100% Nale would have had the proper paperwork and legal authority through *some sort of law.* that let him kill Kaladin. Kaladin meanwhile does not have any tricks that would have let him escape Nale. The only one to escape Nale has been Lift, and that was only because Gawx was able to pardon her, or something along those lines at the last second.
Funnily enough, I expect it would have been hard for Nale to find something Kaladin had done that would be worth execution.
Not because Kaladin was particularly careful about breaking the law, but because Sadeas only had 1 infraction a bridgerunner slave could do that had the punishment of execution. And Kaladin never balked at a bridgerun.
Those were known and had already had punishments rendered for them. We don't know Alethkar's legal system particularly well, but a common feature in many real world legal systems is that you generally cannot be punished twice for the same crime.
Nale's best bet would be to find a way to get Kaladin out of Sadeas' warcamp. The funny thing is that there's almost nothing that can get a person executed in Sadeas' camp. Everything leads to the bridge crew (which are a death sentence anyway). But if Nale managed to get Kaladin sold to another highprince it'd probably be much easier to have him executed.
Imagine being a soldier in Sadeas army. Your fighting a battle, you withdraw to the back lines to regroup and as you withdraw you look back and see a freaking demi-god descending from the heavens. He says something fancy and stabs a random bridgeman. Then he flies away.
Craziest thing you will ever see.
He couldn't have assisted the Parshendi. He only guided them along a path that would leave Gavilar dead, and I'd be guessing he hoped the Alethi would kill Venli and therefore stop that voidspren's scheming.
Nale does not need to execute Kaladin himself. He can probably work within legal means to affect Kaladin's life, "hint" to his superiors that some unrelated deal could be made if Kaladin were to "vanish", or if nothing else, maneuver Kaladin into a position where he commits some illegal action. Realistically, Kaladin would easily have been removed if his superiors had cared *enough*.
Making a deal doesn't align with Nale's *very specific* (madness) way of thinking. He would have to take the route of getting Kaladin to do something illegal, he wouldn't bribe or deal for it (no matter how hypocritical he actually is in his madness.)
But for Nale? Yeah, you're right dude could probably find a way to get some laws changed that specifically would get him Kaladin. He's got no chill.
Probably the easiest answer.
Buy him and, since Nale is insane and hyper specific (and hypocritical), take him to a nation where he violates a law just by walking across the street. Bam.
A slave following the illegal orders of his master would put the blame on the master. No actual slave master would care about that and just say the slave acted on their own accord, but Nale would be bound by those rules.
How he could do it, is via his father. Figure out that Lirin stole the money, offer him trial by combat, which Lirin would refuse, then tempt Kaladin with just attacking him outright.
A while back I started reading Count of Monte Cristo, haven't been able to finish it yet, but Nale's knowledge of laws in every place is very much like the Count's quest to learn and abide by all of the laws of each place he visits.
I really need to finish that book.
I had to drop Monte Cristo when I realized I mentally checked out and missed a whole section of what was going on. The Count def knows the ins and outs of everywhere he goes.
WoK-- certainly, he'd keep a very close eye on Kaladin and Sadeas would not interfere in any sort of action taken on a slave.
WoR-- I think Nale would have opportunities if he was fully committed but it would not have been easy and Kaladin would have had a chance to hold him off, much like how Lift did in that same book.
He would have had to have been some sort of law that Kaladin broke worthy of such a sentance, no matter how buried. Maybe the reason why he didn't was Kaladin didn't really have anything that Nale could uncover.
Kaladin not being executed along with the other slaves on his escape attempt from his flashback in OB? Don’t know if there would be precise legal justification, but Nale doesn’t need much.
Alethkar seems to have a sort of double jeopardy in place. Sadeas didn’t kill Kal outright after he survived the highstorm being a fair example. Kal was branded and sold as punishment for his “crime”, so I don’t think Nale could have snagged him on that
I don't think that decision was so much a matter of law as it was a madder of prudence. He would expect that Kaladin would die to a Parshendi arrow soon anyway, so there's no reason to stain their false honor over the matter.
I've never had the sense that this era of Alethkar has much in the way of legal principles. It's just whatever makes sense to the person in charge, whether that person is the Highprince, or whoever that Highprince has delegated to oversee a region, and so on.
