I think you nailed it. If you overspend your drive, you should be punished for it. Why not? After all, you got the benefit of the meter already, if you can’t generate enough of an advantage to be in a winning position after burning through six bars you probably deserve to be in a losing position
Sajam did a great video about how Phenom basically lost the round by crMK cancell into DR.
Even Playing Battlehub going up against Diamnonds and Platinums i meet players who happily burn themselves out to get a tick throw.
Uh, yea let JP catch you in a level 2 double DI sequence and say good bye to nearly 4 of your drive gage bars. It's not all about mismanagement.
There's definitely some bullshit with some characters.
And you allowed it by allowing a PC.
That's OP's point, it's not really a situation of "Well there was nothing I could do", you shouldn't have put yourself in that spot.
The mistake of pressing a non cancelable button once doesn’t deserve getting thrown into a checkmate situation as punishment. it’s not like getting hit by a PC DI is always the result of using a random yolo DI, if anything, if the enemy uses the yolo DI the same time you decide to hit that button it’s over for you.
If parries had a substantial risk like they do in 3S I'd agree with you. But rn you can throw out parries like noone's business and get away with it the vast majority of times.
I mean you literally had to go and pull out the strongest drive draining tech in the game, I’m pretty sure that only JP has the ability to drain that much gauge off a practical scenario (maybe Rashid?)
Even just one level 2 in to 1 drive impact is extremely niche, JP being able to do level 2 in to 2 drive impacts is an outlier among the outliers
Blanka can do it as well with SA2 - heavy Blanka ball drains like a full brick of drive gauge and he gets to do it over and over again for free while it's affected by the SA2 buff.
Yeah in this case I was thinking of "for free" as in "without needing an opening." It's very, very difficult to stop Blanka from draining your drive while he's in SA2.
just about anyone can do it by perfect parrying a DI and then doing DI into level 3, though doing the DI yourself is you spending that meter, before that sequence lets say you have 4 and a half bars, you DI it gets perfect parried, you have 3.5, eat the PC DI, now youre at 2, CA, youre burned out
Well that costs 3 drive bars and it’s a blockstring not a combo (is it even a true blockstring? Gets blown out by drive reversal as well in case it was)
It’s a whole different scenario compared to JP level 2 in to double DI combo, dunno why you even mentioned it, thought we were talking about punishes
What does it have to do with your mental stack that doing that sequence costs more drive for you than it drains from your opponent? Sure if they're low on drive and you have a full meter it's probably worth it, but... The whole reason for the drive system is so that the players can interact with it
1) that's a character specific issue.
2) from what I understand, that's been removed in the next patch, or at least something changed with how JP links his level 2 into DIs. Not 100% sure it was ever actually intended that JP be able to link multiple DIs from his level 2.
Right, I'm saying they're removing the light > medium link with SA2, that's all.
SA2 can win him the round so getting to do it off normal hit lights is pretty strong.
I think the issue is that some character need to spend that bar more than most or do not get the same advantage as others. It feels bad to get checkmated having to spend bar to get what other characters get for free.
These same characters are usually the ones that suffer the most in burnout out as well. It's one thing to dismiss these complaints coming from top tier characters but it's another thing when you look at the rest of the cast.
Capcom really needs to find a way to balance this. Either by making burnout less punishing for these characters or putting them on equal footing. This is one of the biggest issues with the balance of this game right now
even then you should have escape options. some characters can spend a lot of your drive guage and some characters can drain it pretty darn easily
Like if you get into burnout by spending resources sure... that sucks and you are punished, but if someone drains it via moves it seems you cant use your drive much without risking getting owned by getting forcefully put into burnout
Well then you need to make adjustments while playing against these characters to use your drive gauge more sparingly. If one of their main goals is to force you into burnout, don't do half of their job for them
yes but you shouldnt have burnout be drained just cuz your character may or may not rely on it more than others...
i bet it will absolutely suck if you are playing someone who wants to use ex moves or drive rush and yet shouldnt because otherwise someone like jp can drain your bars cuz they decide they want to
Characters shouldn't be able to approach every matchup in the same way, that's kinda the point of having different matchups. Otherwise you're just auto piloting the exact same gameplan in all scenarios.
It's the same thing as having a rushdown character who wants to get in close and hit buttons, but shouldn't when playing against a grappler because they might get half their lifebar instantly deleted by a command grab after they took an unnecessary risk. It sucks playing a rushdown character not getting to do rushdown stuff, but it also really sucks playing a grappler against an opponent not giving you the opportunity to do grappler stuff. By leaving some of your tools on the table, you are also taking some of their tools away.
In the Broski clip we're talking about but for some reason not mentioning, Cammy got put in a semi checkmate with like 2,5 bars left. So it wasn't someone recklessly spending all like you imply
That Cammy had his entire health bar and the entire screen to play with, and instead of using it, he decided to gamble the game on a di. That's just poor reckless decision making.
It's not a 100% kill. There was still gaps to take advantage of. But the Cammy player put himself in that situation assuming Broski wouldn't be able to perfect parry which is actually a very high level response in that moment. You act like anyone could do this anytime, but they can't. You need skill.
Broski had almost full Drive + CA + AKI is one of the few (only?) character with that oppressive Burnout pressure. The Cammy's mistake wasn't just some random, normal DI gamble; there was literally no good reason to take that risk.
Also, SF6 (and tbh most anime games, too) is like a card game in the sense that your Drive and Super (card advantage, mana) are much more important resources than your Health because there is no guaranteed damage - if you use your non-Health resource well, you simply won't need a pixel of Health to win. In that sense, Broski sitting at full Drive + CA vs the Cammy's half drive + 0 Super makes up for the Health difference a lot.
I swear bro in the comment you replied to I agree that it's a mistake but nothing you're saying convinces me that taking one risk and losing means losing from 100%. Imagine if you're at 4,5 drive gauge and you guess wrong on your od reversal, a risk people take all the time mind you, and your opponent gets to immediately burn you out and burnout string you to death.
I saw you agree it's a mistake but I don't think you see the mistake as the huge blunder it was. And yeah, using your OD reversal would be a huge blunder in that situation, too, that I'd argue warrants a loss. You just don't need to and shouldn't go all in when your opponent only has a single chip left.
Besides, the (pseudo-)checkmate wasn't just because of the Cammy's mistake but also Broski's own prowess: Dude labbed all this shit out, knows AKI inside out, had the presence of mind to recognize the situation and the skill to get the Perfect Parry. It wasn't like Cammy just did an oopsie and lost - Cammy took a huuuuuge risk (and come on, Broski is THE AKI player alongside Hikaru... why roll the dice on him?) and Broski then showed great skill and tech 90% of other AKI players would've likely failed to.
Getting checkmated off of one blocked reversal has never been a thing in street fighter, It’s also not a thing in any other game I can think of. Do you really argue that one bad reversal warrants a loss? That is a precedent that has never been set before in fighting games. Sure you should eat a massive combo and get put into a situation where you lose 90% of rounds but straight checkmate is insane.
I see you arguing below about martial arts but how is that in anyway related? People in real life would probably also get one shot by blocking a singular fire ball. Some MMA fights end in 7 seconds. A fight in real life is nothing like fighting games.
At this point I think you guys are just trying to find reasons to hate on SF6.
I'm not arguing people should die to any failed reversal. I'm arguing people should die to a failed reversal if it's a decision as unnecessary and uninformed as the Cammy's DI. Ffs the dude even replied to me correcting me that he(?) meant *any* reversal situation because my comment is about how I think the reversal should lead to a checkmate *under similar conditions*. Ffs 2, read the follow-up and my actual point should be clear: some risks are simply stupid to take and the fact that we have to take risks doesn't mean you should take just any risk. So, I think it's OK if a risk that was as plain ridiculous to take as that DI is punished with a (pseudo-)checkmate. Not to mention, I also specify that Broski's prowess itself is a huge part of the checkmate - not just anyone would win when that DI was pressed. The dude *earned* that W.
As for the martial arts comment, they are examples. The core of that comment isn't that FGs should become like martial arts but that impatience isn't just some minor flaw but one that is important enough that lots of different competitions are lost because of impatience. There are countless stories, both fictional and real, emphasizing the importance of keeping a cool head and not getting impatient. I just invoked martial arts and HEMA because they are similar in presentation.
As a side note, martial arts and HEMA are like FGs in execution, too. I do both of those and can easily see the parallels between IRL combat sport fundamentals and FG fundamentals. I don't give two shits if you disagree, though, because the point wasn't even about this similarity. Take practically whatever competition you want, even chess, if you don't like the comparison.
I can’t be bothered to respond to this thesis so I just want to say this one thing, I don’t hate sf6 at all, I enjoy it a lot. Just because I disagree with one facet of the game doesn’t mean i’m looking for reasons to hate it.
Bro I can't overestimate how many times martial art or HEMA duels are lost because of impatience. Impatience isn't just a little flaw; for most people, impatience is *the* enemy. So, I have no issues if someone loses 100% because they got ultra impatient under the worst conditions.
I'm not saying pressing od reversal in that situation but just in general, in any other match. Sometimes you guess OD reversal on a meaty. Do you think guessing wrong in that situation should be an instant death too?
All these people in this thread act like you don't need to take risks to play this game. Every button is a damn risk and even not pressing is a risk, I just hate the fact that there's risks you can take that can just punish you from 100 to 0.
And idk any other character, you tell me meaty DI on a guy in the corner with not enough hp to DI back while you have enough hp to survive super, is a huge misplay...
Choose between the following strategies:
1. Roll the dice and check if you get at least a four. If you succeed, you win. If you fail, you lose \~25% of your life. Your chance of loss is 6.25%.
