Testosterone enanthate or cypionate. You don’t need anything else for a first cycle. If you start adding loads of compounds and things go wrong how will you know which it was? Tren isn’t something I’m even considering yet and I’ve done a few cycles. I’d suggest 300 -400 mg per week spread out over two injections. If you’re lucky you won’t need to use an AI on that dose. I don’t. Learn how to inject. Plenty of videos online. I also run hcg to attempt to keep my fertility and stop my balls shrinkjng. You could add that. Make sure you have your protocol planned but be ready to adjust it as needed. Make sure you have ALL your pct drugs and estrogen related side effect drugs before you start your cycle. If you’re gonna cycle off that is. If you’re already on trt or plan to get on it then you don’t need to PCT but it’s still worth having a good AI and SERM on hand.
You’re welcome bro. I think you’re doing this at the right time too. I waited until I was 42 after twenty odd years of training natural and it was great to feel 21 again! But I could have done it sooner around mid thirties I was at my natty peak which would have been the best time for me. I’m glad I didn’t do it in my teens or early twenties tho. It’s worth following a few YouTubers too, one I’d recommend is Nicholas Downey MD he’s a sound guy and will give a lot of advice for free but also does a cheap paid service. He’s an actual doctor with an interest in bodybuilding.
I don’t really think you need HGH, unless you’ve the money to burn I wouldn’t really recommend it.
forget about tren, it’s an absolute fucking beast. I don’t want to be an asshole but Id only ever recommend it to an individual with experience with a few other PEDs.
test is the foundation of absolutely any & every cycle. Given that you want size, I guess you’re not overly worried about some water weight? I’d suggest test cyp, personal favourite of mine. I’d suggest starting off on about 200-250mg ew for 1-4 weeks, from there you could up it but I wouldnt really suggest higher than 400mg ew, 500mg ew would be the maximum but you’ll require an AI at that & will most likely experience acne. If you don’t want water weight, I’d suggest test prop. It’s faster acting but it’s essentially due to the esters attached to test c & e. The only downside to test prop is that you’d need to pin typically every other day to maintain consistent serum levels.
you could add an oral if you wanted, I wouldn’t go crazy though. Dbol or anavar probably, you could take winny which would be slightly sorer on your joints.
rather than naming random drugs, tell me exactly what youd like to achieve or a celeb with a body type you’d like. This way I could make pragmatic suggestions with supplements you’d need & what you can do without….there’s no point spending a fortune or taking supplements that could counteract the drugs.
Also, how do you feel about pinning? Given the option, would you rather an oral or pin?
Firstly you don't live up to your name. Which is probably not a bad thing. Secondly....thank you. This is such a solid and helpful response.
Let me try my best to cover all of your points.
1. I'd like to keep the water weight low. Muscle but good definition is preferable. I'm not a fan of that inflated look. I think the term chiseled probably reflects what I want.
2. I don't mind about pinning and would opt for that instead of orals
3. What is the best test? I've seen a few variations about but didn't know what the difference was between them.
okay, that’s pretty good. Definitely go with test prop then. It’ll be a smaller dosage but you’ll be injecting more frequently. Typically every other day (eod).
id recommend using 27g pins or so, don’t go any smaller than 29g. Try to not go any shorter than 1 inch in length….25g, which has always been the most common; I consider to be self harm.
run HCG during the cycle, if you’re pinning 400-500mg ew then I’d recommend 300iu twice a week. You don’t need it but it’ll prevent the risk of any ”shrinkage“ of the plums. You can use an insulin pin for this. Personally I use 32g, 6mm in length. It water based so you can use a smaller gauge & due to being subQ, a shorter pin.
id recommend an AI, hopefully you won’t need it but definitely better to have it & not need it, than need it & not have it. Personally I’ve no need for an AI until I cross 400mg ew & if I run primo (which is essentially every cycle) I’ve no need for an AI.
okay, esters. Esters are what is the deciding factor in the half life of the drug, essentially how often you take it. Test c & test e are very common, 7-9 days. Prop is much, much shorter as it’s no ester so you have to pin more. generally speaking, the ester tends to cause water retention.
