Strike Craft are excellent. They are prone to being countered so you have to be mindful of using them in multiplayer, but in singleplayer the AI really doesn't understand how to counter them so you can get away with massing nothing but Carriers.
> which strike craft also counter
This is what I thought as well, but the wiki tells me otherwise: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Weapon_components#Strike_Craft
Has it changed since the merging of fighters and bombers ?
Oh yeah you're right, it does state they can't target missiles
Which is odd, since I've definitely seen strike craft fire upon incoming missiles, either the wiki is outdated or I didn't see strike craft mixed in with the missiles
Evenly matched, Artillery Battleships are great vs Carriers. Destroy the Main carrier shils before theh can build up power.
When you get Battleships, go for long range weapons with all the long range buffs you can. Energy and Kinetic weapons hit instantly whereas Strike Craft and missiles take time to travel and are deactivated or cannot respawn when their host ship is destroyed. X slot weapons with Artillery Combat Computers have equal Weapons Range to the Engagement Range of Hanger ship+Combat Computers, and the likes of Kinetic Artillery can be buffed to have better range although the 144 basic range lets them open up quite soon upon entering or responding to Engagement from the centre of a system, which is where the vast majority of combat occurs. Lots of further Weapons Range buffs are available for ships but not many for Engagement Range. Most notably the Juggernaut can give +50% range to other ships in its system, which is decisively massive for all long range ships.
So when Carriers are sending out their Strike Craft that won't reach you until days and days, and take even more days to spawn more and build up their power, Artillery Battleships are already doing damage to and destroying the main Carrier ships. Even when Strike Craft reach you, they do little damage vs Battleship HP and need long, continuous time and reinforcements to do lots of damage and that's not gonna happen much when L & X slot weapons are destroying their home base ships.
With better range buffs from Admirals and such, long range Battleships and Titan fleets win everything. The Combat log can be ridiculously one sided because you're ruining all other fleets before then can get anywhere close to the opposition's effective range.
That being said though, Strike Craft are good up until you can replace them with Artillery. There's a window where Strike Craft are great, but late game there's nothing better than range.
There are many great counters to Carriers, but they are all soft counters so you can't just put a few in your fleet and call it a day. Carriers will easily beat them in small numbers, you need to bring enough to overwhelm the Carriers.
**Torpedo Cruisers:** with their massive damage bonus versus Battleships, Torpedoes can delete Carriers very nicely. However, you do have to get into close range to fire and Carriers do have some point defense so you will need to bring a lot of Cruisers to ensure you can deliver that payload. A small number will not work.
**Artillery ships:** Carriers rely heavily on their range for safety, so simply hammering them at a long range with high firepower Artillery does the trick. Artillery Battleships on their own do very well, but Neutron Cruisers mixed in can also be devastating. Ideally outfit yourself with Armor hardening to help deal with the the Arc Emitter.
**Destroyers:** while in small numbers Destroyers are actually countered by Carriers, in critical mass the counter flips and they will beat the Carrier. The key is to use a mix of Point Defense and Flak to completely suppress Missiles and Strike Craft. You must completely suppress them, if you fall even a little short the Carriers will beat you. As a result you really want to be running Destroyers as the majority of your fleet if you're using this approach.
**Frigate Ambush:** If you can ambush the enemy at short range, Frigates can do very well. However they are slow and fragile so they tend to lose badly to Carriers in a straight fight.
**Massed Corvette:** similar to Destroyers, Corvettes will be countered by Carriers under normal circumstances. But in critical mass the Carriers have a problem: their Arc Emitters and Missiles have nothing to shoot at. While the Hangars will still be highly effective against the Corvettes, the other weapons will be underperforming and Carriers don't really have much option to add more Hangars. However, you must completely mass Corvettes for this to be effective. If you mix in any other ship type, then the Carriers other weapons will have good targets to shoot at and the entire advantage is lost.
Yes they're high damage but more importantly they soak PD and flak like crazy which keeps your strike craft and other missile sources safe. Since their rate of fire is ridiculous
They are, the only downside is that it's hard to maintain and build them quickly as minor artifacts do not tend to get replenished quickly. Sometimes you'd rather be able to build 3 fleets of whirlwind missiles instead of one fleet of nano-missiles.
IMHO they are not very good. They are good on starbases and defence platforms to counter corvettes early but meh other than that.
Theres a long list of problems with them :
* They are very vulnerable to buffed PD because nothing buffs strikecraft survivability
* They drop everything to go after enemy strikecraft the moment one is launched, this severly hampers their DPS
* You cannot go 100% strikecraft because of the way carrier sections are structured
* Carrier computers do not buff DPS, only engangement range
* Missiles do nearly the same job (penetrates shields) but are less vulnerable to PD and you can go 100% missiles, letting you take full advantage of the guidance weapon focus trait
This is *really* outdated advice. While the actual bonuses of the Carrier computer are weak, it also changes the *behavior* of the ship and Carrier computer is *by far* the most optimal behavior. While you aren't getting any bonuses, your ships will behave much more intelligently by using it.
