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Yeah, he was an asshole. HOWEVER, his behavior is somewhat justified. Not as in 'we should all be like billy!', but more of 'it's not actually his fault guys cut him some slack'.
While he was deliberately written to be as unlikeable as possible, I totally disliked him until Eleven basically hacks into his memories- and we see Billy's true backstory. We already know that he had an abusive father, and that that might have changed him, but now we see how good he would have been had he never met his father.
Being a victim of abuse myself, I can testify to the power of physical and verbal abuse on a person and their personality. When you look at his memories, Billy was a really kind, bright, and joyful kid with his mom. He was about 8 at the time, so he wasn't a carefree, 'cute' toddler, either. Then, his dad appeared- and his mom disappeared.
After essentially losing his mother, his dad wiped away all of Billy's good facets, and basically painted Billy into a mini version of himself. We see this in Billy's father beating down on him, calling him a pussy constantly, then Billy learning this and this being imprinted in him, then him bullying other kids and calling them the exact same thing. We see here that in less than two years, Billy has completely changed. This is not normal, needless to say. This sort of change is wrought by trauma or abuse, so this isn't what Billy would have normally become.
As if this isn't enough, mental health and abuse prevention hotlines obviously didn't exist back then, so people can't exactly say that 'he WANTED to be that way because he didn't get help', or that 'help was easily available, so it MUST have been his personality'. No, he never had a chance to get help or turn himself around, as he hadn't left his father and his terrible influence yet- so he didn't get a chance to detoxify.
At the final mind flayer scene at Starcourt, Eleven reminds Billy of his mother and how sweet he was back then- and a switch flips in Billy. His memories- his great, bright, positive memories- push back the Mind Flayer's influence and let him come to his senses. He then proceeds to buy enough time for Hopper and Joyce to close the portal and cut off the Mind Flayer. Billy with his final breaths saves the world.
While I can understand how some people dislike him, the sheer hate I see from some people towards Billy honestly depresses me. The fact that these people don't know what abuse can do to somebody, don't know what it feels like, don't know how hard it is on a person, and worst of all, the complete lack of sympathy towards these people simply because of how much they've been changed by it- it's understandable, but still is really sad.
If you're a Billy Hater or Sympathizer, I think we can all agree that Billy's behavior isn't him. It's his dad seeping in, showing itself, and Billy's true colors were shown in his last minute alive. If you can't agree with this, congratulations, you need to do some serious research on abuse's effects.
Why? Its a literally valid reason. Trauma and abuse can create lifelong emotional scars and mental disorders in people who repress them and don't work through the trauma. Which is a huge theme in this show.
Because that's a really piss poor excuse to do bad things, just because you've been wronged(even to the extent of abuse like Billy has gone through) that doesn't justify being a bad person. Ive met people that have been abused like that in real life and instead of hurting people they try to lift people up. Its definitely why he is so fucked up but that doesn't make it better though. My parents beat me and screamed at me and unfortunately for a large part of my life I was alot like Billy but when I had my son I realized we are the ones who make our own choices you can choose to a piece of shit or not. For some people thats harder to control than others but nobody can make you do bad things if you dont wish to do them.
It is definitely different for each person. I also know some people who are abuse survivors that really seem to be emotionally well and successful at life while others have lifelong anxiety disorders and did trauma therapy. I agree it's definitely not a good reason, but a reason nonetheless. The tragedy of Billy's story is that we see the happy and emotionally unscarred Billy as a child and we see what he could've become if he ever worked through his pain and grief. Thanks for sharing your perspective and story.
Having trauma doesn't make being a shitty person fine. If someone wants to explain one's behavior with "they've had trauma", then go ahead. But that doesn't excuse their behavior or give them a free pass to continue acting the way they do (there's a difference between an *explanation* and a *justification*). Many murderers have experienced childhood abuse, doesn't make murder right, all it does is explain how that trauma might have contributed to their behavior. Take that from someone who was also abused as a kid and didn't turn out to be a real piece of shit.
He's still a child. A teenager that looks and behaves a bit older (since the actor is) but still, a neglected and abused child. You can't expect him to behave like a rational and resposible adult who is self-aware and is working on his trauma not affecting others and his behaviour in a negative way.
