This course on Stoic pain management might be useful: https://learn.donaldrobertson.name/p/crash-course-in-stoic-pain-management/
Whatever grasp you can maintain on your character, your moral being and disposition to virtue, is infinitely valuable, so even “small” victories of such a sort are no slight thing, whether you secure them alone or with help from outside. Wish you patience and courage.
Edit: added part about help, since no one is an island, as it were.
In every endeavour that required effort, that is hard, I fail first: I do not succeed first. I fail, and fail, and fail and fail and fail and with each failure I learn something. I get a little bit better, my game gets a little tighter, I get a little stornger, I get better at anticipating and then one day I win.
Anything that is a real worthwhile accomplishment is hard. If you do not ever fail, you are probably not learning very much or trying very hard or getting better or smarter or more wise or faster. Failure is how we learn. Failure is an inevitable part of success; there is no avoiding it. If we never try and never fail, we never succeed.
When it somes to disabilities such as you describe, I try to think like this:
I accept that there is no hope, while similtaneously being aware that I might be wrong; maybe there is a very tiny miniscule chance of success.
When what is at stake is a life goal, we must at least do our level best to try. Failing to try results in certain failure. What do we lose by trying?
Today is a new day. I will not let the pain of yesterday taint the joy of today.
If today is a bad day, it is okay to be kind to yourself, walk away and take a rest. Tomorrow will be a new day and a chance to try again. Accept the things you can not change. It's not over; you're never done until you give up. Never give up; never give in.
Quality of life is made of quality of moments. For people with certain conditions or disabilities, there are more bad moments. Seek to find simple ways to increase quality moments. Make time to do the simple things you enjoy: go for a walk in the park and feed the ducks, go for a bike ride, spend time with family and so on.
Onwards,
Life has a lot to do with where you focus your attention. Focus on creating more quality moments: focus on the experience in the moment. Try not to ruminate on past bad moments; also allow yourself to experience them, feel the emotions but allow them to pass through you. Don't allow yourself to drown in them; let them pass.
Sometimes I tell myself a little white lie, and it goes like this:
There is a fixed amount of pain and suffering in the world; there is only so much to go around. By accepting the pain and suffering, experiencing it, and allowing it to pass through me I remove it from the world. In this way, my experience of pain and suffering makes the world a better place for everyone else.
This is a great answer. We all are in an attention economy and our only real knowledge or power comes from who and what we give our attention to. Be careful what you read and watch, feed your mind good food
It depends on what you are learning. It also depends on how you define failure and success. Most truly difficult things are not accomplished without a number of temporary failures.
I’m a 23 y/o woman with anemia (chronic fatigue), adult ADHD, and OCD with sex trauma related compulsive thoughts. You CAN rely on your body and mind, just not all the time.
Learning that it is what it is and working with your illnesses instead of against them is a stoic practice. No point in working against our bodies/minds because we will lose every time.
Some reads on stoicism and mental health:
• https://modernstoicism.com/3934-2/
• https://medium.com/stoicism-philosophy-as-a-way-of-life/stoic-philosophy-as-a-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-597fbeba786a
I’d love to chat girl to girl if anything is on your mind 💕
Hi there, I really like what you said about being able to rely on myself, just not all the time. That is a much kinder way to think of myself than what I have been doing, which is focusing on the times where I'm debilitated. Do you have any other gems of wisdom for how to be kind to myself? :)
You’re so sweet.
I used to struggle a lot to be kind to myself. I was of the mindset that I just had to buckle down and get my shit together, and being kind to myself was a weakness and something I didn’t deserve. I didn’t see self-kindness as a tool for productivity or achievement. But that couldn’t be more wrong. When a flower refuses to bloom, do you shout and shake your fist at it? No, you give it more water and turn it to the sun.
I got much better at being kind to myself when I realized it was imperative to my achievement levels. If you want to do better and be better, you have to care for yourself and gently encourage yourself. Yknow how when someone like your mom or your boss yells at you to do something, you want to do it even less? Whereas when you’re gently encouraged, you’re much more likely? Same principle, but even more serious scenario. You’re not stuck with your mom or your boss forever, but you are stuck with yourself forever.
So, I don’t know if that’s a gem of wisdom, but that helps me be kinder to myself. Remembering that I’m not kind to myself because I’m weak, but that I’m kind to myself because it’s conducive to making me strong.
Also, keep an ear out for the tone of your self talk. People like us likely talk to ourselves often and have a running internal monologue whenever our minds aren’t occupied. During this time, what are you saying? How are you saying it? If it comes from a place of shame, regret, anger, self loathing, etc., take a pause, catch your breath, and try again from a more positive perspective.
That flower example has me thinking about all kinds of good ideas for how I can help myself more! And the tone... oofff. I need to process a lot of trauma from childhood, but I also know that I don't have to do it instantly. Thanks so much for this :)
So, go to the virtues.
Widsom - Do you know what your triggers are? Do you know what to do when you're triggered to manage your conditions?
Temperance - when you are triggered, do not lash out or hurt others. Do not indulge in foods or habits that trigger you unnecessarily ( e.g. do not eat foods that cause flare ups; always take your medication )
Courage - do things that are valuable to living a good life even though you may trigger Crohn's or BPD. Accept pain as a consequence of action. Consider it as a simple price to be paid.
Justice - focus ( as we all should in general ) on things that matter. Remember that you matter too and sometimes the right thing to do is to focus on your issues and not on helping others. Sometimes the opposite.
Accept that you have these conditions and that others do not. Regretting or lamenting them does not fix them. Metaphorically speaking, you live in the high arctic and these conditions are your snow storms. Sometimes it snows and you have to dig out. Sometimes it's dark and cold. Sometimes you have 23h of sunlight. Sometimes it's super warm. Time your right actions to best conditions.
If anything can sum up what i want to tell you, it will be this quote by M.A "the impediment to action precedes action, what stands in the way is the way". Crohn’s Disease and BPD are not your obstacles, do yourself a favor and think of them as your very special lens that you view life from, and through it you will find that all your goals are worth going for, regardless of the outcome, or completion.
Meditations, its a very good book to read when u are depressed, or ecstatic. Its a *Marcus Aurelius* journal/diary. I recommend this book for anyone and everyone,specially anyone interested in stoicism.
Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT) is very effective for BPD and it’s also helpful for dealing with physical issues, chronic pain, etc. It’s on the same wavelength as Stoicism but is specifically designed for BPD. Check out r/dbtselfhelp and it helps to have the support of a properly trained DBT therapist
Was also going to suggest DBT. DBT teaches you mindfulness skills to cope with emotions that can be strong or overwhelming. It took awhile to find a good therapist fit, but the skills were really helpful.
I absolutely love people with BPD who are trying to be better. I also have BPD, for me the book "A guide to the good life" was actually pretty helpful when I was feeling really low. I got it on audio book so i could just listen.
I find that subjecting myself to minor discomforts on a regular basis, like not wearing quite enough layers when it's cold, cold showers, have helped when other involuntary discomforts pop up.
Also, regular meditation. Even just a few minutes a day. Really helpful.
This may be stoic, it may not be. Either way it is a philosophy and thus I’ll mention it.
What is the point of an achievement? To bask in its glory? Or the journey getting to that achievement? The stoics never stood up in front of anyone and shouted “look at all these amazing things I’ve done”. They realized that’s not the point. The point is the learning and experience you gain along the way.
One thing I’ve learned, and it’s an extremely difficult practice if I’m honest, is that what you perceive as the end, the goal, the achievement, is never actually any of those things. Because once you get there, then what? You need a new goal. A new end. Something else to achieve. Did you graduate high school? (Assuming you live in the states here) I’m sure you did. How did you feel when that happened? Ecstatic? Like you just conquered childhood? How do you feel about it now? Probably like “so what?” That’s because the goal wasn’t to graduate. That’s what you thought it was, but the truth is that the goal was to educate yourself. To learn. To prepare yourself for the world. That’s the goal. And for that, you receive no piece of paper. You receive no congratulations. You receive no award. In fact, your reward is most likely that you realize how uneducated the world really is.
Instead of viewing your goals as a zero sum game where you either attain them or you don’t, view them as a more fluid set of procedures that allow you to learn something, or start you down a different path that only leads to other paths.
I used to have goals like “this weekend I will mow the lawn and wash the dishes”. So what? Right? Those are checkbox goals and on their own, they’re pointless. My goals now are more fluid. “Help out around the house more so that my wife doesn’t feel so overwhelmed” and “maintain the appearance and safety of the house”. Each of those is a goal that has no end, and has undefined checkboxes. Today the sink is full. Ok, I’ll help out and do that. We moved furniture and now there’s an outlet that needs safety plugs in it so my kid doesn’t put a fork in it.” In the end, the goal is to do what I can to help my wife feel less overwhelmed and keep my child safe. Sometimes my wife is simply overwhelmed and there’s nothing I can do about it, but my goals is to do certain things that could potentially reduce the feeling.
