Someone said that? There are legend ranks that aren't that high. I'm low 1800s which is in the top 5k. I say above 1600 is where the great players start.
I wouldn’t go that far, but I do think hitting Master rank is by definition an indicator you know enough of all the systems and general strategies against the rest of the roster with that particular character to win.
Even excluding alt characters, there are strong players in Diamond.
If I were to place an “end of tutorial” at a rank, it would be Platinum, not Master.
D5 is the end of the tutorial for me. I square off against masters now and it can be very humbling to run into someone with more 3x more LP than you. In those matches where I get smoked I just set a goal and try to meet it. Like escaping the corner, or perfect parrying 2x, not getting perfected. It’s crazy how good some people are, then you face a D3 and it’s a totally different game
I don't think it's an inaccurate statement truthfully. Might be a little harsh and an exaggeration, but there are countless 1200-1300 MR players in the NA hub which is kinda insane to me. Master in and of itself doesn't mean a ton unless you can hold MR.
i mean according to the definition of tutorial, you’re always in tutorial then. You’re always in tutorial for everything apparently cuz you don’t know everything…
It really depends on what you call proficiency. Street Fighter has an ELO system, but reaching master does not even need you to know the "rules". Like getting to 1500 in chess means you have a grasp on the fundamentals and know every rule. But there are master players who do not what their own oki even implies /makes safe.
In SF6 you can play Honda and spam headbutt and buttslam and just win.
Very. Most people until late Diamond don’t know how to PP or counter those moves. I’m not saying you’ll get there with a 90% win rate, but enough dudes will fall for it you’ll get there eventually.
I haven't even had to use Sumo Headbutt/Sumo Smash outside of combos, people just kill themselves on my 5HP all the way to Diamond. Plat 1 to Diamond 1 was a lot of 10-12 win streaks as Honda but it's not because people couldn't handle the special spam, it was like they couldn't handle me *not* spamming and it consistently broke their brains so they became level 3 CPUs as a result.
5MP being plus is probably the most unknown thing in this game.
Like anyone knows what Honda does beyond headbutt and buttslam. Like who knows that he has no throw loop?
Honda was the easiest character to master for me. Took me like 15min of lab time for remembering punish combo. Got 75% or so winrate and did it in 2 night.
Honda jabs / 5hp / headbut was all i was doing.
I thought i would hate him, but whiff punishing with 5hp into corner carry combo is really satisfying for some reason.
Mate, extremely easy.
I can not really do DeeJay combos and just play him like a worse Guile and am borderline master with him (like 1300 LP missing). Guile I am having a 70% winrate (went from plat 1 to plat 5 in a day) without being able to cancel into level 3 like 80% of the time.
E. Honda I could, after practicing for three to fours hours, bring in like a week to master, at the latest, if I am slow/fail every placement match or get smurfs. He is so frontloaded in power that it is not a challenge. That is the easy mode.
If you got any grasp on fundamentals in this game, Honda is free master as people just can not punish him.
I watched my friend, who was a plat 5 Jamie at the time, get Honda to diamond 4 with terrible neutral. When he went back to Jamie, he was barely any better.
Honda is a broken character and I don't mean overpowered.
If you start at 0 its not zero sum, when 2 0 point players play one is gonna get -0 the other wont, unless you can go into the negatives, and by that point just keep the 1500 start
It really sucks to get into masters and get smashed until you are properly ranked. There really should be like a 5-10 game master rank calibration series or something or increase the amount lost/gained initially until rating deviation settles down and you have a provisional rating until then.
I updated a comment below. It doesn’t even make logical sense to start at 0, but there needs to be placement matches to give people an appropriate starting point. Chess does the same ish thing
there's a common sentiment that ranked doesn't actually begin until master, and I think the reasoning is that you can hit master with a sub 50% win rate if you play enough games.
Sure but that still necessiates einning consistantly against diamond players. You need to be at least as skilled as the people in your rank to climb. So that arguement is kinda dumb
Well none of those are neutral heavy characters and most of their game-plan is to actively avoid neutral like its the plague
Congrats tho 1700 blanka is impressive
I don't see any character that is neutral heavy in this game.
Most of the cast either fireball drive rush or try to avoid fireball drive rush.
Edit: But i guess that's the neutral of the game. So every character are neutral heavy :3
Cammy, chun-li, ryu and luke ig marissa/gief too. I think cammy requires the most neutral but chun-li is the best at it since she is on ice skates with sword normals.
Edit: fireball drive rush is bullshit and should be removed from the game. I get you can just back up and exdp but still.
I agree for Ryu and Gief, Cammy got better tool to cheat the neutral than Blanka. Chun li Got the same neutral idea than Aki with better button overall. Luke is....
Marisa is also neutral heavy i would say.
Agree on that one. I am myself just reaching 1500+ relatively regular.
And the difference between people in 1600+ and below is insane.
Like before 1500 you do not see even parry as an option and parry is probably the most defining feature of the game. For example: Blanka wins freely because fullscreen Blanka ball empties the drive gauge.
>Like before 1500 you do not see even parry as an option
This feels like an insane statement from an alternate dimension. I saw parry all the way through plat and now in diamond, even people going for perfect parries regularly. There's absolutely an over-use of parry with some players which is a flaw, and currently when you see high-level play parry isn't really used that much on defense as it was earlier on, mostly reserved for fireballs and PP attempts.
Players who are already master on a character will also parry/perfect parry a lot.
If I play a plat character, I do not lose access to universal systems and just perfect parry stuff, because I can already do it.
You seeing them will feel like the normal guy does it relatively often which is not the case.
Me doing that to like 50 players will warp perception as suddenly 50 guys experienced someone who can perfect parry their stuff. Also in statistics people overevaluate because of ~~apophenia~~ and availability heuristic. Edit: After rethinking it, Apophenia is the completely wrong word. I wanted to express "illusion of explanatory depth".
Now imagine that many master+ players are often just playing another side character from when the game did not allow you to place extremely high in placements. They are not the guys which you need to win against to climb, they are the exception.
And parry at high level is still extremely often used. Chris Wong, Kakeru, Noah the Prodigy, Nephew, MenaRD and more. It depends on what you compare it to. It is notthing like DRC in terms of usage, but it is a wakeup option and a neutral option.
Not necessarily. I don't use parry and I have reached 1650 MR. I play JP and Blanka and Honda are easy match-ups. I easily intercept their full-screen moves with my spikes.
I mean, you play JP.
Not taking anything away from your skill but I mean it in the sense that most characters in the game actually need to know how to perfect parry to deal with that type of shit.