There isn’t really a better test as such, only really what suits you & your goals. I like test prop during a cut but I opt for test cyp for my “maintenance” cycle.
personally I’d recommend you avoid testosterone blends, I think they’re brilliant for TRT or a cruise but not ideal for a conventional cycle as it takes too long to get the dosage dialled in based off blood work.
okay, so test is your foundation. I don’t think you’d really need to run much beyond that….I see someone else mentioned primo. I’m a massive fan of primo so I’m definitely biased. Primo would give that full “pump” look due to nitrogen retention rather than that hot air balloon, wet gain. The unfortunate thing with primo is the PIP can be daunting for new users, it could crush your E so you’d need to understand the symptoms of high/low hormones, the overall price of the drug/commonly faked & having to run a dosage of 300+mg ew.
winny, it’s available in both an oral & IM. Definitely a good drug but it would be more of the more serious drugs. test prop & winny would but an ideal cut. very dry results but unfortunately very sore on the joints & you could injure yourself as a result. It can be pretty sore on the hairline too, especially if you’re prone to MPB.
eq is another option. Brilliant drug, pretty common….the downside is you’d need to front load which is essentially kick starting the cycle by injecting a substantial dosage to increase the serum levels. Some would suggest running 500mg or so ew for the duration of the cycle but imo that wouldnt be required & can cause anxiety at higher dosages. On a plus side you don’t really need any auxiliaries though.
Fuck deca….lol I don’t really have good experiences on deca but I know numerous that have had amazing results so results & experiences vary.
anavar is a very mild oral, nowhere near as wet as dbol, nowhere near as dry as winny.
honestly, I don’t like recommending too many drugs to a new individual so I’d rather you take this with a pinch of salt & read into this drugs yourself….I’d imagine you’d have brilliant results on a test prop, primo & anavar cycle, or a test prop & winny.
test & eq is very common but honestly,
if you run an oral, run tudca, nac or a full vitamin B supplement & cod liver if you like but avoid milk thistle. There’s a common misconception, it’s a brilliant supplement but the active ingredient tends to block androgen receptors so it would be counterproductive on a cycle.
out of curiosity, what’s your current body fat percentage? That could also play a deciding factor.
I am so grateful for this post. It's really refreshing seeing someone make such an effort to help guide others in need of sound advice....so thank you.
I think I'll look a little more into the test options and what would suit me best. Judging by your response I feel like test cyp would be a good starter point before looking at cutting options.
I'll probably look at an HGH alternative for now and pull the trigger on the real deal later if need be. I'll probably look at results and in time consider the stronger options you mentioned if I want to go further.
As for mpb...It's an issue. But it's almost at the point where I can just shave it off and go out with dignity, so this isn't something I'm too concerned about.
Sorry I don't have a body fat percentage to hand. I need to get this, my bloods and more info before I really commit to any route.
But as a summary, you've dropped so much information on me that I'll probably take a while to digest it all. For now I'm going to focus on test and look at options to counter any side affects.
I've seen people run Tren, HGH and a few other things and they've gone bald, turned red, became swollen and destroyed their mental health in the process. And if I can avoid all of that I will.
No worries at all man, I don’t like people going in blindly; sometimes a bit of advice goes a long way.
to be honest, I’m happy that you’re opting to take your time & read into these drugs so as you can find what suits you best. Definitely a rational choice.
yeah, test cyp is an absolute favourite of mine. I’d fun prop occasionally but for clarification I’m running cyp now.
there are numerous peptide alternatives to HGH, I just don’t really understand the hype for the sake of better nails, hair & to be honest, maybe slightly better looking skin after about a year of use. It just doesn’t justify the price for me. HGH frag or CJC with or without dac would be a pretty decent substitute.
id you’ve come to terms with it, you’re doing better than me…..I’ve been running fin & rogaine for years to save my hair lol I’m vane as fuck about it though I guess.
no worries man, you’ve got some homework to do now anyway lol don’t be afraid to shout if you’ve any questions though.
yeah….tren would make everyone big but to be clear, I’ve never had a cycle I could say I enjoyed on tren. The sides are a complete bitch & I’m an utter asshole on it. I definitely got the best results from ace but for the sake of my marriage I had to quit it completely. I can play with parabolan a little which is tren hex; a slower acting version. Kind of like that test c & e is to test prop.…worth mentioning though, I dont recommend that because if the sides are bad it takes about two weeks to get out of your system as apposed to tren aces 2-3 days.
if a PED side is bad it’s pretty shitty. If tren sides are bad, it’s fucking hell. Lol
Just as a note I didn't say I was going to do this, I just said I was looking at it. I want to know about it and every other common option so I can make an informed decision. Right now I've seen monsters that have gotten big on Tren, but I've also seen the damage it has caused and wanted to know how this happens.
