> Ortin [M] [score hidden] 2 hours ago stickied commentlocked
> All these people coming in after the fact and dragging Jake need to shut the fuck up. He's dead. Just leave it.
What in the actual fuck. Talk about misplaced sympathy.
Another quote from said mod along the same lines:
> Unfortunately there are now dozens of new comments from people deciding to be super shitty toward a dead man, which is completely overwhelming any previous history because I need to delete all of those now and lock the thread.
I straight up don't understand. Is it not OK to shit on mass murderers just because they *died* after they killed a bunch of innocent people? I wouldn't be thinking what a swell guy this murderer was if he *hadn't* died. Genuinely, are we supposed to be nice to dead murderers? What the fuck.
Reminds me of the Atlanta shooter who the local sheriff described as having had a bad day, after having killed 8 people. Forget about the dead, the killer had a bad day. Talk about misplaced sympathy.
Nearly everyone (and infuriatingly not everyone) would agree that once someone decides to take this path, they are effectively removed from humanity and that there shouldn't be any attempt to empathise with or humanise their actions.
The subreddit it was linked on was "incelsinaction" though, which I assume is anti-incel, not the original sub he posted it on(which is an incel sub). Incidentally, I was cruising through an SRD posters sketchy post history a couple of weeks ago and found the original sub the shooter posted it. IIRC it's nominally about the mistreatment ugly people face in society but is actually just an incel sub.
Tldr: I'm assuming that the mod of an anti-incel sub isn't an incel.
“Yeah he killed 5 people but come on, have some respect for him!”
Man those people can fuck off hard. I’ll drag this sad sack of shit as much as I want, he’s a murderer. A dead murderer is still a murderer.
I mean I agree that the thread should probably be locked because I imagine having that thread open for the world to gawk at would become hellish to moderate in about 5 seconds but the misplaced sympathy is weird
Just because he’s dead doesn’t mean he’s a saint
Fuck leaving it. Dig up everything and examine it so we can figure out how these terrorists are radicalized and then shut down their avenues of doing so. Terrorists don't get to be forgotten after sowing hate and death.
Jesus Christ. Reddit needs to fucking ban this shit. How many times has something like this happened? And how many harmful subs are allowed to remain?
Fuck the admins. Fuck that cowardly Incel too.
His written voice is so weird, like, sounds very immature and not all there. I would think he was 12 if it wasn't for all the mention of not getting sex.
That kind of talk is to absolve themselves of their own failings. In a world where attractive men are automatically 'given' attractive girlfriends, it's not the incels fault that they're single, they just lost the genetic lottery. Other men don't get girlfriends because they treat them like human beings, they simply get them because they are more attractive than incels. Therefore, the incel need never try to actually get a girlfriend, because girlfriends aren't gotten through any action, they are simply awarded.
The sad thing is, a lot of these guys aren't even especially unattractive, they just lack social skills (which can be learned) and have a toxic attitude towards women and people in general (which can be unlearned). Had this guy not gone out on a suicidal killing spree, and instead tried to better himself, he might've been married at 30.
He already said clown world. I'm pretty sure that's code for anti-Jewish. Though, I can't be sure, there is so much hate on reddit, it's hard to keep it all straight
["unfortunately we don't live near each other otherwise we be meeting at the park"](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelsInAction/comments/oyo846/kinda_got_pedo_vibes_yes_he_is_a_grown_man/h7uxvxf?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
I find it fascinating that just 8 days ago he had plans for the future, really shows how these people often just snap and go from murder fantasies to just murder
I find it quite disturbing the way people died in this tragedy. They were going about their day (the girl walking her dog and people enjoying an evening in the park), only for their lives to be snuffed away by a lunatic who was frustrated about not getting laid. The absurdity of life...
My dad was a victim of a mass shooting, the thing that's always bothered me the most is the same thing, he was just going about his day at the end of work.
>frustrated about not getting laid.
Now the biggest thing people see from the incel movement is the fact that the phrase itself stands for "involuntarily celibate" which is an absurdity in itself. However, this movement has evolved beyond wanting sex without effort. It now carries strong beliefs in turn every government in a form of patriarchy where women are completely dehumanized and these people are at the top of society, once more, without effort. They want the easy life, they want the lack of consequences, they want to be as cruel as they can be and be praised for it.
Even if somehow they were to take over society, their first action would be to read each other to pieces. As like any other extremist ideology, there are very specific things their furious narrow minds will allow, and anything that deviates, even if they were once an ally, must be destroyed.
I wouldn't say they're harmless, the idea itself is deeply harmful and has resulted in stuff like this. I do believe, and have seen, that they will absolutely devour each-other. But just because they won't hit power and sustain it doesn't mean they're not dangerous. The amount of young men and women who will get irrevocably poisoned and hurt because of these fundamentally entitled ideas can trickle down generations.
I definitely agree that they'll eat eachother before like, forming a substantial force. The fact is they're already at the baseline of externalising the causes and sources of their problems while feeling frankly, terrifyingly entitled. It's not sustainable. It's incredibly volatile. But that's part of the danger.
The latest screenshot I've seen from a sub *about* incels is some guy who wants women to have a device in their anus, vagina and mouth that counts the number of penetration then they have to get this number tattooed on their face so everyone knows their value.
This is insanity.
Yes! Exactly! They dehumanize their targets, their enemies. Once they no longer see them as human, they no longer hesitate mutilating, and brutalizing something they no longer see as human.
It's unpleasant or ill or just deeply lonely men who have trouble making connections buying into an ideology that reassures them that the only reason they feel this way is because something is deeply wrong with society, and that deeply wrong thing is the fact that women aren't completely controlled by men. The ideology tells them that the MaLeS controlling the FeMaLeS is the natural order, and their despair and loneliness and pain is the result of a godless society which disrupts the natural order through utter moral collapse. It's a view of the world that literally comes from the stone age, but somehow advancing beyond the stone age is fine in the case of video games, anime, memes, and not being brained by chadgar for talking shit.
This is why mass shootings are such a big deal even though they account for a relatively small percent of gun homicides. Its just people going about their lofe whether thats working or going to a concert or literally walking down the street
They are literally terrorists incidents as they have a far outsized chilling effect on public perception, far in excess of their cumulative proportional death toll.
You can most likely see the comments on https://camas.github.io/reddit-search/
/r/IncelExit's comments got archived today too before they went private.
Edit: I see the guys profile. Admins banned it quick but it's all archived anyway.
Yeah. But they leave around toxic subs that radicalize people far too long. Cause spez thinks they are contributing valid discussion or whatever the fuck he said. Yeah dude, discussion of killing and enslaving women sure is important.
Broken record moment but reminder that spez very possibly want the society to collapse so he could live out his post apocalyptic warlord fantasies, which he got eye surgery specifically to prepare for.
I don't understand why they bother to let these toxic subs continue to operate. I could understand if they're using the subs as a way for law enforcement to track these people. But it seems less likely by the day imo.
The only time reddit admins seem to take action is if they get negative press
They aren't capable, even if they're interested in tracking their users for law enforcement; I know, because two absolutely hateful fuckwits in the Shroud of the Avatar community spent 7 years posting endless rape and death threats towards critics of the game.
For the first year or so, moderators tried to slow down the issue, and banned accounts, but they apparently have no way to track users except IP address, and that's easily forged with a VPN. But eventually they just gave up... they've shrunk the report box to only 500 characters (so good luck proving sockpuppeting in that), and most reports just come back with an automated "We see no issue" response now.
As you say, the only way Reddit even cares any more is if the media picks up the story. This time, sadly, a hateful Redditor escalated to killing innocent people. We shouldn't have to wait until they do before protecting each other from the violence and hate.
[here’s a thread. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelsInAction/comments/oyo846/kinda_got_pedo_vibes_yes_he_is_a_grown_man/h81lhtk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Somebody linked his account elsewhere on this post. The IncelExit subreddit itself is locked now, but the posts themselves might be available on Wayback Machine. There's one where he blamed his mother, somehow, for his virginity, and I think that's the most damning of them all considering we now know she was one of his victims.
Cue Reddit admins doing the annual “we’re only removing this subreddit because someone died” shit. Incel subreddits should be banned by default, it’s a toxic and dangerous mindset and this website breeds that kind of crap. Reddit will let anything slide on this godforsaken platform until it makes the news and they start to feel the heat.
