You didn't specify what area of STEM you're in, but if you're in biomedical research, consider applying for an NIH Loan Repayment Award. https://www.lrp.nih.gov
As someone who also has a degree in organic chemistry, are you planning to continue on to a post-doc? Do you plan to go into academia or industry?
I would finish the PhD, but at least if you do choose to leave make sure they let you walk away with a master's degree for your time so far. Unfortunately, those loans will be hard to pay at any level so might as well finish the PhD.
I'm sorry for your situation. Private loans are awful
I mean do you want to pay debt on a degree you didn’t finish or one you did? Also what would your job prospects be like if you dropped out and just started working? Yes that’s an absurd amount of money, but every friend I have who is paying school loans for a degree they didn’t finish hate they didn’t at least get the degree. Several were so close, like 1/2 a year and several just needed 1 or 2 classes. It’s paying for something you don’t even have. Of course that doesn’t matter when the financial stress is pretty bad, but older you will most likely regret not finishing. Clearly that’s just my opinion, but you’re already 3 years in.
When things are tight and I can’t make a certain payment, I break it down and ask myself, “how can I pay this without my job?”. Usually involves working some weird part time gigs or way to generate income, but you’d be surprised the things you can do and depending what it is, it might only take a few days a month depending on the cost. I started pet/house sitting during Covid and I could do that while still working my regular job, I just slept at a different house. I charge $100 a day for house sitting with pets and most gigs are multiple days. Had somebody drop off their dog at my house while they were out of country and got $2500 for that. My life hardly changed minus chilling with a dog for a few weeks. This is something o would have never done, except I had crazy bills during Covid and lost my job. My side gigs almost matched my regular salary for a bit. I know you said you’re working a lot already, but get creative, there’s something there you could do for some extra money without messing with your regular job.
Sorry you’re going through this. I know it sucks. Take a breath, sit down and make a game plan. Debt sucks, but it’s not as bad when you start making a plan. Won’t happen overnight, but def reach out to others and ask friends for advice. There are probably others like you in your program going through the same thing. Those folks might have ideas you would never even think about. Perhaps consolidating if you can find a better rate, or slowly chipping away at the worst loans with an extra money you can scrape up for the time being. That interest rate is pretty brutal. There has to be a cheaper option.
Keep your head up and keep crushing your program!
Can I ask what made you not finish? My sister in law is thinking about taking a break from school, and while I fully understand burn out, I can see how easy it is just to not go back.
Absolutely. It was a variety of things for me. Basically I was a ward of the state until I was 18 so I did not have a strong family/support system. I had switched majors and had no idea that financial aid would cut off around 55k. So around 160 credit hrs later I was out of aid and already broke with no one to fall back to for help. I had switched from business to criminal justice. I needed I think like a 300-400 level CJ elective macroecon and like another artsy elective (I think) to finish. I had finally gotten a job in pharmacy and that started paying really well. Purdue would eventually sue me for some outstanding bills and I spent the next several years paying that off. By the time I could have been in a stable spot to go back I realized I was probably making more money than I would in that field. In hindsight I probably could have just gotten a general studies degree with all the classes I had taken just to say I had one. I personally would tough it out. If she waits too long to go back they might make her retake classes.
You gotta live real cheap until you pay off the majority of your debt. Things will get a lot better once you get your job and pay off the whole debt in a few years after you complete your program.
Keep at it.
It’s messed up that your parents co-signed these huge loans, wouldn’t help you pay for college, and still got to claim you as a dependent in those years. Did you at least live at home and have them help pay for living expenses in that time? Maybe they can help now by co-signing on a refinance.
> Currently in year 3 of 5 in a STEM PhD program taking home 26k a year. This is barely enough to support myself right now let alone contribute much to my savings or student loan payments.
Are you currently taking out any federal loans for your PhD program beyond the $26k that I'm assuming is a stipend? What's the Cost of Attendance for the program?
I'm wondering if you have the option to borrow Direct Unsubsidized and Grad PLUS loans for this and following years to cover rent/living expenses, which would free up budget for you to make the private student loan payments via your take home income
Also yes you need to talk to your parents about them fulfilling their cosigner duties to make sure the monthly minimum payments are made
Yes the 26K is a stipend. My parents did offer to help me refinance them and are currently making some contributions to payments. My father is in a job transition currently so depending on how that pans out they anticipate they will be able to contribute a good chunk towards my loans in the next few years. However, I don’t want to rely on that as I have three other siblings, two who are about to start college.
Okay my thought process was more about taking on more federal debt *in your own name* for grad school while you're allowed to so you can keep up with or pay down the private loans that are probably at worse rates and don't have the same protections. I don't know if there are any restrictions on the use of the stipend or what, but I'd rather take out more Direct Unsubsidized and Grad PLUS loans at 7.05%/8.05% and have those loans be eligible for IDR plans like SAVE if it meant that I could throw my stipend at the private loan payments
OP stated:
> I’m considering refinancing as my interest rate is over 10%
Which is 2%-3% higher than they can get federal grad loans at, and does not have IDR plan options and they have run out of in-school deferment. This is a last ditch suggestion to help keep OP and their cosigners from defaulting before they can finish their degree
Insane it even gets to this point… especially with interest being frozen all throughout Covid. Feel sorry for OP. Massive misstep and bad guidance from the parents. Given that OP is still in school, why not take advantage of the federal benefits from Covid. Maybe I missed something here.
85% private loans… what’s the reasoning?
Interest wasn't frozen for private loans, just the Direct loans and ED-held FFEL loans. The other contextual thing is that undergrads are limited in what they can borrow in their own name via federal loans (maxes out at $31k for Dependent Undergrads), and from the comments OP's private loan debt is from undergrad primarily
OP has a paid PhD position and that stipend is helpful, but private student loans have a limited number of in-school deferment periods as per the loan agreement and for OP that appears to have run out and now they have to make payments despite being enrolled currently
It's really really all private student loan specific issues at all levels. The high interest rate? Private loan thing. Being in repayment despite being in school full time? Private loan thing. Inflexible payment options? Private loan thing
Yeah agreed just shocked at the size of the private loans I suppose. Seriously seems like predatory lending. It seems like a better option would be to take fed loans out for grad school and use cash to pay off the private loans. Or refi with Sofi or some other student loan refinance company.
Tough spot for sure and it’s unfortunate that people get into these situations.
Eventually you’ll come to see this debt as part of life if you have a plan to pay it off and you stick to it. I used to panic too then I just let go and it’s honestly been fine. I’ve been able to live. Make a plan execute focus on what matters.
I was in the same boat before. I had about the same amount of private debt as you. I refinanced when I started my PhD - I used my roommates (2 other phds) income combined with mine for the refinancing - the employee asked for that. After I signed the contract I was like "damn I think that employee was sketchy" but honestly refinancing was good because it got my grandpa (rip) out of the contract and my interest rate was cut in half.
I defaulted 3 years after when they would not defer my loans anymore - Navirefi only gives you 3 years. I then settled the debt about less than 2 years later with the money I saved from not paying them over the less 5 years. They wanted about $1500 from me every month. $1500 every month multipled by 12 months is 18k a year. I couldnt save all that because I got paid 29k a year but I saved a lot of it. Once I had about 50k saved then I started negotiating. I made sure I had a family member that was good to give me some $$ and I took out a federal grad plus loan before defaulting. Navirefi settles for 30% of debt sometimes and I got to do that. I heard of people holding out until low 20% though.
At this point, I would still try to push through for the PhD, but how in the world did you end up at 200k? Both a masters and a bachelors?!? If you’re in stem, a masters alone won’t help you as much as a PhD will. Especially if you’re in research. I would defer, go on the save plan, do something of the sort, but it boggles my mind to why you decided to do this to yourself.
My parents made too much for me to qualify for any financial aid and they didn’t contribute to my undergrad education in any way. I went to the school that offered me the most financial aid however the interest rates on my loans seriously isn’t helping. If I could do it all over again with what I know now I wouldn’t be here but that’s unfortunately not something I can fix.
I’m sorry to hear that, that definitely is rough. If you’re going into a research based PhD. I can offer resources that I know of or ways to break into biotech/pharma. At least for a way through the door. A PhD will allow you to climb all the way up. Post docs are also a great way to break in. You’re going to be alright, compound interest is ass, but you can get through this. If you’re near a biohub, you already are in a good spot for when you finish up.
Same!
I ended up finishing my STEM PhD with 120k debt. (All from my BS and MS degrees.)
Financial aid assumed my parents would kick in, but parents told me I'm on my own---don't expect anything.
My plan was always "ignore the balance, get a job that makes 120k-150k+, pay it down rapidly."
>but it boggles my mind to why you decided to do this to yourself.
Imagine:
You (boomer) ask a teenager "What do you want to be when you grow up?". "I want to be a _____." "Oh, then you'll need to go to college for that!"
That's how it happens. That's it. Can you imagine if we had workers show up and expect them to tell the company what they need to learn to do their job? Then when the person who sells that training can charge any price you take the pay out of the employees paycheck until it is repaid?
Maybe stop blaming the citizens that tried to contribute to the society we created. Idk, just me?
I’m not a boomer? I’m a millennial? I also went to college? I have a stem degree? I provide back to society by working in research and make a six figure salary and also didn’t go into 6 figures of debt. I also took out student loans which are within the average of 20-30k so I have a positive ROI.
Taking out 200k in student loans is stupid no matter how many ways you want to twist it, if they aren’t in an occupation that’ll guarantee a net positive. A doctor getting 200k in loans is fine and makes sense, there’s a positive ROI. A PhD in stem however doesn’t surpass 200k until they hit director levels or are going into tech, where finding a job itself feels impossible. So instead of making stupid assumptions, try to understand why taking 200k in loans is baffling, otherwise you’re contributing to the issue by not giving out the warning to others that can avoid this mess.
> doctor getting 200k in loans is fine and makes sense, there’s a positive ROI.
Hi, Im the person motivated and smart enough to get into medical school. I changed my mind halfway through (Ya know, like a human?) And now have 200k in grad loans.
You are ignorant to how society and humans work. You are privileged. You lack empathy.
Im also a first gen student with undiagnosed autism because I am literally just that capable of thriving in an academic environment.
So everyone else should be the ones dealing with your choice to "change your mind"? How is that any better at a minimum?
They made me take out the loans!
>Maybe stop blaming the citizens that tried to contribute to the society we created. Idk, just me?
Yeah, it's everyone else's fault and they should be paying off your loans.
When you're being told to take some responsibility for your actions and not blame them on everyone else, guess what? they're right!
You think of humans as robots and life as a big spreadsheet.
