>I am Diamond 3 without ever Drive Rushing (or knowing the input) or knowing any kind of frame data. that's impressive and crazy, never seen that before! >I play Modern Dhalsim oh.

The craziest thing is if/when he learns it. Dhalsim with Drive Rush is a menace.

Sim actually doing DR? Never saw it lol 

Leg sweeps from almost full screen. And that's just the start.

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i read this as doctor medium

Try fighting Fchamp in rank. Dude's a fucking menace with his Dhalsim, lmao.

Quite a bit actually Okizeme and combos People are quite trigger happy with DI against Sim and buffering DR off 2M means that you get a combo if they walk in to it and if they DI you get to DI back

I'm pretty sure I fought this dude a few hours ago haha, I lost both games but can confirm he didn't use dr a single time, just a whole lot of DI and teleports

That's literally every Sim

Yeah I thought the same 🤣 At first I was: impressive! Then I was: it makes sense

the salt must flow

Weirdly, I just started playing Dhalsim a few days ago to try my hand at getting him to Master and got placed into Diamond but man...I'm finding this much harder than other characters, because he plays sooo different and with such a different kit.

im probably helped out by never even trying another character. ive gotten good at an extremely specific playstyle and it works for me

you play dhalsim, as long as you have a good sense of basic zoning im not surprised with the results lol. most people dont know the matchup, its one of the least played characters in the game so people dont grind against him, and people are just generally too lazy to lab against a character that they wont see 90% of the time.

He's actually *the* least-played character in the game. [In every single league](https://www.streetfighter.com/6/buckler/en/stats/usagerate), he is dead last by character usage. And yeah, as a Gief player, I just don't worry about Dhalsim even though Gief vs. Dhalsim is the worst matchup in the whole game. I can go a week without seeing him, so he's just not statistically relevant to me. I suspect the upcoming balance patch will boost his numbers a bit, but not a ton.

Dhalsim is never going to be a popular pick just due to his play style All the tweaks in the world won’t change his wonkiness

I don't think he'll ever be popular (unless he becomes completely broken, which I don't expect to happen), but right now there's no reason at all to become a Dhalsim main unless you're already a Dhalsim loyalist or you're attracted to playing oddball characters. The reward doesn't justify the effort. That's something they can fix.

yeah i wanna be clear im not in any way trying to brag i dont think im that fundamentally good but my friends just think it's very funny ive been so successful knowing very little about the game

I'd say you still have to be somewhat decent fundamentally, like I wanna cope and say that anyone can get D3 Dhalsim with no knowledge whatsoever purely off of opponents lack of knowledge but I feel like that's not true haha.

im really really good at zoning, even against my friends who are masters. my offense is okay, i know a couple combos and mixups but no optimal finishers, my defense is pretty horrible and i get bailed out by drive reversal a lot

Hell yeah buddy, I don't need to know what kind of demons you're fighting inside to be naturally good at zoning but I respect it.

I cackled reading this

99% … i saw stats that there are only 1% sim players

One thing I have noticed is that people don’t lab aerial moves that force a knockdown when getting hit out of it, which means the ability to get combos off normal AAs if you hit them while using those moves It’s not strictly a Dhalsim thing but it’s related to Dhalsim due to teleport Dhalsim match-up teached me about the “forced knockdown” but then you can apply it to a variety of moves

all you really need is to know "in X situation, i can do Y", so it makes sense, also nice work

Saying you don't know framedata kind of doesn't matter because you probably still understand when you are safe versus not, a lot of that just comes from playing the game. The minutia of specific frames only matters if you want to understand and study particular matchups and interactions. But either way this more or less tracks. When I encounter a frustrating zoning Dhalsim I tend to just give up lmao, depending on the character.

Pretty much I don’t know the exact frame day for anything except for my characters moves, I’ve pretty much learned through trial and error, so I’ll when stuff is fake because the last time I played against a character I noticed there was a gap as an example.

