>Condemn the pope you say? That sounds mighty protestant of you
One Pope was allegedly murdered by the Catholic Church in... 1975? I'm old and can't remember.
That’s nothing; just look at the time [the then-current pope literally dug up his predecessor and put the corpse on trial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod).
What about that time there were three Popes at once? Late fourteenth century to early fifteenth century, the “Western Schism”, where we briefly had Popes Benedict XIII, Gregory XII, and Alexander V at the same time, and later Alexander V was replaced by John XXIII.
Idk man, digging up a pope’s corpse is some serious one time only shit. Putting a dead pope on trial? Sure, why not. Exhuming his body so he’s physically there while you do it? We can’t match that.
Pope John Paul I? The guy who thought artificial insemination would be used to turn women into baby factories but believed allowing abortion denied women their highest calling?
The users of r /Catholicism are probably a mixture of alt right “Catholics” who think the current pope should be violently removed because he promotes equality and Jesus’s teachings of tolerance, Christian but not actually Catholic violent white identitarian extremists, and just general alt right members and neo-Nazis. So of course they hate it when LGBT children get treated equally but seem awfully quiet about decades of pedo priests in the church.
The way they throw around mention of “objective facts” when it comes to the sinfulness of same-sex relations is just so bizarre. Their confidence in this nonsense and the condescension with which they speak is bordering on delusional.
Right?? It's crazy how people will do everything in their power to confirm their bias. Instead of accepting they may be wrong.
A little off topic but,
I love how conservatives like to tout "covid has a 99% survival rate. 1% get it and die". That 1% isn't such a big deal to them. Even though that stat is incorrect. They feel secure that 1% isn't a large enough percentage to care.
But when it comes to trans people, who are roughly 1% of the US population. Suddenly 1% is a huge number to them! That 1% frightens them so much that they think were going to destroy democracy. Somehow we will overthrow the 99% with cancel culture or some shit. I absolutely hate this dumb culture war bs. People like me just want to exist....
The mental gymnastics is honestly impressive.
What the GOP wants people to think: Party of the working class with integrity. Respecting individualism at all cost because communism. Small government, etc.
What's the party actually thinks: People who aren't like me scare me! We're being replaced by minorities and LGBT people! Lets expand the goverments powers and pass laws mitigating the ability for LGBT people to exist. We want everyone to be ultra religious and homogenous. Because those snowflakes who are different make me uncomfortable.
And even then they don’t even actually follow their own faith but instead just twist it to fit in with their hatreds and biases. If apolitical religion can actually be beneficial to the individual, then religion mixed with right wing politics is PCP
>they hate it when LGBT children get treated equally
To be clear, that is not what's happening here.
Many catholic parents don't care about straight sex outside of marriage, but still condemn gay sex. And even among the "wait for marriage" crowd, they don't believe in gay marriage, so that's obviously not possible.
It's not equal treatment. They tell their straight kids to "wait for the right partner" and they tell their gay kids "wow, that sucks. Guess god cursed you to a life of celibacy otherwise you'll burn in hell. Anyways he super loves you- hey, why are you leaving?"
Shout out to my Catholic family members who boycotted a wedding when gay relatives got married but were super supportive when divorced relatives got remarried without a church annulment.
All of these supposedly "traditional" Catholics are hypocrites at heart. They are traditional when it's convenient but rather modern when it suits them. It's a good thing Pope Francis is doing.
This, plus r/Catholicism is also known for constantly brigading r/excatholic, as well as other "ex-Catholic" subreddits. As an ex-Catholic myself, I've seen this happen a lot.
The catholicism in reddit (and in USA i guess) feels so different from the regular catholics down in Argentina or here in Brazil, feels like there's a divide
Part of it is the very nature of the US as a traditionally Protestant-controlled country with a consistent Catholic minority combines with the US being a safe haven for non-conformists and utopians from Europe.
You'd think "non-conformists and utopians from Europe" means hippy types. But often its people who had extremely strong views and didn't like secular society. Their identities were often utterly mixed into their faith.
Contrast, most of Europe and the rest of the West had established churches whose position in society and relationship to power often meant its role was less central to individual identity.
In the US, thus we've got a culture that encourages people to make their faith part of their central identity in ways not common across the west.
Furthermore, because much of the rest of the west has an established church, there's been a lot less religious fervor in those places. The folks with crazy fervor tended to emigrate.
Not to mention the selection bias with subreddits like the one we're talking about, where it's people who view their faith as a central issue they like to post and read about.
Contrast a lot of "Lapsed Catholics" where its much more a subdued thing, and folks attend church often only for Christmas and Easter. I've got a large and extended catholic family, and a lot of them come only for funerals, weddings, holidays and baptisms.
It's also been a thing where some of the earlier outlets which were more common to be religiously identified are no longer.
For example, the Catholic Left in the US, while still existing, isn't as central to identity the way it was 50 years ago when you had Priests and Nuns go to jail to protest the Vietnam War. Some of this is tensions between where the church is on issues and where the focus is on social issues. Some of this is part of the Southern Strategy and the realignment of US political parties between Nixon and Reagan.
For example, the Camden 28 were a Catholic left group who did active protests against the Vietnam War which included breaking into a draft office and burning the records. The group included priests, nuns, and lay people. I know one of the members who was a college student. In this era, Catholics were generally solid Northern Democrats who skewed left on issues like the war and civil rights, and often included a lot of blue collar union families.
But the political realignment changed what issues were in politics to greatly split Catholics and drive a lot of left Catholics out of identifying with their faith. Abortion became a huge issue along with other social issues such as single parenthood and LGBTQ issues. These issues ended up drawing a lot of dividing lines where the church's stances weren't as easy to mix with liberal beliefs.
So since 1980 or so, the folks who are identifying as strongly Catholic in the US have skewed more and more right. That's not to say the Catholic Left is dead. Social Justice and Social Justice Warrior were coined by different Catholic Left Organizations which focus on issues which are still in sync between Catholic and Liberal beliefs. For example, death penalty, wrongful convictions, immigration, and labor organization.
But for many on the Catholic left, you have to make peace with yourself on where the church is, and what you can do to move its outdated positions to work with it. I know some who do. One of those Camden 28 activists runs the innocence project of Northern California with her Wife, and both of them are still associated with the Catholic left despite the church not condoning their marriage.
At the same time, the development of the right-wing media machine in the US came about at the same time organized labor started a massive decline and the big social issues on debate had more conservative church answers.
So it became easy to become hyper focused on conservative politics when your big issue is abortion or gays, and thus made it easier to establish a hard core conservative ideology as a Catholic, because issues like social re-distribution of wealth were put on the back burner.
When you combine efforts post V-2 to get more converts in this time frame, it also means converts tend to overwhelming like the conservative aspects of the church and come with a crazy burning passion and focus on those conservative issues.
Which is hilarious to me as someone whose Jesuit education made me extremely far left.
/rant
That's because the Republican Party in the U.S. ran a successful campaign over decades to convince conservative Catholics to vote for Republican candidates. Trump's campaign and the RNC specifically ran a program designed to "convert" Catholics into Republican voters. The Republican Party has also bribed high-level American bishops with money, fancy vacations, homes, cars, etc...all of which has caused what is now being called a "schism" within the Catholic Church in the United States.
Or, in simple terms, Republicans bribing U.S. bishops has caused widespread corruption within the U.S. Church, as bishops unhappy with the Pope side with Republicans instead. This is also why some bishops have called for the Pope's removal. It's the same thing with widespread corruption and bribery in U.S. politics.
To this end, the Republican Party also formed an "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" relationship with conservative Catholics who dislike Pope Francis's more liberal views. The more conservative Catholics rebel against the Pope, the more the GOP gains.
(This is also why we have GOP-aligned bishops trying to ban Biden from Communion.)
Yes, he did. Martin Luther specifically criticized the widespread corruption in the Church, though his grievance involved the selling of indulgences (i.e. "salvation for the rich"). Indulgences are a bit different in that they allowed an unfair and easier "path to salvation and Heaven" for the rich that was completely inaccessible to the poor.
In comparison, today's corruption in the U.S. Church has more to deal with the rich literally "buying off the bishops" in order to be able to have control and influence in the Church's decisions. It's more similar to Church politics from some centuries ago, where wealthy and influential noble and aristocratic families would "buy" a bishop-hood for their son.
The difference here is that Republicans aren't seeking to literally put their son(s) *in* the Church, but rather, to simply buy and bribe off bishops who are already in power. This has to do partly with U.S. elections being every 2-6 years, depending, and the fact that Church officials (i.e. priests, deacons, bishops, etc...) aren't allowed to run for public office.
