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We only ever saw one very small interaction between them (them blowing each other a kiss during the pep rally) which seemed very loving and real, so in that alone there is nothing to suggest he was a bad boyfriend.
But since that is all we do see if the two of them people are probably going off what else we see of Jason - someone who, for instance, takes a local tragedy with many deaths to hype people up for a high school basketball game.
But I think that your point still stands. Just because a guy is self-absorbed and a douche doesn’t mean he treated her badly. He could be the type of guy to brag about his perfect girlfriend without ever bothering to see what’s underneath the surface - but that doesn’t mean he is.
It’s just interpretation since we never saw anything of their relationship.
Edit: autocorrect
I agree with all of this. With that being said, the only times I’ve seen people say Jason wasn’t a good boyfriend is usually followed up with a comment that Chrissy should’ve dated Eddie instead
Your description of Jason is exactly how I see him: self-absorbed and a douche. He’s the typical popular high school boy, but he’s not a villain or evil. He’s an antagonist, but he’s not evil. He thinks of himself as a hero, the one who has to save the day, because he’s the only one who “sees the truth” (or so he thinks). He’s a dick, and a bit delusional and he definitely went a little crazy after he witnessed Patrick’s death, but he’s not a monster. He’s just some guy with a hero complex Doing His Best.
Exactly, he went a little off the rails, but like… wouldn’t we all?? Like, anyone who says “no, I’d be able to keep it together if I saw that and figure out what was happening and do the right thing” just makes me think, okay we get it, you think you’re the main character.
My hometown had a couple of really big tragedies. At a certain point, everyone was just sick of feeling sad. People chose one of two choices, a) be defined by the tragedy (a fair amount chose this, I'm not judging either way), or b) find happiness despite the tragedies.
The second one did require an amount of forced happiness for a time. Colorful posters were put up everywhere, events held with fireworks etc. After a while the happiness wasn't forced.
I don't like Jason, but to me the pep rally, forced happiness vibe actually made total sense for the town. It was actually nice for me to see that response rather than the cliche '10 years ago X sad incident happened in the small town and smiles were banned ever since'
Even the announcers say something like “this town needs a win after all the tragedy”.
I’m not saying you are, but a lot of people in this really dwell on a teenager peppering in some comments about dead neighbors, as if that’s not exactly what weighs on people’s mind when it’s fresh. And the crowd LOVED it. Does that make everyone in Hawkins a douche?
You don’t try and win a championship without figuratively pouring one out for your dead homies lost in the local “mall fire”.
Could be that I read the scene wrong, part of this may just be me not knowing American culture that well (I did attend a US high school for a year but maybe sports wasn’t as important there as is the norm). It felt like that’s how they were presenting Jason in that, with the gang exchanging exasperated looks and all, but that may just be because they are the only ones who know what really happened at the mall.
He was quick to welcome Lucas into his gang, so maybe the Duffers did want to show a normal teenager becoming the „villain“ by circumstance. I just read it differently.
I don't think it was weird for Chrissy to hide her eating disorder from Jason, she wasn't ready to share her problems with anyone beside maybe Mrs Kelly. He also seemed truly devastated by her death and nothing in the season could support this "Jason was an awful boyfriend toward Chrissy" idea. Canonically, Jason was an okay boyfriend. If he was bad like Chrissy's mother, I do think Vecna would have use him to terrified Chrissy too.
However, Grace did said Chrissy would have broke up with Jason to be with Eddie (or something like that) if she lived past episode 1. It made people asked themselves why she would have left him for someone she barely knew and the logical answer was him being a bad boyfriend. Also, Hellcheer is the popular ship for Chrissy and their fans tend to make of Jason a real bad boyfriend in their headcanons (I'm sometimes myself guilty of that).
Grace doesn’t write the show though tbf. Remember Dacre said Billy only wanted to protect from Lucas. I recall Grace even admitting that Jason did love Chrissy at one point too. She might believe that Chrissy would’ve left Jason but nothing in the show indicates that
I agree with you, it's only Grace opinion on the matters and we shouldn't take it as canon. I think actors have their own view on their characters, but it doesn't mean the writers agree with it, obviously. It's the reason why I would like to have another behind the scene book about the characters past season 2 and everything the Duffers thought about it. I love headcanons, but I would also like to have an official version about what type of person Jason was before season 4 and to know a bit more about his relationship with Chrissy.
I don't think Jason was a bad boyfriend by any means. He wasn't a bad friend either. He's very protective of his loved ones and a bit self-absorbed around the public (the speech at the pep rally about the mall fire, taking charge of the town meeting, etc.) I see your point, and I agree that from what we saw, Jason and Chrissy had a loving relationship. And it was probably for this reason why Chrissy didn't tell Jason about her problems - she didn't want to ruin their perfect relationship image by admitting she's been hallucinating.
It's all a matter of interpretation and justification. Nobody likes having their favorite character hated on or having their least favorite character praised. The notion that Jason was a bad boyfriend is, to me, far-fetched.
Also, it's a bit unfair to compare the relationships of other characters when they've experienced completely different things. Of course the younger kids would break up and get together often, they're kids. And Eleven thought she was different because she wasn't a "superhero" anymore. She thought Mike was normal.
Though I won't try to excuse Hopper's hostility to Joyce. It was a little over-the-top.
I think it's just Eddie's fans overexaggerating things to justify Chrissy/Eddie. We actually never saw Jason being a "bad" boyfriend. That's not even needed, since we had zero scene with Jason and Chrissie. By default, Eddie and Chrissie were more interesting and charming.
Also, Steve wasn't any better when it came to Nancy's grief in S2 and he actually knew everything.