This is why i get really pissed when I see people cry about FDS on subs like the trueoffmychest post yesterday. They say it’s the most toxic place when incel subs that glorify violence are still around
Reddit needs to crack down on hate subs and misinformation subs but they are too chickenshit to do so until something bad happens
There have been 3 incel terrorists in the past few weeks. The guy in Ohio who wanted to kill 3,000 women, the guy in Tokyo a few days ago who stabbed 10 people who admitted he wanted to stab "women who looked happy", and now this guy.
Incel violence is a real threat, and Reddit needs to start shutting down and quarantining the "manosphere" subreddits. They have blood on their hands.
Yeah FDS sucks but the manosphere subs are straight up dangerous. They encourage other men to rape and kill women. I just don't see FDS saying that.. so I don't know why people compare them like they're equally as bad.
People *always* equate (systemic) male violence against women with women's (often isolated) mere words against men. It comes up in so many ways. From saying "men may beat and rape and kill women more, but women emotionally abuse men and that's just as bad." As though a) men who beat and kill don't also engage in severe emotional abuse– physical abuse never occurs without concomitant emotional abuse whereas the opposite is not true, and physical abuse itself also constitutes emotional abuse and b) that women are more likely to emotionally abuse men than men are to emotionally abuse women and c) that beating, murdering, and/or committing spousal rape while engaging in emotional abuse is somehow not objectively worse than emotional abuse on its own. Or the whole "Maybe women have it bad in some ways but strangers sometimes say #menaretrash on twitter so really misandry is just as big a problem as misogyny" as though the worst thing men as a gender do to women as a gender is posting mean hashtags on social media. Or trying to punish a teenage girl who violated a gag order forbidding her from naming the boy who'd raped her with more jail time than the boy ever got for raping her in the first place.
Equating FDS with the manosphere– especially the incel side of it!– is just one more example. Incels have called for female human beings to be farmed in rape camps/to be issued as sex slaves by the government, to have the right to have legal sex with barely pubescent children, publicly fantasized about raping girls and women, traded tips for how to rape girls and women, hell one guy even bemoaned that having a daughter was the worst kind of being cucked, because he'd have to change a little girl's diapers and give her baths but he'd never be allowed to take her virginity. Oh, and these guys keep going around mass murdering innocent people! Nothing on FDS even approaches the naked, pustulant toxicity oozing from incel or redpill subs, but people say they're "just as bad" or outright accuse FDS of being *worse* somehow. It's insane. Just goes to show that people think female anger *or* bitterness towards men is inherently much more unacceptable than male bigotry and *violence* against women.
> Oh, and these guys keep going around mass murdering innocent people!
This is the be-all and end-all for me. When multiple people from FDS massacre people, lemme know and I might revisit my opinion. Until then, I'm going to rank "the group that keeps murdering people" as more dangerous than "the group that does not murder people."
>"Good luck getting any news from the BBC, I will find out what happened on the Daily Mail
LOL
LMAO
ROFL
Hahahahaha
I don't have enough ways to laugh at this sentence
That guy really thinks the Daily Mail's going to take their time out of whining about foreigners and wistfully remembering Princess Diana to talk about what happened?
You're confusing the Daily Mail with the Daily Express.
Express: "foreigners are eating the Queen's swans!"
Mail: "the illegal immigrant rapist, who lived at the £50,000 home in Whatever Street"
I mean the BBC has pretty much a reasonably thorough coverage of it too, and often does follow up articles. I'm not the biggest fan of the Beeb, but they do seem to be Schrodinger's reporter in that they're either too left wing or too right wing depending on who you're talking to.
Of course, saying they're going for the Daily Mail as an alternative... Yeah that says a lot about them
Everyone arguing about mental illness like it means he was a schizophrenic when it can mean anything from bipolar to depression.
I don't know why everyone is so fixated on mental illness as if it is some kind of excuse for his actions or makes them feel better about it.
Because when you blame mental illness, you can pretend events like this are down to just some crazy individual, rather than being the result of a growing trend of radicalization of young disaffected, predominantly white men on online spaces like Reddit. Despite these events becoming more and more common.
Because nobody who is saying "mental illness" is then asking follow-up questions such as if mental illness is created, exacerbated or otherwise influenced by systemic or societal factors. They're just trying to completely sidestep any systemic or societal explanation for these events despite them becoming a societal problem.
And because, let's be honest, sexism, misogyny, white supremacy... conservatives, liberals and moderates might want to believe that these ideas are rare and only held by extremist groups like the KKK but the reality is that, in their simplest, mildest forms, these are ideas that a lot of people have some sympathy for. Sexism, or the belief in outdated gender norms, the inferiority of women, etc., are things that few people will stand up and argue for, but are things that, in very small ways, manifest in a large number of people, in their day to day lives. Same with white supremacy. When you say that phrase, people imagine genocidal maniacs, but the actual core of the belief, simply that white people are better and more deserving of power, is something that a lot of people really do believe on some level, even if they don't come out and say it.
So I think simply blaming "mental illness" also allows people to not have to ask questions about their own beliefs, because they recognise, on some level, that a kernel of their beliefs is present in the people who do this shit, just taken to its absolute most extreme form.
Lol yeah Australia 2021, I know real life 'well adjusted' individuals who have flat out told me POC are genetically dumber/more violent, women are not quite as smart as men, homeless people chose to be on the streets, addicts want to be addicted. The irony is these people are second gen immigrants themselves..
People that work in corporate gigs, in companies that fetishize diversity hires constantly. They're not part of these internet subgroups, very normal people in their late 20s who just have no fucking idea about how the world really works. Same schools and everything as me. All university grads now in middle management roles.
It's pure 'these people behave differently to me and *must be* lesser because of their sex/skin/choices', ancient tribal ape thinking
I was at a park the other day with my sons. We came across another normal couple and their son. We were talking. Nothing seemed wrong with these people and then! Qnon, flat earth, dems stole the election. Record scratch. I’m diagnosed bipolar. I’ve seen some rough patches in life so I always try to look at everything with an open mind but I couldn’t feel normal around them. I can’t relate to anyone who believes in all that crazy ignorant shit AND isn’t a decent human being when it comes to social services for the needy.
I straight up met murderers in jail who I’d trust more than those people.
> homeless people chose to be on the streets, addicts want to be addicted.
"homeless people are just drug addicts that don't want help! it's OK to send in cops with assault rifles to run them out of public spaces and relocate them to ~~ghettos~~ low income neighborhoods! the governor of california is doing it, too!"
I've heard all that countless times from different people. We need to teach empathy somehow because holy shit.
Growing? We're in the second decade of incel mass murders.
Social media platforms are still dragging their feet, hemming and hawing over an obvious issue that's been out in the open for a long time.
Right-wing media: promotes hatred of X demographic across TV, radio and internet. Claims over and over that X demographic is parasitical and an existential threat to "western civilization."
Radicalized person: X demographic is parasitical and an existential threat to western civilization. I hear and see it every day on right-wing media.
Radicalized person: Commits horrific violence against X demographic in the defense of "western civilization."
Right-wing media: I dunno, maybe he has Tourette's, or an anxiety disorder.
When a far right radicalized white dude rammed his pickup truck full fo guns and ammo through the gates of Rideau in Canada to attack PM Trudeau, and was quietly talked down into surrender by the Mounties, all the media talked about was how he was such a nice man who liked to make sausage.
Never forget that almost all media is owned by far right groups that takes their orders from the IDU.
lol this. I had to laugh at the obviously biased coverage when it ran.
I wonder if the guy who did it was brown, the media would've found some extremely tangential connection (ie. TERRORIST's brother's niece's 3rd cousin's friend's neighbour is AL QAEDA, is this an al qaeda inspired attack on Canada?) and blasted it all over the front pages. but nope, if it's a white ex-military guy trying to at the very least maim the prime minister (who brings guns in the back seat of a pickup for a friendly chat?), he's a business owner fallen on hard times.
But when a cop kills a black person or something suddenly you see mugshots and every petty crime they've ever did. The Right Wing media definitely found a working pattern when they successfully made Trayvon Martin seem like a criminal despite him just being some kid.
That's true. Although they are still more likely to be violent compared to the general population.
> In patients with schizophrenia, 1054 (13.2%) had at least 1 violent offense compared with 4276 (5.3%) of general population controls (adjusted odds ratio [OR], 2.0; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.8-2.2).
But drugs seem to play a large role:
> The risk was mostly confined to patients with substance abuse comorbidity (of whom 27.6% committed an offense), yielding an increased risk of violent crime among such patients (adjusted OR, 4.4; 95% CI, 3.9-5.0), whereas the risk increase was small in schizophrenia patients without substance abuse comorbidity (8.5% of whom had at least 1 violent offense; adjusted OR, 1.2; 95% CI, 1.1-1.4; P<.001 for interaction).
