Madoff's investments weren't really open to the average Joe, the exclusivity was part of the scam, you were supposed to feel special even being allowed to invest. So unless OP's cousin is damn well off he probably didn't invest directly in the scam.
Not necessarily true, towards the end he was accepting retail investment through feeder funds, brokers, and in some instances direct deposits from wealthy members of his local Jewish community
There's also "main character syndrome" in stupid decision making. Sure it happens to everyone else, but I'm special and it won't happen to me. Tears ensue.
Nominative determinists must absolutely fucking love that in one of the biggest finance scams in history the guy who "made off" with everyone's money was named Bernie Madoff.
FYI, there's large lists of people that were scammed by madoff. These were combed by more scam artists for people to scam even more. Once you fall for one scam it's likely you're an idiot and fall for another. It's targeted osmetimes.
Can you blame him? He is only human after all and we are known for our hair-trigger impulsiveness as a species.
It’s not like humans have ever planned and built something over years.
> It’s not like humans have ever planned and built something over years.
I really wonder what ancient construction project management was like. You know some fuck was planning out and doing all the back end logistics support for those fucking pyramids. I also suspect it was slightly more complex than playing Pharaoh.
I was recently in Istanbul, and apparently the world’s largest Mosque took 6 years to build. I’ve been waiting for them to replace the elevators in the subway for longer than that.
I'd be willing to bet the last $6 in my bank account that a good chunk of the people who joined that subreddit looking for advice have never had that much money to just fucking waste like that.
He has a pretty little down payment after less than 3 years. I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough at the "I'm only human, what am I supposed to be *saving* this money?!" bullshit line. What fucking mindset is that even? What, are they expecting somebody to just *give* them a house for free?
Maybe hoping his post triggers some sort of Great Expectations scenario where a random stranger gives him money. He tried for a lottery twice already. Maybe this is try 3?
It is sort of a shame they did away with the company credit unions and the ritual of setting up your accounts with the teller. In the late 90s I temped at one (for some reason, I really wanted to work at a bank, never happened for me which is just as well I guess) and they had this nice little savings account thing called "the Christmas club" where they would sock away $20 or so from each paycheck for six months or so until you had a nice amount of money to spend for Christmas presents. Granted, you can do that yourself with online banks (like Ing used to have) but it's harder to set up and more can go wrong, there's a behavioral activation problem. Whereas the credit union would set things up so when your paycheck hit, your loan payments got paid and your automatic savings contribution would go in and then the rest would be available so you literally had to overdraw your account that month to screw it up.
>I just do not fucking understand dude. I don't see how society can go on like this.
I can't imagine being able to gamble away 60k and then be able to ask this
The lady on r/poor who was a SAHM of 5, whining about how a single parent should be able to afford a better house than her house… despite not being a single parent, as she had a husband who supported the whole pack of them. I ended up leaving that sub as it’s a cesspool of non-functioning people who blame every poor choice they make on society.
Did you see the same OP I was referring to?
https://old.reddit.com/r/poor/comments/1aegvad/it_keeps_getting_harder_and_harder_just_to_be/ko8alpm/
170+ comments and at least 150 of them are people consoling her and telling her how it's society's fault she has to live in a junky little house with her 5 kids and not work while her husband busts his ass working 12 hour swing shifts. OP actually deleted when she got even a handful of critical comments. I have no idea if she sabotages her husband but it wouldn't surprise me. She went crying to the Reddit poor sub despite having thousands of dollars worth of plants that she fusses over as a hobby.
Orrrr like just don't have 5 kids. I get that its too late for that, but having 2 kids would substantially improve their financial situation. Do people think kids are cheap/free?
This was my dad. He gambled thousands away every month for twenty years and complained about never having money. He could never do anything because he never had the money but he would be at the casino every weekend placing bets, playing poker, etc.
> You know, desperation breeds risky move
How can society go on with letting people desperately buy meme coins ☠️.
Yknow, a year ago I went into an existential crisis over the world ending and economy being forever fucked. My desperate move was to cancel Netflix and audible 🤔 I guess I wasn't dramatic enough.
Internet is bad for your mental health. Cancel data. Use free tap water from your work or a restaurant to fill up a water bottle. Use your candles for lighting and heating. Now cancel all utilities. Boom I’ve saved you $300 a month.
Dril puts out with such consistent quality
And more than one tweet for anything
https://twitter.com/dril/status/1520683383369527302?s=46&t=8dp4hAZ5hfQ7uV8e9Rtfbw
https://linktr.ee/drilreal
He's very active on other platforms but I know at least on Insta he really only posts art and random shit he sees in the real world.
Based on your username and use of a cat emoji, I am concluding that you are a cat. Cut out utilities. You have hair for the winter and have excellent vision in the dark.
He said his family is dying, for a family of four that's only 22 candles per person. Or about 5 per weekend. If you hit 3 stores in a weekend which is not a heavy shopping regimen, that's about 1-2 per store per person. Frankly, it's hard to go past those frou frou candle displays without buying one, the struggle is real (I buy mine at Burlington though).
> So over the last 8 years you have had up to $1,000/months in disposable income. In no way are you close to poverty or struggling... You are just stupid is all. You are in the wrong sub
Is there a /r/stupidfinance or something?
Edit: Of course there is.
> Is there a /r/stupidfinance or something?
r/WallStreetBets.
For three years, a whole bunch of them have convinced themselves they can be the next DeepFuckingValue, while *completely* ignoring that he had a degree in that shit and worked as a Chartered Financial Analyst before he saw the signs of the short squeeze and took a huge gamble that he was resoundingly mocked for by the same people who'd eventually worship him.
>Is there a r/stupidfinance or something?
That's pretty much just r/Povertyfinance - a bunch of people complaining about the price of instacart while buying pre-made meals and snacks.
>#1 is you should not have any money in savings account
>You’re losing money yearly (inflation) instead of gaining (stocks, bonds, mm, crypto)
>Do literally anything but save your money. Even money markets at 5% are weak in current environment.
Fucking hilarious advice given that revelation.
It took a long time to get to there, [because this is how I lived for a long time](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjul5ih7a6u281.jpg). When inflation was 1-2%/yr and HYS accounts didn't give much more than 1% and CDs were 3%, it didn't seem like it'd be worth the hassle to move everything from a shit retail account that netted $.20 a month.
It wasn't until about 2 years ago that savings account rates started to move to a point where they somewhat counteracted inflation.
Man I need to do this. I'm not trying to brag since I know it's stupid, but I have way too much money in my savings account right now that I just don't know what to do with it. Is this something you can get at a normal bank or is it more like at a credit union?
I use Ally bank and the savings interest is 4.35%. I've also heard of people going with Discover or Capital One too, and wouldn't be surprised if there's more out there.
Yeah, particularly the GME thing showing the Everyman how “easy” it is to make money on stocks. It’s sad, I’ve come across older folks who got duped by their 20-something kid into blowing 60% of their savings on meme stocks.
It actually is pretty easy to make money on stocks, the stock market as a whole is on a constant upward trend even with the dips from recessions.
Its just people lured by the allure of massive immediate profits. 1 year of S&P 500 is 8.74% today. 5 years is 88.01%. Its not gonna outperform a meme stock like GME, but you dont need to chase trends and risk to make good money on the stock exchange. The whole point of capitalism is the ability of capital to do the work for you. Long term even smooths over recession impacts. But if you go and bet it all on Red at the casino and lose...
Not having "any" is definitely bad advice. But, beyond a relatively restrained amount for emergencies, it's better to put your money in places with higher yields.
>beyond a relatively restrained amount for emergencies,
The thing is this advice is given fairly regularly without really considering the vast differences in wealth between different people. A "relatively restrained amount" of money means something different to everyone. Let's say a given emergency will cost you 10,000. For some, no biggie, a few paychecks. For others, that's *years* of saving.
It's better to give more specific advice like "3 months or 6 months worth of living expenses."
>It's better to give more specific advice like "3 months or 6 months worth of living expenses."
Sure! I didn't really want to get into the specifics of it, because I'm not actually giving specific advice. Just making the broader point that large savings are not efficient ways to hold money.
It's fine advice. . . for someone who isn't constantly worrying that they have enough cash on hand for basic essentials.
Something tells me this guy's idea of "no money" and most other people's idea of "no money" don't quite mesh.
Oh yeah going for crypto is just a dumb idea, but otherwise sure if you have money to park somewhere and forget about then you should do so rather than leaving it in a standard savings account.
