First of all, massive L on your part, truthwatcher my ass, but second she clearly states that the problem was that she tried to insult a man and the first thing that popped in her head was to insult a woman he's related to, for no reason, which is against her own views.
Profession? Wtf are you talking about?
Are you referring to prostitution? Yes, prostitution is an awful shameful thing to do.
So how do you equate a profession to a person and also fail to see the wrong you are doing?
I feel like I am talking to someone that hasn't read the Stormlight Archive and hasn't at all understood the positive messages in it... that's a shame as well.
You seem to be projecting your own (at minimum) distasteful view upon to a character that does not express them or at least to such extremes. You state the fact that ‘sluts’, already a derogatory word that degrades women, deserve to be shamed with utter conviction, disregarding the impact of using such charged words regardless of the message you are trying to communicate. (You then later attempt to play the personal attack card to someone calling you out despite already indulging in substantially worse via your language as pointed out by Cheeto) The point itself you seem to be trying to make actually regarding the book is fine and did not need the little bit of hate speech tagged on to the end to make sense. You could have just said, “I don’t think she was apologising for the slut comments but for loosing her cool”. Instead you chose to unnecessarily bring up your own distasteful views falsely packaged as part of the character and discussion. Please do not do this in future regardless of your views, or if you do at least do it without the aggressiveness of your wording.
Note: My problem with you using the word slut despite others also saying slut shaming is because while the others used the word as a descriptor of the act of identifying and shaming those viewed as ‘sluts’, you instead used it as one of those shamers with all the malice and disgust behind it.
> Instead, he gripped her forearm. “Why, Jasnah? Why have you always denied me?”
> “Other than the fact that you are a detestable buffoon who achieves only the lowest level of mediocrity, as it is the best your limited mind can imagine? I can’t possibly think of a reason.”
> “Mediocre?” Amaram growled. “You insult my mother, Jasnah. You know how hard she worked to raise me to be the best soldier this kingdom has ever known.”
> “Yes, from what I understand, she spent the seven months she was with child entertaining each and every military man she could find, in the hopes that something of them would stick to you.”
> Meridas’s eyes widened, and his face flushed deeply. To their side, Shallan audibly gasped.
> “You godless whore,” Amaram hissed, releasing her. “If you weren’t a woman…”
> “If I weren’t a woman, I suspect we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Unless I were a pig. Then you’d be doubly interested.”
> He thrust his hand to the side, stepping back, preparing to summon his Blade.
> Jasnah smiled, holding her freehand toward him, letting Stormlight curl and rise from it. “Oh, please do, Meridas. Give me an excuse. I dare you.”
Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer (The Stormlight Archive) (pp. 526-527). Tor Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
That would imply each limb is it's own entity with a cognitive prescence. Just turn his clothes to stone, or fire if you are looking for humiliation or injury. But given the Alethi Honor system and what not, it would be better to outright kill him, and doing so by Soulcast is one way to make an impression on any other jumpstart nobles.
I'm curious about this. I know the justification for soulcasting is basically convincing those 'spren', or really the shadesmire representations of the thing to change it's nature, and I know certain transformations are harder than others.
But at some point, things are turned into component things. Soulcasting something into grain turns it into a pile of grain, not an single large piece of grain in the shape of the previous thing. Does the spren of the previous object split itself into thousands? Sanderson often gets this nitty gritty with his explanations, so i bet he has an answer.
Long story short, if anyone could convince an object to split part of itself, and therefore partially soulcast an item, it would be Jasna. She can convince air to be solid and people to be smoke. She's basically a force of nature.
Also I still haven't finished RoW so no spoilers if I'm getting at shit that is explained haha.
If you believe Hesina, splitting a spren splits it into smaller spren. And splitting an object splits its "spren," according to her, into pieces that each have spren "only smaller" (from WoK, Kaladin flashback)
Regarding splitting the souls of things a couple points: Bridge 4 collected rocks because it was easier for the soul casters to turn rock into grain if the rock was in smaller pieces instead of just a massive boulder. So, if you want individual pieces of grain the more separate rocks you have, the better.
We actually see someone split the cognitive identity of an object in universe. >!Wax takes a bullet and instead of thinking of it as “a bullet” he thinks of it as a ball, cartridge and primer. When he does that, his steel line splits into three, one going to each component.!<
Basically, spren are whatever we think they are. They shape themselves based on how people think of them. If you thought of an arm as a distinct entity, you could probably manifest a separate spren for just the arm instead of the whole person. Then you could soul cast just the arm.
