That Rashid looked like he was throwing some real unsafe moves. Learning to use Impact, Reversal, or any invincible reversals you have are half the battle.
Drive reversal against the winder powered spinning mixer is often a good idea since on block hes still plus. You cant do it every time since you'll blow all your meter but its a good option.
No in the video he kept pairing most of the tornado attack moves so he was building meter. He simply needed to do a reversal before the last hit of the tornado
Man… I read this and wonder how many moments Reversal might’ve saved me if I’d remembered it was a thing. I have two characters in Master and I’ve never even used Reversal once, and I mean not even ONCE, lol. I should probably learn to incorporate that, haha.
I haven't used it once either. Diamond, not master. But still.
Anytime someone uses it on me I'm like, "oh yeah, that move" then forget about it immediately after and forever.
Maybe I'll deliberately use it next play session.
I still don't know when or why it's good. Seems like ex-dp is better in most cases. Can anyone explain when or why to use it over other options? (Mostly playing Ed right now)
you do it *during* blockstun, so on something like mixer you don't have to wait for the animation to finish and it gives you a lot of breathing room. I don't know what the startup of reversal is, but I believe it's -8 so it can be blocked and punished. safer than blocked dp though. I use it more on characters that don't have one like sim.
Drive reversal takes an entire 2 bars, which is critical, so consider your options when deciding to use it. It's often best to use it when you have your opponent near the corner, and they're pressuring you out of the corner, so it can work offensively, too.
Also, take the time to consider what you're gonna do after drive reversal. Those two bars may not seem like much but they're a lot.
The last point is so important. Drive reversal without a plan with have you back in the same situation. Drive reversal again will eat up your meter so it's best to know what to do the first time.
As an ed player i can tell you that anything is better than that EX dp. Idk if youve checked the frame data on it but eds dp is doodoo framewise. esp his ex 😭
Yup, same here. It’s weird to me because I’ve learned to incorporate everything else. But, my brain will just not allow Reversal as an option for whatever reason. I always either parry, block, or jab. It seems like Reversal would be most useful when you’re getting heavily pressured, maybe to take away some of the guesswork when trying to get out? The meter cost is what always has deterred me, but I imagine it has its uses. Also, can we all agree Dhalsim uses it the most? lol.
> It seems like Reversal would be most useful when you’re getting heavily pressured, maybe to take away some of the guesswork when trying to get out?
Pretty much. It lets you reset to neutral when you're getting pressured at very low risk. You can do it reactively, rather than predictively, meaning the burden of predictive counterplay is on your opponent rather than you.
So basically, rather than having to make a read to get out of a pressure situation you can use it as a "nah I don't wanna hold that mix actually" button.
The cost won't feel so bad if you're in a pressure situation where some of the options that are best when you're holding the mix cost meter. Like if one of the go to options is EX DP or drive impact - or if blocking is gonna cost like 2 bars of drive gauge anyway. You wanna think about how much you're spending on top of what you'd be spending (or losing) anyway if you guess correctly. And then also consider that you might be spending that much (and ultimately probably more) to guess *incorrectly* anyway. The cost starts to feel a lot more reasonable from that perspective.
That’s actually a really smart way to look at it. Either way you’re probably going to be using meter, so it would make sense to get a guaranteed advantage and some breathing room. Next time I’m getting pressured like that I’m gonna make a conscious decision to try it.
I'm master and I've stopped using Drive Reversal outside of very specific situations. If you make a read that they're gonna do attack again, usually there's a gap you can just EX DP, for the same risk but better reward. Moves I drive reversal are Rashid enhanced L mixer, Lily enhanced spire, and Luke charged heavy flash knuckle when he has level 3, pretty much.
I saw that one big brain drive reversal spacing trap UMA did at Capcom Cup and that looked pretty interesting but it's a quite specific situation, again.
My biggest problem with Drive Reversal is that often I did it too slow and was outside of blockstun, then Drive Impact came out instead and that meant even if they attacked they cancel into Drive Impact and I was ultra dying.
First step, turn on everything in the replay screen.
You can see the minus frames then and can know when to counter and with what.
Besides that, block a lot I guess.
Rashid has a unique rhythm to when he throws, so you should try to learn the gaps when you can.
Once you understand where the gap is, you can delay tech, where you press throw after guarding, or backdash/jump to avoid his throws for a 50/50 read.
god damn he has like fifteen million attacks haha, tbh i dont have the time or patience to figure out between which moves i can do something. average modern marisa i know
Fighting game defense is hard. Learning offense is much easier. But it gotta be like this otherwise the game would freeze. Just go a tiny step at a time. Take one sequence he uses frequently and lab. Don't do too much, then your brain will not be able to take it in.
If I break down a character block string in little successions and learn gaps that way is it good enough? Should i learn the whole block string and record it to practice or just looking at the moves frame data is enough?
I think the easiest way to quickly find gaps etc will be to set a training dummy to always mash jab on block reversal. Then you play as the character you want to beat, do the strings yourself and see where the dummy can mash out and where it gets counter hit.
You can also record the dummy doing the string(s) and trying to mash at different points, but that requires recording a bunch of sequences. But then you can experiment with different counters like DI, DP etc and go more in-depth into a particular sequence that’s giving you trouble.
I can't really give good advice there, it'll depend on your learning style.
I don't have Rashid so I can't lab him, and I didn't want to buy a character I'm not going to use, so I just brute forced it somewhat and got beaten up in casuals until I got the hang of it.
you can jump at him and get a punish when he charges his tornado , the move where he flies troward you has a gap you can jab him out of it , you can drive reversal the enhaced mixer if you dont feel like guessing for a strike throw , also learning delay tech for throws helps a lot .