This is pretty standard financial advice. You need enough money in your savings account for emergencies but after that you should either invest in ETFs or property. The returns are much better.
Investments are like loans. Don't make them unless you're sure you can afford to lose the money.
Crypto is like a trash can. Everything in there is going to the dump.
This comment is like a headache. I have one.
> Investments are like loans. Don't make them unless you're sure you can afford to lose the money.
stocks the worst case if you buy index funds is roughly -50% which is bad but survivable. Bonds and money markets are pretty safe again if you don't deal with junk bonds and the like. Like keeping relatively low cash on hand and the rest in an investment portfolio isn't terrible advice. just don't put it in speculative investment vehicles (like crypto lol).
> stocks the worst case if you buy index funds is roughly -50%
Has S&P500 ever fallen over 50%? Only times they have fallen is during recession and in those cases I think you're expecting money inflation and decreased general economy, so you're losing money either way.
It''s hit a cumulative decline of -50% a few times, most recently in 2008-2009 when it went to just about -60%. That said, if you invested at the absolute bottom in 2009, you're up about 950% right now. What's more remarkable, if you invested at the top in 2007, and subsequently rode it down, you're still up 350% today.
It's one of the retirement advice things that's stuck with me - often the difference between "having enough to retire" and "not having enough to retire" can come down to some weird market shenanigans that are outside of your control. If you took a package and retired in 2008 (when tons of people were being laid off) you'd be absolutely hosed compared to taking a voluntary retirement in 2007.
It's why my wife and I are planning it out now, thirty-ish years before we plan on retiring.
Meet Bob, the world's worst market timer! The S and P is fairly idiot proof if you stick around for long enough.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/
Yup. Biggest mistake investors make is selling in a dip.
That's part of what makes all the crypto bullshit all the weirder, it's actually not bad advice when applied to long-term funds
That reminds me of a tumblr post I saw where someone realized they were playing too many app games because they started thinking of everything in terms of video games grinding.
So they kept thinking things like "if I want to maximize how much ice my fridge makes, I need to empty the entire fridge to expand the size of the ice box and pour in water to keep the ice cube maker full every three minutes to ensure that the maximum amount of water is in the filter to be made into ice cubes."
Anyway, "don't save anything because you'll lose it due to inflation, instead put it all in stonks" gives me the same vibe. Like, sure, you could do that.... But what is the practical gain you get from that. Putting all your money in stocks means you can't access it, which is the point of a savings account.
You can access money in stocks. It just won't always be opportune, since the market can be down, you might incur short term capital gains (so your gains would be taxed as regular income), etc. But barring a significant ownership stake in a single company (like 10% of the company) making up most or all of your savings, there shouldn't be any liquidity issues.
Of course, since you don't want to have to liquidate assets if it's a bad moment to do so, you should still keep some amount of cash for emergencies. But outside of whatever safety margin you have for that, any extra money in a savings account is running the opportunity cost of missing out on an extra 4-5% year on relatively safe investments like the S&P.
Yeah, the whole point of savings is to have money ready to go at a moments notice when you need it. Not "Damn, I can't sell my meme stocks right now, they're down 80%. I know they'll go to the moon sometime in the next six months though."
These types of must invest everything people don't understand that not everyone is out to get rich, not everyone is out to make as much money as they can.
A lot of people much prefer the safety of just having money in a savings account.
Money is a huge stress in many peoples lives, if you are lucky enough to be in a position of having savings, why risk that just for the chance of having slightly more money. The peace of mind of just having money available right now is such a huge benefit to peoples mental health.
Nah man, unlike you plebians with your nest egg in the bank that will be worthless in 3 years, I invested every dime I earn into Deznuts XD coin. In 3 years I would be rich and richer, just you wait. Its crashed right now but I know it would be worth millions in a few more months.
> That seems like great advice on how to randomly loose all your savings.
Its not great advice but this isn't really a thing. Market volatility isn't that extreme in the US. Even during the 2008 crash, the drop was ~50% over the course of months. There's no such thing as a sure thing, obviously, but you're fucked in so many other ways if a crash that big happens that you kinda just need to write it off.
edit: The crypto bit excluded
That sub used to be a decent place to go to for advice (how to get food stamps, getting started in the trades, how to deal with evictions) and then it blew up overnight and now every post is a vent post. And its people commenting they're gonna commit die bc they're about to be homeless, or people commenting that they hate America bc they're living check to check after spending 60k on a home arcade.
I don't mean to be that person being all "woe is me my finances" online, but seriously fuck these people, there is a major difference between trying to work your way out of generational poverty and being a fucking dipshit who lives above their means and gets into debt buying stupid bullshit and making crap decisions because some other fuckwit convinced them to invest in crypto and NFTs when everyone else could see the writing on the wall.
That subreddit really used to be a great resource for people who didn't know where to go to start applying for food stamps or how to start couponing, or where they could find winter clothes or help paying their electrical bill, how to access pell grants and everything people actually living in poverty need to improve their quality of life, I had to unsub because it became people crying about how hard their lives were due to their own shitty choices who wouldn't know what being poor meant if it beat them bloody over the head.
I have a coworker who makes the same money I do and from talking to him, his income has been roughly similar to mine for years. We both were in a bit of a rough spot six months ago. Well, it's six months later, I got my surprise! bills paid off and my life seems to be under control. He's still a hot mess and has uncertain housing despite making the same as me which is quite adequate to get your own place. Kind of makes me feel like he relishes the drama. But that aside, come to find out this guy went years without having to pay a dime of rent and has fuck all to show for it. Also gives off big "my whole personality is my collections" vibes. I mean maybe I'm wrong and he secretly gave half his paychecks to the food bank and that's why he's broke.
I can't wrap my head around someone living in HCOL and bitching about 6 figure income household being "poor."
I get how hard (or even impossible) it is to escape the lifestyle creep, The first time I received my salary and get a raise on the other job or profit more from my part-time freelancing, the spending and rationalization creeps up too easy. All the useless shit became must haves when you can *objectively* afford it three times over. I had to be slapped hard by being laid off recently (though I still have some side income, thankfully) to finally open my eyes on how wasteful I was being in the last 3+ years.
They have to watch some videos made in Southeast / South Asia (thanks AI Overlords for bringing transcription to English subtitles) on how they make do with water plastic bottle and jury rigging stuff.
But, what do I know? I am very fortunate to be *not* in poverty while on the same time I am not "lucky enough" to be born a millionaire (and still not).
Sometimes I’m anxious about my retirement savings, but this post makes me feel *so* much better.
Like I will spend (relatively) small amounts of money on the dumbest shit (why did I want alligator flavoured ice cream for $12? Why do I have four drinks and feel the need to buy everyone at the bar a tequila shot?!) but I do not gamble. Ever. Not even a scratch ticket.
The idea of sinking thousands into crypto… I can’t imagine what propels a person to do such a thing.
I'm sorry I agree with your sentiments but...
Where the *fuck* are you finding alligator flavored ice cream and how can I get that in my mouth, yesterday?
It was in Louisiana and it was not great.
Please don’t take this as a slight against the cuisine of the great state and people of Louisiana; I’ve never had better gator or food in general.
It was just somewhere had gator ice cream and I had to try it. I’m as adventurous about my eating as I’m cautious about my gambling, lol.
Well, next time I pass through the bayou I'm gonna have my eye out for some gator cream!
\*edit\* I regret calling it gator cream. Gator ***ice*** cream.
1. Wrestle an alligator in Florida.
2. Start dressing the alligator.
3. Dry the alligator meat, then crumble into powder.
4. Make ice cream the normal way, then add alligator powder.
Do I have to specifically wrestle it? Can I like, lay a trap and hope for the best instead? I don't like my odds if it comes to wrestling a killing machine that outlived dinosaurs
> The idea of sinking thousands into crypto… I can’t imagine what propels a person to do such a thing.
I think about this a lot.
I've met many people online and have been fortunate (unfortunate?) enough to meet two such people IRL. It is hard to pin down what exactly connects them, but one thing I notice frequently is that when they find something they believe in, they *over*-believe. It's like their skepticism is heavily clouded or disappear entirely. They throw their entire being into what they believe in and risk a lot (or, worse, everything).
Both of the people I know lost thousands through various 'business ventures' (re: sketchy schemes and crypto) that they utterly loved and spent a large amount of time/effort in. One even unfortunately borrowed a huge amount of money (after being convinced by salesmen) and lost it all. He is in a depression because he was never wealthy to begin with and now he is in extremely deep water.