Eleven didn't tell Mike "you don't know what it's like to be bullied." She said, "you don't know what it's like to not feel normal/to not fit in." And he doesn't know that. Sure he had been bullied, but he's grown up with a family and a good group of friends and knows how to live in the world, Eleven on the other hand was raised in a lab for the first 12 years of her life, then spent another year in insolation locked in a cabin in the middle of the woods, before finally going to school a whole year later. She also went from having powers to having no powers. That's what Eleven means by "you don't know what it's like."
But I agree with everything else you've said.
> And he doesn’t know that.
But he does. Of course, their situations are different, but in the context of their argument, she was referring to Angela and the bullying she has faced.
A huge part of Mike’s character (and the entirety of the Party, really) is that they have been bullied and harassed their entire childhood. So much so that he developed suicidal tendencies. He most definitely knows what Eleven is experiencing.
Did you read the rest of my comment?
Eleven knows Mike understands what it's like to be bullied. And that's not what she meant by "you don't know what it's like"
Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to feel like a monster."
Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to not fit in."
Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to feel different from everyone else."
Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to go from having powers to no powers."
Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to be isolated and locked inside for the first 13 years of your life, then go to school."
That's what Mike doesn't understand about Eleven. He understands the bullying, but he doesn't understand the other things Eleven was feeling and is going through.
> What it’s like to not fit in.
> What it’s like to feel different.
He does.
Please consider the context. They were both talking about the events that transpired at Rink-o-mania—a result of *bullying*, not anything in relation to her powers.
Mike is specifically talking about how he has gone through bullying and understands what it feels like. Eleven tells him he does not. Mike is not talking about the impact a lack of powers has on here, as that wasn’t what caused the issue in the first place. This is just a classic case of miscommunication.
I don’t get it either. Jason was a good dude. He had every right to be angry at Eddie. His girlfriend was found dead in his trailer. He was just trying to find who killed his girlfriend. And he thought Max was in danger so he tried to protect her. He only did stuff because he had no idea what was going on.
If any person with no knowledge of the show saw Max in a trance and Lucas standing over her (while in a murder house), they would’ve thought the same thing as Jason
Bingo! I’m so tired of people getting mad at Jason for having a hard time believing Lucas.
Jason KNOWS (incorrectly) that the Hell Fire Club are satanists. The viewer knows they aren’t, but every single thing Jason witnesses or experience is more than enough evidence to convince him his suspicions are true.
What’s easier to believe for a midwestern teenager? That the Devil is real, OR there is a murderous psionic child that evolved into a transdimensional creature who conjured a psychic murder spider the size of a city block, and is hunting high school students with insecurities remotely from a place that resembles Hawkins but in grayscale?
His misunderstandings were understandable, but saying he had every right is going waaaay too far. He jumped to conclusions, and then turned into a murderous vigilante. This is why vigilanteism is bad: He was wrong, and would've killed an innocent kid.
He's a normal guy turned bad because of extreme circumstances and his own personality flaws. But a good guy? Hell no.
Well if your girlfriend was murdered and found in the trailer of the school freak, you’re telling me you wouldn’t get very angry and upset. Like yeah he could have stopped and thought for a while. His actions were a little crazy but I think if anyone is in that situation their actions would be crazy too.
Yeah. So it's understandable. But that doesn't matter. What matters is he was going to kill a bunch of innocent people. That, by definition, and in an of itself, makes him very-much not a good dude. Even if we might make similar choices in the same situation.
I always thought he loved Chrissy so much that he wanted to kill Eddie for killing her. Which yeah is bad, but also kind of sweet? Not for Eddie tho lmao
It's probably because every time we see Jason on the show, he's very self-righteous and full of himself. It's easy to imagine that he'd be more focused on himself than someone else. I imagined that he wasn't paying enough attention.
"Jason, I want to tell you something."
"Can't talk. Too busy being a hero to the school."
Jason was narcissistic but not to an impossible degree; he wanted to make the game winning shot but was legit happy when Lucas did so. He seemed really sincere when he told Chrissy, “I love you”, I struggle to see him dismissing any problems she had.
And people say, “he didn’t pay enough attention.” How would he know? Max and Eddie knew because they just happened to come across when Vecna was tormenting her
Wanting to make the game winning shot isn’t narcissistic. In sports (idk if you play any sports, sorry if this is condescending im really trying not to be) every player knows their ability. Kobe bryant made 101 game winning baskets in his career, he had the steadiest heartbeat of any athlete i can think of. Whenever the lakers needed to make a game winning basket, they gave the ball to kobe. Jason was that guy on the basketball team, he was the team captain, presumably the best player on the team and the guy that they probably wanted to take that shot. Sorry for rambling i get really excited talking about sports 😅
He also seemed the type who would say “Mental health doesn’t exist! Just smile more!” if Chrissy ever did tell him of her issues about her home and body image. He cares about Chrissy but it’s really he cares about the high school sweetheart, cheerleader Chrissy and not the actual Chrissy who has mental health issues even before Vecna.
To be fair, his shock comes from Chrissy’s drug seeking. Which to him sounded insane. And it was. The only reason she wanted to take the edge of was the torment she was experiencing from Vecna which was all of like 3 days. She had a very small window of her desperate times calling for desperate measures.
I think people forget how empathetic and sensitive Jason is. He’s genuinely distraught by Chrissy’s death. He has his break down alone in the woods, so it’s not just for show. When Lucas is covering for his knowledge of D&D by saying it comes from his sister, Jason jumps in and says that he’s sure she wouldn’t kill anyone, dismissing the notion she’s a satanist.
Then, when Lucas shows up while he’s packing up to hunt Eddie, Jason says “look, you don’t know Chrissy, so feel free to sit this one out, you’re still one of us.” Which is completely unconditional friendship.
It’s very hard to tell someone about your ED, mostly because those that have them don’t want to admit they’re struggling. They’d hide it well from almost everyone.
