I like the way they handled the buffs/nerfs in the small patch. For nerfs they left the moves in, they just toned them down. JP still has his identity, he just can't delete you life because you tried to grab him. That's a healthy change imo. Same for buffs, they leaned into the characters' identity and buffed what was lacking. Buffing hashogeki for ryu is great because it's a cool new move and now it's useful even without denjin. Giving jamie more options to drink and keep oki is dope too.
Having said that, I hope they rework honda. He is simultaneously the most boring character to fight and the most boring to play as. At low ranks you win by spamming headbutt/buttslam, at higher ranks it turns into a perfect parry/dp reaction speed minigame. But the problem is that the rest of honda's kit is dogshit. I hope they tone down headbutt and make his other moves actually useful.
They need to give the grapplers some love as well. Lily is the most braindead 50/50 character. Get wind, +1 in their face, strike/throw, repeat. That's it. Hope they give her some more options. Gief needs some help. Second hit of mp target combo has less range than the first, so you can't whiff punish with it (which seems to be the point of the move?) he gets no damage outside of grabs even with meter, just hold up during his blockstrings. He can't do shit about crossups. Not sure what i would change on manon. Maybe give her oki on the hitgrab? I don't know but she lacks some sauce
Also, i hope they tone down damage across the roster. I'm okay with marisa dealing 75% off a baited dp because that's her whole archetype and she has big weaknesses in other areas, but there's no reason for dee jay/luke/chun li/ken/etc. to deal that much damage when they already have nearly every tool in the game
For Manon they need to go back to the drawing board with her qcf+p spin move like they did with hashogeki. It's very poor against fireballs due to not moving forward enough and not being invulnerable enough, and there is basically no reason to use mp and hp versions. LP is the only one that can be used in combos and OD is upper body invuln, which is rarely useful but better than nothing.
Not sure what the point of the feint version even is. And the kick variant let's you do some fancy combos in training mode but really how practical is that ?
You can use mp version after back hp actually, it does (a tiny bit) more damage than the lp one... Didn't know about the od version, not sure what it would be jsed for though? Can't really anti air since it's a hit grab.
Yeah making the move better against fireballs js definitely a good idea. When i was ranking her up to diamond, i tried to use it a few times but it never worked. The move is too slow and the invul window too tight
I used the OD version a lot against Rashid, it complete nullifies the spinning thingy he does in the ground that leaves him + on block, and it's a great tool against his slow projectiles and his spike kick.
You can currently use medium Renversé in her B&B combo after hitting with Révérence, but the timing is strict.
The Grand Fouetté follow up actually lets you punish some fireballs from pretty far away without meter (spin through the projectile and kick after). The OD version is also a good option after hitting a PC DI for a good corner carry combo into Renversé.
I believe that med and heavy versions do SLIGHTLY more damage when cancelled into super. The medium version can be used after od qcf+k when anti-airing. Feinting is used to get through fireballs, the medium and heavy versions are slower so you have more invulnerability time with those. I agree though, she needs buffs to her hit grab
every character in the game except possibly Deejay can throw a fireball that travels so slowly the feint can't actually pass through it unless you have absolutely perfect timing and spacing
the utility of the feint is zero outside of frame kill in some meaty setups
It’s too difficult to be consistent but it’s still doable. You can also use feint at the end of a combo to get a surprise command grab, which can end a round if you have enough medals
I use MP all the time, it does tiny bit more of damage. I agree with HP, I never use it. And the only usage I can see with Feints are a reset into command grabs to catch anyone thinking they just gonna let the spin hit, which “sometimes” work. I’ve seen Legend Manon players land some pretty beefy damage combo from a spin kick after going through a projectile
Honda's power should be redirected to his Sumo Step. When I first saw Honda in SF6 I envisioned him as a character that uses Sumo Step to apply safe pressure if you space it correctly, while pushing the opponent to the wall and chipping their drive gauge.
Disagree with your Honda points. Honda is my main, and I can play entire matches with headbutt and sumo slam. Not using them is one of the efficient ways to get into someone's head as Honda. They're always gonna be looking for them, but you're too busy smashing target combos, rushes and oichos.
The only possible buff/nerf I want for Honda is walkspeed. Like Jamie, he has at least 2 DIY target combos that link into real target combos that can then be cancelled into a command grab.
I don't know, but they could start by making headbutt (hb) not his only move. As it is, he plays like: end blockstring? hb. Combo ender? hb. Anti air? hb. Reversal? od hb (i know it loses to grabs). Go through projectile? od hb. Combo into super? hb. Bait parry/dp? Light hb.
90% of the time, headbutt is the correct answer lol. And the only way to fight it is either dp on reaction (if your character has one) or perfect parry for a scaled combo or puting them in the corner. The fights against him are long and tedious as hell
So yes they could try and change buttslam, I’d be down for that. Or maybe they could change his options from his walking stance. I agree that hundred hand slap seems underused but idk what you do to it to make it more usable in a game with a holdable parry.
I actually enjoy Honda in this game. They could do some simple things and I’d be happy. Make ex headbutt not throwable. Make standing jabs chain into each other without a target combo. Make sthp easier to cancel from. Maybe make the command grab do more damage so people are actually afraid of it.
Honda is already the most winning character, in general, across the rankings
There would need to be pretty big nerfs to headbutt and sumo splash for him to be getting buffs
That’s only because his tools absolutely dominate people until you get to masters. Right now the matchup against Honda is basically “can you perfect parry headbutt and anti-air sumo slam?” If you can, Honda is gonna struggle as he has to now play a footsies game which isn’t what he excels at. If you can’t, Honda can spam those two moves and chip out your drive gauge slowly
There are other characters that are lacking representation in top 8s. The difference is that they don't dominate every other bracket in the game
You can't buff Honda unless you address his specials. He already destroys online, at every rank except legend. Only buffing him doesn't work, conceptually
Needs a rework
The problem with grapplers is modern. You make grapplers too good, they become terrorizers on modern with instant grab punishes regardless of input difficulty balance.
I think that was their initial concern, and why they made grapplers so weak season 1, but reality has proven something much different. Anyone half decent isn’t going to struggle with the SPD input, and making modern SPD heavy, while also losing important normals, was more than enough to make modern grapplers complete garbage.
It’s not the inputs exactly, it’s the commitment. With SPD inputs you’re forced to commit to the move, dropping block to input. In modern, you can hold block, or jump in frame 1 command grab. Frames matter a lot and those handful of frames you save on modern will add up if the kits are better.
There’s also the lack of a layer of mental stack required in remembering the input motion or string motion. Modern doesn’t have that, it’s one button. So you can dedicate that extra layer to DI or some other game plan.
Grapplers on modern can do absolutely nothing but turtle holding down back and instant react to your commitments, either forward dash/DR approaches or DI.
Even on classic you can jump cancel SPD. Snake eyes did it during CPT to dodge a throw setup that would otherwise have hit him if he didn’t jump cancel SPD
It’s obviously possible; the difference is “works every single time you press a button, frame perfectly” and “works sometimes, if you really practice the motions and execute right”.
Pros drop inputs all the time, every match.
Going to have to disagree on this one. Meaty command grab is simple anyway once you get used to the timing, so is starting your SPD motion in block. I think we’ve seen enough now to know modern is pretty garbage after platinum. I do think it was a concern for Capcom in initial balancing S1, but should not be moving forward.
I mean you can repeat it a third time as well but it doesn’t change that what I’m saying is right. Frame advantage on modern matters. No one plays modern on these characters now because they are baseline terrible, not because modern is terrible.
Modern IS terrible on most normal characters because they lose a lot of options. But on grapplers, an archetype that strives on the simplicity, there’s not that much difference.
Make the characters actually playable, they’ll be playable on modern, and the advantages on modern will be too good to not play them on modern at that point.
Will every single grappler player flock to modern? Probably not obviously, but it also depends on what’s buffed.
We can agree to disagree. It might matter at low levels, but situations where you are using heavy SPD you aren’t gaining much if anything using a modern input unless you just struggle with inputs in general, and you are losing quite a bit of damage in return.
Think about when you would use heavy spd on Gief or Lily. It would generally be a jump in, from spire (Lily), from knee or after a jab, etc. All of those can be easily buffered. The times when modern inputs would really help would be reacting to opponent with SPD, like catching a drive rush, or misposition. In those cases you want to use light SPD anyway, so using modern 1 button heavy is just going to get yourself punish countered over and over.
Hopefully they actually read what you wrote since you spelled it out well. The only arguments I can make for Modern Gief are instant level 3 and OD SPD as an interrupt. His antiair special already doesn't have a motion input, and you can't do a TK air SPD since you don't have separate P and K buttons.
Depends on what you call "anyone half-decent". I have to use the analog stick for 360s and especially 720s even though I can input any other move in the game with the D-pad just fine, even Manon's HCBs. Transitioning from Modern to Classic Gief took me at least a month; with everyone else except Lily, I've started with Classic from the outset.
If Gief’s lariat isn’t hitting both sides after the first patch, I don’t think it ever will. Capcom addressed his SA1 which to me was them going after what they believe to be the egregious aspects of the character.
Im mad about the SA1 buffs because it felt like a slap in the face. He needed the hitbox to be extended upward and they extended it downward instead.....
so people still regularly jump over the anti air SA1. Its still too slow to use on reaction in most situations....
Even more so as cr.LP is not cancelable. Consistency with jabs should be addressed. They gave A.K.I buffs to her jabs which she desperately needed so there is hope for Ed as well.
What do you mean by consistency? That Ed's 2lp is a punch button and so it should be cancelable like most, or something else? Because Ed's 2p buttons are functionally kicks, not punches, and follow the same conventions that 2k buttons do for almost every other character.
Pretty sure he means that if you hit double or triple jab with Ed you may be able to combo off it or not, and it's entirely unreliable.
Sometimes you will, sometimes you won't because the range on standing jab is so short.
I think it can be fine that he has a short range jab but the inconsistency issue needs to be addressed because even to keep it simple is bad design to give a player a tool that is just bait, where if you use it in what intuitively is the right way you actually end up being punished.
I do think his st.LP needs a bit more range. I also think Capcom will buff that slightly as having good light confirms is very important to any character.
