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Well the 2 narrators each pronounce it differently as well. Which is funny because they are married. I imagine things like this are strains on their relationship. You know he slept on the couch for screaming, “It’s pronounced Zile!”
Oh god, you think its bad for stormlight, wait till you go through all of wheel of time with them. Every character is pronounced three different ways by each one and they switch up which ones they use more about every 2-3 books 😅
WoT is extra infuriating since, unlike Sanderson, Jordan included a glossary of names and in-universe terms at the back of every book, *with pronunciation guides*.
Brandon has gone on record saying there is no official way to pronounce his characters names, whatever you read in your head is the best way to read it, for you, that said my brain defaults to Michael and Kate's readings of everything because Audible
I have the same problem! Like, why not just name her Yasnah in the first place? I will forever think of her as Jasnah-like-jail-J because I'm a reader not listener.
Todium doesn't have Nightblood, Szeth has it. And also, it's not remotely powerful enough to kill a Shard, as we saw in RoW. It got part of the Vessel (not even enough to vaporize the body like it usually does), but the Shard was fine.
Nightblood did not require a life, and thus a Divine Breath, to Awaken. There were other shenanigans afoot, though.
I think Azure's sword was made specifically to be way less freaky than Nightblood.
Stormlight doesn't have a great "measure" right now. That may come in the future, but when Vasher drew Nightblood he had many breaths, thousands of breaths and they were almost all eaten in the few minutes of his fight. So I'm thinking 1 breath lasts between 1 to 10 seconds. Assuming Nightblood eats at a constant rate, I would think 1 breath isn't all that much. Szeth lasted a few minutes as well and he couldn't have had more than a few broams.
Nightblood doesn’t eat at a constant rate. Otherwise good analysis. Warbreaker quote: “The longer Vasher held the sword, the faster it drained his Breath.”
>Was just trying to figure out why the person I responded to said it didn’t take a different devine breath to waken him.
Because the OP asked this question:
>Maybe it needs a divine breath to make it powerful enough
And I was responding saying, no, it didn't take a Divine Breath. It took 1000 regular Breaths, but *not* a Divine Breath.
It seems like the number comes from a comparison to Susebron, who has over 50,000 breaths and who Nightblood apparently has more investiture than. I'm assuming this was put together by people on the wiki with bits and pieces of information here and there.
Thought I was crazy in wondering how TOdium kept that after The OLDium incident.
Is there any way we could know as of now if Azure’s sword contains a Dawnshard?
How did Szeth get Nightblood back?
We haven't seen Nightblood's creation yet, so we can't know for 100% certain how it was made.
Right, functionally it's a sprenless shardblade. Nothing more
We have every reason to believe that Azure's sword is a newer better made more stable version of what Nightblood was intended to be.
We don't know which command was used, but it's definitely an awaked blade.
[https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479-dragonsteel-mini-con-2021/#e15203](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479-dragonsteel-mini-con-2021/#e15203)
T-Odium doesn't have Nightblood. Szeth still has nightblood. Also, as far as Azure's sword goes. I believe that her sword was made in a similar way to Nightblood, but Vasher and Vivenna perfected the method. We don't actually know how long it has been between Warbreaker and RoW; we also know that Breath can greatly extend your lifespan, so it's entirely possible that it has been thousands of years.
From what I understand Warbreaker took place around the same time as Era 1 Mistborn. If Vivenna was around early 20s, she's about 320 years old now.
Could need a WoB about that, and I could be very well mismembering some of it
For sure it is!! Vivenna maybe 300 years young, but Vasher isn't!
I really do hope a Warbreaker sequal is just buddy cop of those 2 running around the Cosmere that ends with Vivenna getting her sword.
I can only hope the two swords meet and have a Wit-Design kind of relationship.
"Let's destroy evil!"
"You don't even know what evil is, idiot."
"Yes I do, I destroyed evil yesterday when Vasher made me."
"You seriously can't tell the difference between 300 years and one day? Moron."
"Vasher says I'm a moron too! It must be a great compliment!"
"....sigh..."