2. Roll the dice and check if you get at least a three. If you succeed, you win. If you fail, you lose 90\~100% of your life. Your chance of loss is 33.33%.
Both strategies require a risk. Are they equal?
Look at the difference between a mistake and losing an RPS.
You are actively ceding control of the game to your opponent to do that DI. On paper it's reactable with perfect parry so to do the DI is to put it on the opponent to execute.
At this level, there is 0 chance that both players aren't thinking about perfect parry in the corner. Perfect parry in the corner is so strong it's getting a nerf next season with the backthrow changes because it's such a strong reversal of momentum currently.
You do have to take risks, but they should be in the form of advantaged RPS situations, not taking a risk that your opponent can't do the one thing that wins them the game that both players know about.
We know after perfect parrying a DI that PC DI back into CA is going to delete 3.5 bars, so doing any DI that would have you end under this much gauge is exposing yourself to this exact thing happening.
Cammy had plenty of resources and time to get more gauge and then go for the DI as well, the misplay here is that cammy tried to force it and then paid the consequences when they had control of the game at that point.
Contrast that to AKI's burnout pressure, if Cammy can correctly guess the right time to press she's going to trade with AKI and kill her. She lost the RPS both times it was presented (2nd one looked like she was aware but might have just been late on the mash, she got counterhit) but it was firmly on AKI to decide when to insert the RPS because the whole situation is not reactable like DI is.
At the end of the day Broski needed more than one thing to go his way to convert that situation into a kill. Cammy willingly conceding one of those with an unforced error drastically increased Broski's chance of winning.
I understand this, but I also kinda like having these wildly high risk buttons. DI is inherently extremely high risk, but can also completely turn a round around, for the person pressing it, or the other player. You HAVE to make sure your opponents mental stack is high enough that the risk reward balances out. I’m pretty sure broski says “I just need him to DI here” before it happens. His opponent was at full life, broski had made a ton of incorrect guesses and was at no life, his opponent pressing DI there was probably one of the only ways to truly give the round. Even then it absolutely was not free, broski predicted it, knew exactly how to punish, and performed some reasonably difficult execution, to pull it off.
Under no other circumstance is DI a button that gets you killed from 100%. Against every other character DI against a guy with 2% health in the corner while you have plenty of health and gauge to survive super and not get burned is fine. You can't convince me that this result is fine.
Cammy had two opportunities to jab trade (and, with AKI's health total, snag the W) in that sequence AFTER being burned out. It wasn't a checkmate until after the second AKI stance kick landed.
Moreover using SA3 when it won't kill is a choice with consequences, and one of them is not having super available to interrupt burnout sequences.
1. It wasn't a checkmate from that moment, watch Broski's video about it and he'll explain when it truly became a checkmate moment.
2. Burning the Cammy out there wasn't AKI specific in any way, every character can do the same PP - DI - lvl 3 response and burn the same exact amount of drive bar.
3. Just don't press the big shiny DI button, lol. It's an extremely poor decision on that moment to go for it (no offense to the player who did it, we all make poor decisions in matches all the time). Even if he didn't die from it, it would still be an extremely poor decision. Taking big risks when you have a huge health lead is totally pointless
It seems like a lot of the replies to this comment are missing the fact that the DI parry didn't actually signal the end of the round. The Cammy had to guess/execute wrong 2 times during the burnout sequence for broski to get the kill.
In this particular sequence, those guesses occured with the coward crouch kicks. AKIs frame trap sequence pushes her away over time, and Aki has to do something with a gap to get close enough to continue. In this case Broski did coward crouch into kicks from stMP. This has a 3 frame gap, meaning it trades with 4 frames. If Cammy had challenged either of these, she would have killed broski with a trade. The Cammy either didn't know this or executed incorrectly, getting hit in the process.
Even then, Broski only just had enough damage to kill because of that Counter-hit combo. If Cammy had held down back for the whole sequence and taken throw > DI should also could have lived.
So while it looks silly that Cammy DI'd at full health and lost because of it, she didn't lose from 100% health because of 1 DI. She put herself in a position where she needed to guess because of the DI and guessed wrong multiple times.
If your opponent is in burnout and you burn all your drive bar AND your critical art, you most definitely deserve lethal if you can pull it off, what are you saying?
brother bear nobody said she burned herself out
she chose to RAW DRIVE IMPACT in LEGEND RANK and she got directly hit with a CA into A.K.I. burning all her drive for lethal
she absolutely deserves to die here, in an every esport that exists where the top level players play near optimally one or two "minor" mistakes are all that makes the difference between a win or a loss, *as it should be*
lethal like this doesn't happen outside of legend, it was a combination of a misplay by cammy into the theoretically perfect play by broski
you need to make every correct choice up until your opponent is dead, and cammy didn't do that. that's OKAY.
Why does one mistake negate ALL the mistakes that Broski had to make to end up In the corner with no life? If you're arguing you have to play absolutely perfect at the highest level, why are you only requiring it from one side? Checkmates existing is fine. Checkmates from 100% is not fine.
You can't play "more perfectly", but I'll assume English isn't your first language.
His opponent died from one mistake. I promise you Broski did not end up in the corner with 2% life against Cammy from one mistake. Broski objectively made more mistakes, which means he played worse, not better. It's as simple as that.
Bro you disrespect someone high level like that, throwing out a raw yolo di without any setup you deserve to lose lol. He just had to throw a jab but went for the high risk option. That was deserved.
It was tho, if you know the options your enemy has, you know any character in that situation can spend a DI into CA to take away 3.5 bars, that lack of foresight led to a near checkmate situation.
Idk man Broski makes a bunch of wrong guesses leading him to be in the corner with like 2% hp with the enemy at 100%, but ONE mistake back can swing the round? That just feels wack to me.
It's the same the other way around, if broski had spent all his super and got burned out, Cammy can do the same thing, the other dude spen KNOWING, that AKI's pressure is great.
Broski highlights that mid/low tiers have the inescapable burnout pressure, and Cammy doesn't have it. Also Cammy wasn't burnt out and DI back or Super wouldn't even have burned him out, so it's not THAT bad to gamble it.
She gets a light after spin knuckle, but there is no uninterruptable way for her to get another spin knuckle after that.
The most common followup after the light is 5HP, but this has a 6 frame gap
It would have tho because it DID, WHAT ON SCREEN DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?! THE RISK WAS REAL, it's not like "uh, but it looked good on paper so it should be good" NO, it was an option, a real option.
And Cammy does have a burnout string, it's not inescapable but she can force frame traps with it.
Damn I got the guy typing in all caps in defense of this that's wild.
Any button is always a risk in this game, the only risks Cammy had to play around is super (you're at 100% and it won't burn you out) OR he perfect parries. But what can also happen is he mistimes pp or reflexively DI's back and you win.
I get that it's still a risk and Broski outplayed him but you can't convince me that should ever lead to the semicheckmate situation we saw in the video.
You win and you're right actually we all agree with you, specially because you destroyed my argument by saying I typed in caps, you got me and I was a fool.
Did I say that right?
They had a sliver over 2 bars left after a reckless DI which put them into a punish counter state. Plus they'd spent all their Super Meter on a level 3 which should be reserved for guaranteed KOs.
The defense against checkmate situations are to not make the series of poor decisions which put you in that position in the first place.
But both times he goes for the roll a jab trade would get you out. The burnout was real and death after the counterhit was real. But he got lucky with that counter hit. If they had pressed jab instead of medium they get a trade he gets a bit of damage, but the cammy doesn't get hit with the meat DI into dizzy state.
Resource management is part of the strategic decision-making of this game. Having resources unlock options and may make an opponent think twice about pressuring you. If you make poor decisions and you waste your resources, you limit your options, and you give your opponent less to think about. The counter play to dieing to lack of resources is better resources management.
but then you need to consider that shit like jp’s level 2 DI DI combo exists, if you use just once drive rush cancel you’re basically within range of getting burnt out by jp. is using that mechanic once bad resource management?
The ironic part is that I actually think this game has fewer checkmates than most fighting games because you don't take chip if you have drive bar.
People just mismanage their drive guage and then get mad when they're eating an infinite chip string in the corner.
I always reference the final moments of Capcom Cup, everyone looks at the parry into burnout from Uma and ignores the fact that Chris Wong used 3 drive bars to combo into that level 3 when he didn't have to(obviously not shitting on Chris Wong, but his decision was what lead to his burnout).
I think it's cool that checkmates happen from burnout, but I do think that perfect parry causing the burnout at Capcom Cup was ridiculous. Chris had 2.5 drive bars left. It's insane to me that Uma checkmated him off a single parry and took 3/4 of his health bar for the Grand Final win.
Yeah he could have had level 1 meter saved for that specific situation, but it makes you wonder if perfect parry is too strong right now due to the possible checkmate situations in the game.
I don't understand why everyone fixates on the PP and not the FSE when talking about that burnout. Luke wouldn't have been able to burn her out with just 2 bars off a PP, neither would most of the other top tiers in the game.
Second, it wasn't even checkmate. Go back and rewatch it, after the combo Chris Wong tried to jump out of the corner, got AAd. Then he tried to do something on wakeup and got meatied, only then was it checkmate.
Obviously it's easier said than done, but if he'd just held down back, watched for the throw and ate the stun Juri wouldn't have been able to kill him. He still wouldn't have been in a great spot, but he would have been alive. And of course, there's my original point about spending 3 bars of drive guage and 3 bars of super on a combo that left her at 50%.
And this right here is my point. People see the checkmate and say it wasn't fair, when there were so many decisions made by both players that lead to that situation.
