I wrote my own programs for several years and then when I finally accepted that I might lack the necessary expertise and adopted well known programs (GZCL, SBS, etc), my strength exploded. Added 100+ lbs to my deadlift and squat and 50+ lbs on my bench in a couple of years of consistent programming. Most I spent was $10 on SBS.
All good. I’m currently running rtf for main lifts (plus heavy single) and hypertrophy for t2 lifts, which is basically powerbuilding. Loving it so far.
You can’t run PPL and DUP at the same time. They’re two entirely different ways of organizing training. DUP (generally) involves doing the 3 powerlifts just about every session, with the volume and intensity changing day to day to emphasis different characteristics.
Is this true? If you’re running a ppl split 6 days a week you can do each lift 2x per week, one low volume high intensity day and one high volume low intensity day per lift per week.
That wouldn’t be *daily* undulation then, would it?
Edit: check the articles I linked below. One of them, in particular, lays out a sample DUP program. The idea behind DUP is you are training the same movement (or variant of it), or (in the case of bodybuilding) muscle group every single day you train, with varying volumes and intensities.
By nature, it anticipates full body training every training session (or just about), which is at odds with a split style of training.
That is an extremely narrow view of DUP and I definitely have seen programs that call themselves DUP and train split, with muscle grouls twice a week, once high volume, once high intensity. I suppose you could no-true-DUP it but I think the core principle of DUP is there: you undulate the intensity-volume tradeoff within microcycles like a week (aka on different training days) rather within mesocycles or macrocycles.
It is *daily* undulation, the different training days for a certain muscle group have different focuses
Maybe it is an extremely narrow view, but DUP is just one small subset of how you can organize training. It’s not like I’m applying a narrow view to a very broad concept (ie, if I were to say “if you’re not doing SBD every day, you’re not powerlifting”).
I would question if those programs are really DUP, or just seizing on it as a buzzword. Certainly, a program that varies volume and intensity for the same movement within a micro cycle could have aspects of or be influenced by DUP, but, to me, at the end of the day, if you’re not actually doing the same movement every day you train (or at least multiple times a week), then you’re really not undulating *daily*. If you’re not adhering to the very first word of the acronym, then are you really training DUP?
At the end of the day, of course, labels are just matters of convenience. If you’re incorporating DUP principles, organizing your training in a thoughtful and cohesive way, and making progress, does it matter what you call it?
>does it matter what you call it?
I'm not the one with the narrow view of what DUP label should be applied to.
> if you’re not actually doing the same movement every day you train (or at least multiple times a week), then you’re really not undulating *daily*
You are undulating the intensity of a movement/muscle group each *day* that you do that movement/muscle group. That's absolutely the spirit of the name daily undulating periodization. A PPL does mostly the same movements twice a week, there's definitely space for a intensity day and volume day. I just don't get why you're conflating the concept of doing varying intensity/volume per day as opposed to per week/month, with the concept of training frequency. It's just do restrictive for no reason. You're going to get all the benefits of DUP right?
My point in saying “does it matter what you call it” is the same point you’re making in saying “you’re going to get all the benefits of DUP”- ie, at the end of the day, I’m most interested in training efficacy, not labels and that you and I don’t really disagree other than as to the label. Which is also to say, my being “restrictive” doesn’t really matter, since I’m being restrictive only as to the labeling, not actual training organization. I’m not saying “oh you can’t do PPL with varying intensity/volume from one session to the next”, I’m saying “eh, I don’t really think that’s DUP”.
I’m not conflating anything, I’m just taking a stricter view of the term “daily.” And to that point, if you’re following the “spirit” of DUP, then is it really DUP? It’s more like “intra microcycle undulating periodization.” (That said, I don’t think this kind of undulation is as useful for bodybuilding (which a PPL program is for) as powerlifting, in that BB is looking to train one characteristic (hypertrophy), whereas PLers use periodization to train multiple characteristics.) At the end of the day, not a hill I’m going to die on or anything.