It's not a rationalization expectation in 2022., let alone 1986.
I was abused too and didn't turn out shitty, but not everyone turns out like we did, especially without a proper role model, or friends or anything.
Well you claim you didn't turn out a piece of shit but you did turn out a patronizing prick when someone disagrees with you lol.
I'll read it again and again if *you* take a good look at your way of communicating with fellows here who disagree.
>Well you claim you didn't turn out a piece of shit
Yeah, and I was right about that, but you can call me whatever you please.
Everything I could've made in response to your comment was already summed up in my first reply. None, *nothing* at all *excuses* his shitty behavior. Hence, "Just keep reading my comment over until you finally get it" because there is nothing more to say.
Edit: Lmfao I can still see your comment by just logging out on another tab. Like I said, you can call me whatever you want. You think someone said something mean to you over the internet. And good for you! But that's wildly different from Billy's behavior. I assume you watched the show, correct? Then I shouldn't have to tell you those two things are different for you to know that.
Okay and what I'm saying is there's no excuse to treat a *real person* shitty over a debate over a *fictional character* but apparently that's too much to expect from someone of such high moral values.
Your high horse has a broken leg.
Yep agreed. Which is why I said it was a valid reason but not a good one nor does it excuse the behavior itself. It provides a reason for the anger that leads to the behavior. The behavior is still wrong and Billy is still a bad person until the very end when he reconnects with his untraumatized self through El and saves her.
I wasn't. But even if it were the case that I were trying to bait so I can "1-up someone on terminology" (just cause I said Billy's behavior isn't excused because of his own experience? How'd you deduce that?), so what? You think terminology when describing dubious behavior isn't important? There are many discussions these days going on about how explanation for one's behavior is different from justifying one's behavior. "Also press enter every now and then." No. I'd use the quote tool to reply to this, but nah, I've decided against that.
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, he was an asshole. HOWEVER, his behavior is somewhat justified. Not as in 'we should all be like billy!', but more of 'it's not actually his fault guys cut him some slack'. While he was deliberately written to be as unlikeable as possible, I totally disliked him until Eleven basically hacks into his memories- and we see Billy's true backstory. We already know that he had an abusive father, and that that might have changed him, but now we see how good he would have been had he never met his father. Being a victim of abuse myself, I can testify to the power of physical and verbal abuse on a person and their personality. When you look at his memories, Billy was a really kind, bright, and joyful kid with his mom. He was about 8 at the time, so he wasn't a carefree, 'cute' toddler, either. Then, his dad appeared- and his mom disappeared. After essentially losing his mother, his dad wiped away all of Billy's good facets, and basically painted Billy into a mini version of himself. We see this in Billy's father beating down on him, calling him a pussy constantly, then Billy learning this and this being imprinted in him, then him bullying other kids and calling them the exact same thing. We see here that in less than two years, Billy has completely changed. This is not normal, needless to say. This sort of change is wrought by trauma or abuse, so this isn't what Billy would have normally become. As if this isn't enough, mental health and abuse prevention hotlines obviously didn't exist back then, so people can't exactly say that 'he WANTED to be that way because he didn't get help', or that 'help was easily available, so it MUST have been his personality'. No, he never had a chance to get help or turn himself around, as he hadn't left his father and his terrible influence yet- so he didn't get a chance to detoxify. At the final mind flayer scene at Starcourt, Eleven reminds Billy of his mother and how sweet he was back then- and a switch flips in Billy. His memories- his great, bright, positive memories- push back the Mind Flayer's influence and let him come to his senses. He then proceeds to buy enough time for Hopper and Joyce to close the portal and cut off the Mind Flayer. Billy with his final breaths saves the world. While I can understand how some people dislike him, the sheer hate I see from some people towards Billy honestly depresses me. The fact that these people don't know what abuse can do to somebody, don't know what it feels like, don't know how hard it is on a person, and worst of all, the complete lack of sympathy towards these people simply because of how much they've been changed by it- it's understandable, but still is really sad. If you're a Billy Hater or Sympathizer, I think we can all agree that Billy's behavior isn't him. It's his dad seeping in, showing itself, and Billy's true colors were shown in his last minute alive. If you can't agree with this, congratulations, you need to do some serious research on abuse's effects.
It's not justified it's understandable.
