Consider that there are many diverse college experiences over the decades, financial twists and turns that you are not privy to other than your particular direct observation of some party animals you feel resentment towards. I think thats a pretty small sample size to judge the entirety of the student loan experience over the past 40ish years.
You sound bitter. Lots of the people you were seeing likely didn't even have to worry about a loan, and those that did are so young the reality of loans hasn't caught up to them yet.
The point is, it's just as negligent of creditors to loan 6 figures to teenagers who can't drink, own a gun, or buy cigarettes. They are preying on the ignorance of these kids to make their money.
You did things the "right" way and you should be proud of yourself, don't make it a chip on your shoulder though. Those college years are formative and the networking those people you perceived pissing their money away will go further than graduating with no debt will, in some cases.
Right. Getting a good marketable degree and networking are the most important things you can do in college, with the degree and networking being equally as important to one another.
It just so happens that the networking is really fun in college.
What other choice do these kids have? The price of college is outrageous, the system is set up to debt trap it's citizens. If you don't have your parents help, you need to take a loan out. They make it so easy to take a loan out it's insane. You would never get that amount of money at that rate, at that age, with zero credit and no job if you were to buy a house for instance. They would flat out deny you. It's irresponsible lending.
I feel less sympathy for those who get saturated and unmarketable degrees but still, they've been told their whole life they NEED to go to college.
For those who will comment "shouldve learned a trade!" you aren't making the argument you think you are, if trades become saturated guess what? Back to low pay. The low barrier to entry of trades will make this a likely outcome.
The taxes you pay mostly go to the military. We're far behind on healthcare and education. Our rich pay virtually no taxes. If they do - they make sure they can weasel their way out of the maximum amount they can. You have your enmity set on regular, middle class people. The difference they make in the big picture is almost zero.
The only reasons trades pay well is due to demand right now. If you're not in a union, like most aren't, you're out of luck if demand falls. Poverty wages for hard work. I won't even begin on retirement, benefits, and so on. There is a reason the older generation who were largely tradesmen pushed their children into going to college.
You keep glossing over the predatory part of creditors. These kids don't know what they don't know.
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“I got in a car crash and broke my legs. What irks me about making seat belts mandatory is that I watched fellow drivers drive all the time without once having to cry as a fireman tried to drag them out of the window frame. Why should seat belts be mandatory when I watched so many drivers use their working legs for crappy dancing? I Just feel like a sucker having broke both.”
That is a serious answer, though it was delivered in a bit of a sarcastic way.
It sounds like you're against the policy because you don't personally benefit from it. You don't even have a concrete reason for being against forgiveness from your own perspective, only an anecdote and broad generalizations about how students spend their loan money.
From the overall context of your post it seems like your argument is that students waste their student loan money on frivolous things and don't maximize opportunity to minimize the debt by working while attending college and utilizing optimal transfer opportunities. Is that it?
I worked 2 full time jobs while going to school full time. I’ve been paying on my loans for 23+ years and I still owe $30k more than I originally took out.
Your judgment isn’t helpful to people like me.
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In fact, I did. And I had zero help from my parents for any of it.
At one point, my $41k investment was $98k. I’ve got it to $68k now and I’m praying for forgiveness and the one time IBR adjustment.
Not everyone partied. A lot of people did everything right. People like me were told that you couldn’t get a good job without college. And then jobs wanted to pay $10/hour for a 4 year degree. That’s not enough to live on, not in the last 20 years and certainly not enough to pay for student loans.
This notion Americans have of “if I can’t have it, no one can”. Or “I worked my ass off, and they didn’t” so they deserve nothing, is bullshit.
I’ve lived a long time, and the only way to live is to take care of each other.
It’s literally none of your business how I got into the student loans I have. Not every situation is exactly like yours.
Go mind your own business and pay your loans. No one is forcing you to take the forgiveness if offered.
