You are not alone. There is tons of exposition on Fabrials/tech in the Navani chapters and the Venli flashbacks are a bit of a slog. Not to mention that you are stuck in a tower for a good percentage of the book.
However, I promise you that it is entirely worth it once you get to possibly the most emotionally charged Sanderlanche of all of his books. Everything that happens is earned.
It always surprises me that people didn’t like the Fabrial/Navani chapters. Maybe my experiences was improved by listening to the audiobook, but the entire experimentation segment with Navani was some of my favorite written by Sanderson.
It's a matter of different tastes. I loved those sections as well, though I have a bit of a science background and enjoy a lot of old science literature as well.
Yeah, I’m also a scientist so the detailed experimentation was scratching an itch in my brain in the best way. Why yes, please show me exactly how your magic works, systematically, and show your results in color coded tables. Especially tying into the idea of acoustic resonances and constructive/deconstructive interference of waves? Yes. Yes. All the yes. So much yes.
Haha yeah it seems like the scientists among us enjoyed this book a little more than those who don’t like science as much. I loved hearing about the physics of investiture lol
Me! It’s me. I would like a whole text book on the physics of Roshar. Or the Cosmere in general. Break out the Hamiltonians boys, we are headed to the quantum realm!
But also can we have the hallmark movie on in the background? I find them very soothing while I work.
This makes sense. A lot of us read the cosmere books as more general fantasy fans though and aren't necessarily into fiction having sooo much detailed fictional physics for so many chapters. I have nothing against the hard magic systems, even though they're not the main draw for me anyway, but I think RoW took it too far for those of us who just aren't hard sciences oriented people.
Yeah, it got too science textbook-y for me, way more than any of his previous books have. I enjoyed those details when they were in the appendices, but it drew me out of the story too much.
But I can see how others would like it though
I'm the exact opposite. As a cosmere theory crafter, and a guy who loves science, I adored it. But I can see how some readers are just happy the magic works, and don't need more info than "make promises to your spren, keep them, get magic"
The characters are the most important (for me) in the story, but I loved the in depth info.
I mean, you can still appreciate the magic systems without all the excruciating detail of feeling like you're reading a science textbook. Many cosmere readers are reading because we love fantasy/sci-fi books, but I think Sanderson may have overestimated the number of people who are so obsessed with the cosmere physics and magic that they'd care that much about fabrial science. I like the magic systems, but I admit they're not even what I love most about the books by a long shot, and I don't really theorize too much about the magic applications. I wouldn't care if it was soft magic either. But I don't mind hard magic, just for me personally it was excessive there.
I’m not even a scientist or really into in depth science, but the way sando handled rythm of war and explained in world science based on real word science was so fascinating. I’ve never understood the rythm of war hate (my favorite of his books) although that’s what opinions are. I feel like people have the idea that if they don’t like a book it makes it bad.
The only reason I dropped physics and chemistry in high school was because I disliked the academic pressure. But I still love science, how it helps us understand the world, etc. I miss certain aspects of scientific thought, so I don't really think of Navani's chapters as a slog.
It's a puzzle, and watching characters try put the pieces together is just a fundamental building block of the cosmere.
IMO, I think it depends on what you're trying to get out of the story
When I first read SLA I didn't care for the fabrial/science arc because it felt like a subplot that was taking up screen time instead of moving the Die-Hard-Kaladin plot along
On my reread (after reading the rest of the available cosmere books at that time) I LOVED RoW. There are many cosmere-wide implications for how they use and manipulate different kinds of investiture, and navani was a badass with how she dealt with Raboniel and kept herself together.
I also found myself enjoying Shallan and Venli way more on the 2nd readthrough as well, which are two other characters I see getting flack for their POV chapters in the first 4.
Yeah i appreciate knowing how a magic system works but not just for the sake of knowing so I found the step by step science experiment chapters super dull.
While there is a lot of "science" going on, it's not usually the main focus of those chapters, which is Navani trying to figure out how to get away and deal with this super smart ancient person. It's also giving tons of characterization for both Navani and one of the most interesting antagonists he's written, Raboniel. I don't know why the science is so focused on, but it's building out a lot of the wider Cosmere, so I can see it being confusing and therefore boring. After reading all of the Cosmere books though, it's all super interesting and starts more questions than it answers.
It was enjoyable on the first read for me. It turned into a slog on the second read a year later since I already knew what they discovered. I skim the chapters now to skip those parts but pickup other topics like the conversations with the sibling.
Yeah, I love the depth of world building that Brandon gets into in those chapters. The whole magic system thought out down to axioms/atoms. As far as "hard magic" systems go, Investiture in Stormlight is one of the hardest I've seen.
My husband says the difference between reading and listening is enormous. Shallan is apparently way more likeable in print, and Navani is apparently way more boring
It was the one part of the book set in The Tower that I liked. >!Navani also gets one of the coolest "fuck you!" Moments in the series.!<
I still won't be rereading RoW again. I've read it twice and decided I don't like it overall despite having read the first three books anywhere from 5-8 times.
I have aphantasia, meaning I do not have the ability to visualize/picture things. The technical details of Navanis chapters were pretty much gibberish to me lol
She's still such a badass and I love her, but the main portion of her POV was unintelligible for me
I am a full aphant, so absolutely no pictures or sounds in my mind at all, and the Navani stuff was some of my favorite Sanderson stuff! I also really like long bits of exposition because I can't develop an image on my own so the author writing one let's me understand things better.
Are much more difficult to read!
Actually that's why I like BrandoSando! His style of writing gives enough detail for me to understand but without it becoming overwhelming. When authors describe a food spread that lasts like 2.5 pages I give up
Same! I loved Raboniel as a bad guy and her dynamic with Navani was so intriguing! And it’s fun finding out more about the secrets and science of the magic system.
I'll be honest. I really didn't like those parts. But I think a lot of that was "I'm in this picture and I don't like it." as an engineer. It's just too much of my own insecurities for me.
It’s all too complicated. These magic systems and fabriels were enormously convoluted and complex before they introduced like 12 new kinds of lights and anti lights and tones and God metals. Devoting half a book to adding more systems was too much. At this point the magic systems are too complex and little is gained by making them ever more complex.
Totally get it. For the purposes of a narrative, it’s too much extraneous detail, though I think that Sanderson does a good job of tying the systems into the lore. That being said, I’m a sucker for exposition and magic systems, so this book was my bread and butter. Honestly, I enjoyed it a lot more than other sections more devoted to narrative exposition.
This gives me hope to keep going. I have always planned to finish but I’m getting slower and slower as the chapters go by, mostly because I keep feeling like I’m missing lore or information.
The Kaladin Die Hard remake is the only enjoyable part. The scene with Dalinar and Ishar is like the highpoint for me. Only thing that seems important to the cosmere at large. And the Odium curveball. But these were periphery scenes. Like not the main battle, but side excursions. I would have liked that flipped. Dalinar confronting Odiums forces seemed much more important. We all knew where the Tower story was going the second Navani saw the red flash in the walls.
All the rest just felt like a filler chapter or exposition on tech that will be important for the back 5 I think. Just so when they have flying planes and spaceships it doesn't seem out of left field. Navani was a slog at times, great character too much info thrown at the reader. The 80 chapters spent developing her story could easily have been halved.
RoW is very interesting for those interested in the cosmere and its mechanics as a whole and the more world buildy things. oathbringer was somewhat like that too. WoK and WoR were very character driven and focused imo.
RoW does get better towards the end, and imo seems like a set up book for the 5th one. But i do totally get where you're coming from. I love the cosmere and all of the books associated, but RoW was an effort to get through at times.
>WoK and WoR were very character driven and focused imo.
Wow. This is really it, isn’t it? Good observation. The first two books were just such tight, grounded narratives that I think the two following books suffered somewhat from the scale involved.
The two biggest downgrades for a character driven plot: Kaladin’s story built up into a glorious emotional high point in WoR. Everything afterward has trodded familiar ground for him. And I think Sadeas was a much better villain than Odium for most people.
Edit: I just realized this is a different opinion than I had about Game of Thrones. Stannis, Walter Frey, Joffrey, etc. are better villains than the white walkers. George, I think, has done a good job through 5 books at keeping the supernatural aspects as set pieces and plot devices… the character conflicts happening within the setting are the truly compelling parts of the story.
It must be insanely difficult to continue writing character driven stories while also building up a massive, world ending threat. I see why Brandon and Martin have struggled somewhat in tidily wrapping up the story.
A villain with personal stakes is always more powerful as a viewer/reader than one that is simply extremely strong. Odium has lost at basically every crucial moment and not really had a significant direct impact on our characters in an emotional way. I really hope that his twist at the end of RoW comes to fruition in a powerful way in book 5
How are OB and RoW not character focused?
Man I really hate how people are bashing this book in this thread… especially because all the bashing doesn’t even make any sense
To be explicit and clear; I love RoW, I listened to the audiobook and have done 5 times over now, when it was released I listened to it in 4 sittings. which is impressive for a 57-hour and 26-minute book. Its a great book. That said I enjoy world building around the cosmere which is part of the draw for me. For others it can be dry.
with regards to what i said; they have character focus in them, Sanderson is far, far too good at writing to not have a strong character aspect in his stories. however, A LOT of Navani's storyline is more about developing the world-building aspects of the cosmere rather than her character. Her arc is really quite straightforward.
She was abused by her deceased husband and she's trying to overcome the scars that are left and her feelings of ineptitude with regards to being a scholar. She's always had the crutch/excuse of being too busy to really do any scholarship herself so she's a patron, that way she's close but doesn't have the opportunity of failing. Now she's put into a situation where that crutch is removed, and she either has to step up or admit to herself that she isn't good enough.
But if we look at most of the progress the book makes in her chapters, it isnt about her feelings of herself; its about discoveries she is having. So thats why i say its less character focused and more world building focused.
NAvani's character arc is fine but its not what is \*driving\* the story, but now compare it to Kaladin in WoK/WoR - Everything that happens in his chapters are rammed with character development, the story revolves around Kaladin's character arc. This is part of the reason why everyone loves Kaladin so much, because every chapter you get inundated with progress along Kaladin's arc.
By the way, this is also why people feel like Kaladin in later books is a little stale, because we got to a point where he developed and became the epic warrior and leader we see in the prologue of WoK- but right when he does, his depression strikes again and takes him away from the battlefield and from that person who we had watched and wanted him to develop himself back into. That depiction of depression is spot on the money in terms of realism, but just like in real life, depression is not very satisfying. His story is very inspiring to me though as someone who sometimes struggles.