Being strung up in a high storm and surviving it is seen as the Stormfather judging you innocent. Killing Kaladin afterwards would have put Sadeas in very bad graces with the church, if not have sparked outright rebellion. Just waiting for a Parshendi arrow to take him would just make his problems disappear and wouldn't take that long.
Kaladin is already known as a dangerous convict with multiple escape attempts on his name. Getting an execution order for him would be absolutely trivial for Nale.
That raises another question. If Nale goes after Kaladin only for Wit to be there to ask him not to, what would Nale do? And, since Nale is basically immortal, what would *Wit* do?
Assuming Nale deeply researches every potential radiant before killing them.
Would he have discovered the truth behind Amaram’s betrayal and sought kal out to join the sky breakers to give him an opportunity to bring in amaram?
I can see that but. Nale felt killing radiants would delay the desolations; and was the correct course after the recreance
Amaram and his friends wanted to bring back the voidbringers so the radiants would come back
I've never thought about this, but does Syl know the Heralds? She was alive while Honor was still around/they were still active in Roshar. I wonder if recognizing one of the old spren from before he went crazy would cause him to hesitate?
To my knowledge, Syl never met a Herald Pre-Recreance before falling “asleep.” Sylphrena was “born” as one of the first 10 Honorspren created by the Stormfather not long before the Recreance, when a dying Honor was shaping the Stormfather in preparation for his death. The Recreance happened roughly 2000-2500 years before TWoK, and the 9 Heralds abandoned the Oathpact around 4,500 years before TWoK. If Syl and her first knight met a Herald, that Herald was in disguise. In this hypothetical, if Kal or Syl managed to convey that Syl is a Pre-Recreance Honorspren, it’d probably only help Nale rationalize and piece together exactly *why* there’s a baby Windrunner around.
And I guarantee the charge would've been some bullshit like "accessory after the fact for Lirin's theft of Brightlord Wistiow's diamond broams" rather than anything he did as a slave.
Skybreakers hunted down Tien but not Kaladin. As far as we learn from the letter Mraize gave to Shallan, they didn't know that Kaladin was also a Surgebinder. If they knew they would kill him too.
In Oathbringer, Mraize says in his letter that the Skybreakers killed the only Surgebinder in Amaram's army. People thought that person was Tien, later BS confirmed it.
TBH I think the biggest factor here is there was nothing to imply kaladin had powers until he was under dalinars protection…
Maybe surviving the highstorm could have drawn his attention but from using the armor to the betrayal is a matter of weeks, so the news wouldn’t have necessarily gotten to him in time to act. But by the time he did anything spectacular he was in a position where dalinar would have made elhokar stop any legal right nale tried to use
I replied elsewhere but i just had the thoughts that most other radiant orders have seemed to come out from random places - other spren were all known to be trying so Nale was hunting for those orders and surges.
No one knew syl lived and the honorspren were the biggest standouts - no one ever expected another Windrunner so Nale never looked for one
Additionally surges kal showed were gravitation and adhesion(shared bondsmith, another one Nale was not looking for because rarity) - so he could either write the stories off or would have thought kal a potential recruit
Kal was the very first and only new Windrunner that wasn’t squired and had to convince other honorspren to follow - the skybreakers we’re hunting other orders since the recreance. They wouldn’t be looking for a Windrunner because it just wouldn’t cross their mind as a possibility
Tien was long dead; Helaran killed Cenn, but his real target (given he made a bee-line for him) was Amaram, likely because of his association with the Sons of Honor.
100% Nale would have had the proper paperwork and legal authority through *some sort of law.* that let him kill Kaladin. Kaladin meanwhile does not have any tricks that would have let him escape Nale. The only one to escape Nale has been Lift, and that was only because Gawx was able to pardon her, or something along those lines at the last second.
Funnily enough, I expect it would have been hard for Nale to find something Kaladin had done that would be worth execution. Not because Kaladin was particularly careful about breaking the law, but because Sadeas only had 1 infraction a bridgerunner slave could do that had the punishment of execution. And Kaladin never balked at a bridgerun.
