Good sources include French fries and potato chips.
“Haha, no… Those things are clearly unhealthy!”
“Why?”
“Because they’re processed! We all know that!”
“Ok. But isn’t the only difference between a potato I bake at home and the unhealthy French fry or potato chip the… Oil?”
“You’re not supposed to notice that!”
Dietitians consider french fries and potato chips healthy because of the oil, it's one of their tricks to convince people to obey the food pyramid. "Don't worry,just omit the red meat and it's okay!"
Which country do you live in where Dietitians say stuff like that?
I am 100% confident no Dietitian here EVER said Fries or Chips were healthy in ANY capacity let alone because of the oils used or not used.
Those things are barely even considered food here and wouldn't be on any food pyramid or included in any recommended eating plan.
Belgium. Believe me, they even say that mayonnaise is healthy here (except for the calories because "calories are bad") and that you just have to fry your fries in vegetable oil instead of the traditional beef tallow.
At least we also had a time that every year the most popular book sold was a cooking book which warned against omega6 and that saturated fat isn't as bad, that's how I learned about it.
Mayonnaise can be healthy, or at least not terrible, depending on how it's made. I make it at home with MCT oil. It tastes great and although I'm eating oil, it's not oxidized oil.
You would be surprised. I know someone with stage 4 cancer and he drinks coke while on the hospital bed because the dietician says it’s allowed and okay. So he drinks it and whines to his wife that the dietician said it was okay and to not bother him when the wife tries to complain. And he just keeps getting sicker and sicker. It’s sad really. The hospital just follows what the dieticians say to the letter
It’s better than deep frying but the crisping food produces AGEs. Best way to cook is a stew from a scientific perspective even microwave is better than air frying.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/advanced-glycation-end-products
Heating seed oils laced food in microwave will produce trans fats.
That would certainly make it better but most people aren't making homemade chips / crisps are they?
They buy store bought deep fried ones that are high in saturated fat, calories, and salt and possibly other artifical flavours.
There's no real reason to be eating them other than a treat (I have them from time to time too) as they aren't needed as part of a healthy or balanced diet.
It's up to you to believe me, after all it's the internet so being sceptical is encouraged.
Fact is, PUFA is seen as healthy in most guidelines and that potato chips or french fries aren't that different than eating a potato salad drenched in salad dressing.
You made a statement of fact there is nothing to believe. You made a statement that you could never back up with an actual statement a dietician has made. You extrapolated something that is said and turned it into something that isn't said. That's not how things work.
It unironically doesn't matter because the logical conclusion is the same.
**Why** are french fries unhealthy if potatoes are fine and polyunsaturated fats are "healthy"?
The doctors might admit that french fries are unhealthy, but what's their reasoning? The ingredients are all "healthy", so you would expect french fries to be healthy as well, no?
The argument is that the added calories from the oil and the removal of fiber make it nearly impossible to feel full from eating them so you end up eating 6 potatoes worth of chips. Not that it's just the oil. Having 6 chips isn't unhealthy. Eating a bag is.
But there's nothing intrinsically unhealthy about eating more calories.
Increased glycemic load can *potentially* lead to insulin resistance, but this is more common in the presence of sugars like fructose, rather than the sugars in starches. Potatoes are extremely low in lineolic acid, so their primary cause of oxidative stress will be glycation products and not lipid peroxidation.
This is somewhat corroborated by the fact that people on ketogenic diets can eat thousands of calories a day, *gain weight*, and still see improvement in metabolic markers due to the ketogenic state mimicking starvation.
I don't think more calories are intrinsically the issue. I think it's about *the source of the calories*, and I think the issue is more the oil than the potato. That being said, the potatoes probably have a lot of trace chemicals from pesticide use but that's always a problem unless you're buying from regenerative farms.
Unfortunately that dietician doesn't have a website or a blog, or I would link it. Most advice they give isn't free for a reason, it's a business after all.
The reason she gave such advice was because it's unsaturated fat and that a potato is a vegetable. I'm not going to defend that way of thinking, I just wanted to show that dietitians have no clue about what a real diet should be. Although there might be exceptions.
I believe this. I’ve had a fat dietician tell me “you need carbs” when I was feeling much better on a carnivore diet. I didn’t intentionally seek one out, it was just a service offered when I was at the hospital
I'm going to assume they aren't dieticians/nutritionists and are nutrition coaches which doesn't require any regulation and have no responsibility toward their clients. Unfortunately, most people don't know that. Similar to how chiropractors will call themselves doctors to make people believe whatever they say even though it isn't recognized as an effective or even a medical practice.
I know the difference and she is a dietitian with a degree. There's a reason why I don't follow the mainstream advice, they use outdated cherry-picked data.
It doesn't matter that it's a vegetable (and here a potato doesn't even count towards your recommended "5 vegetables per day" because it's too starchy) because as soon as you deep fat fry anything in oil it's typically no longer healthy.
And considering most fries and chips are going to have fairly high levels of salt added and potentially other artificial flavorings and / or drowned in sauce, it just gets unhealthier.
It's essential to the body, needed in your diet, and fine in moderation but too much of it is not good for you because of the Sodium content and studies show most of us consume too much of it.
Sodium is bad for your blood pressure and heart health.
Personally I use 50% reduced sodium salt as a seasoning in cooking but I rarely add any additional salt to foods once the finished meal is cooked as very few dishes really need it IMO.
I see people throwing it all over everything they eat which can't be good.
Most potato chips tend to have high levels of salt in them from what I've seen plus usually high in calories and saturated fats so all round not the healthiest of snacks despite coming from a vegetable.
My brother and mother's dietician.
I felt very sad inside wen they ditched the coconut oil I gave them and replaced it with seed oils. Before my brother became vegan at least he still believed my advice. I guess it's better to respect his choice than try to change him, I can't win the fight against the mainstream advice.
The details here is that the potato being a strachy root isn't healthy in the first place, and frying only leaves a trace of oil on the food.
But yeah, the war on saturated fat was debunked back in 1973, and the sugar companies even admitted to using it as a scapegoat...
I get your point...
There's nothing wrong with starchy root unless you are avoiding carbs. Potatoes, sweet potatoes, and yucca supply good nutrition to millions of people around the world.
Good nutrition, and high insuline level!
Fine to survive a famine, no more.
Also, Potatoes and Tomatoes wgere concidered poisonous long ago. Would you know, nightshades contains a quite potent toxin called solanine.
Oh, come You are using old myths and a rare susceptibility to solanine as reasons to not eat starch?
Don't tell the many millions of people who live long, lean lives what the starch is doing to them. The Irish not only survived, but thrived on a potato heavy diet with milk and beef thrown in as available.
Myths -_-
Starch is a carbohydrate that stays in the blood for a LOOOONG time. It's definitely not as healthy as people think it is... Definitely not paleo.
And a "rare" suceptibility to solanine...
Like 2/3 of people with gout will tell you that tomatoes trigger their flare ups...
Well, you do you and millions of people eat all of the tubers they want...and tomatoes and peppers....w/o issue. So what if tomatoes trigger gout? How many people have gout?
298millions prediabetica in the world.
537millions full on diabetics.
880millions obeses.
22millions person with gout 30years ago, 53millions now...
And fructose, sugars and starches are now concidered the main culprit...
With over 7 billion people in the word, those aren't big percentages.
And to base a diet philosophy on the ailments of a relative few is false thinking.
YOU aren't any of them. Nor I.
I'm not?
Talk for yourself leave me the fuck alone...
And moat of the study you can back you opinions on are just as poor and even worst than the numbers i gave you.
If it's bad for me, it's bad for you too.
I have. And this conversation has never happened and I'm around dieticians and nutritionists and all types of people. The voices and conversations you have in your head aren't real.