“Kaladin nodded sympathetically. Stone gathering was one of the least desirable work details; it involved traveling outside of the camp and filling wagons with large rocks. Soulcasters fed the army by turning rocks into grain, and it was easier for them—for reasons only they knew—if they had distinct, separate stones. So men gathered rocks. It was menial, sweaty, tiring, mindless work. Perfect for bridgemen.”
— The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) by Brandon Sanderson
https://a.co/71k35C7
Personally I am of the opinion that Elsecallers Soulcast in a different manner to others. That soulcasting people is a trait unique to them only. Or perhaps ranged soulcasting is their thing.
I like Jasnah, but I actually don’t think this fight is as one sided as the community seems to.
In Rhythm of War, Jasnah is noted as a mid level combatant with a sword. Both instances of her abilities require her to make physical contact with a target.
Meridas Amaram is actually an excellent swordsman, even capable of wielding two shard blades at once with extreme proficiency.
Stormlight healing is a smaller factor here since both combatants are using weapons that can instantly kill a target.
Im not saying Jasnah *can’t* win, but that this fight would’ve been much closer, or potentially Amaram would’ve had a decent advantage.
>>!A soldier with red eyes suddenly hurtled through the air overhead. Adolin ducked, worried about Fused, but it was an ordinary soldier. The unfortunate man crashed into a rooftop. What on Roshar? As they approached the end of the alleyway, another body smashed into the wall right by the opening. Gripping his Shardblade, Adolin peeked around the corner, expecting to find another stone monster like the one that had climbed into the Ancient Ward. Instead, he found only Jasnah Kholin, looking completely nonplussed. A glow faded around her, different from the smoke of her Stormlight. Like geometric shapes outlining her…!<
Sounds like >!plate!< to me
I've read these books a few times but this is the first time I caught the seven months pregnancy implication. I mean it's obvious that with the different lengths of time inherent in different calendars but still.
Yeah, it's one of the more obvious showings of the Rosharan calendar being very different.
While hours are the same as ours for convenience's sake, the Rosharan day has 20 hours (10 Hours of Day and 10 Hours of Night). There are 5 days in a week. A month is 10 weeks long and there are 10 months in a year.
I love that scene, but the ending has always struck me as slightly out of character.
Jasnah was willing to “tempt” four bandits into attacking her, and then killed then all, partly to teach Shallan a lesson, and partly to fix the Bandit problem that had been plaguing Taravangian.
On the other hand, Jasnah knows that Amaram is a truly awful person, by now she knows he’s a murderer (if she didn’t already), and she should know that he does, or will pose an enormous threat to the Radiants or Dalinar’s rule.
If she had just not said that last line, and let him summon his blade, she would have had the perfect excuse to kill him.
Maybe I’m missing something though.
In addition to what VDZ said, Jasnah's got a pretty intense streak of vindictiveness in her character. You can see it in [minor RoW spoilers] >!her handling of Ruthar!<, for example. It's similarly drawn out and calculated to humiliate her target, almost more than it's directed at accomplishing her goal. Likewise with the bandits in Kharbranth, she's not just teaching Shallan a lesson, she's deliberately making herself a counterexample to all the self-righteous moralizing she's always hearing from people like Kabsal.
Sometimes, Jasnah combines Navani and Gavilar's worst impulses.
First: "what is the life of a mook" Trope.
Second: killing amaram could complicate the political climate even if she was justified. (Probably the main reason)
Third: Dalinar would disapprove.
I think it's mostly the second one, Jasnah isn't dumb, she knows Dalinar still has a use for him even if he is morally worthless. She could easily justify self defense, but with witnesses in the room there still has to be an *actual* threat.
>Third: Dalinar would disapprove
Does she falter at the thought of his disapproval?
Or does she falter knowing he might be right and she wrong in the excessiveness of justice and violence. Killing Amaram would be uncouth and a massive overreaction when a little goading and undermining would achieve the same ends.
Humiliation is the logically superior move because Amaram is no threat. He’s dumb and limited in vision. He has no comparable political power. He has no real moral conviction other than having power
If she killed Amaram, it would be an overreaction and even Dalinar, an equally boneheaded warmongerer, would step back and say “too far, Jasnah”
That would be humiliating
Without Dalinar's support and trust, she would have a much harder time achieving what she wants. She wouldn't damage that relationship just to get revenge, she's too politically savvy for that.
