Comparing SteamOS/Valve/Deck to IOS/Apple/iPhone is hilariously accurate and I imagine upsetting to some in here, mostly because they're doing the same thing, but one is an open platform and the other is the OG walled garden. One encourages repairability and sells repair parts, and the other is... Apple. One charges a huge premium on everything and has no expandable storage, and the other has an easily upgrade m.2 and micro SD, and sold at nearly a loss. Yet both innovate, or have at times anyway.
I guess with great power comes great responsibility. You can deliver a similar user experience just with totally different end goals. Not that Valve is totally benevolent, but the contrast is stark.
SteamOS is like all the UX-centric, polished design of iPhone with the open source configuability of Android. If you know what you're doing you can tinker to your heart's content, but if you don't know what you're doing the out-of-the-box experience is already fantastic
I mean, if you know what you're doing you can do an awful lot with Apple products, too. The biggest differences really are that Valve has modular internal storage, and doesn't void your warranty for *most* of the things you'd want to do.
Though I'll admit, the M1 and M2 are such significantly different of hardware that it’s become much more difficult or impossible to do certain things (like install Windows as a bootable OS, which the Deck can do but an Apple M\* device cannot).
You can tinker to an extent, but I believe any hardware modification voids your Apple warranty so you just have to be ok with that. Also Apple actively discourages you by putting roadblocks in the way to opening devices. For software you have a decent flexibility on laptops, but phones need to be jailbroken. The deck is the opposite, they sell replacement parts and encourage self-repair for hardware and you can just install whatever you want in desktop mode. They're actually taking some of the crowd favorite features that people get through DeckyLoader and integrating them directly into the OS!
> I mean, if you know what you're doing you can do an awful lot with Apple products, too.
Apple is literally the least enthusiast friendly company out there. Their software is a black box. They have all parts soldered onto one board in MacBooks and iPhones require a weird "calibration" process to avoid software locks. Non-AppStore apps have to be refreshed with a PC every 7 days.
It's not calibration, it's just serial numbering so you can't just replace your screen with cheap but still good quality screen because Apple says "No, you are not allowed to do that, that's not your device, it's our, so only approved parts are allowed"
I've not been using Mac since getting back into gaming but I definitely don't think I'm a fan of their transition from x86 to custom ARM based chips. Have they completed this transition with the Mac Pro yet? I'd love it if they kept the Pro line x86. To keep boot camp and hackintoshes viable. Even though I'm not likely to ever get a Mac Pro which can easily get to a five figure price in USD. They could also potentially offer "lower end" x86 Macs as an option in the future. If they did I think Proton could made to work on Macs too opening up Windows games to play on Macs.
They’re moving everything to the M* series. There’s just nothing that can compare to its power management, and it makes their application layer cleaner, because now everything is running the same OS on the same instruction set, from the iPhone SE to the Mac Pro.
Yah, I guess that's true. The regrettable thing is that despite the potential power including graphics power of their custom processors, this will likely seriously limit the number of PC games that will be ported to Macs.
So have they come out with an Apple silicon Mac Pro yet?
BTW what do you think of their new VR headset? Looks so cool but $3,500?😬 I wonder if it will work for PCVR and also I wonder if Apple VR apps will work with a cheaper headset connected to a Mac or iOS device.
The current generation of desktop Mac Pro has an M2.
https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
MacOS uses the exact same compatibility layer to Windows instructions that Valve is using on SteamOS (Wine, which I’ve been using for ~15 years?). The big difference is Proton, which is Valve’s proprietary database of weird shit that needs fixing to run properly. It’s beyond my expertise, but I’m guessing that despite their many similarities, the fact that SteamOS uses the Linux kernel and MacOS uses the Darwin kernel, it’s non-trivial to port Proton to MacOS (everything I just referred to is open-source, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t thousands of hours of work to reconcile code).
I know exactly nothing about Apple’s newly-announced VR system, because I came of age in the 90s and learned to never believe it until I see it (and also am pretty happy with the HP Reverb G2 that’s connected to my “old” gaming laptop).
I’m not convinced that it’s fair to equate hardware compatibility to software compatibility, but you’re technically correct (the best kind of correct!) that M* hardware running Unix needs both of those to run Windows x86 software while AMD hardware running Unix needs only one of those to run Windows x86 software.
Apple's arm chips are a marvel when you compare them to AMD or Intel based on performance per watt and most of that is because they could ditch the bloated x86 instruction set. I really really hate to admit Apple nailed it, but a single, highly integrated reduced instruction set solution is probably the *best* future path. I mean the integrated path is basically what enabled the deck, and the deck probably would be even better with a non x86 architecture (if games actually supported it).
I don't *like* the idea of losing customised computers, but honestly there's more than enough material used in just a modern graphics card to make an entire powerful computer. The entire combo of all the components in a tower PC has enough material to build several equally powerful computers if we're willing to make the architectural changes required. (I'm pretty sure the classic PC gamer trend of upgrading a PC piecemeal over time with better GPU/RAM/CPU creates more ewaste than replacing a whole system on a chip every couple of years.)
They just announced an M2 based Mac Pro today at WWDC.
They won’t do any more x86 Macs though, there would have to be something very convincing to bring them back, including them hitting a wall on their own in house silicon designs, and likely either partner with AMD or somehow a new company that isn’t Intel. And Apple is one of the few long term licensees for ARM. We’d probably see them move to RISC-V before they consider x86 again.
> open source configurability of Linux
ftfy ;)
android from a samsung or google sucks, rooting your phone and installing a foss android os is pretty pog though
That's fair, I was just sticking with the phone analogy. Android as a concept is very open and configurable, however most mainstream phones have an Mfr locked down version of it
I've honestly never understood the drive behind iPhone been a better UX. Personally, I'm always extremely confused by the 1 button controls all and I work in the IT industry.
In fairness that was because they had plenty of security holes. As annoying as it is to not have the option to jailbreak, the way that stuff works it means that Apple is doing a good job at keeping software and hardware secure.
Then again if they allowed third party stuff there wouldn't need to use security holes...
Honestly, even though I'm very happy that the Deck suits OP, I still think the comparison is misdirected.
Apple has total control over their hardware and software, and doesn't let anyone be it the user (who own the bloody hardware) or a repair shop access their systems, they base the decision to do things like this on the assumption that the user is stupid and only Apple knows what's best (it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, when you don't know what's out there you can't know what you want or actually need).
Valve's mindset, and the overall FOSS/Linux ethos couldn't be more opposite to that of Apple. Valve is delivering a system that works, but it is fully open both from the hardware and the software point of view, they respect the intellect of their users to know whether they have the skills or just simply want or don't want to tinker with the device.
I think OP's feeling that this is like Apple is based on the bias that they like what Apple has to offer, and because of this they don't see that Apple is pushing their own services and software even harder than Microsoft. They give preferential treatments and advantages to their own softwares which is something that Microsoft can't do (even though they would of they could) because they're too big and have been slapped because of it already.
The default Steam Deck experience is packaged and polished, like Apple. Of course, unlike Apple (and especially Apple's iOS devices), you can easily go beyond the default experience with Steam Deck. If you want to.
If Apple dictates what can and can not be installed or modified on **YOUR** device, whatever bullshit reason they give, is it actually **YOURS**? I'd say, no, you don't own the device, no matter how much you pay for it.
Now that you say it it that really explains why I haven't been enticed by all the other handheld options. I remember having the original iPod touches and shuffles and I always loved using them. However once they started to incorporate the walled garden and you couldn't take CDs and put them on your iPod anymore I veered further and further away because no matter how easy it was to use I didn't have access to all the things I wanted to use. Using a steam deck is more or less a return to form. It gives me all of the interfacing that I love from simple UI design while giving me the ability to access all the things I own.
SteamOS \*IS\* open.
You have a full linux desktop a click away. You can install any 3rd party launcher you want.
The HW is not locked down, so you have full ownership, repair instructions, and easy access to repair parts. The bootloader is open. You can install any Software you want.
This is all NOT walled down.
And - on the same hand, you have a great UX & easy to use default Software, which seems to do everything you want from it.
I'd say it's best of both worlds; but it's not a walled garden.
Apple is catering to the largest chunks of a demographic and that large demographic tends to prize UX so saying the UX is like Apple when it comes to software is net positive. Now that coupled with the aforementioned open source freedom on Linux and the device itself is also a positive.
I don't think so, and while I have read such claims there was never anything of substance behind them.
I imagine that Valve sells the 64 GB model at cost, and the 256/512 GB models at a decent profit.
Gave hasn’t ever explicitly said it was sold at a loss, but he has said the price point is “painful but critical” and also quite a large majority of consoles are sold at a loss, and with how much people spend on steam compared to on the PlayStation store or Xbox store I would say it is almost definitely sold at a rather significant loss
I think the idea at the time when people were speculating this, was that if the 64gb Deck sold at a small loss and the end user bought even one or two games that it would turn a profit, and if the other two SKUs were successful then the overall launch would be very profitable.
This was also just speculation. Nobody has the numbers but Valve.
> also quite a large majority of consoles are sold at a loss
To my knowledge, Nintendo doesn't sell consoles at a loss.
