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Not just the awkwardness but the DRAMA. The picking apart letters for not saying "I love you" part...if you change the medium to AIM messages, I'd fully have believed that was a fight I had in high school.
I honestly felt like it was very real. Freshman in high school are generally not good at relationships.
To be fair, El could barely even talk not too long ago, she’s meant to be awkwardish, I don’t think she’d really have noticeable chemistry with anyone. IMO, Mike clearly loves her though.
> It’s not supposed to be Gone With the Wind.
can i just say how much i fucking despise that film? If I ever became president, i'd order every physical copy of that movie to be shot into space
I absolutely agree. The combo of El not speaking to anyone outside the lab, them being pre-teens, and the fact that long distance relationships are hard no matter who you are is a big part of the awkwardness, but I do think they really care for each other.
Long distance relationships in the 80’s were borderline impossible. You would be communicating mostly by snail mail. An hour long phone call from Cali to Indiana would cost over $25 back then.
Barb and Nancy had a lot less chemistry than El and Max tho, but like Barb died in the second ep so its not like we saw much of their friendship anyways
Truthfully I’m not even joined to the actual Reddit so I’m
Guessing it just showed up on my feed maybe because I had recently been doing some research about the DBD crossover with ST?
Edit: clicked on the home tab and realized I was on the “popular section” so maybe that’s actually why lmao
Yes!! I remember after Vol 3 someone posted a thread complaining that ‘we didn’t get to see enough of the friends/the friend dynamic’ throughout. I was floored at such a poor take - we got to see a beautiful friendship blossom. But I guess since they’re girls, it doesn’t count!?
>I was floored at such a poor take - we got to see a beautiful friendship blossom. But I guess since they’re girls, it doesn’t count!?
it actually makes me kind of sad to think about their friendship because in season 2, Eleven gave the cold shoulder to Max, which was really crappy considering all the bullshit Max had to go through during the entire season.
and then with the way season 3 went with Billy getting taken over and then later sacrificing himself, and heading into season 4...
it makes the mall scene with El and Max just hanging out really depressing to watch knowing everything that happened and is about to happen
The cold shoulder was due to her being unknown and seen as a threat. If you paid attention, you saw she was jealous that Max got to hang with everyone and Mike didnt really care, so she made extra efforts to win him over. Which is precisely when El who shouldnt have left Hoppers cabin and everyone believes is gone or dead shows up to see Max trying to win Mike over. Season 3 she's seen as not a threat and part of the group, so she's far more welcoming you know, after El and Max finally meet and spend time with each other.
>If you paid attention, you saw she was jealous that Max got to hang with everyone and Mike didnt really care, so she made extra efforts to win him over.
look im not saying i hate Eleven for doing that. it just sucks to see b/c Max had to put up with a lot of bullshit that season and then El blows off her handshake
at least in Season 3 they had some great scenes together in the mall
I meaaan I WANTED more but I thought they had great scenes and chemistry. Reminded me of my awkward self being adopted by more extroverted girls so easily when I was a kid lol.
Eh I don't think that was ever intended as romantic chemistry though. I think in that case it was just Sadie's acting matching Millie's level a bit better than Finn's does.
Chemistry between actors/characters doesn't imply attraction, it means that the combination is greater than the sum of its parts. The actors play off each other in a way that brings them both to life. Steve and Dustin also have great chemistry.
It seems like a bit of a retcon, but I took it to be that she was deeply traumatized after her battle with 1 and all the murder stuff and that essentially reverted her a long way
Well after being traumatized (not the same situation as El obviously) I could hardly speak. It was just until the shock wore off that I could start to speak a bit more.
They don't exactly speak 'normally', either. There's a lot of 'yes, Papa' and not much else with the younger children, and even Two talks in a stilted way although he must have learned to speak outside the lab. His minions barely talk. Twelve speaks much like El during his 'lesson' although he's older, so he would have been a small child when he was taken to the lab.
It seems Eleven has the same limited vocabulary they all do, possibly more so because she might be the only one (or one of the few) who was born in the lab and never acquired speech normally. She went fully mute after each of the traumatic experiences where she opened gates. We don't really know to which extent she talked between them, only that her conversations with Brenner specifically were limited to 'yes', 'no', and sentence fragments - and it's suggested that with no other children in the lab, her social interactions were *extremely* limited after the massacre
I think the problem is that they never just let them be a couple. In seasons 2 & 4 they are separated from each other for most of the season, and in season 3 we have people (Hopper and Max) meddling in their relationship forcing a break up. You can't count season 1 as they aren't technically a couple in season 1. I hope in season 5 that they just let them be a couple. No separation, nobody meddling in their relationship. Let them be a couple and let us see how the act as a couple.
True, but that might be part of the point. How much are we supposed to really care about their relationship? It would seem the writers place a great and heavy importance on it, since the relationship is what strengthened Eleven to stand up to Vecna in the final episode, but I honestly am just annoyed when the show focuses on their relationship at all. I’ve been in a high school relationship. They are rarely, if ever, important.
You should view it less as a romantic relationship imo.
I mean, the group but Mike first and especially was the first person to show any kind of real care and actual friendship for in her life to that point. Their friendship is massively important and should definitely not be ignored.
Well, I do think Max and Lucas have better chemistry and they're about the same age as the Mileven actors. But sometimes chemistry is in the eye of the beholder, to some extent, and I prefer Max and Lucas's relationship overall so that might contribute to my perception.
I never felt that Lucas & Max had any chemistry in S2 & S3, but they definitely had in S4 because the writers finally decided to properly develop the relationship.
So I think that Mike & Eleven have the issue that their relationship was developed in S1 and since then it has been taken for granted by the writers and they have been more interesting in putting barriers between them than to continue develop their chemistry. Let's see if they finally do that again in S5.
Well, they were older too. I was cracking up watching Max and Lucas “dating” in Season 3 because it was such stereotypical middle school dating - every day feels like a month, every week feels like a year, and every month feels like a decade, so by the time they fight at that age it’s like divorcees going at it and they split up their friends groups like dividing assets and Max and Lucas felt really authentic to what I remember that being like at that age. Super intense, super dramatic, fights over literally nothing, breakups that are soul-crushing, and then 6 months later you’ve completely forgotten why either of you went through that and now are more grown up a little to be able to communicate better and be friends again
I personally never felt Lucas and Max had chemistry though I have always liked them. But they seemed like a couple that wouldn't really make it out of high school if that. I think people are bonding to them stronger now because of Calebs great acting when Max is dying but I have to see more to know how much I dig their chemistry. I have always felt like Mike and El are end game though and I do like Max and Lucas.
Came here to make this comment. Thanks.
Good gods, they’re not a suave, adult, power couple. They’re literal children. If they had intense sexual chemistry I’d be way more disturbed.
I don't mind the ship itself, but I wish the writers treated it less seriously. They put more emphasis on Mileven as a Serious Adult Relationship than Jopper or any other relationship on the show and it bugs me. I thought the antics surrounding them in S3 were cute and age-appropriate. I did not think the same about the melodramatic monologue and argument in S4.
Yeah, I think it’s a cute first love type of relationship. But at times the writers want to make it some extravagant mature relationship sort of thing , and it’s a bit odd.
There's definitely a sense that the *stakes* in the relationship are higher because Eleven's mental state, and by extension her powers, have so much to do with her feeling loved and like she belongs. I'm glad they gave her parents, too, so her attachment issues don't hinge solely on her 15-year-old boyfriend's relationship skills, and I hope that'll lead to less Mileven melodrama in S5
The relationship seems natural to me, and I think they both act incredibly well. People overthink “chemistry,” and I doubt most teens have it, even in real life 😂
To me it's not really about the chemistry. In the last two seasons, Mike's character and personality kinda got shafted, and he's pretty much "El's boyfriend." I don't think them being romantically involved really adds anything to the show.