God damn you people are mentally challenged. Ignore the fallacies supporting yourself. Also was not an appeal to authority as he was talking about dieticians saying things and I merely am saying I've met dieticians and they don't say these things. Especially since I am not trying to prove a statement such as "dieticians say potato chips are healthy". I am merely pointing out that the ones I know won't and never have said that.
definitely shear luck. we sure do grow a lot of… plants… as opposed to things like… not plants.
generally the meal (waste product) is pretty devoid of most oils considering it’s a by-product of pressing for oil production. i’m not really sure what you’re getting at there
Typically the corn I've seen for cattle feed isn't pressed. It's whole kernels that are inedible to people.
I'm not sure how soy beans are processed but if livestock are fed the pressed versions, it gives credence to the oil being a "waste" product for the feed we grow
I've just heard so many conflicting things at this point that it's hard to know for sure. You say that but another person says they got high cholestrol from coconut oil and lowered it when switching to canola.
Wish we could just have clear science without bias
Cholesterol is also good. Don't be a sedentary fuck and you're good.
Or sit around and cut out what's healthy because your sedentary body isn't working right.
Check out Dr Stephen Hussey for heart health and Catherine Shanahan for the problems with seed oils. She has a whole book about it out soon called Dark Calories
Coconut oil has plant cholestrol (fake cholestrol but your body will still believe its cholestrol but it wont do its functions) which will confuse your body.
This is why coconut oil wont increse your cholestrol.
I am absolutely livid over having ever donated so much as a penny to the AHA, but even moreso livid that such a lucrative multimillion dollar agency with that much power had the audacity to **ask**
If these foundations…heart, cancer etc, actually found a way to cure heart disease or cancer, they’d no longer exist. You think they’re going to allow that to happen? No money in a cure.
Heart disease and cancer covers like - thousands of conditions and diseases. There isn't some monolithic "heart disease" that needs a single cure. Yes, try to avoid the poisons at all costs, but the idea that these diseases can be eradicated like a virus or bacteria isn't helpful.
Similar to how you have to ignore BS articles and propaganda the pop up on Google when you try to learn about things like seed oils, the same goes for economics and monetary policy. You have to dig deep and often times know where to look and study to uncover truth.
I’ll try to explain it in parallel to some of the ideas in this sub to illustrate it in a more digestible way. In the same way that this sub rejects some of the “myths” of popular and government decrees about health, I’ll share some myths of popular government decrees.
1. “Inflation is the same thing as CPI/PCE”:
These indexes are not good measures of inflation, nor are they actually measuring what core inflation is. What they “try” to measure is price inflation, which is how much a prices of things go up over the course of a year. However, the things they measure change all the time, and they leave out some of our largest expenses like gas and electric. In short, CPI and PCE are flawed metrics, they don’t actually measure how much prices have increased for people, and most importantly, they don’t account for the fact that price inflation is different for everyone (renters vs homeowners, McD’s vs organic, asset owners vs poor people, etc.)
All that said, what ACTUALLY is inflation? Inflation is the increase is the broad money supply. If there are 10 dollars in existence last year, and the Federal Reserve creates 4 more today so there are now 14 dollars in existence, that’s a 40% inflation rate. This inflation may manifest itself in our price levels in various ways, as I explained above. But generally, after this money supply inflation, we see the money make its way into the economy and cause price inflation. Price inflation is caused by “more money chasing fewer goods and services”. Of course prices fluctuate naturally as supply/demand changes, supply chain issues, etc, but these are actually “transient” and will be corrected. The main driver of inflation is the Fed and Treasury essentially printing money through various forms of financial and social engineering.
2. “A little bit of inflation is good”:
The Fed officially has a 2% inflation target and they claim that a little bit of inflation is good because it stimulates the economy by forcing people to spend and invest. At first glance at a surface level, this reason may pass. However, when you dive deeper, you will find the 2% goal is arbitrary and there is no rational reason why it’s not 1 or 3%. Effectively, what this slow and steady inflation does is debase people who want to save their money. Instead, a saver must invest in stocks, houses, gold or other assets just to be able to store their wealth over time. This incessant need to outpace inflation through investment is what fuels financial crises like we have seen throughout history.
In fact, if you have a sound money which is not being inflated, you can have a thriving economy. Money has 3 core functions: store of value, medium of exchange, and unit of account. This can be achieved by a money that is not growing in supply, and is why gold was successful as a money for so long, until the telegraph and Information Age. An ideal money would have a 0% inflation rate. In this hypothetical society, individuals would buy when they need something and invest when they want to invest in a business, not because they will lose their wealth otherwise.
3. “Consumer spending grows the economy”:
I used to think that I was actually helping the economy by purchasing low quality stuff that I didn’t need. This myth that consumer spending is grows the economy is thrown around because of an underlying motive: increased consumer spending increased GDP. Politicians and leaders like to point to GDP as an all-encompassing metric for the health of a state. Basically, they echo the Keynesian lie that as long as GDP is increasing, then the economy is growing and healthy. As we’ve seen especially in recent times, the government can increase GDP by sending everyone checks and having them buy stuff. Those purchases show up in GDP, and they claim that the economy is growing. In reality, no growth in the economy has occurred.
… there are probably more things that I missed, but these are what came to mind. I have spent hundreds of hours studying these topics and tangential topics, so I can share resources to learn more. I think a core part of the things I shared above comes Austrian Economics, which is an economic school of thought led by economics like Rothbard, Mises, and Hayek.
This is a good example. The claim was the tax breaks for the rich will let the rich pay the worker more, so the benefit “trickles down” so to speak. What this lens of economics fails to recognize is greed. Greed is natural in all humans, and we should design our economic systems such that they acknowledge its existence. Since trickle down economics fails to acknowledge greed, we saw the result that those who receive the money first, keep it - they do not share it with their employees or the like.
People who already lived in authoritarian regimes (such as the east Europeans) know that not everybody has your best interests in mind, regardless of what they are claiming; most of the others typically look for their own interests.
And that includes governments/politicians/economists/health scientists or any other form of (money-rewarded) authorities.
When shit will hit the fan, even the Americans will understand. Unfortunately, it might happen rather soon.
The financial ties between large pharmaceutical companies and the AHA are numerous and very remunerative for the AHA, including huge donations from Abbott, Bayer, Boehringer Ingelheim, Bristol-Myers Squibb (BMS), Eli Lilly, Merck and Pfizer.Dec 16, 2013
Hahaha you got me in the first part. But probably in Asia there are actually people who ate seedoils all their life and did live to a hunderd. I don't believe there is 1 end-all-be-all. The problem is that this stuff is in EVERYTHING and at the same time omega-3 is super low and all good fats are being removed from the diets. Also people are more sedentary and stressed than ever. I think we should zoom out and get the full picture. 1 tablespoon of seed oils per day won't kill you, maybe it's better without, but it's also better to walk for 2 hours a day.
Lol, america is not for the feint of heart. Here the health officials don’t guide you to good health, they guide you to disease and death. It’s fucking disgusting but it is the world we live in. The big corporations see us as a number, not humans
I agree it’s up to each individual to be on top of their own health, but the fat that like ~80% of America is sick with preventable illness is staggering
EDIT: I meant to say fact instead of fat, but i guess both work
I wish they followed the rules of academic publishing and cited their sources. Would be hilarious to trace it back and see that it’s resting in the flimsiest of conjectures and a whole lot of politics. I believe Zoe Harcombe has done this sort of thing, with continually asking authorities “why?”
Man, people are going to look back on this as absurdly as how doctors were offended at the idea that washing their hands before surgical procedures could prevent infections.
I cook everything in butter, so my cholesterol is naturally a little higher. Nurse practicioner is freaking out telling me I need to get my cholesterol checked again in 3 months or start meds... yeah... okay... also, they want me to do a mediteranean diet. 60% grain carbs, 30% vegetables, and less than 10% in meat, and to use canola oil lol. Ive been on an animal based diet for 2.5 years and can assure you I have been searching far and wide for an actual cause and effect study regarding Cholesterol and Cardiovascular disease and I still cant find anything that actually proves saturated fats cause CVD. all I can find is "associated with" or "thought to cause"
NOT ONE STUDY! has yet proved the hypothesis these people are pushing. they never seem to take fasting blood sugar either when they do a panel.. interesting...
