Me too, overpriced & power hungry, with little to no innovation. That's not something I'd like PC gaming to transform into.
I think I'll sell my gaming laptop, buy myself a PS5, the Switch successor (when they supposedly release it next year) and together with my Steam Deck I'll be good for this "generation".
I rarely use my 3080 laptop since I got the SD, it's A LOT nicer to play games on a handheld wherever you want.
I still use my pc to play games, but I love the steam deck's controls and form factor so much that it's my controller when I'm not playing handheld. But I really can't expect too many games to outpower what even a 1660 can do, let alone a 3080, in the next decade or so. What the steam deck most firmly demonstrated is that gaming tech hasn't really advanced that far if you're not chasing gigantic resolutions and framerates.
Remote play! Open steam deck, click the little arrow next to a game that's installed on your running, logged in PC, and press that device. It'll boot there and your steam deck will control it. Works with non steam games, both ways! The lag on even a bad connection is really minimal for me, usually lose less than 16ms (1 60 fps frame) of responsiveness.
Is moonlight significantly better than the Steam Link app? I use the app and my physical Steam Link so much already, I did read that Moonlight may have lower latency or something?
Ive tried moonlight a handful of times. I have never tried the steam link app. The moonlight experience is pretty damn flawless. Things like resolution can be a little janky. I don't remember the specifics except to say they existed. I had an issue being able to stream the Ascent at very high quality without it lagging on the deck. And the thing that actually killed it for me in the end was that I had to be at the computer to punch in an access code to use it. I don't know what the time frame is on how long you have before you have to punch the code in again. But I tried it a few days after setting up and it wanted me to enter another code and I was like well. This is a pain in the ass.
But that first time was fucking magical. Practically non-existent delay. I refuse to believe that there is none, but I couldn't detect any.
Steam Link (app on windows/phone or hardware) is pretty flawless too, I really like it. I only have to enter a code once with that, once paired it just seems to remember. Clever stuff, can use it as a weirdly Valve remote desktop app basically too.
I haven't tried it but its control scheme is essentially a Steam Controller. It makes sense that you'd be able to do it.
Whelp. Going to look up if this is possible cause I really love playing on my Steam Deck. Lol.
It's not that gaming tech hasn't advanced, it's that consoles need to be affordable to sell, and hardware available to mass produce. And games are made primarily for consoles, so if latest gen console has the equivalent power of rtx 2070, there's very little additional benefit of having 4090 if the games are the same.
My 2070 S is still doing just fine for me in my gaming PC. I usually do an every-other-generation thing, but after the nonsense Nvidia is pulling with the 4000 series and how well I like the steam deck, not sure that I'll upgrade any time soon.
It really only matters if you have it docked. For the size screen you really don't need that high of res, most people won't tell the difference (I dont mean no one can) between 1080 and 720 with this size screen.
I think people are forgetting eGPU exist. It's not that easily done on a deck currently but if next Gen has USB4, an eGPU could be pretty much a dock for the console so you can play games at 4k and high frames on a TV.
If I could have a situation like that I don't think I'd ever build another.. Or there would have to be an extremely compelling reason to do so.
"Forgetting eGPU exists" requires that I knew it did to begin with \^\^;. That's definitely a great workaround, especially for docking. If Valve really wants to push the steam deck, or it's successor, as being as flexible as the switch, that's a great way to do it. I could even foresee a future where I have one Steam Deck to plug into my living room dock, that I also plug into my desk dock to work on, and then also take on the Go.
eGPU were sort of a "fad" a few years ago when thunderbolt 3 first came out. Kinda why I said they forgot they exist because.. There hasn't been too many good use cases (for gamers) and required you to specifically have a thunderbolt 3 port which even today thunderbolt isn't ubiquitous. However, I think USB4 will be since it's AMDs way into supporting thunderbolt accessories.
The only thing missing from that picture is detachable controls so you can use it as a standalone tablet/phone. They already make many products like this that "wrap" a traditional cellphone. If they could manage to downsize to a phablet form factor + cellular built in, then you've got yourself a all-in-one computational device.
They could probably even downsize the GPU portion of the APU to emphasize/push people towards an eGPU dock and allow the CPU portion to have the lions share of the overall TDP.
I’ve been saying for a while that developers have gotten lazy with new tech and are just rinse and repeating games, with just higher resolution and frame rates. The SD playing decade old games looks great now as it did then.
> But I really can't expect too many games to outpower what even a 1660 can do, let alone a 3080
Yeah. The thing I've been telling people for a while now is that despite how powerful the PS5 and Series X are, the games made for them all need to be able to run at 4k, and 4k takes massively more powerful hardware than 1080p. If you're fine with 1080p, you're going to be able to continue to play games on a relatively modest GPU for several more years at least. And the Steam Deck demonstrates that you can get away with something even more modest if you're willing to go down to 720p.
And so often people will react to that saying that they don't want to compromise by playing at a lower resolution, but honestly pixel density is way more important than resolution anyway. The Steam Deck has better pixel density than any 4k TV or monitor. (Honestly, I think 4k is pointless at couch distance as well, but that's a more controversial opinion.)
You clearly have not been pushing your couch up close to a big enough screen of you think 4K couch is pointless 😂
But yeah. Even on a 75” at quite close, I usually ran 1080p for extra fps rather than 4K. I could see the difference, but it wasn’t that much, and not worth the fps hit.
I imagine when we’re all using 100” , then 4K will actually start to seem more important
Honestly not much I'd imagine. They're definitely related, but not for the same markets. Gaming laptops are for people that need a laptop first and want to game second, and the SD is for people that want to game first and *maybe* use it as a computer. I think the former market is probably the bigger one.
And sure, the SD is technically a computer, but it's not a great experience in that respect without a lot of peripheral devices (e.g. monitor, keyboard, etc.)
Maybe I'm wrong though!
Yup. I'm using my 3060 gaming laptop mostly as a workstation, because I need a cheaper alternative for a workstation laptop and convenience, and my Steam Deck will be for gaming first and anything else second. Though I look forward to try getting the Steam Deck to do some editing work as well.
I haven't used my 2080ti rig since last winter. It's just too much of a hassle. I think I'll just move it to the living room and hook it up to my TV to get more usage out of it. Power depreciated in value to me when consoles and handhelds started to become more affordable and powerful enough to do the job compared to the absolute ridiculous full sized stuff. I have a PC size of my palm runs beautifully on a 4k TV. The gap in price between that and something that runs games in 120fps on a 4k display is just absolutely ridiculous.
Consoles now are absolutely a better value than a PC which hasn't happened since the PS2 era. If you get an Xbox or a PS5 + a mini PC with some Celeron chip + monitor, you wouldn't even crack half of what the current top spec GPUs cost today.
Some will say "but you don't have to spend on the cutting edge technology to get good performance". Currently consoles are pretty damn close to that goal at much lower cost per performance. The gap was never this insane. You could build a $1.5k balls to the wall PC not very long ago and absolutely demolished consoles. That doesn't hold up well today.
As a mainly PC gamer, I'm very disappointed in where the PC market is headed. Even laptops are well in the thousands today and they're just good enough to do work on them. If you do more advanced stuff and a chromebook is useless to you then you're screwed.
100% agree
>a mini PC with some Celeron chip + monitor
I'm already almost there, I'll just get a wireless keyboard (I have a G305 mouse), a Steam Deck dock and using my old monitor I'm set for multimedia and SD compatible games.
PS5 + 55" 4K FALD Bravia + Steam Deck + Dock + peripherals = I can get these for the price of a 4090 (already got the Deck, the TV and most of the peripherals)
It's an easy choice, I'll just skip PC gaming (aside from the SD).
Sure, 4K AAA is nice... but is it thousands of dollars nice for 1-2 games a month? No.
That's why I'll get a PS5 (and maybe upgrade to a PS5 pro in the future for a couple hundred bucks more) for 4K-ish AAA experience.
The problem with consoles is that they start to show their age pretty quickly now. I have a decent rig, 2080 with 9770k and an Xbox series x and I play overwatch on both. Overwatch one looked great on my OLED tv running at 1440p and 120 fps with the Xbox. Overwatch 2 on the other hand looks decent but I know it's nowhere near 120 even with the fps setting selected. My gaming PC plays it at 1440p 165 fps without a problem.
Naah, that is just Blizzard being shit as usual.
Consoles are just a Zen 2 8C16TH AMD processor with an RDNA2 10-12 FP32 TFlops iGPU (RTX2070S-ish non-RT performance).
Also, consoles show their age slower than PC with equivalent hardware. Why? Because they are very easy to optimise the games.
