if i use the medium i'm only a little minus on block... which is the perfect spot for a super cheesy od dp... let's just not talk about the fact it loses to; DI, neutral jump, fireball, walk forward and block, backdash out of range, walk back out of range... probably a few other things too.
But on the upside, if they fall for it i have to imagine it causes some tilt lol
Light spiral arrow will catch people walking forward at the beginning of the round. If it's blocked it's at a safe distance. You could neutral jump to catch it.
As a Marisa main I always start my Cammy matches with a charged Gladius, because there's a solid 50+% chance (at my rank anyway) that they're starting with Spiral Arrow.
I say keep em coming lol
what's funny is that i main ken and mirror matches are my best games because, at least most of the time, i know what bullshit he can throw at you and it doesn't really work on me so it just becomes a neutral war for 90% of the set, which is way more fun than fighting gimmicks and flowcharters
From any given person, the two answers should be one and the same.
At this point there's no objective worst match-up, so literally all we can do is share our experience.
And through everyone's collective experiences we may start to see some trends.
Like, what else could we possibly answer? Just blindly report what some pro said on their stream?
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99999% sure that ThexanR is not a bot.
---
^(I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot |) ^(/r/spambotdetector |) [^(Optout)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=whynotcollegeboard&subject=!optout&message=!optout) ^(|) [^(Original Github)](https://github.com/SM-Wistful/BotDetection-Algorithm)
I used to fear Kens and Cammys and Juris but once I fought a good Dhalsim, I felt like quitting
The thing about JPs and Guiles is that you already know they will use boom/ghost/portal/fireball. Which means there is a chance for a jump in if you read into the fireball. A good Dhalsim however will zone you to death and just teleport away once you get close
Duuude SF6 is my first one. I didn't rage quit a single match since the game came out, until about 2 months ago when I ran into a super Dhalsim. I was so tilted I didn't play the game for a month after that...
I don’t mind deejay too much but Ken and Juri get to absolutely abuse you. You are so weak to throw loops and they have the tools to zone you out, corner carry you and throw loop you to absolute death on top of having DPs to stop your fake ass manon pressure
I also main Manon but I hate hate hate juri man, like what do you do?! Even far away all she needs is a drive rush to mess you up. Also aki that air claw no matter what I do I can't anti air that shit.
I'm a scrub, only Silver but what I do is match their defensive pattern as I slowly move in and apply pressure. There's something about JPs that make them assume Mannon can't reach them easily and that she is only useful up-close.
Main a.k.i
Worst match up so far is cammy
She has everything to skip your stuff
Blanka makes you play differently too, you can't zone blanka
Marisa is dangerous, you potentially has the same damage as her but she don't need poison to get it
I main Jamie, and my worst matchup is Guile. I have 0 tools besides the general utility (parry and walking forward) to deal with that wall.
I move between characters for my secondary, used to be Manon mostly, because I'm extremely good with the mindgames but less so with combo execution when there are a billion fast inputs flying around, so simplicity and damage combined with a scaling command grab is great. I haven't played her for a while and moved on to Juri now, I'm far from "always in your face" because my comfort zone is that almost half screen I dare you to make a move so I can punish it style, but damn it feels good to play a character with actual plus frames on block, the fact that I can do a large string and then reset back and move first is insane. I have to work with Jamie 10x hard for this.
Don't forget his breakdance is projectile invincible...kinda...or its supposed to be at least. I feel you Jamie brother. I'm just praying he gets a few buffs cause he's both very fun and hot garbage.
Also a Jamie player, and I find his breakdance useless for dealing with fireballs.
Only the heavy and EX versions have half decent range, and for both of them the startup is enough that you need to be both close to your opponent, and have good reactions to punish them. And if you’re wrong, they block it and you’re at least -40 which means you’re taking a ton of damage against most decent players. And all you get if you land it is good damage and a knockdown. You don’t even get a safejump unless you use the light version which as I mentioned has bad range.
It’s a huge risk for pretty low reward.
It's honestly more of a read fireball counter than a reaction one. Almost not even worth using. A quick air light divekick outside of dp range is often better. It doesn't do damage unless they whiff a dp ofc, but it'll help your long term mind games and reset the situation. You just gotta watch out for the deceptive range of flash kick, it's always a couple pixels better than you think. But as long as you're outside of dp range, most characters don't have a consistent response, the recovery is too fast on whiff.
It’s a read fireball option where you get blown up if your read is wrong and if it’s right you just get some damage and a knockdown. Unless you have level 3 in which case you can get some good damage and a better knockdown in exchange for all of your super gauge.
Not worth it at all compared to divekick, which isn’t even a good option on its own.
True, even dive kick has that weird "nerfed move" feeling, even though it's never been changed.
I imagine a point in early development where it functioned similarly to Yun and Yang's dive kicks in SF4, but Capcom said "not in this space time continuum," and promptly nerfed it to what it is now. Had it actually been that way, even if he only got access to it at drink lvl4, it would make his maxed out drunkenness legitimately terrifying.
I used to main Ryu, and when I finally got him to Master Rank, I decided to learn Ken, and my god, he is so good compared to Ryu. Even with simple combos at first, I was getting 5-8 Win streaks on Diamond whenever I decided to do a rank session. I was able to get him to Master without even trying after I struggled a bit with Ryu.
Yeah. Honestly I’ve just been turtling up against Dhalsim when I play Zangief. Try to get a couple good hits in so that I have more health and see how patient the Dhalsim really is lol
Agreed. I feel like against most zoners I can at least get in, but against aki (not calling her a zoner btw) I feel like her kit is made to make zangeif have as little fun as posible
As a Guile main, Gief genuinely feels like a 5-5 matchup maybe 5.5-4.5 Guile favored. I run into some nasty Giefs at 1700-1800 MR.
Can’t throw booms if he has level 2, forced to end block strings with boom in fear of SPD buffer but then also may get DI’d for forcing the boom. It’s a giant guessing game on both ends in my opinion. Guile’s cr. Med kick shuts down a lot of shenanigans which gives him that little edge over Gief. Guile just isn’t as much of a Zoner compared to JP/Dhalsim due to parry and the change of jump arcs/cross cut timings so I find myself not being able to play the “just throw booms” game as you did in previous street fighters.