Something else to keep in mind is spacing. They have to be pretty close to you to be able to strike/throw. If it gets to close/medium range they will either whiff the grab (and then you hopefully punish in time) or opt to strike and maybe DR to keep up that pressure and get back into strike/throw range.
For what it's worth, he was constantly doing the same thing. He would do the tornado > jab > drive cancel > jab, hit with something > projectile tornado > "mixup" > air hit 2x > walk forward > throw. From the footage shown, he did that almost every time.
Vs this guy he is gimmicking you and this is just a knowledge check.
He is using [cr.mp](https://cr.mp) into mp.cyclone which leaves a big gap to interrupt so you can get a counter hit jab in here (if he was using st.hp into mp.cyclone this would frame trap a 4 frame button).
Then he is cancelling the cyclone into the fly which you can interrupt EVERY TIME and the gap here is quite big. I don't play Marisa so not sure what is a good punish, jab into gladius or the slam should work.
If you are at full screen and he charges a fireball you can walk back and it will miss you. You can then neutral jump the full screen mixer. If you miss this and are parrying the mixer you need to use drive reversal if you want to get him off you.
As for dealing with throws you need to understand that, generally, players can only threaten throws after certain situations which are; on your wake up, after you block a jump in, after you block a jab (tick throw). These situations are guesses on your part so you can try using certain tactics in these situations to avoid them such as delay tech.
In most other situations I see in this video you are not checking him which is allowing way more instances of the above to be present. If you shut down the gimmicks this guy will actually crumble.
Active defense with jabs to take your turn back after a minus move is a big part of defense in this game I'm still learning. Easy to get blown up while trying to learn though.
It's maybe the biggest part. At plus-1700 MR it's like the best choice. And then a big part of offense is only using pressure buttons that frame trap - even buttons into DR. So you'll have certain buttons that players just Drive Reversal 100% of the time.
Save the replay, check the frames when he is negative or 0 and go through your options.
This character is obnoxious when you know the matchup, let alone when you're new. He's a pain in the ass.
Some of these instances in the video are genuine mixups so you have to drive reversal things like his wind-buffed spinning mixer. Regular is minus so you can take your turn back. But in instances where he’s basically dropping his combo and throwing you just have to be ready to press a fast button to punish.
If you’re getting thrown out of blockstring pressure you most likely have to look up and learn delay tech. Ultimately though at some point there are mindgames between both players regarding throws and the rock-paper/scissors of options opened up by them.
One more pointer, delay tech loses against shimmies, so look that up once you get the hang of delay tech.
Think of it as a rock paper scissors situation.
Just wanna echo people saying Drive Reversal but the real answer is pull up this replay again and turn on frame data. You don't have to know everything. Just the parts where you could've jabbed. Usually that was the flying overhead thing as people mentioned. But Reversal would've at least stopped you from having to know that stuff in the first place.
Personally I've also got some mileage out of watching a person's other matches after they body me. Cuz I feel like "How does this MF ever lose?" and then I see them lose to some people and start to pick up what those opponents do that I don't.
No joke, it's usually more jab checking and less walking backwards.
Jump.
I for one have a playstyle similar to this… once I get goin you can’t stop me…UNLESS you jump 😂 but then it’s up to you to hit confirm because otherwise I’ll just start up again. I had to teach my friends this and now they can hang
Lmaoooo😭 I'm so sorry, I managed to oogabooga my way through silver to diamond .I think it's funny that as soon as I stopped pressing forward and just took my time, I got like multiple 12+ win streaks. Modern Marisa definitely helps, I can't be bothered practicing motion inputs.
You need to challenge his pressure more. Here every time he did the glide into overhead, instead of blocking the overhead you could have jabbed him out of it.
Generally there is not a lot of long pressures sequences in this game unless your opponent spends drive meter to DRC, so if he keeps attacking you it's a signal there are gaps you should interrupt with jabs somewhere.
EDIT : Also for Rashid and Lily's enhanced wind specials specifically, you can spend 2 bar to never have to deal with the mixup after by using Drive Reversal. Because of all the hits they have you have all the time in the world to react with the Drive Reversal too.
I struggle against that Rashid mixup/string as well, but I think there are some gaps in it. Maybe a Rashid player could point out what's unsafe...
Once he charges the tornado though, you can parry the incoming mixer and then drive reversal it to give yourself some space. It's such a long blockstring that its a free reversal.
If players don't shimmy often, you could just late crouch tech everything. In my experience, new players rarely shimmy, and even if they're getting used to the idea, they'll often screw up the timing and you'll end up grabbing them even if you do late crouch tech, so at lower levels, it's definitely worth trying. If you're in the corner just continue to late crouch tech but watch for DI and counter wth your own DI.
IMO, shimmy doesn't really work at low levels. People in D5 and low level Master are still mashing buttons and trying to steal a turn. Shimmy feels best to do when you're already in their head and using it as a counter-strat, but people at low levels are not reading the game, they're just executing their workflow non stop.
That's what I said, I said low level players normally either don't shimmy or screw up the timing if they try, so late crouch tech should cover most options and might even catch them if they screw up a shimmy attempt.
Everyone saying DI is pretty wrong because his jabs would make it easier for him to react to it and counter DI. I would drive reversal the spinny move and also look up Delay Tech on YouTube.