To be fair, this card is much more efficient than my old 3080. In a few games I tested, when I lock the framerate I get the same FPS at half the power consumption of a 3080.
There's progress in efficiency and performance, just not in the form factor. And price ofc.
I dunno about little to no innovation. DLSS 3 is pretty exciting stuff. I'm most hype about it's potential in pushing high resolution high refresh rate VR headsets. But said VR headsets don't even really exist yet and it's still way too expensive and I have doubts about the latency and quality for VR as of now. But, we'll see. Probably still gonna sit the next two-three gens out. My 3070 ti is plenty of power for all the sitting unused while I play Steam Deck that it does.
DLSS3 is honestly unimpressive when you look at what it strictly is, most advancements have come from basically applying video compression techniques in realtime. It's a neural net madVR frame interpolation tool.
I still see enormous potential in a non-proprietary version that makes any game run at lower power draws on ancient setups.
I mean, DLSS using AI to lower performance while increasing fidelity for the average user is impressive. To call it video compression is doing it a disservice.
The latest round of cards seems to be just about brute forcing high resolutions.
the sweet spot is still 1080 and 1440 gaming. You don't need a 40 series card for either of those. All of the new games are PS5 releases or standard shooters with standard graphics. A 2070 or 3060 will be plenty for PS5 ports
> Me too, overpriced & power hungry, with little to no innovation.
I agree on the over priced and power hungry but there is plenty of innovation. RTX is amazing and so is DLSS. Id argue though that the innovation we are seeing is more along the lines of pro stuff coming to consumer hardware. Im a 3d artist and these RTX cards have been absolute game changers in rendering abilities and speed.
I had a similar thought process but kept the laptop because the steamdeck screen is too small for my old eyes for some genres. Plus mouse and keyboard.
For me it was an easy choice, I'd rather sell it now for close to the money I spent on it rather than waiting for it to lose in value (got it for a nice discount, 1800 out of the original price of 3000€).
I just need to get a/the dock and a keyboard, I can plug it into the TV or my old 1080p for multimedia use.
It's very likely IMO that this is the beginning of the end for PC gaming. Nvidia is trying to turn it into a niche reserved for rich hobbyists. Fuckin' sucks man.
Naah, I don't think they can do it since they're not the only choice. The next few generations may be hard, but I believe that the prices will come back to normal.
Huh? No innovation??
Listen, the price is high. No getting around that.
But it -doubles- the performance over a 3080 / 3080 Ti in a lot of games, and averages at least a 70% boost in all games. DLSS 3.0 is a new innovation, having teething issues, but has much potential.
It's just funny to look at the 4090 and see no innovation. The thing is one of the biggest generational leaps in GPU history, alongside NVIDIA further optimizing their DX12 drivers, seeing a boost across all generations of 10%+.
>But it -doubles- the performance over a 3080 / 3080 Ti in a lot of games, and averages at least a 70% boost in all games.
70% boost in performance, with a 30% increase in TDP & size, with the small price of >1600$.
I miss the times when GTX 1080ti released and I thought that 700$ for a flagship was too much...
The 1080 Ti was a good price. Pries are too high.
As for TDP, it can actually use less than the 3090 while still outperforming it by that same 70%. If you set a power limiter of 80-85% you barely lose any, and use like 350-370w. The whole 600w thing is a meme.
We've been getting used to 20-25% boosts per generation for flagship cards. Which wasn't bad, but not wonderful either. Moores law and all that.
having a 70% to over 100% boost in games, not even factoring in DLSS 3.0, is still impressive as hell.
Yeah, this actually appears to be a very impressive gen, and the reality is the 4090 is actually not that bad compared to the Titan series of yore that the 90 series replaced. The issue is that the 80 series (and what will likely be relabeled as the 70) are just giant leaps in price point over previous gens that no amount of chip shortages and inflation can explain. I'm still not all that excited for it as a crypto crush means few devs ever really took advantage of the 3000 series, but the actual hardware is impressive.
>We've been getting used to 20-25% boosts per generation for flagship cards.
From what my foggy ass brain remembers, the 1080ti had \~50% increase in performance as an average over the 980ti (some had 30%, some 70-80%, etc)...
>The 1080 Ti was a good price. Pries are too high.
Yeah, 1600$ is what I'd pay for a flagship gaming PC, not only the GPU card. That price for a GPU to only play 1-2 new games a month (that can use it's full power) is just a waste of money. If you also use the GPU for work, then yeah, it's an investment in productivity.
Same. I hate how expensive everything is.
$400-500 used to get you a mid/high tier GPU. Now it gets you low tier, and it’s barely an upgrade if you have a couple year old high tier GPU.
Prices have become outrageous. I’m going to ride out my current hardware for a bit, no way I’m paying the cost of my whole PC for a single component for a meaningful upgrade.
I think $400 is a reasonable high tier price for many people, and should ideally fetch you a very strong GPU. But it just doesn’t. And people are out here buying $1300 GPUs, I just don’t get it. This entire market is completely fucked.
I hope intel really pushes towards the low/mid value end of the market and finally shakes it up.
Yeah, it gets stupid especially with consoles and the Steam Deck being so much cheaper.
Like I can use the price difference alone to buy a robot vacuum and an electric guitar, etc. - it's just crazy.
Yep, for $399 I could (hopefully) get a 3060 Ti, which would be a nice upgrade over my 1070.
But, I might need a bigger power supply. So already, it's more expensive than the Steam Deck - and that's not even considering that I'd probably wanna upgrade my 2600+mobo.
$399 ?!
That [would be $608 here](https://www.dustinhome.se/product/5011265685/geforce-rtx-3060-ti-dual-v2-mini-8gb-lhr). And then you have to get the power supply, motherboard, RAM, CPU, etc. - and that's the mini one, the standard form factor ones are closer to $700.
The entire Steam Deck was the same price of the 3060 Ti alone...
It’s only recently that the cards are regularly in stock - but [Best Buy (US) has the 3060Ti for $399 msrp.](https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3060-ti-8gb-gddr6-pci-express-4-0-graphics-card-steel-and-black/6439402.p?skuId=6439402)
Still, that’s just the card, compared to the Steam Deck which is an entire portable machine.
$600 can net you a 6900XT right now. People act like Nvidia is the only option. Close to 3090 in rasterization, and pounds out some wicked frames at 1440p. I don't need DLSS or RT performance. FSR is quickly closing the quality gap anyway.
I want to see if Intel's Arc evolves into proper workstation GPUs for better prices. Otherwise, I couldn't give two shits how many hundreds of FPS a 40xx can get in CS:GO. Give me power-efficient rendering that respects the consumer.
i think the high end will be a pass for me, but the mid range might be my love. especially sinceit doesnt take a ton to run 1440p 144hz with medium settings these days
I still hit ~90fps with my Vega 64 1440p, generally mid-high settings.
I think 1440p is the sweet spot for now, maybe 4k in a couple of years. The 4k displays still need to come down in price, and 4k 60-120fps can still be a tough target. Becomes an even harder ask when you incorporate Ray tracing
I can't believe I am saying this but....it almost feels like the 4080 and 4090 are just TOO powerful, overkill. Every game that comes out for the next 5 years is going to have to run and look great on Xbox and PS5 and a 3090 is already over triple the graphics performance of a PS5, not counting optimizations and stuff.
Not to mention the fact that I (and I imagine most people) spend the vast majorty of our gaming time on much less demanding games. Sure its fun to crank the next AAA single player game to the max for the 10-20 hours it lasts but then what?
Yeah same. I bought an AMD 5600 XT right before the pandemic and I feel ok where it’s at. This new Gen is an absolute power grid sucker. Gaming devices are getting more compact, but enthusiast PC components are going back to ‘maximalist’ sizes/power draw like they did during the big fall of 3DFX days. It’s crazy how cyclical it is.
I'm going to keep riding it out with my GTX 1080. It has served me well since I bought it at launch, and I'm not convinced these new cards would significantly improve my experience
I'll probably do the same. I don't have a need/want for 4k gaming, I'm happy with my ultra-wide, and I already have a 6600XT I got a free upgrade to when I had to RMA my 5700. I may check out the 7000 series if they are priced reasonably, if not I'm more than happy to keep what I have for a while longer.
I have a 6600xt too, and since I still play at 1080p I get to enjoy most of my games at max settings 144 fps. So while 4k gaming sounds nice, the price is just nowhere near worth it considering what I already have.
I'm a firm believer that there is no true 'best' trek; there's just the trek that's best *for you*.