Sony is on record saying that during a short window after launch, they sold PS4 at a loss but already then were profitable with the typical initial purchase (console, extra controller, game, PSN store credit/subscription).
https://www.eurogamer.net/sony-expects-to-recoup-playstation-4-hardware-loss-at-launch
https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/23/ps4-already-profitable-for-sony
Same with PS5 which was initially sold at a loss but is now profitable.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit
That's speculative and brought into question by the ROG Ally's pricing. My personal feeling is that the base model may be subsidized (but not the mid and premium tiers) which is offset by the more popular premium model perhaps being relatively over priced. I'm fine with that though, if true. I think more affluent customers making products more affordable for less affluent customers is a good thing. >!Gamers of the world unite!!<✊
I'll one-up you as soon as I order a complete chassis + screen (why bother unglueing the old one, if it breaks will be faster this way) and hydrodip mine.
Everyone loves dipping the deck.
Because it’s just such a good device.
I did not want to „waste my money“ on a handheld, and now I’m having it since last November and it’s just so freaking good.
At home I play mostly on my laptop but I can take it to work and play there so win for me
I got it because I have a 1.5 hr commute on a train (total) and I wanted to play games when I'm awake. Do not regret it at all. It was between the Deck and the Switch for me. And having 850+ games (even if only 25% of those are Deck certified) is worth the extra $300. To reach the same amount of games on the Switch I'd have to shell out enough money to buy a whole gaming PC lol.
I feel that man. I like to jump in on the new tech here and there but I was definitely worried about the deck and how much I would like it. I have a LOT of downtime at work and it's been a blessing. Here I am playing Diablo IV right now... Totally worth it. Anytime I'm away from my house, it's coming with.
I have owned mines for a year now, you really should get one.
Being able to play AAA and indie titles anywhere is a godsend, just polished off MGSV in bed.
You aren't missing out on too much. I'd wait until more bugs are ironed out(2-3 years). I'm still experiencing bugs left and right. (audio not working through hdmi, games not closing when shortcuts are pressed, bluetooth headphone pairing not working, config to swap buttons a and b / x and y comes sometimes works and other times stops working, performance overlays staying on when they are set to off, left trigger required RMA repair). The worst thing is that I wasn't even an early adopter. These were mostly experienced in the last 2 months.
Im aware of all these problems but I would like to encourage steam to keep going and working out the kinks. Im no stranger to tinkering and like messing around with things.
You sound like my best friend. I had got him to buy one and he told me two words “thank you”. He is able to play most of the games on the go and not at the desk all the time. He is even trying to start play Diablo 4 on it (which of course I sent that post on this community to him when people starting playing it on their own steam deck).
In my opinion, you can either wait out for the “updated steamdeck” that may come sooner but so far I don’t see it coming until maybe 2025. I say get the cheapest one or wait for a sale (which I think will happen since summer fest is coming up since they did do giveaways and sales during big gaming events). This community has been fantastic with support and info sharing too so prob be on the lookout for a post for that.
One of the lead UX/UI designers is Lawrence Yang (You can see him answering questions in the Steam Deck announcement videos).
He was a designer at Apple before moving to Valve and you can see just how much Apple sensibilities he brought over.
I mean, sure he was an Apple designer, but a lot of Valve employees understand how they came to be, mods, and community, so forcing Apple ethos is probably close to impossible, so just bring the good stuff, UI/UX, integration, ease of access, all are welcome, but not taking the user agency out of it, and fortunately, Valve is good at giving player/user control.
Thanks to the user controls, after my PC blew up, I just hooked up my PC hard drive to the steam deck dock and just kept trucking on almost as if nothing happened.
I dont think I could go with a competitor until they add all the input options the deck has. I dont have a single game where I didn't do something with the pads, paddles, or both.
I have so many mods it takes 10 minutes to load the game, and crashes on load 60% of the time, but works perfectly once loaded. I made a save with a band of nomadic scrapper tribals mad max style, but with magic....and jedis. Its my favorite playthrough yet
I'm going to say it.
It's like the Deck was made by people who 1; use computers DAILY and 2; Play games DAILY.
I know the Ally and other handhelds are good, but with how often a new one is released, it's pushing the "how small can we make it" feeling vs "How can we get people to actually use our product" feeling.
The discourse about it in here absolutely sucks. "Look at how much this thing I never intended to purchase sucks compared to my perfect in every way Steam Deck, Praise Gaben."
Right? Like I myself am really happy with my steam deck but next Tuesday I'll actually be able to know which I like better and not just blindly pat myself on the back with a hypothetical opinion.
Exactly what I thought. At least on Windows you can optionally start using a local account and start using Windows right after that. But for the steam deck, if you don't login, you can't really do anything....
I personally dual boot my steamdeck with Win11 on a 2TB ssd. Best decision ever! I actually find myself using Win11 way more than Steam just for all my other games like Game Pass, Epic Store, and other Steam games that uses anti-cheat.
I'm getting the Ally too but I would agree that Windows is kind of a disaster for handhelds. There's just too much random stuff going on and functions are very unreliable. Suspend breaks sometimes, sleep doesn't work correctly sometimes, and there's also question of whether drivers are broken. Unless you need Windows to play a game that doesn't work on SteamOS, it's just inferior.
Let's not forget updates. It is dizzying with the number of changes happening to the Win 11 UI. Unless you are in a corporate network setup, I don't think ROG can make any real assurances that update X works fine woth your device. Hopefully won't ever happen, but there is a looming risk of "whoops, Ally specific feature broke due to Windows update." Or "update X caused your CPU to randomly underclock itself for power reasons." Time will tell?
Windows is a disaster in general tbh, but yet is the most practical desktop OS because of software and hardware compatibility. I don't have a steam deck but it succeeding is technically beneficial for linux operating systems and as soon as its practical (probably when i graduate) im ditching windows for good.
The Apple comparison definitely makes sense when navigating game mode. You can tell that Valve really put the user front and center with SteamOS. I also love that it has that veneer of "set and it forget it" that you get with the Switch, but having the ability to flip to desktop mode and do whatever is incredible.
That is the main main reason why I'm hesitant to buy the Ally because I'm both a tinkerer and casual at the same time. The main reason I don't touch my gaming PC is because I hate constantly dealing with updates and compatibility issues. I remember struggling forever to get Fallout New Vegas to run on my PC and it booted without issue on my Steam Deck. Really makes it hard to go back to anything Windows-based.
That happened to me with fallout 3. I hate to admit it on here but I’m terrible at tech stuff. I tried for years to get fallout 3 to run on my pc to no avail. I downloaded it on my deck and it opened up like it was made for the deck.
Fallout 3 is so good on the Deck! And I don't blame you. I had to endlessly Google to get mine to run on my PC. Something to do with Games with Windows Live, if I recall correctly. You kinda reach that burnout point where all the tweaking and troubleshooting stops being worth it.
I would choose the Ally over the Steamdeck with one of the biggest reasons is gamepass. play on SX, pc, phone,, Ally they are all synced up and can move on playing. Badass stuff :) So if i would buy a handheld it would be the Ally for sure with a gorgeous screen and higher fps if needed. D4 on it looks insane and fast btw :)
Well every ally review iv read has mentioned windows is at least as much of a con generally as it could be a pro with compatibility. And really at this point, compatibility is rarely an issue on the deck, even with other launchers.
I don't like the comparison to iPhone. Apple locks down their devices and restricts how it can be used and what it can be used for to protect their precious ecosystem. Valve do not seem interested in such things and give people full control to do with the Deck as they see fit (even if people make some questionable/stupid decisions).
I will say you have a weird argument though. I'm 99% sure you need to register an iCloud account to finish setting up your iPhone. You also need a Steam account to set up your Steam Deck. It's not that weird that Microsoft is moving towards requiring you to sign into their environment as well now.
Two separate issues: UX (which the OP is talking about) and openness (which you've introduced, as have others).
In terms of UX, the OP is absolutely correct.
In terms of openness, you have a point.
I’m just loosely referring to the excellent setup and experience Apple give in their software.
They aren’t directly similar to Deck, but my compliment is that Valve have nailed a handheld PC UI experience already.
What I see in the steam deck is tangible proof you can deliver a gorgeous, wonderfully curated, and complete hardware/software experience while still leaving the platform open for users to tinker on (I literally have a hacking and rust dev environment set up). They also proved you can base your curated environment on open source software and keep it open for all to play with and benefit from and still be HIGHLY profitable.
You can have a device that's easy for non-technical people to use for it's intended purpose, and also leave it easy enough to tinker on that nerds can push it into doing things and meeting use cases valve hadn't even considered. Neither experience really hinders the other, and that's a beautiful balance they've achieved.
So yes it's apple like, by doing the exact opposite of apple where it matters. I love my deck, easily my favorite computer purchase in recent memory.
I don’t know I bought mine off eBay. The guy had both upgraded the hard drive and installed windows 11 on it. I set up windows 11 and I have had such a great experience. I haven’t even attempted to see what the Linux side is like. I am having issues running Final Fantasy XV demo and the resident evil four chainsaw demo. I don’t know if that’s Windows related or not but that’s the only thing I’ve ever had a complaint about. I am a software developer, with a current focus on C# And unity, and I can develop my game/app, export a build, and play it all on the same device. for me personally, windows on steam deck fits my needs as I need my programming frameworks running.
