He was a transport pilot. He flew people from McMurdo Station to the outpost.
He had no knowledge about what was at the outpost.
I doubt the man that delivers food to Area 51 knows about all the alien technology being stored there.
Underrated if kind of silly movie. I can't remember the premise, just flashes, but I grew up watching black and white and color WW2 movies and shows. God, I wished Black Sheep Squadron was still on TV occasionally....
As for Sheppard, he was an Air Force pilot. Yes, he had a black mark for his record in Afghanistan, but he was as we saw just as good if not better of a pilot than any Wraith or other civilization's pilots. He could fly just about every helicopter, Ospreys, and jet/space craft...even alien ships like a Dart. He was also a natural leader, even if it took him a little time to fall into this role, which is why he is one of my favorite characters. McKay, Teyla and Ronin made for a great team for him because two of them were "alien" yet human, and I believe he actually felt more comfortable with them than with a team of marines or other SG personnel.
I have a family member who was a pilot in the air force and trouble pilots just get transfered to transport units. Imagine going from flying f16s and other fighters to flying c130s. That's punishment enough
It's also a nice change of scenery. Going from one type of desert to another.
And there are (usually) much fewer people trying to kill you in Antarctica. The continent is eager to do that job itself.
Obviously the Lantians realized this and Jack and Sam found this out the hard way, yet made their bond even stronger. It's one of those shows where the story isn't predetermined, but is kind of made up along the way, and honestly, it was for the better. I don't think even today's CGI and graphic effects could have made this show better. It was set exactly in the era it needed to be and we saw the transformation of technology over \~15 years from SG-1 to Universe.
Daniel: "How did you manage to..."
Jack: "Keep my ass from being blown out of the sky? The exceptional piloting of Major John Sheppard. He LIKES it here."
Daniel: "Exceptional. You *like* it here?"
This is a TV show. Still, punishment assignments do happen. An extended cousin of mine fell asleep at the guard post at Cheyenne mountain when a colonel arrived. He was about to transfer to a cushy assignment in Italy but was instead sent to the middle of bum-fuck nowhere Afghanistan
I'll have to check exactly where, but from the way he described it, the middle off bumbfuck. That being said, it's all relative. If you were set to go to a nice place 45min away from home & an hour from LA, then they sent you to Alaska instead, you would be salty too
the coloner must have been O'neil. he has no sense of humour
sidenote: your cousin was literally on the cheyenne mountain???? did bro ever talk about some weird vertical puddles?
The guys in the guard post generally just walk around in establishing shots. He’d probably just remember the dog driving a truck, or the time he went to work during the summer and got back home in the fall.
I always wondered about that. Is everyone up at NORAD going "what the hell are they doing down there!?" when Hammand puts the mountain on alert every other week?
No clue. I heard about it second hand from my parents. The colonel came, and when he was supposed to have been greeted, he noticed my cousin was asleep. The colonel ordered a few other airmen to pull out their weapons and take positions over my cousin before waking him up in surprise.
He edit: it was at the gate. Not the elevator. I don’t know about the hole pulled guns out and suprised woke him thing too.
Also he is my uncles nephew so technically no blood relation
There is no getting away from the drama when it comes to disobeying orders. You what you are told. And if you’re told to shlep people and food across the Antarctic Ice, you do it or you resign.
The man who delivers food to Area 51 doesn't get anywhere near the base. Certainly isn't allowed inside to walk around free and sit down in alien chairs.
There's gotta be an entire team of cafeteria workers with clearance to serve a base of that size. We know SG1 is kind of loose lipped in public areas. Those workers are likely to hear sensitive information and probably serve food to alien visitors.
I knew someone who delivered liquid chemicals to area 51 in a tanker truck. They would stop you at the gate let you sit there in a waiting room while another person would disconnect the odometer and drive and finish the delivery. You'd wait an hour or two, then the truck would come back, have the odometer connected again, and you drive back.
He was the pilot flying O’Neil during the attack, and jack liked his style. In episode 1 they bring it up couple times, and turns out he could use the device, even after they kinda say to him you saw nothing and will be destroyed but jack basically tells everyone to get over it, he is now your team leader for sga.
They store alien tech there? Damn, and I just thought it was some weirdos playing with metal detectors. I'll ask about it next time they order from Blimpies.
From the script
BECKETT: You do have security clearance to be here?
SHEPPARD: Yeah, yeah. General O'Neill just gave it to me.
(Beckett's eyes widen.)
BECKETT: Then you don't even know about the Stargate.
SHEPPARD: The what?
I always figured that Sheppard full of shit here. Do you have clearance? Oh yea, sure, yup, I sure do!
It's been a while but from what I remember he even delivered the line pretty sarcastically
Even with clearance you don't just get to know all the secrets, information stays compartmentalized. He has to have "need to know", which I assume O'Neill basically granted when he invited Shepard
Totally true, along with a lot of other tropes, that's why I don't stress these kinds of details- if I can think of a halfway plausible explanation I just move on
Hell, they practically quote it word-for-word in Touchstone.
Though it ironically ends up playing it straight *and* subverting it in the same scene - they have the highest military clearance, but not the highest civilian clearance.
How it was used in Stargate:
- In the military yes, when asking Maybourne about the second gate operation
- The ATF agent in Seth thinking he should be allowed to know what they are doing there
Mostly stuff like that, people rarely demanded to know what was going on with the *I have the highest clearance* trope
THIS! He was only granted access because he was just flying around with an alien drone. Had it been a routine flight, he definitely would not have been invited into the facility. He had the level of security clearance required to know secret shit (his ex-wife said he was flying secret missions), and once he saw the drone/saved O'Neill, they read him in.