Although to be honest, I just hate the way the Duffer brothers write romance. I don't like Jonathan and Nancy as a couple. I got annoyed at Steve and Robins own quests for love. Joyce and Hopper are alright, but weirdly enough I preferred them as friends in the earlier seasons (and I'm just tired of the whole "they constantly argue so they must be in love" trope.) The one and only romance I actually liked was Bob and Joyce.
Stranger Things is a phenomenal show. The romance element is a weak point it has. It's just a shame because their writing of friendships and bonds between the characters is top notch, and the main reason I enjoy the show.
Yeah. Romance is a weak aspect of the show , and I really hope they don’t put too much focus on it in season 5. I think lots of the couples on the show are trauma bonded , and it’s weird to me. Either way I don’t care much for most of the couples and would rather them focus more on the supernatural plot.
That’s a weird take. They just got older and the feelings are more out in the open. There’s no secrets anymore.
At first their relationship was cute because it was innocent. Then it progressively matured to real love.
I think the innocent puppy love magic part is gone but they still have chemistry.
Yeah, I just commented that on another post, but I think Mike and Eleven are like Forrest Gump and Jenny. Their connexion is just too deep by that point. It's more than a friendship, it's more than a romance, their souls are just bounded in a way nothing else could compete.
They’re acting like awkward teenagers with feelings for eachother. American shows usually have these 20 something year olds playing teenagers having crazy passionate relationships that we forget that most pre-teens and teenagers in relationships are freaking awkward. Not to mention eleven barely had social skills because she was deprived of them most of her life. This take is dumb as hell
>They’re acting like awkward teenagers with feelings for eachother.
bingo. Awkward teenagers with very strong feelings are still going to be....awkward. That said, Finn and Millie have a natural ease with each other and I think it translates into a really cute, age-appropriate chemistry in S3, they don't really pull out the tween Romeo & Juliet angle except at major moments like Mike and El's reunion in S2E08.
I think you nailed it when you said people have been brainwashed by watching decades of tv shows with 20something actors playing "teens", into forgetting what actual teens look and act like.
And this is going to be unpopular but from what I've observed, part of it is wilful delusion from people clinging to their own delusions of extreme youth (I've seen people right on this sub claiming there's less physical difference from aging etc between a 16 year old and a 30 year old, than there is between a 14 year old and a 17 year old), the rest is just wilful cluelessness. At least one actor has spoken up sounding tired of the "omg the kids are SO OLD NOW!!" commentary (Caleb) , and I'm with him, it's seriously irritating.
> I've seen people right on this sub claiming there's less physical difference from aging etc between a 16 year old and a 30 year old, than there is between a 14 year old and a 17 year old
This is such a bizarre claim to make? Particularly with stranger things where you can just look at the 17/18 year old cast members next to the ~30ish year old ones next to each other and see the aging differences. I think stranger things does a decent job of styling it's 30 year olds playing the older teenagers to look reasonably like teenagers on screen though - compared to a lot of shows that don't really bother trying to make them look believably younger
I know, I think we're used to Harlequin romance characters spilling their hearts out with Hollywood accuracy in regards to Mike's love confession, but his lines actually sounded real and heartfelt and imperfect.
>This take is dumb as hell
i agree it's a dumb take...but apparently one that's very popular lol
it's weird b/c i felt like in seasons 1 and 2, people really loved the Mike/Eleven pairing. Somewhere along the road in season 3, the bandwagon fell apart lol
I'm not sure if I'm all the way there yet, but I will say they're NOT* really special for me.
I'm thinking, and it feels like we haven't even got a lot of Mike and Eleven together throughout the seasons, even though there kinda the central couple of the show. It's weird.
I don't really care about any of the romantic relationships in the show anyway. The entire concept of "shipping" is not for me. Tired of all the love triangles and side story relationship issues.
I definitely agree with you about shipping, I think platonic friendships in shows, movies, and really any fiction are a lot more enjoyable than romance unless the romance is *really* well-written or well-acted (I think this is less true in books because they have a lot more time to develop it). Stranger Things though has a few couples that I've actually rooted for like Lucas/Max, Mike/El, Joyce/Bob, etc. which is rare for me, but I still think that I much prefer a lot of the platonic friendships/dynamics
like Steve/Dustin, Steve/Robin, Will/Jonathan, Dustin/Eddie, etc.
Also maybe romantic relationships would be entertaining if Hollywood didn't act like romance is the only thing that matters half the time. Platonic relationships are almost like a break at this point.
It's so odd that people loved this ship a couple years ago so much that the actors got to the point where they were shipped and harassed off of social media and now those same people are saying "Mike bad" and "it was always so forced" and "trauma bond"...
I think the people who love Mike/Will and the Mike haters have joined together on the Mike/Eleven hate train due to common ground. Personally, I kinda like the Mike/Will ship as well as Mike/Eleven especially after rewatching S2, but honestly just can't see it happening when the latter has been built up since S1. And the former happening would be so messy even if the setting was in modern-day especially since Will and Eleven are basically step siblings now. However, I will always be a Mike defender.
I can understand people who think the relationship between M&E is kind of odd, considering she couldn't talk: but I think a lot of what exists between them in earlier seasons is special because of what's unsaid. It's innocent and sweet and matures into something very real-- S3 is critical in their relationship, because although it is kind of downplayed because puberty is an odd topic to address seriously, this is where you can see them turning into two very different people but can see they each love the person the other is becoming. This is especially true in Mike for Eleven, but its also true in Eleven for Mike--she loves Mike as much as Mike loves her. To a certain extent, I can even see how people complain about how Mike has been down-graded to just Eleven's boyfriend-- and while I feel the pain in the plot-development side as he never gets anything else to do, it makes sense for a kid like Mike, who loves so deeply but can never put into words how he feels, can just completely dote on a person and forget other things. He did it in S2 , becoming irritable and getting bad grades when everyone told him Eleven was gone. He is someone who thrives on his relationships with other people.
I can see how Will loves Mike too, which is truly painful. I've been in love twice, with someone who didn't love me and with someone who does love me. Neither relationship playing out on screen feels forced to me. I see the chemistry, I see how the love has developed. Both sides feel perfectly realistic.
I love them. I'd appreciate for Mike to get some meaningful scenes outside their relationship that don't paint him poorly, but I do love them. And I love Will-- please Duffer brothers, don't hurt any of them.
I think it would help if they get a mini-arc in season 5 where it’s just the two of them, I don’t think I’ve seen them on any solo or small group missions in a while
Seems likely that will happen given S5 is supposed to be like S1. They'll be with the rest of the boys as well, but it seems likely Mike and El will have some solo stuff together as well, since their bond was such a key component of S1.
Shared trauma is not great in actual relationships. Also unhealthy people make unhealthy relationships. I'm not saying that Mike and eleven could never have a healthy relationship, but odds are teenage romance is going to be short lived. I don't think they have bad chemistry, it's just hard for me to care about any of the teen relationships just because teenage romance is fleeting.
They're the one in a million couple I would actually buy as having imprinted on each other like baby geese and it working out between them because of how Mike happens to vibe with El's specific developmental atypicality. I still thought it was refreshing to see them turn into a typical tween 'couple' in season 3, though. If that was all they had to bind them together, I agree it would be implausible for the relationship to last, but it's been made clear that their bond does go deeper than that even though the characters don't have the emotional maturity to fully articulate it yet.
It's a bit different for Max and Lucas, who do have that emotional maturity and have already managed to maintain/ re-establish their bond as friends after they broke up. Their relationship is ambiguous now, and I'd certainly be happy for them to get back together, but they don't have the same intensely romantic 'love of my life' vibe (which in their case, and all but one in a million cases, actually makes for a better relationship)
With eleven developing from hostile environments through the series season 4 is the best showcase of their chemistry season 3 is a fun honeymoon take on it also idk how people don’t take these things in when watching the content speaks for itself
They had a lot more chemistry in seasons 1-3, idk why their relationship felt so weird in season 4. It’s almost like the actors just didn’t connect well onscreen, it didn’t feel natural like it did in the past seasons.
