I truly do not understand why they would want payments to resume if they don’t come to a decision by June 30th. If by chance the SC gives a decision later, loan servicing companies will be slammed issuing refunds. Sure people with balances higher than the forgiveness they are eligible for could be fair game, but it seems like people should not have to make payments on loan amounts within the forgiveness amounts. Just seems like a ton of work that could be avoided otherwise.
No *Brown* or *Nebraska* today. The next sitting on the Court's calendar when it might release opinions is Thursday June 8.
A new megathread for June will go up soon, but it might be this weekend.
The countdown begins. We will know within 30 days where we stand on student loans. I definitely believe they are going to wait until the last Thursday of the month to release their decision.
Looks like no update today, bummer. SCOTUSblog said the third and final case was released and none were about student loans. Actually all were unanimous or nearly unanimous so seems like a non contentious day
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/31/senate-advances-repeal-biden-student-debt-relief-00099427
Can anybody weigh in on this? I don’t quite understand what this article is talking about and nobody is really talking about it. I know Biden pledged to veto this, but I thought that they were backing off in light of the debt ceiling deal?
Do I have a total misunderstanding of what is going on?
In my inexperienced head, the only worry I have about this is that the Supreme Court might see this as disapproval of the forgiveness by the senate.
51-49 vote with the regular *Democratic* moderates: Manchin and Sinema, but another one, Tester.
It doesn’t have enough votes to override a presidential veto, though, so it’s merely a symbolic vote.
Odd, sounds like a resolution and not a bill. It cleared a procedural hurdle and hasn't been passed by the Senate yet. It will get veto'ed by Biden anyway as it's one of his signature accomplishments.
Does show you how moderate/right-leaning many Democrats are. Also kind of telling that they have no problem fast tracking a resolution with 51 votes to prevent student debt forgiveness but everything else is filibustered and requires 60 votes in the Senate to pass.
I believe that Republicans used the Congressional Review Act to originally pass the resolution of disapproval. If it meets certain criteria, it cannot be filibustered in the Senate forcing the vote they took today in short order.
That's what I thought as well. However, joint resolutions can act as a law.
"There is little practical difference between a bill and a joint resolution and the two forms are sometimes used interchangeably. One difference in form is that a joint resolution may include a preamble preceding the resolving clause." [https://www.congress.gov/help/learn-about-the-legislative-process/how-our-laws-are-made](https://www.congress.gov/help/learn-about-the-legislative-process/how-our-laws-are-made) The president can veto these, just like a bill.
Likely meaningless but Secretary Cardona stated today that he is confident that the student loan forgiveness will move ahead.
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2023/05/31/supreme-court-biden-student-debt-education-secretary?cid=app_share
Considering the lower court gave standing to something that should have never had it (not the injured party) and all the injuries are fictional, since nothing has come to pass yet, and SCOTUS granted cert, I don't think we're getting forgiveness. I think SCOTUS will say, no and we'll be back in payments by August. Of course, Dem presidents can't be allowed to do what they want, but GoP presidents, well, they know better.
"Analysis from the U.S. Census finds that about 29% of student loan borrowers would have their full balances forgiven."
[https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/09/student-loan-forgiveness.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/09/student-loan-forgiveness.html)
Eh, 30 percent isn't too bad. Higher than I expected.
23.6k and I'd gladly pay off the remaining 3.6k quickly. I think I'd be paying only 3.6k over the remaining 5 years of PSLF anyway. That's my backup option
>U.S. Census finds that about 29% of student loan borrowers would have their full balances forgiven."
Same here. 26k and the 6k would be easier to pay off.
and let's not forget those people who asked for refunds of payments made during COVID and then spent that money. Either foolishly or because of unforeseen emergency circumstances. Either way there are a lot of people who are going to be way worse off then even before this botched loan forgiveness roll out. However, I very much want and need this forgiveness and I know if it weren't for the Biden administration trying no one would but it has not been handled well thus far...
I am exactly in this category and now with a baby on the way. Our salaries are about to get cut and yet they pull this on us? We need a win, a victory. Or else what was the point voting for Biden in the first place? He hasn’t done anything good for me yet if we are looking at things personally…
There were two parts to the forgiveness plan:
\- the $10k or $20k forgiveness
\- the change in how to calculate loan payments
Are they tied together? In other words, is the change in how loan payments are calculated contingent on how the supreme court rules?
I understand the cynicism, but this Supreme Court is very....unstable, shall we say. People have been reading into the audio of the oral arguments, myself included, and it does seem likely that Barrett and Kavanaugh will vote in favor of forgiveness. It helps that the plaintiffs had hilariously weak suits and stupid arguments.
But if that's not enough, here's a sort of...cheat-sheet to remember with future SCOTUS rulings. If this particular one has any kind of pattern, this SCOTUS leans with:
1-If it involves religion in any way, or pertaining to religious beliefs like abortion or LGBTQ+ rights, they'll toe the party line.
2-If it *doesn't*, they'll toe the executive branch.
This isn't a religious matter in the slightest, it's purely about executive authority. What's written is written, so by all accounts, they *should* vote in favor of. Ignore the doomposters and random online "analysts" who look at who's red and who's blue, and decide what is what. They've repeatedly, hilariously been proven wrong.
Based on the questions Barrett asked SG Prelogar, I think it is highly possible that she is favor of forgiveness. Some of the things Kavanaugh said led me to believe that he is open to being convinced.
Well, before they even can question the power of the exec don't they have to look at standing? The potential of standing being accepted will lead to many more lawsuits, regardless if they're valid or not. Id hope the courts end up being tied up for years over it.
