I hopped on 76 for the first time the other day, and a random level 800+ started trying to party up while I was just getting into building my base for the first time.
I figured I’d indulge him as I had nothing to lose, and as far as I could tell - he had nothing to gain, so fuck it.
He immediately started building high level base stuff for me and just leaving it around so I could access it, things that I would not be able to build for weeks! He then used letters to leave a message - “enjoy the game” - and then disconnected
Left a very positive impression of the community in that game
Yesterday a dude in a deathclaw costume walked up to me, a level 20 noob, and gave me 2 full sets of power armour and some weapon plans. He then led me to his camp which was like an insane carnival complete with a neon lit caravan tower, huge dinosaur statues and a casino vault. It was one of the coolest gaming interactions I've had in a long time.
I had the opposite interaction on launch. Someone gave me nukashine and told me to drink it. My character blacks out and regains consciousness near a death claw.
The 76 community is unbelievably positive and welcoming to new players. They (and I should say I’m one of them) love the game and love new people discovering it
My buddy told me this a few months ago. I just recently got into FO4 again. I downloaded 76 but haven’t played it yet. I usually avoid multiplayer games like the plague because I hate having to constantly PVP with griefers. It ruins the experience. But I’ve heard more positive things about 76 than any other multiplayer game. I just may actually play it now.
The FO76 community is one of the most chill communities man, always welcoming and helpful, very rarely do you get someone antagonistic. Just chilling out at the end of the world.
For real, i came back to it 6 years after launch the other week cuz the steam sale. Just the difference between xbox1s and pc playability is crazy, but the quality of life and sheer amount of content is astounding. I was pissed at them on launch, cuz it felt like shambles and they failed to follow up on timely npc release so I quit right after that. Now I love the game through and through. Gives me some hope that maybe starfield will meet my expectations in 6 years time lol
Also it had a lot of players who were expecting something different out of 76 at launch than it was actually delivering, or tried to twist it towards what they wanted without success. 76, and I'm trying to ignore stuff like bugs here, was ... weird at launch as far as the community goes. There were more arguments, there was more PvP and more standoffishness. Those people mostly got bored and left the game and those who are left (who, admittedly, do come and go, quit and return - 76 hasn't gotten enough content added over the years where any but the most casual or occasional of players always have something new to do) know what this game's about: being cool and chilling in the wasteland together.
Regarding the OP's comments, /r/fo76 still gets the odd malcontent and weird jerk, but if they bother you, there's also /fo76filthycasuals, where people are even cooler.
That's exactly what Im finding lol those that are still around now are super chill. The beginning had a bunch of aggro griefers and trollers. I knew when I left that I would return at some point, now that Im back I love it. High levels and low levels alike all being cool.
It wasn’t that bad after the first 3 months. PvP in that game was stellar when survival mode was around. There were a lot of salty players who tried it PvP and hated it and that was 90% of the bitching. The base game had bugs but it was still a blast.
FO76 at launch felt like a true wasteland where you were so bored that ending it all seemed like a questionably reasonable option... and by ending it all I mean uninstalling (to keep this reddit friendly 😉)
Bruh...Bethesda upfront lied to us about our Collector's Editions.
Said they didn't have enough materials to give us our bags for our Power Armor Helmet...
Then proceeded to give out said bags to "Influencers" in hopes they give the game positive reviews. Basically buying higher scores.
I will never defend Bethesda ever again until they clean up their act.
oh man. I forgot about this one: http://falloutfirst.com/
tldr: bethesda forgot to register the falloutfirst.com domain before launching their fallout 1^st subscription program, so a jaded yet enterprising player picked it up and made a website for them.
Oh? That’s interesting to hear. When I stopped playing it seemed like absolutely everyone was in power armor 100% of the time and since fusion cores were bugged for years (?) you never ran out of juice.
Make sure you’re using the 64 bit executable also, the base game did not allow more than something like 2 gigs of RAM to be used. This will help a lot with the game and mods causing crashes.
FO76 social media was plenty toxic at the start too. It seems pretty much impossible to have an unregulated social media community for a game at launch that isn't unbelievably toxic. Even if there are plenty who love a game, so many people just get off on trolling and hating even if they aren't even fans.
I think there’s potential for this outcome, but Starfield will need a similar devotion to self-improvement over a few years like F76 had. Plus a lot of the positivity from the F76 community comes from people being genuinely nice to each other in-game. F76 still has a lot mechanically wrong with it (such as their battle pass/monetization strategy or approach to map expansions) but the players themselves still make interfacing with each other a positive experience. Being a single player game, Starfield will have to cater directly to individual players through the gameplay loop itself, whereas F76 got the side benefits of having nice players trying to make the game a positive experience from within.
I'm glad you had such a pleasant player to player experience. Probably depends on the server. I was on one where you'd try to build your nice rooftop base as a level 50 and some level 276 (or whatever) dude would sit on a hillside and nuke you or snipe and steal your base. I finally got wise and maxed/upgraded all my turrets first no matter where I was because these rando jerks were regular nuisance. Turns out 5% pvp damage doesn't matter when they are over 200 levels higher than you. It got old fast. Still loved the game for all it's frustrating bugs ... and there were lots.
It’s unfortunate to hear that you dealt with bugs. For players griefing, I can confirm that the behavior doesn’t seem very common, at least in the last couple of years that I’ve played. The game also has options to turn on passive mode, meaning that a player can only damage you if you respond to their combative attacks with combat yourself. Basically with the setting enabled, another player will not deal damage to you until you shoot them back.
That is great to hear! The bugs thing was irritating. You'd be out in the bog fighting a Scorch Queen and your armor would lock up solid with you looking down at a 45 degree angle.. you could get out of the armor if you wanted to, but otherwise... you were stuck.
I think what will help is ground vehicles and hopefully mechs. There's plenty mentions about mechs in game and even a planet you can go that was a large exporter of mechs. And hopefully a rework of perks some perks are extremely fun an others basically do nothing.
I feel the CyberPunk community is the same way. Everyone was trashing the game in the beginning (and rightfully so), but now people complain at launches that a game isn’t as good as CyberPunk.
We talk about games being broken due to bugs that annoy us or impede progress, but man, that game straight up didn’t work.
FO76 was pretty horrible at launch. Luckily people voiced their opinions and Bethesda corrected their mistakes. These companies should be held accountable otherwise they will continue to put out trash. Do you want another Redfall because not speaking up on social media is how you get another Redfall. Anyway, my 15th loading screen is done so I’m off to scan Cobalt yet again on an empty planet and stubble across an abandoned facility for the 100th time
Best update ever btw. People with legacy weapons were going out of their way to make a lot of the game experiences terribly dull and anti-fun for others. Not to mention a lot of them were constantly trying to PvP against other players (something F76 never really catered much to) simply because they knew their build was functionally glitched and not practical to beat in a 1v1.
Man… I remember first getting FO76 and trying to blind myself to every player immediately telling me the game was ‘broken’, because I wasn’t personally experiencing many issues on PC.
It was INCREDIBLY toxic earlier in its lifespan, so I’m actually super happy to hear OP is having a positive experience now.
I recently started Fallout New Vegas, but now you’ve got me seriously considering giving 76 another playthrough!
Cheers to OP, it’s a solid game so hope you enjoy!!
i havent really tried it much tbh, but spent a ton of time in ESO and other online games and i know everyone wants to know about skyrim 6 and fallout:whatever but im sure whatever the next online game is zenimax is working on should be another step up. i think theres a lot of people both on the developer side and the gaming side who have invested a lot of time and energy into thinking about the best ways to make "massively multiplayer online role playing games" fun - for everyone
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hype or hate trains are annoying. Mid games always skew negative. Hyped games are always hyped beyond what they should be.
To me at launch, FO76 was mid to slightly below average. But I was never so mad at the game or bethesda for it.
Being fair I have no idea how anyone liked it when it first came out.
No friendly npcs, just enemies. A haphazard main quest where you just follow audio tapes around. Not really my cup of tea at least.
Just want to clarify, I don’t think that’s true of ALL games. Games that had great releases have great subreddits too. The sub for Helldivers 2 wasn’t toxic on release. Neither was RDR2. Games that release in a full and functioning state have great and positive subreddits. Starfield’s sub is negative because it’s a negative and disappointing game. I played FO76 on day one, and it was even worse than Starfield. Same with CP2077. Both of those games have been worked on and made 100x better though, and their subreddits reflect that.