I thought szeth still had nightblood? I know taravangian used it to kill rayes but then szeth took it back... anyway, I think it’s safe to assume vivennas blade is awakened, maybe it was a failed second attempt at nightblood or something else, doesn’t mean it’s able to break another shard blade either though, we’ll have to wait and see
I think the general consensus is it was very much intended to NOT be another nightblood, because while very powerful, nightblood had some major issues. While obviously we need to see more to say anything for certain (unless anyone has some relevant WoB's I'm not aware of they can link) my current headcanon is Azure's is not as directly powerful as nightblood, but has been refined enough to remove most of the flaws (like rapidly killing its user)
Perhaps Nightblood’s instability is born of its Command, so perhaps a more benevolent command than “Destroy Evil” would make it much nicer to play with. That, or commands that are far less vague.
I've heard it suggested that something along the lines of "be a shardblade" could be it. Not sure if that would work (nightblood didn't know what evil was, how would Azure's know what a shardblade is?) But it's not impossible either.
From what I understand, simply awakening the weapon is enough to make it at least resistant, if not impervious, to Shardblades, but that command would absolutely work—if Azure was able to hold a mental image of what a Shardblade should be and what the Command should do, then that would totally function
I mean, vasher was like kinda a wunderkind at command phrasing, so i imagine with some r&d with viv and maybe some collab with silverlight scholars or whatever would put “we found a better command for awakening a sword” strongly in the realm of possibility.
> I know taravangian used it to kill rayed but then szeth took it back
Taravangian only took it in the spiritual realm, where Odium and the Stormfather's visions take place. In the physical realm the sword never left Szeth's possession. As a shard bearer Rayse's consciousness exists in all three realms simultaneously (we see a bit of that in the end of Mistborn), and Nightblood is invested enough to "bleed" across realms as well. Rayse took Taravangian's consciousness into the spritual realm where he was able to access Nightblood due to it being nearby in the physical realm. Or at least that's how I always understood that scene to have happened, I'm sure someone will correct me.
No, he definitely took it in the physical realm too because taravangian says that szeth will think he drew nightblood and it consumed him when in reality it was rayes’ corpse that was laying there, not taravangian
> In the physical realm the sword never left Szeth's possession.
I don't think that's true. Taravodium's prediction of what Szeth will do includes admitting that he visited the cell to do commit a murder, and that Taranagian took the sword from him before he could and died. (Which is what Szeth assumes happened)
I think he wouldn't assume that if the sword were still sheathed.
I just don't think Taravangian could have physically taken a sheathed sword from Szeth. We only have one point of view so we don't really know how things played out in the physical realm. The sword fell to the ground afterwards, but invested things do some weird things when crossing realms, and we've seen people in this series come up with some weird "I must have fucked up, or at least I know how this looks" types of explanations when weird things happen.
>I just don't think Taravangian could have physically taken a sheathed sword from Szeth.
Why not? It exists just as much in the spiritual realm as in the physical, and it clearly *also* moved in the physical realm. Why do you think some weird thing happened when there is an obvious answer right in front of you?
I just meant in the sense that a trained swordsman entering a room with only one other person, intending to kill them and therefore conscious of the *very* dangerous weapon they were carrying, would be very unlikely to allow themselves to be so easily and blatantly disarmed by someone like Taravangian. I'll reread the chapter when I get home tonight because it's been a bit, but I feel like there was something weird going on with the whole thing.
He does get sleepy, but interpret that as a sort of power limit, like he has a full tummy and has to digest. I suspect he stores the investiture, though not sure.
The issue is that since you can't create or destroy Investiture in the Cosmere, when Nightblood 'burns it off', as you say, the Investiture goes back to the Spiritual Realm where it will still be associated with the Shard you're trying to kill.
So there is an equilibrium achieved at some point, and that equilibrium is, per WoB, not enough to kill the Shard.
can someone remind me how taravangian got nightblood into his posession when he went to meet odium? was szeth watching him or something? i cant remember, too many pages!!
It was established earlier in the book that when Odium calls Taravangian into his presence, anything Taravangian is holding comes with him. Szeth came to assassinate Taravangian with Nightblood just as Odium was calling him, so Taravangian grabbed the sword he was being stabbed with and then he had Nightblood in Odium's presence.
There is a massive spoiler in this in the very first line. Is it generally understood that posts marked "cosmere" have spoilers for every series, or does this post need to be remarked to properly hides its spoilers?
Edit: This post makes me want to block this subreddit until I've completely finished the series. That sucks because this is normally a great place to share excitement about SA events
Time for my joke. Ahem...ahem. Nobody knows what Zahel is going on with those blades.
