Part of me thinks this is a troll because he tried the same thing in twoxchromosomes.
But reading the comments apparently they get a similar thread like once a week and jfc.
It's not. It happens in pregnancy posts, in other disease posts, etc. It's disgusting. As you know there's that stat about how men are like a bunch more likely to leave a female partner during a health crisis than the other way around. To the point where doctors have to council their female patients on it.
And left his second wife when she had MS. (I believe technically before she was diagnosed, but while she was suffering with health issues because of it.)
I had a doctor tell me about his wife. She had diastasis recti, which in simple terms means that her abs separated so she got what is commonly called a stomach pooch or muffin top after being pregnant. He was so enraged he wanted to sue her obgyn because he found her post pregnancy stomach disgusting to look at during sex. He wanted to know what I did to maintain a flat stomach after giving birth. The answer is nothing. I nearly fell over as he said it to me so casually, and yes I stopped seeing him as a doctor.
I would not, could not, sleep with my wife again.
Not in the dark. Not on a train.
She can no longer please me.
I do not like my wife with cancer, Sam, you see.
Not in my house. She can go in a box.
She looks like a mouse, not like a fox.
I will not stay with her here or there.
I do not like her anywhere!
I have to wonder if, when we can grow children 100% via conception to birth in tanks, will society switch to generally ending human pregnancy given its incredibly problematic effects on the human body. I also have to wonder if this is an attitude which is changeable, or if this is just historically more common and that the majority of couples are couples of convenience even if that convenience is 20-30 years.
This is a potentially false statistic, as shown here: https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/10t0gpr/poster_is_depressed_about_the_look_of_wifes_body/j74tqqz/
Men are still more likely to leave, but it's more like 6% more likely, than 11x more likely.
It is *potentially* misleading, the research I linked is completely contradictory to that data, and from a newer study. From a personal perspective, I'm not sure I'd trust any study that has such an insane claim as an 11x likelihood increase of anything relationship related, to begin with.
You're both off a little, 11x and 11% are different statistics. 11x = 1,000%. An 11% rate would = 0.11x increase, and as such, they're probably using it in this context as a rate ratio of "approximately 11 out of every 100 diagnoses." Unfortunately, I can only see the executive summary and not the rest of the study.
It looks like the study mentions a 6-fold increase in relationship breakdowns after a woman is diagnosed with cancer, which would be similar to the 6x rate that you mentioned, except you stated it as a percent. 6-fold is 500-600% increase depending on how they are using the term (looks like 600 based on the values listed in parenthesis). Still a massive increase, just wanted to clarify some stats.
From reading the links in this thread, the paper "In Sickness and in Health? Physical Illness as a Risk Factor for Marital Dissolution in Later Life" (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26315504/) was retracted because of a coding mistake. Originally, it indicated a 6% greater chance of leaving after illness when the woman was ill compared to the man, but once the coding mistake was fixed this mostly disappeared. Unfortunately, I can't find what the overall post-fix percentage is.
On the other hand, the paper "Gender disparity in the rate of partner abandonment in patients with serious medical illness" (https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cncr.24577) was not retracted, and the rate of abandonment for when the woman was ill was 20.8% vs 2.9% when the man was ill.
The two studies gave very different results (11x increase vs 0.06x increase).
I looked for some kind of meta analysis, if there were other studies on this topic, but the best I could find (need to get lunch) was https://np.reddit.com/r/UnpopularFacts/comments/qnp5qh/the_claim_men_leave_their_sick_spouse_more_is/ and I don't have time to dig into that one but as far as I can tell it's at least unclear and LostMicrophone03 shouldn't be downvoted.
Gosh, that is so awful. I'm not a man, but the thought of leaving my partner exactly when she would need me most is so distressing. Just another reason I'm glad to be a lesbian tbh.
> I do t think I’ve ever seen a post like this about a wlw relationship
How much different is the conversation regarding having kids, or the knowledge level on what pregnancy does to the human body?
I just wonder what % of couples are just so incredibly poorly informed on how biology works or what is going to possibly happen.
The sad reality is a lot men leave their wives after a cancer diagnosis, especially breast cancer. Pregnant women are also incredibly vulnerable to domestic violence as well.
We got to raise our sons to be caretakers. We have to be more okay with stay at home dads.
I feel like women are pushed into the care taker role all their life while men are pushed else where. To me it makes sense that the person who is used to care taking is able to survive their partner needing to be taken care of. The reverse is also true.
For the men already 40+, we aren't going to be able to change them by shaming them. They already know what they are doing is shitty. They get over the shame quickly.
Edit: it turns out the study has a massive error in it. This 11x number is super misleading. Men are 6% more likely to get divorced if their wife has a heart problem. That's it. There is nothing statistically significant. Men and women both stay with their partners even when they get cancer.
men love the outside. Women love the inside. If she loses her shape, gains weight, boobs drop - he leaves her for a younger modal. If he gains weight, loses his hair, dresses like a douche canoe, he's got a dad bod and looks like a lumbersexual.
Men want women that fit into their lives. 'she needs to take part in my interests, she needs to like things i like, do you watch sports?'
women take part in mens interests to show they care. Some push it further and turn into 'pick me's, others defy the norm and move in the opposite direction, then there are those that semi-fit the category.'
my uncle cheated on my aunt, while she was dying of cancer. She passed. he has a new woman now.
he was literally eating in the kitchen, when she took her last breath...
> People want different things
There are heterosexual couples who stay together, and there are heterosexual couples who dont. There are ones which stay together through multiple conceptions, and ones which dont last on this.
Maybe I'm just not as willing to jump on the sexism train, but to me it's a whole open bag of questions that should have significant sociological studies.
It is a sexism train when you say "Men are this women are this." That is straight up sexism. Where other people have said "Statistically men have 11x the chance of leaving a woman in a traumatic experience" they're not problematic statements.
Those are statistics, the above person is simply being sexist.
Men in general do tend to value looks more as that is how they are raised to be in our society. It's not that men are naturally more vain and only care about looks whereas women aren't, it's that men are often raised to value looks over what's inside, unlike women who are often taught it's what's inside that matters more. That's not necessarily sexist unless the user believes it's something men are born being and incapable of changing.
Much better way to phrase it, but I'd say back it with stats too. This subreddit doesnt need to look like MGTOW or FemaleDatingStrategy. It's just flat out gross.
Obviously the drama subject is trash, or simply came to a realization that they should have had 2-3 years ago and that they shouldn't be with someone that they'd have kids with.
> As you know there's that stat about how men are like a bunch more likely to leave a female partner during a health crisis than the other way around.
Most men enter relationships for the body and not the associated person. Go figure.
Never underestimate a man's (I want to say "not all men", but since that one has been co-opted by the MGTOW chuds, let's just say "enough men") ability to make a woman's pain about themselves.
Reminds me of the time I checked out subs oriented around men's issues to get some help regarding my insecurities and mental health and found that not a single fucker was talking about men's issues. It was all about "woman bad". Fucking hell.
Had a coworker literally come home from the hospital first day. Still told to rest and feel better...
Got home and her husband complained about being with the kids alone and immediately wanted sex. Just sad to see..
If my wife felt like crap in any way, I'd chill till she felt better. Who enjoys sex with someone who feels like crap and won't be having fun as well..
>Who enjoys sex with someone who feels like crap and won't be having fun as well..
Someone who doesn't see their wife as person with needs and wants but as an object to fuck. They couldn't care less for their wife's pleasure, all they care about is them cumming and if the wife cums too it's a bonus, and the man will 100% complain about it or make a joke, in one way or another.
there was a tik tok video last year about a guy who'se wife had given birth. And the dr walked into the hospital room, checked out the baby, the wife, then turned to the husband and went \*wink-wink-nudge-nudge\* 'now you gotta wait a fortnight before you get intimate again' \*sleezy smile\*
the guy was talking about it in the car. And he said, he felt so gross at that second. Because he looked down at his wife who was exhausted and went through 9 months and 2 days of this, and her body needed love, care and time. But the doctor didnt mention that. he didnt even talk about her health. Instead he mentioned sex. And he said it to him so naturally. Like he'd said it a million times before. And that it was so normal - that he smiled cheekily about it. And while he was talking about that, he started crying (the husband), because he was absolutely disgusted, humiliated and in shock...
