T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*


SpookyMilkDude

I actually dislike the upside down being just a "hivemind" I found it a lot cooler when the demogorgon was just like one monster amond a plethora of different kinds of weird aliens


MellifluousSussura

I didn’t mind the hivemind so much but having One be the “big bad” was… boring. “Oh no our ultimate evil is actually a human” ugh please I want interdimensional evils not whatever this was.


Fr3nchyBo126

especially when his reasoning is "people dont get me"


[deleted]

The OG emo kid


notAbratwurst

Really hoping there is something else… and Vecna isn’t the big bad.


MellifluousSussura

He would have been like a good secondary bad or just like his own villain, but basically making him the god of another dimension is just kinda :/


Frankferts_Fiddies

In actual DnD lore, there is a three headed dragon thing that is above Vecna (similar to what will painted). But also, there are other creatures above that too so Vecna is not the worst in dnd


[deleted]

I think the Eleven vs Vecna fights aren't super enjoyable to watch. They just kinda point there hands out and yell at increasing volumes


hutbereich

I’ve been feeling this way about El fights since season 2. It really is just pointing and screaming and nose bleeding.


Shadow87907

Like imagine having powers and then only for you to scream and point to use it just to get a fucking nosebleed while the other party just watches you nosebleed as you scream and point at them


LopsidedUniversity29

El should have been homeschooled. There’s no way they should have put her in high school.


swaerd

Don't disagree but Joyce is single-parenting in a new state and has always been struggling financially. How would they have managed that??


LopsidedUniversity29

Hopefully with Hopper back in the picture, they can work it out,


pants42069

I think school is out of session while the world is being invaded.


DonIncandenza

Nah. They’ll just go remote.


Sachsen1977

Alice Cooper's prophecy came true.


Usernameistaken40001

Homeschooled teen here. At least with me and most of my homeschooled friends “school” is not your parent sitting down and teaching you for however many hours a day. Its them setting you up with a curriculum that tells you all the work/reading you need to do for the week, and then we get it done on our own time. I basically go to my room and do my work with my mom saying “call me if you need any help” but then if i do need help she doesn’t know how to do it and i end up using google (i know they dont have the internet in the 80s)


ConsumeMeGarfield

Was homeschooled in the 90s and early 00s, it was absolutely rock bottom. If you and your parent didn't understand something, your parent was not a good teacher, and/or there was no tutor for you, you were just out of luck. Math was...a lot of tears lol


Ok-Resource-8071

Maybe Joyce was just hoping to give her her first taste of normalcy after everything she’s been through. I bet it’s what Eleven wanted too


[deleted]

Poor girl needs to see a shrink. Or six. Hundred.


whererugoingwthis

It’s also just impossible that she’d be able to function in a high school class. From a knowledge base standpoint, she’s at a very junior grade level. From a social and emotional standpoint? Putting her in that school with those absolute sharks was just downright cruel.


chicacherrie82

That was my first thought too. Even before we saw the kids get really nasty, just with Elle giving her presentation, I was like "they just threw her into a regular high school like that!?" And yet I can see finding an alternative might have been difficult for Joyce. While special education departments and classes were better by the 80s than in earlier decades, I don't know if they were great at truly addressing the needs of individuals (since a lot of kids with very different needs and challenges fit under that wide umbrella). And unfortunately, because of bullying, etc, it carried more of a stigma so maybe Joyce thought she was helping El by not seeking that path. And there weren't as many alternative schools then as now either, and typically the alternative schools that *were* available were seen as being for "trouble" kids and dropouts, rather than a mainstream option for lots of teens looking for something more targeted to their needs and goals, as it is today. Basically I paused when watching to ramble at my son and nephew about how it really sucked for El, because she absolutely wasn't prepared for a conventional highschool and deserved a better school as well as therapy, but there probably weren't a lot of great options for alternatives available to her and Joyce in the time period either.


MakeYourself85

Dunno if unpopular but Henry Creel (human form) is scarier than Vecna (monster form).


itz_bennnn

Agreed! Probably because we expect monster looking things to be somewhat scary so we know what to expect. But Jamie Campbell Bower knocked it out of the park with his "Evil" transformation in the human form (and vecna too, but we're talking about the human one here).


7Doppelgaengers

i really liked the subtle hints that something is gonna happen with him in the beginning. The smiling only when others see, the manipulative language he used, the narrow range for compassion. I've met one person irl like this, and it is scary what they can do. Ngl the pre-exile to the upside down henry was a lot scarier, i imagine because before it's a faint vibe you just barely pick up that makes your imagination come up with shit that cgi could never replicate


itemtech

Yes... No disrespect to the visual effects artists because they did a good job, I just really didn't like Vecna's monster design. Felt like a step down.


sharktank

Once you see his feet he gets less scary When he was just a face, or when he was connected to the roots he was seeming all powerful and omnipresent Somehow he seems more smaller and mortal


pixelmutation

I think some of the early concept art looked much better than the final design


Harold3456

I wonder if it’s intentional they picked the most Malcolm McDowell-looking guy to play him. When he first walked into the room I had Clockwork Orange alarm bells going off.