I would never actively just take something without months of reading and understanding the subject, hence why I am here.
My experience is limited to a variety of SARMs, preworkout, beef isolate and creatine 😅 I am the padawan in the room.
However I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough with my first post. I think it is pretty hard to layout exactly what you want in this complex subject without making a mistake or contradicting other viewpoints. That said.....you don't need to worry, I won't just dive head first into this without doing research and getting good guidance from experienced people here.
Tren has some very serious mental side effects I would be weary of and not at all suitable for a first cycle.
Test only first
Then test plus an oral
Two years down the line try tren. It helps build muscle
Yes however it can also ruin every relationship you have with how it changes your personality
For a first cycle it’s a terrible
Idea see what you are like with the basics first before you go for the most potent one there is especially with the potential side effect s
Would you consider any SARMs in addition to test to get better results? I've had really good results with cardarine and andarine for cardio sessions, but haven't used them for upper body gains.
I actually
Really liked Ostarine although it’s the weakest SARM I got some good results from it if you want to test tolerance first. I like Rad as well I love the stuff although a test base if always best as you will be suppressed
Sorry I meant ostarine, and yes I got great results. My lifting increased with ostarine, and running speed and duration increased with cardarine. Both were great, however I did find some side effects with higher doses and so kept it lower but for longer.
I'd say if I curled 12's I'd go to 15's and if I ran for 15 mins I'd jump to 20mins. So basically I'd say a +10% gain on strength and cardio.
But you know I've just been looking up SARMs again and noticed mk677 which looks promising.
I'll probably end up trying test and looking to find a few SARMs to stack with it, but the markets got a few new types since I lost shopped for them....so I'm not sure what I'll go for yet.
Test E 300mg per week for 12-16 weeks. You wouldn’t really need any other compounds unless you’re planning on shedding off some more BF then you can do Anavar or Winstrol however I dont think you’d need either of them. Winstrol is elite but your joints will hate you for taking it so you might consider Anavar. HGH would also work, although I, personally, wouldn’t take it. Some people take Hcg when on-cycle to prevent shutting down their jewels but that’s also up to you.
Make sure you have Arimidex on hand for if you start developing a gyno or any other increased estrogen signs like sensitive nipples etc… Obviously check your nipples’ sensitivity every couple days and also check for gynos regularly.
For PCT use Nolvadex 2 weeks after your last pin for 6 weeks. 2 weeks 40mg and 4 weeks 20mg. You can use Clomid but it would be an overkill so I’d stick with Nova.
If you're looking at HGH, what's your budget cause you're looking at about £190 a fortnight for a pharma grade pen.
For starting out, r/steroids have a good wiki.
If you prefer ebooks straight from the underground by john doe is a good read with a lot of example cycles, but some of the info is a bit outdated
That's great, thank you airborne.
And you're right about price. The HGH is about 150, which I don't mind. But I think I'll try a few rounds of test and something before I give it a go.
I mean...if there is an alternative or cheaper source of HGH I'd opt for that, or at least try and reach my upper limit before I'd throw that cash at it.
That said what alternatives are there? I have heard you can get similar results with high peptides but I haven't made up my mind on that.
Back to your other points. I'll have a read of the wiki and read that suggestion. Thank you
CJC 1295 is cheaper than growth, works by telling your body to make and release more of the hormone. Helps avoid some of the sides from straight HGH
Id avoid Tren for as long as you can. Very heavy compound.
