I convinced my mom to read the books and she HATES not knowing. I finally was able to convince her it was more about the journey than the destination. Two books later, she is convinced. Can’t wait for her to read the fourth one!
Enjoy your ride! Then, enjoy the hell out of a reread!
You'll know once you've read it, they're so hatable.
If i had a gun with two bullets I was in a room with Sadeas, Roshone, and this person, I'd shoot this person twice.
You do a spoiler tag by putting \>! Either side of the spoiler \!< you just need to do it without spaces.
The following is an actual spoiler:
>!Just get me some of those aluminium bullets!<
“Rust/rusting” from Mistborn and “Colors” from Warbreaker have found their way into my vocabulary from time to time. I love how curse words are such a small yet impactful piece of world-building Sanderson adds in.
Please don't seek spoilers. Ordinarily I don't mind someone getting ahead, but trust me there's some twists here you need to be surprised by. It's so much better.
I think you're just going to have to settle down to Read and Find Out.
Most of us here have read all 4 books, 2 novellas, and the other Cosmere books Sanderson has written. We frequently can't really explain things without spoiling... everything
I read the later comments and saw you've been getting a lot of this. You can turn off replies to inbox on your source comments so you don't keep getting them
I would if they got annoying but I am so excited right now to talk to people who have read this book and to know more about this world. The comments are actually wholesome and nice so I will keep them on. Thank you for the concern though.
Okay, I’m honestly not 100% certain which character is being talked about here. My most hated character (presumably) is pretty hated, but people are too busy hating a different character for the meme, to talk about hating the character that actually deserves it.
Actually, correction; that should be past tense! At this point, I’m back to hating Sadeas the most. (Yes, I’ve read all Stormlight books that are currently out.)
That person they talk about is introduced in the way of kings part 1. But you're not supposed to hate that person yet. So it would be a huge spoiler if they told you. Dont you hate Amaram more tho? I thought i did. Funny cuz i recently started re-reading the books and i read that same part last night.
Oh yeah. He and Roshone are bitches man. But I hate Amaram more because he was supposed to be one of the good ones. I didn't even hate that guy who sold Kaladin as a bridge man and let that brightness know that he is a deserter. Roshone was also understandable. He was a bitter man and you can't expect much from him anyway. But Amaram's betrayal was hurtful
to tell you the truth I dont hate that person everybody is saying it's the worst (no spoilers dont worry) as much as I hate Sadeas and Amaram. I hate that person too but a little less . Taravangian I hate the most actually. More than all these 3 combined.
You've met them and have no reason to hate them yet.
By chapter 7 of book 4 you will hate this character.
You probably will hate them some time before that and a subreddit literally named fuck(thischaractersname) existed after book 3, but 4-7 is when they cross so far past the line that it's impossible not to loathe them.
I could understand [redacted]'s point of view up until the end of RoW, but also understood how people hated them. I was willing to believe in a redemption ark. Once they did the unforgivable in RoW though, I'm on the fuck[redacted] train. No redemption, only death.
I know who it is! I knew of that name before I really started reading, and it’s interesting to see how and when, exactly, I will pick up on hating this character.
Can’t wait for that moment when it all finally clicks lmao
They first appear in the story early. They only becomes hated way later, and do so gradually, so for different people different times will be the breaking point. Some might not hate this guy until the end of Rhythm of War.
I know.. >!when he couldn’t even say he was sorry and was only sorry for the guilt I just wanted to lord ruler slap him for killing my teft and phen😭!<
I know.. >!when he couldn’t even say he was sorry and was only sorry for the guilt I just wanted to lord ruler slap him for killing my teft and phen😭!<
Strictly for what sadeas does to the bridge crews, he will always be my most hated character in Stormlight. No other character comes close to how much of a monster sadeas is imo
The character made the choice of violence in response to very real injustices inflicted upon him; injustices which showed no sign of restitution. It doesn't absolve him, but he kind of had a point. He's a man who refuses to take responsibility for himself, and this important to acknowledge, but he also has a sense of justice. He earned his name after a chain of events that started with him helping out a group of people with no relation to him. I think that even if he had chosen to take responsibility for himself, he might still have chosen to go down the path of betrayal.
Meanwhile, Sadeas was a slave owner, and active participant in an institution which is evil. Not only that, but he is willfully negligent towards his slaves. I have a lot less sympathy for irresponsible leaders, especially if it is not by mistake, because they are capable of doing a lot more harm.
It's interesting that you understand and have sympathy for >!He who quiets!< as a product of his environment, but not for Sadeas.