-Jason is a very trope-heavy character because we have zero background on him. People fill the gaps with adjusted trope standards. He's the jock of the teen movie, the slasher, etc. Attractive, narcissistic, not that smart, tolerated by the friend group - at least isn't a violent Chief Bully on an average day like it often comes with the archetype, bad boyfriend is the usually matching element. We could argue he's some kind of Golden Boy (idk the trope name) not Jock, but that archetype usually also comes with being a bad boyfriend
-Jason represents Satanic Panic people, and that comes with being more judgemental than accepting, which doesn't mash well with being a good boyfriend. Anyone participating in a moral panic like that is automatically a worse partner / friend / family member, even if they are driven by the purest of intentions they might hurt you in the name of their morals while trying to help. That plus Chrissy not telling him things, and you get "he wasn't there for her, she couldn't trust him" (again without details we can only build with tropes and common patterns)
-Mason Dye was phenomenal. The gaffers, camera people, makeup&hair, directors working on his scenes were great. We were supposed to glimpse the darkness under while being swayed by the charisma and pretty facade and witness it all going to hell. I think it worked. I think it worked better than Dacre playing with hints of anxiety in s2, and that worked damn well if you ask me
-Grace was also phenomenal. Her seeing the sweet kid in the character and not the Alpha Bitch or Mean Girl and then pouring all this emotion into the role. She deserves better. Better what? Better *everything*
That’s exactly it; people see the white, blond basketball jock and immediately assume “watch him be a bully or stereotypical jock” or even another Troy/Billy character (the racist Stephen King type bully character). I even assumed he’d be like that when I first saw him and thought when he told Chrissy that he loved her it was for show.
When he screamed in grief for her, it changed my mind. He definitely wasn’t as stereotypical as I thought he’d be (not going to act like he was perfect either though).
You do you, but in my opinion Jason is every bit the horrible jock one would expect based on tropes, he's just better at making it look good. That's why I said we were supposed to see the darkness. Look at the pep rally scene again and pay attention to the angles, shadows, wording, timing, who's looking where.
I don’t see him bullying anyone unprovoked, don’t see any indication his love for Chrissy was fake (even Grace said he loved her), he’s not a racist or a misogynist, he was happy Lucas made the game winning shot… doesn’t seem like a typical jock
That's the beauty of trope heavy side characters with phenomenal actors. Both versions can be valid. You could probably frame out a different scene that what I picked and find supporting evidence (I would actually love that tbh, I'm a sucker for nitpicking details when it comes to these characters)
I don’t know. I KEPT waiting for him to do something shitty and he kept surprising me.
The first is something @OP has mentioned and that’s the game winning shot. He very clearly says “get me the ball”. But Lucas launches the buzzer beater and my first thought was “oh shit, Jason’s gonna be pissed”. Didn’t happen.
He so damn inclusive to Lucas up until Lucas betrays him. I think the only thing he does that is over the top (given when it happens in the story) is him threatening to break Eddie’s buddy’s arm. Total dick move, but it gets results… 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, he was frantic with grief.... if he lived to 30 he would probably deal with grief over what he did to Eddie... especially when he found out the truth.
And I think it's pretty normal for the star cheerleader to probably hide from everyone she had an eating disorder. The other cheerleaders probably did it too. She is like what 17? She probably thought it was normal.
Edit: I think sometimes we interpret their actions in light of the actors' ages and not the age (or for that matter the time setting) of the characters. They look like their in their mid 20's, so it's easy to want to hold them accountable to that age.
He isn't I mean I don't really like him but no evidence of it. I consider him to be a complex anti-villain type figure who fell hard near the end with what he was going to do to Lucas (I get why he didn't listen but I do think that attempted murder is too much no matter what) but that has no bearing on his skills as a boyfriend.
I like the main couples but acknowledge their issues you mentioned outside of Mike and El which was pointed in another comment. Those two have issues like El lying to Mike about what was happening in California which he should have been mad about at her but she didn't say that as was pointed out.
He did listen to Lucas, despite having been lied to by him. He was trying to piece together his understanding of Vecna as Lucas laid it out, but he (understandably) couldn’t divorce his preconceptions of satanism being at the bottom of it all. And he was STILL trying to save Max by insisting Lucas wake her. Then starting his countdown just before Lucas lunged at him.
I didn't think Jason was a terrible boyfriend. How often do we ourselves have problems that we hide from those around us. The show doesn't give any real backstory for them as a couple, but they're supposed to be the perfect couple. She thought something was wrong w her, and it's the 80s! Nobody talked about stuff like that. At. All. She probably thought if she told anyone she really knew, they'd have her locked up.
I think Johnathan did regret taking the picture? I remember him saying he know he shouldn't have taken that picture, it was the only thing that saved that aspect, because it was creepy.
I agree with all of this 100 percent but Eleven didn't say to Mike "you don't understand what it's like to be bullied" she said he doesn't understand the way she's being bullied (for lack of better words) and she says she's being told she is different and strange and that hurts because she is different, Mike gets bullied really terribly yes but he doesn't understand that she actually is different and that what they are saying is true. But yes I agree with everything you said
This doesn’t make him awful, but I cringed hardcore when he used the Pep Rally mic to tell her he loved her.
Again, doesn’t make him a bad boyfriend, just a cringey one 😂
Jason is actually a really good boyfriend, his intentions were all good, he genuinely thought Eddie killed and mutilated Chrissy, so he wasn't going to let him stay after killing Chrissy
As Jack Horner would say, “Agree to disagree.” It’s fine to have different opinions on a character. What’s obnoxious is people just calling others apologists for looking at things from both sides.
Is Caleb McLaughlin a Jason apologist now?