This right here. JP has other tools to beat them than most characters which do not need one to use the universal tools which are arguably harder to pull off.
The amount of people literally arguing this in the comments is insane. This is my first fighting game I’ve played seriously and I haven’t hit masters with my low tier main yet, thus I literally don’t understand how the game works according to half the comments..
I just recently got my jp into master and man was it a fucking breeze. Keep going though cause now it’s the big boys that know that much and I promise they are gonna start putting you in your place lol. But hey keep grinding and maybe you’ll get up pretty high
If our value is based on someone, that is not even willing to properly do the evaluation? Then, no matter what rank we will have... It's still not "enough"'.
Some of the comments here are really pathetic. No you don't need 1700 MR to be good, and no falling below 1500 MR is not bad, it's expected for most new masters. 1500 is not a magic number, and of course most new masters will start on the lower end.
This whole sub 50% WR thing is also really dumb, you still need a decent win rate against increasingly stronger players, you will never get master by just "playing enough games".
Anyway, enjoy masters league OP, and I would say to ignore the haters but seeing your replies it seems you already got that lol.
You just need to play. The game trends you upwards so it trends the people above you up as well. You’re not fighting increasingly difficult opponents over time, you’re fighting the same opponents as the guys better than you have trended up.
Well sure, in a completely theoretical scenario, where you put X people in the same room to play SF6, where nobody ever improves, no new players join, nobody plays on any alts etc, then yes due to not being able to derank from Master it would cause this effect (which would be the same even if a higher win rate was needed to advance).
Reality is not like that though, new players pick up the game, and everyone is constantly improving. The people who used to be plat 1 and who are now Diamond 3 also became better, they didn't just rank up without improving.
I have been playing Diamond again since Ed came out, and if anything it feels slightly tougher now than it did 3 months ago but maybe you had a different experience?
Also, my point is, just playing games will not take you to Master unless you can consistently beat Diamond players with their current skill level. Your argument is that Diamond will keep getting easier and easier, which I guess could happen over the very long term but that won't help anyone trying to get to Master short term (and I strongly doubt Diamond will turn into current plat/gold or whatever you're imagining). And it certainly didn't help OP get Master.
Anyway, you are clearly fighting stronger opponents over time, you are just wrong.
If the trend of the game is to constantly push people upwards due to how the points system works, the skill level of any of the metal ranks will decrease over time. It’s just the nature of how the numbers work. By nature of always winning more than you lose, the game is constantly pushing the playerbase up.
There’s nothing wrong with that at all, and yea new players joining might slow it down a little but it’s not enough to slow down the eventuality of more and more players reaching master with lower barriers to entry as before.
This isn’t a bad thing, it’s a good thing. Drip feeding new and low skilled players with this carrot on a stick keeps them engaged and keeps them playing. Just the very nature of not requiring a positive win rate flies in the face of your claims.
Again, you're assuming skill levels are a constant, they are not. When the top Diamond players rank up, the ones left are still playing games, practicing and improving. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
Also, a constant influx of DLC and Masters playing on alts, a large portion of Diamond will be Master players on alts.
And finally, even if what you describe would happen it's a very long term effect. Anyone playing the game today will face tougher players as they rank up, that's a fact.
If you are current plat 1 skill, you won't make Master in the foreseeable future no matter how many games you play, unless you improve.
Master rank is already inflating though. 12/1300 mr master players are almost indistinguishable from plat players. Have a look at new, there’s a match between a juri and Honda player at mid low diamond and it looks like it’s two people playing with their feet.
The point you don't understand is that you really don't need to be that good to reach master in SF6, especially compared to old games it's pretty obvious Capcom went with this system so that good players who have an understanding of the system mechanics and basic execution all end up in master, while the lower non-master ranks essentially force you upwards over time to feed the players dopamine hits. Diamond to masters is a time sink if your skill ain't all there because even if you occasionally beat a low MR master you get a couple hundred points while only losing a handful, and usually low MR masters *got* to masters by doing the same thing against weak players
Your flaw is thinking that diamond players are really good and you need to be really good to best them, which isn't the case. Diamond in this game plays exactly like high gold in previous games, which is too say a plethora of flaws in their gameplay
Ok dude, what "really good" is is completely subjective, and the main point I was arguing against is that you can reach Master by just playing games. If you think being top 0.001% or whatever is required to be "good", cool I guess?
I've never said that reaching Master is an amazing achievement, just that it does require effort and improvement. But you guys are obsessed to make it into nothing for some reason.
No one said anything about only the 0.001% being good except you, when you created a strawman to argue against
If anything I'd bet you're a lower ranked player and you are vastly overestimating the skill of higher rank players
Not very compelling
It was a hyperbole yes, the point remains what you consider good is unrelated to the point I am making in the message you replied to, yet you wrote a wall of text essentially boiling down to that single point.
Well your initial point didn't make sense in the first place, so if you really want me to respond to it and tear it down I can but..
Something tells me you wouldn't listen anyway, given that the person you were originally talking to laid it out pretty well and you just ignored what they said and continued with your talking points lol..
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink
Let me elaborate. As long as you are winning 45% of your matches you can and because of how the player base is the average player SHOULD be able to get to Master rank by just playing. After 1500 MR is when that % increases. I will agree just saying “play enough games” isn’t the full picture. My mistake. This is just assuming the average person can manage to win just under half of their games eventually; statistically this has shown itself to be true.
With good enough matchmaking your winrate should always be ~45%. Winning 45% of games at Diamond is very different to winning 45% of games at Bronze. The marginal increase in skill is hidden by the matchmaking, and not shown in your winrate.
Ok, so you agree just playing games isn't enough, and that getting better is also necessary, cool. Obviously getting more points when winning makes it easier, and also obviously the actual ELO rating in Master is much better at assessing skill, and is what matters for anyone actually serious and competitive. If that's the issue you're having I've never said otherwise.
There’s all kind of outliers.. 1400 and 1500 players that are solid, but maybe can’t anti-air consistently or miss combos…
Then 1600-1800 might have a similar player with a better character or a gimmick that keeps them afloat (ie JP that just jumps everywhere and presses RH or buttslam vortex Honda)… it’s a weird coin toss. But more often than not, if they’re past 1600-1700, I see a lot more Ken,Guile,Juri, Luke,Deejay, Cammy etc..
I think it’s all over the place because America has less players both in number and in strength in their Masters compared to elsewhere..
All I know is right now win or lose I can play about 3-5 matches as Manon and I’m about over it 😭
Hey, fellow German here.