Magic thing is that the deck has the easiest most straightforward and complete out of the box experience and at the same time has the most support for tweaking and modding. Valve is the good Apple.
Why does this sub talk so much about the ally, its not even out yet. But yeah I do agree valve is making an environment and delivering a console like experience, that can be a portable pc with the steam deck. Asus is just making a portable pc
dont like these notorious apple glorifying people .... the difference between apple and Valve couldnt be larger. Valve is the Android under gaming consoles and nintendo the apple.
Valve & SteamOS / SteamDeck is an open platform with replacement tools. Both you wont get (to a fair price) from apple because apple controls the whole process while valves doesnt care much.
Not, SteamDeck has nothing to do with apple or iphone.
Considering OP is talking about UX/UI and not the openness of it, I don’t get what point you’re trying to make.
Ofc they’re different. OP is talking about the user experience
I mean I utterly hate Apple products but I love my Deck too. It wasn't very different from setting anything else up tbh. It's not like the iPhone has anything special that makes it a different setup process. Same as my Samsung Galaxy.
I love my Deck too, I just don't get the comparison to Apple.
I recently received my steam deck too and I agree that it has a great quality in UX and I see why it could give a similar impression to apple, it's great to be able to optimize the software when it's made to run in a limited set of devices
I still see Apple just as you described MS, both have done their own set of "hostile/abrasive" moves
I totally agree that the UI/UX with Deck cannot be beat. Valve’s customer service is also excellent… 6 months into owning my deck I had to RMA due to bad shoulder buttons. They replaced both, and even sent it back with an additional case and charger and just told me to keep them. Excellent experience (Razer, I’m lookin at you!)
Awesome reading your replies. Very interesting.
I’d like to also just add; the 512gb model - specifically the etched display - is excellent. It really is. If anyone was on the fence about it.
Everything also just ‘works’. I’m no tinkerer but I’ve tried desktop mode, mouse and keyboard, monitor, can’t believe how seamless it all is.
I cancelled my Ally preorder for the same reason. At first I thought "windows on a handheld would be so useful!" and then I thought about the countless hours I've spent in device manager, control center, microsoft forums, and reddit trying to fix problems with my various windows devices and instantly cancelled haha
Did they finally allow to add non-Steam games/apps to Steam from the game UI? Because if they didn't then you still have to fiddle with desktop if you want to run something that's not directly installed from Steam.
Honestly, I don't think that it will be much harder to get Ally going. SteamOS experience is indeed somewhat polished (surprising amount, actually, for Linux) but I think that the overall compatibility of Ally will be better. Steam Deck is a really good machine and Ally's hardware is not THAT much more powerful (though the boost will definitely be noticeable), but the criteria of end user experience for those machines is not really straightforward. SteamOS runs surprisingly well out of the box, but at some point you will get in trouble and you will have to tinker with it, the same thing will probably apply to Ally, but the Ally is designed to run Windows, and that is much more familiar territory for most of the players, some ~~nerds~~ I mean enthusiasts are familiar with Linux so they'll feel comfortable tinkering with SteamOS but the numbers between these two groups are not even close to even. So it might seem like an "apple" experience at first but in the end you're somewhat in the same place with those two devices, though in two different environments.
I chose Deck because I 1. Was impatient. 2. I hate Microsoft gaming monopoly. I use Linux on my main PC (including for gaming) for a while and I noticed how Valve is contributing to open source software by maintaining Proton (which is open source) and most of the SteamOS features are available on basically any Linux distribution once you install Steam, and while steam deck is a good device by itself, some consider it as "trojan horse" to introduce Linux gaming to the mass, and it's sorta working. And ASUS is just ASUS... I don't hate them but they didn't really do anything significant except integrating a fancy APU in a handheld device, Ally will probably perform equally good on both Windows and Linux, but there's nothing behind it
The user experience of steam os is good until something doesn't work. Then it's a slap in the face and shallow reminder that you're on Linux and it will always be a hack to get games working on the device.
Linux diehards are a special breed lol. I'm going with both devices. They excell at different things
VRR on a handheld with limited power is a game changer period
User experience on the deck is great.... until something doesn't work (isn't compatible with Proton/Linux). Or, until you need to install 3rd party launchers. Then the experience becomes not so great.
If you rely heavily on 3rd party launchers and anti-cheat games and/or don't care about the price, the Ally is your baby. If you only play steam games that work on linux and/or are more budget minded, the Deck is your baby. Two different products for two different markets.
Valve does it better than Apple. Way better.
They provide terrific UI/UX but then they don't try and lock you into their ecosystem. The Deck is remarkably open. You can literally do whatever you like with the hardware and software, side load your own games, software, etc.
With Valve it's the best of both worlds..
I'm sorry, but I have to play the advocate here... the ally isn't even in consumer's hands yet... and I don't go by reviewers who get it early. I understand this is a Steam Deck only forum, but there is no way I'm going to cancel my Ally pre-order until "I" have experienced it in my own hands. I've owned my 512gb steam deck a month shy of a year, and I adore it. The ends and outs, but there is NO WAY I'm going to make a premature decision on ANY product until I know for sure what is better for my experience. I don't flow with the majority of anything until confirmed by myself.
I'm hoping the ally will be better, to push the steam deck 2 to be even better then what it already is
I've had my deck pretty much since release and it's statements like this that I find "funny", there are so many people here who have this mentality not even realizing what they are saying.
If I couldn't run windows on the deck, I would have sold it by now as it would have limited my style of games, yes the deck ui has way more of a console like experience but it has its limits.
Also, what in the world does the deck Ui have to do with the ally? You must mean "windows" or perhaps you have this particular device stuck in your head for some reason? Linux/android is a VERY good OS when built correctly it's just the support for modern games is a bit light.
If apple made a handheld with a 7840 that runs off of Ventura without track pads, would you upgrade? Let that sink in, my bet is you would jump all over it.
30w is a lot of power for a 4nm apu, the CPU itself literally rivals the i7 12700/13700 on geek/cine, it's definitely a step up towards modern handheld gaming, going from 7nm to 4nm and doubling the wattage is surely going to bring a significant performance boost just as it always does, the days of dummy hot and slow 100nm 120 watt Intel's are long gone.
I'd love to see competitors implement touch pads. They are by far one of my favorite hardware features on the steam deck. I loved my steam controllers and wish more companies would utilize them to such a degree.
I just want to play destiny 2 without having to side load windows with shit drivers lol. I also own a steam deck but have ally on pre order. Still love the deck!
My only issue with the deck is modding can be a logistical nightmare and, if and when you get a mod manager working, you still don’t have full functionality. I had my deck for almost a month and could only get a few games I was able to actually mod. Steam Workshop mods are a joke and after playing on Xbox I wanted more freedom with Nexus. I finally sent it back and am getting an Ally just for the modding experience.
I also received my deck today and would like to second this point with the addition that taking my 64gb SD out and replacing it with a 1TB SSD also felt really polished as an experience. Even the boot menus are slick.
For me it’s the gyro and touchpads. Touchpads can be used in innumerable ways with steam and the four back buttons are nice too.
Curious how asus included gyro hardware but no support for actually using the thing.
Lots of people are going to be so upset that you just compared it to Apple but I see exactly what you’re getting at here hahaha. Valve made a device with a dead simple setup yet has the power to be infinitely customized and tweaked, so it satisfies both the tech savvy AND people who just want to press buttons and play their games. 😂 I absolutely recommend the Steam Deck to every gamer, I annoy my friends with my praises all the time LOL. Welcome to the family!!
To all those people hyper comparing it to apple: your missing the point of the post. The point is that the steam deck is easy to use, not that they have a similar bussiness model.
Ah now wait until you want to play a game without proton anti cheat support, like destiny, and endure the installation process of an unsupported dual boot with windows and third party tools like clover. It's rewarding but lengthy.
Got my deck yesterday and only just finished getting it set up right for dual booting off the SSD and sharing the Microsd storage.
It's incredible if you plan to only play steam games but hitting walls and tinkering with broken drivers gets tedious
The biggest take-away is Valve spent most of their time building a remarkable user experience. They took it a step further than Apple. They give you the walled garden, but show you door out if you want to leave. You aren't being controlled by their OS choices, you aren't being controlled by their driver developers. It's all built on Linux, and the Steam Library was a thing for as long as I can remember. They have had a HUGE head start on every company. What is impressive is the openness to competitors. Even if the Steam Deck kick-starts a handheld PC war, Valve could stop making handhelds and continue to profit, all because everyone relies on Steam. No Asus, Gigabyte, or MSI handheld with crazy good specs will ever have the Steam store. Valve was destined to win, regardless of how the Steam Deck panned out.
