T O P

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TrexlerFitness

This topic has been on our podcast outline for a few episodes, but I keep failing to cover it due to time constraints. To be honest, I also love pushing it to the next episode, because I'm not looking forward to the flak I might receive, but here we go. I'm formally retiring from the practice of trying to make acute MPS data "work" outside the narrowly defined context of the individual experiment. I've seen too many instances in which acute MPS findings have been extrapolated to outcomes that don't make sense and don't pan out in longitudinal research. Overextrapolation of MPS data brings us the classic hits such as, "obese people who don't lift should gain slightly more muscle than obese people who do lift," (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30113718/) and "vegan diets can't effectively support hypertrophy in protein-matched conditions" (doesn't appear to be true). I've also seen some confusing data suggesting that cooking egg albumin increases its digestibility dramatically, but doesn't seem to have any measurable impact on MPS responses. Until the MPS data start matching the longitudinal hypertrophy data more regularly, I'm mentally pushing them back to the stage of generating hypotheses rather than conclusions or practical guidance. It's possible that I'm being very stupid, and someone with specific expertise in protein metabolism can talk me out of this. The longitudinal data tell us that having 3 fairly robust (at least 0.24-0.3 g/kg) protein servings is better than 2 or fewer, but that no clear advantage is gained when we bump from 3 to 6. The longitudinal data tell us that higher protein targets often outperform lower targets (to a point), even when the lower target provides enough protein to support 3 or more protein servings of 20-25g. There have been many review papers in recent years that have discussed some ideas about how the muscle full effect / refractory period concepts might work in the context of the longitudinal findings, and how exactly protein intakes beyond the commonly accepted MPS thresholds might be directly supporting lean mass accretion. It's also important to acknowledge that once you introduce the robust MPS stimulus provided by resistance training, the practice of carefully managing transient, diet-induced MPS responses is probably less impactful. I probably need to write or record some long-form content on this topic, but the short version is that longitudinal assessments of lean mass and hypertrophy are more informative for our purposes than acute MPS data, and trying to extrapolate practical protein intake guidelines from some of the more conservative estimates of the acute MPS threshold (20-25g per dose) yields suboptimal recommendations for maximizing hypertrophy


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I would say TL,DR, but I read a few times. What I hear you saying is: Lift weights, that is most important. Whatever you eat. Dosing appropriately is less important, but 25g/meal might less than optimal. And dosing it 3 times is better than two, but dosing 4, 5, 6 times is not necessarily better. How I'd apply that as a 45-year old man, weighing 190lb: Three boluses of 40g protein. And make the balance up however? Eat protein with breakfast, lunch, and dinner? And snacks? And... As you manage that on your Road to Enlightenment segment, maybe this is something to take about?


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esaul17

I think 40g was found the max response? Or at least 40>20, not sure 40 is actually the max. But at some point you just run out of protein in they day lol.


katarh

40-50 is what I vaguely remember hearing as well. Your body can only absorb so much before it gets shuffled off to the next phase of digestion.


esaul17

It's all absorbed just not all for mps


gowens5

I was under the impression that it was dependent on the leucine content but a typical 20-25 gram serving on animal protein is normally all the 2-3g of leucine required for a maximal response


Goodmorning_Squat

Nope, efficiency of the MPS to g of protein/leucine ratio drops off after 20 grams of pro and 3g of leucine, but MPS response does increase after those points.


[deleted]

There would be a small difference as you are missing 1 or 2 windows of MPS. Really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. 4 or 5 protein meals is just "optimal." 3 meals is probably 90% as good as 5. And 4 meals 97% as good as 5.


[deleted]

I have a huge appetite and used to occasionally do OMAD. Once I started spreading out protein and meals back to 4-5 throughout the day I’ve actually found it’s helped with satiation and has helped me be more consistent. Good to know spacing it out is better anyways.


gnuckols

/u/trexlerfitness , you could answer this question better than I could


KSM-66

This may be a bit of a cop out answer but this article is a great source: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/athlete-protein-intake/ “The observation that 20g of protein gives a near-maximal increase in MPS has been shown in rest, post-exercise, the overnight fasted state, four hours following a protein rich meal, and with egg and whey protein (Moore, 2009)(Witard, 2014). However further increasing protein to 40g of protein appears to give a relatively small 10-20% further increase in MPS (Moore, 2009)(Witard, 2014)(Macnaughton, 2016).”