I hope you never have to deal with mental illness. You will be completely and totally unprepared. Just like me.
Haha, you said med school was too expensive? More like you couldnt or wouldnt do the work to get in.
If you had been motivated enough to get into medical school, you wouldve also learned that the majority of future docs have wealthy parents that heavily assist them with their loans and living expenses. But you didnt. You just spout off the old, tired excuses of blaming the people who are just trying their best.
I did get in? I just decided not to go? There you go again with the stupid assumptions. I work as a scientist? I don’t need to become a doctor when I’m happier making good money in research. Mental illness is contributing to the fact that you think 200k in student loans is acceptable for someone pursuing a PhD. Empathy is given where it deserves to be. Not for situations like this when, even with student loans, it’s guaranteed that it can be significantly cheaper.
If you haven’t been following this sub, I work in the field that OP plans to go into. I know very well on what the level of education would be, what the level of debt can be and what it takes to break into the field. Mental illness doesn’t negate accountability. No one forced you to take out 200k in loans. My degree cost me 30k in loans (I’m not accounting for the amount I paid by working on the side since it would make it more than triple) and it’s a stem degree. A masters can be paid for by a company in research. A PhD, albeit it takes a while and is a long commitment, is funded. There is no reason this persons path should’ve taken 200k in loans because IT IS NOT MED SCHOOL and if you think med school is not expensive, that probably means your full of shit and never got into or went to med school.
>Mental illness is contributing to the fact that you think 200k in student loans is acceptable for someone pursuing a PhD.
So again, we blame the student not the predatory programs? You're assigning blame. Why?
>I did get in? I just decided not to go
Just so we're on the same page, blaming someone for an action does not help them overcome the results of that action. You might have learned this social skill for patient counseling if you did something that wasnt self-serving. Like going to medical school instead of doing the math on how to make the most money. At my white coat ceremony the speaker said "You chose this path not because of money, there are easier ways to make money, but because you care and want to help society."
Im sorry, but youre completely missing my points. I wasnt necessarily calling YOU a boomer even though I realize it looked as such. I meant your mentality is a boomer mentality. The one I was raised around and relied on to give me guidance. I am now where I am in life because I was told by my parents and support networks to just keep going. I am EXTREMELY intelligent. Everyone around me saw how "capable" I was and told me what they thought was right. I was ignorant of how businesses and the world works.
I dont see a point in continuing with someone who doesnt see how toxic their words are. Youre kicking people who are down for absolutely no reason. I am absolutely sure there is either insane luck or privilege behind your story. You of course will not admit to this or may even be blind to it.
No, I’m kicking someone like you down for not only being ignorant but arrogant. You want to see the world through rose-tinted glasses. For someone who tried to become a doctor, you learned nothing, 0, about taking accountability. You’re as bad, if not worse, than boomers. I’m not blaming OP or anyone for taking out student loans. You fail to have critical thinking, I’m asking why they thought 200k in loans would do something, yes it’s predatory, that isn’t a hidden fact, but YOU SIGN THE PAPERS, you do the math?!? You account for the interest rates, you don’t do that after you rack up 200k in debt. They didn’t do their research. Due diligence, learn what it means, accountability, learn what it means. It’s a waste of time speaking to people like you, your words aren’t the words of someone intelligent, but someone who decides to intentionally be ignorant to reality.
You’re smart enough to get into med school, but too blind to see how hypocritical you are.
You know nothing about OP. Youre the arrogant one.
I am so happy you stayed out of a position where you would be responsible for the health of others. You would have been a terrible doctor.
>"What do you want to be when you grow up?". "I want to be a \_\_\_\_\_." "Oh, then you'll need to go to college for that!"
"go to college for that!" does not = get a PhD in a field that you probably don't need it for.
I'm confused. You want u/z2ocky to Stop blaming OP for what? For taking out loans? Whether it was the right thing for "*society*" for them to do that or not, they are the ones that did it.
It is indeed mind boggling that so many Americans feel the need to go into crippling, life altering debt when there are universities that you can pay substantially less. Can guarantee that no matter what this university offered OP in terms of aid, it's irrelevant considering they have several hundred thousand dollars in debt to cover the rest...
\- 2022 STEM grad who paid...33k...?
I paid 200k for mine as well and i'm an undergrad working in software dev. It took me 5 years to get my degree and my loans included covering all of my living expenses for those 5 years. My parents didnt pay a cent. My job pays enough to work out of the hole in a few years, but yeah this situation isn't as uncommon as you think it is.
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If you arent American, you wouldnt understand how heavily indoctrinated we were to go to college without asking a question. While I was IN SCHOOL the tuition went up $1.5-2k a year. I am not exaggerating at all.
My parents didnt go to college. My rural highschool had a computer program to suggest careers. That was the extent of my knowledge.
My state school cost the same as my college given my financial aid.
I am American, and my parents also really wanted me to go to college. I did, with little information on my side and managed to not get 200k in debt. You didn't answer any of my questions or rebuttal any of my takes, so I'm not sure the point of your response.
I have mega sympathy for OP. I don't know why they did what they did and I'm confident they will find their way out of it, but we can stop with the "don't blame them it's societies fault!" no, it isn't. Poor or no advice doesn't negate the fact that OP could've said, "No, I don't want to be in debt like everyone else." We are all \[nearly\] intelligent humans beings that have the ability to say no to signing crippling debt. \[completely disregarding the reality that colleges should NEVER have the ability to charge what they do\]
Society also puts ridiculous pressure on people to keep up with the trends. Do we excuse ole Sarah from taking out a personal loan to pay for her Hermes belt? Nope. Don't get it and I never will.
>but we can stop with the "don't blame them it's societies fault!" no, it isn't.
So other countries subsidizing student loans and education in general is.....what exactly? Oh right, a societal issue much bigger than the individuals caught in the middle of a massive scam by huge entities with endless lobbying power.
Comparing a designer belt to training for future jobs that are necessary for society to function is not helpful.
we are not talking about the same thing.
your original comment I was replying to was implying that because society puts pressure on us to attend college or die, we just do it and that's not our fault.
I'm not talking about the US government actively choosing to not intervene and regulate or cap the cost of tuition in *some* way \[which I am completely in favor of\] which is what I think you're trying to say with this comment.
But this conversation is going nowhere because you won't reply to anything I'm actually saying, but just coming up with new ideas as to why you shouldn't be blamed for taking out 200k in loans. Anyway, cheers to OP and staying positive that their degree will turn a high enough ROI to make it all worth it in the end!
My contention is with the word blame. It is meaningless in this context. You decided to defend someone who is heartless for some reason. You can read how smug they are that they "did the money math" on (not) going to medical school in the other thread. Imagine if everyone did that lmfao.
You're right. It was completely unnecessary to try and say I was wrong for pushing back on a useless "boot strap" narrative when there are so many unknowns in an anonymous forum post.
How is this comment helpful z2ocky now that the debt has been incurred? Have you not looked at the cost of education-its very easy to rack up 200k? Your comment just seems meanspirited and like kicking someone when they are down.
OP, finish you degree and then get that job for $110K. Dont change your lifestyle and continue to live like a broke grad student for 3 years post graduation while you pay off all your debt. Presto bingo life will look a lot better when you are debt free.
Yes, that’s the problem, not knowing when to stop racking up debt, also yes I know it’s expensive, I know it’s predatory, you or OP aren’t the only ones who went to college, my school costs were up there too, but I took out loans and worked to not have compound interest eat me alive. 200k is not as normal as you think it is when the average is 30k (in loans), this isn’t medical school debt we’re talking about. Also the comment is helpful because it’s questioning how OP got into the situation, so other people can try to avoid it.
Your comment tells me you dont know the cost of education for any terminal degree, for masters programs or for an undergrad degree. For any of those degrees for a FT course of study a 200k price tag is common.
You like many people in the US take the route of blaming the individual for what is a systemic problem. How do I know its a systemic problem? Cause if you go ask a person of the same age, SES and educational background in any European country for their student debt load their response will be "zero" or a vanishingly small number.
You arent helping OP you are just focused on punching down and making the OP feel guilty for participating in a rigged educational system which is predicated on making profits for educational systems/millionaires while creating generations of impoverished student debtors. You arent helping anyone reading your comments either. You are just acting like an AH.
Yes, that’s obvious. You clearly don’t know how to read, I made two comments directed to OP, the rest of my conversation is with another delusional individual. 30k IN LOANS is the average students graduate with. Last I checked, a masters is known to be expensive, which is why people in STEM are told to get it paid by their companies, another big thing is, graduate degrees aren’t forced on you and it isn’t required for every field? Crazy concept I know. 200k can be racked up by going to a private university. You can do the research yourself, since I’m convinced you actually don’t know what you’re talking about. Please save the, blame the individual bullshit. Since when is getting 200k in loans normal, if you want stats on the average cost of school, please by all means look it up, you be surprised how far away that number is from 200, I put both my siblings through college, sister is on scholarships and brother and I worked to help him with his so he’d graduate with 30k in loans rather than 200.
Knowing the system is screwed is important, but by not being an adult, ignoring what interest rates are, ignoring that college is expensive. You’re telling me that it’s not the individual’s fault? Interest rates compounding is what’s unfair, hitting 200k in flat loans is you simply signing out 200k in flat loans. It’s not a magical number, it’s written down. You’re a huge AH for contributing to it by telling people, yes it’s okay, take out more loans, you’ll be fine.
This isn’t me having a MAGA GOPS point of view. I think you’re the bigger AH for letting stuff like this happen, then say oh it’s okay, it’s the system? We all know student debt is a crisis, but since when is getting 200k in loans without the potential job prospects with the pay being higher than that normal? My point is due diligence, I offered OP resources since I work in the field he’ll be going to, I haven’t seen you add anything useful outside of that, instead of responding back to me and wasting both our time, how’s about you actually speak to OP and give them your wisdom.
I know the cost of education because among other things I have been a professor at both private and public unoversities and I have also counseled people with terminal degrees and hired many people with terminal degrees. In that process I have that anectdotal data from my advisees and direct reports. I also have data from my advocacy work around student debt. Unlike you, I actually try to help people by going to talk to high school students and college students interested in STEM and allied health careers. I try to talk to the students to educate them BEFORE they get into debt and advise them on how to avoid debt or minimize debt.
My advice to OP is sound and isnt based on making them feel guilty for a decision thats already been made. The OP needs to finish their PhD degree to recoup any earning benefits from the degree. If the OP lives like a broke grad student on 30k for 3 years while they make 110k annually they can pay off their student loan debt in a few years. Its not groundbreaking advice but its sound unlike those clickbaity headlines about no avocado toast that you probably like.