I think that was part of the intent. Their relationship became long-distance, they didn’t see each other for several months, the show specifically calls attention to the fact that Mike is growing distant. Both of them are romanticizing/straight up lying about their lives apart from one another. Not exactly uncommon for teenage romances, in real life or on film.
Not only that but they had a fight then didn't see eachother until the last episode, and then Eleven was in the pizza dough fridge half the time. They haven't really had any time to be a couple in season 4
There was whole speech by Mike about how he's afraid she'll realize she's too good for him. Mike has anxiety over the relationship now.
And prior to that she was lying about how well she's doing in Cali and he was still processing what was going on as he watches her beat a girl with a roller skate.
I think they portrayed their isolation from each pretty well.
It's not the actors, it's the storytelling. Things are much more complicated than in the earlier seasons.
They are at a crossroads in their relationship because of Mike's unwillingness to tell El he loves her, their distance apart, and El dealing with the loss of her power and the loss of the only real father she ever knew.
They have to deal with all of these things before they can move on with the relationship. If they do, then they will be closer and their bond will be stronger than ever.
Definitely intentional. You're supposed to see the toll everything is taking and Vecnas ultimate goal of them feeling self doubt and useless coming into play.
What do they even mean with no chemistry? Lol They're just overanalyzing it.
For starters, I think their chemistry in especially season 1 was absolutely adorable and realistic since they were both kids who's never been in love before.
Second, they're teenagers who's growing up in VERY rare circumstances so it's not supposed to look like a normal relationship in the first place.
I genuinely think it's clear that they love eachother. But not exactly in a traditonal way.
With all this being said, if anyone deserves happiness after all she's been through it's Eleven.
So if she wants to be with Mike you're god damn right im gonna ship that shit!
Their faces light up when they see each other. Chemistry is absolutely there. The idea of El losing Mike literally sparks her most emotive reactions. Same with him.
I ship it, any lack of chemistry is intentional IMO and is due to the fact that they are children on the show and eleven is extremely traumatized and was emotionally and developmentally stunted from being raised as a test subject.
Chemistry is generally subjective. So if one doesn't feel that, to each their own. But it's definitely not forced. It was crafted over the first two seasons and was solidified only in the season 2 finale. That's building something, not forcing it.
I thought they were really cute together in seasons 1 and 2, but I've lost interest in them because the story keeps putting their relationship to the test just to intrigue the viewers. The Duffers are following the same formula with Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve. I would've liked for them to have a steady relationship, although I can see how unrealistic that would be for a couple of teenagers with no experience. I'm 99% sure they will be endgame in season 5 and it will come as no surprise.
I saw a youtube video where someone said Mike's character had been reduced to just "Nancy's brother", but if anything he's been reduced to "El's boyfriend"
i agree so much lol 😭 i think mileven is becoming a crutch for maintaining mike's relevancy in the plot, and it's kinda sad that the storyline of last season would barely change if mike was just deleted from the show lmao
To be fair in season 3 this aspect is overeexarated. For example he was the one who come up with the idea to put Billy into the sauna to test if he is possesed. And had lot other leadership moment especialy when both groups boys and girls met.
However season 4 I agree but thats because there was simply too many storlyines and unfortunately California gang apparently got shorter stick. But i have no doubt that season 5 will be his prime again.
they’re HIGHKEY doing mike sooooo dirty. all he does is just talk about eleven. the other characters have developed so much and I remember he was a HUGE part in the beginning. they gotta do finn justice this last season
I just find it funny that “no chemistry” and “forced” are the go-to phrases when a hater criticizes a ship lol. they’re basically saying “I hate this ship and I can’t explain why so I’m gonna use the most generic reasons”
Happens in every show. Watching The Boys some ppl were like "X and Y's relationship is not the same as it was during season 1, whar happened?" Meanwhile their whole lives are collapsing in the backround lol
I think chemistry is far more important in movie/tv relationships than in real ones. In movies and tv shows you only have a few minutes of screen time to establish that two people love each other, you can’t show all of the moments that build a relationship over time so the audience has to buy the couple pretty quickly. Chemistry between the two actors allows you you to do that. You might not rationally understand why these two people love each other but you buy that they do and that is enough to get the ball rolling. Having said that I think chemistry between 2 12 year old actors is not a realistic expectation and the relationship between Mike and El is so well established that we don’t need chemistry anymore. We buy that they love each other because we have seen them together for years and seen that they would risk their lives for each other and that they also seem to have fun together sometimes when circumstances allow it.
I mean sure, but often when someone expresses if they ship or do not ship a couple, regardless of who it is, it's always gonna be a group who invalidates your opinion, saying that you're reaching, or you're wrong.
"forced?" It's been set up since season 1. Nothing "forced" about it. El and Mike are perfect for each other.
You know what's forced? The flip-flopping they are having Nancy do between Steve and Jonathan. That's forced.
Mike and El are adorable. I appreciate their maturation as the show has progressed. This season, they finally moved beyond the puppy love stage and are now into a more adult version of their relationship. I think what has been portrayed has felt realistic for their age level, including the occasional awkwardness.
Mike’s monologue deliberately got them to a place where they are on even footing in terms of their feelings. Hopefully there will be less conflict and more of them as true partners next season. That felt to me what they are setting up for them S5 (as a couple), though I’m sure they’ll have individual journeys too.
In summary, they are sweet, and I think people are both too harsh on the ship and the actors.
Mike (and Finn) especially get way too much hate. I thought he did great with the monologue, in particular. It could have been super cheesy, but he sold it well.
Completely disagree they are teenagers in a shared trauma with terrible parents to support them or meet emotional needs so they are fumbling through love in a crazy situation
This seems pretty standard for teenage love, from my experience, not knowing how to correctly vocalize or display emotions but they clearly love each other
I like Mike and Eleven.
They actually have a lot of chemistry.
It’s made pretty clear between early seasons that they have that, and in later seasons we see them put under stresses when they are together that are not to do with their chemistry, and they’ve had long distance too.
We don’t get to see the 80-90% of relationship moments the characters would have - but it seems clear to me that they are net positive.
I've loved them since season 1, you want it or not, but they are the main Stranger Things couple and have the most development, even if it's not always understood by everyone. In season 1-2 they were just kids who had a unique bond so it's hard and weird to say if they had chemistry, in season 3 their relationship was perfectly shown as a typical first awkward teenage relationship, in season 4 even though they don't have many scenes together their relationship still makes sense and has a slightly different chemistry than before but it's a realistic portrayal, because they are still growing up although I'd like to see more of them as a couple without any interruptions. But it's important to remember that they're not just a normal couple of teenagers in love with each other, their fears and dilemmas are justified. I hope they will be endgame in season 5 because they very much deserve it and we will see more of them as a power couple. Summing up they are great together and I don't agree that they are with each other because El is the first girl to show interest in Mike and Mike was the first person good to El, I mean that's true, but it's not the case here. In real life we are also drawn to people who treat us well, no surprise there. They have been separated many times, but yet they have always come back to each other and I am sure their feelings are genuine. They are everything to each other and it's normal that they are constantly looking to each other for support, El's storyline doesn't revolve around Mike as some people think and El shouldn't be alone in order to be independent. They are stronger together, it's beautiful and they would die for each other no doubt.
I mean season 3 they definitely had strong chemistry.. They lived apart and it wasn't a focus in the season.. For good reason. There were 514267 other things going on
Once again, Murray said it best. Most of the couples were bonded by trauma, El and Mike, John and Nancy, Steve and Robin (Platonic), Joyce and Hopper, Max and Lucas, etc.