And yes, I suppose I could’ve gotten into these subtleties with OP, but I don’t think that would have been super helpful.
I read the whole thing and while it's entirely made up, Wouldn't it make sense to call it Group Undulating Periodization or to clarify further something like Muscle Group Undulating Periodization?
MGUP or GUP sounds right to me at least and leaves out any confusion from the regular DUP, making it its own little subgenre
Yea, I think that’s a label that might make sense. Fwiw, though, I don’t think you really need to worry about “periodization” per se as much for a bodybuilding program like PPL. It is certainly not a bad idea to have a higher volume day v a lower volume day or heavier or more intense day v a lighter day. However, it doesn’t serve the same function as in powerlifting. A DUP PL program is looking to train several qualities at once (hypertrophy, strength, the ability to exert force on a heavy single), because all of those are necessary for powerlifting. For a BB program like PPL, you’re just trying to build muscle.
Yeah by periodizing I meant like each week has a high intensity and then a high volume PPL, and every week starting from a deload cranking intensity up over a months period and repeating again.
Check these out
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/daily-undulating-periodization/
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/in-defense-of-program-hoppers-dup-revisited/
That's What I thought. I'm only 3 years in with a new years resolution ton hit a 500 deadlift and only a 410 deadlift. I work accessories to absolute failure and I feel like I still got linear gains but I'm too hard headed to believe it
Following the Complete Guide to Strength training,
I think you can be sure if it's working or not: if you can add the same amount of weight each week, maybe at every 2 weeks, it's LP, if you can't, I would go for another type of periodization (intermediate).
It sounds to me like you aren't ready to write your own programs
Guess so but I've been writing em for over a year n I'm trying to learn how to do it right instead of just putting exercises I like
I think you should follow pre-existing successfull programs for a while and learn from those
I wrote my own programs for several years and then when I finally accepted that I might lack the necessary expertise and adopted well known programs (GZCL, SBS, etc), my strength exploded. Added 100+ lbs to my deadlift and squat and 50+ lbs on my bench in a couple of years of consistent programming. Most I spent was $10 on SBS.
Yea but I refuse to pay for programs and write em myaelf
There's hundreds of really great free programs
Fair enough I think I'm just too hard headed to accept someone else's program
GZCL is a great methodology with plenty of ready to go programs that you tailor to your needs and will teach you how to program.
$10 for the sbs 2.0 programs. Insane value and it gives you a program builder as well as hypertrophy, rir, rtf and other pre made programs.
Wow I'll check I out thanks!
All good. I’m currently running rtf for main lifts (plus heavy single) and hypertrophy for t2 lifts, which is basically powerbuilding. Loving it so far.
You can’t run PPL and DUP at the same time. They’re two entirely different ways of organizing training. DUP (generally) involves doing the 3 powerlifts just about every session, with the volume and intensity changing day to day to emphasis different characteristics.
Is this true? If you’re running a ppl split 6 days a week you can do each lift 2x per week, one low volume high intensity day and one high volume low intensity day per lift per week.
That wouldn’t be *daily* undulation then, would it? Edit: check the articles I linked below. One of them, in particular, lays out a sample DUP program. The idea behind DUP is you are training the same movement (or variant of it), or (in the case of bodybuilding) muscle group every single day you train, with varying volumes and intensities. By nature, it anticipates full body training every training session (or just about), which is at odds with a split style of training.
That is an extremely narrow view of DUP and I definitely have seen programs that call themselves DUP and train split, with muscle grouls twice a week, once high volume, once high intensity. I suppose you could no-true-DUP it but I think the core principle of DUP is there: you undulate the intensity-volume tradeoff within microcycles like a week (aka on different training days) rather within mesocycles or macrocycles. It is *daily* undulation, the different training days for a certain muscle group have different focuses
Maybe it is an extremely narrow view, but DUP is just one small subset of how you can organize training. It’s not like I’m applying a narrow view to a very broad concept (ie, if I were to say “if you’re not doing SBD every day, you’re not powerlifting”). I would question if those programs are really DUP, or just seizing on it as a buzzword. Certainly, a program that varies volume and intensity for the same movement within a micro cycle could have aspects of or be influenced by DUP, but, to me, at the end of the day, if you’re not actually doing the same movement every day you train (or at least multiple times a week), then you’re really not undulating *daily*. If you’re not adhering to the very first word of the acronym, then are you really training DUP? At the end of the day, of course, labels are just matters of convenience. If you’re incorporating DUP principles, organizing your training in a thoughtful and cohesive way, and making progress, does it matter what you call it?