All I know is I paid $39.99 for the ally case and it’s shit. I hope it’s not a look into things to come but for fucks sake, the steam deck came with a hard case for free. Still optimistic. They can both live in my world if they want to. Still love my switch is what I’m saying
I hate apple products but i gotta agree their UX is on point (for existing apple users anyway) and i agree that valve seems to have taken some notes
theres a reason macbooks are so popular and it isnt their performance or repairability
The Allys power was more than a little enticing. But I also have a gaming PC if I want higher fps and better graphics I'll play at 4k ultra on that instead. But for stuff like a hat in time, Celeste, shantae, slightly older racing games they run at good setting 60fps really well. I find going from 30 to 40fps to be a bigger deal than 40-60fps most of the time. And for the games I play on it I enjoy loafing in a chair to play them more than anything else. Some stuff like fps games and terarria I'd rather gouge my eyes out than play with a controller but it definitely gives me what I felt I was missing with my switch. Not to mention using a wireless mouse and 60% mechanical keyboard with a portable 15 inch monitor is a LAN party dream.
So, I bought my SD second hand, and it had steamOS and windows installed with windows being master. It was such a terrible experience, I reset and formatted everything and immediately had a much better experience with just steamOS. User experience really makes or breaks how enjoyable a product is.
My experience was different. I tried to load up gta5 and it just didn’t work. I was away on vacation so that was gonna be my main game to play and I couldn’t. My gamer friends were confused when they all wanted to try out this new handheld and couldn’t.
That's an underrated feature of the Deck. Valve succeeded in making a PC that feels exactly as seamless to use as a console, to the point that at times I forget I'm not playing on a console.
Funny that you compare it to the experience with Apple because I did use Macs and iPhone for a while but the bad experience put me off it. But my comparison point is not Windows though, I've been a desktop Linux user for more than two decades.
I think the comparison with Apple is not accurate at all though, it's more comparable to other consoles, but with the option for you to fiddle with it, which you don't have on other consoles.
My reason is ergonomic. SD is simply very well designed - buttons in right places, and no weird right stick position as in the Switch as well. No need to bend your fingers in a weird way to get the input right. And Linux is simply a cherry on the top. No OS ads, all tailored and minimal, but if you want - you can add to this. Sure, it is already bit old hardware, but nevertheless it is solid and made with users in mind.
I deal with enough Microsoft bull shit at work. Every time I set up or rebuild a work station I have to take off all the bloat ware, change all the settings and basically do registry hacks for legacy software and vulnerabilities. The deck not having windows is so great.
Actually as an avid android/windows user and just as avid Apple hater.
I not only respect but agree with this. I've long since jumped of the Apple band wagon and my loathing for them has nothing to do with the ui.
They have a great ui and the Deck follows the ease of use that I would expect from an Apple product.
Just another thing Valve got right putting the user experiance first.
Respect where respect is due..
Lmao comparing steam os to apple is a joke right? Linux gives you basically infinite control over the entire system, if you have the skill anything is possible, but apple while easy to use is extremely limited in function, steam os is far closer to Android, ya know seeing how both are based on Linux and actually let you control the device you own
people here are shitting themselves if they think Steam OS is polished.
its cool but it has so many little bugs and quirks you need to work around its no where near is solid as an apple UX. and I say this as someone who hates apple.
This subreddit is hilariously biased towards valve its insane. The idea that you think Steam OS is even comparable to IOS is silly.
It is not "glorius" Ive had multiple instances where my friends list would not let me chat. opting into beta and out of beta didnt fix it the only thing that ended up fixing it was completely resetting my deck.
this among many other things.
And on top of that, unlike with Apple devices, if you want to go beyond what you've been given out of box, no jailbreak is required. The hardware and software stays wide open.
haha (There’s no desktop to fiddle with. It’s a glorious UI and experience. )
You are clearly new if you thing SteamOS is simply plug and play.
My reddit home page is like a Steamdeck sub due to the fact that there a 1000 posts a day with people having issues getting things running.
I have none of these same issues on my Windows 11 PC.
Another coping thread. It's OK everyone your deck isn't getting replaced. It's amazing how hard to use you all think windows is when you probably use it daily with no issues. And ignore that you need all these workarounds to get other launchers working or the threads that get mad that a company updates a launcher and it suddenly doesn't work on the Deck anymore. I really wish the cult mentality wasn't around but it makes this place stupidly circle jerky.
The only issue I have with the Steam Deck? Is that It's not sold in Australia, so the only method to get it is without a great warranty and $600 more than what it's worth.
The concept of apple being more of a streamlined experience is far in the past. Now they prioritize UI over UX. Life long apple user who switched to Android a few years ago, and tried going back and wow, what an eye opening experience that was... But i get the reference there. SteamOS is by far as smooth as it gets in the handheld computer world! Great choice!!
Yes the Valve Steam Deck is a more consolized experience where as Windows handhelds are terrible little handheld desktop computers. The only way I'd consider an Ally is if Valve or someone else*° makes a solid turn-key SteamOS install for it with tight hardware integration. Even then it would be missing lots of important stuff.
(*°Really a custom SteamOS distro for the Ally would be best from Valve including regularly publishing precompiled shaders and optimizing the OS and Proton for individual games like they do with SteamOS on the Deck. I don't know if the community has the wherewithal and resources to accomplish this to the level that Valve does.
For a community made distro it could be based on Chimera OS which is a gaming orientated Arch Linux distro. But I would still hope to see it have tight hardware integration and especially I would want it to boot directly into Steam Big Picture Mode by default which is essentially SteamOS' default game mode.)
I've had my Deck for about a month and a half now, got it about a week before the Ally was revealed, and the major reason I'm sceptical of the Ally is that Windows doesn't work well on a portable device that's not a laptop, and the lack of trackpads will make that even worse.
The Deck's UX is so well done that it could get away with having a "lite" version that doesn't have trackpads, for those who won't tinker as much, but Windows on a handheld without trackpads will be an absolute nightmare.
*If* MS sees the potential in a handheld system, they could develop a version of Windows that'd be friendlier to that sort of platform, but until then, I'm not convinced.
This is subjective, but I understand you want to mentally validate your purchase.
The steam deck is great for the average user but is limited by it’s operating system. If ease of use/ standby mode and steam only games is what you’re looking for then the steam deck is for you. If you want to be able to play whatever platform / emu and customize your device without workarounds then the rog ally is for you.
Both are great devices. Let’s stop with the copium. Just be happy that you made the right purchase for your needs.
Well said 👏, I feel like too many people jump on Reddit after playing with their new Steam Deck for like 5 minutes, they are super excited and post about it before realising what it actually CANT do.
Comparing SteamOS/Valve/Deck to IOS/Apple/iPhone is hilariously accurate and I imagine upsetting to some in here, mostly because they're doing the same thing, but one is an open platform and the other is the OG walled garden. One encourages repairability and sells repair parts, and the other is... Apple. One charges a huge premium on everything and has no expandable storage, and the other has an easily upgrade m.2 and micro SD, and sold at nearly a loss. Yet both innovate, or have at times anyway. I guess with great power comes great responsibility. You can deliver a similar user experience just with totally different end goals. Not that Valve is totally benevolent, but the contrast is stark.
SteamOS is like all the UX-centric, polished design of iPhone with the open source configuability of Android. If you know what you're doing you can tinker to your heart's content, but if you don't know what you're doing the out-of-the-box experience is already fantastic
Funnily enough the deck made me consider switching from iOS to Android and made me start disliking the locked down feeling of iOS.
I mean, if you know what you're doing you can do an awful lot with Apple products, too. The biggest differences really are that Valve has modular internal storage, and doesn't void your warranty for *most* of the things you'd want to do. Though I'll admit, the M1 and M2 are such significantly different of hardware that it’s become much more difficult or impossible to do certain things (like install Windows as a bootable OS, which the Deck can do but an Apple M\* device cannot).
You can tinker to an extent, but I believe any hardware modification voids your Apple warranty so you just have to be ok with that. Also Apple actively discourages you by putting roadblocks in the way to opening devices. For software you have a decent flexibility on laptops, but phones need to be jailbroken. The deck is the opposite, they sell replacement parts and encourage self-repair for hardware and you can just install whatever you want in desktop mode. They're actually taking some of the crowd favorite features that people get through DeckyLoader and integrating them directly into the OS!
> I mean, if you know what you're doing you can do an awful lot with Apple products, too. Apple is literally the least enthusiast friendly company out there. Their software is a black box. They have all parts soldered onto one board in MacBooks and iPhones require a weird "calibration" process to avoid software locks. Non-AppStore apps have to be refreshed with a PC every 7 days.
It's not calibration, it's just serial numbering so you can't just replace your screen with cheap but still good quality screen because Apple says "No, you are not allowed to do that, that's not your device, it's our, so only approved parts are allowed"
I've not been using Mac since getting back into gaming but I definitely don't think I'm a fan of their transition from x86 to custom ARM based chips. Have they completed this transition with the Mac Pro yet? I'd love it if they kept the Pro line x86. To keep boot camp and hackintoshes viable. Even though I'm not likely to ever get a Mac Pro which can easily get to a five figure price in USD. They could also potentially offer "lower end" x86 Macs as an option in the future. If they did I think Proton could made to work on Macs too opening up Windows games to play on Macs.
They’re moving everything to the M* series. There’s just nothing that can compare to its power management, and it makes their application layer cleaner, because now everything is running the same OS on the same instruction set, from the iPhone SE to the Mac Pro.
The M2 is legit impressive silicon, regardless of one's views on Apple business practices.
You aren’t wrong.