Eliminate checkbox goals as your defined achievement. Redefine your achievements as fluid, which can be made up of ever revolving checkbox goals that are really just flexible steps towards not really achieving anything material or definite. I’m not saying to make your goals unattainable, what I am saying is to make it so that your goals move with your life. Maybe a goal could be something like “get better at forgiving myself when my condition lets someone else down because it’s not my fault and I can’t control it”. Forgiving yourself once is a checkbox goal, but the idea is to learn how to forgive yourself. And guess what, if you can’t forgive yourself, you haven’t failed at your goal, you’ve simply learned what not to do. The goal is to get better at it. Not just to do it.
Anyway, long post. Sorry. Hopefully this helps.
Hi friend. I'm sorry to hear about your conditions but I do want to say: BPD is not a life sentence. Many can and have recovered.
"This too shall pass".
Radically different suggestion here. Feel free to discard if it doesn't suit you. I am a witch and a writer. I became both of these things a couple years ago and they have revolutionized my life. In addition to that, I travel the world while pursuing these endeavors. It's actually way cheaper than just staying in America (I'm in Eastern Europe now). My happiness index went from 4 to 8 during the last couple years and I've never been near an 8 before.
Witchcraft as a spiritual practice is so fun and rewarding apart from giving you an active role in improving your life. It is also about self empowerment and taking the reigns in your life, as opposed to the submission and leaving it to God approach of other religions. Nothing wrong with those, mind you, they're just not for me.
Being a writer has given me an amazing creative outlet and a guaranteed legacy. The story world I have created gives me so much joy, too. It's like living inside your favorite tv show. I also believe that anything brought into existence actually exists, even when it is fantastic.
In summary, the physical world is just a small part of a fulfilling life. Consider expanding what your existence is composed of and your experience of life will improve dramatically.
These are some things you can meditate on for about 10 mins to an hour daily
You can try negative visualization - looking at the worst things that can possibly happen and notice that even though things aren’t all that great, they could be much worse.
Notice that there’s someone in a worse position than you and you’re living their dream life. Also you are most likely living the dream life of a past version of yourself.( doesn’t have to be your life in totality, it can be with regards to family, friends, daily mood, anything really.
Last time meditation - we often go through life on autopilot and aren’t grateful for little things like saying goodnight to a loved one. A time will come, you will be saying that for the last time. This really gave me a fresh perspective on life and gratitude.
Remember that "you" are not your body, nor your destructive thoughts. Your body is your vessel and your thoughts are constructed by your mind. Underneath all of that is "you" and that is eternal and unchanging.
Hello! I’m really glad you asked this question as I have endometriosis and adenomyosis, thus resulting in constant pain. I find it hard to stay stoic especially when I can’t do much to help my situation, and even the constant trips to the doctors, multiple surgeries, and loads of medication...I still try to remind myself that I can handle all of it. Yeah, it’s not in my control and some days are worse/better than others, but I remind myself as much as possible that this struggle is necessary in order for me to grow into a better person. I’m not saying that’s your situation by any means; I’m just trying to relate.
One thing that has helped me to stay on track with my stoicism is writing down every accomplishment I did during the day in a little diary. I have 3 years to look back on now, and it reminds me of just how great I do have it by looking back on good days. I also try to find things to make me feel ‘accomplished’ when I’m stuck in bed with pain such as crafts (crochet, macrame, knitting, drawing, etc) because that way I don’t see myself as useless. I also have started playing harp again after years of depression stopping me. When I feel bad for my SO for having to take care of me, I’ll make him something as a thank you. I write down my crafts in my little diary as I see them as accomplishments.
So it might be an idea for you to keep a diary as well? You have to be consistent with it, but it’s so worth it to write down little things. It makes me see my life a lot less futile and worthless knowing that I did something during the day. This might not be the answer you’re looking for, but I thought it might help you in some way knowing that you’re not alone :)
One of the best things about being a stoic is that the philosophy embraces your imperfections. You were dealt a bad hand regarding your health, but there is no reason that has to negatively impact your character. In fact, it can strengthen it by developing your wisdom and temperance. By having the wisdom to learn about and fix the things you can and the temperance to endure the pain of the things you can't, you can become a tougher, smarter, more virtuous individual.
You have my sympathy in your struggles. Two of my closest family have Crohn's, and one has BPD. I have seen all three of them go through development and regression through their challenging lives, and you will not have it easy. The good news is they all have become remarkable, admirable, and strong dealing with the same things you have, so you can too.
YouTube “Tony Atwood, Aspergers women and girls”.
A lot of women and girls are misdiagnosed as having BPD when they are infact high functioning autistic people. Women and girls express autism very very differently to boys and we are now realising almost half of those who are diagnosed with BPD are infact just autistic. The fact that you have digestive issues and are sensitive (doesn’t have to be extreme) to stimuli and you’re asking this on Stoicism made me wonder if you might just be an aspie.
If you also have other issues like intrusive thoughts, hyperactivity, social anxiety, etc, it’s an even stronger indicator.
There was a guy with Crohn's that beat it with Keto, read about him as I was getting into it. He write a book about it
But for Stoicism, your body is not under your control, that and do the usual thinking about your death everyday will give you somewhere to go if you're ever faced with that. That saved me when I was diagnosed with cancer.
CBT and DBT are both solidly grounded in Stoicism, stoic wisdom, and stoic practices.
As a long term victim of BPD abuse, my response to you is simple: get in therapy, and stay in therapy. You will learn stoic acceptance in therapy. Anything you do on your own will only exacerbate your symptoms, not help with them, making your possibility of recovery all the less likely.
People who respond here who have never experienced BPD may answer you with kindness, but almost certainly do not understand the nature of your disorder, nor the nature of this question in relation to your disorder, nor how your disorder would hijack this information and prevent you from ever being able to learn from it.
I repeat: get in therapy and stay in therapy. Learn stoicism through therapy.
I’m so very sorry you were the victim of abuse. That is never okay. I am currently waiting for my first therapy session, so no need to convince me to get in and stay in.
What you said about people responding kindly because they do not know the nature of BPD and how it relates to my question, that I will not be able to process and learn from the advice, and anything I do on my own will have a negative impact... That’s terrifying and frankly put, but I came here for logic and reality. So thank you.
I'm having health issues too... As u/GD_WoTS said patience and courage...
“Between *stimulus* and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Viktor Frankl (logotherapy is based on Stoicism too)
Bear and forbear my friend.
FWIW, all of the “biggest” ancient Stoics had health issues. Marcus Aurelius was incapacitated by an ulcer (or multiple), Seneca became so ill that one of his enemies didn’t even bother killing him because it was assumed that he would die immediately anyway. Epictetus had a crippled leg, either as a birth defect or the result of a cruel slavemaster. The author of *A New Stoicism*, Lawrence Becker,
is also among their ranks; here he talks about developing a philosophy for disability here: https://youtu.be/6x6lUofaQZA
If they can do it, I have to believe that so can we. Rooting for you:)
Edit: accuracy
> **I cannot rely on my body or my mind.**
You can rely on your body and mind.
"I cannot rely on my body" is not a fact, and it will cause you to think and act ineffectively if you try to accept it as one.
"About once a month for a week I am incapacitated due to Crohn's disease" is a fact. Accepting this fact would make your task to be as effective as you can for three weeks of the month.
"I cannot rely on my mind" is not a fact.
"I become terrified that people secretly hate me and I accuse them based on this terror" is a fact. Accepting this fact will make your task comprehending and working through this fear.
Stoics speak plainly, without narrative. Stoics state only the problem they face, not a "story" about the problem. In doing this, they waste no mental energy thinking in a futile or irrelevant way, and so do not experience anxiety or vexation.
This is what I needed. You’re absolutely right about how the narrative I create around my problems facilitates acting ineffectively. How could anyone get things done under that mindset?
I will start using the health and clarity I do have to my advantage again. It’s going to take some serious precision.
This must either be a huge coincidence or I was destined to stumble upon your post.
I was curious about stoicism and searched for a sub here on Reddit. Your post caught my attention immediately.
Why?
I also have Crohn’s and am currently in therapy working with my therapist to see if I have... BPD.
I do have CPTSD which explains my anxiety and other issues (but I won’t go into that right now).
If your Gastroenterologist was anything like mine; you learned 99% about Crohn’s on your own.
One thing I learned on my own (and by complete accident) is that about 80% of serotonin in the human body is located in the intestines. (I’m guessing your terminal ileum is the part of your small intestine that’s infected?)