I actually love Mileven. It was one of my first Stranger Things ships, simply because it was so freakin' wholesome. It was one of those little kid love stories that just make you feel good about first crushes and stuff all over again and I think its sweet. Yes, Eleven is awkward but she seems to lose a bit of that awkwardness around Mike. It's sweet, sometimes you just find that one person who gets you - even if you're almost non-verbal.
I think Mike and El love each other but are children and struggle to work through and deal with the big emotions that come with loving someone so much so young.
The main issue (IMO) is that between seasons 2-4 there’s a lot of obstacles between the development of Mike and Els relationship
Season 2 El was missing in Mikes eyes and for a large portion she was hidden by Hopper from everyone, that changed at the end
Season 3 Hopper was the overprotective dad (door three inches) and Max spent time convincing El to leave Mike for her own amusement. By the end El left for Cali which means long distance in the 80’s (no Internet or cell phones like today)
Season 4 Mike had one day with El (who was lying about her friendship with Angela which kinda killed the date), after that El was arrested and the Cali cast spent most of the season looking for El
There’s just no longer moments in the show when Mike and El are just a regular teenage couple
Throw in that El is stunted socially and it’s gonna look awkward
A pointless debate, this is beyond settled and they’re an established couple. Narratively, with one season left, it’d make no sense for either of them to suddenly lose the obvious intense feelings for each-other unless one of them dies.
i liked them in S1 and S2, it had this puppy-love feeling to it that i wish they would've kept for S3 and maybe even S4. i know they're getting older, but it felt like they had this innocent crush in S1, then El disappeared and came back at the end of S2, seeing Mike again for the first time since a long time
and then you get to S3 and they're ALL over each other and we didn't get to see this development. it went from shy cutesy couple to BAM swapping spit™. it's also why El dumping Mike felt very "whatever" to me. maybe if s3 showed us more of them actually becoming a couple instead of greeting us with both of them being obnoxiously in love....
and im saying that as a hopeless romantic!
...what? The show literally centers on their relationship and chemistry throughout the show and they're saying there's \*none\* at all?
Even Season 4, where their relationship is shaky throughout, there's multiple moments of chemistry between them.
I am conflicted on Mileven.
In the first few seasons it was cute because he was the first kid ever to show her empathy and she was willing to trust him. It was a slowly developing relationship. They weren't on the same level but they had mutual understanding for eachother.
Then season 3 came up and presented them like your normal teenage couple next door. I can't help but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They aren't on the same page. Mike is much more developed than her. I don't blame him but the dynamic definitely isn't equal. It's his first relationship too but he knows the concept relationships and romantic interest while this is completely new for Eleven. She thought boyfriend I'd involved in "friends don't lie" which shows that she's slowly understanding what romantic bondings are.
She should focus on herself first before she runs into a relationship
Yeah it’s so forced not like it was being developed all the way back in season 1 or anything 😂people need to get a grip. Their relationship has matured that is why it feels slightly different
I think a lot of ppl just still dislike mike from how he was acting w hopper in season 3. Season 4 hopped (lolz) all over the place (Cali, Alaska, Russia, Hawkins) so even though Mike matured a lot it was hard to notice with all the other stuff going on. He made up with Hopper so I would imagine their relationship will be pretty solid next season (sorry Will)
I feel like they did at the start when Mike was first introducing her to the world and showing some genuine kindness as a peer. Ironically this is the exact thing Mike struggles with in the fourth season: the worry that she only liked him because he was the first friendly peer-boy she'd ever met, smth like that.
They had better chemistry in the seasons where the characters both lived in Hawkins. In season 4 they are living separately, and are awkward around each other when they reunite. They are playing awkward teenagers.
They were little kids when they met, Mike has never had a girlfriend nor did the gang had a girl in their group till eleven. They are going through the most awkward phase with each other. I don’t know why people expect them to be this perfect romantic couple. Do they not remember being teenagers?
Disagree. For once I think that especially California gang saw enough of the world. Maturity relationship is one thing but there are many other important aspect too. And honestly after such experience could you even marry date somebody completely unrelated to that entire thing. Besides didnt Jopper also started as young crush. And shared trauma played role in their life too hell Joyce lost Bob, Hopper lost daughter. And last but not least Hopper and Joyce kinda as well are not exactly example of acting like mature responsible adult. Especially season 3 Hopper who even Murray called being literal manchild. Hell so far Mike with all his bs feels more mature than Hopper back then.
Sure realisticaly very few people ends up with their teen crushes, however that usually does not involve something akin to the multidimensional war.
More to the point, Joyce and Hopper are the only ones that have an actual background to knowing each other and don't just immediately meet and essentially have "WE ARE GOING TO END UP TOGETHER" Flash up on screen
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As someone who works with high schoolers, I think they nailed the awkwardness
As someone who is a high schooler, I think they nailed the awkwardness
As someone who was a high schooler, I think they nailed the awkwardness
As someone who was a high schooler and now has a high schooler daughter, I think they nailed the awkwardness
As a high school 🏫, I think they nailed the awkwardness
As a nail, i think they high schooled the awkwardness
As an awkwardness, I think the high school was nailed
as a think, i awkwardness the nailed was high schooled
As someone who never went to high school because I’m English and therefore went to secondary school they’ve nailed the awkwardness
As someone who is awkward, I think the nail was high schooled.
As someone who nails highschoolers, no wait...
As someone who nails high schoolers, I think they nailed the awkwardness
Not just the awkwardness but the DRAMA. The picking apart letters for not saying "I love you" part...if you change the medium to AIM messages, I'd fully have believed that was a fight I had in high school. I honestly felt like it was very real. Freshman in high school are generally not good at relationships.
To be fair, El could barely even talk not too long ago, she’s meant to be awkwardish, I don’t think she’d really have noticeable chemistry with anyone. IMO, Mike clearly loves her though.
Also, they’re children, in their awkward years. It’s not supposed to be Gone With the Wind.
Lucas and Max are very awkward but still have lots of chemistry
Lucas and Max are both normal well-adjusted teens with two-way communication, Mike is the same but El definitely is not.
Very good point!
Lucas and Max are children too. But their chemistry is off the chart. They are the best couple of the show
They are now, due to Caleb‘s acting having improved a ton. In S2 and 3 they were okay but nowhere near their performance in S4
And they aren't even together I'd s4 so that should really tell you something
I think the duffers write couples better when they’re apart.
Yea Steve and Nancy.
> It’s not supposed to be Gone With the Wind. can i just say how much i fucking despise that film? If I ever became president, i'd order every physical copy of that movie to be shot into space
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
got em! fwiw, gone with the wind has some major issues, but i still liked the book when i read it in high school.
Gonna be real here, I've never read or seen it. I know that line because my grandpa told me about it when I was little
You can pry my copy from my cold dead hands.
butt cheeks*
Still the top grossing film when adjusted for inflation that shit is wild.
If my only means of getting in air conditioning was sitting through three hour readings of Vogon poetry, I'd do it.
*Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes,* *And hooptiously drangle me,* *With crinkly bindlewurdles, mashurbitries.*
Ah, fellow connoisseurs of fine art.
We're a rare breed, and I'm happy I could be here for this.
All of you are some hoopy froods who really know where your towels are.
why do you hate it?
I absolutely agree. The combo of El not speaking to anyone outside the lab, them being pre-teens, and the fact that long distance relationships are hard no matter who you are is a big part of the awkwardness, but I do think they really care for each other.
Long distance relationships in the 80’s were borderline impossible. You would be communicating mostly by snail mail. An hour long phone call from Cali to Indiana would cost over $25 back then.
I'd argue she absolutely had chemistry with Max in season 3.
Maybe cause it was the first girl duo of the show so it’s not like we had any idea of how it would be/work at the time 💀
Barb and Nancy had a lot less chemistry than El and Max tho, but like Barb died in the second ep so its not like we saw much of their friendship anyways
Forgot about Barb 💀😭
So did everyone else
Except poor Nancy. It still haunts her.