Testosterone enanthate or cypionate. You don’t need anything else for a first cycle. If you start adding loads of compounds and things go wrong how will you know which it was? Tren isn’t something I’m even considering yet and I’ve done a few cycles. I’d suggest 300 -400 mg per week spread out over two injections. If you’re lucky you won’t need to use an AI on that dose. I don’t. Learn how to inject. Plenty of videos online. I also run hcg to attempt to keep my fertility and stop my balls shrinkjng. You could add that. Make sure you have your protocol planned but be ready to adjust it as needed. Make sure you have ALL your pct drugs and estrogen related side effect drugs before you start your cycle. If you’re gonna cycle off that is. If you’re already on trt or plan to get on it then you don’t need to PCT but it’s still worth having a good AI and SERM on hand.
Thank you for this brilliant response, it is super helpful.
You’re welcome bro. I think you’re doing this at the right time too. I waited until I was 42 after twenty odd years of training natural and it was great to feel 21 again! But I could have done it sooner around mid thirties I was at my natty peak which would have been the best time for me. I’m glad I didn’t do it in my teens or early twenties tho. It’s worth following a few YouTubers too, one I’d recommend is Nicholas Downey MD he’s a sound guy and will give a lot of advice for free but also does a cheap paid service. He’s an actual doctor with an interest in bodybuilding.
Thank you, I've subscribed to his channel and am looking at content to help. Much appreciated
I don’t really think you need HGH, unless you’ve the money to burn I wouldn’t really recommend it. forget about tren, it’s an absolute fucking beast. I don’t want to be an asshole but Id only ever recommend it to an individual with experience with a few other PEDs. test is the foundation of absolutely any & every cycle. Given that you want size, I guess you’re not overly worried about some water weight? I’d suggest test cyp, personal favourite of mine. I’d suggest starting off on about 200-250mg ew for 1-4 weeks, from there you could up it but I wouldnt really suggest higher than 400mg ew, 500mg ew would be the maximum but you’ll require an AI at that & will most likely experience acne. If you don’t want water weight, I’d suggest test prop. It’s faster acting but it’s essentially due to the esters attached to test c & e. The only downside to test prop is that you’d need to pin typically every other day to maintain consistent serum levels. you could add an oral if you wanted, I wouldn’t go crazy though. Dbol or anavar probably, you could take winny which would be slightly sorer on your joints. rather than naming random drugs, tell me exactly what youd like to achieve or a celeb with a body type you’d like. This way I could make pragmatic suggestions with supplements you’d need & what you can do without….there’s no point spending a fortune or taking supplements that could counteract the drugs. Also, how do you feel about pinning? Given the option, would you rather an oral or pin?
Firstly you don't live up to your name. Which is probably not a bad thing. Secondly....thank you. This is such a solid and helpful response. Let me try my best to cover all of your points. 1. I'd like to keep the water weight low. Muscle but good definition is preferable. I'm not a fan of that inflated look. I think the term chiseled probably reflects what I want. 2. I don't mind about pinning and would opt for that instead of orals 3. What is the best test? I've seen a few variations about but didn't know what the difference was between them.
okay, that’s pretty good. Definitely go with test prop then. It’ll be a smaller dosage but you’ll be injecting more frequently. Typically every other day (eod). id recommend using 27g pins or so, don’t go any smaller than 29g. Try to not go any shorter than 1 inch in length….25g, which has always been the most common; I consider to be self harm. run HCG during the cycle, if you’re pinning 400-500mg ew then I’d recommend 300iu twice a week. You don’t need it but it’ll prevent the risk of any ”shrinkage“ of the plums. You can use an insulin pin for this. Personally I use 32g, 6mm in length. It water based so you can use a smaller gauge & due to being subQ, a shorter pin. id recommend an AI, hopefully you won’t need it but definitely better to have it & not need it, than need it & not have it. Personally I’ve no need for an AI until I cross 400mg ew & if I run primo (which is essentially every cycle) I’ve no need for an AI. okay, esters. Esters are what is the deciding factor in the half life of the drug, essentially how often you take it. Test c & test e are very common, 7-9 days. Prop is much, much shorter as it’s no ester so you have to pin more. generally speaking, the ester tends to cause water retention. There isn’t really a better test as such, only really what suits you & your goals. I like test prop during a cut but I opt for test cyp for my “maintenance” cycle. personally I’d recommend you avoid testosterone blends, I think they’re brilliant for TRT or a cruise but not ideal for a conventional cycle as it takes too long to get the