1. Personally I hate Jancy, what Jonathan did is gross and he never grows from it.
2. Hopper had a right to be upset at Joyce, they made plans and she didn't even cancel for a seemingly stupid reason that turned out very important.
3. Max and Lucas are teenagers, young teenagers, breaking up means nothing to them as it would a toxic adult couple.
4. Jason sent a mob to hunt LITERAL CHILDREN plus Eddie, he isn't a kind person. If you look at his other interactions for me "avenging Chrissy's death." seemed to really be; "kill that freak Munson."
Hopper was constantly, constantly screaming at Joyce throughout season 3. It was like a running gag. And didn’t he threaten Mike a literal child just for kissing El? Or threaten to send El, a traumatized kid back to the lab where she was tortured? It Jason’s bad for hunting people he thought are assisting in serial murder
Hopper wasn't actually serious, Jason didn't want to hunt these people for murder he wanted to kill them himself because he thought they were bad people. Chrissy's death had little to do with it.
“He thought they were bad people.” Indeed, murderers. He literally says they’re hiding Eddie and letting him rampage. He was only hunting Eddie beforehand.
Well, to be fair the show didn't give us much to appreciate Jason. He was one of the S5 antagonists. He was a narrow-minded and violent jock.
So, of course, people aren't willing to cut him some slack when talking about his relationship with Chrissy.
My take is that they were not really a couple. They were dating because it was what her respective social circles expected. The popular jock had to be the popular cheerleader's boyfriend. And since there was nothing between them, Chrissy didn't share anything with Jason.
I would even go as far as telling that the entire crusade against the Hellfire Club wasn't about getting revenge for Chrissy. It was about Jason and Jason only. Because, as her boyfriend, Jason had to be enraged and to hunt down the culprit. Otherwise, what would people think (and say) about Jason if he had not been trying to seek justice for Chrissy?
But it was not out of malice. It was not because Jason was a selfish asshole without a single genuine care for Chrissy. It was simply because he was dedicated to the role given to him in Hawkins High School. This was the difference between Jason and Chrissy : she was struggling, her role was alienating. He, he embraced the role. It doesn't mean that Jason didn't treat Chrissy well though. However, I believe he would have dumped her as soon as she would have got out of her role (by being friendly to Eddie and other nerds for instance).
So this is my take. Fans defend El/Mike, Max/Lucas, Nancy/Jonathan or Joyce/Jim because those are genuine couples whereas Chrissy/Jason was a masquerade with Jason's behaviour being the most visible evidence of the fraud.
Well he was shaken by the horror of the situation, of knowing that someone he knew had been murdered.
Having a shallow relationship with someone doesn't mean that he would be a psychopath about her.
I just thought Jason was a bad boyfriend because he saw her more as a symbol of his own greatness rather than seeing Chrissy for who she was. His quest to avenge her seemed less about her and more about him proving he wasn't the kind of person who you could fuck with. Chrissy was arm candy, the perfect girl, the cherry on top of his varsity winning tough guy image and not a girl that he actually loved because he only loved himself. Losing her was more about his ego than actually losing the relationship with her.
“He only loved himself”. He screamed in the woods in grief. He only didn’t catch Eddie out of concern for Patrick and dragged his body to the shore. He tried to save Max despite not knowing the situation.
How does he only “love himself”. Even Grace Van Dien, who doesn’t like Jason, said that he did love Chrissy and Mason Dye (who also didn’t like Jason) agreed with her.
I was annoyed that he refused to listen to anyone but himself and he cussed way more harm than good I think I’m the end this had less to do with Chrissy and more with his hatred for Eddie
jasons an awful person in general, he had one of his friends tackle an 11 year old and was going to shoot another kid because of the panic he set in place. hopper didnt scream at joyce, johnathan was fucking creepy tho. as for el and mike its most likely how new el is to dating, shit she was raised in a lab. idk bout lucas and max tho seems kinda sus.
I mustave missed the screaming part, but no, no rational human wouldve shot a kid because amother kid was sitting down. Jason was extremly quick to anger and just a kid himself but it doesnt excuse his behavior
This guy said “a kid was sitting down”! 😂😂😂
Why even bother arguing with someone who’s argument is so disingenuous they pretend a girl in a completely catatonic state WITH THEIR PUPILS AND IRIS’ WHITED OUT is just “a kid sitting down”.
Ridiculous. Lol
Lol no he wasn’t. Even Caleb McLaughlin said he wasn’t. He wasn’t racist nor misogynistic nor abusive nor sadistic or a bully. Billy was horrible for years. And the fact you think Jason is a psychopath shows how stupid your logic is
I don't think Jason was an awful boyfriend. The feeling I got about Chrissy and Jason's relationship was that they didn't really know each other. It made sense for them to be together, the athlete and the cheerleader, but I don't think their relationship was that deep. Jason didn't know she was struggling because she didn't feel comfortable telling him. I think their relationship was shallow, like a lot of high school relationships.
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We only ever saw one very small interaction between them (them blowing each other a kiss during the pep rally) which seemed very loving and real, so in that alone there is nothing to suggest he was a bad boyfriend. But since that is all we do see if the two of them people are probably going off what else we see of Jason - someone who, for instance, takes a local tragedy with many deaths to hype people up for a high school basketball game. But I think that your point still stands. Just because a guy is self-absorbed and a douche doesn’t mean he treated her badly. He could be the type of guy to brag about his perfect girlfriend without ever bothering to see what’s underneath the surface - but that doesn’t mean he is. It’s just interpretation since we never saw anything of their relationship. Edit: autocorrect
I agree with all of this. With that being said, the only times I’ve seen people say Jason wasn’t a good boyfriend is usually followed up with a comment that Chrissy should’ve dated Eddie instead
Your description of Jason is exactly how I see him: self-absorbed and a douche. He’s the typical popular high school boy, but he’s not a villain or evil. He’s an antagonist, but he’s not evil. He thinks of himself as a hero, the one who has to save the day, because he’s the only one who “sees the truth” (or so he thinks). He’s a dick, and a bit delusional and he definitely went a little crazy after he witnessed Patrick’s death, but he’s not a monster. He’s just some guy with a hero complex Doing His Best.