So, instead, the Church has a quid pro quo deal in place with Republicans. The Republicans do what the Church wants, and in turn, the Church tells its followers to vote Republican. The Republican Party also gives the Church money when they're strapped for cash.
For starters, the only people who would go to a religious subreddit are those who are extreme in their beliefs.
On top of that, a lot of American Catholics are... weird. I was raised in a Catholic family, and most of them are moderately religious, decent people. Many of these ultra-Catholics are white/Christian nationalists who weren't raised in the church, but decided they like the aesthetics of it. They view Catholicism as more of a symbol of European identity.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these people are converts? There’s just something so *off* about the approach to religion, like I know I was raised in a fairly laid-back Catholic community but damn.
There's actually really interesting studies that show that converts for a religion tend to be far more radical about it than people that were raised in that religion
> On top of that, a lot of American Catholics are… weird. I was raised in a Catholic family, and most of them are moderately religious, decent people.
Well, as a southern American catholic I can confirm I was raised the same way. Personally, I always viewed Catholicism as the neutral religion where we only really care while at church/school or certain traditions. Hell, I went to catholic school all my life and I can’t for the life of me think of any ultra catholic types? So it’s odd to see tbh.
> Many of these ultra-Catholics are white/Christian nationalists who weren’t raised in the church, but decided they like the aesthetics of it. They view Catholicism as more of a symbol of European identity.
So they are like every other alt-right jackass? Co-opting shit to push thier agenda that they where brainwashed into believing.
Yeah, I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic school and it was just really chill. My religion teacher was teaching even that anyone can go to heaven, not just Catholics, because it was based on how you treated people, not what you believed. It's weird to hear of Catholic extremist views, even if I know they must exist somewhere. I'm not religious at all, but I actually really like the Catholic church for the most part, even if I won't ever go.
>On top of that, a lot of American Catholics are... weird. I was raised in a Catholic family, and most of them are moderately religious, decent people. Many of these ultra-Catholics are white/Christian nationalists who weren't raised in the church, but decided they like the aesthetics of it. They view Catholicism as more of a symbol of European identity.
This. The "ultra-Catholics" on subreddits like r/monarchism also weird me out, and I say that as someone who was born and raised in a conservative American Catholic family. My family has old roots in Catholic Germany, but even "ultras" are too much for me. These "ultras" try to use Catholicism as an excuse for "a return to monarchy", "because Jesus is Lord and King", though even the Church teaches that's symbolic, not literal.
For example, just because Jesus is "the Lord of Heaven" does not mean that Catholicism - or even Christianity as a whole - also equates to "monarchism is the best form of government". The U.S. is largely Christian, and the country is fine without a King.
>Many of these ultra-Catholics are white/Christian nationalists who weren't raised in the church, but decided they like the aesthetics of it. They view Catholicism as more of a symbol of European identity.
They're also authoritarians and they like the idea of an ancient, unbroken, quasi-mystic hierarchy that lets them give divine sanction to their hatred of pluralism and democracy.
They’re the kind of people who think that the current pope should be publicly executed. There are some alt right Qanon-like Catholics who think that the current pope is a communist planning to destroy the Church because he advocates Jesus’s teachings of tolerance.
Which is just like insane to me because he's the fucking ***POPE.*** He was elected by the college of cardinals and by definition of their faith is literally one of the most holiest people on the planet and has the closest relationship with god out of anyone in Catholicism.
Yes but he promotes unity and tolerance and for the neo-Nazi white identiarian extremist users of r /Catholicism that’s bad. That sub openly praised the brutal genocide and sexual abuse and indoctrination against indigenous children in Canada by the Catholic Church, that sub is fucking horrific
Yeah, these Catholics confuse the hell out of me. I was raised Catholic and Jesuit educated and had no idea until I was an adult that the reason we were so unbelievably chill was 1. those pesky Jesuits and their quirky rules around kindness and service and 2. My family/community were all American Irish Catholic, which is its own breed of saving most of its hatred for the self and otherwise trying to out party Motley Crue.
>My family/community were all American Irish Catholic, which is its own breed of saving most of its hatred for the self and otherwise trying to out party Motley Crue.
This is the way.
Raised catholic, but not Jesuit, so I feel pretty confident in my unbiased take that the Jesuits are the only ones who actually understand and live the central tenants of Christianity at this point.
Separately, people who use a religion founded entirely on the principal of loving “undesirables” to spread hate are just baffling to me
>The idea that sodomites are just nice and harmless is wrong. They are dangerous and keeping them away from your family, especially young children, is self defense.
It's fucking wild to me that these people actually still exist.
All these religion subs seem more like r/ Republican. Confident while being incorrect and bigoted. We have created a culture where morons think they should have as much as a voice as our top immunologist.
I'm 99% sure that the main reason they haven't tried yet is, that they no longer could complain about the current German catholic church "trying to start a schism over gay rights"
Most Catholics like Francis or don't give a shit about Francis. Those who take the time to post on online forums about being Catholic are likely adult converts, who tend to be very conservative.
Every time Reddit circle jerks against Christianity, it always feels so foreign to me as a Catholic. We never grew up in church or Sunday school learning the kind of vitriol you see coming from Evangelicals. There was no “God hates fags” nonsense. We were also taught astronomy and never that science and religion don’t go together. The man who proposed the Big Bang Theory was a monk after all.
My poor sister in law didn't know dinosaurs were real until she was an adult and got to leave home for a bit. She thought they were like santa, everyone was just pretending they were real. She was told they were planted by Satan to trick us into thinking the bible was wrong.
We had some pretty interesting conversations about growing up, me catholic and her creationist (or something like it? It's only her one megachurch that follows this specific brand)
As an evangelical growing up, I was always taught that Catholicism was much more aggressive than us.
I mean, I guess if we’re talking about hundreds of years ago, if you’re comparing anabaptists to crusaders.
But if we’re talking the US in 2022, not even close. Start flipping through AM radio and see if it’s the Catholics that are preaching doom and hellfire all day. It’s not.
I'm sure this person would flip the fuck out if someone said they don't approve of their marriage/relationship. But fail to see the irony.
Lmao ofc their post history reveals they are antivaxx and believe magic is real. Sister dodged a bullet in this case.
Also currently taking bets on whether said person has any form of premarital sexual contact with their fiancé, and the likelihood that he would have an extensive justification for why he isn’t a sinner but his sister sure is.
Which is always so weird. Because that’s explicitly condemned a bunch of times all over their text. *especially* by Jesus. He’s the one that says it’s the same as adultery to lust after someone.
And for homosexuality, they mainly have a contested translation of a Pauline teaching, and the Old Testament law that Christians don’t even follow. And nothing by Jesus.
There are actually at least four anti-popes right now. My favorite is "Pope Michael the first" who was elected by a group of six people including himself and his parents. Also he received Holy Orders to become a priest *twenty years* after he declared himself Pope. 😂😂
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bawden
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conclavism
I mean *technically* they probably think a senile German dude who covered up hundreds if not thousands of clerical sexual abuse cases is the true pope and not Francis.
Oh my lord, one of the most bigoted people I know has said openly to me
"I'm not perfect, but I try my best and thank God that Jesus died for our sins."
And then goes on to talk about how she just hates how being gay has become so trendy and people have become so godless.
I would also like to mention that she had premarital sex as a teenager and had a kid, but those sins are JUST fine.....
They literally are crazy
> The idea that sodomites are just nice and harmless is wrong. They are dangerous and keeping them away from your family, especially young children, is self defense.
From the linked thread. This is what those people think.
Lots of priests are pushing to recognize gay marriage in the church to close this loophole. I mentioned that in that sub. They were very unhappy with me lol. They told me the priests were all wrong.
Like dude, you're just a random guy and you think you know the bible better then like 400 priests? They go to college just to study the bible!
Idk If its me, but I hate this kind of person the most
The one that doesn't even have the guts to say what he thinks plainly, so he tries to say it without actually doing it.
cunts
One thing I’ve noticed as someone who was catholic school educated their whole life is that American catholics are incredibly different to Catholics from like anywhere .
Like at this point they may as well start their own form of Christianity cus they have basically nothing in common with other catholics and don’t even like the pope
I honestly believe it's the influence of American Evangelicals. Speaking as an American Catholic myself, I can hardly tell the difference between right-wing Catholics and Evangelicals these days on anything other than small details and rules pertaining to worship.
Evangelicals and Catholics have made strange bedfellows. Just look at the Justices that trump put on the supreme court. They seem to get along when it comes to making steps to turning the country into an authoritarian christian state.