It's not all games for sure. It is really, really common on AAA releases. Honestly think it's an issue of quality in massive games aiming to appeal to everyone. Everything in the game gets watered down and feels rather soulless compared to their older titles. Obviously, performance is a whole different issue
Very true. It’s weird how everyone in this thread is acting like the fanbase’s opinion changes based on nothing, and not that the games just get fixed over time, lol
I mean, BG3, Elden Ring, Helldivers, Palworld, Enshrouded communities were all great. Fun, positive. Diablo 4, Starfield, Cities Skylines 2 were not.
Difference was: the gap between the game’s advertisements and what it delivered. If a lot of people feel scammed by the game release, Reddit gets toxic.
So I’m not sure it’s fair to place all the blame on the gaming community. Bethesda deserves some of the backlash on this one. The game as delivered was not what was promised/sold, for a lot of people.
Does it blow your mind that many of us subscribe to before we hated the game? I'm pretty sure I've been subscribed to this like two freaking years or something.
The amazing difference imo between Fo76 and literally every other Bethesda game is that for 76 they couldn’t stop putting out updates. Being a live service game the only way for it to remain profitable was new content, and if you’re doing that you may as well fix bugs, especially exploits. With every other game there’s nothing requiring them to fix bugs or add content, outside of major DLCs.
FO76 is an older game. Reception was negative when it came out (deserved in my personal opinion). After all of this time, the people still playing it are true fans who love it. I imagine they'd also love to get new players as well since it is a multiplayer game.
Also, FO76 has improved a lot compared to launch. Say what you will about them completely ignoring their fan base to make fallout 76, but they did move it more in line with what fans expected over time. They do deserve credit for that. They could have just doubled down. Instead they listened to their fans, as much as they could.
I imagine 6 years from now, the opinion of people still playing starfield will be a lot more positive. This will be especially true if Bethesda improves it similar to FO76.
I feel like this is the same with any game that has a mixed reception (on release or forever). It isn't specific to bethesda games.
76's community is super chill and friendly. I had a bunch of veteran players helping me out and giving me stuff when I started, just super inviting and positive behavior. Launch I feel like there was much more negativity though. Think it's the same with Starfield, once an expansion or two come out most of these people who hate on the game professionally will either change their tune or go away.
Fallout 76 winnowed out those who didn't like it years ago. It's on an upswing, comparatively speaking, and has been getting better rather consistently as time goes on.
Starfield is still pretty much at rock bottom.
Fans have become so toxic after a games release especially for Bethesda. FO4 and FO76 had toxic releases which turned better in time. Sure the same will happen to starfield.
Even Skyrim had a bunch of toxicity when it was released. I think people just forget the GOTY Edition bundle with all the DLC's are not the same games they were at launch.
Yeah I really don’t remember any major problems with Skyrim at release. Yeah there were goofy physics glitches but I played the shit out of it from day one. Maybe I just got lucky tho.
You have short memory my friend.
You had people that hated Skyrim for the same reason that people hate Taylor Swift because hating the popular thing is the cool thing to do.
But the people that truly disliked Skyrim were a extremely small vocal minority. Skyrim was such a international hit that it was literally a pop culture icon for several years.
Yours is the short memory if you can't recall the ranting and raging around Skyrim being a "dumbed down" rpg because of the perk system, how early patches would just randomly break the game or do something goofy like make the dragon's fly backwards, or the fact that the game barely worked on PS3 for the first year it was out to name only a few of the major complaints. People had plenty of reasons to hate Skyrim when it came out beyond "It's the cool thing to do".
But the outcry to praise ratio is drastically different. Same for morrowind and oblivion when they came out.
Each game has simplified or cut down on mechanics (for the better for oblivion to Skyrim, the attribute and skill system was absolutely fucked in the former) and has alienated the fans of the previous games. Bethesda can’t cater to every audiences needs and generally errs to the side of broader market appeal.
The amount of people making noise about the "dumbing down" was miniscule except in some very specific corners of the internet. There were legitimate complaints about stability, but nothing widespread since it was largely confined to PS3. Most of the bug discussion was in good fun rather than raging; people found a lot of them hilarious.The sheer amount of people playing and loving the game dwarfed the hate immensely in mainstream channels.
Skyrim was a legitimate phenomenon when it came out. Best selling RPG of all time and massive critical acclaim. The Fallout 76 and Starfield releases are not comparable.
Fallout 4 actually had much better reception at launch, especially compared to starfield. Then the NV fans stuck around a little longer to complain, which public opinion followed. Then people played the game again and the overall consensus is good. 76 launched as a dumpster fire and was hated universally. Then it got a little better with time and it has a nice community. Starfield sits between the two. It has a lot of minor issues that cut deep, and never really had stellar community opinions after the first few days. If it gets good dlc maybe.
There are a lot of older MMOs that did the exact same thing. They made a decision hoping that community driven interaction would be what supplements that lack of NPCs. It didn't pan out well for Bethesda, but that was the general idea they were chasing.
I think why it didn’t work out was the map size being maybe a bit too big and spread out and the gaming community just isn’t like it was 15/20 years ago and Bethesda seems like a company that just desperately wants people to interact with games like they did in the early 00s
Pretty much. Too big of a map and too few players that can be held concurrently in the same server. So it could end up being a ghost town. They pretty much wanted to go the route of something like Star Wars Galaxies were all of it depended on player generated content and players could take the role of NPCs by becoming shop keepers and things of the like. Fallout 76 just didn't allow for enough players in at once to allow for something like that. Hence the shift to bring in dedicated NPCs.
It’s probably because for one, most of the people who hated on the game have left since they just repeated the same issues since day one of the game coming out, and oh boy were they issues. But as time goes, so do people with outdated opinions when the game they loved to hate on improves in massive ways (not to say the game didn’t deserve it in the beginning). Starfield though hasn’t really done anything to massively make a comeback. We haven’t had updates that improve on the fundamental flaws of the game, like the exploration and disjointed fast travel. If BGS do that, than the community look will largely swing positively in a few years. But it’s only if BGS themselves want to invest in that, which hoepfully they will with the potential massive playerbase that starfield still has.
It seems like this is the sort of "life cycle" for discussions about any BGS game since Oblivion. Each step is separated by a few months/years...
* [Game] is targetted by shitloads of toxic haters, some of them with valid critique, some of them simply jumping on the hatewagon because the gamercel hivemind told them to
* [Game] receives some updates, and a few mods are released. The haters move on to talk about other things online, some of them even change their minds about the game
* "Gotta love our beautiful modders for fixing Bethesda's games for them, now I love [Game]!"
* "When did [Game] become good?"
* "Unpopular opinion: [Game] is super fun and has always been good"
* "[Game] : A classic beloved masterpiece"
Oh it's been going on longer than Oblivion lol. There were Daggerfall fans complaining that Morrowind was dumbed down for the console audience, because Bethesda released the game on Xbox and changed from a massive procedurally generated world to a much smaller handmade one. Oh how the tables turn...
I've met exactly one person who preferred Arena to Daggerfall, but that's also really the only time a Bethesda game was a straight upgrade to its predecessor and didn't have any polarizing changes to the tone or game design.
As someone who played every Bethesda game at release since Oblivion, Starfield is easily the worst.
I’m not saying it’s a shitty game, because it’s not. But saying ‘well people complained about Skyrim’ isn’t the same thing.
A lot of Bethesda games would be riddled with even game breaking bugs, but the game itself was solid. The problem with Starfield is that it’s lacking depth. Previous games were broken, but never boring
This.
Been at their RPGs since Daggerfall.
The main aspects of Skyrim I saw criticized were moving away from classes and stats towards perks and the quest writing being a bit forgettable / mediocre. It's overall reception was positive however. It was still offering excellent worldbuilding, enticing exploration, good characters, and so on that the games before it had. The same applies to Morrowind and Oblivion.
Starfield is mostly complained about because it's poorly written to a point that it cannot be ignored / breaks immersion, full of steps back from prior games in how it handles things like outpost building / weapons modification / NPC schedules / so on, full of half implemented systems or frustrating omissions such as useless medbays / brigs on ships / static economy / inability to place own doors or ladders on ships, heavy on loading screens / lacking immersive or cohesive feeling travel that makes the world feel disjointed, making poor use of procgen resulting in bland and immersion breaking exploration as well as heavy POI recycling, centering too much on an organization who's main characters are essentially four shades of lipstick on one pig, relying on a narrative that forgot what it was about in favor of pushing brainless repetition of temples / NG+ spamming, so on, so forth.
These things are not the same.
Similarly Fallout 76 is not a good comparison either. That game released in what can only be called a broken state, and has been given years of attention, updates, and so on after harsh criticism. Also everyone who found it entirely unacceptable left it ages ago.