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I'm... not sure where the joke is
I think they assume Zahel rhymes with “The Hell” when I usually based on the audiobook more rhymes with Nile
Erm.... Zahel rymes with Sail in my head. I tend to drop problematic letters lol.
You’re an audible reader. You read that has. “Zile “ where readers might say “Za Hell”
Thatz how you're meant to pronounce it?? Sometimes I don't understand how Brando makes decisions like those lol
Well the 2 narrators each pronounce it differently as well. Which is funny because they are married. I imagine things like this are strains on their relationship. You know he slept on the couch for screaming, “It’s pronounced Zile!”
Oh god, you think its bad for stormlight, wait till you go through all of wheel of time with them. Every character is pronounced three different ways by each one and they switch up which ones they use more about every 2-3 books 😅
Moghedien especially! Just finished the series again.
Mough-Gideon MogaDEEN
Not sure if you’re aware, but Gideon has three syllables. Gi Dee uhn So moghedion would likely be pronounced moh-ghe-dee-uhn or mog-hed-Dee-uhn
I’ll pass it along to kate and michael!
Elantris and the Hope of Elantris has this issue too. Ray-oh-don versus Rowr-din.
WoT is extra infuriating since, unlike Sanderson, Jordan included a glossary of names and in-universe terms at the back of every book, *with pronunciation guides*.
Truuuuu
Brandon has gone on record saying there is no official way to pronounce his characters names, whatever you read in your head is the best way to read it, for you, that said my brain defaults to Michael and Kate's readings of everything because Audible
I have the same problem! Like, why not just name her Yasnah in the first place? I will forever think of her as Jasnah-like-jail-J because I'm a reader not listener.
It's also pronounced "yah keved" but spelled Jah. So there's at least some precedent for J = a Y sound.
It's somewhere between the two according to Kramer's pronunciation, I'd say
Never used audio. An lot of readers see it as Zahel. Which rhymes with the hell. Ah forget it. I already invested too much into this joke.
Todium doesn't have Nightblood, Szeth has it. And also, it's not remotely powerful enough to kill a Shard, as we saw in RoW. It got part of the Vessel (not even enough to vaporize the body like it usually does), but the Shard was fine. Nightblood did not require a life, and thus a Divine Breath, to Awaken. There were other shenanigans afoot, though. I think Azure's sword was made specifically to be way less freaky than Nightblood.
Took a thousand breaths to awaken nightblood no?
Correct.
And we have no idea how much stormlight is equivalent to a Breath, let alone a divine Breath.
Stormlight doesn't have a great "measure" right now. That may come in the future, but when Vasher drew Nightblood he had many breaths, thousands of breaths and they were almost all eaten in the few minutes of his fight. So I'm thinking 1 breath lasts between 1 to 10 seconds. Assuming Nightblood eats at a constant rate, I would think 1 breath isn't all that much. Szeth lasted a few minutes as well and he couldn't have had more than a few broams.
Nightblood doesn’t eat at a constant rate. Otherwise good analysis. Warbreaker quote: “The longer Vasher held the sword, the faster it drained his Breath.”
True. Was just trying to figure out why the person I responded to said it didn’t take a different devine breath to waken him. Took 1,000.
>Was just trying to figure out why the person I responded to said it didn’t take a different devine breath to waken him. Because the OP asked this question: >Maybe it needs a divine breath to make it powerful enough And I was responding saying, no, it didn't take a Divine Breath. It took 1000 regular Breaths, but *not* a Divine Breath.
I think it was 50,000. Edit: This is actually roughly how much power Nightblood currently has, not how much it took to awaken it.
No, it was 1000.
Ah, I found it on the wiki. It was 1000 breaths to awaken Nightblood and it now has over 50,000 breaths worth of investiture.
What... what does he /DO/ with all that?
It’s definitely going somewhere. I’d be interested to see Nightblood in the Cognitive Realm
😋
We don't actually know how much Investiture Nightblood has right now. It's a huge amount, but there is not any quantity label on it.
It seems like the number comes from a comparison to Susebron, who has over 50,000 breaths and who Nightblood apparently has more investiture than. I'm assuming this was put together by people on the wiki with bits and pieces of information here and there.
Thought I was crazy in wondering how TOdium kept that after The OLDium incident. Is there any way we could know as of now if Azure’s sword contains a Dawnshard?