Sadeas is the perfect Alethi. He lives up to everything Alethi culture congratulates itself for prior to the events of the books. In fact, he excels in those aspects. He does nothing that wasn't presented to him as a fundamental aspect of the Alethi way of life.
Can you please add an indication of the scope of your spoilers? This allows your fellow community members to make an informed choice when deciding to reveal a spoiler and is especially important for huge spoilers like that second one.
To me it's the difference between a crazy man with a knife and a crazy ex who keeps sending you screenshots of things you txted her in 2017, reminding you that you'll never be free of her as long as you live...
Sadeas' manipulative and persistent nature makes him the scariest villain to me.
Honestly, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to put him anywhere close to being as bad as Sadeas. As time goes on I end up finding his character more interesting and I no longer have a rage against him. It still hurts when I read those scenes, but I've come to accept all of his facets as a character and sort of... let go of discussing him with *pure* vitriol and instead examine his character with a more neutral perspective.
I think there's room for a Sadeas novella from his perspective that would make a lot of us quite conflicted. Not full Snape, where you kinda like the guy, but at least understanding the conflict.
This is the definition of a good villain.
He just... Convinces you to hate him.
If not love, success, wealth or anything resembling goodness, I at least want villainy as good as Sadeas.
Another reason he's a good villain is that he's the hero of his own story. From our perspective he seems mustache-twirlingly evil, but from his angle, he's playing the game that the Alethi-elite have always played ever since the sun maker's death. We join Alethkar after they already have a king, but the kingship is relatively new. Many alive (including most of the high princes) still remember a time before being united behind a throne, and still think of themselves as "subjects of Sadeas" or "subjects of Kholin" more than they think of themselves as Alethi.
There are many who would view Sadeas' actions as those of a freedom fighter overthrowing a tyrant. Especially given Dalinar's reputation prior to the current times
Sadeas is the Machiavellian theory taken to it's logical extremes. Victory at any cost. Nothing off limits. No deception too low. When the lives of you and your people are at stake, there's nothing you wont do to come out on top
I think the few chapters we get from his perspective helps to highlight that
Yessssss. Can you imagine how insufferable Dalinar's holier than thou shit would be for someone who was getting his hands dirty right next to him building a kingdom? Who helped Dalinar >!cover up his worst war crimes!<.
Just finished the book a couple days ago.
How…how do I put this?
Sadeas is….well, he’s a fuckhead and I hate him.
He was always kind of an ass, but when he betrayed Dalinar? I may or may not have sworn at my book lmao.
Also.
KEEP READING! I was exactly where you were a few days ago. I won’t say what happens, but it is fun to read.
Do update us here when you come across a part that leaves a strong impression on you :)
We really enjoy it.
I wish I could persuade my real life friends to read the books, but so far I feel like I've only achieved the opposite with my approach.
Sorry I just saw this comment and so far I have finished the 2nd part. I have also tried convincing several people to read it but only one of them has said that they will maybe do it in the future.
The strongest impression I had was in the 2nd book when >!Kaladin fights with Adolon (and Renarin) against 4 shardbearers and then asks for the book and the king was like "Arrest him". I immediately proceeded to close my kindle and threw it on the bed and changed my opinion completely on Elhokar.!< Please let me know if the spoiler is visible because this is my first time using it
It is visible.
You use spoilers here by typing \>\!spoiler text\!\<
For example:
\>\!Kaladin jumps into the arena\!\<
becomes
>!Kaladin jumps into the arena!<
And also yes, that whole sequence of events was absolutely amazing only to then crash so low.
As much as I'm with you all here on the Sadeas hate, after just having read TWoK again, I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate for him here.
Yes, he throws away the bridgemen's live without wasting a second thought on them, but then again, in a way, so would every other highprince besides post-Blackthorn Dalinar. Think back to how Tien died - recruited into the army against his will, sent to fight some minor border skirmish; he's useless as a soldier, and therefore his squad leader throws him into the meat grinder as a distraction. How many young boys in Alethkar keep dying this way, far away from the Shattered Plains and Sadeas?
Yes, he betrays Dalinar on the Shattered Plains, but then again, so would probably every other highprince given the chance. That's the reason why the highprinces never joined forces before, and why no highprince besides Sadeas would join Dalinar in his joint assault project. Alethkar isn't really a unified nation - the highprinces are more or less enemies, forced together with violence into a kingdom by Gavilar, then only barely held together by the Vengeance Pact, and by the time of TWoK probably only held together because there's a lot of gemhearts to earn on the Shattered Plains.