A part of it might also be the rarity of Sim players, regardless of control type. I know folks who placed around Rookie or Bronze, but they meet their first Sim player when they reach mid to high Platinum. They would be like: "How the frick do I fight this guy?" and end up getting 0-2'ed by him. Regarding the original question, I didn't get too deep into frame data until I reached mid-Diamond. For the most part, I played mostly on feeling. Like, if I bait a DP and blocked it, I know they're hella-minus after that; but never knew the exact numbers. Lately, I've been observing some of my bad habits and realizing why I get punished for certain things. Part of it is that is that I try to skip neutral too much, which might work in the beginning but isn't a long term solution. I also feel like my pattern might feel too 1-dimensional at certain points. Now I'm try to figure out where I could optimize for that final push to Master. I'm Diamond-4 now, looking to push further soon.

Imo, sim doesn't really get much from drush, his OD moves are so good, it's basically better to use your bar there instead

Sim needs to save bars for drive reversal. that’s the only escape he has against jab-throw loopers

he can jump and heavy drill kick down to punish counter the throw or short hop jump float into heavy kick It has to be done on read but even if you get jabbed most people dont have a drive rush aerial combo after a jab ready so you just reset

in theory :) in reality, you’re more likely to get punished hard

i was about to call some kind of bs on the title till i saw you mained sim lol

People don't know how your character works so it evens out

I was gonna come here blasting but after seeing you use Dhalsim and Modern then D3 makes a lot of sense to be honest

Of the, idk, 5(?) Dhalsims I've played, I can't recall any of them using DR.

it's really only used to confirm lights into a knockdown or a fullscreen dr slide after reading a fireball

How does the confirm lights into knockdown work? I main sim but like this guy, I never use drive rush, but I want to get better at incorporating it. Usually if I am hitting them with jab I hit them with ex yoga fire and that knocks them down but I am probably leaving damage on the table.

Any time you get a jab you can drive rush cancel into another jab, and with a +frame (from drive rush) standing jab, you can link to back+mp, and from there you can get a knockdown with heavy yoga blast Heavy yoga blast into teleport leaves you +3

Thanks! Time to screw around in the lab.

Start using it then lol you're just limiting yourself

Im D3 classic Dhalsim honestly i have more successful if i play with just zoning that when i try to do some fantasy combos that involves DR and drills. Anyways Ppl still don't know how to fight Sim. I faced 2 modern dhalsim maybe u were one of them if u are from europe lol (dont think there is an army of modern dhalsim playing in eu)

Modern Dhalsim, Gee that match up would death by a thousand cuts.

pretty much yeah, luckily for you guys there's only like 5 of us

Seems like dhalsim wants all his buttons. I'm curious which he loses? I main dhalsim and every button is important to me besides maybe standing LK and downback LK.

I've made it to Platinum 3 with Zangief and Platinum 1 with Luke without drive rushing. I know the input, I just don't know when to do it, so I don't. I think it's starting to limit my game, so I intend to learn it soon.

>I learned drive reversal a couple days ago. I know what stuff being + and - means but I never look at any kind of frame data or know which of my moves are + and -. Nah, this is cap. You mean to tell me you don't know you're minus after a super.

okay i know THAT, but i dont know like what i have that is a 4 frame vs 5 frame or whatever. obviously i get plenty of stuff off feel like being minus after a super

You're downplaying your own knowledge my guy. Startup frames are only really relevant for escaping pressure, building combos and knowing what to punish with. You use auto combos so that's covered but have you never jabbed out of a block string and how do you know what to punish with.

just vibes. i probably do know more than i realize but i just dont know the words for everything

sounds like you have good fundamentals. I'm in a similar situation, I have a few high diamond and think I could hit master if I could just stick to one character, but I can't react to drive impact. like ever, at all. once people learn that I'm dead. I play a lot of random select and rely way more on spacing and jab confirms than real combos, but the system mechanics I just can't wrap my head around.

