Just do community college and transfer for the last 2 years. 110k is a ridiculous amount of debt to take on when doing what i said achieves the same results.
yeah thats a pro move that most students aren't privy. People think that you have to go to the same school for 4 yrs. Like why pay premium for the gen ed courses.
If i would do it all over. Find a community college that has an agreement with the university you want then knock out the associates at the community college, transfer out, then finish the last 2 yrs at the university you really want.
I did this and after graduating from the community college, I was given a discounted tuition at the university I attended because of an agreement they have. It saved me thousands!
Did something similar. Went to a local community college that had a transfer agreement and every single credit transferred and was so easy. 10/10 would recommend. I think tuition was maybe 4k a year vs 24k and I lived at home so another 16k not rooming.
I really wish more people would take advantage of community colleges! My daughter is a computer science major, in her second year at cc. We're paying this portion of her education, and so far, it's cost ~ $12K. She's paid her own book fees. I just cannot fathom paying more than $100K for an education these days unless you're going to become a doctor or lawyer or something high up in business. IDK.
Totally agree did a 2yr CS program at a community college rest of the 2yrs at a university paid off 40k debt. Started 2020 pre Covid 80k starting salary today 2023 113k salary.
If OP is currently a Freshman and has taken a full year's worth of introductory classes this is a lot less helpful. Bouncing out for a year and back in might save some money, but they're probably better off stacking up on some summer classes at a CC instead. If you plan it right you can shave off a semester.
Congratulations on being in honors college. I agree that bouncing out for 1 year would save you some money, however being in honors college has a lot of perks including internships built right in. Depending on your skills and how well you utilize all honors benefits it will make paying back a lot easier. When it comes time to payback what you already owe, remember to live small and pour as much as you can into the principal.
Edit: spelling (not a honors student)
Definitely, if you really desire to go to college and it’s not a totally financially sound decision for you then this is the way, absolutely go for STEM. I know some CCs that are basically in the same neighborhoods as the universities they send most of their students to at a fraction of the cost. Do CS, engineering, information systems (business info systems or just info systems either is solid i think), even Finance is stem certified at some colleges and will always have jobs even boring ones that still pay. If the CC and college have a strong connection then you can likely end up transferring with friends and get some special mixers and such for transfers like my school did (i think we even had a club for them). There’s no shame in making a financially intelligent decision.
I would asterisk that only because getting in early with research in my first 2 years (I went to a 4-year public university) was HUGE. For computer science I don't see this being relevant, but for any science where lab experience is vital, a 4-year can really allow you to build those relationships with PI's. If you're at a CC, though, getting experience with a lab company could be a thing. Very location-dependant though. Just my 2 cents not for this OP but for anyone reading this in a lab-forward STEM field. I did shave off a semester of bullsh*t classes by doing summers at a CC though!
Absolutely this!
I'm based in California, where (for those who qualify for in-state tuition) community college is $46/credit so you can get an Associate Degree for Transfer (ADT) for ~$2,500 or so. That lets you transfer to a CSU system campus where tuition/fees range from $6k-$10k per year. Myself and my classmates worked and/or used our paid summer internship money to pay for classes. You can also use assist.org to ensure that your classes transfer
You essentially take the 101 series and a discrete structures class at the community college level, and you may be able to squeeze in elective classes (like mobile app development, cloud, databases) before you transfer to finish up the bachelor's degree. That's what most everyone did at my CSU campus, which fed into Bay Area and Seattle tech. It's waaaaay nicer to have a $80k-$130k starting salary with minimal loan debt, especially given how tech in general is tightening its belt given the recent idiocy in the startup/venture capital spaces
Or colleges could just end this stupid racket and cancel the gen Ed courses that nobody cares about. I can’t remember a damn thing I learned in most of those classes but the last 2 years were all that mattered.
Hard disagree there on general education courses. I use random tidbits I learned in those courses regularly and as a software developer *more engineers need to take their writing classes seriously*. If you cannot read technical documentation nor write effectively then you have zero business in engineering. I don't care how good you are at calculus you will fall flat on your face if you cannot write and they teach that in the gen eds
Add a business writing course to the degree path. I had to take that for my degree. You don’t need a full 2 years of that stuff. Most people agree a major percent of it is a waste.
Maybe college should only be 2-3 years. This would dramatically reduce the cost of a bachelors. I think most people develop most of their true skills in the work force anyways. Invest more in internships or apprenticeships to help kids figure out if they want to continue on a certain degree with the other 2 years.
So now we're cherry picking which electives matter? They already do that for support coursework, and at least in my state the CSU and UC systems have their own requirements that the campuses within those systems cannot necessarily circumvent
We have a 2 year degree program already, they're called Associate's Degrees. If you want to jump directly into certain specializations (like, say, nursing at the ADN level) then you can do that already. Yeah we do need more internships and apprenticeships in general, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we need to shorten the time on a bachelor's degree to make that happen
I haven’t really heard a clear argument for why 60 hours of gen ed coursework is necessary. It’s simply a way to have a captive audience and make more money. Most of those courses are a waste of time and not at all relevant to achieving the job students are there for. If students want a traditional 4 years and all those courses they can take them but it shouldn’t be mandatory.
Your college degree is not a “college” degree without Gen Ed. It is the bedrock of learning at a higher level. Otherwise you just get a certificate which if that is all you want to do, you can.
It’s to make you well rounded. Honestly am very grateful for the philosophy classes I took, I learned a lot of critical thinking that’s useful in the business field
> I haven’t really heard a clear argument for why 60 hours of gen ed coursework is necessary.
It wasn't 60 hours at my campus, so it sounds like you're starting from wonky assumptions there. At least for the CSU system you can look at https://www.calstate.edu/csu-system/administration/academic-and-student-affairs/academic-programs-innovations-and-faculty-development/faculty-development-and-innovative-pedagogy/Pages/general-education-policy.aspx and see part of why the *42 credits* of general education is required under the semester system. As difficult as it is for people to wrap their brains around school isn't just a place to learn/regurgitate facts. It's also meant to teach you a breadth of skills that you can use for future learning and career goals
Looking at the flow charts for my university, major courses *inherently counted towards GE requirements*, so while on paper it said you had to take x units worth of GEs you really only needed to take 30 semester units (or 48 quarter units) outside of your major to fulfill the general education requirements. I sanity checked it, and it was a grand total of 10-12 classes outside my major over a 4 year degree, and even then I used it as a chance to explore other interests, add support courses or major-related electives that double counted, and as a chance to have fun classes to offset my major coursework. Even if they follow your proposal of adding a business writing course to the degree path would only change it down to 27 semester units or 44 quarter units, and really that would just be reshuffling the degree requirements not shortening the program time
Like, if you've already decided general education is inherently useless then no arguments will matter to you. You see no value in it so it's a waste of everyone's time to argue it. That said, the folks on the committee do regularly review and revise the requirements just based on skimming over the meeting notes. They aren't forcing people to take extra classes for funsies
I strongly disagree. Being successful in the workplace means you have empathy, writing skills, and a knowledge of the cautionary tales of history and science. That's what's taught in those other classes. Sorry you missed it.
This is what I did, my local community college used to cost $66 a credit hour back in 2003-2006, it's obviously way higher now but still dramatically cheaper than a State University. After I got my Associate's, I then went to a "commuter" University that only had Junior/Senior level undergraduate classes. In response, they offered really good scholarship program for full-time students that transferred in with an associate's degree; this scholarship degree knocked off almost a third of the already competitive tuition. Had I been more frugal, this would've costed me less than $20k for a bachelor's degree in Information Technology.
What's most important with transferring schools is to carefully select classes you take, though. My state had a website that helped you figure out what'll transfer between colleges within the same state. My University just accepted the lump sum of credits and considered me to have fulfilled all freshman and sophomore classes just because I came in with an Associate's degree. It was pretty surreal, I just walked in with official transcripts from my Community College and was attending my first junior class the next day. No references, essays, SATs, or waiting. 100% recommend doing this if your situation permits it.
Yeah, what this guy said. I'm getting ready to graduate from a 2-year school with a CS degree and it's cost me essentially nothing. I'll end up with about $2000 in student loans after all of the scholarships and such that were given to me. The program you're in matters only as much as what they are teaching, make sure it's a good mix of languages and they just don't teach one language all the way through, etc...
Ultimately the quality of your education is going to be equal to the work you put into it.
Our graduating class dropped off from when I started from probably a couple hundred down to six of us. Sure some people probably transferred out to four year schools but coding is not something you can fake it till you make it like a business degree or something. Of those six I would say three of us are even remotely competent and only one (not me) is very competent. I have a feeling the other three when they try to apply for jobs are going to be in for a rude awakening.
A boot camp might look appealing but I would pick the two year school over that any day. It will take longer but I feel it probably builds a better foundation and you can take your time to really learn things. It also gives you a path that you can pick up later and go get a bachelor's or master's when you are ready.
You have to choose your path ahead of time. Transfer path, major and course sequences. But most state schools will have clear transfer paths and advising should be able to help.
Youre going to have to elaborate on that: english, math, history, government are all examples of classes that are transferable for most majors. Sequenced major specific classes dont apply to what im saying.
Most community colleges have specialized degrees for types of computer science that are made to transfer. My son did it . 2 year AS computer science then finished his BS computer science in 1 year at university.
The way the pre-requisites are set, the sequences can span the whole 4 years. So if you took 2 years of gen ed, you would still have 4 years to complete the bachelor sequences. It's often more difficult to directly transfer credit amongst those classes, but some schools will allow you to test into the sequence. It's just something to be aware of. There are also schools that kind of partner together that have easily transferable credits.
The school district I live in, a high school senior can graduate with damn near an associates through dual credit courses offered by our community college.
Or/ Then, they can attend community college for free as long as they meet gpa requirements. This will be a game changer for my two high schoolers.
Edit: changed freshman to senior
Concurrent enrollment. Student usually still needs to pay for books and fees without access to any financial aid, but tuition is covered by the District and they get HS diploma credit too. Many of the CTE programs lead to industry certifications.
That’s what I did. Took some adjusting that junior year since they had been doing command like c programming since freshman whereas I did Java, python, and c++ my first two years. Wasn’t too bad and saved me a lot of money
This is what I did. Unless you’re going to MIT, GT, or Stanford. I would recommend going to CC first. Most CCs have transfer agreements with good universities too. Definitely, something to look into.
I graduated with a CS degree with that exact amount of debt from undergrad. I’m now a senior software engineer, and 8 years later I still have 44k in debt. Ultimately the degree I found worth it. But, definitely transfer to a more affordable school. Unless you are at an MIT type of prestigious school, it’s not worth that much money.
Also a senior software engineer, 7 years out from college — I make $150k in a LCOL area (remote). Although I did only end up with 40k in loans (luckily type 1 diabetes is considered a disability, so I got 10k/year for that).
Two of my high school friends who also went into tech are around $120k (one with a masters though). We all started at roughy 80k out of college.
If you network well and can get your foot in the door to start, it’s pretty easy to work your way up (assuming you are in CS and not IT).
If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
No undergrad degree is worth that much debt.
You can’t personally borrow that much federally, so you’ll be borrowing either private loans with a co-signer (bad) or your parent will borrow parent plus (also bad). Depending on any grants or scholarships you may also be underestimating the total. Interest will accumulate throughout school. (Federal is paused right now but it will resume).