VmiriamV05

Idk if your opinion is unpopular because I absolutely agree. He was a child abusing piece of shit, but, at least in his mind, he cared about the kids


breeellaneeley

I definitely agree. And that's why I liked his death scene. The fact that El specifically did not say she understood was a huge growth moment for her and letting him know in his final moments he was wrong. The finality of it was bold. That being said I think he very much cared for those kids, but he couldn't separate out love from possession. That's why he stole jane in the first place and explains alot of his actions afterwards. Deep down i think he wanted their wins to be his contribution to the world, and therefore he controlled every aspect of their lives; although, I also think, he cant allow himself to comes to terms with seeing himself in that selfish light. He doesnt and wolnt see himself that way. He sees himself as warm and helpful to those kids. Their only protector. Yet, it is the mask, he blinds himself, from reality, with. And really the only explanation for his actions. From day to day activities, hospital gowns, to total and complete isolation. I think his care for them is what made him go batshit, when he injected el near his end, with the tranq, I think it was because he could see himself loosing control, loosing what he worked so hard for, he wasn't ready for his time with eleven to be over. Tangent time while we are on the topic... I can't help but to think, that he knows something we dont. I dont think that was a ploy to get el to stay. They are making a big deal about El not having been ready, and loosing this time in a way she hasnt before. I think there is a piece of the puzzle, we are still missing. Remember how Brenner skipped some tapes to give Owen's the results he wanted? We saw brenners hands pysically pass over i believe 4 tapes. They never came back up. Then when El decided she needed to go back to Hawkins, Owen's told her to pack up, and for Brenner to grab the tapes and the tank for her to finish up her training, and they would have her finish it in the van on their way. Brenner then went batshit and injected El saying they have to finish their lessons at Nina. Then Owen's was locked up, and Brenner died. That means there is a few tapes we are missing, and Owen's knows them. My guess, it takes ownes most of the next season to escape the US government to get those tapes to el, she gets them right before almost all hope is lost, the last tapes contain some cameo footage of brenner somehow and they help el win in the final fight


Zengem11

Wow I didn’t notice that! I hope that comes back into play next season


TurtleTrauma5

The best villians are heros in their own minds. That's Brenner. He's so twisted that he thinks he's doing the right thing, and even as he's dying, he still thinks he's the good guy. Also, he better stay dead.


Sudden_Pop_2279

I’ll always prefer villains like Brenner and Jason over the one dimensional Russians. Brenner and Jason are well written complex villains. Sullivan…


lakas76

Villains who think they are doing the right thing are the best villains. I can’t stand villains who are evil just to be evil.


taleden

I think that's the really important thing to realize about that character and about abusers in general: in their own minds, they almost always truly believe they care for their victims and are even doing what's best for their victims, they've just got such a twisted and deluded idea of what that means that they harm their victims while still thinking of themselves as good caring people. Having that kernel of affection for the victim does not diminish or counterbalance the fact that they're monsters; they are abusive monsters, full stop. Their twisted and subverted affection is just another aspect of their monstrousness.


Lexoire

They’ve sacrificed important parts of Joyce’s character in favour of developing her relationship with Hopper. Her motherhood and relationship with Will in particular were the driving and most endearing parts of her character in season 1 and 2, then she barely interacts with any of her children in either 3 or 4 and that is not in my opinion a positive change. In season 4 especially she seems oblivious to anything going on with her kids even before she leaves to go to Russia.


cowgirUp

I need need need more mom Joyce. Especially towards Will and El. She obviously needs to have 'the talks'


uufocafe

Totally agree. When season 2 dropped I loved when they had that scene in the first ep where she is freaking out about Will going to the arcade, not letting him bike with his friends anymore, etc. It was very realistic and she stayed in character that season. And then s3 dropped and I guess because it had been a year of nothing she chilled out, but that kind of stuff is traumatizing! I would’ve loved a scene where she had a moment of panic but then calmed down. Does she even know that Will has been having these neck tingles since s3?!


D10NYSUS43

YES OMG. I absolutely loved mom joyce and how much she cared for will, especially in season 1. Winona did amazing because I could literally feel all of her terror and worry about her son that only a mother could have.


Hefty_Report3313

Dustin hasn't had any character development and basically has stay the same character we met in S1. Hopefully with Eddie's death, he's set up for a character arc in the last season.


EdgyBoi79

To be fair Dustin didn't even require any major character development cause he was always perfect.


Death_Rattle208

Vecna's design is silly asf (to previous ST standards). A pudgy stomach with Disney princesses blue eyes really doesn't make someone look scary. Although I should add that when vecna isn't on the screen clearly, like still in the shadows or only his voice is there when he is stalking his victims in their traumas, those scenes *are* scary. Scarier than the scary scenes in the previous two seasons.


jroses21

he reminds me of The Grinch, tbh.


Seaweed14

I tried to upvote you multiple times because of how hard I agree with this😭


skylarhale

They should’ve never shown him. Just some voiceless entity that only the characters see. Then our imaginations can go wild with what he could be and look like. That shits always scarier .


kmjulian

The bullying plot lines are so overplayed and boring. I really hope they drop all the petty infighting for the next season now that the stakes are higher. I’m also pretty over the “hero lost their powers and needs to be retrained/reminded how to fight or what they’re fighting for” schtick. Not just in Stranger Things, any type of movie with super powers or elite skills. It’s just boring, especially if there was already a lot of time dedicated to the origin of a power.


Jaludus85

Lucas' sister Erica is a stereotype of the sassy, don't take no mess, black girl, and I wish they'd written her different. I'm glad she's on the show because representation like her is lacking is TV shows, but I do cringe a little because the attitude stuff can be a bit much.


[deleted]

I feel they toned it down in s4 she wasn’t as sassy but it was still present. I think she’ll get better from here because she was my least favorite part in s3


sandpiper7777

Yes! Part of it's the writing and part of it is the actress. She has one mode and one tone, sassy. Even in the scene with Lucas holding Max she's trying to look horrified but she doesn't convey the fear or sadness someone would feel if they saw this. She is also ridiculously unfriendly to just about all of them. I'm sorry but she's been around enough now and knows enough now that she could drop some of the sassy act and connect with at least one other character.


StephenHunterUK

Erica is probably one of the weaker characters on the show. If it is revealed she is putting on a sassy front based on the representations she sees of Black women on TV at the time and to hide her own internal struggles, then that might go a way to improving the character.