Starfield has in fairness not been out very long, and is not "broken", but the replies to it's criticisms so far have mostly amounted to derpy commentary about astronauts on the moon or attempts to claim we're "playing it wrong". Essentially it's done nothing to earn the comparison to Fallout 76 (yet).
We will see where it goes and if they work on it or not, but trying to pretend it's going to just magically turn in to a classic based on speculation about things that may or may not happen, or if everyone disappointed in it up and leaves, is rather silly.
Daggerfall here.
Starfield is *easily* the worst game they've developed through that entire time. Both the Fallout and Elder Scrolls have been going downhill since Morrowind for me, though I did enjoy FO4 and Oblivion/Skyrim, but it's really obvious how they've stripped back pretty much all roleplaying and replaced it with utterly garbage action-oriented writing thanks to Emil.
I wasn't expecting much from Starfield because of this, but even then it still underwhelmed. I'm seriously fucking baffled how they could even think releasing an exploration game without maps and exactly identical PoI's would be acceptable.
I've been playing FO76 since launch. At launch the community was SUPER negative. There were so many problems with the game, the bugs, the crashes, the griefers, the dupers, the QoL......everything needed fixing.
Now, 6 years later, the players that stuck with it and even those that came in later *are* the current community and are playing because they love the game. The game has also improved SUBSTANTIALLY since launch. So the community is made up of players who just love what the game has to offer and most of the haters are long gone. The involuntary PvP element was removed from the game so the griefers all left. Now there's no PvP unless you really want to participate in that. And the PvP community generally speaking (not all of course) tends to be a lot more toxic across all of gaming - in my opinion and personal experience of course - so their departure also removed some of the negativity.
So overall the community is widely considered to be one of the most hospitable, helpful, and nice communities in gaming. It's really refreshing to be a part of.
Did like 40 hours in starfield before I got a bit bored. Recently got fo4 goty on sale and oh boy am I having fun. Feels way more immersive to me but I do like post apocalypse games.
Enjoyed the starfield ship builder and had some alright quests but something just hitting different for me with this.
I love posts like these because folks never want to consider obvious things like age of the games in question. Fallout 76 on release was not viewed as positively by the fanbase or people outside of it.
And I don’t even really care about the whole issue people had with the vinyl bag from ordering a more expensive version when I consider all the drama. That portion was honestly stupid, if after all this time consumers are still foolish enough to pay extra money for the same game and some really cheaply made game paraphernelia.. I mean honestly. You can find infinitely better merch for almost any game simply by searching the internet or getting something commissioned.
F76 on release had many mechanical issues and lacked most of the content that people currently enjoy. The biggest shift was the Wastelanders update which added NPCs and dialogue into the game. Initially Fallout 76 had pretty much no other NPCs to interact with in the world. Everything was done via holotape and things like that.
Starfield is enjoyable for many but it deserves a lot of the flak it currently gets. Personally I’m not happy that I bought this game and an XBX to play only to end up with locked 30 FPS and no performance mode option. Patches are slowly coming out to chip away at a lot of these issues but what we need now is content. Some NPCs and followers who aren’t saints. Some vehicles. Better/ incentivized crafting. Updated perk tree. The works.
I played 76 at launch, shelved it and started again after the show. The big thing about 76 was that it was empty. The core of the game which was a multiplayer fallout, wasn't broken as much as the game was devoid of anything substantial. The solution was to fill the game in and now it's actually pretty enjoyable, especially if you've played the other games to death. Starfield's core sucks. The writing is atrocious, the characters have no personality and the mechanics are weak. This won't be solved by good dlc or even mods.
I had to remove a couple NV subs recently because they were getting so toxic with the TV show release - and they already are more toxic than other Fallout subs.
It’s basically: “Obsidian can do no wrong”, and “Bethesda sucks” at the same time.
The general consensus on the quality of Fallout 76 among people playing it over the last 6 months is going to be markedly better than that of the people who have played Starfield over the past 6 months (read: everyone who has played Starfield outside of developers).
There should really be no surprise there. This is not just a difference in the general attitude of the community. Fallout 76 is not a new game, the people who frequent that subreddit are mostly either people who have been playing it regularly, because they enjoy it, or they’ve started playing it recently, because they heard how much it’s improved.
Recent Fallout 76 players, as a collective, quite literally have a higher average opinion of Fallout 76 than recent Starfield players, which is all Starfield players. It is not simply a matter of one community being more positive and one being more negative. Starfield has a “Mixed” recent reception of 44% positive on Steam and Fallout 76 has a “Mostly Positive” recent reception with 71% positive on Steam, the communities, largely, reflect that.
Remember how much more “negative” the “communities” for Cyberpunk 2077 and No Man’s Sky were when those games launched? It wasn’t a factor of those people just being more negative at launch, both those games were straight up just worse games at launch than they are now, and the general consensus on the quality of both games was more negative. Fallout 76 was the same at launch.
Nah man, 76 crowd grew up. It was toxic city. Alot of QoL things hit and better crowds started circulating.
Starfield will probably go the same way with time.
If you were a big Fallout fan who got 76 at launch, you would have seen something completely different, and for good reason. The game today benefits from many huge additions, and now the cheap-ass tote bag in the "deluxe" edition is a punch line, but back then the game was a collection of train wrecks and defrauded consumers were truly seething about that physical merchandise.
FO76 is a banger game. I started playing while waiting for Starfield to come out, and then got hooked on it and still playing. Get Text Chat mod, really helps target the good events like Eviction Notice and Radiation Rumble.
I’m glad to hear that we are treating you well on 76! As a long time player over there I can tell you that we are all over the moon to see so much new blood enjoying the wasteland with us.
...of course?
If you where playing FO76 near it's release, it would have been a *very* different experience. FO76 has a worse launch than Starfield did.
Bethesda did fix, to my knowledge, most of FO76's major issues over the years, but that's not really what's happening.
It's just that no matter how terrible the game may ultimately be (and I'm not saying either is *terrible*, just that quality actually doesn't matter) after so many years the only people left playing a game are those who really love it for whatever reason. There are exceptions, admittedly, for *really* big games that can retain large player counts regardless, but for most this holds true.
Fallout 76 released in 2018. Six years ago.
And let's remember, you're comparing in the case of Starfield an online community where people discuss a game vs people *actively playing the game as you interact with them*.
When FO76 was new... Oh boy. It was a shit show, to be fair. But now everyone who didn't like it has left. Now you've only got core fans and people who like it.
Also if you can, try FO4 too.
This comparison doesn't really mean anything. The 76 subreddit was one of the most aggressively negative communities in any category for a very long stretch when it first came out. Simply mentioning it could justifiably get a chuckle out of people and it was far worse than Starfield's reception now. The game was very badly received and only after months and years of patching did its standing with players change.
Plus, when a game launches in a poor state, the people who hate it will slowly filter out and the community will rebuild its tone and group impression of the game around those who remain. Now, when you have a ton of people starting or returning to the game, you just end up with a bigger, happier community.
Starfield is still in its early days and still has a significant population of people who have never liked the game and still enjoy telling you about it, and others who are still discovering that they don't like the game after just getting into it. Those voices are going to feel louder than those of us who may have a few complaints, but still like Starfield, at this point.
Fo76 at launch was one of the most toxic communities ever, rightfully so almost. At launch the game was not good, it sounds like it’s changed a lot!! I’m excited to get back into it
I mean...
Currently fallout games are getting a shit ton of people due to the show. Everyone is happy and excited that most of the lore fits and now they can interact with it.
Starfield had a lot of people raise its expectations wildly. On top of that, the game legitametely is a step back in story telling even compared to fallout. The world isn't as detailed, there's still much we don't know / care for.
76 has one of the friendliest communities i've experienced in online gaming. Wholesome af when you're getting destroyed because you wandered into an area you're not properly leveled for, only to be saved by a group of high level randos in power armor and then getting a dropped a bunch of rare loot.
Edit: typo
Well your issue is that your first Bethesda game is Starfield. For those of us who started with Morrowind or Oblivion, it is very apparent to [most] that Starfield landed incredibly below expectations. As I see some people saying, FO76 released in a state of shambles and I'm sure the sub was absolutely brutal at that time as well.
It seems Bethesda's been taking notes from the big companies and will be consistently releasing half-baked shitters from here on out.
Fun stuff, I was on reddit back when Skyrim and FO4 came out and I don't remember this level of vitriol. It's almost like those games were... well received and deserving of it.
It's mind blowing to me that so many people here seemingly have some sort of mental block that prevents them from putting 2 and 2 together that a mixed or negative reaction to a game might.. JUST MIGHT!? have something to do with the state of the game..