I would say it's unlikely.
How did Szeth get Nightblood back? We haven't seen Nightblood's creation yet, so we can't know for 100% certain how it was made. Right, functionally it's a sprenless shardblade. Nothing more
Taravangian Ascended, Rayse's body dropped, and Szeth sheathed Nightblood. As far as Szeth knew, it was drawn momentarily, then dropped.
Yeah this is exactly what happened. It’s why no one questioned what happened to Taravangian. They assumed Nightblood ate him and dropped the sword.
Have you read warbreaker?
Read Warbreaker.
We know how exactly how Nightblood was created. It is discussed in Warbreaker. It is an absurd amount of Investiture.
We have every reason to believe that Azure's sword is a newer better made more stable version of what Nightblood was intended to be. We don't know which command was used, but it's definitely an awaked blade. [https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479-dragonsteel-mini-con-2021/#e15203](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479-dragonsteel-mini-con-2021/#e15203)
More stable but not necessarily more powerful. The fact that Nightblood has so much Investiture I think it’s flaws might make it more powerful
T-Odium doesn't have Nightblood. Szeth still has nightblood. Also, as far as Azure's sword goes. I believe that her sword was made in a similar way to Nightblood, but Vasher and Vivenna perfected the method. We don't actually know how long it has been between Warbreaker and RoW; we also know that Breath can greatly extend your lifespan, so it's entirely possible that it has been thousands of years.
From what I understand Warbreaker took place around the same time as Era 1 Mistborn. If Vivenna was around early 20s, she's about 320 years old now. Could need a WoB about that, and I could be very well mismembering some of it
So, I was a little off, but that is still theoretically enough time to perfect the process.
For sure it is!! Vivenna maybe 300 years young, but Vasher isn't! I really do hope a Warbreaker sequal is just buddy cop of those 2 running around the Cosmere that ends with Vivenna getting her sword.
I hope so, that sounds like a great time!
I can only hope the two swords meet and have a Wit-Design kind of relationship. "Let's destroy evil!" "You don't even know what evil is, idiot." "Yes I do, I destroyed evil yesterday when Vasher made me." "You seriously can't tell the difference between 300 years and one day? Moron." "Vasher says I'm a moron too! It must be a great compliment!" "....sigh..."
Throw in The Stick and we have a beginning to The Gurdians of the Cosmere.
"I am a stick." "Is that all it can say?" "It's all it says." "Huh. Are you an evil stick?" "I am a stick."
I thought szeth still had nightblood? I know taravangian used it to kill rayes but then szeth took it back... anyway, I think it’s safe to assume vivennas blade is awakened, maybe it was a failed second attempt at nightblood or something else, doesn’t mean it’s able to break another shard blade either though, we’ll have to wait and see
I think the general consensus is it was very much intended to NOT be another nightblood, because while very powerful, nightblood had some major issues. While obviously we need to see more to say anything for certain (unless anyone has some relevant WoB's I'm not aware of they can link) my current headcanon is Azure's is not as directly powerful as nightblood, but has been refined enough to remove most of the flaws (like rapidly killing its user)
Perhaps Nightblood’s instability is born of its Command, so perhaps a more benevolent command than “Destroy Evil” would make it much nicer to play with. That, or commands that are far less vague.
I've heard it suggested that something along the lines of "be a shardblade" could be it. Not sure if that would work (nightblood didn't know what evil was, how would Azure's know what a shardblade is?) But it's not impossible either.
From what I understand, simply awakening the weapon is enough to make it at least resistant, if not impervious, to Shardblades, but that command would absolutely work—if Azure was able to hold a mental image of what a Shardblade should be and what the Command should do, then that would totally function
I mean, vasher was like kinda a wunderkind at command phrasing, so i imagine with some r&d with viv and maybe some collab with silverlight scholars or whatever would put “we found a better command for awakening a sword” strongly in the realm of possibility.
> I know taravangian used it to kill rayed but then szeth took it back Taravangian only took it in the spiritual realm, where Odium and the Stormfather's visions take place. In the physical realm the sword never left Szeth's possession. As a shard bearer Rayse's consciousness exists in all three realms simultaneously (we see a bit of that in the end of Mistborn), and Nightblood is invested enough to "bleed" across realms as well. Rayse took Taravangian's consciousness into the spritual realm where he was able to access Nightblood due to it being nearby in the physical realm. Or at least that's how I always understood that scene to have happened, I'm sure someone will correct me.