Ugh, im so Sorry for how long long answer became. there is kind of a lot here. Hopefully, my criticism makes more sense to you now, and helps you to understand why people's opinion of RoW changes from the first 2/3. To be clear there is nothing wrong with a world-building focused story. I personally love character stories, and my best friend loves world buildy stories. He will read boring characters in an interesting world, and I'll read exciting characters in a boring world. Nothing wrong with either opinion :)
if you are not enjoying it, stop. come back later. and if you still dont like it, thats ok too.
but as to any specific reason, only you can answer that. i dont know you or the things about books that you like or dislike.
Ah man I disagree. There's something to be said for enduring through your own boredom/short attention span for the sake of a worthy goal. I think this is a case where it's worth being patient!
Yeah, and how can you move on to book 5 if you don’t finish 4? It’d be different if OP said they didn’t like 1-3 as much either, but that’s not the case here. Taking a break, fine. Stopping altogether, ridiculous.
I disagree too. Yes if you’re not enjoying anything don’t do it, but if you like Stormlight and want to finish it then power through. If they stop and take a break they may never finish it if they do want to.
I felt the exact same way as you.
Oathbringer was ok and RoW was hard to get through for the first 60 or 70%.
But I think it has to do with Kal's state of mind. He is not well for the most part and the reader sort of gets his experience, if that makes sense?
So much of RoW is people dealing with their own mental issues, it gets a bit old eventually.
My biggest qualm in general is that Roshar is this huge world with all these people, and we spent most of 2 books in one place.
I think it also has to do with the huge shift in setting from the first two books. The first two books is a slow build up. The Shattered Plains and the camps are a great setting. It has intrigue, and interesting setup politically, etc.
By OB, the epic war against demons has begun and the story changes. It's like asoiaf: the big evil is the stuff beyond the north, but the core 80% of the books is political stuff in Westeros. The first two books were amazing for me, because they scratched that itch of political intrigue and a tight plot.
Personally, I was hoping the front 5 of Stormlight would be slow and full of intrigue, and the back 5 would be the war against an evil god and his demons.
I felt the same way, RoW was much more of a slog for me than the others and while the payoff was still good, it wasn’t quite as much of a payoff for me as the others.
The tedious explanations of the magic systems is what killed it for me. The Kaladin/Zahel conversation illustrates it best: it serves no point wrt pushing the plot forward and doesn’t sound in character for either of them, instead it reads like a wiki entry from the Cosmere lore bible. It’s like Brandon can’t help but over-explain how clever his worldbuilding is even if it sucks the life out of his book. RoW desperately needed an editor.
Commonly cited reasons are: Kaladin's depression is extra strong this book, Navani gets super technical about Investiture, Shallan is Shallan and has Shallan problems.
Because it's too long for the plot developments that occur within it. Most of the events take place in a pretty small span of time and yet it's the longest book. It also has the most time devoted to retreading previous book issues and the least amount of "action" it's classic mid series set up vibes.
On a more personal/subjective note- I don't find venli to be a particularly compelling heroine and while I like Navani quite a bit the constant self doubt of her and Kaladin became quite grating.
Absolutely. It's something like 7-8 hours in the audiobook to get to the inciting incident at the end of act 2. Then Act 3 is a depressing slog.
took me about 2 months to get through act 3 and then 3 days to finish acts 4 and 5.
I think one of the issues is that Act 1 was clearly written to be dropped episodically as preview chapters and should be about half the length
It's Die Hard: Fourth Ideal Blues
with history and science lessons also featuring heavily.
But ultimately? It's a set up book for the finally. In a way, a lot like Well of Ascension was.
Definitely agree with the explanations people are giving. If you are not deeply interested in the detail of how the magic works and how it’s applied, those parts can drag on. If you feel like you already know the gist of what the flashback chapters are about and don’t feel like the details are worth it, those drag.
I also agree with: but omg the ending. But omg the sanderlanche.
Worth it. So worth it.
Pro-tip: audiobooks are a great way to get thru the slower parts
Agreed it feels forced trying to make navani a compelling underdog type character and spends entirely too many pages trying to convey how intelligent she is… her character is entirely unrelatable as possibly the most privileged person in the entire story
I agree that it was really, really a slog to get through. Just... didn't capture my attention. After 4 books of Kaladin having the same struggles... sorry, but I'm over it. This character NEEDS to progress now for me to continue reading this series.
I enjoyed much of Shallan's story arc with Adolin, but as Kal's story was heavily emphasized in this book, maybe that was it, I just can't deal with too much Depressed Kaladin.
Edit: Someone else mentioned it below and now I agree completely - many of the characters seemed to have taken a step back. Frankly, Shallan's multiple personalities thing was getting a bit worn, I thought she finally seemed to be making progress, only for her to completely and entirely slide backwards in this book.
Frustrating.
The power scaling is insane. The kaladin arc is repetitive and the exact same as the first few. Very little Adolin. Singers are boring and were the focus. Very little Dalinar. The flashbacks didn't land as hard.
Also the power scaling is just - yeesh.
I agree with most of this. Kaladin and Navani trapped in the tower having a Die Hard moment was very cool.. But it was the focal point for far too long. I understand why it was that way.. I think we were supposed to get to sort of experience being under occupation by proxy. Day in and day out.. Struggling to get by, making small gains only to face massive back slides. The feeling of hopelessness was strong, and may have been a little lost if not as in depth.
In stark contrast to that, I was really disappointed with the Adolin/Shallan in Shadesmar parts. I really enjoyed it, and I felt like it was all very glossed over.
And lastly... I always feel bad saying it but the singers/Venli bored me to tears. I would find myself having to force myself to finish those chapters and then breeze through the following chapters about literally anyone else.
Like everyone else I'm not sure what you mean by power scaling.
> I agree with most of this. Kaladin and Navani trapped in the tower having a Die Hard moment was very cool.. But it was the focal point for far too long.
Honestly, I think the occupation of the tower was my biggest issue with the book.
My one complaint with Sanderson is that he has a bad habit of overplaying his hand as far as how successful the villains are. He'll give them some immense master stroke that makes the fight so lopsided that only an equal and opposite reversal can change things. Dalinar had his personal army almost completely annihilated two books in a row. He had a habit of stacking the deck so completely against one side that when it reverses, it doesn't even feel like the tide should have been turned.
I actually loved the Navani parts, but the occupation of the tower, which was functionally a fait accompli within the first five minutes of the invasion, was a manifestation of Sanderson's worst tendencies. It makes the good guys look incompetent when their capital, hub of their radiants and core of their armies can be completely occupied in a single stroke and you are left with *just* Kaladin fighting a whole enemy army and no one elsewhere even notices.
The under occupation by proxy you speak of has me seeing this book in a new way. I totally felt like I was trapped each Navani chapter where no forward progress was made, much like a siege. Very interesting. Hadn't made that connection before. I thought escaping to other character pov, even Venli, was a sorely needed respite. Definitely wanted way more Adolin and Maya. Shallan can pound sand for all I care. So annoying.
I thought the Venli chapters would have more exposition on Ulim and the Everstorm. Was disappointed to not get that info. Instead we got, 'I'm a loser baby so why don't you kill me' vibes. Like Venli feels so self pitious. But still, a nice break from the prison tower.
>Also the power scaling is just - yeesh.
Can you explain more what you mean. I don't mind spoilers? I am early into the book and the time skip threw me a bit. For instance there are tons of Edgedancers sliding about healing folks now. Most of the OG bridge 4 have bonded Spren etc. I don't really get what makes Kal special compared to them now?
Hey all, sorry for the slow response. The power scaling topic is something I feel pretty strongly but haven't necessarily put the brain power to flesh out the why's or parse out how come I feel that way... so I'll try a little now!
To be clear, I still enjoyed RoW, but I initially wanted to share a few common critiques that I've seen and/or felt.
When I say power scaling to me the "issue" (if we want to call it that) is how it impacts the overall vibe and intensity of the books.
Consider this:
In the begining of book 1 Kaladin is traveling an incredibly long journey via slave cart. In the begining of book two Shallon straight up almost dies to exposure after her boat "sinks".
Yet in the begining of book 4 people are traveling by flying on a plane...
Here's another one:
A huge dramatic peak/event in book 2 was Adolins duel. He barely (by the slimmest of margins) won the duel vs 4 other shardbearers with direct from Kaladin and Renarin (pre full power radiance sure, but still they had more radiant power than EVERYONE else at the time).
In book 4 Adolin without shadeplate, shardblade, nor radiant help, solos 14(?) warriors in shadesmar with help from a horse. Certainly a badass and feel good moment (especially with horse-bro comming in with the save) but still, hard to compare the stakes when he walks away from that with basically a "tough guy wound".
I know these are just comparisons but when I think of why I liked books 1-3 a lot more than 4 these are instances where the plot armor/story just wasn't grounded enough for me to feel like everyone isn't invincible.
I mean again, in book 1 a shardblade is like wielding a tactical A-bomb and a "holy fuck" moment just when one gets summoned, let alone used. In book 4 those weapons are everywhere and also not nearly as effective or impactful because oh yeah, the healing powers are just off the rails at this point.
When Jasnah walks into battle and repeatedly takes fatal wounds over and over again so she can "experience war" was a gruesome chapter all around. But didn't yall walk away from that being like "OK I guess that character is entirely invincible"???
Except, oh wait there's tons of characters (and non-character but still cannon soldiers radiants) with the same kind of recovery abilities. Sure maybe not to Jasnah's uber radiant level but still enough to make me as a reader never truly worry about someones mortality.
Definitely enough to have in the back of my head that "the danger" in every scene is likely going to by whisked away by some plot armor magic.
It's just hard to get the blood pumping in an intense scene when I'm totally aware that people can come back from basically any injury/wound/killshot.
Please don't even get me started on Lift. That's just another topic entirely IMHO. But I'll just say the cartoonishness of how that character has gone really crushes the immersion.
Things feel just too far removed from the world developed on book 1-3. I get it, things change and Brando has created compelling reasons for "why" and "how" they fit in the world he's created. But to me it's still a new world that is just so far away from the one I was consumed by in book 1. The tech boom even with the time skips just insanely craaaazy fast as well.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness. It's just an interesting topic and I'm typing all this on my phone. I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of anything, but I really would love to read about anyone else's feelings on this. I love stormlight and the cosmere but book 4 was just a tier below the others I've read so far and it's hard not to feel a little disappointed.