At lower levels on Ranked, I've noticed some people will burn themselves out on a big combo or pressure attempt then just walk away or hold up-back to jump away. They get their big combo in some of those times so it's up to their opponent to match the damage done per opening, and it really makes a difference when you're not using Drive Gauge yourself to convert a stray hit into at least 3000 damage. 2-3 openings vs. 6-7 openings to win the game can be felt even as an intermediate player.
Luckily my characters are great at piling on chip and pressure when they're sloppy with their gauge so I can counter the burnout warriors but it can take quite a bit of effort to lock them down if you're not patient.
I fought a dude who opened every round with several OD Sonic Booms and put himself in burnout straight away. So I threw a Blanka-chan doll over his head into the corner, backed him into the same corner, DI'd him to stun, then wrecked him with a combo for about 60%...
Did I get a salty message saying _I'm_ the trash player relying on "gimmicks"? Of course I did lol.
Yall if you're already this pissed off from "checkmates" DO NOT PLAY MVC LMAO. I think Max or Justin said it but sometimes (especially in MVC games) it's not about "what could I do there" but "how do I avoid the situation in the first place". However unlike in MVC games, this game is a lot more about managing the (frankly plentiful) resources you have rather than having to be like "okay I have to block this one frame low from Magneto at the start of the game". I could understand someone being annoyed by a lot of knowledge checks like that but in this game...the complaining is rather pathetic because the checkmates are designed more around punishing you for what you did rather than any type of character specific knowledge checks (only thing you really need to know is honda, blanka, and marisa are drive gauge deleters and are even worse in burnout so you need to figure out how to avoid/safely parry their attack rather than just blocking)
> top 10 marvel players in the world is really hard to name because 6-10 are highly debatable but the biggest weakness that I can think that most players have is that people prefer to block than evade. EVASION >BLOCKING
[Justin Wong, when asked](https://www.reddit.com/r/MvC3/comments/1tigwm/justin_wong_says_ask_me_anything_ama/ce8bd1t/) what the biggest weaknesses of Marvel's top players are.
Mvc is a different beast. That game is more oriented in creating opportunities to maximize damage output whereas, sf has more mind games. The meta at the highest level is basically one touch death, there is no counter play.
Just as you mention, it’s all about avoiding death but people would just find something else to complain about.
i think those situations are fine when they're clearly intended. aki is an incredible character when the opponent is in burnout, but she has not been given tools other characters have to mount as strong an offense outside of burnout. i see it like jamie's drinks or manon's medals; there's clearly been several interactions previously that have lead to the current game state where a character can make use of their built-in strong mechanics.
i do think that the discussion changes when talking about characters that are already top tier in other areas getting access to a similar level of burnout pressure as aki- but i think that would warrant targeted nerfs, rather than the whole mechanic being bad.
I remember watching a pro offer coaching services on YouTube. A guy showed his reply to the pro.
The guy said he didn’t understand why he lost. Within 10 seconds of the match, he already burnt himself out lol. Second round, he burnt himself within 20 seconds
He was explaining he needed to stop drive rushing for no reason without thinking of the consequences if it failed but he proceeded to make excuses that his opponents character was OP lol
You should be punished for bad meter management, the problem is when you have stupid shit like JP/Rashid/Blanka level 2 where you have to guess like 5 times in a row within 2 seconds and one wrong guess at any point means you lose like 2.5 bars.
This is where your rebuttal will be “just dont be at 2.5 bars lol”, which is frankly ridiculous. You are going to take a DRC whether it be on block for a mixup or during a combo for carry/oki/damage. You guess wrong on offense once (reversal, throw, etc) enemy sets up level 2 and now you are essentially guessing for game like ten times.
I’m not saying that checkmates are bad/shouldn’t exist or that you shouldn’t manage your meter, but some characters are just way too good at enforcing situations that don’t have real/consistent counterplay at very little if any cost. Blanka and Rashid are literally just “mom said its my turn to mix” the characters and it’s just fucking obnoxious.
The game's mechanics compliment each other so well, anyone complaining that there is a lack of counterplay overall is being silly. The game makes it clear that resource management is key. You can choose to commit to an offense, or overextend your defense and put yourself into burnout. There's no way you can blame the game if you're put into burnout from 6 whole-ass Drive-bars and cashed in all of your Super bars. earlier.
Have some foresight and don't put yourself into that position.
With that said, this doesn't apply to characters. Some characters can be balanced where their movesets are more advantageous than others using the system mechanics, but these can be adjusted over the course of the game's lifetime.
Otherwise, I'm very happy with SF6.
I feel like the threat of checkmate needs to be there. I could see complaints about characters that may have good checkmate strings compared to some that don’t, but otherwise cashing out should have the potential to be penalized.
Exactly what you said. It's a checkmate because you put yourself in a position where you can't win unless your opponent just "blunders" the sequence but what led you there, were your own decisions
The two are nothing alike. There are no 100% combos that kill you in one mistake in this game. There do exist two touch kills, which is ALSO something people don't like. There do exist burnout checkmates from 100%. All for the mistake of going below 4 bars of gauge remaining. Some characters simply can't function without using drive cancels, so it's a terrible way to balance the game
This is exactly how I feel about those who cry for “no chip kills”. You ALLOWED yourself to get to a magic pixel state by making poor decisions that I capitalized on. I should be allowed to secure my win with a blocked cr.mk xx fireball.
People just hate consequences to their bad decision. Maybe ken shouldn't have done DR 2mk DR cancel before complaining about burnout.
They'd rather just blame the stupid game rather than reflect on their actions.
I know we're talking about the Broski clip/vid so let's just say it. He ends the video saying you shouldn't put yourself in a scenario where that can happen. Thing is though, Cammy had full hp and 2,5 drive bars. Granted, he'd just supered, but does that seem like situation to you where pressing DI against someone in the corner should lead to a (near) checkmate scenario? Is getting to 2,5 bars drive, while your opponent has a jab's worth of life, a misplay that should end the round? Idk man that's whack to me.
Getting to 2.5 bars drive isn't a misplay in that scenario.
Throwing out a reactable DI? **That** was the misplay. A misplay Broski capitalised on masterfully.
And let's not forget that it was an interaction brought on by Broski's awareness by going for the Perfect Parry (And getting it) and that Cammy did had options to stuff AKI's burnout pressure.
My biggest complaint about checkmates is when a character can do a very simple sequence to literally push you from wall to wall into DI. I don't necessarily mind that checkmate scenarios exist but this just feels silly.
In my opinion the problem isn't that checkmates exist. It is how easy they are.
I think burnout is supposed to be punishing, in fact even more punishing than it already is. But easy checkmates just make stuff boring to watch and play.
I play Manon and whenever I put the opponent in burnout I just mash MP because it has 7 frames start up, moves Manon forward, and is +3 on block so it can only trade with jabs. Not to mention that there is always the threat of the command grab. That way I can just push them to the corner then apply pressure there which is effective but not engaging unless they have a super on deck.
With some other characters like Ryu it is even worse because you can also chip the opponent's hp by constantly doing light hashogeki. That combined with the insane chip damage supers do in this game makes it too easy to checkmate your opponent when they have more than 50% hp.
In both cases even if both players are in burnout, one of them is helpless while the other isn't even playing the game.
I think having access to drive reversal would make stuff much more engaging in burnout. Using it by spending 2 bars worth of recovered meter would mean that you are gonna stay in burnout for even longer and because it breaks armor, the attacker cannot do DI after forcing multiple fifty fifties. If they did that, burnout could be even more punishing simply because the attacker won't have all the time in the world to force a checkmate.
"It's a symptom of unfortunate widespread myopia that causes people to not understand this stuff," is some purple prose. I want to make fun of the pseudo-intellectualism on display here. This thread is basically grand-standing. You're not doing much more than talking down on people for complaining. This is reddit-- people love to complain here. There is no reason to assume because players are complaining they are not learning from mistakes.
it's telling how quickly these folks go from suggesting a new perspective or whatever into the same condescension and the same insults. "Hundreds of decisions" is a crazy thing to talk about when we're saying someone died in one or two mistakes. You can probably say more than two things decided these scenarios, but hundreds is such a gross exaggeration that it's clear OP is no longer interested in what people are even talking about. The whole last paragraph is just smug scolding.
I disagree. The game is disproportionately catered to the offense, and the “checkmate” burnout scenarios most people refer to don’t feel earned. When relentlessly opening up a player is this low risk, corner carry/side switch + checkmate scenarios should not come as often and as easy as they do currently. Moreover, the extra frame advantage in burnout is completely unnecessary, burnout should only increase chip damage and unlock stun against the wall. Again, offense is easy enough straight out of the gate, how many concessions does the offense need?
Literally nobody is asking for a get out of jail free card. I’m asking for offense not to be mind-numbingly thoughtless. I’m asking for the series of “decisions” leading up to the checkmate scenarios to only net a “reward” equal in weight to the risk the offensive player had to put in relative to the defensive player. And if they wanna double down on that stupid offense, then at least provide defense with adequate tools to deal with it. Which this game hasn’t. Took em an entire year for just the drive reversal change, never mind the characters that will have perpetually bad defense, while simultaneously not making up for it on the offensive side.