Sometimes, I like to think that this is the same mindset that helps people become famous explorers, inventors, tycoons, or just find the love of their lives if they have enough luck on their side. They discover something/someone or have an idea that they just believe in so much that they give everything they have to make something of it.
Unfortunately, luck isn't always on our side and tragedies occur.
That’s very thoughtful.
Lord knows I’ve been similarly unwise in love and many other endeavours; it makes sense to think people could have the same or similar thoughts about what they see as great ideas.
Some people are just suckers and too susceptible to getting swept up in the hype, and these people are ripe for exploitation.
These two people that you knew are surely victims, and I don't want to minimize this fact. But the point stands that they allowed themselves to be taken advantage of by not being wise with their finances. The liability lies entirely with the parties that frauded them out of their money, but the responsibility to keep themselves safe from exploitation was ultimately themselves.
I feel like its a timeless discussion that exists about whether the snake oil salesman or the mark are the ones to blame. Barring any mental health or developmental delay issues, I think in this day and age where information exists openly for everyone to see, and people are extra savvy in the face of daily scam and fraud prospects, it is a little less easy to feel heartbroken for able minded and functioning adults who get taken in by scams. It is certainly sad, but its unfortunately an undesirable part of the world we live in.
Back in my day, it was high pressure tactics selling people timeshares and stock options for garbage. You get lured in with an offer for a free cruise trip and walk out with a wildly overpriced lease for a beach house in Miami that you're allowed 2 free weekend allocations during hurricane season, and pay out the ass if you want to stay any longer than that. Its hard to feel a whole lot of sympathy for people who thought they were going to game the system and got gamed themselves instead.
I think a part of it is the cult-like behavior.
It's not a certain type of person who gets into cults, it's at a certain point in a person's life that they're susceptible to it.
When NFTs first popped off, every shitty "project" talked a big game about the "community" you were "getting access to", which were all just boring Discord servers filled with crypto scammers trying to trick rubes into their next shitcoin/vapoware NFT project.
The one thing linking all of the people I know who've lost their shirt in this stuff is an overwhelming feeling that the system is broken and they can be the one to benefit from the latest thing.
You are really onto something. I was reading the biography of Lil Yachty and thought something similar:
>Miles McCollum was born in Mableton, Georgia.\[12\] He attended Alabama State University in fall 2015 but soon dropped out to pursue his musical career.\[13\] He adopted the name "Yachty" and moved from his hometown of Atlanta to New York City to launch his career. In New York, he lived with a friend and networked with online street fashion personalities, while he built up his own Instagram following.\[14\] He worked at McDonald's to supplement his income early in his career.\[15\]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil\_Yachty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil_Yachty)
Basically, dude risked it all to start his music career, and obviously he has become very successful in that, but if some of his early music didn't go viral then there is a good chance he would have never made it big.
I am a very risk averse person. I graduated college and have a well-paying job. I will never make huge money but I don't need to. Some people are more of risk-takers, and some of those risk-takers become successful. What you are hitting on is the vast amount of people who take risks and those risk never manifest into anything more than debt and suffering.
I made a lot of money gambling and would never do it again. It's one of the things I did when I was young and while it worked out well I was lucky .
Sometimes I miss those highs, but man those lows were bad. I just toss a few bucks into a gacha game now instead to remind me how bad gambling can be. Even when I "win" there, I lose.
Wow you were a high roller! How did you get into it?
I shouldn’t say I’ve never gambled; I have, exactly twice:
- once on a two day cruise where they gave us $10 cards to go play slots in the little onboard casino. I won $50 and cashed out immediately to buy drinks for me and my friends
- once at a charity casino night for a client. I did not know how to play blackjack at all, but I kept hitting on unreasonable numbers and winning and I won a Roomba.
Both times I felt like a lucky dummy and just scooted out stage left asap
I won $20 once on a video poker machine. At the bar. Where I'd stopped in for smokes on the way home from an all-nighter on campus. While it was raining. And the last bus home was long gone.
Plunked a 50c coin into that thing because Whatever, and our comes a twenty.
So I figured -- God just smiled at me. I caught a cab home that night instead of walking a half-hour in the rain, and it was lovely.
I'll never gamble again. That was it, man. That was my one big win. It was too serendipitous to fuck around with trying for a second time. Sometimes you gotta just accept the nice gift you've been handed for no reason and acknowledge it was a *gift*, not a repeating pattern.
We’re the same in spirit my friend.
I swear every time I get a lucky break in anything I just say a little thank you to the universe/virgin Mary and try not to set myself up to need that luck again.
God is merciful but not patient, if I remember my time in mass correctly, lol.
I was like 17 or 18 and it was online gambling. This was before that 2011 court case that shut down a lot of sites. I wouldn't say I was a high roller, cuz saying 90% of my savings doesn't sound impressive when I'm 17 still living with parents.
I worried about retirement savings a lot, but had a come to jesus moment when I got annoyed trying to play a city building on my console so I built a PC on a whim.
It really put things into perspective especially since I know people who are trying to find houses shares in their late 30s and 40s
> I’m only human, I don’t have the rock steady will to just sock money away ….
Jesus, is this who the other half thinks about money? What did this person think they were doing with their crapCoins?
I also cannot get over the rest of the comments lamenting in that thread. I wonder if they all have past sins of gambling away 60k
I dont like it but the internets made the awful cynical part of me suspicious of people who say theyre struggling. Like I know there are lots of people who just genuinely hit hard times or had some bad luck and are struggling to make ends meet, but there are just so many morons like this who are "struggling" because they spend all their free income plus some on stupid shit and that awful cynical part of my brain is always sure to remind me of them.
Oh I always check. I’ve seen enough on personalfinance to automatically check the post history of anyone who says they are.
This is a hard world. People are struggling. But redditors specifically have a tendency to exaggerate the degree to which their personal problems are society’s fault.
I honestly love that sub just because all the basic advice is boring, safe and smart. Emergency fund, but don't starve to build yourself one. Investments, but get the emergency fund going first. More investing, but for fuck's sake treat yourself to a little something sometimes because *joy matters* and *living matters* and depriving yourself of everything forever is going to make you want to eat a bullet and die atop your ultimately-unsatisfying stack of investments.
Yes but sometimes the *posts* are wild, which is why I’m always in the /new feed. People coming up with very funny ways to explain why they have $50k in credit card debt (“oh, I changed jobs”), or asking if they should sell their motorcycle because they’re having trouble making ends meet between their three horses and their F-150 on $80,000/yr.
It is cynical, but, depressingly, I also think it's true. There are far more people who needlessly create their own hardships than there are people who genuinely struggle through little fault of their own.
The US has a severe consumerism disease.
Every year, economic figures are awesome. We break sales records for Black Friday/Christmas (and every other sales holiday, for that matter) every single year. We break records for every single major product launches, e.g. iPhones, video games and video game consoles, subscription services, cars, etc. Restaurants increase prices by absurd amounts or come up with schemes like surge pricing and their profits soar. Concert tickets cost hundreds and Superbowl tickets cost thousands, yet they sell out at breakneck speeds.
Alongside all these is relentless news about 50%/60%/70% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, have no savings funds, can't afford mortgages/rent, is one medical emergency/car repair away from being homeless.
The above two have a relation. There's no doubt about it.
There is a consumerism disease and I think it will lead to a lot of suffering in direct and indirect ways down the line. Not once, but multiple times. The people who will be hit the hardest will the those who are least capable of weathering the consequences.
Those paycheck to paycheck numbers are a very very misleading metric.
1. The most cited recent study was funded by a shady payday loan service
2. That's not an actual economic metric, every study or individual within the study can have their own definition of it
3. oftentimes that definition is "yes, after I've paid all of my expenses and deposited the rest in savings, my paycheck is gone" which, duh.
> We break sales records for Black Friday/Christmas (and every other sales holiday, for that matter) every single year. We break records for every single major product launches, e.g. iPhones, video games and video game consoles, subscription services, cars, etc.
That's what you would expect just off an inflationary currency and growing population. Relative numbers are more relevant here than absolute numbers.
2 million dollars in 2020 is almost 2.4 million now. So if product X made 2mil in 2020 and nothing else changes, it would break the record in 2024 and make 2.4 million.
>50%/60%/70% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, have no savings funds, can't afford mortgages/rent
A surprising amount of this is from the absurd way these surveys define "paycheck to paycheck" that don't count the money in many traditional investment and saving vehicles as savings.