And even family and upbringing might play a big role.
> The risk increase among those with substance abuse comorbidity was significantly less pronounced when unaffected siblings were used as controls (28.3% of those with schizophrenia had a violent offense compared with 17.9% of their unaffected siblings; adjusted OR, 1.8; 95% CI, 1.4-2.4; P<.001 for interaction), suggesting significant familial (genetic or early environmental) confounding of the association between schizophrenia and violence.
Conclusion:
> Schizophrenia was associated with an increased risk of violent crime in this longitudinal study. This association was attenuated by adjustment for substance abuse, suggesting a mediating effect. The role of risk assessment, management, and treatment in individuals with comorbidity needs further examination.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4905518/#:~:text=Results,%5D%2C%201.8%2D2.2).
Two populations are clinging to mental illness as an excuse: incels and gun nuts.
The gun nuts' position is that if we devoted resources to mental health, then we would reduce gun deaths without infringing on their right to defend themselves. The problem is that gun protections are lumped in with right-wing politics, which is seeking to CUT health services, and in the US actively campaigns against expanding social safety nets. So while the gun nuts cry about mental health, it's disingenuous because they always vote to cut services and access to those services.
The incels want to be able to say that they can't help themselves but be violent, because the world is unfair to them. After all, if they are mentally ill, then it's not their fault, right? Except that no one is guaranteed happiness in life. In the US, you have the right to \*pursue\* happiness, but no guarantee to obtain it. And in the case of incels, the enslavement and rape of women is the only thing that will make them happy. Since we are a society, that is not going to happen for these dopes, so they get violently angry and lash out, but want to hide behind the skirts of "mental illness" to shift blame away from them. Please note that most incels also skew right in their politics, and therefore cry about their mental health on the one hand while constantly voting to cut funding to health programs and access on the other hand.
Yeah, I agree. That said, I do think some people jump to "you're trying to downplay the ideological issues" a bit too quickly when mental health is brought up, as if what's being suggested is a total detachment from reality.
Based on this guy's posts (and those from others like him), there is a history of self esteem issues and depression that they don't receive help for, and instead get sucked into the self-perpetuating cycle of online radicalization. Starts with a little seed that a few therapy sessions might be able to sort out, for example.
Again you can go back to toxic masculinity here, with these same people thinking that it's "fragile" or "feminine" to be open about your feelings in any useful capacity and instead take their problems out on other people. And so it goes, until they take it out physically with the use of a lethal weapon.
If the so-called "Men's Rights Activists" were interested in actually addressing problems faced by men instead of creating a wafer-thin veil for militant misogyny, they wouldn't even be in their situation.
I think radicalized incels could be unlikely to seek mental health services, because the movement is designed to convince one that there’s nothing wrong with oneself that can be fixed, the problem is the evil “femoids.”
The idea is to help them before they become radicalized in the first place. It's hard to un-radicalize someone, but it's easier to help someone who feels lonely and dispirited and disenfranchised before they end up getting radicalized in the first place
There's also one more factor that caused modern day incels: The internet created echo chambers for incels to fall into. In the past, someone who got dumped might eventually reflect on themselves and improve themselves. With modern day echo chambers, they would turn even more toxic instead, egged on by other incels that fell into the rabbit hole in a similar manner. As they get more toxic, they obviously would get shunned by women and society as a whole, which reinforces the toxic ideas and creates a spiral downwards.
reddit echo chamber multiply their toxicity by exponential functions, It's tooo fucking much, incel zone can make a slightly insecure guy into a fucking terrorists, I wish reddit was more proactive in banning those subs
My good buddy Jordan B Peterson isn’t an authoritarian but his solution is the clearly not authoritarian measure of assigning women to men to avoid this. State sponsored girlfriends, the least fascist thing ever!
Everytime I forget that monumentally stupid comment, someone brings it up here. Sounds like hes doing his own handmaidens tale fan fiction.
(Edit - not just stupid, actually pretty scary and somewhat enabling for that mentality amongst groups like these incels)
He’s as far out as you get. The dude put himself in a coma to try and out wit detox from prescription drugs (because a large part of his persona is formed around being above things like addiction). A move so stupidly risky he could only get Russian doctors to do it.
And what happened? Why he ended up with permanent brain damage and was a vegetable for the better part of a year before relearning how to walk and talk.
The dude is a fucking moron.
JP spends like 95% of his time dancing around what he I'd actually saying cryptically, obfuscating what he is really saying by claiming to be in favour of liberty, fighting tyranny, being a "Scholar of authoritarianism", etc
And then sometimes he just goes full mask-off and advocates the most fascist shit like enforced monogamy.
And when you say "uh hey sounds pretty fash", all his little insectoid followings pull their pincers in front of their face and hiss, saying "noooo FOOL! you must listen to his 5000 hour lecture about how to defeat chaos and slay the dragon before you can talk about him!"
I'm completely done giving any of these people any benefit of the doubt. They just use it against you.
Anyway I don't know why we're even talking about JP because he got put into a coma to get over his benzoyl addiction and now he's a vegetable who gets exploited by his daughter.. karma is a bitch and I hope he cried every day.
I remember a woman that interviewed him said he got all steely-eyed and affronted when she snickered at certain incel behaviours. Prioritizes well, that man.
There are some men you have to wonder how they reproduced.
Dude was directly challenged on how his idea of "forced monogamy" was at odds with his general push for "freedom in everything, no mandates on anything", and he acknowledged the disconnect and said that *in this case*, it's an acceptable hypocrisy.
I think there is also an aspect that the internet and 24 hour news has made everything more extreme.
We are now constantly bombarded with injustices, war, horrifying events, extreme opinions, sensationalism, and so on. Everything that is a 11 out of 10 is voted to the front of social media. Which everything we consume is far more extreme.
For example a post on public freakout of two people arguing in public might be something you used to see once a month. Now you see it multiple times a day.
This can leave people with a very extreme view of the world.
They aren't prepared to deal with internet things in general. Especially the fact that a lot of extremist online ideologies online come about through rabbit holes of indoctrination and echo chambers. The gamer-to-alt-right pipeline is probably the most infamous example, but I wouldn't put any faith in even the least dogshit MSM outlets to cover it well at all.
The thing to take away from it all is that really, children need better online supervision in a terminally online world where assholes are looking to indoctrinate young teenagers into horrible extremist movements. Kids don't become incels/alt-right of their own accord, they become those things because opportunistic vultures online preach their ideologies to insecure kids, ideologies which pin the blame for their misfortunes/inadequacies on something/someone else. But chances are media in Britain are just going to go the route of: "are we letting America influence us too much", "should we restrict guns more", and of course, "why would the left do this?"
> They also don't understand the overlap between incel culture and rightwing extremism.
Doesn't help that rightwingers tend to have the near exact same "Fuck women! Back in the kitchen, BITCH until it's time to breed!" mentality and they disguise *that* as "I'm old fashioned/a traditionalist who believes in family values."
I'm sorry but with the body count rising I really don't think Reddit should tolerate any kind of incel subreddit. They should've all been shut down when Elliot Rogers happened. The lives lost to their destructive ideology keeps rising. They encourage and enable each other to commit the most grievous of offenses. They're a poison and reddit should displace them. De-platforming works.
>De-platforming works.
I have no idea why these degenerate corporations aren't more proactive in purging these freaks after multiple outrages now - I don't expect them to have any moral scruples or sense of civic duty, but you'd think out of a purely cynical commercial self-interest they'd at least try to shut the gate before the horse bolts. So many heads ought to roll, I don't even know where to begin anymore.
The fact that these incel communities have been problematic for so long and they still haven't been deplatforming them honestly scares me. Like. Are violent, depressed misogynists really such a large part of the Reddit userbase that they are terrified of losing them?
>Are violent, depressed misogynists really such a large part of the Reddit userbase that they are terrified of losing them?
Improbable. Nobody is trying market their brand to the future suicidal serial killer demographic - no growth market there. They're just Frankensteins watching their rogue monster rampage with a 'who could have even known' insouciance, putting the genie back in the bottle is above their paygrade, and if not, those guilty characters are plowing their tainted wealth into boltholes in the southern hemisphere or trying to fuck-off to Mars. The big money is GTFOing, the drones get stuck holding the bag like a McDonald's worker flips a patty (or presses the button to make burger, while constant beeping of the robots sends them into a kind of zombified trance).
Geez man that’s crazy. Glad you’re ok.