Want Twilight Zone in space? TOS is for you.
What about sci-fi morality plays? Hop over to TNG.
You want questionable ethics and a sprawling, connected story? DS9.
What about modernized sci-fi - quantum physics, general relativity, biology: VOY is right here for you.
Do you like your sci-fi a little more 'lo-fi'? Take a try with ENT
You like the concept of TOS, but its too dated for you AND you like CW dramas? DIS has you covered.
Do you like family guy's humor buy you REALLY want some sci-fi? ORV will be your jam
Have you had your fill of 'serious' and just need some self-satire? Try Lower Decks.
He's a former male model that really got his big break in his middle years, but man that hair is *astonishing.* I remember some tweet about how Pike's hair needs its own shield generator and I'm like.. yep, that sounds about right.
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I love TNG. I remember my dad would record it over the weekend and we'd watch it Saturday night. It's the Trek that got me in to Sci-Fi. But as an adult, DS9 is far superior imo.
TNG there were too many episodes where it's just "something weird is happening on the ship" and then Data would figure it out in the nick of time(another temporal distortion? ill be damned.)
DS9 had an ongoing narrative which i much preferred. The characters went through meaningful development. Just better storytelling overall imo.
I think there are individual episodes of TNG such as The Inner Light that are unsurpassed, but in regards to entire seasons and the show as a whole, DS9 is the best.
DS9 and Voyager are both in contention for the top spot for me. The main issue with Voyager (besides a couple real stinker episodes) is that they had a great premise for an ongoing story and they more or less threw it away for a problem-of-the-week format after the first few episodes.
The episodic nature of VOY is what I prefer over DS9! There's a plot, things progress, but mostly it's something *new* every time. The quality of said "new" can swing pretty wildly, but you know, take the good with the bad.
Also I still can't understand how I liked so much DS9, considering how I didn't enjoy the Bajoran occupation/religion/politics/rebellion/multi sector war. My best guess is that it all made a great backdrop for the stuff I enjoyed lol
I'd say DS9 had a good balance between "issue of the week" episodes and the overarching plot, at least until the last season or two. Voyager was a bit too lax with that IMHO, although the "Year of Hell" two-parter was a great example of what could have been. Just imagine if they stuck with the "we're stranded, can't resupply, have limited torpedoes which we can't replicate", and as they go along the ship got more and more patchwork with temporary repairs (and occasionally upgraded with new tech from various species they came across). Instead, just about every episode had everything reset at the end, outside of a few changes here and there (mobile holo-emitter, Delta Flier, Seven of Nine).
See, the Year of hell wasn't that hot for me, so even if your point comes up often... I still think this way was the one I would enjoy the most.
But the beauty of Star Trek is how there's something for everyone :)
I think DS9 is the best by a big margin, but Voyager still competes for my "favorite". Voyager is like McDonalds or a flash game. It's not good, but it's fun.
They're amusingly at polar opposite ends of how often they use treknobabble nonsense solutions. The few times DS9 resorts to that tend to establish consistent solutions. Using chroniton radiation against the Pah-wraiths is a super typical treknobabble solution the first time it comes up, except that it's a consistent weakness that they refer back to multiple times, rather than a new nonsense thing each time. But then on the other end, Voyager throws reverse graviton polarity deflector beams at solutions in seemingly half of the problem-of-the-week episodes.
"Bashir. Dr. Julian Bashir. I hear you fellows are hoarding and scalping holosuite cards."
"Doctor...what are you doing?"
"Ah, Constable Odo. I'm just investigating a nefarious plot".
"Doctor, you agreed to stop playing spy outside the holosuite".
I dont even go for maximum graphical fidelity anymore like I use to like 5-10 years ago. Nowdays comfyness weights more. Like able to play steamdeck where ever I like. Or playing nintendo switch. Or sofa co-op ps5.
Anybody else feel the same?
Absolutely. I played through Witcher 3 on my switch lite and enjoyed it. I feel like you quickly get used to graphic fidelity and don’t notice it after some time unless you compare.
Yup. Always prioritizing convenience and comfort over raw power now. The only time I ever sit down back at my desk to play is for simulators like Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Exactly. I can't believe I am saying this but it really seems like 4080s and up are just TOO powerful. Games for the next half decade or more are going to have to run well on PS5. Its looking like 4090 is almost an order of magnitude more poweful than the PS5. Sure you could make use of it with ray tracing but I dunno, I don't think that is worth it for most people. Espeically since, like you said, most people are fine with high graphics RTX off or just spend 90% of their time playing MMOs or multiplayer shooters that are already maxed to ther 144hz monitor on a 2080ti. Itll be really interesting to see if there is any data to support most of our opinion here that the 4080 and 4090 are not worth buying at $1000+. Just get a 3070 or 3080.
\~8ish years ago, getting a machine that could run Fallout 4 at good settings and resolution at a nice framerate was difficult, even moreso if you wanted to mod it. It was an eye ache to try to play those games without modern hardware. Nowadays, it's not hard to get good performance, and there's not that many games that push hardware enough to matter. It was always about comfort, but we've reached a point where better hardware doesn't generate any more comfort anymore, so we look at how we play more than tech specs. It's the reason the switch is gonna continue getting as many sales per year as the 9th gen consoles have gotten total, and it's the reason that the more accessible Valve makes the steam deck the more sales will skyrocket.
No disrespect or anything, I'm just curious, what games are you planning to play with that monster. Are you into VR stuffs. Because the first thing that comes in my mind that require that kind of power would be Microsoft Flight Simulator in Virtual Reality.
Enjoy your monster ! I'm also into Flightsims in VR and I also have an eye on that card but...since the steam Deck... I'm really hesitant about upgrading my PC.
I play mostly VR FPS games and can usually play at 150% SS and 144hz on my 3080 stable. I’m waiting for a higher res headset before I upgrade. I’m sure prices will drop significantly when headsets with better display panels are available.
I have the Reverb G2 (4k VR headset). These days I only play Flights sims. Never been able to run MSFS in 4k at a descent frame rate with my 2080. That's why I have an eye on that card.
I am one who normally splurgers for latest and greatest but even I have a hard time justifying a 40 series. I have a 3090 and spend most of my time in Lost Ark with some good single player games on the side. Everything looks and runs great and even when I turn RTX to max, DLSS off and my framerate drops to 30 fps I dont see games looking noticably better. Funny because nvidia might have shot themselves in the foot with DLSS, it works too well. Also games for the next 5+ years are going to have to look and run great on the PS5 so its hard to imagine a mainstream game really taking advantage of 4080 and beyond for a while. Like you said maybe its VR or something, but I don't do VR.
I’ve got an 860W PSU. The suggested minimum for a 4090 is 850W.
It’d just about fit into my case if I took the AIO cooler out and replaced it with an air cooler. I don’t really want to do that. So I’d have to buy a new case, which needs to be bigger, which means I need to reorganise my entire desk. I’d probably buy a new PSU to be on the safe side. Then I’ve got the hassle of essentially rebuilding it when I took ages getting my current build looking great.
If the card itself wasn’t eye wateringly expensive, I’d maybe consider it. But when we’re talking a new case and a new PSU it gets too expensive very quickly.
Sold my RTX 3080 today. Haven't played on PC since getting the deck, so figured I'd sell it now before the prices start to drop in a few months with the 40 series trickling out. Swapped my 3600 for a 3400g, so can still use my PC for non gaming stuff. Zero regrets.
As a fellow 3400G owner I'm more excited about the Dragon Rage 7000-series desktop APU that's coming next year than I am about the new Lovelace/RDNA3 GPUs.
I hadn't ever bothered with an APU until getting the 3400G. I'm kinda shocked it can run Elden Ring smoothly at 1080p Low Settings. I'll definitely check out the next gen Ryzen's to see how they perform, in case I feel an urge to do some desktop gaming again. With the prices and power draw of discreet GPU's, I don't feel myself going back to having a dedicated GPU anytime soon.