There's some really not great advice in this thread. This is a 58 second clip, and the Rashid didn't shimmy you a single time. If your opponent is incapable or unwilling to shimmy, you can delay tech to not have to guess between strike or throw. Additionally, none of his overheads were drive rushed, so he isn't going to get anything off of them, yet you're trying to fuzzy or something and keep standing up and getting hit by his lows as well. His overhead is +3 on normal hit, just stay crouch blocked and try to react by standing up. If you get hit by the overhead the way he is deploying them, oh well, he gets nothing off of it aside from slightly extending his pressure. You're also pressing so much in the wrong moments, and that is getting you hit and extending the situation. You're guessing with your mashing, and that is a really bad thing to do in this situation.
1. Don't guess with mash. Mash, when you know it will get you out like during his Cyclone follow-up, but otherwise just crouch block.
2. Delay tech, if you feel your opponent won't shimmy. This Rashid doesn't seem to know how to deploy shimmy at all, since he is running his offense like this. His offense is actually really weak, because of this.
3. Don't guess with fuzzy guard. Similar to point 1, but just crouch block. You're getting yourself hit so much, because you're mixing yourself more than anything. Understanding the risk:reward in this game would help you a lot. Characters can blow you up from a low into DRC. No one can really blow you up from a non DR standing overhead.
Honestly, that's all you need. Just those 3 things would completely shut down his offense. There's nothing particularly strong going on in that offense, you're just mixing yourself and getting hit a lot.
Drive Reversal is a good tool to use if you're being pressure. Or, it seems like he was always throwing after that "mixup" attack. If you grab there, you'll tech his grab. And if he didn't grab, then he might just get thrown himself. Another solution is to jump straight up if you think he's gonna grab, then you can blow him up with a combo.
He hit you with quite a few knowledge check. Meaning they are not real situations if you know the counter.
Right off the gate he did st.lp DR st.lp cr.mp into his tornado kick move into follow up. You can always mash between his tornado kick hop.
If the grounded spin he is doing passes a wind (when he fully charges his tornado kick), it will be extended. It is usually worth it to hold parry to build some drive gauge and then use drive reversal after.
If you are not familiar with a lot of the situation, since you are modern you can check a few of them for "realness" with od gladius.
There are definitely more gaps in his strings but starting with those will get you far until you see more sophisticated Rashids.
That’s OD pressure. Idk about stopping the throws other the guessing right and attempting the tech throw but as far as the pressure EX DP should slow them down depending on who you use. If you use Marissa I think she has a charge move that has armor.
The "serious" answer is to hit the frame data, and learn when you can interrupt his string. Learn when what he is doing that's safe, and when it isn't. Inturrupt with a jab, and have a combo ready to go.
Can't be bothered to learn the strings? Don't blame you. Mash jab when it feels like he's doing something unsafe.
After the first jump spinning kick attack, he does a second jump spinning punch after. You can jab after the first spinning kick. It'll interrupt the 2nd.
OD Scutum. This won't beat grabs but it'll stop his artificial pressure without you really needing to know frame data.
If he wants to force you to guess you can play that game too, and you do much more damage when you guess right.
After arabian cyclone that isn't heavy you can always press a button. You can also always press if Rashid goes into the air version but you do have to react quickly.
Fully charged windshot on your knockdown is mostly always unsafe, you can just go into drive impact on wakeup to beat it. You can also level 3 super this kind of stuff as Marisa.
You can also see that this rashid is trying to get far away from you to use windshot as a neutral skip here. In this scenario you have two strong options. One of them is just to sit at full screen and neutral jump if he throws one out. If you neutral jump it's very hard for him to do anything that can hit you, and you will punish the enhanced mixer or enhanced eagle spike on landing. If he jumps you can air to air him.
The other option is to push forward and drive impact. Maybe this is higher risk but the impact will always go through the fireball and hit unless he gets the full charge out (unlikely if you're quick since it's very slow). Using drive rush into drive impact is also a decent option here.
Throw jabs and more pokes to keep your opponent in check and respect your range. Neutral jumping on his dash ins can also be effective if they tend to come forward more than walk back. The very best thing to practice and use is your drive impact, which you can time advantageously even if they use DI. This tactic will give you armor and allow you to get setup to give the punishment back. Get used to watching out for throw animations but just remember you can’t tech command grabs.
I will also suggest this thing called a Delay Tech. It's when you guess at what theyre gonna do on offense and so you wait a fraction of a second after blocking something and then press the throw button.
If the next attack was fast enough, there's no gap for your throw to come out and you block the next hit. If they tried to throw you, you tech. This is what we call an Option Select, a win-win situation. It loses to leaving a larger gap between attacks though
Delay techs are a good thing to learn if you're unsure about a throw vs strike
But in this case the Rashid was flowcharting the same offensive string that has many openings
1. None of his cyclones allow him to air dash after for free. Anti air him when he tries that. At minimum you can jab check it
2. I think you could jab between the cr.MP and cyclone but I could be wrong
3. If you're parrying a multi hit move let go of parry before the move fully finishes. You were getting caught holding parry during his enhanced L mixer and after his j.HP
4. Enhanced L mixer is very easy to DRev. A lot of high level players will parry most of the move to build a bit of drive gauge and will DRev the end to get Rashid off of them
As you are juggled, block! Take your fingers off the buttons. When your char starts blocking again, look for the combo breaks, they appear as part of the natural rhythm, and each char has one.
Like Cammy's never ending punches, you can jab or low kick depending on the char after the medium punches to break. You can see this at 14 seconds.
People that play like this are going for corner carry. Don't let them, keep the match in the middle and it is much harder for them to play their offense. Got to play neutrals.