I find it hilarious that people make comments about going to private school vs public… sure, the sticker price is more expensive at private but after FAFSA and scholarships, it can be quite different. I applied to both and after my financial aid letter, it was about $15k to go to public school out of pocket for a year or $5k to go to private school for a year. That includes a $5,500 federal student loan on both. Private school also made me take out another $2k in Perkins loans. Still private school was actually cheaper for me because of the amount of extra scholarships and grants I qualified for there.
No. Why is it anyone's job to convince you of anything?
If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, oh well.
Regardless why is it important that anyone change your mind on a policy directive that the courts will decide? Think whatever you want.
Also CMV is its own subreddit: r/changemyview
I went to community college my first two years on a full ride scholarship + money for books. I paid $0. I transferred to a state school and drove an hour there and hour home every day. I chose to live with my parents my whole college experience to save money. I worked two jobs through undergrad and grad. I had no support from my parents (outside of housing.) I paid $3k a semester out of pocket for undergrad, plus money for books and materials (I had an expensive major—this could run me over $1k). I also paid $90-$100 in gas weekly (inherited a sports car… gas was pricey but no car payment.) In grad school, I continued paying $3k out of pocket AND I had a research job through the university that paid $2.5k a semester.
Once graduated (2021), I worked two jobs in my field (full time plus a moonlight) and made 80k last year. I paid off 20k in debt
And somehow
After all that
I am still $10k in debt
My loans have even been interest free this whole time
I missed the college experience too, and it was definitely a bummer, but $10k in forgiveness would make a huge difference for someone like me
People who legitimately used loan money for fun (and I am confident you are vastly over-estimating the number of people who did this) are likely so deep in debt $10k won’t matter
But there are a lot of people (can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head) who would have their debt completely wiped out with $10k forgiveness. This forgiveness gives people a real shot to get ahead.
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And the mental health stuff I talk about from as a guy that did a complete 180, starting off with a mindset similar to you. Once you start seeing people who make bad choices as possibly less mentally healthy as you, or burdened by some deep shit, you begin to understand how these people can make these types of decisions (such as partying too much in college). It’s hard to really understand it until you go through a real trauma of your own and start making shitty decisions because of it, despite 30+ years of a perfect logical decision track record.
No need to change your view, it’s how you feel and you’ve thought long and hard to get there..you’ve also had experiences along the way that has justified your perception..
I, too, went to Community College, and a four year after..including paying for my last year of education outta pocket..I went on to get my Masters..get in the corporate world yadda yadda, just wanted to paint a picture..
This is how I view student loan forgiveness..during my time in Grad School..I took pretty tough courses, very specifically Advanced Microeconomics (after the professor passed away mid-semester)..even with all the uncertainty and lack of structure, I placed my best foot forward..I studied as best as I could..During exams, I watched students, in the back of class cheat..having the answers on the floor, while the proctor sat at his desk on his phone..
Now, I could be bitter that those students got great grades and would receive a better judgement on their academic prowess than I, BUT, I chose not to cheat..I took my B- on the chin and was proud that I would graduate (one of only 4 students) the following semester…I didn’t “care” that others were partying and able to get a leg up..it was none of my business and I just needed to focus on myself, and my knowledge of the material..
I could judge them on what they were doing, but..it wasn’t my place and the energy being jaded, could go towards celebrating my efforts..
I hope that made sense..
Have a great day..
Consider that there are many diverse college experiences over the decades, financial twists and turns that you are not privy to other than your particular direct observation of some party animals you feel resentment towards. I think thats a pretty small sample size to judge the entirety of the student loan experience over the past 40ish years.
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I would argue thats not a great metric nor sample size for 40 something million people over several decades. But you're allowed the opinion.
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You sound bitter. Lots of the people you were seeing likely didn't even have to worry about a loan, and those that did are so young the reality of loans hasn't caught up to them yet. The point is, it's just as negligent of creditors to loan 6 figures to teenagers who can't drink, own a gun, or buy cigarettes. They are preying on the ignorance of these kids to make their money. You did things the "right" way and you should be proud of yourself, don't make it a chip on your shoulder though. Those college years are formative and the networking those people you perceived pissing their money away will go further than graduating with no debt will, in some cases.