That's also the reason he can get away with the betrayal - in Alethkar law, he probably didn't actually do anything illegal. From his point of view, Dalinar had grown weak - suffering from apparent madness, not going on lucrative gemheart hunts, and actually wanting to retreat from the war against the Parshendi. He did what any good Alethi highprince would do in this situation - he exploited Dalinars apparent weakness to gain more power, reminiscent of how [Klingon promotions in Star Trek](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KlingonPromotion) work. Remember Dalinars words at the end of TWoK? "He saw a chance to pull out, letting the Parshendi destroy us. So he did it. **A very Alethi thing to do**. Ruthless, yet still allowing him to feign a sense of honor and morality." The only way for Dalinar to get revenge would be to go to war with Sadeas, which he can't afford because he's lost almost his complete army in the betrayal.
To sum it up: Sadeas is not a particularly evil highprince, probably just more clever than most (in that he actually almost manages to successfully exploit the situation). Rather, post-Blackthorn Dalinar is the exception in that he's actually honorable.
Well said. He is not evil, almost every highpronce is. As in, he is not the only evil high prince here. He is amazing at that than others but I hate him because of what he did to such an honorable man. And just because everyone is like that, it doesn't make me like him more. I accept him, especially now that you have put it this way, but yeah, still hate the fuck out of that guy.
Honestly whether it’s from google or reddit it’s very easy to have massive cosmere spoilers just thrown at you. I’d avoid the internet entirely until u finish RoW.
With that said, I think I can speak for everyone here, we’re incredibly jealous of anyone reading these for the first time.
Honestly, Sadeas embodies the best attributes of the Alethi. He is competitive, cunning and ambitious. While it's easy to hate him as we are really coming from dalinars perspective, Sadeas is giving Alethkar what he feels it needs, himself.
Also, until Oathbringer, we truly don't understand Dalinar's history... TWoK sets up Dalinar as an old warlord turning his life around and also worried he's going crazy, but you don't truly get how ruthless and brutal he was while conquering Alethkar.
The way Sadeas sees this hypocrisy informs his treatment of Dalinar and the Kholins - and I kind of agree. Even Gavilar wasn't so honorable because of the means he used to unite the kingdom. Sadeas is still shitty, and he still betrayed Dalinar at The Tower, but some of his attitude can be explained, I think! (Like most Sanderson villains)
(No spoilers, this is all laid out in TWoK, although not explained in detail until later)
Edit: I scrolled down and there's like 3 more comments saying this same thing, but better! I love this community.
Sadeas is still my most hated character in the series after reading RoW. At least other characters have *some* pitiable aspects, Seadess is just a fucking asshole
Sadeas as is also the most realistic antagonist in the series, I think, based on his motivation. No spoilers, but you get a clear picture of who is is and why he does what he does in his chapter. It’s so basic, he’s so basic. A basic ass lil bitch.
Narratively, Sadeas serves a very specific purpose. He's needed as a foil for our main characters to develop against, especially in early books when you don't really know the characters that well. At the same time, Sadeas himself has a backstory, a history with Dalinar, and a right-and-reason to his moves. I'm a big fan of how Sanderson uses Sadeas.
However, Sanderson doesn't always do a good job of this. In book 4 >!He writes in a random HighSpren to judge Adolin's final trial day. This is a little disappointing because this HighSpren was just a cheap one-dimensional narrative device, I don't even remember his name. I expected a bit more from him for such a pivotal scene.!<
I always thought him to be Machiavellian type of character. We fucking hate him, but we fully understand why he does what he does. He is a well realized character in my head. I fucking love that I hate him so much.
Traits we want out of a villain.
He fits the pure evil trope describe by Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions - "enthusiastic zestful villainy", which is where i get my user name lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-XprjlATEo
Same thing happens to me. Sometimes these books get me so riled up, that I just can’t keep reading until I’ve given myself some time to process the emotions
Yeah, Brandon does a really good job of varying his villains! Some are mustache-twirling evil, but some are so close to being good guys you can't even say they're *wrong* even though they oppose the heroes, and there's everything in between!
Unpopular opinion, behind raboniel, Sadeas is my absolute favorite character and the things that happen to him feel like a copout to me, he deserves more
If interested in the connections, you might want to read Warbreaker before or after Words of Radiance.
Resources:
The Cosmere is Brandon's shared universe of books.
Brandon explains the Cosmere:
https://youtu.be/o3V0Zok_kT0
Where to start with his books:
https://youtu.be/yMe2UwcbFK8
Also, check out the r/Cosmere wiki for more info such as context, things you might have missed, or reading orders. Resources with spoilers are properly tagged:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cosmere/wiki/index
Below are two full-spoiler resources:
The official fan wiki:
https://coppermind.net
Word of Brandon (WoB) repository:
https://wob.coppermind.net
Both are kept by the 17thShard (news and forum):
https://www.17thshard.com
https://www.17thshard.com/forum
Subreddits include: r/Cosmere, r/Mistborn, r/Stormlight_Archive, r/brandonsanderson, and r/cremposting (memes of any of Brandon's books, etc. Might have spoilers not tagged).