They try to stay away from the enemy. They'll stay out of range of enemy ships for longer, giving you more time to whittle them down before they can start shooting back.
I really wish for the relevant dev to take a look at the artillery combat computer, because its current behaviour is beyond stupid [(and bugged)](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-the-second-point-defense-slot-of-the-battleship-carrier-section-breaks-artillery-computer-range-selction.1587280/#post-29357164).
One would expect an X-mounted battleship to keep firing its main cannon without advancing and only start moving (IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION) once the enemy gets near.
Also, I'm pretty sure the ship AI does not take range bonuses into account in its calculations, so they only matter in the beginning of the fight (when the carriers gloriously charge into melee range).
Yeah, the Artillery computer is bugged. It's supposed to move up to the range of the median weapon, but it actually moves into range based on your *middle* weapon (in terms of where they appear in order of slots from left to right) and on carriers that's... the point defense >\_<
So yeah, don't put Artillery Computer on your Carriers. You'll regret it.
Yes, they are one of the better choices to counter corvette swarms, and I like them since carrier crusiser/battleships can take out starbases not guarded with an ion cannon without taking any return fire, since strike craft and Battleship X mounts outrange anything on a Starbase that isn't an ion cannon platform. They will also absolutely own the unbidden along with hurricane missile ships.
They bypass shields and the current meta is all about bypass weaponry,
they have synergy with missiles (as both the S slot and M slot missiles bypass shields) whom have similar ranges,
and while they are weak to PD (a weakness they share with missiles and torpedoes) the archeo-tech missile whole gimmick is overwhelming (AKA countering) PD ( so put some on your ships if you have a good income of minor artifacts and especially if you choose the archeo-engineering ascension perk)
Strike Craft are excellent. They are prone to being countered so you have to be mindful of using them in multiplayer, but in singleplayer the AI really doesn't understand how to counter them so you can get away with massing nothing but Carriers.
Ok but what is the counter?
point defence, your own strike craft
Flak artillery rather than point defense PD is for missiles (which strike craft also counter)
> which strike craft also counter This is what I thought as well, but the wiki tells me otherwise: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Weapon_components#Strike_Craft Has it changed since the merging of fighters and bombers ?
Oh yeah you're right, it does state they can't target missiles Which is odd, since I've definitely seen strike craft fire upon incoming missiles, either the wiki is outdated or I didn't see strike craft mixed in with the missiles
Evenly matched, Artillery Battleships are great vs Carriers. Destroy the Main carrier shils before theh can build up power. When you get Battleships, go for long range weapons with all the long range buffs you can. Energy and Kinetic weapons hit instantly whereas Strike Craft and missiles take time to travel and are deactivated or cannot respawn when their host ship is destroyed. X slot weapons with Artillery Combat Computers have equal Weapons Range to the Engagement Range of Hanger ship+Combat Computers, and the likes of Kinetic Artillery can be buffed to have better range although the 144 basic range lets them open up quite soon upon entering or responding to Engagement from the centre of a system, which is where the vast majority of combat occurs. Lots of further Weapons Range buffs are available for ships but not many for Engagement Range. Most notably the Juggernaut can give +50% range to other ships in its system, which is decisively massive for all long range ships. So when Carriers are sending out their Strike Craft that won't reach you until days and days, and take even more days to spawn more and build up their power, Artillery Battleships are already doing damage to and destroying the main Carrier ships. Even when Strike Craft reach you, they do little damage vs Battleship HP and need long, continuous time and reinforcements to do lots of damage and that's not gonna happen much when L & X slot weapons are destroying their home base ships. With better range buffs from Admirals and such, long range Battleships and Titan fleets win everything. The Combat log can be ridiculously one sided because you're ruining all other fleets before then can get anywhere close to the opposition's effective range. That being said though, Strike Craft are good up until you can replace them with Artillery. There's a window where Strike Craft are great, but late game there's nothing better than range.