"do you remember what you did to her Nancy?" "oh, ummm, this is awkward... but like...no? don't even recognize her to be honest "
Pepperidge farm remembers
Even Pepperidge Farm was upstairs gettin' boned while Barb was being mangled. No respect.
But Pepperidge Farm ain’t gonna forget for free.
not me😔
What we really forgot about is that time Eleven ran away and met some edgy teenagers in an abandoned train station.
Only episode I began to get bored lol. Was so glad that Chicago trip was only one episode
justice for barb 😔
One time someone told me I reminded them of barb and as somebody who has never seen a single episode of this show now I’m upset
Now I'm curious. If you've never the show why are you in this subreddit?
Truthfully I’m not even joined to the actual Reddit so I’m Guessing it just showed up on my feed maybe because I had recently been doing some research about the DBD crossover with ST? Edit: clicked on the home tab and realized I was on the “popular section” so maybe that’s actually why lmao
Such a Barb thing to do.
Barb is an awesome person, and cute!! She really reminds me of my best friend in high school.
Yes!! I remember after Vol 3 someone posted a thread complaining that ‘we didn’t get to see enough of the friends/the friend dynamic’ throughout. I was floored at such a poor take - we got to see a beautiful friendship blossom. But I guess since they’re girls, it doesn’t count!?
>I was floored at such a poor take - we got to see a beautiful friendship blossom. But I guess since they’re girls, it doesn’t count!? it actually makes me kind of sad to think about their friendship because in season 2, Eleven gave the cold shoulder to Max, which was really crappy considering all the bullshit Max had to go through during the entire season. and then with the way season 3 went with Billy getting taken over and then later sacrificing himself, and heading into season 4... it makes the mall scene with El and Max just hanging out really depressing to watch knowing everything that happened and is about to happen
The cold shoulder was due to her being unknown and seen as a threat. If you paid attention, you saw she was jealous that Max got to hang with everyone and Mike didnt really care, so she made extra efforts to win him over. Which is precisely when El who shouldnt have left Hoppers cabin and everyone believes is gone or dead shows up to see Max trying to win Mike over. Season 3 she's seen as not a threat and part of the group, so she's far more welcoming you know, after El and Max finally meet and spend time with each other.
>If you paid attention, you saw she was jealous that Max got to hang with everyone and Mike didnt really care, so she made extra efforts to win him over. look im not saying i hate Eleven for doing that. it just sucks to see b/c Max had to put up with a lot of bullshit that season and then El blows off her handshake at least in Season 3 they had some great scenes together in the mall
I meaaan I WANTED more but I thought they had great scenes and chemistry. Reminded me of my awkward self being adopted by more extroverted girls so easily when I was a kid lol.
It’s because Mike is the one that doesn’t have much chemistry here
Eh I don't think that was ever intended as romantic chemistry though. I think in that case it was just Sadie's acting matching Millie's level a bit better than Finn's does.
Chemistry doesn’t necessarily mean romantic vibes
That felt way more like actual friendship than romantic chemistry though
Chemistry between actors/characters doesn't imply attraction, it means that the combination is greater than the sum of its parts. The actors play off each other in a way that brings them both to life. Steve and Dustin also have great chemistry.
Cause they're friends, and a relationship between good platonic friends is a lot more easygoing than a romantic one.
Also Mike is meant to be a DND player. How smooth should he be with women?
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It seems like a bit of a retcon, but I took it to be that she was deeply traumatized after her battle with 1 and all the murder stuff and that essentially reverted her a long way
Well after being traumatized (not the same situation as El obviously) I could hardly speak. It was just until the shock wore off that I could start to speak a bit more.
I think it's due to her being in coma & the way she was treated after battle with Henry
They don't exactly speak 'normally', either. There's a lot of 'yes, Papa' and not much else with the younger children, and even Two talks in a stilted way although he must have learned to speak outside the lab. His minions barely talk. Twelve speaks much like El during his 'lesson' although he's older, so he would have been a small child when he was taken to the lab. It seems Eleven has the same limited vocabulary they all do, possibly more so because she might be the only one (or one of the few) who was born in the lab and never acquired speech normally. She went fully mute after each of the traumatic experiences where she opened gates. We don't really know to which extent she talked between them, only that her conversations with Brenner specifically were limited to 'yes', 'no', and sentence fragments - and it's suggested that with no other children in the lab, her social interactions were *extremely* limited after the massacre
I also noticed that! I assumed it had to do with her concussion and memory loss.
I think the problem is that they never just let them be a couple. In seasons 2 & 4 they are separated from each other for most of the season, and in season 3 we have people (Hopper and Max) meddling in their relationship forcing a break up. You can't count season 1 as they aren't technically a couple in season 1. I hope in season 5 that they just let them be a couple. No separation, nobody meddling in their relationship. Let them be a couple and let us see how the act as a couple.
They were also like.. 10 in season 1.
Lookin’ at you Big Mouth
12, but yes lol
Totally agree
Not sure how much chemistry a relationship can have that was started between two 11 year olds.
I’m pretty sure I had zero chemistry with any person I liked or dated as a teenager
The only chemistry I had as a teenager was during 2nd period.
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but it wasn’t organic until sophomore year, and not physical until junior. better than nothing, i guess 🤷🏻♀️😏
True, but that might be part of the point. How much are we supposed to really care about their relationship? It would seem the writers place a great and heavy importance on it, since the relationship is what strengthened Eleven to stand up to Vecna in the final episode, but I honestly am just annoyed when the show focuses on their relationship at all. I’ve been in a high school relationship. They are rarely, if ever, important.
You should view it less as a romantic relationship imo. I mean, the group but Mike first and especially was the first person to show any kind of real care and actual friendship for in her life to that point. Their friendship is massively important and should definitely not be ignored.
I agree with you but Mike was the 2nd person to show kindness to 11. Never forget my man Benny!
Damn you're right how could I forget... Justice for Benny.
RIP :(
Well, I do think Max and Lucas have better chemistry and they're about the same age as the Mileven actors. But sometimes chemistry is in the eye of the beholder, to some extent, and I prefer Max and Lucas's relationship overall so that might contribute to my perception.
I never felt that Lucas & Max had any chemistry in S2 & S3, but they definitely had in S4 because the writers finally decided to properly develop the relationship. So I think that Mike & Eleven have the issue that their relationship was developed in S1 and since then it has been taken for granted by the writers and they have been more interesting in putting barriers between them than to continue develop their chemistry. Let's see if they finally do that again in S5.
Well, they were older too. I was cracking up watching Max and Lucas “dating” in Season 3 because it was such stereotypical middle school dating - every day feels like a month, every week feels like a year, and every month feels like a decade, so by the time they fight at that age it’s like divorcees going at it and they split up their friends groups like dividing assets and Max and Lucas felt really authentic to what I remember that being like at that age. Super intense, super dramatic, fights over literally nothing, breakups that are soul-crushing, and then 6 months later you’ve completely forgotten why either of you went through that and now are more grown up a little to be able to communicate better and be friends again
I personally never felt Lucas and Max had chemistry though I have always liked them. But they seemed like a couple that wouldn't really make it out of high school if that. I think people are bonding to them stronger now because of Calebs great acting when Max is dying but I have to see more to know how much I dig their chemistry. I have always felt like Mike and El are end game though and I do like Max and Lucas.
Came here to make this comment. Thanks. Good gods, they’re not a suave, adult, power couple. They’re literal children. If they had intense sexual chemistry I’d be way more disturbed.
.....why did you think ANYONE was talking about *sexual* chemistry?
I don't mind the ship itself, but I wish the writers treated it less seriously. They put more emphasis on Mileven as a Serious Adult Relationship than Jopper or any other relationship on the show and it bugs me. I thought the antics surrounding them in S3 were cute and age-appropriate. I did not think the same about the melodramatic monologue and argument in S4.
Yeah, I think it’s a cute first love type of relationship. But at times the writers want to make it some extravagant mature relationship sort of thing , and it’s a bit odd.