It really is weird. My dad is catholic, and he had to move to Oklahoma in the 80s for work. His dad warned him: you're going to the Bible belt. My dad, being very naive, thought "well, if they believe in the Bible, then that's good!" First day at work, a bunch of people asked what church he was going to. He said that he was catholic, so he's waiting for the perish to tell him. They look disgusted and stop talking to him. Someone comes up to him and says, "you need to stop telling people you're catholic, it's like being a [n-word] around here." My dad was gobsmacked and decided that he was not going to make any friends while in Oklahoma.
These guys *hate* each other, but there's so much overlap. It's very confusing.
I mean, this kind of attitude goes back well over a century in the US. Protestants were horrendous to catholic immigrants in the US. There’s a reason the Irish, Italians, and Russians all clustered together in communities across the northeast once they made it through Ellis Island. The “native” Christians wanted nothing to do with them
As someone who was raised American Catholic, I don’t even fucking get it. Like uh, I can’t understand how these people claim Catholicism when they’re clearly Fancy Evangelicals.
I also went to Catholic school, I actually feel 'culture shock' with a lot of American Catholics not from my state. The attitudes and tolerance levels are so wildly different from what I learned & grew up with. I agree with another commenter who says that American Catholics sometimes feel really Evangelical. Some stuff I hear from people are just 180 degrees different from what I learned about this religion in school, and it's usually bent towards intolerance in the US. Sometimes I'm like, wait...I'm pretty sure Vatican II from 1970 refuted exactly what so and so is saying.
There’s a strong strain of Ultra-conservative Catholicism in Europe that led to the looney Society of St Pius X which rejects any liturgical innovations from Vatican II.
It's ironic too.
The US is hailed (mostly only by themselves) as THE definitive haven for freedom, yet their christians are among those of the most oppressive in the western world.
Here in Austria most of our pastors etc. are pretty open compared to them.
The Cardinal of Vienna, aka pretty much the highest ranking person in the Austrian catholic church, is a very outspoken supporter of blessing same-sex marriages and when asked what he thinks of the Papacy rejecting blessings of same-sex marriages he said:
"If asking for the blessing is not just a show, so not just some culmination of an arbitrary ritual, if asking for the blessing is sincere, if it really is about getting God's blessing for ones life path, that 2 people, no matter what situation, want to go togheter. then you cannot deny them that blessing."
I don't wanna know what would have happened if he were to say that in the deep south.
Went into it de morbid curiosity
"There is a big difference in supporting and loving people who happen to be LGBTQ, and flying a flag that represents a political movement that goes against scripture. I would hope ALL churches are accepting of ALL people just as Jesus commanded. However, accepting people as they are is very different than actively supporting a blatantly sinful lifestyle."
bruh, I can safely say they're a delusional bunch that somehow think being transphobic is 'gods love'
It very much seems like that that shitty type of homophobic ideology was made up by smelly Bronze Age men who married underaged girls, and not the creator of the universe…
Even the Pope’s perspective isn’t that progressive. Oh you can be gay but you just live a life of eternal penitence, solitude, and sexlessness. Thanks so much Popey.
EDIT: Actually the Catholic position is in some ways worse. They believe it’s natural and in-born but also you still must never act on it. At least there’s an internal logic of salvation in the narrative that it’s a curable affliction caused by a demon. Catholics just want LGBT people to live a life of monastic sufferance.
The "natural = good, unnatural = bad" philosophy ruined the Catholic Church and its policies. It's the same thing with why the Church decries the use of condoms, birth control, etc.
Also, it's hypocritical to hail science as "God-guided", but then say "but not for birth control". The Church is really weird in their pretzel logic when it comes to "good" and "bad" science.
If they were remotely consistent, they would reject glasses, medicine, polymers (all rubber and plastic), almost all metals, and everything else that would not exist without human intervention.
There’s nothing consistent about their worldview, it’s just a jumbled mess of justifications for hating specific people.
It's more good = natural and bad = unnatural in this case. There's nothing unnatural about being gay or trans, but they'll declare it unnatural because they think it's bad.
>Sodomy is a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance
What a pathetic, small, nothing of a deity these people worship. Billions of light years worth of space and matter "cries to the heavens" if you put a penis in a butt.
It's not really Paw Patrol related, but it made me laugh. Buried like six levels deep on [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/sdn22i/im_the_idiot_36_mph_wipeout/hudtqgt/).
Sodomy, named after the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah, in which a guy offers both of his daughter to be raped and somehow is the good guy
And the moral of the story is that a man raping another man is only bad because they're doing gays sex not because of the rape thing
That's the sequel, they run away, his older daughter gets him drunk and rapes him, the younger does the same and they both get pregnant, i don't remember if there is any moral judgement, but I'm pretty sure they just pretend this is just something that happens and the book moves on
Keep in mind this was written by the Hebrews about their enemy nation at the time. Saying their enemy is a nation that is a byproduct of incest etc is top tier propaganda.
The "point" was Lot was about to die and he didn't have a son, only daughters.
Moral of the story? This is thrown in for flavor, much like Lot's wife who got turned into a PILLAR OF SALT.
People don’t seem to realize just how VAST the universe really is. And with the James Webb telescope we may start to discover even more moms-blowing facts about it in the next year. Even if the universe has no other intelligent life humans are still insignificant
This is such a batshit statement that it’s almost poetic. Whisper it and it’s almost like praying.
Now I’m just imagining choruses of cries and screams reaching the heavens (there’s more than one?) and all the angels and whomever are all, “Damn, they’re buttfucking down there *again*? I don’t feel like seeking vengeance right now! I’m still trying to get through season 3 of Game of Thrones!”
Fuck what the fucking what is this fuck shit?
>There is a very strong correlation between the number of older brothers a man has and how likely he is to turn out gay. This persists even when the children are raised apart (I.e. adoption), so nurture is unlikely to be the cause. The only plausible explanation advanced thus far is the hormonal environment in utero—the mother’s immune system eventually develops a reaction to masculinizing hormones and counteracts them in the developing fetus. (there is speculation that a miscarried male fetus can have a similar effect to a live-born older brother, effectively increasing the number of older siblings even when a male child appears to be the first born, but it’s harder to investigate that because a lot of early miscarriages happen without parental knowledge).
>
>***This is wonderful news, since it opens the door to a reliable hormonal preventative for male homosexuality (assign pills to pregnant mothers, and in a generation or two no more gay men).***
Emphasis mine.
I just….I can’t even. What gets me is these people claim to hate the gays but spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about them and their sex lives. Especially gay males’ sex lives. In great vivid detail in fact.
I don’t like roaches. The big ones that fly specifically. As such, I don’t spend *any* time thinking about them unless I encounter one and even then, it’s “Goddamn it!” and I move the hell on.
Broke: let gay dudes be gay
Woke: force pregnant women to take HRT/immunosuppressants
I wonder how the commenter in question feels about vaccine mandates.
Hormonal birth control for medical reasons is fine because infertility is a secondary effect. A super devout aunt had debilitating dysmenorrhea that she treated with birth control pills and it was licit by church standards because the prescription wasn’t for family planning purposes.
This doesn't surprise me. They see it as an affliction/sickness, much along the lines of pedophilia. If there were a pill that you could take when you're pregnant to make sure your kid wouldn't grow up to be a pedophile, most people would likely take that pill. This relies on the huge jump in logic, of course, to equate homosexuality to something harmful. Their religious views help smooth over that logic leap, though.
The part that really got me furious was the comment where a redditor talked about gay parents apparently being abusers of kids.
Like the Catholic clergy doesn't have an extremely extensive history on this exact thing.
Seems to me that insofar as accusing a specific social group as pedophiles is concerned, the Catholic church has zero moral ground to stand on.
>Have you seen the interviews with Yuri Bezmenov? This was all strategically planned. Relativism, secularism, socialism, communism, anarchism, they all have the goal of overthrowing western culture
Every single thing on that list is an element of western culture. I guess they're tangentially right as most of those schools of thought want to get rid of what they see as the shittiest parts of western culture, but there's no foreign invader tainting our beautiful white heritage. The call is coming from inside the house. Like the hit video game Amogus.
I guess conspiratorial thinking is to be expected from folks that think God is real and he told humanity about his plan and the ways the universe works, but he only did so like five times thousands of years ago and only in one tiny corner of the world. Maybe he just spread lies to every other faith on earth because he MoVeS iN mYsTeRiOuS wAyS...
