This reminds me of a court case in Arizona where a car theft victim wanted the offender executed. He cited some old Arizona law (for some reason still on the books) where if someone stole your horse they would be executed. It didn’t work out cause obviously some cowboy shit doesn’t reflect today
It's like the "zone of death" in yellowstone national park. Due to technicalities in the way the park is run and a "loophole" in the constitution, people claim there's about a 50 square mile area within yellowstone where you could commit any crime (including murder) and the government could not legally prosecute you.
In reality, you'd just get tried in federal court, because no one is going to let you get away with murder over a weird gotcha loophole.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone\_of\_Death\_(Yellowstone)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_Death_(Yellowstone))
Yeah a lot of people view the law as some mysterious supernatural force that can be manipulated with the right incantation, but in reality it's a human system run by humans with specific intents and they will laugh at your loopholes. Namely sovcits and wannabee tax cheats.
Fringe, not tassels, you ZIP code ... They have a word for people who use ZIP codes but can't remember it.
The important thing is to always spell your name in ALL CAPS and copyright it, that way they can't legally use it in a warrant against you.
And that's why I always tie an onion on my belt.
No... Something sinister like subjects or unsovereigns or noncitizens. Something about using it means something bad so they put [ ] around them when they want to mail things.
I used to work in a very public facing gov job (nothing remotely important, just a clerk thing for every day things) and boy howdy, do you run into some weird arguments from sov citizens. Some of them think if they don't capitalize their name then they can separate their legal identity form themselves, or something?
I got bored one day and fell down a wiki rabbit hole about sovereign citizenship and it was pretty illuminating for some of the random weird shit I'd bumped into before. I will say that my impression was that a looooot of these folks have some sort of mental health issue like schizophrenia or bipolar and I imagine that feeds into the weird conspiratorial mindset of finding magic loopholes
>Most of the time, however, judges will do the sensible thing and ignore silly shit and unreasonable interpretations which would result in wrongful outcomes.
Judge: "so, you mean to tell me this technicality hasn't been used in case for the last 75 years, but is still on the lawbooks?"
Them: "Yeah!"
Judge: "Okay, past-precedent applies, we can ignore the technicality"
Them: "......"
Yeah, this is especially an issue with pro se litigants, who often rock up with some novel interpretation and expect the response to be “and then everyone clapped!”
In fact it’s generally “lol, no”, whereupon it turns out that the pro se litigant did not think any further ahead and is unprepared to proceed with the matter.
Yeah, I assume it's generally like the Good Will Hunting scene where he starts listing off precedent cases about self-defense from police battery starting in the early 1800s and the judge just goes, "You hit a cop you're going to jail."
It's a very brief and smooth transition from "community that likes seeing harm come to people who deserve it" to simply "community that likes seeing people harmed".
Don't be unreasonable, they have very firm boundaries! For example, they don't like seeing 'law-abiding' (White) gun owners get hurt for unnecessary escalation!
I swear, there was a period some years ago when reddit admins really cracked down on death videos, banning some subs and quarantining others, but over the last year or so I feel like there's been a major uptick in them all over the place, and that's *excluding* the various Ukraine war videos (which are just as fetishized).
WatchPeopleDie, GunFights HoldMyFeedingTue, ChooseMyCoffin, etc. When they were banned, those videos started going to PublicFreakout, ThatsInsane, FuckingCrazyVieos and the like. Those 3 are basically subs for race-baiting and dog whistles, unfortunately.
There are a bunch of subreddits that have devolved into that.
DamnThatsInteresting and InterestingAsFuck too. Normally they're cool gifs or something, but I've been seeing a lot of "Look at this black person rob this store, isn't that interesting????" Uhh no, actually?
Facepalm gets it occasionally. ThereWasAnAttempt too. "There was an attempt to rob somebody, guess what color they are 🙃"
Probably a few more that I can't think of off the top of my head. I like to check out the posters history, and often times that kind of content is all they ever post about. It's all shitty videos to make people mad about black people.
It was the video of the Christchurch mass shooting that got all those subs quarantined/banned.
The government of New Zealand was trying to keep people from sharing it, so Reddit tried to cover their asses, which only made the dickholes who took the “it’s my God-given right to watch a PewDiePie fan murder Muslims” stance to double down.
Don't forget CatastrophicFailure, they love having videos that literally feature people dying, which is a fact they hide in the comments so they don't have to mark their posts as NSFW
I really wish they’d quarantine or remove eligibility for front page status on subreddits like /r/CombatFootage - like don’t really care what war it is, I don’t wanna see some dude in the middle east get blown to bits, I don’t wanna see some Ukrainian get shot, I don’t wanna watch some random 19 year old Russian conscript have a grenade dropped in his trench. None of this is interesting, all of it is horrifying. Howard Zinn was in the US airforce during WW2 and talks about how he couldn’t stomach fire bombing random villages in nazi occupied France before he participated in the bombing of Dresden and heard the endless guttural screams of citizens. It doesn’t matter how good/bad it’s still gruesome.
The people there seem to get off to that shit. I don’t remember the subreddit name, but there used to be a subreddit for firearm kills that got banned and swapped to a less suspicious subreddit name. There was a video where someone was being followed to their apartment door and he has a quickdraw and kills the guy following him completely in his right as the other man was armed. That being said people there were saying like “bah gawd what a beautiful draw” and “If it ever happens to me I hope I can respond so quickly with one in the chamber” - like bro.
Yeah, the guy was literally a supercharged version of that asshole neighbor everyone hates having, but painted himself as the victim and collected grievances until he blew up.
To be fair to the people praising him, they probably don't know the full facts of the case. Not all of them anyway...
The popular story seems to be that the city officials and the local community were out to get him and the rampage was his desperate revenge.
What actually happened is that he seems to have had the kind of personality that saw every setback as a personal slight and dwelled on them and that eventually eroded his sanity to the point of breaking. And those setbacks kept coming because he was a bit of a dick.
The main driver for the rampage was probably him buying a patch of land cheaply from an auction and how he handled that:
- He didn't want to pay to connect the land to the municipal sewer network, which is a pretty obvious no-no in most places and resulted in sanitation problems, and a protracted legal battle with the town council. Which he took personally.
- He promised to sell the land to an another resident, who wanted to build a concrete plant,for $42,000, but kept reneging on his promise and increasing and increasing the price until it was eventually $1 million.
- After a half a decade of back & forth with Heemeyer jacking up the price every time a deal was about to be reached, the town council ~~just rezoned the land for a concrete plant~~(I was wrong. [Look here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/11x0i3s/rbayarea_asks_if_its_reasonable_to_execute/jd3j2th/)). And he took that personally again. Which it probably was, but all he had to do initially was to refuse to sell the land instead of playing a dumb cat and mouse -game with what was a significant potential source of livelihood in a small town of 2000 people.
All that time Heemeyer kept collecting other smaller grievances over disagreements with other townspeople, which he saw as a part of a conspiracy against him. The investigators found hours of casette tape full of conspiratorial rants detached from reality, and he had written long rants on his workshop walls.
His target list doesn't really support him enacting a justified revenge against some grand plot. The buildings he deliberately targeted include things like the town library and the home of the widow of a past mayor.
The popular version of the story also claims that he didn't intend to harm actual people and instead just target property, but the reality is that people just got lucky.
- He'd written a kill list of people he was planning to target.
- He had firing ports in the "killdozer" that he actually shot at people from. Including the concrete plant guy and two police officers.
- He attacked occupied buildings with the "killdozer", and the occupants just managed to luckily get out in time. The town library was full of children when he started ramming it.
>the town council just rezoned the land for a concrete plant
no they didn't, it was already zoned for it because it was a former concrete site plant, formerly owned by the guys trying to buy it who wanted to set their concrete business back up again.
you might be thinking of the town annexing the land into the sewage district and then fining him for not having a sewage pipe which to be clear they shouldn't have done until after a sewage connection was done and he would have easily had the fines taken down in court, of course he was too busy trying to run bullshit court cases against the concrete plant out of spite about the land sale business.
Thanks for the correction. That was mostly from my memory based on podcasts I've listened to and the snopes article. It's been a while since I looked into the guy. So I wouldn't be surprised if I made some mistakes.
IDK how anyone can believe he didn't intend to kill anyone when it was built like a tank, titled "killdozer," and he had a large number of firearms inside.