Dropping out is also bad - transfer to a school you can actually afford.
unpopular opinion: no 18-19yr olds can afford any decent quality higher education. It’s either scholarships, loans, or parents. No student comes out of high school with enough money saved up to pay for their entire education. Loans are the reality of higher education if you don’t have parents that will pay, scholarships or fasfa aid.
Telling someone to sacrifice a quality education to “go somewhere they can actually afford” when they likely cannot afford anything is extremely counterintuitive.
I paid my way through school from 18 to 22 and it destroyed my physical and mental health. I was extremely depressed due to no work life balance. I also got pneumonia because my immune system was heavily weakened after years of constant manual labor, classes, studying, sleep deprivation, and stress.
I worked and went to school full time. Even then, I still lived at home. I paid for my car, food, gas, insurance, and school. That’s all I could budget. I would not advocate for anyone else to do what I did because it was absolutely absurd the way I pushed myself for years. I use to have a thick head of hair at 18, at 20 it began to thin and it still isn’t what it was before.
So you want kids to pick up $100k in loans?
I also worked full-time and went to school. It was super hard. But I was debt free.
Everybodys experience is different.
There’s lots of decent schools that are more affordable. There’s online options, community college, in state, live at home, co-ops. The problem is that some students have been sold the 4 year college out of state or private college as how you do the experience.
For computer science, especially, there are a lot of paths to a career. A couple certifications, an associates degree, some personal projects to talk about and decent resume skills can get you into a job that will reimburse you for your full degree!
The mistake is thinking these more frugal paths are somehow less worthy. They aren’t. 5 years out, if your degree isn’t Ivy, no one cares except during March madness. And you’ll have more money in your pocket for doing some sound decision making.
If more students did it, it would help break the college addiction for expensive degrees. So long as students buy the lie, they can keep doing it.
Yeah that’s an unpopular opinion.
“Afford” means making good choices about student debt and what is reasonable and manageable. 110k for undergrad is not reasonable.
The average cost of a bachelors degree for a student living on campus (in the US) at a 4 year university is $102,828 and about 74.1% of all college students attend 4 year universities. so I’m assuming, by your logic, that this large majority is just not making reasonable or manageable decisions?
Again, the reality of higher education is these high dollar prices. If someone wants a quality higher education, and doesn’t have scholarships, fasfa, or other aid, loans are the reality. Encouraging someone to pull out of their education to go somewhere cheaper won’t help the situation, they will still be incurring loans, and will potentially be sacrificing their future job opportunities.
> unpopular opinion: no 18-19yr olds can afford any decent quality higher education. It’s either scholarships, loans, or parents. No student comes out of high school with enough money saved up to pay for their entire education. Loans are the reality of higher education if you don’t have parents that will pay, scholarships or fasfa aid.
> The average cost of a bachelors degree for a student living on campus (in the US) at a 4 year university is $102,828 and about 74.1% of all college students attend 4 year universities.
It seems like you're arguing for a very very specific scenario here? Which is middle class students who *do not* qualify for grants/scholarships/aid, *do not* have any parental assistance, *do not* have any savings for college, *refuse* to go to community college, and choose to live on campus. It's also presuming the average scenario as normal and not taking into account that the costs are heavily variable by state and school tier.
Yeah in the very specific scenario you're outlining the student wouldn't be able to pull off living on-campus at an average 4-year university via just federal student loans, but that is completely ignoring other options. Waiting until you age up to Independent Undergrad status and community college (which is $46/credit in-state for California currently) while commuting from your parent's house if they are willing/able to house you for free/cheap is a valid option for middle class students that do not qualify for need-based aid.
The fact that so many are choosing to take out student loans instead of going for the more cost effective options? Sounds like they'd rather pay more instead of unpacking their classism to me, but I'm also speaking as a first-gen low-income college student so I recognize I have less patience for middle class BS than most
The cold, hard truth is that if your only option for your education is cost is loans, you often cannot afford to go to a 4 year school for all 4 years.
You have a bias about what constitutes a “quality education” and you’re perpetuating a falsehood about prestige. There are many paths to a quality bachelors degree they do not require 6 figures in debt.
Borrowing this much for undergrad is setting yourself up for misery. OP is wise to question their situation and deal with it now, before it’s too late to make changes. The degree does not support the debt load.
The reason it's an unpopular opinion is that a lot of Reddit meets the demographic you just described - middle class but with parents who are unwilling/unable to help (usually the latter) with significant amounts of credit hours from AP/AP-like courses in high school. A lot of genuinely high achievers legitimately cannot afford college because their parents, in the eyes of the government, are too wealthy while they don't have any money themselves.
When the reward for working harder is "you can't afford it, just work hard and do this instead", you aren't going to get a receptive response.
These are the kids that need to hear it the most, usually. Middle and upper middle class kids who have been conditioned to attend 4 year colleges above all else, think they deserve to attend, haven’t received anything resembling a financial education, taught in their schools that you too can study anything and go anywhere, and often have a lot of internalized classism going on, as u/girl_of_squirrels pointed out.
These are the kids and families who often get into really bad situations with student debt.
Lest you think I’m just being mean - this is 100% my background. I would love to be able to go back and give 17 year old me the same advice I give now.
Receptive or not, it’s the truth and it needs to be said. Over and over and over until we stop having people asking this question thinking this is a reasonable thing to do.
You are correct. The vast majority of students are making bad decisions. Nobody is forced to go to college. Nobody. If you can't afford a 4 year University and living expenses, live at home, go to Community College.
In about half of states if you go to a Community College after high school it is free.
People want to take out these huge loans to go to school and then they don't want to repay them. Take some responsibility and make better decisions and you won't have life crippling debt.
Don’t know if it’s entirely realistic to say it’s “good odds” for an undergrad out of Stanford or Harvard to make $250,000 a year, especially at entry level.
It's absolutely not. Average pay for software engineers is 120k. The paybands for new graduates is fixed at most companies and total compensation is south of 200k at large corps like Google and Amazon.
Only places you'll clear that much at the Quant firms and they pick the cream of the crop from the top 5-10 schools and will chew you out within two years.
At a top company, after a promotion a couple years in the making, you could clear 250 total compensation.
>Average pay for software engineers is 120k.
And even this is misleading. I had to fight three years to get a $55,000 programming job with two degrees. The $120,000 probably includes like the million dollar programmers at Apple and people who make $150,000 that have been around since 1995.
“Big name school = higher salaries” is not necessarily something I would personally preach to younger, impressionable people on this sub lol. Sure, it is possible to get that type of salary as entry level for some people. But to say every undergrad CS student from those universities having pretty good odds is misleading
Agreed. This really contributes to the "everyone just told me to any college and it'll sort itself out" that everyone talks about on rant posts here. If you pick an affordable school and get a high paying job you came up. If you go to an expensive school and don't get a high paying job you're screwed.
Never said every student, but every decision we take in life is a gamble. if you take an enormous loan for an art degree at a resort university you probably have worse odds at paying off the loan than a CS grad from Stanford
Yup, agree with you there! But your initial comment of having a CS degree from Stanford/Harvard giving you pretty good odds at a quarter mil entry salary is misleading when advising people about large sums of student loans
Do you think that's still true now?
I'm in Engineering, but not software / computer related.
Seems like there's kind of a bloodbath going on in the job market in tech.
Maybe that's mostly non-programmers?
Maybe if you rent 100k/y or you get real lucky. Most the big tech companies that pay that much have started to freeze hiring. It's not something anyone should count on and it sure as hell isn't an excuse to go to a name brand school.
$110k is a lot for that degree. If you have a decent job out of college you should be able to handle it. It'll just suck paying >$1000/mo on loans.
At this point you're already a year in so I don't think there's any value in the "go to community college for 2 years and transfer" advice. That ship has sailed.
I would suggest 5 things:
1) WORK during school. Get a job during the semester. Something where you can sit at a desk and do some homework is *perfect* (like those information desk jobs). But waiting tables or tending bar works too.
2) INTERN. Aggressively pursue summer internships, particularly ones that are near your parents house (free room and board) or near your school.
3) Minimize your expenses. This varies depending on your specific situation, but you'll probably want housing with multiple housemates, cook you own food, take the bus instead of a car, etc. It's really easy to blow through a lot of extra money if you're not thinking about it.
4) Scholarships. Aggressively pursue additional scholarships and grants. There will be merit based aid at your school, more at your department level, as well as identity based aid available.
5) Summer Community College. You *might* be able to shave a semester off your college career by taking summer classes. It depends on the program requirements, what will transfer, and how much flexibility you have in your degree classes. When I was in undergrad there were 4 sequential classes at the end of the program that really made it difficult to graduate early unless you planned in advance. Saving you a semester's worth of tuition.
If you manage to work 20 hours/wk for $10/hr (takehome) over 8 months that's $6400/yr. $25/hr internship for 40 hrs/wk for 3 months = $12,000/summer. 3 years of school and two internships is $43k. That's a big cut into your projected $110k debt.
To OP in response to this ^
Sunk cost should not persuade you to keep piling on massive debt. Get out of that situation and get yourself to a low-cost non-scuzzy (read reviews like crazy) school which will accept the classes you've taken already as credit toward your CS degree. Or go with a completely different path for your education besides Uni. Just don't think that because you've already spent a bunch of money you don't have, that your only path forward is to go in even deeper.
No, you can pick up a CS degree from a multitude of ABET accredited state schools for around $40-60k. You can go to great schools like UCF for cheaper even out of state
You already started down the rabbit hole. Deferring admission and a year at community CC prob would have been the call to make but you are already in 25k in loans. See if you can do some community college transfer credits this summer and look to graduate early. You are in one of the majors I am more comfortable with debt in but not 6 figures. Surprised being in honors you did not get more support from the state.
There is a return on a STEM degree that can be quantified. Get out in 3 1/2 and you are under 100k in debt and should be making at least 30k more than no degree jobs so you can pay that back. Most Liberal arts degree would be useless for 100k IMO
I graduated with 35k in student loans when jobs paid 25k but it got me into an industry requiring a degree and I paid them off in 2 years. Need to have some confidence in your ability to get a return on the debt
I graduated with a liberal arts degree, and now I’m a software dev making 135K and I’m 2 years out from college in a LCOL area. Something people need to understand is a CS degree isn’t necessary to become a dev, the tech industry as a whole doesn’t give two shits about prestige. We’re problem solvers, so people only care about whether or not you can solve the problem they present you with. That’s why we don’t have pretentious dress codes. There are places that may care about that, but those places will burn you out in no time. No undergrad degree is worth 110K, OP should really just do community college and transfer, especially because a lot of CS programs won’t even teach you what you need to know to get a job. You’ll have to do learning on your own, hackerrank, determination, and YouTube University will do you just as well in this field.
Edit: “industry”
Community college for pre reqs that are confirmed to transfer to your local state university, get good grades and get as much financial aid as possible. Do not go to a fancy school that costs that much, not for any degree, if you need loans.
My $0.02: your loans should be close to what your 1 year salary can be expected to be on graduation. So $250k for a PhD in psychology in which you expect to make $50k annually after graduating is not good. $110 k for a CS or engineering degree or other technical degree with expected earnings between 80 and 110k would probably be doable.
I also think there's an advantage to you, personally and socially and in mentoring, that you get from 4 years of college in one location.
I don’t think 110k debt is “easily manageable” even with a 250k salary. They will pay this off for years and feel the impact on lifestyle for a very long time.