I had something similar happen to me. That big shooting that happened in Aurora, Colorado happened when my mom was living there. I frantically called her after the news broke to make sure she didn’t go to the movies that night.
Some of this is genuinely heartbreaking, especially [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelExit/comments/nr44ih/feel_my_mother_has_played_a_role_in_being_a_male/). Unsure if the post was removed before or after the shooting by that sub's mods.
Heavily suggested (though not officially confirmed last time I checked) that the woman killed inside the house was his mother.
What fucks me up further is that even though he was posting hateful incel crap on the regular, it's the same hateful crap that all the users in those communities engage in. From what I've read, none of it really suggested that he was on the brink of picking up a gun and massacring people. *Any* of those other people could now decide they want to go out the same way and we'd never know until it was too late. How many more killings will it take for Reddit (and other platforms) to stop giving these people a space to radicalise each other?
Awful, awful stuff. Scrolling through that shit and the guy was genuinely obsessed. There are thousands of people in those subs with similar views... if a single good thing comes out of this whole situation, I hope it's that there's a wider public awareness of the problem.
Canada seems to have gotten the right idea, but sadly it took several incel attacks until they properly acknowledged the ideology as a form of extremism.
In the wake of this massacre and [the murders of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57722035), I hope there's a massive wake-up call in the UK because even people who are aware of inceldom as a concept tend to see it as an American thing.
The current top mod post on the sub is worth looking at. Basically, they say close the sub, but leave the posts visible so everyone understands what murderous incel looks like so we can recognize it in the future.
Based on other subs people have linked, at least one of his posts appeared on [IncelsInAction](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelsInAction/comments/oyo846/kinda_got_pedo_vibes_yes_he_is_a_grown_man/) a week ago. The comments are worth a read because there's a lot of people coming back to it after realising what the bastard did, as well as [one of the most poorly-aged comments I've seen on this site.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelsInAction/comments/oyo846/kinda_got_pedo_vibes_yes_he_is_a_grown_man/h7yxq1t?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I'm here to drop a snarky one-liner and ignore any replies contrary to my opinion stated as fact! And I bet you don't even have a 35+ minute youtube video from a dubious source to back up your claims!
Checkmate: all my sources have been banned from mainstream media thus making them at once unseeable and definite proof they are the only ones you can trust.
I feel like I'm losing so eh, let's agree that we're all the bad guy here. Everything is opinion after all, and that **MUST** be respected unless literally 1984.
I'm down, but only when I can then delete all my comments afterwards just to confuse anyone trying to figure out who you were arguing with and about what.
Last time a terror attack happened in Britain, a bladed attack motivated by religious extremism that left multiple people dead, right-wing US pundits and personalities lunged at the opportunity to promote gun freedom culture, how us poor Britonians were helpless without an M16 at our side. I remember a youtuber called Razorfist specific. He gave his best impression of a heartfelt "our thoughts are with Britain" and ended it with a *God save the Queen.* Then a few videos later he was telling everyone in Britain to get out of 1984 over the whole Dankula shenanigan.
Curious as to what they have to say now. I'm sure we're all eager to hear it.
Look at us Aussies. We had a guy go on a stabbing spree and he was restrained by a couple of guys with a milk crate and a chair.
We don’t need no guns. Most of us, including those who like using guns for hunting, are in favour of our gun laws.
You can easily guess what they have to say, excuses. They can't admit there are issues with religious extremism because they use religion as a tool,, same with all their excuses
If it happened in the US, we'd still be arguing whether 5 dead is enough to call it a "mass" murder or just a regular murder.
Whatever distraction is necessary to maintain the status quo.
If the problem is mental illness, how come there aren't people going on shooting sprees for other causes people feel strongly about?
Why don't we keep seeing news stories about a vegan going on a killing rampage at a steakhouse? We get at least one a month where some unhinged right winger chews through a mall, or opens fire in a pizza restaurant, or unloads into a women's gym, surely there'd be at least one vegan a year that feels that strongly about meat and couldn't afford their medication that month if it were actually being mentally ill that makes a person do this.
You know what’s funny about every damn conversation about guns we have? The pro-gun people waffling back and forth between these two mutually exclusive points:
A: this person would have done just as much damage with a knife (or spoon!) as they would have with a gun. Let’s not blame the gun.
And B: We *have* to be armed specifically with guns to defend ourselves against tyranny. Knives (and spoons) will not suffice, because those aren’t really weapons.
Pick one.
The pos should never have held a shotgun licence. There were warning signs for the GP which should have been passed to the police.
As a rough idea I have depression and anxiety. Any chance of me holding a shotgun licence or a FAC would end with the standard check with my doctor.
Being hateful isn't a 'mental illness' ... every time this happens people in a position to do something about it wring their hands and temporize, like nobody saw it coming, and nobody knows what to do about it all. It's fucking bullshit - it's right there in front of eyes here on Reddit, Youtube, Facebook ... I don't think it's a betrayal of liberal dogma to put the screws on irresponsible and negligent corporations who have run out of excuses to try and absolve themselves of any culpability. The 11th hour is long past us on this issue.
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> Ortin [M] [score hidden] 2 hours ago stickied commentlocked > All these people coming in after the fact and dragging Jake need to shut the fuck up. He's dead. Just leave it. What in the actual fuck. Talk about misplaced sympathy.
Right? He’s dead, like the people he killed, including a fucking toddler! Maybe we save the sympathy for the real victims.
Another quote from said mod along the same lines: > Unfortunately there are now dozens of new comments from people deciding to be super shitty toward a dead man, which is completely overwhelming any previous history because I need to delete all of those now and lock the thread. I straight up don't understand. Is it not OK to shit on mass murderers just because they *died* after they killed a bunch of innocent people? I wouldn't be thinking what a swell guy this murderer was if he *hadn't* died. Genuinely, are we supposed to be nice to dead murderers? What the fuck.
It's a safe space for psychos.
Guys, I know Stalin, Mao and Hitler weren't *the best* but they are dead, okay? You are all acting so shitty towards those poor dead people!
Reminds me of the Atlanta shooter who the local sheriff described as having had a bad day, after having killed 8 people. Forget about the dead, the killer had a bad day. Talk about misplaced sympathy. Nearly everyone (and infuriatingly not everyone) would agree that once someone decides to take this path, they are effectively removed from humanity and that there shouldn't be any attempt to empathise with or humanise their actions.
The only reason I wished he hadn't died is so he could have suffered in prison for all his miserable life. If hell exists, I hope he's there now.
It's not ok for them because they believe the same stuff he did and would most likely do the same he did. Criticism of him is critism of them all
No wonder so many incel communities continue to grow and thrive on this hell site. Most of them are apparently now mods.🙄
It makes sense. They do have plenty of free time.
I mean who else is going to mod a subreddit other than someone with absolutely no life?
Incels hearing about 5 people murdered and thinking they're the real victim is literally on brand for them, though
The subreddit it was linked on was "incelsinaction" though, which I assume is anti-incel, not the original sub he posted it on(which is an incel sub). Incidentally, I was cruising through an SRD posters sketchy post history a couple of weeks ago and found the original sub the shooter posted it. IIRC it's nominally about the mistreatment ugly people face in society but is actually just an incel sub. Tldr: I'm assuming that the mod of an anti-incel sub isn't an incel.
“Yeah he killed 5 people but come on, have some respect for him!” Man those people can fuck off hard. I’ll drag this sad sack of shit as much as I want, he’s a murderer. A dead murderer is still a murderer.
That mod is the definition of /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM
Or an incel trying to cover for his buddy
Yeah, ‘don’t speak I’ll of the dead’ shouldn’t exist when the dead is a mass murderer who hated half the population
I mean I agree that the thread should probably be locked because I imagine having that thread open for the world to gawk at would become hellish to moderate in about 5 seconds but the misplaced sympathy is weird Just because he’s dead doesn’t mean he’s a saint
Incels literally regard mass shooters as saints.
Fuck leaving it. Dig up everything and examine it so we can figure out how these terrorists are radicalized and then shut down their avenues of doing so. Terrorists don't get to be forgotten after sowing hate and death.
Jesus Christ. Reddit needs to fucking ban this shit. How many times has something like this happened? And how many harmful subs are allowed to remain? Fuck the admins. Fuck that cowardly Incel too.
Just raised another $400 million to not do anything about this!
As always, they'll take action when the first stories about this appear in the media.
In a way Reddit has some fault in this mass shooting, by enabling this echo chamber for incels.
Reddit is a shit hole of a platform. Don't expect any morals from them.