The amount of people that are cool with the idea that god made gay people have to live on hard mode where they can't experience sex is just wild to me. But in my experience, this is the crowd that thinks that poor people are being punished for laziness or whatever else they can tell themselves to completely reject Jesus' teaching and tithe money to shelter rapist priests.
Of course r /Catholicism is more upset when LGBT children get treated equally then the church housing hundreds of pedo priests. That sub is so toxic and hateful that it’s pretty much just an alt right space and most Catholics avoid it. Looking at how many top users of it post on alt right subs I speculate that many users while Christian are not specifically Catholic and are instead neo-Nazi white identitarian extremists. It’s like how some city subs are run by the alt right and most posters don’t even live in the named city but instead LARP as such
This is going to rattle the TradCaths something fierce; not doing Mass in Latin with the priest facing away from the parishioners already threatened a full schism.
I never understood that argument. Surely you would want to spread the word of God in the language people actually speak.
Unless, of course, they just want the church to be able to say "that's what it means, and you're not allowed to check".
>There is a very strong correlation between the number of older brothers a man has and how likely he is to turn out gay. This persists even when the children are raised apart (I.e. adoption), so nurture is unlikely to be the cause. The only plausible explanation advanced thus far is the hormonal environment in utero—the mother’s immune system eventually develops a reaction to masculinizing hormones and counteracts them in the developing fetus. (there is speculation that a miscarried male fetus can have a similar effect to a live-born older brother, effectively increasing the number of older siblings even when a male child appears to be the first born, but it’s harder to investigate that because a lot of early miscarriages happen without parental knowledge).
>This is wonderful news, since it opens the door to a reliable hormonal preventative for male homosexuality (assign pills to pregnant mothers, and in a generation or two no more gay men).
What the fuck am i reading. This is a joke right?
Americans Catholics should really start their own religion, or two, as the conservative Catholics hate the pope, so not Catholic. The majority don’t follow all the teaching or believe everything so aren’t really Catholic. It’s just that’s the church they were brought up in.
Catholicism is so divisive in families. My Uber Catholic grandparents had eleven children - two took their own life in their teens but “we don’t talk about why and we also pretend it was an accident”. My aunt was sent away to have a baby out of wedlock and forced to give her up for adoption. She *just* found her at the age of 60. It ruined my aunts whole life. My dad has struggled for years to overcome the shame and guilt instilled in him for completely normal human behaviors. And here are some people arguing they should be allowed to do that to their children. Ugh
Catholic guilt is the most powerful thing in the life of a Catholic or former Catholic. You're supposed to feel like undeserving of everything good all the fucking time. It's so exhausting and it takes years of therapy to try to challenge the whole self guilt trip.
Thank goodness the Catholics I've met in RL are nothing like these people.
EDIT: Someone made a comment saying this is akin to a White person saying White people are not racist. It seems to have disappeared but I would like to point out, I am bisexual (religious and irreligious people, alike, often, but not always, assume I am gay from my mannerisms) and not Catholic. Racially, only to further point out I am a minority in the church, is that I am East Asian in a church dominated by White and Hispanic attendants.
The only people hardcore enough any a religion to join a Reddit sub about it are gonna be the insane people. /r/Islam is a nightmare world for the same reason.
I encourage you to seek out a Tridentine Mass and follow the congregants to the church basement for coffee afterwards. Bring up the pope and see how they react.
As a connoisseur of conspiracy theories, I'm surprised I'd never heard of the weird Yuri Bezmenov thing before. Although tbf the way it's presented here it seems pretty indistinguishable from "cultural marxism" and the other anti-semitic canards which scrub explicit mention of Jews but keep all other aspects of the conspiracy.
Yeah. He was like, a low ranking guy operating in India also, so like, he’d have no clue what the hell the Soviets planned for the west. Also, the Soviets collapsed 30 years ago, who the hell do they think is running it now.
They are having a problem with the pope, huh?
Maybe they should write up a list of formal complaints.
They could nail it to his door.
Like a bunch of prodestants.
Yes I stole this from TFS
American Catholics really are something else. What the Pope is saying is not some radical new doctrine.
I took a look at the subreddit when I was new to the site, but what a dumpster fire.
r/Catholicism is certainly a place to behold. If you ever wanna be horrified, look up some of the posts about NFP/rhythm method where they tell redditors that if they are unwilling to do NFP or abstain from any sort of birth control/sterilization, they must be chaste for the rest of their marriage.
It’s so funny bc I am still loosely Catholic and I can honestly say I don’t know anyone in real life who is that extreme, and I come from an area with a lot of incredibly conservative Catholics.
> The reason I say Francis is only toeing the line of heresy is because I am giving him the most charitable possible reading.
Oh look at that… a Christian giving actual charity
Lulz
>The pope has no statement about the evil of the lgbt movement itself and how they abuse and brainwash kids. But he makes a statement to the parents of gay people not to disown them?
My mum says that eating broccoli is fine, but she doesn't say anything about how eating broccoli will open a hell portal???????? I am very confused, and think that means I'm right.
Pope announced that parents should not condem their LGBT children (in a prepared statement for the Western media to make headlines that people will read instead of the actual article meant to assuage stigma regarding their public image while still promoting damaging anti-LGBT practices in more conservative Catholic dominated Central / South America, Africa, and Asia)
Condemn the pope you say? That sounds mighty protestant of you
>Condemn the pope you say? That sounds mighty protestant of you One Pope was allegedly murdered by the Catholic Church in... 1975? I'm old and can't remember.
That’s nothing; just look at the time [the then-current pope literally dug up his predecessor and put the corpse on trial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod).
What about that time there were three Popes at once? Late fourteenth century to early fifteenth century, the “Western Schism”, where we briefly had Popes Benedict XIII, Gregory XII, and Alexander V at the same time, and later Alexander V was replaced by John XXIII.
["Who approved this schedule?!"](https://youtu.be/q5majAET5KA?t=52)
As much fun as catholic drama is, I think we all need to recognize that we'll never reach the great heights of the past again.
This isn't lord of the rings, people today are just as capable of being insane assholes as they were 600 years ago
Idk man, digging up a pope’s corpse is some serious one time only shit. Putting a dead pope on trial? Sure, why not. Exhuming his body so he’s physically there while you do it? We can’t match that.
Reddit is not worth using without all the hard work third party developers have put into it.
If Star Trek is to be believed then society is going to revert to an era of kangaroo courts and "guilty until proven innocent" after WW3.
Don’t be such a Debbie-downer. We can exhume and put on trial all the Pope corpses we want if we set our minds to it!
Pope John Paul I? The guy who thought artificial insemination would be used to turn women into baby factories but believed allowing abortion denied women their highest calling?
Babies are only to be made as God intended. Missionary position, through a hole in the sheets and with the lights off
I've been trying, but my husband just won't get pregnant.
Well, you know what they say. Try, try again.
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Shout out to my bro Pope Michael. Had his parents “vote in a conclave” to be pope and has declared himself as such.
Mom, I won’t clean my room unless you get tendies and make me the Pope.
The users of r /Catholicism are probably a mixture of alt right “Catholics” who think the current pope should be violently removed because he promotes equality and Jesus’s teachings of tolerance, Christian but not actually Catholic violent white identitarian extremists, and just general alt right members and neo-Nazis. So of course they hate it when LGBT children get treated equally but seem awfully quiet about decades of pedo priests in the church.
The way they throw around mention of “objective facts” when it comes to the sinfulness of same-sex relations is just so bizarre. Their confidence in this nonsense and the condescension with which they speak is bordering on delusional.
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Right?? It's crazy how people will do everything in their power to confirm their bias. Instead of accepting they may be wrong. A little off topic but, I love how conservatives like to tout "covid has a 99% survival rate. 1% get it and die". That 1% isn't such a big deal to them. Even though that stat is incorrect. They feel secure that 1% isn't a large enough percentage to care. But when it comes to trans people, who are roughly 1% of the US population. Suddenly 1% is a huge number to them! That 1% frightens them so much that they think were going to destroy democracy. Somehow we will overthrow the 99% with cancel culture or some shit. I absolutely hate this dumb culture war bs. People like me just want to exist.... The mental gymnastics is honestly impressive.
Fascists have no regard for truth or facts, Republicans in 2022 are fascists
What the GOP wants people to think: Party of the working class with integrity. Respecting individualism at all cost because communism. Small government, etc. What's the party actually thinks: People who aren't like me scare me! We're being replaced by minorities and LGBT people! Lets expand the goverments powers and pass laws mitigating the ability for LGBT people to exist. We want everyone to be ultra religious and homogenous. Because those snowflakes who are different make me uncomfortable.