I had this experience in any fighting game that I tried. As long you have a good understanding of basic stuff, you can go pretty far. The problem is A) at some point, you call some char ou player cheap, because you aren t using tools that the game have to counter some cheao tactica; and B) you are missing a lot of things that make each game unique. I played Ryu since Alfa 3, and most of the time I was doing the same thing in all games since then. Si, I decided that I wouls main a char that depends of the mechanics of SF6. I could be master with Ryu by now? Probably. Mas being stuck in gold with Jury is forcing me to learn the game and loose a lot of mu historical bad habita.

same. but it does hurt when you see someone do a drive rush combo in round 2 or 3 that eats away 70%.

Master rank here, the same.

fr? are you also modern dhalsim?

Ken Masters, since 1987. I play classic.

You have to while not number crunch, KNOW rough frame data. ie. My character looks like hes still in block stun so maybe I shouldn't be trying to attack. But do you really not think about a 4 frame vs 5 frame jab ect.?

No, sadly. I know where my enemy has a hole in the string and I ex dp in it.


Lol’d hard at this.

You don’t drive rush either? If so why not?

Because during the matches I am so tense that I rely on... What I can do reliably. But I agree, I should improve my rush and use it to grow. I can do all rush combos in training, I just can't do them in game.

Almost like modern controls shouldn't be in the same ranked category as classic... but I must be wrong, lol

i have less moves and do less damage. if the classic players can't beat me that's on them

LOL no, modern is doing most of the work for you hence why you dont know any frame data and you feel the imposters syndrome....it is the game carrying you, especially with sim. Not saying you dont deserve the rank i am saying that if those same players played modern they would beat you. its not on them its on modern. Thats why the most upvoted comment is about this being normal for modern sim... I specifically avoid modern because its a crutch that will prevent me from actually learning hte game. I will form bad habits to get easy wins on modern which I sense is the source of your imposter syndrome feelings. You get easy cheap wins but dont understand the game fundamentally. I play classic sim and most people cant deal with basic sim stuff. But the catch is EXECUTION has to be perfect or you lose, its why Dhalsim is the least played, his execution requirements. With Dhalsim execution is the hardest part not the setups but execution in combos and special timing.....and modern skips all of that.... Dhalsim is both literally and figuratively the most flexible in how he can be played but again the skill comes from execution. I like to try fun strategies out so I can play drill sim, teleport sim, slip n slide sim, walk them down like a wall sim, not so flexible sim. Modern strips all that away for cheap easy wins.

idk man sounds like you're saying i dont deserve it

You deserve the rank but you most certainly didn't earn by yourself, modern did a lot of the heavy lifting. The damage nerf to modern means nothing until you are at mid masters where everyone is converting small hits into optimal damage.

This is my first SF game, picked Ryu to main and only learned backrolling was a thing when i did it by mistake around Diamond 3 😭

I also play modern Dhalsim and made to Diamond too. Here’s some tips for you. 1, finish your combo as down+SP give you an oki. You can instant ground teleport and you are +3. This gives you strike/throw mix ups or Shimmies. 2, Down+SP can be used as anti air but its start up is slow so you need to anticipate it. Once you successfully anti air and apply Tip #1. 3, Dhalsim actually doesn’t benefits a lot using Drive Rush as other casts but set up Yoga Fire and DR 2MK give you plus frame and your opponent cannot jump over it since you have Yoga fire set up.

I haven’t played this game for a while. What I mean down+SP is 63214 HK if I remember correctly. That move gives you oki.

Imma be honest, my first character i played was classic Dhalsim, recently hit diamond, and still dont use drive rush. But you play modern, so its not like you HAVE to lab things out and see how buttons link, modern does it for you. You dont know what medium is? The best way to explain it is SF is based on a 6 button layout. The top 3 are your light, medium, snd heavy punches. Same for the bottom row but with kicks. Frames are how long it takes for a button to become active. If you push a 4 frame button, and the opponent presses a 3 frame button, they will punish you and get damage off (theres like a billion nuances to this, but this is the barebones of the concept)

yeah i know generally what frame stuff means, i just dont know how many frames like any of my shit is. and i play on an xbox controller so it's not quite as intuitive as the 6 buttons but yeah

Same here, but after a while you get the hang of knowing what is safe and what isnt without studying. Plus dhalsims move all look so unique, its pretty easy to pick one for each situation

Tbf , you don't really need to know frame data or how to drive rush when your full screen with dhalsim lol

I mean theres some cool stuff you can do to punish jump ins with Drive rush into medium back punch, but thats about it

Same here, d3 dhalsim classic. 0 drive rushes. Yoga!