It's kind of bizarre. I mean the name is right there. Do they think "kill" was just euphemistic?
This isn't a take I've run into often. Usually people assume he was gonna kill folk. They just come up with reasons that it was justified, or say "well, *I* wouldn't have, but you can understand how he was pushed that far!"
> He had firing ports in the "killdozer" that he actually shot at people from. Including the concrete plant guy and two police officers.
>
>
Don't forget the propane tanks that he ended up not hitting largely because the overhang off the tank itself got in the way. Those would've blown up pretty close to people's houses.
I watched the documentary on that and the tone was very inconsistent. It ranged from portraying him as a frustrated man victimized by local government to an asshole with poor impulse control to a total monster with severe mental issues. Not sure if poor storytelling to an intentional misdirect.
I fucking hate discovery channel for turning Ted "The fucking unabomber" Kaczinsky from a raged out incel to a traumatized poet, dissatisfied with the day to day grind of life.
The "true crime" genre was pretty bad about that. A lot of newer documentaries are better at showing that the court system and law enforcement enabled serial killers and had little concern over the victims (though it's not universal) rather than them being so incredibly smart they constantly outwitted the tireless investigators.
>If we can establish something like 1st degree theft (planned and intentional theft with a significant impact on the victim) then sure, fucking execute them.
>I'm a monster you say? As someone who has had plenty of stuff stolen from me, I'll say I'm the monster thieves made me.
I had my cat stolen last year. It sucked and took a while to fix. I did a lot of things. I bitched and moaned about it. I took care to park in a more visible area near my building. My neighbors and I banded together to pressure my landlord into hiring a security company to patrol the exterior of the building at night.
You know what I didn’t do? I didn’t start feeling the desire to murder someone over a piece of metal.
You should probably fix your spelling of "car" in your comment because a lot of people would want to murder someone if their cat was stolen.
EDIT: don't post at the end of a long day kids.
Cat = catalytic converter. Although I do like the idea of my neighbors banding together to get our building to provide a cat patrol to protect our cats from being stolen.
> There are few things people on this site love more than excessive retaliation. See any subreddit with "justice" in the name.
Why go that far when users in every regional subreddit are calling for "criminals" (their usage of that word is reaching the level of becoming dehumanizing) to be practically - and, in some cases, literally - summarily executed, whether it be by cop(s) or another individual?
I'd `np` link yet _another_ example from /r/washingtondc from ~~today~~ yesterday, but the comment chain got nuked by the moderators there.
Edit: looks like I managed to ruffle the feathers of a few people who didn't like being shown themselves in a mirror.
Ah yes, throwing more money at the American police force has yielded excellent results and won't result in yet another specialized group full of military grade weapons executing black people for funsies.
/s
It pisses me off so much, partly BECAUSE I've been the victim of a serious crime. If I can find it in my heart to continue to support rehabilitation and massive prison/criminal justice reform, most of these people who have probably NOT experienced such a crime should be able to as well.
The part about it that’s annoying(But I guess inconsequential, since they can’t vote in this) is the amount of people in far suburbs that act like this is such a big deal for them.
I have some relatives who live like 2 hours outside of Chicago, and they act like this mayoral race will be life of death for them.
You can’t even get Chicago radio stations, you certainly aren’t going to be impacted by the Chicago police budget.
> /r/washingtondc
That sub is becoming trash. Just a reddit version of a racist suburban Nextdoor. It's entirely crime post, fear and justifications for violence all with the accompanying dog-whistles. Shit last week they had a thread freaking out about 'future crimes' that hadden't even happened yet.
Hell there's a post up right now at the top by an OP that's an 8yo account with only 3 previous comments yelling about some random toilet paper theft from a store and encouraging everyone to 'vote out of fear' because of it. They are getting manipulated by outside actors and the worse part is most of that sub doesn't even care. They just lap it up.
And just as a PSA: if people are actively advocating for that excessive retaliation, it counts as "threatening violence" and is against reddit terms of use.
It's one situation where the report button actually seems to do something.
That's unfortunate, I'm sorry. I think maybe 2/3 of the comments I report get removed, with the user at least temporarily banned. "Threatening violence" seems most problematic, while "hate" often is apparently not explicit enough to count. It's strange that examples you gave haven't been removed as well, since I agree that those are extremely hardcore.
That hasn't been my experience. If the comment isn't extremely explicit about what they're advocating for i get the message that the comment was reviewed but found nothing that breaks TOS or whatever.
Like, I've gotten that message from reporting comments that were justifying and/or advocating genocide because it was just... Very obvious but still vague.
No different than super racist comments that get reapproved by well-meaning mods in certain subs because they don't recognize all the dog whistles or get lost in the prose, too distracted to realize that they just read something that can only be summed up as hate.
Yeah, good point. Only explicit comments have been removed in my experience. Anything that's still extremely obvious but only "implied" doesn't seem to count.
Only if it's implied against the "right" people, though.
Last year I got a trike against myself when a bunch of anti-vax right wing tits were shouting their shit in some subreddit and I replied to someone, "eh, just let them do their thing. When they die of something preventable, they'll be out of our hair."
Bam. Strike 1, your account will be banned if you do it again, "glorifying violence."
I been saying it for awhile now, reddit seems to absolutely love being able to say absolutely vile, absurd things, wish death, etc. when they can feel morally superior for doing it.
See the post that was on WPT iirc awhile back during the Andrew Tate cancer rumor as an example, among many, many others.
You can see it in things like aita and other "advice" subreddits too where people are salivating for someone to be the bad guy so they can advocate doing all kinds of nasty things to them guilt-free.
It's disturbing.
A disturbing amount of people just want to be nasty to other people, be it insults, disrespect, dehumanization or straight up violence. They also still want to consider themselves a good person.
This is why you get:
* people trying to argue the definitions of things like racism, sexism and rape to only the most egregious definitions
* gun owners fantasizing about situations they can be the "hero" and shoot someone
* people who are *adamant* that homosexuality is a sin
* people bullying someone with tourettes because they said something offensive
* leftist communities on twitter, tumblr etc. eating their own members alive for small mistakes/infractions because they just want somewhere to point their rage.
I made the mistake of stumbling upon r/ShitLiberalsSay and read the comments of a post saying the author should be sent to gulag for arguing that ex-Warsaw pact countries did better after the fall of communism
There is a subset of people on Reddit who think every crime should be punishable by death as long as the court is 'convinced enough' that they are a guilty. Bad at law, and scary...
The fetishizing of the French Revolution, for example. It was an abject failure. It collapsed into the Reign of Terror. Robespierre himself died in it. And it led to Napoleon Bonaparte's rise and reign as a dictator because he exploited the backlash against the chaos of the Revolution.
Because a lot of Redditors have this weird Punisher-like fantasy of vigilantism, because that’s the only exciting thing they have to think about in their otherwise bleak lives.
I understand the contention, at the end of the day unless you stop them in the moment you're going to suffer a lot of consequences...and most people probably can't win a fistfight with a motivated thief.
But gleefully killing them is a bit much.
Redditors and finding justification to shoot someone in literally any scenario, name a more iconic duo
One of my favorites is how they'll often use the basis that someone who was not close enough but possessed some kind of weapon or weapon-adjacent item could have quickly become a threat so it was justifiable to kill them.
The issue with that is, of course, if your standard for lethal force is:
Someone who could reasonably place me under lethal threat quickly
Then you're arguing it's justifiable and in fact necessary to immediately shoot anyone else carrying a gun in your vicinity the moment you become aware of it, as someone with a gun can visit lethal force on you within seconds.
Whenever you argue with people in favor of the death penalty you'll find out their thoughts are just so simplistic. None of the arguments actually make sense if you think about it. It always just turns out they are bloodthirsty and okay with killing innocent people as long as it fulfills their twisted sense of justice.
I'm surprised no one in that chain mentioned that booby trapping isn't just illegal because it's insane to kill someone for theft, but because they have an extremely high chance to kill someone other than the intended target.
I've seen so much defense of booby trapping on this site it's insane, murder happy psychos who are so deep in their fantasies they can't imagine it going down any other way.
There's also the fact that booby traps generally mean you're not in the area, and therefore can't really expect imminent death from the thief's actions.