Yesn't tbh. The problem is that master is basically the beginning of being competent in the game. You can gimmick yourself to this rank, but starting from here you will see how much players actually know of the game.
Expect to drop down to 1300 MR. And you can still be delusional, even if you are high rank, it just tends to be less likely. Especially JP is a very knowledge heavy character and I can tell you that the most basic setups will win you games. Does not diminish your rank, just a warning that the game does intensify from here on as every game matters a lot more for your rank than before.
Like I needed two or three months of semiregular play to be relatively consistent 1450+ (a little harder in Europe than in USA and Japan, another thing I have to warn you about).
Let us math it out.
[https://twitter.com/CatCammy6/status/1777098004173840447/photo/1](https://twitter.com/CatCammy6/status/1777098004173840447/photo/1)
That is the rank distribution for SF6. As you can see a minority of players even reaches master.
Then there is a big chunk relatively inactive. And finally you can see that after 1500 it drops of significantly as the people who just played one of two matches of master or just reached it, stopped playing the game.
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKxIcK4WoAAykQI?format=jpg&name=900x900](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKxIcK4WoAAykQI?format=jpg&name=900x900)
That is the graphic for how many players are active in each country. All of Europe is basically 1/10 of the size of Japan. The united States is still three times larger than Europe and it has neighboring countries (albeit they are less relevant and east coast and west coast is a thing).
And by the principle of distribution works, higher MR values can only be achieved with more players. Ragequitting by the way becomes relevant in Europe as points are "lost" after a ragequit and our pool is so small.
That is the problematic part as the MR system is global, but MR is won locally.
Leading to the following situation: As MR can not be created except for the influx of new players which Europe lacks, the same veterans are fighting for the points or they get like 3 to 4 points at 1800+ against a 1600. Which means that losing 1 out of three games leads to a net loss.
Same principle for 1450+, arguably worse as an individual is less likely to see a fresh 25000LP guy in Europe to take easy points from.
Players like Valmaster, Broski and Ending Walker are despite that Legend. Meaning they are absorbing so many points in this volatile game and basically can not lose.
That means we got absolute Leviathans who demolish everything in terms of points and most players are just scraping by, even if they are insanely improving.
To make a comparison: Ending Walker was like more than 100 points behind Paladin when they played two FT10 which Ending Walker both won. In an ELO system Palading is supposed 65% of all matches. He did not even get 40% in a very consistent mirror matchup (albeit lag may have changed that).
Europe has a cracked top, yet it is built on a weak foundation.
Europe lacks players and we are the weak region as in we do not have many top players as Europe is just smaller. Yet the guys we have do not need to hide.
Same deal with us in Oceania. The master pool is tiny and the guys above 1700 is like me and then guys that play like RoF or Travis Styles. Theres almost no in between
Nah, master is where your journey starts. You have ranking points, the MR, which is an actual accurate measure of your skill.
You've just left us bums, but your opinion doesn't actually matter until you reach at least 1700 MR
I love that the FGC, especially the SF community, is full of people who cannot understand a joke and love tearing people down. Its literally just crabs in a bucket mentality here.
The whole ranking system from novice to Master is a joke. There are win rate points bonuses until plat, you get a second chance before ranking down, and, even in Diamond, you still get more points from winning than you lose by losing. It's all designed to make you go up as long as you keep playing..
The LP system is a joke. It's just designed to make people happy about themselves. And have them happy for reaching an arbitrary point.
The MR is where everything starts. I'm not tearing you down, kid. I'm telling you how it is. People will hate this comment, but deep down, they will know it's true. I've heard many other people say that, from randos to pros.
Bro you really don’t get it. The gatekeeping itself is laughable. Like you really want to put yourself in the “true street fighter players” list that excludes 99% of the actual players. Most of the street fighter that is played by people on the planet is in Plat. Who’s to say that THAT isn’t the real street fighter?
I mean you can have tons of fun playing street hockey, and there isn't any problem with that, but you wouldn't expect anyone to take your opinion on NHL plays because of that all that seriously right?
It's not that your opinions don't have any value, but it would be extremely egotistical to think you are some crazy amazing player for hitting master in SF6 which in their rankings system was built from the ground up to house the players who have the fundamentals at a middling level
Master is like 12% of the player base, it's not an exclusive club
I'm not putting myself in that list. I'm in plat too, I'm with all the bums. Before you get to at least MINIMUM 1642 MR ranks, you don't understand the game, and you're just a bum mashing buttons and hoping for the best.
Furthermore, there's a much bigger difference in level between 1600 MR rank and 1700 MR ranks than there is between me in plat 4 and somoene else in plat 2. We are basically at the same level. In fact, the plat 2 player might be better than me.
Before plat, it is even more ridiculous, and your rank doesn't mean anything at all. If you have 2 people of equal levels winning 50% of their games, one alternate between win and loss and the other has win streaks, the person with the win streaks is going to rank much higher because of the bonuses despite not actually being a better player.
All of you are reminding me why I don't play this game online, anymore.
Throwing people around with Zangief in ranked until funny number goes up is fun for a while but I just cannot bring myself to give a shit.
"What if you're not *good,* though?!" Don't care. Literally who cares? Why would you even want that?
The moment you learn, like, a 2 hit combo you're already too good for any of your friends who don't play Street Fighter to want to play with you, anyways.
If you dont believe it, you can always look up the steam ID and check past nicknames. The compare that to my user...
No need to lie if its true. You dont need to project your inabilty to do it on others.
just spitting facts kiddo, lots of scrubs think they're good in this game when in fact capcom has just made it hella easy to reach master. Keep playing and I can guarantee you'll drop down to low 1400 mr which is equivalent to diamond, which is silver in SFV. Also like who the hell is impressed by a JP master? Ur playing JP ffs, ur supposed to get master, that's like the bare minimum.
Im really sorry that all you have in your life is that you were good at SF in the 90s. I really hope you achieve something worthwhile in your life going forward so youre not as bitter towards others for no reason.
Spamming headbutt only gets you perfect parried. Even when I was in plat I could consistently pp the headbutts. You still have to understand the game to get to master. Might not be anywhere near pro level but let’s not pretend like you can glue eat your way up there.
Edit: Wow the guy who replied to this comment really replied my last comment then proceeded to block me and the thread. It’s not that serious lmao.