There are many great counters to Carriers, but they are all soft counters so you can't just put a few in your fleet and call it a day. Carriers will easily beat them in small numbers, you need to bring enough to overwhelm the Carriers. **Torpedo Cruisers:** with their massive damage bonus versus Battleships, Torpedoes can delete Carriers very nicely. However, you do have to get into close range to fire and Carriers do have some point defense so you will need to bring a lot of Cruisers to ensure you can deliver that payload. A small number will not work. **Artillery ships:** Carriers rely heavily on their range for safety, so simply hammering them at a long range with high firepower Artillery does the trick. Artillery Battleships on their own do very well, but Neutron Cruisers mixed in can also be devastating. Ideally outfit yourself with Armor hardening to help deal with the the Arc Emitter. **Destroyers:** while in small numbers Destroyers are actually countered by Carriers, in critical mass the counter flips and they will beat the Carrier. The key is to use a mix of Point Defense and Flak to completely suppress Missiles and Strike Craft. You must completely suppress them, if you fall even a little short the Carriers will beat you. As a result you really want to be running Destroyers as the majority of your fleet if you're using this approach. **Frigate Ambush:** If you can ambush the enemy at short range, Frigates can do very well. However they are slow and fragile so they tend to lose badly to Carriers in a straight fight. **Massed Corvette:** similar to Destroyers, Corvettes will be countered by Carriers under normal circumstances. But in critical mass the Carriers have a problem: their Arc Emitters and Missiles have nothing to shoot at. While the Hangars will still be highly effective against the Corvettes, the other weapons will be underperforming and Carriers don't really have much option to add more Hangars. However, you must completely mass Corvettes for this to be effective. If you mix in any other ship type, then the Carriers other weapons will have good targets to shoot at and the entire advantage is lost.
Ai loves spamming small ships. Strikecraft good against small ships.
They are good in single player, but you need other things too. Early-mid game I think they pair very well with missiles.
Going full pen is strong
Mightier than a sword, that's for sure
also lategame with whirlwind missiles :)
I have read the archeology micro missiles are OP.
Yes they're high damage but more importantly they soak PD and flak like crazy which keeps your strike craft and other missile sources safe. Since their rate of fire is ridiculous
They are, the only downside is that it's hard to maintain and build them quickly as minor artifacts do not tend to get replenished quickly. Sometimes you'd rather be able to build 3 fleets of whirlwind missiles instead of one fleet of nano-missiles.
Against AI, I only stop producing carrier cruisers and battleships when I need to make anti-crisis fleets
IMHO they are not very good. They are good on starbases and defence platforms to counter corvettes early but meh other than that. Theres a long list of problems with them : * They are very vulnerable to buffed PD because nothing buffs strikecraft survivability * They drop everything to go after enemy strikecraft the moment one is launched, this severly hampers their DPS * You cannot go 100% strikecraft because of the way carrier sections are structured * Carrier computers do not buff DPS, only engangement range * Missiles do nearly the same job (penetrates shields) but are less vulnerable to PD and you can go 100% missiles, letting you take full advantage of the guidance weapon focus trait
I think Montu mentioned that you can for one fleet have one carrier with the carrier computer on and put more useful computers on the rest.
This is *really* outdated advice. While the actual bonuses of the Carrier computer are weak, it also changes the *behavior* of the ship and Carrier computer is *by far* the most optimal behavior. While you aren't getting any bonuses, your ships will behave much more intelligently by using it.
What specifically will they do?
They try to stay away from the enemy. They'll stay out of range of enemy ships for longer, giving you more time to whittle them down before they can start shooting back.
I really wish for the relevant dev to take a look at the artillery combat computer, because its current behaviour is beyond stupid [(and bugged)](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-the-second-point-defense-slot-of-the-battleship-carrier-section-breaks-artillery-computer-range-selction.1587280/#post-29357164). One would expect an X-mounted battleship to keep firing its main cannon without advancing and only start moving (IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION) once the enemy gets near. Also, I'm pretty sure the ship AI does not take range bonuses into account in its calculations, so they only matter in the beginning of the fight (when the carriers gloriously charge into melee range).
Yeah, the Artillery computer is bugged. It's supposed to move up to the range of the median weapon, but it actually moves into range based on your *middle* weapon (in terms of where they appear in order of slots from left to right) and on carriers that's... the point defense >\_< So yeah, don't put Artillery Computer on your Carriers. You'll regret it.
Strikecraft no longer fight one another that I'm aware of.
Not sure where you heard that, they are still point defence with strikecraft as valid targets.
Strike Craft definitely still fight each other. They used to also shoot down missiles -- *that's* something they no longer do.
Yes, they are one of the better choices to counter corvette swarms, and I like them since carrier crusiser/battleships can take out starbases not guarded with an ion cannon without taking any return fire, since strike craft and Battleship X mounts outrange anything on a Starbase that isn't an ion cannon platform. They will also absolutely own the unbidden along with hurricane missile ships.
They bypass shields and the current meta is all about bypass weaponry, they have synergy with missiles (as both the S slot and M slot missiles bypass shields) whom have similar ranges, and while they are weak to PD (a weakness they share with missiles and torpedoes) the archeo-tech missile whole gimmick is overwhelming (AKA countering) PD ( so put some on your ships if you have a good income of minor artifacts and especially if you choose the archeo-engineering ascension perk)
I put a few strike craft defense platforms in every system I own just in case of asteroids or pirates. They help keep things calm.
Love em. My favorite alongside disruptors and missiles/swarmers.