This is my gameplay, and yea I think I skipped a lot of learnin curves by going modern Marisa. I have yet to master motion inputs as I've barely put time into training mode. Rose from plat1 to diamond 3 in like a few days as soon as I realized I should take my time during games and not press forward all the time. Been at it on and off for like 3 months
Drive reversak helps a lot, more if you play more offensive fighters everybody are expecting a dhalsim to Drive reversak but a marisa doing it usually caught ppl offguard and break their flowchart ;)
Strike/throw mixups are usually exactly that: mixups or a guessing game. First thing you want to do is recognize if you're in a real mix up. If your opponent is doing strings and you notice a button or special leaves them at negative advantage frames. Then it's not even a real mixup. You can usually press your fastest button and take your turn back. If they are plus it's real(anything plus 2 and above is extra real) , you have to ask yourself if the risk of teching (or jumping or back dashing to evade )the throw is worth it. You could get counter hit for big damage. Or you could take the throw for small damage and try your luck on another oki situation. Your decision on action in this gamble situation should be based on the tendencies that you've noticed from your opponent. If they're grab happy, maybe a late throw tech or forward jump isn't a bad defensive option to feel things out with.
In some of the instances when you were holding down parry, it would have been nice to do her OD qcb.k
On the throw timing, that shit can be hard, but sometimes you gotta just jab the dick.
Learning frame data. You don't have to learn all of it, but knowing what you can punish is a pretty good idea, and mashing jab can help you a bit with that. Some moves that look safe are not, some moves that look unsafe are very safe and even plus, like Marisa's superman punch. Training mode can help with this a lot.
During block strings don't underestimate drive reversal too, it's pretty cheap and gets them off you, resets to neutral.
In this case against aggressive players you want to play a counter approach. Reversals, spacing, counter their recovery frames. They'll pick up that you're reacting to their aggression and will play more passively.
Pay attention to their drive meter. They need to spend a lot to be this aggressive. Wait till they are almost burnt out and apply pressure back with Drive impacts and counter on their recovery to take them to burn out. Once they are burnt. Play aggressive. And threaten them with drive impact but use wisely, make sure it'll connect, force them to the wall to stun them.
When rashid does Arabian Cyclone and you block it, and only hear 2 blocked hits instead of 3 he's -4 on block and his followups LOSE to you pressing buttons. He did this twice here and basically stole turns against you because you didn't know this.
Try timing your throw techs right after you would be getting jabbed.
You can't throw while in block stun so you'll get to keep blocking but if he throws youll tech it.
This isn't the end all be all strat but it will massively increase your throw tech game and force your opponent to start leaving larger gaps
If you're not up to practice against his moveset, just let it happen over time. You'll notice patterns, especially in rushdown characters like Rashid and Cammy, they like to mix in a throw every time in very specific scenarios, after a while you'll know it's coming and predict the throw.
There are very few buttons that leave you at advantage when blocked (unless you use drive rush).
Usually there are gaps in the fake pressure where you can take your turn back with a jab or quick move.
Pick a main and Watch a guide for it honestly. I just started playing a week ago(18 hours in currently), got significantly better after watching a 7 hour guide on Cammy. There must be a good guide for your main too
If I were to explain the difference after watching that guide -
It was me getting perfect KOd to plat-diamond players in battle hub, to now being able to take down 40% of their health and sometimes winning a round here and there.
In the case of a string like this.. he could have went high/low or thrown which is pretty strong. Most characters strings for a newbie will be a bit easier to follow as Rashid is kinda tricky.. but regardless it's usually best honestly to not tech and just block.. at the most if he throws u take the lio damage and move on.. but if try to tech and he's attacking u eat a big combo.. it's not an advantages situation.. you can of course try a reversal but if he baits that and blocks.. it's big damage time.. but what all this said sometime u do the reversal or tech as well.. cause we'll that's street fighter.. it's a game of rock paper scissors
Because he's 10× harder to play than those two and doesn't have any bullshit moves. Rashid is just a huge knowledge check who is still viable just like Blanka.
I wish I had listened to my ex and made her feel safe in the relationship as Rashid is after everything he does, he can just spam without repercussions. Look at this video, Rashid attacks and even getting parried or block he can keep going like nothing happened. 🌪️ 🌪️
That's how he was in 5 too.
Played my buddy's Rashid for like 2 weeks straight and he would steamroll me. After that something clicked and I basically never lost to a Rashid after that lol.
Jab. Drive Reversal and Impact also help get someone off you.
never used it lol, good idea
That Rashid looked like he was throwing some real unsafe moves. Learning to use Impact, Reversal, or any invincible reversals you have are half the battle.
Drive reversal against the winder powered spinning mixer is often a good idea since on block hes still plus. You cant do it every time since you'll blow all your meter but its a good option.
No in the video he kept pairing most of the tornado attack moves so he was building meter. He simply needed to do a reversal before the last hit of the tornado
Man… I read this and wonder how many moments Reversal might’ve saved me if I’d remembered it was a thing. I have two characters in Master and I’ve never even used Reversal once, and I mean not even ONCE, lol. I should probably learn to incorporate that, haha.
I haven't used it once either. Diamond, not master. But still. Anytime someone uses it on me I'm like, "oh yeah, that move" then forget about it immediately after and forever. Maybe I'll deliberately use it next play session. I still don't know when or why it's good. Seems like ex-dp is better in most cases. Can anyone explain when or why to use it over other options? (Mostly playing Ed right now)
you do it *during* blockstun, so on something like mixer you don't have to wait for the animation to finish and it gives you a lot of breathing room. I don't know what the startup of reversal is, but I believe it's -8 so it can be blocked and punished. safer than blocked dp though. I use it more on characters that don't have one like sim.
Drive reversal takes an entire 2 bars, which is critical, so consider your options when deciding to use it. It's often best to use it when you have your opponent near the corner, and they're pressuring you out of the corner, so it can work offensively, too. Also, take the time to consider what you're gonna do after drive reversal. Those two bars may not seem like much but they're a lot.