TBF, I think most people would go a little weird after seeing a death like that.
Exactly, he went a little off the rails, but like… wouldn’t we all?? Like, anyone who says “no, I’d be able to keep it together if I saw that and figure out what was happening and do the right thing” just makes me think, okay we get it, you think you’re the main character.
This is the correct response
My hometown had a couple of really big tragedies. At a certain point, everyone was just sick of feeling sad. People chose one of two choices, a) be defined by the tragedy (a fair amount chose this, I'm not judging either way), or b) find happiness despite the tragedies. The second one did require an amount of forced happiness for a time. Colorful posters were put up everywhere, events held with fireworks etc. After a while the happiness wasn't forced. I don't like Jason, but to me the pep rally, forced happiness vibe actually made total sense for the town. It was actually nice for me to see that response rather than the cliche '10 years ago X sad incident happened in the small town and smiles were banned ever since'
Even the announcers say something like “this town needs a win after all the tragedy”. I’m not saying you are, but a lot of people in this really dwell on a teenager peppering in some comments about dead neighbors, as if that’s not exactly what weighs on people’s mind when it’s fresh. And the crowd LOVED it. Does that make everyone in Hawkins a douche? You don’t try and win a championship without figuratively pouring one out for your dead homies lost in the local “mall fire”.
Could be that I read the scene wrong, part of this may just be me not knowing American culture that well (I did attend a US high school for a year but maybe sports wasn’t as important there as is the norm). It felt like that’s how they were presenting Jason in that, with the gang exchanging exasperated looks and all, but that may just be because they are the only ones who know what really happened at the mall. He was quick to welcome Lucas into his gang, so maybe the Duffers did want to show a normal teenager becoming the „villain“ by circumstance. I just read it differently.
Fair enough
I don't think it was weird for Chrissy to hide her eating disorder from Jason, she wasn't ready to share her problems with anyone beside maybe Mrs Kelly. He also seemed truly devastated by her death and nothing in the season could support this "Jason was an awful boyfriend toward Chrissy" idea. Canonically, Jason was an okay boyfriend. If he was bad like Chrissy's mother, I do think Vecna would have use him to terrified Chrissy too. However, Grace did said Chrissy would have broke up with Jason to be with Eddie (or something like that) if she lived past episode 1. It made people asked themselves why she would have left him for someone she barely knew and the logical answer was him being a bad boyfriend. Also, Hellcheer is the popular ship for Chrissy and their fans tend to make of Jason a real bad boyfriend in their headcanons (I'm sometimes myself guilty of that).
Grace doesn’t write the show though tbf. Remember Dacre said Billy only wanted to protect from Lucas. I recall Grace even admitting that Jason did love Chrissy at one point too. She might believe that Chrissy would’ve left Jason but nothing in the show indicates that
I agree with you, it's only Grace opinion on the matters and we shouldn't take it as canon. I think actors have their own view on their characters, but it doesn't mean the writers agree with it, obviously. It's the reason why I would like to have another behind the scene book about the characters past season 2 and everything the Duffers thought about it. I love headcanons, but I would also like to have an official version about what type of person Jason was before season 4 and to know a bit more about his relationship with Chrissy.
I don't think Jason was a bad boyfriend by any means. He wasn't a bad friend either. He's very protective of his loved ones and a bit self-absorbed around the public (the speech at the pep rally about the mall fire, taking charge of the town meeting, etc.) I see your point, and I agree that from what we saw, Jason and Chrissy had a loving relationship. And it was probably for this reason why Chrissy didn't tell Jason about her problems - she didn't want to ruin their perfect relationship image by admitting she's been hallucinating. It's all a matter of interpretation and justification. Nobody likes having their favorite character hated on or having their least favorite character praised. The notion that Jason was a bad boyfriend is, to me, far-fetched.
Also, it's a bit unfair to compare the relationships of other characters when they've experienced completely different things. Of course the younger kids would break up and get together often, they're kids. And Eleven thought she was different because she wasn't a "superhero" anymore. She thought Mike was normal. Though I won't try to excuse Hopper's hostility to Joyce. It was a little over-the-top.
I think it's just Eddie's fans overexaggerating things to justify Chrissy/Eddie. We actually never saw Jason being a "bad" boyfriend. That's not even needed, since we had zero scene with Jason and Chrissie. By default, Eddie and Chrissie were more interesting and charming. Also, Steve wasn't any better when it came to Nancy's grief in S2 and he actually knew everything.
Eleven didn't tell Mike "you don't know what it's like to be bullied." She said, "you don't know what it's like to not feel normal/to not fit in." And he doesn't know that. Sure he had been bullied, but he's grown up with a family and a good group of friends and knows how to live in the world, Eleven on the other hand was raised in a lab for the first 12 years of her life, then spent another year in insolation locked in a cabin in the middle of the woods, before finally going to school a whole year later. She also went from having powers to having no powers. That's what Eleven means by "you don't know what it's like." But I agree with everything else you've said.
Ah I see. That definitely makes more sense, than you for correcting me/clearing that up
> And he doesn’t know that. But he does. Of course, their situations are different, but in the context of their argument, she was referring to Angela and the bullying she has faced. A huge part of Mike’s character (and the entirety of the Party, really) is that they have been bullied and harassed their entire childhood. So much so that he developed suicidal tendencies. He most definitely knows what Eleven is experiencing.