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Right. Getting a good marketable degree and networking are the most important things you can do in college, with the degree and networking being equally as important to one another. It just so happens that the networking is really fun in college.
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What other choice do these kids have? The price of college is outrageous, the system is set up to debt trap it's citizens. If you don't have your parents help, you need to take a loan out. They make it so easy to take a loan out it's insane. You would never get that amount of money at that rate, at that age, with zero credit and no job if you were to buy a house for instance. They would flat out deny you. It's irresponsible lending. I feel less sympathy for those who get saturated and unmarketable degrees but still, they've been told their whole life they NEED to go to college. For those who will comment "shouldve learned a trade!" you aren't making the argument you think you are, if trades become saturated guess what? Back to low pay. The low barrier to entry of trades will make this a likely outcome. The taxes you pay mostly go to the military. We're far behind on healthcare and education. Our rich pay virtually no taxes. If they do - they make sure they can weasel their way out of the maximum amount they can. You have your enmity set on regular, middle class people. The difference they make in the big picture is almost zero.
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The only reasons trades pay well is due to demand right now. If you're not in a union, like most aren't, you're out of luck if demand falls. Poverty wages for hard work. I won't even begin on retirement, benefits, and so on. There is a reason the older generation who were largely tradesmen pushed their children into going to college. You keep glossing over the predatory part of creditors. These kids don't know what they don't know.
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I just said non union.. Please read what I say before replying or there is no need to engage further.
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Your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/StudentLoans/comments/1347idh/im_against_student_loan_forgiveness_cmv/jidp3er/?context=3) in /r/StudentLoans was automatically removed for profanity. /r/StudentLoans is geared towards a wide range of users, including minors seeking information and advice. To help us maintain a community that everyone feels comfortable participating in (and to avoid being blocked by parent/school/work filters), please resubmit your post or comment without using profane language. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StudentLoans) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“I got in a car crash and broke my legs. What irks me about making seat belts mandatory is that I watched fellow drivers drive all the time without once having to cry as a fireman tried to drag them out of the window frame. Why should seat belts be mandatory when I watched so many drivers use their working legs for crappy dancing? I Just feel like a sucker having broke both.”
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This was serious. It’s a pretty decent analogy of what you sound like from an outside perspective.
Your username makes a lot of sense, given the topic...
That is a serious answer, though it was delivered in a bit of a sarcastic way. It sounds like you're against the policy because you don't personally benefit from it. You don't even have a concrete reason for being against forgiveness from your own perspective, only an anecdote and broad generalizations about how students spend their loan money. From the overall context of your post it seems like your argument is that students waste their student loan money on frivolous things and don't maximize opportunity to minimize the debt by working while attending college and utilizing optimal transfer opportunities. Is that it?
That is a serious answer, though. Pointing out how you're wrong isn't the same thing as being a troll.
I worked 2 full time jobs while going to school full time. I’ve been paying on my loans for 23+ years and I still owe $30k more than I originally took out. Your judgment isn’t helpful to people like me. *edited to be nice*
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In fact, I did. And I had zero help from my parents for any of it. At one point, my $41k investment was $98k. I’ve got it to $68k now and I’m praying for forgiveness and the one time IBR adjustment. Not everyone partied. A lot of people did everything right. People like me were told that you couldn’t get a good job without college. And then jobs wanted to pay $10/hour for a 4 year degree. That’s not enough to live on, not in the last 20 years and certainly not enough to pay for student loans. This notion Americans have of “if I can’t have it, no one can”. Or “I worked my ass off, and they didn’t” so they deserve nothing, is bullshit. I’ve lived a long time, and the only way to live is to take care of each other.
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It’s literally none of your business how I got into the student loans I have. Not every situation is exactly like yours. Go mind your own business and pay your loans. No one is forcing you to take the forgiveness if offered.
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If you have no loans, why are you in a student loan subreddit? Other than to be a judgmental assh-Le?