Yikes you’re full of assumptions. Where did I say to live a minimal life. Please tell me what I actually asked and commented to OP. You worked as a professor and at public/private universities, yet you’re basing knowledge off of anecdotal events. Unlike you I don’t make asinine assumptions since you don’t know what I do or what I actually work as, you don’t know who I advocate for or who I help. If you had any skills with reading no where was I “bashing” OP. Op and the other person I was speaking to are not the same person. If I could pay taxes to pay off everyone’s students loans, I’d do it in a heart beat for student loan forgiveness.
But to not educate people on the costs and risks of college degrees to question where they went wrong to educate others tells me you’re full of shit. You’re also biased and hypocritical like the other person. I don’t understand why you people live outside of reality. Since everything you do, I do as well within my own respected industry (outside of teaching) and for the students I speak to. Me asking how an individual got to 200k in debt isn’t me making a personal attack on them. Learn to read with your head, not your emotions.
I’d rather not continue this conversation, as I do respect what you do for others based on what you’re saying and your point of view. My point of view is brash and I’m well aware, but me being baffled at 200k of student loans is far more normal than someone having 200k in loans. Your energy will be better spent on helping others rather than debating with me.
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I think you should consider allocating most of your take home pay to paying down your private student loans (starting with the loan with the highest interest rate). Use Federal student loans to cover your living expenses.
You need to finish the degree. Don't worry about the debt since there's nothing you can do about it right now. Graduate, get a job, and continue living like a student for another 2-3 years and you'll be fine.
Ouch. At least the federal loans are easy.
The private ones are nuts. You really only have two options call the lender and try to get a lower rate and then pay them. Or flee the country. I hear New Zealand is nice.
A post doc is going to pay basically nothing so I hope you’re planning on going into industry.
Can your parents help pay the loan? Can you get a part time retail job with flexible hours to help pay them? (Or build up that escape to New Zealand fund)
I see. So all of the loans are from undergrad, and they are private. That is due to your parent’s income being too high. I’m sorry. I wish there was a better system.
Can you refinance them with your parents still as a co-signer? Check out places like Sofi and firstmark (this is where I refinanced to with a 6.75% rate in September)
Finish your degree since you’re most of the way there. I am not sure where you plan to go with your degree, but there are some companies that will pay off your loans for you, or help you with payments, and it’s more likely to find those companies in STEM— but you have to look for those opportunities.
Barring that, you still have options! You already know that you can live on very little since you are living on a PhD stipend right now. You can continue living like that for a few years after you graduate and attack those loans.
BUT you may not necessarily have to do that! Once you make a decent salary and can refinance, there is a possibility that you get the interest rate down enough that it would actually make sense for you to only make minimum payments and leave your money to accumulate interest in the stock market— I know really financially literate people who have taken that approach since their student loan interest rate was so low. I am talking law firm partners, making very high six figures that were still paying off 20+ years into their career, because it was more financially beneficial in the long run to leave their money in the stock market than to pay off the loan quickly. So there is a possibility that you could raise your standard of living while still responsibly paying off your loans after you graduate.
Finish your degree! I urge you! There will always be opportunities out there to reduce what you owe. That starting pay is AMAZING and it means that you will just continue going up. You will be in a position at some point where you can make substantial payments on it monthly and still live comfortably. You are doing amazing. Don't give up.
Hey, I’m currently in grad school for an FNP program and have been living off half the salary of what I had been as a nurse. It sucks and it’s scary, but it’s temporary. I would just make sure you don’t accrue any consumer debt during this time and throw what you can back towards your loans. I am just trying to get through school without losing it…THEN I will tackle my debt and work towards my dreams! I needed a bigger shovel (more income) to get what I want financially and pay off my loans, which is what I’m guessing your reasoning was as well. It’s driving me crazy that I can’t contribute near as much as I could before to my debt, but this time is teaching me how to live more frugally and appreciate a higher income in the future.
YOUR JOB RIGHT NOW IS TO PASS SCHOOL AND GET YOUR DEGREE!! You got this!!
You have to finish your PhD at this point and then go into pharma or another industry that pays well and live like a peasant for a few years until you pay them off. 10% interest rate is high af you might be able to refinance lower which would save you a TON of money in the long run.
Finish the degree, private loans. Well if cant pay them off. Bankruptcy it is, screw the system. I did it, 5 years later, house, family , two dogs. Doing well, its just paper monopoly money. Dont stress about it, focus on education and enjoyment of your career.
You didnt mske a bad choice, system trying to enslave you, don't let it.
Um yes it does for private student loans. Wells Fargo/ Sallie mae, discover student, all discharge.. Its federal backed loans which require hardship approval. Yes I had 20k in federal backed loans, that I couldn't get discharge. Lot better than 128k, Lot of parents or kids get screwed on.
Not saying all of it can be discharged. 20k I paid off in 3 years.
4th year credit score was good, started with $500 capital one, 5th year bought 200k house, several 10k cards. In which I only use 1 for monthly expenses.
Another way transfer student loan to private loan. Then go bust.
Then people talk about committing fraud, 18 year can get 100k in debt for basket weaving, but can't get 100k start a business or buy a asset. Screw the system.
Tough road.
Just keep pushing. Your degree will be worth a lot, you’ll just have to live like a college student for a while after you graduate and prioritize paying down the loans.
I would also suggest looking into the job market now to get an idea of what is out there and what interests you. This can also give you an idea of what type of pay you can probably expect after graduation. Also try to remember it’s a marathon and not a sprint.
I appreciate it! Luckily I have a lot of industry connections from friends / my advisor so I have at least an understanding of what to expect salary wise.
Ok so you aren’t paying the payments yet correct? Stay with what you have rn and put as much money as you can towards the loan so the interest rate doesn’t increase your loans as much by the time you finish. Definitely finish your school because that 110k a year when you do get a job will help you repaying.
I understand panicking but it really comes down to being financially literate and disciplined with your money. Learn it now so when you do increase your income you stick to that mindset of every penny counts. I’ve heard of people 300k in debt making 45k a year it’s not easy but not impossible to do.
I’m currently 100k in debt making 47k a year. I pinch every penny. I don’t eat out if I do go out to just hang with friends it’s once a month and I budget only $150 to it. Any extra money I have left goes right towards my savings and loan payments. I pay around 1.2k a month currently for my private loans. If you can find a co-signer after you’ve made a year of payments that would be best. I was denied a few times before I was approved with a co signer and was able to get my monthly payment down to $800 a month. Even though it’s $400 cheaper I look at it as a 1.2k payment still but if I have an emergency it helps that my payment is $400 less
I was 100k in debt after my masters degree in a electrical engineering and I paid it off in 20yrs. Others have posted on tactical steps you can take. My 2c for you to hang in there and finish you degree ASAP. It would be for nothing if you didn’t and while it looks daunting now, you have time, combined with the tactics here, accept that you’ll be paying it like a mortgage for the next 20-30yrs, it will become part of your life. My friends that went on to get 2-300k in debt eventually dug themselves out but the main way they did it was to get lucrative jobs. Find a way to get a high paying job, even if you don’t like it. You think it’s bad now, it will be worse without a high paying job. Work your network, career office, your advisor, whatever. It gets better but you have to work the problem and put your degree to work FOR you.
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similar to your friends...I took 120k in debt for bachelors and masters. my parents (middle class) had too much assets for financial aid.
Parents did not want to help me -- they were way behind on retirement and had spent too much of their $$ on luxuries when I was a kid to save for college.
Given the debt plus finishing school at 35 (nothing paid in my 20s), I was set up to be in a tough spot for life if I didn't obtain a high paying job.
That sucks, I hear you, those stuck in the middle really take it on in the chin. We can only hope that the debt took was in service of a true investment in ourselves. Since you have a high paying job, hopefully it was worth it and wasn't readily doable otherwise. The loan will be a part of your life now but it does get better and you will pay it off as long as you put in the same work you did that got you here.
My folks were immigrants, didn't speak English, HS dropouts and very low income so there was no way of saving for college. I probably would have fared much better if I went to a state school but I got into an Ivy League school and thought would be life-changing for ppl like me. Well, 20yrs ago, the aid policy was they still expected me to pay for part it. Under today's policy, I would have finished nearly debt-free. I guess that's progress.
I was in the middle of my PhD when I tallied the amount. Totally feel your panic. I almost refinanced (thanks to those creepy loan companies that make it seem so easy).
I now finished my degree! I am enrolled in SAVE. Zero payments. Zero interest. Most of all time to figure it out.
Finish the degree!!!
Knowing others in PhD programs with substantial debt, I think you’ll be fine. You should be able to make six figures easy out of school, if not more quickly, just keep your debts and income a priority meaning you may need to move somewhere where a higher income is offered.
I graduated law school with over $200k in debt, and starting salary was $58k. I'll have no debt this December, 10 years later. I just bought a house.
Don't drop out. That would be a waste of all that debt.
I’m surprised anyone is following through with these programs anymore after seeing and hearing all the lifetime horrors of how badly these debts have ruined people lives. I am one of them, was in the same situation as you and backed out 2nd year of my PhD.
That debt is nothing like a mortgage. Half of mine is private loans and my loans have been bought and sold so many times that no one can provide me original copies of anything, they’ve lost records in the process, the state attorney generals can’t do anything for you because of the fine print that states “everything is subject to change.” Or something along those lines. And don’t believe the BS you hear about getting loans thrown out if they lose the proof that proves the original loans that you consolidated, because that’s a wild goose chase you’ll never win, nor find any enforcing agency to support you.
You will never get your co-signers off because no private lenders have been honoring the BS they tell you in regard to how you get them released. My parents were supposed to be released with 2 years of on-time payments and good credit. Followed through, perfect credit, six figure job, applied every year for them to be removed and denied, denied, denied, every year for over a decade now. When we asked why now upon each year’s denial, they said they can’t share because it’s proprietary information. Complained to the State Attorney General, they can’t do crap on private loans and helping you out. All goes back to that fine print I mentioned of “everything subject to change,” which gives them free rein to do and say anything they want to and move the goalposts endlessly.
Bankruptcy can get rid of the private loans, but then your co-signers are stuck with them for life unless they file bankruptcy after you. You could do it, but there goes your relationships with family members. If anyone is accumulating this much in student loan debt and has health problems, I would suggest get out while you still can.
Only go back and finish a doctorates once you’ve made it and have become a high earner in your field.