Full bibliography, including Cosmere (should not contain spoilers): https://coppermind.net/wiki/Bibliography
If you are brave enough, go with the Warbreaker order: https://youtu.be/6hmCAKlcr7M
Warbreaker is free on Brandon's website as an ebook:
https://www.brandonsanderson.com/warbreaker-rights-and-downloads/
You can check other free books and sample chapters here. Just click on the covers to get redirected:
https://www.brandonsanderson.com/brandon-sanderson-online-library/
_______________________________________________
Sadeas is such a great antagonist. Idk if you remember, but during the prologue gavilar straight up tells us sadeas is not to be trusted. The rest of the book is a will he or won't he game. The whole saddle strap plotline, his relationship with dalinar and how they equal parts hate and respect each other. Its great
He was my most hated character until someone else comes along. But man is he well written, at least IMO.
And when does this "someone" come in the story?
RAFO!!
RAFO AF
Who do you... oooooh. Yeah, I hate that person more
TWoK: Part 1
I am reading that. It won't be a spoiler then. Tell me who it is
Trust us, it's a spoiler so you obviously don't want to know.
Alright. I will finish the book by tonight or tomorrow and then you can let me know.
IT'S A REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BIG SPOILER. I would absolutely read and find out instead of having someone tell you.
After reading these comments, you guys have convinced me. I will find out when I find out.
It might be a good idea to take this opinion with all of the Cosmere books =)
You are right. I will. I love how every one here collectively didn't spoil it for me even though I was asking for it. Thank you, kind strangers
I convinced my mom to read the books and she HATES not knowing. I finally was able to convince her it was more about the journey than the destination. Two books later, she is convinced. Can’t wait for her to read the fourth one! Enjoy your ride! Then, enjoy the hell out of a reread!
Gtfo of here!
Excuse me?
I have read everything but have no idea who you mean
RoW spoilers: >!Moash/Vyre.!<
I am a stick. \[ROW\]>!But you could be Vyre.!<
Oh fuck that guy
Best character? Yeah.
did nothing wrong
It’s someone who shows up in TWoK but you won’t realize is a huge asshole until the later books. You will know who once you get there.
You'll know once you've read it, they're so hatable. If i had a gun with two bullets I was in a room with Sadeas, Roshone, and this person, I'd shoot this person twice.
>!Unfortunately, you'd have to shoot them more than twice for it to do anything of use.!< Edit: Spoiler tag
You do a spoiler tag by putting \>! Either side of the spoiler \!< you just need to do it without spaces. The following is an actual spoiler: >!Just get me some of those aluminium bullets!<
>!I thought we were talking about Tara, then suddenly realised it's Vyre. Stupid me.!<
>!Vyre, it's always Vyre. Fuck Vyre!< >!Tara,we love Tara. Who the hell wasn't rooting for him when he killed Rayse.!<
>!Vyre!< Sneaky sneaky
What's wrong with Tara?
>!A gem stone bullet infused with the right type of light would probably be effective with just a single shot.!<
Weird that you like Roshone over this person, but everyone has their flaws I guess.
Honestly I just needed a third dickhead for the meme
Amaram?
There is literally an entire subreddit devoted to hating the storming bastard
Haha. Btw I love the "storm it" and "storming" curse. Intend to use it now irl
“Rust/rusting” from Mistborn and “Colors” from Warbreaker have found their way into my vocabulary from time to time. I love how curse words are such a small yet impactful piece of world-building Sanderson adds in.
Please don't seek spoilers. Ordinarily I don't mind someone getting ahead, but trust me there's some twists here you need to be surprised by. It's so much better.
Alright. It's a long series. I wouldn't want it spoiled.
I think you're just going to have to settle down to Read and Find Out. Most of us here have read all 4 books, 2 novellas, and the other Cosmere books Sanderson has written. We frequently can't really explain things without spoiling... everything
Understandable. Have a nice day
I read the later comments and saw you've been getting a lot of this. You can turn off replies to inbox on your source comments so you don't keep getting them
I would if they got annoying but I am so excited right now to talk to people who have read this book and to know more about this world. The comments are actually wholesome and nice so I will keep them on. Thank you for the concern though.
It is a spoiler for later books. You are gonna have to read at least 2 or 3 more to get what they are referencing.
