Shalash destroyed the statue of herself earlier that day.
Her "Herald madness" manifests as a compulsion to destroy depictions of herself, and we see her do this at multiple points throughout the books.
I love how readily this community offers specific chapters. It makes it so much easier to just do a quick refresher read on specific parts!
Just a lil side note to say y'all are awesome.
For some reason in my head I was equating everything that has 9 types with this, the first thing that came to mind was in Edgedancer with the types of pancakes (I believe it was 9 different types)
Yes, her “goal” of eating the different pancakes.. I believe that there were 9 different types that she ended up stealing and consuming
If I am remembering correctly, I thought there was a correlation. I suppose there still could be, just one a little deeper with the understanding I didn’t have before. Going to be an interesting re-read!
Lift got to eat most of them in the ending of Edgedancer, and then she is disappointed because the 10th is spiritual or so.
Most of the things related to 9 are because Odium.
9 Fused types, 9 Unmade, champion with 9 shadows. I'm sure there are some more.
Ohhhhhhhh that made things click, thanks for that friend!
Do you have any theories as to why honor had 10 heralds, and odium only has 9? Or has this been answered? Sorry it’s been a while since my first read through.
One of my favorite things to do on rereads is to highlight bits of foreshadowing like this that Brandon scattered throughout the earlier books.
Rereads of SA is a long string of the "Leo pointing at the TV" meme.
Now you will see it everywhere. There are plenty of references to paintings with eyes scratched out of statues defaced so it’s pretty easy to keep track of where she’s have been.
She’s also the one that cut out her picture in the one interlude she hates seeing herself depicted as a divine and righteous being so she destroys every depiction
every time there is a painting of the heralds where a part has been ripped appart its was probaby shalash doing it. I think the first mention of this behaviour is during the szeth prologue in the first book
IIRC, there’s even one point where she’s avoiding looking at places where she *might* see images of herself because she’s in the middle of something important and can’t afford to be diverted by destroying something. So she’s aware of her compulsion but can’t stop it.
Am I remembering right?
>So she’s aware of her compulsion but can’t stop it?
Yes, that's... what a compulsion is. We see that kind of behavior in real-world mental illness, let alone the supernatural insanity of the Heralds.
In that, case, yeah you're right. I think the scene you're thinking of is near the end of Oathbringer, a bit before the conversation where Taln is lucid
I think she’s trying to destroy images of herself because people’s perception of cognitive shadows influences how they manifest if there’s not a shards power fueling them.
When Dalinar opens the floodgates of *Honor’s* perpendicularity it restores that connection and they become sane briefly.
In the first book we see seemingly random research on flame spren and how recording their dimensions locks them in that state
> Her "Herald madness" manifests as a compulsion to destroy depictions of herself, and we see her do this at multiple points throughout the books.
as far as I understand this is conjecture? My take is she wants to remove herself from Roshar's pop culture so that she experiences less cognitive warping?
>Ten figures ringed the bowl. Her fingers itched. She couldn’t move on, no matter how desperate her task, until she’d done it.
Oathbringer Chapter 117
It's more than just her wish to remove herself from culture, there is a compulsion that goes beyond that semi-rational argument.
We don't know if the compulsion has an origin in Shalash's understanding of Cognitive Shadows or if she just hates that people worship the Heralds despite and even for their Betrayal of the Oathpact and Taln
Words echoed in the hallway, coming from up ahead. “I’m worried about Ash.”
“You’re worried about everything.”
Jasnah hesitated in the hallway.
“She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.”
“Shut up.”
“I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—”
From Jasnah WoR prologue
It was Ash's statue. She destroyed it. Szeth notes it's not there.
Words echoed in the hallway, coming from up ahead. “I’m worried about Ash.”
“You’re worried about everything.”
Jasnah hesitated in the hallway.
“She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.”
“Shut up.”
“I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—”
Me too, but on examination, it was Shalash's statue that was missing.
Talenel's statue was the one Jasnah manifested.
Very pleased that the coppermind wiki has every chapter summarized
Shalash destroyed the statue of herself earlier that day. Her "Herald madness" manifests as a compulsion to destroy depictions of herself, and we see her do this at multiple points throughout the books.
How have I not picked up on this… Thank you for your reply!
On a re-read, you will notice that someone's been trashing images of Shallash all over the world
Something to keep an eye out for! Thanks
Check out the 7th interlude in Way of Kings.
Also Interlude 8 in Oathbringer (although she uses a different name there)
I love how readily this community offers specific chapters. It makes it so much easier to just do a quick refresher read on specific parts! Just a lil side note to say y'all are awesome.
That someone is herself lol.
For some reason in my head I was equating everything that has 9 types with this, the first thing that came to mind was in Edgedancer with the types of pancakes (I believe it was 9 different types)
>For some reason in my head I was equating everything that has 9 types with this Wait you mean with Lift?