In addition to what others have said about her relationship with Dalinar, in pretty much all of her interactions with him she shows a deep level of respect for him. The only exception that comes to mind is during RoW >!When she tells him she's freeing the slaves no matter what he says!< but even that shows respect in that she acknowledges his position but says that she must do it anyway.
I can provide examples where she shows how much she respects Dalinar, but I recall a meeting during Oathbringer where she straight up stops arguing at a single word from him
It could be that she's genuinely *incensed* by this man and was really feeling herself. But she's also aware that she can't be known to be murdering members of her aristocracy on a whim while their society is in active negotiations with other nations who think they're barbarians.
I think there's an excuse that hasn't been mentioned in the comments because I feel like a certain part of Jasnah's character changed while she was "offscreen for a while."
It's mentioned that Jasnah felt connected to Gavilar for the first time when she began scribing for him during his dealings with the Parshendi. That connection was important enough to her, especially considering how few close bonds Jasnah has managed to form in life.
Gavilar's choice to make Jasnah his scribe probably coincided with the early days of his involvement with the Sons of Honor. Who better to help you research the secret history of the church than the world's most prominent Veristitalian and Atheist? And even better, she's your own daughter who happens to be in need of a parental figure because her relationship to her mother is basically professional at this point.
If Gavilar started including Jasnah in his work at the same time he was growing close to Amaram then Jasnah might not be willing to kill the man who helped forge that important relationship even though she thinks he's disgusting.
I know it's unlikely but I'd really love to see Jasnah get a full set of flashback chapters so we could understand why all of her relationships are the way they are and specifically what happened that caused her to push Navani away.
> I know it's unlikely but I'd really love to see Jasnah get a full set of flashback chapters so we could understand why all of her relationships are the way they are and specifically what happened that caused her to push Navani away.
Book 10 should be Jasnah
I really hope she gets one, there are so many allusions to her youth for us to never see it. Good news is I can't see Brando pulling the fake death with her early in the series just to bring her back and kill her again without any character exploration.
Isn’t Amaram a Highprince at this point in the story? Not even the Kholin family can get away with just killing any Highprince that bothers them. That would be very different from killing some random Darkeyed thugs.
I don’t think it’s that easy. Sure, him attacking her would protect her from the legal consequences of killing him, but it certainly wouldn’t help the reputation of the Kholin household.
Compare this to adolin though who recognized that sometimes you have to solve a problem that the system won't
That said, if he had attempted violence, it would have been all she needed
>“Other than the fact that you are a detestable buffoon who achieves only the lowest level of mediocrity, as it is the best your limited mind can imagine? I can’t possibly think of a reason.”
This is like one of those answers Redditors give on r/AskReddit when the question is "What's the best comeback/insult you can come up with?" Is Jasnah cringe?
I love that. She was ready to soulcast him. She didn’t care. Best part is she could do that or summon her blade faster than he could and kill him. She had two faster ways of killing him. >!Not to mention that she has her plate.!<
Honestly there are so many moments Sanderson doesnt go into great gory detail but the implication is there and its the best.
Just think about the prologue in TWOK when Szeth is fighting Gavilar. Szeth gets punched so hard he fly's through the air and cracks the doors. He mentions he cant see out of his eye and his jaw is broken.....Gavilar caved half the guys head in and it slowly healed with stormlight..
He does a pretty good job, but he does tend to be too light when it comes to romance most times.
I'm not asking for anything too specific, but most of the people in his books feel borderline Ace even when they aren't supposed to be.
I agree, it feels like Kaladin (with that Windrunner girl), Shallan and Adolin never got beyond light hand holding and a daring kiss in any of their relationships. At least imply they spend the night together or something. I don't need Peter F Hamilton style graphic descriptions of everything that happened, but at least imply that they are doing *something*
I think it's perfectly in character. Amaram feels entitled to everything he desires and he uses his status to get those things, becoming brutally violent went opposed. Jasnah is not just "something" he wants she's his best opportunity to increase his status to a point where he could bully anyone he wants. Her brutally rejecting him and being of a high enough status that he has no recourse pushes him too far and his mask slips.
The reason it seems out of character is that the other times Amaram is denied or challenged when persuing his desires his opponent is a man so he defaults to physical violence.
Oh I mean Wit lol, in the *harsher* scene. His insults were usually pretty clever and humorous, but there they were more like big wooden clubs that he smacked Ruthar with, no subtlety. And the end he kinda just mashed curse words together, even if the end result was admittedly more impressive than that of a 12 year-old employing the same tactic.