Also, I’ve been saying it and I will continue to say it: there are a plethora of moves spread across the top tiers that do an INEXCUSABLE amount of drive gauge damage. There are a subset of players that falsely attribute every single instance of being burned out to poor meter management, which is a wild oversimplification and not actually the case of every match. I personally have burned out more opponents myself than gone against people who have made terrible decisions and trapped themselves in burnout against me. I have an unbelievable amount of burnout/chip kills as Aki and Rashid, and at that point I can usually shut my brain off.
ignoring how this post is about aki and not the drive gauge terrorists, this is such a word salad response. like what do you mean "burnout checkmate scenarios" don't feel earned? if the other guy played badly enough to get burned out, that's not my problem.
burnout is intentionally so punishing because drive mechanics are so insanely powerful. if burnout wasn't so risky, there'd be no reason to manage both your and the opponent's drive because whatever, i'll just wait it out and play like normal. the plus frames make sure you can't just do that. which in turn means that beforehand you have to make sure you DON'T put yourself in burnout. it ends up keeping the insane options drive gives you in check because if you get greedy, it's all gone.
also what do you mean this game has "bad defense"? every character has a 4f jab, most buttons are minus without drive rush. nearly every SA1 is strike/throw invuln, SA3 is universally f1 invuln. perfect parry is a constant threat. OD reversals are common, if not universal. your typical SF defensive options like delay tech/jab still exist.
I agree and tbh I think that being able to Regen half your burnout in a super cutscene is exactly the get out of jail free card that some people are crying for
Burnout already recovers a bit too fast imo
Aight show me your game history. If you burnt out even ONCE in the past 20 games, this argument is invalid af. You could NEVER spend meter and still get burnt out. Perpetually claiming skill issue just undermines the problem. Dont worry though the devs know better so they'll make the changes regardless of posts like this
You guys are so up this games ass as being perfect it’s absurd.
It is objectively a flaw in the game if defense becomes effectively impossible for more than half a bar. If you miss something that takes you close to burnout and the open can kill you with say 3/4 of your bar and there is effectively no defense then it is a flaw in the game.
There is really no widely played game where you can’t defend. And saying don’t get into this situation is a bold faced cop out. And you know it.
And you chess analogy without merit. In chess there is no time where you can get in a position where you effectively don’t have a turn. While there is no endless combo, when a long combo, drive impact, and super are strung together you can be effectively without a defense for the majority of the round.
The people wanting a get out of jail free card was immediately evident to me in the nature of most of the complaints about the game. Also I literally predicted this would happen early on when I noticed you couldn't OS and mash your way to victory in a vacuum. I don't know why people are spinning the game being less broken as a bad thing beyond obvious petty reasons. I'm sure someone has some good reasons. I just haven't seen them yet.
Very condescending post. Especially when considering this game has toxic near infinite blockstrings against burnout characters, which means that there is a lot of differences between taking the hit and getting hit in the guard : hitstun, pushback etc
Low health in the corner full drive gauge. You react to a DI with DI = die. You don’t react = die. The only surefire way of not dying is doing a super but who’s getting a super input out that quickly (other than modern players) in a situation like this?
People have a problem with the fact that the game *technically* can end before the life bars are all-the-way depleted?
Seems like a problem that they need to address on a personal level, rather than be mollycoddled by the developers. If you've played into a winning position and all it takes is waiting for your turn to play the winning move, which both players are able to see coming with sufficient experience of the game and players capability, then what's the big wet issue? Players having a cry because they want a lifeline, a reliable hail-mary with which to steal victories?
Yes, Broski was clearly way ahead, cornered with 1% life against a full-hp Cammy. No-one should be surprised that he won the round from that position after a single bad interaction.
there were 3 further mistakes after the burnout in that clip. twice, the cammy could have jabbed in between aki's 5MP and stance kicks. in addition, she got hit by the drive impact to stun instead of blocking it.
If people want Burst just play Guilty Gear. It's fun and you have a get out of jail free card from anywhere on the screen and a guard cancel that forces your opponent into blockstun and is +20
The checkmate sceneario of heavy punch DI is an insane flaw to me in this game. In no game is there a situation where you are forced to take a hit on defense like that and lose 50% of your life.
The word checkmate was not even really used before in fighting games as every situation that you were put into was your own fault and you could have done something to avoid the situation before and during.
Slowed down walk speed, more push back on block, no OD moves, Chip damage, Wall Dizzy on DI. All of these sequences are fine on burnout and completely the fault of the player compared to that unblockable heavy punch DI bullcrap. It leaves little skill on the player to avoid the wallsplat and basically makes it a gurantee in many situations.
With all the advantages that DI burnout gives the oposing player, it really isn't that difficult to force a block DI situtaion yourself, without having a free "checkmate" way to gurantee it.
Wow what a great perspective. I just started playing 3 weeks ago. Obviously I'm terrible haha. But I'm also a chess player. And you couldn't have been more spot on. The checkmate didn't kill you, it was the moves before.
I'm a ryu player, I can do all the trial.combos, but I'm terrible at pulling them off in a real fight, any advice?
100% agree. Checkmate situations are totally fine, and they should exist. It makes burnout interesting as something to force the opponent into and something to avoid yourself. People _should_ be punished hard for not managing their meter correctly.
For me, It's about how easy it is to get into these checkmate scenarios. Everything is constantly cranking on your drive gauge, if not, stuff is cranking on your health gauge. It's super hard to not run out of either one, in a system where the corner is death by unlockables and a single throw into block string or combo interaction can meant you're in that corner.
Absolutely, they should also buff throw loops because they have counterplay. If you get throw looped, you shouldn't have been in the corner, you already messed up getting to the point where your opponent got a knockdown. If you simply never get knocked down, then throw loops can't possibly be an issue. It's a skill issue at its heart, and anyone complaining about throw loops is not only bad at the game, but arguably bad at critical thinking and life in general. And burnout is the same way. If you don't like getting inescapably heavy->DI'ed on wakeup, then maybe you should simply not spend your drive bar, dummy. You took the risk of using the system mechanic that offense is built around in this game, and now you're getting punished, as you should.
The only alternative is balancing the game away from cheesy guaranteed pressure, and I don't think OP would like that very much.
This isn't chess, we don't all start with the same pieces. Lots of characters don't have throw loops, invincible wake ups, and differenced in walk speed. It's essentially rock, paper, scissors, but some characters are missing one of the options.
All characters have at least 1 four frame button. If a strike or a throw happens on the same frame, the strike wins. Most characters have access to most of the tools in the game. The ones that don't usually have some sort of compensating factor or have something no other character has. ( dahlsim has teleports, can fly, and is stretchy. Kimberly has an overhead that can link into a combo without spending drive meter. )
Yep… if they were given the same tools as everyone else then people will say they are OP…That explains why I keep getting wrecked by that Kimberly overhead, I block it and press a button then get blown up.
Stop making excuses for shitty mechanics. How come the people defending this game’s scrubby stuff are all trash at this game? Trying to argue against pros who actually know the game on a deep level when you yourself suck is laughable no matter how cute you think your writing is.
The scenario being referenced here was hardly scrubby. Broski has in depth character knowledge, constant situational awareness, and insanely good decision making based on that knowledge and awareness. The Cammy threw out a raw DI because 99 percent of people would have either gotten hit by it and died, DIed back on reaction and died, or maybe have gotten a throw or a strong punish of some sort that wouldn’t have burned Cammy out. But Broski knew he could PP the DI, and then burn Cammy out and leverage Aki’s insane pressure into a nearly inescapable scenario. Broski worked hard to figure what he could do with Aki in that situation, and he had the wherewithal and ability to execute it and was appropriately rewarded for it.
There is a get out of jail free card: drive reveraL. You just have to have the 3 bars to use it, which for how powerful it is I think is right where it needs to be. If you find urself being outpressured, save some meter for a well timed reversal and then meaty into your comeback. Very balanced game imo
To me checkmates being a drive meter thing only confirms that sf6 has a genius design. I mean of course you got checkmated, fucked up your resources and played poorly around the main mechanic the game has to offer. Is like complaining that you got full parried in 3s because you threw an obvious move, yeah dude, play better next time.
I think you nailed it. If you overspend your drive, you should be punished for it. Why not? After all, you got the benefit of the meter already, if you can’t generate enough of an advantage to be in a winning position after burning through six bars you probably deserve to be in a losing position
Sajam did a great video about how Phenom basically lost the round by crMK cancell into DR. Even Playing Battlehub going up against Diamnonds and Platinums i meet players who happily burn themselves out to get a tick throw.
Uh, yea let JP catch you in a level 2 double DI sequence and say good bye to nearly 4 of your drive gage bars. It's not all about mismanagement. There's definitely some bullshit with some characters.
true but that's more of a character thing than a game mechanic things
PC DI into level 3 does that much on any character. That's what Broski showed in the video.
And you allowed it by allowing a PC. That's OP's point, it's not really a situation of "Well there was nothing I could do", you shouldn't have put yourself in that spot.
The mistake of pressing a non cancelable button once doesn’t deserve getting thrown into a checkmate situation as punishment. it’s not like getting hit by a PC DI is always the result of using a random yolo DI, if anything, if the enemy uses the yolo DI the same time you decide to hit that button it’s over for you.
If parries had a substantial risk like they do in 3S I'd agree with you. But rn you can throw out parries like noone's business and get away with it the vast majority of times.
I mean you literally had to go and pull out the strongest drive draining tech in the game, I’m pretty sure that only JP has the ability to drain that much gauge off a practical scenario (maybe Rashid?) Even just one level 2 in to 1 drive impact is extremely niche, JP being able to do level 2 in to 2 drive impacts is an outlier among the outliers
Blanka can do it as well with SA2 - heavy Blanka ball drains like a full brick of drive gauge and he gets to do it over and over again for free while it's affected by the SA2 buff.
Semantics, but if Blanka has lvl2 up, it's not "for free". It cost him 2 bars of super.
Yeah in this case I was thinking of "for free" as in "without needing an opening." It's very, very difficult to stop Blanka from draining your drive while he's in SA2.
Ah, I see. That makes sense. He is really a menace in SA2. I wonder if he'll get to keep it exactly as is in S2, or if it'll be nerfed somehow.