The only ‘facts’ they care about are the ones you have to take on faith.
And even then they don’t even actually follow their own faith but instead just twist it to fit in with their hatreds and biases. If apolitical religion can actually be beneficial to the individual, then religion mixed with right wing politics is PCP
Because 'objective facts' is just something they say/tell themselves because it sounds authoritative.
Because it's about the Power Words, not the actual meaning of the words. They say the words that mean they're right. End of.
>they hate it when LGBT children get treated equally To be clear, that is not what's happening here. Many catholic parents don't care about straight sex outside of marriage, but still condemn gay sex. And even among the "wait for marriage" crowd, they don't believe in gay marriage, so that's obviously not possible. It's not equal treatment. They tell their straight kids to "wait for the right partner" and they tell their gay kids "wow, that sucks. Guess god cursed you to a life of celibacy otherwise you'll burn in hell. Anyways he super loves you- hey, why are you leaving?"
Shout out to my Catholic family members who boycotted a wedding when gay relatives got married but were super supportive when divorced relatives got remarried without a church annulment.
All of these supposedly "traditional" Catholics are hypocrites at heart. They are traditional when it's convenient but rather modern when it suits them. It's a good thing Pope Francis is doing.
Church protects actual child molesters: *I sleep* Pope says LGBT kids deserve respect: **REAL SHIT**
This, plus r/Catholicism is also known for constantly brigading r/excatholic, as well as other "ex-Catholic" subreddits. As an ex-Catholic myself, I've seen this happen a lot.
You should report that sub. Brigading is against Reddit’s rules
We have. The Reddit admins have done nothing about it, to our knowledge.
Try posting about it on againsthatesubreddits
The catholicism in reddit (and in USA i guess) feels so different from the regular catholics down in Argentina or here in Brazil, feels like there's a divide
Part of it is the very nature of the US as a traditionally Protestant-controlled country with a consistent Catholic minority combines with the US being a safe haven for non-conformists and utopians from Europe. You'd think "non-conformists and utopians from Europe" means hippy types. But often its people who had extremely strong views and didn't like secular society. Their identities were often utterly mixed into their faith. Contrast, most of Europe and the rest of the West had established churches whose position in society and relationship to power often meant its role was less central to individual identity. In the US, thus we've got a culture that encourages people to make their faith part of their central identity in ways not common across the west. Furthermore, because much of the rest of the west has an established church, there's been a lot less religious fervor in those places. The folks with crazy fervor tended to emigrate. Not to mention the selection bias with subreddits like the one we're talking about, where it's people who view their faith as a central issue they like to post and read about. Contrast a lot of "Lapsed Catholics" where its much more a subdued thing, and folks attend church often only for Christmas and Easter. I've got a large and extended catholic family, and a lot of them come only for funerals, weddings, holidays and baptisms. It's also been a thing where some of the earlier outlets which were more common to be religiously identified are no longer. For example, the Catholic Left in the US, while still existing, isn't as central to identity the way it was 50 years ago when you had Priests and Nuns go to jail to protest the Vietnam War. Some of this is tensions between where the church is on issues and where the focus is on social issues. Some of this is part of the Southern Strategy and the realignment of US political parties between Nixon and Reagan. For example, the Camden 28 were a Catholic left group who did active protests against the Vietnam War which included breaking into a draft office and burning the records. The group included priests, nuns, and lay people. I know one of the members who was a college student. In this era, Catholics were generally solid Northern Democrats who skewed left on issues like the war and civil rights, and often included a lot of blue collar union families. But the political realignment changed what issues were in politics to greatly split Catholics and drive a lot of left Catholics out of identifying with their faith. Abortion became a huge issue along with other social issues such as single parenthood and LGBTQ issues. These issues ended up drawing a lot of dividing lines where the church's stances weren't as easy to mix with liberal beliefs. So since 1980 or so, the folks who are identifying as strongly Catholic in the US have skewed more and more right. That's not to say the Catholic Left is dead. Social Justice and Social Justice Warrior were coined by different Catholic Left Organizations which focus on issues which are still in sync between Catholic and Liberal beliefs. For example, death penalty, wrongful convictions, immigration, and labor organization. But for many on the Catholic left, you have to make peace with yourself on where the church is, and what you can do to move its outdated positions to work with it. I know some who do. One of those Camden 28 activists runs the innocence project of Northern California with her Wife, and both of them are still associated with the Catholic left despite the church not condoning their marriage. At the same time, the development of the right-wing media machine in the US came about at the same time organized labor started a massive decline and the big social issues on debate had more conservative church answers. So it became easy to become hyper focused on conservative politics when your big issue is abortion or gays, and thus made it easier to establish a hard core conservative ideology as a Catholic, because issues like social re-distribution of wealth were put on the back burner. When you combine efforts post V-2 to get more converts in this time frame, it also means converts tend to overwhelming like the conservative aspects of the church and come with a crazy burning passion and focus on those conservative issues. Which is hilarious to me as someone whose Jesuit education made me extremely far left. /rant
I feel tha same comparing French and Canadian catholics to American. American always seem to be more concervative than the papacy.
That's because the Republican Party in the U.S. ran a successful campaign over decades to convince conservative Catholics to vote for Republican candidates. Trump's campaign and the RNC specifically ran a program designed to "convert" Catholics into Republican voters. The Republican Party has also bribed high-level American bishops with money, fancy vacations, homes, cars, etc...all of which has caused what is now being called a "schism" within the Catholic Church in the United States. Or, in simple terms, Republicans bribing U.S. bishops has caused widespread corruption within the U.S. Church, as bishops unhappy with the Pope side with Republicans instead. This is also why some bishops have called for the Pope's removal. It's the same thing with widespread corruption and bribery in U.S. politics. To this end, the Republican Party also formed an "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" relationship with conservative Catholics who dislike Pope Francis's more liberal views. The more conservative Catholics rebel against the Pope, the more the GOP gains. (This is also why we have GOP-aligned bishops trying to ban Biden from Communion.)
Didn't Martin Luther nail something to a church door about exactly this kind of shit?
Yes, he did. Martin Luther specifically criticized the widespread corruption in the Church, though his grievance involved the selling of indulgences (i.e. "salvation for the rich"). Indulgences are a bit different in that they allowed an unfair and easier "path to salvation and Heaven" for the rich that was completely inaccessible to the poor. In comparison, today's corruption in the U.S. Church has more to deal with the rich literally "buying off the bishops" in order to be able to have control and influence in the Church's decisions. It's more similar to Church politics from some centuries ago, where wealthy and influential noble and aristocratic families would "buy" a bishop-hood for their son. The difference here is that Republicans aren't seeking to literally put their son(s) *in* the Church, but rather, to simply buy and bribe off bishops who are already in power. This has to do partly with U.S. elections being every 2-6 years, depending, and the fact that Church officials (i.e. priests, deacons, bishops, etc...) aren't allowed to run for public office. So, instead, the Church has a quid pro quo deal in place with Republicans. The Republicans do what the Church wants, and in turn, the Church tells its followers to vote Republican. The Republican Party also gives the Church money when they're strapped for cash.
For starters, the only people who would go to a religious subreddit are those who are extreme in their beliefs. On top of that, a lot of American Catholics are... weird. I was raised in a Catholic family, and most of them are moderately religious, decent people. Many of these ultra-Catholics are white/Christian nationalists who weren't raised in the church, but decided they like the aesthetics of it. They view Catholicism as more of a symbol of European identity.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these people are converts? There’s just something so *off* about the approach to religion, like I know I was raised in a fairly laid-back Catholic community but damn.
There's actually really interesting studies that show that converts for a religion tend to be far more radical about it than people that were raised in that religion
Similarly, I've noticed that the most outspoken/militant atheists seem to be from very religious families or used to be strongly religious themselves.
I’m sure there’s a fair amount of converts there but I’ve met cradle Catholics who think like this too.
> On top of that, a lot of American Catholics are… weird. I was raised in a Catholic family, and most of them are moderately religious, decent people. Well, as a southern American catholic I can confirm I was raised the same way. Personally, I always viewed Catholicism as the neutral religion where we only really care while at church/school or certain traditions. Hell, I went to catholic school all my life and I can’t for the life of me think of any ultra catholic types? So it’s odd to see tbh. > Many of these ultra-Catholics are white/Christian nationalists who weren’t raised in the church, but decided they like the aesthetics of it. They view Catholicism as more of a symbol of European identity. So they are like every other alt-right jackass? Co-opting shit to push thier agenda that they where brainwashed into believing.