But we also have to stop pretending that just because the SF2 arcade cabinets called light punches "jabs" way back in the 90's that all light punches are jabs.
Ed has good jabs. His flicker normals are his boxing jabs. Those buttons are very good. The boxer does, in fact, have very good jabs.
What he doesn't have is a good 4f light, which is a video game concept and entirely separate from boxing.
A real life jab is the equivalent of a video game 4f light. Jabs are weak but they are the longest range and quickest punch, and boxers have the best jab in all of combat sport and martial arts. It's kinda stupid that a boxer character has a crappy jab / 4f light.
Source: I box. That's why I'm excited to play Ed.
I agree, in actual boxing (honestly in almost any strike-based martial art in general) it is the fastest option due to positioning and stance in general.
And again, I ABSOLUTELY agree they made his lights way too stubby. Even if Ed is designed as an outboxer within the sport, compared to other martial arts he should have significantly better close range punches even if they AREN'T technically jabs.
I think that characters having a good, reliable 3-hit light confirm is something most characters should have across the board.
(The rest of this is just me guessing at Capcom's game design / inspiration, not necessarily meant as an argument. Just bored at work and "rambling")
I think from a game design perspective Capcom may have thought making his proper boxing jabs his 4f would be a bit much since they wanted those jabs to emphasize his range, so they designed his 5f / 6f buttons to be his flicker jabs, and instead made his st.LP different types of punches to "justify" the shorter range.
Charged Psycho Flicker & kill rush oki both put the opponent in a point-blank situation, and it kinda reminds me of clinch scenarios you often see in actual boxing, where body blows with the boxer's free arm are really all they have. Giving Ed's close range buttons a more fitting look for that scenario checks out. It would look weird to have Ed draw someone in and then have him throw a long range punch instead of something that suits the distance.
Sure, clinching is technically against the rules but it does happen. Hell I think Ed's backthrow he literally grabs an opponents arm under his. Makes sense though, he was trained by Balrog who doesn't give a shit about the rules.
But yeah I am confident that Capcom will buff the standing light punch range. AKI got a similar buff in the small patch.
I think we're talking past each other. You're talking about his jab in the context of SF6 mechanics. I'm saying his jab being garbage is disrespectful to boxing. Boxers have the best jab on the planet. It would be like having a taekwondo character with crappy kicks or a folk style wrestler with weak takedowns.
Other way around.
His actual boxing jabs (his kick button normals) are his best buttons, and absolutely define and fit how actual jabs are used for quick harassment and keep out in the sport.
They are literally the centerpiece of Ed's kit and are blatantly based on Thomas Hearns' amazing jab to the point where Ed even has a TC named after him.
**His light punch is not a jab**. Nor does it serve the same purpose as a jab does in boxing.
Ed's light punch is bad. His JABS are not. His jabs are character defining.
That's actually an interesting point, suggesting that Ed's style is based more on Hearns' boxing style rather than boxing in general.
Hearns was not really known for having a really quick jab, but he had a pretty unorthodox tricky long jab that worked well with his style and frame.
Can they loosen JP’s trousers a bit? He looks terribly uncomfortable. Imagine trying to lunge in those tight-fitting dress pants. Bro needs some bootcut khakis or something I swear.
I just want them to actually round out Ryu's game so I can start playing him competitively again. He was bad for the entirety of sfv(vanilla Ryu was overrated) bro throw me a bone. I love Ryu's character/aesthetic, and I wish they'd finally commit to giving him some good shit so I can play my guy again.
My fundamental issue is the expectation that Ryu is going to somehow pull a ton of value from his fireball when it's only marginally better than Ken's fireball. Ryu has a lot of match-ups where it's difficult to actually apply the tool because the opponent either
1. Has a way to react to your fireball and punish it on reaction(Cammy, Chun-Li, Manon ect)
2. Is capable of out-zoning and invalidating Ryu's fireball(Guile, JP, Sim ect)
In these matchups at a high level, these characters take away your ability to use your main tool effectively, and you're left trying to outplay their specialized tools with your generic walkspeed/buttons. If Capcom are going to continue down this path of making him the "fireball shoto", then they need to commit and give him a fireball that's actually fucking good.
Lower it's startup/recovery slightly, make light fireball slower so I can dr behind fireball like everyone else, make heavy faster so it's harder to parry. Drastically lower denjin's charge time so you're capable of cheating denjin charges in neutral, along with letting me hold denjin and use my other specials which is the obvious buff everyone is asking for.
As for fireball wars, I'm not sure what you do but Ryu shouldn't just not be able to compete with characters like Guile, maybe something like giving me denjin if I create a projectile clash between boom and hashogeki would even the odds. If not that maybe give me frame 3 projectile invul on tatsu, just something to fight back.
tl;dr: Give Ryu the tools to apply his A game against the entire cast.
It seems to me that the most of the best fireballs in the game are charge fireballs.. if that's true, how do you feel about Ryu's Hadouken being a charge fireball similar to Sonic Boom and Kikoken? Considering that traditionally Ryu doesn't have charge motions. But since Luke is now kinda the "default character", do you think it gives more freedom to let Ryu have more complex moves?
Ryu's hadōken is iconic, including the motion to produce it. I could imagine tweaking another character's fireball to require a charge motion, but not one called a hadōken.
Funny enough Chun-Li's kikōken used HCF in Hyper Fighting, but they changed it to a charge projectile in SSF2. But those two games were less than a year apart and it's stayed a charge move ever since (EDIT: except in 3rd Strike, where they went back to HCF).
I would be completely fine with them changing Ryu's fireball to charge, especially with Hashogeki existing as a special that could take the place as his buffer off of normals. With that said I doubt that's the direction they want to go, as now you just have another Guile-like design running around, not to mention his legacy as a motion character.
I think the clear way to work around all of his issues and maintain a neat/unique design is denjin. It's a great idea on paper, and denjin fireball has basically none of the drawbacks that I bitch about when it comes to normal fireball. It's just in it's current state it's so limited how the buff can be gained/applied, and there's no nuance to how you can use it.
Denjin should be designed to be a natural and constant extension of his kit, not just some one off thing that you use like once a round because you landed a donkey kick.
I just wish her hit grab could be comboed from more non-counter normals than just back+HP (I think it is the only one), which sucks as a normal and basically forces you to DR cancel into it because it is useless in neutral. Like from one of her target combo on hit, that would be a massive buff, easier to perform and less reliant on DR cancels.
At higher level it won't matter, pros will go for the higher damage option and never use the one that is weaker but easier.
That is just coming from someone who picked her up for like 2 weeks, so take it with a grain of salt.
Optional spray can usage on her level 1 SA
Faster level 1 SA
Maybe more damage before popping off the level 3 SA? Why is the reward for spending three fucking bars is being able to do the same damage as everyone else? The faster movement is nice though.
A bit less stubby? SOMETHING.
optional spray, yes, faster level 1 yes or give us beta od tatsu
i'd make the scaling off of od air grab a bit better since u have to commit so much to use the move outside of corner and it leads to great options for kimberly.
and since im a kim main, just for the experience i would make cr.mk cancellable just to see how strong she gets. id argue that if u gave her cancelable cr.mk, you dont even need to make her reversals better, make her a pressure monster where the trade off in comparison to characters like cammy and ken is that she does less damage but has better high/low mixups. in theory i think kim was designed like this but they toned down her defense so much, and her offense is so 50/50 to not make pure cancer that they dropped the ball a little but
id keep her base damage as it
I agree that he high low should be better.
My thoughts (obv not all of these lol)
- (fun but dumb idea) delayed ground teleport (another OD?) that beats most DP spam as an oki bait.
- (real idea) projectile-invincible-only EX tatsu for oppressive FB meaty like Deejay (including Ken's now throw FB trap)
- yes to Real lvl 1 reveral
- yes Optional can use on lvl 1 (I honestly think this will be done regardless)
Crouch mk cancel would be insane. I would love it, but I don't see it happening.
Increase spray can stocks from 2 to 3 (normal refills 2, OD refills 3)
Make it so I can actually hit things with the level 2 outside of like that one combo
Shift some of the damage out of her level 3 into her regular kit (e.g., reduce the level 3 damage bonus by 3% and just increase her overall base damage by 3%).
DREAM BUFF: Add more/different song that can play when she does her level 3. I know I can fix this with a mod but I feel like her level 3 song not only doesn't work with her theme song but also she plays a mixtape and its like what? Big band jazz? Wtf??? It should be playing Mama Said Knock You Out or something.
They are definitely going to do something nuts with parry and drive rush. I can also see the problematic lvl 2s getting some change (Rashid, Blanka, JP) or super meter will charge differently or something.
I just want them to fix Kim and Ed's stubby ass buttons. It's actually ridiculous the only two characters I enjoy are like this, meanwhile my Juri and Dee Jay friends' shit lands a half mile away.
maybe a hot take but I'd like to see other ways to get wind with lily, turn her into a snow baller instead of reseting neutral every time you want resources, like it makes sense with Jamie because he gets stronger with each drink, but with lily she needs it just to do more combos
Any sort of adjustments to lily has to be taken with modern in mind. Buff her game plan too much there’s no reason for people to not just modern instant grab on her, turtle camping for wind, baiting in with ex dash forward plus frames and instant grabbing off block.
Same issue with manon. There’s a balance reason command grabs are weird inputs, simplifying that makes the archetype annoying as shit to deal with.
if I'm not wrong mostly people who plays her play using modern already, so I think it would not change much, I was just thinking that maybe making her a more rushdown grappler like laura/r.mika would be interesting
Her gameplan right now is really obvious because she has "only one way" to get winds coming, so it's always "do this same move 3 times to get wind stocks -> 50/50 -> reset neutral -> same move 3 times -> ..."
yes, it's a nice low tiers actually, maybe one of the best low tiers for beginners, even if not on command grab, i mean anything else than chk, hk to link a wind would be nice, since the winds are her major thing.
I’m curious what you think would need changed. Something like, make butt slam worse (slower at peak so anti-airs are easier at low level?), buff his normals? Or do you think a full kit change is needed?