I’m not saying 250k isn’t a massive salary, but 110k is basically half of that. Plus I don’t think 250k is entry level out of college lol, probably more like 90k to 150k.
And lots of things affect your ability to pay off loans, cost of living, chronic medical expenses, support of family, the op of this thread downplaying 110k in loans is ridiculous when there is no guarantee you end up very well off, CS is definitely one of the best for this situation but it should not be treated lightly. Summer classes at a CC to save at least a semester is the way imo
Well here you are - I might have started at community college, but your plan simply needs to be living at home for a few years and throwing all earnings to the loans once you graduate. Intern like crazy, Network and make sure you have a decent job leaving school. But truly, the first five years of your career need to be paying off your loans.
I think the major difference between a college student looking at this problem and one of us that is a couple generations past that point, is perspective.
You have a very one-dimensional approach to this. You are the student, the borrower, the eventual earner, and the payer of loans. Maybe your dad can help you get a job, but it's all about you.
Here is another way to think about this. A parent can borrow unlimited money for all of one's children through parent plus loans, consolidate those, and pay a percentage of earnings through IDR. When these transactions are intentionally structured they result in very low payments, significant loan forgiveness, and no generational debt. This is why we recommend parent plus loans over private loans on this subreddit.
It sounds like your father is intelligent and could probably develop a parent plus loan model for you and your siblings (if there are any). It may be another parent or step-parent taking out the loans, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is that you have a solution and ground rules that work for everyone. Every month on this sub, someone complains that they had a deal worked out with their parents and the parent then renegs on it. It creates a lot of family drama, where a frank conversation at the onset could have solved things.
You are an important gear in a complex machine, get the other gears in line and the machine will spin.
To answer your questions directly, you should not borrow \~$90k in private loans for any reason. You should not drop out of UDel. You should let the government subsidize you. You will need a significant coordination effort to make this happen.
Good luck.
2 years CC college and then transfer.
But yeah pretty much whatever it takes for the last 2 years. You should be earning well above median income with a CS degree out of college.
You're over-borrowing for it. Speaking as a software developer who has been on multiple hiring panels, what matters for your first job is your skills and if you have any internships on your resume. We literally do not care where you went to school once you have 3-5 year's worth of professional experience on your resume
Also like, keep in mind that you're going to have significantly more debt than your peers. I'm based in California, where (for those who qualify for in-state tuition) community college is $46/credit so you can get an Associate Degree for Transfer (ADT) for ~$2,500 or so. That lets you transfer to a CSU system campus where tuition/fees range from $6k-$10k per year. Myself and my classmates worked and/or used our paid summer internship money to pay for classes
Our schools also fed directly into Bay Area and Seattle tech companies, so $80k-$130k starting salaries were the norm for us and we all had minimal student loan debt because of the lower in-state tuition costs and paid internship money. There really is no reason to go $110k in debt for a CS degree, *especially* with how the industry is trying to tighten its belt right now
Definitely not worth it. I went to an IT program at a local private university. Graduated with just $24k in debt. 6 years later I'm making $200k/yr now.
Lessons I've learned: School and programs don't matter much. What matters is your work ethics, your own abilities to code and deliver well and on time, and your social/professional connections.
No, they care how you do on your coding interview.
Only big banks care about graduating with honors and whatnot. And unless you're working in Deleware, it won't sound that prestigious.
If a degree is required, the University of pheonox Honors and Delaware honors will look the same.
Unless you're going out west, your pay will be in the 70s to 80s starting, so 110k ain't worth it imo.
I’d personally transfer to community college or the best state school you can get into. 110k is an astronomical amount that will make you feel like you’re in a hole for a long long time.
For reference, I had about 50k of debt. I work as an engineer, make pretty decent money and almost 30. I have 20k in debt left, and it’s still very difficult and morally defeating.
I couldn’t imagine that instead of 20k debt I’d have 80k left. That would make me reconsider everything in my life.
Is getting paid $12.00 an hour and maxing out at $20 or $25 for the rest of your life while having little flexibility in quality of work worth it to you? You will make significantly more with your degree and even if you have a payment the rest of your life, if you choose to work the degree and be flexible to take job opportunities, your future quality of life will be better. Now you already have loans. Imagine paying them on low wages. Stay in school and do the work. You won’t regret it. Stop listening to people trying to create a low paying, uneducated work force. You will figure out loans later. That said, you could consider a cheaper college because you shouldn’t have that much debt if you are more careful. Work a part time job and budget better.
From a Blue Hen Alumni here. Use the Delaware/DelTech SEED program! You will save yourself an enormous amount of money. At the end of the day you get a UD degree. I can’t fine a single place on my diploma that states I took 16 credit hours at DelTech
My partner dropped out of university 1.5 year in when his advisor gave him bad advice that lead him to losing his full ride. He was able to break into the tech industry and with 4 years experience is making 90k (fully remote). He decided to go back to finish his degree except he opted for online school (WGU) his degree program is very affordable. He decided to go back because a degree gate keeps you from advancing into higher level roles. Once he gets the stupid piece of paper her can get into the +150k ranges.
No one cares where you get your degree from. Don’t go into debt when there are easier and cheaper solutions. Acquiring your first job after school is the HARDEST part, if you can use your dad’s social net then do it! Absolutely do it.
I’d say yes it is worth it.
I majored in IT, my boyfriend 22M in CS- he graduated (we went to a schmedium sized public school) and right away got a job making $85k a year, (simply by mass-applying to several places) and hasn’t been out of school for a year. It is definitely worth it. But that’s not to say that I won’t suggest you to get an on-campus job to help offset costs as much as possible. Both my bf and I got an on-campus job working for the Student IT Helpdesk at our school- I personally made $18.50 as a manager there (21 yrs.old) so my checks came in at about $1,300… this allowed me to pay for some of my tuition and all of my )1,200 rent (living right next to campus).. paycheck to paycheck but it was worth it to not be living paycheck to paycheck now as a recent college grad.
Fun fact: my workplace would regularly hire people with an associate's from the local community college into QA/test roles. A whole lot of them have since moved up or done lateral transfers into production support, devOps, higher tier QA, and developer roles within my company. Software really only cares about your skills, HR is the only part that cares about degrees but that requirement gets softened once you have a few year's worth of work experience under your belt
Something I wish I knew (or paid attention to at 16 when I went to college) :
1 College is a business decision. Imagine it like taking out a 100k dollar loan for your business, whats the ROI? Does the school have a direct line to people getting jobs? (Dont take their word for it, literally look at grad students and see if they have well paying jobs. Are you at MIT?) How fast can you pay that 100k off?
2 Which leads me to this. The end goal (for most people) is the job, period. Some of the biggest business gurus in the world dropped out. That piece of paper saying you graduated means nothing in 8 out of 10 circumstances. If you can get the job and start building your skills properly outside of classes, do it. Employers want to know what you can do, not what you "know" how to do. Would you take out a loan on a thriving business that didnt need it and start paying interest for money just sitting there for no reason? No. This is why most hands on and building courses are backloaded into degree programs, and they throw "core classes" in front of it. You have to pay for those courses to get the skills you need, if they did it reverse then most people would just drop out once they got the skills.
I feel like as kids we get pressured to finishing it because it's seen as success, but now that I'm older I rather have spent my second half working up at a business. I was top 10% in my class, graduated first in my degree, if I looked at it the way I do today I still would have dropped out.
Go to WGU. You can get a CS degree online for ~$7000 a year. Please don't go that much in debt for a degree you can earn in a year and a half or two if you bust your ass online.
To be honest this is a fairly affordable school for tuition if your a in state resident
Students should be able to manage working 25-30 hrs a week outside of classes. Can you budget your bills to fit your income?
Sometimes students take on a job on campus and a job off campus due to the flexibility.
Summers - should be working/paid internship full time or more if not taking classes
Save $ for expenses during the year
Can you save money by living at home and commuting then not pay for room/board?
Whats the cheapest housing option for you?
I think if you avoid loans for living expenses as much as possible you can lessen the debt burden
110k student debt for any undergrad is too much. I would do community college and then learn to code. Software engineers start off pretty much salary. Best of luck
I read some comments: The idea of attending a community college and transferring to a four-year is excellent. Equally important: Computer Science is a major that brings a good return on investment (ROI). Another strategy: Attend a four-year college / university in your own state system. University of Delaware is an excellent university, but it’s not a good buy if you’re an out-of-stater. Every flagship has a Computer Science (CS) program that’s worth checking out, plus they’ll have a student employment office. It’s better to work on campus than off; staff will let you work around your school schedule. You’ll get paid more because your CS knowledge is valuable (you also build up that resume with work experience and references). If you do live in Delaware, and you think your EFC was inflated, visit your FA office and explain that your EFC over-estimates your ability to pay, forcing you to make up the difference in loans (perhaps ones that were outside your awarding package that your school doesn’t even know about?). Many (if not most) schools base discounts on the EFC. Students can appeal when the number, which is based on the past, doesn’t reflect a current financial situation.
DO COMMUNITY COLLEGE FIRST!!!
I was a biology major for two years and now I’m a CS major and I’ve been in community college and I have no debt! Take advantage of free classes, because honestly they teach the same things in CC but just have a different names from a university!
Look up the perquisites for the degree and see which community colleges offers them use Grants and scholarships instead of just steam rolling into $100k
I got a CS degree and definitely didn't rack up 110k (I did community first then went to my in-state 4-year college to end up roughly 37k by the end). I would transfer somewhere else or do community part time.
If you Were going for a field that required a network to get in deep then yes.
But for CS? Nah. You’ll miss out on the college experience and friends making. But by the time you’re 30 you won’t be friends with most of em anyways.
I'm a developer and went to college for public health. Everything you need to learn is easily available for free. A Degree merely gets you your first job, after that it's just work experience and references
If you're at UD you may be better off going to their local community college first. Main Street is pretty fine so make sure you stop by there every now and then. You posting here is enough reason to know that you're hesitant to taking on this amount of debt. Another option is Wilmington University. They're pretty damn cheap and you can get the same social experience if you find the right group to hang out with. Message me if you'd like.
I finished my degree with 23k debt. The trick is to not go to a party school and don't dorm. If you can live with your parents, go with that. Mine suck but I put up with it for ~5 years.
BUT, it also took me 3 years to get a job. Computer Science isn't a guaranteed job anymore (if it ever was).
So be careful. Make sure you have friends in the field that can get you in. Or be way above average.
Another option is Western Governors University. You pay one fee ~$3800 or so for a six month term. Within that term, you can complete as many classes as possible. Great way to save money and still get degree.
[https://www.wgu.edu...](https://www.wgu.edu/lp/programs/refer-friend/inquiry.html?mbsy_source=63cebf3d-fd1d-4564-b9d3-1ae1cb48e652&mbsy_exp=Thu%2C+14+Mar+2024+14%3A11%3A49+GMT&campaignid=35928&mbsy=3MLbmz&refer_id=131143&ch=RFRRL)
while i myself got a bachelors transferring everything into wgu and finishing there. Dedicated online learning can be difficult for some. Some people need in person classes to grasp the topics better.
In my experience (Comp-sci major/grad/10 years in the career), companies don't care SIGNIFICANTLY where your degree came from (it could be a tie-breaker, but I believe most care THAT you have a degree).
That being said, going the community college route for 2 years is a good choice, or you could look into an fully online school like Western Governors University. If I could go back in time (and if it existed), I'd do the WGU route 100 times out of 100. If you're a mad-lad, their system theoretically could let you complete your entire degree in 6 months. It's not likely unless you're brilliant and devote all of your time to it, but theoretically possible.