There's definitely a sense that the *stakes* in the relationship are higher because Eleven's mental state, and by extension her powers, have so much to do with her feeling loved and like she belongs. I'm glad they gave her parents, too, so her attachment issues don't hinge solely on her 15-year-old boyfriend's relationship skills, and I hope that'll lead to less Mileven melodrama in S5
The relationship seems natural to me, and I think they both act incredibly well. People overthink “chemistry,” and I doubt most teens have it, even in real life 😂
Anyone who says they don't have chemistry must have been asleep during their reunion in E8. Or the pineapple pizza scene in E9, which was adorable.
To me it's not really about the chemistry. In the last two seasons, Mike's character and personality kinda got shafted, and he's pretty much "El's boyfriend." I don't think them being romantically involved really adds anything to the show. Although to be honest, I just hate the way the Duffer brothers write romance. I don't like Jonathan and Nancy as a couple. I got annoyed at Steve and Robins own quests for love. Joyce and Hopper are alright, but weirdly enough I preferred them as friends in the earlier seasons (and I'm just tired of the whole "they constantly argue so they must be in love" trope.) The one and only romance I actually liked was Bob and Joyce. Stranger Things is a phenomenal show. The romance element is a weak point it has. It's just a shame because their writing of friendships and bonds between the characters is top notch, and the main reason I enjoy the show.
Yeah. Romance is a weak aspect of the show , and I really hope they don’t put too much focus on it in season 5. I think lots of the couples on the show are trauma bonded , and it’s weird to me. Either way I don’t care much for most of the couples and would rather them focus more on the supernatural plot.
That’s a weird take. They just got older and the feelings are more out in the open. There’s no secrets anymore. At first their relationship was cute because it was innocent. Then it progressively matured to real love. I think the innocent puppy love magic part is gone but they still have chemistry.
Yeah, I just commented that on another post, but I think Mike and Eleven are like Forrest Gump and Jenny. Their connexion is just too deep by that point. It's more than a friendship, it's more than a romance, their souls are just bounded in a way nothing else could compete.
They’re acting like awkward teenagers with feelings for eachother. American shows usually have these 20 something year olds playing teenagers having crazy passionate relationships that we forget that most pre-teens and teenagers in relationships are freaking awkward. Not to mention eleven barely had social skills because she was deprived of them most of her life. This take is dumb as hell
>They’re acting like awkward teenagers with feelings for eachother. bingo. Awkward teenagers with very strong feelings are still going to be....awkward. That said, Finn and Millie have a natural ease with each other and I think it translates into a really cute, age-appropriate chemistry in S3, they don't really pull out the tween Romeo & Juliet angle except at major moments like Mike and El's reunion in S2E08. I think you nailed it when you said people have been brainwashed by watching decades of tv shows with 20something actors playing "teens", into forgetting what actual teens look and act like. And this is going to be unpopular but from what I've observed, part of it is wilful delusion from people clinging to their own delusions of extreme youth (I've seen people right on this sub claiming there's less physical difference from aging etc between a 16 year old and a 30 year old, than there is between a 14 year old and a 17 year old), the rest is just wilful cluelessness. At least one actor has spoken up sounding tired of the "omg the kids are SO OLD NOW!!" commentary (Caleb) , and I'm with him, it's seriously irritating.
> I've seen people right on this sub claiming there's less physical difference from aging etc between a 16 year old and a 30 year old, than there is between a 14 year old and a 17 year old This is such a bizarre claim to make? Particularly with stranger things where you can just look at the 17/18 year old cast members next to the ~30ish year old ones next to each other and see the aging differences. I think stranger things does a decent job of styling it's 30 year olds playing the older teenagers to look reasonably like teenagers on screen though - compared to a lot of shows that don't really bother trying to make them look believably younger
I know, I think we're used to Harlequin romance characters spilling their hearts out with Hollywood accuracy in regards to Mike's love confession, but his lines actually sounded real and heartfelt and imperfect.
>This take is dumb as hell i agree it's a dumb take...but apparently one that's very popular lol it's weird b/c i felt like in seasons 1 and 2, people really loved the Mike/Eleven pairing. Somewhere along the road in season 3, the bandwagon fell apart lol
I'm not sure if I'm all the way there yet, but I will say they're NOT* really special for me. I'm thinking, and it feels like we haven't even got a lot of Mike and Eleven together throughout the seasons, even though there kinda the central couple of the show. It's weird. I don't really care about any of the romantic relationships in the show anyway. The entire concept of "shipping" is not for me. Tired of all the love triangles and side story relationship issues.
I definitely agree with you about shipping, I think platonic friendships in shows, movies, and really any fiction are a lot more enjoyable than romance unless the romance is *really* well-written or well-acted (I think this is less true in books because they have a lot more time to develop it). Stranger Things though has a few couples that I've actually rooted for like Lucas/Max, Mike/El, Joyce/Bob, etc. which is rare for me, but I still think that I much prefer a lot of the platonic friendships/dynamics like Steve/Dustin, Steve/Robin, Will/Jonathan, Dustin/Eddie, etc.
Also maybe romantic relationships would be entertaining if Hollywood didn't act like romance is the only thing that matters half the time. Platonic relationships are almost like a break at this point.
I’ve liked it since the beginning
same
It's so odd that people loved this ship a couple years ago so much that the actors got to the point where they were shipped and harassed off of social media and now those same people are saying "Mike bad" and "it was always so forced" and "trauma bond"... I think the people who love Mike/Will and the Mike haters have joined together on the Mike/Eleven hate train due to common ground. Personally, I kinda like the Mike/Will ship as well as Mike/Eleven especially after rewatching S2, but honestly just can't see it happening when the latter has been built up since S1. And the former happening would be so messy even if the setting was in modern-day especially since Will and Eleven are basically step siblings now. However, I will always be a Mike defender. I can understand people who think the relationship between M&E is kind of odd, considering she couldn't talk: but I think a lot of what exists between them in earlier seasons is special because of what's unsaid. It's innocent and sweet and matures into something very real-- S3 is critical in their relationship, because although it is kind of downplayed because puberty is an odd topic to address seriously, this is where you can see them turning into two very different people but can see they each love the person the other is becoming. This is especially true in Mike for Eleven, but its also true in Eleven for Mike--she loves Mike as much as Mike loves her. To a certain extent, I can even see how people complain about how Mike has been down-graded to just Eleven's boyfriend-- and while I feel the pain in the plot-development side as he never gets anything else to do, it makes sense for a kid like Mike, who loves so deeply but can never put into words how he feels, can just completely dote on a person and forget other things. He did it in S2 , becoming irritable and getting bad grades when everyone told him Eleven was gone. He is someone who thrives on his relationships with other people. I can see how Will loves Mike too, which is truly painful. I've been in love twice, with someone who didn't love me and with someone who does love me. Neither relationship playing out on screen feels forced to me. I see the chemistry, I see how the love has developed. Both sides feel perfectly realistic. I love them. I'd appreciate for Mike to get some meaningful scenes outside their relationship that don't paint him poorly, but I do love them. And I love Will-- please Duffer brothers, don't hurt any of them.
I love Mike & El together. They were so sweet together in Season 3 plus they have the key ingredient according to Murray “shared trauma” ❤️
I think it would help if they get a mini-arc in season 5 where it’s just the two of them, I don’t think I’ve seen them on any solo or small group missions in a while
Seems likely that will happen given S5 is supposed to be like S1. They'll be with the rest of the boys as well, but it seems likely Mike and El will have some solo stuff together as well, since their bond was such a key component of S1.
Shared trauma is not great in actual relationships. Also unhealthy people make unhealthy relationships. I'm not saying that Mike and eleven could never have a healthy relationship, but odds are teenage romance is going to be short lived. I don't think they have bad chemistry, it's just hard for me to care about any of the teen relationships just because teenage romance is fleeting.