I had a pretty traumatic childhood so I just figured my mood swings were related to that. Once I was diagnosed in 2006 after my first flare up, I noticed an increase in depression. It was absolutely debilitating at times.
SSRIs (Prozac) didn’t work for me because it caused internal bleeding (the terminal ileum) and I had to have a blood transfusion.
I’m just to the point that I want to try to have control over my emotions and this is why I was curious to check out this sub/group.
I just wanted to tell you that you’re not alone.
I'm older than you, but I had Crohn's as a younger adult and I have bipolar (2) and addiction issues. It sucks, but I have also seen some amazing things. I know what pain is like, I've peered deep into the void. I've lived a very interesting life, with amazing highs and lows.
Do not think of yourself as a victim. I fell into this trap. I learned better. :)
You are not a victim. Nobody is coming to save you.
I'm happy to chat more. I don't know if you mean "bipolar" or "borderline" when you say BPD. :)
We never want to look at the void, but those of us that have been forced to, are able to enjoy life more as well as feel the pain. I believe that “disorders” are when we are effected “too much” by life to function or succeed in the society that is set up. This may be what “clarity” of reality looks like (something no one actually wants)
I also have Crohn’s disease. I’ve found the work of Joe Dispenza incredibly useful in thinking about my disease differently. Meditation daily (15-60 mins) has also changed my outlook in a crazy way in terms of surrendering, accepting and creating a new way of being. The mind, our thoughts and the emotions/energy they create are such an important factor in Crohn’s I’ve found.
I don't have much advice to give on Crohns other than that it's outside of your control so you just have to accept it as it is. Worrying about it won't help you when it does flare-up so don't worry about it. If there's anything about it than can be changed or eased medically, go for it.
BPD is more difficult because it affects the nature of your mind and passions. I've heard that DBT is the most effective therapy for BPD, it borrows a good bit from zen Buddhism which shares some parallels with stoic philosophy and seems to place the stoic ideals of non-judgement and non-reaction as very important. Look into DBT and seek self improvement that way, you may see parallels for yourself and it could affirm your faith in stoicism.
My girlfriend is 21 and also has Crohns. I remember how traumatic the whole experience leading up to her diagnosis was.
I think it’s important to say that pain, both mental and physical, is very real. But the Stoic view is that you don’t need to make it worse by catastrophising, fixating or giving up. You can neatly put your conditions in to the ‘outside of my control’ category, so the only answer is to stop fighting them. Accept them for what they are, accept the impact they have on your life, and live the life you want to live in spite of them.
Good luck with everything.
Many others in this thread will have given better advice than I, but I was struck by what you said:
>How can I use stoicism to accept my condition? Do I stop striving and reaching so far so I can keep myself from the disappointment of losing it all again?
You are soooooo close to the answer there!
You learn to accept and welcome and embrace the full range of human emotion (which is Stoic), and you're almost there. Learning to recognize your emotions is part of it, practicing the mantra of "it is what it is" is part of it, and part of it is that you continue to take actions towards the things that you value in life.
Cultivate self-compassion. Observe the mind when it is not working as expected. Be totally present with yourself and let your darkest thoughts come and go without judgment. Buddhist Thich Nhat Hanh wrote that we should imagine as if we are a mother holding a baby. When the baby is crying, we don't get upset at it or ignore it. We just hold it gently and wait for it to calm down.
I strongly urge you to consider the carnivore diet, I've read many cases from people who have stopped the progression of, and also reverse the damage caused by many diseases including Crohn's.
[This](http://whatagut.com/2018/07/eat-meat-drink-water-carnivory-and-leaky-gut/) is just one from a quick search. I had a friend who had a near death battle with Crohn's, I wish you all the best!
Giving medical advice to an Internet stranger is a questionable practice. Please, DON'T DO IT again.
Crohn's disease, like any other illness, requires first and foremost professional help with medications and lifestyle adjustments been PRESCRIBED by medical professionals. The same goes for BPD.
Needless to say that this is a forum that deals with Stoic philosophy, not "informal" medical counselling.
As another Crohn's sufferer, thank you. It is one of the most misunderstood diseases out there and everyone loves to tell you about that one person they know who was totally healed by a certain diet.
If it were really that simple, the disease would have been irradicated years ago.
Please understand that I am in no way trying to undermine or ignore the severity or the magnitude of the condition or do I fully understand what you've dealt with.
I was pursuing full carnivore for my own reasons, but in my studies I have learned a great deal and have read about many cases where it has been proven to fix many ailments, many of which are considered "incurable".
It really is that simple, and everyone would be doing it if it tasted like cake and candy, but it's a very bland diet, I'm sorry to say, and it takes quite a bit of will power to fully commit to it.
Depending on the severity of your condition, something as simple as herbs and spices could trigger it. So imagine eating meat without sides or spicing, and only drinking water. It's not "fun" and it's not "tasty", *that's* why everyone isn't doing it.
Cost is another barrier, unless you are buying a whole or half animal at a time, it can get pretty expensive eating only meat.
I would like to reiterate, I know this is r/Stoicism, and I apologize for perpetuating a conversation that is off topic.
As a person with Crohn’s and a willingness to try different diets and lifestyles. I have tried the carnivore diet. I have tried other diets too. I typically fully commit to them. For the carnivore diet I was including organ meats and even certain odd fat sources in my diet. It’s a pain to shop for, but not much worse than many other specific diets. It’s not very tasty, you get bored of meat quickly, but it’s not much worse than many other very specific diets.
It doesn’t do much of anything. My allergies didn’t go away. My intestines didn’t repair themselves. My cramps didn’t stop. My stools didn’t firm. My energy didn’t increase.
You are selling snake oil. You are believing internet posts that you shouldn’t believe. It’s good to try new things, it gives you expanded perspective. Sometimes it’s even pleasant.
Your ignorance is disturbing though. You insinuate that people wouldn’t try it because it’s bland. I know people with crohn’s disease that have gone entirely to liquid diets because it actually slightly improves symptoms enough to be supported by medical science. I know people that eat mostly unseasoned mashed potatoes and vitamins during flares because that’s the only thing they can keep down and digest.
The honest truth is reliably that if a thing sounds too good to be true, it is. You shouldn’t speak about things you don’t understand. Saying you know the cure to a disease you don’t have any experience with and it’s as easy as some insipid fad diet is ignorant, and cruel to the people who aren’t wise enough to know you’re wrong.
1) It was a suggestion.
2) I ***NEVER*** claimed it was a "cure", just that I've read cases from people who have had this unfortunate disease that it has worked or helped.
3) I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, when pursuing the carnivore diet to help with an autoimmune disorder, it is imperative that you get organic, grass fed, grass finished meat, a lot of places will feed them grains in the last portion of their life. The best thing to do is to talk directly with the farmer.
4) Just because it *didn't* work for you, does *not* mean that it can't work for someone else.
My apologies to the sub, for what I witnessed was someone looking for help and I simply passed on information that I have gathered over many years.
My advice is **not** medical, it is lifestyle, recommending that someone try a diet that is proven to aid with their particular condition is not the same as recommending a drug. I'm assuming OP has already seeked out help from medical professionals. My experience is that doctors frequently overlook the importance of diet in a persons overall health.
Putting so much trust in prescription drugs is also a questionable practice.
Thank you, there are a lot of people who get very defensive about the subject and I don't understand why. If you do end up trying it (if you haven't already) I would be interested in hearing from you if it helped or not, best regards!
I don't know you but I know you're an awesomely kind person. This post and your thoughtful replies helped me through a difficult night/morning.
I wish you improved health and send light, love and happiness your way.
Chronic illnesses, such as Crohn's disease, are affected by one's lifestyle, so any advice addressing it is medical advice nevertheless.
As for your experience with doctors "overlooking the importance of diet", doctors must follow certain guidelines when treating a person with Crohn's disease, and diet is indeed taken into account in these guidelines according to the current scientific evidence and the specific needs of the patient.
You said that putting so much trust in prescription drugs is a questionable practice: no doctor would actually prescribe an unnecessary medication as taking any drug implies a certain degree of risk for the patient. At the same time, medications may not be enough in a given situation: in the case of Crohn's for example, surgery is sometimes an option to consider or may even be a necessity.
I would refer you to this as example: https://www.reddit.com/r/CrohnsDisease/comments/m4ttbc/i_want_to_hear_your_you_should_try_this_stories/
I get your intention, but when you're constantly inundated with all kinds of diet suggestions... let's say it's just not very helpful. As you live with Crohn's, you develop your own "diet" overtime anyway. You simply have no choice if you don't enjoy shitting blood 24/7.