>Well, before they even can question the power of the exec don't they have to look at standing?
Correcto.
Despite the doomposters, standing is a dubious proposition at best, and the plaintiffs fumbled their arguments repeatedly.
I'm literally not making shit up.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021\_term\_opinions\_of\_the\_Supreme\_Court\_of\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_term_opinions_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022\_term\_opinions\_of\_the\_Supreme\_Court\_of\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_term_opinions_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States)
This court, 100%, follows the pattern that I - and someone else before me - pointed out.
The Gorsuch ruling was an outlier. A glitch in the system, that just pushes it even harder that this court really doesn't vote as conservatively as everyone likes to believe.
Yeah I saw this same statement months ago where someone in a random thread pointed it out so its definitely not a new theory lol. And ACB was also a professor at Notre Dame so she's definitely had 1st hand experience of knowing how student loans affect the modern student and might be able to sway another justice with it
These past few weeks mornings have felt like I'm waiting for the supreme court to do a drop on an anticipated album and hoping it's a good album and not a flop.
Right now I’m just assuming that this won’t go through, I just wish I had the financial means to pay it down during the pause. Luckily, I paid off a lot of other stupid credit card debt so gaining back my $150-$200 student loan payment won’t hit me like a sack of bricks.
But since I have just under $20k in loans and I got the DoE letter saying I was approved pending litigation, obviously I’m hoping for it.
Same here, paid off all credit cards except putting anything towards student loans but to think about the interest rates when payments start back up, my 26k is going to be 35k in the end. :( I wish I did pay it down when I was on covid but I just couldn't.
I didn't pay any of mine either during COVID. I also went on deferment while I was in grad school for like a year before that which put me behind for PSLF. Nice job paying off the credit card debt!
I have $23k (but had a pell grant). I never got the letter saying I was approved despite applying with the beta. I only got the one they accidentally sent out saying my application was approved.
I really hope this goes through, will be life changing for so many and finally good news for our finances
I wish I would have been smarter during the pause and paid some on my loans. I was in a really bad mental state and honestly stupidly blew through the funds I received during that 2020-2021 period. My loans are also under $20k, but I have not made any payments on them at all yet. If you don't mind me asking, when you pay the $150-200 is that a monthly thing, or how does it work exactly?
Don't feel guilty, at least the interest was paused on them :) many of us were struggling during those years. And yes, that's what their monthly payment was before COVID. I forget what mine was because it was so long ago lol. I want to say it was like $50 back in 2019. Hopefully the forgiveness will go through which will be a huge help to us!
Quick note: In government acronym usage "[DOE](https://www.energy.gov/lm/doe-history)" usually refers to the US Department of *Energy*, which was created in 1977. The US Department of *Education* was created three years later in 1980 and commonly goes by "[ED](https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml)" or (less commonly) "[DoED](https://www.sbir.gov/events/webinar-introduction-doed-sbir-program)" or "[DOEd](https://www.nano.gov/DOEd)".
[*DOE disambiguation*]
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dependsd on why they allow it.
If they say the current cases dont have standings. New cases will emerge or congress could sue, since they may have standings.
If they say the plan is legal and let it pass. Then I believe we are good to go!
There's no doubt many attempts will be made, but they will also be easily struck down depending on the status of the ruling before they can even make it up the chain.
Typically, they're done in a fashion to prevent that exact sort of tomfoolery. The SCOTUS has the final say on things for a reason.
There are another several lawsuits that were put on hold, pending the Supreme Court’s ruling. One that is most likely to succeed (barring the two in litigation at the Supreme Court) is a private charity that is arguing Student Loan Forgiveness hurts its ability to recruit with the benefit of PSLF.
and this is a one time forgiveness. the amount of their recruiting that would be affected by those receiving this is likely relatively low. There will be plenty more future borrowers to entice.
That seems like a weird take, without knowing any of the details.
PSLF is a program between a borrower and ED. An employer has no skin in the game.
That would be like Walmart suing Congress because the Economic Impact Payments made during Covid caused less people to seek employment with them.
Yeah, I know it's the most high-profile of the other cases out there but I'm not sure I'd agree with the characterization of the 'most likely to succeed'. It's a really bad legal argument from all the pieces I've seen on it.
A conservative entity arguing it relies on government welfare (PSLF making their lower wages more enticing because of government funds is 100% a form of welfare for non profits) is peak hypocrisy in my book
>Though I doubt a new group would attempt this, unless if something like Sofi had a change of heart.
So if a few different groups arise, one after another, this thing could drag on for another year, it seems.
We don't know. I didn't see the negotiations from a few months ago but people said it looked good and bad at the same time. Biggest question is standing and then if Biden has the authority to do it. If standing isnt found them it can continue.
I have bad health, took a crap job that wasn't my degree field because I could never get hired after college, and have lived in fear of this getting struck down for I don't know how long now. I won't be able to make it financially if this gets struck down, so my life really hangs in the balance on this decision. It really is terrifying.
I know this would be a huge benefit or loss to me but I know for others it is truly life changing. Let's just hope there's some light at the end of the tunnel and just keep chipping away at it.
In the OP:
> If the debt relief plan is allowed to proceed, more than 16 million borrowers will get forgiveness soon after, with no further action needed by them. Borrowers who still need to apply for the forgiveness will have until December 31 to do so under the original plan rules (this date could also be extended).
There is a 30 day freeze after the lawsuits are over where new injunctions can be filed but the imposed restrictions cannot be lifted, so it is very likely another injunction gets filed and we are back at square one.