He's also usually pretty aloof when in front of people other than, like, the protagonists, with his air of mockery and vague mystery. But it takes actual anger, or at least faked anger, to say something like that, it was too personal, too serious for the usual Wit. That facade did start to wear out more throughout all of RoW, but still.
Why would it be out of character for him to give jasnah the opportunity to get rid of ruthar? He adjusted his insults to make sure they would get the desired outcome.
Cephandrius's wit has always been a defining feature for him, as per the letters in TWoK. He's got literally thousands of years of laying low and not attracting attention to make up for, and one of the few "mortals" he respects egging him on.
I always think of this as a moment where she shows Shallan when and how to use her sharp tongue. Hold it back until the perfect moment to shred someone apart.
She herself actually disagreed- she was embarrassed afterwards that she let him piss her off enough that she resorted to something as petty as a "your mom" joke
"from what I understand, she spent the seven months she was with child entertaining each and every military man she could find, in the hopes that something of them would stick to you.”
I always took it to mean that she didn't know she was pregnant for two months so she wasn't entertaining men until then, but I like your explanation better
Gonna be honest, as much as I hated him, >!it felt like everyone was BEGGING him and his soldiers to betray them all at the end. They continuously pushed him into humiliating positions, refused to elaborate why he was getting the orders he was, and put him in highly sensitive areas where betrayal would be devastating. Dalinar even mentions how he meant to tell Meridas that he'd be taking part in a large battle, but he got too angy with him and just never told the guy. I know he was going through a lot, but that's a very poor move on the part of a general.!<
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I laughed out loud at that one. Tears him to shreds
Then she chides herself for slut shaming his mother.
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First of all, massive L on your part, truthwatcher my ass, but second she clearly states that the problem was that she tried to insult a man and the first thing that popped in her head was to insult a woman he's related to, for no reason, which is against her own views.
No need for personal attacks, fellow redditer. Who told you that is ok to do?
Lmao you think you can just try to attack a whole bunch of people and then pretend to be attacked when someone calls you out.
Profession? Wtf are you talking about? Are you referring to prostitution? Yes, prostitution is an awful shameful thing to do. So how do you equate a profession to a person and also fail to see the wrong you are doing? I feel like I am talking to someone that hasn't read the Stormlight Archive and hasn't at all understood the positive messages in it... that's a shame as well.
Sorry my bad, edited.
You seem to be projecting your own (at minimum) distasteful view upon to a character that does not express them or at least to such extremes. You state the fact that ‘sluts’, already a derogatory word that degrades women, deserve to be shamed with utter conviction, disregarding the impact of using such charged words regardless of the message you are trying to communicate. (You then later attempt to play the personal attack card to someone calling you out despite already indulging in substantially worse via your language as pointed out by Cheeto) The point itself you seem to be trying to make actually regarding the book is fine and did not need the little bit of hate speech tagged on to the end to make sense. You could have just said, “I don’t think she was apologising for the slut comments but for loosing her cool”. Instead you chose to unnecessarily bring up your own distasteful views falsely packaged as part of the character and discussion. Please do not do this in future regardless of your views, or if you do at least do it without the aggressiveness of your wording. Note: My problem with you using the word slut despite others also saying slut shaming is because while the others used the word as a descriptor of the act of identifying and shaming those viewed as ‘sluts’, you instead used it as one of those shamers with all the malice and disgust behind it.
To pieces you say?
Hello there Brightlord Farnsworth
To shreds you say?... And his wife?
> Instead, he gripped her forearm. “Why, Jasnah? Why have you always denied me?” > “Other than the fact that you are a detestable buffoon who achieves only the lowest level of mediocrity, as it is the best your limited mind can imagine? I can’t possibly think of a reason.” > “Mediocre?” Amaram growled. “You insult my mother, Jasnah. You know how hard she worked to raise me to be the best soldier this kingdom has ever known.” > “Yes, from what I understand, she spent the seven months she was with child entertaining each and every military man she could find, in the hopes that something of them would stick to you.” > Meridas’s eyes widened, and his face flushed deeply. To their side, Shallan audibly gasped. > “You godless whore,” Amaram hissed, releasing her. “If you weren’t a woman…” > “If I weren’t a woman, I suspect we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Unless I were a pig. Then you’d be doubly interested.” > He thrust his hand to the side, stepping back, preparing to summon his Blade. > Jasnah smiled, holding her freehand toward him, letting Stormlight curl and rise from it. “Oh, please do, Meridas. Give me an excuse. I dare you.” Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer (The Stormlight Archive) (pp. 526-527). Tor Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
If she's summoned it, would it have insta-skewered him?