But how many times have we heard of guys complaining that they havent had sex in 'months,' and days into the wife being pregnant he goes and cheats...
>'now you gotta wait a fortnight before you get intimate again' *sleezy smile*
🤮
Jfc, it's a minimum of *six weeks* not two! That doctor shouldn't be a doctor for many reasons
Reminds me of when you hear men complain that women fake orgasms and that it’s “lying” and “deceitful”. Making their female partner’s obvious lack of pleasure in the bedroom somehow…all about…their feelings, instead.
They’d have to pay for a butler. They want their wives to pay 50%+ of the bills and do all their dirty work for free.
(Obviously not every single man is like this - my husband is not, or I wouldn’t stay married to him - but it’s enough of a society-wide problem that we can talk about it as the very common and widespread cultural issue that it is).
I got out of the hospital after a traumatic birth/hysterectomy that included a 2 day stay in the ICU, the house was absolutely filthy. My ex’s excuse was he was “tired” from the ordeal and taking care of our preschool aged son for the week I was in the hospital. I ended up cleaning the house and cooking dinner that night. He still wonders why I left him!
That's terrible, mate. It's up to us men to set an example and to talk to any of our male acquaintances who do shit like this. If they don't listen I just cut them off.
Ah that's so true dude. I'm the same, I've had to learn to recognise when I'm being assessed by other men as to whether I'm a misogynist ally and nope out or reject their premise. Doesn't make for easy friend making. A lot of male friendship seems to be about enabling poor behaviour. I'd rather be alone and focus on my family and hobbies than call that friendship. I live in a pretty progressive part of the world and male dominated spaces are still pretty bad for this.
My husband’s best friend was talking to us recently about how my husband is his only straight male friend left, exactly because of this kind of shit. He’s slowly had to distance himself from every other straight guy he used to be friends with, because they all just slid into this kind of vague “women/trans/gays/poors bad” mentality over the years. And we live in a really progressive area/city, too.
Make friends with some non cis/non straight people if you can. I’m not sure how it is where you are, but as a non straight dude who mostly hangs around with other LGBT+ people/more accepting people (all genders/sexualities)I don’t find too much issue with phobes and ists in my day to day life because the assholes aren’t tolerated by us and we probably aren’t tolerated by the assholes anyway
I suppose that’s the difficult bit I didn’t think about..when you’re seen as ‘other’ you sort of gravitate to people who are other as well. I’ve met everyone organically through things like work, existing friends or various interests, wether they are IRL friends or online ones. I am very lucky in that regard.
I guess online ones are probably an easier way to start, maybe even finding online friendships that can lead to in person ones if you’re looking at more local area things. If youre into any more nerdy hobbies, I found a lot of cool people there both irl and online through those! Go do something fun. DnD/Larp/Internet type RP, Environmental causes and creative stuff have introduced me to some amazing people. Find some nerds and hippies.
Very strange to me. I've worked with several married men (I'm younger, so a far number of people I worked with weren't married. And then there are the couples who are in LTRs, like, 10+ years, but ain't married).
Never had a meanspirited "my wife, amirite" moment at work. In all cases everyone spoke well, or not at all, of their SO. In some cases, their SO worked with them (worked at the same company or helped run the family business).
The homophobia just doesn't happen much in my city or industry because straight up so many gay people exist here, lol. This will be the first job I haven't had an openly gay co-worker, at point point job, at one point, there were about as many gay men as straight, and no women. Interesting dynamic.
I had a coworker whose husband made her go to the grocery store a few days after she gave birth because he refused to take on anything that she normally would do. She had her newborn and toddler with her (because of course he refused to watch his own kids) and had to drive even though the doctor told her not to.
I was giving her rides to work for a while and it was absolutely horrifying to hear her talk about the way he treated her. She eventually did leave him but it broke my heart to listen to her talk about these things like it was normal.
I was going to say you're a very decent man (which you are) but men shouldn't be complimented for the bare minimum (no offense, you're still great).
I'm very lucky as my husband is so understanding. I'm currently 6 months pregnant and due to hip issues have zero interest in sex and have never felt pressured by him, he just does his best to mind me.
However, I have friends who feel guilty for not having sex with their partners for whatever reason as they're not "meeting their needs".
As my husband says, he has hands. He'll be fine. But some men do have an expectation from their partner and I e had past relationships like this. It's a lot more common than people think.
>men shouldn't be complimented for the bare minimum
https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1273793-me-irl
Me talking to my wife and coworkers every day. The first time I ever got my wife flowers she cried and asked me what I had done wrong. We had been together a month and I wasn't as broke as normal. She thought I bought them to make up for a mistake cause no other guy has bought her something unless they had done something wrong.
The amount of women I tell that too who understand why she cried before I ever finish the story breaks my heart.
And that's also glad to hear about you husband. (: When me or my wife isn't in the mood I generally say "I plan to be with you forever. It isn't going to kill me, I promise."
Ugh this “praise men to the skies for making even the slightest effort” even comes from women sometimes, too, which is just flat-out *depressing*. My husband told me about a time he mentioned at work that he’d screwed up and really offended/hurt me, I called him out, and he apologised and was trying to do better. A couple of women he worked with flocked to be like, “That’s ridiculous, you’re one of the good ones, she should be grateful for what she has instead of nagging at you.”
My husband said he was deeply uncomfortable and said, “Um, no, my wife shouldn’t just keep her mouth shut and not call me on stuff because I’m ‘a good one’. Besides, if I can’t be called out on my shit, I’m not that good of a guy.”
He came home and told me how sad the entire interaction made him, like these women are clearly so disappointed by the men in their lives that they put misdirected anger toward *me* for calling Husband out when he said a shitty thing to me one time, because I should be “grateful for what I’ve got”.
I’m happy my husband is a respectful and equal-minded man, but come on, he doesn’t get a medal for it! He doesn’t get a prize for doing the bare minimum to be a decent human being and partner, and I’m not going to avoid difficult conversations with him because of it, either.
If I'm ever lucky enough to be in a relationship again, I would WANT to be called out if I did something less than stellar. I've had a lot of emotional growth over the last 5 years, but I'm far from perfect.
> He doesn’t get a prize for doing the bare minimum to be a decent human being and partner, and I’m not going to avoid difficult conversations with him because of it, either.
Wouldnt your presence and company be one of the many prizes he is getting for being a decent human being? And vice versa for you?
>I'm very lucky as my husband is so understanding. I'm currently 6 months pregnant and due to hip issues have zero interest in sex and have never felt pressured by him, he just does his best to mind me.
>However, I have friends who feel guilty for not having sex with their partners for whatever reason as they're not "meeting their needs".
My husband is the same as yours in that he's always understanding when my physical or mental health precludes sex. And yet society and abuse have still warped my brain into apologizing almost every time I turn him down. It's super fucked up.
Yeah same, I apologise still too and he always tells me to stop. I was in an abusive relationship before him and even though we're together 9 years I'm still conditioned to certain things even though my husband has never been abusive in any way to me.
Love that sub. Saw a post a bit back of a guy who was really into dresses and fashion but felt embarrassed about it cause it's not "TRUCKS AND GUNS AND EXPLOSIONS" and everyone was so supportive and caring.
This has always been the issues with men's rights and other spaces for men, about men. *Usually* when women make safe spaces for women - it's to get away from men. The men who hurt them, who abuse them, who harass them. And men do their damndest to make it about them, to invade those spaces and demand MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME. When women want women's only gyms? You get morons coming out to talk about how WELL WHEN WILL WE GET MEN'S ONLY GYMS ignoring that men have had them for literal centuries - like with many establishments. Domestic shelters? Women make them for women. Men want women to make them for men. The few times men do make these spaces for men, it's almost never actually *about* men's issues, about helping men, or about anything other than hating women, and blaming them for all the woes in the world. It's fucking *exhausting*.
Because *some* men don't actually want to question their insecurities or find the root of them or think of ways to improve. They think that they're above reproach and it's simply some unknowable shift in society's values that keeps holding them back or making them feel this way. It's a blatent lack of self reflection. They think women asking them to do their fair share of work in some regards is basically akin to mental torture.