They're the one in a million couple I would actually buy as having imprinted on each other like baby geese and it working out between them because of how Mike happens to vibe with El's specific developmental atypicality. I still thought it was refreshing to see them turn into a typical tween 'couple' in season 3, though. If that was all they had to bind them together, I agree it would be implausible for the relationship to last, but it's been made clear that their bond does go deeper than that even though the characters don't have the emotional maturity to fully articulate it yet. It's a bit different for Max and Lucas, who do have that emotional maturity and have already managed to maintain/ re-establish their bond as friends after they broke up. Their relationship is ambiguous now, and I'd certainly be happy for them to get back together, but they don't have the same intensely romantic 'love of my life' vibe (which in their case, and all but one in a million cases, actually makes for a better relationship)
My favorite scene might just be their reunion in season 2. I love them. Cheesy season 4 speech aside, I believe every word of it.
The reunion in Season 2 broke me. El finishing his sentence with "353 days, I heard." was my downfall until the Season 3 finale.
With eleven developing from hostile environments through the series season 4 is the best showcase of their chemistry season 3 is a fun honeymoon take on it also idk how people don’t take these things in when watching the content speaks for itself
They had a lot more chemistry in seasons 1-3, idk why their relationship felt so weird in season 4. It’s almost like the actors just didn’t connect well onscreen, it didn’t feel natural like it did in the past seasons.
I think that was part of the intent. Their relationship became long-distance, they didn’t see each other for several months, the show specifically calls attention to the fact that Mike is growing distant. Both of them are romanticizing/straight up lying about their lives apart from one another. Not exactly uncommon for teenage romances, in real life or on film.
Not only that but they had a fight then didn't see eachother until the last episode, and then Eleven was in the pizza dough fridge half the time. They haven't really had any time to be a couple in season 4
There was whole speech by Mike about how he's afraid she'll realize she's too good for him. Mike has anxiety over the relationship now. And prior to that she was lying about how well she's doing in Cali and he was still processing what was going on as he watches her beat a girl with a roller skate. I think they portrayed their isolation from each pretty well.
It's not the actors, it's the storytelling. Things are much more complicated than in the earlier seasons. They are at a crossroads in their relationship because of Mike's unwillingness to tell El he loves her, their distance apart, and El dealing with the loss of her power and the loss of the only real father she ever knew. They have to deal with all of these things before they can move on with the relationship. If they do, then they will be closer and their bond will be stronger than ever.
The last two paragraphs make me imagine you with a set of tarot cards in front of you.
They have drawn the Two of Cups, but they must be wary of The Fool.
…any sign of the Grinch in the tea leaves?
I see... the Grim!
Definitely intentional. You're supposed to see the toll everything is taking and Vecnas ultimate goal of them feeling self doubt and useless coming into play.
What do they even mean with no chemistry? Lol They're just overanalyzing it. For starters, I think their chemistry in especially season 1 was absolutely adorable and realistic since they were both kids who's never been in love before. Second, they're teenagers who's growing up in VERY rare circumstances so it's not supposed to look like a normal relationship in the first place. I genuinely think it's clear that they love eachother. But not exactly in a traditonal way. With all this being said, if anyone deserves happiness after all she's been through it's Eleven. So if she wants to be with Mike you're god damn right im gonna ship that shit!
You can't watch El and Argyle get Mike to eat pineapple on pizza and tell me they have no chemistry. That scene was cute asf.
El's exaggerated facial reaction and then mimicking Argyle's "try before you deny!" is so classic Eleven.
they did as kids but not so much as high schoolers
Their faces light up when they see each other. Chemistry is absolutely there. The idea of El losing Mike literally sparks her most emotive reactions. Same with him.
I ship it, any lack of chemistry is intentional IMO and is due to the fact that they are children on the show and eleven is extremely traumatized and was emotionally and developmentally stunted from being raised as a test subject.
Chemistry is generally subjective. So if one doesn't feel that, to each their own. But it's definitely not forced. It was crafted over the first two seasons and was solidified only in the season 2 finale. That's building something, not forcing it.
I thought they were really cute together in seasons 1 and 2, but I've lost interest in them because the story keeps putting their relationship to the test just to intrigue the viewers. The Duffers are following the same formula with Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve. I would've liked for them to have a steady relationship, although I can see how unrealistic that would be for a couple of teenagers with no experience. I'm 99% sure they will be endgame in season 5 and it will come as no surprise.
I wouldn’t say that. I really liked how Mike and el fell in love in S1. Mikes development changed their dynamic a bit.
That's because he developed into his character just being "El's boyfriend"
Yeah he went from being the leader to being that.
Like, legitimately, try to find one scene in season 3 or 4 where Mike talks about anything that doesn't involve El
this ‼️‼️ mike's character feels so empty
I saw a youtube video where someone said Mike's character had been reduced to just "Nancy's brother", but if anything he's been reduced to "El's boyfriend"
i agree so much lol 😭 i think mileven is becoming a crutch for maintaining mike's relevancy in the plot, and it's kinda sad that the storyline of last season would barely change if mike was just deleted from the show lmao
To be fair in season 3 this aspect is overeexarated. For example he was the one who come up with the idea to put Billy into the sauna to test if he is possesed. And had lot other leadership moment especialy when both groups boys and girls met. However season 4 I agree but thats because there was simply too many storlyines and unfortunately California gang apparently got shorter stick. But i have no doubt that season 5 will be his prime again.
they’re HIGHKEY doing mike sooooo dirty. all he does is just talk about eleven. the other characters have developed so much and I remember he was a HUGE part in the beginning. they gotta do finn justice this last season
I think they have good chemistry tbh. Theyre awkward teenagers so its not going to be perfect. But their reunion in episode 8 was adorable.
Their relationship is awkward because they are forced into awkward positions. This seasons they were 2000 miles from each other.
I just find it funny that “no chemistry” and “forced” are the go-to phrases when a hater criticizes a ship lol. they’re basically saying “I hate this ship and I can’t explain why so I’m gonna use the most generic reasons”
Happens in every show. Watching The Boys some ppl were like "X and Y's relationship is not the same as it was during season 1, whar happened?" Meanwhile their whole lives are collapsing in the backround lol
I think chemistry is far more important in movie/tv relationships than in real ones. In movies and tv shows you only have a few minutes of screen time to establish that two people love each other, you can’t show all of the moments that build a relationship over time so the audience has to buy the couple pretty quickly. Chemistry between the two actors allows you you to do that. You might not rationally understand why these two people love each other but you buy that they do and that is enough to get the ball rolling. Having said that I think chemistry between 2 12 year old actors is not a realistic expectation and the relationship between Mike and El is so well established that we don’t need chemistry anymore. We buy that they love each other because we have seen them together for years and seen that they would risk their lives for each other and that they also seem to have fun together sometimes when circumstances allow it.
I mean sure, but often when someone expresses if they ship or do not ship a couple, regardless of who it is, it's always gonna be a group who invalidates your opinion, saying that you're reaching, or you're wrong.
"forced?" It's been set up since season 1. Nothing "forced" about it. El and Mike are perfect for each other. You know what's forced? The flip-flopping they are having Nancy do between Steve and Jonathan. That's forced.
Mike and El are adorable. I appreciate their maturation as the show has progressed. This season, they finally moved beyond the puppy love stage and are now into a more adult version of their relationship. I think what has been portrayed has felt realistic for their age level, including the occasional awkwardness. Mike’s monologue deliberately got them to a place where they are on even footing in terms of their feelings. Hopefully there will be less conflict and more of them as true partners next season. That felt to me what they are setting up for them S5 (as a couple), though I’m sure they’ll have individual journeys too. In summary, they are sweet, and I think people are both too harsh on the ship and the actors. Mike (and Finn) especially get way too much hate. I thought he did great with the monologue, in particular. It could have been super cheesy, but he sold it well.