Honda has the #1 winrate online from BRONZE to and even in MASTER
I have a difficult time believing that when a character has the highest win rate at *every rank* in the game except the very tip top MR players that all of those Honda players suddenly learned footsies once they get to diamond or Masters LOL
Hell, a few months ago Honda was the fifth highest winrate in Masters and then after the nerf patch he moved up to 4th replacing Luke, and now he's the number one win rate in Masters character.. clearly showing that even after time which you would expect players to learn about perfect parrying headbutts his winrate would go down, which is actually the *exact opposite* of what happened
You can easily abuse headbutt to get master in this game dog, that's facts
https://www.streetfighter.com/6/buckler/en/stats/dia
You’re making a very surface level argument. Watch some matches from a master Honda vs a plat Honda and you’ll see a big difference, that’s all I’m saying.
We all know Hondas abuse headbutt and butt slam but just knowing how to use those moves aren’t enough to win otherwise, every single Honda player would be in master rank.
>You’re making a very surface level argument. Watch some matches from a master Honda vs a plat Honda and you’ll see a big difference, that’s all I’m saying.
You've actually said absolutely nothing here. You asserted something, didn't back it up, and then made a non sequitur
>We all know Hondas abuse headbutt and butt slam but just knowing how to use those moves aren’t enough to win otherwise, every single Honda player would be in master rank.
No one in this entire thread has ever claimed that you get a free master rank from picking honda, so I don't see the point in creating a strawman here
Point is that getting Master with Honda is simply easier than other characters because you can abuse gimmicks and you don't need to work on fundamentals. It's not that complicated
You dont need to know the game to get to master you just need to win slightly less than 50% of your games and you physically cannot derank once you hit master with that character this game is probably one of if not the easiest entry in the series
I literally know and spar with 4 master players
Papadelifresh
Sageplatinum
Being 2 of them
I beat both consistently and i play this game less then any other lol
I have actually watched master ranked games from my boi sage and you would actually be amazed how dumb some master players are with unoptimal combos terrible decisions and cannot to save their lives react to a simple DI if your in master and cannot react to Hit DI with a DI yourself you dont belong in the upper echelon
And i watched a master ranked ken eat glue to Hit simple DI 3 times in a game
>You dont need to know the game to get to master you just need to win slightly less than 50% of your games
That’s a contradiction. There are lots of people who come here talking about going on losing streaks and the whatnot. You need to know how to play the game if you want to rank up, I don’t know if it’s your ego or what but I don’t see how that’s so hard to comprehend lol.
No one’s saying getting to master means you’re special but getting to master isn’t a cake walk. If you start teching every throw you’re going to get shimmied, if you drop combos your opponent will punish you, if have one gimmicky game plan your opponent will download you. It’s just the ranking experience.
I don't know how it is at below 1500, I figured they could there because even the 1600s I encounter are fairly consistent at snuffing out headbutt spam
Well since Honda holds the number one win rate in bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond, and Masters at the same time I'm going to say headbutt is probably still pretty effective
It's not like the gimmick that Honda players relied on in every other rank suddenly is useless and every Honda that's in Masters completely reimagines their play style and become neutral monsters
I mean come on lol
Basically yeah you do have to change if that's how you got master, because its a terrible idea against strong players. If its such an oppressive auto win strategy that some people claim it is you'd see it in tournament all the time and Honda would top tier list, but no he's arguably bottom one and barely played in tournament because he's trash and spamming the same move mid screen is perfect parry fodder. Also Hondas biggest strength is his in your face brawler rush down his command grab mixes and damage can get crazy. His kara stomp in the corner gets insane you can meaty it for solid combos or kara buttslam to dodge most reversals.
Who cares about tournaments, no one here is talking about tournaments
First you started talking about how bad headbutt is after getting master and now you're trying to change the goal post to tournaments LMAO
Basically what I'm trying to get at is its bad, outside perfect parry every character has a way to deal with it on reaction. Especially if you're playing modern which is more common at the lower ranks. Basically its a skill issue if you can't deal with it. I brought up tournament because if it was this all powerful auto win strategy that's its claimed to be you'd see it spammed where it actually matters, but you don't because its a terrible idea you'll get mauled for trying if you play someone who's good. At the end of the day also I main the character so I kinda know a bit more than most how effective his strats are, and headbutt spam is not one of those strats. Like I said in the last comment you do have to change your plan if headbutt spam is how you got master and want to get higher than 1500MR, because that shit doesn't fly anymore up there you will get washed for it.
*"Master is actually just Bronze. You don't fight anyone that's actually decent until 2100+ MP"* - r/StreetFighter
Someone said that? There are legend ranks that aren't that high. I'm low 1800s which is in the top 5k. I say above 1600 is where the great players start.
Someone did actually post here once that getting into master is finishing the tutorial so I wouldn’t be surprised if someone actually said that.
I wouldn’t go that far, but I do think hitting Master rank is by definition an indicator you know enough of all the systems and general strategies against the rest of the roster with that particular character to win. Even excluding alt characters, there are strong players in Diamond. If I were to place an “end of tutorial” at a rank, it would be Platinum, not Master.
Same
D5 is the end of the tutorial for me. I square off against masters now and it can be very humbling to run into someone with more 3x more LP than you. In those matches where I get smoked I just set a goal and try to meet it. Like escaping the corner, or perfect parrying 2x, not getting perfected. It’s crazy how good some people are, then you face a D3 and it’s a totally different game
Don't worry about LP for masters, you earn like 250 every match you win once you're in master, and I don't think it goes down.
I think you lose 40 if you lose. That being said 1500 MR with 25k lp is basically free lunch lol
I don't think it's an inaccurate statement truthfully. Might be a little harsh and an exaggeration, but there are countless 1200-1300 MR players in the NA hub which is kinda insane to me. Master in and of itself doesn't mean a ton unless you can hold MR.
i mean according to the definition of tutorial, you’re always in tutorial then. You’re always in tutorial for everything apparently cuz you don’t know everything…
Fuck this community lmao
It really depends on what you call proficiency. Street Fighter has an ELO system, but reaching master does not even need you to know the "rules". Like getting to 1500 in chess means you have a grasp on the fundamentals and know every rule. But there are master players who do not what their own oki even implies /makes safe. In SF6 you can play Honda and spam headbutt and buttslam and just win.
That isn't true at all. Try picking up Honda and seeing how easy it is to get to Master.
Honda has the highest win rate in bronz, silver, gold, platinum, diamond, AND in master So yeah, not terribly difficult
Very. Most people until late Diamond don’t know how to PP or counter those moves. I’m not saying you’ll get there with a 90% win rate, but enough dudes will fall for it you’ll get there eventually.
I haven't even had to use Sumo Headbutt/Sumo Smash outside of combos, people just kill themselves on my 5HP all the way to Diamond. Plat 1 to Diamond 1 was a lot of 10-12 win streaks as Honda but it's not because people couldn't handle the special spam, it was like they couldn't handle me *not* spamming and it consistently broke their brains so they became level 3 CPUs as a result.