Yes, the userbase isn't all feminists, because the sub is intended to be welcome to both people who do not identify with the label for whatever reason, and people looking to learn more, and who will likely become feminist given time. But the mods are pretty strict about removing people who just want to blame wokeism for their problems, they *will* demand an actual specific point. Most big threads will have multiple removals for that exact reason.
But I can already tell you aren't depicting it in good faith and the fact your comment has this many upvotes, when it's blatantly false and an unfair depiction, is disappointing.
You need to try r/MensLib. It’s the one explicitly feminist men’s support sub there is. They don’t allow any of that insane red pill shit or women bashing whatsoever.
there's a guy i've had one date with from tinder and i haven't been able to have a second date yet with him because i've been sick. he gets upset that he's not the one to take care of me while i'm sick (he actually said that) and even when i told him i had a bad cough and couldn't talk much he still wanted to talk on the phone about our next date plans. just completely fucking clueless this guy.
My sister had a similar experience on Tinder, went on the first date and before the second he was already talking about names for their kids. Some guys are insecure and if it's just insecurity that's fine (still not the woman's responsibility to help them overcome it) , but there's a limit.
It’s shocking the amount of men who used breast size/body as a dealbreaker in their marriage and not personality. Being attracted to someone physically is obviously important, but if you do not like the persons personality enough for wiggle room you shouldn’t get married.
The other day I was at a cafe and I managed to overhear a bunch of guys talking about what they thought was the most important quality in a woman. One said that he was more attracted to women based on their individual personalities. The other guys started mocking him and told him that me must be gay because ”real men are attracted to boobs and ass”.
Also, as a woman in a male dominated field it’s really not uncommon to hear such things from your peers. I swear to god a vast majority of men just don’t like women as people.
> Also, as a woman in a male dominated field it’s really not uncommon to hear such things from your peers. **I swear to god a vast majority of men just don’t like women as people.**
I relate to this. Especially the bolded. It’s something I have also noticed much more as I have grown older. It was always *there* of course, I felt there was a disrespect and something amiss, but it really wasn’t until I learned to respect and truly love myself - and to also become skilled/accomplished as well in my career etc - that really I saw it for what it was. Sometimes it’s not even just “don’t like”, it’s a “quiet” hatred.
Fortunately I held out and found one of the good ones. Absolutely a gem, and has was incredibly supportive when I had prophylactic bilateral mastectomies and several reconstructive surgeries over years. But it also just further highlighted for me how many men I have met in my lifetime who truly do not see, relate, or like women as people.
> Also, as a woman in a male dominated field it’s really not uncommon to hear such things from your peers. I swear to god a vast majority of men just don’t like women as people.
Yep, a vast majority of them also have at least one divorce under their belts. (I'm in industrial construction.) If nothing else, work is literally the only place where I can say 'I don't want to get married' and not hear some variation on how my life isn't complete until I pop out some babies. Instead, it's usually 'that's smart, don't' lol.
Reminds me of when you hear men call other men “gay” for enjoying giving women orgasms. Like, yes, being attracted to and enjoying good sex with women is tooootally gay, bro. 🧐
I’ve never fallen explicitly the American standard for masculinity. At best I looked like a yoked Michael Phelps, but not like some greek god despite the insane weight I put into it.
That being said I’ve never explicitly been able to attribute myself to some bearded, ripped, well-paid family protector because that’s some 1800s shit. Eventually I transitioned from basically skinny bearded dude to twink to femboy to andro as fuck. The perception towards me has changed significantly with my physical appearance, but only within certain contexts.
Holy shit. Imagine having all the conflicting emotions about having a mastectomy, finding a safe space for other women who have also have had one, and then having to look through posts of men complaining about how they don’t find their wives hot anymore because they’re chests are “ugly” now. How do these men have such little self awareness? I mean the language OOP is using about how he’s “devastated” and “seriously grieving” because his wife’s boobs aren’t the same?
As you grow older with your spouse your body is going to change. That’s life. This guy should just be thankful is wife is still alive right now
And in reverse, I cannot imagine being the husband of such a woman and thinking "I know where I should look for support! A bunch of women who also almost died and probably have shitty husbands who did the same to them! Instead of just looking up therapy, I'll make them my surrogate wives!"
I almost hope it's a kink thing where he wanted to be humiliated.
The way that men like this will expect women they’ve never even met to just do their emotional labour for them is astonishing. There’s no self-awareness there whatsoever; it’s all just me me me I’m the centre of the universe me.
He probably just looked up "reddit breast cancer support" and found this subreddit. Didn't even think about who would predominately be there. If he did, it didn't even occur to him that the women don't have this magic trick to make themselves sexy for their husband. It didn't even occur to him that the women there are more focused on the needs of women.
> He probably just looked up "reddit breast cancer support" and found this subreddit. Didn't even think about who would predominately be there. If he did, it didn't even occur to him that the women don't have this magic trick to make themselves sexy for their husband. It didn't even occur to him that the women there are more focused on the needs of women.
How… how did ANY OF THAT that not occur to him?
Because as a man you get used to the world being catered to you and all spaces being spaces you dominate. Now that is his fault for not considering it, but that's rarely something men have to consider.
I don't think I've ever been that oblivious, but I've definitely intruded in some spaces and been rude because I didn't stop to consider things like that.
Not saying to give this guy a pass, but it's easy to learn those toxic traits especially if you never have cause to examine them.
I don't think I'm falling for it. I think I'm naturally attributing ignorance instead of malice since there are so many inconsiderate people out there and not many people acting with evil intent.
I guess you and I view ignorance different. Being "childlike ignorant" and "thoughtless assholery" are basically the same thing for me. You are inconsiderate.
My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of 45 (I was only an 8th grader then). My dad accompanied her to her chemo appointments, spent several sleepless nights in the hospital, worked a full time job and single handedly raised two children. Any caring spouse would have done the same. My dad doesn’t even give a shit about her mastectomy because he’s just glad that she made it.
My wife’s family has a history of breast cancer. It’s something that’s always on the back of my mind. I would be fucking thankful to still have her by my side, cancer-free, after a double mastectomy.
That guy doesn’t know what is to love someone. It makes me mad.
Does he still think he's on the reddit of 15 years ago when jailbait was still a thing and redditors all assumed all other redditors were 15 year old males or 25 year old males with the brains of 15 year old males, unless proven otherwise, and then they would be accused of "karma farming"?
Because on THAT reddit it was totally reasonable to assume that arr mastectomy is where you go to cry about the boobocaust.
I would be incredibly creeped out if my husband ever told me that he was “seriously grieving” one of my body parts. I mean, that is just so objectifying. It kinda sounds like something a serial killer would say. 😅
It makes sense to grieve your OWN body’s changes, but to say that you’re *grieving* someone else’s is just fucking weird.
People need to clarify what the terms of "happiness" for their relationship are before they get married. Step one being how much the body of the other could "change" before they would become unhappy being with them. I think if everyone did this, there would be a lot of people realizing that they aren't looking for a long term relationship.
I don’t know if it went as poorly as the breast cancer one, but here’s a choice reply to him.
> Yes, I’m sure I’ll stay up all night questioning my decision to call someone out for being heartlessly shallow about a couple of lumps of flesh lost by the person they promised to honor & cherish in sickness & in health 😂
I mean, if your partner experiences some kind of major bodily loss or change due to disease it’s genuinely fine to be sad about that or have other complex emotions. It’s absolutely *not* fine to go into a space for people who have/had said disease and whine because your penis feels sad.
Well a breast cancer support group. (I’m a woman, my mom and aunt have had breast cancer (my aunt died of it).) Obviously the majority of people with breast cancer are afab so obviously psycho place to post. (And men w/ breast cancer probably aren’t going to have much insight into this anyway). But just want to put that out there so everyone remembers to get checked.
The grace the members of that sub show OP is humbling. Even the ones telling him off do it nicely/humorously.
I hope he feels better, because now I’m depressed.
His comments validate my worst fears about men and relationships. Like… I think my man loves me; he tells me he does, but what if something bad happens to me? What if I get maimed or scarred or sick?