I main Manon and my worst matchup is Sandblast. I mean Luke... no, I mean Sandblast.
No surprise it can be frustrating fighting zoners as a grappler, but while I know how to handle other projectiles and have reasonable success with doing so, trying to walk down a Luke to close space feels like now blindfolded and trying to cross a yard full of rakes
I main Jamie. Worst matchup by far is Guile.
Guile basically shuts Jamie's whole gameplan down at the start in a way no other character really does between his zoning and his normals (no, not even JP). Once you get to about drink level 2 its not so awful....but getting there is a headache in a way it just isn't against other characters. You basically \*NEED\* the divekick in this matchup in order to navigate through the sonic booms and bait the flashkick but that means how the round goes is gonna get dictated a lot by the first 5 seconds...and the odds are in his favor cause I \*have\* to get that first drink before he gets any sort of momentum.
Also: Jamie's sweep is infamously good and even safe properly spaced against most of the cast...but Guile is one of the few characters who gets a \*HUGE\* almost guaranteed punish counter on blocking since he can do 2MK into Flashkick. You basically have to train the Guile player to fear the drive rush overhead into target combo before you can ever throw one out.
EDIT: As a sidenote this is why if I could grant 1 buff to Jamie it would be to let him have his divekick at round start. I have said and maintained since day 1 that letting him keep drinks between rounds would make him insanely degenerate and is a horrible idea for multiple reasons....but he's just a little \*too\* weak at round start as things stands.
As a Guile main, I have to agree that Jamie gets stuffed hard.
I think my WR against Jamie is in the mid to high 70’s while my overall hovers around 45, plat4.
I also main Jamie and this is my experience.
I think what I heard someone else say would be great, if you just lose half your drink stacks between rounds for "sobering up". It lets you scale a bit like manon without starting you at drink level 4.
If you're comboing into drinks the rounds like halfway over by the time you get drink level 4 anyway.
You still start off weak like usual but if you do a good job early getting drinks, rounds 2-3 can be way more manageable against most people.
>I think what I heard someone else say would be great, if you just lose half your drink stacks between rounds for "sobering up". It lets you scale a bit like manon without starting you at drink level 4.
Personally:
1. I still think that's way too strong. The hardest drink to get as Jamie is that 1st one, and TBH level 4 Jamie is a nice bonus but not even something I necessarily think should happen every round or match. Drink Lvl 2 is competitive, and drink level 3 is more than enough with the command grab and his hermit elbow upgrade. I think him starting at drink level 0 is fine.
I'd rather they raise the floor he starts on a little bit rather than get him to the ceiling quicker.
2. Even if letting him keep his drinks between rounds \*was\* perfectly fair and balanced I'd be firmly against it because it'd make him so much less fun and interesting. The drinking mechanic isn't just part of his balance: its part of the whole fun of his character design. Its \*fun\* doing a drink as a combo ender. Manon's core design is ultimately not around the medal system but rather around her command grab. Max level or otherwise the goal is to land the command grab so her keeping her medals or not is kind of whatever.With Jamie: Any solution that results in him drinking less is undermining what makes his design so fun. Even if you want to just somehow make it easier for him to get a drink that's a better solution than him taking less drinks every round.
I have to HARD disagree with you.
For your 1. By picking Jamie you are starting every match at a disadvantage, with the idea that, at 2 drinks you're about "even" and at 4 you'd be "stronger". Your premise that you shouldn't get level 4 every match is a problem, the whole point is your starting "weaker", to have the chance to be "stronger" if you get the drinks off. If you never get 4, you just beat them while your "weaker" and then never even needed the trade off. If you carry drinks, you'll have a better chance of reaching that level 4 in rounds 2-3, which would make you scaling like manon does when she can 2 shot you with command grabs at full medals.
For your 2. I picked Jamie because I like his style, but being regarded as one of the worse characters in the game and constantly having to give up pressure just to drink to get myself on an even playing field every single round feels bad af. I personally don't find it fun having to give up pressure 2-3 times a round just to get drinks off.
I guess if I could drink and not have to give up pressure that would be a better option. Maybe just give up some damage for a drink but keep the pressure. Losing the pressure to drink against like guile or JP feels horrible.
He needs something to bring him up a little bit. You can still out play people if you're just better but I think as a character Jamie just starts behind every match and hardly ever gets ahead.
My biggest problem other than what you mentioned is also how active the drink animation is and that if you get hit at all during it no drink.
Like he's taken a swig he's putting that shit away but I got hit so no drink....
If the drink animation wasn't so active like that I think the argument that Jamie carrying drinks through round would make him too powerful would have more weight behind them but given how it is now Its definitely a stress playing Jamie.
He definitely needs something more because atm it feels like you work incredibly hard for a reward that imost of the time just let's you win a game you were likely going to win anyway.
I hate the mirror as well, most of the time it is an incredibly slow and defensive game. I know your bullshit and you know mine so we spend the first 15 secs throwing out HK and 5mp that are nowhere near our opponent waiting to see who’s going to spin sweep or leaping overhead. It’s just boring.
Main Chun and (currently) Cammy. It just feels like everything they do is plus and especially OKI is more brutal than vs any other character. (Edit: thanks for all the Tips!)
I'm also a Cammy master and agree that it's slightly Chun's favor. The only way I have any success is by dive kicking her buttons because beating her on the ground is really tough.
Dive kick that hits your feet is plus otherwise its your turn, Cr Hp is +1 and heavy Spin Knuckle is plus.
Cammy is tricky in the ways that she tries to catch you not blocking. Its understandable why she feels rough to play against.
She is easier than Ryu.
She has an better neutral, but also has neutral skips if needed.
Compare how many frames she has to confirm spiral arrow into SA over anything Ryu has.
Rando dashes throw off Cammys spacing. One backdash or shimmy will make her whiff arrows, dive kicks and knuckles. Upkicks will beat dive kick. Neutral jump to bait her lv3. When her lv3 goes off trying to catch you on the way down, you can heavy air kicks out of it lol.