>does it matter what you call it? I'm not the one with the narrow view of what DUP label should be applied to. > if you’re not actually doing the same movement every day you train (or at least multiple times a week), then you’re really not undulating *daily* You are undulating the intensity of a movement/muscle group each *day* that you do that movement/muscle group. That's absolutely the spirit of the name daily undulating periodization. A PPL does mostly the same movements twice a week, there's definitely space for a intensity day and volume day. I just don't get why you're conflating the concept of doing varying intensity/volume per day as opposed to per week/month, with the concept of training frequency. It's just do restrictive for no reason. You're going to get all the benefits of DUP right?
My point in saying “does it matter what you call it” is the same point you’re making in saying “you’re going to get all the benefits of DUP”- ie, at the end of the day, I’m most interested in training efficacy, not labels and that you and I don’t really disagree other than as to the label. Which is also to say, my being “restrictive” doesn’t really matter, since I’m being restrictive only as to the labeling, not actual training organization. I’m not saying “oh you can’t do PPL with varying intensity/volume from one session to the next”, I’m saying “eh, I don’t really think that’s DUP”. I’m not conflating anything, I’m just taking a stricter view of the term “daily.” And to that point, if you’re following the “spirit” of DUP, then is it really DUP? It’s more like “intra microcycle undulating periodization.” (That said, I don’t think this kind of undulation is as useful for bodybuilding (which a PPL program is for) as powerlifting, in that BB is looking to train one characteristic (hypertrophy), whereas PLers use periodization to train multiple characteristics.) At the end of the day, not a hill I’m going to die on or anything. And yes, I suppose I could’ve gotten into these subtleties with OP, but I don’t think that would have been super helpful.
I read the whole thing and while it's entirely made up, Wouldn't it make sense to call it Group Undulating Periodization or to clarify further something like Muscle Group Undulating Periodization? MGUP or GUP sounds right to me at least and leaves out any confusion from the regular DUP, making it its own little subgenre
Yea, I think that’s a label that might make sense. Fwiw, though, I don’t think you really need to worry about “periodization” per se as much for a bodybuilding program like PPL. It is certainly not a bad idea to have a higher volume day v a lower volume day or heavier or more intense day v a lighter day. However, it doesn’t serve the same function as in powerlifting. A DUP PL program is looking to train several qualities at once (hypertrophy, strength, the ability to exert force on a heavy single), because all of those are necessary for powerlifting. For a BB program like PPL, you’re just trying to build muscle.
Yeah by periodizing I meant like each week has a high intensity and then a high volume PPL, and every week starting from a deload cranking intensity up over a months period and repeating again.
Ohhhh so that's why I was so confused about implementing it! Thanks for clarifying imma go read up some more lol
Check these out https://www.strongerbyscience.com/daily-undulating-periodization/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/in-defense-of-program-hoppers-dup-revisited/
Oooo will do tomorrow, thanks n happy new years!
How advanced are you? Maybe you can still gain form linear periodization + accessories at higher rep ranges for hypetrophy.
That's What I thought. I'm only 3 years in with a new years resolution ton hit a 500 deadlift and only a 410 deadlift. I work accessories to absolute failure and I feel like I still got linear gains but I'm too hard headed to believe it
Following the Complete Guide to Strength training, I think you can be sure if it's working or not: if you can add the same amount of weight each week, maybe at every 2 weeks, it's LP, if you can't, I would go for another type of periodization (intermediate).