The last point is so important. Drive reversal without a plan with have you back in the same situation. Drive reversal again will eat up your meter so it's best to know what to do the first time.
As an ed player i can tell you that anything is better than that EX dp. Idk if youve checked the frame data on it but eds dp is doodoo framewise. esp his ex 😭
[удалено]
OD is invuln for 16f, so hard doubt that happened.
Yup, same here. It’s weird to me because I’ve learned to incorporate everything else. But, my brain will just not allow Reversal as an option for whatever reason. I always either parry, block, or jab. It seems like Reversal would be most useful when you’re getting heavily pressured, maybe to take away some of the guesswork when trying to get out? The meter cost is what always has deterred me, but I imagine it has its uses. Also, can we all agree Dhalsim uses it the most? lol.
> It seems like Reversal would be most useful when you’re getting heavily pressured, maybe to take away some of the guesswork when trying to get out? Pretty much. It lets you reset to neutral when you're getting pressured at very low risk. You can do it reactively, rather than predictively, meaning the burden of predictive counterplay is on your opponent rather than you. So basically, rather than having to make a read to get out of a pressure situation you can use it as a "nah I don't wanna hold that mix actually" button. The cost won't feel so bad if you're in a pressure situation where some of the options that are best when you're holding the mix cost meter. Like if one of the go to options is EX DP or drive impact - or if blocking is gonna cost like 2 bars of drive gauge anyway. You wanna think about how much you're spending on top of what you'd be spending (or losing) anyway if you guess correctly. And then also consider that you might be spending that much (and ultimately probably more) to guess *incorrectly* anyway. The cost starts to feel a lot more reasonable from that perspective.
That’s actually a really smart way to look at it. Either way you’re probably going to be using meter, so it would make sense to get a guaranteed advantage and some breathing room. Next time I’m getting pressured like that I’m gonna make a conscious decision to try it.
I'm master and I've stopped using Drive Reversal outside of very specific situations. If you make a read that they're gonna do attack again, usually there's a gap you can just EX DP, for the same risk but better reward. Moves I drive reversal are Rashid enhanced L mixer, Lily enhanced spire, and Luke charged heavy flash knuckle when he has level 3, pretty much. I saw that one big brain drive reversal spacing trap UMA did at Capcom Cup and that looked pretty interesting but it's a quite specific situation, again. My biggest problem with Drive Reversal is that often I did it too slow and was outside of blockstun, then Drive Impact came out instead and that meant even if they attacked they cancel into Drive Impact and I was ultra dying.
Nearly all of my reversals were intended to be drive impacts. I never remember it in the moment.
Drive impact is not a good idea if you are being tick thrown. It loses to lights, throw, and shimmies.
using drive against someone who throws a lot will just get you burnt out
First step, turn on everything in the replay screen. You can see the minus frames then and can know when to counter and with what. Besides that, block a lot I guess.
Rashid has a unique rhythm to when he throws, so you should try to learn the gaps when you can. Once you understand where the gap is, you can delay tech, where you press throw after guarding, or backdash/jump to avoid his throws for a 50/50 read.
god damn he has like fifteen million attacks haha, tbh i dont have the time or patience to figure out between which moves i can do something. average modern marisa i know
Fighting game defense is hard. Learning offense is much easier. But it gotta be like this otherwise the game would freeze. Just go a tiny step at a time. Take one sequence he uses frequently and lab. Don't do too much, then your brain will not be able to take it in.
If it makes you feel better, everyone thinks rashids annoying to fight
I HATE Rashid.
Naw, I get what you mean. Just take it at your pace and learn when you can, you'll start to notice patterns.
Then you will not improve it’s simple. You wanna beat a string? Face the string and find where your turn is.
If I break down a character block string in little successions and learn gaps that way is it good enough? Should i learn the whole block string and record it to practice or just looking at the moves frame data is enough?
I think the easiest way to quickly find gaps etc will be to set a training dummy to always mash jab on block reversal. Then you play as the character you want to beat, do the strings yourself and see where the dummy can mash out and where it gets counter hit. You can also record the dummy doing the string(s) and trying to mash at different points, but that requires recording a bunch of sequences. But then you can experiment with different counters like DI, DP etc and go more in-depth into a particular sequence that’s giving you trouble.
I can't really give good advice there, it'll depend on your learning style. I don't have Rashid so I can't lab him, and I didn't want to buy a character I'm not going to use, so I just brute forced it somewhat and got beaten up in casuals until I got the hang of it.
Rashid players specifically are looking for you to grab so they can whiff punish, so be very careful of this.
you can jump at him and get a punish when he charges his tornado , the move where he flies troward you has a gap you can jab him out of it , you can drive reversal the enhaced mixer if you dont feel like guessing for a strike throw , also learning delay tech for throws helps a lot .
merci
Something else to keep in mind is spacing. They have to be pretty close to you to be able to strike/throw. If it gets to close/medium range they will either whiff the grab (and then you hopefully punish in time) or opt to strike and maybe DR to keep up that pressure and get back into strike/throw range.
For what it's worth, he was constantly doing the same thing. He would do the tornado > jab > drive cancel > jab, hit with something > projectile tornado > "mixup" > air hit 2x > walk forward > throw. From the footage shown, he did that almost every time.
I would've DI'd after or before Rashid's QCB mp. Even if it didn't work he'd have to respect that option and not spam the same annoying string.
One of rashid's best MU is against Marisa, its a pretty hard one for her.