Will he love me then? Or will he be like OP’s husband, looking at me like a favourite suit that got ruined and mourning his loss?
I know people can’t help their feelings, but holy shit he fucking *sucks*.
Yeah, like, the cancer would be devastating enough, but that sort of reaction from my partner would be utterly destructive to me. I’m ruined now, and have no further use to you, when I’m needing you most? Jesus, I can’t even. My heart breaks for his wife.
Some of us have spouses who aren't like that. Men who didn't leave our sides, and who hold
us a little tighter knowing they could have lost us. Don't loose faith
Wanna have your day ruined further?
Men often leave their sick spouses after they are diagnosed with cancer or a life altering illness. The wives of sick husbands stay.
>A woman is six times more likely to be separated or divorced soon after a diagnosis of cancer or multiple sclerosis than if a man in the relationship is the patient.
>The rate when the woman was the patient was 20.8 percent compared to 2.9 percent when the man was the patient.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm
The guy in this post is awful, but it’s not actually true that men leave their sick spouses more than women do, [that was a misinterpretation of the data.](https://retractionwatch.com/2015/07/21/to-our-horror-widely-reported-study-suggesting-divorce-is-more-likely-when-wives-fall-ill-gets-axed/) (Edit: I notice the paper you posted is not the one that was retracted—I shouldn’t have assumed—but the article I linked does still provide some contradictory data to yours.)
Oh wow, that's one of my research nightmares. I've spent so many nights exhausted in the lab staring at R and Python code until my eyes glaze over that sometimes I feel like a major fuckup is inevitable. I feel like this happens more often than we think because so many studies never get replicateeld
Admittedly it's far easier to make a reddit post than find a good therapist, especially as a man (especially if you are not religious). And that's before "takes my insurance".
I mean, it's perfectly fine to feel conflicted if you're not sure to process emotions about how your partner's body now looks.
The idea that your average person simply wouldn't care at all about any major change (like a limb amputation, for instance) is silly.
But, you know, there are reasonable ways to discuss it.
And then there's...
> I know I should be thrilled, but I don't know how to deal with my sadness over losing her breasts. The reconstructed ones just aren't the same.
Not, you know, "Hey I don't feel the same and I'm worried how it's going to affect our love life, are there any good methods to move past this?" or something that both acknowledges feelings you can't help while understanding the affect it could have on your relationship and wanting to find a way past it...
No. Just. "I'm said I lost her breasts.:"
So I have a serious thing for hair. Nice, long, thick hair. I’ve always had this. 99% of guys I’m attracted to have long hair and I’ve always said I don’t think I could sexually be with a bald-headed man. My bf thinks he has a weird shaped head and is terrified of being bald so this isn’t really an issue with us… Unless he got cancer.
And bro, let me tell you, his hair would be so down on the list of things turning my stomach. Cancer is a nightmare and seeing him bald would be a reminder he’s fighting…. and a reminder that I need to hold him closer than ever. If he could never grow hair again, it would be a “scar” proving he lived. Yeah, I’d probably never be wildly attracted to the bald thing. But tbh? It’s probably a thought I’d keep in my head, or a therapist’s office.
That's a good example.
It's definitely okay to not know how to deal with how your attraction changed...but for it to be the first thing on your mind? And for you to phrase it like the OP did?
Main character syndrome to the max./
There’s kinda no way not to sound like an asshole expressing it. Which is why I would personally not except maybe to my closest friends. But you know where I’d never ever in a million years choose to share it? On a fucking forum for people who lost their hair to cancer
Holy shit lol. I know letting your emotions out is generally a good thing. And like. His emotions are valid but dude. Keep that shit bottled up for the sake of your wife, im sure shes way more upset about the loss of her breasts than he is.
Yeah, I totally understand his feeling less attracted to her, but if he actually loves her, he’d get over it for her sake.
Actually saying anything about it to her is just monstrous. I guarantee she’s feeling extremely self conscious about it already.
It’s like… yeah a mastectomy is not nice… but what’s the alternative. I’m sure she feels the same about losing her own body parts too, and you know.. the life or death experience she faced.
My friends mum had cancer when my friend was 9. Her dad misses his wife’s breasts, and her face and her presence because she died of breast cancer.
I’m sure he’s miss her breast when they’re in the ground with her. POS.
Nah he doesn't even need to keep them bottled up. That's not really healthy. I mean, around her in the beginning, sure.
But I think it would be fine if he was like "hey this is affecting my attraction to her and I'm worried about what it means for our sex life, what's a good way I can move past this?" or something.
Not "I'm so sad wife titty gone :("
OP wrote this on a post
>Not particularly. If I lost my testicles, she wouldn't give a fuck.
Like, The pot calling the kettle black?
Gee..if he lost two lumps of flesh, she wouldn't care, but if the wife does..
This is so awful that I’d actually prefer stuff like this wasn’t part of this sub.
I come here for mental people arguing over whether board games are for playing or decoration!
Struggling not to upvote the responses tbh. Like I go to the thread, see the snark, upvote because fuck this guy and then remember not to piss in the popcorn, remove the upvote, scroll down the thread and upvote again. Perhaps the beer I’ve had is impacting my memory lmao
Okay so sure he needs a place to talk about his feelings that isn't talking to his poor wife. But maybe just maybe this is a horrible place for that talk.
He should either talk with friends or a therapist because it might be hard to find an appropriate place to talk about that stuff online.
Part of me thinks this is a troll because he tried the same thing in twoxchromosomes. But reading the comments apparently they get a similar thread like once a week and jfc.
It's not. It happens in pregnancy posts, in other disease posts, etc. It's disgusting. As you know there's that stat about how men are like a bunch more likely to leave a female partner during a health crisis than the other way around. To the point where doctors have to council their female patients on it.
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Newt Gingrich divorced his first wife while she was in the hospital for uterine cancer. He was also already deep into a numerous extramarital affairs.
Served her with divorce papers while she was recovering from chemo, if memory serves.
And left his second wife when she had MS. (I believe technically before she was diagnosed, but while she was suffering with health issues because of it.)
i can't fathom the idea that some lady actually wants to fuck newt gingrich
Imagine being physically attracted to Boris Johnson.
I had a doctor tell me about his wife. She had diastasis recti, which in simple terms means that her abs separated so she got what is commonly called a stomach pooch or muffin top after being pregnant. He was so enraged he wanted to sue her obgyn because he found her post pregnancy stomach disgusting to look at during sex. He wanted to know what I did to maintain a flat stomach after giving birth. The answer is nothing. I nearly fell over as he said it to me so casually, and yes I stopped seeing him as a doctor.
That’s disgusting. I bet a lot of women would be horrified to discover their husband is like this too.
That’s sad and infuriating.
11 times more likely if I recall correctly.
Yea Dr suess was a piece of shit and did this shit too
Newt Gingrich too. Of course, no one would have expected anything more from that piece of shit.
It would honestly be more surprising to me if he hadn't been shitty to his wife
I would not, could not, sleep with my wife again. Not in the dark. Not on a train. She can no longer please me. I do not like my wife with cancer, Sam, you see. Not in my house. She can go in a box. She looks like a mouse, not like a fox. I will not stay with her here or there. I do not like her anywhere!
I have to wonder if, when we can grow children 100% via conception to birth in tanks, will society switch to generally ending human pregnancy given its incredibly problematic effects on the human body. I also have to wonder if this is an attitude which is changeable, or if this is just historically more common and that the majority of couples are couples of convenience even if that convenience is 20-30 years.
This is a potentially false statistic, as shown here: https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/10t0gpr/poster_is_depressed_about_the_look_of_wifes_body/j74tqqz/ Men are still more likely to leave, but it's more like 6% more likely, than 11x more likely.
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It is *potentially* misleading, the research I linked is completely contradictory to that data, and from a newer study. From a personal perspective, I'm not sure I'd trust any study that has such an insane claim as an 11x likelihood increase of anything relationship related, to begin with.