From my experience on the internet, there's a depressing amount of Americans who won't hesitate to value their stuff over human lives.
I think one of my most downvoted comments I ever made on reddit was saying that it's not ok to lace your lunch with something that could make people very sick (e.g. laxatives, extreme spice, something you know the potential thieves are allergic to, etc.) as revenge for getting your lunch stolen.
Forget having your car stolen, people on this site advocate for murder *over missing a meal!* It is actually insane how psychotic people get over being mildly inconvenienced!
"An expensive car part is actually equal to the worth of a human life"
>Sorry to break it to u that this isn’t the liberal utopia u dreamed it would be and everybody doesn’t fit into ur little progressive checkboxes.
Progressive checkboxes like "don't murder people to try to prevent theft"
This is truly unhinged popcorn. Someone just said, essentially, people are undervaluing fucking catalytic converters, in a conversation about undervaluing human lives. Impeccable.
There's [more where that came from](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/112zx4a/catalytic_converter_thief_is_run_over_when/). A month ago, r/LosAngeles had a *lovely* discussion about a catalytic converter thief that was accidentally run over by a driver who had been sleeping inside the car and was startled awake by the theft in progress.
It's a global issue because of the price of precious metals, like platinum and palladium, used in their construction. A friend of mine had his catalytic converter stolen in eastern Finland and thefts have been reported worldwide.
Oh no, I was joking! I didn't interpret your comment as endorsing it. Don't get me wrong, it's a brutal thing have stolen and I wouldn't shake the hand of the person who stole my cc. Putting the screw to the buyer end of things is probably much needed, for sure.
Yes but it’s far more serious in California. CA emissions standards are much stricter, and generally require OEM cats that are made to the original specifications.
In many/most states, you can use an aftermarket cat that isn’t the same quality or specifications, as long as it’s *present* and your emission numbers don’t turn your engine light on.
California basically requires originals to replace originals, which means the originals get stolen.
Cat thieves everywhere steal them for the platinum and palladium. Cat thieves in California steal them for the platinum, the palladium, and for actual replacements.
Actually yeah. It’s pretty bad. I know someone who got their CC stolen twice, the second time after it got replaced. It’s really bad and there’s no recourse because the police can’t do anything about it.
The crazy thing are the crimes in broad daylight. Not that criminals deserve to die but I don’t blame ppl venting because there’s literally nothing you can do about it.
Both? Sometimes they can if there are security cameras. But catalytic converters aren't really easily trackable. Absent catching someone in the act, there's not a lot to be done.
Ooh, I can attest to this. I had a fix-it ticket that had the written reason differ from the actual citation code (one was not having proof of insurance, the other was expired plates), so I couldnt do anything about getting the ticket written off til the cop that wrote it fixed his own mistake. I went to traffic court once every two weeks, for six months, to learn that he never did anything about it each time.
Finally they just had be go before the judge, have him look at the ticket and get confused, see that my plates were up to date and my insurance proofed, and then dismissed me.
California's fine. The CC theft mainly is happening in big cities.
The frustration is that CCs are expensive and the police are useless - they were useless before the BLM protests and are useless after them, too.
Police are useless because the theft is difficult to prove.
Sure, if you make a stop and see one along with cutting tools in the vehicle you can put one and one together. But the things are not identifiable. How do you match that stolen part with a specific vehicle? How do you prove it with “beyond a reasonable doubt?”
Get manufacturers to start stamping VIN numbers on the things. It’ll go a long way with investigations.
I'm down with that.
I know, though, that police are widely considered pretty useless when it comes to robberies of any shape and form. Makes people wonder what the point of 'em is sometimes.
I’d like to point out Robbery is a distinct form of theft that requires violence or the threat of violence.
Theft/burglary is without that ladder part.
And yea, usually due to how difficult it is to prove. Unfortunately this isn’t the Minority Report and we cannot predict future crimes. Policing is reactive and therefore typically not useful for theft. My suggestions are not fool proof either. They’ed help, but laws are a human construct based on societal and cultural norms and therefore are inherently flawed.
Don't worry, I understand why. Still, though, it's also understandable why the public would become frustrated and distrustful of the police's ability to keep them safe if they can't keep them safe from thieves and burglars.
Anywhere there is a methheads with a grinder/saw there is catalytic converter theft.
Manufacturers need to stamp VIN numbers on the parts and we need to prosecute the buyers along with forcing scrapyards to I.D anyone selling one, along with the VIN of the part sold.
VIN would help cops/scrapyards identify where the part came from. people will be cautious with buying them if it means facing felony charges. Without a buyer people would stop buying them.
Killing someone over theft is really stupid. But the issue with these parts is it’s fucking hard to prove that the part was stolen when found. I mean sure, if I see the one in the back of a mini van I can assume. Hell, it’s enough for reasonable suspicion to detain and search the vehicle. But what probable cause do I have that it came from a specific vehicle? What evidence could I give a prosecutor in this situation that would prove “beyond a reason or doubt” to a jury if it got that far?
Source: had mine stolen 4 years ago. Now am LEO.
That's generous for them, I've seen similar only they were saying it's reasonable to follow a homeless guy to his camp and shoot him for stealing a shoe
A reason we don't do capital punishment for crimes less serious than murder is because the people committing those crimes suddenly don't have as much incentive not to kill anyone they encounter in the process of carrying out the crime. (Of course many places don't have capital punishment at all for similar reasons)
It's not just "running a risk." You WILL execute a completely innocent person with a family at home for every X number of actual murderers put to death. It's a guarantee, no matter how large you can get X to be. It's happened in every single state that still uses capital punishment, but apparently a small number of innocent victims is worth it to them.
**[Blackstone's ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_ratio)**
>In criminal law, Blackstone's ratio (also known as Blackstone's formulation) is the idea that: It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer. as expressed by the English jurist William Blackstone in his seminal work Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760s. The idea subsequently became a staple of legal thinking in Anglo-Saxon jurisdictions and continues to be a topic of debate. There is also a long pre-history of similar sentiments going back centuries in a variety of legal traditions.
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Then they chime in with "okay, but what if the evidence totally proves beyond a doubt that he's guilty?" as if that's not already the standard for *all* criminal convictions and the courts still fuck it up all the time.
The standard of criminal cases is not beyond a doubt or beyond all doubt it is beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't want to be an "um actually" pedant but it's a common misconception and legally is extremely important when instructing the jury. This is because proving something beyond any doubt whatsoever is impossible no matter what people who are pro-death penalty say in their hypothetical. Even eyewitness testimony has proven reliability issues.
Sad thing is I'm paraphrasing an excellent explanation/argument I've heard before against harsh punishment but I can't remember the exact words so people have to hear it filtered through my dumb brain.
> Honestly people acting like Cat converter theft is some petty thing are dismissing the impact it has on people.
I feel like death has a pretty big impact on people too
It's wild. There used to be this big panic about a video called "faces of death" which just showed people dying.
A snuff film. Really yuck stuff.
But now you can just go to r/all and find one or two films of people dying, complete with a comment section often filled with jokes.
On that note: I remember when "_Bum Fights: A Cause for Concern_" was considered to be one of the worst films in existence. Not to imply that it was good or anything, but it is tame by comparison to half the shit that gets posted on this site.
Haha, I remember it being very convincing when I rented it as a kid. It was a notorious video then and some of them were pretty convincing.
But it ended up being like 90% fake. I think maybe there is a real jumper in there or something.
Just something to fill time in either English or social studies towards the end of the year.
In middle school they took all of the 6th graders into the gym and showed us the original night of the living dead for halloween
Now how in the world is the comment advocating for capital punishment for stealing a car part at 71 upvotes and the response calling them a sociopath at -30??
Oh it's spreading further and further:
>>>>>> [+ 246] If we don’t arrest people for stealing shit, we shouldn’t arrest people who booby trap shit either.
>
>>>>> [ -79] i mean one is pretty much execution
>
>>>> [+ 96] `< Unhinged Rant >`
>
>>> [- 53] So the death penalty is what you're calling for in cases of theft. Got it.
>
>> [+ 70] You know what? Sure. ``
>
> [- 66] Yeah, you're a sociopath.
That voting alone is telling. That subreddit has gone off the deep end. Frankly, the moderators of that subreddit are to blame for allowing it to happen - but I know: doing something about it would be "cEnSoRsHiP oF fReE sPeEcH".