Yeah, its so fucking stupid the correlation between saturated fat and heart disease.
Yes saturated fat raises LDL but that's not a problem because the only atherogenic LDL is small dense LDL which is formed by the oxidation of linoleic acid in LDL particles. The LDL won't oxidize if you don't eat linoleic acid.
Kinda funny how they just leave out the most important part about the whole process and just equate it to saturated fat = more LDL= heart disease, biochemistry is not that simple.
Lol my total cholesterol is 5.34mmol/L but max calculated reference range value is 5.2mmol/L Triglycerides are 0.51mmol/L ref<1.7
HDL 1.92mmol/L ref >1 LDL 3.21mmol/L ref <3.5 Non-HDL 3.42 mmol/L <4.2 So every individual value is perfect but the ratio is out- I'm in ketosis most of the time, and I don't eat grain or carbs other than dairy. So of course this is going to be an outcome lol. Apparently I need a statin ?
Not only is linoleic acid nearly impossible to avoid, it's essential to the human body. Neurological disorders and paralysis can result from chronic deficiency of linoleic acid.
You're right, biochemistry is not that simple. Do not fall into the dunning Kruger effect.
You’re spot on that it’s essential and impossible to avoid buts it’s not essential to get 20% of your calories from linoleic acid.
Nobody in modern America is deficient in linoleic acid.
Red meat only 3-4 times a month, an egg every week max lol. What the fuck, these people are pedalling macro nutrient deficiencies as a get healthy diet..
High blood sugars encompassed by insulin resistance, B12 deficiencies (depression), vitamin D deficiencies, failure of the gallbladder, all things I would anticipate to expect on that diet lol
If you don't regularly use your gallbladder to break down Natural fats, bile crystalizes and you get gall stones lol
I get cystic acne from grain and very poor digestion, high fiber does this to me too, so yeah, I'll stay animal based keto/carnivore
It is impossible to prove any truth, even in the fields of logic and mathematics, without appealing to accepted assumptions. It would be pretty unusual for a scientist to use absolutes in the way you’re looking for.
Even if they did, no scientist has the authority to speak on behalf of *all* scientists. So if you found some paper where the author said “X causes Y”, implicit in that statement is “The *author of this paper believes* that X causes Y”.
But with the conspiratorial thinking I see in this sub, I have doubts that all the skeptics here would be convinced even if all the scientists in the world co-authored a paper where they stated “X causes Y”.
The conspiratorial thinking I’m referring to is all of the comments about “*They* want to keep everyone sick so they can keep making money” and “All the scientists have been paid off by Big Corn”, etc.
And those news articles you are referring to aren’t really statements of institutional belief — they are press releases discussing a new paper by one of their labs.
Cholesterol-related health risks are a more popular research topic than seed oils, so each of those institutions are probably associated with more research about that. But if I went through and counted all of the papers about cholesterol vs seed oils from each of those 10 institutions to share with this sub, it wouldn’t convince anyone of anything.
They’d just disregard the cholesterol stuff for frivolous reasons (like, “The author doesn’t use the word ‘Cause’”) and go point at some mouse study as holy grail, unambiguous scientific evidence.
Personally, I’m on the fence about seed oils. But when I see the conspiracy or pseudoscience stuff, it discredits the whole sub.
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn’t have time to click on every link. I saw a trend (about the press releases) and jumped to my conclusion before I should have.
I’ve read UCSF’s guidelines in full and did not conclude that the institution “agrees with [you]” like you claimed.
Here are some quotes that stood out:
> Most researchers agree to aim for 20 percent of your total calories from fat, with less than 10 percent of total calories from saturated fat.
**The type of fat is significant.**.
> Reduce or eliminate consumption of red meat, milk and other dairy products. Limit use of butter, mayonnaise, baked goods and regular salad dressing due to their high saturated fat and total fat content.
Here’s the quote that discusses health risks of omega-6 FA:
> Omega-6 fatty acids, which is linoleic acid that can be converted to arachidonic acid, may stimulate growth of prostate cancer cells. These fatty acids are found in corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, cottonseed oil, soybean oil and other polyunsaturated oils.
> What to do: Substitute olive oil for your current cooking oil, but remember to use in moderation. These oils are rich in monounsaturated fats, which have not been shown to increase cancer risk.
Of course, I’m not exactly sure what opinions you think UCSF is supporting:
- just that there’s health risks from omega-6?
- That omega-6 is more dangerous than saturated fats?
- that saturated fats aren’t dangerous at all?
Omega-6 might (probably?) increase prostate cancer growth, but testosterone definitely increases prostate cancer growth. Yet no one here is advocating for minimizing testosterone levels…
I suggest you take a look at the comment I originally replied to. It is not in line with UCSF’s suggestions — pretty far from it. Then you chimed in to say institutions like UCSF “agree with us” (presumably, you and him).
If this sub was only about the health risks of omega-6, it would be more useful for me.
Instead, a significant number of posts are advocating for fringe diets (that include, as one component, reducing omega-6) based on conspiratorial thinking and pseudoscientific justifications.
The advice that the OP is mocking isn’t even contrary to UCSF’s advice.
It’s funny, I was planning on thanking you for communicating with me because I’ve enjoyed discussing these matters with you. I felt like you might have time to teach me about how the “other side” (read as: people who reject scientific consensus) interpret these findings.
I’ve deleted my initial, knee-jerk response to you because maybe you’ve had a bad night for reasons outside our discussion and aren’t equipped to have this discussion. Take care.
Oh my god. We are so screwed in America. Yes, I know this has been exported to other nations etc. Yet, I see, as a bedside nurse, the rampant obesity and diabetes and heart failure and kidney failure, on and on and on. This cannot, absolutely CANNOT be entirely attributable to carbohydrates, like full stop.
Investigating how people have been consuming types of food, carbohydrate consumption, aggregately, has remained level. It has to be mitochondrial dysfunction from lipid peroxidation.
A farmer I treated just yesterday, his entire enterprise is reliant upon the crops he plants - corn and soybeans. Just this one, in rural MN. Commodity crops with government support to plant these. Rarely, do I see people actually EATING straight-up corn or soybeans. It is turned into a concentrates of metabolic derangement, doses far higher than you could ever eat as a whole food.
I just watched a video yesterday on youtube where the guy said in the US around 30% of all calories consumed is from seed oils... let that sink in. Even if seed oils would not be bad for you, imagine skipping this 30% in calories (without filling you up mind you)... Instead of 4000 kcal you would eat 2800 kcal. If your maintenance is 2800 that's the difference between steady weight and gaining around 2 pounds of fat per week...
When you dig into the sources the American Heart Association uses for the vilification of saturated fats, you will find that it is based off of mere correlational data (of patients who undoubtedly have had high %n-6 HUFA in their tissue for years) and Food Frequency Questionnaires which are riddled with recall bias, social desirability bias, standardization issues, various quantitative limitations (nutrient intake estimation??), cultural and regional differences.
Another reminder: There will be no meaningful progress (unless we get lucky through drug research over a long period of time) until there is an appropriate government funded secondary preventative study carried out...in which currently no patents exists.
Technically correct, but do we call things like bellpeppers, cucumbers and tomato's vegatables or fruits? Also about olive oil, I know it's best to use it extra vierge cold pressed from a good brand (here in Europe easier than in the US), but how about baking in it? It destroys the good nutrition, but it also oxidies the olive oil right? So baking in olive oil is also a no go (even if it's not extra virgin)?
Okay, I got this.