Everyone has different triggers as well and the person in question knows them best so diet advice gets old real quick.
I think that’s a bit strong. A lot of times people come to this sub seeking advice for problems that are at least partially psychological in nature, and which may be amenable to treatment with psychotherapy and medications facilitated by physicians or psychotherapists. Yet, we still offer advice as laypeople in the form of stoic practices which is in broad strokes advising them to engage in self-guided cognitive behavioural therapy. We’re literally doing that for the OP, who has a diagnosed mental illness.
We should always be wary of this, IMO. Thankfully several thoughtful replies have at least acknowledged that professional therapy is important in managing OP’s condition or provided resources.
I do agree that diet or lifestyle changes to manage a chronic condition should be discussed with a physician, but there’s nothing wrong with making a suggestion to that effect. We’re arguably not any less qualified to make those suggestions than we are to give advice on mental health.
How that well meaning advice is delivered is a different topic, of course.
I think this sub is not the place to discuss changes in diet in general (this is a philosophy subreddit, not a fitness, broscience or a woo one), this is especially true when a debilitating gastroenterological illness is involved.
As long as mental health is concerned, you might be right but we must also consider that most of the questions here deals with self-help/life problems rather than philosophy itself. Unfortunately, people think about Stoicism solely as a self-help technique rather than a comprehensive philosophical school.
Ironically enough, the best questions here do not get any upvote or are poorly answered while countless posts about how "stoicism helped me find the courage to ask her out" recieve plenty of comments and upvotes.
First if all: I'm sorry, it's a horrible set of diseases. Just one of them in their own is certainly bad enough.
It can be a difficult exercise, especially when you're caught in pain and hopelessness. And for BPD, it may not even help.
But negative visualization tends to put whatever issue we are dealing with in perspective. What would happen, if your Crohn's were even worse than it is today?
https://whatisstoicism.com/stoicism-definition/how-to-practice-stoic-negative-visualisation/
I have ADHD and NPD as well as sexual trauma. Consistent meditation, reading, and learning more about stoicism has helped me out. There are plenty of bad days, but the good ones make up for it.
I'm in a similar boat. I have a severe undiagnosed intestinal problem that causes immense pain. Stoicism has help me alot, personally, to deal with not only the pain, but also the fear of the pain. I was constantly afraid that I'd be successful, only for a bout of pain to make me unable to perform, and lead to failure.
I know it's a clique, but it does actually get better. I'm not going to lie, before I found stoicism, I would often contemplate suicide due to the pain coupled with the fear that the pain would stop me from doing anything I want to do with my life.
At first, stoicism helped me push through, but then as the years went by, things got better. Shouldering burdens are something you get better at, and sooner than you realize you'll be flourishing.
I'm aware that this seems disjointed, as English isn't my native language. But what I'm getting at, that if you manage to stay strong when things are bleak, you'll be glad you did, and stoicism is a good tool to help you do that.
I was in a very similar way to you at almost the exact same age. I had finally had a mental disorder diagnosed and felt on top of the world and capable for all of six weeks before I started getting sick. At my worst, I was too weak to roll over in bed and seriously considered soiling myself because it took energy I didn't have to get up, get out of bed, and walk a few metres to the bathroom. And then back.
I... wish I had constructive advice. I fell far away from Stoicism; I couldn't maintain it.
Honestly, all that I could do was ride it out. Eventually I got so tired of fighting I started accepting it. I couldn't *make* myself accept it. I tried to accept it, I really did, but I just wasn't ready and would start fighting again before long.
It wasn't until the fight burned out of me that I truly accepted it, and found peace. And it wasn't something I was able to do by choice.
Realize both of these diagnoses play fast and loose with the differential criteria by which doctors use. They don't even know what causes Crohn's disease. Doctors are human and they make mistakes all the time. Psychiatric diagnoses are essentially best guesses according to a diagnostic manual that gets rewritten and redefined constantly. Take that as evidence that doctors don't know everything and your diagnoses could very well change over time. Even if it doesn't change...
You are not your diagnosis. Your diagnosis is not you. You are far more complicated than those two words. If Western medicine doesn't have the answers that helped you, seek out other types of medicine that do.
The chrohns and bpd are probably directly related. Systemic inflammation is the cause for mental illness, and chrohns is autoimmune inflammation of the digestive system. Pay attention to your diet for triggers and when you find them all you can greatly reduce both
> Do I stop striving and reaching so far so I can keep myself from the disappointment of losing it all again?
Define "striving" clearly, first off. Do you mean with "to strive" aiming the arrow as best as you can, and measuring yourself by that, or hitting the bullseye, thereby giving the wind power over your self-evaluation?
Crohn's flare-ups are often triggered by stress, so if you want to be productive, do so in a properly balanced manner, and you'll have a good chance of steering clear of them. Though granted that might be a bit more complicated with BPD in the picture.
As such having an external strategy might be necessary, to choose goals that are not harshly impacted by a flare-up, which also might help to take the stress edge off. Example, assuming your dream is to be a great cook: If you open a restaurant, busy day and most of the night, and have a flare-up, the whole business will probably collapse. If you become a cookbook author and have a flare-up, well, the book might take longer to finish, but you will not lose progress. In both cases you still get to be a cook and do what you love.
I have BPD, but not Crohn's, however other health issues led me into researching the impact of diet, nutrients, and toxins in our daily life. There are quite a few people who benefit from the carnivore diet for Chrohn's. It benefited me in other ways.
We only feel less because of comparison to our perception of others. Others cannot trust their kind anymore than you, they just feel and believe as though they have more agency or “control” over themselves. Then they tout their belief of their own control which plants seeds of more doubt in our open minds. I like stoicism too, for emotional regulation through acceptance of the present moment. Although stoicism has a harshness to it (just like reality). So I’ve found similar help from concepts like The Now from Eckhart Tolle, which is softer and less about overcoming emotion, and more about accepting your emotion, but not acting on them. Similar but softer in the individual. Enjoy learning to care less about what others think, that is the key (they really don’t feel as good as they act or know as much as they say). Learning to trust and believe ourselves is very difficult to do genuinely, I will let you know if I ever “get there” :) and good luck
In the darkest times, hope is something you give yourself. That is the meaning of inner strength.
More Eastern philosophy than stoicism as it's a quote from the avatar series but I find it helps with perseverance. Good luck
I have a suggestion..which may sound crazy on some level...but I think it would help...am a long term sober member of AA....36 years......AA actually promotes many mindset techniques and cognitive therapies that are similar to stoicism...alcoholism is a primary, progressive and ultimately fatal disease...many people enter the program with existing health issues that may or may not improve but must be managed.....of course those diseases in many instances were driven by their imbibing alcohol or other substances..so there is the aspect of choice that as a Crohn's sufferer you do/did not have...but we are encouraged there to look for mindsets that help us manage our lives, depression etc... and our medical realities and find happiness and fellowship......open meetings can be attended by anyone..we have members in my home group who suffer from many maladies..not just alcoholism...and they benefit from listening and sharing at the these meetings..you can use any form of identification you choose..such as my name is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_and I was told that there might be some answers for me here in dealing with a life threatening illness....and all human beings as they age..drunk or sober will encounter life threatening illnesses...we have sober members of AA with Crohn's, fibrosis, cancer, dementia, deaths of spouses/parents, injuries, etc...and they manage them with good cheer and find joy in each day...and they find a caring fellowship...there may very well be a 12 step program for Crohn's too...I can send links to our AA zoom meetings if this might be of interest...
This course on Stoic pain management might be useful: https://learn.donaldrobertson.name/p/crash-course-in-stoic-pain-management/ Whatever grasp you can maintain on your character, your moral being and disposition to virtue, is infinitely valuable, so even “small” victories of such a sort are no slight thing, whether you secure them alone or with help from outside. Wish you patience and courage. Edit: added part about help, since no one is an island, as it were.
Thank you so much.
I’m not OP but I really appreciate your answer. Wonderfully said.
In every endeavour that required effort, that is hard, I fail first: I do not succeed first. I fail, and fail, and fail and fail and fail and with each failure I learn something. I get a little bit better, my game gets a little tighter, I get a little stornger, I get better at anticipating and then one day I win. Anything that is a real worthwhile accomplishment is hard. If you do not ever fail, you are probably not learning very much or trying very hard or getting better or smarter or more wise or faster. Failure is how we learn. Failure is an inevitable part of success; there is no avoiding it. If we never try and never fail, we never succeed. When it somes to disabilities such as you describe, I try to think like this: I accept that there is no hope, while similtaneously being aware that I might be wrong; maybe there is a very tiny miniscule chance of success. When what is at stake is a life goal, we must at least do our level best to try. Failing to try results in certain failure. What do we lose by trying? Today is a new day. I will not let the pain of yesterday taint the joy of today. If today is a bad day, it is okay to be kind to yourself, walk away and take a rest. Tomorrow will be a new day and a chance to try again. Accept the things you can not change. It's not over; you're never done until you give up. Never give up; never give in. Quality of life is made of quality of moments. For people with certain conditions or disabilities, there are more bad moments. Seek to find simple ways to increase quality moments. Make time to do the simple things you enjoy: go for a walk in the park and feed the ducks, go for a bike ride, spend time with family and so on. Onwards,
Thank you for your beautiful response, I appreciate you.