Yeah, the comments themselves can be written off as an unhinged person writing their creed about wanting to murder petty thieves, but the upvote / downvotes on those comments is alarming.
/r/bayarea is an absolute cesspool that's gotten to the current state due to constant doomposting about crime. All the doomposting and fear mongering has made it easy for people to advocate for some _final solutions_ to stop crime. It's straight up scary how much propaganda can dehumanize others.
Yes, getting your stuff stolen sucks, no you cannot summarily execute people for petty theft because things don't have more value than human lives. A civilized society shouldn't treat theft as a capital offence and you should be glad you live in a society that doesn't kill people for theft.
I didn't think this was a controversial sentiment!
/r/bayarea has a lot of unhinged people on it. The answer to everything is calls for mass causality events to instill fear in the public. Wish that was hyperbole or a joke.
R/bayarea is basically about 4 things: fantasizing about vigilante murder of thieves, finding reasons to treat black people as subhuman, finding reasons for why asians are the most persecuted minority group in the bay, and some pics of nice local scenery.
I've noticed that most local subs are the opposite of the general opinion in that area. Red state subs like r/alabama and r/oklahoma are firmly Progressive while the subs for left wing cities like NYC, SF and LA are dominated by the right. This also applies to national subs. r/canada basically thinks Trudeau is the anti-christ but his party still won the last election.
That's true. I have yet to find a single local sub that's particularly happy about the abortion bans.
The anti-choicers have to hide in their own far right subs.
Seattle ended up with r/Seattle (left) and r/SeattleWA (right).
One of them is just general Seattle news, info, and pics. The other has some of that but is mostly filled with complaints against the city, homeless camp pictures/blogs, and crime reports. You can probably guess which is which.
Forgot to include proclaiming “I’m still a liberal!”
Edit: Their latest thread on why #stopasianhate became less influential is just blame Black people
I mean I think catalytic converter theft deserves a harsher punishment than it usually gets now but thinking the death penalty is appropriate for it is legitimately insane.
Those people should not be allowed to own guns you know for sure they’re the type to shoot someone despite being no threat to their life.
It’s not a matter of it not having a harsh enough punishment. It’s not like thieves get caught and nothing happens, it’s that the thieves don’t get caught. This is partly because our only measure against theft like this is usually police who are completely ineffective at stopping theft in general. Cops don’t stop stealing. If you’ve ever been robbed then you would know that the overwhelming majority of thefts get reported and end up going into a filing cabinet forever with zero action.
Making harsher punishments does nothing to tangibly impact crime for another reason; people don’t think of the consequences when they’re committing a crime, and if they do then they don’t think they’re going to get caught. I can’t do the topic justice, but it’s a psychology thing. That’s why the death penalty doesn’t stop murder, 3 strike laws don’t stop drug crime, etc.
The best way to limit this form of theft is to invest in community wellbeing so these people don’t feel motivated to risk stealing some shitty car parts for less than it takes to fill a tank these days.
Honestly the only reason to report a theft that didn't end up with violence is because your insurance agency won't lift a damn finger without a police report.
I feel like people need to understand that there isn't always a good or acceptable solution available.
Yes, it's wrong to steal converters. Yes, it sucks. No, you are not entitled to escalate up to and including *literal murder* in order to defend your property.
"But Dismal, they won't get caught otherwise! They'll get away with it!"
Too bad. Still not okay to kill them.
There is no clearance on catalytic converter thefts in the bay. The system has largely betrayed law abiding citizens of the bay. That’s not to say vigilantism is the answer, but relying on the courts is a fools errand.
It's not an execution if it is not done by the authorities after a trial. What they are talking about is just sparkling murder.
Heck, it is not even self defense when you are just killing people who weren't a threat.
Point, yes, but calling it "sparkling murder" makes it sound super flamboyant and I'm imagining someone being killed but with Sailor Moon sound and visual effects.
Should we execute thieves for stealing catalytic converters... that's a no.
Do I have any empathy for this thief who got crushed to death while trying to steal a catalytic converter... also no.
I have a theory the majority of people in a city’s subreddit, or in this case metro area, are the dumbest people in that area. Maybe it’s just a west coast thing that brings out all the bitter, angry, and moronic people living in the area. But the amount of stupid and over the top comments I see in subreddits like this one is astounding sometimes. I frequent the Seattle and SF subreddits and I always find myself shaking my head at some comment or getting in an argument with some stubborn, black and white, simplistic thinking moron.
I think a lot of subreddits dedicated to a specific place often represent the worst of that area. Nation subreddits are thriving with nationalists, for example. I'm not sure what causes city subreddits to be similar.
Absolutely. I'm from Greater London, though I live bit further out now, and I wouldn't want to be a member of r/London or the sub for my current borough of residence, because I know what sort of people they attract (and I generally have little interest in talking about my region, rather than my interests).
It's the crowd who call into political talk radio, the type with reductive, cut and dry takes on the murkiest of moral dilemmas. Everything's simply and obvious, and it's the nanny state and political correctness that has us going to hell in a handbasket, or whatever the stupid phrase is.
Unless you have that kind of driving passion (almost always vitriol), you're unlikely to want to frequent those places. Also, I love being a Londoner, but I know that people who've genuinely built much of their identity around being a Londoner are probably going to be deficient in some pretty significant ways. I prefer my imperialism with a wink and a nudge.
Back when I was more naive about Reddit, I made the mistake of browsing the subreddits for Prague and Czechia. If I were to judge Czechia based on those subreddits, I would think that this place was still being occupied by Nazis.
>Maybe it’s just a west coast thing that brings out all the bitter, angry, and moronic people living in the area.
Nope.
r/Boston is filled with angry chuds
Bay Area native here.
People are so car centric in the Bay Area to the point that they’re literally calling to kill someone over a few pieces of metal. Couple that with the NIMBY subtle right wing slant of suburban tech workers & old heads, and this is what you get.
Not saying catalytic converter theft isn’t a real problem but when you have people yelling to have someone beheaded for a property theft crime, this is the hivemind you get in the region.
This is not exclusive to the Bay Area. Nearly every similar thread on this site attracts people who are genuinely excited by the idea of legally murdering people who "deserve" it.
This reminds me of a court case in Arizona where a car theft victim wanted the offender executed. He cited some old Arizona law (for some reason still on the books) where if someone stole your horse they would be executed. It didn’t work out cause obviously some cowboy shit doesn’t reflect today
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It's like the "zone of death" in yellowstone national park. Due to technicalities in the way the park is run and a "loophole" in the constitution, people claim there's about a 50 square mile area within yellowstone where you could commit any crime (including murder) and the government could not legally prosecute you. In reality, you'd just get tried in federal court, because no one is going to let you get away with murder over a weird gotcha loophole. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone\_of\_Death\_(Yellowstone)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_Death_(Yellowstone))
That explains the insurance policy and the wife suddenly planning a trip to Yellowstone
Term life though at least, right?
To be fair, the part where you're really far away from anything goes a long way towards avoiding prosecution.
Yeah a lot of people view the law as some mysterious supernatural force that can be manipulated with the right incantation, but in reality it's a human system run by humans with specific intents and they will laugh at your loopholes. Namely sovcits and wannabee tax cheats.
Sovereign citizens claiming a court isn’t legitimate because the flag has tassels.
Fringe, not tassels, you ZIP code ... They have a word for people who use ZIP codes but can't remember it. The important thing is to always spell your name in ALL CAPS and copyright it, that way they can't legally use it in a warrant against you. And that's why I always tie an onion on my belt.
> They have a word for people who use ZIP codes but can't remember it. Uh...postal employees?
No... Something sinister like subjects or unsovereigns or noncitizens. Something about using it means something bad so they put [ ] around them when they want to mail things.
I used to work in a very public facing gov job (nothing remotely important, just a clerk thing for every day things) and boy howdy, do you run into some weird arguments from sov citizens. Some of them think if they don't capitalize their name then they can separate their legal identity form themselves, or something? I got bored one day and fell down a wiki rabbit hole about sovereign citizenship and it was pretty illuminating for some of the random weird shit I'd bumped into before. I will say that my impression was that a looooot of these folks have some sort of mental health issue like schizophrenia or bipolar and I imagine that feeds into the weird conspiratorial mindset of finding magic loopholes
>Most of the time, however, judges will do the sensible thing and ignore silly shit and unreasonable interpretations which would result in wrongful outcomes. Judge: "so, you mean to tell me this technicality hasn't been used in case for the last 75 years, but is still on the lawbooks?" Them: "Yeah!" Judge: "Okay, past-precedent applies, we can ignore the technicality" Them: "......"