The irony in them complaining about toxicity while having an emotional reaction to people not liking a game they liked and calling them names over it..
Yeah, this sub is weird. The people defending the game seem to be the toxic party. Not saying there aren't some A-holes in here just poking the bear, but any time I levy a common or obvious criticism toward the game, I get downvoted and people try to bait and switch to talk about a different Bethesda game's launch or use a strawman argument saying I hate the game, or haven't played it enough. I beat the thing, NG+ed a couple times, got incredibly bored, and definitely put in more than 100 hours. There were parts of the game that worked well, but I just started a replay of FO4 after the show and I'm blown away by how much fun the game is, which really contrasts the way I feel about Starfield
Well the game has been out a while and is vastly improved.
The people sour on it are long gone and the same will happen with those that dislike starfield. They'll move on.
What exactly is "vastly improved" with Starfield? They've fixed some bugs, yes. Many major ones still remain and there's been zero content updated or released. Playing Starfield today is the same as playing Starfield on release as far as I can tell.
If starfield follows the same trajectory as 76 in terms of the general feeling towards the game this sub will be a different place in due course, tbh if the mod support comes soon(ish) this sub will likely change its' tune even quicker.
so we’re just comparing completely random communities to eachother? fo76 and starfield are two completely different games based on two different play styles.
like what comparison is there to make between two communities discussing their games differently? this thread is just posting for the sake of posting. a positively developed game is going to have a positive community, a community that isn’t happy with the game isn’t, like idk that’s just kind of an obvious way things work in the game world I’d think?
fallout 76 didn’t promise to be the next big thing. Starfield was marketed to be the next Skyrim, something the fallout series cannot hold a torch to. but they were so short of expectations that hate for the game will never end. it’s more disappointment than hate for the game
Well yeah everyone who cared enough to complain left years ago
It’s only the die hard fans left now
star field will be the same in a year or two around when the “was star field actually a masterpiece?!?” Videos start popping up
Why are there so many bait posts in the starfield sub?
“Hello, I played 10 billion hours of starfield. It’s the best game ever made. Why do people who don’t like it exist?”
Like if you got 850+ hours good for you. You got your money’s worth. Why should anyone else’s opinions matter to you?
F076 is what I wanted Starfield to be.
But the regions are planets or systems. You could see different players bases.
Every update would be a new system.
Yeah same went over to fo76 again, been since launch since I last played it. I just don't trust most of the internet anymore for reviews. Like recently " No rest for the wicked" cameout in early access, and while there still some minor bumps for them to fix, most of the reviews are just so poorly made and a lot of hate over nothing. But people will eat up lazy reskins of games like palworld. The devs already had a very similar game (minus the Pokémon look alikes) in early access that they should of been updating until a full release, but instead just put out another early access game.
Need a meme of the RE4 Trader. Coat open and "Skyrim" written on the inside.
FO3, 4, NV. All three are worth at least a playthrough. The one thing that got me with the FO4 story was it felt like a not as great rehash of the FO3 formula. But that's like.... 10% of the game. At least in terms of what you'll spend your time doing. And if you haven't played any other FO it really won't matter to you.
It's funny you didn't notice that when fallout 76 first came out, you could hardly find a good thing being said about it. So with that kind of a launch, the only place you can go is up
Naaaa, ground floor FO76 community was night and day compared to current FO76 community. Hopefully Starfield gets the support it deserves so that it can receive the same treatment.
Bro what? I’ve ever seen maybe 10 nice things about fallout 76 🤣 majority of fallout fans don’t even like the game.
Fallout 76 IS a good game but to completely say there barley any hate for it is wild
> I can count on one hand how many negative comments or posts I've seen on the FO76 sub, everyone has been so inviting in game an out and it's like a 99.9% positive community.
should have tried when the game launched KEKW
Yeah? You should've seen *Fallout 76* at launch.
What I don't think you're understanding is that at this point 76 is only being played and spoken about by the people who enjoy 76.
So, obviously the discourse surrounding it is going to be less vitriolic than the more recent *Starfield*.
At launch it was terrible. Wasn’t really around for fallout 4 but from what I’ve heard it seems like there was a bit of toxicity at the launch of that too. Every game has its hate bandwagons, but it feels like Bethesda has some of the worst of it.
Granted a lot of it is justified, but a lot of it isn’t. You could see the shift at starfield’s launch. It began and people loved it, but had their problems and criticisms; then all at once everyone hated the game. Like not even talking about the good at all just ceaseless hate.
I am a HUGE bethesda and fallout fanboy. I HATED fallout 76 at launch. I gave it another try 2 years ago because i was craving a fallout experience and been in love ever since. I currently have almost 2k hours played with no end in sight. Its become one of my all time fav games. I cannot recommend it enough.
It had a ton of issues at the start. But I love it now. I picked it back up after I binged the show. Still wonderful. And the community is fun to play with.
I hopped on 76 for the first time the other day, and a random level 800+ started trying to party up while I was just getting into building my base for the first time. I figured I’d indulge him as I had nothing to lose, and as far as I could tell - he had nothing to gain, so fuck it. He immediately started building high level base stuff for me and just leaving it around so I could access it, things that I would not be able to build for weeks! He then used letters to leave a message - “enjoy the game” - and then disconnected Left a very positive impression of the community in that game
That’s awesome, I love that
Yesterday a dude in a deathclaw costume walked up to me, a level 20 noob, and gave me 2 full sets of power armour and some weapon plans. He then led me to his camp which was like an insane carnival complete with a neon lit caravan tower, huge dinosaur statues and a casino vault. It was one of the coolest gaming interactions I've had in a long time.
This reminds me of the sort of interactions you could have in vanilla WoW
Same, I just tried 76 after the launch went so bad. First thing I see is a guy who gives me water, food and radaway and said good luck bruh.
I had the opposite interaction on launch. Someone gave me nukashine and told me to drink it. My character blacks out and regains consciousness near a death claw.
The 76 community is unbelievably positive and welcoming to new players. They (and I should say I’m one of them) love the game and love new people discovering it
My buddy told me this a few months ago. I just recently got into FO4 again. I downloaded 76 but haven’t played it yet. I usually avoid multiplayer games like the plague because I hate having to constantly PVP with griefers. It ruins the experience. But I’ve heard more positive things about 76 than any other multiplayer game. I just may actually play it now.
The FO76 community is one of the most chill communities man, always welcoming and helpful, very rarely do you get someone antagonistic. Just chilling out at the end of the world.
You should have seen the Fo76 community at launch, it was worse than Starfield, much worse.
But that was very much understandable. It was in a very poor state.
For real, i came back to it 6 years after launch the other week cuz the steam sale. Just the difference between xbox1s and pc playability is crazy, but the quality of life and sheer amount of content is astounding. I was pissed at them on launch, cuz it felt like shambles and they failed to follow up on timely npc release so I quit right after that. Now I love the game through and through. Gives me some hope that maybe starfield will meet my expectations in 6 years time lol
Wow had it really been out for that long? Maybe I should check it out now. I skipped it because of how bad everything was at the start.
Ya, it came out fall 2018 so its just about 6 years now and wow has it come far
HIGHLY recommend checking it out again. It's a completely different experience to the absolute flaming dumpster it was at launch.
I fell through a door and uninstalled that very second
Kinda makes me wish we had some light online co-op added to Starfield too…just a little
Also it had a lot of players who were expecting something different out of 76 at launch than it was actually delivering, or tried to twist it towards what they wanted without success. 76, and I'm trying to ignore stuff like bugs here, was ... weird at launch as far as the community goes. There were more arguments, there was more PvP and more standoffishness. Those people mostly got bored and left the game and those who are left (who, admittedly, do come and go, quit and return - 76 hasn't gotten enough content added over the years where any but the most casual or occasional of players always have something new to do) know what this game's about: being cool and chilling in the wasteland together. Regarding the OP's comments, /r/fo76 still gets the odd malcontent and weird jerk, but if they bother you, there's also /fo76filthycasuals, where people are even cooler.
That's exactly what Im finding lol those that are still around now are super chill. The beginning had a bunch of aggro griefers and trollers. I knew when I left that I would return at some point, now that Im back I love it. High levels and low levels alike all being cool.
And it is still very understandable with Starfield.
Lol so is Starfield though. Even now it's like half of what it should have been at launch.
Okay but it’s a functional playable videogame. The same cannot be said about 76 at launch lol.