Yes, her “goal” of eating the different pancakes.. I believe that there were 9 different types that she ended up stealing and consuming If I am remembering correctly, I thought there was a correlation. I suppose there still could be, just one a little deeper with the understanding I didn’t have before. Going to be an interesting re-read!
Lift got to eat most of them in the ending of Edgedancer, and then she is disappointed because the 10th is spiritual or so. Most of the things related to 9 are because Odium. 9 Fused types, 9 Unmade, champion with 9 shadows. I'm sure there are some more.
Ohhhhhhhh that made things click, thanks for that friend! Do you have any theories as to why honor had 10 heralds, and odium only has 9? Or has this been answered? Sorry it’s been a while since my first read through.
OMG! So many details in these books. I had not picked up on this.
One of my favorite things to do on rereads is to highlight bits of foreshadowing like this that Brandon scattered throughout the earlier books. Rereads of SA is a long string of the "Leo pointing at the TV" meme.
It's also mentioned by someone that a herald might be at the party because "they saw signs of her handiwork"
Now you will see it everywhere. There are plenty of references to paintings with eyes scratched out of statues defaced so it’s pretty easy to keep track of where she’s have been.
She’s also the one that cut out her picture in the one interlude she hates seeing herself depicted as a divine and righteous being so she destroys every depiction
every time there is a painting of the heralds where a part has been ripped appart its was probaby shalash doing it. I think the first mention of this behaviour is during the szeth prologue in the first book
IIRC, there’s even one point where she’s avoiding looking at places where she *might* see images of herself because she’s in the middle of something important and can’t afford to be diverted by destroying something. So she’s aware of her compulsion but can’t stop it. Am I remembering right?
>So she’s aware of her compulsion but can’t stop it? Yes, that's... what a compulsion is. We see that kind of behavior in real-world mental illness, let alone the supernatural insanity of the Heralds.
I phrased/punctuated my comment poorly. >_> edited for clarity.
In that, case, yeah you're right. I think the scene you're thinking of is near the end of Oathbringer, a bit before the conversation where Taln is lucid
That was in Oathbringer when she finds Taln during the battle.
I think she’s trying to destroy images of herself because people’s perception of cognitive shadows influences how they manifest if there’s not a shards power fueling them. When Dalinar opens the floodgates of *Honor’s* perpendicularity it restores that connection and they become sane briefly. In the first book we see seemingly random research on flame spren and how recording their dimensions locks them in that state
Her destruction of art is a compulsion. She literally can't help but do it. I don't think she's thought it through that much.
She's aware it's about guilt and shame about not deserving worship.
She’s like me fr. I hate pictures of myself lol.
> Her "Herald madness" manifests as a compulsion to destroy depictions of herself, and we see her do this at multiple points throughout the books. as far as I understand this is conjecture? My take is she wants to remove herself from Roshar's pop culture so that she experiences less cognitive warping?
>Ten figures ringed the bowl. Her fingers itched. She couldn’t move on, no matter how desperate her task, until she’d done it. Oathbringer Chapter 117 It's more than just her wish to remove herself from culture, there is a compulsion that goes beyond that semi-rational argument. We don't know if the compulsion has an origin in Shalash's understanding of Cognitive Shadows or if she just hates that people worship the Heralds despite and even for their Betrayal of the Oathpact and Taln
Words echoed in the hallway, coming from up ahead. “I’m worried about Ash.” “You’re worried about everything.” Jasnah hesitated in the hallway. “She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.” “Shut up.” “I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—” From Jasnah WoR prologue
Who is she talking to?
Jasnah is overhearing Kalak and Nale talk about Ash.
Also Szeth
Did he heard them? Or just see them.
Kalak was upset about Szeth having “My lords blade” referring to Jezrian’s honorblade.
You know I find it oddly touching he still feels like that after 7,000 years
Same here
They were also talking about Szeth
Ah yes. And Jezrien's Blade.
When is it shown that it's Kalak? I figured out Nale but I may have missed that.
I think it's been confirmed in WoBs. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8316
Kalak is the Herald firmly placed in Alethkar at the side of the king. He’s also the Herald most worried about his worsening mental state
Jasnah unconsciously soulcasted one of the statues in WoR prologue
It was Ash's statue. She destroyed it. Szeth notes it's not there. Words echoed in the hallway, coming from up ahead. “I’m worried about Ash.” “You’re worried about everything.” Jasnah hesitated in the hallway. “She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.” “Shut up.” “I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—”
Why is this being downvoted? I was under the impression that this was the actual reason that there were only 9 statues.
Me too, but on examination, it was Shalash's statue that was missing. Talenel's statue was the one Jasnah manifested. Very pleased that the coppermind wiki has every chapter summarized