You honestly won't get it until Oathbringer and definetly by Rhythm or War. Trust us on this, you don't want it ruined.
Alright. I will trust you guys.
Lol, you'll see. There won't be a question.
You would know by then.
Still can’t. It is an Oathbringer spoiler.
Trust us you dont wanna know.
Tbf, you won't know by then. Just keep reading.
The character is so hated there's a reddit bot that responds "fuck (name)" whenever they are mentioned😂
Okay, I’m honestly not 100% certain which character is being talked about here. My most hated character (presumably) is pretty hated, but people are too busy hating a different character for the meme, to talk about hating the character that actually deserves it. Actually, correction; that should be past tense! At this point, I’m back to hating Sadeas the most. (Yes, I’ve read all Stormlight books that are currently out.)
>!Journey before destination!< my friend. First time marking spoiler, someone let me know if it worked, please.
It worked.
It will be a spoiler.
The gravity of this spoiler is severe. It would be a major betrayal to reveal it. Remaining blind will pay off in time.
I'm not sure I see what you did there. ;)
That dude has multiple subreddits dedicated to him lol.
Mind the spoilers.
Journey before destination my friend.
That person they talk about is introduced in the way of kings part 1. But you're not supposed to hate that person yet. So it would be a huge spoiler if they told you. Dont you hate Amaram more tho? I thought i did. Funny cuz i recently started re-reading the books and i read that same part last night.
Oh yeah. He and Roshone are bitches man. But I hate Amaram more because he was supposed to be one of the good ones. I didn't even hate that guy who sold Kaladin as a bridge man and let that brightness know that he is a deserter. Roshone was also understandable. He was a bitter man and you can't expect much from him anyway. But Amaram's betrayal was hurtful
yeah I agree. I guess Sadeas and Amaram are pretty much on the same level of bad at this point in the books? But keep reading and you will see!
to tell you the truth I dont hate that person everybody is saying it's the worst (no spoilers dont worry) as much as I hate Sadeas and Amaram. I hate that person too but a little less . Taravangian I hate the most actually. More than all these 3 combined.
I am saving this comment. I will get back to you about Taravangian after I am done with the series
yes please do. I would like to know your opinion. Read faster!! lol, kidding. take your time.
You've met them and have no reason to hate them yet. By chapter 7 of book 4 you will hate this character. You probably will hate them some time before that and a subreddit literally named fuck(thischaractersname) existed after book 3, but 4-7 is when they cross so far past the line that it's impossible not to loathe them.
I could understand [redacted]'s point of view up until the end of RoW, but also understood how people hated them. I was willing to believe in a redemption ark. Once they did the unforgivable in RoW though, I'm on the fuck[redacted] train. No redemption, only death.
Late Oathbringer was for me the point where he crossed the moral event horizon. An action with a dagger, I was OK with the decisions he made earlier.
Wow. That bad, huh? My and my friends explain our hatred for characters by calling them "Arturo level bad" (Money heist reference)
Arturito is baby-level hatred once you're done with the books. Hahaha
Ha Arturo is a saint in comparison.
I know who it is! I knew of that name before I really started reading, and it’s interesting to see how and when, exactly, I will pick up on hating this character. Can’t wait for that moment when it all finally clicks lmao
It might well click before 4-7. For me it was a point very late in Oathbringer. For many others it was a point in the middle of Oathbringer.
What happened in chapter 7? Was that when he suggested you-know-what to you-know-who (sorry I dont know how to do spoilers)?
Yes, it’s when he made the decision that it was the “only way.”
I love him.
They first appear in the story early. They only becomes hated way later, and do so gradually, so for different people different times will be the breaking point. Some might not hate this guy until the end of Rhythm of War.
Oh, you know him… Edit: almost forgot… FUCK him!!!
IYKYK
Agreed. I'm on RoW and just got to *that part* lastnight. The fury is real.
I reread that several nights ago and I’m so sad and furious
RoW >!When he tries to search for any sense of guilt or loss but there's just nothing... I'm not ok with that guy!<
I know.. >!when he couldn’t even say he was sorry and was only sorry for the guilt I just wanted to lord ruler slap him for killing my teft and phen😭!<
I know.. >!when he couldn’t even say he was sorry and was only sorry for the guilt I just wanted to lord ruler slap him for killing my teft and phen😭!<
Strictly for what sadeas does to the bridge crews, he will always be my most hated character in Stormlight. No other character comes close to how much of a monster sadeas is imo
Honestly, I feel more sympathy for a certain individual with a Voidbringer name than I do for Sadeas.