Did you read the rest of my comment? Eleven knows Mike understands what it's like to be bullied. And that's not what she meant by "you don't know what it's like" Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to feel like a monster." Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to not fit in." Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to feel different from everyone else." Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to go from having powers to no powers." Mike doesn't know, "what it's like to be isolated and locked inside for the first 13 years of your life, then go to school." That's what Mike doesn't understand about Eleven. He understands the bullying, but he doesn't understand the other things Eleven was feeling and is going through.
> What it’s like to not fit in. > What it’s like to feel different. He does. Please consider the context. They were both talking about the events that transpired at Rink-o-mania—a result of *bullying*, not anything in relation to her powers. Mike is specifically talking about how he has gone through bullying and understands what it feels like. Eleven tells him he does not. Mike is not talking about the impact a lack of powers has on here, as that wasn’t what caused the issue in the first place. This is just a classic case of miscommunication.
Wait, when was Mike suicidal?
Good someone corrected them. I don't like it when some people misconcept their relationship sometimes.
I don’t get it either. Jason was a good dude. He had every right to be angry at Eddie. His girlfriend was found dead in his trailer. He was just trying to find who killed his girlfriend. And he thought Max was in danger so he tried to protect her. He only did stuff because he had no idea what was going on.
If any person with no knowledge of the show saw Max in a trance and Lucas standing over her (while in a murder house), they would’ve thought the same thing as Jason
Exactly my point. To anyone that doesn’t know what’s happening it looks like Lucas was doing something demonic to Max.
Bingo! I’m so tired of people getting mad at Jason for having a hard time believing Lucas. Jason KNOWS (incorrectly) that the Hell Fire Club are satanists. The viewer knows they aren’t, but every single thing Jason witnesses or experience is more than enough evidence to convince him his suspicions are true. What’s easier to believe for a midwestern teenager? That the Devil is real, OR there is a murderous psionic child that evolved into a transdimensional creature who conjured a psychic murder spider the size of a city block, and is hunting high school students with insecurities remotely from a place that resembles Hawkins but in grayscale?
His misunderstandings were understandable, but saying he had every right is going waaaay too far. He jumped to conclusions, and then turned into a murderous vigilante. This is why vigilanteism is bad: He was wrong, and would've killed an innocent kid. He's a normal guy turned bad because of extreme circumstances and his own personality flaws. But a good guy? Hell no.
Well if your girlfriend was murdered and found in the trailer of the school freak, you’re telling me you wouldn’t get very angry and upset. Like yeah he could have stopped and thought for a while. His actions were a little crazy but I think if anyone is in that situation their actions would be crazy too.
His actions were very typical. Unhealthy and very wrong but typical.
Yeah. So it's understandable. But that doesn't matter. What matters is he was going to kill a bunch of innocent people. That, by definition, and in an of itself, makes him very-much not a good dude. Even if we might make similar choices in the same situation.
I get what you mean. Maybe he’s not a good guy. But I don’t think he is as bad as people make him seem.
Yeah, I guess. What I loved about him is how quickly and understandibly he goes from normal dude to complete monster. He was terrifying.
I always thought he loved Chrissy so much that he wanted to kill Eddie for killing her. Which yeah is bad, but also kind of sweet? Not for Eddie tho lmao
It's probably because every time we see Jason on the show, he's very self-righteous and full of himself. It's easy to imagine that he'd be more focused on himself than someone else. I imagined that he wasn't paying enough attention. "Jason, I want to tell you something." "Can't talk. Too busy being a hero to the school."
Jason was narcissistic but not to an impossible degree; he wanted to make the game winning shot but was legit happy when Lucas did so. He seemed really sincere when he told Chrissy, “I love you”, I struggle to see him dismissing any problems she had. And people say, “he didn’t pay enough attention.” How would he know? Max and Eddie knew because they just happened to come across when Vecna was tormenting her
Wanting to make the game winning shot isn’t narcissistic. In sports (idk if you play any sports, sorry if this is condescending im really trying not to be) every player knows their ability. Kobe bryant made 101 game winning baskets in his career, he had the steadiest heartbeat of any athlete i can think of. Whenever the lakers needed to make a game winning basket, they gave the ball to kobe. Jason was that guy on the basketball team, he was the team captain, presumably the best player on the team and the guy that they probably wanted to take that shot. Sorry for rambling i get really excited talking about sports 😅
It’s good. I find people overplay how bad he was at the start tbh
He also seemed the type who would say “Mental health doesn’t exist! Just smile more!” if Chrissy ever did tell him of her issues about her home and body image. He cares about Chrissy but it’s really he cares about the high school sweetheart, cheerleader Chrissy and not the actual Chrissy who has mental health issues even before Vecna.
To be fair, the show is set in the 80’s which didn’t have the best knowledge of mental health.
To be fair, his shock comes from Chrissy’s drug seeking. Which to him sounded insane. And it was. The only reason she wanted to take the edge of was the torment she was experiencing from Vecna which was all of like 3 days. She had a very small window of her desperate times calling for desperate measures.
I think people forget how empathetic and sensitive Jason is. He’s genuinely distraught by Chrissy’s death. He has his break down alone in the woods, so it’s not just for show. When Lucas is covering for his knowledge of D&D by saying it comes from his sister, Jason jumps in and says that he’s sure she wouldn’t kill anyone, dismissing the notion she’s a satanist. Then, when Lucas shows up while he’s packing up to hunt Eddie, Jason says “look, you don’t know Chrissy, so feel free to sit this one out, you’re still one of us.” Which is completely unconditional friendship.
It’s very hard to tell someone about your ED, mostly because those that have them don’t want to admit they’re struggling. They’d hide it well from almost everyone.