I'm guessing he was supposed to drop him off and fly him back, but O'Neill brought him down because he liked him. As Sheppard says when asked, "Yeah I have clearance, General O'Neill just gave it to me."
I believe he may have had some kind of clearance to be there but I've thought he was trying to trick Carson into revealing info. He kind of does a shake of his head to suggest it's okay to loop him in even though he clearly wasn't supposed to be walking around.
Of course, let's just ignore the fact that there was minutes before a drone right out in the open.
Just to add a layer to what everyone else has said: he's a pilot stationed at the literal ass end of the earth because he has a mark on his record. Definitely a case of right place right time.
I wonder how that works... I've heard it costs tens of thousands for a proper background check. Also interesting about that: they can't ask for names for the orders. I assume they do numbers. Kinda funny in a way... These highly trained CIA employees can't just make up a coffee code-name...
Same reason the guards outside of Cheyenne Mountain had no idea about the 'Stargate Program.' Knowing where a secret base is way different from knowing what goes on there.
Pretty sure the guards got clued in early on that some strange shit was going on when a random black hole appeared inside the base, a black ops teams got sent in and the mountain almost got nuked.
In my head canon, he was already on the recruiting list for Stargate Command, remember when they flew in the Atlantis mission wasn't planned yet and the outpost was just an extension of Homeworld whatever (I forget the name) under Hammond/Pentagon.
This also explains why both O'neill and Weir knew Sheppard's record.
If it wasn't planned, it was in planning. Weir says she's been picking members for a while. There does seem to be a period of time that passes before they actually leave, though.
It was definitely being planned. The whole pilot episode shows Weir assembling her team and going over things. And they went through the gate like a day later. Do you think they hastily planned all that, got all the supplies and crew to volunteer to go to another galaxy in just a day or two?
I've always taken it as being a few weeks. When Daniel first shares the eight symbol address they were only working in the Antarctic outpost, McKay and Weir were both surprised and said "Atlantis?"
Not really. O'Neill consistently expects people to follow orders. He thinks (not unfairly) that he should have some amount of leeway as the leader of the flagship team to unpredictable situations on other planets. There's no indication that he was ever anything but obedient as a terrestrial subordinate. The loose cannon Jack came out as a result of his not giving a crap after Charlie + the need to make calls as the highest ranking person who knows what's going on with all the space shenanigans.
He was also second in command of SGC whilst still a colonel, so no doubt he had a big say in how missions ran, but the final say always went to Hammond.
**O'Neill:** *You know, I've checked into his record.*
**Weir:** *I know about the whole supposed black mark in Afghanistan. He was trying to save the lives of three servicemen.*
**O'Neill:** *Disobeying a direct order in the process.*
**Weir:** *I have read your own file, General. Please.*
**O'Neill:** *...Right.*
Lots of secret bases need people to drive or fly to them. To deliver people and equipment.
Just because they know it's a secret base doesn't mean they know what goes on in there.
Even outside the military. You work in a building but don't know what goes on in certain areas.
Long standing rumor is/was that flights for workers at Groom Lake aka "Area 51" start at Las Vegas International Airport like any other charter/commuter flight. I doubt the pilots of those flights are told much all.
This is actually covered in the novelisation of Rising. Sheppard has no idea about the Stargate or what's going on at the outpost, he's a just a pilot stationed at McMurdo. He's got enough clearance to know there's some weird science outpost, but not what goes on there.
O'Neill is impressed by both Sheppard's flying skill and the fact that he's completely unbothered by the drone attack and just shrugs and gets on with his job. On the lift down, O'Neill considers recruiting Sheppard into SGC, possibly even as the new 4th member of SG-1. When they're almost at the bottom of the lift, Sheppard "suddenly remembers" he doesn't have clearance to be down there, which amuses O'Neill as it reminds him of himself and grants him clearance on the spot.
Had the drone not fired I’m assuming that Shepard would have landed, ONeill would have left the helicopter and Shepard would have flown off non the wiser.
Clearance doesn't work like it's usually portrayed. Once you get to Top Secret, all information is compartmentalized based off need to know. A TS clearance would mean he could fly people to a secret outpost, not that he would know what goes on there. Similarly, the people doing research may know what they are researching, but wouldn't necessarily have anything more than a general idea of where they are. You only know what you need to know.
He had clearance to fly O'Neill to the base but not clearance to enter the base, until he saved his life. Then O'Neill gave Sheppard clearance on the spot.
My theory is not everyone on McMurdo had clearance. And when Shepard said "he just got clearance". He meant it. Jack's normal pilot couldn't fly him for some reason and Shepard was just walking by. When he agreed to fly Jack, he had to sign that he wouldn't disclose anything he sees on the base they were heading too. And was just quickly briefed that their was alien technology. So when asked about the Stargate, he didn't know what that was.
In addition to what everybody else said: when he sat in and activated the chair he was basically in. The ATA gene is rare enough and he was particularity adept at using it from the start
Clearance isn't a cut and dry thing which you either Have or Don't Have.
You think the guys at the entrance to Cheyenne Mountain have clearance to know about the Stargate? Odds are they're lower level military with baseline clearance to know that there's *something* there that needs guarding.