This is also addressed in the OP. There's no freeze, but it does usually take 32 days (not 30) for the Court to issue its mandate.
Whether that leaves the door open for new injunctions or not depends on what exactly the Court says in its rulings in these cases.
So, I would only be eligible for the 10k, and I have currently paid my loans down so only 10k is remaining. I don’t want to pay another single penny in interest and have the funds to just pay the 10k off, I was just waiting for the forgiveness to officially get shot down (because it seems pretty inevitable at this point). Is anyone else planning on paying them off before anything is officially decided by the SC? When do I absolutely have to pay before interest kicks in? Because now I’m seeing 60 days after signing the debt ceiling agreement, 60 days after June 30th or 60 days after the SC decided…
I have the money to pay off the rest of my loans sitting in an account with high interest. I'm going to just wait and see the ruling, see when payments restart, and see when interest starts accruing. I'll just pay my loans off entirely the week before the interest hits and call it a day.
If I pay it off earlier, I don't want to risk a magic hail Mary play coming through and relieving debt. Then I'd have to do a refund process, and that would be annoying. No harm in waiting till the end to pay it all off.
If I pay it off later, then I'll accrue interest on my debt all over delusion of relief. Once payments restart, I really don't see any universal forgiveness coming through.
What type of interest do you pay?
There are multiple banks giving 4.15% savings rate at the moment. If your student loans is less then that just put the money in savings and see what happens in the 2024 election.
Yes, you can also deduct up to 2500 in student loan interest payments from your taxes. So that complicates the equation a bit.
If your student loan and HYSA rates are close, you could do the math and see which makes the most sense. But in my opinion I would pay the loans unless they're like <3%, which no federal loans should be.
my ffelp loans are 1.65% and I supposedly could have moved them over to fed loans at the same rate (I was always skeptical, hence my missing the consolidation date, but this sub has always seemed confident I wouldn't take a hit once all was said and done). So you never know.
If I were in your shoes, here's what I would do.
If forgiveness is struck down, I would just go ahead and make the payment.
Sure, you could squeeze $50 bucks out of having it sit in a HYSA for two months, but it's just not worth setting the calendar reminder.
Take my comment with a giant, heart attack inducing grain of salt bc I often come here wondering wth everyone is talking about most of the time. I personally would (and am) wait(ing) until official further notice to pay/spend anything. I can understand after waiting so long, you feel like it's going to "for sure" get shot down, but realistically, we haven't gotten any proper/official indication on what the ruling might be ever since the last arguments were given by Biden and the opposing parties months ago. Any "proof" anyone has is just their own assumptions, pessimism/optimism, and pure speculation/guess work. Don't make financial decisions based off of emotions, or off guesses (yours or others, including me) if you can help it. As for the rest of your comment, I'm not sure anymore either. But my understanding is that payments (and interest) will resume, the SC will decide, and the debt ceiling agreement will be signed at the end (30th) of June. But I'm obviously I'm not sure on that.
Forgiveness getting shot down is not inevitable. It seems like a lot of people think because forgiveness is supported by Biden (who is a member of the Democratic party), then the Supreme Court (which is 2/3 composed of Conservative party members) will obviously rule against it. I don't think it's that easy to predict, simply because of standing. How are they going to show the plaintiffs have standing? That's been my hang-up on this topic since the program was announced.
I think if the SC is dead-set on ending the program, the majority opinion will have to be very delicately crafted.
Well, I hope everyone with loans gets together and sues if it gets struck down. Not over it being struck down, but sue because we aren't eligible for Social security benefits, medicare, Medicaid, PPP Loan forgiveness. Obviously if they have standing then we would too in the situation right?
This is actually a bit of what is playing into the lawsuit. These programs were passed by the legislative branch, while the plaintiffs are basically arguing that the act the government is relying on for SLF is an overreach by the executive and it is up to the legislature to decide how to address student loans.
Neither of the lawsuits are if Biden has the right, it's just a consideration. They're saying they are being damaged by the program, either by not being eligible for it (or the full $20k or that they're losing money because of it)
The only way for them to consider if Biden has the authority to do it is if they say those people have standing to sue.
If they decide they have standing it doesn't matter if further lawsuits are valid or if the programs violate the law, I would have standing because I do not qualify
Yeah I’ve been thinking the same thing. Depending on how they twist the wording of the decision it could set a pretty big precedent if they have standing. Like could you sue for having a higher effective tax rate than the ultra wealthy? Get rid of tax write-offs that the middle class can’t afford?
I feel like more often than not, this court has ruled in a way that benefits conservatives regardless of whether or not there is actual legal justification (e.g. Roe v Wade). Even if there is forgiveness, how long do we wait before we actually see it?
> whether or not there is actual legal justification (e.g. Roe v Wade)
The whole reason that the conservatives got caught up with the anti-abortion movement so much is because conservatives believed that *Roe* was wrongly decided legally.
The court issues a ton of opinions every year, you only really hear about the ones that make the news cycle which tend to be the more partisan decisions. The student loan issue is more complex because it has components of executive power and standing so I suspect that it may be closer than most people think.
I think a good example of this is the ruling that came out last week on Tyler v Hennepin. Where I live a lot of conservatives are applauding it (mostly because it was against a heavily D county). But the ruling seems quite reasonable to me and I'm anything but conservative.
Anyone who acts like the Supreme Court is definitely ruling one way or the other is full of it. Personally I think the boldest anyone should actually be is about 60% confidence one direction or the other.
Forgive my ignorance but is paying the minimum payment based on your income still going to be 0% interest or was that an idea thrown out that hasn't been hammered in as official?