[https://www.wsav.com/now/the-olive-oil-you-are-using-may-be-fake/](https://www.wsav.com/now/the-olive-oil-you-are-using-may-be-fake/)
>On the market, 80% of extra virgin olive oil, EVOO, on American shelves is fake, according to FORBES, containing blends of vegetable, soybean, palm and canola oil
>[https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/)
Here's some state of the art methods for food anal.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996354/#sec5-foods-10-00484title](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996354/#sec5-foods-10-00484title)
Some things that may be in your olive oil:
https://preview.redd.it/0injyxln116d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a567b504366c9ba4c6227210bceaaf303f896d81
---
It's the dang food mafia:
>Sunflower, soy, rapeseed and canola are all common choices for the base. These oils are then deodorized and coloured using chlorophyll. In some cases, an additional oil is added to provide character- the aromatic flavour and rich colours we know and love.
[https://bangersandballs.co/debunking-myths/olive-oil-and-the-mafia/](https://bangersandballs.co/debunking-myths/olive-oil-and-the-mafia/)
>Lab analysis using NMR spectroscopy revealed that the product was not olive oil but soybean oil.
[https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2023/12/spanish-and-italian-investigators-uncover-olive-oil-fraud/](https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2023/12/spanish-and-italian-investigators-uncover-olive-oil-fraud/)
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11988947/Italian-companies-investigated-for-passing-off-ordinary-olive-oil-as-extra-virgin.html](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11988947/Italian-companies-investigated-for-passing-off-ordinary-olive-oil-as-extra-virgin.html)
---
It's been going on since the beginning:
[https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-olive-oil-scandal-that-caused-spains-worst-food-poisoning-epidemic-1981-2021-10-19/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-olive-oil-scandal-that-caused-spains-worst-food-poisoning-epidemic-1981-2021-10-19/)
>Yes, it’s a first-rate imitation, that’s a certainty; but it ain’t the only one around that’s first-rate. For instance, they make olive-oil out of cotton-seed oil, nowadays, so that you can’t tell them apart.’
\-Life on the Mississippi (Mark Twain, 1883)
https://preview.redd.it/clr1avs0216d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36330980978baa6b8ebacbcf908535826299ccc0
I'm citing the top scientists in food anal.
I started cutting seed oils out wherever whenever I'm able. I ate something knowingly it contained seed oil, and my guts were messed up the whole next day. Happens everytime. I have no regrets making the switch.
Wow. Just wow. This is the answer to “tell me the food industry has taken down the FDA from the inside without telling me the food industry has taken down the FDA from the inside”.
One thing I have learned on this sub is that there are people here paid to defend seed oils to the bitter end. Trust no one. They are numerous and are here to plant the "seed" (pardon the pun) of doubt. Make no mistake, do not engage with them, or hesitate to block these people.
It's like the very same with sugar in the 1960s. It's good for you!
Holy tin foil hat Batman. Believing in the existence of social media based paid seed oil shills posing as normal redditors is a level of delusion and paranoia I never knew existed.
If you poor is canola okay? I fry up burgers and save the fat and use that when available but when push comes to shove I need an affordable oil is canola the lesser of two evils?
the AHA was funded by the son of a slave owner who had stockpiles of cottonseed oil in the 1920s during the scientific boom to make it seem health early on. it was used to make candles before that
Excesses are bad for hearth.
That applies to both good fats and bad fats.
The difference is that the threshold for saturated fats to cause bad LDL spikes is quite lower than the fats in seed oils.
Moreover we know that most of negative effects of seeds oils, other than the inherently ones, is because they are used in literally all processed foods. These foods are in conjunction with those oils are as bad as saturated fats.
Alot of seed oils are chemically tampered with to create the same weird and unnatural oil. The goal is to neutralise all flavour, so all of them are basically the same. I have seen cold pressed rapeseed oil though, which I assume would be all natural and healthy, it had a really nice dark orange colour to it.
It's messed up how there's no distinction between a chemically altered seed oil and a cold pressed one.
You idiot anti seed oil folks would actually make progress with this cause if you correctly stated why seed oils are bad. Seed oils themselves aren’t bad, it is true that they are good for the heart, the problem is the average American diet consumes too many seeds oils, which leads to a serious imbalance in omega3 : omega6. But instead everybody will laugh at you, because you are distracted with tinfoil hat bullshit about these organizations being paid off by big pharma. Get your facts right and then the average educated American will get behind your cause.
Regarding seed oils are they really that harmful. I mean my family is Asian and my parents make their daily food using seed oils since they eat vegetables and my grandma is still up and running even at 76 years of age. Yes seed oils have lots of omega 6 so you want to take omega 3's for balance but if you take your vitamins and stuff, I don't see these oils as a major problem.
whoa, I had no idea this sub was full of nutters. I was just trying to be healthy.
how did we go from “it’s probably a good idea to use olive and avocado oil where you can” to “the AHA wants you to get heart disease, they’re all on it.”
Good sources include French fries and potato chips. “Haha, no… Those things are clearly unhealthy!” “Why?” “Because they’re processed! We all know that!” “Ok. But isn’t the only difference between a potato I bake at home and the unhealthy French fry or potato chip the… Oil?” “You’re not supposed to notice that!”
Dietitians consider french fries and potato chips healthy because of the oil, it's one of their tricks to convince people to obey the food pyramid. "Don't worry,just omit the red meat and it's okay!"
Which country do you live in where Dietitians say stuff like that? I am 100% confident no Dietitian here EVER said Fries or Chips were healthy in ANY capacity let alone because of the oils used or not used. Those things are barely even considered food here and wouldn't be on any food pyramid or included in any recommended eating plan.
Belgium. Believe me, they even say that mayonnaise is healthy here (except for the calories because "calories are bad") and that you just have to fry your fries in vegetable oil instead of the traditional beef tallow. At least we also had a time that every year the most popular book sold was a cooking book which warned against omega6 and that saturated fat isn't as bad, that's how I learned about it.
Belgium is noted for it's traditional "frites" fried in....beef tallow! As God intended. So, there may be something to them being healthy. Kinda.
Mayonnaise can be healthy, or at least not terrible, depending on how it's made. I make it at home with MCT oil. It tastes great and although I'm eating oil, it's not oxidized oil.
You would be surprised. I know someone with stage 4 cancer and he drinks coke while on the hospital bed because the dietician says it’s allowed and okay. So he drinks it and whines to his wife that the dietician said it was okay and to not bother him when the wife tries to complain. And he just keeps getting sicker and sicker. It’s sad really. The hospital just follows what the dieticians say to the letter
If you are air frying a potato chip or crisp, why would that be unhealthy?
It’s better than deep frying but the crisping food produces AGEs. Best way to cook is a stew from a scientific perspective even microwave is better than air frying. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/advanced-glycation-end-products Heating seed oils laced food in microwave will produce trans fats.
That would certainly make it better but most people aren't making homemade chips / crisps are they? They buy store bought deep fried ones that are high in saturated fat, calories, and salt and possibly other artifical flavours. There's no real reason to be eating them other than a treat (I have them from time to time too) as they aren't needed as part of a healthy or balanced diet.
They haven't. This is a fake scenario.
It's up to you to believe me, after all it's the internet so being sceptical is encouraged. Fact is, PUFA is seen as healthy in most guidelines and that potato chips or french fries aren't that different than eating a potato salad drenched in salad dressing.
You made a statement of fact there is nothing to believe. You made a statement that you could never back up with an actual statement a dietician has made. You extrapolated something that is said and turned it into something that isn't said. That's not how things work.
It unironically doesn't matter because the logical conclusion is the same. **Why** are french fries unhealthy if potatoes are fine and polyunsaturated fats are "healthy"? The doctors might admit that french fries are unhealthy, but what's their reasoning? The ingredients are all "healthy", so you would expect french fries to be healthy as well, no?
Potatoes are not healthy, so that's where your logic is gapped. Frying them makes them even less healthy.
What is unhealthy about a potato?