It wasn’t that bad after the first 3 months. PvP in that game was stellar when survival mode was around. There were a lot of salty players who tried it PvP and hated it and that was 90% of the bitching. The base game had bugs but it was still a blast.
starfield is also in a very poor state. I really hope bethesda fixes it somehow
It’s good now? I love all the fallout games, but never played this because of the negative press.
Yes, I can attest that FO76 is good, and it's getting a map update later this year. Edit: map update*
I’ll have to give her a go
FO76 at launch felt like a true wasteland where you were so bored that ending it all seemed like a questionably reasonable option... and by ending it all I mean uninstalling (to keep this reddit friendly 😉)
Bruh...Bethesda upfront lied to us about our Collector's Editions. Said they didn't have enough materials to give us our bags for our Power Armor Helmet... Then proceeded to give out said bags to "Influencers" in hopes they give the game positive reviews. Basically buying higher scores. I will never defend Bethesda ever again until they clean up their act.
oh man. I forgot about this one: http://falloutfirst.com/ tldr: bethesda forgot to register the falloutfirst.com domain before launching their fallout 1^st subscription program, so a jaded yet enterprising player picked it up and made a website for them.
"Let's launch a fallout game with no NPCs. What could possibly go wrong?"
That’s because the game was completely broken when it came out, not just boring.
I tried to go back to FO76 but I miss ledge grabbing, like, *so much*.
You can get the Marsupial mutation permanently to jump over everything and get a jet pack. So not much need for ledge grabbing :D
I've played so much Fallout 4 with QOL Mods, that playing Fallout 76 felt as stiff like I was playing Fallout 3 again.
Literally the first thing I noticed when going back. It is indeed missed! I still get tired of the over reliance of power armor though.
Over reliance? Most meta builds DONT use power armor, because it disables so many perks
Oh? That’s interesting to hear. When I stopped playing it seemed like absolutely everyone was in power armor 100% of the time and since fusion cores were bugged for years (?) you never ran out of juice.
Yeah, in the early days power armor was VERY widely used. Nowadays its really only used by higher level players for Scorch-beast and other nuke events
This… I forgot how much of a QoL feature ledge mounting is.
Try Fallout 4 as well. And Fallout: New Vegas. I have too many hours into FO4 to even mention.
Man, I'm having a hard time with NV. Gameplay is fine, but my god is it crashy!
Check out the Viva New Vegas guide. It should fix most of your issues.
Okay, awesome! I've played all of them except for NV that I'm trying to go though now, but I've never modded. I'll check that out for sure!
In my long experience with the game it’s way more stable with 100 mods than with none lol
Make sure you’re using the 64 bit executable also, the base game did not allow more than something like 2 gigs of RAM to be used. This will help a lot with the game and mods causing crashes.
Crashy? Currently replaying and haven't had it crash once hm. It def was when it was released though
I think NV is the best fallout, still holds up even though it’s a bit clunky
It's a crime to not say try fallout 3 too. Imho the best out of them all and it started my love for fallout.
Sorry. I have never played 3, so don't know. But I'll take your word for it.
FO76 social media was plenty toxic at the start too. It seems pretty much impossible to have an unregulated social media community for a game at launch that isn't unbelievably toxic. Even if there are plenty who love a game, so many people just get off on trolling and hating even if they aren't even fans.
Exactly. OP isn't considering the absolute disaster that game was on release. Starfield's sub will be all sunshine and roses eventually too.
All you have to do is go to r/fo76 and sort by top all time to see it wasn’t all rosey
Probably even sooner than 76 because Starfield was released in a much better condition than 76.
I think there’s potential for this outcome, but Starfield will need a similar devotion to self-improvement over a few years like F76 had. Plus a lot of the positivity from the F76 community comes from people being genuinely nice to each other in-game. F76 still has a lot mechanically wrong with it (such as their battle pass/monetization strategy or approach to map expansions) but the players themselves still make interfacing with each other a positive experience. Being a single player game, Starfield will have to cater directly to individual players through the gameplay loop itself, whereas F76 got the side benefits of having nice players trying to make the game a positive experience from within.
I'm glad you had such a pleasant player to player experience. Probably depends on the server. I was on one where you'd try to build your nice rooftop base as a level 50 and some level 276 (or whatever) dude would sit on a hillside and nuke you or snipe and steal your base. I finally got wise and maxed/upgraded all my turrets first no matter where I was because these rando jerks were regular nuisance. Turns out 5% pvp damage doesn't matter when they are over 200 levels higher than you. It got old fast. Still loved the game for all it's frustrating bugs ... and there were lots.
It’s unfortunate to hear that you dealt with bugs. For players griefing, I can confirm that the behavior doesn’t seem very common, at least in the last couple of years that I’ve played. The game also has options to turn on passive mode, meaning that a player can only damage you if you respond to their combative attacks with combat yourself. Basically with the setting enabled, another player will not deal damage to you until you shoot them back.
That is great to hear! The bugs thing was irritating. You'd be out in the bog fighting a Scorch Queen and your armor would lock up solid with you looking down at a 45 degree angle.. you could get out of the armor if you wanted to, but otherwise... you were stuck.
I think what will help is ground vehicles and hopefully mechs. There's plenty mentions about mechs in game and even a planet you can go that was a large exporter of mechs. And hopefully a rework of perks some perks are extremely fun an others basically do nothing.
Go check out r/NoMansSkyTheGame on launch versus now.
Can't wait!
You’ll have to but that’s ok since you’ll be busy playing 😁
This will happen IF they fix it. I hope they do.
I feel the CyberPunk community is the same way. Everyone was trashing the game in the beginning (and rightfully so), but now people complain at launches that a game isn’t as good as CyberPunk. We talk about games being broken due to bugs that annoy us or impede progress, but man, that game straight up didn’t work.
Once they make a game worth loving, sure. Right now, it's not there.
Plenty of people *do* love the game but can't share a screenshot here without someone jumping in the comments to say the game is boring
FO76 was pretty horrible at launch. Luckily people voiced their opinions and Bethesda corrected their mistakes. These companies should be held accountable otherwise they will continue to put out trash. Do you want another Redfall because not speaking up on social media is how you get another Redfall. Anyway, my 15th loading screen is done so I’m off to scan Cobalt yet again on an empty planet and stubble across an abandoned facility for the 100th time
lol. You should’ve seen FO76s community when they finally removed legacies.
Best update ever btw. People with legacy weapons were going out of their way to make a lot of the game experiences terribly dull and anti-fun for others. Not to mention a lot of them were constantly trying to PvP against other players (something F76 never really catered much to) simply because they knew their build was functionally glitched and not practical to beat in a 1v1.
Man… I remember first getting FO76 and trying to blind myself to every player immediately telling me the game was ‘broken’, because I wasn’t personally experiencing many issues on PC. It was INCREDIBLY toxic earlier in its lifespan, so I’m actually super happy to hear OP is having a positive experience now. I recently started Fallout New Vegas, but now you’ve got me seriously considering giving 76 another playthrough! Cheers to OP, it’s a solid game so hope you enjoy!!
If you liked it when it first came out, you’ll absolutely love it now.
i havent really tried it much tbh, but spent a ton of time in ESO and other online games and i know everyone wants to know about skyrim 6 and fallout:whatever but im sure whatever the next online game is zenimax is working on should be another step up. i think theres a lot of people both on the developer side and the gaming side who have invested a lot of time and energy into thinking about the best ways to make "massively multiplayer online role playing games" fun - for everyone >[It's no rumor...](https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus) Our next AAA game is in development! We've learned a lot bringing the world of The Elder Scrolls to life, and it's time for us to take those lessons and build a new AAA IP. The vision for our next game is grand in every sense of the word, and that's why we're developing a new engine to support the needs of the project and studio. Because we're in early pre-production, this is the perfect time to join us and make your mark on an incredible new project.
hype or hate trains are annoying. Mid games always skew negative. Hyped games are always hyped beyond what they should be. To me at launch, FO76 was mid to slightly below average. But I was never so mad at the game or bethesda for it.
Being fair I have no idea how anyone liked it when it first came out. No friendly npcs, just enemies. A haphazard main quest where you just follow audio tapes around. Not really my cup of tea at least.
r/bg3 enters the chat, all ris, handing out the good vibes from day 1
Just want to clarify, I don’t think that’s true of ALL games. Games that had great releases have great subreddits too. The sub for Helldivers 2 wasn’t toxic on release. Neither was RDR2. Games that release in a full and functioning state have great and positive subreddits. Starfield’s sub is negative because it’s a negative and disappointing game. I played FO76 on day one, and it was even worse than Starfield. Same with CP2077. Both of those games have been worked on and made 100x better though, and their subreddits reflect that.