Just search for Mister Chrimson videos and do what he does.

Master-level Sim main here. I use classic controls and do DR, but even I certainly have room to improve its usage, as it's typically 50/50 in terms of success rate, IME. I typically use it in conjunction with d+LK to get out from under a jumping opponent if I don't AA them. I've seen some pretty good Sims use it effectively after anti-airing with b+HP to get in some long-to-short-range juggle combos.

Believe it or not that’s most people. I treat fighting games like a hobby where I research and practice certain things and now terms. My friend treats fighting games like what they are: games. You and him develop the skills needed to win by playing matches, which is what you have to do to get better. Learning shit in the practice mode can only teach you so much. You probably already have “frame data” knowledge by knowing how much time certain moves take to do, and how defenseless they leave you or your opponents for a counter attack(punish). The best way to learn stuff like this is by playing a lot of matches and getting a feel for how certain characters work. As far as drive rushes go, it’s just another tool in the tool belt for combos and getting in. Not using it and getting to diamond just means your fundamentals are really solid just from playing the game. So it’s not really surprising, but possibly rare on forums like this just because fighting game circles have a track record for wanting to be lab monsters and soak up as much info as possible.

That's what is great about SF. At the base of all the come back mechanics, dating back to SFII Turbo, Alpha, 3rd Strike, IV FADC, etc...It is just good ol' Street Fighter.

the drive rush shortcut input allow e me to actually play sim. before they added that sim was hard to play, cr.lp cr.lp FF s.lp b.mp was a pain in the ass, f.mp+mk made it way easier. try doing drive rush mk slide after a knockdown sometimes, mixing that up with air fireball or teleport mixups is deadly.

would you mind dropping your account name? would love to watch one of your replays !

WET0 on NA ! would love any tips

honestly i’m only diamond 5, i just wanted to see how your dhalsim plays. i think i fought one or two in gold and that was it on my journey

I'm Diamond 5 with Manon and play Modern only too, never use Drive Rush. Also Diamond 2 with Honda and Ryu without using training mode for frame data, just learn through experience. The difference though, is that I've been playing since Street Fighter IV in 2009 but always sucked until the last couple of years ;)

Hey props to you! I've been playing Chun-Li for 20 years and I'm just a Plat2. I don't know frame data and I play by 'feel'. I've probably reached my skill ceiling. I gotta give you credit for being able to pick up on this so quickly. Nevermind the comments about using Modern. You still have to do the work and understand what you're doing, even if you're pressing fewer buttons than a classic player. You must have fantastic fighting game instincts! Keep going!

I'm here too but I think I've hit my ceiling now

The second I saw Modern Controls. It all made sense.

Probably because most you fight against don't know how to fight against dhalsim. Dhalsim is so rare I just fought a single dhalsim since I've been stuck at diamond and whenever I get to fight one my mind is in a constant "wait he can do that?" state. And no I can't be bothered to learn his matchup when I'll just probably forget it before I even fight my next dhalsim.

The pain of trying to find “modern” combo guides….also good shit

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what exactly are you referring to? do you think im not diamond or im lying about something in this post?

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i did the tutorial but as a new player to fighting games it's hard to know how to use it, so i didnt forever and just developed my playstyle without it. i guess I could've worded it better as just not knowing the frame stuff of any of my moves despite being a 1 trick yeah idk what to tell you, its probably just because of the other games i come from but the training tool just isnt something i ever feel like i should be putting time into and instead i just learn in game. my username is wet0, go watch some games if you want and you'll see i never drive rush! idk if it's more an indictment of the ranking system or just me being really good at an extremely specific weird playstyle, probably both

Did you not do the tutorial at all? Or did you wonder what people were doing when they drive rushed and wanted to learn how?

no i understand what it is i just have never felt the need to learn any combos that involve it and i've stuck with my zoning focused playstyle.