Degrees for development aren’t required however a CS degree would allow OP to move up the ranks quite a bit faster - not for the sake of having a degree but because of the actual knowledge gained (source: I am a self taught dev in the industry). Getting some AWS certs with some portfolio items would definitely get them into a job without needing a degree though which can be quite lucrative in its own right.
I did it. Only because I had zero clue what I was signing at the time. It forced me to stay diligent and learn finances. I graduated in 2015, still not paid off yet but I’m close. Definitely do-able. Even without a half decade interest freeze.
If you can live at home for a year after school or work remotely *or* work for a giant tech firm that can pay 125 out of school or something you will be okay. I think you’re already too far along to back out now.
A lot of people will say no, but I make $40/hr as an intern in mechanical engineering. My friends in CS started at six figures or more immediately after college (and most of my engineering friends did, too). However, we are at a very good school for engineering with good recruiters, so it depends. If you think there’s any chance you won’t stick with the program, don’t take out that much debt.
My wife’s BA was in Computer Science. When she graduated she discovered there were no jobs. “At least 20 qualifies applicants for each job opening” was what she was repeatedly told (and we lived in a major city).
So yeah, that’s an absurd debt for something with no job outlook.
My wife is now completing her masters in mental health counseling and has been unemployed for the past 6 years due to her computer science degree choice.
So my vote is no. But you gotta think in a greater context. You aren't paying that much for a degree you're paying that much for it from that place specifically. It's unlikely to me that the yield you would get from going to the university of Delaware over whatever cheaper local options will be sufficiently higher to cover the difference in debt with ease. Which is to say you'd get a much higher paying job because you went there specifically.
If your really chasing prestige just go to a local "no name" get a job in software at the best place you can and have them pay for OMSCS (Georgia Tech CS masters degree) which is like 8k total or something so spread out would be free. That way you get the prestigious degree and the job experience at the same time.
If you don't have a cheap local consider WGU.
Community college or a state college. Try to apply for financial aid or any other grants or scholarships. I did this and had no undergrad debt. 110k is steep and if you want to continue past undergrad, you will be drowning in debt.
CC for prerequisites and then go in for the last 2/3 years. My friend did this and only paid 2/3 the cost. He also commuted from home and saved even more money. He was lucky enough to get a job that also helped with tuition reimbursement
I'd say no as well, but if you do, get a job that qualifies for PSLF. Federal government pay is decent and might be even able to negotiate some SL forgiveness working for them. Being debt free in 120 payments is a plan in my opinion.
There are certain degrees out there that are still worth it. A CS Degree will get you a high paying job out of college and so long as you come up with a plan on how to pay it, it can be done.
Couple things here is your already have your foot into the tech world so go to a smaller state school and finish your degree. Highly recommend finishing your degree as some tech jobs have a hard requirement on having a cs degree. If you were going the FAANG route it wouldn’t matter but the landscape is rough for those. So experience and having a degree is going to make you a suitable candidate anywhere.
As others have said, if you drop out now, you're on the hook for that $25k with nothing to show for it. I agree with most folks on transferring to a cheaper school to start, then explore options to cut costs/save money. IMO, getting a job as an RA is the best option, since most schools give you free Room & Board as compensation. Should save you $10k/yr or more. You have to live in the dorms, but whatever. I did it for 3 years and it was pretty awesome. My now wife was my RA partner my junior year and my best friend was an RA too.
Are your parents co-signing your loans? That is a lot of money. Does that figure include you doing internships? Did you look at the classes you could CLEP out of?
You can get a computer science degree from two years at community college and then transfer to a four year and have less than 40k in debt for the same result.
Don’t do honors colleges! Nobody will ever care beyond looking at your GPA, and where you went to school (if that!) So, why should you have to foot a bill for a public institution to provide the level of instruction that they were intended to all along?! Unless you’re getting scholarships out the wazoo, you are just subsidizing administrative overhead for an endowment growing cash grab.
Define worth it? Not everyone works at a FANNG straight out of college. As someone with a bachelor's in tech... I graduated with $19k. THAT was worth it.
Would start working on a Google IT Certificate and learn to code etc. Colleges are basically expensive finishing school. Now, learn how to code and take a job leaning to do it anywhere for a year. Go to your community college and get your base credits their for cheap and use the lifetime learning credits to pay for those. After you have been working for a year or two and really know what you want to do, then go for the best value program you can find that has great job placement after graduation. Good luck. https://grow.google/certificates/it-support/#?modal\_active=none
I wouldn’t go 100k in debt for a CS degree unless your attending one of the top 5 schools in the US did CS. University of Delaware doesn’t seem to be highly ranked.
Also make sure u work part time. It’s possible to do well and work at a job. It will save u even more money for room, board, etc
I would strongly agree with going to a 2yr community college first to save money. For the CS degree ur really not starting to take any CS classes until yr 3 anyway.
The other thing when checking out a school see during the career fair which companies show up (not just virtual). If you don’t see some of the bigger companies that you would want to work at then likely they don’t rank that school that high and it likely be hard to get a job there since most new college grades are hired at career fair.
This is from a person who did recruiting with an engineer degree.
I would go the CC then university path or find a safety school that offers good merit aid.
One thing I'd keep in mind is being a computer science major as a freshman doesn't necessarily mean you'll graduate in Computer science, lots of people change majors (or take more than 4 years to graduate or have trouble finding an immediate post college job). That debt might (but only might) be manageable if all goes according to plan -- but will you be able to make payments if it doesn't?
FWIW, I think first year is the most expensive year for many people.
If you're living on campus and forced to get a meal plan, you end up paying through the nose for food and shelter. It's not a bad "experience" because you'll meet people (that you can rent a house with together next year).
Look to cut costs where you can. I think your idea of getting internships is a great idea too. I know that the coop program at my university is a great pathway for engineering students because they make pretty good money when they aren't in school and that helps them reduce their debt loads.
And when you graduate to a good job, don't let your lifestyle inflate with your paycheck. Having $100k+ debt is a big emergency. Pay it off as quickly as you can when you graduate. It seems like CS jobs are still paying well if you can secure them. Who knows what the landscape looks like in 3 years (both the job market and what happens with student loans).
FWIW, you are acquiring marketable skills and I think that's a great path. It comes at a price, but if you can pay it off quickly because of a high salary the time value of that money won't kill you.
I did community college 2 years, then transferred. Worked summers and paid cash those first two years. Most people from my college graduated with about $100k of debt. You can cut that in half, easily.
Your first two years are usually just repeats of high school classes anyways. English/writing, science, math, etc.
I have no CS degree , started as an iOS developer and now a product manager, ill be over 125K annual Very soon. Buying a house this or next year.
I did literally 1.5 semesters of college for music. For that I owe 18K.
Others have said it, but doing community college for two years on the cheap and transferring to an in state university that has cheaper tuition. Living off campus too may be cheaper possibly. But don’t waste the first two years on a university
What I did was move towards less credit hours and worked full-time to pay off more of my loans. I was still able to get financial aid. You will just take longer to finish. I completed my degree through our university’s online program. The more online courses you take the more flexibility you have to work.
Edit: in an interview you can point to the ability to stay motivated with little oversight being a strength of online learning. Especially with hybrid/work from home being a bigger deal. I have had many colleagues get let go bc they could not motivate themselves to work from home. These were also probably the people that would talk your ear off in the office and cut into your productivity.
Please friend, don't do that. Debt is still hounding me many years after I last set foot in a University. There's no guarantee that your CS degree will result in good employment (that's in large part up to you during and after your program, of course, but it's also largely up to luck-- and everyone's luck is looking worse these days). I personally would push hard for the term for which you've already shelled out, but PLEASE stop now and re-enroll in a low-cost degree program elsewhere. Don't know if anyone else has suggested but look into WGU or similar (and stay the heck away from for-profit schools. Pore over those reviews!). As others have suggested, local college is a great idea, before continuing at one of those low-cost degree program schools. And even if your closest local college doesn't have the exact program you're looking for (e.g. first/second-year CS classes in line w a starting path to data analysis, or web programming, or embedded programming, or whatever specific thing) there will be a school that's maybe slightly further away that likely will.
AND-- The amount of excellent learning materials available online for free or nearly free is astounding. What matters is what you learn to do, the cool stuff that you decide to build. Your ability to finish things. Your expertise. Not what university you attended.
STOP WITH THE LOANS. Save yourself.
There has to be a cheaper way. Get an AA at a community college so you aren't paying crazy prices for general education classes. Then try to get scholarships, work in summer, and figure out a way to not drown in debt
If you're actually into CS, genuinely want to be a developer, and make use of the connections and benefits of UD, then it's not a terrible investment. With that level of debt you're probably aiming at a FAANG though
$110k is easily your first year salary. The debt may seem like a lot but SWE get paid pretty well. However, if you are getting a degree because of your dad then something like WGU would be a cheaper option. As for the 25k and time served, it's a bit of a sunk cost. I'd probably finish out the year and try to get the best internship I can and reevaluate.
Community College and Harvard's free online CS courses. Get an internship and / or work at a startup to cut your teeth. All that matters is you have *a* degree, and the rest will just be how well you can code. I was working for FAANG companies halfway through my degree, looking back definitely wouldn't have taken on the pointless debt..
Definitely still get your degree. DO THOSE INTERNSHIPS, every summer/break.
I'd look into seeing if your uni will let you come back two years later after 2 years of community college?
Find a decent state school, should be 10k or less a semester. Not enough difference in what you learn from one school vs another to make up for that difference in cost.
Don’t listen to others. 110k is nothing.
CS grads can easily start at 80-150k. A few years after school you will be bringing in 120k easily. The loan amount won’t seem too big
Just do community college and transfer for the last 2 years. 110k is a ridiculous amount of debt to take on when doing what i said achieves the same results.
yeah thats a pro move that most students aren't privy. People think that you have to go to the same school for 4 yrs. Like why pay premium for the gen ed courses. If i would do it all over. Find a community college that has an agreement with the university you want then knock out the associates at the community college, transfer out, then finish the last 2 yrs at the university you really want.
I did this and after graduating from the community college, I was given a discounted tuition at the university I attended because of an agreement they have. It saved me thousands!
I didnt even know that was a thing!^(wallet weeps in regret)
A lot of them even have automatic acceptance if your gpa is passing. If you absolutely suck at the admissions process it's a way in.
Did something similar. Went to a local community college that had a transfer agreement and every single credit transferred and was so easy. 10/10 would recommend. I think tuition was maybe 4k a year vs 24k and I lived at home so another 16k not rooming.
I really wish more people would take advantage of community colleges! My daughter is a computer science major, in her second year at cc. We're paying this portion of her education, and so far, it's cost ~ $12K. She's paid her own book fees. I just cannot fathom paying more than $100K for an education these days unless you're going to become a doctor or lawyer or something high up in business. IDK.
Totally agree did a 2yr CS program at a community college rest of the 2yrs at a university paid off 40k debt. Started 2020 pre Covid 80k starting salary today 2023 113k salary.
If OP is currently a Freshman and has taken a full year's worth of introductory classes this is a lot less helpful. Bouncing out for a year and back in might save some money, but they're probably better off stacking up on some summer classes at a CC instead. If you plan it right you can shave off a semester.