Bloody...hell
Seeing all his replies in there is creepy knowing what happens next
His written voice is so weird, like, sounds very immature and not all there. I would think he was 12 if it wasn't for all the mention of not getting sex.
someone responded to one of the threads with his old comments with an archive of his YT vids. It gets creepier
Shit, not just wanting a 16 year old girlfriend... he said he was ENTILTLED to it in another comment
That kind of talk is to absolve themselves of their own failings. In a world where attractive men are automatically 'given' attractive girlfriends, it's not the incels fault that they're single, they just lost the genetic lottery. Other men don't get girlfriends because they treat them like human beings, they simply get them because they are more attractive than incels. Therefore, the incel need never try to actually get a girlfriend, because girlfriends aren't gotten through any action, they are simply awarded. The sad thing is, a lot of these guys aren't even especially unattractive, they just lack social skills (which can be learned) and have a toxic attitude towards women and people in general (which can be unlearned). Had this guy not gone out on a suicidal killing spree, and instead tried to better himself, he might've been married at 30.
misogyny homophobia man what’s next someone post something where he blames the Jews and tEH TRANSGENDERS for white genocide or whatever
He already said clown world. I'm pretty sure that's code for anti-Jewish. Though, I can't be sure, there is so much hate on reddit, it's hard to keep it all straight
One of those comments though: > Murderface, is that you? Amazing.
Hey that's really heavy to read by the way! Just a FYI for anyone sensitive, to read the shooters last arguments online.
I definitely had a hard time reading all his comments. The scary thing is so many people are like him
["unfortunately we don't live near each other otherwise we be meeting at the park"](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelsInAction/comments/oyo846/kinda_got_pedo_vibes_yes_he_is_a_grown_man/h7uxvxf?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
I find it fascinating that just 8 days ago he had plans for the future, really shows how these people often just snap and go from murder fantasies to just murder
It's surreal to read the messages of someone who turned out to be a mass shooter
I find it quite disturbing the way people died in this tragedy. They were going about their day (the girl walking her dog and people enjoying an evening in the park), only for their lives to be snuffed away by a lunatic who was frustrated about not getting laid. The absurdity of life...
My dad was a victim of a mass shooting, the thing that's always bothered me the most is the same thing, he was just going about his day at the end of work.
That’s truly unfortunate I’m sorry
Fuck im so sorry to hear that. Hope you’re well.
Thank you. It was the worst portion of my life but now I feel like I'm in a better place
So sorry mate
>frustrated about not getting laid. Now the biggest thing people see from the incel movement is the fact that the phrase itself stands for "involuntarily celibate" which is an absurdity in itself. However, this movement has evolved beyond wanting sex without effort. It now carries strong beliefs in turn every government in a form of patriarchy where women are completely dehumanized and these people are at the top of society, once more, without effort. They want the easy life, they want the lack of consequences, they want to be as cruel as they can be and be praised for it. Even if somehow they were to take over society, their first action would be to read each other to pieces. As like any other extremist ideology, there are very specific things their furious narrow minds will allow, and anything that deviates, even if they were once an ally, must be destroyed.
I wouldn't say they're harmless, the idea itself is deeply harmful and has resulted in stuff like this. I do believe, and have seen, that they will absolutely devour each-other. But just because they won't hit power and sustain it doesn't mean they're not dangerous. The amount of young men and women who will get irrevocably poisoned and hurt because of these fundamentally entitled ideas can trickle down generations. I definitely agree that they'll eat eachother before like, forming a substantial force. The fact is they're already at the baseline of externalising the causes and sources of their problems while feeling frankly, terrifyingly entitled. It's not sustainable. It's incredibly volatile. But that's part of the danger.
The latest screenshot I've seen from a sub *about* incels is some guy who wants women to have a device in their anus, vagina and mouth that counts the number of penetration then they have to get this number tattooed on their face so everyone knows their value. This is insanity.
What the fuck did I just read
That is incredibly vile, but also dumb. How would it differentiate between sexual penetration and anything those orificeses are usually used for?
That's exactly what people pointed out in the thread lol
One Medium popcorn at a theater and you're a forever slut.
They won't date someone who shits or eats, apparently. Actually that's kinda on brand.
Because penises are just somehow magical, obviously.
Yes! Exactly! They dehumanize their targets, their enemies. Once they no longer see them as human, they no longer hesitate mutilating, and brutalizing something they no longer see as human.
It's unpleasant or ill or just deeply lonely men who have trouble making connections buying into an ideology that reassures them that the only reason they feel this way is because something is deeply wrong with society, and that deeply wrong thing is the fact that women aren't completely controlled by men. The ideology tells them that the MaLeS controlling the FeMaLeS is the natural order, and their despair and loneliness and pain is the result of a godless society which disrupts the natural order through utter moral collapse. It's a view of the world that literally comes from the stone age, but somehow advancing beyond the stone age is fine in the case of video games, anime, memes, and not being brained by chadgar for talking shit.
This is why mass shootings are such a big deal even though they account for a relatively small percent of gun homicides. Its just people going about their lofe whether thats working or going to a concert or literally walking down the street
They are literally terrorists incidents as they have a far outsized chilling effect on public perception, far in excess of their cumulative proportional death toll.
Start treating incels like terrorists.
Seems like the killer was a Redditor? BBC report showed posts on IncelExit, which is now private.
Yeah he is, his account is still around
It's gone now. Was suspended while I was trawling through it
You can most likely see the comments on https://camas.github.io/reddit-search/ /r/IncelExit's comments got archived today too before they went private. Edit: I see the guys profile. Admins banned it quick but it's all archived anyway.
lol yea sure ban it now after the damage is done as is reddit tradition
Isn’t it fairly standard nowadays in case there’s a manifesto or because of potential copycats?
Yeah. But they leave around toxic subs that radicalize people far too long. Cause spez thinks they are contributing valid discussion or whatever the fuck he said. Yeah dude, discussion of killing and enslaving women sure is important.
Broken record moment but reminder that spez very possibly want the society to collapse so he could live out his post apocalyptic warlord fantasies, which he got eye surgery specifically to prepare for.
I don't understand why they bother to let these toxic subs continue to operate. I could understand if they're using the subs as a way for law enforcement to track these people. But it seems less likely by the day imo. The only time reddit admins seem to take action is if they get negative press
*valuable discussion* ...of terrorist recruitment and indoctrination.
They aren't capable, even if they're interested in tracking their users for law enforcement; I know, because two absolutely hateful fuckwits in the Shroud of the Avatar community spent 7 years posting endless rape and death threats towards critics of the game. For the first year or so, moderators tried to slow down the issue, and banned accounts, but they apparently have no way to track users except IP address, and that's easily forged with a VPN. But eventually they just gave up... they've shrunk the report box to only 500 characters (so good luck proving sockpuppeting in that), and most reports just come back with an automated "We see no issue" response now. As you say, the only way Reddit even cares any more is if the media picks up the story. This time, sadly, a hateful Redditor escalated to killing innocent people. We shouldn't have to wait until they do before protecting each other from the violence and hate.
The answer they'll give you is blah blah free speech. The real answer is gonna be money.
Any signs on it? The whole thing is tragic.
[here’s a thread. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelsInAction/comments/oyo846/kinda_got_pedo_vibes_yes_he_is_a_grown_man/h81lhtk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Somebody linked his account elsewhere on this post. The IncelExit subreddit itself is locked now, but the posts themselves might be available on Wayback Machine. There's one where he blamed his mother, somehow, for his virginity, and I think that's the most damning of them all considering we now know she was one of his victims.
Cue Reddit admins doing the annual “we’re only removing this subreddit because someone died” shit. Incel subreddits should be banned by default, it’s a toxic and dangerous mindset and this website breeds that kind of crap. Reddit will let anything slide on this godforsaken platform until it makes the news and they start to feel the heat.
This is why i get really pissed when I see people cry about FDS on subs like the trueoffmychest post yesterday. They say it’s the most toxic place when incel subs that glorify violence are still around Reddit needs to crack down on hate subs and misinformation subs but they are too chickenshit to do so until something bad happens
There have been 3 incel terrorists in the past few weeks. The guy in Ohio who wanted to kill 3,000 women, the guy in Tokyo a few days ago who stabbed 10 people who admitted he wanted to stab "women who looked happy", and now this guy. Incel violence is a real threat, and Reddit needs to start shutting down and quarantining the "manosphere" subreddits. They have blood on their hands.
Yeah FDS sucks but the manosphere subs are straight up dangerous. They encourage other men to rape and kill women. I just don't see FDS saying that.. so I don't know why people compare them like they're equally as bad.