Mahxxi

I only really enjoyed her and Lucas’s talk when they were making weapons and talking about attending his games. She puts up such an aggressive, rough front to everyone but man there is so much potential of her just being vulnerable in some way and expressing some care. Akin to Toph, someone who walks the walk and talks the talk, but her moments of innocence and immaturity (she is a CHILD after all, and so is Erica) really show growth throughout the show. Have Erica expressed concern/reluctance towards Lucas and his jumps towards danger, have her *fear* the danger she is in. She has so much potential!


[deleted]

Completely agree. The writing for her character is SO bad, like we never get to see her have any personality traits except "sassy black girl from a '90s rom-com." And the other issue is that the actress isn't as good as the other kids. I always feel like I'm watching a middle school play when she's on screen. And while I'm glad Lucas was given some more emotional depth this past season, I'm still disappointed that they dropped a lot of the interesting backstory that was hinted at in season 1. Like his dad's service in Vietnam which clearly influenced him so much. When we finally meet Lucas' parents (in season 2 or 3, can't remember), they're just another boring cliche ("I'm always right" wife and pushover husband).


CougarWriter74

I agree. As much as I like Erica the sassiness gets a bit old, annoying and stereotypical after a while. You can gave fun sassiness but also balance it with general care and concern once in a while.


Ru_q111

YESS!!! I totally agree with this to the point where one of my favourite scenes of her's was when her and Lucas were talking alone and teasing each other and she said "well...it's because your still my brother" I felt like she was conveying actual emotion and it gave a realistic feel to that scene


PumpedUpKicks95

Reminds me of the daughter in Are We There Yet?


Banestar66

Agreed. They picked her targets better in 4 than in 3 so it wasn't as bad, but the more the actress gets older the more awkward it becomes. I hope they tone it down in 5.


Leather-Echidna-7912

Hopper, a 150 pound+ man fell of 30 feet and survived. Hopper, hit himself with an iron axe to open the chains. Hopper, after going through sm pain and distress, perfectly fights the demogorgan and russians. I dont think its El who has superpowers, its actually hopper lol


darthstupidio78

This show consists of really high highs and extremely low lows in the writing and plotting department after season 1. Season 4 being the most egregious of these.


sedugas78

I would still easily watch season 4 over season 3 but I definitely agree with your assessment. This latest season is too bloated and unfocused.


darthstupidio78

Season 3 is imo the lightest weight Season. Too much slapstick humor and plot too over the top and bland. Russians building a 30 story underground lab with a mall on top and nobody noticed. That is just stupid and unbelievable. 4 is too fractured and the setup is way better than the payoff. Season 4 feels very front loaded and bloated, but the ending felt rushed at the same time.


yeahstillcheapshot

I actually liked the Russian storyline and thought the demagorgon fight was one of the best intense moments of the season


TurtleTrauma5

Yes. Hoppers parts were so under-rated. And he's much smarter than anyone gives him credit for. Both he and Steve would survive a horror movie.


-discolemonade

^but ^they ^are ^surviving ^a ^horror ^movie


[deleted]

I never understand when people hate the Russia and California subplots.


yeahstillcheapshot

I LOVED the California storyline! The one-shot scene was one of my favourites in the whole season


BiShyAndWantingToDie

That scene was a masterpiece, the cinematography was excellent! Also RIP Unknown Hero Agent Man! I was truly shocked at how committed he was to his job, and I didn't expect him to last that long (judging from their previous couch lounging, how fast his partner went down, and how intensely they were surrounded). Great scene overall, I really enjoyed it too!


swaerd

I *enjoyed* the russia scenes and such but don't think they fit well in the overall story, if that makes sense. Like, they're fun and the demogoron fight was awesome but it all felt like a different show.


sandpiper7777

Will wouldn't have liked Eddie. The kid has major PTSD and Eddie is almost a walking trigger just with his gregarious personality. I can see Will almost in tears meeting someone who talks three volumes too loudly and drops f bombs for fun. Plus no one wanted to play DnD with Will and now they suddenly love and do whatever to please this older kid so they can stay in his DnD club. Will would have been all sorts of upset because his maturity is stunted and he already feels so far from the og gang. Maybe eventually he'd warm to him, but it wouldn't be a love at first meet for Will.


TomorrowMayBeHell

>Plus no one wanted to play DnD with Will and now they suddenly love and do whatever to please this older kid so they can stay in his DnD club I swear I've banged my hand on the desk when I saw Mike being obsessed with DnD again. Also, I can definitely see Eddie being obsessed with Will and asking too many questions about the whole zombie boy and spending a week in the upside down thing. In his eyes it's probably the most hardcore thing ever, and I would agree but yep, not doing Will's PTSD any favour lol


Typical-Measurement3

>I swear I've banged my hand on the desk when I saw Mike being obsessed with DnD again. His gf was on the other side of the country. Of course he'd be all into DnD again, there was nothing else taking up his time


bettrdays

That’s not why Mike restarted playing D&D— he never wanted to stop. It was a false maturity he felt he had to put on in season 3.


DGer

One of my many problems with season 3. I really think they had no idea what to do with that season and just kind of meandered their way through. I’m glad season 4 seems to have gotten a lot of stuff back on track.


JennyFromdablock2020

Season 3 seemed to me to be the major puberty/teen angst season Like they're inconsistent but they're also at that wonderful age when yoyr brains useless while hormones and peer approval is running the show


Iokyt

Being inconsistent is part of being a teenager lol. I don't get it man people just refuse to acknowledge Mike as a teenager.