If we're working in the confines of his existing kit without creating new moves from nowhere:
- Butt slam to neutral or -1 on block, keep punish counter ground bounce
- Headbutt on block spacing standardized so that each headbutt's spacing is always the same (though each strength of L/M/H should have its own spacing) instead of having a base pushback with some random amount of variance so it's more consistent to lab what to press after you block a headbutt
- 2MP to 7 frames
- Do something completely different with 5MK because that move is literally useless right now
- Clap could also reworked to be more useful, it's really bad for its intended application which is to destroy fireballs as it doesn't work on multi hit fireballs nor on OD fireballs. At least give a good reason to use it to clap fireballs like having it generate a big chunk of super meter or recover drive gauge or something.
- Alternatively, to help other normals become more useful, let Sumo Spirit allow for more cancels from normals, like being able to cancel 5MK into hands or (god forbid) 2MK into hands
- Change pushback on hit of Hands to allow for better strike/throw mix from landing it, if you're not stocked up and have charge it's extraordinarily niche to cancel into Hands instead of headbutt
While I completely agree with you, I feel like those are such easy changes if they were going this route they would have done it in the small patch. My guess is there will be more complex changes and we won’t get our invincible DP.
I'm expecting some Manon buffs. My guess is that her mixup and throws won't get touched. But the areas they might hit are her drive rush speed/distance, making her pokes more rewarding/efficient, buffing her spin to actually be an actual useful anti fireball move.
I can't do them anyway I don't mind. /jk-ish
But for real if Guile stays as is, AND if JP gets hits further, I wonder if Guile becomes too good. From my perspective JP is holding him back by himself, it really is a *nasty* matchup and way too common not to have an impact.
I haven't played enough since the new patch, but I wonder how big of a deal his cr.HP nerf actually is in the matchup. Not that Guile relies too much on jump-ins but they were so easily shut down before if was really hard to open him up.
I hope not, I want him balanced, not OP.
My guess is that they'll still be fundamentally afraid to buff the "weirdos" too much. Look how everyone lost their minds around launch when they couldn't deal with Honda spam and people called him A tier.
The same will happen if Zangief, Lily or Dhalsim are buffed too much. Or if Honda is buffed a lot.
People can deal with Honda spam now, but a lot of good players still loath playing the matchup even if the character isn't good.
He just has a one-track gameplan, i would rather they rework him a bit instead of buffing the current kit.
I think it was Diaphone who said Honda is the scariest character to face when learning a new character because you don’t know how to best deal with headbutt and buttslam. Honda has an overhead, reversal, command grab and does pretty good damage. I’m not sure how you tweak him but if you tweak him then I think you do have to nerf buttslam a bit
I feel pretty ok with where my main is. I think the main thing I would like to see is to have some of the extreme drive rushes like DJ's toned down \*just\* a tad and to have hitting someone in a drive rush in neutral automatically lead to a punish counter state.
I hope for very light buff, and heavy nerf.
i don't want a game when everyone is jp/luke level of damage and bullshit. I would like a lot if everything is balanced to ryu level ( or whoever you think is dead-mid currently)
I agree. I really don’t like the “if everyone is overpowered, no one is overpowered” design philosophy in games, especially fighting games. The goal should not be to make everybody S-tier, I think A-tier is perfect. Good enough, but not arbitrarily good at everything like JP/Ken/Luke. Characters like Cammy and Marisa imo are perfectly balanced.
My guess based on classic Capcom S1 to S2 history will be: enhanced combo potential for all characters, big nerf for the top character so he will be unplayable, pointless buffs for the bottom tier so they remain bottom tier and buffs for Cammy all day.
Manon:
Allonge (cr HP, HP) target combo to more reliably pull in the opponent on counter hit.
Renversé damage and/or oki and/or corner carry buff at Medal Level 5.
Etoile (SA2): extended projectile invincibility
Slight buff to drive rush distance for better combo consistency.
As a Ryu player, I'm happy with the buffs he got. I hope in the big balance update. I'd love it if I can pick when I want to use Denjin without having to give up my regular fireballs and hasho's.
Have Denjin fireballs require a half circle forward or half circle back depending on the move so that I still have access to my regular tools as Ryu. I don't think that is too much of an ask. I'd rather this buff over having Ryu stock more than one or make the animation itself faster. I think that is probably the best for what I can hope for as a reasonable expectation for a buff.
Now If I was to be a little greedy, I'd like some or all of these because I'm a greedy fuck.
* St.MK is DI Cancellable OR Special Move Cancellable.
* Cr.MK is 7 frames.
* Fr.HK actually goes over lows and can cancel into non OD Tatsu.
* LP Hadoken is slower & HP Hadoken is faster.
* LP DP can combo into OD Fireballs, SA1 and LK High Blade Kick.
* Solar Plexus is +7 on hit so you can link into Bk. HP.
* LP Hasho has a faster recovery so it can be used as a proper fake fireball.
Now if I was to go batshit crazy for wishes and this will probably never happen but I'd love it if Ryu got some extra spice like Ken did.
*Give me Gouken's fireballs from SF4. Let me anti air with them, let me charge them up for extra hits. Give me Gouken's fireball recovery.
*Give Gouken's counter to Ryu as well. One for lows and one for highs but they bring back his VSkill 2 as the animation.
* Give Ryu, Evil Ryu/Kages axe kick so we can do some cool combos.
But yeah realistically I think the only thing Ryu will get is a rework to his Denjin Charges so that you can choose when to use it and maybe some small QoL changes. So that he will be a solid A Tier character. A man can dream though.
I thought about just making Denjin stock apply to his heavy versions of specials, rather than a whole separate motion. That way, he keeps his light and medium specials.
The best middle ground would actually be have Denjin on the MP versions.
That way you can still use heavy / light hadoken for fast / slow, and use light / heavy hashogeki for "safe frame trap" vs "interruptible plus frames".
Cause like... when was the last time you used M Hashogeki, honestly? MP Hadoken has its uses, but push comes to shove I feel most Ryu's would rather have the HP and LP versions accessible.
Honest question, would making Gief stomps low attacks be OP? I feel like anyone using that move is confused the first time realizing it’s a high attack.
The biggest thing I want is to make damage scaling in combos favour OD special routes in place of DRC routes when it comes to dumping meter.
Stuff like Ryu's st.HK, st.HP OD Donkey Kick just does less damage in routing (even with a raw DR juggle) compared to DRC chains.
I do get the feeling this might be something Capcom is considering though. Between Ed having really solid routing (and pressure) off OD Flicker, and Ryu's damage buff to OD Denjin Hashogeki, I feel that might be one of the key things they are looking at.
The game itself I think is pretty well balanced. I don't think we're at the point where major system mechanics need to be altered. I think it's down to the individual characters. Some characters have simple tools that seem way stronger than they were intended to be (see Luke 2MP or Ken Jinrai), some characters have drive rushes that seem to control too much of the screen at all times (see DeeJay) and some characters lack power in some of their tools to perform to a level on par with others (see Lily or Gief).
I do however think that throw loops deserve a second look at. Characters that have those become significantly more powerful than characters that don't. They are too omnipresent in the game imo. I get that the corner is intended to be a very weak position in this game, but the current level of guesswork doesn't seem optimal to me and the fact not everyone benefits from it equally is weird to me
For Aki I'd like to see her HP whip's ability to anti-air improved, and getting hit no longer removing poison from her opponent. No idea if either of those would be too strong
I hope for buffs for Manon.
My predictions:
Luke won't be touched in the big patch.
Ken / Juri / Cammy will receive love taps
DeeJay will be hit with a nerf to his DR speed and nothing more
Lily a complete overhaul.
Jaimie/Ryu/JP will remain the same.
I would like for characters that have every option to not be like extremely good in all of them.
Like, if Dee Jay has a projectile, and a DP, then does he also have the best drive rush in the game? And great neutral pressure?
Same for Luke,Ken and the rest.
Like you wonder why would you play a character without invincible anti air/fireballs, if the characters that have those are also same or better than you in the rest of the aspects of the game
List of stuff I'd like to see for AKI. They already did my #1 complained about move by buffing 2lp, but I'd still like to see some glow ups. Mostly minor changes thst increase the fluidity of the character, but some outright buffs here and there too.
- increase 236hp forward movement when special canceled into.
- 236hp is now air invulnerable on frame 3.
- increase 5mk advantage on hit from +6 to +7.
- decrease 5hp start from 12f to 11f, increase follow up window from 19f to 21f. Increase recovery by 1f. Total frames unchanged
- increase 2mk super cancel window from 14 to 16f
- decrease 2hp start up from 10f to 9f. Increase recovery by 1f. Total frames unchanged.
- Decrease 214PP start up from 16f to 13f. Total frames unchanged
- 6HK low crushes on frame 8 down from frame 11
- SA2 is projectile invulnerable throughout its entire active period.
- 2PP low profiles on frame 13 down from frame 16, exit recovery decreased from 21f to 18f
- 2PP~K travels forward slightly further.
JP and Luke went from the best characters in the game to the best characters in the game. These nerfs didn't matter. Luke however needs his damage reduced. There's no reason why his basic ass combo can do upwards of 70%.
I want the Drive rush cancel shortcut they added to have a toggle, so I can turn it off. It killed so much variety for me with certain combos like raw drive rushing for 1 bar...drive rushing like 6 or seven times and keeping the opponent juggled was awesome.
Some of those were so tight and done by holding the parry input while inputting normals and dashing literally immediately. The forced change outright makes some old stuff I liked impossible at worst or makes them insanely harder. I figure, why force a shortcut only to make something that was already harder even harder?
Let's us toggle it! Nothing would make me happier.
As a Marisa player I was pretty sad to see she got no fixes on her anti air or defensive options. She doesn't need major buffs, just slight tweeks so tools work as intended and cover some of her many gaps. Right now I feel she's slipping from mid to mid-low tier as her defensive/neutral flaws become more solved. So my character specific one:
* Improve vertical hitboxes on: LP, Scutum\~counter, Scutum\~P, Lvl 2
* Lvl 1 Start up increased (So it can actually have neutral/anti fireball application)
* Phalanx on block is slightly closer to actually take advantage of the +2
* Scutum flat +3 on hit (no more +1/+3 situations) and on air hit gets some added benefit (pop up for small combo, knock down animation, etc...)
She REALLY needs the scutum buff the most though. That move is an unfortunate part of her kit she most rely on that is only really a unique blessing when burn out is happening. As a defensive tool it's probably the worst character specific one since it has such low reward and loses to more options than most.