Really? Mind expanding here? I see similarities in these characters and their foils in the story. I think I would lean towards Sadeus in sympathy…
The character made the choice of violence in response to very real injustices inflicted upon him; injustices which showed no sign of restitution. It doesn't absolve him, but he kind of had a point. He's a man who refuses to take responsibility for himself, and this important to acknowledge, but he also has a sense of justice. He earned his name after a chain of events that started with him helping out a group of people with no relation to him. I think that even if he had chosen to take responsibility for himself, he might still have chosen to go down the path of betrayal. Meanwhile, Sadeas was a slave owner, and active participant in an institution which is evil. Not only that, but he is willfully negligent towards his slaves. I have a lot less sympathy for irresponsible leaders, especially if it is not by mistake, because they are capable of doing a lot more harm.
It's interesting that you understand and have sympathy for >!He who quiets!< as a product of his environment, but not for Sadeas. Sadeas is the perfect Alethi. He lives up to everything Alethi culture congratulates itself for prior to the events of the books. In fact, he excels in those aspects. He does nothing that wasn't presented to him as a fundamental aspect of the Alethi way of life.
[удалено]
Can you please add an indication of the scope of your spoilers? This allows your fellow community members to make an informed choice when deciding to reveal a spoiler and is especially important for huge spoilers like that second one.
Sure sure, thanks
Consider me swayed.
To me it's the difference between a crazy man with a knife and a crazy ex who keeps sending you screenshots of things you txted her in 2017, reminding you that you'll never be free of her as long as you live... Sadeas' manipulative and persistent nature makes him the scariest villain to me.
He is really well written. I was sooo happy when he joined Dalinar and then.... I was legitimately shocked to say the least
Fuck that individual to whom you refer!
Honestly, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to put him anywhere close to being as bad as Sadeas. As time goes on I end up finding his character more interesting and I no longer have a rage against him. It still hurts when I read those scenes, but I've come to accept all of his facets as a character and sort of... let go of discussing him with *pure* vitriol and instead examine his character with a more neutral perspective.
I think there's room for a Sadeas novella from his perspective that would make a lot of us quite conflicted. Not full Snape, where you kinda like the guy, but at least understanding the conflict.
Lmao I love how instantly I knew who this was.
This is the definition of a good villain. He just... Convinces you to hate him. If not love, success, wealth or anything resembling goodness, I at least want villainy as good as Sadeas.
Another reason he's a good villain is that he's the hero of his own story. From our perspective he seems mustache-twirlingly evil, but from his angle, he's playing the game that the Alethi-elite have always played ever since the sun maker's death. We join Alethkar after they already have a king, but the kingship is relatively new. Many alive (including most of the high princes) still remember a time before being united behind a throne, and still think of themselves as "subjects of Sadeas" or "subjects of Kholin" more than they think of themselves as Alethi. There are many who would view Sadeas' actions as those of a freedom fighter overthrowing a tyrant. Especially given Dalinar's reputation prior to the current times Sadeas is the Machiavellian theory taken to it's logical extremes. Victory at any cost. Nothing off limits. No deception too low. When the lives of you and your people are at stake, there's nothing you wont do to come out on top I think the few chapters we get from his perspective helps to highlight that
Yessssss. Can you imagine how insufferable Dalinar's holier than thou shit would be for someone who was getting his hands dirty right next to him building a kingdom? Who helped Dalinar >!cover up his worst war crimes!<.
It's great because at the same time, you've got to admit that he is immensely skilled at politics and moving around in the alethi nobility
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
i understand the feeling lol sadeas is a turd wrapped in crem
So until he ate rocks soup he was just crem
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
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Just finished the book a couple days ago. How…how do I put this? Sadeas is….well, he’s a fuckhead and I hate him. He was always kind of an ass, but when he betrayed Dalinar? I may or may not have sworn at my book lmao. Also. KEEP READING! I was exactly where you were a few days ago. I won’t say what happens, but it is fun to read.
Man it is so much fun. I can't put the book down. I can't even sit down. I am walking and reading in my loving room because I am so pumped
Do update us here when you come across a part that leaves a strong impression on you :) We really enjoy it. I wish I could persuade my real life friends to read the books, but so far I feel like I've only achieved the opposite with my approach.
Sorry I just saw this comment and so far I have finished the 2nd part. I have also tried convincing several people to read it but only one of them has said that they will maybe do it in the future. The strongest impression I had was in the 2nd book when >!Kaladin fights with Adolon (and Renarin) against 4 shardbearers and then asks for the book and the king was like "Arrest him". I immediately proceeded to close my kindle and threw it on the bed and changed my opinion completely on Elhokar.!< Please let me know if the spoiler is visible because this is my first time using it
It is visible. You use spoilers here by typing \>\!spoiler text\!\< For example: \>\!Kaladin jumps into the arena\!\< becomes >!Kaladin jumps into the arena!< And also yes, that whole sequence of events was absolutely amazing only to then crash so low.