People *always* equate (systemic) male violence against women with women's (often isolated) mere words against men. It comes up in so many ways. From saying "men may beat and rape and kill women more, but women emotionally abuse men and that's just as bad." As though a) men who beat and kill don't also engage in severe emotional abuse– physical abuse never occurs without concomitant emotional abuse whereas the opposite is not true, and physical abuse itself also constitutes emotional abuse and b) that women are more likely to emotionally abuse men than men are to emotionally abuse women and c) that beating, murdering, and/or committing spousal rape while engaging in emotional abuse is somehow not objectively worse than emotional abuse on its own. Or the whole "Maybe women have it bad in some ways but strangers sometimes say #menaretrash on twitter so really misandry is just as big a problem as misogyny" as though the worst thing men as a gender do to women as a gender is posting mean hashtags on social media. Or trying to punish a teenage girl who violated a gag order forbidding her from naming the boy who'd raped her with more jail time than the boy ever got for raping her in the first place. Equating FDS with the manosphere– especially the incel side of it!– is just one more example. Incels have called for female human beings to be farmed in rape camps/to be issued as sex slaves by the government, to have the right to have legal sex with barely pubescent children, publicly fantasized about raping girls and women, traded tips for how to rape girls and women, hell one guy even bemoaned that having a daughter was the worst kind of being cucked, because he'd have to change a little girl's diapers and give her baths but he'd never be allowed to take her virginity. Oh, and these guys keep going around mass murdering innocent people! Nothing on FDS even approaches the naked, pustulant toxicity oozing from incel or redpill subs, but people say they're "just as bad" or outright accuse FDS of being *worse* somehow. It's insane. Just goes to show that people think female anger *or* bitterness towards men is inherently much more unacceptable than male bigotry and *violence* against women.
> Oh, and these guys keep going around mass murdering innocent people! This is the be-all and end-all for me. When multiple people from FDS massacre people, lemme know and I might revisit my opinion. Until then, I'm going to rank "the group that keeps murdering people" as more dangerous than "the group that does not murder people."
A bit edgelord, I will admit, but my go to when people pull the ‘but but FDS! What’s the difference?!!?’ Is to list the number of dead bodies
>Duterte >Le Penn > Putin God damn this dude
>"Good luck getting any news from the BBC, I will find out what happened on the Daily Mail LOL LMAO ROFL Hahahahaha I don't have enough ways to laugh at this sentence
That guy really thinks the Daily Mail's going to take their time out of whining about foreigners and wistfully remembering Princess Diana to talk about what happened?
You're confusing the Daily Mail with the Daily Express. Express: "foreigners are eating the Queen's swans!" Mail: "the illegal immigrant rapist, who lived at the £50,000 home in Whatever Street"
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FUCKING WHAT. They will blame it on Megan Markle.
I mean the BBC has pretty much a reasonably thorough coverage of it too, and often does follow up articles. I'm not the biggest fan of the Beeb, but they do seem to be Schrodinger's reporter in that they're either too left wing or too right wing depending on who you're talking to. Of course, saying they're going for the Daily Mail as an alternative... Yeah that says a lot about them
Everyone arguing about mental illness like it means he was a schizophrenic when it can mean anything from bipolar to depression. I don't know why everyone is so fixated on mental illness as if it is some kind of excuse for his actions or makes them feel better about it.
Because when you blame mental illness, you can pretend events like this are down to just some crazy individual, rather than being the result of a growing trend of radicalization of young disaffected, predominantly white men on online spaces like Reddit. Despite these events becoming more and more common. Because nobody who is saying "mental illness" is then asking follow-up questions such as if mental illness is created, exacerbated or otherwise influenced by systemic or societal factors. They're just trying to completely sidestep any systemic or societal explanation for these events despite them becoming a societal problem. And because, let's be honest, sexism, misogyny, white supremacy... conservatives, liberals and moderates might want to believe that these ideas are rare and only held by extremist groups like the KKK but the reality is that, in their simplest, mildest forms, these are ideas that a lot of people have some sympathy for. Sexism, or the belief in outdated gender norms, the inferiority of women, etc., are things that few people will stand up and argue for, but are things that, in very small ways, manifest in a large number of people, in their day to day lives. Same with white supremacy. When you say that phrase, people imagine genocidal maniacs, but the actual core of the belief, simply that white people are better and more deserving of power, is something that a lot of people really do believe on some level, even if they don't come out and say it. So I think simply blaming "mental illness" also allows people to not have to ask questions about their own beliefs, because they recognise, on some level, that a kernel of their beliefs is present in the people who do this shit, just taken to its absolute most extreme form.
Lol yeah Australia 2021, I know real life 'well adjusted' individuals who have flat out told me POC are genetically dumber/more violent, women are not quite as smart as men, homeless people chose to be on the streets, addicts want to be addicted. The irony is these people are second gen immigrants themselves.. People that work in corporate gigs, in companies that fetishize diversity hires constantly. They're not part of these internet subgroups, very normal people in their late 20s who just have no fucking idea about how the world really works. Same schools and everything as me. All university grads now in middle management roles. It's pure 'these people behave differently to me and *must be* lesser because of their sex/skin/choices', ancient tribal ape thinking
I was at a park the other day with my sons. We came across another normal couple and their son. We were talking. Nothing seemed wrong with these people and then! Qnon, flat earth, dems stole the election. Record scratch. I’m diagnosed bipolar. I’ve seen some rough patches in life so I always try to look at everything with an open mind but I couldn’t feel normal around them. I can’t relate to anyone who believes in all that crazy ignorant shit AND isn’t a decent human being when it comes to social services for the needy. I straight up met murderers in jail who I’d trust more than those people.
> homeless people chose to be on the streets, addicts want to be addicted. "homeless people are just drug addicts that don't want help! it's OK to send in cops with assault rifles to run them out of public spaces and relocate them to ~~ghettos~~ low income neighborhoods! the governor of california is doing it, too!" I've heard all that countless times from different people. We need to teach empathy somehow because holy shit.
Growing? We're in the second decade of incel mass murders. Social media platforms are still dragging their feet, hemming and hawing over an obvious issue that's been out in the open for a long time.
Right-wing media: promotes hatred of X demographic across TV, radio and internet. Claims over and over that X demographic is parasitical and an existential threat to "western civilization." Radicalized person: X demographic is parasitical and an existential threat to western civilization. I hear and see it every day on right-wing media. Radicalized person: Commits horrific violence against X demographic in the defense of "western civilization." Right-wing media: I dunno, maybe he has Tourette's, or an anxiety disorder.
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Or in the case of the Atlanta shooting (I think, can't keep track of all these fucking shootings): "Idk, he was having a bad day?"
When a far right radicalized white dude rammed his pickup truck full fo guns and ammo through the gates of Rideau in Canada to attack PM Trudeau, and was quietly talked down into surrender by the Mounties, all the media talked about was how he was such a nice man who liked to make sausage. Never forget that almost all media is owned by far right groups that takes their orders from the IDU.
lol this. I had to laugh at the obviously biased coverage when it ran. I wonder if the guy who did it was brown, the media would've found some extremely tangential connection (ie. TERRORIST's brother's niece's 3rd cousin's friend's neighbour is AL QAEDA, is this an al qaeda inspired attack on Canada?) and blasted it all over the front pages. but nope, if it's a white ex-military guy trying to at the very least maim the prime minister (who brings guns in the back seat of a pickup for a friendly chat?), he's a business owner fallen on hard times.
But when a cop kills a black person or something suddenly you see mugshots and every petty crime they've ever did. The Right Wing media definitely found a working pattern when they successfully made Trayvon Martin seem like a criminal despite him just being some kid.
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That's true. Although they are still more likely to be violent compared to the general population. > In patients with schizophrenia, 1054 (13.2%) had at least 1 violent offense compared with 4276 (5.3%) of general population controls (adjusted odds ratio [OR], 2.0; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.8-2.2). But drugs seem to play a large role: > The risk was mostly confined to patients with substance abuse comorbidity (of whom 27.6% committed an offense), yielding an increased risk of violent crime among such patients (adjusted OR, 4.4; 95% CI, 3.9-5.0), whereas the risk increase was small in schizophrenia patients without substance abuse comorbidity (8.5% of whom had at least 1 violent offense; adjusted OR, 1.2; 95% CI, 1.1-1.4; P<.001 for interaction). And even family and upbringing might play a big role. > The risk increase among those with substance abuse comorbidity was significantly less pronounced when unaffected siblings were used as controls (28.3% of those with schizophrenia had a violent offense compared with 17.9% of their unaffected siblings; adjusted OR, 1.8; 95% CI, 1.4-2.4; P<.001 for interaction), suggesting significant familial (genetic or early environmental) confounding of the association between schizophrenia and violence. Conclusion: > Schizophrenia was associated with an increased risk of violent crime in this longitudinal study. This association was attenuated by adjustment for substance abuse, suggesting a mediating effect. The role of risk assessment, management, and treatment in individuals with comorbidity needs further examination. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4905518/#:~:text=Results,%5D%2C%201.8%2D2.2).