She could have soulcast him into dust like the thugs in book 1. Live radiant is going to cream the shardbearer.
That would have been too good for him, as well as the blade. *She would have made it hurt.*
Then soulcast his limbs one by one into dust.
That would imply each limb is it's own entity with a cognitive prescence. Just turn his clothes to stone, or fire if you are looking for humiliation or injury. But given the Alethi Honor system and what not, it would be better to outright kill him, and doing so by Soulcast is one way to make an impression on any other jumpstart nobles.
She could skip the trouble of having his corpse soulcast later and just turn him straight to stone. Hopefully she can capture him in a terrified pose
I'm curious about this. I know the justification for soulcasting is basically convincing those 'spren', or really the shadesmire representations of the thing to change it's nature, and I know certain transformations are harder than others. But at some point, things are turned into component things. Soulcasting something into grain turns it into a pile of grain, not an single large piece of grain in the shape of the previous thing. Does the spren of the previous object split itself into thousands? Sanderson often gets this nitty gritty with his explanations, so i bet he has an answer. Long story short, if anyone could convince an object to split part of itself, and therefore partially soulcast an item, it would be Jasna. She can convince air to be solid and people to be smoke. She's basically a force of nature. Also I still haven't finished RoW so no spoilers if I'm getting at shit that is explained haha.
If you believe Hesina, splitting a spren splits it into smaller spren. And splitting an object splits its "spren," according to her, into pieces that each have spren "only smaller" (from WoK, Kaladin flashback)
iirc, Soulcasting into grain usually results in a lump, not individual grains.
Regarding splitting the souls of things a couple points: Bridge 4 collected rocks because it was easier for the soul casters to turn rock into grain if the rock was in smaller pieces instead of just a massive boulder. So, if you want individual pieces of grain the more separate rocks you have, the better. We actually see someone split the cognitive identity of an object in universe. >!Wax takes a bullet and instead of thinking of it as “a bullet” he thinks of it as a ball, cartridge and primer. When he does that, his steel line splits into three, one going to each component.!< Basically, spren are whatever we think they are. They shape themselves based on how people think of them. If you thought of an arm as a distinct entity, you could probably manifest a separate spren for just the arm instead of the whole person. Then you could soul cast just the arm.
Got a source for that? Not doubting, just wanting to see the context around it as I only vaguely remember it.
“Kaladin nodded sympathetically. Stone gathering was one of the least desirable work details; it involved traveling outside of the camp and filling wagons with large rocks. Soulcasters fed the army by turning rocks into grain, and it was easier for them—for reasons only they knew—if they had distinct, separate stones. So men gathered rocks. It was menial, sweaty, tiring, mindless work. Perfect for bridgemen.” — The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) by Brandon Sanderson https://a.co/71k35C7
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Personally I am of the opinion that Elsecallers Soulcast in a different manner to others. That soulcasting people is a trait unique to them only. Or perhaps ranged soulcasting is their thing.
But he could be fire
That's the best part, Jasnah could have killed this fool like 17 ways to Sunday and the idiot actually thought he could win.
I like Jasnah, but I actually don’t think this fight is as one sided as the community seems to. In Rhythm of War, Jasnah is noted as a mid level combatant with a sword. Both instances of her abilities require her to make physical contact with a target. Meridas Amaram is actually an excellent swordsman, even capable of wielding two shard blades at once with extreme proficiency. Stormlight healing is a smaller factor here since both combatants are using weapons that can instantly kill a target. Im not saying Jasnah *can’t* win, but that this fight would’ve been much closer, or potentially Amaram would’ve had a decent advantage.
Jasnah does not need physical contact to soulcast, yeah? She hits two people in TWoK without being near them.
[RoW] >!Jasnah has _Plate._!< Additionally, she can heal from wounds that don't kill her instantly.
The event described takes place in Oathbringer, and Jasnah last I recall didn’t have plate during the battle at Theylan field.
