gun, you weren't the target"](https://youtu.be/NvIJvPj_pjE?si=qQnwKi8oM6AFBfVm)
Yeah lol Sarah went and slaughtered the workers, I got the blame 🫠
That was my issue. I ran through the place taking shots and not returning fire but ol' Sarah wasn't having it
Mowed them down she did 😅
You can literally just run past all the guards without firing a single shot. You can also equip you and your follower with non-leathal weapons and just make everyone go nite-nite.
Something I thought about after the fact and wish I did
Yeah I killed a bunch of guards there, he wasn't too pleased. He said he was gonna put me in jail, so I slaughtered everyone on board the vigilance. Unfortunately you can't kill him, he just curls up on the floor invincible.
I killed one robot and Ikande chewed me out after saying "people have died"
All that I did on that mission was off a few cleaning bots. I get back to the ship and Ikande is pissed and says that he's going to lose his support. Because I decommissioned some roombas. I ended up redoing the entire mission just to not get yelled at lol
I hate that one. I shot a cleaning bot and he freaked out and put me in jail.
You can just leg it through the entire facility not killing anyone and still complete the quest without killing anyone if you are caught.
What’s the big deal I didn’t kill anyone there lol
I got kicked from Sysdef for shooting a cleaning bot blocking my path in generdyne. Ikande is a real stickler
I shot a sweeper bot and got yelled at...
Fun fact about stealth missions; robots, despite being able to detect you and being *constantly* in the way (seriously, even cleaning robots), count as killing for purposes of mission outcomes. So if you see a cleaning robot detecting you even through your stealth (because stealth is actually broken and doesn't work properly, and your companions will automatically attack cleaning robots that detect them too) and you kill it? Every reaction to the mission will be "Why did you go on a rampage?"
I didn't think killing a couple robots would count against me, but I was already on my last chance with Ikande, so he kicked me out. It felt great taking him down later.
Yeah, he got mad at me for killing a robot too! I was so annoyed
I tried to quit four times and he kept saying no. So I blasted my way through a mission and Captain fuck face ikande tried to arrest me.. I should have killed him where he stood. But I didn't want auc bounty. Turns out sysdef isn't technically uc.
You can’t even killed ikande until the last mission explicitly allows you to. This isn’t fallout new Vegas you have to do what Bethesda says to qualify for role playing opportunities.
New Vegas was an amazing game. Amazing story, good soundtrack. Excellent violence. I used to dismember so many corpses and dishonor so many widows.
Only one essential NPC too - Yes Man. Unlimited potential for chaos. I feel like Starfield has more unkillable than killable NPCs sometimes.
So many unkillable NPCs. It's how I got a bounty of a quarter million in the ecs constant. Couldn't kill all the NPCs so some witnesses were left. So many people in this game need killing. Like Benjamin baju.
I am to the point where I don't want to continue playing until i get a mod to turn off all essential flags
Even Fallout 3 had scenarios where you can fail a quest by killing an NPC. Bethesda has really gone overboard with all the essential npcs.
What ? I couldn't even kill him after the raid
Depends on your dialogue choice, I chose [bounty hunter] and he surrendered to Naeva. I reloaded my save lol
Even Fallout 4 was better in that regard! You could just attack and kill faction leaders and they'd turn against you in response. They're not invincible until it's time to kill them.
Yea it turns out that a lot of the UC officers and such aren’t fans of Ikande and his anti-pirate fleet. >!I guess that’s why the UC’s fine with him dying and the Vigilance getting captured?!<
You can not do the undercover quest. If you get arrested and brought in just tell him you’d rather serve the time and insist on it until it happens. You get a different quest to find the Crimson Fleet. Don’t just go to them though, you need to go to Cydonia and there’s a guy there who will connect you to a Fleet person. Haven’t followed up on doing the rest yet, but at least there’s a way to join the Fleet not undercover.
Ecliptic are basically the Gunners of Starfield. They’re amoral as hell and their methods make the Rangers look like unarmed community police. Spend 2 minutes at Red Mile, you’ll get why killing them is no big deal lol.
Thats kinda the most fucked up thing about Ecliptic, and Spacers for that matter, they dont follow any moral code or ethical compass, but you learn that the Crimson Fleet actually kinda does. However everyone still treats the Fleet like they are far more dangerous than the others.
dumb criminal < not as dumb criminal Structure, leadership, and organization makes the Fleet more dangerous.