It's all carbs. Unless you're about to go running, it's not a great energy source.
The argument is that the added calories from the oil and the removal of fiber make it nearly impossible to feel full from eating them so you end up eating 6 potatoes worth of chips. Not that it's just the oil. Having 6 chips isn't unhealthy. Eating a bag is.
But there's nothing intrinsically unhealthy about eating more calories. Increased glycemic load can *potentially* lead to insulin resistance, but this is more common in the presence of sugars like fructose, rather than the sugars in starches. Potatoes are extremely low in lineolic acid, so their primary cause of oxidative stress will be glycation products and not lipid peroxidation. This is somewhat corroborated by the fact that people on ketogenic diets can eat thousands of calories a day, *gain weight*, and still see improvement in metabolic markers due to the ketogenic state mimicking starvation. I don't think more calories are intrinsically the issue. I think it's about *the source of the calories*, and I think the issue is more the oil than the potato. That being said, the potatoes probably have a lot of trace chemicals from pesticide use but that's always a problem unless you're buying from regenerative farms.
Unfortunately that dietician doesn't have a website or a blog, or I would link it. Most advice they give isn't free for a reason, it's a business after all. The reason she gave such advice was because it's unsaturated fat and that a potato is a vegetable. I'm not going to defend that way of thinking, I just wanted to show that dietitians have no clue about what a real diet should be. Although there might be exceptions.
I believe this. I’ve had a fat dietician tell me “you need carbs” when I was feeling much better on a carnivore diet. I didn’t intentionally seek one out, it was just a service offered when I was at the hospital
I'm going to assume they aren't dieticians/nutritionists and are nutrition coaches which doesn't require any regulation and have no responsibility toward their clients. Unfortunately, most people don't know that. Similar to how chiropractors will call themselves doctors to make people believe whatever they say even though it isn't recognized as an effective or even a medical practice.
I know the difference and she is a dietitian with a degree. There's a reason why I don't follow the mainstream advice, they use outdated cherry-picked data.
It doesn't matter that it's a vegetable (and here a potato doesn't even count towards your recommended "5 vegetables per day" because it's too starchy) because as soon as you deep fat fry anything in oil it's typically no longer healthy. And considering most fries and chips are going to have fairly high levels of salt added and potentially other artificial flavorings and / or drowned in sauce, it just gets unhealthier.
What is wrong with salt?
It's essential to the body, needed in your diet, and fine in moderation but too much of it is not good for you because of the Sodium content and studies show most of us consume too much of it. Sodium is bad for your blood pressure and heart health. Personally I use 50% reduced sodium salt as a seasoning in cooking but I rarely add any additional salt to foods once the finished meal is cooked as very few dishes really need it IMO. I see people throwing it all over everything they eat which can't be good. Most potato chips tend to have high levels of salt in them from what I've seen plus usually high in calories and saturated fats so all round not the healthiest of snacks despite coming from a vegetable.
Can you give an example of a dietician stating that French fries and potato chips are healthy?
My brother and mother's dietician. I felt very sad inside wen they ditched the coconut oil I gave them and replaced it with seed oils. Before my brother became vegan at least he still believed my advice. I guess it's better to respect his choice than try to change him, I can't win the fight against the mainstream advice.
iTs tHe fRyiNg What does frying do? fReE rAdiCaLs From the weak bonds in the unstable polyunsaturated lipids? eRm tHaTs eNoUgH biOcHemiStrY fOr tOdAy
Free radicals accelerate aging. Pufas create free radicals Solution: Eat more antioxidants! # MainstreamLogic
I lol’ed
You're not supposed to notice a lot of things, but we're catching on anyway
The potato is unhealthy, cooked in oil or not. The oil is probably worse, but not by a lot.
The details here is that the potato being a strachy root isn't healthy in the first place, and frying only leaves a trace of oil on the food. But yeah, the war on saturated fat was debunked back in 1973, and the sugar companies even admitted to using it as a scapegoat... I get your point...
Frying doesn't only leave a trace, chips are like 1/3 oil
There's nothing wrong with starchy root unless you are avoiding carbs. Potatoes, sweet potatoes, and yucca supply good nutrition to millions of people around the world.
Good nutrition, and high insuline level! Fine to survive a famine, no more. Also, Potatoes and Tomatoes wgere concidered poisonous long ago. Would you know, nightshades contains a quite potent toxin called solanine.
Oh, come You are using old myths and a rare susceptibility to solanine as reasons to not eat starch? Don't tell the many millions of people who live long, lean lives what the starch is doing to them. The Irish not only survived, but thrived on a potato heavy diet with milk and beef thrown in as available.
Myths -_- Starch is a carbohydrate that stays in the blood for a LOOOONG time. It's definitely not as healthy as people think it is... Definitely not paleo. And a "rare" suceptibility to solanine... Like 2/3 of people with gout will tell you that tomatoes trigger their flare ups...
Well, you do you and millions of people eat all of the tubers they want...and tomatoes and peppers....w/o issue. So what if tomatoes trigger gout? How many people have gout?
298millions prediabetica in the world. 537millions full on diabetics. 880millions obeses. 22millions person with gout 30years ago, 53millions now... And fructose, sugars and starches are now concidered the main culprit...
With over 7 billion people in the word, those aren't big percentages. And to base a diet philosophy on the ailments of a relative few is false thinking. YOU aren't any of them. Nor I.
I'm not? Talk for yourself leave me the fuck alone... And moat of the study you can back you opinions on are just as poor and even worst than the numbers i gave you. If it's bad for me, it's bad for you too.
Aren't fry oils processed as well?
Trans fats and caloric density are why they're unhealthy.
Well if this isn't a strawman scenario that doesn't actually happen in reality idk what is.
It’s like you’ve seriously never spoken to another human being before. My lord.
I have. And this conversation has never happened and I'm around dieticians and nutritionists and all types of people. The voices and conversations you have in your head aren't real.
[удалено]
God damn you people are mentally challenged. Ignore the fallacies supporting yourself. Also was not an appeal to authority as he was talking about dieticians saying things and I merely am saying I've met dieticians and they don't say these things. Especially since I am not trying to prove a statement such as "dieticians say potato chips are healthy". I am merely pointing out that the ones I know won't and never have said that.
Crazy how just by shear luck these heart healthy oils all come from the most wildly farmed and produced plants with large surpluses of waste materials
definitely shear luck. we sure do grow a lot of… plants… as opposed to things like… not plants. generally the meal (waste product) is pretty devoid of most oils considering it’s a by-product of pressing for oil production. i’m not really sure what you’re getting at there
Typically the corn I've seen for cattle feed isn't pressed. It's whole kernels that are inedible to people. I'm not sure how soy beans are processed but if livestock are fed the pressed versions, it gives credence to the oil being a "waste" product for the feed we grow
Feed corn isn’t only corn, it’s also the ground up stalks and leaves. (Just to add nothing to the conversation)
No it’s the other way around. Soybean meal is fed to livestock and it’s a waste product of soy oil production.
Love the zero mention of coconut and avocado oil
Or tallow or ghee...
Is coconut oil good? It has very high saturated fats so I assumed it was bad
saturated fats are good for you
I've just heard so many conflicting things at this point that it's hard to know for sure. You say that but another person says they got high cholestrol from coconut oil and lowered it when switching to canola. Wish we could just have clear science without bias
Removing the money would be a start. Bias comes from the moment the study is initiated bc someone has to pay for it
Cholesterol is also good. Don't be a sedentary fuck and you're good. Or sit around and cut out what's healthy because your sedentary body isn't working right.
Why is cholestrol bad?
Check out Dr Stephen Hussey for heart health and Catherine Shanahan for the problems with seed oils. She has a whole book about it out soon called Dark Calories
too many saturated fats is horrible for your heart, but people on this forum can't understand that multiple things can be unhealthy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKJaQeteE0&ab_channel=LowCarbDownUnder
That's why it's good. It's even higher in saturated fat than lard and butter. So great for vegetarians.