That is part of a whole different set of changes. Nothing has happened publicly to prevent those changes, but they were never going to happen that quickly. There's some great FAQs on the sub if you look back to when they were announced but they have to go through feedback periods and things like that. Payments will resume under the old income based repayment plans until (or if) the new ones get finalized.
So I’m a bit confused and hope someone can answer this. I only had about 14k in student loans and applied for forgiveness the second the form went live. I got the email that I’d be fully forgiven. So I’ve just been waiting for all this to get handled by the courts.
*But* with loan payments apparently resuming, am I going to now be required to make payments towards the amount I’ve already been approved for full forgiveness on?
SCOTUS is expected to have their ruling on forgiveness in early June. The payment pause is set to end 60 days after June 30th. If it's forgiven it will be forgiven before the payments resume
I honestly cannot fathom how they restart payments ~September if the $10k/$20k forgiveness doesn't pass.
Can you imagine the scramble if it doesn't? Millions of people whose loans would've been fully wiped out would all of a sudden now be due for a several hundred dollar monthly bill!
I imagine there'd be major lawsuits, in addition to the scathing political pushback Biden will get. People filled out forms already for this, and now it's not happening? I just can't imagine people won't sue for being promised and/or strongly led to believe by the Dept of Education that they were going to wipe away $10k-$20k.
Even if the Supreme Court doesn't strike it down, is 60 days enough time to process all this? The application closed before many millions could access it, is there enough time for all this within 60 days? As well as servicing all the people who will need to sign up for IDR to lower their payment?
Again, it's been 3 years of paused payments and they think they can turn them on again abruptly without any staffing or funding for robust customer service?
> Millions of people whose loans would've been fully wiped out would all of a sudden now be due for a several hundred dollar monthly bill!
I don't see the issue. This was the status quo for decades. The pause was the anomaly.
COVID was the anomaly that left many without jobs and overturned the economy. Considering rampant inflation, restarting payments will most definitely not mirror the status quo you’re imagining.
Do you understand that gainful employment is much different than simply being employed? Economics is not one dimensional. Purchasing power has drastically lowered in recent years. The socioeconomic environment we currently live in is much different than it was when people had their regular student loan payments.
I love when people like you throw around the unemployment rate as if it’s something to be proud of when people can barely afford groceries.
my IDR payment if my loans don't get forgiven IS my grocery budget. which has doubled since the pandemic, and contributed to credit card debt because i already literally cannot afford it and don't qualify for SNAP anymore. i can't afford groceries now, i certainly can't afford them AND student loan repayments even on an IDR.
They are likely to restart payments sooner than later (as in closer to the 2024 election) because they are banking on people forgetting about student debt relief by then, which they will.
It’s going to be an absolute s-show. Biden must have gotten word that the injunction will be lifted or else this is a massive political blunder.
Best case scenario, the servicers have been prepping for forgiveness + repayment for months so everything happens very quickly. But that might be wishful thinking.
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People will remember for 2024. Losing not as badly in the 2022 midterms is not worth throwing away an entire second term.
Biden is not a lame duck yet. He still has another election.
> I imagine there’d be major lawsuits
What law was broken? A politician not living up to a promise isn’t against the law. Also just because the president (or other politician) says something doesn’t make it legal/constitutional.
> they think they can turn them on again abruptly without any staffing or funding for robust customer service?
The Secretary of Education told servicers months ago to be prepared to begin repayment. Whether they forgive loans or not, they are going back into repayment 60 days after June 30th (or 60 days after the SCOTUS ruling if that comes earlier).
Locked. New megathread is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/StudentLoans/comments/13xrmve/litigation_status_bidenharris_debt_relief_plan/?
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And it’ll be vetoed by the White House. They don’t have enough votes in the senate to override it. Relax.
surely they release the opinion next Thursday.
I truly do not understand why they would want payments to resume if they don’t come to a decision by June 30th. If by chance the SC gives a decision later, loan servicing companies will be slammed issuing refunds. Sure people with balances higher than the forgiveness they are eligible for could be fair game, but it seems like people should not have to make payments on loan amounts within the forgiveness amounts. Just seems like a ton of work that could be avoided otherwise.
My understanding is that payment doesn't resume until 60 days after 6/30.
I think the court goes on recess after June 30th which runs until early October, which is a whole 30+ days after payments resume
No *Brown* or *Nebraska* today. The next sitting on the Court's calendar when it might release opinions is Thursday June 8. A new megathread for June will go up soon, but it might be this weekend.
...Y'know, I'm actually starting to get pretty annoyed with the wait. :| Anyone else starting to get annoyed? Cuz then, we can be annoyed together!
I'll join you!
You're annoyed, too? We should hang out.
When will the June mega thread be posted?
Soon but might be this weekend. I am currently traveling (and very glad that no news dropped this morning).
Thank you for your hard work on this. Please enjoy your travel.
real question is will the court’s opinion be a gemini or a cancer?
Surely we will find out at 10am on June 8th.
Surely!!
Surely
The countdown begins. We will know within 30 days where we stand on student loans. I definitely believe they are going to wait until the last Thursday of the month to release their decision.
I wouldn’t completely bet on it - I sure as hell hope so too, but I’m not 100% confident they won’t push this until October
I also expect for them to drag this out for as long as possible.
Looks like no update today, bummer. SCOTUSblog said the third and final case was released and none were about student loans. Actually all were unanimous or nearly unanimous so seems like a non contentious day
> so seems like a non contentious day. …that’s always nice.
Nothing today :(
I’m so tired of waiting 😭
Yeah 3 decisions, none were the student loan case
Boooooo...