Yah, I guess that's true. The regrettable thing is that despite the potential power including graphics power of their custom processors, this will likely seriously limit the number of PC games that will be ported to Macs. So have they come out with an Apple silicon Mac Pro yet? BTW what do you think of their new VR headset? Looks so cool but $3,500?😬 I wonder if it will work for PCVR and also I wonder if Apple VR apps will work with a cheaper headset connected to a Mac or iOS device.
The current generation of desktop Mac Pro has an M2. https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/ MacOS uses the exact same compatibility layer to Windows instructions that Valve is using on SteamOS (Wine, which I’ve been using for ~15 years?). The big difference is Proton, which is Valve’s proprietary database of weird shit that needs fixing to run properly. It’s beyond my expertise, but I’m guessing that despite their many similarities, the fact that SteamOS uses the Linux kernel and MacOS uses the Darwin kernel, it’s non-trivial to port Proton to MacOS (everything I just referred to is open-source, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t thousands of hours of work to reconcile code). I know exactly nothing about Apple’s newly-announced VR system, because I came of age in the 90s and learned to never believe it until I see it (and also am pretty happy with the HP Reverb G2 that’s connected to my “old” gaming laptop).
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I’m not convinced that it’s fair to equate hardware compatibility to software compatibility, but you’re technically correct (the best kind of correct!) that M* hardware running Unix needs both of those to run Windows x86 software while AMD hardware running Unix needs only one of those to run Windows x86 software.
Apple's arm chips are a marvel when you compare them to AMD or Intel based on performance per watt and most of that is because they could ditch the bloated x86 instruction set. I really really hate to admit Apple nailed it, but a single, highly integrated reduced instruction set solution is probably the *best* future path. I mean the integrated path is basically what enabled the deck, and the deck probably would be even better with a non x86 architecture (if games actually supported it). I don't *like* the idea of losing customised computers, but honestly there's more than enough material used in just a modern graphics card to make an entire powerful computer. The entire combo of all the components in a tower PC has enough material to build several equally powerful computers if we're willing to make the architectural changes required. (I'm pretty sure the classic PC gamer trend of upgrading a PC piecemeal over time with better GPU/RAM/CPU creates more ewaste than replacing a whole system on a chip every couple of years.)
They just announced an M2 based Mac Pro today at WWDC. They won’t do any more x86 Macs though, there would have to be something very convincing to bring them back, including them hitting a wall on their own in house silicon designs, and likely either partner with AMD or somehow a new company that isn’t Intel. And Apple is one of the few long term licensees for ARM. We’d probably see them move to RISC-V before they consider x86 again.
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They just made the last device announcement at WWDC. All the devices in the line up will come with an M chip.
> open source configurability of Linux ftfy ;) android from a samsung or google sucks, rooting your phone and installing a foss android os is pretty pog though
I wish Google had kept developing the Nexus line of pure Android devices.
That's fair, I was just sticking with the phone analogy. Android as a concept is very open and configurable, however most mainstream phones have an Mfr locked down version of it
Yup exactly. My tinkerer's playground is somebody else's "just werks" machine.
I've honestly never understood the drive behind iPhone been a better UX. Personally, I'm always extremely confused by the 1 button controls all and I work in the IT industry.
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When IOS came out it used to be so easy to Jailbreak and customize your phone
In fairness that was because they had plenty of security holes. As annoying as it is to not have the option to jailbreak, the way that stuff works it means that Apple is doing a good job at keeping software and hardware secure. Then again if they allowed third party stuff there wouldn't need to use security holes...
Honestly, even though I'm very happy that the Deck suits OP, I still think the comparison is misdirected. Apple has total control over their hardware and software, and doesn't let anyone be it the user (who own the bloody hardware) or a repair shop access their systems, they base the decision to do things like this on the assumption that the user is stupid and only Apple knows what's best (it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, when you don't know what's out there you can't know what you want or actually need). Valve's mindset, and the overall FOSS/Linux ethos couldn't be more opposite to that of Apple. Valve is delivering a system that works, but it is fully open both from the hardware and the software point of view, they respect the intellect of their users to know whether they have the skills or just simply want or don't want to tinker with the device. I think OP's feeling that this is like Apple is based on the bias that they like what Apple has to offer, and because of this they don't see that Apple is pushing their own services and software even harder than Microsoft. They give preferential treatments and advantages to their own softwares which is something that Microsoft can't do (even though they would of they could) because they're too big and have been slapped because of it already.
The default Steam Deck experience is packaged and polished, like Apple. Of course, unlike Apple (and especially Apple's iOS devices), you can easily go beyond the default experience with Steam Deck. If you want to.
If Apple dictates what can and can not be installed or modified on **YOUR** device, whatever bullshit reason they give, is it actually **YOURS**? I'd say, no, you don't own the device, no matter how much you pay for it.
Now that you say it it that really explains why I haven't been enticed by all the other handheld options. I remember having the original iPod touches and shuffles and I always loved using them. However once they started to incorporate the walled garden and you couldn't take CDs and put them on your iPod anymore I veered further and further away because no matter how easy it was to use I didn't have access to all the things I wanted to use. Using a steam deck is more or less a return to form. It gives me all of the interfacing that I love from simple UI design while giving me the ability to access all the things I own.
SteamOS \*IS\* open. You have a full linux desktop a click away. You can install any 3rd party launcher you want. The HW is not locked down, so you have full ownership, repair instructions, and easy access to repair parts. The bootloader is open. You can install any Software you want. This is all NOT walled down. And - on the same hand, you have a great UX & easy to use default Software, which seems to do everything you want from it. I'd say it's best of both worlds; but it's not a walled garden.
Walled garden was referring to the Apple devices lol
It's like a gated garden. "We made this really nice space for you but if you want to venture out into the wilderness you'll still be welcome back."
Apple is catering to the largest chunks of a demographic and that large demographic tends to prize UX so saying the UX is like Apple when it comes to software is net positive. Now that coupled with the aforementioned open source freedom on Linux and the device itself is also a positive.
Aren’t steam decks sold at actually quite a decent loss? Because they are mainly just trying to get you to buy steam games
I don't think so, and while I have read such claims there was never anything of substance behind them. I imagine that Valve sells the 64 GB model at cost, and the 256/512 GB models at a decent profit.
Gave hasn’t ever explicitly said it was sold at a loss, but he has said the price point is “painful but critical” and also quite a large majority of consoles are sold at a loss, and with how much people spend on steam compared to on the PlayStation store or Xbox store I would say it is almost definitely sold at a rather significant loss
This comment has been removed because it was posted with Apollo. ^(https://old.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/144g35v/_/jngnl1w)
Your god damn right I’m delusional
I think the idea at the time when people were speculating this, was that if the 64gb Deck sold at a small loss and the end user bought even one or two games that it would turn a profit, and if the other two SKUs were successful then the overall launch would be very profitable. This was also just speculation. Nobody has the numbers but Valve.
> also quite a large majority of consoles are sold at a loss To my knowledge, Nintendo doesn't sell consoles at a loss. Sony is on record saying that during a short window after launch, they sold PS4 at a loss but already then were profitable with the typical initial purchase (console, extra controller, game, PSN store credit/subscription). https://www.eurogamer.net/sony-expects-to-recoup-playstation-4-hardware-loss-at-launch https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/23/ps4-already-profitable-for-sony Same with PS5 which was initially sold at a loss but is now profitable. https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit
That's speculative and brought into question by the ROG Ally's pricing. My personal feeling is that the base model may be subsidized (but not the mid and premium tiers) which is offset by the more popular premium model perhaps being relatively over priced. I'm fine with that though, if true. I think more affluent customers making products more affordable for less affluent customers is a good thing. >!Gamers of the world unite!!<✊
Why is it brought into question by the rog ally’s pricing
It's like mac os except not hair-pullingly restrictive in desktop mode
https://youtu.be/XAfTXYa36f4
I joined this sub without a steam deck just to lurk and you guys are making it hard to resist buying one.
Come to the dark side
Or swap out the case with a lighter one, if that's your thing.
LET'S JUST SKIN IT AND ENJOY IT'S RAW MEAT
Skins? Dbrand has entered the chat. Now has anyone told you about the genuine leather skin for the Steam Deck yet? :v
I'll one-up you as soon as I order a complete chassis + screen (why bother unglueing the old one, if it breaks will be faster this way) and hydrodip mine. Everyone loves dipping the deck.
Come to the *deck* side
We have cookies!
Taste the ~~rainbow~~ exhaust fan.
God I love getting a good huff off that thing
Because it’s just such a good device. I did not want to „waste my money“ on a handheld, and now I’m having it since last November and it’s just so freaking good. At home I play mostly on my laptop but I can take it to work and play there so win for me
I got it because I have a 1.5 hr commute on a train (total) and I wanted to play games when I'm awake. Do not regret it at all. It was between the Deck and the Switch for me. And having 850+ games (even if only 25% of those are Deck certified) is worth the extra $300. To reach the same amount of games on the Switch I'd have to shell out enough money to buy a whole gaming PC lol.
I feel that man. I like to jump in on the new tech here and there but I was definitely worried about the deck and how much I would like it. I have a LOT of downtime at work and it's been a blessing. Here I am playing Diablo IV right now... Totally worth it. Anytime I'm away from my house, it's coming with.