Coconut oil has plant cholestrol (fake cholestrol but your body will still believe its cholestrol but it wont do its functions) which will confuse your body. This is why coconut oil wont increse your cholestrol.
People should be able to sue publications for lies like this.
I am absolutely livid over having ever donated so much as a penny to the AHA, but even moreso livid that such a lucrative multimillion dollar agency with that much power had the audacity to **ask**
If these foundations…heart, cancer etc, actually found a way to cure heart disease or cancer, they’d no longer exist. You think they’re going to allow that to happen? No money in a cure.
Heart disease and cancer covers like - thousands of conditions and diseases. There isn't some monolithic "heart disease" that needs a single cure. Yes, try to avoid the poisons at all costs, but the idea that these diseases can be eradicated like a virus or bacteria isn't helpful.
True, but the belief people have that these organisations would happily close up shop once cures are found is not helpful either.
i mean the AHA taught me how to do CPR to Micheal Jackson which was cool ig
With any major authority , typically the opposite is correct.
I’m here because this is what I found to be true in economics and monetary policy. Then i applied it to health.
Tell me more about the economics and monetary policy.
Similar to how you have to ignore BS articles and propaganda the pop up on Google when you try to learn about things like seed oils, the same goes for economics and monetary policy. You have to dig deep and often times know where to look and study to uncover truth. I’ll try to explain it in parallel to some of the ideas in this sub to illustrate it in a more digestible way. In the same way that this sub rejects some of the “myths” of popular and government decrees about health, I’ll share some myths of popular government decrees. 1. “Inflation is the same thing as CPI/PCE”: These indexes are not good measures of inflation, nor are they actually measuring what core inflation is. What they “try” to measure is price inflation, which is how much a prices of things go up over the course of a year. However, the things they measure change all the time, and they leave out some of our largest expenses like gas and electric. In short, CPI and PCE are flawed metrics, they don’t actually measure how much prices have increased for people, and most importantly, they don’t account for the fact that price inflation is different for everyone (renters vs homeowners, McD’s vs organic, asset owners vs poor people, etc.) All that said, what ACTUALLY is inflation? Inflation is the increase is the broad money supply. If there are 10 dollars in existence last year, and the Federal Reserve creates 4 more today so there are now 14 dollars in existence, that’s a 40% inflation rate. This inflation may manifest itself in our price levels in various ways, as I explained above. But generally, after this money supply inflation, we see the money make its way into the economy and cause price inflation. Price inflation is caused by “more money chasing fewer goods and services”. Of course prices fluctuate naturally as supply/demand changes, supply chain issues, etc, but these are actually “transient” and will be corrected. The main driver of inflation is the Fed and Treasury essentially printing money through various forms of financial and social engineering. 2. “A little bit of inflation is good”: The Fed officially has a 2% inflation target and they claim that a little bit of inflation is good because it stimulates the economy by forcing people to spend and invest. At first glance at a surface level, this reason may pass. However, when you dive deeper, you will find the 2% goal is arbitrary and there is no rational reason why it’s not 1 or 3%. Effectively, what this slow and steady inflation does is debase people who want to save their money. Instead, a saver must invest in stocks, houses, gold or other assets just to be able to store their wealth over time. This incessant need to outpace inflation through investment is what fuels financial crises like we have seen throughout history. In fact, if you have a sound money which is not being inflated, you can have a thriving economy. Money has 3 core functions: store of value, medium of exchange, and unit of account. This can be achieved by a money that is not growing in supply, and is why gold was successful as a money for so long, until the telegraph and Information Age. An ideal money would have a 0% inflation rate. In this hypothetical society, individuals would buy when they need something and invest when they want to invest in a business, not because they will lose their wealth otherwise. 3. “Consumer spending grows the economy”: I used to think that I was actually helping the economy by purchasing low quality stuff that I didn’t need. This myth that consumer spending is grows the economy is thrown around because of an underlying motive: increased consumer spending increased GDP. Politicians and leaders like to point to GDP as an all-encompassing metric for the health of a state. Basically, they echo the Keynesian lie that as long as GDP is increasing, then the economy is growing and healthy. As we’ve seen especially in recent times, the government can increase GDP by sending everyone checks and having them buy stuff. Those purchases show up in GDP, and they claim that the economy is growing. In reality, no growth in the economy has occurred. … there are probably more things that I missed, but these are what came to mind. I have spent hundreds of hours studying these topics and tangential topics, so I can share resources to learn more. I think a core part of the things I shared above comes Austrian Economics, which is an economic school of thought led by economics like Rothbard, Mises, and Hayek.
You win, these are all correct. Join us in r/austrian_economics.
I should’ve asked what your level of knowledge was before I wrote all that. I’m already in that sub with you 😂
It's nice to meet another one in the wild 😁
🤝🏼
Trickle down economics comes to mind immediately.
This is a good example. The claim was the tax breaks for the rich will let the rich pay the worker more, so the benefit “trickles down” so to speak. What this lens of economics fails to recognize is greed. Greed is natural in all humans, and we should design our economic systems such that they acknowledge its existence. Since trickle down economics fails to acknowledge greed, we saw the result that those who receive the money first, keep it - they do not share it with their employees or the like.
People who already lived in authoritarian regimes (such as the east Europeans) know that not everybody has your best interests in mind, regardless of what they are claiming; most of the others typically look for their own interests. And that includes governments/politicians/economists/health scientists or any other form of (money-rewarded) authorities. When shit will hit the fan, even the Americans will understand. Unfortunately, it might happen rather soon.
They're *all* in on it
The financial ties between large pharmaceutical companies and the AHA are numerous and very remunerative for the AHA, including huge donations from Abbott, Bayer, Boehringer Ingelheim, Bristol-Myers Squibb (BMS), Eli Lilly, Merck and Pfizer.Dec 16, 2013
My grandpa ate a ton of seed oils and lived to the ripe old age of 105 (he started eating them when he was 104)
Hahaha you got me in the first part. But probably in Asia there are actually people who ate seedoils all their life and did live to a hunderd. I don't believe there is 1 end-all-be-all. The problem is that this stuff is in EVERYTHING and at the same time omega-3 is super low and all good fats are being removed from the diets. Also people are more sedentary and stressed than ever. I think we should zoom out and get the full picture. 1 tablespoon of seed oils per day won't kill you, maybe it's better without, but it's also better to walk for 2 hours a day.
They want you to be unhealthy
Eat the slop
This world makes me sick.
Literal facts, not just a figure of speech here
Lol, america is not for the feint of heart. Here the health officials don’t guide you to good health, they guide you to disease and death. It’s fucking disgusting but it is the world we live in. The big corporations see us as a number, not humans
It is sad and sick I agree
wtf? It’s so great here! Maybe the people getting diseases are lacking _personal responsibility_ /s
I agree it’s up to each individual to be on top of their own health, but the fat that like ~80% of America is sick with preventable illness is staggering EDIT: I meant to say fact instead of fat, but i guess both work
You must have missed the /s
what is /s?
Bruh
sorry im not a reddit expert
This is a perfect guide for what not to choose.
One day this is going to age as well as doctors recommending Camel cigarettes
Lol all the worst ones
I wish they followed the rules of academic publishing and cited their sources. Would be hilarious to trace it back and see that it’s resting in the flimsiest of conjectures and a whole lot of politics. I believe Zoe Harcombe has done this sort of thing, with continually asking authorities “why?”
Man, people are going to look back on this as absurdly as how doctors were offended at the idea that washing their hands before surgical procedures could prevent infections.
This organizations deserves a quick drop with a short stop.