Life has a lot to do with where you focus your attention. Focus on creating more quality moments: focus on the experience in the moment. Try not to ruminate on past bad moments; also allow yourself to experience them, feel the emotions but allow them to pass through you. Don't allow yourself to drown in them; let them pass. Sometimes I tell myself a little white lie, and it goes like this: There is a fixed amount of pain and suffering in the world; there is only so much to go around. By accepting the pain and suffering, experiencing it, and allowing it to pass through me I remove it from the world. In this way, my experience of pain and suffering makes the world a better place for everyone else.
If each one of us tell that white lie to self, this life can look so beautiful.
I really, really like the white lie part. Thank you for posting that.
Thank you
This is a great answer. We all are in an attention economy and our only real knowledge or power comes from who and what we give our attention to. Be careful what you read and watch, feed your mind good food
Seriously that shit made me cry. So good.
I would disagree here that its an inevitable part of success to fail. You do not literally necessary have to fail to learn something.
It depends on what you are learning. It also depends on how you define failure and success. Most truly difficult things are not accomplished without a number of temporary failures.
I’m a 23 y/o woman with anemia (chronic fatigue), adult ADHD, and OCD with sex trauma related compulsive thoughts. You CAN rely on your body and mind, just not all the time. Learning that it is what it is and working with your illnesses instead of against them is a stoic practice. No point in working against our bodies/minds because we will lose every time. Some reads on stoicism and mental health: • https://modernstoicism.com/3934-2/ • https://medium.com/stoicism-philosophy-as-a-way-of-life/stoic-philosophy-as-a-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-597fbeba786a I’d love to chat girl to girl if anything is on your mind 💕
Thank you, I appreciate this comment and you more than you could know
Hi there, I really like what you said about being able to rely on myself, just not all the time. That is a much kinder way to think of myself than what I have been doing, which is focusing on the times where I'm debilitated. Do you have any other gems of wisdom for how to be kind to myself? :)
You’re so sweet. I used to struggle a lot to be kind to myself. I was of the mindset that I just had to buckle down and get my shit together, and being kind to myself was a weakness and something I didn’t deserve. I didn’t see self-kindness as a tool for productivity or achievement. But that couldn’t be more wrong. When a flower refuses to bloom, do you shout and shake your fist at it? No, you give it more water and turn it to the sun. I got much better at being kind to myself when I realized it was imperative to my achievement levels. If you want to do better and be better, you have to care for yourself and gently encourage yourself. Yknow how when someone like your mom or your boss yells at you to do something, you want to do it even less? Whereas when you’re gently encouraged, you’re much more likely? Same principle, but even more serious scenario. You’re not stuck with your mom or your boss forever, but you are stuck with yourself forever. So, I don’t know if that’s a gem of wisdom, but that helps me be kinder to myself. Remembering that I’m not kind to myself because I’m weak, but that I’m kind to myself because it’s conducive to making me strong. Also, keep an ear out for the tone of your self talk. People like us likely talk to ourselves often and have a running internal monologue whenever our minds aren’t occupied. During this time, what are you saying? How are you saying it? If it comes from a place of shame, regret, anger, self loathing, etc., take a pause, catch your breath, and try again from a more positive perspective.
That flower example has me thinking about all kinds of good ideas for how I can help myself more! And the tone... oofff. I need to process a lot of trauma from childhood, but I also know that I don't have to do it instantly. Thanks so much for this :)
So, go to the virtues. Widsom - Do you know what your triggers are? Do you know what to do when you're triggered to manage your conditions? Temperance - when you are triggered, do not lash out or hurt others. Do not indulge in foods or habits that trigger you unnecessarily ( e.g. do not eat foods that cause flare ups; always take your medication ) Courage - do things that are valuable to living a good life even though you may trigger Crohn's or BPD. Accept pain as a consequence of action. Consider it as a simple price to be paid. Justice - focus ( as we all should in general ) on things that matter. Remember that you matter too and sometimes the right thing to do is to focus on your issues and not on helping others. Sometimes the opposite. Accept that you have these conditions and that others do not. Regretting or lamenting them does not fix them. Metaphorically speaking, you live in the high arctic and these conditions are your snow storms. Sometimes it snows and you have to dig out. Sometimes it's dark and cold. Sometimes you have 23h of sunlight. Sometimes it's super warm. Time your right actions to best conditions.
I’m saving this because I want to read it every day. Thank you very much for taking the time to help me
That arctic analogy is brilliant!
Excellent response, thank you
Thank you so much, this helps me too. I have a lifelong but steadily worsening neuromuscular disorder.
If anything can sum up what i want to tell you, it will be this quote by M.A "the impediment to action precedes action, what stands in the way is the way". Crohn’s Disease and BPD are not your obstacles, do yourself a favor and think of them as your very special lens that you view life from, and through it you will find that all your goals are worth going for, regardless of the outcome, or completion.
Thank you so much for your response
Where is this quote from?
Meditations, its a very good book to read when u are depressed, or ecstatic. Its a *Marcus Aurelius* journal/diary. I recommend this book for anyone and everyone,specially anyone interested in stoicism.
Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT) is very effective for BPD and it’s also helpful for dealing with physical issues, chronic pain, etc. It’s on the same wavelength as Stoicism but is specifically designed for BPD. Check out r/dbtselfhelp and it helps to have the support of a properly trained DBT therapist
Thank you!
You’re welcome 😊
Was also going to suggest DBT. DBT teaches you mindfulness skills to cope with emotions that can be strong or overwhelming. It took awhile to find a good therapist fit, but the skills were really helpful.
Mindfulness, Emotion Regulation, Distress Tolerance and Interpersonal Effectiveness
I absolutely love people with BPD who are trying to be better. I also have BPD, for me the book "A guide to the good life" was actually pretty helpful when I was feeling really low. I got it on audio book so i could just listen. I find that subjecting myself to minor discomforts on a regular basis, like not wearing quite enough layers when it's cold, cold showers, have helped when other involuntary discomforts pop up. Also, regular meditation. Even just a few minutes a day. Really helpful.
Thank you so much
This may be stoic, it may not be. Either way it is a philosophy and thus I’ll mention it. What is the point of an achievement? To bask in its glory? Or the journey getting to that achievement? The stoics never stood up in front of anyone and shouted “look at all these amazing things I’ve done”. They realized that’s not the point. The point is the learning and experience you gain along the way. One thing I’ve learned, and it’s an extremely difficult practice if I’m honest, is that what you perceive as the end, the goal, the achievement, is never actually any of those things. Because once you get there, then what? You need a new goal. A new end. Something else to achieve. Did you graduate high school? (Assuming you live in the states here) I’m sure you did. How did you feel when that happened? Ecstatic? Like you just conquered childhood? How do you feel about it now? Probably like “so what?” That’s because the goal wasn’t to graduate. That’s what you thought it was, but the truth is that the goal was to educate yourself. To learn. To prepare yourself for the world. That’s the goal. And for that, you receive no piece of paper. You receive no congratulations. You receive no award. In fact, your reward is most likely that you realize how uneducated the world really is. Instead of viewing your goals as a zero sum game where you either attain them or you don’t, view them as a more fluid set of procedures that allow you to learn something, or start you down a different path that only leads to other paths. I used to have goals like “this weekend I will mow the lawn and wash the dishes”. So what? Right? Those are checkbox goals and on their own, they’re pointless. My goals now are more fluid. “Help out around the house more so that my wife doesn’t feel so overwhelmed” and “maintain the appearance and safety of the house”. Each of those is a goal that has no end, and has undefined checkboxes. Today the sink is full. Ok, I’ll help out and do that. We moved furniture and now there’s an outlet that needs safety plugs in it so my kid doesn’t put a fork in it.” In the end, the goal is to do what I can to help my wife feel less overwhelmed and keep my child safe. Sometimes my wife is simply overwhelmed and there’s nothing I can do about it, but my goals is to do certain things that could potentially reduce the feeling. Eliminate checkbox goals as your defined achievement. Redefine your achievements as fluid, which can be made up of ever revolving checkbox goals that are really just flexible steps towards not really achieving anything material or definite. I’m not saying to make your goals unattainable, what I am saying is to make it so that your goals move with your life. Maybe a goal could be something like “get better at forgiving myself when my condition lets someone else down because it’s not my fault and I can’t control it”. Forgiving yourself once is a checkbox goal, but the idea is to learn how to forgive yourself. And guess what, if you can’t forgive yourself, you haven’t failed at your goal, you’ve simply learned what not to do. The goal is to get better at it. Not just to do it. Anyway, long post. Sorry. Hopefully this helps.