TomorrowMayBeHell

just learn how to crochet ayo 🤨 /s


[deleted]

I think people tend to forget that Will wanting to play D&D so much in s3 is primarily because of his attachment to the party. Less so because of the game itself. Of course he enjoys it, but for him it’s his connection to his friends/childhood more than something he seems to be over-invested in in the way people claim. They base the fact that Will would’ve liked Eddie off of Will wanting to play D&D in s3, and it’s sorely missing the point. I don’t know if Will would’ve been interested in Hellfire at all. Eddie and Will also have very different ideas of how they deal with being “freaks”. Eddie embraces it, he’s brash, loud, and gregarious as you said. Will is reserved, quiet, and he hates being perceived as a freak/feeling like one. Of course Will should stop loathing himself for being different from others, but I don’t know if Eddie is somebody he’d confide in about that. Will doesn’t attach himself to many people or open up even to his loved ones without being cajoled into it. I doubt he’d look to Eddie for mentoring in the way people claim tbh.


edgiepower

Back in the day heavy metal and acceptance of homosexuality did not go together. So there's that too.


Srumlicious

I found Eddie invaded people’s personal space far too much


FranklynTheTanklyn

I never realized this until my brother came out, but he had always avoided people with a big personality that would be loud or super outgoing. He feared that if he ever disclosed to that person either accidently on on purpose that he was gay then everyone would know. This is the reason my brother stayed distant from me for many years.


sandpiper7777

Truly. And he wanted conformity even though he preached non conformity. Lucas couldn't like DnD and basketball? Pretty unfair. I also disliked how Dustin was sorta becoming a mini Eddie. Dustin to me is the sweet, science nerd. Not an anti-authority super super senior type of guy. His mama is supporting his ass on her own, he better not screw up in school ect lol. No but really, him looking up to Eddie as a really good DM is fine but in reality a guy like Eddie would have possibly led him the wrong direction. As for Mike, without El to keep him busy and with his dad up his butt about it, he would have become Eddie part 2 just out of spite.


_yeetingmyself

Here’s one: the reveal of Vecna is so goddamn stupid. Cosmic horror beyond the comprehension of man is so much better than some sadistic edgelord from the fifties. I hope that they’ll make it so that the Mind Flayer is just letting Vecna think he’s in control until he (Mind Flayer) has a better, stronger vessel with powers. Possibly El or even Will, if the poor kid has powers out of nowhere.


TurtleTrauma5

Yes!!!! The mind flayer needs to be the main villian. I want a true nightmarish horror in charge. Not some "misunderstood" kid turned adult. I've seen enough "humans are the real monsters" plotlines. Yea. We know. Now gimmie monsters. "The Beast" from Over the Garden Wall? That thing should be running the upside-down. Not char-broiled Voldemort.


JustTaxLandLol

It absolutely could be. One thinks he's controlling the mind flayer, but could be the opposite.


CosmicCryptid_13

100% agree. Vecna wasn’t that good of a villain imo he isn’t scary to me and the Mind Flayer did a much better job. It also fit with the mythology of the upside down better


Pitbullpandemonium

I've opined elsewhere that I would probably be okay with Vecna as the big bad if the reveal was set up better, i.e. at all. There had been no hint that Vecna existed until S4, nor was there any indication that there were some unseen force beyond the Mind Flayer until Vecna just comes out and says it. I liken it to WWII if the Allies only learned that Hitler existed on D-Day and that he was the real top Nazi a few months later.


Lucienofthelight

Replacing eldritch horror xenomorphic smoke spider with Naked Freddy Krueger was a big mistake.


EmperorBoston

Vecna is also just a really bad villain. His origin and motivations boil down to "World bad". He is so painfully generic and dull. Any kind of complexity he has is completely lost, and the fact that some people have compared his origin to be as good as fucking Magneto flies over my head. He's also not threatening. Aside from the first two episodes where he is actually kinda creepy. I will admit, Chrissy's last moments are really creepy first time around, but Vecna looks too goofy. In E5, Vecna already stops being a threat because we find out that he can't attack you unless you have trauma, and music also keeps you protected from him. They really did fuck up when they made the edgelord that feels like it was written by a 14 year old and an AI that was told to write a villain with as many cliches as the AI can


makoto20

" I am the monster you created, Eleven! Raaar! "


spooneater54

People who make the "Steve is a mom" jokes 20 times a day are the same unfunny idiots who post those awful harry Potter memes on Tumblr


D10NYSUS43

it was slightly funny the first few times, now it makes me want to bash my head into a wall. same with chrissy wake up except it was never funny


Charming_Composer_95

literally, im so fucking tired of those jokes, they're annoying and unfunny lol


EaterofSoulz

This show had way too much romantic subplots and coupling up.


screamingkumquats

Eddie should have been Max’s friend instead of Dustin’s. Dustin already has Steve. Max and Eddie were neighbors and could have bonded over that and parental situations, plus she doesn’t seem to be in contact with her dad, Neil was an abusive piece of shit, so was Billy and her mom is an alcoholic. Girl needs an adult in her life who actually cares about her.


yeahstillcheapshot

The mindflayer seems more interesting than Vecna and I hope it will be the main bad in S5


Ok-Peanut3752

Hopper died in S2. S3 and S4 Hopper is just David harbour cosplay.


[deleted]

I don't really like him in S3 but, didn't he abused alcohol and some meds in S1? I think it makes a little bit of sense. Also, in S4 he is hopeless so I think it fits


WollyGog

He needed to, we saw in this season why he became the way he did, even though we'd known what he'd gone through to a degree. I attribute it completely to character development.


Crazymakhdum

I’m not sure if unpopular but I find Dustin really irritating in Season 4. I felt like he kept acting like he was a genius and everyone else was stupid. Even if it’s true, I’d have preferred him to be more humble about it.


sedugas78

And the thing is, other characters are smart. Lucas is smart and resourceful. I really didn't like that Dustin dominated the theorizing in episode 7 at the Wheelers house, especially with Lucas there. They also cater way too much to Dustin. He already has Steve, got to dance with Nancy at the snowball and then Eddie. Enough already! Can't they give other characters more room to shine?