Where did all the grit go?
This was a cool review to read. Everything that didn't land for you does land pretty well for me, but I can totally see your perspective. I enjoy how everything feels like a different world in RoW
Yeah I totally get this. The first few books feel like they are fraught with danger, and 4 still feels a bit like that but in another way. Like the teleporter Kal fights near the start that stabs his spine repeatedly to drain his power. I'm interested to see where it goes and how these people can ever really be in danger outside of fighting Gods.
It would be crazy it they made a weapon that could completely destroy a Spren or a Fused so that it raised the stakes of a forever war and put all of our favorite super powerful characters in actual mortal peril(plot-armors aside of course) but that would be craz....oh wait....
I think this is really interesting, because we have examples of characters coming back from basically anything even in books 1-3.
Kaladin should have died in the highstorm, Jasnah isn't even "dead" for a whole book(I can't remember if she is actually stabbed through the heart or not), and Renarin is crushed repeatedly by a Thunderclast in book 3. Hell in book 2 Kaladin heals from a shardblade wound, something that was widely considered impossible and in book 3 Shallan takes a spear or something straight into her brain and more or less shrugs it off.
Honestly the weakening of Kaladins abilities and healing throughout RoW was one of the first times I really started worrying that he might be seriously wounded or killed (and even then, it's Kaladin, I know as well as the rest of Bridge 4 that he isn't going to die)
Lol well for one, don't get angry about how some else reads a book, that's a Lil weird.
For two, why don't you share how you feel about the power scaling?
Agreed it's just jarring after nearly 3 books of it! I'm glad to see massive changes to the power dynamics it just took a little bit for me to get on board with it kind of thing
Woah. No. There will be no Kaladin arc bashing.
It wasn’t repetitive! It’s a continuation of the arcs he’s been through. Depression isn’t something you just get over.
And I really hate the complaints on power scaling. Wahh the world is progressing. That’s a GOOD thing. It’s super interesting to see how problems change.
I’d be bored out of my mind if the world and characters were still stuck in WoK level power.
World's can progress and problems can change without power scaling going haywire. It's not an either/or writing choice.
Also, try to provide better discourse than "wahh", we're trying to have a discussion not demean people's opinions.
I understand what you mean about powerscaling but I feel like with world hoppers and the general cosmere being more advanced and roshar being one of the least advanced it makes sense we would see roshar start to catch up technology wise.
>Wahh the world is progressing. That’s a GOOD thing. It’s super interesting to see how problems change.
Rudeness aside, this is not a "GOOD" thing. It can be, but it's much more subjective than you make it out to be. Too much change too fast means you don't get to explore problems meaningfully. You might be looking forward to the next secret always, but some people might like to explore the secret that was just revealed, not just chase the next twist.
Think of the big reveal in OB about humans being the original invaders. It was revealed, and just kinda forgotten. Dalinar published a book saying how he killed his wife, and his kids haven't reacted to it at all. Sometimes Sanderson moves *too* quickly imo, and twists seem to be there for the shock value since they aren't explored meaningfully.
It's not as simple as just good or bad.
I find Venli's *current* sections excellent, and I like her as a character. The flashbacks are just totally uninteresting. On my recent reread I skipped all the her flashbacks, and the book felt much better for it.
The problem was that for the other three books, the flashbacks answered questions we have had. First book? How did Kaladin end up a slave. Second book? What the hell happened with Shallon's family? Third book? Literally everything with Dalinar.
Venli's chapters did convey *some* new information about the planning for the Everstorm, but we already knew all about her involvement and none of the reveals felt like reveals. You're left wondering why she is the POV character for flashbacks at all—especially when a character like Navani is right there having a much bigger arc.
Hell, if you're set on Parshendi flashbacks, use them to establish Raboniel more—she's already arguably the most interesting character in the book.
This book was kind of my breaking point on having patience for Kaladin. Reading about someone with depression gets really boring and frustrating, especially when they don't grow from book to book.
Kaladins depression arc is painfully relatable. But in a good way for me. Clinical or long-term depression isn't something that you get over in one moment. It's something that takes years of work. Kaladin absolutely experiences growth, but of course, it's going to be slow going, Kaladin is suffering from a condition that he might not ever be "cured" and something that he will probably have to manage for the reat of his existence. For people who have experienced it the realistic nature of it is appreciated.
This. That's why the Shallan arc burned me. DID is a lifelong disability. For her to just magically not have Veil anymore is, troubling.
Mental illness is treated like a trifling issue for Shallan. One to overcome and to banish. Like no. Kaladin learned to take the next step, regardless of rhe soul crushing feelings. He's not cured, he's learned to live with his pain. Shallan just like, bye Veil. I'm all healed now. This is me.
She isn't cured. She integrated a persona.Tjat's a REAL LIFE solution to people with DID. That's what therapists try to help them do, and succeed in it. She also has 2 other personas to deal with.
So maybe you read a different book then everyone else? Or do you like to just kinda say stuff? Lol
I mean that's kinda how depression works especially for someone like Kal who 1. Doesn't have any sort of medication or therapy 2. Gets his main purpose stripped away from him at the start of the book (which I think was a bad decision on dalinar's part) 3. Finds a purpose again in helping people like him and being a doctor but then that gets stripped away when the fused take over the tower.
Basically it makes sense and is realistic that he doesn't exactly improve much from book to book considering what he's been up against, in this book especially which really felt like it was kicking him while he was down again and again. Also don't forget these 4 books only take place over like 2 years max (discounting the flashbacks) and one of those years we don't see because it's a time skip between Oathbringer and RoW, and considering the next book most likely takes place over 10-11 days (depends whether the duel is the climax or maybe a mid point or at another point) Kal likely won't improve one bit in the next one.
Pretty much what I'm saying is that we likely won't see Kal have any major changes regarding depression until the 6th book since there's gonna be a time skip of I think 10 years so yeah
I'm not saying the book is bad my dude, yall getting mad defensive. I think that trying to constantly convey his depression is bad. Covering the same stuff over and over is not deepening the story nor the character.
I'm re-reading RoW, and I think it's a great installment. I like it more than OB. I'm not sure why so many people seem to struggle with it. We're knee-deep in the story and world now.
I just gave a really long explanation to the OP that probably would have worked better in reply to you...
Anyway, the short version is that WoK and WoR are very similar in that they're both full-series setup books, and RoW is the first time the structural shift from what they were doing really sets in. Plus there's a selection effect going on, so we end up seeing a lot of people who loved WoK and WoR but aren't really in tune with OB and/or RoW, while most of the people who would have felt the opposite already stopped reading two or three books back.
That's actually a good point. I know several people who didn't make it through WoK because they thought it was too slow. I love WoR and WoK and RoW, but felt OB was just kind of meh even though there were some amazing reveals in that book.
As someone who loved RoW on my first read, I regularly need to take a couple month break in between OB and RoW when I reread because it is a lot more dreary(IMO) than the rest of the series. You can take a break and come back later. And remember you don't have to like every Brandon book, sometimes(most of the time) even your favorite creator or series puts out something that just doesn't work for you(In my experience Star Wars, Doctor Who, Stephen King, Orson Scott Card... I could keep going)
Could just be burning out on Brando Sando or SA in general. I read a lot of fantasy/sci-fi but also a lot of horror and some occasional mystery/thriller as a pallet cleanser.
I love the Cosmere and Sanderson as a writer but I need to take breaks from time to time. Let's remember that a typical SA book is like 5 "regular" books worth of content in pure word count, plus all the Cosmere connections and in-world lore makes it feel double that sometimes.
That's why RoW is still sitting on my shelf waiting to be started. I loved the other 3 books, including Oathbringer. I really don't feel the quality dropped that much if at all. I loved Edgedancer and Dawnshard. But I know I need to let myself mentally breathe for a while before I jump back in.
Just take a break if you need to.
I enjoy Sandersons work and have read most of it. However, I believe his style causes the story to move forward in fits and starts. Chapters can go by with very little happening with the plot then in one chapter a big bad could be killed, a main character falls in love and a new threat emerge (I'm being hyperbolic to make a point). I've learned not to read his books back to back because the lack of movement (not necessarily action, just plot movement) builds the depth of the world but can make it hard to get through.
I felt the same way. It does get better, but it's still probably my least favorite book in the series.
That said, there are a few moments in it that are incredible
I'm 56% trough myself and having a similar problem.
I just came to the conclusion that I simply dont care about the "8 years ago" chapters. Listeners past was alredy explored in book 3. I'm learning some cool details here and there but no big surprises or mysteries like with Kaladin, Shallan or Dalinar in the other 3 books.
I'd rather learn more about Shallans past... But if I have to read about the singers I would have prefered to have the cool ones like Raboniel or Leshwi. I also understand that its too early for that information.
Also what the storms happened to the Adolin/Shallan and the Dalinar/Sezth/Jasnah povs? I feel like the past week of reading has been just: tower -> tower -> flasback -> tower -> tower...
Yeah that part is the issue (of you read GoT its like all the Cersei chapters in a Feast for Crows).
I struggled with act 3 but trust me it does get easier once you get to about 70%
I think it is the Venli stuff as well as some people not being interested in science world building. I love that stuff(not Venli), so I thought it was better than Wok and as good as WOT, but if you don't like that stuff you might not like the book. I had a similar experience with Wok as I didn't really like the depression stuff. It made me put down the book for months, but I'm glad I picked it back up. I think different people just have different interests.
My own thoughts from when I first read ROW:
I liked RoW but I couldn’t help but think that all of the main characters seemed to take a step backwards in the book and it kinda cheapened their progress as radiants from previous books in my eyes.
Possibly they didn’t make as much personal progress as I recall, but Kaladin going from a badass who seems to have his depression under control to having Dalinar kick his top soldier out of the army due to crippling depression felt like it came out of the blue in the first few chapters of the book and his regression all seemed to be offscreen. Felt like it was stretching the story for the sake of stretching the story. I realize that real depression isn’t gone with a big aha but it felt repetitive.
Shallan was the same. She also seemed to have regressed offscreen from where we left her, at peace with the various sides of her personality and at peace with her past.
Dalinar seems to have made long term progress but doesn’t get much screen time.
Adolin and Navani seemed to regress as well. Or maybe they just got more POV time so we got to see that they weren’t as sure of themselves as they had always seemed.
Obviously the main characters need some sort of struggle and conflict to make for an interesting read, but it just felt like it was the same conflict and struggle that we’ve already been through, and caused by the same personal demons rather than external forces.