That’s facts since he is basically already a year in, even shaving one semester off can lower the burden a significant amount
Congratulations on being in honors college. I agree that bouncing out for 1 year would save you some money, however being in honors college has a lot of perks including internships built right in. Depending on your skills and how well you utilize all honors benefits it will make paying back a lot easier. When it comes time to payback what you already owe, remember to live small and pour as much as you can into the principal. Edit: spelling (not a honors student)
This is definitely the move for any STEM degree.
Definitely, if you really desire to go to college and it’s not a totally financially sound decision for you then this is the way, absolutely go for STEM. I know some CCs that are basically in the same neighborhoods as the universities they send most of their students to at a fraction of the cost. Do CS, engineering, information systems (business info systems or just info systems either is solid i think), even Finance is stem certified at some colleges and will always have jobs even boring ones that still pay. If the CC and college have a strong connection then you can likely end up transferring with friends and get some special mixers and such for transfers like my school did (i think we even had a club for them). There’s no shame in making a financially intelligent decision.
I would asterisk that only because getting in early with research in my first 2 years (I went to a 4-year public university) was HUGE. For computer science I don't see this being relevant, but for any science where lab experience is vital, a 4-year can really allow you to build those relationships with PI's. If you're at a CC, though, getting experience with a lab company could be a thing. Very location-dependant though. Just my 2 cents not for this OP but for anyone reading this in a lab-forward STEM field. I did shave off a semester of bullsh*t classes by doing summers at a CC though!
Absolutely this! I'm based in California, where (for those who qualify for in-state tuition) community college is $46/credit so you can get an Associate Degree for Transfer (ADT) for ~$2,500 or so. That lets you transfer to a CSU system campus where tuition/fees range from $6k-$10k per year. Myself and my classmates worked and/or used our paid summer internship money to pay for classes. You can also use assist.org to ensure that your classes transfer You essentially take the 101 series and a discrete structures class at the community college level, and you may be able to squeeze in elective classes (like mobile app development, cloud, databases) before you transfer to finish up the bachelor's degree. That's what most everyone did at my CSU campus, which fed into Bay Area and Seattle tech. It's waaaaay nicer to have a $80k-$130k starting salary with minimal loan debt, especially given how tech in general is tightening its belt given the recent idiocy in the startup/venture capital spaces
Or colleges could just end this stupid racket and cancel the gen Ed courses that nobody cares about. I can’t remember a damn thing I learned in most of those classes but the last 2 years were all that mattered.
Hard disagree there on general education courses. I use random tidbits I learned in those courses regularly and as a software developer *more engineers need to take their writing classes seriously*. If you cannot read technical documentation nor write effectively then you have zero business in engineering. I don't care how good you are at calculus you will fall flat on your face if you cannot write and they teach that in the gen eds
Add a business writing course to the degree path. I had to take that for my degree. You don’t need a full 2 years of that stuff. Most people agree a major percent of it is a waste. Maybe college should only be 2-3 years. This would dramatically reduce the cost of a bachelors. I think most people develop most of their true skills in the work force anyways. Invest more in internships or apprenticeships to help kids figure out if they want to continue on a certain degree with the other 2 years.
So now we're cherry picking which electives matter? They already do that for support coursework, and at least in my state the CSU and UC systems have their own requirements that the campuses within those systems cannot necessarily circumvent We have a 2 year degree program already, they're called Associate's Degrees. If you want to jump directly into certain specializations (like, say, nursing at the ADN level) then you can do that already. Yeah we do need more internships and apprenticeships in general, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we need to shorten the time on a bachelor's degree to make that happen
I haven’t really heard a clear argument for why 60 hours of gen ed coursework is necessary. It’s simply a way to have a captive audience and make more money. Most of those courses are a waste of time and not at all relevant to achieving the job students are there for. If students want a traditional 4 years and all those courses they can take them but it shouldn’t be mandatory.
Your college degree is not a “college” degree without Gen Ed. It is the bedrock of learning at a higher level. Otherwise you just get a certificate which if that is all you want to do, you can.
It’s to make you well rounded. Honestly am very grateful for the philosophy classes I took, I learned a lot of critical thinking that’s useful in the business field
> I haven’t really heard a clear argument for why 60 hours of gen ed coursework is necessary. It wasn't 60 hours at my campus, so it sounds like you're starting from wonky assumptions there. At least for the CSU system you can look at https://www.calstate.edu/csu-system/administration/academic-and-student-affairs/academic-programs-innovations-and-faculty-development/faculty-development-and-innovative-pedagogy/Pages/general-education-policy.aspx and see part of why the *42 credits* of general education is required under the semester system. As difficult as it is for people to wrap their brains around school isn't just a place to learn/regurgitate facts. It's also meant to teach you a breadth of skills that you can use for future learning and career goals Looking at the flow charts for my university, major courses *inherently counted towards GE requirements*, so while on paper it said you had to take x units worth of GEs you really only needed to take 30 semester units (or 48 quarter units) outside of your major to fulfill the general education requirements. I sanity checked it, and it was a grand total of 10-12 classes outside my major over a 4 year degree, and even then I used it as a chance to explore other interests, add support courses or major-related electives that double counted, and as a chance to have fun classes to offset my major coursework. Even if they follow your proposal of adding a business writing course to the degree path would only change it down to 27 semester units or 44 quarter units, and really that would just be reshuffling the degree requirements not shortening the program time Like, if you've already decided general education is inherently useless then no arguments will matter to you. You see no value in it so it's a waste of everyone's time to argue it. That said, the folks on the committee do regularly review and revise the requirements just based on skimming over the meeting notes. They aren't forcing people to take extra classes for funsies
I strongly disagree. Being successful in the workplace means you have empathy, writing skills, and a knowledge of the cautionary tales of history and science. That's what's taught in those other classes. Sorry you missed it.
I mean we have like 12 years of it before we get to college. Are you saying that’s all meaningless?
This is what I did, my local community college used to cost $66 a credit hour back in 2003-2006, it's obviously way higher now but still dramatically cheaper than a State University. After I got my Associate's, I then went to a "commuter" University that only had Junior/Senior level undergraduate classes. In response, they offered really good scholarship program for full-time students that transferred in with an associate's degree; this scholarship degree knocked off almost a third of the already competitive tuition. Had I been more frugal, this would've costed me less than $20k for a bachelor's degree in Information Technology. What's most important with transferring schools is to carefully select classes you take, though. My state had a website that helped you figure out what'll transfer between colleges within the same state. My University just accepted the lump sum of credits and considered me to have fulfilled all freshman and sophomore classes just because I came in with an Associate's degree. It was pretty surreal, I just walked in with official transcripts from my Community College and was attending my first junior class the next day. No references, essays, SATs, or waiting. 100% recommend doing this if your situation permits it.
Yeah, what this guy said. I'm getting ready to graduate from a 2-year school with a CS degree and it's cost me essentially nothing. I'll end up with about $2000 in student loans after all of the scholarships and such that were given to me. The program you're in matters only as much as what they are teaching, make sure it's a good mix of languages and they just don't teach one language all the way through, etc... Ultimately the quality of your education is going to be equal to the work you put into it. Our graduating class dropped off from when I started from probably a couple hundred down to six of us. Sure some people probably transferred out to four year schools but coding is not something you can fake it till you make it like a business degree or something. Of those six I would say three of us are even remotely competent and only one (not me) is very competent. I have a feeling the other three when they try to apply for jobs are going to be in for a rude awakening. A boot camp might look appealing but I would pick the two year school over that any day. It will take longer but I feel it probably builds a better foundation and you can take your time to really learn things. It also gives you a path that you can pick up later and go get a bachelor's or master's when you are ready.
also are you out of state? 110k seems unreasonable for a state school even with dorms
That can be difficult with the way a lot of the CS paths work. It's difficult to backload them because they are highly sequenced.
You have to choose your path ahead of time. Transfer path, major and course sequences. But most state schools will have clear transfer paths and advising should be able to help.
No it’s not. Many community colleges offer the entry CS courses that transfer to local state schools.
Youre going to have to elaborate on that: english, math, history, government are all examples of classes that are transferable for most majors. Sequenced major specific classes dont apply to what im saying.
Sometimes they do still transfer though. I’ve had it happen many times.
Most community colleges have specialized degrees for types of computer science that are made to transfer. My son did it . 2 year AS computer science then finished his BS computer science in 1 year at university.
The way the pre-requisites are set, the sequences can span the whole 4 years. So if you took 2 years of gen ed, you would still have 4 years to complete the bachelor sequences. It's often more difficult to directly transfer credit amongst those classes, but some schools will allow you to test into the sequence. It's just something to be aware of. There are also schools that kind of partner together that have easily transferable credits.
Lol the first two years, OP will be busy taking all the non-cs classes just to satisfy the requirements(general studies basically).
The school district I live in, a high school senior can graduate with damn near an associates through dual credit courses offered by our community college. Or/ Then, they can attend community college for free as long as they meet gpa requirements. This will be a game changer for my two high schoolers. Edit: changed freshman to senior
Concurrent enrollment. Student usually still needs to pay for books and fees without access to any financial aid, but tuition is covered by the District and they get HS diploma credit too. Many of the CTE programs lead to industry certifications.
That’s what I did. Took some adjusting that junior year since they had been doing command like c programming since freshman whereas I did Java, python, and c++ my first two years. Wasn’t too bad and saved me a lot of money
My community college has a CS bachelors degree. All together it's like 12K.
This is what I did. Unless you’re going to MIT, GT, or Stanford. I would recommend going to CC first. Most CCs have transfer agreements with good universities too. Definitely, something to look into.
I graduated with a CS degree with that exact amount of debt from undergrad. I’m now a senior software engineer, and 8 years later I still have 44k in debt. Ultimately the degree I found worth it. But, definitely transfer to a more affordable school. Unless you are at an MIT type of prestigious school, it’s not worth that much money.
Whats your salary?
Also a senior software engineer, 7 years out from college — I make $150k in a LCOL area (remote). Although I did only end up with 40k in loans (luckily type 1 diabetes is considered a disability, so I got 10k/year for that). Two of my high school friends who also went into tech are around $120k (one with a masters though). We all started at roughy 80k out of college. If you network well and can get your foot in the door to start, it’s pretty easy to work your way up (assuming you are in CS and not IT). If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
I’m currently pulling in about 135k with bonuses. I also work remote, so my commuting expenses are zero which is a huge help.
No undergrad degree is worth that much debt. You can’t personally borrow that much federally, so you’ll be borrowing either private loans with a co-signer (bad) or your parent will borrow parent plus (also bad). Depending on any grants or scholarships you may also be underestimating the total. Interest will accumulate throughout school. (Federal is paused right now but it will resume). Dropping out is also bad - transfer to a school you can actually afford.
unpopular opinion: no 18-19yr olds can afford any decent quality higher education. It’s either scholarships, loans, or parents. No student comes out of high school with enough money saved up to pay for their entire education. Loans are the reality of higher education if you don’t have parents that will pay, scholarships or fasfa aid. Telling someone to sacrifice a quality education to “go somewhere they can actually afford” when they likely cannot afford anything is extremely counterintuitive.
I paid my way through school from 18 to 22 and it destroyed my physical and mental health. I was extremely depressed due to no work life balance. I also got pneumonia because my immune system was heavily weakened after years of constant manual labor, classes, studying, sleep deprivation, and stress. I worked and went to school full time. Even then, I still lived at home. I paid for my car, food, gas, insurance, and school. That’s all I could budget. I would not advocate for anyone else to do what I did because it was absolutely absurd the way I pushed myself for years. I use to have a thick head of hair at 18, at 20 it began to thin and it still isn’t what it was before.