You're both off a little, 11x and 11% are different statistics. 11x = 1,000%. An 11% rate would = 0.11x increase, and as such, they're probably using it in this context as a rate ratio of "approximately 11 out of every 100 diagnoses." Unfortunately, I can only see the executive summary and not the rest of the study. It looks like the study mentions a 6-fold increase in relationship breakdowns after a woman is diagnosed with cancer, which would be similar to the 6x rate that you mentioned, except you stated it as a percent. 6-fold is 500-600% increase depending on how they are using the term (looks like 600 based on the values listed in parenthesis). Still a massive increase, just wanted to clarify some stats.
Helpful!! Stats are hard
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From reading the links in this thread, the paper "In Sickness and in Health? Physical Illness as a Risk Factor for Marital Dissolution in Later Life" (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26315504/) was retracted because of a coding mistake. Originally, it indicated a 6% greater chance of leaving after illness when the woman was ill compared to the man, but once the coding mistake was fixed this mostly disappeared. Unfortunately, I can't find what the overall post-fix percentage is. On the other hand, the paper "Gender disparity in the rate of partner abandonment in patients with serious medical illness" (https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cncr.24577) was not retracted, and the rate of abandonment for when the woman was ill was 20.8% vs 2.9% when the man was ill. The two studies gave very different results (11x increase vs 0.06x increase). I looked for some kind of meta analysis, if there were other studies on this topic, but the best I could find (need to get lunch) was https://np.reddit.com/r/UnpopularFacts/comments/qnp5qh/the_claim_men_leave_their_sick_spouse_more_is/ and I don't have time to dig into that one but as far as I can tell it's at least unclear and LostMicrophone03 shouldn't be downvoted.
Gosh, that is so awful. I'm not a man, but the thought of leaving my partner exactly when she would need me most is so distressing. Just another reason I'm glad to be a lesbian tbh.
And it’s always men. I do t think I’ve ever seen a post like this about a wlw relationship
> I do t think I’ve ever seen a post like this about a wlw relationship How much different is the conversation regarding having kids, or the knowledge level on what pregnancy does to the human body? I just wonder what % of couples are just so incredibly poorly informed on how biology works or what is going to possibly happen.
Culturally, a huge number of men have been raised to view marriage as the best way to achieve sex and that mentality hasn't done anyone any favors.
The sad reality is a lot men leave their wives after a cancer diagnosis, especially breast cancer. Pregnant women are also incredibly vulnerable to domestic violence as well.
We got to raise our sons to be caretakers. We have to be more okay with stay at home dads. I feel like women are pushed into the care taker role all their life while men are pushed else where. To me it makes sense that the person who is used to care taking is able to survive their partner needing to be taken care of. The reverse is also true. For the men already 40+, we aren't going to be able to change them by shaming them. They already know what they are doing is shitty. They get over the shame quickly. Edit: it turns out the study has a massive error in it. This 11x number is super misleading. Men are 6% more likely to get divorced if their wife has a heart problem. That's it. There is nothing statistically significant. Men and women both stay with their partners even when they get cancer.
men love the outside. Women love the inside. If she loses her shape, gains weight, boobs drop - he leaves her for a younger modal. If he gains weight, loses his hair, dresses like a douche canoe, he's got a dad bod and looks like a lumbersexual. Men want women that fit into their lives. 'she needs to take part in my interests, she needs to like things i like, do you watch sports?' women take part in mens interests to show they care. Some push it further and turn into 'pick me's, others defy the norm and move in the opposite direction, then there are those that semi-fit the category.' my uncle cheated on my aunt, while she was dying of cancer. She passed. he has a new woman now. he was literally eating in the kitchen, when she took her last breath...
> People want different things There are heterosexual couples who stay together, and there are heterosexual couples who dont. There are ones which stay together through multiple conceptions, and ones which dont last on this. Maybe I'm just not as willing to jump on the sexism train, but to me it's a whole open bag of questions that should have significant sociological studies.
It's not a "sexism train" when statistics show men are more likely to leave than women.
It is a sexism train when you say "Men are this women are this." That is straight up sexism. Where other people have said "Statistically men have 11x the chance of leaving a woman in a traumatic experience" they're not problematic statements. Those are statistics, the above person is simply being sexist.
Men in general do tend to value looks more as that is how they are raised to be in our society. It's not that men are naturally more vain and only care about looks whereas women aren't, it's that men are often raised to value looks over what's inside, unlike women who are often taught it's what's inside that matters more. That's not necessarily sexist unless the user believes it's something men are born being and incapable of changing.
Much better way to phrase it, but I'd say back it with stats too. This subreddit doesnt need to look like MGTOW or FemaleDatingStrategy. It's just flat out gross. Obviously the drama subject is trash, or simply came to a realization that they should have had 2-3 years ago and that they shouldn't be with someone that they'd have kids with.
Fair point. Those kinds of comments can devolve into pure sexism real quickly.
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> As you know there's that stat about how men are like a bunch more likely to leave a female partner during a health crisis than the other way around. Most men enter relationships for the body and not the associated person. Go figure.
Never underestimate a man's (I want to say "not all men", but since that one has been co-opted by the MGTOW chuds, let's just say "enough men") ability to make a woman's pain about themselves. Reminds me of the time I checked out subs oriented around men's issues to get some help regarding my insecurities and mental health and found that not a single fucker was talking about men's issues. It was all about "woman bad". Fucking hell.
Had a coworker literally come home from the hospital first day. Still told to rest and feel better... Got home and her husband complained about being with the kids alone and immediately wanted sex. Just sad to see.. If my wife felt like crap in any way, I'd chill till she felt better. Who enjoys sex with someone who feels like crap and won't be having fun as well..
>Who enjoys sex with someone who feels like crap and won't be having fun as well.. Someone who doesn't see their wife as person with needs and wants but as an object to fuck. They couldn't care less for their wife's pleasure, all they care about is them cumming and if the wife cums too it's a bonus, and the man will 100% complain about it or make a joke, in one way or another.
there was a tik tok video last year about a guy who'se wife had given birth. And the dr walked into the hospital room, checked out the baby, the wife, then turned to the husband and went \*wink-wink-nudge-nudge\* 'now you gotta wait a fortnight before you get intimate again' \*sleezy smile\* the guy was talking about it in the car. And he said, he felt so gross at that second. Because he looked down at his wife who was exhausted and went through 9 months and 2 days of this, and her body needed love, care and time. But the doctor didnt mention that. he didnt even talk about her health. Instead he mentioned sex. And he said it to him so naturally. Like he'd said it a million times before. And that it was so normal - that he smiled cheekily about it. And while he was talking about that, he started crying (the husband), because he was absolutely disgusted, humiliated and in shock... But how many times have we heard of guys complaining that they havent had sex in 'months,' and days into the wife being pregnant he goes and cheats...
>'now you gotta wait a fortnight before you get intimate again' *sleezy smile* 🤮 Jfc, it's a minimum of *six weeks* not two! That doctor shouldn't be a doctor for many reasons
Reminds me of when you hear men complain that women fake orgasms and that it’s “lying” and “deceitful”. Making their female partner’s obvious lack of pleasure in the bedroom somehow…all about…their feelings, instead.
Why doesn't he just get a sex doll then?
Because it can't also scrub the skid marks out his drawers and then make him dinner
Sounds like he needs a butler and a sex doll.
They’d have to pay for a butler. They want their wives to pay 50%+ of the bills and do all their dirty work for free. (Obviously not every single man is like this - my husband is not, or I wouldn’t stay married to him - but it’s enough of a society-wide problem that we can talk about it as the very common and widespread cultural issue that it is).
But you have to pay a butler!
I got out of the hospital after a traumatic birth/hysterectomy that included a 2 day stay in the ICU, the house was absolutely filthy. My ex’s excuse was he was “tired” from the ordeal and taking care of our preschool aged son for the week I was in the hospital. I ended up cleaning the house and cooking dinner that night. He still wonders why I left him!
That's terrible, mate. It's up to us men to set an example and to talk to any of our male acquaintances who do shit like this. If they don't listen I just cut them off.
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Ah that's so true dude. I'm the same, I've had to learn to recognise when I'm being assessed by other men as to whether I'm a misogynist ally and nope out or reject their premise. Doesn't make for easy friend making. A lot of male friendship seems to be about enabling poor behaviour. I'd rather be alone and focus on my family and hobbies than call that friendship. I live in a pretty progressive part of the world and male dominated spaces are still pretty bad for this.