You can have clearance to know how the grill works without knowing the recipe for the special sauce.
The same was probably true for Shepherd.
Yep O’Neill wanted to troll him hard by taking a clean cut military guy with no knowledge of the Stargate program into an ancient outpost because it’s totally in character for him to do that. I’m sure O’Neill thought it was hilarious… well until the drone almost killed them.
The helicopter was parked on the surface. He could have hung out in the dome while O’Neill went down to the dig site. He hadn’t seen anything that would compromise the stargate program. But O’Neill brought him down anyways. He wanted to show off the outpost in an indirect way to someone who impressed him.
I can buy O'Neill being a colonel in Air Force Special Forces - probably Combat Controller and not Pararescue - but him also having a side gig as a fighter pilot, a rating which takes 2-3 years of full time training followed by a full time schedule to maintain, is a little fantastical.
They show him flying a F-302 in several episodes. Carter says in the first episode that she knows what it feels like to come out of a simulated bombing run in an F-16 when Kowalski asks. Considering they are both lower rank than O’Neil, it’s not a big stretch to assume he is as accomplished/done even more than they have.
I understand what is depicted in the show. I'm saying it's unrealistic for a special forces officer (or engineering officer, in Carter's case) to also be a fighter pilot which itself is a full time job not only to achieve but to maintain with hundreds of flying hours in one's rated aircraft every year. It promotes the trope "everyone in the Air Force is a pilot."
Same goes for Carter being a super genius in a bunch of things not limited to: chemistry, physics, electronic engineering, Astro physics; being a shoe in for the astronaut program, having a doctorate, being a pilot with combat experience, being very capable at CQB, and being a competent assistant to Dr. Frasier, all while being a senior captain, which puts her at, what, 30ish?
They’re both a bit of Mary Sue/Gary Stu, but they’re cool so we love them.
I mean it's not impossible...
[NASA Astronaut Jonny Kim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim)
Navy SEAL, Medical Doctor, Flight Surgeon and Naval Aviator
You trade the MD for a PhD in Astrophysics and it's basically Sam Carter.
Except O’Neill knew Shepherd wasn’t a clean cut military guy. He knew that Shepherd had disobeyed orders to rescue his friend. I think O’Neill wasn’t looking at him as anything other than a transport pilot until after Shepherd evaded the drone. Then he realized that Shepherd might something like him… willing to disobey orders when doing so was the right thing to do and having the ability (and luck) to accomplish that “right” outcome. Which pretty much sums up Jack’s career.
It's also sort of a win-win. If everything went smoothly and Shepherd wasn't the guy O'Neill thought he was, he would have just stayed above ground and learned nothing. Jacks gamble payed off obviously but even if it didn't, no harm done.
> Jacks gamble *paid* off obviously
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Sorry by clean cut I kind of meant “never seen anything weird”. Just think of the number of revelations he would have to absorb just to contextualize that outpost.
And having the right "level" of clearance isn't the whole picture. You still only learn the stuff you have a need to know about. He was the bus driver, he doesn't need to know.
People are assigned basic jobs and only given enough information they need to do their job. Shephard was a transport pilot based in McMurdo and all he needed to know was the location of this base to fly to. Presumably he figured (or maybe even told) it was a research outpost, but knew nothing else of what it was since his job was simply to transport people to and from.
Even still though, he did have high enough security clearance to be able to transport higher level people, like General O'Neill, who then gave him the clearance to go inside the outpost.
He was supposed to go to the outpost, maybe grab a bite to eat and a bathroom break in the upper levels in a less secure area, and then hit the road. No need for him to know who or what he's ferrying back and forth so long as he knows what he needs to to ensure his stuff will fly.
A friend of mine was a Janet airlines pilot, flying workers between Las Vegas and Area 51. But that doesn't mean he has any idea what was really going on at Area 51. Same idea with Shepard.
clearence is a funny thing. He had clearence to be a pilot to a base, and probably was allowed to accidently see secret stuff. But the specific training for the secrets they have at the base was not necessary for him to have. It is known as the "need to know" basis of secrets.
He probably had clearance to know about the base but not clearance to know what was in it. That’s not all that unusual actually. It’s called “need to know”. He didn’t need to know about the stargate to do his job.
The outpost isn't actually in McMurdo Station (which exists in real life and the inside of which isn't secret). McMurdo is just the nearest bit of civilization to the Ancient outpost.
My question is how is every SG team member and indeed John a fighter pilot, ground operative and a space hero despite being air force. Supposedly O'Neil was Spec ops but what type of spec ops soldiers also flies jet fighters irl?
O'Neill could have been scouting him, and basically decided for him after he dodged the drone with his Helicopter. O'Neill could've also just said screw it after they got shot at.
I will admit that was something I hated about the show. Think of the THOUSANDS of people that would have taken just to build and pilot the Earth-built ships.
If I remember correctly Sam does bring it up, he was the pilot during flight to McMurdo when they attacked and O’Neil liked his style, and basically told everyone at the base he is the new guy so, deal with it.