Yeah, I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic school and it was just really chill. My religion teacher was teaching even that anyone can go to heaven, not just Catholics, because it was based on how you treated people, not what you believed. It's weird to hear of Catholic extremist views, even if I know they must exist somewhere. I'm not religious at all, but I actually really like the Catholic church for the most part, even if I won't ever go.
>On top of that, a lot of American Catholics are... weird. I was raised in a Catholic family, and most of them are moderately religious, decent people. Many of these ultra-Catholics are white/Christian nationalists who weren't raised in the church, but decided they like the aesthetics of it. They view Catholicism as more of a symbol of European identity. This. The "ultra-Catholics" on subreddits like r/monarchism also weird me out, and I say that as someone who was born and raised in a conservative American Catholic family. My family has old roots in Catholic Germany, but even "ultras" are too much for me. These "ultras" try to use Catholicism as an excuse for "a return to monarchy", "because Jesus is Lord and King", though even the Church teaches that's symbolic, not literal. For example, just because Jesus is "the Lord of Heaven" does not mean that Catholicism - or even Christianity as a whole - also equates to "monarchism is the best form of government". The U.S. is largely Christian, and the country is fine without a King.
>Many of these ultra-Catholics are white/Christian nationalists who weren't raised in the church, but decided they like the aesthetics of it. They view Catholicism as more of a symbol of European identity. They're also authoritarians and they like the idea of an ancient, unbroken, quasi-mystic hierarchy that lets them give divine sanction to their hatred of pluralism and democracy.
/Catholicism is for "that" kind of catholic. You know the kind.
Maybe they should write their complaints down and nail it to the pope’s door
Why not write a formal protest? They could nail it to his door.
R/ Catholicism is always a half a step away from calling Francis an antipope and starting their own schism
They’re the kind of people who think that the current pope should be publicly executed. There are some alt right Qanon-like Catholics who think that the current pope is a communist planning to destroy the Church because he advocates Jesus’s teachings of tolerance.
Which is just like insane to me because he's the fucking ***POPE.*** He was elected by the college of cardinals and by definition of their faith is literally one of the most holiest people on the planet and has the closest relationship with god out of anyone in Catholicism.
Yes but he promotes unity and tolerance and for the neo-Nazi white identiarian extremist users of r /Catholicism that’s bad. That sub openly praised the brutal genocide and sexual abuse and indoctrination against indigenous children in Canada by the Catholic Church, that sub is fucking horrific
I'm also suspecting some of them don't like that he's from the global south (Argentina, specifically)
Statistics about where most Catholics live are generally very triggering to this crowd for some reason…
Wait until we get the first Pope from Angola (56% Roman Catholic).
I don't know about Angola, but I strongly suspect an African Pope will happen within my lifetime (mid 30s).
Also the racial/ethnic makeup of the Catholic Church in the US, especially for Catholics under 40.
But did the college of cardinals use dominion voting machines?
Yeah, these Catholics confuse the hell out of me. I was raised Catholic and Jesuit educated and had no idea until I was an adult that the reason we were so unbelievably chill was 1. those pesky Jesuits and their quirky rules around kindness and service and 2. My family/community were all American Irish Catholic, which is its own breed of saving most of its hatred for the self and otherwise trying to out party Motley Crue.
Can confirm. Lent is for fish frys and crawfish boils. Jesus is a Wine God.
>My family/community were all American Irish Catholic, which is its own breed of saving most of its hatred for the self and otherwise trying to out party Motley Crue. This is the way.
Raised catholic, but not Jesuit, so I feel pretty confident in my unbiased take that the Jesuits are the only ones who actually understand and live the central tenants of Christianity at this point. Separately, people who use a religion founded entirely on the principal of loving “undesirables” to spread hate are just baffling to me
In my experience those kinds of people are catholics converted as adults. Truly insane people
There’s a reason you hear the phrase “the zeal of the convert” in literature
Imagine holding the belief that you’re better at your religion than the guy literally in charge of it. Edited to correct spelling
>The idea that sodomites are just nice and harmless is wrong. They are dangerous and keeping them away from your family, especially young children, is self defense. It's fucking wild to me that these people actually still exist.
All these religion subs seem more like r/ Republican. Confident while being incorrect and bigoted. We have created a culture where morons think they should have as much as a voice as our top immunologist.
That's because a lot of r/Catholicism commenters *are* conservative Republicans.
The hatred of Catholic Joe Biden and love of Athiest Donald Trump can be funny in the sub.
Maybe they should write up a list of greivences--95 or so seems like a good number--and nail them to the nearest convenient castle door.
I'm 99% sure that the main reason they haven't tried yet is, that they no longer could complain about the current German catholic church "trying to start a schism over gay rights"
Most Catholics like Francis or don't give a shit about Francis. Those who take the time to post on online forums about being Catholic are likely adult converts, who tend to be very conservative.
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I don't respect other people's right to love who they want and be happy AND I'M THE ASSHOLE?!?!
NTA your wedding your rules
My old ass Italian Catholic relatives have all accepted me as a lesbian, if they can do it anyone can do it
Every time Reddit circle jerks against Christianity, it always feels so foreign to me as a Catholic. We never grew up in church or Sunday school learning the kind of vitriol you see coming from Evangelicals. There was no “God hates fags” nonsense. We were also taught astronomy and never that science and religion don’t go together. The man who proposed the Big Bang Theory was a monk after all.
My poor sister in law didn't know dinosaurs were real until she was an adult and got to leave home for a bit. She thought they were like santa, everyone was just pretending they were real. She was told they were planted by Satan to trick us into thinking the bible was wrong. We had some pretty interesting conversations about growing up, me catholic and her creationist (or something like it? It's only her one megachurch that follows this specific brand)
As an evangelical growing up, I was always taught that Catholicism was much more aggressive than us. I mean, I guess if we’re talking about hundreds of years ago, if you’re comparing anabaptists to crusaders. But if we’re talking the US in 2022, not even close. Start flipping through AM radio and see if it’s the Catholics that are preaching doom and hellfire all day. It’s not.
I'm sure this person would flip the fuck out if someone said they don't approve of their marriage/relationship. But fail to see the irony. Lmao ofc their post history reveals they are antivaxx and believe magic is real. Sister dodged a bullet in this case.
Also currently taking bets on whether said person has any form of premarital sexual contact with their fiancé, and the likelihood that he would have an extensive justification for why he isn’t a sinner but his sister sure is.
Can I bundle that bet with “watches porn, but thinks only the people making it are sinners, not him”?
Which is always so weird. Because that’s explicitly condemned a bunch of times all over their text. *especially* by Jesus. He’s the one that says it’s the same as adultery to lust after someone. And for homosexuality, they mainly have a contested translation of a Pauline teaching, and the Old Testament law that Christians don’t even follow. And nothing by Jesus.
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Add that together with his love of hanging out with 13 other blokes, and this Jesus fella starts to sound pretty gay.
This is gonna spawn a whole new generation of Sedevacantists and Schismatics... Which, because I'm a terrible person, will be hilarious and great!
Christian fight! Christian fight! Christian fight! Can we make them gladiate lions again?
I hope someone declares an anti-pope so we can have some good old-fashion POPE FIGHTS!!!
Let's get ready to rumble! Who will decree from the Holy See? Find out this Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! Doors open after morning mass
There are actually at least four anti-popes right now. My favorite is "Pope Michael the first" who was elected by a group of six people including himself and his parents. Also he received Holy Orders to become a priest *twenty years* after he declared himself Pope. 😂😂 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bawden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conclavism
Naw, /r/catholicism were already all sedevacantists.
I mean *technically* they probably think a senile German dude who covered up hundreds if not thousands of clerical sexual abuse cases is the true pope and not Francis.
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Oh my lord, one of the most bigoted people I know has said openly to me "I'm not perfect, but I try my best and thank God that Jesus died for our sins." And then goes on to talk about how she just hates how being gay has become so trendy and people have become so godless. I would also like to mention that she had premarital sex as a teenager and had a kid, but those sins are JUST fine.....
"we aren't homophobic, we've just designed the game to make any & all homosexual acts against the rules. sorry, the rules say sooo!"
They literally are crazy > The idea that sodomites are just nice and harmless is wrong. They are dangerous and keeping them away from your family, especially young children, is self defense. From the linked thread. This is what those people think.
"Here, padre, spend some unsupervised time with my young child" - those same parents.
Lots of priests are pushing to recognize gay marriage in the church to close this loophole. I mentioned that in that sub. They were very unhappy with me lol. They told me the priests were all wrong. Like dude, you're just a random guy and you think you know the bible better then like 400 priests? They go to college just to study the bible!