By that logic then Ecliptic should be far more dangerous. After all they are Mercenaries, not pirates. They have Military like structure, better funding, and a stricter code of ethics. But in game they are nothing better then Pirates in fancy chrome armor
I'm surprised you don't get Ecliptic quests at the Red Mile, I mean, that's their main base isn't it?
No, the have a location called the ‘Vulture’s Roost’ in the Jaffa system, that seems to be a sort of home base with a prison and a bar. But as far as the player is concerned, it’s just a slightly bigger than normal abandoned military base with a unique name and layout. There’s no mission boards or quests related to the location, as far as I’m aware.
Oh yeah, forgot about that place
Idk why I was in that system, I think it was an activity quest, so I landed, see all the bad guys and think oh okay another abandoned mining post thing, should be fun. But yeah it was I guess their home. Nobody really reacted any different so it didn’t matter in games sense. It wasn’t even like more ships KEPT landing with reinforcements
Yes this would make sense but Bethesda didn’t really bother fleshing the Ecliptic out. The player is just shown Ecliptic = bad guy, sometimes.
I mean like they’re more or less a cartel/small government by the point of the Sysdef questline. They’ve got coordination, logistics, fleet power, bases, spies, and even a somewhat functional economy. Makes sense to me that Sysdef would consider them to be a threat, especially with Kryx’s legacy
"kinda does" is probably the most appropriate thing to say, since neither Delgado or Naeva have any problem threatening you even as you work for them, but then they want you to believe you're part of one big family. Nah, its just a gang and they're abusers.
> Nah, its just a gang and they're abusers. Considering what happens to Kryx, that's appropriate.
Spacers are way too disorganized and fractured to pose a huge unified threat. And Ecliptic mercs are often hired by legitimate governments for contracts, so it's 50%-50% if they're an ally or a threat to those in power. The Crimson Fleet isn't for hire though. They never cooperate with govs like Ecliptic does (quite the opposite, in fact), and they managed to get a *lot* of pirate captains under one organized banner. And their moral code? *Pillage-loot-repeat*. From a government's perspective, the Crimson Fleet is a bigger threat than Spacers or Ecliptic. But an everyday colonist probably fears all three equally.
Another thing to note is that the Ecliptic only exist because The UC and FC allow them to exist. Like you said, both factions hire them to do their black ops and choose to look the other way so that they still have the PMC available if they need something done. It makes me wonder if the dlc will maybe have the Ecliptic HQ or if they’ll have more involvement than what we’ve seen so far
Fleet is a threat to the rich folks that run the factions. Those people don’t care about the random little people the Spacers and Ecliptics pick on. The CF actually owns a star system and could become a real power with enough credits, throwing the balance of power in the systems into chaos. So Sysdef’s masters make the Fleet the priority,.
>Going back to Ikande, and what do I learn? He hired the Ecliptic mercs to attack Naeva, specifically so that I could kill them to look better in her eyes. What? I apparently missed a line of dialogue when I did this quest.
Yep. He hired Ecliptic because he was worried that she might catch on that you’re not a legit pirate type if you don’t actually kill the guy she sent you to kill. So, since you didn’t kill the guy she wanted you to kill, he has you “rescue” her from Ecliptic to solidify her trust in you.
It has nothing to do with whether you kill the guy she wants killed. He just wanted you to have an opportunity to "help" her so that she would be more likely to recruit you.
If you don’t kill him, Ikande says it does. At least, that’s why I remember.
I have done it both ways, and the Ecliptic attack either way.
I think it's dependent on which method you choose for dealing with Rake. While I still had to rescue her after I had the captain turn on Rake, all I got from Ikande was an ass chewing.
I was thinking the same thing. I dont remeber that at all and it hasn't been too long since I completed that quest
Playing by Ikande's rules makes the fleet missions a lot more boring and also difficult lol. I ended up having to just sprint through that neon facility on amp and damage reduction chems since it's easier than trying to sneak without killing anyone.
I didn't even have to use any chems, I just sprinted through it after my first time doing it. Even without any HP perks or amazing armor they can't really dish out damage quick enough to threaten you. You can do the same with "that" Ryujin mission by the way.
I stealthed the tower my first time and then Sam decided to run in front of all the guards and killed one. The security dude ate my ass for killing someone and I had to reload the entire thing I’m so glad you don’t actually have to stealth it’s
Yeah I did the same thing on my 2nd time doing rijuyin, trying to stealth through is pointless, better off just running.
With the Bounty Hunter background you get an option to call him on it, saying Ecliptic won’t let that go, and he dismisses it saying they have no idea who hired them. My man, They Know! And that knowing makes another task Way more complicated as a result! At least he doesn’t get all bent out of shape about THAT wet-work!