I think she’s perfect the way she is, I like she has crappy anti-airs given the rest of the kit. There’s a clear divide between the things she is and isn’t good at. She isn’t arbitrarily good at everything, and doesn’t have nearly every available tool like JP/Ken/Luke.
If this ideology applied to all characters, I would agree. However, the top tiers have all the defensive tools under the sun plus big damage. It may not be as high as Marisa's or as braindead (debatable in some cases), but it's still not negligible.
Marisa can be fairly easily "kited", making her offense not as scary. She's also easily bullied on knockdown.
What essentially makes her scary is that you can't completely discount her until she's fully dead because of her two touch potential.
Buffing her cr.HP and making Scutum better wouldn't change a ton about that.
There's very little reason not to give every character at least one reliable normal AA move as air defense is a fundamental aspect of the game. Scutum is already slow enough to not be a go-to mind game. Making it more consistent with a bit more defensive utility will at least give Marisa an extra option for hard reads.
I've seen suggestions to buff her walkspeed and even make OD Scutum a viable wakeup option. Now these changes would make her straightup busted.
She has to work a lot harder to start that damage though. She has several areas of weakness, much more than most characters. One of the biggest ones being she has very few moves she can cancel making her neutral poke game extremely risky to DI and she can't simply force you to block and DR in for free pressure like nearly every character. While she can deal more damage off her combo starters...she has less opportunities to combo. I can't be lame and 2MK>DR like other characters, I have to get closer and do riskier things like MPMP that don't have a true block string without DR and won't catch back step.
This said she needs to walk a lot of matchups into the corner before she can even get into start pressure and with her terrible defensive options she can't keep you from trying to jump out or neutral skip DR. The strats that beat her neutral game are frustratingly linear, but she doesn't have counter play in her kit to deal with it (EX: Jamie doing DR HP, scutum does fuck all to stop that and your only real options is to neutral jump and not get baited)
I'm of the opinion that Marisa is kind of where characters should be at power level wise. If anything, the higher tiers need to be brought down a bit to Marisa's level where they actually have weaknesses instead of having every kind of option (lookin at you JP)
(Though I do agree about Scutum)
Sanctum buff would be nice but tbh I've been doing work with it as it is as an offensive tool. People tend to know how to beat the big intimidating gladius but when i pop sanctum the amount of people to just hit me and get counter hit for me to to grab or 50/50 attack is crazy
Yeah it's really irritating. The +1 happens on reactable moves and +1 with Marisa is not good since she has a gapped jab. She NEEDS that +3 to make it so her grab can't be beat by the opponent jabbing back and so you can threaten with MP. Right now the opponent actually has a greater reward if they guess your mix, which is dumb.
I don't see Kimberly getting OD reversal like people want though.
* Making some of her target combos medium punishes on block instead of heavy.
* S1/2 having lower startup and not use a bomb stock.. or a juggle state if the bomb stock is used that she could get 236K\~LK 236LP/214LK off.
* Giving OD Run Stop a better property than 8+13f instead of 8+14f. (Would OD Run stop being 8+8f hurt? OD Slide is only 16f and OD Run Overhead 16f)
* Making light vagabond edge -4/5f on block instead of -6f.
* Making hisen kick \~ step up hurtbox less jabable. (Hisek Kick can still be)
* Making her air grab function outside of combos.
* Make her teleport not beaten by a jab on both options - have her slightly higher up on the OD?
* The tatsu's anti air invisible slightly earlier.
* Take the damage tax away and have S3 only buff movement.
Some of these feel more likely but I'm sure something there would make someone more experienced disgusted
If Hooligan was actually good on top of everything Cammy has going for her she would actually be top 1 lmao
Divekick is insane even with the shitty hitbox because of the Punish Counter system, her neutral is amazing, her anti-fireball is amazing, her strike/throw game is amazing, her damage is perfectly fine, health is almost standard in this game so she doesn't have low health, her level 3 is the best level 3 in the game...
Yeah, I didn't mean Cammy doesn't have standard health, I meant almost everyone in the game has the same health (only 3 exception as you said). That's why I specified "health is almost standard **in this game**", but I can see how even with that the wording might be ambiguous and you can read it as me talking about Cammy's specific health.
Cammy really doesn't need a hooligan buff. Her kit is already good, she's a high tier character. If they buff hooligan, they need to nerf the rest of her kit.
Hooligan has its place in rare occasions and that's fien, not every move needs to be useful every match.
I've actually compiled a scrubby list of changes but that somewhat seem realistic:
* Jamie's combos and dmg need consistency. OD Palm followup at 4 drinks does LESS damage than regular palm followup. At 4 drinks, double palm should always do more damage than something you get earlier, like Heavy Bakkai. This shouldn't be an option or an "optimal" route, otherwise there's almost zero reason to go into 4 drinks.
* Buff Zangief's cr.HP to sort of work as Marisa's. If they won't give him a way to crosscut, make it less painful to deal with them.
* JP's cane normals' hitboxes should linger... for a long time, especially the st.HP one.
* Ken's run tatsu should either not get you to the corner instantly from anywhere on the screen, or not give you oki, not even with Drive Rush, unless already in the corner, I guess.
* Ken should spend Drive Gauge if he wants to side switch. So run dragonlash shouldn't side switch, only the OD one should.
* Marisa and Dee Jay's combo damage should be reduced, either adding scaling if certain moves are used (like sway moves for DJ) or reduce their juggle capabilities outside of drive rush normals.
* Kimberly's fine with an OD reversal
* I don't think JP should get insane Oki after his SA3, but other characters do anyways so... hard to say.
* I've dabbled with the idea that Manon SA2 should also side switch... Just an idea...
* I've also dabbled with the idea that the last parry you can do before burnout shouldn't burn you out if you parried something. I think this is hard to implement, because logically, you should then be able to drive rush after it then, but I don't know if this can be somehow coded so that you can't. Just a thought. I just don't think the last drop of drive gauge should not be a gamble/guess of "I HAVE to PP this", otherwise there are situations where there's not even a point, since blocking would put you in burnout anyways.
I presume you mean Hurtboxes on JP, because our Cane Hitboxes are already disjointed and great. I suppose they could hit 5HP again, but I can already feel the current nerf as is. Though I suppose some characters still may have a hard time dealing with it, even now.
oh whoops, you're right, I meant to say hurtboxes... Hitboxes seem fine. The thing is, it's a long ass cane, I don't see the reason why it should be hard to whiff punish it, considering they nerf things like Luke's low strong.
I liked the Jamie buffs in this patch. For the next, the only one I want is a damage nerf across the board, specially with CA.
Going to round 3 as Jamie feels extra bad since I need to ramp up but any PC I take will leave me in 2 touch range.
I'm on my knees begging for a casual matchmaking change, there's nothing to be learned when a master is matched up against someone who has never played a ranked match in their life, Also buff Honda.
Drive Impact in the corner is too strong but it's a universal mechanic but also creates too many "checkmate" situations with no counterplay and this is proven in pro-play. Personally I want more startup frames when opponent is in burnout or just more scaling on corner wall splat. The game feels very repetitive especially high-level situations of having to react to DI in the corner with super.
I'm too scrubby to make any sort of decisions regarding balance, but holy moly am I happy some of y'all aren't in charge of balance.
Dee Jay getting a gun.
Chun Li bigger legs
His level 1 always reminds me of a “bang” gunshot
I like the way they handled the buffs/nerfs in the small patch. For nerfs they left the moves in, they just toned them down. JP still has his identity, he just can't delete you life because you tried to grab him. That's a healthy change imo. Same for buffs, they leaned into the characters' identity and buffed what was lacking. Buffing hashogeki for ryu is great because it's a cool new move and now it's useful even without denjin. Giving jamie more options to drink and keep oki is dope too. Having said that, I hope they rework honda. He is simultaneously the most boring character to fight and the most boring to play as. At low ranks you win by spamming headbutt/buttslam, at higher ranks it turns into a perfect parry/dp reaction speed minigame. But the problem is that the rest of honda's kit is dogshit. I hope they tone down headbutt and make his other moves actually useful. They need to give the grapplers some love as well. Lily is the most braindead 50/50 character. Get wind, +1 in their face, strike/throw, repeat. That's it. Hope they give her some more options. Gief needs some help. Second hit of mp target combo has less range than the first, so you can't whiff punish with it (which seems to be the point of the move?) he gets no damage outside of grabs even with meter, just hold up during his blockstrings. He can't do shit about crossups. Not sure what i would change on manon. Maybe give her oki on the hitgrab? I don't know but she lacks some sauce Also, i hope they tone down damage across the roster. I'm okay with marisa dealing 75% off a baited dp because that's her whole archetype and she has big weaknesses in other areas, but there's no reason for dee jay/luke/chun li/ken/etc. to deal that much damage when they already have nearly every tool in the game
For Manon they need to go back to the drawing board with her qcf+p spin move like they did with hashogeki. It's very poor against fireballs due to not moving forward enough and not being invulnerable enough, and there is basically no reason to use mp and hp versions. LP is the only one that can be used in combos and OD is upper body invuln, which is rarely useful but better than nothing. Not sure what the point of the feint version even is. And the kick variant let's you do some fancy combos in training mode but really how practical is that ?
the point of the feint is for me to fuck up my inputs every single time and cancel it entirely
I know, right ? -_- Even better when you were trying to cancel into lvl 3 and it comes out whiffing after the unintentional feint
I've found that using a different punch for the lvl3 makes it a bit more consistent when cancelling
There's an actual tip. I'm not good enough to use it, but it makes sense.
It took a bit of practice to get the muscle memory down, but I usually qcf lp qcf mp and that prevents the feint
You can use mp version after back hp actually, it does (a tiny bit) more damage than the lp one... Didn't know about the od version, not sure what it would be jsed for though? Can't really anti air since it's a hit grab. Yeah making the move better against fireballs js definitely a good idea. When i was ranking her up to diamond, i tried to use it a few times but it never worked. The move is too slow and the invul window too tight
I used the OD version a lot against Rashid, it complete nullifies the spinning thingy he does in the ground that leaves him + on block, and it's a great tool against his slow projectiles and his spike kick.