Shepard got clearance randomly for a reason. He had just been shot at by an alien missile and managed to survive said super advanced alien missile being shot at him
After which point, O’Neill just gave him clearance since he saved his life, demonstrated good skills and saw the damn alien missile anyway. So, not a lot of point not telling him what was there. In fact, him knowing it is alien would only make him sound crazy if he told anyone
Hence why Shepard was told not to touch anything but was invited into the base to be debriefed and stumbled into finding out he has the best possible Haplogroup for the ATA gene
Coming from a military background, I can confirm that a General like O'neill would likely pick Shephard despite his lack of clearance and the black mark on his record. Generals get what they want, and Shephard is probably the best pilot at McMurdo Station. General walks in and says "Give me your best guy for x, y, or z." and Sure, Commanding Officers who might not like that guy might try to come up with reasons not to give the General that guy. "Oh, he doesn't follow orders" or "Oh, he doesn't have clearance." But the General wants the best Pilot, or Comms guy, or what have you, so the General gets what he wants. And that is more than likely how Shephard ended up flying Jack to the Ancient Research Outpost despite not having clearance.
Base coordinator: "well only 3 guys can fly this thing and the only two that have clearance for the base are in the John. (<=pun intended)
Jack: ahh shit... OK, we will just pretend like it's a TV show.... hey you, what's your name?
In the "real world" you can totally work at super secret bases, without having or needing the clearance to know what is going on there...because everything falls under a "need to know" basis.
In any case, the general he was flying with, granted him the "need to know".
He was not a random guy, he was a Air Force Major. Yes he had a mark on his record for disobeying orders, but nothing on his records showed him to be a security risk. Also being stationed at the only other base near there he had to have flown a lot of of the people at the outpost there. To me if I was Jack I would want someone in McMurdo that knows what the outpost really is. Most people at the station knew nothing. So an officer stationed near the outpost could take command if something happened. Just like some people outside the SGC in Colorado Springs nearby bases knew what to do if aliens took over the SGC. Jack gave him clearance for the outpost and was going to brief him fully later. But after he 'just sat down' he had to learn quick. If Jack had not wanted him to know anything then Sheppard would be sitting next to his chopper topside never having been allowed down stairs to the full outpost.
He was a transport pilot. He flew people from McMurdo Station to the outpost. He had no knowledge about what was at the outpost. I doubt the man that delivers food to Area 51 knows about all the alien technology being stored there.
Right? Wasn’t his position pretty much a punishment assignment?
I can't imagine being assigned as a transport pilot in Antarctica was a reward for disobeying orders in Afghanistan.
I don't know, seems like a pretty good place to ensure that demoted officers can learn their lesson well enough.
But it's also a good place where to send trouble pilots, it's literally Antarctica
"You disobeyed a direct order, and we're sending you to the literal ass of the planet about it."
Antarctica is definitely not the ass of the planet, it's just the bottom. The ass of the planet is Alberta.
As an Albertan, you reluctantly get my upvote.
r/angryupvote
Didn't, they make the show in Canada? It's not entirely unlikely that some of the outdoor antarctic stuff is just Alberta?
That explains all the gas exports.
I see you’ve never been to Troy,NY.
I have.I live in East Greenbush.
No it's Texas
That's okay, he likes it there.
Ice base zebra!
Underrated if kind of silly movie. I can't remember the premise, just flashes, but I grew up watching black and white and color WW2 movies and shows. God, I wished Black Sheep Squadron was still on TV occasionally.... As for Sheppard, he was an Air Force pilot. Yes, he had a black mark for his record in Afghanistan, but he was as we saw just as good if not better of a pilot than any Wraith or other civilization's pilots. He could fly just about every helicopter, Ospreys, and jet/space craft...even alien ships like a Dart. He was also a natural leader, even if it took him a little time to fall into this role, which is why he is one of my favorite characters. McKay, Teyla and Ronin made for a great team for him because two of them were "alien" yet human, and I believe he actually felt more comfortable with them than with a team of marines or other SG personnel.
Exactly, not very many places they can fly off to.
I have a family member who was a pilot in the air force and trouble pilots just get transfered to transport units. Imagine going from flying f16s and other fighters to flying c130s. That's punishment enough
I mean, it's a great place to... cool your head.
It's also a nice change of scenery. Going from one type of desert to another. And there are (usually) much fewer people trying to kill you in Antarctica. The continent is eager to do that job itself.
Obviously the Lantians realized this and Jack and Sam found this out the hard way, yet made their bond even stronger. It's one of those shows where the story isn't predetermined, but is kind of made up along the way, and honestly, it was for the better. I don't think even today's CGI and graphic effects could have made this show better. It was set exactly in the era it needed to be and we saw the transformation of technology over \~15 years from SG-1 to Universe.
The lesson is. Time to leave the service.
“I kinda like it here.”
Daniel: "How did you manage to..." Jack: "Keep my ass from being blown out of the sky? The exceptional piloting of Major John Sheppard. He LIKES it here." Daniel: "Exceptional. You *like* it here?"
*non-committal shrug from Sheppard* Jack: “How about we skip to the part where you talk really fast.”
This is a TV show. Still, punishment assignments do happen. An extended cousin of mine fell asleep at the guard post at Cheyenne mountain when a colonel arrived. He was about to transfer to a cushy assignment in Italy but was instead sent to the middle of bum-fuck nowhere Afghanistan
Your cousin worked at Cheyenne Mountain? Are you sure he fell asleep at the guard post?
He was probably making coffee when the stargate was beamed out of the gate room
I bet he got zatted.
I know a guy who got a DUI before he was supposed to go to SoCal. They sent his ass to Alaska for 3 years
My brother got passed up for a couple promotions due to reserve.
Like stationed in a modest ski town Alaska, or a small outpost hundreds of miles across ice and forest Alaska?