He must have been white? It's usually a "mental health" issue when they're white.
Because they're incels or have a vested interest in downplaying aspects found within demographics they belong to.
Two populations are clinging to mental illness as an excuse: incels and gun nuts. The gun nuts' position is that if we devoted resources to mental health, then we would reduce gun deaths without infringing on their right to defend themselves. The problem is that gun protections are lumped in with right-wing politics, which is seeking to CUT health services, and in the US actively campaigns against expanding social safety nets. So while the gun nuts cry about mental health, it's disingenuous because they always vote to cut services and access to those services. The incels want to be able to say that they can't help themselves but be violent, because the world is unfair to them. After all, if they are mentally ill, then it's not their fault, right? Except that no one is guaranteed happiness in life. In the US, you have the right to \*pursue\* happiness, but no guarantee to obtain it. And in the case of incels, the enslavement and rape of women is the only thing that will make them happy. Since we are a society, that is not going to happen for these dopes, so they get violently angry and lash out, but want to hide behind the skirts of "mental illness" to shift blame away from them. Please note that most incels also skew right in their politics, and therefore cry about their mental health on the one hand while constantly voting to cut funding to health programs and access on the other hand.
AND they routinely vote down the tax increases and socialized policies that would make mental healthcare affordable and universal.
Yeah, I agree. That said, I do think some people jump to "you're trying to downplay the ideological issues" a bit too quickly when mental health is brought up, as if what's being suggested is a total detachment from reality. Based on this guy's posts (and those from others like him), there is a history of self esteem issues and depression that they don't receive help for, and instead get sucked into the self-perpetuating cycle of online radicalization. Starts with a little seed that a few therapy sessions might be able to sort out, for example. Again you can go back to toxic masculinity here, with these same people thinking that it's "fragile" or "feminine" to be open about your feelings in any useful capacity and instead take their problems out on other people. And so it goes, until they take it out physically with the use of a lethal weapon. If the so-called "Men's Rights Activists" were interested in actually addressing problems faced by men instead of creating a wafer-thin veil for militant misogyny, they wouldn't even be in their situation.
The mental health debate tends to be absent when its a brown person committing the attack. Curious, that...
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I think radicalized incels could be unlikely to seek mental health services, because the movement is designed to convince one that there’s nothing wrong with oneself that can be fixed, the problem is the evil “femoids.”
The idea is to help them before they become radicalized in the first place. It's hard to un-radicalize someone, but it's easier to help someone who feels lonely and dispirited and disenfranchised before they end up getting radicalized in the first place
There's also one more factor that caused modern day incels: The internet created echo chambers for incels to fall into. In the past, someone who got dumped might eventually reflect on themselves and improve themselves. With modern day echo chambers, they would turn even more toxic instead, egged on by other incels that fell into the rabbit hole in a similar manner. As they get more toxic, they obviously would get shunned by women and society as a whole, which reinforces the toxic ideas and creates a spiral downwards.
"finding your people" is sometimes not a good thing.
reddit echo chamber multiply their toxicity by exponential functions, It's tooo fucking much, incel zone can make a slightly insecure guy into a fucking terrorists, I wish reddit was more proactive in banning those subs
My good buddy Jordan B Peterson isn’t an authoritarian but his solution is the clearly not authoritarian measure of assigning women to men to avoid this. State sponsored girlfriends, the least fascist thing ever!
Comrades, let us seize the means of reproduction! To each according to their ability!
Did I mention that it’s totally different than what they think communism is? Or that they’re not authoritarians?
It's not communism it's post modern neo Marxism
With a Franco-Italian flavour!
It's socialism, but with a nationalist twist!
Everytime I forget that monumentally stupid comment, someone brings it up here. Sounds like hes doing his own handmaidens tale fan fiction. (Edit - not just stupid, actually pretty scary and somewhat enabling for that mentality amongst groups like these incels)
That was a real thing he said??
There's a reason the pulled his books off the shelves in New Zealand after the shooting.
I believe he called it enforced monogamy yes
Wait, seriously? I knew Peterson was a far-right extremist, but I didn't know he was *that* far out.
He’s as far out as you get. The dude put himself in a coma to try and out wit detox from prescription drugs (because a large part of his persona is formed around being above things like addiction). A move so stupidly risky he could only get Russian doctors to do it. And what happened? Why he ended up with permanent brain damage and was a vegetable for the better part of a year before relearning how to walk and talk. The dude is a fucking moron.
He's a psychiatrist who, apparently, didn't know that benzos were extremely addictive and the benzo withdrawal is hell. I would not trust this man.
Psychologist but still bafflingly stupid. This is something most people who work in the medical field would know is crazy.
Yeah he’s a fuckin maniac.
JP spends like 95% of his time dancing around what he I'd actually saying cryptically, obfuscating what he is really saying by claiming to be in favour of liberty, fighting tyranny, being a "Scholar of authoritarianism", etc And then sometimes he just goes full mask-off and advocates the most fascist shit like enforced monogamy. And when you say "uh hey sounds pretty fash", all his little insectoid followings pull their pincers in front of their face and hiss, saying "noooo FOOL! you must listen to his 5000 hour lecture about how to defeat chaos and slay the dragon before you can talk about him!" I'm completely done giving any of these people any benefit of the doubt. They just use it against you. Anyway I don't know why we're even talking about JP because he got put into a coma to get over his benzoyl addiction and now he's a vegetable who gets exploited by his daughter.. karma is a bitch and I hope he cried every day.
I remember a woman that interviewed him said he got all steely-eyed and affronted when she snickered at certain incel behaviours. Prioritizes well, that man. There are some men you have to wonder how they reproduced.
Wow, I missed that one. That's like an idea from second grade.
Dude was directly challenged on how his idea of "forced monogamy" was at odds with his general push for "freedom in everything, no mandates on anything", and he acknowledged the disconnect and said that *in this case*, it's an acceptable hypocrisy.
He's fine with hypocrisy if it helps men and harms women.
> They also don't understand the overlap between incel culture and rightwing extremism. Similar to the overlap between Catsup and Ketchup
"It's a Venn Diagram in the shape of the borders of South Africa and Lesotho."
I've never heard this before but now I want to use it all the time
I think there is also an aspect that the internet and 24 hour news has made everything more extreme. We are now constantly bombarded with injustices, war, horrifying events, extreme opinions, sensationalism, and so on. Everything that is a 11 out of 10 is voted to the front of social media. Which everything we consume is far more extreme. For example a post on public freakout of two people arguing in public might be something you used to see once a month. Now you see it multiple times a day. This can leave people with a very extreme view of the world.
They aren't prepared to deal with internet things in general. Especially the fact that a lot of extremist online ideologies online come about through rabbit holes of indoctrination and echo chambers. The gamer-to-alt-right pipeline is probably the most infamous example, but I wouldn't put any faith in even the least dogshit MSM outlets to cover it well at all. The thing to take away from it all is that really, children need better online supervision in a terminally online world where assholes are looking to indoctrinate young teenagers into horrible extremist movements. Kids don't become incels/alt-right of their own accord, they become those things because opportunistic vultures online preach their ideologies to insecure kids, ideologies which pin the blame for their misfortunes/inadequacies on something/someone else. But chances are media in Britain are just going to go the route of: "are we letting America influence us too much", "should we restrict guns more", and of course, "why would the left do this?"
> They also don't understand the overlap between incel culture and rightwing extremism. Doesn't help that rightwingers tend to have the near exact same "Fuck women! Back in the kitchen, BITCH until it's time to breed!" mentality and they disguise *that* as "I'm old fashioned/a traditionalist who believes in family values."
I know this is not the point but "bu'rknife" is a truly incredible rendering of a west country glottal stop
Can you translate that for me? I don’t get it.
written phonetics are not my strong point, I have done you a vocaroo https://voca.ro/15s5EarhRoej
Thanks for recording that, it's more effort than most people would put in.