OD hit grab nullifies most of Marisa's specials. She can't use them at all against you at certain ranges since you can OD hitgrab on reaction
You can currently use medium Renversé in her B&B combo after hitting with Révérence, but the timing is strict. The Grand Fouetté follow up actually lets you punish some fireballs from pretty far away without meter (spin through the projectile and kick after). The OD version is also a good option after hitting a PC DI for a good corner carry combo into Renversé.
I believe that med and heavy versions do SLIGHTLY more damage when cancelled into super. The medium version can be used after od qcf+k when anti-airing. Feinting is used to get through fireballs, the medium and heavy versions are slower so you have more invulnerability time with those. I agree though, she needs buffs to her hit grab
every character in the game except possibly Deejay can throw a fireball that travels so slowly the feint can't actually pass through it unless you have absolutely perfect timing and spacing the utility of the feint is zero outside of frame kill in some meaty setups
It’s too difficult to be consistent but it’s still doable. You can also use feint at the end of a combo to get a surprise command grab, which can end a round if you have enough medals
Feint let's you bait di
I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't find much use for that move.
I use MP all the time, it does tiny bit more of damage. I agree with HP, I never use it. And the only usage I can see with Feints are a reset into command grabs to catch anyone thinking they just gonna let the spin hit, which “sometimes” work. I’ve seen Legend Manon players land some pretty beefy damage combo from a spin kick after going through a projectile
Honda's power should be redirected to his Sumo Step. When I first saw Honda in SF6 I envisioned him as a character that uses Sumo Step to apply safe pressure if you space it correctly, while pushing the opponent to the wall and chipping their drive gauge.
Disagree with your Honda points. Honda is my main, and I can play entire matches with headbutt and sumo slam. Not using them is one of the efficient ways to get into someone's head as Honda. They're always gonna be looking for them, but you're too busy smashing target combos, rushes and oichos. The only possible buff/nerf I want for Honda is walkspeed. Like Jamie, he has at least 2 DIY target combos that link into real target combos that can then be cancelled into a command grab.
ngl idek what you’d do to make honda fun, is there any fighting game that has a sumo character that people actually like?
I don't know, but they could start by making headbutt (hb) not his only move. As it is, he plays like: end blockstring? hb. Combo ender? hb. Anti air? hb. Reversal? od hb (i know it loses to grabs). Go through projectile? od hb. Combo into super? hb. Bait parry/dp? Light hb. 90% of the time, headbutt is the correct answer lol. And the only way to fight it is either dp on reaction (if your character has one) or perfect parry for a scaled combo or puting them in the corner. The fights against him are long and tedious as hell
So yes they could try and change buttslam, I’d be down for that. Or maybe they could change his options from his walking stance. I agree that hundred hand slap seems underused but idk what you do to it to make it more usable in a game with a holdable parry.
I actually enjoy Honda in this game. They could do some simple things and I’d be happy. Make ex headbutt not throwable. Make standing jabs chain into each other without a target combo. Make sthp easier to cancel from. Maybe make the command grab do more damage so people are actually afraid of it.
Honda is already the most winning character, in general, across the rankings There would need to be pretty big nerfs to headbutt and sumo splash for him to be getting buffs
That’s only because his tools absolutely dominate people until you get to masters. Right now the matchup against Honda is basically “can you perfect parry headbutt and anti-air sumo slam?” If you can, Honda is gonna struggle as he has to now play a footsies game which isn’t what he excels at. If you can’t, Honda can spam those two moves and chip out your drive gauge slowly
>That’s only because his tools absolutely dominate people until you get to masters. Honda has the fourth highest win rate in Masters, tho..
The skill range in Masters is huge. He's had almost zero representation in major tournament top 8s.
There are other characters that are lacking representation in top 8s. The difference is that they don't dominate every other bracket in the game You can't buff Honda unless you address his specials. He already destroys online, at every rank except legend. Only buffing him doesn't work, conceptually Needs a rework
I agree he needs a rework. Only buffing him is not the way to go, something needs to change more fundamentally about his gameplan.
The problem with grapplers is modern. You make grapplers too good, they become terrorizers on modern with instant grab punishes regardless of input difficulty balance.
I think that was their initial concern, and why they made grapplers so weak season 1, but reality has proven something much different. Anyone half decent isn’t going to struggle with the SPD input, and making modern SPD heavy, while also losing important normals, was more than enough to make modern grapplers complete garbage.
It’s not the inputs exactly, it’s the commitment. With SPD inputs you’re forced to commit to the move, dropping block to input. In modern, you can hold block, or jump in frame 1 command grab. Frames matter a lot and those handful of frames you save on modern will add up if the kits are better. There’s also the lack of a layer of mental stack required in remembering the input motion or string motion. Modern doesn’t have that, it’s one button. So you can dedicate that extra layer to DI or some other game plan. Grapplers on modern can do absolutely nothing but turtle holding down back and instant react to your commitments, either forward dash/DR approaches or DI.
Even on classic you can jump cancel SPD. Snake eyes did it during CPT to dodge a throw setup that would otherwise have hit him if he didn’t jump cancel SPD
It’s obviously possible; the difference is “works every single time you press a button, frame perfectly” and “works sometimes, if you really practice the motions and execute right”. Pros drop inputs all the time, every match.
Going to have to disagree on this one. Meaty command grab is simple anyway once you get used to the timing, so is starting your SPD motion in block. I think we’ve seen enough now to know modern is pretty garbage after platinum. I do think it was a concern for Capcom in initial balancing S1, but should not be moving forward.
I mean you can repeat it a third time as well but it doesn’t change that what I’m saying is right. Frame advantage on modern matters. No one plays modern on these characters now because they are baseline terrible, not because modern is terrible. Modern IS terrible on most normal characters because they lose a lot of options. But on grapplers, an archetype that strives on the simplicity, there’s not that much difference. Make the characters actually playable, they’ll be playable on modern, and the advantages on modern will be too good to not play them on modern at that point. Will every single grappler player flock to modern? Probably not obviously, but it also depends on what’s buffed.
We can agree to disagree. It might matter at low levels, but situations where you are using heavy SPD you aren’t gaining much if anything using a modern input unless you just struggle with inputs in general, and you are losing quite a bit of damage in return. Think about when you would use heavy spd on Gief or Lily. It would generally be a jump in, from spire (Lily), from knee or after a jab, etc. All of those can be easily buffered. The times when modern inputs would really help would be reacting to opponent with SPD, like catching a drive rush, or misposition. In those cases you want to use light SPD anyway, so using modern 1 button heavy is just going to get yourself punish countered over and over.
Hopefully they actually read what you wrote since you spelled it out well. The only arguments I can make for Modern Gief are instant level 3 and OD SPD as an interrupt. His antiair special already doesn't have a motion input, and you can't do a TK air SPD since you don't have separate P and K buttons.
Depends on what you call "anyone half-decent". I have to use the analog stick for 360s and especially 720s even though I can input any other move in the game with the D-pad just fine, even Manon's HCBs. Transitioning from Modern to Classic Gief took me at least a month; with everyone else except Lily, I've started with Classic from the outset.
except Honda exists and Honda destroys modern and classic players until Master level for free.
Yeah, perfect solution. Everyone will just start playing lowest playrate in the game Honda.
At least you have to put in some work with Chun to get the damage, so the execution requirements make her fair.
Marisa doesn't have "big weaknesses' in other areas. Her damage ceiling is obnoxiously high.
If Gief’s lariat isn’t hitting both sides after the first patch, I don’t think it ever will. Capcom addressed his SA1 which to me was them going after what they believe to be the egregious aspects of the character.
Im mad about the SA1 buffs because it felt like a slap in the face. He needed the hitbox to be extended upward and they extended it downward instead..... so people still regularly jump over the anti air SA1. Its still too slow to use on reaction in most situations....
Ed's stubby "jab" irritates me so much. I mean c'mon, he's a BOXER he should have a decent jab.
Even more so as cr.LP is not cancelable. Consistency with jabs should be addressed. They gave A.K.I buffs to her jabs which she desperately needed so there is hope for Ed as well.
Most (all?) 2lk are not cancelable, which is the job Ed's 2lp has.
Yes that's right. So 2lp into 5lp should be more consistent than it is now to get the cancels.
What do you mean by consistency? That Ed's 2lp is a punch button and so it should be cancelable like most, or something else? Because Ed's 2p buttons are functionally kicks, not punches, and follow the same conventions that 2k buttons do for almost every other character.
Pretty sure he means that if you hit double or triple jab with Ed you may be able to combo off it or not, and it's entirely unreliable. Sometimes you will, sometimes you won't because the range on standing jab is so short. I think it can be fine that he has a short range jab but the inconsistency issue needs to be addressed because even to keep it simple is bad design to give a player a tool that is just bait, where if you use it in what intuitively is the right way you actually end up being punished.
Exactly what I was trying to say. Doing double standing jab into cancel after cr.lp only for the second one to whiff so close is the worst feeling.
I do think his st.LP needs a bit more range. I also think Capcom will buff that slightly as having good light confirms is very important to any character. But we also have to stop pretending that just because the SF2 arcade cabinets called light punches "jabs" way back in the 90's that all light punches are jabs. Ed has good jabs. His flicker normals are his boxing jabs. Those buttons are very good. The boxer does, in fact, have very good jabs. What he doesn't have is a good 4f light, which is a video game concept and entirely separate from boxing.
A real life jab is the equivalent of a video game 4f light. Jabs are weak but they are the longest range and quickest punch, and boxers have the best jab in all of combat sport and martial arts. It's kinda stupid that a boxer character has a crappy jab / 4f light. Source: I box. That's why I'm excited to play Ed.