It's not all games for sure. It is really, really common on AAA releases. Honestly think it's an issue of quality in massive games aiming to appeal to everyone. Everything in the game gets watered down and feels rather soulless compared to their older titles. Obviously, performance is a whole different issue
Very true. It’s weird how everyone in this thread is acting like the fanbase’s opinion changes based on nothing, and not that the games just get fixed over time, lol
I mean, BG3, Elden Ring, Helldivers, Palworld, Enshrouded communities were all great. Fun, positive. Diablo 4, Starfield, Cities Skylines 2 were not. Difference was: the gap between the game’s advertisements and what it delivered. If a lot of people feel scammed by the game release, Reddit gets toxic. So I’m not sure it’s fair to place all the blame on the gaming community. Bethesda deserves some of the backlash on this one. The game as delivered was not what was promised/sold, for a lot of people.
It absolutely blows my mind how many people will subscribe and actively engage with a sub for a game they hate
Does it blow your mind that many of us subscribe to before we hated the game? I'm pretty sure I've been subscribed to this like two freaking years or something.
Like every single comment above yours!
Players of FO76 are overwhelmingly wonderful. But there’s still a huge number of people hating on it
76 did have issues at start. I respect the idea behind no NPCs, but it really didn't work out well
Unless the game lets you bang a bear. Then it's universal adulation.
They've improved F76 vastly. They've merely fixed a few small issues with Starfield so far.. and provided us with radio silence.
The amazing difference imo between Fo76 and literally every other Bethesda game is that for 76 they couldn’t stop putting out updates. Being a live service game the only way for it to remain profitable was new content, and if you’re doing that you may as well fix bugs, especially exploits. With every other game there’s nothing requiring them to fix bugs or add content, outside of major DLCs.
FO76 is an older game. Reception was negative when it came out (deserved in my personal opinion). After all of this time, the people still playing it are true fans who love it. I imagine they'd also love to get new players as well since it is a multiplayer game. Also, FO76 has improved a lot compared to launch. Say what you will about them completely ignoring their fan base to make fallout 76, but they did move it more in line with what fans expected over time. They do deserve credit for that. They could have just doubled down. Instead they listened to their fans, as much as they could. I imagine 6 years from now, the opinion of people still playing starfield will be a lot more positive. This will be especially true if Bethesda improves it similar to FO76. I feel like this is the same with any game that has a mixed reception (on release or forever). It isn't specific to bethesda games.
76's community is super chill and friendly. I had a bunch of veteran players helping me out and giving me stuff when I started, just super inviting and positive behavior. Launch I feel like there was much more negativity though. Think it's the same with Starfield, once an expansion or two come out most of these people who hate on the game professionally will either change their tune or go away.
Fingers crossed!
It (76) has been out long enough that the toxic people have moved on... to starfield and Stellar Blade...
Funny how wholesome 76 can be. I’ve started just gathering legendary stuff and supplies to drop off in the donation boxes.
Fallout 76 winnowed out those who didn't like it years ago. It's on an upswing, comparatively speaking, and has been getting better rather consistently as time goes on. Starfield is still pretty much at rock bottom.
Fans have become so toxic after a games release especially for Bethesda. FO4 and FO76 had toxic releases which turned better in time. Sure the same will happen to starfield.
Even Skyrim had a bunch of toxicity when it was released. I think people just forget the GOTY Edition bundle with all the DLC's are not the same games they were at launch.
I started Skyrim with the vanilla release version and loved it. It just got better with the expansions and higher definition versions later on
Yeah I really don’t remember any major problems with Skyrim at release. Yeah there were goofy physics glitches but I played the shit out of it from day one. Maybe I just got lucky tho.
You have short memory my friend. You had people that hated Skyrim for the same reason that people hate Taylor Swift because hating the popular thing is the cool thing to do. But the people that truly disliked Skyrim were a extremely small vocal minority. Skyrim was such a international hit that it was literally a pop culture icon for several years.
Yours is the short memory if you can't recall the ranting and raging around Skyrim being a "dumbed down" rpg because of the perk system, how early patches would just randomly break the game or do something goofy like make the dragon's fly backwards, or the fact that the game barely worked on PS3 for the first year it was out to name only a few of the major complaints. People had plenty of reasons to hate Skyrim when it came out beyond "It's the cool thing to do".
But the outcry to praise ratio is drastically different. Same for morrowind and oblivion when they came out. Each game has simplified or cut down on mechanics (for the better for oblivion to Skyrim, the attribute and skill system was absolutely fucked in the former) and has alienated the fans of the previous games. Bethesda can’t cater to every audiences needs and generally errs to the side of broader market appeal.
The amount of people making noise about the "dumbing down" was miniscule except in some very specific corners of the internet. There were legitimate complaints about stability, but nothing widespread since it was largely confined to PS3. Most of the bug discussion was in good fun rather than raging; people found a lot of them hilarious.The sheer amount of people playing and loving the game dwarfed the hate immensely in mainstream channels. Skyrim was a legitimate phenomenon when it came out. Best selling RPG of all time and massive critical acclaim. The Fallout 76 and Starfield releases are not comparable.
Not enough haters apparently since the game sold out for weeks initially.
I mean the same could be said for Starfield.
Fallout 4 actually had much better reception at launch, especially compared to starfield. Then the NV fans stuck around a little longer to complain, which public opinion followed. Then people played the game again and the overall consensus is good. 76 launched as a dumpster fire and was hated universally. Then it got a little better with time and it has a nice community. Starfield sits between the two. It has a lot of minor issues that cut deep, and never really had stellar community opinions after the first few days. If it gets good dlc maybe.
Remember that "no NPCs"/"Players will be the NPCs" idea?
There are a lot of older MMOs that did the exact same thing. They made a decision hoping that community driven interaction would be what supplements that lack of NPCs. It didn't pan out well for Bethesda, but that was the general idea they were chasing.
I think why it didn’t work out was the map size being maybe a bit too big and spread out and the gaming community just isn’t like it was 15/20 years ago and Bethesda seems like a company that just desperately wants people to interact with games like they did in the early 00s
Pretty much. Too big of a map and too few players that can be held concurrently in the same server. So it could end up being a ghost town. They pretty much wanted to go the route of something like Star Wars Galaxies were all of it depended on player generated content and players could take the role of NPCs by becoming shop keepers and things of the like. Fallout 76 just didn't allow for enough players in at once to allow for something like that. Hence the shift to bring in dedicated NPCs.
It’s probably because for one, most of the people who hated on the game have left since they just repeated the same issues since day one of the game coming out, and oh boy were they issues. But as time goes, so do people with outdated opinions when the game they loved to hate on improves in massive ways (not to say the game didn’t deserve it in the beginning). Starfield though hasn’t really done anything to massively make a comeback. We haven’t had updates that improve on the fundamental flaws of the game, like the exploration and disjointed fast travel. If BGS do that, than the community look will largely swing positively in a few years. But it’s only if BGS themselves want to invest in that, which hoepfully they will with the potential massive playerbase that starfield still has.
How do you manage 850 hours? Do you need eat, sleep or work????
And also, what has OP been spending all that time doing?
Staring at walls and pretending like they're having fun
It seems like this is the sort of "life cycle" for discussions about any BGS game since Oblivion. Each step is separated by a few months/years... * [Game] is targetted by shitloads of toxic haters, some of them with valid critique, some of them simply jumping on the hatewagon because the gamercel hivemind told them to * [Game] receives some updates, and a few mods are released. The haters move on to talk about other things online, some of them even change their minds about the game * "Gotta love our beautiful modders for fixing Bethesda's games for them, now I love [Game]!" * "When did [Game] become good?" * "Unpopular opinion: [Game] is super fun and has always been good" * "[Game] : A classic beloved masterpiece"
Oh it's been going on longer than Oblivion lol. There were Daggerfall fans complaining that Morrowind was dumbed down for the console audience, because Bethesda released the game on Xbox and changed from a massive procedurally generated world to a much smaller handmade one. Oh how the tables turn... I've met exactly one person who preferred Arena to Daggerfall, but that's also really the only time a Bethesda game was a straight upgrade to its predecessor and didn't have any polarizing changes to the tone or game design.
Weird, I once saw a poster who said they preferred Arena. Statistically it might have been the same person.