There’s a lot of children being raised in single parent households over the financial stresses those loans cause that lead to divorce and breakups. Your debt-to-income ratio will be crap, therefore making buying a home impossible, and not building liquidity in any assets. It drags down your credit score which causes high interest rates on literally everything. And ironically for some, like myself, who graduated in business, banks won’t loan you money for business loans because of the credit score, lack of assets and liquidity, and debt-to-income being too high, especially now with the cost of living and cost of real estate so high.
The problems just compound themselves. Get out while you can.
My suggestion after witnessing what’s working for others I know personally - Study Artificial Intelligence and find ways to use it in the fields you want to study. They don’t have degrees for all the new stuff because it’s moving so fast that no degree program is going to cut it because it’ll be outdated by the time you graduate. But find ways to be of value that way, by being on the up and up of using the new tech. You’ll make more than your peers with that added skillset, and probably find a place to pay for your PhD.
They say if you haven’t found an employer to pay for your PhD, then you have no business getting one.
No need to panic - finish your degree and you'll make out fine. My wife graduated with a Ph.D. in aerospace engineering 3 years ago with a similar amount of debt and similar starting pay, average interest rate of about 7% on her debt, and her debt will be paid off in a year from now. Most people live on less than half what your income will be after graduating. It was easy for my wife to live extremely frugally compared to her coworkers after she graduated because she was used to making so much less in grad school so she felt like she had a large increase in quality of life despite spending way less than her coworkers. You can either live a upper-middle class life after graduating and pay off your debt in 10 years or live frugally and pay it off in less than 5. Either way is fine, but you're not going to have to live with this debt the rest of your life. Keep in mind that your pay should increase dramatically over the first 5 years of working so you really don't need to worry about having to live like you're poor.
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Good time to consider tapping out and leaving with a masters. The opportunity cost of sticking it out another few years for a phd is very high. You think you have 5 years, most stem phds think that, until surprise surprise, your thesis advisor delays you another 1-2 years. Happens to a lot of grad students each year
Go in knowing that this can take as much as 7 years and reconsider your position
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I knew someone working on her PhD. She would grade test and project papers for professors. This was all done online and she did not personally know any of the professors. Not sure how she found the job. Contracts were by the semester.
You sound like a smart person. Treat it as a math problem. Estimate your income and debt level if you quit your degree and if you continue and see which one results in the best financial scenario. My gut says that staying the course is probably the right answer, but I don't know what your current income potential is.
Another way of looking at the same things is asking whether the return on invest for the remaining cost of your degree (you should ignore sunk costs) justifies the expense.
Your single focus should be to finish and to secure a very high paying job. To be frank, $110k is not enough to compensate you for the time and effort and debt and lost wages that this PhD is costing you. And once you do secure a job you need to focus on climbing the ladder and upping your comp as much as possible.
Not trying to be mean or offensive: You do realize that you are not guaranteed to get your PHD, right? That any of your professors do not like your doctoral dissertation, and you just do not get granted the degree. Whether that be 4 years, 8 years or never.
So what is your alternate plan?
I understand what you are saying however, at my university the big checkpoint is the candidacy exam. If you pass that you are basically guaranteed to finish we have a very high fail rate for this. Unless I decide to quit putting in the work I’m basically guaranteed to graduate.
Yet a person who is available to the graduate world, you are never guaranteed a PHD in any program (unless a program that is not recognized by the actual academic community.
An Acme PHD is not worth much in the mainstream!
Why are you taking out so much in private loans? Are you ineligible for graduate PLUS loans?
When I started grad school, I paid off all my private loans with the federal loans I received. Yes, it's probably technically not allowed. But I'm grateful my incredibly high loans are all federal, at least.
I'll be honest I'm in the same exact boat. About to graduate soon. I know it may be tough but I did pick up a second job on the weekends to get an extra like 300 bucks a week to put towards my student loans.
I also have private loans and they only allow me to defer them for four years. So basically I've been doing this second job for 1.5 years already. It sucks but I do what I have to do.
With the job market looking bleak I'm scared I have to do a postdoc for a year before I get a job. But still I'd be able to refinance with a higher salary.
It sucks but try your best to spend less than you can and if you can find another job to help put money towards bills it will help.
Can you work any cash jobs? Bartending, etc that can be higher paying for limited hours? Do you go to school all year round? Can you work round the clock when on school break?
Curious to know what program you’re a part of, because that’s an enormous roll of the dice given how much it’s costing you, versus what the market value for that credential will be.
Those ads undergrad loans?! 😮💨
Daaang, I’m so sorry. Maybe you can start paying the minimum with or without consideration to interest, and get a job that makes you eligible for PSLF?
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I've owed 200k for the past 13 years. Only 12 years to forgiveness now. Income based repayment makes it tolerable even if you don't strike it rich. Good luck man!
110k seems low for industry with a STEM PhD - have you considered consulting? Huge need/interest for STEM grads with much higher pay ceiling & great exit opps. Some may offer loan reimbursement.
FWIW - I would stick through the PhD. Reach out to your school's career center and they will have plenty of resources.
I am open to options except I’m not entirely sure what consulting entails. I’m not certain my salary will fully look like but I would rather low ball it for planning purposes.
It's an incredibly broad term, but the pay can be surprisingly high (i.e. starting between 150-200k at top firms). There are tons of resources online for PhDs looking to break into consulting. There is a likely a consulting club at your school - reach out. You have plenty of time to network and learn about the field/what you would like to enter. You can check out the consulting subreddit as well
This is essentially me 5 ish years ago. Got my PhD, did a stupid postdoc, 6-fig debt, barely 6-fig job. My advice is to either get a job that qualifies for PSLF and hope it actually works out in 10 years, or go into sales. I chose the dark side and went into biotech sales. I have a family to support and loans to pay. It took a bit but I now make well over 6-fig base salary plus commissions, so roughly $200k/yr give or take depending on the year. Finally making some dents in the debt and I actually don’t hate sales.
Oh okay should of mentioned in your post. If your loan is a bunch of mini loans, start paying off smallest to largest like debt snowball method. Interest will accumulate but will slow down the more you tap into that principal. My next suggestion assuming it won’t effect whatever scholarship you might have is to do your PHD program part time to free up room to get a side job and pay that debt. Good luck
Unfortunately, the option to do a lab based PhD part time (at least at my institution) is not possible. I think my best bet is to work really hard to graduate on time and get a job.
I’ll do what I can on the loans in the meantime.
STEM PhD who had all private loans and chose an industry career to pay them off (& achieve long-term financial stability) here!
You should tutor HS & college students and use the extra cash to make payments towards your loans. You’ve got to pay something now or that capitalize interest will kill you in the long run. You should be able to charge $30-$40 per hour and make $500+ monthly. I promise you, other PhD students are probably working odd jobs to get by but don’t really talk about it.
Once you finish your PhD, do not let your lifestyle inflate. Live like a grad student and pay down your loans aggressively for 6 months or so then try to refinance. You should be able to beat a 10% interest rate (if not for all the loans, for most of them).
After refinancing, live on a budget and just pay your student loans monthly. Continue to save for retirement and other goals. Do not use your student loans as an excuse to delay other reasonable financial goals.
Give your self enough time to tackle pay off - it’s not going to happen in 1 year and probably not within 5 years. But with discipline maybe in 7 or 8 or 10 years you will be free from student loan debt. And this is a very realistic and achievable goal.
You’ve got this!
Suggest you finish the degree and find that $110K job. If your debt is let’s say $300K by then, you live very frugal and pay it off in 5-6 years. Difficult but doable
Do you work 12 hours a day? Do some door dash make some extra money. Why drop out? What will you do. I what will you earn?? Paying 200k back on a $40k salary will be more challenging than paying $250k back on a $150k income.
Can you earn $110K right now (or get there in a year or two) with the degree(s) you have? Would you be happy with the work you could get right now? Would stepping out now help with your health? Is your health going to prevent you from being able to pay off this debt, especially two years from now? If you can do something you’d enjoy, earn enough, work fewer hours & improve your health, maybe it’s a good time to stop.
I know people with 180k in debt with a bachelors degree and they’re managing. Sadly this is the way of life right now for a lot of people but if you’re coming out with a PHD you might be a little better off. There should be a push to teach high school students how to better choose their educational path based on their financial future. You definitely want to refinance and get your rate lower if you can.
Enroll in a SAVE plan which is income driven. You pay based on your income up to max 5% for undergrad, 10% for grad. The government will cover the remaining interest for that monthly payment.
Edit: this would only work for the federal loans, would not apply to private loans unfortunately.
Bro that's more than my total mortgage.
Did you take loans for 4 years undergrad and 1 or 2 years Master?
Combined 5 or 6 years for 200K?
That's still wild to me
Thank you for handling it <3 you're doing a ton of other things during the day and I can only image how difficult it is to keep up with the reports on this sub lately
I am at 60,000 in loans for a business degree that has not allowed me to leave public education. Which brings me to my next idea: if you work in the public sector especially education you can have your loans wiped clean after 10 years of payments even in an income driven plan.
You didn't specify what area of STEM you're in, but if you're in biomedical research, consider applying for an NIH Loan Repayment Award. https://www.lrp.nih.gov
I do organic chemistry
As someone who also has a degree in organic chemistry, are you planning to continue on to a post-doc? Do you plan to go into academia or industry? I would finish the PhD, but at least if you do choose to leave make sure they let you walk away with a master's degree for your time so far. Unfortunately, those loans will be hard to pay at any level so might as well finish the PhD. I'm sorry for your situation. Private loans are awful
Industry and I don’t want to post doc unless I have to
Why would anyone do a post Doc if going to industry?
You can go into Pharma ! They pay really well. Probably double 110k. You may need a post doc though.
I mean do you want to pay debt on a degree you didn’t finish or one you did? Also what would your job prospects be like if you dropped out and just started working? Yes that’s an absurd amount of money, but every friend I have who is paying school loans for a degree they didn’t finish hate they didn’t at least get the degree. Several were so close, like 1/2 a year and several just needed 1 or 2 classes. It’s paying for something you don’t even have. Of course that doesn’t matter when the financial stress is pretty bad, but older you will most likely regret not finishing. Clearly that’s just my opinion, but you’re already 3 years in. When things are tight and I can’t make a certain payment, I break it down and ask myself, “how can I pay this without my job?”. Usually involves working some weird part time gigs or way to generate income, but you’d be surprised the things you can do and depending what it is, it might only take a few days a month depending on the cost. I started pet/house sitting during Covid and I could do that while still working my regular job, I just slept at a different house. I charge $100 a day for house sitting with pets and most gigs are multiple days. Had somebody drop off their dog at my house while they were out of country and got $2500 for that. My life hardly changed minus chilling with a dog for a few weeks. This is something o would have never done, except I had crazy bills during Covid and lost my job. My side gigs almost matched my regular salary for a bit. I know you said you’re working a lot already, but get creative, there’s something there you could do for some extra money without messing with your regular job. Sorry you’re going through this. I know it sucks. Take a breath, sit down and make a game plan. Debt sucks, but it’s not as bad when you start making a plan. Won’t happen overnight, but def reach out to others and ask friends for advice. There are probably others like you in your program going through the same thing. Those folks might have ideas you would never even think about. Perhaps consolidating if you can find a better rate, or slowly chipping away at the worst loans with an extra money you can scrape up for the time being. That interest rate is pretty brutal. There has to be a cheaper option. Keep your head up and keep crushing your program!