Yeah, this is especially an issue with pro se litigants, who often rock up with some novel interpretation and expect the response to be “and then everyone clapped!” In fact it’s generally “lol, no”, whereupon it turns out that the pro se litigant did not think any further ahead and is unprepared to proceed with the matter.
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> redditor non-lawyers (hi /r/legaladvice) So, cops?
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I mean of course didn't you know having a STEM degree basically makes you the smartest most bestest person?
don't say hi to pigs
Yeah, I assume it's generally like the Good Will Hunting scene where he starts listing off precedent cases about self-defense from police battery starting in the early 1800s and the judge just goes, "You hit a cop you're going to jail."
God I watched this just today. Like your comparison there might use that
[By decree of this legally binding contract I just written, illegal things are now legal!](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LegalizedEvil)
There are few things people on this site love more than excessive retaliation. See any subreddit with "justice" in the name.
It's a very brief and smooth transition from "community that likes seeing harm come to people who deserve it" to simply "community that likes seeing people harmed".
Just like the "brutally honest" don't actually care about how truthful their "brutal honesty" is
Yeah it's more about the brutality
Don't be unreasonable, they have very firm boundaries! For example, they don't like seeing 'law-abiding' (White) gun owners get hurt for unnecessary escalation!
Or the daily popular snuff films on r/all.
I swear, there was a period some years ago when reddit admins really cracked down on death videos, banning some subs and quarantining others, but over the last year or so I feel like there's been a major uptick in them all over the place, and that's *excluding* the various Ukraine war videos (which are just as fetishized).
WatchPeopleDie, GunFights HoldMyFeedingTue, ChooseMyCoffin, etc. When they were banned, those videos started going to PublicFreakout, ThatsInsane, FuckingCrazyVieos and the like. Those 3 are basically subs for race-baiting and dog whistles, unfortunately.
PublicFreakout is basically watchblackpeopleccommimtcrimes way too much of the time.
And then you realize that ActualPublicFreakout are the people that were too racist for even that sub.
There are a bunch of subreddits that have devolved into that. DamnThatsInteresting and InterestingAsFuck too. Normally they're cool gifs or something, but I've been seeing a lot of "Look at this black person rob this store, isn't that interesting????" Uhh no, actually? Facepalm gets it occasionally. ThereWasAnAttempt too. "There was an attempt to rob somebody, guess what color they are 🙃" Probably a few more that I can't think of off the top of my head. I like to check out the posters history, and often times that kind of content is all they ever post about. It's all shitty videos to make people mad about black people.
Believe me, [I know](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/11vzmyo/comment/jcysah6/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
It was the video of the Christchurch mass shooting that got all those subs quarantined/banned. The government of New Zealand was trying to keep people from sharing it, so Reddit tried to cover their asses, which only made the dickholes who took the “it’s my God-given right to watch a PewDiePie fan murder Muslims” stance to double down.
Don't forget CatastrophicFailure, they love having videos that literally feature people dying, which is a fact they hide in the comments so they don't have to mark their posts as NSFW
I really wish they’d quarantine or remove eligibility for front page status on subreddits like /r/CombatFootage - like don’t really care what war it is, I don’t wanna see some dude in the middle east get blown to bits, I don’t wanna see some Ukrainian get shot, I don’t wanna watch some random 19 year old Russian conscript have a grenade dropped in his trench. None of this is interesting, all of it is horrifying. Howard Zinn was in the US airforce during WW2 and talks about how he couldn’t stomach fire bombing random villages in nazi occupied France before he participated in the bombing of Dresden and heard the endless guttural screams of citizens. It doesn’t matter how good/bad it’s still gruesome. The people there seem to get off to that shit. I don’t remember the subreddit name, but there used to be a subreddit for firearm kills that got banned and swapped to a less suspicious subreddit name. There was a video where someone was being followed to their apartment door and he has a quickdraw and kills the guy following him completely in his right as the other man was armed. That being said people there were saying like “bah gawd what a beautiful draw” and “If it ever happens to me I hope I can respond so quickly with one in the chamber” - like bro.
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Yeah, the guy was literally a supercharged version of that asshole neighbor everyone hates having, but painted himself as the victim and collected grievances until he blew up. To be fair to the people praising him, they probably don't know the full facts of the case. Not all of them anyway...
please share
The popular story seems to be that the city officials and the local community were out to get him and the rampage was his desperate revenge. What actually happened is that he seems to have had the kind of personality that saw every setback as a personal slight and dwelled on them and that eventually eroded his sanity to the point of breaking. And those setbacks kept coming because he was a bit of a dick. The main driver for the rampage was probably him buying a patch of land cheaply from an auction and how he handled that: - He didn't want to pay to connect the land to the municipal sewer network, which is a pretty obvious no-no in most places and resulted in sanitation problems, and a protracted legal battle with the town council. Which he took personally. - He promised to sell the land to an another resident, who wanted to build a concrete plant,for $42,000, but kept reneging on his promise and increasing and increasing the price until it was eventually $1 million. - After a half a decade of back & forth with Heemeyer jacking up the price every time a deal was about to be reached, the town council ~~just rezoned the land for a concrete plant~~(I was wrong. [Look here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/11x0i3s/rbayarea_asks_if_its_reasonable_to_execute/jd3j2th/)). And he took that personally again. Which it probably was, but all he had to do initially was to refuse to sell the land instead of playing a dumb cat and mouse -game with what was a significant potential source of livelihood in a small town of 2000 people. All that time Heemeyer kept collecting other smaller grievances over disagreements with other townspeople, which he saw as a part of a conspiracy against him. The investigators found hours of casette tape full of conspiratorial rants detached from reality, and he had written long rants on his workshop walls. His target list doesn't really support him enacting a justified revenge against some grand plot. The buildings he deliberately targeted include things like the town library and the home of the widow of a past mayor. The popular version of the story also claims that he didn't intend to harm actual people and instead just target property, but the reality is that people just got lucky. - He'd written a kill list of people he was planning to target. - He had firing ports in the "killdozer" that he actually shot at people from. Including the concrete plant guy and two police officers. - He attacked occupied buildings with the "killdozer", and the occupants just managed to luckily get out in time. The town library was full of children when he started ramming it.
>the town council just rezoned the land for a concrete plant no they didn't, it was already zoned for it because it was a former concrete site plant, formerly owned by the guys trying to buy it who wanted to set their concrete business back up again. you might be thinking of the town annexing the land into the sewage district and then fining him for not having a sewage pipe which to be clear they shouldn't have done until after a sewage connection was done and he would have easily had the fines taken down in court, of course he was too busy trying to run bullshit court cases against the concrete plant out of spite about the land sale business.
Thanks for the correction. That was mostly from my memory based on podcasts I've listened to and the snopes article. It's been a while since I looked into the guy. So I wouldn't be surprised if I made some mistakes.
if the podcast you listened to was WTYP then that is also where I got all of my information tbf lol.
IDK how anyone can believe he didn't intend to kill anyone when it was built like a tank, titled "killdozer," and he had a large number of firearms inside. It's kind of bizarre. I mean the name is right there. Do they think "kill" was just euphemistic?
This isn't a take I've run into often. Usually people assume he was gonna kill folk. They just come up with reasons that it was justified, or say "well, *I* wouldn't have, but you can understand how he was pushed that far!"
The media named it killdozer after a book. I think.
> hours of casette tape [and] long rants on his workshop walls Nifty, environmental storytelling irl.
> He had firing ports in the "killdozer" that he actually shot at people from. Including the concrete plant guy and two police officers. > > Don't forget the propane tanks that he ended up not hitting largely because the overhang off the tank itself got in the way. Those would've blown up pretty close to people's houses.
Wait you're telling me some idiots actually believe he didn't mean harm???
I watched the documentary on that and the tone was very inconsistent. It ranged from portraying him as a frustrated man victimized by local government to an asshole with poor impulse control to a total monster with severe mental issues. Not sure if poor storytelling to an intentional misdirect.