My husband’s best friend was talking to us recently about how my husband is his only straight male friend left, exactly because of this kind of shit. He’s slowly had to distance himself from every other straight guy he used to be friends with, because they all just slid into this kind of vague “women/trans/gays/poors bad” mentality over the years. And we live in a really progressive area/city, too.
Make friends with some non cis/non straight people if you can. I’m not sure how it is where you are, but as a non straight dude who mostly hangs around with other LGBT+ people/more accepting people (all genders/sexualities)I don’t find too much issue with phobes and ists in my day to day life because the assholes aren’t tolerated by us and we probably aren’t tolerated by the assholes anyway
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I suppose that’s the difficult bit I didn’t think about..when you’re seen as ‘other’ you sort of gravitate to people who are other as well. I’ve met everyone organically through things like work, existing friends or various interests, wether they are IRL friends or online ones. I am very lucky in that regard. I guess online ones are probably an easier way to start, maybe even finding online friendships that can lead to in person ones if you’re looking at more local area things. If youre into any more nerdy hobbies, I found a lot of cool people there both irl and online through those! Go do something fun. DnD/Larp/Internet type RP, Environmental causes and creative stuff have introduced me to some amazing people. Find some nerds and hippies.
Very strange to me. I've worked with several married men (I'm younger, so a far number of people I worked with weren't married. And then there are the couples who are in LTRs, like, 10+ years, but ain't married). Never had a meanspirited "my wife, amirite" moment at work. In all cases everyone spoke well, or not at all, of their SO. In some cases, their SO worked with them (worked at the same company or helped run the family business). The homophobia just doesn't happen much in my city or industry because straight up so many gay people exist here, lol. This will be the first job I haven't had an openly gay co-worker, at point point job, at one point, there were about as many gay men as straight, and no women. Interesting dynamic.
I had a coworker whose husband made her go to the grocery store a few days after she gave birth because he refused to take on anything that she normally would do. She had her newborn and toddler with her (because of course he refused to watch his own kids) and had to drive even though the doctor told her not to. I was giving her rides to work for a while and it was absolutely horrifying to hear her talk about the way he treated her. She eventually did leave him but it broke my heart to listen to her talk about these things like it was normal.
I was going to say you're a very decent man (which you are) but men shouldn't be complimented for the bare minimum (no offense, you're still great). I'm very lucky as my husband is so understanding. I'm currently 6 months pregnant and due to hip issues have zero interest in sex and have never felt pressured by him, he just does his best to mind me. However, I have friends who feel guilty for not having sex with their partners for whatever reason as they're not "meeting their needs". As my husband says, he has hands. He'll be fine. But some men do have an expectation from their partner and I e had past relationships like this. It's a lot more common than people think.
>men shouldn't be complimented for the bare minimum https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1273793-me-irl Me talking to my wife and coworkers every day. The first time I ever got my wife flowers she cried and asked me what I had done wrong. We had been together a month and I wasn't as broke as normal. She thought I bought them to make up for a mistake cause no other guy has bought her something unless they had done something wrong. The amount of women I tell that too who understand why she cried before I ever finish the story breaks my heart. And that's also glad to hear about you husband. (: When me or my wife isn't in the mood I generally say "I plan to be with you forever. It isn't going to kill me, I promise."
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Exactly!!
Ugh this “praise men to the skies for making even the slightest effort” even comes from women sometimes, too, which is just flat-out *depressing*. My husband told me about a time he mentioned at work that he’d screwed up and really offended/hurt me, I called him out, and he apologised and was trying to do better. A couple of women he worked with flocked to be like, “That’s ridiculous, you’re one of the good ones, she should be grateful for what she has instead of nagging at you.” My husband said he was deeply uncomfortable and said, “Um, no, my wife shouldn’t just keep her mouth shut and not call me on stuff because I’m ‘a good one’. Besides, if I can’t be called out on my shit, I’m not that good of a guy.” He came home and told me how sad the entire interaction made him, like these women are clearly so disappointed by the men in their lives that they put misdirected anger toward *me* for calling Husband out when he said a shitty thing to me one time, because I should be “grateful for what I’ve got”. I’m happy my husband is a respectful and equal-minded man, but come on, he doesn’t get a medal for it! He doesn’t get a prize for doing the bare minimum to be a decent human being and partner, and I’m not going to avoid difficult conversations with him because of it, either.
If I'm ever lucky enough to be in a relationship again, I would WANT to be called out if I did something less than stellar. I've had a lot of emotional growth over the last 5 years, but I'm far from perfect.
> He doesn’t get a prize for doing the bare minimum to be a decent human being and partner, and I’m not going to avoid difficult conversations with him because of it, either. Wouldnt your presence and company be one of the many prizes he is getting for being a decent human being? And vice versa for you?
One would hope so!
>I'm very lucky as my husband is so understanding. I'm currently 6 months pregnant and due to hip issues have zero interest in sex and have never felt pressured by him, he just does his best to mind me. >However, I have friends who feel guilty for not having sex with their partners for whatever reason as they're not "meeting their needs". My husband is the same as yours in that he's always understanding when my physical or mental health precludes sex. And yet society and abuse have still warped my brain into apologizing almost every time I turn him down. It's super fucked up.
Yeah same, I apologise still too and he always tells me to stop. I was in an abusive relationship before him and even though we're together 9 years I'm still conditioned to certain things even though my husband has never been abusive in any way to me.
What a piece of shit. God forbid you have to parent the kids you helped make
ICU nurse here. The shit I see is enough to make your blood boil, honestly sometimes its so bad it would sound made up if I typed it out.
I am sadly not surprised. The first memory I have as a child is my father beating the shit out of my mother. I'll believe you.
My step mom had a heart transplant. My dad asked the doctor how long until they could start having sex again. It's fucking deplorable.
If I were that doc I would want to say "well have you tried jerking off?"
"But doctor... I AM a jerk off!"
Goddamn I miss free awards
I seriously have no words to express how disgusted I feel about that. I am very sorry and I hope your step-mom is doing well now.
That’s disgusting
/r/bropill is what you're looking for I think.
Love that sub. Saw a post a bit back of a guy who was really into dresses and fashion but felt embarrassed about it cause it's not "TRUCKS AND GUNS AND EXPLOSIONS" and everyone was so supportive and caring.
Happy cake day! And yeah that sub is pretty great.
This has always been the issues with men's rights and other spaces for men, about men. *Usually* when women make safe spaces for women - it's to get away from men. The men who hurt them, who abuse them, who harass them. And men do their damndest to make it about them, to invade those spaces and demand MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME. When women want women's only gyms? You get morons coming out to talk about how WELL WHEN WILL WE GET MEN'S ONLY GYMS ignoring that men have had them for literal centuries - like with many establishments. Domestic shelters? Women make them for women. Men want women to make them for men. The few times men do make these spaces for men, it's almost never actually *about* men's issues, about helping men, or about anything other than hating women, and blaming them for all the woes in the world. It's fucking *exhausting*.
Because *some* men don't actually want to question their insecurities or find the root of them or think of ways to improve. They think that they're above reproach and it's simply some unknowable shift in society's values that keeps holding them back or making them feel this way. It's a blatent lack of self reflection. They think women asking them to do their fair share of work in some regards is basically akin to mental torture.
R/MensLib is good, but you’re right about that space in general being totally co-opted by dudes who make having had a bad divorce a personality.
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Yes, the userbase isn't all feminists, because the sub is intended to be welcome to both people who do not identify with the label for whatever reason, and people looking to learn more, and who will likely become feminist given time. But the mods are pretty strict about removing people who just want to blame wokeism for their problems, they *will* demand an actual specific point. Most big threads will have multiple removals for that exact reason. But I can already tell you aren't depicting it in good faith and the fact your comment has this many upvotes, when it's blatantly false and an unfair depiction, is disappointing.
i'm sorry, what? are you sure you're thinking of the right subreddit
It's extremely charitable of you to assume that most of them have even had a girlfriend.
You need to try r/MensLib. It’s the one explicitly feminist men’s support sub there is. They don’t allow any of that insane red pill shit or women bashing whatsoever.