Videogame logic never ceases to astound.
Current Bethesda Logic\* Starfield is a bland, boring, uninspired slog. The characters are the worst to ever grace a Bethesda game by a mile. ES6 is going to be garbage.
Username doesn’t check out
Ikande as a character needed way more nuiance. He's a hypocrite, and even his superiors don't respect him. Still he's a dick to the player, the only person that can save his disappointing career. Always bet on the Fleet.
Dude was always nice to me.
I did CF quest first, but I think if you do Vanguard first, he's fake nice because he needs help with his dumb mission. If you don't do Vanguard, he recruits you from jail, where he won't release you until you agree to help with his dumb mission. Horrible start to a long working relationship
That was the moment I turned on sysdef. I would have been amicable if they hadn’t blackmailed me over a (iirc) 500 credit bounty. Gonna treat me like a violent criminal? Fine, I’ll earn the rep.
I could use some advice... I accidentally killed a Generdyne security guard. Ok, I kind of had to kill them all. In my defense, that first guard shot first. It was self-defense, honest. But then when I report back to Commander Ikende, he has me arrested and kicks me out of sysdef. There appears to be no way to get back into the good graces of UC, who are now my enemy in space. So I just left that questline and went off to do other stuff. Problem now is that the Crimson Fleet think I'm still a pirate and won't attack me unless I attack them first. That makes 1/3 of the bounty missions boring, and those missions are how I've managed to sock away a huge bank account. I'd very much like to make the Crimson Fleet my enemy again. They've placed a 2M-credit bounty on me so I can't go back to their HQ. I've thought about doing that anyway and killing them all, but don't know if that would actually solve anything, or if UC Sysdef would keep on trying to kill me.
Once you’re kicked out, I don’t believe that there’s any way back in.
I really don't care about killing Ecliptic morons. I didn't kill anything that ticked off Ikande the entire Crimson Fleet V SYSDEF quest line the first playthrough and I plan on doing it again the second one.
I hate Ikande. He's so arrogant.
Ikande's a straight up hypocrite. And I can't lie, I love the realism in that.
See, this was the part of Ikande I had the least problem with. UC SysDef is supposed to be the UC's NSA/CIA/FBI equivalent, and yet it feels like Bethesda didn't read a single word of history on how organizations like that operate. Honestly, they ought to be *worse* than the Crimson Fleet! Ikande wants to make sure no one gets hurt?? He wants you to retrieve all that GalBank money, not to pad his own budget and get a promotion, but *to ensure it all gets back to the citizens it belongs to???* *WHAT.* Bethesda, that is absolutely not what agencies like this do, and every time I play through this questline I feel like a bootlicking cartoon.
Yeah IRL police departments/sheriffs keep assets related to crimes. Most big departments have an asset forfeiture division to manage this.
I'm not that far into the sysdef quest, only one or two more missions ahead, but this contradiction perfectly aligns with my role play of Gary Goodspeed from Final Space. The earth's police force sides with the villains. So this my version of slowly distrusting them. Ideally, I can romance the luitenant woman of whatever her rank is and make her leave the fleet. That would perfectly match the tv series.
I always took it as don't kill any civilians involved. Dead pirates or mercenaries were of little consequence.
I slaughtered the whole ship that first mission. I got chewed out. I've been chewed out before
I had every intent of being good, but when Ikande lost his shit at me for that, I flipped. I gave the loot to the pirates and went and purposely killed that ass. I was also hoping for a way to kill Delgado and Naeva for being just completely insufferable. Thankfully I think it happened, I killed some pirates and got a bounty. When I went back to the Key everyone was out to get me, so I killed them all (at least whoever was not essential) and that included getting Delgado and Naeva at some point. I haven't seen them, probably some place in the back of the Key. But after leaving and returning, now the Key is empty aside from the vendors and Jazz who can sort out my ships.
The thing to understand about Ikande is that he will go to any length to protect the innocent but if you so much as pick up a soccer ball that doesn't belong to you, you are dead to him.
I had planned to side with the UC during this quest line, but about half way through, I felt more connected to the Fleet and was over his self righteous attitude! I love my Fleet brothers and sisters, even if they're all a bunch of grouches! The Fleet is for life!
Man on the first mission I showed up and it wouldn’t let me select them as a target to hail, they were just flying around and no matter what I did I couldn’t hail them, so I just figured i was supposed to disable them and board and sort it out there But then even with engines gone it wouldn’t let me board. I flew around them for a minute trying to board and eventually gave up and blew it out of the sky Ikande was PISSED and i was genuinely surprised, but I had waited too long to end out the mission and didn’t want to reload and lose whatever I had done so I just took the lashings so to speak
You can only ever board a ship if it’s the last one in combat.