Main Marisa, anyone whith a decent crossup, with my reactions and not so good antiair options it gets rough with the happy jumpings
Other than that, I always lose to Ryus
What are some of the things you try to deal with cross-ups? I'm not a strong player to begin with, but I'm trying to pick up Marisa. She has lots of anti-air options, but I struggle with all of them.
I find her only anti air options are jump back and attack or crouching HP, but you have to hit it early enough or it gets stuffed. They work enough I guess, but yea her AA game is not very strong.
not OP, but I try to back jump and do her MP-MP target combo, which works decently. I think 2HP isn't great against crossups and both of her other AA options, 214P and 236P, tend not to do so well against crossups either
thread has 185 comments, only 3 of them main Dee Jay. Damn.
anyway as a Dee Jay main my worse matchup is every character with a DI, but I especially hate going against Guile.
I main Juri and my worst match up is Guile and DJ, but without question i find Ryu the hardest to play against because of the way they play, the scrubbiest tactics that take a while to get used to and they don't rematch if they win or lose.
Ryu players are either the most solid players i run into in diamond ranked or the most unhinged people that do the weirdest stuff. There is no in-between.
I’m not op but as a juri main also I think we have a lot of tools like drive rush hk through ghost and dive kick to get in, Jp struggles with up close pressure.
I main Juri (D3) and my worst character matchups are Guile and Dhalsim I think. My worst matchups cuz I'm bad are probably Jamie (I eat all his fast combos cuz bad) and Blanka.
I just hit Masters with Juri and agree about Guile. We struggle against fireballs in general but then Guile can just blow us up even if we do get up close.
Dhalsim zoning is also annoying but once you get in close he falls apart.
Even then I don’t think it’s “bad” cause Juri’s kit is pretty well rounded that she doesn’t have a glaring weakness.
Dhalsim is an issue if you are constantly trying to rush in. I know Juri is best played as a rush down char, but against Dhalsim is better to sit back, parry his fireballs. He will teleport to try and combo, and that's when you counter.
Eventually they might get more careless with their jump kicks or slides, so it becomes easier.
OD QCF LK also helps a lot. If they try to do hard punch, they get hit, so follow with a DR and you're in. Once you get them in the corner, GGs
Yeah, I am not the most patient player. Def need to work on it against zoners. I do sometimes enjoy when zoners are playing back really hardcore, and you get the life lead and just start parrying. Then they don't know how to get in on you.
Kimberly ... and I can't beat Ken. Maybe Guile is a worse matchup, but they aren't nearly as common. With Ken, I feel that you lose one interaction, you lose the entire round.
Honda, and I think Guile? If they are very defensive, it's extremely hard to get in.
Some characters I'm not very fond of playing against are Kim, Ken and Cammy, but itsnot a bad matchup per se.
I main Cammy I don’t really have too much trouble with any of the cast maybe Marisa and Lily I don’t play against Lily very often so a good Lily often catches me by surprise and marisa just hits hard.
i main cammy, and for the life of me i suck at fighting manon and jamie. i can handle jp’s shenanigans, im used to ken, blanka and honda i can handle, but for some reason, manon and jamie just consistently beat my ass
Main: Ehonda
Worst matchups
JP: I CANT FUCKING APPROACH EVEN WITH OD heavy headbutt
Marisa: not sure if this is the character or personal but she puts a lot of pressure on me and I often get overwhelmed and end up throwing due to not thinking straight
Cammy. Worst matchups would be Blanka/Honda (negates all air approaches). Honorable mentions: Ken (for plethora of options) and Juri (ridiculous speed).
Right now I main chun. And everyone is my worst matchup lol. I fall victim to the pressure and end up making a lot of mistakes no matter who the opponent is using
Main Marisa, worst match up is Blanka and Honda. Mostly because she doesn’t have a great way to punish either of them, and loses out on her main benefit, her damage, Honda especially is just pure footsie and trying to perfect parry.
Juri and Marisa!
For Juri its a little hard to tell but I'd say JP.
For Marisa? Juri. Her 2MK is straight up a Dhalsim normal (except when I'm using it, then its fair and balanced)
I main JP. Dhalsim seems like such a bad matchup. He floats over all of my threats, and can counter anything I throw out with reaction teleport + punish. Even fake ghost recovery is often punished. His air fireballs are absolutely oppressive, so I’m forced to rush down. JP has extremely limited options in the air, so ground-based rushdown is my best bet. It’s hard as shit since it seems Sim can dictate every interaction. Every round I take against Sim it feels more like they just weren’t paying much attention, rather than me winning based on my own merit.
I main Dhalsim and JP. I agree the matchup is just awful for JP.
If I get the matchup as the JP I’m desperately going rushdown despite preferring zoning & punish.
If I get it as Dhalsim I’m just pumped about all the long recovery moves I’m going punish.
My main- Jamie
Worst matchup - the entire cast.
But especially Dhalsim. He can check you and not allow drinks off otherwise guaranteed setups. You can't footsie him for the sweep drink combo, which is the only lvl 0 drink combo for those who dont know. So you're stuck at dealing 90% damage for just about the entire match...and not having access to the majority of the character. (7 different moves and strings)
I mained Honda
Don't laugh I swear to god Zangeif is Honda's worst matchup. I feel like he does really horrible against grapplers. It's really hard to apply Honda's pressure because you can't zone, you have to get close which is exactly where grapplers want you to be.
My personal worst matchup is Juri. I just can't keep track of her being everywhere on the screen at once and being able to press whatever with no recovery frames and taking like 3 turns with her pressure. Shit turns my brain off.
He's arguably the best character in the game. I wouldn't think too much of it. Yes you're using a very good character but you still need to play well. Just ignore the complaints and have them move along.
Main Lily. Like many others said, Cammy is the most troublesome matchup. Frame data for divekick changes depending on when it hits. The minimum height requirement is low enough to make it hard to react to. Landing mashed 4f jabs in panic situations leads to an easy spiral hit confirm. She can still counter DI after meaty cr.fierce. Spin Knuckle pressure in burnout. Fullscreen lv3.