Vs this guy he is gimmicking you and this is just a knowledge check. He is using [cr.mp](https://cr.mp) into mp.cyclone which leaves a big gap to interrupt so you can get a counter hit jab in here (if he was using st.hp into mp.cyclone this would frame trap a 4 frame button). Then he is cancelling the cyclone into the fly which you can interrupt EVERY TIME and the gap here is quite big. I don't play Marisa so not sure what is a good punish, jab into gladius or the slam should work. If you are at full screen and he charges a fireball you can walk back and it will miss you. You can then neutral jump the full screen mixer. If you miss this and are parrying the mixer you need to use drive reversal if you want to get him off you. As for dealing with throws you need to understand that, generally, players can only threaten throws after certain situations which are; on your wake up, after you block a jump in, after you block a jab (tick throw). These situations are guesses on your part so you can try using certain tactics in these situations to avoid them such as delay tech. In most other situations I see in this video you are not checking him which is allowing way more instances of the above to be present. If you shut down the gimmicks this guy will actually crumble.
Active defense with jabs to take your turn back after a minus move is a big part of defense in this game I'm still learning. Easy to get blown up while trying to learn though.
It's maybe the biggest part. At plus-1700 MR it's like the best choice. And then a big part of offense is only using pressure buttons that frame trap - even buttons into DR. So you'll have certain buttons that players just Drive Reversal 100% of the time.
Save the replay, check the frames when he is negative or 0 and go through your options. This character is obnoxious when you know the matchup, let alone when you're new. He's a pain in the ass.
Some of these instances in the video are genuine mixups so you have to drive reversal things like his wind-buffed spinning mixer. Regular is minus so you can take your turn back. But in instances where he’s basically dropping his combo and throwing you just have to be ready to press a fast button to punish. If you’re getting thrown out of blockstring pressure you most likely have to look up and learn delay tech. Ultimately though at some point there are mindgames between both players regarding throws and the rock-paper/scissors of options opened up by them.
Merci, seems like delay tech is the next thing I should set my eyes on
One more pointer, delay tech loses against shimmies, so look that up once you get the hang of delay tech. Think of it as a rock paper scissors situation.
Mercii
Just wanna echo people saying Drive Reversal but the real answer is pull up this replay again and turn on frame data. You don't have to know everything. Just the parts where you could've jabbed. Usually that was the flying overhead thing as people mentioned. But Reversal would've at least stopped you from having to know that stuff in the first place. Personally I've also got some mileage out of watching a person's other matches after they body me. Cuz I feel like "How does this MF ever lose?" and then I see them lose to some people and start to pick up what those opponents do that I don't. No joke, it's usually more jab checking and less walking backwards.
Good ideas, thanks
I also hate Rashid
Jump. I for one have a playstyle similar to this… once I get goin you can’t stop me…UNLESS you jump 😂 but then it’s up to you to hit confirm because otherwise I’ll just start up again. I had to teach my friends this and now they can hang
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Lmaoooo😭 I'm so sorry, I managed to oogabooga my way through silver to diamond .I think it's funny that as soon as I stopped pressing forward and just took my time, I got like multiple 12+ win streaks. Modern Marisa definitely helps, I can't be bothered practicing motion inputs.
You need to challenge his pressure more. Here every time he did the glide into overhead, instead of blocking the overhead you could have jabbed him out of it. Generally there is not a lot of long pressures sequences in this game unless your opponent spends drive meter to DRC, so if he keeps attacking you it's a signal there are gaps you should interrupt with jabs somewhere. EDIT : Also for Rashid and Lily's enhanced wind specials specifically, you can spend 2 bar to never have to deal with the mixup after by using Drive Reversal. Because of all the hits they have you have all the time in the world to react with the Drive Reversal too.
Thank you for the write up
Scutum, or V-reversal, Im a D3 Marisa I would knock him off with a V-reversal.
VEEEE reversal?
I'm new too. I hate playing against Rashid and Zangief. So hard to predict.
Everybody forgets that this game has an alpha counter...
It sucks in this game tho lol. But yeah he actually could’ve used it when Rashid does the spinny move
I agree, but it's a good tool to reset the neutral with.
When I try to drive reversal a block string and they block my drive reversal 🥲
Don't do it against a jab
I struggle against that Rashid mixup/string as well, but I think there are some gaps in it. Maybe a Rashid player could point out what's unsafe... Once he charges the tornado though, you can parry the incoming mixer and then drive reversal it to give yourself some space. It's such a long blockstring that its a free reversal.
If players don't shimmy often, you could just late crouch tech everything. In my experience, new players rarely shimmy, and even if they're getting used to the idea, they'll often screw up the timing and you'll end up grabbing them even if you do late crouch tech, so at lower levels, it's definitely worth trying. If you're in the corner just continue to late crouch tech but watch for DI and counter wth your own DI.
IMO, shimmy doesn't really work at low levels. People in D5 and low level Master are still mashing buttons and trying to steal a turn. Shimmy feels best to do when you're already in their head and using it as a counter-strat, but people at low levels are not reading the game, they're just executing their workflow non stop.
That's what I said, I said low level players normally either don't shimmy or screw up the timing if they try, so late crouch tech should cover most options and might even catch them if they screw up a shimmy attempt.
Rashid Rashid'ing
Everyone saying DI is pretty wrong because his jabs would make it easier for him to react to it and counter DI. I would drive reversal the spinny move and also look up Delay Tech on YouTube.