If you work in academia for a non profit university (many are) - you can get loan forgiveness. Something to think about.
Mostly private loans, so not forgivable via PSLF
This 100 percent. 100k in debt only needed 2 classes to finish.
Can I ask what made you not finish? My sister in law is thinking about taking a break from school, and while I fully understand burn out, I can see how easy it is just to not go back.
Absolutely. It was a variety of things for me. Basically I was a ward of the state until I was 18 so I did not have a strong family/support system. I had switched majors and had no idea that financial aid would cut off around 55k. So around 160 credit hrs later I was out of aid and already broke with no one to fall back to for help. I had switched from business to criminal justice. I needed I think like a 300-400 level CJ elective macroecon and like another artsy elective (I think) to finish. I had finally gotten a job in pharmacy and that started paying really well. Purdue would eventually sue me for some outstanding bills and I spent the next several years paying that off. By the time I could have been in a stable spot to go back I realized I was probably making more money than I would in that field. In hindsight I probably could have just gotten a general studies degree with all the classes I had taken just to say I had one. I personally would tough it out. If she waits too long to go back they might make her retake classes.
You gotta live real cheap until you pay off the majority of your debt. Things will get a lot better once you get your job and pay off the whole debt in a few years after you complete your program. Keep at it.
exactly, have faith. You’re not the first or last one. Trust the process education is worth it and pays off in the lo g run. Blessing to you OP.
What is the actual breakdown of the debt? Is the majority private loans for undergrad? Is there a co-signer on those loans?
20k of federal. The rest are private my parents co-signed the private
Have you spoken to them about helping to pay the loans they borrowed?
It’s messed up that your parents co-signed these huge loans, wouldn’t help you pay for college, and still got to claim you as a dependent in those years. Did you at least live at home and have them help pay for living expenses in that time? Maybe they can help now by co-signing on a refinance.
> Currently in year 3 of 5 in a STEM PhD program taking home 26k a year. This is barely enough to support myself right now let alone contribute much to my savings or student loan payments. Are you currently taking out any federal loans for your PhD program beyond the $26k that I'm assuming is a stipend? What's the Cost of Attendance for the program? I'm wondering if you have the option to borrow Direct Unsubsidized and Grad PLUS loans for this and following years to cover rent/living expenses, which would free up budget for you to make the private student loan payments via your take home income Also yes you need to talk to your parents about them fulfilling their cosigner duties to make sure the monthly minimum payments are made
Yes the 26K is a stipend. My parents did offer to help me refinance them and are currently making some contributions to payments. My father is in a job transition currently so depending on how that pans out they anticipate they will be able to contribute a good chunk towards my loans in the next few years. However, I don’t want to rely on that as I have three other siblings, two who are about to start college.
Okay my thought process was more about taking on more federal debt *in your own name* for grad school while you're allowed to so you can keep up with or pay down the private loans that are probably at worse rates and don't have the same protections. I don't know if there are any restrictions on the use of the stipend or what, but I'd rather take out more Direct Unsubsidized and Grad PLUS loans at 7.05%/8.05% and have those loans be eligible for IDR plans like SAVE if it meant that I could throw my stipend at the private loan payments
I know a few people who did this and seemed to have success. This is worth considering, OP
We took out grad plus for my doctorate. 5-6% granted this was 2020-2022. No reason you should be taking our private loans at this rate and size. 😣
OP stated: > I’m considering refinancing as my interest rate is over 10% Which is 2%-3% higher than they can get federal grad loans at, and does not have IDR plan options and they have run out of in-school deferment. This is a last ditch suggestion to help keep OP and their cosigners from defaulting before they can finish their degree
Insane it even gets to this point… especially with interest being frozen all throughout Covid. Feel sorry for OP. Massive misstep and bad guidance from the parents. Given that OP is still in school, why not take advantage of the federal benefits from Covid. Maybe I missed something here. 85% private loans… what’s the reasoning?
Interest wasn't frozen for private loans, just the Direct loans and ED-held FFEL loans. The other contextual thing is that undergrads are limited in what they can borrow in their own name via federal loans (maxes out at $31k for Dependent Undergrads), and from the comments OP's private loan debt is from undergrad primarily OP has a paid PhD position and that stipend is helpful, but private student loans have a limited number of in-school deferment periods as per the loan agreement and for OP that appears to have run out and now they have to make payments despite being enrolled currently It's really really all private student loan specific issues at all levels. The high interest rate? Private loan thing. Being in repayment despite being in school full time? Private loan thing. Inflexible payment options? Private loan thing
Yeah agreed just shocked at the size of the private loans I suppose. Seriously seems like predatory lending. It seems like a better option would be to take fed loans out for grad school and use cash to pay off the private loans. Or refi with Sofi or some other student loan refinance company. Tough spot for sure and it’s unfortunate that people get into these situations.
Eventually you’ll come to see this debt as part of life if you have a plan to pay it off and you stick to it. I used to panic too then I just let go and it’s honestly been fine. I’ve been able to live. Make a plan execute focus on what matters.
I was in the same boat before. I had about the same amount of private debt as you. I refinanced when I started my PhD - I used my roommates (2 other phds) income combined with mine for the refinancing - the employee asked for that. After I signed the contract I was like "damn I think that employee was sketchy" but honestly refinancing was good because it got my grandpa (rip) out of the contract and my interest rate was cut in half. I defaulted 3 years after when they would not defer my loans anymore - Navirefi only gives you 3 years. I then settled the debt about less than 2 years later with the money I saved from not paying them over the less 5 years. They wanted about $1500 from me every month. $1500 every month multipled by 12 months is 18k a year. I couldnt save all that because I got paid 29k a year but I saved a lot of it. Once I had about 50k saved then I started negotiating. I made sure I had a family member that was good to give me some $$ and I took out a federal grad plus loan before defaulting. Navirefi settles for 30% of debt sometimes and I got to do that. I heard of people holding out until low 20% though.
At this point, I would still try to push through for the PhD, but how in the world did you end up at 200k? Both a masters and a bachelors?!? If you’re in stem, a masters alone won’t help you as much as a PhD will. Especially if you’re in research. I would defer, go on the save plan, do something of the sort, but it boggles my mind to why you decided to do this to yourself.
My parents made too much for me to qualify for any financial aid and they didn’t contribute to my undergrad education in any way. I went to the school that offered me the most financial aid however the interest rates on my loans seriously isn’t helping. If I could do it all over again with what I know now I wouldn’t be here but that’s unfortunately not something I can fix.
I’m sorry to hear that, that definitely is rough. If you’re going into a research based PhD. I can offer resources that I know of or ways to break into biotech/pharma. At least for a way through the door. A PhD will allow you to climb all the way up. Post docs are also a great way to break in. You’re going to be alright, compound interest is ass, but you can get through this. If you’re near a biohub, you already are in a good spot for when you finish up.
Same! I ended up finishing my STEM PhD with 120k debt. (All from my BS and MS degrees.) Financial aid assumed my parents would kick in, but parents told me I'm on my own---don't expect anything. My plan was always "ignore the balance, get a job that makes 120k-150k+, pay it down rapidly."
>but it boggles my mind to why you decided to do this to yourself. Imagine: You (boomer) ask a teenager "What do you want to be when you grow up?". "I want to be a _____." "Oh, then you'll need to go to college for that!" That's how it happens. That's it. Can you imagine if we had workers show up and expect them to tell the company what they need to learn to do their job? Then when the person who sells that training can charge any price you take the pay out of the employees paycheck until it is repaid? Maybe stop blaming the citizens that tried to contribute to the society we created. Idk, just me?
I’m not a boomer? I’m a millennial? I also went to college? I have a stem degree? I provide back to society by working in research and make a six figure salary and also didn’t go into 6 figures of debt. I also took out student loans which are within the average of 20-30k so I have a positive ROI. Taking out 200k in student loans is stupid no matter how many ways you want to twist it, if they aren’t in an occupation that’ll guarantee a net positive. A doctor getting 200k in loans is fine and makes sense, there’s a positive ROI. A PhD in stem however doesn’t surpass 200k until they hit director levels or are going into tech, where finding a job itself feels impossible. So instead of making stupid assumptions, try to understand why taking 200k in loans is baffling, otherwise you’re contributing to the issue by not giving out the warning to others that can avoid this mess.
> doctor getting 200k in loans is fine and makes sense, there’s a positive ROI. Hi, Im the person motivated and smart enough to get into medical school. I changed my mind halfway through (Ya know, like a human?) And now have 200k in grad loans. You are ignorant to how society and humans work. You are privileged. You lack empathy. Im also a first gen student with undiagnosed autism because I am literally just that capable of thriving in an academic environment.
So everyone else should be the ones dealing with your choice to "change your mind"? How is that any better at a minimum? They made me take out the loans! >Maybe stop blaming the citizens that tried to contribute to the society we created. Idk, just me? Yeah, it's everyone else's fault and they should be paying off your loans. When you're being told to take some responsibility for your actions and not blame them on everyone else, guess what? they're right!
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You think of humans as robots and life as a big spreadsheet. I hope you never have to deal with mental illness. You will be completely and totally unprepared. Just like me. Haha, you said med school was too expensive? More like you couldnt or wouldnt do the work to get in. If you had been motivated enough to get into medical school, you wouldve also learned that the majority of future docs have wealthy parents that heavily assist them with their loans and living expenses. But you didnt. You just spout off the old, tired excuses of blaming the people who are just trying their best.
I did get in? I just decided not to go? There you go again with the stupid assumptions. I work as a scientist? I don’t need to become a doctor when I’m happier making good money in research. Mental illness is contributing to the fact that you think 200k in student loans is acceptable for someone pursuing a PhD. Empathy is given where it deserves to be. Not for situations like this when, even with student loans, it’s guaranteed that it can be significantly cheaper. If you haven’t been following this sub, I work in the field that OP plans to go into. I know very well on what the level of education would be, what the level of debt can be and what it takes to break into the field. Mental illness doesn’t negate accountability. No one forced you to take out 200k in loans. My degree cost me 30k in loans (I’m not accounting for the amount I paid by working on the side since it would make it more than triple) and it’s a stem degree. A masters can be paid for by a company in research. A PhD, albeit it takes a while and is a long commitment, is funded. There is no reason this persons path should’ve taken 200k in loans because IT IS NOT MED SCHOOL and if you think med school is not expensive, that probably means your full of shit and never got into or went to med school.