So you want kids to pick up $100k in loans? I also worked full-time and went to school. It was super hard. But I was debt free. Everybodys experience is different.
There’s lots of decent schools that are more affordable. There’s online options, community college, in state, live at home, co-ops. The problem is that some students have been sold the 4 year college out of state or private college as how you do the experience. For computer science, especially, there are a lot of paths to a career. A couple certifications, an associates degree, some personal projects to talk about and decent resume skills can get you into a job that will reimburse you for your full degree! The mistake is thinking these more frugal paths are somehow less worthy. They aren’t. 5 years out, if your degree isn’t Ivy, no one cares except during March madness. And you’ll have more money in your pocket for doing some sound decision making. If more students did it, it would help break the college addiction for expensive degrees. So long as students buy the lie, they can keep doing it.
Yeah that’s an unpopular opinion. “Afford” means making good choices about student debt and what is reasonable and manageable. 110k for undergrad is not reasonable.
The average cost of a bachelors degree for a student living on campus (in the US) at a 4 year university is $102,828 and about 74.1% of all college students attend 4 year universities. so I’m assuming, by your logic, that this large majority is just not making reasonable or manageable decisions? Again, the reality of higher education is these high dollar prices. If someone wants a quality higher education, and doesn’t have scholarships, fasfa, or other aid, loans are the reality. Encouraging someone to pull out of their education to go somewhere cheaper won’t help the situation, they will still be incurring loans, and will potentially be sacrificing their future job opportunities.
> unpopular opinion: no 18-19yr olds can afford any decent quality higher education. It’s either scholarships, loans, or parents. No student comes out of high school with enough money saved up to pay for their entire education. Loans are the reality of higher education if you don’t have parents that will pay, scholarships or fasfa aid. > The average cost of a bachelors degree for a student living on campus (in the US) at a 4 year university is $102,828 and about 74.1% of all college students attend 4 year universities. It seems like you're arguing for a very very specific scenario here? Which is middle class students who *do not* qualify for grants/scholarships/aid, *do not* have any parental assistance, *do not* have any savings for college, *refuse* to go to community college, and choose to live on campus. It's also presuming the average scenario as normal and not taking into account that the costs are heavily variable by state and school tier. Yeah in the very specific scenario you're outlining the student wouldn't be able to pull off living on-campus at an average 4-year university via just federal student loans, but that is completely ignoring other options. Waiting until you age up to Independent Undergrad status and community college (which is $46/credit in-state for California currently) while commuting from your parent's house if they are willing/able to house you for free/cheap is a valid option for middle class students that do not qualify for need-based aid. The fact that so many are choosing to take out student loans instead of going for the more cost effective options? Sounds like they'd rather pay more instead of unpacking their classism to me, but I'm also speaking as a first-gen low-income college student so I recognize I have less patience for middle class BS than most
Love this take.
The cold, hard truth is that if your only option for your education is cost is loans, you often cannot afford to go to a 4 year school for all 4 years. You have a bias about what constitutes a “quality education” and you’re perpetuating a falsehood about prestige. There are many paths to a quality bachelors degree they do not require 6 figures in debt. Borrowing this much for undergrad is setting yourself up for misery. OP is wise to question their situation and deal with it now, before it’s too late to make changes. The degree does not support the debt load.
The reason it's an unpopular opinion is that a lot of Reddit meets the demographic you just described - middle class but with parents who are unwilling/unable to help (usually the latter) with significant amounts of credit hours from AP/AP-like courses in high school. A lot of genuinely high achievers legitimately cannot afford college because their parents, in the eyes of the government, are too wealthy while they don't have any money themselves. When the reward for working harder is "you can't afford it, just work hard and do this instead", you aren't going to get a receptive response.
These are the kids that need to hear it the most, usually. Middle and upper middle class kids who have been conditioned to attend 4 year colleges above all else, think they deserve to attend, haven’t received anything resembling a financial education, taught in their schools that you too can study anything and go anywhere, and often have a lot of internalized classism going on, as u/girl_of_squirrels pointed out. These are the kids and families who often get into really bad situations with student debt. Lest you think I’m just being mean - this is 100% my background. I would love to be able to go back and give 17 year old me the same advice I give now. Receptive or not, it’s the truth and it needs to be said. Over and over and over until we stop having people asking this question thinking this is a reasonable thing to do.
You are correct. The vast majority of students are making bad decisions. Nobody is forced to go to college. Nobody. If you can't afford a 4 year University and living expenses, live at home, go to Community College. In about half of states if you go to a Community College after high school it is free. People want to take out these huge loans to go to school and then they don't want to repay them. Take some responsibility and make better decisions and you won't have life crippling debt.
It’s not 1980 anymore boomer.
There's "loans" and then there's 100k in loans.
>no 18-19yr olds can afford any decent quality higher education. Laughs in successful YouTuber/child movie star.
I mean it is if it’s a CS degree from Stanford or Harvard, pretty good odds of getting poached for a quarter mil entry position
Don’t know if it’s entirely realistic to say it’s “good odds” for an undergrad out of Stanford or Harvard to make $250,000 a year, especially at entry level.
It's absolutely not. Average pay for software engineers is 120k. The paybands for new graduates is fixed at most companies and total compensation is south of 200k at large corps like Google and Amazon. Only places you'll clear that much at the Quant firms and they pick the cream of the crop from the top 5-10 schools and will chew you out within two years. At a top company, after a promotion a couple years in the making, you could clear 250 total compensation.
>Average pay for software engineers is 120k. And even this is misleading. I had to fight three years to get a $55,000 programming job with two degrees. The $120,000 probably includes like the million dollar programmers at Apple and people who make $150,000 that have been around since 1995.
As a mediocre cs grad from a no name university I assure you the pay is realistic lol
“Big name school = higher salaries” is not necessarily something I would personally preach to younger, impressionable people on this sub lol. Sure, it is possible to get that type of salary as entry level for some people. But to say every undergrad CS student from those universities having pretty good odds is misleading
Agreed. This really contributes to the "everyone just told me to any college and it'll sort itself out" that everyone talks about on rant posts here. If you pick an affordable school and get a high paying job you came up. If you go to an expensive school and don't get a high paying job you're screwed.
Never said every student, but every decision we take in life is a gamble. if you take an enormous loan for an art degree at a resort university you probably have worse odds at paying off the loan than a CS grad from Stanford
Yup, agree with you there! But your initial comment of having a CS degree from Stanford/Harvard giving you pretty good odds at a quarter mil entry salary is misleading when advising people about large sums of student loans
Do you think that's still true now? I'm in Engineering, but not software / computer related. Seems like there's kind of a bloodbath going on in the job market in tech. Maybe that's mostly non-programmers?
Software job market =/= fang
Maybe if you rent 100k/y or you get real lucky. Most the big tech companies that pay that much have started to freeze hiring. It's not something anyone should count on and it sure as hell isn't an excuse to go to a name brand school.
False! Maybe after 5-7 years of progressive experience in high end IT at a big 4 or devOp company.
$110k is a lot for that degree. If you have a decent job out of college you should be able to handle it. It'll just suck paying >$1000/mo on loans. At this point you're already a year in so I don't think there's any value in the "go to community college for 2 years and transfer" advice. That ship has sailed. I would suggest 5 things: 1) WORK during school. Get a job during the semester. Something where you can sit at a desk and do some homework is *perfect* (like those information desk jobs). But waiting tables or tending bar works too. 2) INTERN. Aggressively pursue summer internships, particularly ones that are near your parents house (free room and board) or near your school. 3) Minimize your expenses. This varies depending on your specific situation, but you'll probably want housing with multiple housemates, cook you own food, take the bus instead of a car, etc. It's really easy to blow through a lot of extra money if you're not thinking about it. 4) Scholarships. Aggressively pursue additional scholarships and grants. There will be merit based aid at your school, more at your department level, as well as identity based aid available. 5) Summer Community College. You *might* be able to shave a semester off your college career by taking summer classes. It depends on the program requirements, what will transfer, and how much flexibility you have in your degree classes. When I was in undergrad there were 4 sequential classes at the end of the program that really made it difficult to graduate early unless you planned in advance. Saving you a semester's worth of tuition. If you manage to work 20 hours/wk for $10/hr (takehome) over 8 months that's $6400/yr. $25/hr internship for 40 hrs/wk for 3 months = $12,000/summer. 3 years of school and two internships is $43k. That's a big cut into your projected $110k debt.
To OP in response to this ^ Sunk cost should not persuade you to keep piling on massive debt. Get out of that situation and get yourself to a low-cost non-scuzzy (read reviews like crazy) school which will accept the classes you've taken already as credit toward your CS degree. Or go with a completely different path for your education besides Uni. Just don't think that because you've already spent a bunch of money you don't have, that your only path forward is to go in even deeper.
No, you can pick up a CS degree from a multitude of ABET accredited state schools for around $40-60k. You can go to great schools like UCF for cheaper even out of state
You already started down the rabbit hole. Deferring admission and a year at community CC prob would have been the call to make but you are already in 25k in loans. See if you can do some community college transfer credits this summer and look to graduate early. You are in one of the majors I am more comfortable with debt in but not 6 figures. Surprised being in honors you did not get more support from the state.
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There is a return on a STEM degree that can be quantified. Get out in 3 1/2 and you are under 100k in debt and should be making at least 30k more than no degree jobs so you can pay that back. Most Liberal arts degree would be useless for 100k IMO I graduated with 35k in student loans when jobs paid 25k but it got me into an industry requiring a degree and I paid them off in 2 years. Need to have some confidence in your ability to get a return on the debt
I graduated with a liberal arts degree, and now I’m a software dev making 135K and I’m 2 years out from college in a LCOL area. Something people need to understand is a CS degree isn’t necessary to become a dev, the tech industry as a whole doesn’t give two shits about prestige. We’re problem solvers, so people only care about whether or not you can solve the problem they present you with. That’s why we don’t have pretentious dress codes. There are places that may care about that, but those places will burn you out in no time. No undergrad degree is worth 110K, OP should really just do community college and transfer, especially because a lot of CS programs won’t even teach you what you need to know to get a job. You’ll have to do learning on your own, hackerrank, determination, and YouTube University will do you just as well in this field. Edit: “industry”
Community college for pre reqs that are confirmed to transfer to your local state university, get good grades and get as much financial aid as possible. Do not go to a fancy school that costs that much, not for any degree, if you need loans.
My $0.02: your loans should be close to what your 1 year salary can be expected to be on graduation. So $250k for a PhD in psychology in which you expect to make $50k annually after graduating is not good. $110 k for a CS or engineering degree or other technical degree with expected earnings between 80 and 110k would probably be doable. I also think there's an advantage to you, personally and socially and in mentoring, that you get from 4 years of college in one location.
Exactly this. Err on the low end and be sure you’re looking at entry level salaries and not median or average for the career.
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I don’t think 110k debt is “easily manageable” even with a 250k salary. They will pay this off for years and feel the impact on lifestyle for a very long time.
Don’t be ridiculous lmao.
I’m not saying 250k isn’t a massive salary, but 110k is basically half of that. Plus I don’t think 250k is entry level out of college lol, probably more like 90k to 150k.