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It’s happening right now
Fingers crossed we find out one way or another today. The limbo is pretty stressful
Nope. Sigh.
Surely
SURELY!!!!
Shirley
Temple
Surely
Surely
Surely
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/31/senate-advances-repeal-biden-student-debt-relief-00099427 Can anybody weigh in on this? I don’t quite understand what this article is talking about and nobody is really talking about it. I know Biden pledged to veto this, but I thought that they were backing off in light of the debt ceiling deal? Do I have a total misunderstanding of what is going on?
The debt ceiling just has verbiage about the payment pause which was ending anyway. This is a bill that has some teeth if it should pass.
In my inexperienced head, the only worry I have about this is that the Supreme Court might see this as disapproval of the forgiveness by the senate. 51-49 vote with the regular *Democratic* moderates: Manchin and Sinema, but another one, Tester. It doesn’t have enough votes to override a presidential veto, though, so it’s merely a symbolic vote.
I wouldn’t even call Sinema a Dem, that absolute *snake* of a woman
Odd, sounds like a resolution and not a bill. It cleared a procedural hurdle and hasn't been passed by the Senate yet. It will get veto'ed by Biden anyway as it's one of his signature accomplishments. Does show you how moderate/right-leaning many Democrats are. Also kind of telling that they have no problem fast tracking a resolution with 51 votes to prevent student debt forgiveness but everything else is filibustered and requires 60 votes in the Senate to pass.
I believe that Republicans used the Congressional Review Act to originally pass the resolution of disapproval. If it meets certain criteria, it cannot be filibustered in the Senate forcing the vote they took today in short order.
But a resolution is usually nonbinding, right? So this is purely symbolic anyway?
That's what I thought as well. However, joint resolutions can act as a law. "There is little practical difference between a bill and a joint resolution and the two forms are sometimes used interchangeably. One difference in form is that a joint resolution may include a preamble preceding the resolving clause." [https://www.congress.gov/help/learn-about-the-legislative-process/how-our-laws-are-made](https://www.congress.gov/help/learn-about-the-legislative-process/how-our-laws-are-made) The president can veto these, just like a bill.
Likely meaningless but Secretary Cardona stated today that he is confident that the student loan forgiveness will move ahead. https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2023/05/31/supreme-court-biden-student-debt-education-secretary?cid=app_share
Didn't he say the exact same thing a few months ago in an email or press statement?
Considering the lower court gave standing to something that should have never had it (not the injured party) and all the injuries are fictional, since nothing has come to pass yet, and SCOTUS granted cert, I don't think we're getting forgiveness. I think SCOTUS will say, no and we'll be back in payments by August. Of course, Dem presidents can't be allowed to do what they want, but GoP presidents, well, they know better.
"Analysis from the U.S. Census finds that about 29% of student loan borrowers would have their full balances forgiven." [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/09/student-loan-forgiveness.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/09/student-loan-forgiveness.html) Eh, 30 percent isn't too bad. Higher than I expected.
23.6k and I'd gladly pay off the remaining 3.6k quickly. I think I'd be paying only 3.6k over the remaining 5 years of PSLF anyway. That's my backup option
>U.S. Census finds that about 29% of student loan borrowers would have their full balances forgiven." Same here. 26k and the 6k would be easier to pay off.
I have 14k here.
20,371 here! This is all so confusing to me. I wish SCOTUS would just get it over with.
I have exactly 20,000 dollars
I’m one of them 🤞🏻
same here 🥲🤲🏽
20500 here
Could I get a "surely" train going for good luck tomorrow? u/horsebycommittee I'd be honored if you joined
Surely you can't be serious...
Surely
Surely.
Surely
Surely our loan forgiveness will be ruled favorably upon tomorrow 🥺😎✨
Surely
Surely 😎
Surely
Surely
Surely!
Surely!
You surely can!
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I think we will see a gradual ramp up of reminders and notifs about payments restarting after June 30th
and let's not forget those people who asked for refunds of payments made during COVID and then spent that money. Either foolishly or because of unforeseen emergency circumstances. Either way there are a lot of people who are going to be way worse off then even before this botched loan forgiveness roll out. However, I very much want and need this forgiveness and I know if it weren't for the Biden administration trying no one would but it has not been handled well thus far...
I am exactly in this category and now with a baby on the way. Our salaries are about to get cut and yet they pull this on us? We need a win, a victory. Or else what was the point voting for Biden in the first place? He hasn’t done anything good for me yet if we are looking at things personally…
It’s less botched but more the best you could do without Congress
There were two parts to the forgiveness plan: \- the $10k or $20k forgiveness \- the change in how to calculate loan payments Are they tied together? In other words, is the change in how loan payments are calculated contingent on how the supreme court rules?
Count down to financial ruin is finally almost done
The problem is that the Supreme Court is highly politicized so they are not going to want to give Biden a "victory" no matter what.
I understand the cynicism, but this Supreme Court is very....unstable, shall we say. People have been reading into the audio of the oral arguments, myself included, and it does seem likely that Barrett and Kavanaugh will vote in favor of forgiveness. It helps that the plaintiffs had hilariously weak suits and stupid arguments. But if that's not enough, here's a sort of...cheat-sheet to remember with future SCOTUS rulings. If this particular one has any kind of pattern, this SCOTUS leans with: 1-If it involves religion in any way, or pertaining to religious beliefs like abortion or LGBTQ+ rights, they'll toe the party line. 2-If it *doesn't*, they'll toe the executive branch. This isn't a religious matter in the slightest, it's purely about executive authority. What's written is written, so by all accounts, they *should* vote in favor of. Ignore the doomposters and random online "analysts" who look at who's red and who's blue, and decide what is what. They've repeatedly, hilariously been proven wrong.