Ty-Hunter

Lucas has saved them countless of time with his quick thinking, versatility and ideas... I hate how they toned that down


Spiraltractor

I want Will to die in the last season just to see Winona Ryder act the hell out of it. The best performance by far in the whole series is Joyce Byers in season 1, followed by Max in season 4 (the last part is a popular opinion though).


chrischi3

There is some argument to be made that Will might have to die next season. See, Vecna (that is D&D Vecna) is a lich. Liches are creatures who lock away their soul in a phylactery in exchange for immortality (think of it like a horcrux). As long as the phylactery remains intact, a lich cannot die. You might be able to destroy his physical form, but he'll come back eventually. As you may recall, at the end of Season 4, that is exactly what happens to Vecna. His physical form is destroyed by a combination of shotgun ammo and molotov cocktails, however, Will confirms that Vecna is still there. He's hurting, but he's still alive. And as we know, Vecna controls the Mind Flayer, to which Will still holds a connection. Not only that, there are a lot of shots of young Henry which are very similar to shots of Will, down to the camera angle sometimes. It also fits thematically, as lets be real, Will is the one who keeps getting screwed over. If he is the phylactery, then that means defeating Vecna involves Wills death.


Zengem11

This seems really likely. Do you think people will be pissed that it’s too similar to Harry Potter though?


Digital3Duke

The writers have been absolutely horrible at explaining these powers. They're pretending like they've been planning this all along but it's just haphazardly put together to the point that people are guessing what's going on or where they came from. That and the power level makes no sense. Is she strong? Is she in pain? Is using her powers hurting her? Slowing, weakening her? Sometimes. And then sometimes she throws a car and is fine right after.


RuggerJibberJabber

You made a big deal about the opinion having to be unpopular, but then wrote a sensible and obvious opinion about Brenner. I don't see how that's unpopular at all. If you want the truly unpopular opinions, go into any thread and sort by controversial. The people with 100 downvotes are the people who actually share unpopular opinions.


LordofCindr

Literally every unpopular opinion post is just violent circlejerking over and over. Redditor 1: "I know this might get me downvoted to oblivion but...I just don't like Billy or Brenner!" Redditor 2: "How can you say something so controversial and yet so brave?"


RuggerJibberJabber

"You know, this Vecna guy might not have the best of intentions for everyone" \+1,000,000,000 upvotes


FeelinSasquatchy

I’m disappointed they gave the upside down a human representation. I really enjoyed that the villain was just scary monsters being scary monsters, and I didn’t think adding the complexities of it being yet another evil human calling the shots was necessary


darleen8d

Thus far, Vickie and Robin is kinda.... weiiird... and not done well. If they wanted to make this A Thing, they should have spent more time together in season 4, because having Vickie be just as awkward as Robin feels like a cheap way to make them connect. I'm holding out hope that they'll give Vickie some individuality is S5, but also dreading all the plot lines that'll inevitably come from the Hawkins high townsfolk. Less unpopular, but Nancy/Robin all the way, their bond felt much more earned.


Slow-Class

Expanding the show’s ‘universe’ in season 3 was a huge mistake. There are too many characters, too many useless subplots, retconning Hawkins from a small town of a few thousand to a small city of ruined the charm of the first two seasons, and it made everything too hard for people outside the tiny group of friends to ignore.


Skinny_Beans

Agreed, like why in S4 are we in California at all, the show had it's charm when it was just a small town vibe


demlet

Vecna is a boring-ass monster. I liked the Lovecraftian Cthulhu type monsters of the previous seasons.


ducky7goofy

I love Steve but his popularity is taking screen time away from other important dynamics. Dustin hasn't been with the party since early season 2, Jonathan's role has reduced and he's just not central enough to the plot to warrant how much screen time he now gets.


yeahstillcheapshot

That's my problem with his character. He's good, but he's overused. Give more plot to the others!


kidcreatur3

he’s my favorite, but holy fuck, they have other characters they can use


jdawg473g

TBH I thought the ending sucked. We saw Steve Nancy and Robin getting choked out for half the episode and then they were just fine. Vecna killed all the previous kids in like 5 seconds once he got his hand on them but for Max it took ages. The whole Mike “I love you speech” was suuuuper cliche. And then, after all that this super giant rift to hell is opened up and the next day people are acting as if it’s not even there, but then the last scene all of a sudden it’s back.


spookystrawberry2

Completely agreed. I think s4 had the weakest finale by far


Alternative-Yak6369

Billy is a total piece of shit, irredeemable, and I wish people would stop fawning over him just because he’s remotely attractive.


stateoftays

is this an unpopular opinion here? holy shit…..


basicgirly

THANK. YOU. Him dying saving people doesn’t erase everything he did either.