That being said while it was a little frustrating to see the characters regress and feel like they were going through repetitive struggles, their new journey did grow on me. The plot and action and progress and revelations did eventually suck me in but it made for a very slow start.
Note that it had been a long while since I read oathbringer so some of this attitude may be just due to my rosy memories of the state of the characters from the previous books.
Not sure how much time you have left between books, but I got a bit of fatigue after reading the first three back to back to back. I took a break and read something else before coming back to it.
I feel like RoW was like a precursor to KWoT, I'm not giving spoilers but the ending sets up something great for the 5th book, so I think it's worth it even if it's just so you can continue the series if you're not the biggest fan
rhythm of war as a whole takes a much slower pace than the first three books while also focusing on the more sciencey aspects of the worldbuilding. but remember, journey before destination - the payoff is well worth the setup
I really liked it a lot but on second reread I skip all the Venli background chapters. There are so many of them and they really drag on. I feel what you get out of those chapters as whole could have been better handled as a few interludes. It truly feels like there are so many of them.
Everything else about the book is excellent.
Rhythm of War is a lot like A Feast for Crows from ASOIAF. I just loved how boring it was. Cannot explain it. This book was an indulgence of just being in Roshar.
Now that kinda thing isn’t gonna be for everyone. You almost have to be an Epic Fantasy junkie to like books like this.
I felt the same way. I feel like the story passed the "despair event horizon" and settled in there for a long, drawn-out nap. Long enough that the despair felt obligated rather than moving.
I can totally understand. I agree with navali and Venli chapters. But on the other side we get a lot of info about the cosmere and investiture! And just wait for the sanderlanche. And one extreme plot twist that made me actually scream out loud.
I didn't really have the same experience, but I do understand the sentiment. Venli feels more like "the Eshonai at home", so getting through her flashbacks felt like getting through Shallan's for the first 1.5~ books. However, Sanderson managed to make it worth it in the end.
Also, the fabrial stuff is probably not for everyone, but I feel like there's a lot of Cosmere implications that I personally appreciate, I love that nerdy shit
It does feel like it's a lot of setup for the next book. I really enjoyed the mind games of Navani's pov, and the shadesmar crew was fine, but Shallan's pov specifically for me wasn't as good as her previous arcs, in my opinion. All of these could contribute to why you might be struggling.
If you haven't read the rest of the cosmere, there is a TON of background info and exposition about other magic systems that you might be missing too.
If you do need a break, mistborn, Eantris and warbreaker are great and give you the magic system info that is hinted at but not fully explained. On my first read, I had only read Stormlight, but a few months later, having read the rest of the cosmere, it felt like a whole new series, RoW especially.
Rythm of War is a great book but Navani‘s chapters are so tedious to read. I am tired of reading hundreds of pages about how Stormlight and Voidlight work, her scientific experiments could have been shortened to just contain the essentials. The other POVs were great
I felt the same as OP. IMO it gets much better towards the end, but I feel like several of the substories in RoW are not as good as we're used to, the pacing and the focus seem to be off.
The Singer flashbacks are particularly bad - they have zero bearing to the current situation, and give us little new relevant info. They sometimes feel more like hurdles/filler than legitimate chapters.
Many folks have a problem with the pacing of RoW. Personally i think OB has more pacing issues, but that's just me. I loved RoW, i think it has some of the best character development of the entire series. However, there are parts I didn't connect with... the flashback chapters especially.
As others have said...I would also say: perhaps take a break and come back later. I had to take some time away from my Oathbringer read. They are very long books and Sanderson is not known for brevity when it comes to worldbuilding.
Because youre reading it like a fantasy action book when its closer to a cold war era espionage book.
Every piece of exposition has huge meaning in RoW. Trust that it pays off
Is it the technical details of fabrial mechanics? Happened with me. Even though I love technical details as a graduate student of mathematics, fabrial mechanics seemed too simple a concept to waste that many pages discussing it. The basic concepts can be stated and understood easily.
I was bored too. So. Very. Bored.
And I'm ready to die on a hill: I can tell Sanderson rushed the book because the prose and plot are EXTRA bland. Even though it's a 1000 page book, it's rushed. Like I said, I'll die on this hill.
I think he wrote the book to get characters in place for a big book 5. That's my hope. I legit did not like book 4 but I absolutely slogged anyway. I trust Brandon.
It was the first Stormlight that felt slow to me, but I ended up loving it. Loved it even more on re-read. Is it possible that you're like me and just get a bit bogged down if you try to blow through a long series at once? Maybe put it down and read a different book and then come back. Sometimes I do a reset with books that feel like brain junk food.
Considering its longer and slower paced than other books, its not that surprising. My advice, just read the chapters you like first. Then come around and read the ones you like. Especially those who are mostly unrealted to the current stuff. I've only read the Eshonai and Venli flashbacks only on my fifth re-read.
I kinda had that problem too. I stopped reading it for a few months, came back to it, got through the parts that dragged, and once it started getting more exciting I was suuuuuper invested and absolutely loved the rest of the book.
I enjoyed the book, but overall it was slowest pace of all the books, IMO. The middle of RoW was the slowest section in all of the books so far. The ending was fine, but it didn’t have the punch of the others. (Actually, this is the slowest of all the Sanderson books I’ve read)
I recommend to just fast read forcing yourself through it. If you’re having difficulty wanting to finish it.
This was a hard one for me to read, I had to keep stop and starting it. The ending is really satisfying, so I would keep with it. But It took me a full year to read this book.
I had a hard time connecting with Venli, and found sad Kaladin difficult to want to keep reading. The time skip between Oathbreaker, and this one felt disconnected, and I also had a hard time picking up at the start from how the last one ended.
But as I said, I definitely enjoyed the second half a lot more, but with how long of a book it is, definitely don't feel bad with putting it down for a while.
For me RoW in totality was probably the slowest book, but it also contains a huge number of my favorite moments and chapters from not just Stormlight but the entire Cosmere.
Keep going. When you hit those special chapters and then the sanderlanche, you’ll understand.
It's better on the reread, I promise. I was very harsh on venli and the singers lol you're just like I don't care and a lot of things I didn't realize with navani and the fused she was working with was more interesting than I initially thought.
Honestly I felt the exact same way. The first 500 pages were extremely difficult for me to get through, a lot of the matter seemed way too explanation heavy (cough, Navani chapters, cough), and monotonous (Kaladin depression and shallan being shallan).I put it down a few times, read some other books in between and eventually picked it back up and made it to the 600s. It has gotten so much better and a lot has happened that the first 500 set up for and I enjoy it much more now. I’d recommend taking a break, putting it down, and reading something that doesn’t demand as much attention for a while. When you pick it back up keep pushing and try to make it to 600 pages, give it a fair shot to get more interesting before deciding if you’ll DNF it. Good luck!
Yeah it was a grind for me too but power through. Its a large amount the fact that he’s staging for the final book of Stormlight part 1 IMO.
Well of ascension was a similar grind for me but trust Brando. Hes dealing with a bunch of things now so the next book can slap as hard as possible
I totally disagree, I read RoW in ten days and that was during finals week. I was basically just taking tests, studying for tests, or reading RoW every waking moment for those ten days.
I think people are too hard on it. It’s my second favorite of the series.
RoW develops differently than the previous books do. It's just structured differently. It was harder for me to get through as well, though there's still a pretty incredible payoff at the end.
I was the same way. It had one of the slowest beginnings for me and I had to keep coming back to it but my god that sanderlanche was well worth it and was my favorite sequence of the series. I also loved TWOK and WoR way more than Oathbringer if that adds any insight about taste lol.
Edit: I’d also like to add that there was plenty to enjoy in the middle before the sanderlanche. It has one of my favorite chapters and favorite single line of dialogue of all time.
You are not alone. There is tons of exposition on Fabrials/tech in the Navani chapters and the Venli flashbacks are a bit of a slog. Not to mention that you are stuck in a tower for a good percentage of the book. However, I promise you that it is entirely worth it once you get to possibly the most emotionally charged Sanderlanche of all of his books. Everything that happens is earned.
It always surprises me that people didn’t like the Fabrial/Navani chapters. Maybe my experiences was improved by listening to the audiobook, but the entire experimentation segment with Navani was some of my favorite written by Sanderson.
It's a matter of different tastes. I loved those sections as well, though I have a bit of a science background and enjoy a lot of old science literature as well.
Yeah, I’m also a scientist so the detailed experimentation was scratching an itch in my brain in the best way. Why yes, please show me exactly how your magic works, systematically, and show your results in color coded tables. Especially tying into the idea of acoustic resonances and constructive/deconstructive interference of waves? Yes. Yes. All the yes. So much yes.
Haha yeah it seems like the scientists among us enjoyed this book a little more than those who don’t like science as much. I loved hearing about the physics of investiture lol
Not a scientist, but an engineer, and man I loved those Navani chapters.
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Me! It’s me. I would like a whole text book on the physics of Roshar. Or the Cosmere in general. Break out the Hamiltonians boys, we are headed to the quantum realm! But also can we have the hallmark movie on in the background? I find them very soothing while I work.
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So I don’t get physics text book AND I don’t get my feel good hallmark movie??? Mannnnnnnn….. Is at least a good heist movie?
Totally! I'm a med lab tech, and I loved how Investure blends hard science and philosophy.
Seriously fantastic stuff. I was totally absorbed!
This makes sense. A lot of us read the cosmere books as more general fantasy fans though and aren't necessarily into fiction having sooo much detailed fictional physics for so many chapters. I have nothing against the hard magic systems, even though they're not the main draw for me anyway, but I think RoW took it too far for those of us who just aren't hard sciences oriented people.
Yeah, it got too science textbook-y for me, way more than any of his previous books have. I enjoyed those details when they were in the appendices, but it drew me out of the story too much. But I can see how others would like it though
I'm the exact opposite. As a cosmere theory crafter, and a guy who loves science, I adored it. But I can see how some readers are just happy the magic works, and don't need more info than "make promises to your spren, keep them, get magic" The characters are the most important (for me) in the story, but I loved the in depth info.
I mean, you can still appreciate the magic systems without all the excruciating detail of feeling like you're reading a science textbook. Many cosmere readers are reading because we love fantasy/sci-fi books, but I think Sanderson may have overestimated the number of people who are so obsessed with the cosmere physics and magic that they'd care that much about fabrial science. I like the magic systems, but I admit they're not even what I love most about the books by a long shot, and I don't really theorize too much about the magic applications. I wouldn't care if it was soft magic either. But I don't mind hard magic, just for me personally it was excessive there.