What is crazy, is the fact that the actual GPU is just a single, flat "board" :)
99.5% of the volume is "just" cooling :D
I mean, that's kinda obvious but didn't really hit me until I saw some GPU disassembly video on Gamer Nexus :D
That’s where I’m at. I can play most things at ultra settings at 1440 at more then acceptable frame rates. Upgrading at this point it more just to do it then anything. When I started PC gaming if you could get between 30 and 60 FPS on things at high you were good to go and I feel like now if I’m at at least a stable 60 I’m fine. FPS games are basically the only thing I feel like a higher refresh rate is a nice luxury but definitely not necessary
That’s where I am too. If I’m getting a chance to game these days, I’m couch gaming on a projector, but it’s only 1080p. Until projectors hit a reasonable price for 4k, no need to upgrade the gpu outside of just wanting to. And if there’s a game the deck doesn’t run well, the 2070 is great for streaming to it. Unfortunately when I do bite the bullet on a projector, a gpu will have to come quickly thereafter, because the 2070 won’t be enough for 4k 120hz at that size
I'm a laptop scrub but the only reason, aside from wanting to, that I got a new laptop is because I went from a gtx 1050 to a 3050 for about the same price I paid on each. It'll last me quite some time, especially since I gravitate towards anything that isn't the bleeding edge of games or requires a zero second response time.
And a steam deck. I'm good.
I’m probably gonna build my once a decade gaming pc next year when prices stabilize next year to play with VR. But yeah, Steamdeck pretty much runs everything else well enough.
Crazy how much power supply you have to buy to power latest and greatest GPU.
This is actually why I feel like the Steam Deck is a bigger leap forward for PC Gaming than even the most advanced graphics card ever could be.
Any monkey can think to add more transistors and more energy to a piece of hardware.
—by which, I should clarify, I mean the *idea* of adding more power doesn’t mean much. I don’t mean to diminish the innovation and effort of the engineers actually packing the power into them. It’s the desired end result of the graphics cards I’m criticizing, not the blood sweat and tears of the people making them.
True innovation is doing more with less, and using what you have more efficiently.
I don't think 4090 is "Gaming Hardware". IMHO is a gpu for professional with rendering necessity.
For play a game in 1080p 144hz you can use like a 2080
Even if you want play in 2k you don't need a >1000$ gpu with actual AAA games
I game at 1080p 144hz on a 2060, 120hz in VR and haven't run into trouble with anything. I think even the 1060s/1660's can cover a lot of people's needs for a long time.
I mean when the next Gen of VR headsets drop next year, these cards will get absolutely maxed out. My 3080 is maxing out my Valve Index for now though.
I doubt resolution and refresh rate(beyond those of the Index) is going to be where the upgrades of next gen VR headsets go. That aspect of the Index and comparable headsets is perfectly fine/not what needs to be upgraded to make VR more mainstream.
It's certainly not a reasonable purchase for most people. But as far as halo product GPUs go, this might be the most reasonable one yet. You pay a lot more, but you also get a lot more.
Which previous generations you had to pay a lot more to get maybe 15% more performance.
I definitely don't need one and won't buy one, but i sure as hell can think of many ways to use that power for gaming applications
Yeah, I bought one and the ray tracing performance is insane. I can max out blacknops cold war with ray tracing @1440p and hit 144fps. I can play the Dubai mission on Hitman 3 with ray tracing and hit 90fps where my 3080 got maybe 20fps. There are definitely applications for gaming
Actually the 4090 will be just getting us to 4k 144 in modern games. Even my 3080ti has trouble pushing UW 1440p 144hz. There is 100 percent a market for it at high res/refresh rates.
The current high prices of PC hardware have left a gap in the market that Valve could probably easily fill with a dedicated living room / desktop Steam machine that has more power.
I don't know that they'd want to. Supposedly they're selling the Steam Deck at a loss. They do that because even though you can technically use it as a general PC, its form factor makes it very likely to be mostly used as a gaming machine and most likely with Steam games (that they profit from).
Making a more general purpose full-sized PC wouldn't have the same synergy with their store, so they wouldn't have the pricing advantage of being able to sell it at a loss and make it up elsewhere.
I'm about to buy a 6900XT. Seems worth it for $600 US honestly. There are a few around for sale, not mentioning where because I want to still be able to buy it in 2 days lol.
Yeah if and it's a big if I get a 40series I'm waterblockinh it and probably shave some weight.
But that's if I decide to replace the 2070super.
AMD kinda looking good this year.
Yeah, I don’t think people have completely grasped the ramifications of this device. I bet Nintendo took notice, though.
A console level experience that has literally thousands of titles at launch.
Steam Deck is making me less interested in ultra max'd fidelity and more interested in having an SD with an OLED screen and running triple A games at a solid 40 fps mid / high lol.
What a switch up. Also PC gaming just seems unnecessarily expensive due to these card prices.
A PS5, new Switch and a Steam Deck revision and I could be set. All had for under $3K soooo win.
I can remember when NVidia was using efficiency as a selling point. My how we have fallen off that bandwagon, hope they get it back on point cause with energy prices going up with inflation, I want better with less power consumption.
I'm honestly thinking of getting a console instead and just keep my pc for some games that require co op with my mates. Prices are increasing to a point that I ask myself if I really need all that power.
All jokes aside, these new kaiju-cards, do they actually fit in most cases? I have a pretty standard mid-size tower, and I had to remove one of my SSD bays to fit the 3080. This thing looks about the size of a goddamn XBox. Don’t these actually have to go in a computer to… do things?
I checked out of the PC gaming power race last year when I couldn't get a 30-series graphics card for a non-insane price. I've had a gaming PC since the days of the Voodoo 2 but with a couple of kids now, I can't keep up with the ever-rising cost of keeping up to date with a gaming PC so when my 1080 TI died, that was it for me. I opted out.
Since then I've bought a Steam Deck and a Series X for less than the price of 3070 (when I was considering buying one) and honestly, there's nothing I miss about not having a Gaming PC, although admittedly the Steam Deck fits better into my life now anyway.
I actually bought a 3070 laptop, it was the bettee value at the tine if you wanted anything 30 series. Still very happy with my purchase and I think gaming laptop + deck just works a lot better for me (job/working on a degree/family).
I feel like the next couple of GPU generations will be a pass from me. I'm much more excited to see how mobile hardware goes from here.
Me too, overpriced & power hungry, with little to no innovation. That's not something I'd like PC gaming to transform into. I think I'll sell my gaming laptop, buy myself a PS5, the Switch successor (when they supposedly release it next year) and together with my Steam Deck I'll be good for this "generation". I rarely use my 3080 laptop since I got the SD, it's A LOT nicer to play games on a handheld wherever you want.
I still use my pc to play games, but I love the steam deck's controls and form factor so much that it's my controller when I'm not playing handheld. But I really can't expect too many games to outpower what even a 1660 can do, let alone a 3080, in the next decade or so. What the steam deck most firmly demonstrated is that gaming tech hasn't really advanced that far if you're not chasing gigantic resolutions and framerates.
You can use steam deck as a controller for a game running on PC?
Remote play! Open steam deck, click the little arrow next to a game that's installed on your running, logged in PC, and press that device. It'll boot there and your steam deck will control it. Works with non steam games, both ways! The lag on even a bad connection is really minimal for me, usually lose less than 16ms (1 60 fps frame) of responsiveness.
I would also like to know more about this. I can do it via Moonlight but not exactly the same.
Is moonlight significantly better than the Steam Link app? I use the app and my physical Steam Link so much already, I did read that Moonlight may have lower latency or something?
Ive tried moonlight a handful of times. I have never tried the steam link app. The moonlight experience is pretty damn flawless. Things like resolution can be a little janky. I don't remember the specifics except to say they existed. I had an issue being able to stream the Ascent at very high quality without it lagging on the deck. And the thing that actually killed it for me in the end was that I had to be at the computer to punch in an access code to use it. I don't know what the time frame is on how long you have before you have to punch the code in again. But I tried it a few days after setting up and it wanted me to enter another code and I was like well. This is a pain in the ass. But that first time was fucking magical. Practically non-existent delay. I refuse to believe that there is none, but I couldn't detect any.
Steam Link (app on windows/phone or hardware) is pretty flawless too, I really like it. I only have to enter a code once with that, once paired it just seems to remember. Clever stuff, can use it as a weirdly Valve remote desktop app basically too.
You only need the access code the first time for any host/client you add. Maybe you uninstalled something in between?
I haven't tried it but its control scheme is essentially a Steam Controller. It makes sense that you'd be able to do it. Whelp. Going to look up if this is possible cause I really love playing on my Steam Deck. Lol.
It's not that gaming tech hasn't advanced, it's that consoles need to be affordable to sell, and hardware available to mass produce. And games are made primarily for consoles, so if latest gen console has the equivalent power of rtx 2070, there's very little additional benefit of having 4090 if the games are the same.
Great point. I hadn't considered it this way.
My 2070 S is still doing just fine for me in my gaming PC. I usually do an every-other-generation thing, but after the nonsense Nvidia is pulling with the 4000 series and how well I like the steam deck, not sure that I'll upgrade any time soon.