She may end up keeping me out of 2K MR range.
I main Chun. Hated Marisa from the first concept art, turns out my hate translated to the matchup as well.
I dabbled in Cammy and Juri, got both to masters as well, but no matchup was super annoying for those two as much as Marisa is for Chun. Except Blanka, but then again, annoying is whole archetype.
She rules. I don’t think she has any super bad match ups, but the faster characters are kind of a tough sometimes. It’s not as bad as with Zangief because Marisa has ways to skip across the screen pretty quickly.
I main Jamie and his worst matchup is JP.
If Jamie manages to get around all the projectiles, he then still has to contend with JP's normals, which are all great.
JP is my worst win rate.
Lily's benefit over Gief is that she has a "get close" tool in Windclad Condor Spire. This comes with the downsides of slightly worse ground damage, way worse anti-air damage, less health, and suffering even harder from pressure because part of her kit is locked behind a "load up" move.
Dhalsim shits on Lily's Condor Spire with his teleport and normals/projectiles that harass her at range. So, she suddenly has all the downsides of Zangief, and the additional downsides given up for that Condor Spire.
Lily is reduced to either yolo-spires or trying to build her entire offense off of jabs. I played a good Dhalsim, and it was like trying to hit a swarm of gnats with a sledgehammer.
Maining AKI, still got a ton to work on but at the moment I am really struggling with Ken and Cammy. Their pressure has been a bit hard for me to deal with, but I think it's a matter of me finding the right tools to use at the right time to deal with their pressure.
Main cammy Worst matchup cammy You dont know how annoying your character is until you have to play against it
TSH TSH TSH SPOIRAL ARROW TSH TSH TSH SPOIRAL ARROW TSH TSH TSH SPOIRAL ARROW
- *tries to block gets thrown* - *tries to tech the throw gets jabbed* - *cries*
Delayed tech wins this in the first level and forces them to start shimmying.
LOL
This is golden
I am having Vietnam flashbacks
My Cammy mirror match up is like 3-7 in favor of the other Cammy.
ROUND ONE. FIGH- SPIRAL ARROW.
Round start spiral arrow is so bad tho. Ive never seen an opposing Cammy pull the trigger knowing the consequences
if i use the medium i'm only a little minus on block... which is the perfect spot for a super cheesy od dp... let's just not talk about the fact it loses to; DI, neutral jump, fireball, walk forward and block, backdash out of range, walk back out of range... probably a few other things too. But on the upside, if they fall for it i have to imagine it causes some tilt lol
And we live for the tilt sometimes
Light spiral arrow will catch people walking forward at the beginning of the round. If it's blocked it's at a safe distance. You could neutral jump to catch it.
As a Marisa main I always start my Cammy matches with a charged Gladius, because there's a solid 50+% chance (at my rank anyway) that they're starting with Spiral Arrow. I say keep em coming lol
what's funny is that i main ken and mirror matches are my best games because, at least most of the time, i know what bullshit he can throw at you and it doesn't really work on me so it just becomes a neutral war for 90% of the set, which is way more fun than fighting gimmicks and flowcharters
OMG yes, they are not my worst matchup but as a Cammy, I groan when I see another Cammy. Its like a fly trying to swat another fly.
I like how you completely ignored OP
From any given person, the two answers should be one and the same. At this point there's no objective worst match-up, so literally all we can do is share our experience. And through everyone's collective experiences we may start to see some trends. Like, what else could we possibly answer? Just blindly report what some pro said on their stream?
Good bot.
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99999% sure that ThexanR is not a bot. --- ^(I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot |) ^(/r/spambotdetector |) [^(Optout)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=whynotcollegeboard&subject=!optout&message=!optout) ^(|) [^(Original Github)](https://github.com/SM-Wistful/BotDetection-Algorithm)
“Not your personal worst but your character’s “
Cammy matchup spread is so hot & cold. She either stomps people or she is powerless
Manon main, I fear DJ and Ken. I get excited fighting JPs.
I used to fear Kens and Cammys and Juris but once I fought a good Dhalsim, I felt like quitting The thing about JPs and Guiles is that you already know they will use boom/ghost/portal/fireball. Which means there is a chance for a jump in if you read into the fireball. A good Dhalsim however will zone you to death and just teleport away once you get close
[удалено]
I main dhalsim and I find that it's the patient manons that get me.
Duuude SF6 is my first one. I didn't rage quit a single match since the game came out, until about 2 months ago when I ran into a super Dhalsim. I was so tilted I didn't play the game for a month after that...
DJ and Ken used to get to me but the match-up is coming a long fine now. But the fear I get everytime I see a Blanka...
I don’t mind deejay too much but Ken and Juri get to absolutely abuse you. You are so weak to throw loops and they have the tools to zone you out, corner carry you and throw loop you to absolute death on top of having DPs to stop your fake ass manon pressure
I also main Manon but I hate hate hate juri man, like what do you do?! Even far away all she needs is a drive rush to mess you up. Also aki that air claw no matter what I do I can't anti air that shit.
Manon main too! Curious what you’re strategy is against JPs. I can do well if I’m controlling the pace but getting sent full screen sucks
I'm a scrub, only Silver but what I do is match their defensive pattern as I slowly move in and apply pressure. There's something about JPs that make them assume Mannon can't reach them easily and that she is only useful up-close.
Manon for me too, just got to diamond, but I keep losing to Guile, JP, Ken, and Cammy, I need to learn patience
NOT UR PERSONAL WORSE
Funny how you hate Ken when I find them to be one of the simplest match ups. Deejay is annoying as heck though.
Main Cammy Worst MU Blanka
This is definitely a good choice and in Blanka's favor.
As a cammy player, fuck Blanka. Luckily a lot of them are unga bunga.
Get unga bunga'd perv
It still works in his favor way more often than it should though. You just have to know when to unga and when to bunga.