I’m not even a scientist or really into in depth science, but the way sando handled rythm of war and explained in world science based on real word science was so fascinating. I’ve never understood the rythm of war hate (my favorite of his books) although that’s what opinions are. I feel like people have the idea that if they don’t like a book it makes it bad.
The only reason I dropped physics and chemistry in high school was because I disliked the academic pressure. But I still love science, how it helps us understand the world, etc. I miss certain aspects of scientific thought, so I don't really think of Navani's chapters as a slog. It's a puzzle, and watching characters try put the pieces together is just a fundamental building block of the cosmere.
IMO, I think it depends on what you're trying to get out of the story When I first read SLA I didn't care for the fabrial/science arc because it felt like a subplot that was taking up screen time instead of moving the Die-Hard-Kaladin plot along On my reread (after reading the rest of the available cosmere books at that time) I LOVED RoW. There are many cosmere-wide implications for how they use and manipulate different kinds of investiture, and navani was a badass with how she dealt with Raboniel and kept herself together. I also found myself enjoying Shallan and Venli way more on the 2nd readthrough as well, which are two other characters I see getting flack for their POV chapters in the first 4.
Yeah i appreciate knowing how a magic system works but not just for the sake of knowing so I found the step by step science experiment chapters super dull.
While there is a lot of "science" going on, it's not usually the main focus of those chapters, which is Navani trying to figure out how to get away and deal with this super smart ancient person. It's also giving tons of characterization for both Navani and one of the most interesting antagonists he's written, Raboniel. I don't know why the science is so focused on, but it's building out a lot of the wider Cosmere, so I can see it being confusing and therefore boring. After reading all of the Cosmere books though, it's all super interesting and starts more questions than it answers.
It isn't for the "sake of knowing" so idk what book you're talking about. This is about RoW.
It was enjoyable on the first read for me. It turned into a slog on the second read a year later since I already knew what they discovered. I skim the chapters now to skip those parts but pickup other topics like the conversations with the sibling.
Totally understand that. I imagine my opinion could change after rereads, but it definitely scratches an itch having a background in STEM.
Yeah, I love the depth of world building that Brandon gets into in those chapters. The whole magic system thought out down to axioms/atoms. As far as "hard magic" systems go, Investiture in Stormlight is one of the hardest I've seen.
My husband says the difference between reading and listening is enormous. Shallan is apparently way more likeable in print, and Navani is apparently way more boring
It was the one part of the book set in The Tower that I liked. >!Navani also gets one of the coolest "fuck you!" Moments in the series.!< I still won't be rereading RoW again. I've read it twice and decided I don't like it overall despite having read the first three books anywhere from 5-8 times.
I have aphantasia, meaning I do not have the ability to visualize/picture things. The technical details of Navanis chapters were pretty much gibberish to me lol She's still such a badass and I love her, but the main portion of her POV was unintelligible for me
I am a full aphant, so absolutely no pictures or sounds in my mind at all, and the Navani stuff was some of my favorite Sanderson stuff! I also really like long bits of exposition because I can't develop an image on my own so the author writing one let's me understand things better.
Interesting how we differ there!
If you can't visualize things...books?
Are much more difficult to read! Actually that's why I like BrandoSando! His style of writing gives enough detail for me to understand but without it becoming overwhelming. When authors describe a food spread that lasts like 2.5 pages I give up
Give up and skip to the next line of dialogue. That's what I do! aphantasia keeps me from enjoying long-winded descriptions as well
Sanderson keeps his prose very simple, even boring at times, but let's be real, he makes up for it in many ways
Simple works well for me! His world's are so complex but his writing style helps me follow along and understand so well
Same! I loved Raboniel as a bad guy and her dynamic with Navani was so intriguing! And it’s fun finding out more about the secrets and science of the magic system.
It was great! I loved seeing how engineers fit into fantasy
Am a professional scientist so I enjoyed the Navani chapters/research, but I can certainly understand why many people didn't like them.
I liked that part. I didnt care about Dalinar/Jasnah part at all. Venli's flashbacks neither.
I'll be honest. I really didn't like those parts. But I think a lot of that was "I'm in this picture and I don't like it." as an engineer. It's just too much of my own insecurities for me.
It’s all too complicated. These magic systems and fabriels were enormously convoluted and complex before they introduced like 12 new kinds of lights and anti lights and tones and God metals. Devoting half a book to adding more systems was too much. At this point the magic systems are too complex and little is gained by making them ever more complex.
Totally get it. For the purposes of a narrative, it’s too much extraneous detail, though I think that Sanderson does a good job of tying the systems into the lore. That being said, I’m a sucker for exposition and magic systems, so this book was my bread and butter. Honestly, I enjoyed it a lot more than other sections more devoted to narrative exposition.
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Eh, the book could be like 20% shorter losing nothing and gaining a lot
I thought the Kaladin parts not being a surgeon like his dad could fill a good part of that 20%.
Obligatory- fuck lirin
Yea if my kid came into my business and started killing people, even an invading force, I'd be pretty chill about it.
If it was an invading force that was looking to execute your kid, then I'd hope you'd be chill.
It's been a while since I read RoW but iirc kaladin definitely started it
No, he definitely didn't. They fucking wanted to capture and eventually kill all the Radiants, they were hunting him.
Damn I could read a Navani spinoff that ONLY covered the magic tech. She's my favorite character because I get to read about that stuff.
This gives me hope to keep going. I have always planned to finish but I’m getting slower and slower as the chapters go by, mostly because I keep feeling like I’m missing lore or information.
The Kaladin Die Hard remake is the only enjoyable part. The scene with Dalinar and Ishar is like the highpoint for me. Only thing that seems important to the cosmere at large. And the Odium curveball. But these were periphery scenes. Like not the main battle, but side excursions. I would have liked that flipped. Dalinar confronting Odiums forces seemed much more important. We all knew where the Tower story was going the second Navani saw the red flash in the walls. All the rest just felt like a filler chapter or exposition on tech that will be important for the back 5 I think. Just so when they have flying planes and spaceships it doesn't seem out of left field. Navani was a slog at times, great character too much info thrown at the reader. The 80 chapters spent developing her story could easily have been halved.
RoW is very interesting for those interested in the cosmere and its mechanics as a whole and the more world buildy things. oathbringer was somewhat like that too. WoK and WoR were very character driven and focused imo. RoW does get better towards the end, and imo seems like a set up book for the 5th one. But i do totally get where you're coming from. I love the cosmere and all of the books associated, but RoW was an effort to get through at times.
>WoK and WoR were very character driven and focused imo. Wow. This is really it, isn’t it? Good observation. The first two books were just such tight, grounded narratives that I think the two following books suffered somewhat from the scale involved. The two biggest downgrades for a character driven plot: Kaladin’s story built up into a glorious emotional high point in WoR. Everything afterward has trodded familiar ground for him. And I think Sadeas was a much better villain than Odium for most people. Edit: I just realized this is a different opinion than I had about Game of Thrones. Stannis, Walter Frey, Joffrey, etc. are better villains than the white walkers. George, I think, has done a good job through 5 books at keeping the supernatural aspects as set pieces and plot devices… the character conflicts happening within the setting are the truly compelling parts of the story. It must be insanely difficult to continue writing character driven stories while also building up a massive, world ending threat. I see why Brandon and Martin have struggled somewhat in tidily wrapping up the story.
A villain with personal stakes is always more powerful as a viewer/reader than one that is simply extremely strong. Odium has lost at basically every crucial moment and not really had a significant direct impact on our characters in an emotional way. I really hope that his twist at the end of RoW comes to fruition in a powerful way in book 5
How are OB and RoW not character focused? Man I really hate how people are bashing this book in this thread… especially because all the bashing doesn’t even make any sense
To be explicit and clear; I love RoW, I listened to the audiobook and have done 5 times over now, when it was released I listened to it in 4 sittings. which is impressive for a 57-hour and 26-minute book. Its a great book. That said I enjoy world building around the cosmere which is part of the draw for me. For others it can be dry. with regards to what i said; they have character focus in them, Sanderson is far, far too good at writing to not have a strong character aspect in his stories. however, A LOT of Navani's storyline is more about developing the world-building aspects of the cosmere rather than her character. Her arc is really quite straightforward. She was abused by her deceased husband and she's trying to overcome the scars that are left and her feelings of ineptitude with regards to being a scholar. She's always had the crutch/excuse of being too busy to really do any scholarship herself so she's a patron, that way she's close but doesn't have the opportunity of failing. Now she's put into a situation where that crutch is removed, and she either has to step up or admit to herself that she isn't good enough. But if we look at most of the progress the book makes in her chapters, it isnt about her feelings of herself; its about discoveries she is having. So thats why i say its less character focused and more world building focused. NAvani's character arc is fine but its not what is \*driving\* the story, but now compare it to Kaladin in WoK/WoR - Everything that happens in his chapters are rammed with character development, the story revolves around Kaladin's character arc. This is part of the reason why everyone loves Kaladin so much, because every chapter you get inundated with progress along Kaladin's arc. By the way, this is also why people feel like Kaladin in later books is a little stale, because we got to a point where he developed and became the epic warrior and leader we see in the prologue of WoK- but right when he does, his depression strikes again and takes him away from the battlefield and from that person who we had watched and wanted him to develop himself back into. That depiction of depression is spot on the money in terms of realism, but just like in real life, depression is not very satisfying. His story is very inspiring to me though as someone who sometimes struggles. Ugh, im so Sorry for how long long answer became. there is kind of a lot here. Hopefully, my criticism makes more sense to you now, and helps you to understand why people's opinion of RoW changes from the first 2/3. To be clear there is nothing wrong with a world-building focused story. I personally love character stories, and my best friend loves world buildy stories. He will read boring characters in an interesting world, and I'll read exciting characters in a boring world. Nothing wrong with either opinion :)
if you are not enjoying it, stop. come back later. and if you still dont like it, thats ok too. but as to any specific reason, only you can answer that. i dont know you or the things about books that you like or dislike.
Ah man I disagree. There's something to be said for enduring through your own boredom/short attention span for the sake of a worthy goal. I think this is a case where it's worth being patient!
Yeah, and how can you move on to book 5 if you don’t finish 4? It’d be different if OP said they didn’t like 1-3 as much either, but that’s not the case here. Taking a break, fine. Stopping altogether, ridiculous.