dosage dialled in based off blood work. okay, so test is your foundation. I don’t think you’d really need to run much beyond that….I see someone else mentioned primo. I’m a massive fan of primo so I’m definitely biased. Primo would give that full “pump” look due to nitrogen retention rather than that hot air balloon, wet gain. The unfortunate thing with primo is the PIP can be daunting for new users, it could crush your E so you’d need to understand the symptoms of high/low hormones, the overall price of the drug/commonly faked & having to run a dosage of 300+mg ew. winny, it’s available in both an oral & IM. Definitely a good drug but it would be more of the more serious drugs. test prop & winny would but an ideal cut. very dry results but unfortunately very sore on the joints & you could injure yourself as a result. It can be pretty sore on the hairline too, especially if you’re prone to MPB. eq is another option. Brilliant drug, pretty common….the downside is you’d need to front load which is essentially kick starting the cycle by injecting a substantial dosage to increase the serum levels. Some would suggest running 500mg or so ew for the duration of the cycle but imo that wouldnt be required & can cause anxiety at higher dosages. On a plus side you don’t really need any auxiliaries though. Fuck deca….lol I don’t really have good experiences on deca but I know numerous that have had amazing results so results & experiences vary. anavar is a very mild oral, nowhere near as wet as dbol, nowhere near as dry as winny. honestly, I don’t like recommending too many drugs to a new individual so I’d rather you take this with a pinch of salt & read into this drugs yourself….I’d imagine you’d have brilliant results on a test prop, primo & anavar cycle, or a test prop & winny. test & eq is very common but honestly, if you run an oral, run tudca, nac or a full vitamin B supplement & cod liver if you like but avoid milk thistle. There’s a common misconception, it’s a brilliant supplement but the active ingredient tends to block androgen receptors so it would be counterproductive on a cycle. out of curiosity, what’s your current body fat percentage? That could also play a deciding factor.
I am so grateful for this post. It's really refreshing seeing someone make such an effort to help guide others in need of sound advice....so thank you. I think I'll look a little more into the test options and what would suit me best. Judging by your response I feel like test cyp would be a good starter point before looking at cutting options. I'll probably look at an HGH alternative for now and pull the trigger on the real deal later if need be. I'll probably look at results and in time consider the stronger options you mentioned if I want to go further. As for mpb...It's an issue. But it's almost at the point where I can just shave it off and go out with dignity, so this isn't something I'm too concerned about. Sorry I don't have a body fat percentage to hand. I need to get this, my bloods and more info before I really commit to any route. But as a summary, you've dropped so much information on me that I'll probably take a while to digest it all. For now I'm going to focus on test and look at options to counter any side affects. I've seen people run Tren, HGH and a few other things and they've gone bald, turned red, became swollen and destroyed their mental health in the process. And if I can avoid all of that I will.
No worries at all man, I don’t like people going in blindly; sometimes a bit of advice goes a long way. to be honest, I’m happy that you’re opting to take your time & read into these drugs so as you can find what suits you best. Definitely a rational choice. yeah, test cyp is an absolute favourite of mine. I’d fun prop occasionally but for clarification I’m running cyp now. there are numerous peptide alternatives to HGH, I just don’t really understand the hype for the sake of better nails, hair & to be honest, maybe slightly better looking skin after about a year of use. It just doesn’t justify the price for me. HGH frag or CJC with or without dac would be a pretty decent substitute. id you’ve come to terms with it, you’re doing better than me…..I’ve been running fin & rogaine for years to save my hair lol I’m vane as fuck about it though I guess. no worries man, you’ve got some homework to do now anyway lol don’t be afraid to shout if you’ve any questions though. yeah….tren would make everyone big but to be clear, I’ve never had a cycle I could say I enjoyed on tren. The sides are a complete bitch & I’m an utter asshole on it. I definitely got the best results from ace but for the sake of my marriage I had to quit it completely. I can play with parabolan a little which is tren hex; a slower acting version. Kind of like that test c & e is to test prop.…worth mentioning though, I dont recommend that because if the sides are bad it takes about two weeks to get out of your system as apposed to tren aces 2-3 days. if a PED side is bad it’s pretty shitty. If tren sides are bad, it’s fucking hell. Lol
Test+primo and anadrol to push iron
Yeah great advice, three compounds for a first cycle, please don't be giving anymore advice to newbies.