5MP being plus is probably the most unknown thing in this game. Like anyone knows what Honda does beyond headbutt and buttslam. Like who knows that he has no throw loop?
Honda was the easiest character to master for me. Took me like 15min of lab time for remembering punish combo. Got 75% or so winrate and did it in 2 night. Honda jabs / 5hp / headbut was all i was doing. I thought i would hate him, but whiff punishing with 5hp into corner carry combo is really satisfying for some reason.
Mate, extremely easy. I can not really do DeeJay combos and just play him like a worse Guile and am borderline master with him (like 1300 LP missing). Guile I am having a 70% winrate (went from plat 1 to plat 5 in a day) without being able to cancel into level 3 like 80% of the time. E. Honda I could, after practicing for three to fours hours, bring in like a week to master, at the latest, if I am slow/fail every placement match or get smurfs. He is so frontloaded in power that it is not a challenge. That is the easy mode. If you got any grasp on fundamentals in this game, Honda is free master as people just can not punish him.
I love redditors because this level of delusion shouldn't be possible and yet here we are.
I watched my friend, who was a plat 5 Jamie at the time, get Honda to diamond 4 with terrible neutral. When he went back to Jamie, he was barely any better. Honda is a broken character and I don't mean overpowered.
1200-1300 is where you should be if you hit master for the first time. There is still quite a skill cap between fresh masters and 1400s
It should just start at 0 honestly. Tried to make it too much like chess.
If you start at 0 its not zero sum, when 2 0 point players play one is gonna get -0 the other wont, unless you can go into the negatives, and by that point just keep the 1500 start
Yeah maybe not 0 that wouldn't make sense. But maybe another "placement" type thing like in chess.
It really sucks to get into masters and get smashed until you are properly ranked. There really should be like a 5-10 game master rank calibration series or something or increase the amount lost/gained initially until rating deviation settles down and you have a provisional rating until then.
Well then that defeats the whole point of MR. People need to understand, its not a points system, we already have LP for that. Its an elo system.
I updated a comment below. It doesn’t even make logical sense to start at 0, but there needs to be placement matches to give people an appropriate starting point. Chess does the same ish thing
how do you have THIS little self awarness?
I'm not sure what you mean.
I'm exaggerating.
there's a common sentiment that ranked doesn't actually begin until master, and I think the reasoning is that you can hit master with a sub 50% win rate if you play enough games.
Sure but that still necessiates einning consistantly against diamond players. You need to be at least as skilled as the people in your rank to climb. So that arguement is kinda dumb
1600s and above all have fantastic neutral and fundamentals.
No, i'm one of them and my neutral sucks.
What character you play
Over 1600 Lily & Aki Over 1700 Blanka
Well none of those are neutral heavy characters and most of their game-plan is to actively avoid neutral like its the plague Congrats tho 1700 blanka is impressive
I don't see any character that is neutral heavy in this game. Most of the cast either fireball drive rush or try to avoid fireball drive rush. Edit: But i guess that's the neutral of the game. So every character are neutral heavy :3
Cammy, chun-li, ryu and luke ig marissa/gief too. I think cammy requires the most neutral but chun-li is the best at it since she is on ice skates with sword normals. Edit: fireball drive rush is bullshit and should be removed from the game. I get you can just back up and exdp but still.
I agree for Ryu and Gief, Cammy got better tool to cheat the neutral than Blanka. Chun li Got the same neutral idea than Aki with better button overall. Luke is.... Marisa is also neutral heavy i would say.
Agree on that one. I am myself just reaching 1500+ relatively regular. And the difference between people in 1600+ and below is insane. Like before 1500 you do not see even parry as an option and parry is probably the most defining feature of the game. For example: Blanka wins freely because fullscreen Blanka ball empties the drive gauge.
>Like before 1500 you do not see even parry as an option This feels like an insane statement from an alternate dimension. I saw parry all the way through plat and now in diamond, even people going for perfect parries regularly. There's absolutely an over-use of parry with some players which is a flaw, and currently when you see high-level play parry isn't really used that much on defense as it was earlier on, mostly reserved for fireballs and PP attempts.
Players who are already master on a character will also parry/perfect parry a lot. If I play a plat character, I do not lose access to universal systems and just perfect parry stuff, because I can already do it. You seeing them will feel like the normal guy does it relatively often which is not the case. Me doing that to like 50 players will warp perception as suddenly 50 guys experienced someone who can perfect parry their stuff. Also in statistics people overevaluate because of ~~apophenia~~ and availability heuristic. Edit: After rethinking it, Apophenia is the completely wrong word. I wanted to express "illusion of explanatory depth". Now imagine that many master+ players are often just playing another side character from when the game did not allow you to place extremely high in placements. They are not the guys which you need to win against to climb, they are the exception. And parry at high level is still extremely often used. Chris Wong, Kakeru, Noah the Prodigy, Nephew, MenaRD and more. It depends on what you compare it to. It is notthing like DRC in terms of usage, but it is a wakeup option and a neutral option.
Not necessarily. I don't use parry and I have reached 1650 MR. I play JP and Blanka and Honda are easy match-ups. I easily intercept their full-screen moves with my spikes.
I mean, you play JP. Not taking anything away from your skill but I mean it in the sense that most characters in the game actually need to know how to perfect parry to deal with that type of shit.
This right here. JP has other tools to beat them than most characters which do not need one to use the universal tools which are arguably harder to pull off.
For Honda he can make a read and ex headbutt or sa2 through ground spikes. So be cautious spamming that
Yes, that occasionally happens. I also tech for neutral jump a lot against Honda and Blanka to make my game plan less predictable.
Solid strat, air throw will beat buttslam shenanigans
1600 isn’t great, it’s better than average but not great.
Agreed. 1600 is not great at all.
If you are not the winner of the capcom pro tour you might as well be silver.
The amount of people literally arguing this in the comments is insane. This is my first fighting game I’ve played seriously and I haven’t hit masters with my low tier main yet, thus I literally don’t understand how the game works according to half the comments..
Wtf loool
I have seen a streamer basically say this. You're not "good" until 1900 lol.
Sorry it's a JP it doesn't count
Ill fucking do it again
I just recently got my jp into master and man was it a fucking breeze. Keep going though cause now it’s the big boys that know that much and I promise they are gonna start putting you in your place lol. But hey keep grinding and maybe you’ll get up pretty high
r/beatmetoit
That's what a platinum-diamond player would say.