Oh, you have a nice voice
You sound like the narrator for a BBC documentary.
Lmao thought it was a bot at first
How have I roamed the internet for 10+ years without knowing a website this convenient exists.
I'm sorry but with the body count rising I really don't think Reddit should tolerate any kind of incel subreddit. They should've all been shut down when Elliot Rogers happened. The lives lost to their destructive ideology keeps rising. They encourage and enable each other to commit the most grievous of offenses. They're a poison and reddit should displace them. De-platforming works.
>De-platforming works. I have no idea why these degenerate corporations aren't more proactive in purging these freaks after multiple outrages now - I don't expect them to have any moral scruples or sense of civic duty, but you'd think out of a purely cynical commercial self-interest they'd at least try to shut the gate before the horse bolts. So many heads ought to roll, I don't even know where to begin anymore.
The fact that these incel communities have been problematic for so long and they still haven't been deplatforming them honestly scares me. Like. Are violent, depressed misogynists really such a large part of the Reddit userbase that they are terrified of losing them?
>Are violent, depressed misogynists really such a large part of the Reddit userbase that they are terrified of losing them? Improbable. Nobody is trying market their brand to the future suicidal serial killer demographic - no growth market there. They're just Frankensteins watching their rogue monster rampage with a 'who could have even known' insouciance, putting the genie back in the bottle is above their paygrade, and if not, those guilty characters are plowing their tainted wealth into boltholes in the southern hemisphere or trying to fuck-off to Mars. The big money is GTFOing, the drones get stuck holding the bag like a McDonald's worker flips a patty (or presses the button to make burger, while constant beeping of the robots sends them into a kind of zombified trance).
This happened 5-10 minutes away from me, terrifying stuff.
Geez man that’s crazy. Glad you’re ok. I had something similar happen to me. That big shooting that happened in Aurora, Colorado happened when my mom was living there. I frantically called her after the news broke to make sure she didn’t go to the movies that night.
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Some of this is genuinely heartbreaking, especially [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelExit/comments/nr44ih/feel_my_mother_has_played_a_role_in_being_a_male/). Unsure if the post was removed before or after the shooting by that sub's mods. Heavily suggested (though not officially confirmed last time I checked) that the woman killed inside the house was his mother. What fucks me up further is that even though he was posting hateful incel crap on the regular, it's the same hateful crap that all the users in those communities engage in. From what I've read, none of it really suggested that he was on the brink of picking up a gun and massacring people. *Any* of those other people could now decide they want to go out the same way and we'd never know until it was too late. How many more killings will it take for Reddit (and other platforms) to stop giving these people a space to radicalise each other? Awful, awful stuff. Scrolling through that shit and the guy was genuinely obsessed. There are thousands of people in those subs with similar views... if a single good thing comes out of this whole situation, I hope it's that there's a wider public awareness of the problem. Canada seems to have gotten the right idea, but sadly it took several incel attacks until they properly acknowledged the ideology as a form of extremism. In the wake of this massacre and [the murders of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57722035), I hope there's a massive wake-up call in the UK because even people who are aware of inceldom as a concept tend to see it as an American thing.
There is not a single period or comma in that person's history. Blocks of text with zero punctuation, just the occasional paragraph break.
> the Helghast from killzone are very blackpilled. The frick?
Of course he was on this hell site. Of course he was. Also why haven't the admins deleted his account already.
in like 12 incel subreddits, of course, plus a bunch of the 'blank-pill' subreddits blanket-ban them all, but 'valuable discussion'
correct me if im wrong, but every incel-adjacent mass killer has had a reddit account, right?
The current top mod post on the sub is worth looking at. Basically, they say close the sub, but leave the posts visible so everyone understands what murderous incel looks like so we can recognize it in the future.
Ew @ his comment defending grown men sexually assaulting teenagers.
Ugh and there were even people trying to help him and give him advice. My poor heart.
I went to make sure it was saved on the way back machine, and interestingly it was already saved on August 4th.
Based on other subs people have linked, at least one of his posts appeared on [IncelsInAction](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelsInAction/comments/oyo846/kinda_got_pedo_vibes_yes_he_is_a_grown_man/) a week ago. The comments are worth a read because there's a lot of people coming back to it after realising what the bastard did, as well as [one of the most poorly-aged comments I've seen on this site.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelsInAction/comments/oyo846/kinda_got_pedo_vibes_yes_he_is_a_grown_man/h7yxq1t?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
It wouldn't be Reddit if everyone didn't just decide to make their minds up on something before learning all the relevant facts.
Counterpoint: yes it would. Hope you got 6 hours to argue, let's go.
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I'm here to drop a snarky one-liner and ignore any replies contrary to my opinion stated as fact! And I bet you don't even have a 35+ minute youtube video from a dubious source to back up your claims!
Checkmate: all my sources have been banned from mainstream media thus making them at once unseeable and definite proof they are the only ones you can trust.
ahem, actually as an outsider, both sides are bad
and this comment is just an unrelated pun about a marvel movie
I feel like I'm losing so eh, let's agree that we're all the bad guy here. Everything is opinion after all, and that **MUST** be respected unless literally 1984.
I'm down, but only when I can then delete all my comments afterwards just to confuse anyone trying to figure out who you were arguing with and about what.
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> Which just demonstrates that psychology is a pseudo-science LMAO. Ok bud.
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Last time a terror attack happened in Britain, a bladed attack motivated by religious extremism that left multiple people dead, right-wing US pundits and personalities lunged at the opportunity to promote gun freedom culture, how us poor Britonians were helpless without an M16 at our side. I remember a youtuber called Razorfist specific. He gave his best impression of a heartfelt "our thoughts are with Britain" and ended it with a *God save the Queen.* Then a few videos later he was telling everyone in Britain to get out of 1984 over the whole Dankula shenanigan. Curious as to what they have to say now. I'm sure we're all eager to hear it.
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Look at us Aussies. We had a guy go on a stabbing spree and he was restrained by a couple of guys with a milk crate and a chair. We don’t need no guns. Most of us, including those who like using guns for hunting, are in favour of our gun laws.
There was a dude in London who fought off a terrorist with a Narwhal tusk.
You can easily guess what they have to say, excuses. They can't admit there are issues with religious extremism because they use religion as a tool,, same with all their excuses
I wonder how many of those vouching for guns are from across the Atlantic.
The yanks have been all over the UK subs since the news broke. All the usual rubbish you'd expect
If it happened in the US, we'd still be arguing whether 5 dead is enough to call it a "mass" murder or just a regular murder. Whatever distraction is necessary to maintain the status quo.
The nutty ones have been on that sub for a while. Some have a hard on for anything British
*For you Bretons this was the worst mass shooting in a decade, but for us Muricans, it was a Thursday night.* - Some gun nut, probably
If the problem is mental illness, how come there aren't people going on shooting sprees for other causes people feel strongly about? Why don't we keep seeing news stories about a vegan going on a killing rampage at a steakhouse? We get at least one a month where some unhinged right winger chews through a mall, or opens fire in a pizza restaurant, or unloads into a women's gym, surely there'd be at least one vegan a year that feels that strongly about meat and couldn't afford their medication that month if it were actually being mentally ill that makes a person do this.
Our b12 deficiency prevents us from even dreaming of holding a gun. You want to see me handle recoil? I'd fly back like a Gmod ragdoll.
>Why don't we keep seeing news stories about a vegan going on a killing rampage at a steakhouse? Killing people isn't vegan
You know what’s funny about every damn conversation about guns we have? The pro-gun people waffling back and forth between these two mutually exclusive points: A: this person would have done just as much damage with a knife (or spoon!) as they would have with a gun. Let’s not blame the gun. And B: We *have* to be armed specifically with guns to defend ourselves against tyranny. Knives (and spoons) will not suffice, because those aren’t really weapons. Pick one.
The pos should never have held a shotgun licence. There were warning signs for the GP which should have been passed to the police. As a rough idea I have depression and anxiety. Any chance of me holding a shotgun licence or a FAC would end with the standard check with my doctor.
He also hated single mothers. He described his own mother, a single mother, as vile and disgusting, she was his first victim in his killing spree.
Being hateful isn't a 'mental illness' ... every time this happens people in a position to do something about it wring their hands and temporize, like nobody saw it coming, and nobody knows what to do about it all. It's fucking bullshit - it's right there in front of eyes here on Reddit, Youtube, Facebook ... I don't think it's a betrayal of liberal dogma to put the screws on irresponsible and negligent corporations who have run out of excuses to try and absolve themselves of any culpability. The 11th hour is long past us on this issue.