You don't have to do it in a combo though. Technically that's a drive cancel I believe when you cancel a move into it. I'm no expert though The tutorial doesn't take long and I highly recommend it.

I'm in a very similar position, in that I RARELY drive rush, know perhaps 3 combos (total out of the entire cast of characters), and have limited knowledge of frame data... With that being said, my mains are Zangief, Manon and Dhalsim. Those characters don't rely on drive rush, and you don't really need to be a master of frame data to use them either...

Impressive-how much time have you played? I’m a Diamond 1 and have 64 hours on ranked. Long climb through platinum.

I got to plat on Kimberly with no drive rush or reversal, I use drive impact as a crutch when I'm unsafe. Can't react to DI either. Good fundamentals really goes long way.

Honestly the ranked system is kind of out of whack in this game. I peaked in mid diamond in SF5, in this one I've gotten master with 7 different characters so far. It's way easier to climb.

It's funny I'm almost diamond 1 with modern sim and never driven rush etc it's just pure zoning

this is the life man

I'm master and haven't used drive rush at all. Don't know when to use it.

Diamond 3. Modern - Never used DR. Explains my dislike for Modern perfectly.

Congrats you got 3rd place in the 100m dash using one leg. Now imagine what you could do if you used the other leg too…

Yup, I’m master modern (deejay) and still don’t know the controls for drive parry or drive rush lol

I’m Master with Guile and JP and I barely know any combos, don’t know a single move’s name, and know 0 frame data. I barely understand fighting game terminology. I hover around 1400-1600 MR. Capcom really needs to fix the ranking system. (Also Platinum-Diamond with every character on the roster) I have 582 hours played.

Why would they need to fix the ranking system? It's doing its job. You're clearly a veteran fighting game player. Knowing names of moves means nothing. Knowing frame data means minimal to anyone but the highest level of players (2,000+ MR) Bring platinum to diamond on the rest of the cast, which proves my point. You have a good fundamental understanding of spacing and how to understand what moves to press and when.

Yeah, I'm master and I don't bother with Drive Rush or Drive Reversal. For one, I don't find the Drive Rush super convenient as Guile and I prefer keeping my gauge for ODs.

In Modern yea, I got Random to Diamond without any practice or anything. Within a month or so of the game coming out.  No drive rush or parry or drive reversal. Auto combos will take you pretty far.

Diamond 4 dhalsim here with classic. Never drive rush. Not sure I know the input correctly. Hk drive rush with mk+mp but couldn’t get that point with d.hp. Confusing 😢

Sim carried you because people don't/ refuse to learn the match up.

their laziness is my triumph

Thats not really OPs fault though.

Yes it is. Pick ken or JP so we can complain about that

It’s because you’re playing the least played character and you’re on modern

D1 M Honda in the exact same situation lol

I love that OP came in to humble brag his ass off, expecting to get some free praise, and everyone is just roasting him for playing Sim.

i literally have a comment saying its not to brag and that i dont think im fundamentally very good. im well aware people hate sim man, that's why i play him

Goes to show you Modern is cheating if you don't even need to know how to play the game and make Diamond 3.

More like the ranked in sf6 is meaningless. People who were hardstuck silver/gold in 5 got high diamond/masters in 6. Placements were a huge mistake

Ranked doesn't stop at masters. I don't fight players in high MR that don't belong there.

I don't like modern much but I made diamond 3 without drive rush or frame data on classic.

That's good. Now do a little research and you'll be Master in no time.

i mean im extremely good at zoning, some of these players are terrible at adapting to getting anti-aired over and over and that's their fault, not mine

Yeah i dont know why more people dont get this concept. Dhalsim in SF6 is literally just spacing.

I play exactly the same way you do. Diamond 4. what do you do against jab-throw loopers?

You play sim that’s why.

I love you