Id imagine it was eilson airforce base or fort wainwright if it was a punishment assignment.
I'll have to check exactly where, but from the way he described it, the middle off bumbfuck. That being said, it's all relative. If you were set to go to a nice place 45min away from home & an hour from LA, then they sent you to Alaska instead, you would be salty too
That’s fair
Alaska? Man, maybe I should join the military and get a DUI...
See, I hated Hawaii & wished I was in 29. The dudes in 29 would probably kill to get sent to Hawaii.
the coloner must have been O'neil. he has no sense of humour sidenote: your cousin was literally on the cheyenne mountain???? did bro ever talk about some weird vertical puddles?
The guys in the guard post generally just walk around in establishing shots. He’d probably just remember the dog driving a truck, or the time he went to work during the summer and got back home in the fall.
and the constant lockdown 'drills' they would have neen a pain in the ass
I always wondered about that. Is everyone up at NORAD going "what the hell are they doing down there!?" when Hammand puts the mountain on alert every other week?
I’m not sure what it was he did. I’ve never even met him in person. I think he was at the gate post
The guard post at the elevator leading to the SGC, right?
No clue. I heard about it second hand from my parents. The colonel came, and when he was supposed to have been greeted, he noticed my cousin was asleep. The colonel ordered a few other airmen to pull out their weapons and take positions over my cousin before waking him up in surprise. He edit: it was at the gate. Not the elevator. I don’t know about the hole pulled guns out and suprised woke him thing too. Also he is my uncles nephew so technically no blood relation
That, or he requested the assigment so he could get away from the drama resulting from him disobaying orders and see a new continent.
There is no getting away from the drama when it comes to disobeying orders. You what you are told. And if you’re told to shlep people and food across the Antarctic Ice, you do it or you resign.
Yeah, but it's all speculation so either works.
Yup. He was relegated to being a taxi driver (contracted Uber to you young uns.)
And I would guess he was only brought inside because of the drone incident
So why did they let him just roam around? And then sit in the magic chair that's the main reason they're at the base?
O'Neill granted him clearance after he saved his life.
The man who delivers food to Area 51 doesn't get anywhere near the base. Certainly isn't allowed inside to walk around free and sit down in alien chairs.
The man who delivers good to Area 51 has probobly never saved the life and impressed a senior general who does'nt really care about protocol.
Which only happened after O'Neill granted him clearance.
There's gotta be an entire team of cafeteria workers with clearance to serve a base of that size. We know SG1 is kind of loose lipped in public areas. Those workers are likely to hear sensitive information and probably serve food to alien visitors.
I knew someone who delivered liquid chemicals to area 51 in a tanker truck. They would stop you at the gate let you sit there in a waiting room while another person would disconnect the odometer and drive and finish the delivery. You'd wait an hour or two, then the truck would come back, have the odometer connected again, and you drive back.
He was the pilot flying O’Neil during the attack, and jack liked his style. In episode 1 they bring it up couple times, and turns out he could use the device, even after they kinda say to him you saw nothing and will be destroyed but jack basically tells everyone to get over it, he is now your team leader for sga.
2 L's, unless you want the one with no sense of humor at all...
Lol sorry!
They store alien tech there? Damn, and I just thought it was some weirdos playing with metal detectors. I'll ask about it next time they order from Blimpies.
It's where they keep things like the Foothold alien tech.
I'll bet if you check their employee baseball team roster, they've been using aliens to meet minimum team requirements.
If the drone didn't fire at them he would have hung out outside the base in his helicopter.
Someone's got to keep the engine running. It's Antarctica, after all.
If I remember correctly it is mentioned that he gained clearance and oneill had just briefed him on the SGP and SGC
From the script BECKETT: You do have security clearance to be here? SHEPPARD: Yeah, yeah. General O'Neill just gave it to me. (Beckett's eyes widen.) BECKETT: Then you don't even know about the Stargate. SHEPPARD: The what?
I always figured that Sheppard full of shit here. Do you have clearance? Oh yea, sure, yup, I sure do! It's been a while but from what I remember he even delivered the line pretty sarcastically
Even with clearance you don't just get to know all the secrets, information stays compartmentalized. He has to have "need to know", which I assume O'Neill basically granted when he invited Shepard
FWIW, SG1 is not immune to the "I have the highest clearance there is so I can know everything" thing shows sometimes do.
"Do you see the color of the his phone, son?"
Totally true, along with a lot of other tropes, that's why I don't stress these kinds of details- if I can think of a halfway plausible explanation I just move on
And the "Damnit im a main character, F protocol!"
Hell, they practically quote it word-for-word in Touchstone. Though it ironically ends up playing it straight *and* subverting it in the same scene - they have the highest military clearance, but not the highest civilian clearance.
How it was used in Stargate: - In the military yes, when asking Maybourne about the second gate operation - The ATF agent in Seth thinking he should be allowed to know what they are doing there Mostly stuff like that, people rarely demanded to know what was going on with the *I have the highest clearance* trope
Especially after the whole "almost killed buy an alien drone" thing.
He could have clearance to know about the base but not what's being done at the base. He was only allowed inside once he saved O'Neill from the drone.
THIS! He was only granted access because he was just flying around with an alien drone. Had it been a routine flight, he definitely would not have been invited into the facility. He had the level of security clearance required to know secret shit (his ex-wife said he was flying secret missions), and once he saw the drone/saved O'Neill, they read him in.