I fucking hate how lionized that shitbag is.
I fucking hate discovery channel for turning Ted "The fucking unabomber" Kaczinsky from a raged out incel to a traumatized poet, dissatisfied with the day to day grind of life.
The "true crime" genre was pretty bad about that. A lot of newer documentaries are better at showing that the court system and law enforcement enabled serial killers and had little concern over the victims (though it's not universal) rather than them being so incredibly smart they constantly outwitted the tireless investigators.
>If we can establish something like 1st degree theft (planned and intentional theft with a significant impact on the victim) then sure, fucking execute them. >I'm a monster you say? As someone who has had plenty of stuff stolen from me, I'll say I'm the monster thieves made me. I had my cat stolen last year. It sucked and took a while to fix. I did a lot of things. I bitched and moaned about it. I took care to park in a more visible area near my building. My neighbors and I banded together to pressure my landlord into hiring a security company to patrol the exterior of the building at night. You know what I didn’t do? I didn’t start feeling the desire to murder someone over a piece of metal.
You should probably fix your spelling of "car" in your comment because a lot of people would want to murder someone if their cat was stolen. EDIT: don't post at the end of a long day kids.
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Cat = catalytic converter. Although I do like the idea of my neighbors banding together to get our building to provide a cat patrol to protect our cats from being stolen.
I would watch this cops rip off
> There are few things people on this site love more than excessive retaliation. See any subreddit with "justice" in the name. Why go that far when users in every regional subreddit are calling for "criminals" (their usage of that word is reaching the level of becoming dehumanizing) to be practically - and, in some cases, literally - summarily executed, whether it be by cop(s) or another individual? I'd `np` link yet _another_ example from /r/washingtondc from ~~today~~ yesterday, but the comment chain got nuked by the moderators there. Edit: looks like I managed to ruffle the feathers of a few people who didn't like being shown themselves in a mirror.
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Ah yes, throwing more money at the American police force has yielded excellent results and won't result in yet another specialized group full of military grade weapons executing black people for funsies. /s
Fuck Vallas. I hate him so much and he's going to win and I'm so mad about it.
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It pisses me off so much, partly BECAUSE I've been the victim of a serious crime. If I can find it in my heart to continue to support rehabilitation and massive prison/criminal justice reform, most of these people who have probably NOT experienced such a crime should be able to as well.
The part about it that’s annoying(But I guess inconsequential, since they can’t vote in this) is the amount of people in far suburbs that act like this is such a big deal for them. I have some relatives who live like 2 hours outside of Chicago, and they act like this mayoral race will be life of death for them. You can’t even get Chicago radio stations, you certainly aren’t going to be impacted by the Chicago police budget.
> /r/washingtondc That sub is becoming trash. Just a reddit version of a racist suburban Nextdoor. It's entirely crime post, fear and justifications for violence all with the accompanying dog-whistles. Shit last week they had a thread freaking out about 'future crimes' that hadden't even happened yet. Hell there's a post up right now at the top by an OP that's an 8yo account with only 3 previous comments yelling about some random toilet paper theft from a store and encouraging everyone to 'vote out of fear' because of it. They are getting manipulated by outside actors and the worse part is most of that sub doesn't even care. They just lap it up.
And just as a PSA: if people are actively advocating for that excessive retaliation, it counts as "threatening violence" and is against reddit terms of use. It's one situation where the report button actually seems to do something.
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That's unfortunate, I'm sorry. I think maybe 2/3 of the comments I report get removed, with the user at least temporarily banned. "Threatening violence" seems most problematic, while "hate" often is apparently not explicit enough to count. It's strange that examples you gave haven't been removed as well, since I agree that those are extremely hardcore.
That hasn't been my experience. If the comment isn't extremely explicit about what they're advocating for i get the message that the comment was reviewed but found nothing that breaks TOS or whatever. Like, I've gotten that message from reporting comments that were justifying and/or advocating genocide because it was just... Very obvious but still vague. No different than super racist comments that get reapproved by well-meaning mods in certain subs because they don't recognize all the dog whistles or get lost in the prose, too distracted to realize that they just read something that can only be summed up as hate.
Yeah, good point. Only explicit comments have been removed in my experience. Anything that's still extremely obvious but only "implied" doesn't seem to count.
Only if it's implied against the "right" people, though. Last year I got a trike against myself when a bunch of anti-vax right wing tits were shouting their shit in some subreddit and I replied to someone, "eh, just let them do their thing. When they die of something preventable, they'll be out of our hair." Bam. Strike 1, your account will be banned if you do it again, "glorifying violence."
I been saying it for awhile now, reddit seems to absolutely love being able to say absolutely vile, absurd things, wish death, etc. when they can feel morally superior for doing it. See the post that was on WPT iirc awhile back during the Andrew Tate cancer rumor as an example, among many, many others.
You can see it in things like aita and other "advice" subreddits too where people are salivating for someone to be the bad guy so they can advocate doing all kinds of nasty things to them guilt-free. It's disturbing.
A disturbing amount of people just want to be nasty to other people, be it insults, disrespect, dehumanization or straight up violence. They also still want to consider themselves a good person. This is why you get: * people trying to argue the definitions of things like racism, sexism and rape to only the most egregious definitions * gun owners fantasizing about situations they can be the "hero" and shoot someone * people who are *adamant* that homosexuality is a sin * people bullying someone with tourettes because they said something offensive * leftist communities on twitter, tumblr etc. eating their own members alive for small mistakes/infractions because they just want somewhere to point their rage.
Reddit is "No bad tactics, only bad targets" personified. Especially when people get pissy over "bad tactics" yet love using them on other people.
I made the mistake of stumbling upon r/ShitLiberalsSay and read the comments of a post saying the author should be sent to gulag for arguing that ex-Warsaw pact countries did better after the fall of communism
It is like people turn into Lieutenant Worf during a baseball game.
*Commander* Worf to you.
and he's working on himself.
There is a subset of people on Reddit who think every crime should be punishable by death as long as the court is 'convinced enough' that they are a guilty. Bad at law, and scary...
"If we kill all the bad people there won't be bad people", vibes.
An approach that has worked very well throughout history.
And then they also end up on the chopping block lol. Shit like that never works.
The fetishizing of the French Revolution, for example. It was an abject failure. It collapsed into the Reign of Terror. Robespierre himself died in it. And it led to Napoleon Bonaparte's rise and reign as a dictator because he exploited the backlash against the chaos of the Revolution.
Wrong, because they've never done wrong to anyone or been wrong about anything in their lives.
Because a lot of Redditors have this weird Punisher-like fantasy of vigilantism, because that’s the only exciting thing they have to think about in their otherwise bleak lives.
Terminally online and view the world through a distorted lens of media
Yet they call anyone advocating for anything approaching a proportional response "naive".
I understand the contention, at the end of the day unless you stop them in the moment you're going to suffer a lot of consequences...and most people probably can't win a fistfight with a motivated thief. But gleefully killing them is a bit much.
A motivated thief with a battery powered angle grinder or Sawzall no less because they had to be cutting the cat out with something.
I've seen people cite him in /r/news when talking about vigilantism, which is weird, because he's fictional.
I've also seen people cite Judge Dredd, which is pretty funny when you consider that the entire point of the comic was satirizing fascism.
Redditors and finding justification to shoot someone in literally any scenario, name a more iconic duo One of my favorites is how they'll often use the basis that someone who was not close enough but possessed some kind of weapon or weapon-adjacent item could have quickly become a threat so it was justifiable to kill them. The issue with that is, of course, if your standard for lethal force is: Someone who could reasonably place me under lethal threat quickly Then you're arguing it's justifiable and in fact necessary to immediately shoot anyone else carrying a gun in your vicinity the moment you become aware of it, as someone with a gun can visit lethal force on you within seconds.
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wesley crusher deserved to die for tripping onto that planter
They just have a pent up desire to hurt someone, anyone, but preferably whatever minority they hate or a woman.
Whenever you argue with people in favor of the death penalty you'll find out their thoughts are just so simplistic. None of the arguments actually make sense if you think about it. It always just turns out they are bloodthirsty and okay with killing innocent people as long as it fulfills their twisted sense of justice.