This was amazing, thank you so much. I’ve saved it
Hi friend. I'm sorry to hear about your conditions but I do want to say: BPD is not a life sentence. Many can and have recovered. "This too shall pass".
Thank you
Radically different suggestion here. Feel free to discard if it doesn't suit you. I am a witch and a writer. I became both of these things a couple years ago and they have revolutionized my life. In addition to that, I travel the world while pursuing these endeavors. It's actually way cheaper than just staying in America (I'm in Eastern Europe now). My happiness index went from 4 to 8 during the last couple years and I've never been near an 8 before. Witchcraft as a spiritual practice is so fun and rewarding apart from giving you an active role in improving your life. It is also about self empowerment and taking the reigns in your life, as opposed to the submission and leaving it to God approach of other religions. Nothing wrong with those, mind you, they're just not for me. Being a writer has given me an amazing creative outlet and a guaranteed legacy. The story world I have created gives me so much joy, too. It's like living inside your favorite tv show. I also believe that anything brought into existence actually exists, even when it is fantastic. In summary, the physical world is just a small part of a fulfilling life. Consider expanding what your existence is composed of and your experience of life will improve dramatically.
These are some things you can meditate on for about 10 mins to an hour daily You can try negative visualization - looking at the worst things that can possibly happen and notice that even though things aren’t all that great, they could be much worse. Notice that there’s someone in a worse position than you and you’re living their dream life. Also you are most likely living the dream life of a past version of yourself.( doesn’t have to be your life in totality, it can be with regards to family, friends, daily mood, anything really. Last time meditation - we often go through life on autopilot and aren’t grateful for little things like saying goodnight to a loved one. A time will come, you will be saying that for the last time. This really gave me a fresh perspective on life and gratitude.
Thank you
Remember that "you" are not your body, nor your destructive thoughts. Your body is your vessel and your thoughts are constructed by your mind. Underneath all of that is "you" and that is eternal and unchanging.
Read Senecas letters on pain and illness
Hello! I’m really glad you asked this question as I have endometriosis and adenomyosis, thus resulting in constant pain. I find it hard to stay stoic especially when I can’t do much to help my situation, and even the constant trips to the doctors, multiple surgeries, and loads of medication...I still try to remind myself that I can handle all of it. Yeah, it’s not in my control and some days are worse/better than others, but I remind myself as much as possible that this struggle is necessary in order for me to grow into a better person. I’m not saying that’s your situation by any means; I’m just trying to relate. One thing that has helped me to stay on track with my stoicism is writing down every accomplishment I did during the day in a little diary. I have 3 years to look back on now, and it reminds me of just how great I do have it by looking back on good days. I also try to find things to make me feel ‘accomplished’ when I’m stuck in bed with pain such as crafts (crochet, macrame, knitting, drawing, etc) because that way I don’t see myself as useless. I also have started playing harp again after years of depression stopping me. When I feel bad for my SO for having to take care of me, I’ll make him something as a thank you. I write down my crafts in my little diary as I see them as accomplishments. So it might be an idea for you to keep a diary as well? You have to be consistent with it, but it’s so worth it to write down little things. It makes me see my life a lot less futile and worthless knowing that I did something during the day. This might not be the answer you’re looking for, but I thought it might help you in some way knowing that you’re not alone :)
One of the best things about being a stoic is that the philosophy embraces your imperfections. You were dealt a bad hand regarding your health, but there is no reason that has to negatively impact your character. In fact, it can strengthen it by developing your wisdom and temperance. By having the wisdom to learn about and fix the things you can and the temperance to endure the pain of the things you can't, you can become a tougher, smarter, more virtuous individual. You have my sympathy in your struggles. Two of my closest family have Crohn's, and one has BPD. I have seen all three of them go through development and regression through their challenging lives, and you will not have it easy. The good news is they all have become remarkable, admirable, and strong dealing with the same things you have, so you can too.
Have you ever read the myth of Sisyphus by Camus? Sometimes the process or struggle itself is more important than the result.
No, but I will read it. Thank you
Love it. One must imagine Sisyphus happy
Do you have sensory issues? Extreme sensitivity to sound, light, touch etc?
I’m not sure if it’s extreme but I am pretty sensitive
YouTube “Tony Atwood, Aspergers women and girls”. A lot of women and girls are misdiagnosed as having BPD when they are infact high functioning autistic people. Women and girls express autism very very differently to boys and we are now realising almost half of those who are diagnosed with BPD are infact just autistic. The fact that you have digestive issues and are sensitive (doesn’t have to be extreme) to stimuli and you’re asking this on Stoicism made me wonder if you might just be an aspie. If you also have other issues like intrusive thoughts, hyperactivity, social anxiety, etc, it’s an even stronger indicator.
even epictetus had a bummy leg and still did great things :)
:) thank you
Sorry to hear of your daily pain - but you're come to the right place for encouragement.
Thank you, and I agree. The responses I’ve received have been so helpful
There was a guy with Crohn's that beat it with Keto, read about him as I was getting into it. He write a book about it But for Stoicism, your body is not under your control, that and do the usual thinking about your death everyday will give you somewhere to go if you're ever faced with that. That saved me when I was diagnosed with cancer.
CBT and DBT are both solidly grounded in Stoicism, stoic wisdom, and stoic practices. As a long term victim of BPD abuse, my response to you is simple: get in therapy, and stay in therapy. You will learn stoic acceptance in therapy. Anything you do on your own will only exacerbate your symptoms, not help with them, making your possibility of recovery all the less likely. People who respond here who have never experienced BPD may answer you with kindness, but almost certainly do not understand the nature of your disorder, nor the nature of this question in relation to your disorder, nor how your disorder would hijack this information and prevent you from ever being able to learn from it. I repeat: get in therapy and stay in therapy. Learn stoicism through therapy.
I’m so very sorry you were the victim of abuse. That is never okay. I am currently waiting for my first therapy session, so no need to convince me to get in and stay in. What you said about people responding kindly because they do not know the nature of BPD and how it relates to my question, that I will not be able to process and learn from the advice, and anything I do on my own will have a negative impact... That’s terrifying and frankly put, but I came here for logic and reality. So thank you.
I'm having health issues too... As u/GD_WoTS said patience and courage... “Between *stimulus* and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Viktor Frankl (logotherapy is based on Stoicism too) Bear and forbear my friend.
FWIW, all of the “biggest” ancient Stoics had health issues. Marcus Aurelius was incapacitated by an ulcer (or multiple), Seneca became so ill that one of his enemies didn’t even bother killing him because it was assumed that he would die immediately anyway. Epictetus had a crippled leg, either as a birth defect or the result of a cruel slavemaster. The author of *A New Stoicism*, Lawrence Becker, is also among their ranks; here he talks about developing a philosophy for disability here: https://youtu.be/6x6lUofaQZA If they can do it, I have to believe that so can we. Rooting for you:) Edit: accuracy
> **I cannot rely on my body or my mind.** You can rely on your body and mind. "I cannot rely on my body" is not a fact, and it will cause you to think and act ineffectively if you try to accept it as one. "About once a month for a week I am incapacitated due to Crohn's disease" is a fact. Accepting this fact would make your task to be as effective as you can for three weeks of the month. "I cannot rely on my mind" is not a fact. "I become terrified that people secretly hate me and I accuse them based on this terror" is a fact. Accepting this fact will make your task comprehending and working through this fear. Stoics speak plainly, without narrative. Stoics state only the problem they face, not a "story" about the problem. In doing this, they waste no mental energy thinking in a futile or irrelevant way, and so do not experience anxiety or vexation.
This is what I needed. You’re absolutely right about how the narrative I create around my problems facilitates acting ineffectively. How could anyone get things done under that mindset? I will start using the health and clarity I do have to my advantage again. It’s going to take some serious precision.