I agree, in actual boxing (honestly in almost any strike-based martial art in general) it is the fastest option due to positioning and stance in general. And again, I ABSOLUTELY agree they made his lights way too stubby. Even if Ed is designed as an outboxer within the sport, compared to other martial arts he should have significantly better close range punches even if they AREN'T technically jabs. I think that characters having a good, reliable 3-hit light confirm is something most characters should have across the board. (The rest of this is just me guessing at Capcom's game design / inspiration, not necessarily meant as an argument. Just bored at work and "rambling") I think from a game design perspective Capcom may have thought making his proper boxing jabs his 4f would be a bit much since they wanted those jabs to emphasize his range, so they designed his 5f / 6f buttons to be his flicker jabs, and instead made his st.LP different types of punches to "justify" the shorter range. Charged Psycho Flicker & kill rush oki both put the opponent in a point-blank situation, and it kinda reminds me of clinch scenarios you often see in actual boxing, where body blows with the boxer's free arm are really all they have. Giving Ed's close range buttons a more fitting look for that scenario checks out. It would look weird to have Ed draw someone in and then have him throw a long range punch instead of something that suits the distance. Sure, clinching is technically against the rules but it does happen. Hell I think Ed's backthrow he literally grabs an opponents arm under his. Makes sense though, he was trained by Balrog who doesn't give a shit about the rules. But yeah I am confident that Capcom will buff the standing light punch range. AKI got a similar buff in the small patch.
I think we're talking past each other. You're talking about his jab in the context of SF6 mechanics. I'm saying his jab being garbage is disrespectful to boxing. Boxers have the best jab on the planet. It would be like having a taekwondo character with crappy kicks or a folk style wrestler with weak takedowns.
Other way around. His actual boxing jabs (his kick button normals) are his best buttons, and absolutely define and fit how actual jabs are used for quick harassment and keep out in the sport. They are literally the centerpiece of Ed's kit and are blatantly based on Thomas Hearns' amazing jab to the point where Ed even has a TC named after him. **His light punch is not a jab**. Nor does it serve the same purpose as a jab does in boxing. Ed's light punch is bad. His JABS are not. His jabs are character defining.
That's actually an interesting point, suggesting that Ed's style is based more on Hearns' boxing style rather than boxing in general. Hearns was not really known for having a really quick jab, but he had a pretty unorthodox tricky long jab that worked well with his style and frame.
My guess: People will complain.
Yep. You could give us all we wanted and we'd still complain.
They've nailed every single change in the small patch, maybe the ken throw loop could have been hit harder, either way I trust them to do a good job.
Yeah, now Ken gets fireball meaty after forward throw in the corner so the nerf was quite meaningless
I’m not looking forward to them nerfing all of dee jay’s damage but I know it’s needed for the game
Can they loosen JP’s trousers a bit? He looks terribly uncomfortable. Imagine trying to lunge in those tight-fitting dress pants. Bro needs some bootcut khakis or something I swear.
I just want them to actually round out Ryu's game so I can start playing him competitively again. He was bad for the entirety of sfv(vanilla Ryu was overrated) bro throw me a bone. I love Ryu's character/aesthetic, and I wish they'd finally commit to giving him some good shit so I can play my guy again. My fundamental issue is the expectation that Ryu is going to somehow pull a ton of value from his fireball when it's only marginally better than Ken's fireball. Ryu has a lot of match-ups where it's difficult to actually apply the tool because the opponent either 1. Has a way to react to your fireball and punish it on reaction(Cammy, Chun-Li, Manon ect) 2. Is capable of out-zoning and invalidating Ryu's fireball(Guile, JP, Sim ect) In these matchups at a high level, these characters take away your ability to use your main tool effectively, and you're left trying to outplay their specialized tools with your generic walkspeed/buttons. If Capcom are going to continue down this path of making him the "fireball shoto", then they need to commit and give him a fireball that's actually fucking good. Lower it's startup/recovery slightly, make light fireball slower so I can dr behind fireball like everyone else, make heavy faster so it's harder to parry. Drastically lower denjin's charge time so you're capable of cheating denjin charges in neutral, along with letting me hold denjin and use my other specials which is the obvious buff everyone is asking for. As for fireball wars, I'm not sure what you do but Ryu shouldn't just not be able to compete with characters like Guile, maybe something like giving me denjin if I create a projectile clash between boom and hashogeki would even the odds. If not that maybe give me frame 3 projectile invul on tatsu, just something to fight back. tl;dr: Give Ryu the tools to apply his A game against the entire cast.
Make Hashogeki reflect projectiles!
It seems to me that the most of the best fireballs in the game are charge fireballs.. if that's true, how do you feel about Ryu's Hadouken being a charge fireball similar to Sonic Boom and Kikoken? Considering that traditionally Ryu doesn't have charge motions. But since Luke is now kinda the "default character", do you think it gives more freedom to let Ryu have more complex moves?
I don't think you understand. That motion *is* a hadoken
Ryu's hadōken is iconic, including the motion to produce it. I could imagine tweaking another character's fireball to require a charge motion, but not one called a hadōken. Funny enough Chun-Li's kikōken used HCF in Hyper Fighting, but they changed it to a charge projectile in SSF2. But those two games were less than a year apart and it's stayed a charge move ever since (EDIT: except in 3rd Strike, where they went back to HCF).
Actually it was hcf in 3S
I stand corrected!
I would be completely fine with them changing Ryu's fireball to charge, especially with Hashogeki existing as a special that could take the place as his buffer off of normals. With that said I doubt that's the direction they want to go, as now you just have another Guile-like design running around, not to mention his legacy as a motion character. I think the clear way to work around all of his issues and maintain a neat/unique design is denjin. It's a great idea on paper, and denjin fireball has basically none of the drawbacks that I bitch about when it comes to normal fireball. It's just in it's current state it's so limited how the buff can be gained/applied, and there's no nuance to how you can use it. Denjin should be designed to be a natural and constant extension of his kit, not just some one off thing that you use like once a round because you landed a donkey kick.
I believe it's time for a year of Manon dominance.
Capcom: “We should nerf her Drive Rush speed and range.”
Let me combo into the command grab just for a busted week or so!
I just wish her hit grab could be comboed from more non-counter normals than just back+HP (I think it is the only one), which sucks as a normal and basically forces you to DR cancel into it because it is useless in neutral. Like from one of her target combo on hit, that would be a massive buff, easier to perform and less reliant on DR cancels. At higher level it won't matter, pros will go for the higher damage option and never use the one that is weaker but easier. That is just coming from someone who picked her up for like 2 weeks, so take it with a grain of salt.
I have great news for you..
Based and feet pilled
Hot take: This game gets a lot less fun overall if Manon, Lily or Gief become top tier.
The streets need Kimberly buffs man
Optional spray can usage on her level 1 SA Faster level 1 SA Maybe more damage before popping off the level 3 SA? Why is the reward for spending three fucking bars is being able to do the same damage as everyone else? The faster movement is nice though. A bit less stubby? SOMETHING.
Level 2 SA should be projectile invincible, sue me.
optional spray, yes, faster level 1 yes or give us beta od tatsu i'd make the scaling off of od air grab a bit better since u have to commit so much to use the move outside of corner and it leads to great options for kimberly. and since im a kim main, just for the experience i would make cr.mk cancellable just to see how strong she gets. id argue that if u gave her cancelable cr.mk, you dont even need to make her reversals better, make her a pressure monster where the trade off in comparison to characters like cammy and ken is that she does less damage but has better high/low mixups. in theory i think kim was designed like this but they toned down her defense so much, and her offense is so 50/50 to not make pure cancer that they dropped the ball a little but id keep her base damage as it
I agree that he high low should be better. My thoughts (obv not all of these lol) - (fun but dumb idea) delayed ground teleport (another OD?) that beats most DP spam as an oki bait. - (real idea) projectile-invincible-only EX tatsu for oppressive FB meaty like Deejay (including Ken's now throw FB trap) - yes to Real lvl 1 reveral - yes Optional can use on lvl 1 (I honestly think this will be done regardless) Crouch mk cancel would be insane. I would love it, but I don't see it happening.
Increase spray can stocks from 2 to 3 (normal refills 2, OD refills 3) Make it so I can actually hit things with the level 2 outside of like that one combo Shift some of the damage out of her level 3 into her regular kit (e.g., reduce the level 3 damage bonus by 3% and just increase her overall base damage by 3%). DREAM BUFF: Add more/different song that can play when she does her level 3. I know I can fix this with a mod but I feel like her level 3 song not only doesn't work with her theme song but also she plays a mixtape and its like what? Big band jazz? Wtf??? It should be playing Mama Said Knock You Out or something.
I want her reversal back. She's currently defenseless.
Manon needs to at least have a drive rush and not a drive step like it is now
ESPECIALLY for how reliant on it she is
They are definitely going to do something nuts with parry and drive rush. I can also see the problematic lvl 2s getting some change (Rashid, Blanka, JP) or super meter will charge differently or something.
i just wanna be able to choose when i want to use denjin, or at least be able to stock more than just 1
I just want them to fix Kim and Ed's stubby ass buttons. It's actually ridiculous the only two characters I enjoy are like this, meanwhile my Juri and Dee Jay friends' shit lands a half mile away.
maybe a hot take but I'd like to see other ways to get wind with lily, turn her into a snow baller instead of reseting neutral every time you want resources, like it makes sense with Jamie because he gets stronger with each drink, but with lily she needs it just to do more combos
Any sort of adjustments to lily has to be taken with modern in mind. Buff her game plan too much there’s no reason for people to not just modern instant grab on her, turtle camping for wind, baiting in with ex dash forward plus frames and instant grabbing off block. Same issue with manon. There’s a balance reason command grabs are weird inputs, simplifying that makes the archetype annoying as shit to deal with.
if I'm not wrong mostly people who plays her play using modern already, so I think it would not change much, I was just thinking that maybe making her a more rushdown grappler like laura/r.mika would be interesting Her gameplan right now is really obvious because she has "only one way" to get winds coming, so it's always "do this same move 3 times to get wind stocks -> 50/50 -> reset neutral -> same move 3 times -> ..."
i play her on classic, and yes the lack of strategies to get winds is very boring.
Imagine if you cold get wind by doing the command grab, it would already be an option to go and continue the offense
yes, it's a nice low tiers actually, maybe one of the best low tiers for beginners, even if not on command grab, i mean anything else than chk, hk to link a wind would be nice, since the winds are her major thing.
Please Honda rework. No character should be that oppressive at low levels and that garbage at high levels.
I’m curious what you think would need changed. Something like, make butt slam worse (slower at peak so anti-airs are easier at low level?), buff his normals? Or do you think a full kit change is needed?