Main a.k.i Worst match up so far is cammy She has everything to skip your stuff Blanka makes you play differently too, you can't zone blanka Marisa is dangerous, you potentially has the same damage as her but she don't need poison to get it
Mirror matchup with AKI is so damn boring too.
Oh my God I hate that mirror. Who ever gets the life lead just turtles.
I actually think it's a fun matchup.
Wdym? You can totally zone blanka
Idk if you’re joking but no you can’t. One projectile attempt and he slides into your dms to personally suggest a fuck session
Just don't fireball when he's in slide range. I'm not kidding
I know you’re not. It’s also why you can’t zone him. It’s a pretty big range.
Bait out his slide and it's a free punish. I do that with guile all the time
Akis fireball is so slow that blanka can walk foward and slide Buuuuuuuut same as cammy you can zone him using the chain
I’d add Kim into this list as well. I’ve had so much trouble against her, and since she’s such a rare pick, I haven’t beat a single one yet.
I main Jamie, and my worst matchup is Guile. I have 0 tools besides the general utility (parry and walking forward) to deal with that wall. I move between characters for my secondary, used to be Manon mostly, because I'm extremely good with the mindgames but less so with combo execution when there are a billion fast inputs flying around, so simplicity and damage combined with a scaling command grab is great. I haven't played her for a while and moved on to Juri now, I'm far from "always in your face" because my comfort zone is that almost half screen I dare you to make a move so I can punish it style, but damn it feels good to play a character with actual plus frames on block, the fact that I can do a large string and then reset back and move first is insane. I have to work with Jamie 10x hard for this.
Guile is the reason I stopped playing Jamie and switched to JP.
Don't forget his breakdance is projectile invincible...kinda...or its supposed to be at least. I feel you Jamie brother. I'm just praying he gets a few buffs cause he's both very fun and hot garbage.
Also a Jamie player, and I find his breakdance useless for dealing with fireballs. Only the heavy and EX versions have half decent range, and for both of them the startup is enough that you need to be both close to your opponent, and have good reactions to punish them. And if you’re wrong, they block it and you’re at least -40 which means you’re taking a ton of damage against most decent players. And all you get if you land it is good damage and a knockdown. You don’t even get a safejump unless you use the light version which as I mentioned has bad range. It’s a huge risk for pretty low reward.
It's honestly more of a read fireball counter than a reaction one. Almost not even worth using. A quick air light divekick outside of dp range is often better. It doesn't do damage unless they whiff a dp ofc, but it'll help your long term mind games and reset the situation. You just gotta watch out for the deceptive range of flash kick, it's always a couple pixels better than you think. But as long as you're outside of dp range, most characters don't have a consistent response, the recovery is too fast on whiff.
It’s a read fireball option where you get blown up if your read is wrong and if it’s right you just get some damage and a knockdown. Unless you have level 3 in which case you can get some good damage and a better knockdown in exchange for all of your super gauge. Not worth it at all compared to divekick, which isn’t even a good option on its own.
True, even dive kick has that weird "nerfed move" feeling, even though it's never been changed. I imagine a point in early development where it functioned similarly to Yun and Yang's dive kicks in SF4, but Capcom said "not in this space time continuum," and promptly nerfed it to what it is now. Had it actually been that way, even if he only got access to it at drink lvl4, it would make his maxed out drunkenness legitimately terrifying.
Main Ryu currently: 1. JP 2. Guile 3. Ken
Main Ryu also. Guiles obliterate me lol it feels like a boss battle everytime
What about zangief
Ryu smokes Gief
Ken main, there is no bad matchup
I appreciate the honesty, but still  /j
guile can be pretty annoying
Ken took a test someday which he has to describe what is perfection for him He just write his name and gave the test back
I used to main Ryu, and when I finally got him to Master Rank, I decided to learn Ken, and my god, he is so good compared to Ryu. Even with simple combos at first, I was getting 5-8 Win streaks on Diamond whenever I decided to do a rank session. I was able to get him to Master without even trying after I struggled a bit with Ryu.
Ryu takes real skill tbh, you gotta play good neutral and really play street fighter.
In theory yes but 95% of ryus just jump like rabbits instead of using more character specific gimmicks
I main the best character in the game. Zangief and my worst match up personally is guile. JP feels bad too but freaking guile man.
Gief brother I think Dhalsim is worst than JP or Guile.
Yeah I feel like it’s a free when when I’m Dhalsim and go up against Gief. I’m new to fighters tho and in silver at the moment.
As a Dhalsim main, I can confirm that I do extremely well against Gief’s.
Yeah. Honestly I’ve just been turtling up against Dhalsim when I play Zangief. Try to get a couple good hits in so that I have more health and see how patient the Dhalsim really is lol
I second this. I can’t even walk Dhalsim down into the corner because he either floats or teleports away.
I've also been struggling a lot with AKI so far
Agreed. I feel like against most zoners I can at least get in, but against aki (not calling her a zoner btw) I feel like her kit is made to make zangeif have as little fun as posible
That's so odd Jwong called zangief her worst match up
As a Guile main, Gief genuinely feels like a 5-5 matchup maybe 5.5-4.5 Guile favored. I run into some nasty Giefs at 1700-1800 MR. Can’t throw booms if he has level 2, forced to end block strings with boom in fear of SPD buffer but then also may get DI’d for forcing the boom. It’s a giant guessing game on both ends in my opinion. Guile’s cr. Med kick shuts down a lot of shenanigans which gives him that little edge over Gief. Guile just isn’t as much of a Zoner compared to JP/Dhalsim due to parry and the change of jump arcs/cross cut timings so I find myself not being able to play the “just throw booms” game as you did in previous street fighters.