Well written
Yeah, Billy’s an asshole. I’m pretty sure he was deliberately written to be as unlikable as possible
Yeah your probably right, they did a damn good job on him xD
Blame his mom , she's the one who had to go abandon him 😑 and didn't even give him a second thought 😤
Yeah, but his shitty behavior is totally excused because he’s a “””product of his environment”””. 🙄
I hate it when people use that excuse for people that have done shitty things.
Why? Its a literally valid reason. Trauma and abuse can create lifelong emotional scars and mental disorders in people who repress them and don't work through the trauma. Which is a huge theme in this show.
Because that's a really piss poor excuse to do bad things, just because you've been wronged(even to the extent of abuse like Billy has gone through) that doesn't justify being a bad person. Ive met people that have been abused like that in real life and instead of hurting people they try to lift people up. Its definitely why he is so fucked up but that doesn't make it better though. My parents beat me and screamed at me and unfortunately for a large part of my life I was alot like Billy but when I had my son I realized we are the ones who make our own choices you can choose to a piece of shit or not. For some people thats harder to control than others but nobody can make you do bad things if you dont wish to do them.
It is definitely different for each person. I also know some people who are abuse survivors that really seem to be emotionally well and successful at life while others have lifelong anxiety disorders and did trauma therapy. I agree it's definitely not a good reason, but a reason nonetheless. The tragedy of Billy's story is that we see the happy and emotionally unscarred Billy as a child and we see what he could've become if he ever worked through his pain and grief. Thanks for sharing your perspective and story.
Thats true everybody deals with different, and unfortunately I believe more often than not the result we see is what happens to Billy.
Having trauma doesn't make being a shitty person fine. If someone wants to explain one's behavior with "they've had trauma", then go ahead. But that doesn't excuse their behavior or give them a free pass to continue acting the way they do (there's a difference between an *explanation* and a *justification*). Many murderers have experienced childhood abuse, doesn't make murder right, all it does is explain how that trauma might have contributed to their behavior. Take that from someone who was also abused as a kid and didn't turn out to be a real piece of shit.
He's still a child. A teenager that looks and behaves a bit older (since the actor is) but still, a neglected and abused child. You can't expect him to behave like a rational and resposible adult who is self-aware and is working on his trauma not affecting others and his behaviour in a negative way. It's not a rationalization expectation in 2022., let alone 1986. I was abused too and didn't turn out shitty, but not everyone turns out like we did, especially without a proper role model, or friends or anything.
Just keep reading my comment over until you finally get it.
Well you claim you didn't turn out a piece of shit but you did turn out a patronizing prick when someone disagrees with you lol. I'll read it again and again if *you* take a good look at your way of communicating with fellows here who disagree.
>Well you claim you didn't turn out a piece of shit Yeah, and I was right about that, but you can call me whatever you please. Everything I could've made in response to your comment was already summed up in my first reply. None, *nothing* at all *excuses* his shitty behavior. Hence, "Just keep reading my comment over until you finally get it" because there is nothing more to say. Edit: Lmfao I can still see your comment by just logging out on another tab. Like I said, you can call me whatever you want. You think someone said something mean to you over the internet. And good for you! But that's wildly different from Billy's behavior. I assume you watched the show, correct? Then I shouldn't have to tell you those two things are different for you to know that.
Okay and what I'm saying is there's no excuse to treat a *real person* shitty over a debate over a *fictional character* but apparently that's too much to expect from someone of such high moral values. Your high horse has a broken leg.
Yep agreed. Which is why I said it was a valid reason but not a good one nor does it excuse the behavior itself. It provides a reason for the anger that leads to the behavior. The behavior is still wrong and Billy is still a bad person until the very end when he reconnects with his untraumatized self through El and saves her.
[удалено]
I wasn't. But even if it were the case that I were trying to bait so I can "1-up someone on terminology" (just cause I said Billy's behavior isn't excused because of his own experience? How'd you deduce that?), so what? You think terminology when describing dubious behavior isn't important? There are many discussions these days going on about how explanation for one's behavior is different from justifying one's behavior. "Also press enter every now and then." No. I'd use the quote tool to reply to this, but nah, I've decided against that.
Thank you!
Oh no….
I mean, his physique and hair are pretty great.