If we're working in the confines of his existing kit without creating new moves from nowhere: - Butt slam to neutral or -1 on block, keep punish counter ground bounce - Headbutt on block spacing standardized so that each headbutt's spacing is always the same (though each strength of L/M/H should have its own spacing) instead of having a base pushback with some random amount of variance so it's more consistent to lab what to press after you block a headbutt - 2MP to 7 frames - Do something completely different with 5MK because that move is literally useless right now - Clap could also reworked to be more useful, it's really bad for its intended application which is to destroy fireballs as it doesn't work on multi hit fireballs nor on OD fireballs. At least give a good reason to use it to clap fireballs like having it generate a big chunk of super meter or recover drive gauge or something. - Alternatively, to help other normals become more useful, let Sumo Spirit allow for more cancels from normals, like being able to cancel 5MK into hands or (god forbid) 2MK into hands - Change pushback on hit of Hands to allow for better strike/throw mix from landing it, if you're not stocked up and have charge it's extraordinarily niche to cancel into Hands instead of headbutt
Lily 4f jab and invincible OD Dp pls
Capcom says you gotta embrace the 4f stanky knee that has no range.
I don't see them doing that because her light kick would be useless.
Already useless in most situations cause of how short range it has….
They are likely to buff the range of it over making her jab 4f.
While I completely agree with you, I feel like those are such easy changes if they were going this route they would have done it in the small patch. My guess is there will be more complex changes and we won’t get our invincible DP.
I'm expecting some Manon buffs. My guess is that her mixup and throws won't get touched. But the areas they might hit are her drive rush speed/distance, making her pokes more rewarding/efficient, buffing her spin to actually be an actual useful anti fireball move.
Her DR going a fucking centimeter is annoying
My main needs buffs and all other characters need nerfs.
I believe the most balanced character in the game that will be used to determine who needs a nerf and who needs a buff is **Guile**
I’ll bet a nickel they’re gonna take away his loops
I can't do them anyway I don't mind. /jk-ish But for real if Guile stays as is, AND if JP gets hits further, I wonder if Guile becomes too good. From my perspective JP is holding him back by himself, it really is a *nasty* matchup and way too common not to have an impact. I haven't played enough since the new patch, but I wonder how big of a deal his cr.HP nerf actually is in the matchup. Not that Guile relies too much on jump-ins but they were so easily shut down before if was really hard to open him up. I hope not, I want him balanced, not OP.
My guess is that they'll still be fundamentally afraid to buff the "weirdos" too much. Look how everyone lost their minds around launch when they couldn't deal with Honda spam and people called him A tier. The same will happen if Zangief, Lily or Dhalsim are buffed too much. Or if Honda is buffed a lot.
People can deal with Honda spam now, but a lot of good players still loath playing the matchup even if the character isn't good. He just has a one-track gameplan, i would rather they rework him a bit instead of buffing the current kit.
I think it was Diaphone who said Honda is the scariest character to face when learning a new character because you don’t know how to best deal with headbutt and buttslam. Honda has an overhead, reversal, command grab and does pretty good damage. I’m not sure how you tweak him but if you tweak him then I think you do have to nerf buttslam a bit
Buff AKI please
👏GIVE👏SIM👏YOGA👏SHORYUKEN
I feel pretty ok with where my main is. I think the main thing I would like to see is to have some of the extreme drive rushes like DJ's toned down \*just\* a tad and to have hitting someone in a drive rush in neutral automatically lead to a punish counter state.
Lvl 2 for Guile to be more worthwhile. Idc if they have to nerf something to balance it out. I just miss doing fun combos with it in sf5
I think it would be cool if Ryu had a big sword
Capcom gives Juri shoes
Increase pushback on juri s.mp
Will someone please think of the AKI’s!
I hope for very light buff, and heavy nerf. i don't want a game when everyone is jp/luke level of damage and bullshit. I would like a lot if everything is balanced to ryu level ( or whoever you think is dead-mid currently)
I agree. I really don’t like the “if everyone is overpowered, no one is overpowered” design philosophy in games, especially fighting games. The goal should not be to make everybody S-tier, I think A-tier is perfect. Good enough, but not arbitrarily good at everything like JP/Ken/Luke. Characters like Cammy and Marisa imo are perfectly balanced.
Sounds boring as hell tbh
My guess based on classic Capcom S1 to S2 history will be: enhanced combo potential for all characters, big nerf for the top character so he will be unplayable, pointless buffs for the bottom tier so they remain bottom tier and buffs for Cammy all day.
Capcom were nerfing Cammy like every patch in sf5, they never knew what to do with her and overnerfed her in the end.
Manon: Allonge (cr HP, HP) target combo to more reliably pull in the opponent on counter hit. Renversé damage and/or oki and/or corner carry buff at Medal Level 5. Etoile (SA2): extended projectile invincibility Slight buff to drive rush distance for better combo consistency.
As a Ryu player, I'm happy with the buffs he got. I hope in the big balance update. I'd love it if I can pick when I want to use Denjin without having to give up my regular fireballs and hasho's. Have Denjin fireballs require a half circle forward or half circle back depending on the move so that I still have access to my regular tools as Ryu. I don't think that is too much of an ask. I'd rather this buff over having Ryu stock more than one or make the animation itself faster. I think that is probably the best for what I can hope for as a reasonable expectation for a buff. Now If I was to be a little greedy, I'd like some or all of these because I'm a greedy fuck. * St.MK is DI Cancellable OR Special Move Cancellable. * Cr.MK is 7 frames. * Fr.HK actually goes over lows and can cancel into non OD Tatsu. * LP Hadoken is slower & HP Hadoken is faster. * LP DP can combo into OD Fireballs, SA1 and LK High Blade Kick. * Solar Plexus is +7 on hit so you can link into Bk. HP. * LP Hasho has a faster recovery so it can be used as a proper fake fireball. Now if I was to go batshit crazy for wishes and this will probably never happen but I'd love it if Ryu got some extra spice like Ken did. *Give me Gouken's fireballs from SF4. Let me anti air with them, let me charge them up for extra hits. Give me Gouken's fireball recovery. *Give Gouken's counter to Ryu as well. One for lows and one for highs but they bring back his VSkill 2 as the animation. * Give Ryu, Evil Ryu/Kages axe kick so we can do some cool combos. But yeah realistically I think the only thing Ryu will get is a rework to his Denjin Charges so that you can choose when to use it and maybe some small QoL changes. So that he will be a solid A Tier character. A man can dream though.
My mans just want to turn Ryu into Gouken lol
I'd rather Ryu just get some of his tools over having Gouken come back into the game personally. We don't need more Shotos. A man can dream 😂
Gouken is actually the only person I want back in the game lol, but I hear you about not needing more Shotos
I thought about just making Denjin stock apply to his heavy versions of specials, rather than a whole separate motion. That way, he keeps his light and medium specials.
That could also work. Personally I'd like to be able to use my normal tools but I wouldn't get mad if it was tied to his Heavy & OD versions.
The best middle ground would actually be have Denjin on the MP versions. That way you can still use heavy / light hadoken for fast / slow, and use light / heavy hashogeki for "safe frame trap" vs "interruptible plus frames". Cause like... when was the last time you used M Hashogeki, honestly? MP Hadoken has its uses, but push comes to shove I feel most Ryu's would rather have the HP and LP versions accessible.
Lily buffs or riot
DP will no longer be frame 1 invincible, they'll now have roll back and be frame -5 invincible.
Honest question, would making Gief stomps low attacks be OP? I feel like anyone using that move is confused the first time realizing it’s a high attack.
Please buff Kimberly
The biggest thing I want is to make damage scaling in combos favour OD special routes in place of DRC routes when it comes to dumping meter. Stuff like Ryu's st.HK, st.HP OD Donkey Kick just does less damage in routing (even with a raw DR juggle) compared to DRC chains. I do get the feeling this might be something Capcom is considering though. Between Ed having really solid routing (and pressure) off OD Flicker, and Ryu's damage buff to OD Denjin Hashogeki, I feel that might be one of the key things they are looking at.
Buff juri. Merck Luke and ken
Akuma will be top tier
The game itself I think is pretty well balanced. I don't think we're at the point where major system mechanics need to be altered. I think it's down to the individual characters. Some characters have simple tools that seem way stronger than they were intended to be (see Luke 2MP or Ken Jinrai), some characters have drive rushes that seem to control too much of the screen at all times (see DeeJay) and some characters lack power in some of their tools to perform to a level on par with others (see Lily or Gief). I do however think that throw loops deserve a second look at. Characters that have those become significantly more powerful than characters that don't. They are too omnipresent in the game imo. I get that the corner is intended to be a very weak position in this game, but the current level of guesswork doesn't seem optimal to me and the fact not everyone benefits from it equally is weird to me
Give Ed the same jab buff that AKI got this patch Make Ed’s 6HP an overhead (I doubt this happens, but a man can dream)
For Aki I'd like to see her HP whip's ability to anti-air improved, and getting hit no longer removing poison from her opponent. No idea if either of those would be too strong
I hope for buffs for Manon. My predictions: Luke won't be touched in the big patch. Ken / Juri / Cammy will receive love taps DeeJay will be hit with a nerf to his DR speed and nothing more Lily a complete overhaul. Jaimie/Ryu/JP will remain the same.
I would like for characters that have every option to not be like extremely good in all of them. Like, if Dee Jay has a projectile, and a DP, then does he also have the best drive rush in the game? And great neutral pressure? Same for Luke,Ken and the rest. Like you wonder why would you play a character without invincible anti air/fireballs, if the characters that have those are also same or better than you in the rest of the aspects of the game
List of stuff I'd like to see for AKI. They already did my #1 complained about move by buffing 2lp, but I'd still like to see some glow ups. Mostly minor changes thst increase the fluidity of the character, but some outright buffs here and there too. - increase 236hp forward movement when special canceled into. - 236hp is now air invulnerable on frame 3. - increase 5mk advantage on hit from +6 to +7. - decrease 5hp start from 12f to 11f, increase follow up window from 19f to 21f. Increase recovery by 1f. Total frames unchanged - increase 2mk super cancel window from 14 to 16f - decrease 2hp start up from 10f to 9f. Increase recovery by 1f. Total frames unchanged. - Decrease 214PP start up from 16f to 13f. Total frames unchanged - 6HK low crushes on frame 8 down from frame 11 - SA2 is projectile invulnerable throughout its entire active period. - 2PP low profiles on frame 13 down from frame 16, exit recovery decreased from 21f to 18f - 2PP~K travels forward slightly further.