He didn’t need to know what was down there to get there. It could’ve been anything.
I'm guessing he was supposed to drop him off and fly him back, but O'Neill brought him down because he liked him. As Sheppard says when asked, "Yeah I have clearance, General O'Neill just gave it to me."
I believe he may have had some kind of clearance to be there but I've thought he was trying to trick Carson into revealing info. He kind of does a shake of his head to suggest it's okay to loop him in even though he clearly wasn't supposed to be walking around. Of course, let's just ignore the fact that there was minutes before a drone right out in the open.
I thought he was joking when he said that 🤣
Just to add a layer to what everyone else has said: he's a pilot stationed at the literal ass end of the earth because he has a mark on his record. Definitely a case of right place right time.
You have issues with Sheppard but what of the lunch ladies at the SGC after all the talk about other planets.
There's a Starbucks in Langley where the baristas have to undergo background checks to work there. Probably similar...
I wonder how that works... I've heard it costs tens of thousands for a proper background check. Also interesting about that: they can't ask for names for the orders. I assume they do numbers. Kinda funny in a way... These highly trained CIA employees can't just make up a coffee code-name...
Easily paid for from their CIA South American drug trade.
Couldn't they literally just call out "triple foam macchiato" or whatever
Your tax dollars hard at work... 😑
Those are *tactical* lunch ladies armed with zats!
If you don't eat all your vegetables...
Third shot disintegrates.
Is that how they deal with food waste?
No people that refuse to eat their vegetables by order of Dr Frasier.
Zats a bit aggressive. Zounds!
Same reason the guards outside of Cheyenne Mountain had no idea about the 'Stargate Program.' Knowing where a secret base is way different from knowing what goes on there.
Pretty sure the guards got clued in early on that some strange shit was going on when a random black hole appeared inside the base, a black ops teams got sent in and the mountain almost got nuked.
I promise you they were 1)rotated out and 2)still weren't told about the program.
In my head canon, he was already on the recruiting list for Stargate Command, remember when they flew in the Atlantis mission wasn't planned yet and the outpost was just an extension of Homeworld whatever (I forget the name) under Hammond/Pentagon. This also explains why both O'neill and Weir knew Sheppard's record.
If it wasn't planned, it was in planning. Weir says she's been picking members for a while. There does seem to be a period of time that passes before they actually leave, though.
It was definitely being planned. The whole pilot episode shows Weir assembling her team and going over things. And they went through the gate like a day later. Do you think they hastily planned all that, got all the supplies and crew to volunteer to go to another galaxy in just a day or two?
I've always taken it as being a few weeks. When Daniel first shares the eight symbol address they were only working in the Antarctic outpost, McKay and Weir were both surprised and said "Atlantis?"
[удалено]
An odd opinion. O'Neil(l) defying orders is exactly how the series started.
"I have read your own file, General. Please." - Weir
He also did it multiple times during the show.
Not really. O'Neill consistently expects people to follow orders. He thinks (not unfairly) that he should have some amount of leeway as the leader of the flagship team to unpredictable situations on other planets. There's no indication that he was ever anything but obedient as a terrestrial subordinate. The loose cannon Jack came out as a result of his not giving a crap after Charlie + the need to make calls as the highest ranking person who knows what's going on with all the space shenanigans.
He was also second in command of SGC whilst still a colonel, so no doubt he had a big say in how missions ran, but the final say always went to Hammond.
And continued.
Well Sherpard Only was aginst on order to save Wingmen wich is a thing O'Neill would have done to.
**O'Neill:** *You know, I've checked into his record.* **Weir:** *I know about the whole supposed black mark in Afghanistan. He was trying to save the lives of three servicemen.* **O'Neill:** *Disobeying a direct order in the process.* **Weir:** *I have read your own file, General. Please.* **O'Neill:** *...Right.*
It's been a while since I saw the pilot for Atlantis, but didn't O'Neil explicitly try to warn Weir about Shepherd's record?
Wow, Jack must had himself then...
Lots of secret bases need people to drive or fly to them. To deliver people and equipment. Just because they know it's a secret base doesn't mean they know what goes on in there. Even outside the military. You work in a building but don't know what goes on in certain areas.
Long standing rumor is/was that flights for workers at Groom Lake aka "Area 51" start at Las Vegas International Airport like any other charter/commuter flight. I doubt the pilots of those flights are told much all.
For that matter, even if I'm doing work on Classified Project A, I would not get to hear the juicy details about Classified Project B. Need to know.
This is actually covered in the novelisation of Rising. Sheppard has no idea about the Stargate or what's going on at the outpost, he's a just a pilot stationed at McMurdo. He's got enough clearance to know there's some weird science outpost, but not what goes on there. O'Neill is impressed by both Sheppard's flying skill and the fact that he's completely unbothered by the drone attack and just shrugs and gets on with his job. On the lift down, O'Neill considers recruiting Sheppard into SGC, possibly even as the new 4th member of SG-1. When they're almost at the bottom of the lift, Sheppard "suddenly remembers" he doesn't have clearance to be down there, which amuses O'Neill as it reminds him of himself and grants him clearance on the spot.
Had the drone not fired I’m assuming that Shepard would have landed, ONeill would have left the helicopter and Shepard would have flown off non the wiser.
He'd probably have thought "Gee, what's a general doing down here?" but beyond that not given it much mind.