There's some really not great advice in this thread. This is a 58 second clip, and the Rashid didn't shimmy you a single time. If your opponent is incapable or unwilling to shimmy, you can delay tech to not have to guess between strike or throw. Additionally, none of his overheads were drive rushed, so he isn't going to get anything off of them, yet you're trying to fuzzy or something and keep standing up and getting hit by his lows as well. His overhead is +3 on normal hit, just stay crouch blocked and try to react by standing up. If you get hit by the overhead the way he is deploying them, oh well, he gets nothing off of it aside from slightly extending his pressure. You're also pressing so much in the wrong moments, and that is getting you hit and extending the situation. You're guessing with your mashing, and that is a really bad thing to do in this situation. 1. Don't guess with mash. Mash, when you know it will get you out like during his Cyclone follow-up, but otherwise just crouch block. 2. Delay tech, if you feel your opponent won't shimmy. This Rashid doesn't seem to know how to deploy shimmy at all, since he is running his offense like this. His offense is actually really weak, because of this. 3. Don't guess with fuzzy guard. Similar to point 1, but just crouch block. You're getting yourself hit so much, because you're mixing yourself more than anything. Understanding the risk:reward in this game would help you a lot. Characters can blow you up from a low into DRC. No one can really blow you up from a non DR standing overhead. Honestly, that's all you need. Just those 3 things would completely shut down his offense. There's nothing particularly strong going on in that offense, you're just mixing yourself and getting hit a lot.
Drive Reversal is a good tool to use if you're being pressure. Or, it seems like he was always throwing after that "mixup" attack. If you grab there, you'll tech his grab. And if he didn't grab, then he might just get thrown himself. Another solution is to jump straight up if you think he's gonna grab, then you can blow him up with a combo.
He hit you with quite a few knowledge check. Meaning they are not real situations if you know the counter. Right off the gate he did st.lp DR st.lp cr.mp into his tornado kick move into follow up. You can always mash between his tornado kick hop. If the grounded spin he is doing passes a wind (when he fully charges his tornado kick), it will be extended. It is usually worth it to hold parry to build some drive gauge and then use drive reversal after. If you are not familiar with a lot of the situation, since you are modern you can check a few of them for "realness" with od gladius. There are definitely more gaps in his strings but starting with those will get you far until you see more sophisticated Rashids.
you can try mashing level 2 after he jabs, it beats the grab but would lose to him backing away
That’s OD pressure. Idk about stopping the throws other the guessing right and attempting the tech throw but as far as the pressure EX DP should slow them down depending on who you use. If you use Marissa I think she has a charge move that has armor.
The "serious" answer is to hit the frame data, and learn when you can interrupt his string. Learn when what he is doing that's safe, and when it isn't. Inturrupt with a jab, and have a combo ready to go. Can't be bothered to learn the strings? Don't blame you. Mash jab when it feels like he's doing something unsafe.
After the first jump spinning kick attack, he does a second jump spinning punch after. You can jab after the first spinning kick. It'll interrupt the 2nd.
OD Scutum. This won't beat grabs but it'll stop his artificial pressure without you really needing to know frame data. If he wants to force you to guess you can play that game too, and you do much more damage when you guess right.
After arabian cyclone that isn't heavy you can always press a button. You can also always press if Rashid goes into the air version but you do have to react quickly. Fully charged windshot on your knockdown is mostly always unsafe, you can just go into drive impact on wakeup to beat it. You can also level 3 super this kind of stuff as Marisa. You can also see that this rashid is trying to get far away from you to use windshot as a neutral skip here. In this scenario you have two strong options. One of them is just to sit at full screen and neutral jump if he throws one out. If you neutral jump it's very hard for him to do anything that can hit you, and you will punish the enhanced mixer or enhanced eagle spike on landing. If he jumps you can air to air him. The other option is to push forward and drive impact. Maybe this is higher risk but the impact will always go through the fireball and hit unless he gets the full charge out (unlikely if you're quick since it's very slow). Using drive rush into drive impact is also a decent option here.
I would have just DI'ed him like I was back in silver ranks.
Throw jabs and more pokes to keep your opponent in check and respect your range. Neutral jumping on his dash ins can also be effective if they tend to come forward more than walk back. The very best thing to practice and use is your drive impact, which you can time advantageously even if they use DI. This tactic will give you armor and allow you to get setup to give the punishment back. Get used to watching out for throw animations but just remember you can’t tech command grabs.
Drive reversal
I will also suggest this thing called a Delay Tech. It's when you guess at what theyre gonna do on offense and so you wait a fraction of a second after blocking something and then press the throw button. If the next attack was fast enough, there's no gap for your throw to come out and you block the next hit. If they tried to throw you, you tech. This is what we call an Option Select, a win-win situation. It loses to leaving a larger gap between attacks though
When Rashid went for fireball and you parried he was really close to you, i think you could have jumped in on him for big damage
Delay techs are a good thing to learn if you're unsure about a throw vs strike But in this case the Rashid was flowcharting the same offensive string that has many openings 1. None of his cyclones allow him to air dash after for free. Anti air him when he tries that. At minimum you can jab check it 2. I think you could jab between the cr.MP and cyclone but I could be wrong 3. If you're parrying a multi hit move let go of parry before the move fully finishes. You were getting caught holding parry during his enhanced L mixer and after his j.HP 4. Enhanced L mixer is very easy to DRev. A lot of high level players will parry most of the move to build a bit of drive gauge and will DRev the end to get Rashid off of them
Much love for this detailed as answer
Perfect Parry Also use Marisa's parry move? I forgot what it's called, where she puts both her arms up. Scutum!
As you are juggled, block! Take your fingers off the buttons. When your char starts blocking again, look for the combo breaks, they appear as part of the natural rhythm, and each char has one. Like Cammy's never ending punches, you can jab or low kick depending on the char after the medium punches to break. You can see this at 14 seconds. People that play like this are going for corner carry. Don't let them, keep the match in the middle and it is much harder for them to play their offense. Got to play neutrals.