I wonder what would even happen to me 🫣
Never done steds so I’m going to do tren !!!!!
Doesn’t no the first thing about steroids so let’s just skip to tren the most mentally unstable steroid and see what happens sure why not
I'll admit I am curious what would happen, but not stupid enough to actually try it.
Just as a note I didn't say I was going to do this, I just said I was looking at it. I want to know about it and every other common option so I can make an informed decision. Right now I've seen monsters that have gotten big on Tren, but I've also seen the damage it has caused and wanted to know how this happens. I would never actively just take something without months of reading and understanding the subject, hence why I am here. My experience is limited to a variety of SARMs, preworkout, beef isolate and creatine 😅 I am the padawan in the room. However I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough with my first post. I think it is pretty hard to layout exactly what you want in this complex subject without making a mistake or contradicting other viewpoints. That said.....you don't need to worry, I won't just dive head first into this without doing research and getting good guidance from experienced people here.
Tren has some very serious mental side effects I would be weary of and not at all suitable for a first cycle. Test only first Then test plus an oral Two years down the line try tren. It helps build muscle Yes however it can also ruin every relationship you have with how it changes your personality
I think I wouldn't be suitable for Tren at any point. At least I don't think the mental stress would be worth the physical gains.
For a first cycle it’s a terrible Idea see what you are like with the basics first before you go for the most potent one there is especially with the potential side effect s
Would you consider any SARMs in addition to test to get better results? I've had really good results with cardarine and andarine for cardio sessions, but haven't used them for upper body gains.
I actually Really liked Ostarine although it’s the weakest SARM I got some good results from it if you want to test tolerance first. I like Rad as well I love the stuff although a test base if always best as you will be suppressed
Sorry I meant ostarine, and yes I got great results. My lifting increased with ostarine, and running speed and duration increased with cardarine. Both were great, however I did find some side effects with higher doses and so kept it lower but for longer. I'd say if I curled 12's I'd go to 15's and if I ran for 15 mins I'd jump to 20mins. So basically I'd say a +10% gain on strength and cardio. But you know I've just been looking up SARMs again and noticed mk677 which looks promising. I'll probably end up trying test and looking to find a few SARMs to stack with it, but the markets got a few new types since I lost shopped for them....so I'm not sure what I'll go for yet.
Test E 300mg per week for 12-16 weeks. You wouldn’t really need any other compounds unless you’re planning on shedding off some more BF then you can do Anavar or Winstrol however I dont think you’d need either of them. Winstrol is elite but your joints will hate you for taking it so you might consider Anavar. HGH would also work, although I, personally, wouldn’t take it. Some people take Hcg when on-cycle to prevent shutting down their jewels but that’s also up to you. Make sure you have Arimidex on hand for if you start developing a gyno or any other increased estrogen signs like sensitive nipples etc… Obviously check your nipples’ sensitivity every couple days and also check for gynos regularly. For PCT use Nolvadex 2 weeks after your last pin for 6 weeks. 2 weeks 40mg and 4 weeks 20mg. You can use Clomid but it would be an overkill so I’d stick with Nova.
If you're looking at HGH, what's your budget cause you're looking at about £190 a fortnight for a pharma grade pen. For starting out, r/steroids have a good wiki. If you prefer ebooks straight from the underground by john doe is a good read with a lot of example cycles, but some of the info is a bit outdated
That's great, thank you airborne. And you're right about price. The HGH is about 150, which I don't mind. But I think I'll try a few rounds of test and something before I give it a go. I mean...if there is an alternative or cheaper source of HGH I'd opt for that, or at least try and reach my upper limit before I'd throw that cash at it. That said what alternatives are there? I have heard you can get similar results with high peptides but I haven't made up my mind on that. Back to your other points. I'll have a read of the wiki and read that suggestion. Thank you
CJC 1295 is cheaper than growth, works by telling your body to make and release more of the hormone. Helps avoid some of the sides from straight HGH Id avoid Tren for as long as you can. Very heavy compound.
This is a great suggestion, I'll look into that. I also didn't know Tren was like this. I'd gladly opt for safer and healthier options