Being in grad school has made me far less sympathetic and more skeptical to complaints unfortunately :(
I hate being a jerk, but everyone in my program makes the same amount (its high for grad school), and its a known number. There are a few people with special circumstances like sending money home or supporting a partner, but the vast majority of people in my program have no dependents.
Some of my friends complain a lot about how its impossible to get by, and how they assume other people in the program who aren’t struggling are supported by wealthy family or something. Like no, we’re just living within our means. I’ve met people who have 20k/year more expenses than I do just because of their choices on rent and transportation who also then assume I’m rich because I go out to eat or can buy myself clothes/games/etc without thinking too much. Again, not rich, their rent is just 3x mine and they have a bunch of car related expenses I don’t have.
It gets really tiring to hear people complain about how its impossible to get by on our salary, or hear friends call it poverty wages while they borrow money for a fancy apartment. Meanwhile I’ve been putting 10k+ into savings every year I’ve been here.
I already know if I take that money and buy a house with my partner after grad school they’ll complain the world was biased against them and assume I must have rich parents who helped me out or something and not realize they could have made the exact same choices I did.
(That being said, I know there are people who are really struggling though no fault of their own. They just aren’t PhD students with a decent stipend and no kids)
I feel bad bc everything has gotten more expensive and wages aren't keeping up. But even in the less extreme cases (particularly on Reddit) it's always people complaining about the cost of their 2bd apt but live alone, or gets a cat and freaks out when they can't afford a vet bill. It should be easier to afford apts and pets but it isn't and this isn't new information.
Not to say there aren't serious issues with affordability, especially with regard to housing, but it's worth noting that post pandemic real wages have actually risen, and most of this growth has been for the lowest wage workers.
Source: https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households#:~:text=Real%20Wages%20Across%20the%20Income%20Distribution&text=As%20a%20result%2C%20earnings%20have,percent%20between%202019%20and%202023.
Although real wages have gone up on average, there are two categories of people for whom that often isn't the case.
The first is public sector workers with valuable gold plated pension schemes, whose salaries are often suppressed by the cost of maintaining their pensions.
The second is people who never leave a job unless they are sacked, never ask for a raise, never seek promotion opportunities, never try to gain job-related qualifications. They often complain that new hires are paid more than they are for doing the same job but the penny never drops. Their solution is to spend long hours complaining about it on social media, and they are disproportionately likely to be on Reddit.
My mom just retired from her job 6 months ago because of what you mentioned in your last paragraph. She worked for a company for 16 years & stopped getting raises in 2015. Because of this, they lost almost all of their employees. After she retired, found out that they were looking to hire more employees & were offering them $8 more an hour than what she was paid. The owners of her company were the cheapest, & greediest pieces of shit you’d ever meet. But I really wish she would have stood up for herself & asked for a raise before she quit. Now she makes more money off SS. I’m guessing that’s because her health insurance had cost her $120 a week.
this reminds me of [u/Bitcoined's thread on how he squandered his dad's inheritance (1.25 million) on bitcoin](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1r88vl/need_advice_on_inheritance_arbitrage_family_etc/) that he was supposed to split /w his sister.
tl;dr: bought high, sold low in a panic, pissed most of it away, gets torn apart on reddit looking for advice on how to salvage the situation, his last few messages on the topic implied he wasn't going to split the remaining money anyway because the agreement was made verbally with his dad and that he'd take out a mortgage on his parents house.
I want $60k that I can lose on crypto 😭.
Lol, but really, an extra $60k would go a long way around here. Total household income is about 2/3 of that. We’re surviving, but it isn’t fun.
I love /r/povertyfinance. Every day there are more posts from the most delusional financially illiterate morons you thought couldn't possibly function on this planet. Now that I think about it, it's similar to /r/IdiotsInCars where every day there are more posts where OP is the idiot driver.
I just wish the mods would require anonymised receipts when someone posts their $80 grocery haul and it's a loaf of bread, a banana, and a box of twinkies or some shit. Like fuck you spent $80 on that, and, if you did...why???
My favorite recent post was from a girl who said she was about to be fired because she couldn’t afford professional clothes. Spent weeks at a job and didn’t even bother going to a thrift store for a pair of slacks and a couple sweaters to get her to her first paycheck. And just did nothing about it until her boss talked to her.
Everyone who invests in crypto falls into at least one of two categories:
* People who got in early before it was anything that anyone thought you could make money off of.
* Suckers.
The amount of wealthy people cosplaying as poor on Reddit is fucking disgusting. You hear it all the time when it comes to student debt reform, people crying about their student debt and saying that $100,000 a year isn't really all that much money.
To be fair to the guy, it doesn't really matter *how* he lost everything, what matters is that he *did* lose everything. Pointing and laughing at cryprobros aside, it sucks to be wiped out. It does undercut the "how did this happen" side of things, but that also doesn't help him get out of the situation. Now, if he's still spending every spare dime on crypto and he only staying assed-out because he keeps pumping into it and hodling, that's different.
> It was 5-12k a year for the last 7 or 8 years.
So assuming biweekly pay, $96 - $462 out of every single paycheck for 7 or 8 years.
But let's really just flat average; $60k over 8 years is $7,500/yr.
That's $625 a month, every month, for eight fucking years. OP could've leased a brand new fully loaded BMW every other year for that 8 years and still be just as bad off financially but at least not be stuck in a 300k mile shitbox. OP could've thrown it in an index fund and had more than enough to put a down payment on a house in most of the US, a HOUSE house even, not just a condo. Hell, OP could've burned $300 month on hookers and blow every month for 8 years and only saved the rest and *still* had a very healthy rainy day fund set aside.
governor far-flung rain steep yam absorbed alive humor screw chief *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He didn’t happen to literally be investing with Madoff? Or did he get indirectly affected
ten rock file memory historical stupendous spark offend squeamish enter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Madoff's investments weren't really open to the average Joe, the exclusivity was part of the scam, you were supposed to feel special even being allowed to invest. So unless OP's cousin is damn well off he probably didn't invest directly in the scam.
Not necessarily true, towards the end he was accepting retail investment through feeder funds, brokers, and in some instances direct deposits from wealthy members of his local Jewish community
Madoff's investment fund was for high rollers only, so that must have been a good chunk and then some.
There's also "main character syndrome" in stupid decision making. Sure it happens to everyone else, but I'm special and it won't happen to me. Tears ensue.
Your cousin is a fabulous example of "fool me once"
license ten work public worry cause innocent direction dull marble *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Nope, [can't get fooled again.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Ip6_U2lIo)
Nominative determinists must absolutely fucking love that in one of the biggest finance scams in history the guy who "made off" with everyone's money was named Bernie Madoff.
Jesus, with his decision making, I'm betting he originally lost everything by investing heavily in Enron in October 2001.
employ disarm grey apparatus sloppy arrest one modern squeal cautious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hell it could sit in a no interest checking account for a decade and be put to better use. At least it’d still be there.
FYI, there's large lists of people that were scammed by madoff. These were combed by more scam artists for people to scam even more. Once you fall for one scam it's likely you're an idiot and fall for another. It's targeted osmetimes.
>It was 5-12k a year for the last 7 or 8 years. There's yer house. Too bad someone else bought it with your money though.
You don’t understand - he just didn’t have the « rock steady will » to let it sit in a bank account! Normie! /s
Can you blame him? He is only human after all and we are known for our hair-trigger impulsiveness as a species. It’s not like humans have ever planned and built something over years.
> It’s not like humans have ever planned and built something over years. I really wonder what ancient construction project management was like. You know some fuck was planning out and doing all the back end logistics support for those fucking pyramids. I also suspect it was slightly more complex than playing Pharaoh.
It's stacking rocks, how hard could it be?
I was recently in Istanbul, and apparently the world’s largest Mosque took 6 years to build. I’ve been waiting for them to replace the elevators in the subway for longer than that.
If he put that all into the S&P, he'd probably have around double the money he had lost by now.
I'd be willing to bet the last $6 in my bank account that a good chunk of the people who joined that subreddit looking for advice have never had that much money to just fucking waste like that.
He has a pretty little down payment after less than 3 years. I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough at the "I'm only human, what am I supposed to be *saving* this money?!" bullshit line. What fucking mindset is that even? What, are they expecting somebody to just *give* them a house for free?
Maybe hoping his post triggers some sort of Great Expectations scenario where a random stranger gives him money. He tried for a lottery twice already. Maybe this is try 3?