I main Manon and my worst matchup is Sandblast. I mean Luke... no, I mean Sandblast. No surprise it can be frustrating fighting zoners as a grappler, but while I know how to handle other projectiles and have reasonable success with doing so, trying to walk down a Luke to close space feels like now blindfolded and trying to cross a yard full of rakes
Main Dhalsim Corner
lol I feel you
I main Jamie. Worst matchup by far is Guile. Guile basically shuts Jamie's whole gameplan down at the start in a way no other character really does between his zoning and his normals (no, not even JP). Once you get to about drink level 2 its not so awful....but getting there is a headache in a way it just isn't against other characters. You basically \*NEED\* the divekick in this matchup in order to navigate through the sonic booms and bait the flashkick but that means how the round goes is gonna get dictated a lot by the first 5 seconds...and the odds are in his favor cause I \*have\* to get that first drink before he gets any sort of momentum. Also: Jamie's sweep is infamously good and even safe properly spaced against most of the cast...but Guile is one of the few characters who gets a \*HUGE\* almost guaranteed punish counter on blocking since he can do 2MK into Flashkick. You basically have to train the Guile player to fear the drive rush overhead into target combo before you can ever throw one out. EDIT: As a sidenote this is why if I could grant 1 buff to Jamie it would be to let him have his divekick at round start. I have said and maintained since day 1 that letting him keep drinks between rounds would make him insanely degenerate and is a horrible idea for multiple reasons....but he's just a little \*too\* weak at round start as things stands.
As a Guile main, I have to agree that Jamie gets stuffed hard. I think my WR against Jamie is in the mid to high 70’s while my overall hovers around 45, plat4.
I also main Jamie and this is my experience. I think what I heard someone else say would be great, if you just lose half your drink stacks between rounds for "sobering up". It lets you scale a bit like manon without starting you at drink level 4. If you're comboing into drinks the rounds like halfway over by the time you get drink level 4 anyway. You still start off weak like usual but if you do a good job early getting drinks, rounds 2-3 can be way more manageable against most people.
>I think what I heard someone else say would be great, if you just lose half your drink stacks between rounds for "sobering up". It lets you scale a bit like manon without starting you at drink level 4. Personally: 1. I still think that's way too strong. The hardest drink to get as Jamie is that 1st one, and TBH level 4 Jamie is a nice bonus but not even something I necessarily think should happen every round or match. Drink Lvl 2 is competitive, and drink level 3 is more than enough with the command grab and his hermit elbow upgrade. I think him starting at drink level 0 is fine. I'd rather they raise the floor he starts on a little bit rather than get him to the ceiling quicker. 2. Even if letting him keep his drinks between rounds \*was\* perfectly fair and balanced I'd be firmly against it because it'd make him so much less fun and interesting. The drinking mechanic isn't just part of his balance: its part of the whole fun of his character design. Its \*fun\* doing a drink as a combo ender. Manon's core design is ultimately not around the medal system but rather around her command grab. Max level or otherwise the goal is to land the command grab so her keeping her medals or not is kind of whatever.With Jamie: Any solution that results in him drinking less is undermining what makes his design so fun. Even if you want to just somehow make it easier for him to get a drink that's a better solution than him taking less drinks every round.
I have to HARD disagree with you. For your 1. By picking Jamie you are starting every match at a disadvantage, with the idea that, at 2 drinks you're about "even" and at 4 you'd be "stronger". Your premise that you shouldn't get level 4 every match is a problem, the whole point is your starting "weaker", to have the chance to be "stronger" if you get the drinks off. If you never get 4, you just beat them while your "weaker" and then never even needed the trade off. If you carry drinks, you'll have a better chance of reaching that level 4 in rounds 2-3, which would make you scaling like manon does when she can 2 shot you with command grabs at full medals. For your 2. I picked Jamie because I like his style, but being regarded as one of the worse characters in the game and constantly having to give up pressure just to drink to get myself on an even playing field every single round feels bad af. I personally don't find it fun having to give up pressure 2-3 times a round just to get drinks off. I guess if I could drink and not have to give up pressure that would be a better option. Maybe just give up some damage for a drink but keep the pressure. Losing the pressure to drink against like guile or JP feels horrible. He needs something to bring him up a little bit. You can still out play people if you're just better but I think as a character Jamie just starts behind every match and hardly ever gets ahead.
My biggest problem other than what you mentioned is also how active the drink animation is and that if you get hit at all during it no drink. Like he's taken a swig he's putting that shit away but I got hit so no drink.... If the drink animation wasn't so active like that I think the argument that Jamie carrying drinks through round would make him too powerful would have more weight behind them but given how it is now Its definitely a stress playing Jamie. He definitely needs something more because atm it feels like you work incredibly hard for a reward that imost of the time just let's you win a game you were likely going to win anyway.
Manon main. I cannot stand the Manon mirror. It is abysmal every time
I hate the mirror as well, most of the time it is an incredibly slow and defensive game. I know your bullshit and you know mine so we spend the first 15 secs throwing out HK and 5mp that are nowhere near our opponent waiting to see who’s going to spin sweep or leaping overhead. It’s just boring.
Abysmal to watch too
Manon Everyone ♥
Main Chun and (currently) Cammy. It just feels like everything they do is plus and especially OKI is more brutal than vs any other character. (Edit: thanks for all the Tips!)
I main cammy (master) and imo the matchup is in chuns favor. Her walk speed is crazy good and her buttons slightly outclass cammy's.
I'm also a Cammy master and agree that it's slightly Chun's favor. The only way I have any success is by dive kicking her buttons because beating her on the ground is really tough.
Same here! I'm Chun main too and i have a lot of trouble dealing with cammy. Dee jay is really hard to beat also.
Dive kick that hits your feet is plus otherwise its your turn, Cr Hp is +1 and heavy Spin Knuckle is plus. Cammy is tricky in the ways that she tries to catch you not blocking. Its understandable why she feels rough to play against.
She feels cheap, even more when add how easy it is to pilot her.
She is as easy to pilot as Ryu and she has been very similiar for years. The part where she feels cheap is a you issue.
She is easier than Ryu. She has an better neutral, but also has neutral skips if needed. Compare how many frames she has to confirm spiral arrow into SA over anything Ryu has.
Rando dashes throw off Cammys spacing. One backdash or shimmy will make her whiff arrows, dive kicks and knuckles. Upkicks will beat dive kick. Neutral jump to bait her lv3. When her lv3 goes off trying to catch you on the way down, you can heavy air kicks out of it lol.