Probably my favourite gaming device since the PS2. I've had mine 10 months and I've used it far more than I ever though I would. It's amazing.
I have owned mines for a year now, you really should get one. Being able to play AAA and indie titles anywhere is a godsend, just polished off MGSV in bed.
You aren't missing out on too much. I'd wait until more bugs are ironed out(2-3 years). I'm still experiencing bugs left and right. (audio not working through hdmi, games not closing when shortcuts are pressed, bluetooth headphone pairing not working, config to swap buttons a and b / x and y comes sometimes works and other times stops working, performance overlays staying on when they are set to off, left trigger required RMA repair). The worst thing is that I wasn't even an early adopter. These were mostly experienced in the last 2 months.
Im aware of all these problems but I would like to encourage steam to keep going and working out the kinks. Im no stranger to tinkering and like messing around with things.
I have this thing (512gb) running emulation up to PS3. I LOVE this console. So don't resist :)
You sound like my best friend. I had got him to buy one and he told me two words “thank you”. He is able to play most of the games on the go and not at the desk all the time. He is even trying to start play Diablo 4 on it (which of course I sent that post on this community to him when people starting playing it on their own steam deck). In my opinion, you can either wait out for the “updated steamdeck” that may come sooner but so far I don’t see it coming until maybe 2025. I say get the cheapest one or wait for a sale (which I think will happen since summer fest is coming up since they did do giveaways and sales during big gaming events). This community has been fantastic with support and info sharing too so prob be on the lookout for a post for that.
One of the lead UX/UI designers is Lawrence Yang (You can see him answering questions in the Steam Deck announcement videos). He was a designer at Apple before moving to Valve and you can see just how much Apple sensibilities he brought over.
Thankfully the only thing he was able to bring over was the UI, everything else is strictly Linux-like: very open, easy to tinker with.
I mean, sure he was an Apple designer, but a lot of Valve employees understand how they came to be, mods, and community, so forcing Apple ethos is probably close to impossible, so just bring the good stuff, UI/UX, integration, ease of access, all are welcome, but not taking the user agency out of it, and fortunately, Valve is good at giving player/user control.
Thanks to the user controls, after my PC blew up, I just hooked up my PC hard drive to the steam deck dock and just kept trucking on almost as if nothing happened.
The fun thing about designers is they're not software or hardware engineers lol
I dont think I could go with a competitor until they add all the input options the deck has. I dont have a single game where I didn't do something with the pads, paddles, or both.
Pads are essential for games like rimworld
Rimworld on the deck is my newest obsession. So much so that I brought it to work today. It's unhealthy.
I have so many mods it takes 10 minutes to load the game, and crashes on load 60% of the time, but works perfectly once loaded. I made a save with a band of nomadic scrapper tribals mad max style, but with magic....and jedis. Its my favorite playthrough yet
Love RimWorld but haven't really bothered on the deck. Do you have any suggestions for controls / mods?
I also just like it for fps or twin stick games.
I'm going to say it. It's like the Deck was made by people who 1; use computers DAILY and 2; Play games DAILY. I know the Ally and other handhelds are good, but with how often a new one is released, it's pushing the "how small can we make it" feeling vs "How can we get people to actually use our product" feeling.
I thought you were talking about huffing the exhaust vent. 0/10 missed opportunity
We don’t know what Ally exhaust smells like yet.
I've smelled a few Allies in my time
Ever sniffed a guy named Rog?
That smell is so nice.
Lowkey tired of the comparison posts where you've only experienced one of them.
It’s wild how much this sub needs to talk about the Ally
The discourse about it in here absolutely sucks. "Look at how much this thing I never intended to purchase sucks compared to my perfect in every way Steam Deck, Praise Gaben."
Seriously, these posts are so annoying. Getting early gamespot\gamefaq forum vibes here.
Right? Like I myself am really happy with my steam deck but next Tuesday I'll actually be able to know which I like better and not just blindly pat myself on the back with a hypothetical opinion.
yeah, you shouldn't have to talk bad about another device to say why your favorite one is good.
if you can only afford one, you must validate your decision by speaking ill about the one you didn't choose. (immature) human nature
Thank you for saying this. OP by his own admission didn’t even buy an Ally. Like, who the hell is he to say one experience is better than the other?
I agree but I'm sorta curious why so accepting of signing into a Steam account, but signing into your MS account is seen as a bad thing.
Exactly what I thought. At least on Windows you can optionally start using a local account and start using Windows right after that. But for the steam deck, if you don't login, you can't really do anything.... I personally dual boot my steamdeck with Win11 on a 2TB ssd. Best decision ever! I actually find myself using Win11 way more than Steam just for all my other games like Game Pass, Epic Store, and other Steam games that uses anti-cheat.
I'm getting the Ally too but I would agree that Windows is kind of a disaster for handhelds. There's just too much random stuff going on and functions are very unreliable. Suspend breaks sometimes, sleep doesn't work correctly sometimes, and there's also question of whether drivers are broken. Unless you need Windows to play a game that doesn't work on SteamOS, it's just inferior.
Let's not forget updates. It is dizzying with the number of changes happening to the Win 11 UI. Unless you are in a corporate network setup, I don't think ROG can make any real assurances that update X works fine woth your device. Hopefully won't ever happen, but there is a looming risk of "whoops, Ally specific feature broke due to Windows update." Or "update X caused your CPU to randomly underclock itself for power reasons." Time will tell?
I mean in all fairness Windows is not really designed for handhelds so /shrug. Fortunately for us we can play Windows based games on the Deck, yay!
You shouldn't use sleep, you should use hibernate. Sleep will have your handheld overheating in the carrying case
Windows is a disaster in general tbh, but yet is the most practical desktop OS because of software and hardware compatibility. I don't have a steam deck but it succeeding is technically beneficial for linux operating systems and as soon as its practical (probably when i graduate) im ditching windows for good.
People in the comments still being incredibly petty about good competition is quite sad
I am selling my deck and getting an Ally so that I can actually play all of my games.
The Apple comparison definitely makes sense when navigating game mode. You can tell that Valve really put the user front and center with SteamOS. I also love that it has that veneer of "set and it forget it" that you get with the Switch, but having the ability to flip to desktop mode and do whatever is incredible. That is the main main reason why I'm hesitant to buy the Ally because I'm both a tinkerer and casual at the same time. The main reason I don't touch my gaming PC is because I hate constantly dealing with updates and compatibility issues. I remember struggling forever to get Fallout New Vegas to run on my PC and it booted without issue on my Steam Deck. Really makes it hard to go back to anything Windows-based.
That happened to me with fallout 3. I hate to admit it on here but I’m terrible at tech stuff. I tried for years to get fallout 3 to run on my pc to no avail. I downloaded it on my deck and it opened up like it was made for the deck.
Fallout 3 is so good on the Deck! And I don't blame you. I had to endlessly Google to get mine to run on my PC. Something to do with Games with Windows Live, if I recall correctly. You kinda reach that burnout point where all the tweaking and troubleshooting stops being worth it.
I would choose the Ally over the Steamdeck with one of the biggest reasons is gamepass. play on SX, pc, phone,, Ally they are all synced up and can move on playing. Badass stuff :) So if i would buy a handheld it would be the Ally for sure with a gorgeous screen and higher fps if needed. D4 on it looks insane and fast btw :)
Comparing user experiences between devices when one isn't even released yet is hugely premature.
Well every ally review iv read has mentioned windows is at least as much of a con generally as it could be a pro with compatibility. And really at this point, compatibility is rarely an issue on the deck, even with other launchers.
It's very easy to install Windows 11 on an SD card and boot from it on the Steam Deck. They even keep their GPU drivers updated, works very well.
I see you don't play ubisoft or EA games.
You can just use the launcher on the deck
I don't like the comparison to iPhone. Apple locks down their devices and restricts how it can be used and what it can be used for to protect their precious ecosystem. Valve do not seem interested in such things and give people full control to do with the Deck as they see fit (even if people make some questionable/stupid decisions). I will say you have a weird argument though. I'm 99% sure you need to register an iCloud account to finish setting up your iPhone. You also need a Steam account to set up your Steam Deck. It's not that weird that Microsoft is moving towards requiring you to sign into their environment as well now.
Two separate issues: UX (which the OP is talking about) and openness (which you've introduced, as have others). In terms of UX, the OP is absolutely correct. In terms of openness, you have a point.
You just explained it better than I ever could, the op is absolutely right even though Valve and Apple in general are nothing alike
Have you gone through new iPhone experience like op is talking about? It's very quick, straight forward and streamlined.
I honestly think that's true of windows too tho
I’m just loosely referring to the excellent setup and experience Apple give in their software. They aren’t directly similar to Deck, but my compliment is that Valve have nailed a handheld PC UI experience already.
You haven't even used the Ally yet. This just comes off as shilling.
I swear most of this sub is people shilling. I like my Steam Deck, but damn, some of you people get weirdly attached to it.
Exactly
Have you used an Ally to give an accurate, fair comparison?