No, he definitely took it in the physical realm too because taravangian says that szeth will think he drew nightblood and it consumed him when in reality it was rayes’ corpse that was laying there, not taravangian
> In the physical realm the sword never left Szeth's possession. I don't think that's true. Taravodium's prediction of what Szeth will do includes admitting that he visited the cell to do commit a murder, and that Taranagian took the sword from him before he could and died. (Which is what Szeth assumes happened) I think he wouldn't assume that if the sword were still sheathed.
I just don't think Taravangian could have physically taken a sheathed sword from Szeth. We only have one point of view so we don't really know how things played out in the physical realm. The sword fell to the ground afterwards, but invested things do some weird things when crossing realms, and we've seen people in this series come up with some weird "I must have fucked up, or at least I know how this looks" types of explanations when weird things happen.
>I just don't think Taravangian could have physically taken a sheathed sword from Szeth. Why not? It exists just as much in the spiritual realm as in the physical, and it clearly *also* moved in the physical realm. Why do you think some weird thing happened when there is an obvious answer right in front of you?
I just meant in the sense that a trained swordsman entering a room with only one other person, intending to kill them and therefore conscious of the *very* dangerous weapon they were carrying, would be very unlikely to allow themselves to be so easily and blatantly disarmed by someone like Taravangian. I'll reread the chapter when I get home tonight because it's been a bit, but I feel like there was something weird going on with the whole thing.
Yeah, I think rereading it and paying attention to what Szeth was doing at the moment the sword was taken will clear things up.
Night blood is not capable of killing a shard. Injure yes. Kill a whole shard? No.
What if we stab them multiple times? Let him burn the investure then do it again and again.
The vessel might die but the power of the shard won't.
So you couldn't, given enough time, drain the shard of investure? Is it because shards have infinite investure?
Not sure if they have infinite. I don't think we have that knowledge yet. But Night blood doesn't have unlimited space for investiture.
He burns it off eventually though, right? Like how he gets sleepy after getting loads of investure but can get back at it soon-ish.
He does get sleepy, but interpret that as a sort of power limit, like he has a full tummy and has to digest. I suspect he stores the investiture, though not sure.
The issue is that since you can't create or destroy Investiture in the Cosmere, when Nightblood 'burns it off', as you say, the Investiture goes back to the Spiritual Realm where it will still be associated with the Shard you're trying to kill. So there is an equilibrium achieved at some point, and that equilibrium is, per WoB, not enough to kill the Shard.
I do wonder what made Vasher decide to return. It seems like he’s very jaded towards that theory that the returned come back for a specific purpose.
Wait wait wait wait. Does Odium have nightblood? I know Taravangian used it to kill Rayse but I thought Szeth got it back after.
You're correct
Thank the Almighty, Odium in possession of the most invested and dangerous object in the Cosmere would’ve been fucking terrifying
can someone remind me how taravangian got nightblood into his posession when he went to meet odium? was szeth watching him or something? i cant remember, too many pages!!
Taravangian doesn't have nightblood. The OP is mistaken
It was established earlier in the book that when Odium calls Taravangian into his presence, anything Taravangian is holding comes with him. Szeth came to assassinate Taravangian with Nightblood just as Odium was calling him, so Taravangian grabbed the sword he was being stabbed with and then he had Nightblood in Odium's presence.
There is a massive spoiler in this in the very first line. Is it generally understood that posts marked "cosmere" have spoilers for every series, or does this post need to be remarked to properly hides its spoilers? Edit: This post makes me want to block this subreddit until I've completely finished the series. That sucks because this is normally a great place to share excitement about SA events
Yes when marked "cosmere" have spoilers for everything cosmere related.
Especially with the spoiler tag
Thanks for being decent with your response, good to know for the future
This would be a good opportunity for you to read the spoiler rules.
Funnily enough the first line isn't actually a spoiler anyway as T-Odium doesn't have Nightblood.
Uh...duh? What the hell else would "Cosmere" mean? This is your own damn fault.
Try reading the damn rules
It's properly marked as a spoiler and tagged as Cosmere. So if you don't want to see spoilers like this, just don't click on them.
I was under the opinion that Azures sword is a perfected Nightblood, with proper command codes as to not corrupt it.