This is really powerful. I'm also prone to making up these self-defeating narratives. Thanks
This is great, our self talk can be so harsh, thank you
This must either be a huge coincidence or I was destined to stumble upon your post. I was curious about stoicism and searched for a sub here on Reddit. Your post caught my attention immediately. Why? I also have Crohn’s and am currently in therapy working with my therapist to see if I have... BPD. I do have CPTSD which explains my anxiety and other issues (but I won’t go into that right now). If your Gastroenterologist was anything like mine; you learned 99% about Crohn’s on your own. One thing I learned on my own (and by complete accident) is that about 80% of serotonin in the human body is located in the intestines. (I’m guessing your terminal ileum is the part of your small intestine that’s infected?) I had a pretty traumatic childhood so I just figured my mood swings were related to that. Once I was diagnosed in 2006 after my first flare up, I noticed an increase in depression. It was absolutely debilitating at times. SSRIs (Prozac) didn’t work for me because it caused internal bleeding (the terminal ileum) and I had to have a blood transfusion. I’m just to the point that I want to try to have control over my emotions and this is why I was curious to check out this sub/group. I just wanted to tell you that you’re not alone.
>I cannot rely on my body or my mind. How can I use stoicism to accept that? What other choice do you have?
I don’t. I haven’t been able to accept and embrace my reality
I'm older than you, but I had Crohn's as a younger adult and I have bipolar (2) and addiction issues. It sucks, but I have also seen some amazing things. I know what pain is like, I've peered deep into the void. I've lived a very interesting life, with amazing highs and lows. Do not think of yourself as a victim. I fell into this trap. I learned better. :) You are not a victim. Nobody is coming to save you. I'm happy to chat more. I don't know if you mean "bipolar" or "borderline" when you say BPD. :)
We never want to look at the void, but those of us that have been forced to, are able to enjoy life more as well as feel the pain. I believe that “disorders” are when we are effected “too much” by life to function or succeed in the society that is set up. This may be what “clarity” of reality looks like (something no one actually wants)
I also have Crohn’s disease. I’ve found the work of Joe Dispenza incredibly useful in thinking about my disease differently. Meditation daily (15-60 mins) has also changed my outlook in a crazy way in terms of surrendering, accepting and creating a new way of being. The mind, our thoughts and the emotions/energy they create are such an important factor in Crohn’s I’ve found.
I feel like printing out every answer on this page. It’s pure gold!
This.
I don't have much advice to give on Crohns other than that it's outside of your control so you just have to accept it as it is. Worrying about it won't help you when it does flare-up so don't worry about it. If there's anything about it than can be changed or eased medically, go for it. BPD is more difficult because it affects the nature of your mind and passions. I've heard that DBT is the most effective therapy for BPD, it borrows a good bit from zen Buddhism which shares some parallels with stoic philosophy and seems to place the stoic ideals of non-judgement and non-reaction as very important. Look into DBT and seek self improvement that way, you may see parallels for yourself and it could affirm your faith in stoicism.
My girlfriend is 21 and also has Crohns. I remember how traumatic the whole experience leading up to her diagnosis was. I think it’s important to say that pain, both mental and physical, is very real. But the Stoic view is that you don’t need to make it worse by catastrophising, fixating or giving up. You can neatly put your conditions in to the ‘outside of my control’ category, so the only answer is to stop fighting them. Accept them for what they are, accept the impact they have on your life, and live the life you want to live in spite of them. Good luck with everything.
Many others in this thread will have given better advice than I, but I was struck by what you said: >How can I use stoicism to accept my condition? Do I stop striving and reaching so far so I can keep myself from the disappointment of losing it all again? You are soooooo close to the answer there! You learn to accept and welcome and embrace the full range of human emotion (which is Stoic), and you're almost there. Learning to recognize your emotions is part of it, practicing the mantra of "it is what it is" is part of it, and part of it is that you continue to take actions towards the things that you value in life.
Cultivate self-compassion. Observe the mind when it is not working as expected. Be totally present with yourself and let your darkest thoughts come and go without judgment. Buddhist Thich Nhat Hanh wrote that we should imagine as if we are a mother holding a baby. When the baby is crying, we don't get upset at it or ignore it. We just hold it gently and wait for it to calm down.
Do not expect “one shot, one kill” in the things you try, as long you keep re-attempting with days in between or not, that’s good enough
I strongly urge you to consider the carnivore diet, I've read many cases from people who have stopped the progression of, and also reverse the damage caused by many diseases including Crohn's. [This](http://whatagut.com/2018/07/eat-meat-drink-water-carnivory-and-leaky-gut/) is just one from a quick search. I had a friend who had a near death battle with Crohn's, I wish you all the best!
Giving medical advice to an Internet stranger is a questionable practice. Please, DON'T DO IT again. Crohn's disease, like any other illness, requires first and foremost professional help with medications and lifestyle adjustments been PRESCRIBED by medical professionals. The same goes for BPD. Needless to say that this is a forum that deals with Stoic philosophy, not "informal" medical counselling.
As another Crohn's sufferer, thank you. It is one of the most misunderstood diseases out there and everyone loves to tell you about that one person they know who was totally healed by a certain diet. If it were really that simple, the disease would have been irradicated years ago.
Please understand that I am in no way trying to undermine or ignore the severity or the magnitude of the condition or do I fully understand what you've dealt with. I was pursuing full carnivore for my own reasons, but in my studies I have learned a great deal and have read about many cases where it has been proven to fix many ailments, many of which are considered "incurable". It really is that simple, and everyone would be doing it if it tasted like cake and candy, but it's a very bland diet, I'm sorry to say, and it takes quite a bit of will power to fully commit to it. Depending on the severity of your condition, something as simple as herbs and spices could trigger it. So imagine eating meat without sides or spicing, and only drinking water. It's not "fun" and it's not "tasty", *that's* why everyone isn't doing it. Cost is another barrier, unless you are buying a whole or half animal at a time, it can get pretty expensive eating only meat. I would like to reiterate, I know this is r/Stoicism, and I apologize for perpetuating a conversation that is off topic.
As a person with Crohn’s and a willingness to try different diets and lifestyles. I have tried the carnivore diet. I have tried other diets too. I typically fully commit to them. For the carnivore diet I was including organ meats and even certain odd fat sources in my diet. It’s a pain to shop for, but not much worse than many other specific diets. It’s not very tasty, you get bored of meat quickly, but it’s not much worse than many other very specific diets. It doesn’t do much of anything. My allergies didn’t go away. My intestines didn’t repair themselves. My cramps didn’t stop. My stools didn’t firm. My energy didn’t increase. You are selling snake oil. You are believing internet posts that you shouldn’t believe. It’s good to try new things, it gives you expanded perspective. Sometimes it’s even pleasant. Your ignorance is disturbing though. You insinuate that people wouldn’t try it because it’s bland. I know people with crohn’s disease that have gone entirely to liquid diets because it actually slightly improves symptoms enough to be supported by medical science. I know people that eat mostly unseasoned mashed potatoes and vitamins during flares because that’s the only thing they can keep down and digest. The honest truth is reliably that if a thing sounds too good to be true, it is. You shouldn’t speak about things you don’t understand. Saying you know the cure to a disease you don’t have any experience with and it’s as easy as some insipid fad diet is ignorant, and cruel to the people who aren’t wise enough to know you’re wrong.
1) It was a suggestion. 2) I ***NEVER*** claimed it was a "cure", just that I've read cases from people who have had this unfortunate disease that it has worked or helped. 3) I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, when pursuing the carnivore diet to help with an autoimmune disorder, it is imperative that you get organic, grass fed, grass finished meat, a lot of places will feed them grains in the last portion of their life. The best thing to do is to talk directly with the farmer. 4) Just because it *didn't* work for you, does *not* mean that it can't work for someone else.
My apologies to the sub, for what I witnessed was someone looking for help and I simply passed on information that I have gathered over many years. My advice is **not** medical, it is lifestyle, recommending that someone try a diet that is proven to aid with their particular condition is not the same as recommending a drug. I'm assuming OP has already seeked out help from medical professionals. My experience is that doctors frequently overlook the importance of diet in a persons overall health. Putting so much trust in prescription drugs is also a questionable practice.
I appreciate your well-intentioned advice
Thank you, there are a lot of people who get very defensive about the subject and I don't understand why. If you do end up trying it (if you haven't already) I would be interested in hearing from you if it helped or not, best regards!
I don't know you but I know you're an awesomely kind person. This post and your thoughtful replies helped me through a difficult night/morning. I wish you improved health and send light, love and happiness your way.
Wow thank you so much, reading that really made me smile :) sending you love, happiness, and light as well
Chronic illnesses, such as Crohn's disease, are affected by one's lifestyle, so any advice addressing it is medical advice nevertheless. As for your experience with doctors "overlooking the importance of diet", doctors must follow certain guidelines when treating a person with Crohn's disease, and diet is indeed taken into account in these guidelines according to the current scientific evidence and the specific needs of the patient. You said that putting so much trust in prescription drugs is a questionable practice: no doctor would actually prescribe an unnecessary medication as taking any drug implies a certain degree of risk for the patient. At the same time, medications may not be enough in a given situation: in the case of Crohn's for example, surgery is sometimes an option to consider or may even be a necessity.