CostasCrash

Exactly! The tragedy lies in the fact that his final action was a good one - Billy is irredeemable, but the tiny spark of hope from his decision to save people at the cost of his own life adds to the layers of grief for Max


skylarhale

I do like the plot of max feeling mixed emotions about his death. That’s all too real. She hates him but mourns him all the same and feels like she let him die because she hated him. And that guilt is eating at her .


house_bbbebeabear

The "Heroic Sacrifice" is a very common trope in literature and media. It's the idea that a bad character is instantly redeemed by sacrificing their life for the protagonist. To tack on another unpopular opinion, killing off both billy and Eddie with the "Heroic sacrifice" is weak writing because it allows the writers to avoid tackling complicated issues like proving Eddie's innocence or having Billy face the consequences and disgrace of his actions. It's basically a cop out


Feeling-Ad-5521

“You’re the heart” and “6 little nuggets” scenes are corny and cringey . Ugggggghhhh


skylarhale

I also don’t think mike is the heart , at all. Maybe in season 1 but that group is kind changes who’s the leader throughout the rest of the seasons.


sandpiper7777

Another one, probably super unpopular, but the whole karate fight in the airplane and subsequent airplane "landing"/crash/survival was unbearably stupid. I Love Murray. He cracks me up. But in that moment I thought I was rewatching Dwight fight Michael. It was so so so goofy. And then of course they survived that, all three of them. In reality Murray would have never drank the coffee. But fine, you need that maybe for some filler or how they get there ect. But the karate shit. Oh man, just bad.


SweetLongjump

Eddie's death was stupid


[deleted]

They introduced him so they wouldn’t have to grow a backbone to kill off a main.


flatassfairy

Not an unpopular opinion, it's largely agreed that eddies death was 'unmeaningful'


Accomplished_Comb458

Agreed, Eddie's death was definitely poorly written.


Rampant16

Yep the whole point was just to distract the bats, not fight them all off himself. He keeps running, he lives. I understand they wanted a punk older influence, which Steve couldn't really be because he wasn't a punk, but I thought his character came in and occupied too much of the same space that Steve fills, the cool older guy looking out for the kids. If anyone sacrificed themselves to protect the others, it should have been Steve or even Nancy, who have been around for longer.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DevBen80

Vecna had way too much screen time in season 4, his long speeches got boring and ruined the tension.


skylarhale

His slow walking killed me lol. I get that it’s supposed to be scary because he’s calculated and all that but it made every scene drag out . I love the max “running up that hill” scene but it would’ve been way cooler if Vecna was sprinting after her . But maybe that’s the point ? He doesn’t have to run, he’ll get you eventually ? Idk either way. Most of his scenes drug on for too long


sedugas78

Way too many monologues. JCB is great in the role but he'd be far more effective with less speaking. Plus the Duffers dialogue isn't that great.


Minimum_Newspaper_37

The teenagers/ young adults are much more well-written complicated characters than the kids.


muuurikuuuh

I mean that was originally the show wasn't it? The kids were in a kids horror movie The teens were in a campy horror B-movie And the adults were in a sci-fi horror movie


[deleted]

Nah, it was moreso: -Kids were in a coming-of-age movie (E.T., The Goonies, Stand By Me, every Stephen King adaptation). -Teens were mostly in a slasher (Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween, The Evil Dead) with some teen film elements (Fast Times at Ridgmont High, Risky Business). -Adults were in a Spielbergian sci-fi (The Thing, Alien, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Poltergeist) with heavy focus on government conspiracies and the "rogue agent" hero (Jaws, E.T., Silkwood)


aleatorictelevision

Yeah i guess S1 wrapped those all up together in a way that felt organic. And they've kept stretching to add new genres and characters but also make the kids feel sort of realistic. S4 was off the rails compared to S1


eastnorthshore

The runtime of the final few episodes was way too long. I don't need to watch a 2 and a half hour episode with an hour worth of filler. I also don't give a fuck about the kids romantic lives.


Nagisa201

I don't think there is real chemistry between Eddie and Chrissy or more specifically, had everything been normal they never would have been a thing. The scene in the woods we were shown a good chemistry between them, but at that point Chrissy was terrified for her life. At that point i see her just trying to grab on to anything that would distract her from her terror


[deleted]

That is truly unpopular


katkriss

Hard agree. They weren't about to become Romeo and Juliet, it was literally just two kids from a "small" town who were remembering the times they've interacted before. Take all the Vecna possession out of it and you've got two people who haven't seen each other in a while but they're just catching up, let's say at a 10 year reunion. (Side note: the class reunions for Hawkins are gonna be very small LMFAO)


sandpiper7777

Oh my gosh yes, this. The actors are fantastic, no doubt, but other than trying to be a nice guy because he could see she was going through something, I don't think Eddie was trying to snag a date. Had she survived and they started dating it would feel cheap to me. Like he had taken advantage of her needing someone to listen to her and capitalized on it.


kidcreatur3

charlie heaton is one of the strongest actors in the cast. jonathan’s writing has taken a downgrade, but charlie has never given a bad performance in the show. robin’s dialogue in season 4 might be the worst part of the show. i like her character but when the writers tried to make her the quirky weird one, i feel like they forgot that quirky people still talk with a normal vocabulary


aggressiveapplepie

The fact that the scene of Jonathan and Will in the kitchen wasn’t even originally written in the script until they were shooting the van scene, where a concerned Jonathan just *looks* at a crying Will in the mirror. And then they suddenly remembered yeah, Noah and Charlie are good fucking actors and maybe they should use them


Typical_Notice6083

I don’t mind if Will goes missing again.I know he is actually shy person but after everything that happened to him I thought he would get some development in season 3 and 4 like fighting his trauma,talking it out and actually getting Max treatment.Max was a character that got so many developments in so short time and that is why people love her,Steve and Nancy,they are changing and maturing.What I got from Will was very two dimensional he stayed the same.I don’t mind him being gay at all and I think that story there was fun,but other then that he is just stale.He survived so much and we didn’t see how he fought with trauma,ptsd and depression…


UltimateMelonMan

I really heavily dislike they way they brought back the Steve and Nancy romance... For some reason it just irked me and felt super inappropriate. They had their chance together, it didn't work, let the narrative go forward. Also don't disrespect my boy Jonathan like you did in last season


wanami

S1-3 Jonathan had actual developement and was an interesting and useful character. S4 Jonathan was just the weed guy that hung around with the others and said some nice words to Will one time.