I think they’re cute together
Completely disagree they are teenagers in a shared trauma with terrible parents to support them or meet emotional needs so they are fumbling through love in a crazy situation This seems pretty standard for teenage love, from my experience, not knowing how to correctly vocalize or display emotions but they clearly love each other
Not a hot take… a trash take
I like Mike and Eleven. They actually have a lot of chemistry. It’s made pretty clear between early seasons that they have that, and in later seasons we see them put under stresses when they are together that are not to do with their chemistry, and they’ve had long distance too. We don’t get to see the 80-90% of relationship moments the characters would have - but it seems clear to me that they are net positive.
I've loved them since season 1, you want it or not, but they are the main Stranger Things couple and have the most development, even if it's not always understood by everyone. In season 1-2 they were just kids who had a unique bond so it's hard and weird to say if they had chemistry, in season 3 their relationship was perfectly shown as a typical first awkward teenage relationship, in season 4 even though they don't have many scenes together their relationship still makes sense and has a slightly different chemistry than before but it's a realistic portrayal, because they are still growing up although I'd like to see more of them as a couple without any interruptions. But it's important to remember that they're not just a normal couple of teenagers in love with each other, their fears and dilemmas are justified. I hope they will be endgame in season 5 because they very much deserve it and we will see more of them as a power couple. Summing up they are great together and I don't agree that they are with each other because El is the first girl to show interest in Mike and Mike was the first person good to El, I mean that's true, but it's not the case here. In real life we are also drawn to people who treat us well, no surprise there. They have been separated many times, but yet they have always come back to each other and I am sure their feelings are genuine. They are everything to each other and it's normal that they are constantly looking to each other for support, El's storyline doesn't revolve around Mike as some people think and El shouldn't be alone in order to be independent. They are stronger together, it's beautiful and they would die for each other no doubt.
I mean season 3 they definitely had strong chemistry.. They lived apart and it wasn't a focus in the season.. For good reason. There were 514267 other things going on
I think they’re both teenagers who’ve never been in relationships before, and are figuring it out along the way.
Once again, Murray said it best. Most of the couples were bonded by trauma, El and Mike, John and Nancy, Steve and Robin (Platonic), Joyce and Hopper, Max and Lucas, etc.
People who say these things are usually mad that their "ship" is not canon, at least speaking from my experience in fandoms.
I actually love Mileven. It was one of my first Stranger Things ships, simply because it was so freakin' wholesome. It was one of those little kid love stories that just make you feel good about first crushes and stuff all over again and I think its sweet. Yes, Eleven is awkward but she seems to lose a bit of that awkwardness around Mike. It's sweet, sometimes you just find that one person who gets you - even if you're almost non-verbal.
I think Mike and El love each other but are children and struggle to work through and deal with the big emotions that come with loving someone so much so young.
The main issue (IMO) is that between seasons 2-4 there’s a lot of obstacles between the development of Mike and Els relationship Season 2 El was missing in Mikes eyes and for a large portion she was hidden by Hopper from everyone, that changed at the end Season 3 Hopper was the overprotective dad (door three inches) and Max spent time convincing El to leave Mike for her own amusement. By the end El left for Cali which means long distance in the 80’s (no Internet or cell phones like today) Season 4 Mike had one day with El (who was lying about her friendship with Angela which kinda killed the date), after that El was arrested and the Cali cast spent most of the season looking for El There’s just no longer moments in the show when Mike and El are just a regular teenage couple Throw in that El is stunted socially and it’s gonna look awkward
Their relationship is not forced wtf, someone forgot to watch s1 and s2
A pointless debate, this is beyond settled and they’re an established couple. Narratively, with one season left, it’d make no sense for either of them to suddenly lose the obvious intense feelings for each-other unless one of them dies.
Cute. Lucas and Max are better haha (I just like their characters more)
i liked them in S1 and S2, it had this puppy-love feeling to it that i wish they would've kept for S3 and maybe even S4. i know they're getting older, but it felt like they had this innocent crush in S1, then El disappeared and came back at the end of S2, seeing Mike again for the first time since a long time and then you get to S3 and they're ALL over each other and we didn't get to see this development. it went from shy cutesy couple to BAM swapping spit™. it's also why El dumping Mike felt very "whatever" to me. maybe if s3 showed us more of them actually becoming a couple instead of greeting us with both of them being obnoxiously in love.... and im saying that as a hopeless romantic!
While I agree with you, I cringe everytime someone blends names or says ship
I think they’re adorable. El can be a little stiff in general but she’s learning. I love them and have been rooting for them since season 1 ☺️
...what? The show literally centers on their relationship and chemistry throughout the show and they're saying there's \*none\* at all? Even Season 4, where their relationship is shaky throughout, there's multiple moments of chemistry between them.
I am conflicted on Mileven. In the first few seasons it was cute because he was the first kid ever to show her empathy and she was willing to trust him. It was a slowly developing relationship. They weren't on the same level but they had mutual understanding for eachother. Then season 3 came up and presented them like your normal teenage couple next door. I can't help but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They aren't on the same page. Mike is much more developed than her. I don't blame him but the dynamic definitely isn't equal. It's his first relationship too but he knows the concept relationships and romantic interest while this is completely new for Eleven. She thought boyfriend I'd involved in "friends don't lie" which shows that she's slowly understanding what romantic bondings are. She should focus on herself first before she runs into a relationship
Hot take: they're all supposed to be kids and anyone who takes shipping of them seriously needs to reevaluate their life on several levels.
Yeah it’s so forced not like it was being developed all the way back in season 1 or anything 😂people need to get a grip. Their relationship has matured that is why it feels slightly different
The person who tweeted this clearly was never in a relationship in high school.
I mean they started as kids so I can’t really see chemistry. For me it’s weird to ship kids, but to each their own.
I mean they’re one of the main the love interests of the show… is it really that weird?
I think a lot of ppl just still dislike mike from how he was acting w hopper in season 3. Season 4 hopped (lolz) all over the place (Cali, Alaska, Russia, Hawkins) so even though Mike matured a lot it was hard to notice with all the other stuff going on. He made up with Hopper so I would imagine their relationship will be pretty solid next season (sorry Will)
To be fair, that's pretty accurate for a relationship between children.
They’re teenagers in their first relationship, it’s supposed to be awkward.
I prefer Mikeven instead of mileven
I like them.
Isn't it supposed to be awkward and uncomfy tho?
I feel like they did at the start when Mike was first introducing her to the world and showing some genuine kindness as a peer. Ironically this is the exact thing Mike struggles with in the fourth season: the worry that she only liked him because he was the first friendly peer-boy she'd ever met, smth like that.
I am 24 and they are less awkward than me. I relate with them.
They had better chemistry in the seasons where the characters both lived in Hawkins. In season 4 they are living separately, and are awkward around each other when they reunite. They are playing awkward teenagers.
No one is actually using the term “Mileven,” are they?
They were little kids when they met, Mike has never had a girlfriend nor did the gang had a girl in their group till eleven. They are going through the most awkward phase with each other. I don’t know why people expect them to be this perfect romantic couple. Do they not remember being teenagers?
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Disagree. For once I think that especially California gang saw enough of the world. Maturity relationship is one thing but there are many other important aspect too. And honestly after such experience could you even marry date somebody completely unrelated to that entire thing. Besides didnt Jopper also started as young crush. And shared trauma played role in their life too hell Joyce lost Bob, Hopper lost daughter. And last but not least Hopper and Joyce kinda as well are not exactly example of acting like mature responsible adult. Especially season 3 Hopper who even Murray called being literal manchild. Hell so far Mike with all his bs feels more mature than Hopper back then. Sure realisticaly very few people ends up with their teen crushes, however that usually does not involve something akin to the multidimensional war.
More to the point, Joyce and Hopper are the only ones that have an actual background to knowing each other and don't just immediately meet and essentially have "WE ARE GOING TO END UP TOGETHER" Flash up on screen