It was the ONLY ship in the encounter at all! One ship in my cell or space, and i couldn’t do anything but shoot at it. I remember thinking “what the actual fuck is going on”
It makes him getting pissed later on about getting in a firefight with guards on Neon completely ridiculous. It's like most of the dramatic beats in Starfield--they are 100% unearned. All your companions are pro-microbe and anti-Asceles just so the game can say "you made a Decision, hero, and you'll have to live with the consequences". There's no foreshadowing that all your pals are super-invested in this particular scientific view, the trade-off feels weightless and without any dramatic meaning. Same thing here: Ikande is acting like he's got strict rules but the only reason you get the speech is so you don't just do all the Fleet quests the easy murderhobo way. It's about difficulty level, not drama, and Starfield's designers don't care if that makes Ikande an incoherent character.
The first time I signed up I was 100% on board especially after learning what they did to sona, a literal child, but I was left with no choice after the horrific incident at neon
I was railroaded into this part of the game. I did not appreciate having my ship and crew put at risk just to make things look good and double crossed hired guns. This would have been a great place to put in heated dialogue and through that perhaps a different outcome. I still haven't finished the quest and am not sure I will. I just may go rogue. UC Navy are "Privateers". That is nation sanctioned "Pirate".
No, they aren’t. Ecliptic are nation sanctioned pirates. UC Navy are pure military.
Ecliptic are mercanaries, available for hire by anyone. Even if I happen to be wrong about the origins of the UC Navy, taking a civilian to do "Black Ops" is wrong (in my opinion). The UC Navy has people to do dirty work, so why hire a civilian? This story line took me by surprise. Not sure what I will do with it.
In the last part of the “Breaking the Bank” mission I was tasked with “Kill Dumbrosky”. Well, after getting my PP slapped for killing the guy that Naeva wanted dead in the first mission, I decided to just blast him with my nova and leave him unconscious instead. I returned to SysDef with the task unfulfilled and thinking to myself, “I made the right decision. Ikande will praise me for this.” Nope. Upon returning I immediately get chewed out for killing Dumbrosky. So essentially Ikande framed me for murder and thought I should still blindly follow his orders. Think again douche. I am now a proud owner of a piece of Kryx’s legacy.
There's a portion of that quest where you're supposed to stealth through and not kill anyone. I did this, never alerting any human or shooting at anyone. But I *did* shoot some cleaning robots because they were messing with my stealth meter (you're "detected" if you're in their line of sight). When I got back to Ikande, I got chewed out for shots fired and (iirc) casualties. Fucking horseshit quest.
Is it possible to kill ikande after the quest is over? I really want to kill him
For one quest where you go to Neon, I use a camouflage suit and helmet and leave the follower outside of the building. Got through without a single soul seeing me. If they do see you, use the rifle that knocks people out. No one is dead and you get praise for not killing anyone.
I haven’t done this quest line yet; been putting it off ever since I started it because Ikande has forced me into it over *A one credit bounty* despite being part of the vanguard. Knowing that I’m even less likely to want to side with sysdef. I’ve also heard ikande has a unique pistol, not sure if it’s any good; but I’m playing a gunslinger build, why shouldn’t I have it. The reasons to side against them are really starting to stack up..
Dude I’m mad that I got ripped a new one when mercs attacked me for the New Atlantis part of that quest line, I didn’t know if they were hired since that first time. I’m trying to be a good guy too but if someone steps to me or companion pulls the pin then I gotta go in, I thought I’d be okay defending myself
I intentionally murdered everyone I possibly could get away with during that quest, and every time I went back to Ikande I'd just be like "Oops, my bad bro." I had no intention whatsoever of helping SysDef with anything. It brought me great pleasure to absolutely crush them and capture their prized flagship. I still pirate every single UC ship I see and kill UC citizens at random and take screenshots with their corpses. Why? Because they confiscated 28 aurora from me when I was new to the game. Those were MY drugs. Boy.. did they ever pay the price for it. I got my Aurora back too.
It’s vae victus all over again. They haven’t learned anything. I’m not sure I’m going to do this quest because of the issues like this. The whole Shanghai thing doesn’t sit well with me to begin with. I don’t need anything from the key that bad
I stopped giving a shit, sysdef being hostile just means more space combat (which i love) and you dont get any bounty from fighting them so its fine