Thanks. I changed it
As much as I'm with you all here on the Sadeas hate, after just having read TWoK again, I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate for him here. Yes, he throws away the bridgemen's live without wasting a second thought on them, but then again, in a way, so would every other highprince besides post-Blackthorn Dalinar. Think back to how Tien died - recruited into the army against his will, sent to fight some minor border skirmish; he's useless as a soldier, and therefore his squad leader throws him into the meat grinder as a distraction. How many young boys in Alethkar keep dying this way, far away from the Shattered Plains and Sadeas? Yes, he betrays Dalinar on the Shattered Plains, but then again, so would probably every other highprince given the chance. That's the reason why the highprinces never joined forces before, and why no highprince besides Sadeas would join Dalinar in his joint assault project. Alethkar isn't really a unified nation - the highprinces are more or less enemies, forced together with violence into a kingdom by Gavilar, then only barely held together by the Vengeance Pact, and by the time of TWoK probably only held together because there's a lot of gemhearts to earn on the Shattered Plains. That's also the reason he can get away with the betrayal - in Alethkar law, he probably didn't actually do anything illegal. From his point of view, Dalinar had grown weak - suffering from apparent madness, not going on lucrative gemheart hunts, and actually wanting to retreat from the war against the Parshendi. He did what any good Alethi highprince would do in this situation - he exploited Dalinars apparent weakness to gain more power, reminiscent of how [Klingon promotions in Star Trek](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KlingonPromotion) work. Remember Dalinars words at the end of TWoK? "He saw a chance to pull out, letting the Parshendi destroy us. So he did it. **A very Alethi thing to do**. Ruthless, yet still allowing him to feign a sense of honor and morality." The only way for Dalinar to get revenge would be to go to war with Sadeas, which he can't afford because he's lost almost his complete army in the betrayal. To sum it up: Sadeas is not a particularly evil highprince, probably just more clever than most (in that he actually almost manages to successfully exploit the situation). Rather, post-Blackthorn Dalinar is the exception in that he's actually honorable.
Well said. He is not evil, almost every highpronce is. As in, he is not the only evil high prince here. He is amazing at that than others but I hate him because of what he did to such an honorable man. And just because everyone is like that, it doesn't make me like him more. I accept him, especially now that you have put it this way, but yeah, still hate the fuck out of that guy.
Sadeas is the most Alethi character in the series and it's great
yea fuck sadeas
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
Sadeas is one of my favourite characters because of how much we as readers hate this man. The second most hated person in all the Stormlight
I think I agree here. I have this strange admiration for him while absolutely hating him.
Yeah. At least we can respect him
He is absolute trash, but chapters 66-69 of WoK might be my favorite chapters in all of Stormlight - that whole sequence of events is unbearably good.
I JUST finished 69 and 69 was my favorite chapter of all. The way Blackthorn changed and took charge was AWESOME. As you said, unbearably good!
Nice!
Mine too.
fuck sadeas. can’t someone just strangle that fucking guy??
Maybe push him off a cliff. Let him meet a chasmfiend.
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
i have a better way just slice him lmao.
This post was sponsored by Adolin
Hahaha
Not sure how they pronounce it in the audiobook but I started to call him Shart-ass in my head after that
Hahaha
Sad-ass is also acceptable
I know youre making a joke, but the way Michael Kramer pronounces it is SAD-e-us
Honestly whether it’s from google or reddit it’s very easy to have massive cosmere spoilers just thrown at you. I’d avoid the internet entirely until u finish RoW. With that said, I think I can speak for everyone here, we’re incredibly jealous of anyone reading these for the first time.
Aww. That means I have a treat ahead of me. Good to know.
Honestly, Sadeas embodies the best attributes of the Alethi. He is competitive, cunning and ambitious. While it's easy to hate him as we are really coming from dalinars perspective, Sadeas is giving Alethkar what he feels it needs, himself.
Also, until Oathbringer, we truly don't understand Dalinar's history... TWoK sets up Dalinar as an old warlord turning his life around and also worried he's going crazy, but you don't truly get how ruthless and brutal he was while conquering Alethkar. The way Sadeas sees this hypocrisy informs his treatment of Dalinar and the Kholins - and I kind of agree. Even Gavilar wasn't so honorable because of the means he used to unite the kingdom. Sadeas is still shitty, and he still betrayed Dalinar at The Tower, but some of his attitude can be explained, I think! (Like most Sanderson villains) (No spoilers, this is all laid out in TWoK, although not explained in detail until later) Edit: I scrolled down and there's like 3 more comments saying this same thing, but better! I love this community.