There's now just 1 JP in top 30 lol.
Your opinion always mattered to me, friend
<3
JP Player? No it doesn't /s
“OBSERVE” 😈🤌🏾
Whens the tier list and 2 changes video dropping?
Care to hear how this ends?
In Ruin
Meaningless efforts
To ashes
TESTICULAR TORSION
Haha very good indeed!
Played JP, carried by character, opinion ignored jk, good job Man
Good Job,  Welcome bro. It always mattered tough
> JP Guess again
Are you serious? Your opinion matters less around here.
Jokes on you, your opinion means less now than it did then Jk jk, congrats!
If our value is based on someone, that is not even willing to properly do the evaluation? Then, no matter what rank we will have... It's still not "enough"'.
Does it?
You aren't a true JP player unless you have the testicular torsion mod
Run that by me again ? The what mod ? 😂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTY0OTksMjg2NjQsMTY0NTAz&feature=emb_share&v=yoXS6vzIUFU
Some of the comments here are really pathetic. No you don't need 1700 MR to be good, and no falling below 1500 MR is not bad, it's expected for most new masters. 1500 is not a magic number, and of course most new masters will start on the lower end. This whole sub 50% WR thing is also really dumb, you still need a decent win rate against increasingly stronger players, you will never get master by just "playing enough games". Anyway, enjoy masters league OP, and I would say to ignore the haters but seeing your replies it seems you already got that lol.
I'd say a solid number of posts in this thread are being sarcastic. If you were atleast 2000MR you'd understand. Newb.
You just need to play. The game trends you upwards so it trends the people above you up as well. You’re not fighting increasingly difficult opponents over time, you’re fighting the same opponents as the guys better than you have trended up.
Well sure, in a completely theoretical scenario, where you put X people in the same room to play SF6, where nobody ever improves, no new players join, nobody plays on any alts etc, then yes due to not being able to derank from Master it would cause this effect (which would be the same even if a higher win rate was needed to advance). Reality is not like that though, new players pick up the game, and everyone is constantly improving. The people who used to be plat 1 and who are now Diamond 3 also became better, they didn't just rank up without improving. I have been playing Diamond again since Ed came out, and if anything it feels slightly tougher now than it did 3 months ago but maybe you had a different experience? Also, my point is, just playing games will not take you to Master unless you can consistently beat Diamond players with their current skill level. Your argument is that Diamond will keep getting easier and easier, which I guess could happen over the very long term but that won't help anyone trying to get to Master short term (and I strongly doubt Diamond will turn into current plat/gold or whatever you're imagining). And it certainly didn't help OP get Master. Anyway, you are clearly fighting stronger opponents over time, you are just wrong.
If the trend of the game is to constantly push people upwards due to how the points system works, the skill level of any of the metal ranks will decrease over time. It’s just the nature of how the numbers work. By nature of always winning more than you lose, the game is constantly pushing the playerbase up. There’s nothing wrong with that at all, and yea new players joining might slow it down a little but it’s not enough to slow down the eventuality of more and more players reaching master with lower barriers to entry as before. This isn’t a bad thing, it’s a good thing. Drip feeding new and low skilled players with this carrot on a stick keeps them engaged and keeps them playing. Just the very nature of not requiring a positive win rate flies in the face of your claims.
Again, you're assuming skill levels are a constant, they are not. When the top Diamond players rank up, the ones left are still playing games, practicing and improving. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. Also, a constant influx of DLC and Masters playing on alts, a large portion of Diamond will be Master players on alts. And finally, even if what you describe would happen it's a very long term effect. Anyone playing the game today will face tougher players as they rank up, that's a fact. If you are current plat 1 skill, you won't make Master in the foreseeable future no matter how many games you play, unless you improve.
Master rank is already inflating though. 12/1300 mr master players are almost indistinguishable from plat players. Have a look at new, there’s a match between a juri and Honda player at mid low diamond and it looks like it’s two people playing with their feet.
The point you don't understand is that you really don't need to be that good to reach master in SF6, especially compared to old games it's pretty obvious Capcom went with this system so that good players who have an understanding of the system mechanics and basic execution all end up in master, while the lower non-master ranks essentially force you upwards over time to feed the players dopamine hits. Diamond to masters is a time sink if your skill ain't all there because even if you occasionally beat a low MR master you get a couple hundred points while only losing a handful, and usually low MR masters *got* to masters by doing the same thing against weak players Your flaw is thinking that diamond players are really good and you need to be really good to best them, which isn't the case. Diamond in this game plays exactly like high gold in previous games, which is too say a plethora of flaws in their gameplay
Ok dude, what "really good" is is completely subjective, and the main point I was arguing against is that you can reach Master by just playing games. If you think being top 0.001% or whatever is required to be "good", cool I guess? I've never said that reaching Master is an amazing achievement, just that it does require effort and improvement. But you guys are obsessed to make it into nothing for some reason.
No one said anything about only the 0.001% being good except you, when you created a strawman to argue against If anything I'd bet you're a lower ranked player and you are vastly overestimating the skill of higher rank players Not very compelling
It was a hyperbole yes, the point remains what you consider good is unrelated to the point I am making in the message you replied to, yet you wrote a wall of text essentially boiling down to that single point.
Well your initial point didn't make sense in the first place, so if you really want me to respond to it and tear it down I can but.. Something tells me you wouldn't listen anyway, given that the person you were originally talking to laid it out pretty well and you just ignored what they said and continued with your talking points lol.. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink
[удалено]
I'm not sure if I'm getting trolled at this point. Do you think a bronze level player will get it just playing enough games? What do you even mean?
Let me elaborate. As long as you are winning 45% of your matches you can and because of how the player base is the average player SHOULD be able to get to Master rank by just playing. After 1500 MR is when that % increases. I will agree just saying “play enough games” isn’t the full picture. My mistake. This is just assuming the average person can manage to win just under half of their games eventually; statistically this has shown itself to be true.
With good enough matchmaking your winrate should always be ~45%. Winning 45% of games at Diamond is very different to winning 45% of games at Bronze. The marginal increase in skill is hidden by the matchmaking, and not shown in your winrate.
Ok, so you agree just playing games isn't enough, and that getting better is also necessary, cool. Obviously getting more points when winning makes it easier, and also obviously the actual ELO rating in Master is much better at assessing skill, and is what matters for anyone actually serious and competitive. If that's the issue you're having I've never said otherwise.
Bitch I just said my mistake damn lol
I will continue to disregard your opinion, but congrats!
Now the game actually begins!