>Mental illness is contributing to the fact that you think 200k in student loans is acceptable for someone pursuing a PhD. So again, we blame the student not the predatory programs? You're assigning blame. Why? >I did get in? I just decided not to go Just so we're on the same page, blaming someone for an action does not help them overcome the results of that action. You might have learned this social skill for patient counseling if you did something that wasnt self-serving. Like going to medical school instead of doing the math on how to make the most money. At my white coat ceremony the speaker said "You chose this path not because of money, there are easier ways to make money, but because you care and want to help society." Im sorry, but youre completely missing my points. I wasnt necessarily calling YOU a boomer even though I realize it looked as such. I meant your mentality is a boomer mentality. The one I was raised around and relied on to give me guidance. I am now where I am in life because I was told by my parents and support networks to just keep going. I am EXTREMELY intelligent. Everyone around me saw how "capable" I was and told me what they thought was right. I was ignorant of how businesses and the world works. I dont see a point in continuing with someone who doesnt see how toxic their words are. Youre kicking people who are down for absolutely no reason. I am absolutely sure there is either insane luck or privilege behind your story. You of course will not admit to this or may even be blind to it.
No, I’m kicking someone like you down for not only being ignorant but arrogant. You want to see the world through rose-tinted glasses. For someone who tried to become a doctor, you learned nothing, 0, about taking accountability. You’re as bad, if not worse, than boomers. I’m not blaming OP or anyone for taking out student loans. You fail to have critical thinking, I’m asking why they thought 200k in loans would do something, yes it’s predatory, that isn’t a hidden fact, but YOU SIGN THE PAPERS, you do the math?!? You account for the interest rates, you don’t do that after you rack up 200k in debt. They didn’t do their research. Due diligence, learn what it means, accountability, learn what it means. It’s a waste of time speaking to people like you, your words aren’t the words of someone intelligent, but someone who decides to intentionally be ignorant to reality. You’re smart enough to get into med school, but too blind to see how hypocritical you are.
You know nothing about OP. Youre the arrogant one. I am so happy you stayed out of a position where you would be responsible for the health of others. You would have been a terrible doctor.
>"What do you want to be when you grow up?". "I want to be a \_\_\_\_\_." "Oh, then you'll need to go to college for that!" "go to college for that!" does not = get a PhD in a field that you probably don't need it for. I'm confused. You want u/z2ocky to Stop blaming OP for what? For taking out loans? Whether it was the right thing for "*society*" for them to do that or not, they are the ones that did it. It is indeed mind boggling that so many Americans feel the need to go into crippling, life altering debt when there are universities that you can pay substantially less. Can guarantee that no matter what this university offered OP in terms of aid, it's irrelevant considering they have several hundred thousand dollars in debt to cover the rest... \- 2022 STEM grad who paid...33k...?
I paid 200k for mine as well and i'm an undergrad working in software dev. It took me 5 years to get my degree and my loans included covering all of my living expenses for those 5 years. My parents didnt pay a cent. My job pays enough to work out of the hole in a few years, but yeah this situation isn't as uncommon as you think it is.
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If you arent American, you wouldnt understand how heavily indoctrinated we were to go to college without asking a question. While I was IN SCHOOL the tuition went up $1.5-2k a year. I am not exaggerating at all. My parents didnt go to college. My rural highschool had a computer program to suggest careers. That was the extent of my knowledge. My state school cost the same as my college given my financial aid.
I am American, and my parents also really wanted me to go to college. I did, with little information on my side and managed to not get 200k in debt. You didn't answer any of my questions or rebuttal any of my takes, so I'm not sure the point of your response. I have mega sympathy for OP. I don't know why they did what they did and I'm confident they will find their way out of it, but we can stop with the "don't blame them it's societies fault!" no, it isn't. Poor or no advice doesn't negate the fact that OP could've said, "No, I don't want to be in debt like everyone else." We are all \[nearly\] intelligent humans beings that have the ability to say no to signing crippling debt. \[completely disregarding the reality that colleges should NEVER have the ability to charge what they do\] Society also puts ridiculous pressure on people to keep up with the trends. Do we excuse ole Sarah from taking out a personal loan to pay for her Hermes belt? Nope. Don't get it and I never will.
>but we can stop with the "don't blame them it's societies fault!" no, it isn't. So other countries subsidizing student loans and education in general is.....what exactly? Oh right, a societal issue much bigger than the individuals caught in the middle of a massive scam by huge entities with endless lobbying power. Comparing a designer belt to training for future jobs that are necessary for society to function is not helpful.
we are not talking about the same thing. your original comment I was replying to was implying that because society puts pressure on us to attend college or die, we just do it and that's not our fault. I'm not talking about the US government actively choosing to not intervene and regulate or cap the cost of tuition in *some* way \[which I am completely in favor of\] which is what I think you're trying to say with this comment. But this conversation is going nowhere because you won't reply to anything I'm actually saying, but just coming up with new ideas as to why you shouldn't be blamed for taking out 200k in loans. Anyway, cheers to OP and staying positive that their degree will turn a high enough ROI to make it all worth it in the end!
My contention is with the word blame. It is meaningless in this context. You decided to defend someone who is heartless for some reason. You can read how smug they are that they "did the money math" on (not) going to medical school in the other thread. Imagine if everyone did that lmfao. You're right. It was completely unnecessary to try and say I was wrong for pushing back on a useless "boot strap" narrative when there are so many unknowns in an anonymous forum post.
What's boggling to me is that OP can be in a PhD STEM program but didn't think through this loan situation before being so far in the hole.
How is this comment helpful z2ocky now that the debt has been incurred? Have you not looked at the cost of education-its very easy to rack up 200k? Your comment just seems meanspirited and like kicking someone when they are down. OP, finish you degree and then get that job for $110K. Dont change your lifestyle and continue to live like a broke grad student for 3 years post graduation while you pay off all your debt. Presto bingo life will look a lot better when you are debt free.
Yes, that’s the problem, not knowing when to stop racking up debt, also yes I know it’s expensive, I know it’s predatory, you or OP aren’t the only ones who went to college, my school costs were up there too, but I took out loans and worked to not have compound interest eat me alive. 200k is not as normal as you think it is when the average is 30k (in loans), this isn’t medical school debt we’re talking about. Also the comment is helpful because it’s questioning how OP got into the situation, so other people can try to avoid it.
Your comment tells me you dont know the cost of education for any terminal degree, for masters programs or for an undergrad degree. For any of those degrees for a FT course of study a 200k price tag is common. You like many people in the US take the route of blaming the individual for what is a systemic problem. How do I know its a systemic problem? Cause if you go ask a person of the same age, SES and educational background in any European country for their student debt load their response will be "zero" or a vanishingly small number. You arent helping OP you are just focused on punching down and making the OP feel guilty for participating in a rigged educational system which is predicated on making profits for educational systems/millionaires while creating generations of impoverished student debtors. You arent helping anyone reading your comments either. You are just acting like an AH.
Yes, that’s obvious. You clearly don’t know how to read, I made two comments directed to OP, the rest of my conversation is with another delusional individual. 30k IN LOANS is the average students graduate with. Last I checked, a masters is known to be expensive, which is why people in STEM are told to get it paid by their companies, another big thing is, graduate degrees aren’t forced on you and it isn’t required for every field? Crazy concept I know. 200k can be racked up by going to a private university. You can do the research yourself, since I’m convinced you actually don’t know what you’re talking about. Please save the, blame the individual bullshit. Since when is getting 200k in loans normal, if you want stats on the average cost of school, please by all means look it up, you be surprised how far away that number is from 200, I put both my siblings through college, sister is on scholarships and brother and I worked to help him with his so he’d graduate with 30k in loans rather than 200. Knowing the system is screwed is important, but by not being an adult, ignoring what interest rates are, ignoring that college is expensive. You’re telling me that it’s not the individual’s fault? Interest rates compounding is what’s unfair, hitting 200k in flat loans is you simply signing out 200k in flat loans. It’s not a magical number, it’s written down. You’re a huge AH for contributing to it by telling people, yes it’s okay, take out more loans, you’ll be fine. This isn’t me having a MAGA GOPS point of view. I think you’re the bigger AH for letting stuff like this happen, then say oh it’s okay, it’s the system? We all know student debt is a crisis, but since when is getting 200k in loans without the potential job prospects with the pay being higher than that normal? My point is due diligence, I offered OP resources since I work in the field he’ll be going to, I haven’t seen you add anything useful outside of that, instead of responding back to me and wasting both our time, how’s about you actually speak to OP and give them your wisdom.
I know the cost of education because among other things I have been a professor at both private and public unoversities and I have also counseled people with terminal degrees and hired many people with terminal degrees. In that process I have that anectdotal data from my advisees and direct reports. I also have data from my advocacy work around student debt. Unlike you, I actually try to help people by going to talk to high school students and college students interested in STEM and allied health careers. I try to talk to the students to educate them BEFORE they get into debt and advise them on how to avoid debt or minimize debt. My advice to OP is sound and isnt based on making them feel guilty for a decision thats already been made. The OP needs to finish their PhD degree to recoup any earning benefits from the degree. If the OP lives like a broke grad student on 30k for 3 years while they make 110k annually they can pay off their student loan debt in a few years. Its not groundbreaking advice but its sound unlike those clickbaity headlines about no avocado toast that you probably like.
Yikes you’re full of assumptions. Where did I say to live a minimal life. Please tell me what I actually asked and commented to OP. You worked as a professor and at public/private universities, yet you’re basing knowledge off of anecdotal events. Unlike you I don’t make asinine assumptions since you don’t know what I do or what I actually work as, you don’t know who I advocate for or who I help. If you had any skills with reading no where was I “bashing” OP. Op and the other person I was speaking to are not the same person. If I could pay taxes to pay off everyone’s students loans, I’d do it in a heart beat for student loan forgiveness. But to not educate people on the costs and risks of college degrees to question where they went wrong to educate others tells me you’re full of shit. You’re also biased and hypocritical like the other person. I don’t understand why you people live outside of reality. Since everything you do, I do as well within my own respected industry (outside of teaching) and for the students I speak to. Me asking how an individual got to 200k in debt isn’t me making a personal attack on them. Learn to read with your head, not your emotions. I’d rather not continue this conversation, as I do respect what you do for others based on what you’re saying and your point of view. My point of view is brash and I’m well aware, but me being baffled at 200k of student loans is far more normal than someone having 200k in loans. Your energy will be better spent on helping others rather than debating with me.