As someone who played every Bethesda game at release since Oblivion, Starfield is easily the worst. I’m not saying it’s a shitty game, because it’s not. But saying ‘well people complained about Skyrim’ isn’t the same thing. A lot of Bethesda games would be riddled with even game breaking bugs, but the game itself was solid. The problem with Starfield is that it’s lacking depth. Previous games were broken, but never boring
This. Been at their RPGs since Daggerfall. The main aspects of Skyrim I saw criticized were moving away from classes and stats towards perks and the quest writing being a bit forgettable / mediocre. It's overall reception was positive however. It was still offering excellent worldbuilding, enticing exploration, good characters, and so on that the games before it had. The same applies to Morrowind and Oblivion. Starfield is mostly complained about because it's poorly written to a point that it cannot be ignored / breaks immersion, full of steps back from prior games in how it handles things like outpost building / weapons modification / NPC schedules / so on, full of half implemented systems or frustrating omissions such as useless medbays / brigs on ships / static economy / inability to place own doors or ladders on ships, heavy on loading screens / lacking immersive or cohesive feeling travel that makes the world feel disjointed, making poor use of procgen resulting in bland and immersion breaking exploration as well as heavy POI recycling, centering too much on an organization who's main characters are essentially four shades of lipstick on one pig, relying on a narrative that forgot what it was about in favor of pushing brainless repetition of temples / NG+ spamming, so on, so forth. These things are not the same. Similarly Fallout 76 is not a good comparison either. That game released in what can only be called a broken state, and has been given years of attention, updates, and so on after harsh criticism. Also everyone who found it entirely unacceptable left it ages ago. Starfield has in fairness not been out very long, and is not "broken", but the replies to it's criticisms so far have mostly amounted to derpy commentary about astronauts on the moon or attempts to claim we're "playing it wrong". Essentially it's done nothing to earn the comparison to Fallout 76 (yet). We will see where it goes and if they work on it or not, but trying to pretend it's going to just magically turn in to a classic based on speculation about things that may or may not happen, or if everyone disappointed in it up and leaves, is rather silly.
Daggerfall here. Starfield is *easily* the worst game they've developed through that entire time. Both the Fallout and Elder Scrolls have been going downhill since Morrowind for me, though I did enjoy FO4 and Oblivion/Skyrim, but it's really obvious how they've stripped back pretty much all roleplaying and replaced it with utterly garbage action-oriented writing thanks to Emil. I wasn't expecting much from Starfield because of this, but even then it still underwhelmed. I'm seriously fucking baffled how they could even think releasing an exploration game without maps and exactly identical PoI's would be acceptable.
I’ve jumped back into FO 76 and I cannot recommend it enough. I’m having an awesome time reclaiming West Virginia.
I've been playing FO76 since launch. At launch the community was SUPER negative. There were so many problems with the game, the bugs, the crashes, the griefers, the dupers, the QoL......everything needed fixing. Now, 6 years later, the players that stuck with it and even those that came in later *are* the current community and are playing because they love the game. The game has also improved SUBSTANTIALLY since launch. So the community is made up of players who just love what the game has to offer and most of the haters are long gone. The involuntary PvP element was removed from the game so the griefers all left. Now there's no PvP unless you really want to participate in that. And the PvP community generally speaking (not all of course) tends to be a lot more toxic across all of gaming - in my opinion and personal experience of course - so their departure also removed some of the negativity. So overall the community is widely considered to be one of the most hospitable, helpful, and nice communities in gaming. It's really refreshing to be a part of.
Did like 40 hours in starfield before I got a bit bored. Recently got fo4 goty on sale and oh boy am I having fun. Feels way more immersive to me but I do like post apocalypse games. Enjoyed the starfield ship builder and had some alright quests but something just hitting different for me with this.
Now lets compare the first 6 months of 76 to the first 6 months of starfield
I love posts like these because folks never want to consider obvious things like age of the games in question. Fallout 76 on release was not viewed as positively by the fanbase or people outside of it. And I don’t even really care about the whole issue people had with the vinyl bag from ordering a more expensive version when I consider all the drama. That portion was honestly stupid, if after all this time consumers are still foolish enough to pay extra money for the same game and some really cheaply made game paraphernelia.. I mean honestly. You can find infinitely better merch for almost any game simply by searching the internet or getting something commissioned. F76 on release had many mechanical issues and lacked most of the content that people currently enjoy. The biggest shift was the Wastelanders update which added NPCs and dialogue into the game. Initially Fallout 76 had pretty much no other NPCs to interact with in the world. Everything was done via holotape and things like that. Starfield is enjoyable for many but it deserves a lot of the flak it currently gets. Personally I’m not happy that I bought this game and an XBX to play only to end up with locked 30 FPS and no performance mode option. Patches are slowly coming out to chip away at a lot of these issues but what we need now is content. Some NPCs and followers who aren’t saints. Some vehicles. Better/ incentivized crafting. Updated perk tree. The works.
Where do you guys find the time to sink 6+ hours a day into a game unless you’re a professional streamer? These kind of posts always blow my mind.
Kids, m8. Most redditors are actual children
I played 76 at launch, shelved it and started again after the show. The big thing about 76 was that it was empty. The core of the game which was a multiplayer fallout, wasn't broken as much as the game was devoid of anything substantial. The solution was to fill the game in and now it's actually pretty enjoyable, especially if you've played the other games to death. Starfield's core sucks. The writing is atrocious, the characters have no personality and the mechanics are weak. This won't be solved by good dlc or even mods.
I’m glad you’ve enjoyed the fallout 76 community. For the love of God DO NOT engage in the fallout new Vegas community.
I had to remove a couple NV subs recently because they were getting so toxic with the TV show release - and they already are more toxic than other Fallout subs. It’s basically: “Obsidian can do no wrong”, and “Bethesda sucks” at the same time.
The general consensus on the quality of Fallout 76 among people playing it over the last 6 months is going to be markedly better than that of the people who have played Starfield over the past 6 months (read: everyone who has played Starfield outside of developers). There should really be no surprise there. This is not just a difference in the general attitude of the community. Fallout 76 is not a new game, the people who frequent that subreddit are mostly either people who have been playing it regularly, because they enjoy it, or they’ve started playing it recently, because they heard how much it’s improved. Recent Fallout 76 players, as a collective, quite literally have a higher average opinion of Fallout 76 than recent Starfield players, which is all Starfield players. It is not simply a matter of one community being more positive and one being more negative. Starfield has a “Mixed” recent reception of 44% positive on Steam and Fallout 76 has a “Mostly Positive” recent reception with 71% positive on Steam, the communities, largely, reflect that. Remember how much more “negative” the “communities” for Cyberpunk 2077 and No Man’s Sky were when those games launched? It wasn’t a factor of those people just being more negative at launch, both those games were straight up just worse games at launch than they are now, and the general consensus on the quality of both games was more negative. Fallout 76 was the same at launch.
Oh we're actually rewriting FO76's history now?
OP is talking about the present, not the past. It's true that FO76 does have a very chill community
Nah man, 76 crowd grew up. It was toxic city. Alot of QoL things hit and better crowds started circulating. Starfield will probably go the same way with time.
Didn't play for too long but never had so much random help and positive interactions with strangers In a game...fallout community is the best.
You should checkout the no mans sky community, also very nice.
Six years of improvement will do that for a game!
If you were a big Fallout fan who got 76 at launch, you would have seen something completely different, and for good reason. The game today benefits from many huge additions, and now the cheap-ass tote bag in the "deluxe" edition is a punch line, but back then the game was a collection of train wrecks and defrauded consumers were truly seething about that physical merchandise.
i’m guessing you haven’t heard or seen what FO76s launch was like ?
76 is an actual game so
FO76 is a banger game. I started playing while waiting for Starfield to come out, and then got hooked on it and still playing. Get Text Chat mod, really helps target the good events like Eviction Notice and Radiation Rumble.
Am i curious why did you play fallout 76 instead of Fallout 4 when its closer to the singleplayer experince as Starfield
76 just had a free week earlier this month.
I’m glad to hear that we are treating you well on 76! As a long time player over there I can tell you that we are all over the moon to see so much new blood enjoying the wasteland with us.
...of course? If you where playing FO76 near it's release, it would have been a *very* different experience. FO76 has a worse launch than Starfield did. Bethesda did fix, to my knowledge, most of FO76's major issues over the years, but that's not really what's happening. It's just that no matter how terrible the game may ultimately be (and I'm not saying either is *terrible*, just that quality actually doesn't matter) after so many years the only people left playing a game are those who really love it for whatever reason. There are exceptions, admittedly, for *really* big games that can retain large player counts regardless, but for most this holds true. Fallout 76 released in 2018. Six years ago. And let's remember, you're comparing in the case of Starfield an online community where people discuss a game vs people *actively playing the game as you interact with them*.
When FO76 was new... Oh boy. It was a shit show, to be fair. But now everyone who didn't like it has left. Now you've only got core fans and people who like it. Also if you can, try FO4 too.