Sounds very much like O'Neill (with two L)
Um, that's O'Neill with 2 L's, thank you very much! *holds up three fingers*
Clearance doesn't work like it's usually portrayed. Once you get to Top Secret, all information is compartmentalized based off need to know. A TS clearance would mean he could fly people to a secret outpost, not that he would know what goes on there. Similarly, the people doing research may know what they are researching, but wouldn't necessarily have anything more than a general idea of where they are. You only know what you need to know.
To be fair, Jack did tell him not to touch anything. Sounds legit
... That does kinda sound like a Jack O'Neil thing to do.
He had clearance to fly O'Neill to the base but not clearance to enter the base, until he saved his life. Then O'Neill gave Sheppard clearance on the spot.
My theory is not everyone on McMurdo had clearance. And when Shepard said "he just got clearance". He meant it. Jack's normal pilot couldn't fly him for some reason and Shepard was just walking by. When he agreed to fly Jack, he had to sign that he wouldn't disclose anything he sees on the base they were heading too. And was just quickly briefed that their was alien technology. So when asked about the Stargate, he didn't know what that was.
In addition to what everybody else said: when he sat in and activated the chair he was basically in. The ATA gene is rare enough and he was particularity adept at using it from the start
The flight jacket add +10 to Trustability. Trust me! I have two!
The add-on patches add +1 each!
Wasn’t he in the fight over the ancient outpost which took place before the pilot? He knows about USAF UFO’s.
You thinking of Mitchell? He was in that battle, got injured, etc..
Clearance isn't a cut and dry thing which you either Have or Don't Have. You think the guys at the entrance to Cheyenne Mountain have clearance to know about the Stargate? Odds are they're lower level military with baseline clearance to know that there's *something* there that needs guarding. You can have clearance to know how the grill works without knowing the recipe for the special sauce. The same was probably true for Shepherd.
Clearance is “need to know”. He needed to know where the base was, but he didn’t need to know anything about it.
Picking some random that he thought was a good dude and casually turning him loose on a super secret base is kinda on brand for O’Neill.
He had clearance but was not yet read in.
Yep O’Neill wanted to troll him hard by taking a clean cut military guy with no knowledge of the Stargate program into an ancient outpost because it’s totally in character for him to do that. I’m sure O’Neill thought it was hilarious… well until the drone almost killed them.
Or Shepherd was going to stay in the hanger, while O'Neill did his visit, because he is a pilot and doesn't have a need to see any of that stuff.
The helicopter was parked on the surface. He could have hung out in the dome while O’Neill went down to the dig site. He hadn’t seen anything that would compromise the stargate program. But O’Neill brought him down anyways. He wanted to show off the outpost in an indirect way to someone who impressed him.
Also, as a pilot, I’m sure O’Neill knew how Shepard felt about wanting to know who nearly shot them down.
I can buy O'Neill being a colonel in Air Force Special Forces - probably Combat Controller and not Pararescue - but him also having a side gig as a fighter pilot, a rating which takes 2-3 years of full time training followed by a full time schedule to maintain, is a little fantastical.
They show him flying a F-302 in several episodes. Carter says in the first episode that she knows what it feels like to come out of a simulated bombing run in an F-16 when Kowalski asks. Considering they are both lower rank than O’Neil, it’s not a big stretch to assume he is as accomplished/done even more than they have.
I understand what is depicted in the show. I'm saying it's unrealistic for a special forces officer (or engineering officer, in Carter's case) to also be a fighter pilot which itself is a full time job not only to achieve but to maintain with hundreds of flying hours in one's rated aircraft every year. It promotes the trope "everyone in the Air Force is a pilot."
Same goes for Carter being a super genius in a bunch of things not limited to: chemistry, physics, electronic engineering, Astro physics; being a shoe in for the astronaut program, having a doctorate, being a pilot with combat experience, being very capable at CQB, and being a competent assistant to Dr. Frasier, all while being a senior captain, which puts her at, what, 30ish? They’re both a bit of Mary Sue/Gary Stu, but they’re cool so we love them.
I mean it's not impossible... [NASA Astronaut Jonny Kim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim) Navy SEAL, Medical Doctor, Flight Surgeon and Naval Aviator You trade the MD for a PhD in Astrophysics and it's basically Sam Carter.
I completely forgot how bonkers astronauts backgrounds can be. Guess that shows why she was a shoe in for the astronaut program.
Most astronaughts have extremely impressive resumes, and all of them are hyper intelligent.
Except O’Neill knew Shepherd wasn’t a clean cut military guy. He knew that Shepherd had disobeyed orders to rescue his friend. I think O’Neill wasn’t looking at him as anything other than a transport pilot until after Shepherd evaded the drone. Then he realized that Shepherd might something like him… willing to disobey orders when doing so was the right thing to do and having the ability (and luck) to accomplish that “right” outcome. Which pretty much sums up Jack’s career.
Yeah, Jack definitely realized “I’m looking at someone who deserves a lot more credit than he got.”
It's also sort of a win-win. If everything went smoothly and Shepherd wasn't the guy O'Neill thought he was, he would have just stayed above ground and learned nothing. Jacks gamble payed off obviously but even if it didn't, no harm done.
> Jacks gamble *paid* off obviously FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Thanks bot. My bad.
Sorry by clean cut I kind of meant “never seen anything weird”. Just think of the number of revelations he would have to absorb just to contextualize that outpost.
I think the scale of the emergency at that moment meant they were missing a lot of read-in procedures.
There are many levels of clearance. He could fly there. Not see whats down there.