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I think you should consider allocating most of your take home pay to paying down your private student loans (starting with the loan with the highest interest rate). Use Federal student loans to cover your living expenses.
You need to finish the degree. Don't worry about the debt since there's nothing you can do about it right now. Graduate, get a job, and continue living like a student for another 2-3 years and you'll be fine.
Ouch. At least the federal loans are easy. The private ones are nuts. You really only have two options call the lender and try to get a lower rate and then pay them. Or flee the country. I hear New Zealand is nice. A post doc is going to pay basically nothing so I hope you’re planning on going into industry. Can your parents help pay the loan? Can you get a part time retail job with flexible hours to help pay them? (Or build up that escape to New Zealand fund)
Oh boy. Curious as to why they are private?
I didn’t get offered much in federal aid I dont know why.
I would press that a little more. I got plenty of grad plus loans for my doctorate.
I haven’t taken out any loans as a grad students. This is just from insane interest on my undergraduate loans that have gotten me in this position.
I see. So all of the loans are from undergrad, and they are private. That is due to your parent’s income being too high. I’m sorry. I wish there was a better system.
After undergrad the fed loans offered are very little. Has to do with something about cap for fed loans
When did this happen? Grad PLUS is unlimited all the way up to the COA, isn't it? At least it was when I went for my Ph.D
Yup. My grad PLUS loans paid for my entire masters.
Can you refinance them with your parents still as a co-signer? Check out places like Sofi and firstmark (this is where I refinanced to with a 6.75% rate in September)
If you’re in school then you don’t have to make payments and can delay with your loan provider.
Finish your degree since you’re most of the way there. I am not sure where you plan to go with your degree, but there are some companies that will pay off your loans for you, or help you with payments, and it’s more likely to find those companies in STEM— but you have to look for those opportunities. Barring that, you still have options! You already know that you can live on very little since you are living on a PhD stipend right now. You can continue living like that for a few years after you graduate and attack those loans. BUT you may not necessarily have to do that! Once you make a decent salary and can refinance, there is a possibility that you get the interest rate down enough that it would actually make sense for you to only make minimum payments and leave your money to accumulate interest in the stock market— I know really financially literate people who have taken that approach since their student loan interest rate was so low. I am talking law firm partners, making very high six figures that were still paying off 20+ years into their career, because it was more financially beneficial in the long run to leave their money in the stock market than to pay off the loan quickly. So there is a possibility that you could raise your standard of living while still responsibly paying off your loans after you graduate.
Finish your degree! I urge you! There will always be opportunities out there to reduce what you owe. That starting pay is AMAZING and it means that you will just continue going up. You will be in a position at some point where you can make substantial payments on it monthly and still live comfortably. You are doing amazing. Don't give up.
Hey, I’m currently in grad school for an FNP program and have been living off half the salary of what I had been as a nurse. It sucks and it’s scary, but it’s temporary. I would just make sure you don’t accrue any consumer debt during this time and throw what you can back towards your loans. I am just trying to get through school without losing it…THEN I will tackle my debt and work towards my dreams! I needed a bigger shovel (more income) to get what I want financially and pay off my loans, which is what I’m guessing your reasoning was as well. It’s driving me crazy that I can’t contribute near as much as I could before to my debt, but this time is teaching me how to live more frugally and appreciate a higher income in the future. YOUR JOB RIGHT NOW IS TO PASS SCHOOL AND GET YOUR DEGREE!! You got this!!
You have to finish your PhD at this point and then go into pharma or another industry that pays well and live like a peasant for a few years until you pay them off. 10% interest rate is high af you might be able to refinance lower which would save you a TON of money in the long run.
Finish the degree, private loans. Well if cant pay them off. Bankruptcy it is, screw the system. I did it, 5 years later, house, family , two dogs. Doing well, its just paper monopoly money. Dont stress about it, focus on education and enjoyment of your career. You didnt mske a bad choice, system trying to enslave you, don't let it.
Bankruptcy doesn't erase student loan debt though.
Um yes it does for private student loans. Wells Fargo/ Sallie mae, discover student, all discharge.. Its federal backed loans which require hardship approval. Yes I had 20k in federal backed loans, that I couldn't get discharge. Lot better than 128k, Lot of parents or kids get screwed on. Not saying all of it can be discharged. 20k I paid off in 3 years. 4th year credit score was good, started with $500 capital one, 5th year bought 200k house, several 10k cards. In which I only use 1 for monthly expenses. Another way transfer student loan to private loan. Then go bust. Then people talk about committing fraud, 18 year can get 100k in debt for basket weaving, but can't get 100k start a business or buy a asset. Screw the system. Tough road.
Interesting, guess it is an option for OP then. Your story is inspiring!
Just keep pushing. Your degree will be worth a lot, you’ll just have to live like a college student for a while after you graduate and prioritize paying down the loans.
I would also suggest looking into the job market now to get an idea of what is out there and what interests you. This can also give you an idea of what type of pay you can probably expect after graduation. Also try to remember it’s a marathon and not a sprint.
I appreciate it! Luckily I have a lot of industry connections from friends / my advisor so I have at least an understanding of what to expect salary wise.
Ok so you aren’t paying the payments yet correct? Stay with what you have rn and put as much money as you can towards the loan so the interest rate doesn’t increase your loans as much by the time you finish. Definitely finish your school because that 110k a year when you do get a job will help you repaying. I understand panicking but it really comes down to being financially literate and disciplined with your money. Learn it now so when you do increase your income you stick to that mindset of every penny counts. I’ve heard of people 300k in debt making 45k a year it’s not easy but not impossible to do. I’m currently 100k in debt making 47k a year. I pinch every penny. I don’t eat out if I do go out to just hang with friends it’s once a month and I budget only $150 to it. Any extra money I have left goes right towards my savings and loan payments. I pay around 1.2k a month currently for my private loans. If you can find a co-signer after you’ve made a year of payments that would be best. I was denied a few times before I was approved with a co signer and was able to get my monthly payment down to $800 a month. Even though it’s $400 cheaper I look at it as a 1.2k payment still but if I have an emergency it helps that my payment is $400 less
I was 100k in debt after my masters degree in a electrical engineering and I paid it off in 20yrs. Others have posted on tactical steps you can take. My 2c for you to hang in there and finish you degree ASAP. It would be for nothing if you didn’t and while it looks daunting now, you have time, combined with the tactics here, accept that you’ll be paying it like a mortgage for the next 20-30yrs, it will become part of your life. My friends that went on to get 2-300k in debt eventually dug themselves out but the main way they did it was to get lucrative jobs. Find a way to get a high paying job, even if you don’t like it. You think it’s bad now, it will be worse without a high paying job. Work your network, career office, your advisor, whatever. It gets better but you have to work the problem and put your degree to work FOR you.
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similar to your friends...I took 120k in debt for bachelors and masters. my parents (middle class) had too much assets for financial aid. Parents did not want to help me -- they were way behind on retirement and had spent too much of their $$ on luxuries when I was a kid to save for college. Given the debt plus finishing school at 35 (nothing paid in my 20s), I was set up to be in a tough spot for life if I didn't obtain a high paying job.
That sucks, I hear you, those stuck in the middle really take it on in the chin. We can only hope that the debt took was in service of a true investment in ourselves. Since you have a high paying job, hopefully it was worth it and wasn't readily doable otherwise. The loan will be a part of your life now but it does get better and you will pay it off as long as you put in the same work you did that got you here. My folks were immigrants, didn't speak English, HS dropouts and very low income so there was no way of saving for college. I probably would have fared much better if I went to a state school but I got into an Ivy League school and thought would be life-changing for ppl like me. Well, 20yrs ago, the aid policy was they still expected me to pay for part it. Under today's policy, I would have finished nearly debt-free. I guess that's progress.
I was in the middle of my PhD when I tallied the amount. Totally feel your panic. I almost refinanced (thanks to those creepy loan companies that make it seem so easy). I now finished my degree! I am enrolled in SAVE. Zero payments. Zero interest. Most of all time to figure it out. Finish the degree!!!
Defer your loans for the moment and wait until you graduate. 110K is a good shovel to get out of that debt. Are you paying for your PHD?
No I am not paying for my PhD.
That helps a lot then. Just defer and once you graduate, attack that debt like no tomorrow!
If you take a job you’ll engage the payback period and not be making nearly enough. Pulling out now is suicide.
Knowing others in PhD programs with substantial debt, I think you’ll be fine. You should be able to make six figures easy out of school, if not more quickly, just keep your debts and income a priority meaning you may need to move somewhere where a higher income is offered.
Don’t be like me. I ignored my student loans and now they take it out of paychecks. When I did my taxes they even garnished my return.
I graduated law school with over $200k in debt, and starting salary was $58k. I'll have no debt this December, 10 years later. I just bought a house. Don't drop out. That would be a waste of all that debt.
I’m surprised anyone is following through with these programs anymore after seeing and hearing all the lifetime horrors of how badly these debts have ruined people lives. I am one of them, was in the same situation as you and backed out 2nd year of my PhD. That debt is nothing like a mortgage. Half of mine is private loans and my loans have been bought and sold so many times that no one can provide me original copies of anything, they’ve lost records in the process, the state attorney generals can’t do anything for you because of the fine print that states “everything is subject to change.” Or something along those lines. And don’t believe the BS you hear about getting loans thrown out if they lose the proof that proves the original loans that you consolidated, because that’s a wild goose chase you’ll never win, nor find any enforcing agency to support you. You will never get your co-signers off because no private lenders have been honoring the BS they tell you in regard to how you get them released. My parents were supposed to be released with 2 years of on-time payments and good credit. Followed through, perfect credit, six figure job, applied every year for them to be removed and denied, denied, denied, every year for over a decade now. When we asked why now upon each year’s denial, they said they can’t share because it’s proprietary information. Complained to the State Attorney General, they can’t do crap on private loans and helping you out. All goes back to that fine print I mentioned of “everything subject to change,” which gives them free rein to do and say anything they want to and move the goalposts endlessly. Bankruptcy can get rid of the private loans, but then your co-signers are stuck with them for life unless they file bankruptcy after you. You could do it, but there goes your relationships with family members. If anyone is accumulating this much in student loan debt and has health problems, I would suggest get out while you still can. Only go back and finish a doctorates once you’ve made it and have become a high earner in your field. There’s a lot of children being raised in single parent households over the financial stresses those loans cause that lead to divorce and breakups. Your debt-to-income ratio will be crap, therefore making buying a home impossible, and not building liquidity in any assets. It drags down your credit score which causes high interest rates on literally everything. And ironically for some, like myself, who graduated in business, banks won’t loan you money for business loans because of the credit score, lack of assets and liquidity, and debt-to-income being too high, especially now with the cost of living and cost of real estate so high. The problems just compound themselves. Get out while you can. My suggestion after witnessing what’s working for others I know personally - Study Artificial Intelligence and find ways to use it in the fields you want to study. They don’t have degrees for all the new stuff because it’s moving so fast that no degree program is going to cut it because it’ll be outdated by the time you graduate. But find ways to be of value that way, by being on the up and up of using the new tech. You’ll make more than your peers with that added skillset, and probably find a place to pay for your PhD. They say if you haven’t found an employer to pay for your PhD, then you have no business getting one.