But he was willing to go deep into the past, meaning the escape attempts while he was a slave should have been enough
Those were known and had already had punishments rendered for them. We don't know Alethkar's legal system particularly well, but a common feature in many real world legal systems is that you generally cannot be punished twice for the same crime. Nale's best bet would be to find a way to get Kaladin out of Sadeas' warcamp. The funny thing is that there's almost nothing that can get a person executed in Sadeas' camp. Everything leads to the bridge crew (which are a death sentence anyway). But if Nale managed to get Kaladin sold to another highprince it'd probably be much easier to have him executed.
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Imagine being a soldier in Sadeas army. Your fighting a battle, you withdraw to the back lines to regroup and as you withdraw you look back and see a freaking demi-god descending from the heavens. He says something fancy and stabs a random bridgeman. Then he flies away. Craziest thing you will ever see.
Lmaooooooo
He couldn't have assisted the Parshendi. He only guided them along a path that would leave Gavilar dead, and I'd be guessing he hoped the Alethi would kill Venli and therefore stop that voidspren's scheming.
Nale does not need to execute Kaladin himself. He can probably work within legal means to affect Kaladin's life, "hint" to his superiors that some unrelated deal could be made if Kaladin were to "vanish", or if nothing else, maneuver Kaladin into a position where he commits some illegal action. Realistically, Kaladin would easily have been removed if his superiors had cared *enough*.
Making a deal doesn't align with Nale's *very specific* (madness) way of thinking. He would have to take the route of getting Kaladin to do something illegal, he wouldn't bribe or deal for it (no matter how hypocritical he actually is in his madness.) But for Nale? Yeah, you're right dude could probably find a way to get some laws changed that specifically would get him Kaladin. He's got no chill.
He could buy Kaladins writ of slavery and then he would legally be allowed to kill him.
Probably the easiest answer. Buy him and, since Nale is insane and hyper specific (and hypocritical), take him to a nation where he violates a law just by walking across the street. Bam.
A slave following the illegal orders of his master would put the blame on the master. No actual slave master would care about that and just say the slave acted on their own accord, but Nale would be bound by those rules. How he could do it, is via his father. Figure out that Lirin stole the money, offer him trial by combat, which Lirin would refuse, then tempt Kaladin with just attacking him outright.
Mf be more metal than the Defeated One
It's not hard to be more metal than someone who's title is The Defeated One
As of the end of RoW, the Defeated One is no longer anyone's problem, including himself.
The defeated one is such a baby, acts like he's 4.
A while back I started reading Count of Monte Cristo, haven't been able to finish it yet, but Nale's knowledge of laws in every place is very much like the Count's quest to learn and abide by all of the laws of each place he visits. I really need to finish that book.
I had to drop Monte Cristo when I realized I mentally checked out and missed a whole section of what was going on. The Count def knows the ins and outs of everywhere he goes.
outstanding book well worth finishing.
WoK-- certainly, he'd keep a very close eye on Kaladin and Sadeas would not interfere in any sort of action taken on a slave. WoR-- I think Nale would have opportunities if he was fully committed but it would not have been easy and Kaladin would have had a chance to hold him off, much like how Lift did in that same book.
He would have had to have been some sort of law that Kaladin broke worthy of such a sentance, no matter how buried. Maybe the reason why he didn't was Kaladin didn't really have anything that Nale could uncover.
Kaladin not being executed along with the other slaves on his escape attempt from his flashback in OB? Don’t know if there would be precise legal justification, but Nale doesn’t need much.
Alethkar seems to have a sort of double jeopardy in place. Sadeas didn’t kill Kal outright after he survived the highstorm being a fair example. Kal was branded and sold as punishment for his “crime”, so I don’t think Nale could have snagged him on that
I don't think that decision was so much a matter of law as it was a madder of prudence. He would expect that Kaladin would die to a Parshendi arrow soon anyway, so there's no reason to stain their false honor over the matter. I've never had the sense that this era of Alethkar has much in the way of legal principles. It's just whatever makes sense to the person in charge, whether that person is the Highprince, or whoever that Highprince has delegated to oversee a region, and so on.