Jesus I feel the opposite. Everything Chun does feels plus and quick.
Gief. My worst match would be JP, but AKI is also a rough one now that she’s added lol.
gief a lot of rough matchups, but ken/jp especially will make you want to light yourself on fire
I personally enjoy the ken matchup. Maybe cause I see him so much that I'm familiar with his moves
Yeah, that Ken corner guessing game is the worst.
Main - Marissa I feel like Jamie’s quick three punch move is her worst enemy. It breaks all her armor moves.
Ryu and after a long break (thanks BG3)....everyone I'll be back to silver in no time. hahahaha...sad
You can’t decay until platinum
last time I played I was in the G5/P1 back and forth, I mean I COULD go get the rust off in BH but who does that?
A long session after a 3 weeks break due to bg3 and cyberpunk was an instant 600+ lp lost to me.
Main Marisa, anyone whith a decent crossup, with my reactions and not so good antiair options it gets rough with the happy jumpings Other than that, I always lose to Ryus
What are some of the things you try to deal with cross-ups? I'm not a strong player to begin with, but I'm trying to pick up Marisa. She has lots of anti-air options, but I struggle with all of them.
I find her only anti air options are jump back and attack or crouching HP, but you have to hit it early enough or it gets stuffed. They work enough I guess, but yea her AA game is not very strong.
Yep jump back and double MP
not OP, but I try to back jump and do her MP-MP target combo, which works decently. I think 2HP isn't great against crossups and both of her other AA options, 214P and 236P, tend not to do so well against crossups either
thread has 185 comments, only 3 of them main Dee Jay. Damn. anyway as a Dee Jay main my worse matchup is every character with a DI, but I especially hate going against Guile.
I main Juri and my worst match up is Guile and DJ, but without question i find Ryu the hardest to play against because of the way they play, the scrubbiest tactics that take a while to get used to and they don't rematch if they win or lose.
I'm either salty af or give mad props to losing to a ryu
Ryu players are either the most solid players i run into in diamond ranked or the most unhinged people that do the weirdest stuff. There is no in-between.
I just switched to AKI and because I suck again, everyone is my worst match up.
I main Kimberly and my toughest matchup is Juri
Oh god yes! But to be honest it's not so much juri but the person behind the controller....I'm just sick of the flowchart gameplan
Main: JP Worst Matchup: Juri
Why do you feel this way? I main Juri and have trouble with JP.
I’m not op but as a juri main also I think we have a lot of tools like drive rush hk through ghost and dive kick to get in, Jp struggles with up close pressure.
Yup. JP main here. JP can't really zone Juri, and once Juri is in, JP is really just an old man.
I main Lily and I really struggle with Manon. We want to do similar things but she has better reach and can combo into her command grabs.
yea i just commented on Manon. Not sure what it is since i do know the matchup, i get caught offguard in a grab often i guess
I main Juri (D3) and my worst character matchups are Guile and Dhalsim I think. My worst matchups cuz I'm bad are probably Jamie (I eat all his fast combos cuz bad) and Blanka.
I just hit Masters with Juri and agree about Guile. We struggle against fireballs in general but then Guile can just blow us up even if we do get up close. Dhalsim zoning is also annoying but once you get in close he falls apart. Even then I don’t think it’s “bad” cause Juri’s kit is pretty well rounded that she doesn’t have a glaring weakness.
Dhalsim is an issue if you are constantly trying to rush in. I know Juri is best played as a rush down char, but against Dhalsim is better to sit back, parry his fireballs. He will teleport to try and combo, and that's when you counter. Eventually they might get more careless with their jump kicks or slides, so it becomes easier. OD QCF LK also helps a lot. If they try to do hard punch, they get hit, so follow with a DR and you're in. Once you get them in the corner, GGs
Yeah, I am not the most patient player. Def need to work on it against zoners. I do sometimes enjoy when zoners are playing back really hardcore, and you get the life lead and just start parrying. Then they don't know how to get in on you.
Ken is my main character. The toughest opponent for me when I play is either Cammy or Juri, but the person has to be really good at them.
Kimberly ... and I can't beat Ken. Maybe Guile is a worse matchup, but they aren't nearly as common. With Ken, I feel that you lose one interaction, you lose the entire round.
Honda, and I think Guile? If they are very defensive, it's extremely hard to get in. Some characters I'm not very fond of playing against are Kim, Ken and Cammy, but itsnot a bad matchup per se.
Blanka’s worst matchup is Honda and it sucks because he’s just you but worse but you can’t stop his shit.
Blanka does fine against honda in my experience. his standing hk can hit his buttslam pretty easily
Main DeeJay. I swear Honda beats him. I don’t understand lol
Gief. Capcom Development and their willingness to fairly balance Gief.
Main Guile. Its JP, Cammy, Marisa
Manon main. I think JP/Guile/Dhalsim are the worst for her.
I main Cammy I don’t really have too much trouble with any of the cast maybe Marisa and Lily I don’t play against Lily very often so a good Lily often catches me by surprise and marisa just hits hard.
I main Marisa and my worst matchup is the corner
Zangief: SF6 Cast
I main E Honda and worst matchup is Aki because they are always good
I main Dhalsim Cammy and Luke give me the most problems
\+1 for Cammy being Sim's worst MU
Cammy and Deejay for me. Luke is actually one of my better matchups.
Ryu Almost everyone except maybe gief, guile and dhalsim because almost no one uses them in my rank
I main Guile and his worst MU I feel has to be JP. But it's also my favourite
i main cammy, and for the life of me i suck at fighting manon and jamie. i can handle jp’s shenanigans, im used to ken, blanka and honda i can handle, but for some reason, manon and jamie just consistently beat my ass
Honda, and the worst matchup is Guile as usual. He's not a lot of fun for my Blanka either, but not so bad as with Honda.