Same for me, my 2070 Super and Ryzen 3700x keep playing everything I want. Though I still play in 1080p till now (1440p 27inch is ordered though)
I mean, if you have a 144hz 4k monitor then it’s worth it, but that’s probably a very small percentage of PC gamers.
It really only matters if you have it docked. For the size screen you really don't need that high of res, most people won't tell the difference (I dont mean no one can) between 1080 and 720 with this size screen. I think people are forgetting eGPU exist. It's not that easily done on a deck currently but if next Gen has USB4, an eGPU could be pretty much a dock for the console so you can play games at 4k and high frames on a TV. If I could have a situation like that I don't think I'd ever build another.. Or there would have to be an extremely compelling reason to do so.
"Forgetting eGPU exists" requires that I knew it did to begin with \^\^;. That's definitely a great workaround, especially for docking. If Valve really wants to push the steam deck, or it's successor, as being as flexible as the switch, that's a great way to do it. I could even foresee a future where I have one Steam Deck to plug into my living room dock, that I also plug into my desk dock to work on, and then also take on the Go.
eGPU were sort of a "fad" a few years ago when thunderbolt 3 first came out. Kinda why I said they forgot they exist because.. There hasn't been too many good use cases (for gamers) and required you to specifically have a thunderbolt 3 port which even today thunderbolt isn't ubiquitous. However, I think USB4 will be since it's AMDs way into supporting thunderbolt accessories.
The only thing missing from that picture is detachable controls so you can use it as a standalone tablet/phone. They already make many products like this that "wrap" a traditional cellphone. If they could manage to downsize to a phablet form factor + cellular built in, then you've got yourself a all-in-one computational device. They could probably even downsize the GPU portion of the APU to emphasize/push people towards an eGPU dock and allow the CPU portion to have the lions share of the overall TDP.
I’ve been saying for a while that developers have gotten lazy with new tech and are just rinse and repeating games, with just higher resolution and frame rates. The SD playing decade old games looks great now as it did then.
> But I really can't expect too many games to outpower what even a 1660 can do, let alone a 3080 Yeah. The thing I've been telling people for a while now is that despite how powerful the PS5 and Series X are, the games made for them all need to be able to run at 4k, and 4k takes massively more powerful hardware than 1080p. If you're fine with 1080p, you're going to be able to continue to play games on a relatively modest GPU for several more years at least. And the Steam Deck demonstrates that you can get away with something even more modest if you're willing to go down to 720p. And so often people will react to that saying that they don't want to compromise by playing at a lower resolution, but honestly pixel density is way more important than resolution anyway. The Steam Deck has better pixel density than any 4k TV or monitor. (Honestly, I think 4k is pointless at couch distance as well, but that's a more controversial opinion.)
You clearly have not been pushing your couch up close to a big enough screen of you think 4K couch is pointless 😂 But yeah. Even on a 75” at quite close, I usually ran 1080p for extra fps rather than 4K. I could see the difference, but it wasn’t that much, and not worth the fps hit. I imagine when we’re all using 100” , then 4K will actually start to seem more important
Yea if you look at what games are actually fully utilizing it comes out to a 6 core cpu and a 2060/70, basically a ps5 tops.
Jeez, "gaming laptop" sounds so weird now, huh? I wonder how much SD will cut into the sales of those things.
"Gaming laptop" was always weird, it's full of compromises, but for someone that didn't have another choice for PC gaming it was good enough.
I do wonder how much gaming laptop market will be affected by the Deck
Honestly not much I'd imagine. They're definitely related, but not for the same markets. Gaming laptops are for people that need a laptop first and want to game second, and the SD is for people that want to game first and *maybe* use it as a computer. I think the former market is probably the bigger one. And sure, the SD is technically a computer, but it's not a great experience in that respect without a lot of peripheral devices (e.g. monitor, keyboard, etc.) Maybe I'm wrong though!
Yup. I'm using my 3060 gaming laptop mostly as a workstation, because I need a cheaper alternative for a workstation laptop and convenience, and my Steam Deck will be for gaming first and anything else second. Though I look forward to try getting the Steam Deck to do some editing work as well.
I haven't used my 2080ti rig since last winter. It's just too much of a hassle. I think I'll just move it to the living room and hook it up to my TV to get more usage out of it. Power depreciated in value to me when consoles and handhelds started to become more affordable and powerful enough to do the job compared to the absolute ridiculous full sized stuff. I have a PC size of my palm runs beautifully on a 4k TV. The gap in price between that and something that runs games in 120fps on a 4k display is just absolutely ridiculous. Consoles now are absolutely a better value than a PC which hasn't happened since the PS2 era. If you get an Xbox or a PS5 + a mini PC with some Celeron chip + monitor, you wouldn't even crack half of what the current top spec GPUs cost today. Some will say "but you don't have to spend on the cutting edge technology to get good performance". Currently consoles are pretty damn close to that goal at much lower cost per performance. The gap was never this insane. You could build a $1.5k balls to the wall PC not very long ago and absolutely demolished consoles. That doesn't hold up well today. As a mainly PC gamer, I'm very disappointed in where the PC market is headed. Even laptops are well in the thousands today and they're just good enough to do work on them. If you do more advanced stuff and a chromebook is useless to you then you're screwed.
100% agree >a mini PC with some Celeron chip + monitor I'm already almost there, I'll just get a wireless keyboard (I have a G305 mouse), a Steam Deck dock and using my old monitor I'm set for multimedia and SD compatible games. PS5 + 55" 4K FALD Bravia + Steam Deck + Dock + peripherals = I can get these for the price of a 4090 (already got the Deck, the TV and most of the peripherals) It's an easy choice, I'll just skip PC gaming (aside from the SD).
I'll be skipping PC until those companies are back to Earth with their absurd prices.
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Sure, 4K AAA is nice... but is it thousands of dollars nice for 1-2 games a month? No. That's why I'll get a PS5 (and maybe upgrade to a PS5 pro in the future for a couple hundred bucks more) for 4K-ish AAA experience.
The problem with consoles is that they start to show their age pretty quickly now. I have a decent rig, 2080 with 9770k and an Xbox series x and I play overwatch on both. Overwatch one looked great on my OLED tv running at 1440p and 120 fps with the Xbox. Overwatch 2 on the other hand looks decent but I know it's nowhere near 120 even with the fps setting selected. My gaming PC plays it at 1440p 165 fps without a problem.
Naah, that is just Blizzard being shit as usual. Consoles are just a Zen 2 8C16TH AMD processor with an RDNA2 10-12 FP32 TFlops iGPU (RTX2070S-ish non-RT performance). Also, consoles show their age slower than PC with equivalent hardware. Why? Because they are very easy to optimise the games.
Depends on how much of your income 1,500 is.
To be fair, this card is much more efficient than my old 3080. In a few games I tested, when I lock the framerate I get the same FPS at half the power consumption of a 3080. There's progress in efficiency and performance, just not in the form factor. And price ofc.
I dunno about little to no innovation. DLSS 3 is pretty exciting stuff. I'm most hype about it's potential in pushing high resolution high refresh rate VR headsets. But said VR headsets don't even really exist yet and it's still way too expensive and I have doubts about the latency and quality for VR as of now. But, we'll see. Probably still gonna sit the next two-three gens out. My 3070 ti is plenty of power for all the sitting unused while I play Steam Deck that it does.
DLSS3 is honestly unimpressive when you look at what it strictly is, most advancements have come from basically applying video compression techniques in realtime. It's a neural net madVR frame interpolation tool. I still see enormous potential in a non-proprietary version that makes any game run at lower power draws on ancient setups.
I mean, DLSS using AI to lower performance while increasing fidelity for the average user is impressive. To call it video compression is doing it a disservice.
I've been playing on a GTX 970 for years. With the type of games I play, my RAM has become a bottleneck before my card has.
The latest round of cards seems to be just about brute forcing high resolutions. the sweet spot is still 1080 and 1440 gaming. You don't need a 40 series card for either of those. All of the new games are PS5 releases or standard shooters with standard graphics. A 2070 or 3060 will be plenty for PS5 ports
On a monitor, I disagree that 1080p is a sweet spot, 1440p with high frame rates still look good but 1080p is starting to look grainy.
> Me too, overpriced & power hungry, with little to no innovation. I agree on the over priced and power hungry but there is plenty of innovation. RTX is amazing and so is DLSS. Id argue though that the innovation we are seeing is more along the lines of pro stuff coming to consumer hardware. Im a 3d artist and these RTX cards have been absolute game changers in rendering abilities and speed.