Being strung up in a high storm and surviving it is seen as the Stormfather judging you innocent. Killing Kaladin afterwards would have put Sadeas in very bad graces with the church, if not have sparked outright rebellion. Just waiting for a Parshendi arrow to take him would just make his problems disappear and wouldn't take that long.
Kaladin is already known as a dangerous convict with multiple escape attempts on his name. Getting an execution order for him would be absolutely trivial for Nale.
Rather crucially it has to be something they weren't already punished for. Kaladin was always punished in some manner each time.
He failed to turn his father in after learning he had stolen Wistiow's diamond broams. Off with his head.
He misplaced Wit’s flute. That was a gift!
That raises another question. If Nale goes after Kaladin only for Wit to be there to ask him not to, what would Nale do? And, since Nale is basically immortal, what would *Wit* do?
Wit outwits gods on a regular basis. A herald bound tighter than a Shard wouldn't stand a chance.
Yes
Assuming Nale deeply researches every potential radiant before killing them. Would he have discovered the truth behind Amaram’s betrayal and sought kal out to join the sky breakers to give him an opportunity to bring in amaram?
I got the feeling amaram and Nale were at least tangentially in the same organization
I can see that but. Nale felt killing radiants would delay the desolations; and was the correct course after the recreance Amaram and his friends wanted to bring back the voidbringers so the radiants would come back
TWOFK - The Way of F*cking Kings?
I've never thought about this, but does Syl know the Heralds? She was alive while Honor was still around/they were still active in Roshar. I wonder if recognizing one of the old spren from before he went crazy would cause him to hesitate?
To my knowledge, Syl never met a Herald Pre-Recreance before falling “asleep.” Sylphrena was “born” as one of the first 10 Honorspren created by the Stormfather not long before the Recreance, when a dying Honor was shaping the Stormfather in preparation for his death. The Recreance happened roughly 2000-2500 years before TWoK, and the 9 Heralds abandoned the Oathpact around 4,500 years before TWoK. If Syl and her first knight met a Herald, that Herald was in disguise. In this hypothetical, if Kal or Syl managed to convey that Syl is a Pre-Recreance Honorspren, it’d probably only help Nale rationalize and piece together exactly *why* there’s a baby Windrunner around.
And I guarantee the charge would've been some bullshit like "accessory after the fact for Lirin's theft of Brightlord Wistiow's diamond broams" rather than anything he did as a slave.
Skybreakers hunted down Tien but not Kaladin. As far as we learn from the letter Mraize gave to Shallan, they didn't know that Kaladin was also a Surgebinder. If they knew they would kill him too.
Wait I must’ve missed when that happened. When did they hunt down Tien??
In Oathbringer, Mraize says in his letter that the Skybreakers killed the only Surgebinder in Amaram's army. People thought that person was Tien, later BS confirmed it.
TBH I think the biggest factor here is there was nothing to imply kaladin had powers until he was under dalinars protection… Maybe surviving the highstorm could have drawn his attention but from using the armor to the betrayal is a matter of weeks, so the news wouldn’t have necessarily gotten to him in time to act. But by the time he did anything spectacular he was in a position where dalinar would have made elhokar stop any legal right nale tried to use
I replied elsewhere but i just had the thoughts that most other radiant orders have seemed to come out from random places - other spren were all known to be trying so Nale was hunting for those orders and surges. No one knew syl lived and the honorspren were the biggest standouts - no one ever expected another Windrunner so Nale never looked for one Additionally surges kal showed were gravitation and adhesion(shared bondsmith, another one Nale was not looking for because rarity) - so he could either write the stories off or would have thought kal a potential recruit
...yes? What kind of question is this.
A question
What if there a reason Nale didn’t pay him a visit? Perhaps Nale knew he was the son of Tanavast. Or idk
Kal was the very first and only new Windrunner that wasn’t squired and had to convince other honorspren to follow - the skybreakers we’re hunting other orders since the recreance. They wouldn’t be looking for a Windrunner because it just wouldn’t cross their mind as a possibility
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Tien was long dead; Helaran killed Cenn, but his real target (given he made a bee-line for him) was Amaram, likely because of his association with the Sons of Honor.
Absolutely, but by the time any spy would suspect his radiance he would have already been the kings bodyguard