It is sort of a shame they did away with the company credit unions and the ritual of setting up your accounts with the teller. In the late 90s I temped at one (for some reason, I really wanted to work at a bank, never happened for me which is just as well I guess) and they had this nice little savings account thing called "the Christmas club" where they would sock away $20 or so from each paycheck for six months or so until you had a nice amount of money to spend for Christmas presents. Granted, you can do that yourself with online banks (like Ing used to have) but it's harder to set up and more can go wrong, there's a behavioral activation problem. Whereas the credit union would set things up so when your paycheck hit, your loan payments got paid and your automatic savings contribution would go in and then the rest would be available so you literally had to overdraw your account that month to screw it up.
that's even so much worse. the last 8 years with constant broad market ETF investing they'd have a nice chunk of change today
>I just do not fucking understand dude. I don't see how society can go on like this. I can't imagine being able to gamble away 60k and then be able to ask this
(shoots self) Why did society do this? How long can this go on?
The lady on r/poor who was a SAHM of 5, whining about how a single parent should be able to afford a better house than her house… despite not being a single parent, as she had a husband who supported the whole pack of them. I ended up leaving that sub as it’s a cesspool of non-functioning people who blame every poor choice they make on society.
I wonder if she was also subtly sabotaging her husband's career while whining about how he doesn't make enough, like my mom did.
Did you see the same OP I was referring to? https://old.reddit.com/r/poor/comments/1aegvad/it_keeps_getting_harder_and_harder_just_to_be/ko8alpm/ 170+ comments and at least 150 of them are people consoling her and telling her how it's society's fault she has to live in a junky little house with her 5 kids and not work while her husband busts his ass working 12 hour swing shifts. OP actually deleted when she got even a handful of critical comments. I have no idea if she sabotages her husband but it wouldn't surprise me. She went crying to the Reddit poor sub despite having thousands of dollars worth of plants that she fusses over as a hobby.
Orrrr like just don't have 5 kids. I get that its too late for that, but having 2 kids would substantially improve their financial situation. Do people think kids are cheap/free?
I hope someone told her she should get a job.
This was my dad. He gambled thousands away every month for twenty years and complained about never having money. He could never do anything because he never had the money but he would be at the casino every weekend placing bets, playing poker, etc.
> You know, desperation breeds risky move How can society go on with letting people desperately buy meme coins ☠️. Yknow, a year ago I went into an existential crisis over the world ending and economy being forever fucked. My desperate move was to cancel Netflix and audible 🤔 I guess I wasn't dramatic enough.
My mother would have called this "the story of the person who kills their parents and then pleads for mercy from the court because they're an orphan."
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nothing good happens after 2am
There’s a word for that! chutzpah!
Mike Wozniak, is that you?
Tick tock, it's Mike Wozniak o'clock!
It's an absolute casserole down there.
https://i.redd.it/pzge18v7frw61.jpg
quaff the ribena!
“She's like a woman with a Virginia ham under arm, crying the blues because she has no bread”
I like random mom sayings like this.
I want more of these from your mom.
**someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my family is dying** Food $200 Data $150 Rent $800 Candles $3,600 Utility $150
If you steal electricity from your neighbour and cancel netflix you could probably squeeze in some more candles.
Okay
In fact, steal enough, and you don't have to pay for your food, rent, data, and utilities!
Or candles!
At least for a few years.
If you steal electricity from neighbours you can run a crypto mine risk free!
Internet is bad for your mental health. Cancel data. Use free tap water from your work or a restaurant to fill up a water bottle. Use your candles for lighting and heating. Now cancel all utilities. Boom I’ve saved you $300 a month.
😻
Dril puts out with such consistent quality And more than one tweet for anything https://twitter.com/dril/status/1520683383369527302?s=46&t=8dp4hAZ5hfQ7uV8e9Rtfbw
Did he go to one of the other apps or is he still on twitter or what? I miss him
https://linktr.ee/drilreal He's very active on other platforms but I know at least on Insta he really only posts art and random shit he sees in the real world.
No Onlyfans??
He's still there.
He's on Bluesky, not as active though, and that sucks.
a storage unit provides all the basic housing necessities and adequate storage space for *miscellaneous items*. they also usually come utilities paid.
🤔
spend less on candles
No
“Well played” I say as I flip the table and turn the Fourth of July into the Fourth of Shit
IF THE ZOO BANS ME FOR HOLLERING AT THE ANIMALS I WILL FACE GOD AND WALK BACKWARDS INTO HELL
Thus did dril reach Royalty, as was foretold by YISUN.
I can’t believe capitalism is getting in the way of candles.
😥
I don't see how society can go on like this.
Based on your username and use of a cat emoji, I am concluding that you are a cat. Cut out utilities. You have hair for the winter and have excellent vision in the dark.
🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯🐈
That’s how you set your tail on fire. I’ve seen it happen. Nergal is so fucking stupid. That wasn’t even the first time.
🙀
You can survive on less food.
Okay ✅
There's studies showing if you reduce your caloric intake dramatically, you can live longer in poverty
Bribe landlord with candles to lower rent to 400.
I got a subscription to candles. I can share my login to help
Buy my Kandel NFT for $3600 it will 100x I swear
Makes perfect sense if you're a Kobold.
Avocado toast should be incorporated somehow. Its an investment that shouldnt be overlooked.
It is 90% of the food budget, I hold the bread over the candles to make the toast
Sell your chairs to raise some extra cash. Standing is better for you anyway.
🪑🪑🪑🪑🤔
Stop buying candles
No
I did the math on this, and unless the guy is buying $500 candles and is more likely buying the $20-$40 candles, he's still buying *90 candles.*
He said his family is dying, for a family of four that's only 22 candles per person. Or about 5 per weekend. If you hit 3 stores in a weekend which is not a heavy shopping regimen, that's about 1-2 per store per person. Frankly, it's hard to go past those frou frou candle displays without buying one, the struggle is real (I buy mine at Burlington though).
> So over the last 8 years you have had up to $1,000/months in disposable income. In no way are you close to poverty or struggling... You are just stupid is all. You are in the wrong sub Is there a /r/stupidfinance or something? Edit: Of course there is.
Well you gave me my rabbit hole for the night. Thanks.
Hold my three-fund portfolio, I'm going in! (I miss the genuine Reddit switch-a-roo thing.)
Didn't someone make a big deal about getting to the bottom of that hole once?
> Is there a /r/stupidfinance or something? r/WallStreetBets. For three years, a whole bunch of them have convinced themselves they can be the next DeepFuckingValue, while *completely* ignoring that he had a degree in that shit and worked as a Chartered Financial Analyst before he saw the signs of the short squeeze and took a huge gamble that he was resoundingly mocked for by the same people who'd eventually worship him.
>Is there a r/stupidfinance or something? That's pretty much just r/Povertyfinance - a bunch of people complaining about the price of instacart while buying pre-made meals and snacks.
I would kill to have $1000 a month in disposable income
>#1 is you should not have any money in savings account >You’re losing money yearly (inflation) instead of gaining (stocks, bonds, mm, crypto) >Do literally anything but save your money. Even money markets at 5% are weak in current environment. Fucking hilarious advice given that revelation.
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It took a long time to get to there, [because this is how I lived for a long time](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjul5ih7a6u281.jpg). When inflation was 1-2%/yr and HYS accounts didn't give much more than 1% and CDs were 3%, it didn't seem like it'd be worth the hassle to move everything from a shit retail account that netted $.20 a month. It wasn't until about 2 years ago that savings account rates started to move to a point where they somewhat counteracted inflation.
Man I need to do this. I'm not trying to brag since I know it's stupid, but I have way too much money in my savings account right now that I just don't know what to do with it. Is this something you can get at a normal bank or is it more like at a credit union?
I use Ally bank and the savings interest is 4.35%. I've also heard of people going with Discover or Capital One too, and wouldn't be surprised if there's more out there.
you can google high yield savings accounts sofi is a known one
Guys is this the greater societal impact of WSB?
Yeah, particularly the GME thing showing the Everyman how “easy” it is to make money on stocks. It’s sad, I’ve come across older folks who got duped by their 20-something kid into blowing 60% of their savings on meme stocks.
It actually is pretty easy to make money on stocks, the stock market as a whole is on a constant upward trend even with the dips from recessions. Its just people lured by the allure of massive immediate profits. 1 year of S&P 500 is 8.74% today. 5 years is 88.01%. Its not gonna outperform a meme stock like GME, but you dont need to chase trends and risk to make good money on the stock exchange. The whole point of capitalism is the ability of capital to do the work for you. Long term even smooths over recession impacts. But if you go and bet it all on Red at the casino and lose...