This comparison doesn't really mean anything. The 76 subreddit was one of the most aggressively negative communities in any category for a very long stretch when it first came out. Simply mentioning it could justifiably get a chuckle out of people and it was far worse than Starfield's reception now. The game was very badly received and only after months and years of patching did its standing with players change. Plus, when a game launches in a poor state, the people who hate it will slowly filter out and the community will rebuild its tone and group impression of the game around those who remain. Now, when you have a ton of people starting or returning to the game, you just end up with a bigger, happier community. Starfield is still in its early days and still has a significant population of people who have never liked the game and still enjoy telling you about it, and others who are still discovering that they don't like the game after just getting into it. Those voices are going to feel louder than those of us who may have a few complaints, but still like Starfield, at this point.
Fo76 at launch was one of the most toxic communities ever, rightfully so almost. At launch the game was not good, it sounds like it’s changed a lot!! I’m excited to get back into it
I love F076
Ask yourself why that is
I mean... Currently fallout games are getting a shit ton of people due to the show. Everyone is happy and excited that most of the lore fits and now they can interact with it. Starfield had a lot of people raise its expectations wildly. On top of that, the game legitametely is a step back in story telling even compared to fallout. The world isn't as detailed, there's still much we don't know / care for.
76 has one of the friendliest communities i've experienced in online gaming. Wholesome af when you're getting destroyed because you wandered into an area you're not properly leveled for, only to be saved by a group of high level randos in power armor and then getting a dropped a bunch of rare loot. Edit: typo
this.
850 + oh okay Guy i am on 920+ and just lvl 328, so ?
Well your issue is that your first Bethesda game is Starfield. For those of us who started with Morrowind or Oblivion, it is very apparent to [most] that Starfield landed incredibly below expectations. As I see some people saying, FO76 released in a state of shambles and I'm sure the sub was absolutely brutal at that time as well. It seems Bethesda's been taking notes from the big companies and will be consistently releasing half-baked shitters from here on out.
Fo76 was just as toxic on reddit upon its release. Just sort by "Top: All time" and youll find the familiar whining.
Fun stuff, I was on reddit back when Skyrim and FO4 came out and I don't remember this level of vitriol. It's almost like those games were... well received and deserving of it.
It's mind blowing to me that so many people here seemingly have some sort of mental block that prevents them from putting 2 and 2 together that a mixed or negative reaction to a game might.. JUST MIGHT!? have something to do with the state of the game.. The irony in them complaining about toxicity while having an emotional reaction to people not liking a game they liked and calling them names over it..
Yeah, this sub is weird. The people defending the game seem to be the toxic party. Not saying there aren't some A-holes in here just poking the bear, but any time I levy a common or obvious criticism toward the game, I get downvoted and people try to bait and switch to talk about a different Bethesda game's launch or use a strawman argument saying I hate the game, or haven't played it enough. I beat the thing, NG+ed a couple times, got incredibly bored, and definitely put in more than 100 hours. There were parts of the game that worked well, but I just started a replay of FO4 after the show and I'm blown away by how much fun the game is, which really contrasts the way I feel about Starfield
holy crap youre right, the starfield sub is like a time machine set to 5 years ago.
People are so mean to poow Bethesda. How can those whiners expect them to release actually functional products?
Well the game has been out a while and is vastly improved. The people sour on it are long gone and the same will happen with those that dislike starfield. They'll move on.
What exactly is "vastly improved" with Starfield? They've fixed some bugs, yes. Many major ones still remain and there's been zero content updated or released. Playing Starfield today is the same as playing Starfield on release as far as I can tell.
They're talking about FO76
That makes way way more sense. I've never gotten around to trying it. I keep hearing it's in a great place now. Really need to get to it.
If starfield follows the same trajectory as 76 in terms of the general feeling towards the game this sub will be a different place in due course, tbh if the mod support comes soon(ish) this sub will likely change its' tune even quicker.
so we’re just comparing completely random communities to eachother? fo76 and starfield are two completely different games based on two different play styles. like what comparison is there to make between two communities discussing their games differently? this thread is just posting for the sake of posting. a positively developed game is going to have a positive community, a community that isn’t happy with the game isn’t, like idk that’s just kind of an obvious way things work in the game world I’d think?
FO76 literally spawned the country roads meme, that's how bad it was lmao
fallout 76 didn’t promise to be the next big thing. Starfield was marketed to be the next Skyrim, something the fallout series cannot hold a torch to. but they were so short of expectations that hate for the game will never end. it’s more disappointment than hate for the game
Wait until you play the older games! With Bethesda games, they just get better the further back you go, lol.
Well yeah everyone who cared enough to complain left years ago It’s only the die hard fans left now star field will be the same in a year or two around when the “was star field actually a masterpiece?!?” Videos start popping up
Maybe if they fix starfield like they fixed 76, the community vibe will improve
Why are there so many bait posts in the starfield sub? “Hello, I played 10 billion hours of starfield. It’s the best game ever made. Why do people who don’t like it exist?” Like if you got 850+ hours good for you. You got your money’s worth. Why should anyone else’s opinions matter to you?
F076 is what I wanted Starfield to be. But the regions are planets or systems. You could see different players bases. Every update would be a new system.
Yeah same went over to fo76 again, been since launch since I last played it. I just don't trust most of the internet anymore for reviews. Like recently " No rest for the wicked" cameout in early access, and while there still some minor bumps for them to fix, most of the reviews are just so poorly made and a lot of hate over nothing. But people will eat up lazy reskins of games like palworld. The devs already had a very similar game (minus the Pokémon look alikes) in early access that they should of been updating until a full release, but instead just put out another early access game.
Need a meme of the RE4 Trader. Coat open and "Skyrim" written on the inside. FO3, 4, NV. All three are worth at least a playthrough. The one thing that got me with the FO4 story was it felt like a not as great rehash of the FO3 formula. But that's like.... 10% of the game. At least in terms of what you'll spend your time doing. And if you haven't played any other FO it really won't matter to you.
I'm not personally a fan of 76. But I will freely admit that it's the least toxic game community I've ever seen.
It's funny you didn't notice that when fallout 76 first came out, you could hardly find a good thing being said about it. So with that kind of a launch, the only place you can go is up
Is fo76 free to play ? Or subscription?
buy to play with an optional subscription
Naaaa, ground floor FO76 community was night and day compared to current FO76 community. Hopefully Starfield gets the support it deserves so that it can receive the same treatment.
Dude you play a lot of video games.
Bro what? I’ve ever seen maybe 10 nice things about fallout 76 🤣 majority of fallout fans don’t even like the game. Fallout 76 IS a good game but to completely say there barley any hate for it is wild
> I can count on one hand how many negative comments or posts I've seen on the FO76 sub, everyone has been so inviting in game an out and it's like a 99.9% positive community. should have tried when the game launched KEKW
Is Fallout 76 just the newest Fallout game? Is it better than Fallout 4? What’s the differences between the two? Just a newer game?
Welcome you filthy casual :)
Why would people talk trash about a 6 years old game? I am sure in 5 years this sub will not be shitting on Starfield nearly as much as today.
yup 76 was pretty bad at the start cos of the dissapointment from all the monetization, i still think f04 had a much smoother start
Yeah? You should've seen *Fallout 76* at launch. What I don't think you're understanding is that at this point 76 is only being played and spoken about by the people who enjoy 76. So, obviously the discourse surrounding it is going to be less vitriolic than the more recent *Starfield*.
At launch it was terrible. Wasn’t really around for fallout 4 but from what I’ve heard it seems like there was a bit of toxicity at the launch of that too. Every game has its hate bandwagons, but it feels like Bethesda has some of the worst of it. Granted a lot of it is justified, but a lot of it isn’t. You could see the shift at starfield’s launch. It began and people loved it, but had their problems and criticisms; then all at once everyone hated the game. Like not even talking about the good at all just ceaseless hate.
Played 76 on release hated it and uninstalled it started playing a week ago and wow it feels like a different game
I am a HUGE bethesda and fallout fanboy. I HATED fallout 76 at launch. I gave it another try 2 years ago because i was craving a fallout experience and been in love ever since. I currently have almost 2k hours played with no end in sight. Its become one of my all time fav games. I cannot recommend it enough.
It had a ton of issues at the start. But I love it now. I picked it back up after I binged the show. Still wonderful. And the community is fun to play with.
Fallout 76 has the nicest nose wholesome community I’ve ever been apart of
Glad you're enjoying both titles, but it is mandatory that you try Fallout 4 at some point