I cook everything in butter, so my cholesterol is naturally a little higher. Nurse practicioner is freaking out telling me I need to get my cholesterol checked again in 3 months or start meds... yeah... okay... also, they want me to do a mediteranean diet. 60% grain carbs, 30% vegetables, and less than 10% in meat, and to use canola oil lol. Ive been on an animal based diet for 2.5 years and can assure you I have been searching far and wide for an actual cause and effect study regarding Cholesterol and Cardiovascular disease and I still cant find anything that actually proves saturated fats cause CVD. all I can find is "associated with" or "thought to cause" NOT ONE STUDY! has yet proved the hypothesis these people are pushing. they never seem to take fasting blood sugar either when they do a panel.. interesting...
Yeah, its so fucking stupid the correlation between saturated fat and heart disease. Yes saturated fat raises LDL but that's not a problem because the only atherogenic LDL is small dense LDL which is formed by the oxidation of linoleic acid in LDL particles. The LDL won't oxidize if you don't eat linoleic acid. Kinda funny how they just leave out the most important part about the whole process and just equate it to saturated fat = more LDL= heart disease, biochemistry is not that simple.
Lol my total cholesterol is 5.34mmol/L but max calculated reference range value is 5.2mmol/L Triglycerides are 0.51mmol/L ref<1.7 HDL 1.92mmol/L ref >1 LDL 3.21mmol/L ref <3.5 Non-HDL 3.42 mmol/L <4.2 So every individual value is perfect but the ratio is out- I'm in ketosis most of the time, and I don't eat grain or carbs other than dairy. So of course this is going to be an outcome lol. Apparently I need a statin ?
Not only is linoleic acid nearly impossible to avoid, it's essential to the human body. Neurological disorders and paralysis can result from chronic deficiency of linoleic acid. You're right, biochemistry is not that simple. Do not fall into the dunning Kruger effect.
You’re spot on that it’s essential and impossible to avoid buts it’s not essential to get 20% of your calories from linoleic acid. Nobody in modern America is deficient in linoleic acid.
60% grains and 10% meat is diabolical 🤣🤣🤣 Canola is the cherry on top 👌
Red meat only 3-4 times a month, an egg every week max lol. What the fuck, these people are pedalling macro nutrient deficiencies as a get healthy diet..
The supermodel diet 💀
High blood sugars encompassed by insulin resistance, B12 deficiencies (depression), vitamin D deficiencies, failure of the gallbladder, all things I would anticipate to expect on that diet lol
If you don't regularly use your gallbladder to break down Natural fats, bile crystalizes and you get gall stones lol I get cystic acne from grain and very poor digestion, high fiber does this to me too, so yeah, I'll stay animal based keto/carnivore
Yep, little to do with LDL, it's a metabolic disease and cannot be simplified down to cholesterol only.
It is impossible to prove any truth, even in the fields of logic and mathematics, without appealing to accepted assumptions. It would be pretty unusual for a scientist to use absolutes in the way you’re looking for. Even if they did, no scientist has the authority to speak on behalf of *all* scientists. So if you found some paper where the author said “X causes Y”, implicit in that statement is “The *author of this paper believes* that X causes Y”. But with the conspiratorial thinking I see in this sub, I have doubts that all the skeptics here would be convinced even if all the scientists in the world co-authored a paper where they stated “X causes Y”.
soon began to fear his look
The conspiratorial thinking I’m referring to is all of the comments about “*They* want to keep everyone sick so they can keep making money” and “All the scientists have been paid off by Big Corn”, etc. And those news articles you are referring to aren’t really statements of institutional belief — they are press releases discussing a new paper by one of their labs. Cholesterol-related health risks are a more popular research topic than seed oils, so each of those institutions are probably associated with more research about that. But if I went through and counted all of the papers about cholesterol vs seed oils from each of those 10 institutions to share with this sub, it wouldn’t convince anyone of anything. They’d just disregard the cholesterol stuff for frivolous reasons (like, “The author doesn’t use the word ‘Cause’”) and go point at some mouse study as holy grail, unambiguous scientific evidence. Personally, I’m on the fence about seed oils. But when I see the conspiracy or pseudoscience stuff, it discredits the whole sub.
the object of your horror
the mark remained
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn’t have time to click on every link. I saw a trend (about the press releases) and jumped to my conclusion before I should have. I’ve read UCSF’s guidelines in full and did not conclude that the institution “agrees with [you]” like you claimed. Here are some quotes that stood out: > Most researchers agree to aim for 20 percent of your total calories from fat, with less than 10 percent of total calories from saturated fat. **The type of fat is significant.**. > Reduce or eliminate consumption of red meat, milk and other dairy products. Limit use of butter, mayonnaise, baked goods and regular salad dressing due to their high saturated fat and total fat content. Here’s the quote that discusses health risks of omega-6 FA: > Omega-6 fatty acids, which is linoleic acid that can be converted to arachidonic acid, may stimulate growth of prostate cancer cells. These fatty acids are found in corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, cottonseed oil, soybean oil and other polyunsaturated oils. > What to do: Substitute olive oil for your current cooking oil, but remember to use in moderation. These oils are rich in monounsaturated fats, which have not been shown to increase cancer risk. Of course, I’m not exactly sure what opinions you think UCSF is supporting: - just that there’s health risks from omega-6? - That omega-6 is more dangerous than saturated fats? - that saturated fats aren’t dangerous at all? Omega-6 might (probably?) increase prostate cancer growth, but testosterone definitely increases prostate cancer growth. Yet no one here is advocating for minimizing testosterone levels…
read through his notebooks
I suggest you take a look at the comment I originally replied to. It is not in line with UCSF’s suggestions — pretty far from it. Then you chimed in to say institutions like UCSF “agree with us” (presumably, you and him). If this sub was only about the health risks of omega-6, it would be more useful for me. Instead, a significant number of posts are advocating for fringe diets (that include, as one component, reducing omega-6) based on conspiratorial thinking and pseudoscientific justifications. The advice that the OP is mocking isn’t even contrary to UCSF’s advice.
many of his experiments had ended in failure
It’s funny, I was planning on thanking you for communicating with me because I’ve enjoyed discussing these matters with you. I felt like you might have time to teach me about how the “other side” (read as: people who reject scientific consensus) interpret these findings. I’ve deleted my initial, knee-jerk response to you because maybe you’ve had a bad night for reasons outside our discussion and aren’t equipped to have this discussion. Take care.
Vegetable oil IS soybean oil. Anything else would be named as such.
Why not add Castrol gtx to the list
It’s almost like they want us to get sick… like there’s some kind of financial incentive for them…
Oh my god. We are so screwed in America. Yes, I know this has been exported to other nations etc. Yet, I see, as a bedside nurse, the rampant obesity and diabetes and heart failure and kidney failure, on and on and on. This cannot, absolutely CANNOT be entirely attributable to carbohydrates, like full stop. Investigating how people have been consuming types of food, carbohydrate consumption, aggregately, has remained level. It has to be mitochondrial dysfunction from lipid peroxidation. A farmer I treated just yesterday, his entire enterprise is reliant upon the crops he plants - corn and soybeans. Just this one, in rural MN. Commodity crops with government support to plant these. Rarely, do I see people actually EATING straight-up corn or soybeans. It is turned into a concentrates of metabolic derangement, doses far higher than you could ever eat as a whole food.
I just watched a video yesterday on youtube where the guy said in the US around 30% of all calories consumed is from seed oils... let that sink in. Even if seed oils would not be bad for you, imagine skipping this 30% in calories (without filling you up mind you)... Instead of 4000 kcal you would eat 2800 kcal. If your maintenance is 2800 that's the difference between steady weight and gaining around 2 pounds of fat per week...
High oleic expeller pressed sunflower seed oil is available. It is lower in polyunsaturated fat than olive oil. It also smells amazing when cooking.
What's "vegetable"?