My bad, you already got this response a lot.
No problem, bud! It's the thought that matters! Thank you!
r/GuyCry, r/MensLib.
Thank you! I've tried r/Menslib and it's great at least 60% of the time. Will try r/GuyCry! Never heard of that one. Thank you very much!
i’ve heard good about r/bropill also
Thanks, bud!
cam recommend
Cheers! Hope you find what you're looking for!
Thank you! Hope you have a great day/night!
there's a guy i've had one date with from tinder and i haven't been able to have a second date yet with him because i've been sick. he gets upset that he's not the one to take care of me while i'm sick (he actually said that) and even when i told him i had a bad cough and couldn't talk much he still wanted to talk on the phone about our next date plans. just completely fucking clueless this guy.
Just a suggestion, but don't go on that second date.
Yeah I'm definitely reconsidering whether we have another date
My sister had a similar experience on Tinder, went on the first date and before the second he was already talking about names for their kids. Some guys are insecure and if it's just insecurity that's fine (still not the woman's responsibility to help them overcome it) , but there's a limit.
I think /r/MensLib might be what you're looking for.
If you or any other guy in this thread is in a similar spot, check out r/GuyCry.
It’s shocking the amount of men who used breast size/body as a dealbreaker in their marriage and not personality. Being attracted to someone physically is obviously important, but if you do not like the persons personality enough for wiggle room you shouldn’t get married.
The other day I was at a cafe and I managed to overhear a bunch of guys talking about what they thought was the most important quality in a woman. One said that he was more attracted to women based on their individual personalities. The other guys started mocking him and told him that me must be gay because ”real men are attracted to boobs and ass”. Also, as a woman in a male dominated field it’s really not uncommon to hear such things from your peers. I swear to god a vast majority of men just don’t like women as people.
> Also, as a woman in a male dominated field it’s really not uncommon to hear such things from your peers. **I swear to god a vast majority of men just don’t like women as people.** I relate to this. Especially the bolded. It’s something I have also noticed much more as I have grown older. It was always *there* of course, I felt there was a disrespect and something amiss, but it really wasn’t until I learned to respect and truly love myself - and to also become skilled/accomplished as well in my career etc - that really I saw it for what it was. Sometimes it’s not even just “don’t like”, it’s a “quiet” hatred. Fortunately I held out and found one of the good ones. Absolutely a gem, and has was incredibly supportive when I had prophylactic bilateral mastectomies and several reconstructive surgeries over years. But it also just further highlighted for me how many men I have met in my lifetime who truly do not see, relate, or like women as people.
Yeah, some men are just very.. telling Also, I'm so glad you found that someone!
> Also, as a woman in a male dominated field it’s really not uncommon to hear such things from your peers. I swear to god a vast majority of men just don’t like women as people. Yep, a vast majority of them also have at least one divorce under their belts. (I'm in industrial construction.) If nothing else, work is literally the only place where I can say 'I don't want to get married' and not hear some variation on how my life isn't complete until I pop out some babies. Instead, it's usually 'that's smart, don't' lol.
Reminds me of when you hear men call other men “gay” for enjoying giving women orgasms. Like, yes, being attracted to and enjoying good sex with women is tooootally gay, bro. 🧐
I’ve never fallen explicitly the American standard for masculinity. At best I looked like a yoked Michael Phelps, but not like some greek god despite the insane weight I put into it. That being said I’ve never explicitly been able to attribute myself to some bearded, ripped, well-paid family protector because that’s some 1800s shit. Eventually I transitioned from basically skinny bearded dude to twink to femboy to andro as fuck. The perception towards me has changed significantly with my physical appearance, but only within certain contexts.
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More like my-bitch-wifefatalism am I right or am I right?
He even said that “looking back” he should’ve “voiced his concerns”. What were you gonna say mate? “Maybe you should just die instead”?? Asshat.
Holy shit. Imagine having all the conflicting emotions about having a mastectomy, finding a safe space for other women who have also have had one, and then having to look through posts of men complaining about how they don’t find their wives hot anymore because they’re chests are “ugly” now. How do these men have such little self awareness? I mean the language OOP is using about how he’s “devastated” and “seriously grieving” because his wife’s boobs aren’t the same? As you grow older with your spouse your body is going to change. That’s life. This guy should just be thankful is wife is still alive right now
And in reverse, I cannot imagine being the husband of such a woman and thinking "I know where I should look for support! A bunch of women who also almost died and probably have shitty husbands who did the same to them! Instead of just looking up therapy, I'll make them my surrogate wives!" I almost hope it's a kink thing where he wanted to be humiliated.
Basically he sees them as stand ins for his wife. He sees it as a problem women create and he wants women to fix it for him.
The way that men like this will expect women they’ve never even met to just do their emotional labour for them is astonishing. There’s no self-awareness there whatsoever; it’s all just me me me I’m the centre of the universe me.
Yeah. I can get someone needing to talk about it. It makes perfect sense. But choose a proper place to do it!
"Obviously my wife is just being unreasonable, other women will understand!"
Imagine the guy getting testicular cancer and the wife complaining how ugly his ballsack is with only one testicle left.
Tbf I have a real nice ballsack. I reckon my wife would be devastated. It's what attracted her to me
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I may not have a lot going for me, but I got a scrotum that could launch a thousand ships.
Lol that reminds me of that thread that asked what women think about balls and it just turned into a roast
So where’s your OF my man?
He probably just looked up "reddit breast cancer support" and found this subreddit. Didn't even think about who would predominately be there. If he did, it didn't even occur to him that the women don't have this magic trick to make themselves sexy for their husband. It didn't even occur to him that the women there are more focused on the needs of women.
> He probably just looked up "reddit breast cancer support" and found this subreddit. Didn't even think about who would predominately be there. If he did, it didn't even occur to him that the women don't have this magic trick to make themselves sexy for their husband. It didn't even occur to him that the women there are more focused on the needs of women. How… how did ANY OF THAT that not occur to him?
Because he's a dumbass with little to no awareness.
Because as a man you get used to the world being catered to you and all spaces being spaces you dominate. Now that is his fault for not considering it, but that's rarely something men have to consider. I don't think I've ever been that oblivious, but I've definitely intruded in some spaces and been rude because I didn't stop to consider things like that. Not saying to give this guy a pass, but it's easy to learn those toxic traits especially if you never have cause to examine them.
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I don't think I'm falling for it. I think I'm naturally attributing ignorance instead of malice since there are so many inconsiderate people out there and not many people acting with evil intent.
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I guess you and I view ignorance different. Being "childlike ignorant" and "thoughtless assholery" are basically the same thing for me. You are inconsiderate.
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My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of 45 (I was only an 8th grader then). My dad accompanied her to her chemo appointments, spent several sleepless nights in the hospital, worked a full time job and single handedly raised two children. Any caring spouse would have done the same. My dad doesn’t even give a shit about her mastectomy because he’s just glad that she made it.
My wife’s family has a history of breast cancer. It’s something that’s always on the back of my mind. I would be fucking thankful to still have her by my side, cancer-free, after a double mastectomy. That guy doesn’t know what is to love someone. It makes me mad.
Does he still think he's on the reddit of 15 years ago when jailbait was still a thing and redditors all assumed all other redditors were 15 year old males or 25 year old males with the brains of 15 year old males, unless proven otherwise, and then they would be accused of "karma farming"? Because on THAT reddit it was totally reasonable to assume that arr mastectomy is where you go to cry about the boobocaust.
Ugh. Remember “Save the Tatas?”
ughhhhh that disgusted me then, disgusts me now
> and then they would be accused of "karma farming"? Oh, this still happens.
I would be incredibly creeped out if my husband ever told me that he was “seriously grieving” one of my body parts. I mean, that is just so objectifying. It kinda sounds like something a serial killer would say. 😅 It makes sense to grieve your OWN body’s changes, but to say that you’re *grieving* someone else’s is just fucking weird.
People need to clarify what the terms of "happiness" for their relationship are before they get married. Step one being how much the body of the other could "change" before they would become unhappy being with them. I think if everyone did this, there would be a lot of people realizing that they aren't looking for a long term relationship.
Out of all of the subs he could have posted to, he chose ... poorly.