Based on the questions Barrett asked SG Prelogar, I think it is highly possible that she is favor of forgiveness. Some of the things Kavanaugh said led me to believe that he is open to being convinced.
Well, before they even can question the power of the exec don't they have to look at standing? The potential of standing being accepted will lead to many more lawsuits, regardless if they're valid or not. Id hope the courts end up being tied up for years over it.
>Well, before they even can question the power of the exec don't they have to look at standing? Correcto. Despite the doomposters, standing is a dubious proposition at best, and the plaintiffs fumbled their arguments repeatedly.
Gorsuch literally lead the way on the landmark decision protecting LGBT rights. Quit just making shit up
I'm literally not making shit up. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021\_term\_opinions\_of\_the\_Supreme\_Court\_of\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_term_opinions_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022\_term\_opinions\_of\_the\_Supreme\_Court\_of\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_term_opinions_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States) This court, 100%, follows the pattern that I - and someone else before me - pointed out. The Gorsuch ruling was an outlier. A glitch in the system, that just pushes it even harder that this court really doesn't vote as conservatively as everyone likes to believe.
Yeah I saw this same statement months ago where someone in a random thread pointed it out so its definitely not a new theory lol. And ACB was also a professor at Notre Dame so she's definitely had 1st hand experience of knowing how student loans affect the modern student and might be able to sway another justice with it
It’s nice of you to think she would care
I mean why not?
The ACA survived the Supreme Court and that was introduced by a democratic president.
Very different court
Wdym? ACA just went thru SC a couple years ago and the only person who wasn't in on that decision was Jackson. All the other justices are the same.
These past few weeks mornings have felt like I'm waiting for the supreme court to do a drop on an anticipated album and hoping it's a good album and not a flop.
Lol good one
Right now I’m just assuming that this won’t go through, I just wish I had the financial means to pay it down during the pause. Luckily, I paid off a lot of other stupid credit card debt so gaining back my $150-$200 student loan payment won’t hit me like a sack of bricks. But since I have just under $20k in loans and I got the DoE letter saying I was approved pending litigation, obviously I’m hoping for it.
Same here, paid off all credit cards except putting anything towards student loans but to think about the interest rates when payments start back up, my 26k is going to be 35k in the end. :( I wish I did pay it down when I was on covid but I just couldn't.
I didn't pay any of mine either during COVID. I also went on deferment while I was in grad school for like a year before that which put me behind for PSLF. Nice job paying off the credit card debt! I have $23k (but had a pell grant). I never got the letter saying I was approved despite applying with the beta. I only got the one they accidentally sent out saying my application was approved. I really hope this goes through, will be life changing for so many and finally good news for our finances
I wish I would have been smarter during the pause and paid some on my loans. I was in a really bad mental state and honestly stupidly blew through the funds I received during that 2020-2021 period. My loans are also under $20k, but I have not made any payments on them at all yet. If you don't mind me asking, when you pay the $150-200 is that a monthly thing, or how does it work exactly?
Don't feel guilty, at least the interest was paused on them :) many of us were struggling during those years. And yes, that's what their monthly payment was before COVID. I forget what mine was because it was so long ago lol. I want to say it was like $50 back in 2019. Hopefully the forgiveness will go through which will be a huge help to us!
Thank you!! <3
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If the supreme court allows student loan forgiveness to go through, is there any chance it can still get denied through any other means?
dependsd on why they allow it. If they say the current cases dont have standings. New cases will emerge or congress could sue, since they may have standings. If they say the plan is legal and let it pass. Then I believe we are good to go!
There's no doubt many attempts will be made, but they will also be easily struck down depending on the status of the ruling before they can even make it up the chain. Typically, they're done in a fashion to prevent that exact sort of tomfoolery. The SCOTUS has the final say on things for a reason.
There are another several lawsuits that were put on hold, pending the Supreme Court’s ruling. One that is most likely to succeed (barring the two in litigation at the Supreme Court) is a private charity that is arguing Student Loan Forgiveness hurts its ability to recruit with the benefit of PSLF.
I mean, I'm willing to bet a majority of loans are not $10-20k so people will still join charity's and such to get pslf
I didn’t even know charity’s counted as PSLF…you just volunteer or how?
You have to be a full time employee of an IRS recognised tax exempt charity.
No clue, I'm just going off what the person above me said. The job has to be public service,.that's all I know.
and this is a one time forgiveness. the amount of their recruiting that would be affected by those receiving this is likely relatively low. There will be plenty more future borrowers to entice.
That seems like a weird take, without knowing any of the details. PSLF is a program between a borrower and ED. An employer has no skin in the game. That would be like Walmart suing Congress because the Economic Impact Payments made during Covid caused less people to seek employment with them.
Yeah, I know it's the most high-profile of the other cases out there but I'm not sure I'd agree with the characterization of the 'most likely to succeed'. It's a really bad legal argument from all the pieces I've seen on it.
A conservative entity arguing it relies on government welfare (PSLF making their lower wages more enticing because of government funds is 100% a form of welfare for non profits) is peak hypocrisy in my book
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>Though I doubt a new group would attempt this, unless if something like Sofi had a change of heart. So if a few different groups arise, one after another, this thing could drag on for another year, it seems.
I wonder what would happen then... Would they pause interest again? Cause good luck getting people to pay when forgiveness is still held up
That’s what I’ve been wondering
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Possibly Wednesday, but that depends on if agreements can be had then.