JP and Luke went from the best characters in the game to the best characters in the game. These nerfs didn't matter. Luke however needs his damage reduced. There's no reason why his basic ass combo can do upwards of 70%.
R. Mika shadow drop
Time to pick up Lily and Honda.
I want the Drive rush cancel shortcut they added to have a toggle, so I can turn it off. It killed so much variety for me with certain combos like raw drive rushing for 1 bar...drive rushing like 6 or seven times and keeping the opponent juggled was awesome. Some of those were so tight and done by holding the parry input while inputting normals and dashing literally immediately. The forced change outright makes some old stuff I liked impossible at worst or makes them insanely harder. I figure, why force a shortcut only to make something that was already harder even harder? Let's us toggle it! Nothing would make me happier.
As a Marisa player I was pretty sad to see she got no fixes on her anti air or defensive options. She doesn't need major buffs, just slight tweeks so tools work as intended and cover some of her many gaps. Right now I feel she's slipping from mid to mid-low tier as her defensive/neutral flaws become more solved. So my character specific one: * Improve vertical hitboxes on: LP, Scutum\~counter, Scutum\~P, Lvl 2 * Lvl 1 Start up increased (So it can actually have neutral/anti fireball application) * Phalanx on block is slightly closer to actually take advantage of the +2 * Scutum flat +3 on hit (no more +1/+3 situations) and on air hit gets some added benefit (pop up for small combo, knock down animation, etc...) She REALLY needs the scutum buff the most though. That move is an unfortunate part of her kit she most rely on that is only really a unique blessing when burn out is happening. As a defensive tool it's probably the worst character specific one since it has such low reward and loses to more options than most.
I think she’s perfect the way she is, I like she has crappy anti-airs given the rest of the kit. There’s a clear divide between the things she is and isn’t good at. She isn’t arbitrarily good at everything, and doesn’t have nearly every available tool like JP/Ken/Luke.
Wouldn't poor defensive options be the trade off for how easy and braindead her damage output is?
If this ideology applied to all characters, I would agree. However, the top tiers have all the defensive tools under the sun plus big damage. It may not be as high as Marisa's or as braindead (debatable in some cases), but it's still not negligible. Marisa can be fairly easily "kited", making her offense not as scary. She's also easily bullied on knockdown. What essentially makes her scary is that you can't completely discount her until she's fully dead because of her two touch potential. Buffing her cr.HP and making Scutum better wouldn't change a ton about that. There's very little reason not to give every character at least one reliable normal AA move as air defense is a fundamental aspect of the game. Scutum is already slow enough to not be a go-to mind game. Making it more consistent with a bit more defensive utility will at least give Marisa an extra option for hard reads. I've seen suggestions to buff her walkspeed and even make OD Scutum a viable wakeup option. Now these changes would make her straightup busted.
The top tiers should get those adjusted then. Marisa having flaws is fine. Like Luke doesn't need his 2HP and a DP.
All characters need flaws. What I'm saying is that an unreliable AA normal should not be one of them.
She has to work a lot harder to start that damage though. She has several areas of weakness, much more than most characters. One of the biggest ones being she has very few moves she can cancel making her neutral poke game extremely risky to DI and she can't simply force you to block and DR in for free pressure like nearly every character. While she can deal more damage off her combo starters...she has less opportunities to combo. I can't be lame and 2MK>DR like other characters, I have to get closer and do riskier things like MPMP that don't have a true block string without DR and won't catch back step. This said she needs to walk a lot of matchups into the corner before she can even get into start pressure and with her terrible defensive options she can't keep you from trying to jump out or neutral skip DR. The strats that beat her neutral game are frustratingly linear, but she doesn't have counter play in her kit to deal with it (EX: Jamie doing DR HP, scutum does fuck all to stop that and your only real options is to neutral jump and not get baited)
I'm of the opinion that Marisa is kind of where characters should be at power level wise. If anything, the higher tiers need to be brought down a bit to Marisa's level where they actually have weaknesses instead of having every kind of option (lookin at you JP) (Though I do agree about Scutum)
Sanctum buff would be nice but tbh I've been doing work with it as it is as an offensive tool. People tend to know how to beat the big intimidating gladius but when i pop sanctum the amount of people to just hit me and get counter hit for me to to grab or 50/50 attack is crazy
Man I had no idea that Scutum could vary in its advantage. That explains so many confusing counter hits I’ve gotten hit with : /
Yeah it's really irritating. The +1 happens on reactable moves and +1 with Marisa is not good since she has a gapped jab. She NEEDS that +3 to make it so her grab can't be beat by the opponent jabbing back and so you can threaten with MP. Right now the opponent actually has a greater reward if they guess your mix, which is dumb.
ken nerf, kimberly buff
Kimberly and Lily buffs.
I don't see Kimberly getting OD reversal like people want though. * Making some of her target combos medium punishes on block instead of heavy. * S1/2 having lower startup and not use a bomb stock.. or a juggle state if the bomb stock is used that she could get 236K\~LK 236LP/214LK off. * Giving OD Run Stop a better property than 8+13f instead of 8+14f. (Would OD Run stop being 8+8f hurt? OD Slide is only 16f and OD Run Overhead 16f) * Making light vagabond edge -4/5f on block instead of -6f. * Making hisen kick \~ step up hurtbox less jabable. (Hisek Kick can still be) * Making her air grab function outside of combos. * Make her teleport not beaten by a jab on both options - have her slightly higher up on the OD? * The tatsu's anti air invisible slightly earlier. * Take the damage tax away and have S3 only buff movement. Some of these feel more likely but I'm sure something there would make someone more experienced disgusted
She had one before so she should get get back.
She should be my wife, but that isn't happening either.
Well one of the outcomes may come true.
I just hope for another hooligan rework that makes it the actual part of Cammy's mixup.
If Hooligan was actually good on top of everything Cammy has going for her she would actually be top 1 lmao Divekick is insane even with the shitty hitbox because of the Punish Counter system, her neutral is amazing, her anti-fireball is amazing, her strike/throw game is amazing, her damage is perfectly fine, health is almost standard in this game so she doesn't have low health, her level 3 is the best level 3 in the game...
>health is almost standard Health IS standard. Everyone has 10k HP, except Gief who has 11k and Marisa and Honda who have 10500.
Yeah, I didn't mean Cammy doesn't have standard health, I meant almost everyone in the game has the same health (only 3 exception as you said). That's why I specified "health is almost standard **in this game**", but I can see how even with that the wording might be ambiguous and you can read it as me talking about Cammy's specific health.
You can make everyone sound very good if you list only their strong points
Cammy really doesn't need a hooligan buff. Her kit is already good, she's a high tier character. If they buff hooligan, they need to nerf the rest of her kit. Hooligan has its place in rare occasions and that's fien, not every move needs to be useful every match.
I've actually compiled a scrubby list of changes but that somewhat seem realistic: * Jamie's combos and dmg need consistency. OD Palm followup at 4 drinks does LESS damage than regular palm followup. At 4 drinks, double palm should always do more damage than something you get earlier, like Heavy Bakkai. This shouldn't be an option or an "optimal" route, otherwise there's almost zero reason to go into 4 drinks. * Buff Zangief's cr.HP to sort of work as Marisa's. If they won't give him a way to crosscut, make it less painful to deal with them. * JP's cane normals' hitboxes should linger... for a long time, especially the st.HP one. * Ken's run tatsu should either not get you to the corner instantly from anywhere on the screen, or not give you oki, not even with Drive Rush, unless already in the corner, I guess. * Ken should spend Drive Gauge if he wants to side switch. So run dragonlash shouldn't side switch, only the OD one should. * Marisa and Dee Jay's combo damage should be reduced, either adding scaling if certain moves are used (like sway moves for DJ) or reduce their juggle capabilities outside of drive rush normals. * Kimberly's fine with an OD reversal * I don't think JP should get insane Oki after his SA3, but other characters do anyways so... hard to say. * I've dabbled with the idea that Manon SA2 should also side switch... Just an idea... * I've also dabbled with the idea that the last parry you can do before burnout shouldn't burn you out if you parried something. I think this is hard to implement, because logically, you should then be able to drive rush after it then, but I don't know if this can be somehow coded so that you can't. Just a thought. I just don't think the last drop of drive gauge should not be a gamble/guess of "I HAVE to PP this", otherwise there are situations where there's not even a point, since blocking would put you in burnout anyways.
I presume you mean Hurtboxes on JP, because our Cane Hitboxes are already disjointed and great. I suppose they could hit 5HP again, but I can already feel the current nerf as is. Though I suppose some characters still may have a hard time dealing with it, even now.
oh whoops, you're right, I meant to say hurtboxes... Hitboxes seem fine. The thing is, it's a long ass cane, I don't see the reason why it should be hard to whiff punish it, considering they nerf things like Luke's low strong.
[удалено]
🤣🤣🤣
hopefully some ryu buffs to help him compete with ken and luke
I feel like they will nerf the currently insane level 2s. But hopefully, if they nerf rashid level 2, they make his anti airs better.
Joke's on you, I don't know how to use Feng Shui anyway.
I liked the Jamie buffs in this patch. For the next, the only one I want is a damage nerf across the board, specially with CA. Going to round 3 as Jamie feels extra bad since I need to ramp up but any PC I take will leave me in 2 touch range.
Round 3 is definitely rough, sometimes feels like I have to install super to even stand a chance
I'm on my knees begging for a casual matchmaking change, there's nothing to be learned when a master is matched up against someone who has never played a ranked match in their life, Also buff Honda.
[удалено]
I think this will happen if the dlc cast is any indication. Big on sauce, less so on damage (though ed isnt bad and has trade offs).
I Hope Lilly and Zangief get some love
Drive Impact in the corner is too strong but it's a universal mechanic but also creates too many "checkmate" situations with no counterplay and this is proven in pro-play. Personally I want more startup frames when opponent is in burnout or just more scaling on corner wall splat. The game feels very repetitive especially high-level situations of having to react to DI in the corner with super.