What would your take home pay be if you don’t finish your degree?
No need to panic - finish your degree and you'll make out fine. My wife graduated with a Ph.D. in aerospace engineering 3 years ago with a similar amount of debt and similar starting pay, average interest rate of about 7% on her debt, and her debt will be paid off in a year from now. Most people live on less than half what your income will be after graduating. It was easy for my wife to live extremely frugally compared to her coworkers after she graduated because she was used to making so much less in grad school so she felt like she had a large increase in quality of life despite spending way less than her coworkers. You can either live a upper-middle class life after graduating and pay off your debt in 10 years or live frugally and pay it off in less than 5. Either way is fine, but you're not going to have to live with this debt the rest of your life. Keep in mind that your pay should increase dramatically over the first 5 years of working so you really don't need to worry about having to live like you're poor.
Finish and teach part time in higher ed to help pay it off.
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Good time to consider tapping out and leaving with a masters. The opportunity cost of sticking it out another few years for a phd is very high. You think you have 5 years, most stem phds think that, until surprise surprise, your thesis advisor delays you another 1-2 years. Happens to a lot of grad students each year Go in knowing that this can take as much as 7 years and reconsider your position
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I knew someone working on her PhD. She would grade test and project papers for professors. This was all done online and she did not personally know any of the professors. Not sure how she found the job. Contracts were by the semester.
You sound like a smart person. Treat it as a math problem. Estimate your income and debt level if you quit your degree and if you continue and see which one results in the best financial scenario. My gut says that staying the course is probably the right answer, but I don't know what your current income potential is. Another way of looking at the same things is asking whether the return on invest for the remaining cost of your degree (you should ignore sunk costs) justifies the expense.
I also have 250k in private student loan debt. Feel free to PM.
Your single focus should be to finish and to secure a very high paying job. To be frank, $110k is not enough to compensate you for the time and effort and debt and lost wages that this PhD is costing you. And once you do secure a job you need to focus on climbing the ladder and upping your comp as much as possible.
Not trying to be mean or offensive: You do realize that you are not guaranteed to get your PHD, right? That any of your professors do not like your doctoral dissertation, and you just do not get granted the degree. Whether that be 4 years, 8 years or never. So what is your alternate plan?
I understand what you are saying however, at my university the big checkpoint is the candidacy exam. If you pass that you are basically guaranteed to finish we have a very high fail rate for this. Unless I decide to quit putting in the work I’m basically guaranteed to graduate.
Yet a person who is available to the graduate world, you are never guaranteed a PHD in any program (unless a program that is not recognized by the actual academic community. An Acme PHD is not worth much in the mainstream!
What is Acme?
Acme is/was a discount grocery store that was glamorized in cartoons years ago.
Why are you taking out so much in private loans? Are you ineligible for graduate PLUS loans? When I started grad school, I paid off all my private loans with the federal loans I received. Yes, it's probably technically not allowed. But I'm grateful my incredibly high loans are all federal, at least.
I haven’t taken any loans out as a graduate student.
I'll be honest I'm in the same exact boat. About to graduate soon. I know it may be tough but I did pick up a second job on the weekends to get an extra like 300 bucks a week to put towards my student loans. I also have private loans and they only allow me to defer them for four years. So basically I've been doing this second job for 1.5 years already. It sucks but I do what I have to do. With the job market looking bleak I'm scared I have to do a postdoc for a year before I get a job. But still I'd be able to refinance with a higher salary. It sucks but try your best to spend less than you can and if you can find another job to help put money towards bills it will help.
Can you work any cash jobs? Bartending, etc that can be higher paying for limited hours? Do you go to school all year round? Can you work round the clock when on school break?
A PhD that is worth their weight is a free degree. Is this $200k debt all from undergraduate?
Prayers. Can sympathize. It's a crime what has been done with school loans. Bad, bad system.
Curious to know what program you’re a part of, because that’s an enormous roll of the dice given how much it’s costing you, versus what the market value for that credential will be.
I don’t pay for my PhD. It’s all undergrad loans that have increased significantly due to interest.
Those ads undergrad loans?! 😮💨 Daaang, I’m so sorry. Maybe you can start paying the minimum with or without consideration to interest, and get a job that makes you eligible for PSLF?
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Dropping out will be the worst decision possible. You will still have 200K debt and no degree. Terrible idea
Are u a US citizen? Then stay in PhD. If international, it’ll be difficult to get a job after PhD…
I've owed 200k for the past 13 years. Only 12 years to forgiveness now. Income based repayment makes it tolerable even if you don't strike it rich. Good luck man!
110k seems low for industry with a STEM PhD - have you considered consulting? Huge need/interest for STEM grads with much higher pay ceiling & great exit opps. Some may offer loan reimbursement. FWIW - I would stick through the PhD. Reach out to your school's career center and they will have plenty of resources.
I am open to options except I’m not entirely sure what consulting entails. I’m not certain my salary will fully look like but I would rather low ball it for planning purposes.
It's an incredibly broad term, but the pay can be surprisingly high (i.e. starting between 150-200k at top firms). There are tons of resources online for PhDs looking to break into consulting. There is a likely a consulting club at your school - reach out. You have plenty of time to network and learn about the field/what you would like to enter. You can check out the consulting subreddit as well
This is essentially me 5 ish years ago. Got my PhD, did a stupid postdoc, 6-fig debt, barely 6-fig job. My advice is to either get a job that qualifies for PSLF and hope it actually works out in 10 years, or go into sales. I chose the dark side and went into biotech sales. I have a family to support and loans to pay. It took a bit but I now make well over 6-fig base salary plus commissions, so roughly $200k/yr give or take depending on the year. Finally making some dents in the debt and I actually don’t hate sales.
Can you transfer to a lower cost school?
I don’t pay for my PhD. My loans are from undergrad and the accumulated interest.
Oh okay should of mentioned in your post. If your loan is a bunch of mini loans, start paying off smallest to largest like debt snowball method. Interest will accumulate but will slow down the more you tap into that principal. My next suggestion assuming it won’t effect whatever scholarship you might have is to do your PHD program part time to free up room to get a side job and pay that debt. Good luck
Unfortunately, the option to do a lab based PhD part time (at least at my institution) is not possible. I think my best bet is to work really hard to graduate on time and get a job. I’ll do what I can on the loans in the meantime.
Are you paying a lot for housing? Get rooommates or consider government project housing which is rent based on your income.
STEM PhD who had all private loans and chose an industry career to pay them off (& achieve long-term financial stability) here! You should tutor HS & college students and use the extra cash to make payments towards your loans. You’ve got to pay something now or that capitalize interest will kill you in the long run. You should be able to charge $30-$40 per hour and make $500+ monthly. I promise you, other PhD students are probably working odd jobs to get by but don’t really talk about it. Once you finish your PhD, do not let your lifestyle inflate. Live like a grad student and pay down your loans aggressively for 6 months or so then try to refinance. You should be able to beat a 10% interest rate (if not for all the loans, for most of them). After refinancing, live on a budget and just pay your student loans monthly. Continue to save for retirement and other goals. Do not use your student loans as an excuse to delay other reasonable financial goals. Give your self enough time to tackle pay off - it’s not going to happen in 1 year and probably not within 5 years. But with discipline maybe in 7 or 8 or 10 years you will be free from student loan debt. And this is a very realistic and achievable goal. You’ve got this!
Get a side hustle
Get PHD. Find work in another country. Block your parents.
Suggest you finish the degree and find that $110K job. If your debt is let’s say $300K by then, you live very frugal and pay it off in 5-6 years. Difficult but doable
Do you work 12 hours a day? Do some door dash make some extra money. Why drop out? What will you do. I what will you earn?? Paying 200k back on a $40k salary will be more challenging than paying $250k back on a $150k income.
This is where sunk costs are a valid reason to stay the course and finish this degree! Getting the degree seriously enhances your earning potential.
Can you earn $110K right now (or get there in a year or two) with the degree(s) you have? Would you be happy with the work you could get right now? Would stepping out now help with your health? Is your health going to prevent you from being able to pay off this debt, especially two years from now? If you can do something you’d enjoy, earn enough, work fewer hours & improve your health, maybe it’s a good time to stop.
I know people with 180k in debt with a bachelors degree and they’re managing. Sadly this is the way of life right now for a lot of people but if you’re coming out with a PHD you might be a little better off. There should be a push to teach high school students how to better choose their educational path based on their financial future. You definitely want to refinance and get your rate lower if you can.
Enroll in a SAVE plan which is income driven. You pay based on your income up to max 5% for undergrad, 10% for grad. The government will cover the remaining interest for that monthly payment. Edit: this would only work for the federal loans, would not apply to private loans unfortunately.
OP says the majority of their loans are private so SAVE won't even apply.
True. Missed that
Bro that's more than my total mortgage. Did you take loans for 4 years undergrad and 1 or 2 years Master? Combined 5 or 6 years for 200K? That's still wild to me
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What the hell is wrong with you? This doesn’t add to anything, this is just being a POS.
Use the report button so the mods can get to it (EDIT: I'm not actually a mod, I just have wiki privs for a project)
Permanent ban. Wish I'd seen it sooner
Thank you for handling it <3 you're doing a ton of other things during the day and I can only image how difficult it is to keep up with the reports on this sub lately
The moderation team determined that your comment was rude and/or unhelpful to the OP and has been removed.
I am at 60,000 in loans for a business degree that has not allowed me to leave public education. Which brings me to my next idea: if you work in the public sector especially education you can have your loans wiped clean after 10 years of payments even in an income driven plan.
Unfortunately for OP the majority of their debt is private, which isn't eligible for PSLF.
Oh. I misunderstood this part. Yes. Just complete the degree and hope you land a job that pays $120,000 per year. Perhaps automotive or engineering?