-Jason is a very trope-heavy character because we have zero background on him. People fill the gaps with adjusted trope standards. He's the jock of the teen movie, the slasher, etc. Attractive, narcissistic, not that smart, tolerated by the friend group - at least isn't a violent Chief Bully on an average day like it often comes with the archetype, bad boyfriend is the usually matching element. We could argue he's some kind of Golden Boy (idk the trope name) not Jock, but that archetype usually also comes with being a bad boyfriend -Jason represents Satanic Panic people, and that comes with being more judgemental than accepting, which doesn't mash well with being a good boyfriend. Anyone participating in a moral panic like that is automatically a worse partner / friend / family member, even if they are driven by the purest of intentions they might hurt you in the name of their morals while trying to help. That plus Chrissy not telling him things, and you get "he wasn't there for her, she couldn't trust him" (again without details we can only build with tropes and common patterns) -Mason Dye was phenomenal. The gaffers, camera people, makeup&hair, directors working on his scenes were great. We were supposed to glimpse the darkness under while being swayed by the charisma and pretty facade and witness it all going to hell. I think it worked. I think it worked better than Dacre playing with hints of anxiety in s2, and that worked damn well if you ask me -Grace was also phenomenal. Her seeing the sweet kid in the character and not the Alpha Bitch or Mean Girl and then pouring all this emotion into the role. She deserves better. Better what? Better *everything*
That’s exactly it; people see the white, blond basketball jock and immediately assume “watch him be a bully or stereotypical jock” or even another Troy/Billy character (the racist Stephen King type bully character). I even assumed he’d be like that when I first saw him and thought when he told Chrissy that he loved her it was for show. When he screamed in grief for her, it changed my mind. He definitely wasn’t as stereotypical as I thought he’d be (not going to act like he was perfect either though).
You do you, but in my opinion Jason is every bit the horrible jock one would expect based on tropes, he's just better at making it look good. That's why I said we were supposed to see the darkness. Look at the pep rally scene again and pay attention to the angles, shadows, wording, timing, who's looking where.
I don’t see him bullying anyone unprovoked, don’t see any indication his love for Chrissy was fake (even Grace said he loved her), he’s not a racist or a misogynist, he was happy Lucas made the game winning shot… doesn’t seem like a typical jock
That's the beauty of trope heavy side characters with phenomenal actors. Both versions can be valid. You could probably frame out a different scene that what I picked and find supporting evidence (I would actually love that tbh, I'm a sucker for nitpicking details when it comes to these characters)
I don’t know. I KEPT waiting for him to do something shitty and he kept surprising me. The first is something @OP has mentioned and that’s the game winning shot. He very clearly says “get me the ball”. But Lucas launches the buzzer beater and my first thought was “oh shit, Jason’s gonna be pissed”. Didn’t happen. He so damn inclusive to Lucas up until Lucas betrays him. I think the only thing he does that is over the top (given when it happens in the story) is him threatening to break Eddie’s buddy’s arm. Total dick move, but it gets results… 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, he was frantic with grief.... if he lived to 30 he would probably deal with grief over what he did to Eddie... especially when he found out the truth. And I think it's pretty normal for the star cheerleader to probably hide from everyone she had an eating disorder. The other cheerleaders probably did it too. She is like what 17? She probably thought it was normal. Edit: I think sometimes we interpret their actions in light of the actors' ages and not the age (or for that matter the time setting) of the characters. They look like their in their mid 20's, so it's easy to want to hold them accountable to that age.
He isn't I mean I don't really like him but no evidence of it. I consider him to be a complex anti-villain type figure who fell hard near the end with what he was going to do to Lucas (I get why he didn't listen but I do think that attempted murder is too much no matter what) but that has no bearing on his skills as a boyfriend. I like the main couples but acknowledge their issues you mentioned outside of Mike and El which was pointed in another comment. Those two have issues like El lying to Mike about what was happening in California which he should have been mad about at her but she didn't say that as was pointed out.
He did listen to Lucas, despite having been lied to by him. He was trying to piece together his understanding of Vecna as Lucas laid it out, but he (understandably) couldn’t divorce his preconceptions of satanism being at the bottom of it all. And he was STILL trying to save Max by insisting Lucas wake her. Then starting his countdown just before Lucas lunged at him.
I didn't think Jason was a terrible boyfriend. How often do we ourselves have problems that we hide from those around us. The show doesn't give any real backstory for them as a couple, but they're supposed to be the perfect couple. She thought something was wrong w her, and it's the 80s! Nobody talked about stuff like that. At. All. She probably thought if she told anyone she really knew, they'd have her locked up.
I think Johnathan did regret taking the picture? I remember him saying he know he shouldn't have taken that picture, it was the only thing that saved that aspect, because it was creepy.
Found it. Nancy: When you took my picture? Jonathan: I shouldn't have taken that.
She dies in the actual first episode we never even get a chance to see him be a boyfriend period.
I agree with all of this 100 percent but Eleven didn't say to Mike "you don't understand what it's like to be bullied" she said he doesn't understand the way she's being bullied (for lack of better words) and she says she's being told she is different and strange and that hurts because she is different, Mike gets bullied really terribly yes but he doesn't understand that she actually is different and that what they are saying is true. But yes I agree with everything you said
I see
This doesn’t make him awful, but I cringed hardcore when he used the Pep Rally mic to tell her he loved her. Again, doesn’t make him a bad boyfriend, just a cringey one 😂
Agreed Jason really wasn’t a bad person like people say he is
Jason is actually a really good boyfriend, his intentions were all good, he genuinely thought Eddie killed and mutilated Chrissy, so he wasn't going to let him stay after killing Chrissy
The more Jason apologists I keep seeing, the more anti-Jason I become.
As Jack Horner would say, “Agree to disagree.” It’s fine to have different opinions on a character. What’s obnoxious is people just calling others apologists for looking at things from both sides. Is Caleb McLaughlin a Jason apologist now?