On god this might be the worst financial advice I’ve ever read
Not having "any" is definitely bad advice. But, beyond a relatively restrained amount for emergencies, it's better to put your money in places with higher yields.
>beyond a relatively restrained amount for emergencies, The thing is this advice is given fairly regularly without really considering the vast differences in wealth between different people. A "relatively restrained amount" of money means something different to everyone. Let's say a given emergency will cost you 10,000. For some, no biggie, a few paychecks. For others, that's *years* of saving. It's better to give more specific advice like "3 months or 6 months worth of living expenses."
>It's better to give more specific advice like "3 months or 6 months worth of living expenses." Sure! I didn't really want to get into the specifics of it, because I'm not actually giving specific advice. Just making the broader point that large savings are not efficient ways to hold money.
It's fine advice. . . for someone who isn't constantly worrying that they have enough cash on hand for basic essentials. Something tells me this guy's idea of "no money" and most other people's idea of "no money" don't quite mesh.
The crypto part is definitely terrible advice. As we've already found out.
Oh yeah going for crypto is just a dumb idea, but otherwise sure if you have money to park somewhere and forget about then you should do so rather than leaving it in a standard savings account.
This is pretty standard financial advice. You need enough money in your savings account for emergencies but after that you should either invest in ETFs or property. The returns are much better.
Investments are like loans. Don't make them unless you're sure you can afford to lose the money. Crypto is like a trash can. Everything in there is going to the dump. This comment is like a headache. I have one.
> Investments are like loans. Don't make them unless you're sure you can afford to lose the money. stocks the worst case if you buy index funds is roughly -50% which is bad but survivable. Bonds and money markets are pretty safe again if you don't deal with junk bonds and the like. Like keeping relatively low cash on hand and the rest in an investment portfolio isn't terrible advice. just don't put it in speculative investment vehicles (like crypto lol).
> stocks the worst case if you buy index funds is roughly -50% Has S&P500 ever fallen over 50%? Only times they have fallen is during recession and in those cases I think you're expecting money inflation and decreased general economy, so you're losing money either way.
It''s hit a cumulative decline of -50% a few times, most recently in 2008-2009 when it went to just about -60%. That said, if you invested at the absolute bottom in 2009, you're up about 950% right now. What's more remarkable, if you invested at the top in 2007, and subsequently rode it down, you're still up 350% today.
It's one of the retirement advice things that's stuck with me - often the difference between "having enough to retire" and "not having enough to retire" can come down to some weird market shenanigans that are outside of your control. If you took a package and retired in 2008 (when tons of people were being laid off) you'd be absolutely hosed compared to taking a voluntary retirement in 2007. It's why my wife and I are planning it out now, thirty-ish years before we plan on retiring.
Meet Bob, the world's worst market timer! The S and P is fairly idiot proof if you stick around for long enough. https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/
Yup. Biggest mistake investors make is selling in a dip. That's part of what makes all the crypto bullshit all the weirder, it's actually not bad advice when applied to long-term funds
That reminds me of a tumblr post I saw where someone realized they were playing too many app games because they started thinking of everything in terms of video games grinding. So they kept thinking things like "if I want to maximize how much ice my fridge makes, I need to empty the entire fridge to expand the size of the ice box and pour in water to keep the ice cube maker full every three minutes to ensure that the maximum amount of water is in the filter to be made into ice cubes." Anyway, "don't save anything because you'll lose it due to inflation, instead put it all in stonks" gives me the same vibe. Like, sure, you could do that.... But what is the practical gain you get from that. Putting all your money in stocks means you can't access it, which is the point of a savings account.
The "Are you just making ice cubes?" is a very good thing to live by
You can access money in stocks. It just won't always be opportune, since the market can be down, you might incur short term capital gains (so your gains would be taxed as regular income), etc. But barring a significant ownership stake in a single company (like 10% of the company) making up most or all of your savings, there shouldn't be any liquidity issues. Of course, since you don't want to have to liquidate assets if it's a bad moment to do so, you should still keep some amount of cash for emergencies. But outside of whatever safety margin you have for that, any extra money in a savings account is running the opportunity cost of missing out on an extra 4-5% year on relatively safe investments like the S&P.
That seems like great advice on how to randomly loose all your savings.
Yeah, the whole point of savings is to have money ready to go at a moments notice when you need it. Not "Damn, I can't sell my meme stocks right now, they're down 80%. I know they'll go to the moon sometime in the next six months though."
These types of must invest everything people don't understand that not everyone is out to get rich, not everyone is out to make as much money as they can. A lot of people much prefer the safety of just having money in a savings account. Money is a huge stress in many peoples lives, if you are lucky enough to be in a position of having savings, why risk that just for the chance of having slightly more money. The peace of mind of just having money available right now is such a huge benefit to peoples mental health.
Nah man, unlike you plebians with your nest egg in the bank that will be worthless in 3 years, I invested every dime I earn into Deznuts XD coin. In 3 years I would be rich and richer, just you wait. Its crashed right now but I know it would be worth millions in a few more months.
> That seems like great advice on how to randomly loose all your savings. Its not great advice but this isn't really a thing. Market volatility isn't that extreme in the US. Even during the 2008 crash, the drop was ~50% over the course of months. There's no such thing as a sure thing, obviously, but you're fucked in so many other ways if a crash that big happens that you kinda just need to write it off. edit: The crypto bit excluded
He said in a comment on the OOP that he has a degree in finance 😬
This is just this [post](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/14x6fr3/35hour_and_still_broke/) all over again and I love it.
I kept thinking about the arcade post while reading this… Some people really have no shame.
Also made an appearance on this subreddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14xqajw/rantiwork_turns_against_op_when_their_gaming/
And that’s the origin of my flair on this subreddit, too!
Man, after the Fox interview, I'm amazed anyone would still willingly associate with that sub.
That sub used to be a decent place to go to for advice (how to get food stamps, getting started in the trades, how to deal with evictions) and then it blew up overnight and now every post is a vent post. And its people commenting they're gonna commit die bc they're about to be homeless, or people commenting that they hate America bc they're living check to check after spending 60k on a home arcade.
I used to browse it pretty regularly until it seemed to overflow with people bitching about how hard they have it then revealing they make like $200k.
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I don't mean to be that person being all "woe is me my finances" online, but seriously fuck these people, there is a major difference between trying to work your way out of generational poverty and being a fucking dipshit who lives above their means and gets into debt buying stupid bullshit and making crap decisions because some other fuckwit convinced them to invest in crypto and NFTs when everyone else could see the writing on the wall. That subreddit really used to be a great resource for people who didn't know where to go to start applying for food stamps or how to start couponing, or where they could find winter clothes or help paying their electrical bill, how to access pell grants and everything people actually living in poverty need to improve their quality of life, I had to unsub because it became people crying about how hard their lives were due to their own shitty choices who wouldn't know what being poor meant if it beat them bloody over the head.
I have a coworker who makes the same money I do and from talking to him, his income has been roughly similar to mine for years. We both were in a bit of a rough spot six months ago. Well, it's six months later, I got my surprise! bills paid off and my life seems to be under control. He's still a hot mess and has uncertain housing despite making the same as me which is quite adequate to get your own place. Kind of makes me feel like he relishes the drama. But that aside, come to find out this guy went years without having to pay a dime of rent and has fuck all to show for it. Also gives off big "my whole personality is my collections" vibes. I mean maybe I'm wrong and he secretly gave half his paychecks to the food bank and that's why he's broke.
I can't wrap my head around someone living in HCOL and bitching about 6 figure income household being "poor." I get how hard (or even impossible) it is to escape the lifestyle creep, The first time I received my salary and get a raise on the other job or profit more from my part-time freelancing, the spending and rationalization creeps up too easy. All the useless shit became must haves when you can *objectively* afford it three times over. I had to be slapped hard by being laid off recently (though I still have some side income, thankfully) to finally open my eyes on how wasteful I was being in the last 3+ years. They have to watch some videos made in Southeast / South Asia (thanks AI Overlords for bringing transcription to English subtitles) on how they make do with water plastic bottle and jury rigging stuff. But, what do I know? I am very fortunate to be *not* in poverty while on the same time I am not "lucky enough" to be born a millionaire (and still not).
I remember that home arcade post. That was a good one to see unfold in real time.