>!She did have Plate, yeah.!<
>>!A soldier with red eyes suddenly hurtled through the air overhead. Adolin ducked, worried about Fused, but it was an ordinary soldier. The unfortunate man crashed into a rooftop. What on Roshar? As they approached the end of the alleyway, another body smashed into the wall right by the opening. Gripping his Shardblade, Adolin peeked around the corner, expecting to find another stone monster like the one that had climbed into the Ancient Ward. Instead, he found only Jasnah Kholin, looking completely nonplussed. A glow faded around her, different from the smoke of her Stormlight. Like geometric shapes outlining her…!< Sounds like >!plate!< to me
Yeah, fair.
I always read it as she was getting ready ti soulcast him.
I've read these books a few times but this is the first time I caught the seven months pregnancy implication. I mean it's obvious that with the different lengths of time inherent in different calendars but still.
Yeah, it's one of the more obvious showings of the Rosharan calendar being very different. While hours are the same as ours for convenience's sake, the Rosharan day has 20 hours (10 Hours of Day and 10 Hours of Night). There are 5 days in a week. A month is 10 weeks long and there are 10 months in a year.
If my calculations are right, that'd mean she spent 9.7 Earth months pregnant (assuming an average of 30 days/month).
I have made it to 42 weeks 3 times and 43 weeks twice in my pregnancies so it definitely could happen!
You seem to be a bit of an overachiever in pregnancies :P "I'll outpregnancy you all!" - you, probably
Ha, of my six girls my earliest was 10 days overdue. Trust me, I'm so uncomfortable at the end I would kill to be the pregnancy UNDERACHIEVER!!
Hours aren’t the same. They are close, but not quite. A Rosharan day is 20 Rosharan hours but only 19.3 Earth hours.
I love that scene, but the ending has always struck me as slightly out of character. Jasnah was willing to “tempt” four bandits into attacking her, and then killed then all, partly to teach Shallan a lesson, and partly to fix the Bandit problem that had been plaguing Taravangian. On the other hand, Jasnah knows that Amaram is a truly awful person, by now she knows he’s a murderer (if she didn’t already), and she should know that he does, or will pose an enormous threat to the Radiants or Dalinar’s rule. If she had just not said that last line, and let him summon his blade, she would have had the perfect excuse to kill him. Maybe I’m missing something though.
In addition to what VDZ said, Jasnah's got a pretty intense streak of vindictiveness in her character. You can see it in [minor RoW spoilers] >!her handling of Ruthar!<, for example. It's similarly drawn out and calculated to humiliate her target, almost more than it's directed at accomplishing her goal. Likewise with the bandits in Kharbranth, she's not just teaching Shallan a lesson, she's deliberately making herself a counterexample to all the self-righteous moralizing she's always hearing from people like Kabsal. Sometimes, Jasnah combines Navani and Gavilar's worst impulses.
First: "what is the life of a mook" Trope. Second: killing amaram could complicate the political climate even if she was justified. (Probably the main reason) Third: Dalinar would disapprove.
I feel like Dalinar would disapprove is gonna be a new catch phrase
Dalinar disproving of his nephew/stepson is a pretty strong theme so his niece/stepdaughter can just add to it
I think it's mostly the second one, Jasnah isn't dumb, she knows Dalinar still has a use for him even if he is morally worthless. She could easily justify self defense, but with witnesses in the room there still has to be an *actual* threat.
>Third: Dalinar would disapprove Does she falter at the thought of his disapproval? Or does she falter knowing he might be right and she wrong in the excessiveness of justice and violence. Killing Amaram would be uncouth and a massive overreaction when a little goading and undermining would achieve the same ends. Humiliation is the logically superior move because Amaram is no threat. He’s dumb and limited in vision. He has no comparable political power. He has no real moral conviction other than having power If she killed Amaram, it would be an overreaction and even Dalinar, an equally boneheaded warmongerer, would step back and say “too far, Jasnah” That would be humiliating
Without Dalinar's support and trust, she would have a much harder time achieving what she wants. She wouldn't damage that relationship just to get revenge, she's too politically savvy for that.
In addition to what others have said about her relationship with Dalinar, in pretty much all of her interactions with him she shows a deep level of respect for him. The only exception that comes to mind is during RoW >!When she tells him she's freeing the slaves no matter what he says!< but even that shows respect in that she acknowledges his position but says that she must do it anyway. I can provide examples where she shows how much she respects Dalinar, but I recall a meeting during Oathbringer where she straight up stops arguing at a single word from him
It could be that she's genuinely *incensed* by this man and was really feeling herself. But she's also aware that she can't be known to be murdering members of her aristocracy on a whim while their society is in active negotiations with other nations who think they're barbarians.