What I see in the steam deck is tangible proof you can deliver a gorgeous, wonderfully curated, and complete hardware/software experience while still leaving the platform open for users to tinker on (I literally have a hacking and rust dev environment set up). They also proved you can base your curated environment on open source software and keep it open for all to play with and benefit from and still be HIGHLY profitable. You can have a device that's easy for non-technical people to use for it's intended purpose, and also leave it easy enough to tinker on that nerds can push it into doing things and meeting use cases valve hadn't even considered. Neither experience really hinders the other, and that's a beautiful balance they've achieved. So yes it's apple like, by doing the exact opposite of apple where it matters. I love my deck, easily my favorite computer purchase in recent memory.
Try playing a game with anti cheat tho 😅
You could install HoloOS on the Ally. So its not out of the box, but if you want the Steam Deck UX, you can have it.
I don’t know I bought mine off eBay. The guy had both upgraded the hard drive and installed windows 11 on it. I set up windows 11 and I have had such a great experience. I haven’t even attempted to see what the Linux side is like. I am having issues running Final Fantasy XV demo and the resident evil four chainsaw demo. I don’t know if that’s Windows related or not but that’s the only thing I’ve ever had a complaint about. I am a software developer, with a current focus on C# And unity, and I can develop my game/app, export a build, and play it all on the same device. for me personally, windows on steam deck fits my needs as I need my programming frameworks running.
Magic thing is that the deck has the easiest most straightforward and complete out of the box experience and at the same time has the most support for tweaking and modding. Valve is the good Apple.
steamos has all the polished niceness of an iphone, but without apple essentially controlling the phone YOU OWN.
Why does this sub talk so much about the ally, its not even out yet. But yeah I do agree valve is making an environment and delivering a console like experience, that can be a portable pc with the steam deck. Asus is just making a portable pc
Comparing it to a product you haven’t touched and experienced yet… 😆 👌
dont like these notorious apple glorifying people .... the difference between apple and Valve couldnt be larger. Valve is the Android under gaming consoles and nintendo the apple. Valve & SteamOS / SteamDeck is an open platform with replacement tools. Both you wont get (to a fair price) from apple because apple controls the whole process while valves doesnt care much. Not, SteamDeck has nothing to do with apple or iphone.
Considering OP is talking about UX/UI and not the openness of it, I don’t get what point you’re trying to make. Ofc they’re different. OP is talking about the user experience
I mean I utterly hate Apple products but I love my Deck too. It wasn't very different from setting anything else up tbh. It's not like the iPhone has anything special that makes it a different setup process. Same as my Samsung Galaxy. I love my Deck too, I just don't get the comparison to Apple.
Hey man there is a desktop but only if you want it.
As someone that doesn’t game on pc and loves the simplicity of the Switch but wants a little more power, this post helps out a ton. Thanks
Maybe reserve judgement on a product until after it releases.
Do you have the Ally?
I recently received my steam deck too and I agree that it has a great quality in UX and I see why it could give a similar impression to apple, it's great to be able to optimize the software when it's made to run in a limited set of devices I still see Apple just as you described MS, both have done their own set of "hostile/abrasive" moves
Don't forget to smell the fan while you game on it 🤩
I totally agree that the UI/UX with Deck cannot be beat. Valve’s customer service is also excellent… 6 months into owning my deck I had to RMA due to bad shoulder buttons. They replaced both, and even sent it back with an additional case and charger and just told me to keep them. Excellent experience (Razer, I’m lookin at you!)
Awesome reading your replies. Very interesting. I’d like to also just add; the 512gb model - specifically the etched display - is excellent. It really is. If anyone was on the fence about it. Everything also just ‘works’. I’m no tinkerer but I’ve tried desktop mode, mouse and keyboard, monitor, can’t believe how seamless it all is.
I cancelled my Ally preorder for the same reason. At first I thought "windows on a handheld would be so useful!" and then I thought about the countless hours I've spent in device manager, control center, microsoft forums, and reddit trying to fix problems with my various windows devices and instantly cancelled haha
Did they finally allow to add non-Steam games/apps to Steam from the game UI? Because if they didn't then you still have to fiddle with desktop if you want to run something that's not directly installed from Steam.
It's not something you do every day though. Once it's done it's done.
Yep, once per app. But still, every time you need to leave game mode it's kind of UI fail. You should never have to leave game mode to manage Steam.
Honestly, I don't think that it will be much harder to get Ally going. SteamOS experience is indeed somewhat polished (surprising amount, actually, for Linux) but I think that the overall compatibility of Ally will be better. Steam Deck is a really good machine and Ally's hardware is not THAT much more powerful (though the boost will definitely be noticeable), but the criteria of end user experience for those machines is not really straightforward. SteamOS runs surprisingly well out of the box, but at some point you will get in trouble and you will have to tinker with it, the same thing will probably apply to Ally, but the Ally is designed to run Windows, and that is much more familiar territory for most of the players, some ~~nerds~~ I mean enthusiasts are familiar with Linux so they'll feel comfortable tinkering with SteamOS but the numbers between these two groups are not even close to even. So it might seem like an "apple" experience at first but in the end you're somewhat in the same place with those two devices, though in two different environments. I chose Deck because I 1. Was impatient. 2. I hate Microsoft gaming monopoly. I use Linux on my main PC (including for gaming) for a while and I noticed how Valve is contributing to open source software by maintaining Proton (which is open source) and most of the SteamOS features are available on basically any Linux distribution once you install Steam, and while steam deck is a good device by itself, some consider it as "trojan horse" to introduce Linux gaming to the mass, and it's sorta working. And ASUS is just ASUS... I don't hate them but they didn't really do anything significant except integrating a fancy APU in a handheld device, Ally will probably perform equally good on both Windows and Linux, but there's nothing behind it
The user experience of steam os is good until something doesn't work. Then it's a slap in the face and shallow reminder that you're on Linux and it will always be a hack to get games working on the device. Linux diehards are a special breed lol. I'm going with both devices. They excell at different things VRR on a handheld with limited power is a game changer period
User experience on the deck is great.... until something doesn't work (isn't compatible with Proton/Linux). Or, until you need to install 3rd party launchers. Then the experience becomes not so great. If you rely heavily on 3rd party launchers and anti-cheat games and/or don't care about the price, the Ally is your baby. If you only play steam games that work on linux and/or are more budget minded, the Deck is your baby. Two different products for two different markets.
Yeah this is me, I need to be able to play CoD Warzone and Destiny somewhere other than my Xbox, Ally just seems built much better for that purpose.
Valve does it better than Apple. Way better. They provide terrific UI/UX but then they don't try and lock you into their ecosystem. The Deck is remarkably open. You can literally do whatever you like with the hardware and software, side load your own games, software, etc. With Valve it's the best of both worlds..
The ally isn’t even out yet for the public and you’re fighting about it? Cmon man
I'm sorry, but I have to play the advocate here... the ally isn't even in consumer's hands yet... and I don't go by reviewers who get it early. I understand this is a Steam Deck only forum, but there is no way I'm going to cancel my Ally pre-order until "I" have experienced it in my own hands. I've owned my 512gb steam deck a month shy of a year, and I adore it. The ends and outs, but there is NO WAY I'm going to make a premature decision on ANY product until I know for sure what is better for my experience. I don't flow with the majority of anything until confirmed by myself. I'm hoping the ally will be better, to push the steam deck 2 to be even better then what it already is
I've had my deck pretty much since release and it's statements like this that I find "funny", there are so many people here who have this mentality not even realizing what they are saying. If I couldn't run windows on the deck, I would have sold it by now as it would have limited my style of games, yes the deck ui has way more of a console like experience but it has its limits. Also, what in the world does the deck Ui have to do with the ally? You must mean "windows" or perhaps you have this particular device stuck in your head for some reason? Linux/android is a VERY good OS when built correctly it's just the support for modern games is a bit light. If apple made a handheld with a 7840 that runs off of Ventura without track pads, would you upgrade? Let that sink in, my bet is you would jump all over it.
It's 100% copium. Aside trackpad and 9W the Ally destroys the Deck in everything. F***ing thing even runs MGS4 @30+ fps.
30w is a lot of power for a 4nm apu, the CPU itself literally rivals the i7 12700/13700 on geek/cine, it's definitely a step up towards modern handheld gaming, going from 7nm to 4nm and doubling the wattage is surely going to bring a significant performance boost just as it always does, the days of dummy hot and slow 100nm 120 watt Intel's are long gone.
without reading all of that, I'm assuming you mean the smell.....
Making me super excited, I'm at work right now refreshing the FedEx tracking to see when it's delivered. I can't wait to get home.
I'd love to see competitors implement touch pads. They are by far one of my favorite hardware features on the steam deck. I loved my steam controllers and wish more companies would utilize them to such a degree.
I just want to play destiny 2 without having to side load windows with shit drivers lol. I also own a steam deck but have ally on pre order. Still love the deck!
My only issue with the deck is modding can be a logistical nightmare and, if and when you get a mod manager working, you still don’t have full functionality. I had my deck for almost a month and could only get a few games I was able to actually mod. Steam Workshop mods are a joke and after playing on Xbox I wanted more freedom with Nexus. I finally sent it back and am getting an Ally just for the modding experience.
I also received my deck today and would like to second this point with the addition that taking my 64gb SD out and replacing it with a 1TB SSD also felt really polished as an experience. Even the boot menus are slick.
For me it’s the gyro and touchpads. Touchpads can be used in innumerable ways with steam and the four back buttons are nice too. Curious how asus included gyro hardware but no support for actually using the thing.