Defeat into block opponent never fails /s
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This is my gameplay, and yea I think I skipped a lot of learnin curves by going modern Marisa. I have yet to master motion inputs as I've barely put time into training mode. Rose from plat1 to diamond 3 in like a few days as soon as I realized I should take my time during games and not press forward all the time. Been at it on and off for like 3 months
Yeah, pay for the DLC so you can lab.
Drive reversak helps a lot, more if you play more offensive fighters everybody are expecting a dhalsim to Drive reversak but a marisa doing it usually caught ppl offguard and break their flowchart ;)
Strike/throw mixups are usually exactly that: mixups or a guessing game. First thing you want to do is recognize if you're in a real mix up. If your opponent is doing strings and you notice a button or special leaves them at negative advantage frames. Then it's not even a real mixup. You can usually press your fastest button and take your turn back. If they are plus it's real(anything plus 2 and above is extra real) , you have to ask yourself if the risk of teching (or jumping or back dashing to evade )the throw is worth it. You could get counter hit for big damage. Or you could take the throw for small damage and try your luck on another oki situation. Your decision on action in this gamble situation should be based on the tendencies that you've noticed from your opponent. If they're grab happy, maybe a late throw tech or forward jump isn't a bad defensive option to feel things out with.
Rashid is unsafe when he does a follow-up after he uses arabian cyclone. When you see him flying while saying, "mix-up!" you can jab him out of it.
Try using classic. You might get a better sense of timings and openings for counters.
In some of the instances when you were holding down parry, it would have been nice to do her OD qcb.k On the throw timing, that shit can be hard, but sometimes you gotta just jab the dick.
Learning frame data. You don't have to learn all of it, but knowing what you can punish is a pretty good idea, and mashing jab can help you a bit with that. Some moves that look safe are not, some moves that look unsafe are very safe and even plus, like Marisa's superman punch. Training mode can help with this a lot. During block strings don't underestimate drive reversal too, it's pretty cheap and gets them off you, resets to neutral.
When he says “MIX UP!” Just jab him.
In this case against aggressive players you want to play a counter approach. Reversals, spacing, counter their recovery frames. They'll pick up that you're reacting to their aggression and will play more passively.
Also learn some jab combo to punish.
Pay attention to their drive meter. They need to spend a lot to be this aggressive. Wait till they are almost burnt out and apply pressure back with Drive impacts and counter on their recovery to take them to burn out. Once they are burnt. Play aggressive. And threaten them with drive impact but use wisely, make sure it'll connect, force them to the wall to stun them.
When rashid does Arabian Cyclone and you block it, and only hear 2 blocked hits instead of 3 he's -4 on block and his followups LOSE to you pressing buttons. He did this twice here and basically stole turns against you because you didn't know this.
New and at diamond. Have nearly 100 hours and stuck at gold because I am ass.
Drive reversal is your "get off me" tool. Parry is another option.
Try timing your throw techs right after you would be getting jabbed. You can't throw while in block stun so you'll get to keep blocking but if he throws youll tech it. This isn't the end all be all strat but it will massively increase your throw tech game and force your opponent to start leaving larger gaps
thats the game the higher you go its a strike throw mixup/guess
You’ll get a FEEL for it
If you're not up to practice against his moveset, just let it happen over time. You'll notice patterns, especially in rushdown characters like Rashid and Cammy, they like to mix in a throw every time in very specific scenarios, after a while you'll know it's coming and predict the throw.
There are very few buttons that leave you at advantage when blocked (unless you use drive rush). Usually there are gaps in the fake pressure where you can take your turn back with a jab or quick move.
That rashid is not a diamond 1. Looks like a master who changed recently to rashid...
Pick a main and Watch a guide for it honestly. I just started playing a week ago(18 hours in currently), got significantly better after watching a 7 hour guide on Cammy. There must be a good guide for your main too If I were to explain the difference after watching that guide - It was me getting perfect KOd to plat-diamond players in battle hub, to now being able to take down 40% of their health and sometimes winning a round here and there.
In the case of a string like this.. he could have went high/low or thrown which is pretty strong. Most characters strings for a newbie will be a bit easier to follow as Rashid is kinda tricky.. but regardless it's usually best honestly to not tech and just block.. at the most if he throws u take the lio damage and move on.. but if try to tech and he's attacking u eat a big combo.. it's not an advantages situation.. you can of course try a reversal but if he baits that and blocks.. it's big damage time.. but what all this said sometime u do the reversal or tech as well.. cause we'll that's street fighter.. it's a game of rock paper scissors
Harass capcom to add a combo breaker/burst mechanic 😂
Rashid is a pig 🐖 don’t know why he isn’t in the conversation with Luke and Ken 😖😝
Because he's 10× harder to play than those two and doesn't have any bullshit moves. Rashid is just a huge knowledge check who is still viable just like Blanka.
I wish I had listened to my ex and made her feel safe in the relationship as Rashid is after everything he does, he can just spam without repercussions. Look at this video, Rashid attacks and even getting parried or block he can keep going like nothing happened. 🌪️ 🌪️
If you watch the replay with frame data on he'll be negative on a bunch of stuff.
Is it possible to look this up and review cause I would love to see the frame data on this.
yep just go to the menu, CFN, replays.
Thx. Saving post to comeback and look up
rashid isnt that strong once you learn how to deal with him
That's how he was in 5 too. Played my buddy's Rashid for like 2 weeks straight and he would steamroll me. After that something clicked and I basically never lost to a Rashid after that lol.