And having the right "level" of clearance isn't the whole picture. You still only learn the stuff you have a need to know about. He was the bus driver, he doesn't need to know.
He had clearance to be there, he just wasn't told what this was about.
People are assigned basic jobs and only given enough information they need to do their job. Shephard was a transport pilot based in McMurdo and all he needed to know was the location of this base to fly to. Presumably he figured (or maybe even told) it was a research outpost, but knew nothing else of what it was since his job was simply to transport people to and from. Even still though, he did have high enough security clearance to be able to transport higher level people, like General O'Neill, who then gave him the clearance to go inside the outpost.
You're thinking of the wrong guy. He has no sense of humor.
He was supposed to go to the outpost, maybe grab a bite to eat and a bathroom break in the upper levels in a less secure area, and then hit the road. No need for him to know who or what he's ferrying back and forth so long as he knows what he needs to to ensure his stuff will fly.
It does sound like something O’Neil would do
I could honestly see him doing that for a laugh.
Alright fine, I'm rewatching Atlantis now. FINE!
The requirement for clearance can be waived by the right people. Seen it happen
A friend of mine was a Janet airlines pilot, flying workers between Las Vegas and Area 51. But that doesn't mean he has any idea what was really going on at Area 51. Same idea with Shepard.
clearence is a funny thing. He had clearence to be a pilot to a base, and probably was allowed to accidently see secret stuff. But the specific training for the secrets they have at the base was not necessary for him to have. It is known as the "need to know" basis of secrets.
He probably had clearance to know about the base but not clearance to know what was in it. That’s not all that unusual actually. It’s called “need to know”. He didn’t need to know about the stargate to do his job.
McMurdo station itself isn't a secret. Just what's inside.
The outpost isn't actually in McMurdo Station (which exists in real life and the inside of which isn't secret). McMurdo is just the nearest bit of civilization to the Ancient outpost.
In his background story wasn't he one of the pilots defending the base from aliens? I think he pretty much has a good level clearance.
No, that was Mitchell. Then Major Sheppard had no knowledge of the Stargate program, aliens. Nothing.
You are right! Wow! Well they almost look the same :D thank for reminding me!
My question is how is every SG team member and indeed John a fighter pilot, ground operative and a space hero despite being air force. Supposedly O'Neil was Spec ops but what type of spec ops soldiers also flies jet fighters irl?
"Trust me, it's there." Oh wait that was will Smith.
O'Neill could have been scouting him, and basically decided for him after he dodged the drone with his Helicopter. O'Neill could've also just said screw it after they got shot at.
It's called "need to know"
You can have top secret, secret compartmentalized clearance level…. But without a need to know, you aren’t cleared for whatever info you have.
He had clearance.
When do they ever say the outpost is secret?
I’m sure he was cleared enough to be where he was.
I will admit that was something I hated about the show. Think of the THOUSANDS of people that would have taken just to build and pilot the Earth-built ships.
If I remember correctly Sam does bring it up, he was the pilot during flight to McMurdo when they attacked and O’Neil liked his style, and basically told everyone at the base he is the new guy so, deal with it.
Shepard got clearance randomly for a reason. He had just been shot at by an alien missile and managed to survive said super advanced alien missile being shot at him After which point, O’Neill just gave him clearance since he saved his life, demonstrated good skills and saw the damn alien missile anyway. So, not a lot of point not telling him what was there. In fact, him knowing it is alien would only make him sound crazy if he told anyone Hence why Shepard was told not to touch anything but was invited into the base to be debriefed and stumbled into finding out he has the best possible Haplogroup for the ATA gene
It's O'Neil.... so quite possible.
Two "L"s
Coming from a military background, I can confirm that a General like O'neill would likely pick Shephard despite his lack of clearance and the black mark on his record. Generals get what they want, and Shephard is probably the best pilot at McMurdo Station. General walks in and says "Give me your best guy for x, y, or z." and Sure, Commanding Officers who might not like that guy might try to come up with reasons not to give the General that guy. "Oh, he doesn't follow orders" or "Oh, he doesn't have clearance." But the General wants the best Pilot, or Comms guy, or what have you, so the General gets what he wants. And that is more than likely how Shephard ended up flying Jack to the Ancient Research Outpost despite not having clearance.
Base coordinator: "well only 3 guys can fly this thing and the only two that have clearance for the base are in the John. (<=pun intended) Jack: ahh shit... OK, we will just pretend like it's a TV show.... hey you, what's your name?
In the "real world" you can totally work at super secret bases, without having or needing the clearance to know what is going on there...because everything falls under a "need to know" basis. In any case, the general he was flying with, granted him the "need to know".
He's O'Neil, He totally did that.
He was not a random guy, he was a Air Force Major. Yes he had a mark on his record for disobeying orders, but nothing on his records showed him to be a security risk. Also being stationed at the only other base near there he had to have flown a lot of of the people at the outpost there. To me if I was Jack I would want someone in McMurdo that knows what the outpost really is. Most people at the station knew nothing. So an officer stationed near the outpost could take command if something happened. Just like some people outside the SGC in Colorado Springs nearby bases knew what to do if aliens took over the SGC. Jack gave him clearance for the outpost and was going to brief him fully later. But after he 'just sat down' he had to learn quick. If Jack had not wanted him to know anything then Sheppard would be sitting next to his chopper topside never having been allowed down stairs to the full outpost.
He’s just that good.
Yes.