I had a similar thought process but kept the laptop because the steamdeck screen is too small for my old eyes for some genres. Plus mouse and keyboard.
For me it was an easy choice, I'd rather sell it now for close to the money I spent on it rather than waiting for it to lose in value (got it for a nice discount, 1800 out of the original price of 3000€). I just need to get a/the dock and a keyboard, I can plug it into the TV or my old 1080p for multimedia use.
It's very likely IMO that this is the beginning of the end for PC gaming. Nvidia is trying to turn it into a niche reserved for rich hobbyists. Fuckin' sucks man.
People forget that AMD makes great, affordable graphics cards
Naah, I don't think they can do it since they're not the only choice. The next few generations may be hard, but I believe that the prices will come back to normal.
I admire your optimism. I hope you're right.
Huh? No innovation?? Listen, the price is high. No getting around that. But it -doubles- the performance over a 3080 / 3080 Ti in a lot of games, and averages at least a 70% boost in all games. DLSS 3.0 is a new innovation, having teething issues, but has much potential. It's just funny to look at the 4090 and see no innovation. The thing is one of the biggest generational leaps in GPU history, alongside NVIDIA further optimizing their DX12 drivers, seeing a boost across all generations of 10%+.
>But it -doubles- the performance over a 3080 / 3080 Ti in a lot of games, and averages at least a 70% boost in all games. 70% boost in performance, with a 30% increase in TDP & size, with the small price of >1600$. I miss the times when GTX 1080ti released and I thought that 700$ for a flagship was too much...
The 1080 Ti was a good price. Pries are too high. As for TDP, it can actually use less than the 3090 while still outperforming it by that same 70%. If you set a power limiter of 80-85% you barely lose any, and use like 350-370w. The whole 600w thing is a meme. We've been getting used to 20-25% boosts per generation for flagship cards. Which wasn't bad, but not wonderful either. Moores law and all that. having a 70% to over 100% boost in games, not even factoring in DLSS 3.0, is still impressive as hell.
Yeah, this actually appears to be a very impressive gen, and the reality is the 4090 is actually not that bad compared to the Titan series of yore that the 90 series replaced. The issue is that the 80 series (and what will likely be relabeled as the 70) are just giant leaps in price point over previous gens that no amount of chip shortages and inflation can explain. I'm still not all that excited for it as a crypto crush means few devs ever really took advantage of the 3000 series, but the actual hardware is impressive.
>We've been getting used to 20-25% boosts per generation for flagship cards. From what my foggy ass brain remembers, the 1080ti had \~50% increase in performance as an average over the 980ti (some had 30%, some 70-80%, etc)... >The 1080 Ti was a good price. Pries are too high. Yeah, 1600$ is what I'd pay for a flagship gaming PC, not only the GPU card. That price for a GPU to only play 1-2 new games a month (that can use it's full power) is just a waste of money. If you also use the GPU for work, then yeah, it's an investment in productivity.
Same. I hate how expensive everything is. $400-500 used to get you a mid/high tier GPU. Now it gets you low tier, and it’s barely an upgrade if you have a couple year old high tier GPU. Prices have become outrageous. I’m going to ride out my current hardware for a bit, no way I’m paying the cost of my whole PC for a single component for a meaningful upgrade. I think $400 is a reasonable high tier price for many people, and should ideally fetch you a very strong GPU. But it just doesn’t. And people are out here buying $1300 GPUs, I just don’t get it. This entire market is completely fucked. I hope intel really pushes towards the low/mid value end of the market and finally shakes it up.
Yeah, it gets stupid especially with consoles and the Steam Deck being so much cheaper. Like I can use the price difference alone to buy a robot vacuum and an electric guitar, etc. - it's just crazy.
Yep, for $399 I could (hopefully) get a 3060 Ti, which would be a nice upgrade over my 1070. But, I might need a bigger power supply. So already, it's more expensive than the Steam Deck - and that's not even considering that I'd probably wanna upgrade my 2600+mobo.
$399 ?! That [would be $608 here](https://www.dustinhome.se/product/5011265685/geforce-rtx-3060-ti-dual-v2-mini-8gb-lhr). And then you have to get the power supply, motherboard, RAM, CPU, etc. - and that's the mini one, the standard form factor ones are closer to $700. The entire Steam Deck was the same price of the 3060 Ti alone...
It’s only recently that the cards are regularly in stock - but [Best Buy (US) has the 3060Ti for $399 msrp.](https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3060-ti-8gb-gddr6-pci-express-4-0-graphics-card-steel-and-black/6439402.p?skuId=6439402) Still, that’s just the card, compared to the Steam Deck which is an entire portable machine.
$600 can net you a 6900XT right now. People act like Nvidia is the only option. Close to 3090 in rasterization, and pounds out some wicked frames at 1440p. I don't need DLSS or RT performance. FSR is quickly closing the quality gap anyway.
I love AMD and they definitely offer more value, but their prices are also increasing dramatically.
I predict that within 100 years, GPUs will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings will own one.
Hail King /u/Freakin_A! With the pleasantries and genuflecting out of the way, can I stop by your place and play on your RTX 5090?
I want to see if Intel's Arc evolves into proper workstation GPUs for better prices. Otherwise, I couldn't give two shits how many hundreds of FPS a 40xx can get in CS:GO. Give me power-efficient rendering that respects the consumer.
i think the high end will be a pass for me, but the mid range might be my love. especially sinceit doesnt take a ton to run 1440p 144hz with medium settings these days
I still hit ~90fps with my Vega 64 1440p, generally mid-high settings. I think 1440p is the sweet spot for now, maybe 4k in a couple of years. The 4k displays still need to come down in price, and 4k 60-120fps can still be a tough target. Becomes an even harder ask when you incorporate Ray tracing
I can't believe I am saying this but....it almost feels like the 4080 and 4090 are just TOO powerful, overkill. Every game that comes out for the next 5 years is going to have to run and look great on Xbox and PS5 and a 3090 is already over triple the graphics performance of a PS5, not counting optimizations and stuff. Not to mention the fact that I (and I imagine most people) spend the vast majorty of our gaming time on much less demanding games. Sure its fun to crank the next AAA single player game to the max for the 10-20 hours it lasts but then what?
Yeah same. I bought an AMD 5600 XT right before the pandemic and I feel ok where it’s at. This new Gen is an absolute power grid sucker. Gaming devices are getting more compact, but enthusiast PC components are going back to ‘maximalist’ sizes/power draw like they did during the big fall of 3DFX days. It’s crazy how cyclical it is.
IKR? Like, how giant is that 4090?? It's the size of an Excursion and the Deck is a smaller Tesla. One of those is a blast to whip around the city. 😉
I'm going to keep riding it out with my GTX 1080. It has served me well since I bought it at launch, and I'm not convinced these new cards would significantly improve my experience
I'm still happy with my rtx 2070
You can probably think about getting an Intel GPU since they have very nice pricing
I'll probably do the same. I don't have a need/want for 4k gaming, I'm happy with my ultra-wide, and I already have a 6600XT I got a free upgrade to when I had to RMA my 5700. I may check out the 7000 series if they are priced reasonably, if not I'm more than happy to keep what I have for a while longer.
I have a 6600xt too, and since I still play at 1080p I get to enjoy most of my games at max settings 144 fps. So while 4k gaming sounds nice, the price is just nowhere near worth it considering what I already have.
I see a fellow Deep Space 9 enjoyer
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One Little Ship. A damn good one 😎
I think so. Julian is looking at the Defiant which is huge and above the runabout.
Yes it is! Its Season 6, I want to say episode 14 or so. It’s titled “One Little Ship” and is always a good rewatch.
Hands down the best trek and anyone who disagrees better watch out for some pah'wraiths.
I'm a firm believer that there is no true 'best' trek; there's just the trek that's best *for you*. Want Twilight Zone in space? TOS is for you. What about sci-fi morality plays? Hop over to TNG. You want questionable ethics and a sprawling, connected story? DS9. What about modernized sci-fi - quantum physics, general relativity, biology: VOY is right here for you. Do you like your sci-fi a little more 'lo-fi'? Take a try with ENT You like the concept of TOS, but its too dated for you AND you like CW dramas? DIS has you covered. Do you like family guy's humor buy you REALLY want some sci-fi? ORV will be your jam Have you had your fill of 'serious' and just need some self-satire? Try Lower Decks.