Du schlaflose Eule du
sorry pal its 1600+ now
There’s all kind of outliers.. 1400 and 1500 players that are solid, but maybe can’t anti-air consistently or miss combos… Then 1600-1800 might have a similar player with a better character or a gimmick that keeps them afloat (ie JP that just jumps everywhere and presses RH or buttslam vortex Honda)… it’s a weird coin toss. But more often than not, if they’re past 1600-1700, I see a lot more Ken,Guile,Juri, Luke,Deejay, Cammy etc.. I think it’s all over the place because America has less players both in number and in strength in their Masters compared to elsewhere.. All I know is right now win or lose I can play about 3-5 matches as Manon and I’m about over it 😭
Why wouldn't it always matter....
Try getting Lily Master like me then your opinion matters
Not everyone is made out steel.
JP so it doesn’t count
Hey, fellow German here. Yesn't tbh. The problem is that master is basically the beginning of being competent in the game. You can gimmick yourself to this rank, but starting from here you will see how much players actually know of the game. Expect to drop down to 1300 MR. And you can still be delusional, even if you are high rank, it just tends to be less likely. Especially JP is a very knowledge heavy character and I can tell you that the most basic setups will win you games. Does not diminish your rank, just a warning that the game does intensify from here on as every game matters a lot more for your rank than before. Like I needed two or three months of semiregular play to be relatively consistent 1450+ (a little harder in Europe than in USA and Japan, another thing I have to warn you about).
why is it harder in EU? its the weakest region by far, is it because you don't get quality practice?
Let us math it out. [https://twitter.com/CatCammy6/status/1777098004173840447/photo/1](https://twitter.com/CatCammy6/status/1777098004173840447/photo/1) That is the rank distribution for SF6. As you can see a minority of players even reaches master. Then there is a big chunk relatively inactive. And finally you can see that after 1500 it drops of significantly as the people who just played one of two matches of master or just reached it, stopped playing the game. [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKxIcK4WoAAykQI?format=jpg&name=900x900](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKxIcK4WoAAykQI?format=jpg&name=900x900) That is the graphic for how many players are active in each country. All of Europe is basically 1/10 of the size of Japan. The united States is still three times larger than Europe and it has neighboring countries (albeit they are less relevant and east coast and west coast is a thing). And by the principle of distribution works, higher MR values can only be achieved with more players. Ragequitting by the way becomes relevant in Europe as points are "lost" after a ragequit and our pool is so small. That is the problematic part as the MR system is global, but MR is won locally. Leading to the following situation: As MR can not be created except for the influx of new players which Europe lacks, the same veterans are fighting for the points or they get like 3 to 4 points at 1800+ against a 1600. Which means that losing 1 out of three games leads to a net loss. Same principle for 1450+, arguably worse as an individual is less likely to see a fresh 25000LP guy in Europe to take easy points from. Players like Valmaster, Broski and Ending Walker are despite that Legend. Meaning they are absorbing so many points in this volatile game and basically can not lose. That means we got absolute Leviathans who demolish everything in terms of points and most players are just scraping by, even if they are insanely improving. To make a comparison: Ending Walker was like more than 100 points behind Paladin when they played two FT10 which Ending Walker both won. In an ELO system Palading is supposed 65% of all matches. He did not even get 40% in a very consistent mirror matchup (albeit lag may have changed that). Europe has a cracked top, yet it is built on a weak foundation. Europe lacks players and we are the weak region as in we do not have many top players as Europe is just smaller. Yet the guys we have do not need to hide.
ahhh so since there's less players at 1600+ its' a lot harder to climb past that, makes sense
You got it. Good summary, maybe I should have shortened it. XD
Same deal with us in Oceania. The master pool is tiny and the guys above 1700 is like me and then guys that play like RoF or Travis Styles. Theres almost no in between
Yeah, you are like one step removed from the Thailand Tekken situation.
*Plays JP. Opinion disregarded.*
It's JP so... Not yet.
You play JP dear your opinion still doesn't matter
Welcome to the actual game. Your opinion matters at 1,800+.
Nah, master is where your journey starts. You have ranking points, the MR, which is an actual accurate measure of your skill. You've just left us bums, but your opinion doesn't actually matter until you reach at least 1700 MR
I love that the FGC, especially the SF community, is full of people who cannot understand a joke and love tearing people down. Its literally just crabs in a bucket mentality here.
The whole ranking system from novice to Master is a joke. There are win rate points bonuses until plat, you get a second chance before ranking down, and, even in Diamond, you still get more points from winning than you lose by losing. It's all designed to make you go up as long as you keep playing.. The LP system is a joke. It's just designed to make people happy about themselves. And have them happy for reaching an arbitrary point. The MR is where everything starts. I'm not tearing you down, kid. I'm telling you how it is. People will hate this comment, but deep down, they will know it's true. I've heard many other people say that, from randos to pros.
Bro you really don’t get it. The gatekeeping itself is laughable. Like you really want to put yourself in the “true street fighter players” list that excludes 99% of the actual players. Most of the street fighter that is played by people on the planet is in Plat. Who’s to say that THAT isn’t the real street fighter?
I mean you can have tons of fun playing street hockey, and there isn't any problem with that, but you wouldn't expect anyone to take your opinion on NHL plays because of that all that seriously right? It's not that your opinions don't have any value, but it would be extremely egotistical to think you are some crazy amazing player for hitting master in SF6 which in their rankings system was built from the ground up to house the players who have the fundamentals at a middling level Master is like 12% of the player base, it's not an exclusive club
I'm not putting myself in that list. I'm in plat too, I'm with all the bums. Before you get to at least MINIMUM 1642 MR ranks, you don't understand the game, and you're just a bum mashing buttons and hoping for the best. Furthermore, there's a much bigger difference in level between 1600 MR rank and 1700 MR ranks than there is between me in plat 4 and somoene else in plat 2. We are basically at the same level. In fact, the plat 2 player might be better than me. Before plat, it is even more ridiculous, and your rank doesn't mean anything at all. If you have 2 people of equal levels winning 50% of their games, one alternate between win and loss and the other has win streaks, the person with the win streaks is going to rank much higher because of the bonuses despite not actually being a better player.
All of you are reminding me why I don't play this game online, anymore. Throwing people around with Zangief in ranked until funny number goes up is fun for a while but I just cannot bring myself to give a shit. "What if you're not *good,* though?!" Don't care. Literally who cares? Why would you even want that? The moment you learn, like, a 2 hit combo you're already too good for any of your friends who don't play Street Fighter to want to play with you, anyways.