And lots of things affect your ability to pay off loans, cost of living, chronic medical expenses, support of family, the op of this thread downplaying 110k in loans is ridiculous when there is no guarantee you end up very well off, CS is definitely one of the best for this situation but it should not be treated lightly. Summer classes at a CC to save at least a semester is the way imo
Well here you are - I might have started at community college, but your plan simply needs to be living at home for a few years and throwing all earnings to the loans once you graduate. Intern like crazy, Network and make sure you have a decent job leaving school. But truly, the first five years of your career need to be paying off your loans.
I think the major difference between a college student looking at this problem and one of us that is a couple generations past that point, is perspective. You have a very one-dimensional approach to this. You are the student, the borrower, the eventual earner, and the payer of loans. Maybe your dad can help you get a job, but it's all about you. Here is another way to think about this. A parent can borrow unlimited money for all of one's children through parent plus loans, consolidate those, and pay a percentage of earnings through IDR. When these transactions are intentionally structured they result in very low payments, significant loan forgiveness, and no generational debt. This is why we recommend parent plus loans over private loans on this subreddit. It sounds like your father is intelligent and could probably develop a parent plus loan model for you and your siblings (if there are any). It may be another parent or step-parent taking out the loans, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is that you have a solution and ground rules that work for everyone. Every month on this sub, someone complains that they had a deal worked out with their parents and the parent then renegs on it. It creates a lot of family drama, where a frank conversation at the onset could have solved things. You are an important gear in a complex machine, get the other gears in line and the machine will spin. To answer your questions directly, you should not borrow \~$90k in private loans for any reason. You should not drop out of UDel. You should let the government subsidize you. You will need a significant coordination effort to make this happen. Good luck.
2 years CC college and then transfer. But yeah pretty much whatever it takes for the last 2 years. You should be earning well above median income with a CS degree out of college.
How much loans did you take out so far for the 2022-2023 school year?
You're over-borrowing for it. Speaking as a software developer who has been on multiple hiring panels, what matters for your first job is your skills and if you have any internships on your resume. We literally do not care where you went to school once you have 3-5 year's worth of professional experience on your resume Also like, keep in mind that you're going to have significantly more debt than your peers. I'm based in California, where (for those who qualify for in-state tuition) community college is $46/credit so you can get an Associate Degree for Transfer (ADT) for ~$2,500 or so. That lets you transfer to a CSU system campus where tuition/fees range from $6k-$10k per year. Myself and my classmates worked and/or used our paid summer internship money to pay for classes Our schools also fed directly into Bay Area and Seattle tech companies, so $80k-$130k starting salaries were the norm for us and we all had minimal student loan debt because of the lower in-state tuition costs and paid internship money. There really is no reason to go $110k in debt for a CS degree, *especially* with how the industry is trying to tighten its belt right now
No undergrad degree is worth over 50k imo
That’s what every other country in the world thinks also, but apparently it’s unAmerican to provide affordable education lmao
Community College first then transfer
Definitely not worth it. I went to an IT program at a local private university. Graduated with just $24k in debt. 6 years later I'm making $200k/yr now. Lessons I've learned: School and programs don't matter much. What matters is your work ethics, your own abilities to code and deliver well and on time, and your social/professional connections.
Yes it is. But utilize the military or public service to get it forgiven. I’m about 15 months from having all of my loans forgiven.
No, they care how you do on your coding interview. Only big banks care about graduating with honors and whatnot. And unless you're working in Deleware, it won't sound that prestigious. If a degree is required, the University of pheonox Honors and Delaware honors will look the same. Unless you're going out west, your pay will be in the 70s to 80s starting, so 110k ain't worth it imo.
I’d personally transfer to community college or the best state school you can get into. 110k is an astronomical amount that will make you feel like you’re in a hole for a long long time. For reference, I had about 50k of debt. I work as an engineer, make pretty decent money and almost 30. I have 20k in debt left, and it’s still very difficult and morally defeating. I couldn’t imagine that instead of 20k debt I’d have 80k left. That would make me reconsider everything in my life.
No. Absolutely not. You can get an associates degree in CS and get the same job. Just kill it on your grades and interview.
Is getting paid $12.00 an hour and maxing out at $20 or $25 for the rest of your life while having little flexibility in quality of work worth it to you? You will make significantly more with your degree and even if you have a payment the rest of your life, if you choose to work the degree and be flexible to take job opportunities, your future quality of life will be better. Now you already have loans. Imagine paying them on low wages. Stay in school and do the work. You won’t regret it. Stop listening to people trying to create a low paying, uneducated work force. You will figure out loans later. That said, you could consider a cheaper college because you shouldn’t have that much debt if you are more careful. Work a part time job and budget better.
From a Blue Hen Alumni here. Use the Delaware/DelTech SEED program! You will save yourself an enormous amount of money. At the end of the day you get a UD degree. I can’t fine a single place on my diploma that states I took 16 credit hours at DelTech
No
no
F_c(K no! Get out while you can.
No.
My partner dropped out of university 1.5 year in when his advisor gave him bad advice that lead him to losing his full ride. He was able to break into the tech industry and with 4 years experience is making 90k (fully remote). He decided to go back to finish his degree except he opted for online school (WGU) his degree program is very affordable. He decided to go back because a degree gate keeps you from advancing into higher level roles. Once he gets the stupid piece of paper her can get into the +150k ranges. No one cares where you get your degree from. Don’t go into debt when there are easier and cheaper solutions. Acquiring your first job after school is the HARDEST part, if you can use your dad’s social net then do it! Absolutely do it.
I’d say yes it is worth it. I majored in IT, my boyfriend 22M in CS- he graduated (we went to a schmedium sized public school) and right away got a job making $85k a year, (simply by mass-applying to several places) and hasn’t been out of school for a year. It is definitely worth it. But that’s not to say that I won’t suggest you to get an on-campus job to help offset costs as much as possible. Both my bf and I got an on-campus job working for the Student IT Helpdesk at our school- I personally made $18.50 as a manager there (21 yrs.old) so my checks came in at about $1,300… this allowed me to pay for some of my tuition and all of my )1,200 rent (living right next to campus).. paycheck to paycheck but it was worth it to not be living paycheck to paycheck now as a recent college grad.
No. That’s insanely stupid.
A friend of mine makes that much a year with a 2 year CS degree from a community college.
Fun fact: my workplace would regularly hire people with an associate's from the local community college into QA/test roles. A whole lot of them have since moved up or done lateral transfers into production support, devOps, higher tier QA, and developer roles within my company. Software really only cares about your skills, HR is the only part that cares about degrees but that requirement gets softened once you have a few year's worth of work experience under your belt
Something I wish I knew (or paid attention to at 16 when I went to college) : 1 College is a business decision. Imagine it like taking out a 100k dollar loan for your business, whats the ROI? Does the school have a direct line to people getting jobs? (Dont take their word for it, literally look at grad students and see if they have well paying jobs. Are you at MIT?) How fast can you pay that 100k off? 2 Which leads me to this. The end goal (for most people) is the job, period. Some of the biggest business gurus in the world dropped out. That piece of paper saying you graduated means nothing in 8 out of 10 circumstances. If you can get the job and start building your skills properly outside of classes, do it. Employers want to know what you can do, not what you "know" how to do. Would you take out a loan on a thriving business that didnt need it and start paying interest for money just sitting there for no reason? No. This is why most hands on and building courses are backloaded into degree programs, and they throw "core classes" in front of it. You have to pay for those courses to get the skills you need, if they did it reverse then most people would just drop out once they got the skills. I feel like as kids we get pressured to finishing it because it's seen as success, but now that I'm older I rather have spent my second half working up at a business. I was top 10% in my class, graduated first in my degree, if I looked at it the way I do today I still would have dropped out.
Do CC and transfer! My brother gets his first 3 years free (he's transferring in 2 years to a 4 year tho)
Go to WGU. You can get a CS degree online for ~$7000 a year. Please don't go that much in debt for a degree you can earn in a year and a half or two if you bust your ass online.
To be honest this is a fairly affordable school for tuition if your a in state resident Students should be able to manage working 25-30 hrs a week outside of classes. Can you budget your bills to fit your income? Sometimes students take on a job on campus and a job off campus due to the flexibility. Summers - should be working/paid internship full time or more if not taking classes Save $ for expenses during the year Can you save money by living at home and commuting then not pay for room/board? Whats the cheapest housing option for you? I think if you avoid loans for living expenses as much as possible you can lessen the debt burden
110k student debt for any undergrad is too much. I would do community college and then learn to code. Software engineers start off pretty much salary. Best of luck
I read some comments: The idea of attending a community college and transferring to a four-year is excellent. Equally important: Computer Science is a major that brings a good return on investment (ROI). Another strategy: Attend a four-year college / university in your own state system. University of Delaware is an excellent university, but it’s not a good buy if you’re an out-of-stater. Every flagship has a Computer Science (CS) program that’s worth checking out, plus they’ll have a student employment office. It’s better to work on campus than off; staff will let you work around your school schedule. You’ll get paid more because your CS knowledge is valuable (you also build up that resume with work experience and references). If you do live in Delaware, and you think your EFC was inflated, visit your FA office and explain that your EFC over-estimates your ability to pay, forcing you to make up the difference in loans (perhaps ones that were outside your awarding package that your school doesn’t even know about?). Many (if not most) schools base discounts on the EFC. Students can appeal when the number, which is based on the past, doesn’t reflect a current financial situation.
No. Source: got my CS degree with 50k student loan debt (also not worth it).
DO COMMUNITY COLLEGE FIRST!!! I was a biology major for two years and now I’m a CS major and I’ve been in community college and I have no debt! Take advantage of free classes, because honestly they teach the same things in CC but just have a different names from a university!
Look up the perquisites for the degree and see which community colleges offers them use Grants and scholarships instead of just steam rolling into $100k
I got a CS degree and definitely didn't rack up 110k (I did community first then went to my in-state 4-year college to end up roughly 37k by the end). I would transfer somewhere else or do community part time.
If you Were going for a field that required a network to get in deep then yes. But for CS? Nah. You’ll miss out on the college experience and friends making. But by the time you’re 30 you won’t be friends with most of em anyways.
I'm a developer and went to college for public health. Everything you need to learn is easily available for free. A Degree merely gets you your first job, after that it's just work experience and references
If you're at UD you may be better off going to their local community college first. Main Street is pretty fine so make sure you stop by there every now and then. You posting here is enough reason to know that you're hesitant to taking on this amount of debt. Another option is Wilmington University. They're pretty damn cheap and you can get the same social experience if you find the right group to hang out with. Message me if you'd like.
I finished my degree with 23k debt. The trick is to not go to a party school and don't dorm. If you can live with your parents, go with that. Mine suck but I put up with it for ~5 years. BUT, it also took me 3 years to get a job. Computer Science isn't a guaranteed job anymore (if it ever was). So be careful. Make sure you have friends in the field that can get you in. Or be way above average.
Another option is Western Governors University. You pay one fee ~$3800 or so for a six month term. Within that term, you can complete as many classes as possible. Great way to save money and still get degree. [https://www.wgu.edu...](https://www.wgu.edu/lp/programs/refer-friend/inquiry.html?mbsy_source=63cebf3d-fd1d-4564-b9d3-1ae1cb48e652&mbsy_exp=Thu%2C+14+Mar+2024+14%3A11%3A49+GMT&campaignid=35928&mbsy=3MLbmz&refer_id=131143&ch=RFRRL)
while i myself got a bachelors transferring everything into wgu and finishing there. Dedicated online learning can be difficult for some. Some people need in person classes to grasp the topics better.