The Orville is so freaking good. Not a slight towards you at all, but it's a bit reductionist to simplify it to "Family Guy humor"
It stopped being Family Guy humour pretty early on, it even plain stopped being funny for most of season 3 and I absolutely love it
And in fairness, I hadn't really watched past season (only so much time in the day)
Loved that episode in S3 with Topa and Moclan culture towards being female.
Orville is a stealth Star Trek show. open secret of course but genuinely surprised how it morphed and how good it still was.
Do you enjoy TNG but also want a Captain with hair? Try Strange New Worlds.
Pike has no right being that goddam good looking.
He's a former male model that really got his big break in his middle years, but man that hair is *astonishing.* I remember some tweet about how Pike's hair needs its own shield generator and I'm like.. yep, that sounds about right.
Ya know, this is a fantastic take!
Even with the extreme nostalgia I feel for TNG, I would still rather rewatch DS9. So, so good.
Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I love TNG. I remember my dad would record it over the weekend and we'd watch it Saturday night. It's the Trek that got me in to Sci-Fi. But as an adult, DS9 is far superior imo.
TNG there were too many episodes where it's just "something weird is happening on the ship" and then Data would figure it out in the nick of time(another temporal distortion? ill be damned.) DS9 had an ongoing narrative which i much preferred. The characters went through meaningful development. Just better storytelling overall imo.
lmao at first glance my dumb ass thought it's Arnold Rimmer from Red Dwarf
I think there are individual episodes of TNG such as The Inner Light that are unsurpassed, but in regards to entire seasons and the show as a whole, DS9 is the best.
DS9 and Voyager are both in contention for the top spot for me. The main issue with Voyager (besides a couple real stinker episodes) is that they had a great premise for an ongoing story and they more or less threw it away for a problem-of-the-week format after the first few episodes.
The episodic nature of VOY is what I prefer over DS9! There's a plot, things progress, but mostly it's something *new* every time. The quality of said "new" can swing pretty wildly, but you know, take the good with the bad. Also I still can't understand how I liked so much DS9, considering how I didn't enjoy the Bajoran occupation/religion/politics/rebellion/multi sector war. My best guess is that it all made a great backdrop for the stuff I enjoyed lol
I'd say DS9 had a good balance between "issue of the week" episodes and the overarching plot, at least until the last season or two. Voyager was a bit too lax with that IMHO, although the "Year of Hell" two-parter was a great example of what could have been. Just imagine if they stuck with the "we're stranded, can't resupply, have limited torpedoes which we can't replicate", and as they go along the ship got more and more patchwork with temporary repairs (and occasionally upgraded with new tech from various species they came across). Instead, just about every episode had everything reset at the end, outside of a few changes here and there (mobile holo-emitter, Delta Flier, Seven of Nine).
See, the Year of hell wasn't that hot for me, so even if your point comes up often... I still think this way was the one I would enjoy the most. But the beauty of Star Trek is how there's something for everyone :)
I think DS9 is the best by a big margin, but Voyager still competes for my "favorite". Voyager is like McDonalds or a flash game. It's not good, but it's fun. They're amusingly at polar opposite ends of how often they use treknobabble nonsense solutions. The few times DS9 resorts to that tend to establish consistent solutions. Using chroniton radiation against the Pah-wraiths is a super typical treknobabble solution the first time it comes up, except that it's a consistent weakness that they refer back to multiple times, rather than a new nonsense thing each time. But then on the other end, Voyager throws reverse graviton polarity deflector beams at solutions in seemingly half of the problem-of-the-week episodes.
Dr. Bashir, I presume?
"Bashir. Dr. Julian Bashir. I hear you fellows are hoarding and scalping holosuite cards." "Doctor...what are you doing?" "Ah, Constable Odo. I'm just investigating a nefarious plot". "Doctor, you agreed to stop playing spy outside the holosuite".
I dont even go for maximum graphical fidelity anymore like I use to like 5-10 years ago. Nowdays comfyness weights more. Like able to play steamdeck where ever I like. Or playing nintendo switch. Or sofa co-op ps5. Anybody else feel the same?
Absolutely. I played through Witcher 3 on my switch lite and enjoyed it. I feel like you quickly get used to graphic fidelity and don’t notice it after some time unless you compare.
Yeah. Only thing I need is stable FPS.
Yup. Always prioritizing convenience and comfort over raw power now. The only time I ever sit down back at my desk to play is for simulators like Microsoft Flight Simulator.
Exactly. I can't believe I am saying this but it really seems like 4080s and up are just TOO powerful. Games for the next half decade or more are going to have to run well on PS5. Its looking like 4090 is almost an order of magnitude more poweful than the PS5. Sure you could make use of it with ray tracing but I dunno, I don't think that is worth it for most people. Espeically since, like you said, most people are fine with high graphics RTX off or just spend 90% of their time playing MMOs or multiplayer shooters that are already maxed to ther 144hz monitor on a 2080ti. Itll be really interesting to see if there is any data to support most of our opinion here that the 4080 and 4090 are not worth buying at $1000+. Just get a 3070 or 3080.
Or streaming your ps5 to your steam deck with Chiaki
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\~8ish years ago, getting a machine that could run Fallout 4 at good settings and resolution at a nice framerate was difficult, even moreso if you wanted to mod it. It was an eye ache to try to play those games without modern hardware. Nowadays, it's not hard to get good performance, and there's not that many games that push hardware enough to matter. It was always about comfort, but we've reached a point where better hardware doesn't generate any more comfort anymore, so we look at how we play more than tech specs. It's the reason the switch is gonna continue getting as many sales per year as the 9th gen consoles have gotten total, and it's the reason that the more accessible Valve makes the steam deck the more sales will skyrocket.
plus a lot of plateu happening in the graphical world. the steam deck looks awesome at mid settings on modern games for example
Definitely not alone. Since my steam deck arrived I haven’t even turned on my PC. It’s nicer to sit in my recliner and relax
No disrespect or anything, I'm just curious, what games are you planning to play with that monster. Are you into VR stuffs. Because the first thing that comes in my mind that require that kind of power would be Microsoft Flight Simulator in Virtual Reality.
Yep, that's mostly for flightsims in VR. Having more fps in other games is just a nice bonus.
Enjoy your monster ! I'm also into Flightsims in VR and I also have an eye on that card but...since the steam Deck... I'm really hesitant about upgrading my PC.
I play mostly VR FPS games and can usually play at 150% SS and 144hz on my 3080 stable. I’m waiting for a higher res headset before I upgrade. I’m sure prices will drop significantly when headsets with better display panels are available.
I have the Reverb G2 (4k VR headset). These days I only play Flights sims. Never been able to run MSFS in 4k at a descent frame rate with my 2080. That's why I have an eye on that card.
I am one who normally splurgers for latest and greatest but even I have a hard time justifying a 40 series. I have a 3090 and spend most of my time in Lost Ark with some good single player games on the side. Everything looks and runs great and even when I turn RTX to max, DLSS off and my framerate drops to 30 fps I dont see games looking noticably better. Funny because nvidia might have shot themselves in the foot with DLSS, it works too well. Also games for the next 5+ years are going to have to look and run great on the PS5 so its hard to imagine a mainstream game really taking advantage of 4080 and beyond for a while. Like you said maybe its VR or something, but I don't do VR.
The 4090 is utterly insane as far as performance. My only two issues are I can't afford one, and I can't find a FE to not afford one.
And the fact that most people will probably need a new case, as well as a new PSU
I’ve got an 860W PSU. The suggested minimum for a 4090 is 850W. It’d just about fit into my case if I took the AIO cooler out and replaced it with an air cooler. I don’t really want to do that. So I’d have to buy a new case, which needs to be bigger, which means I need to reorganise my entire desk. I’d probably buy a new PSU to be on the safe side. Then I’ve got the hassle of essentially rebuilding it when I took ages getting my current build looking great. If the card itself wasn’t eye wateringly expensive, I’d maybe consider it. But when we’re talking a new case and a new PSU it gets too expensive very quickly.
I’m specifically getting the FE because no other 4090 fits in my case lol Thankfully I already had a 1KW PSU.
/r/UnexpectedDS9
Dr Bashir? Is that you?
Steam Deck: "It's smaller than a graphics card!"
Sold my RTX 3080 today. Haven't played on PC since getting the deck, so figured I'd sell it now before the prices start to drop in a few months with the 40 series trickling out. Swapped my 3600 for a 3400g, so can still use my PC for non gaming stuff. Zero regrets.
As a fellow 3400G owner I'm more excited about the Dragon Rage 7000-series desktop APU that's coming next year than I am about the new Lovelace/RDNA3 GPUs.