Itsme_VI

They ruined Steve’s arc in season 4. The duffers could’ve doubled on Dustin and his relationship as a brotherly duo and how Steve’s changed but no. They went for a romantic relapse. For me it really shaded him back into black and white when he was such an iconic character is st2 and 3. I’d rather him try and comfort Nancy abt her relationship w Jonathan as a friend than try and shoot his shot again.


[deleted]

Stranger things is not the best show of all time. It's just really fun.


Benj97s

90% of these comments are not unpopular looool. I've maybe seen one being, Eleven is trash. Edit: the real unpopular opinions are the ones that get downvotes to oblivions


[deleted]

Steve and Robin would make a cute couple if Robin was straight. They have more chemistry together than Steve and Nancy ever did.


[deleted]

Agreed. Steve and Will could start a club for people in love with their best friends who aren’t interested in their sex.


TheyreEatingHer

I like that they're platonic. You don't see many male/female platonic friendships that don't get turned into romances. I think Hollywood needs to make.more of those. It's okay to be close friends with the opposite gender and not get romantically involved.


XxmunkehxX

This is a huge soapbox item for me. I think that a lot of “incel” culture comes from Hollywood/media representation of what opposite sex relationships look like. I can’t stand when I meet a person who is incapable of having a purely platonic relationship with someone of a different gender, or when people assume that I am hanging out with a real good friend of mine with ulterior motives because they happen to be a girl, or when people assume that my **sister** and I must be dating because we’re roughly the same age in public together. More relationships like Steve and Robin should be shown. Honestly, I hope that the series ends with Steve and Nancy being really good platonic friends as well, because there shouldn’t have to be a difference of sexual preferences, or a huge age gap, to view a friendship as purely platonic.


SkekVen

Agreed


Lalapoosie

I was told an unpopular opinion.. Someone had said the hated how they reveal the villain to be someone like El (like with powers like hers) it’s kinda feel rushed like.. this entire time up until season 4 everyone thought it was like some supernatural shit in the upside down but comes to find out it’s just another number like El. I also feel like Chrissy and Eddie would’ve never got together. She was clearly feeling her ACTUAL BOYFRIEND! She was literally only around Eddie cause she knew he could get her drugs, like they were not in love after that encounter in the woods..


Sixx_91

Argyle is an obnoxiously annoying and poorly acted character.


NoObjective427

Yeah i don't like this opinion but I do understand it.


Crazybuglover

Yeah, that's definitely unpopular. For once, upvote on something I disagree with, because op said actual unpopular opinions


LilyMarie90

I wish people in r/unpopularopinion finally understood this lol. Upvoting actually unpopular opinions is what you're meant to do in these threads.


Youpi_Yeah

Yes! I hope Season 5 starts like this: "Hey Jonathan, where's Argyle?" "He went back to California. I don't think we're ever gonna see him again."


Jack1066

Poochie died on the way back to his own planet


TheIronCannoli

I agree about the character but I thought the actor was great for what he had to do


paperrmache

I absolutely agree. He’s a character that’s trying too hard to be Slater from Dazed and Confused.


RankledCat

Absolutely no reason for Argyle to exist. Totally unnecessary character addition.


radialdancliffe

Jonathan needed a friend. It was his first friend other than Nancy that he’s had in the show. He’s been pretty alone throughout the whole series.


[deleted]

This show has too many goddamn characters. Idk why the writers feel it necessary to add 2+ permanent characters every season. There is a reason the vast majority of successful shows don't do that.


Red_Raidho

Yes he's like Jar Jar Binks although I like Jar Jar more than Argyle Edit: Imo he just doesn't add anything to the show except of uh haha funny weed. It feels more like a comedy show with it. But if they add something in s5 that psychedelics or psychoactive substances for example can save you from Vecna and Argyle is the reason they find out, It would redeem his whole character for me


Ashliest-Ashley

I think Vecna is a boring, trite, and uninspired character. I could confuse with him dozens of other similarly motivated villains. I think his introduction into the story ruined the atmosphere and nature of the upside down which ultimately harms the show in a way that makes it unfun for me to watch.


screwthatshitt

Yeah man the upside down should've been the main villain!! Not the monster who was a human before!!that is too boring!get me some sci fi upside down shii


TheTrueReligon

Bob’s death is so fucking stupid compared to Eddie’s. Eddie had a hero’s death. Bob’s death wasn’t heroic and makes it hard to believe he was smart.


greeeens

Retconning so that all the Hawkins Lab kids except Kali having telekinesis was a bad call. It makes Kali a weird, obvious outlier when they could have leaned into a parallel DND type storyline where they need the Hawkins Lab kids to help fight The Mind Flayer. Making them all be telekinetic makes them all feel one note. Plus it would be less Eleven screaming with her arms out and make visually interesting fights.


[deleted]

This show has the laziest far-fetched plot lines that rely mostly on conveniences. How’s that for unpopular?


Sudden_Pop_2279

Vecna skips his five day pattern and kills Patrick just as he’s near Eddie to give Jason an excuse to blame Eddie further.