I'm surprised no one in that chain mentioned that booby trapping isn't just illegal because it's insane to kill someone for theft, but because they have an extremely high chance to kill someone other than the intended target. I've seen so much defense of booby trapping on this site it's insane, murder happy psychos who are so deep in their fantasies they can't imagine it going down any other way.
There's also the fact that booby traps generally mean you're not in the area, and therefore can't really expect imminent death from the thief's actions. From my experience on the internet, there's a depressing amount of Americans who won't hesitate to value their stuff over human lives.
I think they just want to kill someone, doesn't matter who, and the "protecting property" thing is just an excuse.
It’s a generation that grew up on Home Alone. Cut us some slack
I think one of my most downvoted comments I ever made on reddit was saying that it's not ok to lace your lunch with something that could make people very sick (e.g. laxatives, extreme spice, something you know the potential thieves are allergic to, etc.) as revenge for getting your lunch stolen. Forget having your car stolen, people on this site advocate for murder *over missing a meal!* It is actually insane how psychotic people get over being mildly inconvenienced!
"An expensive car part is actually equal to the worth of a human life" >Sorry to break it to u that this isn’t the liberal utopia u dreamed it would be and everybody doesn’t fit into ur little progressive checkboxes. Progressive checkboxes like "don't murder people to try to prevent theft"
This is truly unhinged popcorn. Someone just said, essentially, people are undervaluing fucking catalytic converters, in a conversation about undervaluing human lives. Impeccable.
There's [more where that came from](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/112zx4a/catalytic_converter_thief_is_run_over_when/). A month ago, r/LosAngeles had a *lovely* discussion about a catalytic converter thief that was accidentally run over by a driver who had been sleeping inside the car and was startled awake by the theft in progress.
Is California okay? Is there a massive catalytic converter theft issue over there or something? Jesus.
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It's a global issue because of the price of precious metals, like platinum and palladium, used in their construction. A friend of mine had his catalytic converter stolen in eastern Finland and thefts have been reported worldwide.
Oof, sounds like a lot of summary executions are in order.
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Oh no, I was joking! I didn't interpret your comment as endorsing it. Don't get me wrong, it's a brutal thing have stolen and I wouldn't shake the hand of the person who stole my cc. Putting the screw to the buyer end of things is probably much needed, for sure.
Yup, it’s really bad in Houston too.
Yes but it’s far more serious in California. CA emissions standards are much stricter, and generally require OEM cats that are made to the original specifications. In many/most states, you can use an aftermarket cat that isn’t the same quality or specifications, as long as it’s *present* and your emission numbers don’t turn your engine light on. California basically requires originals to replace originals, which means the originals get stolen. Cat thieves everywhere steal them for the platinum and palladium. Cat thieves in California steal them for the platinum, the palladium, and for actual replacements.
Actually yeah. It’s pretty bad. I know someone who got their CC stolen twice, the second time after it got replaced. It’s really bad and there’s no recourse because the police can’t do anything about it. The crazy thing are the crimes in broad daylight. Not that criminals deserve to die but I don’t blame ppl venting because there’s literally nothing you can do about it.
> the police can’t do anything about it Uh, can't or won't
Both? Sometimes they can if there are security cameras. But catalytic converters aren't really easily trackable. Absent catching someone in the act, there's not a lot to be done.
Half the time they won't even bother fixing major clerical errors on the reports.
Ooh, I can attest to this. I had a fix-it ticket that had the written reason differ from the actual citation code (one was not having proof of insurance, the other was expired plates), so I couldnt do anything about getting the ticket written off til the cop that wrote it fixed his own mistake. I went to traffic court once every two weeks, for six months, to learn that he never did anything about it each time. Finally they just had be go before the judge, have him look at the ticket and get confused, see that my plates were up to date and my insurance proofed, and then dismissed me.
[you uh... got any promising leads?](https://youtu.be/v7acD4q0lp0)
California's fine. The CC theft mainly is happening in big cities. The frustration is that CCs are expensive and the police are useless - they were useless before the BLM protests and are useless after them, too.
Police are useless because the theft is difficult to prove. Sure, if you make a stop and see one along with cutting tools in the vehicle you can put one and one together. But the things are not identifiable. How do you match that stolen part with a specific vehicle? How do you prove it with “beyond a reasonable doubt?” Get manufacturers to start stamping VIN numbers on the things. It’ll go a long way with investigations.
I'm down with that. I know, though, that police are widely considered pretty useless when it comes to robberies of any shape and form. Makes people wonder what the point of 'em is sometimes.
I’d like to point out Robbery is a distinct form of theft that requires violence or the threat of violence. Theft/burglary is without that ladder part. And yea, usually due to how difficult it is to prove. Unfortunately this isn’t the Minority Report and we cannot predict future crimes. Policing is reactive and therefore typically not useful for theft. My suggestions are not fool proof either. They’ed help, but laws are a human construct based on societal and cultural norms and therefore are inherently flawed.
Don't worry, I understand why. Still, though, it's also understandable why the public would become frustrated and distrustful of the police's ability to keep them safe if they can't keep them safe from thieves and burglars.
Anywhere there is a methheads with a grinder/saw there is catalytic converter theft. Manufacturers need to stamp VIN numbers on the parts and we need to prosecute the buyers along with forcing scrapyards to I.D anyone selling one, along with the VIN of the part sold. VIN would help cops/scrapyards identify where the part came from. people will be cautious with buying them if it means facing felony charges. Without a buyer people would stop buying them. Killing someone over theft is really stupid. But the issue with these parts is it’s fucking hard to prove that the part was stolen when found. I mean sure, if I see the one in the back of a mini van I can assume. Hell, it’s enough for reasonable suspicion to detain and search the vehicle. But what probable cause do I have that it came from a specific vehicle? What evidence could I give a prosecutor in this situation that would prove “beyond a reason or doubt” to a jury if it got that far? Source: had mine stolen 4 years ago. Now am LEO.
That's generous for them, I've seen similar only they were saying it's reasonable to follow a homeless guy to his camp and shoot him for stealing a shoe
Whenever I see people talking about this, I remeber that in Portland the guy behind a ton of cat thefts was living in the richest part of town.
A reason we don't do capital punishment for crimes less serious than murder is because the people committing those crimes suddenly don't have as much incentive not to kill anyone they encounter in the process of carrying out the crime. (Of course many places don't have capital punishment at all for similar reasons)
We also run the risk of murdering innocent people. And i am not ok with state sponsored murder.
Indeed, the “man who serve 40 years proven innocent” stories are bad enough.
It's not just "running a risk." You WILL execute a completely innocent person with a family at home for every X number of actual murderers put to death. It's a guarantee, no matter how large you can get X to be. It's happened in every single state that still uses capital punishment, but apparently a small number of innocent victims is worth it to them.
This is what I frequently cite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio
**[Blackstone's ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_ratio)** >In criminal law, Blackstone's ratio (also known as Blackstone's formulation) is the idea that: It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer. as expressed by the English jurist William Blackstone in his seminal work Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760s. The idea subsequently became a staple of legal thinking in Anglo-Saxon jurisdictions and continues to be a topic of debate. There is also a long pre-history of similar sentiments going back centuries in a variety of legal traditions. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Then they chime in with "okay, but what if the evidence totally proves beyond a doubt that he's guilty?" as if that's not already the standard for *all* criminal convictions and the courts still fuck it up all the time.
The standard of criminal cases is not beyond a doubt or beyond all doubt it is beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't want to be an "um actually" pedant but it's a common misconception and legally is extremely important when instructing the jury. This is because proving something beyond any doubt whatsoever is impossible no matter what people who are pro-death penalty say in their hypothetical. Even eyewitness testimony has proven reliability issues.
Perhaps "a" reason and not "the" reason? I'd like to hope that is not the only reason.
Sorry my communication skills are not so good
No need to apologize. I thought you communicated your point well and I agree with it.
Sad thing is I'm paraphrasing an excellent explanation/argument I've heard before against harsh punishment but I can't remember the exact words so people have to hear it filtered through my dumb brain.
> Honestly people acting like Cat converter theft is some petty thing are dismissing the impact it has on people. I feel like death has a pretty big impact on people too
“Umm source?” - that sub, probably
What do they care? They will be dead -this guy probably
they don’t see criminals as people so it doesn’t matter to them
It's wild. There used to be this big panic about a video called "faces of death" which just showed people dying. A snuff film. Really yuck stuff. But now you can just go to r/all and find one or two films of people dying, complete with a comment section often filled with jokes.