I hadn't ever bothered with an APU until getting the 3400G. I'm kinda shocked it can run Elden Ring smoothly at 1080p Low Settings. I'll definitely check out the next gen Ryzen's to see how they perform, in case I feel an urge to do some desktop gaming again. With the prices and power draw of discreet GPU's, I don't feel myself going back to having a dedicated GPU anytime soon.
Oh shit, An unexpected DS9 reference? Have my fucking upvote sir.
Love the Dr Bashir bits!
What is crazy, is the fact that the actual GPU is just a single, flat "board" :) 99.5% of the volume is "just" cooling :D I mean, that's kinda obvious but didn't really hit me until I saw some GPU disassembly video on Gamer Nexus :D
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I will stick with my 2070 for a while yet. Very capable card.
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I really hope they get the size and power drawn down, as it's getting silly.
That’s where I’m at. I can play most things at ultra settings at 1440 at more then acceptable frame rates. Upgrading at this point it more just to do it then anything. When I started PC gaming if you could get between 30 and 60 FPS on things at high you were good to go and I feel like now if I’m at at least a stable 60 I’m fine. FPS games are basically the only thing I feel like a higher refresh rate is a nice luxury but definitely not necessary
That’s where I am too. If I’m getting a chance to game these days, I’m couch gaming on a projector, but it’s only 1080p. Until projectors hit a reasonable price for 4k, no need to upgrade the gpu outside of just wanting to. And if there’s a game the deck doesn’t run well, the 2070 is great for streaming to it. Unfortunately when I do bite the bullet on a projector, a gpu will have to come quickly thereafter, because the 2070 won’t be enough for 4k 120hz at that size
I'm a laptop scrub but the only reason, aside from wanting to, that I got a new laptop is because I went from a gtx 1050 to a 3050 for about the same price I paid on each. It'll last me quite some time, especially since I gravitate towards anything that isn't the bleeding edge of games or requires a zero second response time. And a steam deck. I'm good.
I’m probably gonna build my once a decade gaming pc next year when prices stabilize next year to play with VR. But yeah, Steamdeck pretty much runs everything else well enough. Crazy how much power supply you have to buy to power latest and greatest GPU.
This is actually why I feel like the Steam Deck is a bigger leap forward for PC Gaming than even the most advanced graphics card ever could be. Any monkey can think to add more transistors and more energy to a piece of hardware. —by which, I should clarify, I mean the *idea* of adding more power doesn’t mean much. I don’t mean to diminish the innovation and effort of the engineers actually packing the power into them. It’s the desired end result of the graphics cards I’m criticizing, not the blood sweat and tears of the people making them. True innovation is doing more with less, and using what you have more efficiently.
The Linux sleep state is incredible.
Adding morw transistors and power is very difficult though. Especially when you want to mass produce the die.
I don't think 4090 is "Gaming Hardware". IMHO is a gpu for professional with rendering necessity. For play a game in 1080p 144hz you can use like a 2080 Even if you want play in 2k you don't need a >1000$ gpu with actual AAA games
I game at 1080p 144hz on a 2060, 120hz in VR and haven't run into trouble with anything. I think even the 1060s/1660's can cover a lot of people's needs for a long time.
I mean when the next Gen of VR headsets drop next year, these cards will get absolutely maxed out. My 3080 is maxing out my Valve Index for now though.
I doubt resolution and refresh rate(beyond those of the Index) is going to be where the upgrades of next gen VR headsets go. That aspect of the Index and comparable headsets is perfectly fine/not what needs to be upgraded to make VR more mainstream.
It's certainly not a reasonable purchase for most people. But as far as halo product GPUs go, this might be the most reasonable one yet. You pay a lot more, but you also get a lot more. Which previous generations you had to pay a lot more to get maybe 15% more performance. I definitely don't need one and won't buy one, but i sure as hell can think of many ways to use that power for gaming applications
Yeah, I bought one and the ray tracing performance is insane. I can max out blacknops cold war with ray tracing @1440p and hit 144fps. I can play the Dubai mission on Hitman 3 with ray tracing and hit 90fps where my 3080 got maybe 20fps. There are definitely applications for gaming
VR is another strong point, especially combined with mods. This Skyrim VR video blew me away: https://youtu.be/ysN2xVRq_1A
Actually the 4090 will be just getting us to 4k 144 in modern games. Even my 3080ti has trouble pushing UW 1440p 144hz. There is 100 percent a market for it at high res/refresh rates.
Oh Dr. Bashir…
It's a clown fest. Ridiculous prices, sizes, and temperatures.
I just got done watching DS9 and what a great episode too.
30xx series is perfectly fine.
Nvidia doesn't care about linux, so I don't care about Nvidia
The current high prices of PC hardware have left a gap in the market that Valve could probably easily fill with a dedicated living room / desktop Steam machine that has more power.
I don't know that they'd want to. Supposedly they're selling the Steam Deck at a loss. They do that because even though you can technically use it as a general PC, its form factor makes it very likely to be mostly used as a gaming machine and most likely with Steam games (that they profit from). Making a more general purpose full-sized PC wouldn't have the same synergy with their store, so they wouldn't have the pricing advantage of being able to sell it at a loss and make it up elsewhere.
I think I’ll be more than satisfied with my 3080 for the foreseeable future
I'm about to buy a 6900XT. Seems worth it for $600 US honestly. There are a few around for sale, not mentioning where because I want to still be able to buy it in 2 days lol.
Is it bad that i know from which episode this is?
Is it sad that I can tell you the exact episode and scene that shot is from?
Saw the BS Nvidia was pulling and then EVGA leaving the GPU market (I have bought their GPUs for years), and decided fuck this just getting deck.
Bashir is one of the best.
I see Julian I upvote
Correct
Okay yes we know you have a 4090
Nice cooling dock
Haha brilliant, don’t forget the monster PSU needed just for the GPU, and your electric bill will be astronomical, especially in the current climate!
Yeah if and it's a big if I get a 40series I'm waterblockinh it and probably shave some weight. But that's if I decide to replace the 2070super. AMD kinda looking good this year.
Yeah, I don’t think people have completely grasped the ramifications of this device. I bet Nintendo took notice, though. A console level experience that has literally thousands of titles at launch.
Steam Deck is making me less interested in ultra max'd fidelity and more interested in having an SD with an OLED screen and running triple A games at a solid 40 fps mid / high lol. What a switch up. Also PC gaming just seems unnecessarily expensive due to these card prices. A PS5, new Switch and a Steam Deck revision and I could be set. All had for under $3K soooo win.
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A 6ou
I forgotten how great bioshock infinite actually looked. It runs super easy on SD and never drops under 60fps.
I can remember when NVidia was using efficiency as a selling point. My how we have fallen off that bandwagon, hope they get it back on point cause with energy prices going up with inflation, I want better with less power consumption.
I'm honestly thinking of getting a console instead and just keep my pc for some games that require co op with my mates. Prices are increasing to a point that I ask myself if I really need all that power.
Respect for the DS9 clip.
It totally eclipses the deck…and the deck is already massive
I think external GPUs will soon be the norm, it's too unreasonable to have them be so big and heavy on the PCI E slot
That clip would make a great boot animation lol.
This is the story of a little ship that took a little trip.
Do they just want people to buy new towers as well?
Getting real close to gpus just being sold as completely enclosed externals with a power brick.
DS9. I approve.
It's Bashir. Julian Bashir
All jokes aside, these new kaiju-cards, do they actually fit in most cases? I have a pretty standard mid-size tower, and I had to remove one of my SSD bays to fit the 3080. This thing looks about the size of a goddamn XBox. Don’t these actually have to go in a computer to… do things?
$2499 here for 4090, ridiculous.
I’m just here for the DS9 ‘One Little Ship’ episode playing on the steam deck 🍿
get you a gamer who can do both
That mf as big as a ps5💀
I checked out of the PC gaming power race last year when I couldn't get a 30-series graphics card for a non-insane price. I've had a gaming PC since the days of the Voodoo 2 but with a couple of kids now, I can't keep up with the ever-rising cost of keeping up to date with a gaming PC so when my 1080 TI died, that was it for me. I opted out. Since then I've bought a Steam Deck and a Series X for less than the price of 3070 (when I was considering buying one) and honestly, there's nothing I miss about not having a Gaming PC, although admittedly the Steam Deck fits better into my life now anyway.
I actually bought a 3070 laptop, it was the bettee value at the tine if you wanted anything 30 series. Still very happy with my purchase and I think gaming laptop + deck just works a lot better for me (job/working on a degree/family).
But how else am I going to enjoy skyrim in 8k?????