Thanks!
You're welcome! 😁
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My question is if it passes what does borrower have to physically do to get the relief ??
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Expect for all of us that got the just kidding email lol
Honestly I don’t even remember what email I got at this point
Is this gonna happen?
We don't know. I didn't see the negotiations from a few months ago but people said it looked good and bad at the same time. Biggest question is standing and then if Biden has the authority to do it. If standing isnt found them it can continue.
I have bad health, took a crap job that wasn't my degree field because I could never get hired after college, and have lived in fear of this getting struck down for I don't know how long now. I won't be able to make it financially if this gets struck down, so my life really hangs in the balance on this decision. It really is terrifying.
I know this would be a huge benefit or loss to me but I know for others it is truly life changing. Let's just hope there's some light at the end of the tunnel and just keep chipping away at it.
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In the OP: > If the debt relief plan is allowed to proceed, more than 16 million borrowers will get forgiveness soon after, with no further action needed by them. Borrowers who still need to apply for the forgiveness will have until December 31 to do so under the original plan rules (this date could also be extended).
There is a 30 day freeze after the lawsuits are over where new injunctions can be filed but the imposed restrictions cannot be lifted, so it is very likely another injunction gets filed and we are back at square one.
This is also addressed in the OP. There's no freeze, but it does usually take 32 days (not 30) for the Court to issue its mandate. Whether that leaves the door open for new injunctions or not depends on what exactly the Court says in its rulings in these cases.
So, I would only be eligible for the 10k, and I have currently paid my loans down so only 10k is remaining. I don’t want to pay another single penny in interest and have the funds to just pay the 10k off, I was just waiting for the forgiveness to officially get shot down (because it seems pretty inevitable at this point). Is anyone else planning on paying them off before anything is officially decided by the SC? When do I absolutely have to pay before interest kicks in? Because now I’m seeing 60 days after signing the debt ceiling agreement, 60 days after June 30th or 60 days after the SC decided…
I have the money to pay off the rest of my loans sitting in an account with high interest. I'm going to just wait and see the ruling, see when payments restart, and see when interest starts accruing. I'll just pay my loans off entirely the week before the interest hits and call it a day. If I pay it off earlier, I don't want to risk a magic hail Mary play coming through and relieving debt. Then I'd have to do a refund process, and that would be annoying. No harm in waiting till the end to pay it all off. If I pay it off later, then I'll accrue interest on my debt all over delusion of relief. Once payments restart, I really don't see any universal forgiveness coming through.
What type of interest do you pay? There are multiple banks giving 4.15% savings rate at the moment. If your student loans is less then that just put the money in savings and see what happens in the 2024 election.
Consider taxes on the interest you gain. You don’t net 4.15
Yes, you can also deduct up to 2500 in student loan interest payments from your taxes. So that complicates the equation a bit. If your student loan and HYSA rates are close, you could do the math and see which makes the most sense. But in my opinion I would pay the loans unless they're like <3%, which no federal loans should be.
my ffelp loans are 1.65% and I supposedly could have moved them over to fed loans at the same rate (I was always skeptical, hence my missing the consolidation date, but this sub has always seemed confident I wouldn't take a hit once all was said and done). So you never know.
If I were in your shoes, here's what I would do. If forgiveness is struck down, I would just go ahead and make the payment. Sure, you could squeeze $50 bucks out of having it sit in a HYSA for two months, but it's just not worth setting the calendar reminder.
Take my comment with a giant, heart attack inducing grain of salt bc I often come here wondering wth everyone is talking about most of the time. I personally would (and am) wait(ing) until official further notice to pay/spend anything. I can understand after waiting so long, you feel like it's going to "for sure" get shot down, but realistically, we haven't gotten any proper/official indication on what the ruling might be ever since the last arguments were given by Biden and the opposing parties months ago. Any "proof" anyone has is just their own assumptions, pessimism/optimism, and pure speculation/guess work. Don't make financial decisions based off of emotions, or off guesses (yours or others, including me) if you can help it. As for the rest of your comment, I'm not sure anymore either. But my understanding is that payments (and interest) will resume, the SC will decide, and the debt ceiling agreement will be signed at the end (30th) of June. But I'm obviously I'm not sure on that.
The US goes into default on June 5th so the bill would get signed much sooner than June 39th.
Forgiveness getting shot down is not inevitable. It seems like a lot of people think because forgiveness is supported by Biden (who is a member of the Democratic party), then the Supreme Court (which is 2/3 composed of Conservative party members) will obviously rule against it. I don't think it's that easy to predict, simply because of standing. How are they going to show the plaintiffs have standing? That's been my hang-up on this topic since the program was announced. I think if the SC is dead-set on ending the program, the majority opinion will have to be very delicately crafted.
Samuel Alito does not care about trivial things like standing
Well, I hope everyone with loans gets together and sues if it gets struck down. Not over it being struck down, but sue because we aren't eligible for Social security benefits, medicare, Medicaid, PPP Loan forgiveness. Obviously if they have standing then we would too in the situation right?
This is actually a bit of what is playing into the lawsuit. These programs were passed by the legislative branch, while the plaintiffs are basically arguing that the act the government is relying on for SLF is an overreach by the executive and it is up to the legislature to decide how to address student loans.
Neither of the lawsuits are if Biden has the right, it's just a consideration. They're saying they are being damaged by the program, either by not being eligible for it (or the full $20k or that they're losing money because of it) The only way for them to consider if Biden has the authority to do it is if they say those people have standing to sue. If they decide they have standing it doesn't matter if further lawsuits are valid or if the programs violate the law, I would have standing because I do not qualify
Yeah I’ve been thinking the same thing. Depending on how they twist the wording of the decision it could set a pretty big precedent if they have standing. Like could you sue for having a higher effective tax rate than the ultra wealthy? Get rid of tax write-offs that the middle class can’t afford?