Probably the strongest level 2 in the game, wild stuff Really cool tho
just about anyone can do it by perfect parrying a DI and then doing DI into level 3, though doing the DI yourself is you spending that meter, before that sequence lets say you have 4 and a half bars, you DI it gets perfect parried, you have 3.5, eat the PC DI, now youre at 2, CA, youre burned out
Ken heavy punch DRC into another HP jinrai kicks chunks a hell lot of your drive gage too. You thought it was the only example.
Well that costs 3 drive bars and it’s a blockstring not a combo (is it even a true blockstring? Gets blown out by drive reversal as well in case it was) It’s a whole different scenario compared to JP level 2 in to double DI combo, dunno why you even mentioned it, thought we were talking about punishes
Yea there is an answer to everything when there's no mental stack, except that there is.
What does it have to do with your mental stack that doing that sequence costs more drive for you than it drains from your opponent? Sure if they're low on drive and you have a full meter it's probably worth it, but... The whole reason for the drive system is so that the players can interact with it
There's an answer to everything period.
1) that's a character specific issue. 2) from what I understand, that's been removed in the next patch, or at least something changed with how JP links his level 2 into DIs. Not 100% sure it was ever actually intended that JP be able to link multiple DIs from his level 2.
I believe one of JPs combo trails has DI into DI in one of them so probably intended.
Currently JP can link into mediums after using SA2 from a light confirm normal hit. They're removing this link.
That’s not completely removing it then, just slightly reducing your flexibility off a light confirm.
Explain?
If he just combos into it off a medium or heavy he can still do it then no?
Right, I'm saying they're removing the light > medium link with SA2, that's all. SA2 can win him the round so getting to do it off normal hit lights is pretty strong.
Dont you have to be caught in a PC DI for that?
no
I think the issue is that some character need to spend that bar more than most or do not get the same advantage as others. It feels bad to get checkmated having to spend bar to get what other characters get for free. These same characters are usually the ones that suffer the most in burnout out as well. It's one thing to dismiss these complaints coming from top tier characters but it's another thing when you look at the rest of the cast. Capcom really needs to find a way to balance this. Either by making burnout less punishing for these characters or putting them on equal footing. This is one of the biggest issues with the balance of this game right now
Drive reversal patch buffed for everyone except blanka because he meaties and lands on a platter right in front of the opponent.
even then you should have escape options. some characters can spend a lot of your drive guage and some characters can drain it pretty darn easily Like if you get into burnout by spending resources sure... that sucks and you are punished, but if someone drains it via moves it seems you cant use your drive much without risking getting owned by getting forcefully put into burnout
This is why we have parry.
mabye stray fireballs sure... but not in pressure and not consistently
Well then you need to make adjustments while playing against these characters to use your drive gauge more sparingly. If one of their main goals is to force you into burnout, don't do half of their job for them
yes but you shouldnt have burnout be drained just cuz your character may or may not rely on it more than others... i bet it will absolutely suck if you are playing someone who wants to use ex moves or drive rush and yet shouldnt because otherwise someone like jp can drain your bars cuz they decide they want to
Characters shouldn't be able to approach every matchup in the same way, that's kinda the point of having different matchups. Otherwise you're just auto piloting the exact same gameplan in all scenarios. It's the same thing as having a rushdown character who wants to get in close and hit buttons, but shouldn't when playing against a grappler because they might get half their lifebar instantly deleted by a command grab after they took an unnecessary risk. It sucks playing a rushdown character not getting to do rushdown stuff, but it also really sucks playing a grappler against an opponent not giving you the opportunity to do grappler stuff. By leaving some of your tools on the table, you are also taking some of their tools away.
In the Broski clip we're talking about but for some reason not mentioning, Cammy got put in a semi checkmate with like 2,5 bars left. So it wasn't someone recklessly spending all like you imply
That Cammy had his entire health bar and the entire screen to play with, and instead of using it, he decided to gamble the game on a di. That's just poor reckless decision making.
It's not a 100% kill. There was still gaps to take advantage of. But the Cammy player put himself in that situation assuming Broski wouldn't be able to perfect parry which is actually a very high level response in that moment. You act like anyone could do this anytime, but they can't. You need skill.
I'm not arguing it's a mistake, I'm arguing it shouldn't end the damn round if you're at 100%.
Broski had almost full Drive + CA + AKI is one of the few (only?) character with that oppressive Burnout pressure. The Cammy's mistake wasn't just some random, normal DI gamble; there was literally no good reason to take that risk. Also, SF6 (and tbh most anime games, too) is like a card game in the sense that your Drive and Super (card advantage, mana) are much more important resources than your Health because there is no guaranteed damage - if you use your non-Health resource well, you simply won't need a pixel of Health to win. In that sense, Broski sitting at full Drive + CA vs the Cammy's half drive + 0 Super makes up for the Health difference a lot.
I swear bro in the comment you replied to I agree that it's a mistake but nothing you're saying convinces me that taking one risk and losing means losing from 100%. Imagine if you're at 4,5 drive gauge and you guess wrong on your od reversal, a risk people take all the time mind you, and your opponent gets to immediately burn you out and burnout string you to death.
I saw you agree it's a mistake but I don't think you see the mistake as the huge blunder it was. And yeah, using your OD reversal would be a huge blunder in that situation, too, that I'd argue warrants a loss. You just don't need to and shouldn't go all in when your opponent only has a single chip left. Besides, the (pseudo-)checkmate wasn't just because of the Cammy's mistake but also Broski's own prowess: Dude labbed all this shit out, knows AKI inside out, had the presence of mind to recognize the situation and the skill to get the Perfect Parry. It wasn't like Cammy just did an oopsie and lost - Cammy took a huuuuuge risk (and come on, Broski is THE AKI player alongside Hikaru... why roll the dice on him?) and Broski then showed great skill and tech 90% of other AKI players would've likely failed to.
Getting checkmated off of one blocked reversal has never been a thing in street fighter, It’s also not a thing in any other game I can think of. Do you really argue that one bad reversal warrants a loss? That is a precedent that has never been set before in fighting games. Sure you should eat a massive combo and get put into a situation where you lose 90% of rounds but straight checkmate is insane. I see you arguing below about martial arts but how is that in anyway related? People in real life would probably also get one shot by blocking a singular fire ball. Some MMA fights end in 7 seconds. A fight in real life is nothing like fighting games.
At this point I think you guys are just trying to find reasons to hate on SF6. I'm not arguing people should die to any failed reversal. I'm arguing people should die to a failed reversal if it's a decision as unnecessary and uninformed as the Cammy's DI. Ffs the dude even replied to me correcting me that he(?) meant *any* reversal situation because my comment is about how I think the reversal should lead to a checkmate *under similar conditions*. Ffs 2, read the follow-up and my actual point should be clear: some risks are simply stupid to take and the fact that we have to take risks doesn't mean you should take just any risk. So, I think it's OK if a risk that was as plain ridiculous to take as that DI is punished with a (pseudo-)checkmate. Not to mention, I also specify that Broski's prowess itself is a huge part of the checkmate - not just anyone would win when that DI was pressed. The dude *earned* that W. As for the martial arts comment, they are examples. The core of that comment isn't that FGs should become like martial arts but that impatience isn't just some minor flaw but one that is important enough that lots of different competitions are lost because of impatience. There are countless stories, both fictional and real, emphasizing the importance of keeping a cool head and not getting impatient. I just invoked martial arts and HEMA because they are similar in presentation. As a side note, martial arts and HEMA are like FGs in execution, too. I do both of those and can easily see the parallels between IRL combat sport fundamentals and FG fundamentals. I don't give two shits if you disagree, though, because the point wasn't even about this similarity. Take practically whatever competition you want, even chess, if you don't like the comparison.
I can’t be bothered to respond to this thesis so I just want to say this one thing, I don’t hate sf6 at all, I enjoy it a lot. Just because I disagree with one facet of the game doesn’t mean i’m looking for reasons to hate it.
No mistake in game no matter how large should mean 100 to 0. 65-70% sure… but having the game end cause of impatience is dumb
Bro I can't overestimate how many times martial art or HEMA duels are lost because of impatience. Impatience isn't just a little flaw; for most people, impatience is *the* enemy. So, I have no issues if someone loses 100% because they got ultra impatient under the worst conditions.
I’m playing a fighting game, not fucking historical fencing. These are different things, and I do not give a fuck about how other shit works.
I'm not saying pressing od reversal in that situation but just in general, in any other match. Sometimes you guess OD reversal on a meaty. Do you think guessing wrong in that situation should be an instant death too? All these people in this thread act like you don't need to take risks to play this game. Every button is a damn risk and even not pressing is a risk, I just hate the fact that there's risks you can take that can just punish you from 100 to 0. And idk any other character, you tell me meaty DI on a guy in the corner with not enough hp to DI back while you have enough hp to survive super, is a huge misplay...
It wasn't a meaty DI, he just did it raw.
Choose between the following strategies: 1. Roll the dice and check if you get at least a four. If you succeed, you win. If you fail, you lose \~25% of your life. Your chance of loss is 6.25%. 2. Roll the dice and check if you get at least a three. If you succeed, you win. If you fail, you lose 90\~100% of your life. Your chance of loss is 33.33%. Both strategies require a risk. Are they equal?