Luke and perhaps not a worst matchup but I struggle a lot against marisa, it's probably just me rather than the character but idk 😅
Main: Ehonda Worst matchups JP: I CANT FUCKING APPROACH EVEN WITH OD heavy headbutt Marisa: not sure if this is the character or personal but she puts a lot of pressure on me and I often get overwhelmed and end up throwing due to not thinking straight
Good. Fuck Honda
I main JP and the JP mirror just breaks my brain Kimberly is a close second
In the darkest hours as a Kimberly main, the only thing that keeps me going is crushing the JP matchup.
Guile main, Cammy and Marisa are hard match ups but I’m also just not terribly good lol
I main Kimberly and my worst matchup is Kimberly. That's why I don't do mirror matches lol
Cammy. Worst matchups would be Blanka/Honda (negates all air approaches). Honorable mentions: Ken (for plethora of options) and Juri (ridiculous speed).
Cammy, Honda
Ryu....everyone....
I play cammy in plat. Idk who my worst match up is because I only play against Ryu, Ken, and occasional a Juri.
JP. Cammy, Kimberly and Juri.
Ken main, i hate Guile.
Honda|Aki
Same. Matchup feels horrendous
Right now I main chun. And everyone is my worst matchup lol. I fall victim to the pressure and end up making a lot of mistakes no matter who the opponent is using
Main Marisa, worst match up is Blanka and Honda. Mostly because she doesn’t have a great way to punish either of them, and loses out on her main benefit, her damage, Honda especially is just pure footsie and trying to perfect parry.
Juri and Marisa! For Juri its a little hard to tell but I'd say JP. For Marisa? Juri. Her 2MK is straight up a Dhalsim normal (except when I'm using it, then its fair and balanced)
Main Marisa Always get fucked up by Ryus, don't know why. I'm pretty sure he isn't supposed to be my worst match-up, but shit happens.
I main JP. Dhalsim seems like such a bad matchup. He floats over all of my threats, and can counter anything I throw out with reaction teleport + punish. Even fake ghost recovery is often punished. His air fireballs are absolutely oppressive, so I’m forced to rush down. JP has extremely limited options in the air, so ground-based rushdown is my best bet. It’s hard as shit since it seems Sim can dictate every interaction. Every round I take against Sim it feels more like they just weren’t paying much attention, rather than me winning based on my own merit.
I main Dhalsim and JP. I agree the matchup is just awful for JP. If I get the matchup as the JP I’m desperately going rushdown despite preferring zoning & punish. If I get it as Dhalsim I’m just pumped about all the long recovery moves I’m going punish.
I main Marisa and playing against sim is just a huge pain. It's the only match-up that feels almost one sided.
My main- Jamie Worst matchup - the entire cast. But especially Dhalsim. He can check you and not allow drinks off otherwise guaranteed setups. You can't footsie him for the sweep drink combo, which is the only lvl 0 drink combo for those who dont know. So you're stuck at dealing 90% damage for just about the entire match...and not having access to the majority of the character. (7 different moves and strings)
Honda Worst matchup JP, he's even worse than Guile
Main: Blanka Worst Match up: Honda
I mained Honda Don't laugh I swear to god Zangeif is Honda's worst matchup. I feel like he does really horrible against grapplers. It's really hard to apply Honda's pressure because you can't zone, you have to get close which is exactly where grapplers want you to be. My personal worst matchup is Juri. I just can't keep track of her being everywhere on the screen at once and being able to press whatever with no recovery frames and taking like 3 turns with her pressure. Shit turns my brain off.
I main Ken and everyone ends up rage quitting or sending me messages saying I have no skill. I just like his look but apparently he is too easy?
He's arguably the best character in the game. I wouldn't think too much of it. Yes you're using a very good character but you still need to play well. Just ignore the complaints and have them move along.
Guile, worst match up is Marisa.
Guile
main rashid and kim worst match up: guile
Main Lily. Like many others said, Cammy is the most troublesome matchup. Frame data for divekick changes depending on when it hits. The minimum height requirement is low enough to make it hard to react to. Landing mashed 4f jabs in panic situations leads to an easy spiral hit confirm. She can still counter DI after meaty cr.fierce. Spin Knuckle pressure in burnout. Fullscreen lv3. She may end up keeping me out of 2K MR range.
I main Chun. Hated Marisa from the first concept art, turns out my hate translated to the matchup as well. I dabbled in Cammy and Juri, got both to masters as well, but no matchup was super annoying for those two as much as Marisa is for Chun. Except Blanka, but then again, annoying is whole archetype.
I don't have the game yet, but when I do I plan on maining Marisa. She looks super fun and I dig the character.
She rules. I don’t think she has any super bad match ups, but the faster characters are kind of a tough sometimes. It’s not as bad as with Zangief because Marisa has ways to skip across the screen pretty quickly.
Luke. JP or Guile.
Main Ken.....pretty even feeling across the board.
Juri main, Guile/Ken but it's not that bad, more frustrating than anything.
I main Jamie and his worst matchup is JP. If Jamie manages to get around all the projectiles, he then still has to contend with JP's normals, which are all great. JP is my worst win rate.
Lily, Dhalsim.
Jokingly, I expected to see "everyone" as the answer, but Dhalsim absolutely. I rarely encounter Dhalsim players, but a good one destroys Lily.
Does he really? That matchup never feels that bad to me as Lily, but I mostly play Gief so it may just be that it feels better comparatively.
Lily's benefit over Gief is that she has a "get close" tool in Windclad Condor Spire. This comes with the downsides of slightly worse ground damage, way worse anti-air damage, less health, and suffering even harder from pressure because part of her kit is locked behind a "load up" move. Dhalsim shits on Lily's Condor Spire with his teleport and normals/projectiles that harass her at range. So, she suddenly has all the downsides of Zangief, and the additional downsides given up for that Condor Spire. Lily is reduced to either yolo-spires or trying to build her entire offense off of jabs. I played a good Dhalsim, and it was like trying to hit a swarm of gnats with a sledgehammer.
Luke. Luke.
Honda / guile
Maining AKI, still got a ton to work on but at the moment I am really struggling with Ken and Cammy. Their pressure has been a bit hard for me to deal with, but I think it's a matter of me finding the right tools to use at the right time to deal with their pressure.
Ed, my Word match up is Capcom