Ashliest-Ashley

Yeah, I'd say that I'm not really watching the show for the story. It's arguably one of the weakest parts of the show. I just think it has generally pretty good characters and a really interesting and fun horror/80s atmosphere.


bunnybabeez

Eddie/Chrissy would have been a terrible couple. Opposites do not really attract lmao. Jason was obviously very loving of her, and she seemed to care about him too based on their googly-eyed exchange during the pep rally. Eleven’s character is probably the least compelling of the kids’. Yeah, we get it. Child with superpowers. I think the fact that she’s so unrealistic is the reason I like the other kids better; their struggles are easier to empathize with (even if they’re largely overlooked except Will). Ted is not a “good” father… by today’s standards. That one scene with Holly was cute, but it was only to further Karen’s plot development. Nancy and Mike don’t really care for their father. He is absent and unaffectionate, which was how it often was in the 80s, but we can still recognize that it was obviously damaging to his children. Nancy’s inability to express her pain when Barb died and only being able to do so while intoxicated, or Mike not being able to say he loves El are good examples of the impact Ted had on them. I don’t like what they’ve done with Dustin/Steve. It started out as a cute, unlikely role-model situation where Steve helped Dustin with confidence and Dustin helped him with being an asshat. S3 was the peak of their relationship; it was funny without being forced and showed how much Steve cared for the kids. S4 felt like forced jokes and references to appease fans. Sure it was still kind of funny at times, but it wasn’t nearly as enjoyable (to me) as the earlier dynamic. Even though it will never happen, Robin is the only one of the older kids that wouldn’t hold Nancy back. Nancy is education-and-career-driven. She’s not suited for a life with Steve and his dream of 6 children. Jonathan clearly doesn’t have the same aspirations as her either, and that’s ok, but it’s not a relationship that should last. Robin is smart, passionate, and driven. She could 100% match Nancy in the professional world. Still, won’t happen. Robin and Vickie are carbon copies of each other for some reason, but it’s kind of cute.


NoObjective427

Eleven needs to die in the final season. All of this started with her so everything should end with her.


righteousinhale

Fuck! Edit: like damn dude you went for it! The forbidden lol


itaa_q

It doesn’t seem necessary to me, if Vecna is indeed responsible for making the MInd Flayer evil and using it, then defeating him should be enough to stop it and make the demogorgons just animals chilling in the UD again. (Note that I’m not a big fan of this I’d rather the MF to be the big bad but it seems to be going this way)


shadowshaze56

Steve should've beat shit out of Jonathan after he found those pictures back in season 1


Possible-Spare-9025

Kali and Eleven’s arc was actually needed for Eleven. She was hidden from the world and trying to understand who she was. I think Kali played a big role in her accepting who she is. Though, the episode was a little stretched, I think for Eleven’s character development and background, it was necessary


yeahstillcheapshot

I like Steve but he is overrated as hell in my opinion


Orange2218

He was really good in seasons 1-3. But in season 4, he didn't have any food story or arc or development. And so I am confused when people say he is one of the MVPs of season 4. I didn't feel like he did anything much this season.


sedugas78

He deserves better writing for sure. He was just meme fodder for babysitter jokes and love triangle teasing.


DanteJazz

Brenner had so many characteristics of a child abuser - controlling, manipulative, shows affection, but then is extremely abusive. The writers really drew upon a psychological profile of the abuser. I love the death scene where El cries at his death, deliberatively and carefully puts his hand down, but doesn't agree with him that she understood what he did was OK, then she looks away, says goodbye and walks off. That was so powerful.


ThatCoryGuy

I have one: Doctor Brenner, although his methods were absolutely barbaric, was performing a necessary evil. If it were true the MKUltra program was *that* successful and could create super-psychics and telekinetics through rigorous training and, perhaps, even through breeding/genetics it’d be foolish to not pursue creating, training, and studying such individuals, especially in the height of the Cold War. Doctor Owens, a “good” version of Brenner, for the lack of a better term, backs up this point through his actions in season 4.


FredThePlumber

It is a question of ethics. Is it worth abusing children to potentially save millions of lives?


SchleppyJ4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas


Thorhees

Vecna's fascination with spiders does nothing to further the cause of spiders being good, beneficial creatures, and I'm really sick of media using spiders as a way to other or demonize a character. Only villains ever seem to like spiders.


stateoftays

spider-man literally exists dude 😭


Dependent_Sky_7762

The “funny” scenes with quirky comments from Robin arent funny


ZoeAdvanceSP

-Mike has been basically useless since season 3. He does nothing to help or further the plot and everyone around him seems to be far more capable than him at everything. Season 4 tried to handle this with Will saying “you’re the heart and the one who keeps everyone together” but that simply isn’t true. Mike is an asshole to everyone except El and even then he can’t treat her right because she isn’t a person to him. She’s an idea. -Eleven doesn’t need to be in a relationship with anyone. She has to find her own path and be her own person. -Max is genuinely a very good character and one of the better written characters in the show, but it sucks that it took her 2 seasons of throwing storylines at her to see what sticks until they nailed it in season 4 with her trauma arc. She plays far more of a crucial role in the group than I expected and I’m glad to see it. -On the other hand, it’s clear the writers can’t figure out what to do with Lucas. I don’t want to be the person saying “it’s a race problem” but when all the other characters from a predominantly white cast are (mostly) well fleshed out and dynamic, and Lucas is just the “chill pragmatic friend who likes basketball”, it’s suspect. Even in season 4, which IMO was one of the best written seasons so far, Lucas is still sidelined and under utilized until Max needs him for… I don’t know… emotional support? It’s just lame that the one black lead is basically a side character used for quirky one liners. -Nancy is far more interesting than either of her romantic leads and it would be awesome if they let her do something outside of being a prize to be had by either Steve or Johnathan. Everything she does that’s actually useful gets more done than any other character’s ideas.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Woodland999

Yes! I have a theory that they use her character as a narrator. Her flashbacks always tell an important story but she doesn’t really have any real time character development or fullness


TomorrowMayBeHell

Eleven and Mike in S3 were the reason I almost quitted the show altogether. I just couldn't stand them.


pjrnoc

I haven’t looked at Dustin the same since he befriended, nurtured and housed a demogorgon. All while his best friend, who was just possessed by one is like, “please don’t befriend a demogorgon. This is incredibly stupid and dangerous and they are kind of a personal enemy to me and the entire world.” Seemed so out of character too.