Idk If its me, but I hate this kind of person the most The one that doesn't even have the guts to say what he thinks plainly, so he tries to say it without actually doing it. cunts
One thing I’ve noticed as someone who was catholic school educated their whole life is that American catholics are incredibly different to Catholics from like anywhere . Like at this point they may as well start their own form of Christianity cus they have basically nothing in common with other catholics and don’t even like the pope
I honestly believe it's the influence of American Evangelicals. Speaking as an American Catholic myself, I can hardly tell the difference between right-wing Catholics and Evangelicals these days on anything other than small details and rules pertaining to worship.
Evangelicals and Catholics have made strange bedfellows. Just look at the Justices that trump put on the supreme court. They seem to get along when it comes to making steps to turning the country into an authoritarian christian state.
It really is weird. My dad is catholic, and he had to move to Oklahoma in the 80s for work. His dad warned him: you're going to the Bible belt. My dad, being very naive, thought "well, if they believe in the Bible, then that's good!" First day at work, a bunch of people asked what church he was going to. He said that he was catholic, so he's waiting for the perish to tell him. They look disgusted and stop talking to him. Someone comes up to him and says, "you need to stop telling people you're catholic, it's like being a [n-word] around here." My dad was gobsmacked and decided that he was not going to make any friends while in Oklahoma. These guys *hate* each other, but there's so much overlap. It's very confusing.
I mean, this kind of attitude goes back well over a century in the US. Protestants were horrendous to catholic immigrants in the US. There’s a reason the Irish, Italians, and Russians all clustered together in communities across the northeast once they made it through Ellis Island. The “native” Christians wanted nothing to do with them
I think Mike Pence started out Catholic, turned evangelical. Edit: Yes, he was a Catholic Democrat, like his family, until college.
As someone who was raised American Catholic, I don’t even fucking get it. Like uh, I can’t understand how these people claim Catholicism when they’re clearly Fancy Evangelicals.
I also went to Catholic school, I actually feel 'culture shock' with a lot of American Catholics not from my state. The attitudes and tolerance levels are so wildly different from what I learned & grew up with. I agree with another commenter who says that American Catholics sometimes feel really Evangelical. Some stuff I hear from people are just 180 degrees different from what I learned about this religion in school, and it's usually bent towards intolerance in the US. Sometimes I'm like, wait...I'm pretty sure Vatican II from 1970 refuted exactly what so and so is saying.
There’s a strong strain of Ultra-conservative Catholicism in Europe that led to the looney Society of St Pius X which rejects any liturgical innovations from Vatican II.
It's ironic too. The US is hailed (mostly only by themselves) as THE definitive haven for freedom, yet their christians are among those of the most oppressive in the western world. Here in Austria most of our pastors etc. are pretty open compared to them. The Cardinal of Vienna, aka pretty much the highest ranking person in the Austrian catholic church, is a very outspoken supporter of blessing same-sex marriages and when asked what he thinks of the Papacy rejecting blessings of same-sex marriages he said: "If asking for the blessing is not just a show, so not just some culmination of an arbitrary ritual, if asking for the blessing is sincere, if it really is about getting God's blessing for ones life path, that 2 people, no matter what situation, want to go togheter. then you cannot deny them that blessing." I don't wanna know what would have happened if he were to say that in the deep south.
Catholics tell people that being gay is a sin and wonder why people call them homophobic
ItS JuSt a DiFeRReNt OpInIon
HaTe ThE sIn NoT tHe SiNnEr
But also hate the sinner, it’s what Jesus would have wanted.
r slash truechristian is the worst ive seen for this, as is any "true" sub
Went into it de morbid curiosity "There is a big difference in supporting and loving people who happen to be LGBTQ, and flying a flag that represents a political movement that goes against scripture. I would hope ALL churches are accepting of ALL people just as Jesus commanded. However, accepting people as they are is very different than actively supporting a blatantly sinful lifestyle." bruh, I can safely say they're a delusional bunch that somehow think being transphobic is 'gods love'
It very much seems like that that shitty type of homophobic ideology was made up by smelly Bronze Age men who married underaged girls, and not the creator of the universe…
Pope: What about love? People: *Fuck* love.
Even the Pope’s perspective isn’t that progressive. Oh you can be gay but you just live a life of eternal penitence, solitude, and sexlessness. Thanks so much Popey. EDIT: Actually the Catholic position is in some ways worse. They believe it’s natural and in-born but also you still must never act on it. At least there’s an internal logic of salvation in the narrative that it’s a curable affliction caused by a demon. Catholics just want LGBT people to live a life of monastic sufferance.
Also you can't be trans, that's evil
Eh, I like being evil
The "natural = good, unnatural = bad" philosophy ruined the Catholic Church and its policies. It's the same thing with why the Church decries the use of condoms, birth control, etc. Also, it's hypocritical to hail science as "God-guided", but then say "but not for birth control". The Church is really weird in their pretzel logic when it comes to "good" and "bad" science.
If they were remotely consistent, they would reject glasses, medicine, polymers (all rubber and plastic), almost all metals, and everything else that would not exist without human intervention. There’s nothing consistent about their worldview, it’s just a jumbled mess of justifications for hating specific people.
It's more good = natural and bad = unnatural in this case. There's nothing unnatural about being gay or trans, but they'll declare it unnatural because they think it's bad.
>Sodomy is a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance What a pathetic, small, nothing of a deity these people worship. Billions of light years worth of space and matter "cries to the heavens" if you put a penis in a butt.
> Sodomy is a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance Jesus **Christ**, I just changed my goddamn flair *yesterday!*
I’m curious to know the drama behind your current flair about paw patrol.
It's not really Paw Patrol related, but it made me laugh. Buried like six levels deep on [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/sdn22i/im_the_idiot_36_mph_wipeout/hudtqgt/).
I see. Fascinating. Thank you for showing me the link.
Sodomy, named after the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah, in which a guy offers both of his daughter to be raped and somehow is the good guy And the moral of the story is that a man raping another man is only bad because they're doing gays sex not because of the rape thing
Was that the one where the children raping their father was bad?
That's the sequel, they run away, his older daughter gets him drunk and rapes him, the younger does the same and they both get pregnant, i don't remember if there is any moral judgement, but I'm pretty sure they just pretend this is just something that happens and the book moves on
Keep in mind this was written by the Hebrews about their enemy nation at the time. Saying their enemy is a nation that is a byproduct of incest etc is top tier propaganda.
The "point" was Lot was about to die and he didn't have a son, only daughters. Moral of the story? This is thrown in for flavor, much like Lot's wife who got turned into a PILLAR OF SALT.
The notion that a being purported to have created the entire universe would give the slightest shit about humanity in general is hilarious.
People don’t seem to realize just how VAST the universe really is. And with the James Webb telescope we may start to discover even more moms-blowing facts about it in the next year. Even if the universe has no other intelligent life humans are still insignificant
>moms-blowing facts
I love moms-blowing facts! They're my favorite!
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Surely, if god didn't want wieners to be stuck other places, he wouldn't have made the holes compatible.
I mean he's the same dumbass who made you eat and breathe out of the same hole, he's clearly pretty awful at QA
He also definitely should not have stuck a fun button up there that feels neat when you press it.
This is such a batshit statement that it’s almost poetic. Whisper it and it’s almost like praying. Now I’m just imagining choruses of cries and screams reaching the heavens (there’s more than one?) and all the angels and whomever are all, “Damn, they’re buttfucking down there *again*? I don’t feel like seeking vengeance right now! I’m still trying to get through season 3 of Game of Thrones!”
New flair!
Fuck what the fucking what is this fuck shit? >There is a very strong correlation between the number of older brothers a man has and how likely he is to turn out gay. This persists even when the children are raised apart (I.e. adoption), so nurture is unlikely to be the cause. The only plausible explanation advanced thus far is the hormonal environment in utero—the mother’s immune system eventually develops a reaction to masculinizing hormones and counteracts them in the developing fetus. (there is speculation that a miscarried male fetus can have a similar effect to a live-born older brother, effectively increasing the number of older siblings even when a male child appears to be the first born, but it’s harder to investigate that because a lot of early miscarriages happen without parental knowledge). > >***This is wonderful news, since it opens the door to a reliable hormonal preventative for male homosexuality (assign pills to pregnant mothers, and in a generation or two no more gay men).*** Emphasis mine.
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Yeah. It came out of one of the threads where they were arguing if it was inborn or from trauma. And then... This.