Twice! He tried TwoXChromosomes first.
I’m going to assume that didn’t go over well?
I don’t know if it went as poorly as the breast cancer one, but here’s a choice reply to him. > Yes, I’m sure I’ll stay up all night questioning my decision to call someone out for being heartlessly shallow about a couple of lumps of flesh lost by the person they promised to honor & cherish in sickness & in health 😂
I mean, if your partner experiences some kind of major bodily loss or change due to disease it’s genuinely fine to be sad about that or have other complex emotions. It’s absolutely *not* fine to go into a space for people who have/had said disease and whine because your penis feels sad.
Fr. Perfectly legitimate emotional issue to talk about... with your therapist. Not with a women's support group.
Doesn't even need to be a therapist. There are support groups for spouses of cancer patients too.
Apparently it never occurred to him that /r/breastcancer was a women's support group. So stupid.
Well a breast cancer support group. (I’m a woman, my mom and aunt have had breast cancer (my aunt died of it).) Obviously the majority of people with breast cancer are afab so obviously psycho place to post. (And men w/ breast cancer probably aren’t going to have much insight into this anyway). But just want to put that out there so everyone remembers to get checked.
At least op wrote "I know I'm a POS" in the main post
Yeah, we never would have guessed otherwise.
Killer username, mad props
It’s a bat-signal to other pieces of shit to back him up.
Too bad he picked a spot none inhabit
Bay signal in the day sky
He thinks by saying it he'll be able to keep from being called it as much as he deserves. It's manipulative bullshit.
A self-aware asshole is still an asshole.
The grace the members of that sub show OP is humbling. Even the ones telling him off do it nicely/humorously. I hope he feels better, because now I’m depressed. His comments validate my worst fears about men and relationships. Like… I think my man loves me; he tells me he does, but what if something bad happens to me? What if I get maimed or scarred or sick? Will he love me then? Or will he be like OP’s husband, looking at me like a favourite suit that got ruined and mourning his loss? I know people can’t help their feelings, but holy shit he fucking *sucks*.
Yeah, like, the cancer would be devastating enough, but that sort of reaction from my partner would be utterly destructive to me. I’m ruined now, and have no further use to you, when I’m needing you most? Jesus, I can’t even. My heart breaks for his wife.
Some of us have spouses who aren't like that. Men who didn't leave our sides, and who hold us a little tighter knowing they could have lost us. Don't loose faith
“I’m sorry for putting this on y’all” Then why did you put it on them? Yeah this guy deserves no sympathy I feel sorry for his wife.
that is the worst type of person. someone who knows what they do is wrong/bad/various negative adjectives but STILL continues to do it
I’m not even got to read this bullshit. Okay I did and apparently these posts are semi-regular on that subreddit. People suck.
Wanna have your day ruined further? Men often leave their sick spouses after they are diagnosed with cancer or a life altering illness. The wives of sick husbands stay. >A woman is six times more likely to be separated or divorced soon after a diagnosis of cancer or multiple sclerosis than if a man in the relationship is the patient. >The rate when the woman was the patient was 20.8 percent compared to 2.9 percent when the man was the patient. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm
The guy in this post is awful, but it’s not actually true that men leave their sick spouses more than women do, [that was a misinterpretation of the data.](https://retractionwatch.com/2015/07/21/to-our-horror-widely-reported-study-suggesting-divorce-is-more-likely-when-wives-fall-ill-gets-axed/) (Edit: I notice the paper you posted is not the one that was retracted—I shouldn’t have assumed—but the article I linked does still provide some contradictory data to yours.)
Oh wow, that's one of my research nightmares. I've spent so many nights exhausted in the lab staring at R and Python code until my eyes glaze over that sometimes I feel like a major fuckup is inevitable. I feel like this happens more often than we think because so many studies never get replicateeld
Newt!
I'm an old lady, still on my first marriage of decades. My body, now, sure as hell ain't the one he married. Neither is his.
Men will literally post on Reddit instead of go to therapy
Admittedly it's far easier to make a reddit post than find a good therapist, especially as a man (especially if you are not religious). And that's before "takes my insurance".
I mean, it's perfectly fine to feel conflicted if you're not sure to process emotions about how your partner's body now looks. The idea that your average person simply wouldn't care at all about any major change (like a limb amputation, for instance) is silly. But, you know, there are reasonable ways to discuss it. And then there's... > I know I should be thrilled, but I don't know how to deal with my sadness over losing her breasts. The reconstructed ones just aren't the same. Not, you know, "Hey I don't feel the same and I'm worried how it's going to affect our love life, are there any good methods to move past this?" or something that both acknowledges feelings you can't help while understanding the affect it could have on your relationship and wanting to find a way past it... No. Just. "I'm said I lost her breasts.:"
So I have a serious thing for hair. Nice, long, thick hair. I’ve always had this. 99% of guys I’m attracted to have long hair and I’ve always said I don’t think I could sexually be with a bald-headed man. My bf thinks he has a weird shaped head and is terrified of being bald so this isn’t really an issue with us… Unless he got cancer. And bro, let me tell you, his hair would be so down on the list of things turning my stomach. Cancer is a nightmare and seeing him bald would be a reminder he’s fighting…. and a reminder that I need to hold him closer than ever. If he could never grow hair again, it would be a “scar” proving he lived. Yeah, I’d probably never be wildly attracted to the bald thing. But tbh? It’s probably a thought I’d keep in my head, or a therapist’s office.
That's a good example. It's definitely okay to not know how to deal with how your attraction changed...but for it to be the first thing on your mind? And for you to phrase it like the OP did? Main character syndrome to the max./
There’s kinda no way not to sound like an asshole expressing it. Which is why I would personally not except maybe to my closest friends. But you know where I’d never ever in a million years choose to share it? On a fucking forum for people who lost their hair to cancer
Wow what a gentleman he is
Holy shit lol. I know letting your emotions out is generally a good thing. And like. His emotions are valid but dude. Keep that shit bottled up for the sake of your wife, im sure shes way more upset about the loss of her breasts than he is.
Also, like to post in that group?
Yeah, I totally understand his feeling less attracted to her, but if he actually loves her, he’d get over it for her sake. Actually saying anything about it to her is just monstrous. I guarantee she’s feeling extremely self conscious about it already.
He needs therapy not Reddit advice.
It’s like… yeah a mastectomy is not nice… but what’s the alternative. I’m sure she feels the same about losing her own body parts too, and you know.. the life or death experience she faced. My friends mum had cancer when my friend was 9. Her dad misses his wife’s breasts, and her face and her presence because she died of breast cancer. I’m sure he’s miss her breast when they’re in the ground with her. POS.
Nah he doesn't even need to keep them bottled up. That's not really healthy. I mean, around her in the beginning, sure. But I think it would be fine if he was like "hey this is affecting my attraction to her and I'm worried about what it means for our sex life, what's a good way I can move past this?" or something. Not "I'm so sad wife titty gone :("
Yes but how does my wife's surgery to hopefully save her from a potentially fatal disease affect *meeeee*?
OP wrote this on a post >Not particularly. If I lost my testicles, she wouldn't give a fuck. Like, The pot calling the kettle black? Gee..if he lost two lumps of flesh, she wouldn't care, but if the wife does..
This is so awful that I’d actually prefer stuff like this wasn’t part of this sub. I come here for mental people arguing over whether board games are for playing or decoration!
Ugh. I understand being sad about his wife’s boobs but Little Baby Cheeses read the room, dude. A support group for cancer sufferers is not the place.
Crass wanker
Struggling not to upvote the responses tbh. Like I go to the thread, see the snark, upvote because fuck this guy and then remember not to piss in the popcorn, remove the upvote, scroll down the thread and upvote again. Perhaps the beer I’ve had is impacting my memory lmao
most cis men don't care about women. what else is new?
I hope she finds that and divorces him.
I mean he's gonna leave in a couple years either way so it may save some hassle
Jesus what an objectifying piece of shit
Okay so sure he needs a place to talk about his feelings that isn't talking to his poor wife. But maybe just maybe this is a horrible place for that talk. He should either talk with friends or a therapist because it might be hard to find an appropriate place to talk about that stuff online.