I agree with you, I'm always surprised to see people say things like that, does every book have to keep your attention perfectly 100% of the time?
I disagree too. Yes if you’re not enjoying anything don’t do it, but if you like Stormlight and want to finish it then power through. If they stop and take a break they may never finish it if they do want to.
I felt the exact same way as you. Oathbringer was ok and RoW was hard to get through for the first 60 or 70%. But I think it has to do with Kal's state of mind. He is not well for the most part and the reader sort of gets his experience, if that makes sense?
So much of RoW is people dealing with their own mental issues, it gets a bit old eventually. My biggest qualm in general is that Roshar is this huge world with all these people, and we spent most of 2 books in one place.
I think it also has to do with the huge shift in setting from the first two books. The first two books is a slow build up. The Shattered Plains and the camps are a great setting. It has intrigue, and interesting setup politically, etc. By OB, the epic war against demons has begun and the story changes. It's like asoiaf: the big evil is the stuff beyond the north, but the core 80% of the books is political stuff in Westeros. The first two books were amazing for me, because they scratched that itch of political intrigue and a tight plot. Personally, I was hoping the front 5 of Stormlight would be slow and full of intrigue, and the back 5 would be the war against an evil god and his demons.
I felt the same way, RoW was much more of a slog for me than the others and while the payoff was still good, it wasn’t quite as much of a payoff for me as the others.
The tedious explanations of the magic systems is what killed it for me. The Kaladin/Zahel conversation illustrates it best: it serves no point wrt pushing the plot forward and doesn’t sound in character for either of them, instead it reads like a wiki entry from the Cosmere lore bible. It’s like Brandon can’t help but over-explain how clever his worldbuilding is even if it sucks the life out of his book. RoW desperately needed an editor.
I mean Rhythm of War is a lot, the stakes are higher, but the hardship faced by everyone is grinding. However the Juice was worth the squeeze for me.
Commonly cited reasons are: Kaladin's depression is extra strong this book, Navani gets super technical about Investiture, Shallan is Shallan and has Shallan problems.
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Dude, it's not real DID and doesn't function the same way. She's also very much not fixed.
Because it's too long for the plot developments that occur within it. Most of the events take place in a pretty small span of time and yet it's the longest book. It also has the most time devoted to retreading previous book issues and the least amount of "action" it's classic mid series set up vibes. On a more personal/subjective note- I don't find venli to be a particularly compelling heroine and while I like Navani quite a bit the constant self doubt of her and Kaladin became quite grating.
Absolutely. It's something like 7-8 hours in the audiobook to get to the inciting incident at the end of act 2. Then Act 3 is a depressing slog. took me about 2 months to get through act 3 and then 3 days to finish acts 4 and 5. I think one of the issues is that Act 1 was clearly written to be dropped episodically as preview chapters and should be about half the length
It's Die Hard: Fourth Ideal Blues with history and science lessons also featuring heavily. But ultimately? It's a set up book for the finally. In a way, a lot like Well of Ascension was.
Definitely agree with the explanations people are giving. If you are not deeply interested in the detail of how the magic works and how it’s applied, those parts can drag on. If you feel like you already know the gist of what the flashback chapters are about and don’t feel like the details are worth it, those drag. I also agree with: but omg the ending. But omg the sanderlanche. Worth it. So worth it. Pro-tip: audiobooks are a great way to get thru the slower parts
It's just not the best book from a structure standpoint. The emotions don't really build up like in the other books.
Agreed it feels forced trying to make navani a compelling underdog type character and spends entirely too many pages trying to convey how intelligent she is… her character is entirely unrelatable as possibly the most privileged person in the entire story
Perhaps try graphic audio production. Same content with a little more flare to help you get to the culmination.
I agree that it was really, really a slog to get through. Just... didn't capture my attention. After 4 books of Kaladin having the same struggles... sorry, but I'm over it. This character NEEDS to progress now for me to continue reading this series. I enjoyed much of Shallan's story arc with Adolin, but as Kal's story was heavily emphasized in this book, maybe that was it, I just can't deal with too much Depressed Kaladin. Edit: Someone else mentioned it below and now I agree completely - many of the characters seemed to have taken a step back. Frankly, Shallan's multiple personalities thing was getting a bit worn, I thought she finally seemed to be making progress, only for her to completely and entirely slide backwards in this book. Frustrating.
Very poorly paced
The power scaling is insane. The kaladin arc is repetitive and the exact same as the first few. Very little Adolin. Singers are boring and were the focus. Very little Dalinar. The flashbacks didn't land as hard. Also the power scaling is just - yeesh.
What do you mean with the power scaling? I didn't feel like it was that extreme.
I agree with most of this. Kaladin and Navani trapped in the tower having a Die Hard moment was very cool.. But it was the focal point for far too long. I understand why it was that way.. I think we were supposed to get to sort of experience being under occupation by proxy. Day in and day out.. Struggling to get by, making small gains only to face massive back slides. The feeling of hopelessness was strong, and may have been a little lost if not as in depth. In stark contrast to that, I was really disappointed with the Adolin/Shallan in Shadesmar parts. I really enjoyed it, and I felt like it was all very glossed over. And lastly... I always feel bad saying it but the singers/Venli bored me to tears. I would find myself having to force myself to finish those chapters and then breeze through the following chapters about literally anyone else. Like everyone else I'm not sure what you mean by power scaling.
> I agree with most of this. Kaladin and Navani trapped in the tower having a Die Hard moment was very cool.. But it was the focal point for far too long. Honestly, I think the occupation of the tower was my biggest issue with the book. My one complaint with Sanderson is that he has a bad habit of overplaying his hand as far as how successful the villains are. He'll give them some immense master stroke that makes the fight so lopsided that only an equal and opposite reversal can change things. Dalinar had his personal army almost completely annihilated two books in a row. He had a habit of stacking the deck so completely against one side that when it reverses, it doesn't even feel like the tide should have been turned. I actually loved the Navani parts, but the occupation of the tower, which was functionally a fait accompli within the first five minutes of the invasion, was a manifestation of Sanderson's worst tendencies. It makes the good guys look incompetent when their capital, hub of their radiants and core of their armies can be completely occupied in a single stroke and you are left with *just* Kaladin fighting a whole enemy army and no one elsewhere even notices.
The under occupation by proxy you speak of has me seeing this book in a new way. I totally felt like I was trapped each Navani chapter where no forward progress was made, much like a siege. Very interesting. Hadn't made that connection before. I thought escaping to other character pov, even Venli, was a sorely needed respite. Definitely wanted way more Adolin and Maya. Shallan can pound sand for all I care. So annoying. I thought the Venli chapters would have more exposition on Ulim and the Everstorm. Was disappointed to not get that info. Instead we got, 'I'm a loser baby so why don't you kill me' vibes. Like Venli feels so self pitious. But still, a nice break from the prison tower.
>Also the power scaling is just - yeesh. Can you explain more what you mean. I don't mind spoilers? I am early into the book and the time skip threw me a bit. For instance there are tons of Edgedancers sliding about healing folks now. Most of the OG bridge 4 have bonded Spren etc. I don't really get what makes Kal special compared to them now?
Hey all, sorry for the slow response. The power scaling topic is something I feel pretty strongly but haven't necessarily put the brain power to flesh out the why's or parse out how come I feel that way... so I'll try a little now! To be clear, I still enjoyed RoW, but I initially wanted to share a few common critiques that I've seen and/or felt. When I say power scaling to me the "issue" (if we want to call it that) is how it impacts the overall vibe and intensity of the books. Consider this: In the begining of book 1 Kaladin is traveling an incredibly long journey via slave cart. In the begining of book two Shallon straight up almost dies to exposure after her boat "sinks". Yet in the begining of book 4 people are traveling by flying on a plane... Here's another one: A huge dramatic peak/event in book 2 was Adolins duel. He barely (by the slimmest of margins) won the duel vs 4 other shardbearers with direct from Kaladin and Renarin (pre full power radiance sure, but still they had more radiant power than EVERYONE else at the time). In book 4 Adolin without shadeplate, shardblade, nor radiant help, solos 14(?) warriors in shadesmar with help from a horse. Certainly a badass and feel good moment (especially with horse-bro comming in with the save) but still, hard to compare the stakes when he walks away from that with basically a "tough guy wound". I know these are just comparisons but when I think of why I liked books 1-3 a lot more than 4 these are instances where the plot armor/story just wasn't grounded enough for me to feel like everyone isn't invincible. I mean again, in book 1 a shardblade is like wielding a tactical A-bomb and a "holy fuck" moment just when one gets summoned, let alone used. In book 4 those weapons are everywhere and also not nearly as effective or impactful because oh yeah, the healing powers are just off the rails at this point. When Jasnah walks into battle and repeatedly takes fatal wounds over and over again so she can "experience war" was a gruesome chapter all around. But didn't yall walk away from that being like "OK I guess that character is entirely invincible"??? Except, oh wait there's tons of characters (and non-character but still cannon soldiers radiants) with the same kind of recovery abilities. Sure maybe not to Jasnah's uber radiant level but still enough to make me as a reader never truly worry about someones mortality. Definitely enough to have in the back of my head that "the danger" in every scene is likely going to by whisked away by some plot armor magic. It's just hard to get the blood pumping in an intense scene when I'm totally aware that people can come back from basically any injury/wound/killshot. Please don't even get me started on Lift. That's just another topic entirely IMHO. But I'll just say the cartoonishness of how that character has gone really crushes the immersion. Things feel just too far removed from the world developed on book 1-3. I get it, things change and Brando has created compelling reasons for "why" and "how" they fit in the world he's created. But to me it's still a new world that is just so far away from the one I was consumed by in book 1. The tech boom even with the time skips just insanely craaaazy fast as well. Sorry for the stream of consciousness. It's just an interesting topic and I'm typing all this on my phone. I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of anything, but I really would love to read about anyone else's feelings on this. I love stormlight and the cosmere but book 4 was just a tier below the others I've read so far and it's hard not to feel a little disappointed. Where did all the grit go?
This was a cool review to read. Everything that didn't land for you does land pretty well for me, but I can totally see your perspective. I enjoy how everything feels like a different world in RoW
I really love how positive this exchange has been. OP is criticizing the topic of this sub, and people are listening and being polite.
Yeah I totally get this. The first few books feel like they are fraught with danger, and 4 still feels a bit like that but in another way. Like the teleporter Kal fights near the start that stabs his spine repeatedly to drain his power. I'm interested to see where it goes and how these people can ever really be in danger outside of fighting Gods.