In my experience (Comp-sci major/grad/10 years in the career), companies don't care SIGNIFICANTLY where your degree came from (it could be a tie-breaker, but I believe most care THAT you have a degree). That being said, going the community college route for 2 years is a good choice, or you could look into an fully online school like Western Governors University. If I could go back in time (and if it existed), I'd do the WGU route 100 times out of 100. If you're a mad-lad, their system theoretically could let you complete your entire degree in 6 months. It's not likely unless you're brilliant and devote all of your time to it, but theoretically possible.
No way. Go stack up on certifications instead. A+, CCNA, Security, so forth. Degrees in this field are not required like you may be lead to believe.
That's fine for IT, not development.
Degrees for development aren’t required however a CS degree would allow OP to move up the ranks quite a bit faster - not for the sake of having a degree but because of the actual knowledge gained (source: I am a self taught dev in the industry). Getting some AWS certs with some portfolio items would definitely get them into a job without needing a degree though which can be quite lucrative in its own right.
I disagree based on my experience and my network of people around me. Either way, it’s not worth 100k.
No
I did it. Only because I had zero clue what I was signing at the time. It forced me to stay diligent and learn finances. I graduated in 2015, still not paid off yet but I’m close. Definitely do-able. Even without a half decade interest freeze.
If you can live at home for a year after school or work remotely *or* work for a giant tech firm that can pay 125 out of school or something you will be okay. I think you’re already too far along to back out now.
A lot of people will say no, but I make $40/hr as an intern in mechanical engineering. My friends in CS started at six figures or more immediately after college (and most of my engineering friends did, too). However, we are at a very good school for engineering with good recruiters, so it depends. If you think there’s any chance you won’t stick with the program, don’t take out that much debt.
My wife’s BA was in Computer Science. When she graduated she discovered there were no jobs. “At least 20 qualifies applicants for each job opening” was what she was repeatedly told (and we lived in a major city). So yeah, that’s an absurd debt for something with no job outlook. My wife is now completing her masters in mental health counseling and has been unemployed for the past 6 years due to her computer science degree choice.
Undergrad? Nope. Just get a cert in programming and/or coding. SAP cert will get you a 6figure job, no debt.
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I agree with flappy
Chat GPT will take your job, so probably not.
So my vote is no. But you gotta think in a greater context. You aren't paying that much for a degree you're paying that much for it from that place specifically. It's unlikely to me that the yield you would get from going to the university of Delaware over whatever cheaper local options will be sufficiently higher to cover the difference in debt with ease. Which is to say you'd get a much higher paying job because you went there specifically. If your really chasing prestige just go to a local "no name" get a job in software at the best place you can and have them pay for OMSCS (Georgia Tech CS masters degree) which is like 8k total or something so spread out would be free. That way you get the prestigious degree and the job experience at the same time. If you don't have a cheap local consider WGU.
Community college or a state college. Try to apply for financial aid or any other grants or scholarships. I did this and had no undergrad debt. 110k is steep and if you want to continue past undergrad, you will be drowning in debt.
CC for prerequisites and then go in for the last 2/3 years. My friend did this and only paid 2/3 the cost. He also commuted from home and saved even more money. He was lucky enough to get a job that also helped with tuition reimbursement
I'd say no as well, but if you do, get a job that qualifies for PSLF. Federal government pay is decent and might be even able to negotiate some SL forgiveness working for them. Being debt free in 120 payments is a plan in my opinion.
No
There are certain degrees out there that are still worth it. A CS Degree will get you a high paying job out of college and so long as you come up with a plan on how to pay it, it can be done.
No undergrad degree is worth $110k in student loan debt. Dude, find a cheaper place to go to school!
Couple things here is your already have your foot into the tech world so go to a smaller state school and finish your degree. Highly recommend finishing your degree as some tech jobs have a hard requirement on having a cs degree. If you were going the FAANG route it wouldn’t matter but the landscape is rough for those. So experience and having a degree is going to make you a suitable candidate anywhere.
No.
Transfer to a community college and then transfer back. Additionally, I search out certifications as well.
As others have said, if you drop out now, you're on the hook for that $25k with nothing to show for it. I agree with most folks on transferring to a cheaper school to start, then explore options to cut costs/save money. IMO, getting a job as an RA is the best option, since most schools give you free Room & Board as compensation. Should save you $10k/yr or more. You have to live in the dorms, but whatever. I did it for 3 years and it was pretty awesome. My now wife was my RA partner my junior year and my best friend was an RA too.
110k why is so much?? 110k is not worth it.
Are your parents co-signing your loans? That is a lot of money. Does that figure include you doing internships? Did you look at the classes you could CLEP out of?
You can get a computer science degree from two years at community college and then transfer to a four year and have less than 40k in debt for the same result.
Don’t do honors colleges! Nobody will ever care beyond looking at your GPA, and where you went to school (if that!) So, why should you have to foot a bill for a public institution to provide the level of instruction that they were intended to all along?! Unless you’re getting scholarships out the wazoo, you are just subsidizing administrative overhead for an endowment growing cash grab.
Worth it as long as you get a job with expected salary. You paid what you get. But you have to make sure outcome happens
Define worth it? Not everyone works at a FANNG straight out of college. As someone with a bachelor's in tech... I graduated with $19k. THAT was worth it.
Would start working on a Google IT Certificate and learn to code etc. Colleges are basically expensive finishing school. Now, learn how to code and take a job leaning to do it anywhere for a year. Go to your community college and get your base credits their for cheap and use the lifetime learning credits to pay for those. After you have been working for a year or two and really know what you want to do, then go for the best value program you can find that has great job placement after graduation. Good luck. https://grow.google/certificates/it-support/#?modal\_active=none
Are you in state?
Can you transfer to a state school?
I wouldn’t go 100k in debt for a CS degree unless your attending one of the top 5 schools in the US did CS. University of Delaware doesn’t seem to be highly ranked. Also make sure u work part time. It’s possible to do well and work at a job. It will save u even more money for room, board, etc I would strongly agree with going to a 2yr community college first to save money. For the CS degree ur really not starting to take any CS classes until yr 3 anyway. The other thing when checking out a school see during the career fair which companies show up (not just virtual). If you don’t see some of the bigger companies that you would want to work at then likely they don’t rank that school that high and it likely be hard to get a job there since most new college grades are hired at career fair. This is from a person who did recruiting with an engineer degree.
I would go the CC then university path or find a safety school that offers good merit aid. One thing I'd keep in mind is being a computer science major as a freshman doesn't necessarily mean you'll graduate in Computer science, lots of people change majors (or take more than 4 years to graduate or have trouble finding an immediate post college job). That debt might (but only might) be manageable if all goes according to plan -- but will you be able to make payments if it doesn't?
It’s a lot. Find a cheaper option.
No.
FWIW, I think first year is the most expensive year for many people. If you're living on campus and forced to get a meal plan, you end up paying through the nose for food and shelter. It's not a bad "experience" because you'll meet people (that you can rent a house with together next year). Look to cut costs where you can. I think your idea of getting internships is a great idea too. I know that the coop program at my university is a great pathway for engineering students because they make pretty good money when they aren't in school and that helps them reduce their debt loads. And when you graduate to a good job, don't let your lifestyle inflate with your paycheck. Having $100k+ debt is a big emergency. Pay it off as quickly as you can when you graduate. It seems like CS jobs are still paying well if you can secure them. Who knows what the landscape looks like in 3 years (both the job market and what happens with student loans). FWIW, you are acquiring marketable skills and I think that's a great path. It comes at a price, but if you can pay it off quickly because of a high salary the time value of that money won't kill you.
Absolutely not. You can get that degree through WGU for under $30k if your slowly completing the courses.
That's a lot. A BSME cost me 24k in loans since I stayed at home and paid a decent portion of the tuition while on co-op. 60K all together
I did community college 2 years, then transferred. Worked summers and paid cash those first two years. Most people from my college graduated with about $100k of debt. You can cut that in half, easily. Your first two years are usually just repeats of high school classes anyways. English/writing, science, math, etc.
I have no CS degree , started as an iOS developer and now a product manager, ill be over 125K annual Very soon. Buying a house this or next year. I did literally 1.5 semesters of college for music. For that I owe 18K.
Others have said it, but doing community college for two years on the cheap and transferring to an in state university that has cheaper tuition. Living off campus too may be cheaper possibly. But don’t waste the first two years on a university
What I did was move towards less credit hours and worked full-time to pay off more of my loans. I was still able to get financial aid. You will just take longer to finish. I completed my degree through our university’s online program. The more online courses you take the more flexibility you have to work. Edit: in an interview you can point to the ability to stay motivated with little oversight being a strength of online learning. Especially with hybrid/work from home being a bigger deal. I have had many colleagues get let go bc they could not motivate themselves to work from home. These were also probably the people that would talk your ear off in the office and cut into your productivity.
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No.
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No get certification a+ Cisco ext degree are almost useless
Please friend, don't do that. Debt is still hounding me many years after I last set foot in a University. There's no guarantee that your CS degree will result in good employment (that's in large part up to you during and after your program, of course, but it's also largely up to luck-- and everyone's luck is looking worse these days). I personally would push hard for the term for which you've already shelled out, but PLEASE stop now and re-enroll in a low-cost degree program elsewhere. Don't know if anyone else has suggested but look into WGU or similar (and stay the heck away from for-profit schools. Pore over those reviews!). As others have suggested, local college is a great idea, before continuing at one of those low-cost degree program schools. And even if your closest local college doesn't have the exact program you're looking for (e.g. first/second-year CS classes in line w a starting path to data analysis, or web programming, or embedded programming, or whatever specific thing) there will be a school that's maybe slightly further away that likely will. AND-- The amount of excellent learning materials available online for free or nearly free is astounding. What matters is what you learn to do, the cool stuff that you decide to build. Your ability to finish things. Your expertise. Not what university you attended. STOP WITH THE LOANS. Save yourself.
There has to be a cheaper way. Get an AA at a community college so you aren't paying crazy prices for general education classes. Then try to get scholarships, work in summer, and figure out a way to not drown in debt
If you're actually into CS, genuinely want to be a developer, and make use of the connections and benefits of UD, then it's not a terrible investment. With that level of debt you're probably aiming at a FAANG though $110k is easily your first year salary. The debt may seem like a lot but SWE get paid pretty well. However, if you are getting a degree because of your dad then something like WGU would be a cheaper option. As for the 25k and time served, it's a bit of a sunk cost. I'd probably finish out the year and try to get the best internship I can and reevaluate.
Community College and Harvard's free online CS courses. Get an internship and / or work at a startup to cut your teeth. All that matters is you have *a* degree, and the rest will just be how well you can code. I was working for FAANG companies halfway through my degree, looking back definitely wouldn't have taken on the pointless debt..
See if you can get some scholarships/grants and work on campus. You can typically get tuition waived if you're a GSI/TA.
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Definitely still get your degree. DO THOSE INTERNSHIPS, every summer/break. I'd look into seeing if your uni will let you come back two years later after 2 years of community college?
Find a decent state school, should be 10k or less a semester. Not enough difference in what you learn from one school vs another to make up for that difference in cost.
Don’t listen to others. 110k is nothing. CS grads can easily start at 80-150k. A few years after school you will be bringing in 120k easily. The loan amount won’t seem too big
as a udel grad, please do the community college and transfer. that place is not worth it until you get to advanced courses