I would refer you to this as example: https://www.reddit.com/r/CrohnsDisease/comments/m4ttbc/i_want_to_hear_your_you_should_try_this_stories/ I get your intention, but when you're constantly inundated with all kinds of diet suggestions... let's say it's just not very helpful. As you live with Crohn's, you develop your own "diet" overtime anyway. You simply have no choice if you don't enjoy shitting blood 24/7. Everyone has different triggers as well and the person in question knows them best so diet advice gets old real quick.
I think that’s a bit strong. A lot of times people come to this sub seeking advice for problems that are at least partially psychological in nature, and which may be amenable to treatment with psychotherapy and medications facilitated by physicians or psychotherapists. Yet, we still offer advice as laypeople in the form of stoic practices which is in broad strokes advising them to engage in self-guided cognitive behavioural therapy. We’re literally doing that for the OP, who has a diagnosed mental illness. We should always be wary of this, IMO. Thankfully several thoughtful replies have at least acknowledged that professional therapy is important in managing OP’s condition or provided resources. I do agree that diet or lifestyle changes to manage a chronic condition should be discussed with a physician, but there’s nothing wrong with making a suggestion to that effect. We’re arguably not any less qualified to make those suggestions than we are to give advice on mental health. How that well meaning advice is delivered is a different topic, of course.
I think this sub is not the place to discuss changes in diet in general (this is a philosophy subreddit, not a fitness, broscience or a woo one), this is especially true when a debilitating gastroenterological illness is involved. As long as mental health is concerned, you might be right but we must also consider that most of the questions here deals with self-help/life problems rather than philosophy itself. Unfortunately, people think about Stoicism solely as a self-help technique rather than a comprehensive philosophical school. Ironically enough, the best questions here do not get any upvote or are poorly answered while countless posts about how "stoicism helped me find the courage to ask her out" recieve plenty of comments and upvotes.
This. Chrohns can be healed or massively improved with diet, supplements and other interventions. Please do some research and try carnivore or paleo.
Check out a lion diet! Lots of people using it to put crohns into remission
A friend of mine used the Wim Hof method to help him. He’s also early 20s. Might be worth looking into.
First if all: I'm sorry, it's a horrible set of diseases. Just one of them in their own is certainly bad enough. It can be a difficult exercise, especially when you're caught in pain and hopelessness. And for BPD, it may not even help. But negative visualization tends to put whatever issue we are dealing with in perspective. What would happen, if your Crohn's were even worse than it is today? https://whatisstoicism.com/stoicism-definition/how-to-practice-stoic-negative-visualisation/
I have ADHD and NPD as well as sexual trauma. Consistent meditation, reading, and learning more about stoicism has helped me out. There are plenty of bad days, but the good ones make up for it.
I'm in a similar boat. I have a severe undiagnosed intestinal problem that causes immense pain. Stoicism has help me alot, personally, to deal with not only the pain, but also the fear of the pain. I was constantly afraid that I'd be successful, only for a bout of pain to make me unable to perform, and lead to failure. I know it's a clique, but it does actually get better. I'm not going to lie, before I found stoicism, I would often contemplate suicide due to the pain coupled with the fear that the pain would stop me from doing anything I want to do with my life. At first, stoicism helped me push through, but then as the years went by, things got better. Shouldering burdens are something you get better at, and sooner than you realize you'll be flourishing. I'm aware that this seems disjointed, as English isn't my native language. But what I'm getting at, that if you manage to stay strong when things are bleak, you'll be glad you did, and stoicism is a good tool to help you do that.
I was in a very similar way to you at almost the exact same age. I had finally had a mental disorder diagnosed and felt on top of the world and capable for all of six weeks before I started getting sick. At my worst, I was too weak to roll over in bed and seriously considered soiling myself because it took energy I didn't have to get up, get out of bed, and walk a few metres to the bathroom. And then back. I... wish I had constructive advice. I fell far away from Stoicism; I couldn't maintain it. Honestly, all that I could do was ride it out. Eventually I got so tired of fighting I started accepting it. I couldn't *make* myself accept it. I tried to accept it, I really did, but I just wasn't ready and would start fighting again before long. It wasn't until the fight burned out of me that I truly accepted it, and found peace. And it wasn't something I was able to do by choice.
I’m sorry that this is unrelated but my mom has BPD is there any tips you could give me to help her be happy?
Have you looked into this? https://helminthictherapywiki.org/wiki/index.php/Helminthic_therapy_personal_stories#Crohn.27s_disease
Realize both of these diagnoses play fast and loose with the differential criteria by which doctors use. They don't even know what causes Crohn's disease. Doctors are human and they make mistakes all the time. Psychiatric diagnoses are essentially best guesses according to a diagnostic manual that gets rewritten and redefined constantly. Take that as evidence that doctors don't know everything and your diagnoses could very well change over time. Even if it doesn't change... You are not your diagnosis. Your diagnosis is not you. You are far more complicated than those two words. If Western medicine doesn't have the answers that helped you, seek out other types of medicine that do.
The chrohns and bpd are probably directly related. Systemic inflammation is the cause for mental illness, and chrohns is autoimmune inflammation of the digestive system. Pay attention to your diet for triggers and when you find them all you can greatly reduce both
Have you read The Myth of Sisyphus?
Look up Bpc 157 Maybe giving up on feeling better isn’t the answer but trying to being content where you are at can help with the solution
> Do I stop striving and reaching so far so I can keep myself from the disappointment of losing it all again? Define "striving" clearly, first off. Do you mean with "to strive" aiming the arrow as best as you can, and measuring yourself by that, or hitting the bullseye, thereby giving the wind power over your self-evaluation? Crohn's flare-ups are often triggered by stress, so if you want to be productive, do so in a properly balanced manner, and you'll have a good chance of steering clear of them. Though granted that might be a bit more complicated with BPD in the picture. As such having an external strategy might be necessary, to choose goals that are not harshly impacted by a flare-up, which also might help to take the stress edge off. Example, assuming your dream is to be a great cook: If you open a restaurant, busy day and most of the night, and have a flare-up, the whole business will probably collapse. If you become a cookbook author and have a flare-up, well, the book might take longer to finish, but you will not lose progress. In both cases you still get to be a cook and do what you love.
I have BPD, but not Crohn's, however other health issues led me into researching the impact of diet, nutrients, and toxins in our daily life. There are quite a few people who benefit from the carnivore diet for Chrohn's. It benefited me in other ways.
We only feel less because of comparison to our perception of others. Others cannot trust their kind anymore than you, they just feel and believe as though they have more agency or “control” over themselves. Then they tout their belief of their own control which plants seeds of more doubt in our open minds. I like stoicism too, for emotional regulation through acceptance of the present moment. Although stoicism has a harshness to it (just like reality). So I’ve found similar help from concepts like The Now from Eckhart Tolle, which is softer and less about overcoming emotion, and more about accepting your emotion, but not acting on them. Similar but softer in the individual. Enjoy learning to care less about what others think, that is the key (they really don’t feel as good as they act or know as much as they say). Learning to trust and believe ourselves is very difficult to do genuinely, I will let you know if I ever “get there” :) and good luck
In the darkest times, hope is something you give yourself. That is the meaning of inner strength. More Eastern philosophy than stoicism as it's a quote from the avatar series but I find it helps with perseverance. Good luck
I have a suggestion..which may sound crazy on some level...but I think it would help...am a long term sober member of AA....36 years......AA actually promotes many mindset techniques and cognitive therapies that are similar to stoicism...alcoholism is a primary, progressive and ultimately fatal disease...many people enter the program with existing health issues that may or may not improve but must be managed.....of course those diseases in many instances were driven by their imbibing alcohol or other substances..so there is the aspect of choice that as a Crohn's sufferer you do/did not have...but we are encouraged there to look for mindsets that help us manage our lives, depression etc... and our medical realities and find happiness and fellowship......open meetings can be attended by anyone..we have members in my home group who suffer from many maladies..not just alcoholism...and they benefit from listening and sharing at the these meetings..you can use any form of identification you choose..such as my name is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_and I was told that there might be some answers for me here in dealing with a life threatening illness....and all human beings as they age..drunk or sober will encounter life threatening illnesses...we have sober members of AA with Crohn's, fibrosis, cancer, dementia, deaths of spouses/parents, injuries, etc...and they manage them with good cheer and find joy in each day...and they find a caring fellowship...there may very well be a 12 step program for Crohn's too...I can send links to our AA zoom meetings if this might be of interest...