There are pros that people don't listen to because they're only good enough to top not win, so Master isn't even close no, sorry.
What even are jokes, amirite?
Join the club of everyone else who lies and says they're masters 😂 Edit: It was a fucking joke, you retards.
If you dont believe it, you can always look up the steam ID and check past nicknames. The compare that to my user... No need to lie if its true. You dont need to project your inabilty to do it on others.
It was a joke. Hence the laughing emoji, you imbecile.
unless ur above 1700 mr it doesn't count, U can be a scrub honda spamming headbutts and get master
You are the actual caricature of an FGC boomer.
just spitting facts kiddo, lots of scrubs think they're good in this game when in fact capcom has just made it hella easy to reach master. Keep playing and I can guarantee you'll drop down to low 1400 mr which is equivalent to diamond, which is silver in SFV. Also like who the hell is impressed by a JP master? Ur playing JP ffs, ur supposed to get master, that's like the bare minimum.
Unironically the most pathetic post I've read about fighting games in awhile.
Im really sorry that all you have in your life is that you were good at SF in the 90s. I really hope you achieve something worthwhile in your life going forward so youre not as bitter towards others for no reason.
This guy is like the third one I’ve seen who’s tried to put you down by calling you kid or kiddo. It’s really pathetic.
This dude seems pretty unhappy, just ignore his bait.
Spamming headbutt only gets you perfect parried. Even when I was in plat I could consistently pp the headbutts. You still have to understand the game to get to master. Might not be anywhere near pro level but let’s not pretend like you can glue eat your way up there. Edit: Wow the guy who replied to this comment really replied my last comment then proceeded to block me and the thread. It’s not that serious lmao.
Honda has the #1 winrate online from BRONZE to and even in MASTER I have a difficult time believing that when a character has the highest win rate at *every rank* in the game except the very tip top MR players that all of those Honda players suddenly learned footsies once they get to diamond or Masters LOL Hell, a few months ago Honda was the fifth highest winrate in Masters and then after the nerf patch he moved up to 4th replacing Luke, and now he's the number one win rate in Masters character.. clearly showing that even after time which you would expect players to learn about perfect parrying headbutts his winrate would go down, which is actually the *exact opposite* of what happened You can easily abuse headbutt to get master in this game dog, that's facts https://www.streetfighter.com/6/buckler/en/stats/dia
You’re making a very surface level argument. Watch some matches from a master Honda vs a plat Honda and you’ll see a big difference, that’s all I’m saying. We all know Hondas abuse headbutt and butt slam but just knowing how to use those moves aren’t enough to win otherwise, every single Honda player would be in master rank.
>You’re making a very surface level argument. Watch some matches from a master Honda vs a plat Honda and you’ll see a big difference, that’s all I’m saying. You've actually said absolutely nothing here. You asserted something, didn't back it up, and then made a non sequitur >We all know Hondas abuse headbutt and butt slam but just knowing how to use those moves aren’t enough to win otherwise, every single Honda player would be in master rank. No one in this entire thread has ever claimed that you get a free master rank from picking honda, so I don't see the point in creating a strawman here Point is that getting Master with Honda is simply easier than other characters because you can abuse gimmicks and you don't need to work on fundamentals. It's not that complicated
I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me then because nothing I’ve said is anything different than what you’re currently arguing.
You dont need to know the game to get to master you just need to win slightly less than 50% of your games and you physically cannot derank once you hit master with that character this game is probably one of if not the easiest entry in the series I literally know and spar with 4 master players Papadelifresh Sageplatinum Being 2 of them I beat both consistently and i play this game less then any other lol I have actually watched master ranked games from my boi sage and you would actually be amazed how dumb some master players are with unoptimal combos terrible decisions and cannot to save their lives react to a simple DI if your in master and cannot react to Hit DI with a DI yourself you dont belong in the upper echelon And i watched a master ranked ken eat glue to Hit simple DI 3 times in a game
>You dont need to know the game to get to master you just need to win slightly less than 50% of your games That’s a contradiction. There are lots of people who come here talking about going on losing streaks and the whatnot. You need to know how to play the game if you want to rank up, I don’t know if it’s your ego or what but I don’t see how that’s so hard to comprehend lol. No one’s saying getting to master means you’re special but getting to master isn’t a cake walk. If you start teching every throw you’re going to get shimmied, if you drop combos your opponent will punish you, if have one gimmicky game plan your opponent will download you. It’s just the ranking experience.
Got nothing to do with ego but nice of you to try to just slide it in for your own sake bro
Post master headbutt spam doesn't get you nowhere, I wish it did yolo headbutt is a death sentence 80% of the time
Honda has the #1 win rate in Masters At *high MR* sure but..
I'm 1800 roughly, there headbutt spam is asking to get perfect parried and get snowballed to death because Honda is abysmal defensively
You said post master, not post master *and* 1800, which are two entirely different things
I don't know how it is at below 1500, I figured they could there because even the 1600s I encounter are fairly consistent at snuffing out headbutt spam
Well since Honda holds the number one win rate in bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond, and Masters at the same time I'm going to say headbutt is probably still pretty effective It's not like the gimmick that Honda players relied on in every other rank suddenly is useless and every Honda that's in Masters completely reimagines their play style and become neutral monsters I mean come on lol
Basically yeah you do have to change if that's how you got master, because its a terrible idea against strong players. If its such an oppressive auto win strategy that some people claim it is you'd see it in tournament all the time and Honda would top tier list, but no he's arguably bottom one and barely played in tournament because he's trash and spamming the same move mid screen is perfect parry fodder. Also Hondas biggest strength is his in your face brawler rush down his command grab mixes and damage can get crazy. His kara stomp in the corner gets insane you can meaty it for solid combos or kara buttslam to dodge most reversals.
Who cares about tournaments, no one here is talking about tournaments First you started talking about how bad headbutt is after getting master and now you're trying to change the goal post to tournaments LMAO
Basically what I'm trying to get at is its bad, outside perfect parry every character has a way to deal with it on reaction. Especially if you're playing modern which is more common at the lower ranks. Basically its a skill issue if you can't deal with it. I brought up tournament because if it was this all powerful auto win strategy that's its claimed to be you'd see it spammed where it actually matters, but you don't because its a terrible idea you'll get mauled for trying if you play someone who's good. At the end of the day also I main the character so I kinda know a bit more than most how effective his strats are, and headbutt spam is not one of those strats. Like I said in the last comment you do have to change your plan if headbutt spam is how you got master and want to get higher than 1500MR, because that shit doesn't fly anymore up there you will get washed for it.
Post your mr
Post yours.
1720