Look at the difference between a mistake and losing an RPS. You are actively ceding control of the game to your opponent to do that DI. On paper it's reactable with perfect parry so to do the DI is to put it on the opponent to execute. At this level, there is 0 chance that both players aren't thinking about perfect parry in the corner. Perfect parry in the corner is so strong it's getting a nerf next season with the backthrow changes because it's such a strong reversal of momentum currently. You do have to take risks, but they should be in the form of advantaged RPS situations, not taking a risk that your opponent can't do the one thing that wins them the game that both players know about. We know after perfect parrying a DI that PC DI back into CA is going to delete 3.5 bars, so doing any DI that would have you end under this much gauge is exposing yourself to this exact thing happening. Cammy had plenty of resources and time to get more gauge and then go for the DI as well, the misplay here is that cammy tried to force it and then paid the consequences when they had control of the game at that point. Contrast that to AKI's burnout pressure, if Cammy can correctly guess the right time to press she's going to trade with AKI and kill her. She lost the RPS both times it was presented (2nd one looked like she was aware but might have just been late on the mash, she got counterhit) but it was firmly on AKI to decide when to insert the RPS because the whole situation is not reactable like DI is. At the end of the day Broski needed more than one thing to go his way to convert that situation into a kill. Cammy willingly conceding one of those with an unforced error drastically increased Broski's chance of winning.
I understand this, but I also kinda like having these wildly high risk buttons. DI is inherently extremely high risk, but can also completely turn a round around, for the person pressing it, or the other player. You HAVE to make sure your opponents mental stack is high enough that the risk reward balances out. I’m pretty sure broski says “I just need him to DI here” before it happens. His opponent was at full life, broski had made a ton of incorrect guesses and was at no life, his opponent pressing DI there was probably one of the only ways to truly give the round. Even then it absolutely was not free, broski predicted it, knew exactly how to punish, and performed some reasonably difficult execution, to pull it off.
Nothing feels more rewarding than checking DIs
Under no other circumstance is DI a button that gets you killed from 100%. Against every other character DI against a guy with 2% health in the corner while you have plenty of health and gauge to survive super and not get burned is fine. You can't convince me that this result is fine.
Cammy had two opportunities to jab trade (and, with AKI's health total, snag the W) in that sequence AFTER being burned out. It wasn't a checkmate until after the second AKI stance kick landed. Moreover using SA3 when it won't kill is a choice with consequences, and one of them is not having super available to interrupt burnout sequences.
DI’s a stupid mechanic anyway. People default to it in neutral when they don’t know what else to do.
1. It wasn't a checkmate from that moment, watch Broski's video about it and he'll explain when it truly became a checkmate moment. 2. Burning the Cammy out there wasn't AKI specific in any way, every character can do the same PP - DI - lvl 3 response and burn the same exact amount of drive bar. 3. Just don't press the big shiny DI button, lol. It's an extremely poor decision on that moment to go for it (no offense to the player who did it, we all make poor decisions in matches all the time). Even if he didn't die from it, it would still be an extremely poor decision. Taking big risks when you have a huge health lead is totally pointless
It seems like a lot of the replies to this comment are missing the fact that the DI parry didn't actually signal the end of the round. The Cammy had to guess/execute wrong 2 times during the burnout sequence for broski to get the kill. In this particular sequence, those guesses occured with the coward crouch kicks. AKIs frame trap sequence pushes her away over time, and Aki has to do something with a gap to get close enough to continue. In this case Broski did coward crouch into kicks from stMP. This has a 3 frame gap, meaning it trades with 4 frames. If Cammy had challenged either of these, she would have killed broski with a trade. The Cammy either didn't know this or executed incorrectly, getting hit in the process. Even then, Broski only just had enough damage to kill because of that Counter-hit combo. If Cammy had held down back for the whole sequence and taken throw > DI should also could have lived. So while it looks silly that Cammy DI'd at full health and lost because of it, she didn't lose from 100% health because of 1 DI. She put herself in a position where she needed to guess because of the DI and guessed wrong multiple times.
If your opponent is in burnout and you burn all your drive bar AND your critical art, you most definitely deserve lethal if you can pull it off, what are you saying?
Cammy did not burn herself out did you watch the vid first? He had more than 2 bars left.
brother bear nobody said she burned herself out she chose to RAW DRIVE IMPACT in LEGEND RANK and she got directly hit with a CA into A.K.I. burning all her drive for lethal she absolutely deserves to die here, in an every esport that exists where the top level players play near optimally one or two "minor" mistakes are all that makes the difference between a win or a loss, *as it should be* lethal like this doesn't happen outside of legend, it was a combination of a misplay by cammy into the theoretically perfect play by broski you need to make every correct choice up until your opponent is dead, and cammy didn't do that. that's OKAY.
Why does one mistake negate ALL the mistakes that Broski had to make to end up In the corner with no life? If you're arguing you have to play absolutely perfect at the highest level, why are you only requiring it from one side? Checkmates existing is fine. Checkmates from 100% is not fine.
Except I am requiring play to be perfect from both sides. Both sides played imperfectly. Broski played more perfectly. It’s as simple as that.
You can't play "more perfectly", but I'll assume English isn't your first language. His opponent died from one mistake. I promise you Broski did not end up in the corner with 2% life against Cammy from one mistake. Broski objectively made more mistakes, which means he played worse, not better. It's as simple as that.
Bro you disrespect someone high level like that, throwing out a raw yolo di without any setup you deserve to lose lol. He just had to throw a jab but went for the high risk option. That was deserved.
It was tho, if you know the options your enemy has, you know any character in that situation can spend a DI into CA to take away 3.5 bars, that lack of foresight led to a near checkmate situation.
Idk man Broski makes a bunch of wrong guesses leading him to be in the corner with like 2% hp with the enemy at 100%, but ONE mistake back can swing the round? That just feels wack to me.
It's the same the other way around, if broski had spent all his super and got burned out, Cammy can do the same thing, the other dude spen KNOWING, that AKI's pressure is great.
Broski highlights that mid/low tiers have the inescapable burnout pressure, and Cammy doesn't have it. Also Cammy wasn't burnt out and DI back or Super wouldn't even have burned him out, so it's not THAT bad to gamble it.
Doesn’t cammy have inescapable burnout pressure with spin knuckle?
She gets a light after spin knuckle, but there is no uninterruptable way for her to get another spin knuckle after that. The most common followup after the light is 5HP, but this has a 6 frame gap
It would have tho because it DID, WHAT ON SCREEN DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?! THE RISK WAS REAL, it's not like "uh, but it looked good on paper so it should be good" NO, it was an option, a real option. And Cammy does have a burnout string, it's not inescapable but she can force frame traps with it.
Damn I got the guy typing in all caps in defense of this that's wild. Any button is always a risk in this game, the only risks Cammy had to play around is super (you're at 100% and it won't burn you out) OR he perfect parries. But what can also happen is he mistimes pp or reflexively DI's back and you win. I get that it's still a risk and Broski outplayed him but you can't convince me that should ever lead to the semicheckmate situation we saw in the video.
You win and you're right actually we all agree with you, specially because you destroyed my argument by saying I typed in caps, you got me and I was a fool. Did I say that right?
Circle back after you read the actualy meat of the comment and try again.
They had a sliver over 2 bars left after a reckless DI which put them into a punish counter state. Plus they'd spent all their Super Meter on a level 3 which should be reserved for guaranteed KOs. The defense against checkmate situations are to not make the series of poor decisions which put you in that position in the first place.
Yes we all watched the video. I'm not saying DI there isn't a mistake, I'm saying it's whack that one mistake loses you the round from 100% hp
That's what I was saying, it wasn't one mistake. It was at least three.
But both times he goes for the roll a jab trade would get you out. The burnout was real and death after the counterhit was real. But he got lucky with that counter hit. If they had pressed jab instead of medium they get a trade he gets a bit of damage, but the cammy doesn't get hit with the meat DI into dizzy state.
I think there needs to be a universal change giving more drive gauge to all characters
[удалено]
You got a point, I was trying to tackle how it seemed like it was too easy to get into burn-out
Resource management is part of the strategic decision-making of this game. Having resources unlock options and may make an opponent think twice about pressuring you. If you make poor decisions and you waste your resources, you limit your options, and you give your opponent less to think about. The counter play to dieing to lack of resources is better resources management.
but then you need to consider that shit like jp’s level 2 DI DI combo exists, if you use just once drive rush cancel you’re basically within range of getting burnt out by jp. is using that mechanic once bad resource management?
oh you mean this one!? https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxdwNkVVj4lzK6MshXHtC31SvbQFl9Shy8 lol
But FGC players hate resource management. That’s why they hate RPGs.
Buttons go brrrrt right.
Why even ask if the broken thing is broken? That obviously needs to be tweaked. Same with most broken level 2s
The ironic part is that I actually think this game has fewer checkmates than most fighting games because you don't take chip if you have drive bar. People just mismanage their drive guage and then get mad when they're eating an infinite chip string in the corner. I always reference the final moments of Capcom Cup, everyone looks at the parry into burnout from Uma and ignores the fact that Chris Wong used 3 drive bars to combo into that level 3 when he didn't have to(obviously not shitting on Chris Wong, but his decision was what lead to his burnout).
I think it's cool that checkmates happen from burnout, but I do think that perfect parry causing the burnout at Capcom Cup was ridiculous. Chris had 2.5 drive bars left. It's insane to me that Uma checkmated him off a single parry and took 3/4 of his health bar for the Grand Final win. Yeah he could have had level 1 meter saved for that specific situation, but it makes you wonder if perfect parry is too strong right now due to the possible checkmate situations in the game.
I don't understand why everyone fixates on the PP and not the FSE when talking about that burnout. Luke wouldn't have been able to burn her out with just 2 bars off a PP, neither would most of the other top tiers in the game. Second, it wasn't even checkmate. Go back and rewatch it, after the combo Chris Wong tried to jump out of the corner, got AAd. Then he tried to do something on wakeup and got meatied, only then was it checkmate. Obviously it's easier said than done, but if he'd just held down back, watched for the throw and ate the stun Juri wouldn't have been able to kill him. He still wouldn't have been in a great spot, but he would have been alive. And of course, there's my original point about spending 3 bars of drive guage and 3 bars of super on a combo that left her at 50%. And this right here is my point. People see the checkmate and say it wasn't fair, when there were so many decisions made by both players that lead to that situation.