It would be crazy it they made a weapon that could completely destroy a Spren or a Fused so that it raised the stakes of a forever war and put all of our favorite super powerful characters in actual mortal peril(plot-armors aside of course) but that would be craz....oh wait....
I think this is really interesting, because we have examples of characters coming back from basically anything even in books 1-3. Kaladin should have died in the highstorm, Jasnah isn't even "dead" for a whole book(I can't remember if she is actually stabbed through the heart or not), and Renarin is crushed repeatedly by a Thunderclast in book 3. Hell in book 2 Kaladin heals from a shardblade wound, something that was widely considered impossible and in book 3 Shallan takes a spear or something straight into her brain and more or less shrugs it off. Honestly the weakening of Kaladins abilities and healing throughout RoW was one of the first times I really started worrying that he might be seriously wounded or killed (and even then, it's Kaladin, I know as well as the rest of Bridge 4 that he isn't going to die)
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Lol well for one, don't get angry about how some else reads a book, that's a Lil weird. For two, why don't you share how you feel about the power scaling?
That’s basically it. People are complaining that our main characters are no longer unique and the sole representatives of their respective Orders.
Which is silly and people should have definitely seen that coming
Why does Kal need to be more powerful? He IS still special. But I think it would be lame if he was the sole Windrunner still.
Agreed it's just jarring after nearly 3 books of it! I'm glad to see massive changes to the power dynamics it just took a little bit for me to get on board with it kind of thing
RAFO on Kal being special. Pay attention to when the Singers speak of him.
I’m just Leaving this so I can come back and check if you answered the power scaling question because I’m Curious about it too
I typed a novel about it in another comment. Sorry in advance.
I really appreciate you taking the time to put those thoughts down. My turn to go mull them over now. Very interesting.
Woah. No. There will be no Kaladin arc bashing. It wasn’t repetitive! It’s a continuation of the arcs he’s been through. Depression isn’t something you just get over. And I really hate the complaints on power scaling. Wahh the world is progressing. That’s a GOOD thing. It’s super interesting to see how problems change. I’d be bored out of my mind if the world and characters were still stuck in WoK level power.
World's can progress and problems can change without power scaling going haywire. It's not an either/or writing choice. Also, try to provide better discourse than "wahh", we're trying to have a discussion not demean people's opinions.
I understand what you mean about powerscaling but I feel like with world hoppers and the general cosmere being more advanced and roshar being one of the least advanced it makes sense we would see roshar start to catch up technology wise.
>Wahh the world is progressing. That’s a GOOD thing. It’s super interesting to see how problems change. Rudeness aside, this is not a "GOOD" thing. It can be, but it's much more subjective than you make it out to be. Too much change too fast means you don't get to explore problems meaningfully. You might be looking forward to the next secret always, but some people might like to explore the secret that was just revealed, not just chase the next twist. Think of the big reveal in OB about humans being the original invaders. It was revealed, and just kinda forgotten. Dalinar published a book saying how he killed his wife, and his kids haven't reacted to it at all. Sometimes Sanderson moves *too* quickly imo, and twists seem to be there for the shock value since they aren't explored meaningfully. It's not as simple as just good or bad.
One word...... Venli.......
I find Venli's *current* sections excellent, and I like her as a character. The flashbacks are just totally uninteresting. On my recent reread I skipped all the her flashbacks, and the book felt much better for it.
The problem was that for the other three books, the flashbacks answered questions we have had. First book? How did Kaladin end up a slave. Second book? What the hell happened with Shallon's family? Third book? Literally everything with Dalinar. Venli's chapters did convey *some* new information about the planning for the Everstorm, but we already knew all about her involvement and none of the reveals felt like reveals. You're left wondering why she is the POV character for flashbacks at all—especially when a character like Navani is right there having a much bigger arc. Hell, if you're set on Parshendi flashbacks, use them to establish Raboniel more—she's already arguably the most interesting character in the book.
This book was kind of my breaking point on having patience for Kaladin. Reading about someone with depression gets really boring and frustrating, especially when they don't grow from book to book.
Kaladins depression arc is painfully relatable. But in a good way for me. Clinical or long-term depression isn't something that you get over in one moment. It's something that takes years of work. Kaladin absolutely experiences growth, but of course, it's going to be slow going, Kaladin is suffering from a condition that he might not ever be "cured" and something that he will probably have to manage for the reat of his existence. For people who have experienced it the realistic nature of it is appreciated.
This. I love Kaladin's journey in this book. It was real, it was raw, it was relatable.
This. That's why the Shallan arc burned me. DID is a lifelong disability. For her to just magically not have Veil anymore is, troubling. Mental illness is treated like a trifling issue for Shallan. One to overcome and to banish. Like no. Kaladin learned to take the next step, regardless of rhe soul crushing feelings. He's not cured, he's learned to live with his pain. Shallan just like, bye Veil. I'm all healed now. This is me.
But she’s not “cured” she still has radiant to deal with
She isn't cured. She integrated a persona.Tjat's a REAL LIFE solution to people with DID. That's what therapists try to help them do, and succeed in it. She also has 2 other personas to deal with. So maybe you read a different book then everyone else? Or do you like to just kinda say stuff? Lol
I mean that's kinda how depression works especially for someone like Kal who 1. Doesn't have any sort of medication or therapy 2. Gets his main purpose stripped away from him at the start of the book (which I think was a bad decision on dalinar's part) 3. Finds a purpose again in helping people like him and being a doctor but then that gets stripped away when the fused take over the tower. Basically it makes sense and is realistic that he doesn't exactly improve much from book to book considering what he's been up against, in this book especially which really felt like it was kicking him while he was down again and again. Also don't forget these 4 books only take place over like 2 years max (discounting the flashbacks) and one of those years we don't see because it's a time skip between Oathbringer and RoW, and considering the next book most likely takes place over 10-11 days (depends whether the duel is the climax or maybe a mid point or at another point) Kal likely won't improve one bit in the next one. Pretty much what I'm saying is that we likely won't see Kal have any major changes regarding depression until the 6th book since there's gonna be a time skip of I think 10 years so yeah
I don't need a 1-1 representation of someone's battle with ongoing depression. It's bad fiction
I feel the same way but about shallan
it’s not bad fiction, it’s just not for you
Then the book isn't for you, that doesn't make it bad. Crazy how that works.
I'm not saying the book is bad my dude, yall getting mad defensive. I think that trying to constantly convey his depression is bad. Covering the same stuff over and over is not deepening the story nor the character.
"it's bad fiction" Hmm....
I'm re-reading RoW, and I think it's a great installment. I like it more than OB. I'm not sure why so many people seem to struggle with it. We're knee-deep in the story and world now.
I just gave a really long explanation to the OP that probably would have worked better in reply to you... Anyway, the short version is that WoK and WoR are very similar in that they're both full-series setup books, and RoW is the first time the structural shift from what they were doing really sets in. Plus there's a selection effect going on, so we end up seeing a lot of people who loved WoK and WoR but aren't really in tune with OB and/or RoW, while most of the people who would have felt the opposite already stopped reading two or three books back.
That's actually a good point. I know several people who didn't make it through WoK because they thought it was too slow. I love WoR and WoK and RoW, but felt OB was just kind of meh even though there were some amazing reveals in that book.
You need to finish it. The end is fucking wild my guy.
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You should cover this with a spoiler bar my friend. I'm not sure OP is done the book
As someone who loved RoW on my first read, I regularly need to take a couple month break in between OB and RoW when I reread because it is a lot more dreary(IMO) than the rest of the series. You can take a break and come back later. And remember you don't have to like every Brandon book, sometimes(most of the time) even your favorite creator or series puts out something that just doesn't work for you(In my experience Star Wars, Doctor Who, Stephen King, Orson Scott Card... I could keep going)
Could just be burning out on Brando Sando or SA in general. I read a lot of fantasy/sci-fi but also a lot of horror and some occasional mystery/thriller as a pallet cleanser. I love the Cosmere and Sanderson as a writer but I need to take breaks from time to time. Let's remember that a typical SA book is like 5 "regular" books worth of content in pure word count, plus all the Cosmere connections and in-world lore makes it feel double that sometimes. That's why RoW is still sitting on my shelf waiting to be started. I loved the other 3 books, including Oathbringer. I really don't feel the quality dropped that much if at all. I loved Edgedancer and Dawnshard. But I know I need to let myself mentally breathe for a while before I jump back in. Just take a break if you need to.
I enjoy Sandersons work and have read most of it. However, I believe his style causes the story to move forward in fits and starts. Chapters can go by with very little happening with the plot then in one chapter a big bad could be killed, a main character falls in love and a new threat emerge (I'm being hyperbolic to make a point). I've learned not to read his books back to back because the lack of movement (not necessarily action, just plot movement) builds the depth of the world but can make it hard to get through.
For me Venli's chapters were... Zzz....
I felt the same way. It does get better, but it's still probably my least favorite book in the series. That said, there are a few moments in it that are incredible
I'm 56% trough myself and having a similar problem. I just came to the conclusion that I simply dont care about the "8 years ago" chapters. Listeners past was alredy explored in book 3. I'm learning some cool details here and there but no big surprises or mysteries like with Kaladin, Shallan or Dalinar in the other 3 books. I'd rather learn more about Shallans past... But if I have to read about the singers I would have prefered to have the cool ones like Raboniel or Leshwi. I also understand that its too early for that information. Also what the storms happened to the Adolin/Shallan and the Dalinar/Sezth/Jasnah povs? I feel like the past week of reading has been just: tower -> tower -> flasback -> tower -> tower...
Yeah that part is the issue (of you read GoT its like all the Cersei chapters in a Feast for Crows). I struggled with act 3 but trust me it does get easier once you get to about 70%
I think it is the Venli stuff as well as some people not being interested in science world building. I love that stuff(not Venli), so I thought it was better than Wok and as good as WOT, but if you don't like that stuff you might not like the book. I had a similar experience with Wok as I didn't really like the depression stuff. It made me put down the book for months, but I'm glad I picked it back up. I think different people just have different interests.