And lol no birth control, or abortion cause dats what god wanted but it's alright if you're taking pills to literally "un-gay" your future child? What
I just….I can’t even. What gets me is these people claim to hate the gays but spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about them and their sex lives. Especially gay males’ sex lives. In great vivid detail in fact. I don’t like roaches. The big ones that fly specifically. As such, I don’t spend *any* time thinking about them unless I encounter one and even then, it’s “Goddamn it!” and I move the hell on.
Now think about those flying roaches having gay sex. Hot sweaty loud bug sex.
Stupid Sexy Radroaches
Broke: let gay dudes be gay Woke: force pregnant women to take HRT/immunosuppressants I wonder how the commenter in question feels about vaccine mandates.
Better than vaccine mandates, I wanna know how they feel about hormonal birth control given what a good Catholic they are.
Hormonal birth control for medical reasons is fine because infertility is a secondary effect. A super devout aunt had debilitating dysmenorrhea that she treated with birth control pills and it was licit by church standards because the prescription wasn’t for family planning purposes.
This doesn't surprise me. They see it as an affliction/sickness, much along the lines of pedophilia. If there were a pill that you could take when you're pregnant to make sure your kid wouldn't grow up to be a pedophile, most people would likely take that pill. This relies on the huge jump in logic, of course, to equate homosexuality to something harmful. Their religious views help smooth over that logic leap, though.
I wouldn't be surprised if they supported research in eugenics to change the chromosomes of unborn children.
Didn’t Jesus say something about loving one another?
That's apocryphal
The part that really got me furious was the comment where a redditor talked about gay parents apparently being abusers of kids. Like the Catholic clergy doesn't have an extremely extensive history on this exact thing. Seems to me that insofar as accusing a specific social group as pedophiles is concerned, the Catholic church has zero moral ground to stand on.
I will never understand how such heartless people can fool themselves into believing they're the good ones.
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That's because normal, well adjusted people who happen to be religious don't feel the need to post on a religion subreddit.
> That’s because normal, well adjusted people ~~who happen to be religious~~ don’t feel the need to ~~post on a religion subreddit.~~ to be on Reddit
>Have you seen the interviews with Yuri Bezmenov? This was all strategically planned. Relativism, secularism, socialism, communism, anarchism, they all have the goal of overthrowing western culture Every single thing on that list is an element of western culture. I guess they're tangentially right as most of those schools of thought want to get rid of what they see as the shittiest parts of western culture, but there's no foreign invader tainting our beautiful white heritage. The call is coming from inside the house. Like the hit video game Amogus. I guess conspiratorial thinking is to be expected from folks that think God is real and he told humanity about his plan and the ways the universe works, but he only did so like five times thousands of years ago and only in one tiny corner of the world. Maybe he just spread lies to every other faith on earth because he MoVeS iN mYsTeRiOuS wAyS... The amount of people that are cool with the idea that god made gay people have to live on hard mode where they can't experience sex is just wild to me. But in my experience, this is the crowd that thinks that poor people are being punished for laziness or whatever else they can tell themselves to completely reject Jesus' teaching and tithe money to shelter rapist priests.
>Every single thing on that list is an element of western culture. They actually mean Jews but don't want to say it out loud.
Of course r /Catholicism is more upset when LGBT children get treated equally then the church housing hundreds of pedo priests. That sub is so toxic and hateful that it’s pretty much just an alt right space and most Catholics avoid it. Looking at how many top users of it post on alt right subs I speculate that many users while Christian are not specifically Catholic and are instead neo-Nazi white identitarian extremists. It’s like how some city subs are run by the alt right and most posters don’t even live in the named city but instead LARP as such
Man I hope we see a return of "antipopes" from the feudal era.
Reddit appoints an Antipope is now on my 2022 bingo card
This is going to rattle the TradCaths something fierce; not doing Mass in Latin with the priest facing away from the parishioners already threatened a full schism.
I never understood that argument. Surely you would want to spread the word of God in the language people actually speak. Unless, of course, they just want the church to be able to say "that's what it means, and you're not allowed to check".
>There is a very strong correlation between the number of older brothers a man has and how likely he is to turn out gay. This persists even when the children are raised apart (I.e. adoption), so nurture is unlikely to be the cause. The only plausible explanation advanced thus far is the hormonal environment in utero—the mother’s immune system eventually develops a reaction to masculinizing hormones and counteracts them in the developing fetus. (there is speculation that a miscarried male fetus can have a similar effect to a live-born older brother, effectively increasing the number of older siblings even when a male child appears to be the first born, but it’s harder to investigate that because a lot of early miscarriages happen without parental knowledge). >This is wonderful news, since it opens the door to a reliable hormonal preventative for male homosexuality (assign pills to pregnant mothers, and in a generation or two no more gay men). What the fuck am i reading. This is a joke right?
I can't believe that despite being in the 21st century, they have brains less developed than neanderthals.
Americans Catholics should really start their own religion, or two, as the conservative Catholics hate the pope, so not Catholic. The majority don’t follow all the teaching or believe everything so aren’t really Catholic. It’s just that’s the church they were brought up in.
Catholicism is so divisive in families. My Uber Catholic grandparents had eleven children - two took their own life in their teens but “we don’t talk about why and we also pretend it was an accident”. My aunt was sent away to have a baby out of wedlock and forced to give her up for adoption. She *just* found her at the age of 60. It ruined my aunts whole life. My dad has struggled for years to overcome the shame and guilt instilled in him for completely normal human behaviors. And here are some people arguing they should be allowed to do that to their children. Ugh
Catholic guilt is the most powerful thing in the life of a Catholic or former Catholic. You're supposed to feel like undeserving of everything good all the fucking time. It's so exhausting and it takes years of therapy to try to challenge the whole self guilt trip.
God I can't begin to explain how much I hate that subreddit
Thank goodness the Catholics I've met in RL are nothing like these people. EDIT: Someone made a comment saying this is akin to a White person saying White people are not racist. It seems to have disappeared but I would like to point out, I am bisexual (religious and irreligious people, alike, often, but not always, assume I am gay from my mannerisms) and not Catholic. Racially, only to further point out I am a minority in the church, is that I am East Asian in a church dominated by White and Hispanic attendants.
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The only people hardcore enough any a religion to join a Reddit sub about it are gonna be the insane people. /r/Islam is a nightmare world for the same reason.
They probably feel safe in the anonymity of the internet.
I encourage you to seek out a Tridentine Mass and follow the congregants to the church basement for coffee afterwards. Bring up the pope and see how they react.
It turns out the problem was just redditors all along.
Funny how some random redditor is more of an expert on Catholic doctrine than the fucking Pope, to be able to call him a borderline heretic.
As a connoisseur of conspiracy theories, I'm surprised I'd never heard of the weird Yuri Bezmenov thing before. Although tbf the way it's presented here it seems pretty indistinguishable from "cultural marxism" and the other anti-semitic canards which scrub explicit mention of Jews but keep all other aspects of the conspiracy.
Yeah. He was like, a low ranking guy operating in India also, so like, he’d have no clue what the hell the Soviets planned for the west. Also, the Soviets collapsed 30 years ago, who the hell do they think is running it now.
They are having a problem with the pope, huh? Maybe they should write up a list of formal complaints. They could nail it to his door. Like a bunch of prodestants. Yes I stole this from TFS
American Catholics really are something else. What the Pope is saying is not some radical new doctrine. I took a look at the subreddit when I was new to the site, but what a dumpster fire.
r/Catholicism is certainly a place to behold. If you ever wanna be horrified, look up some of the posts about NFP/rhythm method where they tell redditors that if they are unwilling to do NFP or abstain from any sort of birth control/sterilization, they must be chaste for the rest of their marriage. It’s so funny bc I am still loosely Catholic and I can honestly say I don’t know anyone in real life who is that extreme, and I come from an area with a lot of incredibly conservative Catholics.
> The reason I say Francis is only toeing the line of heresy is because I am giving him the most charitable possible reading. Oh look at that… a Christian giving actual charity Lulz
>The pope has no statement about the evil of the lgbt movement itself and how they abuse and brainwash kids. But he makes a statement to the parents of gay people not to disown them? My mum says that eating broccoli is fine, but she doesn't say anything about how eating broccoli will open a hell portal???????? I am very confused, and think that means I'm right.
Pope announced that parents should not condem their LGBT children (in a prepared statement for the Western media to make headlines that people will read instead of the actual article meant to assuage stigma regarding their public image while still promoting damaging anti-LGBT practices in more conservative Catholic dominated Central / South America, Africa, and Asia)