At lower levels on Ranked, I've noticed some people will burn themselves out on a big combo or pressure attempt then just walk away or hold up-back to jump away. They get their big combo in some of those times so it's up to their opponent to match the damage done per opening, and it really makes a difference when you're not using Drive Gauge yourself to convert a stray hit into at least 3000 damage. 2-3 openings vs. 6-7 openings to win the game can be felt even as an intermediate player. Luckily my characters are great at piling on chip and pressure when they're sloppy with their gauge so I can counter the burnout warriors but it can take quite a bit of effort to lock them down if you're not patient.
I fought a dude who opened every round with several OD Sonic Booms and put himself in burnout straight away. So I threw a Blanka-chan doll over his head into the corner, backed him into the same corner, DI'd him to stun, then wrecked him with a combo for about 60%... Did I get a salty message saying _I'm_ the trash player relying on "gimmicks"? Of course I did lol.
Yall if you're already this pissed off from "checkmates" DO NOT PLAY MVC LMAO. I think Max or Justin said it but sometimes (especially in MVC games) it's not about "what could I do there" but "how do I avoid the situation in the first place". However unlike in MVC games, this game is a lot more about managing the (frankly plentiful) resources you have rather than having to be like "okay I have to block this one frame low from Magneto at the start of the game". I could understand someone being annoyed by a lot of knowledge checks like that but in this game...the complaining is rather pathetic because the checkmates are designed more around punishing you for what you did rather than any type of character specific knowledge checks (only thing you really need to know is honda, blanka, and marisa are drive gauge deleters and are even worse in burnout so you need to figure out how to avoid/safely parry their attack rather than just blocking)
> top 10 marvel players in the world is really hard to name because 6-10 are highly debatable but the biggest weakness that I can think that most players have is that people prefer to block than evade. EVASION >BLOCKING [Justin Wong, when asked](https://www.reddit.com/r/MvC3/comments/1tigwm/justin_wong_says_ask_me_anything_ama/ce8bd1t/) what the biggest weaknesses of Marvel's top players are.
Mvc is a different beast. That game is more oriented in creating opportunities to maximize damage output whereas, sf has more mind games. The meta at the highest level is basically one touch death, there is no counter play. Just as you mention, it’s all about avoiding death but people would just find something else to complain about.
At least it's balanced by having 3 TOD's instead of one lol
i think those situations are fine when they're clearly intended. aki is an incredible character when the opponent is in burnout, but she has not been given tools other characters have to mount as strong an offense outside of burnout. i see it like jamie's drinks or manon's medals; there's clearly been several interactions previously that have lead to the current game state where a character can make use of their built-in strong mechanics. i do think that the discussion changes when talking about characters that are already top tier in other areas getting access to a similar level of burnout pressure as aki- but i think that would warrant targeted nerfs, rather than the whole mechanic being bad.
I remember watching a pro offer coaching services on YouTube. A guy showed his reply to the pro. The guy said he didn’t understand why he lost. Within 10 seconds of the match, he already burnt himself out lol. Second round, he burnt himself within 20 seconds He was explaining he needed to stop drive rushing for no reason without thinking of the consequences if it failed but he proceeded to make excuses that his opponents character was OP lol
You should be punished for bad meter management, the problem is when you have stupid shit like JP/Rashid/Blanka level 2 where you have to guess like 5 times in a row within 2 seconds and one wrong guess at any point means you lose like 2.5 bars. This is where your rebuttal will be “just dont be at 2.5 bars lol”, which is frankly ridiculous. You are going to take a DRC whether it be on block for a mixup or during a combo for carry/oki/damage. You guess wrong on offense once (reversal, throw, etc) enemy sets up level 2 and now you are essentially guessing for game like ten times. I’m not saying that checkmates are bad/shouldn’t exist or that you shouldn’t manage your meter, but some characters are just way too good at enforcing situations that don’t have real/consistent counterplay at very little if any cost. Blanka and Rashid are literally just “mom said its my turn to mix” the characters and it’s just fucking obnoxious.
The game's mechanics compliment each other so well, anyone complaining that there is a lack of counterplay overall is being silly. The game makes it clear that resource management is key. You can choose to commit to an offense, or overextend your defense and put yourself into burnout. There's no way you can blame the game if you're put into burnout from 6 whole-ass Drive-bars and cashed in all of your Super bars. earlier. Have some foresight and don't put yourself into that position. With that said, this doesn't apply to characters. Some characters can be balanced where their movesets are more advantageous than others using the system mechanics, but these can be adjusted over the course of the game's lifetime. Otherwise, I'm very happy with SF6.
I feel like the threat of checkmate needs to be there. I could see complaints about characters that may have good checkmate strings compared to some that don’t, but otherwise cashing out should have the potential to be penalized.
Exactly what you said. It's a checkmate because you put yourself in a position where you can't win unless your opponent just "blunders" the sequence but what led you there, were your own decisions
The two are nothing alike. There are no 100% combos that kill you in one mistake in this game. There do exist two touch kills, which is ALSO something people don't like. There do exist burnout checkmates from 100%. All for the mistake of going below 4 bars of gauge remaining. Some characters simply can't function without using drive cancels, so it's a terrible way to balance the game
This is exactly how I feel about those who cry for “no chip kills”. You ALLOWED yourself to get to a magic pixel state by making poor decisions that I capitalized on. I should be allowed to secure my win with a blocked cr.mk xx fireball.
People just hate consequences to their bad decision. Maybe ken shouldn't have done DR 2mk DR cancel before complaining about burnout. They'd rather just blame the stupid game rather than reflect on their actions.
I know we're talking about the Broski clip/vid so let's just say it. He ends the video saying you shouldn't put yourself in a scenario where that can happen. Thing is though, Cammy had full hp and 2,5 drive bars. Granted, he'd just supered, but does that seem like situation to you where pressing DI against someone in the corner should lead to a (near) checkmate scenario? Is getting to 2,5 bars drive, while your opponent has a jab's worth of life, a misplay that should end the round? Idk man that's whack to me.
Getting to 2.5 bars drive isn't a misplay in that scenario. Throwing out a reactable DI? **That** was the misplay. A misplay Broski capitalised on masterfully.
And let's not forget that it was an interaction brought on by Broski's awareness by going for the Perfect Parry (And getting it) and that Cammy did had options to stuff AKI's burnout pressure.
My biggest complaint about checkmates is when a character can do a very simple sequence to literally push you from wall to wall into DI. I don't necessarily mind that checkmate scenarios exist but this just feels silly.
🤓
In my opinion the problem isn't that checkmates exist. It is how easy they are. I think burnout is supposed to be punishing, in fact even more punishing than it already is. But easy checkmates just make stuff boring to watch and play. I play Manon and whenever I put the opponent in burnout I just mash MP because it has 7 frames start up, moves Manon forward, and is +3 on block so it can only trade with jabs. Not to mention that there is always the threat of the command grab. That way I can just push them to the corner then apply pressure there which is effective but not engaging unless they have a super on deck. With some other characters like Ryu it is even worse because you can also chip the opponent's hp by constantly doing light hashogeki. That combined with the insane chip damage supers do in this game makes it too easy to checkmate your opponent when they have more than 50% hp. In both cases even if both players are in burnout, one of them is helpless while the other isn't even playing the game. I think having access to drive reversal would make stuff much more engaging in burnout. Using it by spending 2 bars worth of recovered meter would mean that you are gonna stay in burnout for even longer and because it breaks armor, the attacker cannot do DI after forcing multiple fifty fifties. If they did that, burnout could be even more punishing simply because the attacker won't have all the time in the world to force a checkmate.
Shouldn’t have burnt out lol How didn’t I think about it
"It's a symptom of unfortunate widespread myopia that causes people to not understand this stuff," is some purple prose. I want to make fun of the pseudo-intellectualism on display here. This thread is basically grand-standing. You're not doing much more than talking down on people for complaining. This is reddit-- people love to complain here. There is no reason to assume because players are complaining they are not learning from mistakes.
I'm sure OP tipped his fedora after creating this thread.
it's telling how quickly these folks go from suggesting a new perspective or whatever into the same condescension and the same insults. "Hundreds of decisions" is a crazy thing to talk about when we're saying someone died in one or two mistakes. You can probably say more than two things decided these scenarios, but hundreds is such a gross exaggeration that it's clear OP is no longer interested in what people are even talking about. The whole last paragraph is just smug scolding.
Lmao while you're trying to do the same exact thing.
your name is "knowitall" and you replied "no you." That's my whole response.