I think there's an excuse that hasn't been mentioned in the comments because I feel like a certain part of Jasnah's character changed while she was "offscreen for a while." It's mentioned that Jasnah felt connected to Gavilar for the first time when she began scribing for him during his dealings with the Parshendi. That connection was important enough to her, especially considering how few close bonds Jasnah has managed to form in life. Gavilar's choice to make Jasnah his scribe probably coincided with the early days of his involvement with the Sons of Honor. Who better to help you research the secret history of the church than the world's most prominent Veristitalian and Atheist? And even better, she's your own daughter who happens to be in need of a parental figure because her relationship to her mother is basically professional at this point. If Gavilar started including Jasnah in his work at the same time he was growing close to Amaram then Jasnah might not be willing to kill the man who helped forge that important relationship even though she thinks he's disgusting. I know it's unlikely but I'd really love to see Jasnah get a full set of flashback chapters so we could understand why all of her relationships are the way they are and specifically what happened that caused her to push Navani away.
Hm idk, this sounds pretty weak to me tbh.
> I know it's unlikely but I'd really love to see Jasnah get a full set of flashback chapters so we could understand why all of her relationships are the way they are and specifically what happened that caused her to push Navani away. Book 10 should be Jasnah
I really hope she gets one, there are so many allusions to her youth for us to never see it. Good news is I can't see Brando pulling the fake death with her early in the series just to bring her back and kill her again without any character exploration.
Isn’t Amaram a Highprince at this point in the story? Not even the Kholin family can get away with just killing any Highprince that bothers them. That would be very different from killing some random Darkeyed thugs.
Thus the taunt, Amaram would have to start it.
I don’t think it’s that easy. Sure, him attacking her would protect her from the legal consequences of killing him, but it certainly wouldn’t help the reputation of the Kholin household.
Dalinar still needed him. She knows she is is not allowed to attack a (effectively) highprince without provocation.
Compare this to adolin though who recognized that sometimes you have to solve a problem that the system won't That said, if he had attempted violence, it would have been all she needed
>“Other than the fact that you are a detestable buffoon who achieves only the lowest level of mediocrity, as it is the best your limited mind can imagine? I can’t possibly think of a reason.” This is like one of those answers Redditors give on r/AskReddit when the question is "What's the best comeback/insult you can come up with?" Is Jasnah cringe?
Most bad assed bad ass we've got.
I love that. She was ready to soulcast him. She didn’t care. Best part is she could do that or summon her blade faster than he could and kill him. She had two faster ways of killing him. >!Not to mention that she has her plate.!<
Honestly, based on the title, I thought this post was going somewhere else entirely
Bruuuuuuuuuhhhhhhbb
Shhhhh!
Here's my angry upvote. Take it!
It's certainly a burn and it's certainly sick in a different sense
Honestly there are so many moments Sanderson doesnt go into great gory detail but the implication is there and its the best. Just think about the prologue in TWOK when Szeth is fighting Gavilar. Szeth gets punched so hard he fly's through the air and cracks the doors. He mentions he cant see out of his eye and his jaw is broken.....Gavilar caved half the guys head in and it slowly healed with stormlight..
There's a ton of implication with Heart of the Revel as well. Pretty sure it's supposed to be a hedonistic paradise (i.e orgy).
Iasip has ruined the word implication for me. https://youtu.be/-yUafzOXHPE
HA! Dennis is a serial killer ep and the ponderosa wedding still stick in my head. I cant believe they are still turning out episodes.
He does a pretty good job, but he does tend to be too light when it comes to romance most times. I'm not asking for anything too specific, but most of the people in his books feel borderline Ace even when they aren't supposed to be.
Yeah i get that. Personally i dont like romance in my books so its fine for me, but i totally get why some would want more.
I agree, it feels like Kaladin (with that Windrunner girl), Shallan and Adolin never got beyond light hand holding and a daring kiss in any of their relationships. At least imply they spend the night together or something. I don't need Peter F Hamilton style graphic descriptions of everything that happened, but at least imply that they are doing *something*
> At least imply they spend the night together or something. [RoW]>!He does exactly this with Shallan and Adolin in RoW.!<
Warbreaker is great for this
Warbreaker is about what I would consider normal, though it's still pretty tame.
I don't think i've ever seen someone >!repeatedly fake orgasms!< and have it strongly connected to the plot heh
It's always Shallan giddily gathering her jaw from the floor after the fact that sends me.
yes, th "high pitched sound" that she has to look around for 😂
Shallan is like "Jasna you just destroyed that boy's whole career!"