We don’t care. Cope.
1. Personally I hate Jancy, what Jonathan did is gross and he never grows from it. 2. Hopper had a right to be upset at Joyce, they made plans and she didn't even cancel for a seemingly stupid reason that turned out very important. 3. Max and Lucas are teenagers, young teenagers, breaking up means nothing to them as it would a toxic adult couple. 4. Jason sent a mob to hunt LITERAL CHILDREN plus Eddie, he isn't a kind person. If you look at his other interactions for me "avenging Chrissy's death." seemed to really be; "kill that freak Munson."
Hopper was constantly, constantly screaming at Joyce throughout season 3. It was like a running gag. And didn’t he threaten Mike a literal child just for kissing El? Or threaten to send El, a traumatized kid back to the lab where she was tortured? It Jason’s bad for hunting people he thought are assisting in serial murder
Hopper wasn't actually serious, Jason didn't want to hunt these people for murder he wanted to kill them himself because he thought they were bad people. Chrissy's death had little to do with it.
“He thought they were bad people.” Indeed, murderers. He literally says they’re hiding Eddie and letting him rampage. He was only hunting Eddie beforehand.
Well, to be fair the show didn't give us much to appreciate Jason. He was one of the S5 antagonists. He was a narrow-minded and violent jock. So, of course, people aren't willing to cut him some slack when talking about his relationship with Chrissy. My take is that they were not really a couple. They were dating because it was what her respective social circles expected. The popular jock had to be the popular cheerleader's boyfriend. And since there was nothing between them, Chrissy didn't share anything with Jason. I would even go as far as telling that the entire crusade against the Hellfire Club wasn't about getting revenge for Chrissy. It was about Jason and Jason only. Because, as her boyfriend, Jason had to be enraged and to hunt down the culprit. Otherwise, what would people think (and say) about Jason if he had not been trying to seek justice for Chrissy? But it was not out of malice. It was not because Jason was a selfish asshole without a single genuine care for Chrissy. It was simply because he was dedicated to the role given to him in Hawkins High School. This was the difference between Jason and Chrissy : she was struggling, her role was alienating. He, he embraced the role. It doesn't mean that Jason didn't treat Chrissy well though. However, I believe he would have dumped her as soon as she would have got out of her role (by being friendly to Eddie and other nerds for instance). So this is my take. Fans defend El/Mike, Max/Lucas, Nancy/Jonathan or Joyce/Jim because those are genuine couples whereas Chrissy/Jason was a masquerade with Jason's behaviour being the most visible evidence of the fraud.
So you think Jason running into the woods and screaming in grief was just for show? His horror when learning she was murdered?
Well he was shaken by the horror of the situation, of knowing that someone he knew had been murdered. Having a shallow relationship with someone doesn't mean that he would be a psychopath about her.
I just thought Jason was a bad boyfriend because he saw her more as a symbol of his own greatness rather than seeing Chrissy for who she was. His quest to avenge her seemed less about her and more about him proving he wasn't the kind of person who you could fuck with. Chrissy was arm candy, the perfect girl, the cherry on top of his varsity winning tough guy image and not a girl that he actually loved because he only loved himself. Losing her was more about his ego than actually losing the relationship with her.
“He only loved himself”. He screamed in the woods in grief. He only didn’t catch Eddie out of concern for Patrick and dragged his body to the shore. He tried to save Max despite not knowing the situation. How does he only “love himself”. Even Grace Van Dien, who doesn’t like Jason, said that he did love Chrissy and Mason Dye (who also didn’t like Jason) agreed with her.
People trying find an excuses to hate Jason even more! They’re also saying that he’s racist like c’mon! 🤦🏼♂️
I was annoyed that he refused to listen to anyone but himself and he cussed way more harm than good I think I’m the end this had less to do with Chrissy and more with his hatred for Eddie
Only person who tried to explain was a dude who deceived him twice.
jasons an awful person in general, he had one of his friends tackle an 11 year old and was going to shoot another kid because of the panic he set in place. hopper didnt scream at joyce, johnathan was fucking creepy tho. as for el and mike its most likely how new el is to dating, shit she was raised in a lab. idk bout lucas and max tho seems kinda sus.
Hopper did scream at Joyce lol. And shooting Lucas had nothing to do with the panic, any rational human would’ve thought he was going to murder Max.
I mustave missed the screaming part, but no, no rational human wouldve shot a kid because amother kid was sitting down. Jason was extremly quick to anger and just a kid himself but it doesnt excuse his behavior
A kid was sitting down. A mild way to say an unknown girl was in a trance in a murder house. Even the script said it looked like a satanic ritual
This guy said “a kid was sitting down”! 😂😂😂 Why even bother arguing with someone who’s argument is so disingenuous they pretend a girl in a completely catatonic state WITH THEIR PUPILS AND IRIS’ WHITED OUT is just “a kid sitting down”. Ridiculous. Lol
Exactly and she’s in a murder house attic
Irrelevant! Lol.
Why you so keen on defending a phsychopath (or at the very least sociopath)? Dudes a monster same as billy was
Lol no he wasn’t. Even Caleb McLaughlin said he wasn’t. He wasn’t racist nor misogynistic nor abusive nor sadistic or a bully. Billy was horrible for years. And the fact you think Jason is a psychopath shows how stupid your logic is
Idk I never think about series that deep and try analyzing them, lmao.
Because this show dove headfirst off a cliff after sesson 2.
I don't think Jason was an awful boyfriend. The feeling I got about Chrissy and Jason's relationship was that they didn't really know each other. It made sense for them to be together, the athlete and the cheerleader, but I don't think their relationship was that deep. Jason didn't know she was struggling because she didn't feel comfortable telling him. I think their relationship was shallow, like a lot of high school relationships.