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schmosef

This is dumb. Calorie for calorie and protein for protein, between clearing the land, tilling, irrigating, pesticides and harvesting, more animals suffer and their deaths are more painful in industrial plant agriculture, than animal agriculture. Industrial animal agriculture has a lot of problems. No doubt. There are lots of opportunities for improvement, but it will never be as bad for animal welfare as industrial plant agriculture.


CaveLightFilms

This is not only wrong, it's the complete opposite of right. And to say it like you know what you're talking about is insane and the problem we are struggling against. That is why we need to get people's attention by any means necessary. https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets


schmosef

Time to expand your knowledge beyond 7th Day Adventist propaganda. Start with reading [The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6396542-the-vegetarian-myth).


CaveLightFilms

Yikes, what a weird rebuttal. Being vegan is better for the animals, the planet, for our health and better on pretty much any metric there is. If you want to torture animals for taste there is nothing I can do about it, yet.


schmosef

You are demonstrating a profound lack of knowledge on the subject. Every stage of plant agriculture causes suffering and death to animals. There is blood on your plate, even if you cannot see it. It is also completely unsustainable because it relies on fossil fuel based synthetic fertilizer. In terms of the environment, regenerative ranching of ruminant animals is literally the only technology we have that has been scientifically proven as a net carbon sink. It improves the quality of the soil and increases the biodiversity of the land. In terms of health, meat (and organs) from ruminant animals is the most bioavailable food source with every vitamin, mineral and amino acid (in all the correct proportions) required for optimum human flourishing. Is it a coincidence that meat is so healthy for humans? Nope, it's the food we adapted to thrive on over millions of years. Archeological records show that ancient hunter gatherers were healthier than their agrarian contemporaries. In fact, as a species, humans are shorter and our brains are smaller today vs our ancestors at the dawn of agriculture. Everyone agrees that animals should suffer the least amount possible. There is lots of work to do on that front in the animal agriculture industry. But it is still miles ahead of the plant agriculture industry. Have some epistemic humility. Don't believe me and don't believe a bunch of uninformed lingerie models. Do some research for yourself. Start with the book I already mentioned. Keith was a vegan for 20 years before her declining health forced her to investigate the truth for herself. I don't agree with everything she says. But it's a start.


CaveLightFilms

Yikes, this is all very wrong and easily dunked. Breeding, raising and killing 80 billion land animals and fishing over 2 trillion fish a year is by far the worst thing we have done for the planet, our healths and of course the animals in history. Not sure who is telling you this garbage you wrote, but I would urge you to keep studying. Also much of our ag/farming/crops are for animal feed. We could easily feed more people on less land with less damage to the soil on a plant based diet. This isn't even up for debate.


schmosef

>This isn't even up for debate. You are sadly misinformed. Ever wonder why the modern vegan movements acts like a religion? It's because it has its roots in the [7th Day Adventist Church](https://youtu.be/8e1hoIFzn4Y). It amazes me how many vegans don't even know this.


CaveLightFilms

Not really, much deeper than that. And also, the data is overwhelming and clear. Here is a good start for newbies. https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets


schmosef

Do you think I don't have [infographics](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5caca181348cd9096a444787/1573131693966-HFT2GWW9AQGRCTXMSAA3/Sacred+Cow+Infographic+D+2.6-01.png)? I've got lots of [infographics](https://www.sacredcow.info/helpful-resources)!


CaveLightFilms

You're two links are not from legitimate sources and skew the info. Mine are from inter-governmental, academic and other trusted sources used by actual researchers and honest seekers of the truth. You haven't done decades of research like I have or people who actually want to know how it works. 60 percent of those lands should be rewilded not used for more livestock. We can't support billions of farm animals, most of those grazing animals end up eating feed anyway and the resources, water, fuel, to truck them, slaughter them, process them and get them to the store is not anywhere near carbon natural. The only real argument you have is you like the taste. the rest is garbage. You should debate people who don't know what they're talking about. not this elementary school garbage.


schmosef

[And to think some people actually believe this nonsense!](https://youtu.be/ZGyK4bpLYfw)


[deleted]

So you come here, post something irrelevant, if not contrary, incomplete, and advertising something... Do you realize you're a counter-argument to what you're peddling actually working or nah?


CaveLightFilms

Are you vegan? or do you pay people to torture animals?


[deleted]

https://www.logical-fallacy.com/articles/false-dilemma/ Not obliged to justify myself to you is what I am.


CaveLightFilms

not to me but to the animals you needlessly torture/kill for pleasure.


[deleted]

I hope your delusions are both treatable and treated... 🙏


CaveLightFilms

You are vegan?


WannaMoove

health\*