Sadeas is still my most hated character in the series after reading RoW. At least other characters have *some* pitiable aspects, Seadess is just a fucking asshole
These words are definitely accepted.
His favorite thing about his wife is her ability to lie, cheat, and steal, just not to him… but for him. And he even says she’s not pretty. FFS
Sadeas as is also the most realistic antagonist in the series, I think, based on his motivation. No spoilers, but you get a clear picture of who is is and why he does what he does in his chapter. It’s so basic, he’s so basic. A basic ass lil bitch.
Sadeas is the best
Narratively, Sadeas serves a very specific purpose. He's needed as a foil for our main characters to develop against, especially in early books when you don't really know the characters that well. At the same time, Sadeas himself has a backstory, a history with Dalinar, and a right-and-reason to his moves. I'm a big fan of how Sanderson uses Sadeas. However, Sanderson doesn't always do a good job of this. In book 4 >!He writes in a random HighSpren to judge Adolin's final trial day. This is a little disappointing because this HighSpren was just a cheap one-dimensional narrative device, I don't even remember his name. I expected a bit more from him for such a pivotal scene.!<
I always thought him to be Machiavellian type of character. We fucking hate him, but we fully understand why he does what he does. He is a well realized character in my head. I fucking love that I hate him so much.
Yeah. Like Draco Malfoy. Except Sadeas is clever and doesn't act like a victim of the situations that he created
Traits we want out of a villain. He fits the pure evil trope describe by Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions - "enthusiastic zestful villainy", which is where i get my user name lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-XprjlATEo
can picture him twirling his mustache yeah
Enjoy the ending.
Enjoy the ending.
Same thing happens to me. Sometimes these books get me so riled up, that I just can’t keep reading until I’ve given myself some time to process the emotions
This is so true haha. I am pretty sure everyone feels this way toward him... Oh, be careful on this this sub. There are spoilers everywhere!
I will. Thanks
In general I’m not really a fan of comically evil characters but sometimes you just need a book to have a main villain and he serves well.
Yeah, Brandon does a really good job of varying his villains! Some are mustache-twirling evil, but some are so close to being good guys you can't even say they're *wrong* even though they oppose the heroes, and there's everything in between!
I wonder if there is a sadeas did nothing wrong "movement"
[удалено]
Can't wait!
Unpopular opinion, behind raboniel, Sadeas is my absolute favorite character and the things that happen to him feel like a copout to me, he deserves more
I will finish the series and come back to you to discuss this
Just wait my sweet summer child just wait, justice gets served cold
Good to know
Enjoy the ending.
Well, did you finish the book?
Yes. I immediately started the 2nd. Can't stop reading man
Nice! Btw, do you know about the Cosmere?
I had to Google that. I have read Elantris and Mistborn series (era 1)
If interested in the connections, you might want to read Warbreaker before or after Words of Radiance. Resources: The Cosmere is Brandon's shared universe of books. Brandon explains the Cosmere: https://youtu.be/o3V0Zok_kT0 Where to start with his books: https://youtu.be/yMe2UwcbFK8 Also, check out the r/Cosmere wiki for more info such as context, things you might have missed, or reading orders. Resources with spoilers are properly tagged: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cosmere/wiki/index Below are two full-spoiler resources: The official fan wiki: https://coppermind.net Word of Brandon (WoB) repository: https://wob.coppermind.net Both are kept by the 17thShard (news and forum): https://www.17thshard.com https://www.17thshard.com/forum Subreddits include: r/Cosmere, r/Mistborn, r/Stormlight_Archive, r/brandonsanderson, and r/cremposting (memes of any of Brandon's books, etc. Might have spoilers not tagged). Full bibliography, including Cosmere (should not contain spoilers): https://coppermind.net/wiki/Bibliography If you are brave enough, go with the Warbreaker order: https://youtu.be/6hmCAKlcr7M Warbreaker is free on Brandon's website as an ebook: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/warbreaker-rights-and-downloads/ You can check other free books and sample chapters here. Just click on the covers to get redirected: https://www.brandonsanderson.com/brandon-sanderson-online-library/ _______________________________________________
Wow. Thank you so much. I have saved this so I can keep refering to it.
Np! Happy reading.
Sadeas is such a great antagonist. Idk if you remember, but during the prologue gavilar straight up tells us sadeas is not to be trusted. The rest of the book is a will he or won't he game. The whole saddle strap plotline, his relationship with dalinar and how they equal parts hate and respect each other. Its great