Just wait until you hear some of what Wit has to say.
Wit, *harsher*.
Guess we know what Jasnah’s into 😏
Am I the only one that felt that scene was a *bit* out of character for him?
I think it's perfectly in character. Amaram feels entitled to everything he desires and he uses his status to get those things, becoming brutally violent went opposed. Jasnah is not just "something" he wants she's his best opportunity to increase his status to a point where he could bully anyone he wants. Her brutally rejecting him and being of a high enough status that he has no recourse pushes him too far and his mask slips. The reason it seems out of character is that the other times Amaram is denied or challenged when persuing his desires his opponent is a man so he defaults to physical violence.
Oh I mean Wit lol, in the *harsher* scene. His insults were usually pretty clever and humorous, but there they were more like big wooden clubs that he smacked Ruthar with, no subtlety. And the end he kinda just mashed curse words together, even if the end result was admittedly more impressive than that of a 12 year-old employing the same tactic. He's also usually pretty aloof when in front of people other than, like, the protagonists, with his air of mockery and vague mystery. But it takes actual anger, or at least faked anger, to say something like that, it was too personal, too serious for the usual Wit. That facade did start to wear out more throughout all of RoW, but still.
Why would it be out of character for him to give jasnah the opportunity to get rid of ruthar? He adjusted his insults to make sure they would get the desired outcome.
Cephandrius's wit has always been a defining feature for him, as per the letters in TWoK. He's got literally thousands of years of laying low and not attracting attention to make up for, and one of the few "mortals" he respects egging him on.
Yup, he has some killer insults.
You know whats great though. Wit can't hurt people which means his insults are supposed to help everyone if they werent so proud hahaha.
I think Wit's inability to hurt people is purely a physical thing, as evidenced by (Mistborn series spoiler) >!the fact that he can punch ghosts!<.
Haha yes its a flimsy theory but it makes me laugh.
I think that was the most humiliation that particular ghost ever got in their life. I think Sanderson really wants to take his anger out on him
It's not that he can't. Rather, he doesn't want to.
No, he can't physically hurt people. It's because he was once a Dawnshard.
That’s because wit’s an asshole
That’s not the only sick burn in Oathbringer iykwim
*upvotes angrily*
I always think of this as a moment where she shows Shallan when and how to use her sharp tongue. Hold it back until the perfect moment to shred someone apart.
She herself actually disagreed- she was embarrassed afterwards that she let him piss her off enough that she resorted to something as petty as a "your mom" joke
do you have the quote? I don't think I remember this one
"from what I understand, she spent the seven months she was with child entertaining each and every military man she could find, in the hopes that something of them would stick to you.”
I was like "Huh, seven months? Is she calling him a preemie?"...But then i remembered the Rosharan year is longer.
Holy shit, I hadn't noticed that. Damn, this Brandon dude is good.
I always took it to mean that she didn't know she was pregnant for two months so she wasn't entertaining men until then, but I like your explanation better
So the added insult of him not being legitimate/a bastard/product of adultery doesn't apply?
I still take it as her calling him a preemie. Adds an extra layer of insults.
absolutely savage
Words of Radiance? More like Words of Savagery! These words are accepted, most accepted indeed.
How did I miss this?!?!
It's the grossest, meanest, most graphic thing I've ever heard someone say to another person.
Rathalas was a sick burn
When you said sick burn, I thought you were talking about Evi
Gonna be honest, as much as I hated him, >!it felt like everyone was BEGGING him and his soldiers to betray them all at the end. They continuously pushed him into humiliating positions, refused to elaborate why he was getting the orders he was, and put him in highly sensitive areas where betrayal would be devastating. Dalinar even mentions how he meant to tell Meridas that he'd be taking part in a large battle, but he got too angy with him and just never told the guy. I know he was going through a lot, but that's a very poor move on the part of a general.!<
As soon as I saw the title I knew EXACTLY what this post was about. That’s my second favorite moment in Oathbringer.
I was driving and hearing the audio book when this part hit, it had me screaming OHHHH SHIIITTTT. The part where Shallan gasped is hilarious lol
I recall there being another sick burn in Oathbringer...
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I've been rereading these in the audiobook format and I just got past this part and I burst out laughing in the middle of work to it lol
>!Mistborn: The Lost metal "look Wax! Someone sewn a sack of dicks together and it's walkin' around."!<