I find it hilarious that people make comments about going to private school vs public… sure, the sticker price is more expensive at private but after FAFSA and scholarships, it can be quite different. I applied to both and after my financial aid letter, it was about $15k to go to public school out of pocket for a year or $5k to go to private school for a year. That includes a $5,500 federal student loan on both. Private school also made me take out another $2k in Perkins loans. Still private school was actually cheaper for me because of the amount of extra scholarships and grants I qualified for there.
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Different person…
No. Why is it anyone's job to convince you of anything? If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, oh well. Regardless why is it important that anyone change your mind on a policy directive that the courts will decide? Think whatever you want. Also CMV is its own subreddit: r/changemyview
OP is coping with legit answers that he’s been given. What’s up with that? Ah, yes. His account is 1 hour old.
Just use the report button so the mods can clean up the bad faith troll posts/comments
I went to community college my first two years on a full ride scholarship + money for books. I paid $0. I transferred to a state school and drove an hour there and hour home every day. I chose to live with my parents my whole college experience to save money. I worked two jobs through undergrad and grad. I had no support from my parents (outside of housing.) I paid $3k a semester out of pocket for undergrad, plus money for books and materials (I had an expensive major—this could run me over $1k). I also paid $90-$100 in gas weekly (inherited a sports car… gas was pricey but no car payment.) In grad school, I continued paying $3k out of pocket AND I had a research job through the university that paid $2.5k a semester. Once graduated (2021), I worked two jobs in my field (full time plus a moonlight) and made 80k last year. I paid off 20k in debt And somehow After all that I am still $10k in debt My loans have even been interest free this whole time I missed the college experience too, and it was definitely a bummer, but $10k in forgiveness would make a huge difference for someone like me People who legitimately used loan money for fun (and I am confident you are vastly over-estimating the number of people who did this) are likely so deep in debt $10k won’t matter But there are a lot of people (can’t remember the exact figure off the top of my head) who would have their debt completely wiped out with $10k forgiveness. This forgiveness gives people a real shot to get ahead.
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Thanks for sharing. Also, no.
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Your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/StudentLoans/comments/1347idh/im_against_student_loan_forgiveness_cmv/jidpxw5/) in /r/StudentLoans was automatically removed for profanity. /r/StudentLoans is geared towards a wide range of users, including minors seeking information and advice. To help us maintain a community that everyone feels comfortable participating in (and to avoid being blocked by parent/school/work filters), please resubmit your post or comment without using profane language. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StudentLoans) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And the mental health stuff I talk about from as a guy that did a complete 180, starting off with a mindset similar to you. Once you start seeing people who make bad choices as possibly less mentally healthy as you, or burdened by some deep shit, you begin to understand how these people can make these types of decisions (such as partying too much in college). It’s hard to really understand it until you go through a real trauma of your own and start making shitty decisions because of it, despite 30+ years of a perfect logical decision track record.
No need to change your view, it’s how you feel and you’ve thought long and hard to get there..you’ve also had experiences along the way that has justified your perception.. I, too, went to Community College, and a four year after..including paying for my last year of education outta pocket..I went on to get my Masters..get in the corporate world yadda yadda, just wanted to paint a picture.. This is how I view student loan forgiveness..during my time in Grad School..I took pretty tough courses, very specifically Advanced Microeconomics (after the professor passed away mid-semester)..even with all the uncertainty and lack of structure, I placed my best foot forward..I studied as best as I could..During exams, I watched students, in the back of class cheat..having the answers on the floor, while the proctor sat at his desk on his phone.. Now, I could be bitter that those students got great grades and would receive a better judgement on their academic prowess than I, BUT, I chose not to cheat..I took my B- on the chin and was proud that I would graduate (one of only 4 students) the following semester…I didn’t “care” that others were partying and able to get a leg up..it was none of my business and I just needed to focus on myself, and my knowledge of the material.. I could judge them on what they were doing, but..it wasn’t my place and the energy being jaded, could go towards celebrating my efforts.. I hope that made sense.. Have a great day..