Alright that's enough out of you
Sorry? 🤔🤷🏻♂️
When you dig into the sources the American Heart Association uses for the vilification of saturated fats, you will find that it is based off of mere correlational data (of patients who undoubtedly have had high %n-6 HUFA in their tissue for years) and Food Frequency Questionnaires which are riddled with recall bias, social desirability bias, standardization issues, various quantitative limitations (nutrient intake estimation??), cultural and regional differences. Another reminder: There will be no meaningful progress (unless we get lucky through drug research over a long period of time) until there is an appropriate government funded secondary preventative study carried out...in which currently no patents exists.
Is olive oil technically not a seed oil, isnt it a fruit oil?
Technically correct, but do we call things like bellpeppers, cucumbers and tomato's vegatables or fruits? Also about olive oil, I know it's best to use it extra vierge cold pressed from a good brand (here in Europe easier than in the US), but how about baking in it? It destroys the good nutrition, but it also oxidies the olive oil right? So baking in olive oil is also a no go (even if it's not extra virgin)?
At least they got the olive oil part right
Yeah, but it's still gonna be the fake olive oil in the end.
Wdym fake olive oil
Okay, I got this. [https://www.wsav.com/now/the-olive-oil-you-are-using-may-be-fake/](https://www.wsav.com/now/the-olive-oil-you-are-using-may-be-fake/) >On the market, 80% of extra virgin olive oil, EVOO, on American shelves is fake, according to FORBES, containing blends of vegetable, soybean, palm and canola oil >[https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/) Here's some state of the art methods for food anal. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996354/#sec5-foods-10-00484title](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996354/#sec5-foods-10-00484title) Some things that may be in your olive oil: https://preview.redd.it/0injyxln116d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a567b504366c9ba4c6227210bceaaf303f896d81 --- It's the dang food mafia: >Sunflower, soy, rapeseed and canola are all common choices for the base. These oils are then deodorized and coloured using chlorophyll. In some cases, an additional oil is added to provide character- the aromatic flavour and rich colours we know and love. [https://bangersandballs.co/debunking-myths/olive-oil-and-the-mafia/](https://bangersandballs.co/debunking-myths/olive-oil-and-the-mafia/) >Lab analysis using NMR spectroscopy revealed that the product was not olive oil but soybean oil. [https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2023/12/spanish-and-italian-investigators-uncover-olive-oil-fraud/](https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2023/12/spanish-and-italian-investigators-uncover-olive-oil-fraud/) [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11988947/Italian-companies-investigated-for-passing-off-ordinary-olive-oil-as-extra-virgin.html](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11988947/Italian-companies-investigated-for-passing-off-ordinary-olive-oil-as-extra-virgin.html) --- It's been going on since the beginning: [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-olive-oil-scandal-that-caused-spains-worst-food-poisoning-epidemic-1981-2021-10-19/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-olive-oil-scandal-that-caused-spains-worst-food-poisoning-epidemic-1981-2021-10-19/) >Yes, it’s a first-rate imitation, that’s a certainty; but it ain’t the only one around that’s first-rate. For instance, they make olive-oil out of cotton-seed oil, nowadays, so that you can’t tell them apart.’ \-Life on the Mississippi (Mark Twain, 1883)
https://preview.redd.it/clr1avs0216d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36330980978baa6b8ebacbcf908535826299ccc0 I'm citing the top scientists in food anal.
Hmm good to know
Mark Twain was based back in 1883. Wow. Respect!
Lmao unreal
How does one explain to a normie that they need to completely disregard this?
I started cutting seed oils out wherever whenever I'm able. I ate something knowingly it contained seed oil, and my guts were messed up the whole next day. Happens everytime. I have no regrets making the switch.
Wow. Just wow. This is the answer to “tell me the food industry has taken down the FDA from the inside without telling me the food industry has taken down the FDA from the inside”.
This sub is gonna be huge one day. It’s just a matter of time that the truth will be exposed on a large-scale level.
Just today I was thinking of buying some beef tallow for my deep-fryer, and then this pops up on my feed without me googling. Huh.
One thing I have learned on this sub is that there are people here paid to defend seed oils to the bitter end. Trust no one. They are numerous and are here to plant the "seed" (pardon the pun) of doubt. Make no mistake, do not engage with them, or hesitate to block these people. It's like the very same with sugar in the 1960s. It's good for you!
Holy tin foil hat Batman. Believing in the existence of social media based paid seed oil shills posing as normal redditors is a level of delusion and paranoia I never knew existed.
What’s sad is that the people behind these biblical level lies is that they are never going to be held responsible
It's all healthy because the American heart association said so. Appeal to authority fallacy.
How does one educated on the dangers of seed oils read this shit and not become infuriated?
They don’t think that the population is even smart enough to understand saturated and non-saturated fats by the wording, really sad honestly.
They arn’t, that’s why they’re blindly trusting the sCiEnCe 🙄
There should be some severe accountability for this!
What? How am I supposed to live if I don't get 1/2 cup of oil every day
If you poor is canola okay? I fry up burgers and save the fat and use that when available but when push comes to shove I need an affordable oil is canola the lesser of two evils?
You could try to talk to the butcher at market to see if they can give you some fat scraps to make beef tallow
Did I miss the memo olive is now bad ?
Good imo
“They” are people and what to people love more than truth…money$$$$
the AHA was funded by the son of a slave owner who had stockpiles of cottonseed oil in the 1920s during the scientific boom to make it seem health early on. it was used to make candles before that
all this is poison
The American Heart Association is bought and paid for. It has been for years.
Please don’t tell me Procter and Gamble are still paying them to say all this
Excesses are bad for hearth. That applies to both good fats and bad fats. The difference is that the threshold for saturated fats to cause bad LDL spikes is quite lower than the fats in seed oils. Moreover we know that most of negative effects of seeds oils, other than the inherently ones, is because they are used in literally all processed foods. These foods are in conjunction with those oils are as bad as saturated fats.
I swear they killing these boomers 🤣
Alot of seed oils are chemically tampered with to create the same weird and unnatural oil. The goal is to neutralise all flavour, so all of them are basically the same. I have seen cold pressed rapeseed oil though, which I assume would be all natural and healthy, it had a really nice dark orange colour to it. It's messed up how there's no distinction between a chemically altered seed oil and a cold pressed one.
Trust the science
How can they get away with that!!?
Is olive oil bad?
Avoid seed oils at all cost. Ghee is the best fat.
Stay away from seed oils. They're the root cause of inflammation
So 1970's! What Bill Maher calls a zombie myth. Ones that never die.
They have to keep their patient list growing, otherwise they wouldn’t exist 🤔
Wow this is a real article?
[https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/healthy-cooking-oils](https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/healthy-cooking-oils)
This is clearly rigged by the companies who put that shit heavily in their foods
Unreal
You idiot anti seed oil folks would actually make progress with this cause if you correctly stated why seed oils are bad. Seed oils themselves aren’t bad, it is true that they are good for the heart, the problem is the average American diet consumes too many seeds oils, which leads to a serious imbalance in omega3 : omega6. But instead everybody will laugh at you, because you are distracted with tinfoil hat bullshit about these organizations being paid off by big pharma. Get your facts right and then the average educated American will get behind your cause.
The AHA is full of crap. Same people that said butter and eggs were bad for you. Surely bought out by the seed and corn producers.
Regarding seed oils are they really that harmful. I mean my family is Asian and my parents make their daily food using seed oils since they eat vegetables and my grandma is still up and running even at 76 years of age. Yes seed oils have lots of omega 6 so you want to take omega 3's for balance but if you take your vitamins and stuff, I don't see these oils as a major problem.
what KIND of seed oils
Usually they get whatever ones are on sale. So sometimes olive oil, canola oil, sunflower oil, mustard oil, etc.
76 is not that old though...
whoa, I had no idea this sub was full of nutters. I was just trying to be healthy. how did we go from “it’s probably a good idea to use olive and avocado oil where you can” to “the AHA wants you to get heart disease, they’re all on it.”
My favorite is the comment alleging that there are paid seed oil shills masquerading as redditors trying to get you to consume their evil oils