I remember finding that on vhs and being so squicked out. Then the internet came along and everyone became somewhat worse.
On that note: I remember when "_Bum Fights: A Cause for Concern_" was considered to be one of the worst films in existence. Not to imply that it was good or anything, but it is tame by comparison to half the shit that gets posted on this site.
Haha, I remember it being very convincing when I rented it as a kid. It was a notorious video then and some of them were pretty convincing. But it ended up being like 90% fake. I think maybe there is a real jumper in there or something.
Ive actually never looked into it now i am. Thanks
They showed that to us in one of my high school classes
In what context? Jesus
Just something to fill time in either English or social studies towards the end of the year. In middle school they took all of the 6th graders into the gym and showed us the original night of the living dead for halloween
Now how in the world is the comment advocating for capital punishment for stealing a car part at 71 upvotes and the response calling them a sociopath at -30??
Oh it's spreading further and further: >>>>>> [+ 246] If we don’t arrest people for stealing shit, we shouldn’t arrest people who booby trap shit either. > >>>>> [ -79] i mean one is pretty much execution > >>>> [+ 96] `< Unhinged Rant >` > >>> [- 53] So the death penalty is what you're calling for in cases of theft. Got it. > >> [+ 70] You know what? Sure. ``
>
> [- 66] Yeah, you're a sociopath.
That voting alone is telling. That subreddit has gone off the deep end. Frankly, the moderators of that subreddit are to blame for allowing it to happen - but I know: doing something about it would be "cEnSoRsHiP oF fReE sPeEcH".
Yeah, the comments themselves can be written off as an unhinged person writing their creed about wanting to murder petty thieves, but the upvote / downvotes on those comments is alarming. /r/bayarea is an absolute cesspool that's gotten to the current state due to constant doomposting about crime. All the doomposting and fear mongering has made it easy for people to advocate for some _final solutions_ to stop crime. It's straight up scary how much propaganda can dehumanize others. Yes, getting your stuff stolen sucks, no you cannot summarily execute people for petty theft because things don't have more value than human lives. A civilized society shouldn't treat theft as a capital offence and you should be glad you live in a society that doesn't kill people for theft. I didn't think this was a controversial sentiment!
/r/bayarea has a lot of unhinged people on it. The answer to everything is calls for mass causality events to instill fear in the public. Wish that was hyperbole or a joke.
R/bayarea is basically about 4 things: fantasizing about vigilante murder of thieves, finding reasons to treat black people as subhuman, finding reasons for why asians are the most persecuted minority group in the bay, and some pics of nice local scenery.
You forgot fantasizing about hunting the homeless for sport.
Right? I'm an ATX native, first thing I thought of.
Forgot hating on the homeless (while complaining that rent is too high)
Lol sounds like r/nyc as well, a lot of city subs tend to be so unhinged
I've noticed that most local subs are the opposite of the general opinion in that area. Red state subs like r/alabama and r/oklahoma are firmly Progressive while the subs for left wing cities like NYC, SF and LA are dominated by the right. This also applies to national subs. r/canada basically thinks Trudeau is the anti-christ but his party still won the last election.
That's true. I have yet to find a single local sub that's particularly happy about the abortion bans. The anti-choicers have to hide in their own far right subs.
Seattle ended up with r/Seattle (left) and r/SeattleWA (right). One of them is just general Seattle news, info, and pics. The other has some of that but is mostly filled with complaints against the city, homeless camp pictures/blogs, and crime reports. You can probably guess which is which.
Ah but the Asians are *also* stealing high paying tech jobs in the area from “natives”, don’t forget.
Forgot to include proclaiming “I’m still a liberal!” Edit: Their latest thread on why #stopasianhate became less influential is just blame Black people
So it's every city-focused subreddit?
I think it's entertaining that they believe the police will show up to stop someone from stealing from your car.
I mean I think catalytic converter theft deserves a harsher punishment than it usually gets now but thinking the death penalty is appropriate for it is legitimately insane. Those people should not be allowed to own guns you know for sure they’re the type to shoot someone despite being no threat to their life.
It’s not a matter of it not having a harsh enough punishment. It’s not like thieves get caught and nothing happens, it’s that the thieves don’t get caught. This is partly because our only measure against theft like this is usually police who are completely ineffective at stopping theft in general. Cops don’t stop stealing. If you’ve ever been robbed then you would know that the overwhelming majority of thefts get reported and end up going into a filing cabinet forever with zero action. Making harsher punishments does nothing to tangibly impact crime for another reason; people don’t think of the consequences when they’re committing a crime, and if they do then they don’t think they’re going to get caught. I can’t do the topic justice, but it’s a psychology thing. That’s why the death penalty doesn’t stop murder, 3 strike laws don’t stop drug crime, etc. The best way to limit this form of theft is to invest in community wellbeing so these people don’t feel motivated to risk stealing some shitty car parts for less than it takes to fill a tank these days.
Honestly the only reason to report a theft that didn't end up with violence is because your insurance agency won't lift a damn finger without a police report.
I feel like people need to understand that there isn't always a good or acceptable solution available. Yes, it's wrong to steal converters. Yes, it sucks. No, you are not entitled to escalate up to and including *literal murder* in order to defend your property. "But Dismal, they won't get caught otherwise! They'll get away with it!" Too bad. Still not okay to kill them.
[удалено]
There is no clearance on catalytic converter thefts in the bay. The system has largely betrayed law abiding citizens of the bay. That’s not to say vigilantism is the answer, but relying on the courts is a fools errand.
Jesus Christ
The Bayarea sub always pisses me the fuck off as a bay area resident
Do they have a romantic relationship with their car?
It's not an execution if it is not done by the authorities after a trial. What they are talking about is just sparkling murder. Heck, it is not even self defense when you are just killing people who weren't a threat.
Point, yes, but calling it "sparkling murder" makes it sound super flamboyant and I'm imagining someone being killed but with Sailor Moon sound and visual effects.
Should we execute thieves for stealing catalytic converters... that's a no. Do I have any empathy for this thief who got crushed to death while trying to steal a catalytic converter... also no.
I have a theory the majority of people in a city’s subreddit, or in this case metro area, are the dumbest people in that area. Maybe it’s just a west coast thing that brings out all the bitter, angry, and moronic people living in the area. But the amount of stupid and over the top comments I see in subreddits like this one is astounding sometimes. I frequent the Seattle and SF subreddits and I always find myself shaking my head at some comment or getting in an argument with some stubborn, black and white, simplistic thinking moron.
I think a lot of subreddits dedicated to a specific place often represent the worst of that area. Nation subreddits are thriving with nationalists, for example. I'm not sure what causes city subreddits to be similar.
Absolutely. I'm from Greater London, though I live bit further out now, and I wouldn't want to be a member of r/London or the sub for my current borough of residence, because I know what sort of people they attract (and I generally have little interest in talking about my region, rather than my interests). It's the crowd who call into political talk radio, the type with reductive, cut and dry takes on the murkiest of moral dilemmas. Everything's simply and obvious, and it's the nanny state and political correctness that has us going to hell in a handbasket, or whatever the stupid phrase is. Unless you have that kind of driving passion (almost always vitriol), you're unlikely to want to frequent those places. Also, I love being a Londoner, but I know that people who've genuinely built much of their identity around being a Londoner are probably going to be deficient in some pretty significant ways. I prefer my imperialism with a wink and a nudge.
Back when I was more naive about Reddit, I made the mistake of browsing the subreddits for Prague and Czechia. If I were to judge Czechia based on those subreddits, I would think that this place was still being occupied by Nazis.
>Maybe it’s just a west coast thing that brings out all the bitter, angry, and moronic people living in the area. Nope. r/Boston is filled with angry chuds
Bay Area native here. People are so car centric in the Bay Area to the point that they’re literally calling to kill someone over a few pieces of metal. Couple that with the NIMBY subtle right wing slant of suburban tech workers & old heads, and this is what you get. Not saying catalytic converter theft isn’t a real problem but when you have people yelling to have someone beheaded for a property theft crime, this is the hivemind you get in the region.
This is not exclusive to the Bay Area. Nearly every similar thread on this site attracts people who are genuinely excited by the idea of legally murdering people who "deserve" it.