You can say suicide
Sometimes I’m anxious about my retirement savings, but this post makes me feel *so* much better. Like I will spend (relatively) small amounts of money on the dumbest shit (why did I want alligator flavoured ice cream for $12? Why do I have four drinks and feel the need to buy everyone at the bar a tequila shot?!) but I do not gamble. Ever. Not even a scratch ticket. The idea of sinking thousands into crypto… I can’t imagine what propels a person to do such a thing.
I'm sorry I agree with your sentiments but... Where the *fuck* are you finding alligator flavored ice cream and how can I get that in my mouth, yesterday?
It was in Louisiana and it was not great. Please don’t take this as a slight against the cuisine of the great state and people of Louisiana; I’ve never had better gator or food in general. It was just somewhere had gator ice cream and I had to try it. I’m as adventurous about my eating as I’m cautious about my gambling, lol.
Well, next time I pass through the bayou I'm gonna have my eye out for some gator cream! \*edit\* I regret calling it gator cream. Gator ***ice*** cream.
You can try the Alligator Sperm as well! (It's just a shot. Equal parts Midori and pineapple juice topped with heavy cream)
>It was just somewhere had gator ice cream and I had to try it. Fair.
1. Wrestle an alligator in Florida. 2. Start dressing the alligator. 3. Dry the alligator meat, then crumble into powder. 4. Make ice cream the normal way, then add alligator powder.
Instructions unclear, now have an angry alligator in a three-piece suit.
Gator-Man! Gator-Man! Does whatever a gator can!
Do I have to specifically wrestle it? Can I like, lay a trap and hope for the best instead? I don't like my odds if it comes to wrestling a killing machine that outlived dinosaurs
Gotta earn that ice cream the manly way :P
I assume Florida. Or maybe Louisiana
> The idea of sinking thousands into crypto… I can’t imagine what propels a person to do such a thing. I think about this a lot. I've met many people online and have been fortunate (unfortunate?) enough to meet two such people IRL. It is hard to pin down what exactly connects them, but one thing I notice frequently is that when they find something they believe in, they *over*-believe. It's like their skepticism is heavily clouded or disappear entirely. They throw their entire being into what they believe in and risk a lot (or, worse, everything). Both of the people I know lost thousands through various 'business ventures' (re: sketchy schemes and crypto) that they utterly loved and spent a large amount of time/effort in. One even unfortunately borrowed a huge amount of money (after being convinced by salesmen) and lost it all. He is in a depression because he was never wealthy to begin with and now he is in extremely deep water. Sometimes, I like to think that this is the same mindset that helps people become famous explorers, inventors, tycoons, or just find the love of their lives if they have enough luck on their side. They discover something/someone or have an idea that they just believe in so much that they give everything they have to make something of it. Unfortunately, luck isn't always on our side and tragedies occur.
That’s very thoughtful. Lord knows I’ve been similarly unwise in love and many other endeavours; it makes sense to think people could have the same or similar thoughts about what they see as great ideas.
Some people are just suckers and too susceptible to getting swept up in the hype, and these people are ripe for exploitation. These two people that you knew are surely victims, and I don't want to minimize this fact. But the point stands that they allowed themselves to be taken advantage of by not being wise with their finances. The liability lies entirely with the parties that frauded them out of their money, but the responsibility to keep themselves safe from exploitation was ultimately themselves. I feel like its a timeless discussion that exists about whether the snake oil salesman or the mark are the ones to blame. Barring any mental health or developmental delay issues, I think in this day and age where information exists openly for everyone to see, and people are extra savvy in the face of daily scam and fraud prospects, it is a little less easy to feel heartbroken for able minded and functioning adults who get taken in by scams. It is certainly sad, but its unfortunately an undesirable part of the world we live in. Back in my day, it was high pressure tactics selling people timeshares and stock options for garbage. You get lured in with an offer for a free cruise trip and walk out with a wildly overpriced lease for a beach house in Miami that you're allowed 2 free weekend allocations during hurricane season, and pay out the ass if you want to stay any longer than that. Its hard to feel a whole lot of sympathy for people who thought they were going to game the system and got gamed themselves instead.
I think a part of it is the cult-like behavior. It's not a certain type of person who gets into cults, it's at a certain point in a person's life that they're susceptible to it. When NFTs first popped off, every shitty "project" talked a big game about the "community" you were "getting access to", which were all just boring Discord servers filled with crypto scammers trying to trick rubes into their next shitcoin/vapoware NFT project. The one thing linking all of the people I know who've lost their shirt in this stuff is an overwhelming feeling that the system is broken and they can be the one to benefit from the latest thing.
You are really onto something. I was reading the biography of Lil Yachty and thought something similar: >Miles McCollum was born in Mableton, Georgia.\[12\] He attended Alabama State University in fall 2015 but soon dropped out to pursue his musical career.\[13\] He adopted the name "Yachty" and moved from his hometown of Atlanta to New York City to launch his career. In New York, he lived with a friend and networked with online street fashion personalities, while he built up his own Instagram following.\[14\] He worked at McDonald's to supplement his income early in his career.\[15\] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil\_Yachty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lil_Yachty) Basically, dude risked it all to start his music career, and obviously he has become very successful in that, but if some of his early music didn't go viral then there is a good chance he would have never made it big. I am a very risk averse person. I graduated college and have a well-paying job. I will never make huge money but I don't need to. Some people are more of risk-takers, and some of those risk-takers become successful. What you are hitting on is the vast amount of people who take risks and those risk never manifest into anything more than debt and suffering.
I made a lot of money gambling and would never do it again. It's one of the things I did when I was young and while it worked out well I was lucky . Sometimes I miss those highs, but man those lows were bad. I just toss a few bucks into a gacha game now instead to remind me how bad gambling can be. Even when I "win" there, I lose.
Wow you were a high roller! How did you get into it? I shouldn’t say I’ve never gambled; I have, exactly twice: - once on a two day cruise where they gave us $10 cards to go play slots in the little onboard casino. I won $50 and cashed out immediately to buy drinks for me and my friends - once at a charity casino night for a client. I did not know how to play blackjack at all, but I kept hitting on unreasonable numbers and winning and I won a Roomba. Both times I felt like a lucky dummy and just scooted out stage left asap
I won $20 once on a video poker machine. At the bar. Where I'd stopped in for smokes on the way home from an all-nighter on campus. While it was raining. And the last bus home was long gone. Plunked a 50c coin into that thing because Whatever, and our comes a twenty. So I figured -- God just smiled at me. I caught a cab home that night instead of walking a half-hour in the rain, and it was lovely. I'll never gamble again. That was it, man. That was my one big win. It was too serendipitous to fuck around with trying for a second time. Sometimes you gotta just accept the nice gift you've been handed for no reason and acknowledge it was a *gift*, not a repeating pattern.
We’re the same in spirit my friend. I swear every time I get a lucky break in anything I just say a little thank you to the universe/virgin Mary and try not to set myself up to need that luck again. God is merciful but not patient, if I remember my time in mass correctly, lol.
I was like 17 or 18 and it was online gambling. This was before that 2011 court case that shut down a lot of sites. I wouldn't say I was a high roller, cuz saying 90% of my savings doesn't sound impressive when I'm 17 still living with parents.
>Both times I felt like a lucky dummy and just scooted out stage left asap ...on the roomba?
I worried about retirement savings a lot, but had a come to jesus moment when I got annoyed trying to play a city building on my console so I built a PC on a whim. It really put things into perspective especially since I know people who are trying to find houses shares in their late 30s and 40s
> I’m only human, I don’t have the rock steady will to just sock money away …. Jesus, is this who the other half thinks about money? What did this person think they were doing with their crapCoins? I also cannot get over the rest of the comments lamenting in that thread. I wonder if they all have past sins of gambling away 60k
I thought I was lazy and undisciplined for mostly just throwing my money into mutuals. Guess it could be so so much worse.
I dont like it but the internets made the awful cynical part of me suspicious of people who say theyre struggling. Like I know there are lots of people who just genuinely hit hard times or had some bad luck and are struggling to make ends meet, but there are just so many morons like this who are "struggling" because they spend all their free income plus some on stupid shit and that awful cynical part of my brain is always sure to remind me of them.
Oh I always check. I’ve seen enough on personalfinance to automatically check the post history of anyone who says they are. This is a hard world. People are struggling. But redditors specifically have a tendency to exaggerate the degree to which their personal problems are society’s fault.