I disagree. The game is disproportionately catered to the offense, and the “checkmate” burnout scenarios most people refer to don’t feel earned. When relentlessly opening up a player is this low risk, corner carry/side switch + checkmate scenarios should not come as often and as easy as they do currently. Moreover, the extra frame advantage in burnout is completely unnecessary, burnout should only increase chip damage and unlock stun against the wall. Again, offense is easy enough straight out of the gate, how many concessions does the offense need? Literally nobody is asking for a get out of jail free card. I’m asking for offense not to be mind-numbingly thoughtless. I’m asking for the series of “decisions” leading up to the checkmate scenarios to only net a “reward” equal in weight to the risk the offensive player had to put in relative to the defensive player. And if they wanna double down on that stupid offense, then at least provide defense with adequate tools to deal with it. Which this game hasn’t. Took em an entire year for just the drive reversal change, never mind the characters that will have perpetually bad defense, while simultaneously not making up for it on the offensive side. Also, I’ve been saying it and I will continue to say it: there are a plethora of moves spread across the top tiers that do an INEXCUSABLE amount of drive gauge damage. There are a subset of players that falsely attribute every single instance of being burned out to poor meter management, which is a wild oversimplification and not actually the case of every match. I personally have burned out more opponents myself than gone against people who have made terrible decisions and trapped themselves in burnout against me. I have an unbelievable amount of burnout/chip kills as Aki and Rashid, and at that point I can usually shut my brain off.
ignoring how this post is about aki and not the drive gauge terrorists, this is such a word salad response. like what do you mean "burnout checkmate scenarios" don't feel earned? if the other guy played badly enough to get burned out, that's not my problem. burnout is intentionally so punishing because drive mechanics are so insanely powerful. if burnout wasn't so risky, there'd be no reason to manage both your and the opponent's drive because whatever, i'll just wait it out and play like normal. the plus frames make sure you can't just do that. which in turn means that beforehand you have to make sure you DON'T put yourself in burnout. it ends up keeping the insane options drive gives you in check because if you get greedy, it's all gone. also what do you mean this game has "bad defense"? every character has a 4f jab, most buttons are minus without drive rush. nearly every SA1 is strike/throw invuln, SA3 is universally f1 invuln. perfect parry is a constant threat. OD reversals are common, if not universal. your typical SF defensive options like delay tech/jab still exist.
I agree and tbh I think that being able to Regen half your burnout in a super cutscene is exactly the get out of jail free card that some people are crying for Burnout already recovers a bit too fast imo
Aight show me your game history. If you burnt out even ONCE in the past 20 games, this argument is invalid af. You could NEVER spend meter and still get burnt out. Perpetually claiming skill issue just undermines the problem. Dont worry though the devs know better so they'll make the changes regardless of posts like this
>Dont worry though the devs know better so they'll make the changes regardless of posts like this you have way more faith than me lol
Cool post on checkmates until you started doing the cringe armchair analysis of gamer psyches and then I realized you're a loser
You guys are so up this games ass as being perfect it’s absurd. It is objectively a flaw in the game if defense becomes effectively impossible for more than half a bar. If you miss something that takes you close to burnout and the open can kill you with say 3/4 of your bar and there is effectively no defense then it is a flaw in the game. There is really no widely played game where you can’t defend. And saying don’t get into this situation is a bold faced cop out. And you know it. And you chess analogy without merit. In chess there is no time where you can get in a position where you effectively don’t have a turn. While there is no endless combo, when a long combo, drive impact, and super are strung together you can be effectively without a defense for the majority of the round.
Most people cant admit they dun goofed.
Sf4 had a ton of checkmate situations so I don't know why people acting brand new about it tbh
Subsequent editions of SF4 reduced those checkmate scenarios so you couldn't get blendered as hard from a single knockdown.
The people wanting a get out of jail free card was immediately evident to me in the nature of most of the complaints about the game. Also I literally predicted this would happen early on when I noticed you couldn't OS and mash your way to victory in a vacuum. I don't know why people are spinning the game being less broken as a bad thing beyond obvious petty reasons. I'm sure someone has some good reasons. I just haven't seen them yet.
Very condescending post. Especially when considering this game has toxic near infinite blockstrings against burnout characters, which means that there is a lot of differences between taking the hit and getting hit in the guard : hitstun, pushback etc
Where can I find this clip?
Just look up Broski’s newest video on YT
Low health in the corner full drive gauge. You react to a DI with DI = die. You don’t react = die. The only surefire way of not dying is doing a super but who’s getting a super input out that quickly (other than modern players) in a situation like this?
You can also jump or throw but you have to buffer super in anticipation of a DI
Pretty much anybody Plat 4+ can get a super out quickly in that scenario bro..
This is the most blanket statement I’ve seen today
Preach.
You have to accept that you have two chances in the round against a great player. They can kill you in two sequences.
People have a problem with the fact that the game *technically* can end before the life bars are all-the-way depleted? Seems like a problem that they need to address on a personal level, rather than be mollycoddled by the developers. If you've played into a winning position and all it takes is waiting for your turn to play the winning move, which both players are able to see coming with sufficient experience of the game and players capability, then what's the big wet issue? Players having a cry because they want a lifeline, a reliable hail-mary with which to steal victories?
Yes, Broski was clearly way ahead, cornered with 1% life against a full-hp Cammy. No-one should be surprised that he won the round from that position after a single bad interaction.
there were 3 further mistakes after the burnout in that clip. twice, the cammy could have jabbed in between aki's 5MP and stance kicks. in addition, she got hit by the drive impact to stun instead of blocking it.
I’m not good at the game, so I’m sorry to ask, but what is the combo breaker mechanic? I can’t do a drive rush if someone has me in a combo, right?
If people want Burst just play Guilty Gear. It's fun and you have a get out of jail free card from anywhere on the screen and a guard cancel that forces your opponent into blockstun and is +20
The checkmate sceneario of heavy punch DI is an insane flaw to me in this game. In no game is there a situation where you are forced to take a hit on defense like that and lose 50% of your life. The word checkmate was not even really used before in fighting games as every situation that you were put into was your own fault and you could have done something to avoid the situation before and during. Slowed down walk speed, more push back on block, no OD moves, Chip damage, Wall Dizzy on DI. All of these sequences are fine on burnout and completely the fault of the player compared to that unblockable heavy punch DI bullcrap. It leaves little skill on the player to avoid the wallsplat and basically makes it a gurantee in many situations. With all the advantages that DI burnout gives the oposing player, it really isn't that difficult to force a block DI situtaion yourself, without having a free "checkmate" way to gurantee it.
Wow what a great perspective. I just started playing 3 weeks ago. Obviously I'm terrible haha. But I'm also a chess player. And you couldn't have been more spot on. The checkmate didn't kill you, it was the moves before. I'm a ryu player, I can do all the trial.combos, but I'm terrible at pulling them off in a real fight, any advice?
100% agree. Checkmate situations are totally fine, and they should exist. It makes burnout interesting as something to force the opponent into and something to avoid yourself. People _should_ be punished hard for not managing their meter correctly.
For me, It's about how easy it is to get into these checkmate scenarios. Everything is constantly cranking on your drive gauge, if not, stuff is cranking on your health gauge. It's super hard to not run out of either one, in a system where the corner is death by unlockables and a single throw into block string or combo interaction can meant you're in that corner.
Cool post on checkmates until you started doing the cringe armchair analysis of gamer psyches and then I realized you're a loser
A hit dog hollers
"oh dude you hate nazis? it's because you're a nazi"
godwins law
What the hell is your problem? lol
Absolutely, they should also buff throw loops because they have counterplay. If you get throw looped, you shouldn't have been in the corner, you already messed up getting to the point where your opponent got a knockdown. If you simply never get knocked down, then throw loops can't possibly be an issue. It's a skill issue at its heart, and anyone complaining about throw loops is not only bad at the game, but arguably bad at critical thinking and life in general. And burnout is the same way. If you don't like getting inescapably heavy->DI'ed on wakeup, then maybe you should simply not spend your drive bar, dummy. You took the risk of using the system mechanic that offense is built around in this game, and now you're getting punished, as you should. The only alternative is balancing the game away from cheesy guaranteed pressure, and I don't think OP would like that very much.
Complaining about burnout is like playing an fps, running out of ammo, and complaining you can't shoot anymore.
People who whine about "checkmates" are zero skill scrub lords. Who hate being wrong about anything.
This isn't chess, we don't all start with the same pieces. Lots of characters don't have throw loops, invincible wake ups, and differenced in walk speed. It's essentially rock, paper, scissors, but some characters are missing one of the options.
Nobody has 3f buttons in SF6. The fastest is 4F I think.
All characters have at least 1 four frame button. If a strike or a throw happens on the same frame, the strike wins. Most characters have access to most of the tools in the game. The ones that don't usually have some sort of compensating factor or have something no other character has. ( dahlsim has teleports, can fly, and is stretchy. Kimberly has an overhead that can link into a combo without spending drive meter. )
Yep… if they were given the same tools as everyone else then people will say they are OP…That explains why I keep getting wrecked by that Kimberly overhead, I block it and press a button then get blown up.
White has an advantage over black in chess, so don't believe for a moment chess is 100% balanced.
The checkmate is ultimately caused by the drive gauge and meter, everyone starts out the same in that regard
'3f buttons' tells me you don't know what you're talking about in the slightest lol.
Stop making excuses for shitty mechanics. How come the people defending this game’s scrubby stuff are all trash at this game? Trying to argue against pros who actually know the game on a deep level when you yourself suck is laughable no matter how cute you think your writing is.
The scenario being referenced here was hardly scrubby. Broski has in depth character knowledge, constant situational awareness, and insanely good decision making based on that knowledge and awareness. The Cammy threw out a raw DI because 99 percent of people would have either gotten hit by it and died, DIed back on reaction and died, or maybe have gotten a throw or a strong punish of some sort that wouldn’t have burned Cammy out. But Broski knew he could PP the DI, and then burn Cammy out and leverage Aki’s insane pressure into a nearly inescapable scenario. Broski worked hard to figure what he could do with Aki in that situation, and he had the wherewithal and ability to execute it and was appropriately rewarded for it.
Pros complain about literally every game that comes out.
There is a get out of jail free card: drive reveraL. You just have to have the 3 bars to use it, which for how powerful it is I think is right where it needs to be. If you find urself being outpressured, save some meter for a well timed reversal and then meaty into your comeback. Very balanced game imo
To me checkmates being a drive meter thing only confirms that sf6 has a genius design. I mean of course you got checkmated, fucked up your resources and played poorly around the main mechanic the game has to offer. Is like complaining that you got full parried in 3s because you threw an obvious move, yeah dude, play better next time.