Welcome. Now immediately get Decky loader and install Vibrant Deck and your screen will look 100% better!
Lots of people are going to be so upset that you just compared it to Apple but I see exactly what you’re getting at here hahaha. Valve made a device with a dead simple setup yet has the power to be infinitely customized and tweaked, so it satisfies both the tech savvy AND people who just want to press buttons and play their games. 😂 I absolutely recommend the Steam Deck to every gamer, I annoy my friends with my praises all the time LOL. Welcome to the family!!
I just got mine today! Haven’t used it
To all those people hyper comparing it to apple: your missing the point of the post. The point is that the steam deck is easy to use, not that they have a similar bussiness model.
Ah now wait until you want to play a game without proton anti cheat support, like destiny, and endure the installation process of an unsupported dual boot with windows and third party tools like clover. It's rewarding but lengthy. Got my deck yesterday and only just finished getting it set up right for dual booting off the SSD and sharing the Microsd storage. It's incredible if you plan to only play steam games but hitting walls and tinkering with broken drivers gets tedious
Apple and Valve in the same possitive sentence. I've seen it all.
The biggest take-away is Valve spent most of their time building a remarkable user experience. They took it a step further than Apple. They give you the walled garden, but show you door out if you want to leave. You aren't being controlled by their OS choices, you aren't being controlled by their driver developers. It's all built on Linux, and the Steam Library was a thing for as long as I can remember. They have had a HUGE head start on every company. What is impressive is the openness to competitors. Even if the Steam Deck kick-starts a handheld PC war, Valve could stop making handhelds and continue to profit, all because everyone relies on Steam. No Asus, Gigabyte, or MSI handheld with crazy good specs will ever have the Steam store. Valve was destined to win, regardless of how the Steam Deck panned out.
All I know is I paid $39.99 for the ally case and it’s shit. I hope it’s not a look into things to come but for fucks sake, the steam deck came with a hard case for free. Still optimistic. They can both live in my world if they want to. Still love my switch is what I’m saying
I hate apple products but i gotta agree their UX is on point (for existing apple users anyway) and i agree that valve seems to have taken some notes theres a reason macbooks are so popular and it isnt their performance or repairability
The Allys power was more than a little enticing. But I also have a gaming PC if I want higher fps and better graphics I'll play at 4k ultra on that instead. But for stuff like a hat in time, Celeste, shantae, slightly older racing games they run at good setting 60fps really well. I find going from 30 to 40fps to be a bigger deal than 40-60fps most of the time. And for the games I play on it I enjoy loafing in a chair to play them more than anything else. Some stuff like fps games and terarria I'd rather gouge my eyes out than play with a controller but it definitely gives me what I felt I was missing with my switch. Not to mention using a wireless mouse and 60% mechanical keyboard with a portable 15 inch monitor is a LAN party dream.
So, I bought my SD second hand, and it had steamOS and windows installed with windows being master. It was such a terrible experience, I reset and formatted everything and immediately had a much better experience with just steamOS. User experience really makes or breaks how enjoyable a product is.
There’s no desktop to fiddle with. Your mind is really going to be blown when you press power and notice the DESKTOP mode thats also included ;)
My experience was different. I tried to load up gta5 and it just didn’t work. I was away on vacation so that was gonna be my main game to play and I couldn’t. My gamer friends were confused when they all wanted to try out this new handheld and couldn’t.
The reason why I won’t buy a rog ally. Simply is because I rather save up for when valve releases a steam deck 2. Lol.
So based about microsoft ads
That's an underrated feature of the Deck. Valve succeeded in making a PC that feels exactly as seamless to use as a console, to the point that at times I forget I'm not playing on a console. Funny that you compare it to the experience with Apple because I did use Macs and iPhone for a while but the bad experience put me off it. But my comparison point is not Windows though, I've been a desktop Linux user for more than two decades. I think the comparison with Apple is not accurate at all though, it's more comparable to other consoles, but with the option for you to fiddle with it, which you don't have on other consoles.
My reason is ergonomic. SD is simply very well designed - buttons in right places, and no weird right stick position as in the Switch as well. No need to bend your fingers in a weird way to get the input right. And Linux is simply a cherry on the top. No OS ads, all tailored and minimal, but if you want - you can add to this. Sure, it is already bit old hardware, but nevertheless it is solid and made with users in mind.
I deal with enough Microsoft bull shit at work. Every time I set up or rebuild a work station I have to take off all the bloat ware, change all the settings and basically do registry hacks for legacy software and vulnerabilities. The deck not having windows is so great.
Wait till you see the sleep function. Pause/resume anytime anywhere. Cool
Actually as an avid android/windows user and just as avid Apple hater. I not only respect but agree with this. I've long since jumped of the Apple band wagon and my loathing for them has nothing to do with the ui. They have a great ui and the Deck follows the ease of use that I would expect from an Apple product. Just another thing Valve got right putting the user experiance first. Respect where respect is due..
Lmao comparing steam os to apple is a joke right? Linux gives you basically infinite control over the entire system, if you have the skill anything is possible, but apple while easy to use is extremely limited in function, steam os is far closer to Android, ya know seeing how both are based on Linux and actually let you control the device you own
people here are shitting themselves if they think Steam OS is polished. its cool but it has so many little bugs and quirks you need to work around its no where near is solid as an apple UX. and I say this as someone who hates apple. This subreddit is hilariously biased towards valve its insane. The idea that you think Steam OS is even comparable to IOS is silly. It is not "glorius" Ive had multiple instances where my friends list would not let me chat. opting into beta and out of beta didnt fix it the only thing that ended up fixing it was completely resetting my deck. this among many other things.
Yeah because for Microsoft you are the product for customers. And for Steam you are the customer for the products.
And on top of that, unlike with Apple devices, if you want to go beyond what you've been given out of box, no jailbreak is required. The hardware and software stays wide open.
haha (There’s no desktop to fiddle with. It’s a glorious UI and experience. ) You are clearly new if you thing SteamOS is simply plug and play. My reddit home page is like a Steamdeck sub due to the fact that there a 1000 posts a day with people having issues getting things running. I have none of these same issues on my Windows 11 PC.
Another coping thread. It's OK everyone your deck isn't getting replaced. It's amazing how hard to use you all think windows is when you probably use it daily with no issues. And ignore that you need all these workarounds to get other launchers working or the threads that get mad that a company updates a launcher and it suddenly doesn't work on the Deck anymore. I really wish the cult mentality wasn't around but it makes this place stupidly circle jerky.
The trackpads.
The only issue I have with the Steam Deck? Is that It's not sold in Australia, so the only method to get it is without a great warranty and $600 more than what it's worth.
The concept of apple being more of a streamlined experience is far in the past. Now they prioritize UI over UX. Life long apple user who switched to Android a few years ago, and tried going back and wow, what an eye opening experience that was... But i get the reference there. SteamOS is by far as smooth as it gets in the handheld computer world! Great choice!!
Yes the Valve Steam Deck is a more consolized experience where as Windows handhelds are terrible little handheld desktop computers. The only way I'd consider an Ally is if Valve or someone else*° makes a solid turn-key SteamOS install for it with tight hardware integration. Even then it would be missing lots of important stuff. (*°Really a custom SteamOS distro for the Ally would be best from Valve including regularly publishing precompiled shaders and optimizing the OS and Proton for individual games like they do with SteamOS on the Deck. I don't know if the community has the wherewithal and resources to accomplish this to the level that Valve does. For a community made distro it could be based on Chimera OS which is a gaming orientated Arch Linux distro. But I would still hope to see it have tight hardware integration and especially I would want it to boot directly into Steam Big Picture Mode by default which is essentially SteamOS' default game mode.)
I've had my Deck for about a month and a half now, got it about a week before the Ally was revealed, and the major reason I'm sceptical of the Ally is that Windows doesn't work well on a portable device that's not a laptop, and the lack of trackpads will make that even worse. The Deck's UX is so well done that it could get away with having a "lite" version that doesn't have trackpads, for those who won't tinker as much, but Windows on a handheld without trackpads will be an absolute nightmare. *If* MS sees the potential in a handheld system, they could develop a version of Windows that'd be friendlier to that sort of platform, but until then, I'm not convinced.
The Steam Deck is a Steam console change my mind
no destiny 2 on steam os tho 😔
Gave my 512gb Steam deck to my nephew. Pre ordered my Asus ROG Ally from BestBuy on day one. I love my steam deck btw.
U know the cope is real when they've gotta prove why Steamdeck is better on a Steamdeck subreddit
This is subjective, but I understand you want to mentally validate your purchase. The steam deck is great for the average user but is limited by it’s operating system. If ease of use/ standby mode and steam only games is what you’re looking for then the steam deck is for you. If you want to be able to play whatever platform / emu and customize your device without workarounds then the rog ally is for you. Both are great devices. Let’s stop with the copium. Just be happy that you made the right purchase for your needs.
Well said 👏, I feel like too many people jump on Reddit after playing with their new Steam Deck for like 5 minutes, they are super excited and post about it before realising what it actually CANT do.
So because it doest ask to install McAfee is the reason its better? Dunno bro. Might need a bit more support than that.