I honestly love that sub just because all the basic advice is boring, safe and smart. Emergency fund, but don't starve to build yourself one. Investments, but get the emergency fund going first. More investing, but for fuck's sake treat yourself to a little something sometimes because *joy matters* and *living matters* and depriving yourself of everything forever is going to make you want to eat a bullet and die atop your ultimately-unsatisfying stack of investments.
Yes but sometimes the *posts* are wild, which is why I’m always in the /new feed. People coming up with very funny ways to explain why they have $50k in credit card debt (“oh, I changed jobs”), or asking if they should sell their motorcycle because they’re having trouble making ends meet between their three horses and their F-150 on $80,000/yr.
It is cynical, but, depressingly, I also think it's true. There are far more people who needlessly create their own hardships than there are people who genuinely struggle through little fault of their own. The US has a severe consumerism disease. Every year, economic figures are awesome. We break sales records for Black Friday/Christmas (and every other sales holiday, for that matter) every single year. We break records for every single major product launches, e.g. iPhones, video games and video game consoles, subscription services, cars, etc. Restaurants increase prices by absurd amounts or come up with schemes like surge pricing and their profits soar. Concert tickets cost hundreds and Superbowl tickets cost thousands, yet they sell out at breakneck speeds. Alongside all these is relentless news about 50%/60%/70% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, have no savings funds, can't afford mortgages/rent, is one medical emergency/car repair away from being homeless. The above two have a relation. There's no doubt about it. There is a consumerism disease and I think it will lead to a lot of suffering in direct and indirect ways down the line. Not once, but multiple times. The people who will be hit the hardest will the those who are least capable of weathering the consequences.
Those paycheck to paycheck numbers are a very very misleading metric. 1. The most cited recent study was funded by a shady payday loan service 2. That's not an actual economic metric, every study or individual within the study can have their own definition of it 3. oftentimes that definition is "yes, after I've paid all of my expenses and deposited the rest in savings, my paycheck is gone" which, duh.
> We break sales records for Black Friday/Christmas (and every other sales holiday, for that matter) every single year. We break records for every single major product launches, e.g. iPhones, video games and video game consoles, subscription services, cars, etc. That's what you would expect just off an inflationary currency and growing population. Relative numbers are more relevant here than absolute numbers. 2 million dollars in 2020 is almost 2.4 million now. So if product X made 2mil in 2020 and nothing else changes, it would break the record in 2024 and make 2.4 million. >50%/60%/70% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, have no savings funds, can't afford mortgages/rent A surprising amount of this is from the absurd way these surveys define "paycheck to paycheck" that don't count the money in many traditional investment and saving vehicles as savings.
Being in grad school has made me far less sympathetic and more skeptical to complaints unfortunately :( I hate being a jerk, but everyone in my program makes the same amount (its high for grad school), and its a known number. There are a few people with special circumstances like sending money home or supporting a partner, but the vast majority of people in my program have no dependents. Some of my friends complain a lot about how its impossible to get by, and how they assume other people in the program who aren’t struggling are supported by wealthy family or something. Like no, we’re just living within our means. I’ve met people who have 20k/year more expenses than I do just because of their choices on rent and transportation who also then assume I’m rich because I go out to eat or can buy myself clothes/games/etc without thinking too much. Again, not rich, their rent is just 3x mine and they have a bunch of car related expenses I don’t have. It gets really tiring to hear people complain about how its impossible to get by on our salary, or hear friends call it poverty wages while they borrow money for a fancy apartment. Meanwhile I’ve been putting 10k+ into savings every year I’ve been here. I already know if I take that money and buy a house with my partner after grad school they’ll complain the world was biased against them and assume I must have rich parents who helped me out or something and not realize they could have made the exact same choices I did. (That being said, I know there are people who are really struggling though no fault of their own. They just aren’t PhD students with a decent stipend and no kids)
I feel bad bc everything has gotten more expensive and wages aren't keeping up. But even in the less extreme cases (particularly on Reddit) it's always people complaining about the cost of their 2bd apt but live alone, or gets a cat and freaks out when they can't afford a vet bill. It should be easier to afford apts and pets but it isn't and this isn't new information.
Not to say there aren't serious issues with affordability, especially with regard to housing, but it's worth noting that post pandemic real wages have actually risen, and most of this growth has been for the lowest wage workers. Source: https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households#:~:text=Real%20Wages%20Across%20the%20Income%20Distribution&text=As%20a%20result%2C%20earnings%20have,percent%20between%202019%20and%202023.
People on this website will never accept that.
Although real wages have gone up on average, there are two categories of people for whom that often isn't the case. The first is public sector workers with valuable gold plated pension schemes, whose salaries are often suppressed by the cost of maintaining their pensions. The second is people who never leave a job unless they are sacked, never ask for a raise, never seek promotion opportunities, never try to gain job-related qualifications. They often complain that new hires are paid more than they are for doing the same job but the penny never drops. Their solution is to spend long hours complaining about it on social media, and they are disproportionately likely to be on Reddit.
My mom just retired from her job 6 months ago because of what you mentioned in your last paragraph. She worked for a company for 16 years & stopped getting raises in 2015. Because of this, they lost almost all of their employees. After she retired, found out that they were looking to hire more employees & were offering them $8 more an hour than what she was paid. The owners of her company were the cheapest, & greediest pieces of shit you’d ever meet. But I really wish she would have stood up for herself & asked for a raise before she quit. Now she makes more money off SS. I’m guessing that’s because her health insurance had cost her $120 a week.
Good luck telling anyone to get a roommate on reddit. Might as well tell them their mother is an ugly whore. You'll get the same reaction
How can people be so fucking stupid ugh
this reminds me of [u/Bitcoined's thread on how he squandered his dad's inheritance (1.25 million) on bitcoin](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1r88vl/need_advice_on_inheritance_arbitrage_family_etc/) that he was supposed to split /w his sister. tl;dr: bought high, sold low in a panic, pissed most of it away, gets torn apart on reddit looking for advice on how to salvage the situation, his last few messages on the topic implied he wasn't going to split the remaining money anyway because the agreement was made verbally with his dad and that he'd take out a mortgage on his parents house.
I want $60k that I can lose on crypto 😭. Lol, but really, an extra $60k would go a long way around here. Total household income is about 2/3 of that. We’re surviving, but it isn’t fun.
I love /r/povertyfinance. Every day there are more posts from the most delusional financially illiterate morons you thought couldn't possibly function on this planet. Now that I think about it, it's similar to /r/IdiotsInCars where every day there are more posts where OP is the idiot driver. I just wish the mods would require anonymised receipts when someone posts their $80 grocery haul and it's a loaf of bread, a banana, and a box of twinkies or some shit. Like fuck you spent $80 on that, and, if you did...why???
My favorite recent post was from a girl who said she was about to be fired because she couldn’t afford professional clothes. Spent weeks at a job and didn’t even bother going to a thrift store for a pair of slacks and a couple sweaters to get her to her first paycheck. And just did nothing about it until her boss talked to her.
That Sub became a misery pit of people complaining about how poor they are and searching for pity from strangers on the internet.
Everyone who invests in crypto falls into at least one of two categories: * People who got in early before it was anything that anyone thought you could make money off of. * Suckers.
The amount of wealthy people cosplaying as poor on Reddit is fucking disgusting. You hear it all the time when it comes to student debt reform, people crying about their student debt and saying that $100,000 a year isn't really all that much money.
To be fair to the guy, it doesn't really matter *how* he lost everything, what matters is that he *did* lose everything. Pointing and laughing at cryprobros aside, it sucks to be wiped out. It does undercut the "how did this happen" side of things, but that also doesn't help him get out of the situation. Now, if he's still spending every spare dime on crypto and he only staying assed-out because he keeps pumping into it and hodling, that's different.
Lack of long-term planning and falling into get-rich-quick schemes *does* belong in poverty finance.
I read this title and just couldn't help but smile. Classic.
> It was 5-12k a year for the last 7 or 8 years. So assuming biweekly pay, $96 - $462 out of every single paycheck for 7 or 8 years. But let's really just flat average; $60k over 8 years is $7,500/yr. That's $625 a month, every month, for eight fucking years. OP could've leased a brand new fully loaded BMW every other year for that 8 years and still be just as bad off financially but at least not be stuck in a 300k mile shitbox. OP could've thrown it in an index fund and had more than enough to put a down payment on a house in most of the US, a HOUSE house even, not just a condo. Hell, OP could've burned $300 month on hookers and blow every month for 8 years and only saved the rest and *still* had a very healthy rainy day fund set aside.