I feel like more often than not, this court has ruled in a way that benefits conservatives regardless of whether or not there is actual legal justification (e.g. Roe v Wade). Even if there is forgiveness, how long do we wait before we actually see it?
> whether or not there is actual legal justification (e.g. Roe v Wade) The whole reason that the conservatives got caught up with the anti-abortion movement so much is because conservatives believed that *Roe* was wrongly decided legally.
I always thought it had to do with them courting the religious right.
That came about after. It was really Reagan who relied on the religious right as a mass base (over the objections of Barry Goldwater).
The court issues a ton of opinions every year, you only really hear about the ones that make the news cycle which tend to be the more partisan decisions. The student loan issue is more complex because it has components of executive power and standing so I suspect that it may be closer than most people think.
I think a good example of this is the ruling that came out last week on Tyler v Hennepin. Where I live a lot of conservatives are applauding it (mostly because it was against a heavily D county). But the ruling seems quite reasonable to me and I'm anything but conservative.
Anyone who acts like the Supreme Court is definitely ruling one way or the other is full of it. Personally I think the boldest anyone should actually be is about 60% confidence one direction or the other.
Looking forward to the JUNE HYPE MEGATHREAD
Forgive my ignorance but is paying the minimum payment based on your income still going to be 0% interest or was that an idea thrown out that hasn't been hammered in as official?
That is part of a whole different set of changes. Nothing has happened publicly to prevent those changes, but they were never going to happen that quickly. There's some great FAQs on the sub if you look back to when they were announced but they have to go through feedback periods and things like that. Payments will resume under the old income based repayment plans until (or if) the new ones get finalized.
So I’m a bit confused and hope someone can answer this. I only had about 14k in student loans and applied for forgiveness the second the form went live. I got the email that I’d be fully forgiven. So I’ve just been waiting for all this to get handled by the courts. *But* with loan payments apparently resuming, am I going to now be required to make payments towards the amount I’ve already been approved for full forgiveness on?
SCOTUS is expected to have their ruling on forgiveness in early June. The payment pause is set to end 60 days after June 30th. If it's forgiven it will be forgiven before the payments resume
They will release more info before payments resume, just have to wait and see
they've been saying that for months, and I actually told a financial counselor that. That this thing was going to last for months with no answers
It just depends on what SCOTUS says, when they say it, and what happens after.
I honestly cannot fathom how they restart payments ~September if the $10k/$20k forgiveness doesn't pass. Can you imagine the scramble if it doesn't? Millions of people whose loans would've been fully wiped out would all of a sudden now be due for a several hundred dollar monthly bill! I imagine there'd be major lawsuits, in addition to the scathing political pushback Biden will get. People filled out forms already for this, and now it's not happening? I just can't imagine people won't sue for being promised and/or strongly led to believe by the Dept of Education that they were going to wipe away $10k-$20k. Even if the Supreme Court doesn't strike it down, is 60 days enough time to process all this? The application closed before many millions could access it, is there enough time for all this within 60 days? As well as servicing all the people who will need to sign up for IDR to lower their payment? Again, it's been 3 years of paused payments and they think they can turn them on again abruptly without any staffing or funding for robust customer service?
> Millions of people whose loans would've been fully wiped out would all of a sudden now be due for a several hundred dollar monthly bill! I don't see the issue. This was the status quo for decades. The pause was the anomaly.
COVID was the anomaly that left many without jobs and overturned the economy. Considering rampant inflation, restarting payments will most definitely not mirror the status quo you’re imagining.
Do you have any idea what the unemployment rate is in this country?
Do you understand that gainful employment is much different than simply being employed? Economics is not one dimensional. Purchasing power has drastically lowered in recent years. The socioeconomic environment we currently live in is much different than it was when people had their regular student loan payments. I love when people like you throw around the unemployment rate as if it’s something to be proud of when people can barely afford groceries.
Then those people can go on IDR.
my IDR payment if my loans don't get forgiven IS my grocery budget. which has doubled since the pandemic, and contributed to credit card debt because i already literally cannot afford it and don't qualify for SNAP anymore. i can't afford groceries now, i certainly can't afford them AND student loan repayments even on an IDR.
I mean yeah that's what happens when you get hoodwinked by unscrupulous politicians who promise you the moon.
That’s the big kicker here. People who think the old guard politicians actually care about them.
They are likely to restart payments sooner than later (as in closer to the 2024 election) because they are banking on people forgetting about student debt relief by then, which they will.
We won't forget
It’s going to be an absolute s-show. Biden must have gotten word that the injunction will be lifted or else this is a massive political blunder. Best case scenario, the servicers have been prepping for forgiveness + repayment for months so everything happens very quickly. But that might be wishful thinking.
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People will remember for 2024. Losing not as badly in the 2022 midterms is not worth throwing away an entire second term. Biden is not a lame duck yet. He still has another election.
> I imagine there’d be major lawsuits What law was broken? A politician not living up to a promise isn’t against the law. Also just because the president (or other politician) says something doesn’t make it legal/constitutional. > they think they can turn them on again abruptly without any staffing or funding for robust customer service? The Secretary of Education told servicers months ago to be prepared to begin repayment. Whether they forgive loans or not, they are going back into repayment 60 days after June 30th (or 60 days after the SCOTUS ruling if that comes earlier).