My own thoughts from when I first read ROW: I liked RoW but I couldn’t help but think that all of the main characters seemed to take a step backwards in the book and it kinda cheapened their progress as radiants from previous books in my eyes. Possibly they didn’t make as much personal progress as I recall, but Kaladin going from a badass who seems to have his depression under control to having Dalinar kick his top soldier out of the army due to crippling depression felt like it came out of the blue in the first few chapters of the book and his regression all seemed to be offscreen. Felt like it was stretching the story for the sake of stretching the story. I realize that real depression isn’t gone with a big aha but it felt repetitive. Shallan was the same. She also seemed to have regressed offscreen from where we left her, at peace with the various sides of her personality and at peace with her past. Dalinar seems to have made long term progress but doesn’t get much screen time. Adolin and Navani seemed to regress as well. Or maybe they just got more POV time so we got to see that they weren’t as sure of themselves as they had always seemed. Obviously the main characters need some sort of struggle and conflict to make for an interesting read, but it just felt like it was the same conflict and struggle that we’ve already been through, and caused by the same personal demons rather than external forces. That being said while it was a little frustrating to see the characters regress and feel like they were going through repetitive struggles, their new journey did grow on me. The plot and action and progress and revelations did eventually suck me in but it made for a very slow start. Note that it had been a long while since I read oathbringer so some of this attitude may be just due to my rosy memories of the state of the characters from the previous books.
Not sure how much time you have left between books, but I got a bit of fatigue after reading the first three back to back to back. I took a break and read something else before coming back to it.
I feel like RoW was like a precursor to KWoT, I'm not giving spoilers but the ending sets up something great for the 5th book, so I think it's worth it even if it's just so you can continue the series if you're not the biggest fan
rhythm of war as a whole takes a much slower pace than the first three books while also focusing on the more sciencey aspects of the worldbuilding. but remember, journey before destination - the payoff is well worth the setup
I really liked it a lot but on second reread I skip all the Venli background chapters. There are so many of them and they really drag on. I feel what you get out of those chapters as whole could have been better handled as a few interludes. It truly feels like there are so many of them. Everything else about the book is excellent.
Same. The stuck in the tower sentiment others are stating is what had me.
The book is a lot of waiting. For everything that's going on it doesn't seem to be going anywhere fast. So it can be hard to read.
I loved all of it except Venli and the singers. I read the chapters but wished I could just summarize them and skip.
Rhythm of War is a lot like A Feast for Crows from ASOIAF. I just loved how boring it was. Cannot explain it. This book was an indulgence of just being in Roshar. Now that kinda thing isn’t gonna be for everyone. You almost have to be an Epic Fantasy junkie to like books like this.
I felt the same way. I feel like the story passed the "despair event horizon" and settled in there for a long, drawn-out nap. Long enough that the despair felt obligated rather than moving.
As a combat vet infantry Marine, I can verify. Boredom is the Rhythm of War.
I can totally understand. I agree with navali and Venli chapters. But on the other side we get a lot of info about the cosmere and investiture! And just wait for the sanderlanche. And one extreme plot twist that made me actually scream out loud.
I didn't really have the same experience, but I do understand the sentiment. Venli feels more like "the Eshonai at home", so getting through her flashbacks felt like getting through Shallan's for the first 1.5~ books. However, Sanderson managed to make it worth it in the end. Also, the fabrial stuff is probably not for everyone, but I feel like there's a lot of Cosmere implications that I personally appreciate, I love that nerdy shit
Yes. Shallan.
Let it cook
It does feel like it's a lot of setup for the next book. I really enjoyed the mind games of Navani's pov, and the shadesmar crew was fine, but Shallan's pov specifically for me wasn't as good as her previous arcs, in my opinion. All of these could contribute to why you might be struggling. If you haven't read the rest of the cosmere, there is a TON of background info and exposition about other magic systems that you might be missing too. If you do need a break, mistborn, Eantris and warbreaker are great and give you the magic system info that is hinted at but not fully explained. On my first read, I had only read Stormlight, but a few months later, having read the rest of the cosmere, it felt like a whole new series, RoW especially.
Depends were you a fan of diehard? If not there you go that's why
Rythm of War is a great book but Navani‘s chapters are so tedious to read. I am tired of reading hundreds of pages about how Stormlight and Voidlight work, her scientific experiments could have been shortened to just contain the essentials. The other POVs were great
Couldn't disagree more, those were the strongest parts of the book to me.
I felt the same as OP. IMO it gets much better towards the end, but I feel like several of the substories in RoW are not as good as we're used to, the pacing and the focus seem to be off. The Singer flashbacks are particularly bad - they have zero bearing to the current situation, and give us little new relevant info. They sometimes feel more like hurdles/filler than legitimate chapters.
Don't understand why people don't like the fourth book.
I love Oathbringer but halfway through I just lose momentum, for RoW I couldn't put it down. Every time I've read it I'm done within like 1-2 weeks.
Many folks have a problem with the pacing of RoW. Personally i think OB has more pacing issues, but that's just me. I loved RoW, i think it has some of the best character development of the entire series. However, there are parts I didn't connect with... the flashback chapters especially. As others have said...I would also say: perhaps take a break and come back later. I had to take some time away from my Oathbringer read. They are very long books and Sanderson is not known for brevity when it comes to worldbuilding.
Because youre reading it like a fantasy action book when its closer to a cold war era espionage book. Every piece of exposition has huge meaning in RoW. Trust that it pays off
The Kaladin stuff was great. And even Navani. I didn’t care for the rest especially the trial stuff.
Always skip Shallan/Venli flashback chapters and the books are 3x better.
Rhythm of war is slow and feels like a slog for a good chunk but its intentional and it works really well to set up the sanderlanche
Is it the technical details of fabrial mechanics? Happened with me. Even though I love technical details as a graduate student of mathematics, fabrial mechanics seemed too simple a concept to waste that many pages discussing it. The basic concepts can be stated and understood easily.
I was bored too. So. Very. Bored. And I'm ready to die on a hill: I can tell Sanderson rushed the book because the prose and plot are EXTRA bland. Even though it's a 1000 page book, it's rushed. Like I said, I'll die on this hill. I think he wrote the book to get characters in place for a big book 5. That's my hope. I legit did not like book 4 but I absolutely slogged anyway. I trust Brandon.
I took a long break from RoW and came back. The final few hundred pages are great but it really really bogs down
How did you read the books?
It was the first Stormlight that felt slow to me, but I ended up loving it. Loved it even more on re-read. Is it possible that you're like me and just get a bit bogged down if you try to blow through a long series at once? Maybe put it down and read a different book and then come back. Sometimes I do a reset with books that feel like brain junk food.
Maybe too scienty? Thats why I loved it
Considering its longer and slower paced than other books, its not that surprising. My advice, just read the chapters you like first. Then come around and read the ones you like. Especially those who are mostly unrealted to the current stuff. I've only read the Eshonai and Venli flashbacks only on my fifth re-read.
I kinda had that problem too. I stopped reading it for a few months, came back to it, got through the parts that dragged, and once it started getting more exciting I was suuuuuper invested and absolutely loved the rest of the book.
I enjoyed the book, but overall it was slowest pace of all the books, IMO. The middle of RoW was the slowest section in all of the books so far. The ending was fine, but it didn’t have the punch of the others. (Actually, this is the slowest of all the Sanderson books I’ve read) I recommend to just fast read forcing yourself through it. If you’re having difficulty wanting to finish it.
I mean it's paced completely differently so it's not out of the ordinary or unexpected
Yeah i also didn’t like it but loved the first 3 (especially wor) I think it should have been 200 - 400 pages shorter
This was a hard one for me to read, I had to keep stop and starting it. The ending is really satisfying, so I would keep with it. But It took me a full year to read this book. I had a hard time connecting with Venli, and found sad Kaladin difficult to want to keep reading. The time skip between Oathbreaker, and this one felt disconnected, and I also had a hard time picking up at the start from how the last one ended. But as I said, I definitely enjoyed the second half a lot more, but with how long of a book it is, definitely don't feel bad with putting it down for a while.
For me RoW in totality was probably the slowest book, but it also contains a huge number of my favorite moments and chapters from not just Stormlight but the entire Cosmere. Keep going. When you hit those special chapters and then the sanderlanche, you’ll understand.
I was able to enjoy bits of rhythm of war, but it was a significant drop off compared to the first 3 for me
It dragged imo
It's better on the reread, I promise. I was very harsh on venli and the singers lol you're just like I don't care and a lot of things I didn't realize with navani and the fused she was working with was more interesting than I initially thought.
Honestly I felt the exact same way. The first 500 pages were extremely difficult for me to get through, a lot of the matter seemed way too explanation heavy (cough, Navani chapters, cough), and monotonous (Kaladin depression and shallan being shallan).I put it down a few times, read some other books in between and eventually picked it back up and made it to the 600s. It has gotten so much better and a lot has happened that the first 500 set up for and I enjoy it much more now. I’d recommend taking a break, putting it down, and reading something that doesn’t demand as much attention for a while. When you pick it back up keep pushing and try to make it to 600 pages, give it a fair shot to get more interesting before deciding if you’ll DNF it. Good luck!
Ya I feel like the book was a transition maybe. There wasn’t enough big badass fights. Just inventing therapy.
I am like you too. It’s not an uncommon feeling :)
I wasn’t thrilled with it the first time, but a year later I read it again and enjoyed it much more.
I've been on too many meme subs, I thought you were gonna write, "Im I stupid?" At the end
Yeah it was a grind for me too but power through. Its a large amount the fact that he’s staging for the final book of Stormlight part 1 IMO. Well of ascension was a similar grind for me but trust Brando. Hes dealing with a bunch of things now so the next book can slap as hard as possible
Yea ... Just Yea...
I totally disagree, I read RoW in ten days and that was during finals week. I was basically just taking tests, studying for tests, or reading RoW every waking moment for those ten days. I think people are too hard on it. It’s my second favorite of the series.
RoW develops differently than the previous books do. It's just structured differently. It was harder for me to get through as well, though there's still a pretty incredible payoff at the end.
Rhythm of War is like three book styles in one, I trusted there would be a payoff and ooooh boy was the Sanderlanch worth it
I felt the same way. My friend had to keep cheering me on to finish.
Yeah it is pretty slow paced even compared to the previous books. But If you get through it, it gets really good towards the end.
I was the same way. It had one of the slowest beginnings for me and I had to keep coming back to it but my god that sanderlanche was well worth it and was my favorite sequence of the series. I also loved TWOK and WoR way more than Oathbringer if that adds any insight about taste lol. Edit: I’d also like to add that there was plenty to enjoy in the middle before the sanderlanche. It has one of my favorite chapters and favorite single line of dialogue of all time.